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2003-10-02 19:05:06-04:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 23:02:05 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > >"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message >news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... >> Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize >this >> mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did >> with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a >> good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right >now >> she is a big part of future plotlines. >> > >I liked Lilah much better... > Me too. I seem to be out of the loop on this one but has it been said somewhere that Stephanie Romanov won't be returning to the show as Lilah? The last I saw they said she would be back. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-10-02 19:55:14-04:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - ("Jason E. Vines" <jayvines@gwu.edu>)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. > I love Eve. "Is there anything else you'd like to pass through my lips?" :-)

2003-10-02 22:32:57+00:00 - Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Chris Zabel <alephnull@earthlink.net>)


Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now she is a big part of future plotlines.

2003-10-02 23:02:05+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Buckaroo Banzai <blackhole34@yahoo.com>)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. > I liked Lilah much better...

2003-10-02 23:42:24+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Chris Zabel <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote: > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. Firstly, are you implying that Riley was universally hated? Because he wasn't. I liked him, and I still do. Actually, at the time I would go back and forth concerning Riley. But watching those episodes in repeat, or on DVD, I have come to greatly appreciate the character (and to appreciate Blucas' performance). Secondly, I didn't hate Eve. I didn't like her particularly, but I thought the episode was extremely weak on the whole. I thought the only decent moments were the beginning*, and Fred's Vince Lombardi moment. I think Eve represents the problems inherent in the direction the show has taken. There are much larger problems than the supposed lack of chemistry with Eve's character. As I said in another post, if Eve were the worst aspect of this episode, I would have liked the episode. Eve could work, or not. We'll have to see. Harmony, on the other hand, is a disaster. [*] The beginning, in attempting to go back to Batman!Angel of S1 and immediately use the arrival of the W&H guys to create a dichotomy was a good idea. Unfortunately, like so much of what ME has done over the past few years, the execution sucked. It was way overdone, as far as the W&H team. It's unfortunate, because I liked the idea of what they were trying to do. -- AE Jabbour "Now do you know what we've become?" "Enemies." "Oh no. Much worse: now we're soulmates." Darla and Lindsey, _Darla_

2003-10-02 23:43:39-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (ClimbinRocks <me@nospam.com>)


I like her so far. Chris Zabel wrote: > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. >

2003-10-03 01:07:17+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net>)


I like Eve. She even looks a bit like a grown up version of Evil Red Riding Hood from last season. As far as agents of the Senior Partners go, she's no stranger than getting visions or going and talking to a giant hamburger.

2003-10-03 01:43:01+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Frank Swarbrick <infocat@sprynet.com>)


Chris Zabel wrote: > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. I thought she was OK. Certainly not near as bad as everyone else seems to think... -- Frank Swarbrick infocat@sprynet.com

2003-10-03 01:52:05+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (recook77 <msrobin_200@yahoo.com>)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. > I liked it when Eve suggested to Angel that she really wasn't the young woman she appeared to be. I think she is best used sparingly. After the Connor debacle, I'd rather not have ME shoving another new character down our throats. They'll already be turning this into the Angel and Spike Comedy Hour, after all. . . -- "Surely you can't be serious!" "I am serious, and don't call me Shirley."

2003-10-03 02:14:33+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Darrell Braswell <dpbraswell2000@comcast.net>)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. > At this point I would rather have Eve than Fred. I use to think that Gunn was the problem but now I realize that Fred reallys serves no purpose. At least their making Gunn likable know.

2003-10-03 02:35:29-04:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - ("Me :)" <me@minel.com>)


"shawn" <shawn@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:s1mpnvse94d3ju9f7fek4f76280sq976dh@4ax.com... > AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote: > > >Chris Zabel <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > >> mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > >> with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > >> good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > >> she is a big part of future plotlines. > > > >Firstly, are you implying that Riley was universally hated? Because he > >wasn't. I liked him, and I still do. Actually, at the time I would > >go back and forth concerning Riley. But watching those episodes in > >repeat, or on DVD, I have come to greatly appreciate the character > >(and to appreciate Blucas' performance). > > I didn't like the way Riley was written. A bit too naive for the > leader of a secret government team of specialists. Also someone that > had ben in the Army before joining the Initiative. Now the idea of > Buffy trying to have a normal relationship made sense to me from a > story standpoint. > > >Secondly, I didn't hate Eve. I didn't like her particularly, but I > >thought the episode was extremely weak on the whole. I thought the > >only decent moments were the beginning*, and Fred's Vince Lombardi > >moment. > > I don't hate Eve, but I much prefer that they bring back Lilah. > Stephanie Romanov puts so much more in to her delivery than this > actress. The actress playing Eve might get better in the future as > she gets more experience and develops her character, but Lilah would > be a much better choice. > > > >I think Eve represents the problems inherent in the direction the > >show has taken. There are much larger problems than the supposed > >lack of chemistry with Eve's character. As I said in another post, > >if Eve were the worst aspect of this episode, I would have liked > >the episode. > > It's going to take a number of episodes to figure out if this new > direction is going to work. My guess is it will be about four episodes > before we get a good feel for how the season is going to develop. > Right now I feel luke warm about this season. > > >Eve could work, or not. We'll have to see. Harmony, on the > >other hand, is a disaster. > > I don't have a problem with Harmony, yet. If she wasn't Angel's > secretary then we wouldn't see her that often which would make sense > to me. With Harmony being Angel's secretary then we may see her a lot > and this character probably won't hold up under that kind of scrutiny. > She's the kind of character that works best in small doses. Hopefully, > ME has a plan in mind. > > > > >[*] The beginning, in attempting to go back to Batman!Angel of > > S1 and immediately use the arrival of the W&H guys > > to create a dichotomy was a good idea. Unfortunately, > > like so much of what ME has done over the past few > > years, the execution sucked. It was way overdone, as > > far as the W&H team. It's unfortunate, because I > > liked the idea of what they were trying to do. > I read somewhere that she's signed up for 17 episodes this season . Hope not :)

2003-10-03 08:33:57-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Hank Tiffany <davidt@cet.com>)


On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Chris Zabel wrote: > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. I got no problem with her. Of course I'm not seeeing her as a replacement for Lilah like some folk. Hank -- Hitler, he only had one ball/Goering, had two but they were small Himmler, was very simmlar/But poor old Goebbels had no balls at all

2003-10-03 09:43:06-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (reldevik@usa.net)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>... --Defend her? I'm pretty sure she is evil and someday will end up overtly doing things that I morally disapprove of. I wouldn't be interested in being her defense lawyer. But if you mean "defend her" in the sense of saying she's an interesting character and has a place in the dramatic ensemble, well, sure. The actress who plays Eve, Sarah Thompson, seems just fine to me. I don't understand why so many people are saying her voice and mannerisms are annoying. They seem very normal to me. And that's the facade she's supposed to project--a facade of normality. She's the all-American girl next door. She's Mitzi Gaynor as Nellie Forbush in "South Pacific." On the surface, at least. No, she's not Lilah, but that can't be helped (see thread "The main reason why Lilah won't be back"). That shouldn't be held against Sarah Thompson. I really don't understand all the animosity. Clairel

2003-10-03 10:09:24-04:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. I will. Lilah would have been better, but Eve's a not-bad second choice. As for the episode itself, I liked it, except for the fact that only Angel had a reasonable reaction to letting Harmony work with them, and James Marsters should _not_ get second billing. Arnold Kim

2003-10-03 10:43:42-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (reldevik@usa.net)


"Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message news:<bljvud$phu$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > "Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize > this > > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right > now > > she is a big part of future plotlines. > > I will. Lilah would have been better, but Eve's a not-bad second choice. > > As for the episode itself, I liked it, except for the fact that only Angel > had a reasonable reaction to letting Harmony work with them, and James > Marsters should _not_ get second billing. --Right, he should get _first_ billing. That's what you meant, wasn't it? :) Okay, I was just kidding. The show is called "Angel." But here's an idea: they could put James Marsters at the end, with the words "and JAMES MARSTERS as SPIKE": the same spot Giles had in the credits for the first five seasons of BtVS, and then Willow had for the last two seasons. That'd be neat! Clairel

2003-10-03 12:25:25-04:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:33:57 -0700, Hank Tiffany <davidt@cet.com> wrote: >On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Chris Zabel wrote: > >> Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this >> mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did >> with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a >> good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now >> she is a big part of future plotlines. > >I got no problem with her. Of course I'm not seeeing her as a >replacement for Lilah like some folk. This mystifies me. How can you not see her as a replacement for Lilah when she's stepped in to the exact same role Lilah had in the final episode of last season? She's now the liaison between "the home office" and the Angel gang. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

2003-10-03 12:46:39-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Brian the Snorf <blehr@REMOVETHISgladstone.uoregon.edu>)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. Forget Riley, what about Kennedy... And no, I won't defend Eve. She comes across as a teenage Jennifer Garner playing naughty dressup. She may turn out okay in the end, but right now, every scene with her could have been done 150% better with Lilah. -Snorf

2003-10-03 14:18:04-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Alicat <isalicat@ev1.net>)


On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 02:14:33 GMT, "Darrell Braswell" <dpbraswell2000@comcast.net> wrote: > >"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message >news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... >> Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize >this >> mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did >> with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a >> good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right >now >> she is a big part of future plotlines. >> >At this point I would rather have Eve than Fred. I use to think that Gunn >was the problem but now I realize that Fred reallys serves no purpose. At >least their making Gunn likable know. > I'll agree with this 100%. Fred is a dead loss as a character right now with no insult meant to Amy Acker - its just how she is written. She is actually embarrassing to watch and the stupid "work harder" speech she made was truly ridiculous. adios, alicat "It's only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything." -Tyler Durden

2003-10-03 14:38:46+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (JJ Karhu <kurgan@modeemi.fi>)


On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:32:57 GMT, "Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote: >Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this >mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did >with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a >good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now >she is a big part of future plotlines. Screw those opinions. To me it looked like everyone was pissed off because of no more Lilah, and her replacement was foredoomed. I liked Eve very much, thank you. // JJ

2003-10-03 16:28:13-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Hank Tiffany <davidt@cet.com>)


On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, EGK wrote: > On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:33:57 -0700, Hank Tiffany <davidt@cet.com> wrote: > > >On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Chris Zabel wrote: > > > >> Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > >> mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > >> with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > >> good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > >> she is a big part of future plotlines. > > > >I got no problem with her. Of course I'm not seeeing her as a > >replacement for Lilah like some folk. > > This mystifies me. How can you not see her as a replacement for Lilah when > she's stepped in to the exact same role Lilah had in the final episode of > last season? She's now the liaison between "the home office" and the Angel > gang. But that was never Lilah's role. Rewatch home, Lilah states that she is just there to make them the offer and that she'll be going back to her current hell as soon as that is done. Hank -- Hitler, he only had one ball/Goering, had two but they were small Himmler, was very simmlar/But poor old Goebbels had no balls at all

2003-10-03 19:59:28+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Brian or Sharon Beuchaw <nospam@nobody.org>)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:33:57 -0700, Hank Tiffany <davidt@cet.com> wrote: > >>I got no problem with her. Of course I'm not seeeing her as a >>replacement for Lilah like some folk. > > This mystifies me. How can you not see her as a replacement for Lilah when > she's stepped in to the exact same role Lilah had in the final episode of > last season? She's now the liaison between "the home office" and the Angel > gang. I could be wrong, but isn't Eve the liaison between the senior partners and the LA branch of Wolfram & Hart? I'm pretty sure Lilah was never that high up in the hierarchy (maybe her boss, Holland, was, but I don't think she was). brian -- If you want to reply to this message by mail, you will have to change the reply address to beuchaw@beuchaw.net

2003-10-03 20:09:26+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (tsd@timepilot.gpcc.itd.umich.edu)


In article <blkkf0$to$1@flood.xnet.com>, Brian or Sharon Beuchaw <nospam@nobody.org> wrote: :EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: :> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:33:57 -0700, Hank Tiffany <davidt@cet.com> wrote: :> :>>I got no problem with her. Of course I'm not seeeing her as a :>>replacement for Lilah like some folk. :> :> This mystifies me. How can you not see her as a replacement for Lilah when :> she's stepped in to the exact same role Lilah had in the final episode of :> last season? She's now the liaison between "the home office" and the Angel :> gang. : :I could be wrong, but isn't Eve the liaison between the senior partners :and the LA branch of Wolfram & Hart? I'm pretty sure Lilah was never that :high up in the hierarchy (maybe her boss, Holland, was, but I don't think :she was). That's what I thought. Lillah was in charge of W&H in the end, but Eve said that she was a liaison between the senior partners and the LA branch. Lillah ran W&H, Eve is a direct link between W&H and the senior partners. Eve is a spy for the senior partners - she there to keep an eye on Angel. --

2003-10-03 20:28:15-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (himiko@animail.net)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>... > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. GAH! Really? Only to be expected, I suppose. I like the character of Eve, actually. She's well written to be a liaison in the Lilah tradition without actually being Lilah. But repeated performances like the one we got from Ms. Thompson the so-called "actress" in episode 1 are not to be looked forward to. I suppose we should be grateful she memorized her lines; at least, I didn't notice her actually reading them. But someone should tip her off that lines are supposed to mean something, to portray something, to create an individual character, not just repeated accurately with a few pauses that mean nothing inserted here and there. Oh well, maybe they'll get the message and phase her out or at least limit her screentime. I am not planning to let her ruin the show for me, but I may take to taping it so that I can employ the fast forward through her scenes. I figure this group will let me know if she said anything important and I won't have to listen to that ghastly nasal drone. Technology is a wonderful thing. himiko

2003-10-03 22:08:27+09:30 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Tim Cunnings <timken@internode.on.net.spam>)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. I think what I like least about her is she kinda feels forced. There for more of a cast balancing purpose than storyline purpose. Lets face it, she is there for her T&A qualities, what with the lack of female charaters on the show. Aparently so is Harmony. Sadly they have decided they need two comic relief valves and I they will either under utilise both Lorne and Harmony or else overdo the comedy. Right now I can see them throwing in too much comedy and the drama runs a chance of becoming a circus. Oh dear, wait till Spike gets there... Tim

2003-10-03 22:43:31-05:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Ken Wiggins <fanob5@wi.rr.com>)


"Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message news:1faed770.0310030943.66ec29e4@posting.google.com... > "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message news:<bljvud$phu$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > > "Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message > > news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > > > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize > > this > > > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > > > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > > > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right > > now > > > she is a big part of future plotlines. > > > > I will. Lilah would have been better, but Eve's a not-bad second choice. > > > > As for the episode itself, I liked it, except for the fact that only Angel > > had a reasonable reaction to letting Harmony work with them, and James > > Marsters should _not_ get second billing. > > --Right, he should get _first_ billing. That's what you meant, wasn't > it? :) > > Okay, I was just kidding. The show is called "Angel." But here's an > idea: they could put James Marsters at the end, with the words "and > JAMES MARSTERS as SPIKE": the same spot Giles had in the credits for > the first five seasons of BtVS, and then Willow had for the last two > seasons. That'd be neat! > > Clairel I agree totally! Since he's coming into AtS so late, the guest starring status would be a perfect solution. Head never seemed to mind it, and he was always a central character in BtVS. As for Eve, her smugness was a complete turn-off, or was it a turn-on, I can't decide. I do think however she will become one of those characters that you really love to hate. But Sarah will never be as good as Stephanie at portraying a link to the senior partners. Bring back Lilah!! KW

2003-10-04 06:40:34-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (wallyrosenberg@hotmail.com)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>... > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. She was by far the best thing about the first episode.

2003-10-04 07:25:43+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (quester@infionline.net)


On 2 Oct 2003 23:42:24 GMT, AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote: >[*] The beginning, in attempting to go back to Batman!Angel of > S1 and immediately use the arrival of the W&H guys > to create a dichotomy was a good idea. Unfortunately, > like so much of what ME has done over the past few > years, the execution sucked. It was way overdone, as > far as the W&H team. It's unfortunate, because I > liked the idea of what they were trying to do. Actually, I think that it was DELIBERATELY "way overdone" - to befuddle both Angel and the girl he rescued. Angel was so busy trying to comprehend all the picture-taking and such that he totally missed what they were doing with the girl. They presented her with a bunch of papers which she signed without reading (probably figuring that anyone who had saved her life wouldn't be up to no good). You'll note that she was asked to "initial this one about your immortal soul." I think that the W&H people got her to sign away her soul right under Angel's nose. How's he going to feel if and when he finds out that HE played a major part in an innocent girl losing her soul?

2003-10-04 07:30:27+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (quester@infionline.net)


On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 22:43:31 -0500, "Ken Wiggins" <fanob5@wi.rr.com> wrote: >> Okay, I was just kidding. The show is called "Angel." But here's an >> idea: they could put James Marsters at the end, with the words "and >> JAMES MARSTERS as SPIKE": the same spot Giles had in the credits for >> the first five seasons of BtVS, and then Willow had for the last two >> seasons. That'd be neat! >> Clairel > >I agree totally! Since he's coming into AtS so late, the guest starring >status would be a perfect solution. Head never seemed to mind it, and he was >always a central character in BtVS. "Never seemed to mind it"??? Apparently the two of you don't realize that the end position is the second most desireable spot in TV credits. Right now AD has it. JM's position is only the third most desireable spot.

2003-10-04 16:21:37+10:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Kas <nykara>)


I think i need to see her for more then one or two episodes to be able to pass any sort of judgement..... dont think any character has ever really grown on me from day one that comes with time.. "Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. >

2003-10-04 16:23:41+10:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Kas <nykara>)


Maybe they are planing to kill her off eventually and are making it so that it'll have a bit of an impact on some people but not so much as to having everyone hating them totaly for doing it.. "Alicat" <isalicat@ev1.net> wrote in message news:lpprnvck5n92n57k7qevbq9kbc27j62i9s@4ax.com... > On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 02:14:33 GMT, "Darrell Braswell" > <dpbraswell2000@comcast.net> wrote: > > > > >"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message > >news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > >> Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize > >this > >> mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > >> with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > >> good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right > >now > >> she is a big part of future plotlines. > >> > >At this point I would rather have Eve than Fred. I use to think that Gunn > >was the problem but now I realize that Fred reallys serves no purpose. At > >least their making Gunn likable know. > > > I'll agree with this 100%. Fred is a dead loss as a character right > now with no insult meant to Amy Acker - its just how she is written. > She is actually embarrassing to watch and the stupid "work harder" > speech she made was truly ridiculous. > > adios, > alicat > > > "It's only after you've lost everything that you're free to do > anything." -Tyler Durden

2003-10-04 20:24:39+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (snds15@cs.com)


>Subject: Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend >her? >From: EGK me@privacy.net >Date: 10/3/2003 12:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time >Message-id: <7c8rnvsccvm0t7oof2k1n058mqtcdt7d6v@4ax.com> > >On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:33:57 -0700, Hank Tiffany <davidt@cet.com> wrote: > >> >>I got no problem with her. Of course I'm not seeeing her as a >>replacement for Lilah like some folk. > >This mystifies me. How can you not see her as a replacement for Lilah when >she's stepped in to the exact same role Lilah had in the final episode of >last season? She's now the liaison between "the home office" and the Angel >gang. > > It is slightly different; Lilah was a member of W&H but never the liaison with the senior partners. Eve doesn't really seem to be a regular employee of the firm, she just drifts in and out to interact with Angel. Sandra

2003-10-04 21:10:55-04:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Rocinante <matrixoutsider@hotmail.com>)


On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:32:57 GMT, Chris Zabel wrote: > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. There is a difference between an actress trying to act evil and sexy (Eve), and an actress who has her audience convinced that she IS evil and sexy (Lilah). -- "If it takes a lot of words to say what you have in mind, give it more thought." --Dennis Roch 10/4/2003 9:07:49 PM

2003-10-05 00:55:19-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (p_roberts@eudoramail.com)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>... > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. Nah. My bet is ME and Joss will just tell us that we don't get "how wonderful" Eve really is and we should thank our lucky star for getting her. After all, isn't that what they said about Kennedy?

2003-10-05 01:16:44-04:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her' - (ABRAMS1117@webtv.net)


I like Eve, but not as much as I hated Adam.. oooh stop groaning, I dont hate Lorne anymore. http://www.TruCalling.com

2003-10-05 09:40:48+02:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Meprolite <drongo@mighty.NOSPAMco.za>)


> Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty > universal. Will ME realize this mistake or > keep trying to force her on us for over a > season like they did with Riley For me, it's a bit premature to hate Eve or equate her with the likes of Riley or Connor. I didn't find her the least bit offensive and, aside from her involvement in the lame Lawyer Gunn exposition, her screen time was well spent. It's only been two episodes.

2003-10-06 13:58:06-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (reldevik@usa.net)


quester@infionline.net (Harold Groot) wrote in message news:<3f7e7670.14215578@news.west.earthlink.net>... > On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 22:43:31 -0500, "Ken Wiggins" <fanob5@wi.rr.com> > wrote: > > >> Okay, I was just kidding. The show is called "Angel." But here's an > >> idea: they could put James Marsters at the end, with the words "and > >> JAMES MARSTERS as SPIKE": the same spot Giles had in the credits for > >> the first five seasons of BtVS, and then Willow had for the last two > >> seasons. That'd be neat! > >> Clairel > > > >I agree totally! Since he's coming into AtS so late, the guest starring > >status would be a perfect solution. Head never seemed to mind it, and he was > >always a central character in BtVS. > > "Never seemed to mind it"??? Apparently the two of you don't realize > that the end position is the second most desireable spot in TV > credits. Right now AD has it. JM's position is only the third most > desireable spot. --The two of us? Of course *I* realize it. I made that suggestion because I would like Spike's importance to get maximum acknowledgement. Ideally I would like him to get the kind of acknowledgement that first Giles and then Willow got on BtVS. But I also know that Alexis Denisof has put in a lot of years and hard work, and the spot of honor at the end of the credits isn't going to be taken away from him unless he, like Anthony Steward Head, decides to leave or go part time. So, taking that into consideration, I'd say that for Spike to get the second spot is the most that can really be expected. It's fair, and I'm happy with it. In season 5 of BtVS when Emma Caulfield and Michelle Trachtenberg were added to the regular cast, they got billing before James Marsters, and I always thought that was unfair. He was next-to-the-last in the credits, and he stayed that way as long as BtVS lasted. Next-to-the-last is the spot of dishonor, and Marsters deserved better after his long tenure in the Buffyverse and on BtVS. It's only now that he's even starting to get a proper amount of acknowledgement. Clairel

2003-10-06 14:01:17-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (reldevik@usa.net)


"Ken Wiggins" <fanob5@wi.rr.com> wrote in message news:<Bjrfb.7459$%C5.348@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>... > "Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message > news:1faed770.0310030943.66ec29e4@posting.google.com... > > "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message > news:<bljvud$phu$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > > > "Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message > > > news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > > > > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize > this > > > > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they > did > > > > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley > wasn't a > > > > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that > right > now > > > > she is a big part of future plotlines. > > > > > > I will. Lilah would have been better, but Eve's a not-bad second > choice. > > > > > > As for the episode itself, I liked it, except for the fact that only > Angel > > > had a reasonable reaction to letting Harmony work with them, and James > > > Marsters should _not_ get second billing. > > > > --Right, he should get _first_ billing. That's what you meant, wasn't > > it? :) > > > > Okay, I was just kidding. The show is called "Angel." But here's an > > idea: they could put James Marsters at the end, with the words "and > > JAMES MARSTERS as SPIKE": the same spot Giles had in the credits for > > the first five seasons of BtVS, and then Willow had for the last two > > seasons. That'd be neat! > > > > Clairel > > I agree totally! Since he's coming into AtS so late, the guest starring > status would be a perfect solution. Head never seemed to mind it, and he was > always a central character in BtVS. --Er, no, I'm not talking about the guest-star credit that Anthony Stewart Head got in the last two seasons of BtVS when he--by his own desire--appeared in only a few episodes. If you read what I said properly, you'd realize that I was talking about ASH's credit positioning in the first five seasons of BtVS, the same credit positioning that Willow subsequently got when ASH went to guest-star status. I'm talking about the last of the regular cast credits, the one where you see not only the actor's name but also the words "as XXXXX." That's a very sweet spot to have, and a real honor. Clairel

2003-10-07 07:14:54+10:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (alphakitten <alphakittenx@netscape.net>)


Clairel wrote: > "Ken Wiggins" <fanob5@wi.rr.com> wrote in message news:<Bjrfb.7459$%C5.348@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>... > >>"Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message >>news:1faed770.0310030943.66ec29e4@posting.google.com... >> >>>"Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message >> >> news:<bljvud$phu$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... >> >>>>"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message >>>>news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... >>>> >>>>>Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize >>>> >> this >> >>>>>mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they >>>> >> did >> >>>>>with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley >>>> >> wasn't a >> >>>>>good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that >>>> >> right >> now >> >>>>>she is a big part of future plotlines. >>>> >>>>I will. Lilah would have been better, but Eve's a not-bad second >>> >> choice. >> >>>>As for the episode itself, I liked it, except for the fact that only >>> >> Angel >> >>>>had a reasonable reaction to letting Harmony work with them, and James >>>>Marsters should _not_ get second billing. >>> >>>--Right, he should get _first_ billing. That's what you meant, wasn't >>>it? :) >>> >>>Okay, I was just kidding. The show is called "Angel." But here's an >>>idea: they could put James Marsters at the end, with the words "and >>>JAMES MARSTERS as SPIKE": the same spot Giles had in the credits for >>>the first five seasons of BtVS, and then Willow had for the last two >>>seasons. That'd be neat! >>> >>>Clairel >> >>I agree totally! Since he's coming into AtS so late, the guest starring >>status would be a perfect solution. Head never seemed to mind it, and he was >>always a central character in BtVS. > > > --Er, no, I'm not talking about the guest-star credit that Anthony > Stewart Head got in the last two seasons of BtVS when he--by his own > desire--appeared in only a few episodes. If you read what I said > properly, you'd realize that I was talking about ASH's credit > positioning in the first five seasons of BtVS, the same credit > positioning that Willow subsequently got when ASH went to guest-star > status. I'm talking about the last of the regular cast credits, the > one where you see not only the actor's name but also the words "as > XXXXX." That's a very sweet spot to have, and a real honor. > > Clairel And Alexis has earned it on this show. JM has third sweetest billing in the credits and that's as it should be. ~Angel

2003-10-07 16:06:54-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (reldevik@usa.net)


alphakitten <alphakittenx@netscape.net> wrote in message news:<3F81DB4E.5020003@netscape.net>... > Clairel wrote: > > "Ken Wiggins" <fanob5@wi.rr.com> wrote in message news:<Bjrfb.7459$%C5.348@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>... > > > >>"Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message > >>news:1faed770.0310030943.66ec29e4@posting.google.com... > >> > >>>"Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message > >> > >> news:<bljvud$phu$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > >> > >>>>"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message > >>>>news:tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > >>>> > >>>>>Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize > >>>> > >> this > >> > >>>>>mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they > >>>> > >> did > >> > >>>>>with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley > >>>> > >> wasn't a > >> > >>>>>good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that > >>>> > >> right > >> now > >> > >>>>>she is a big part of future plotlines. > >>>> > >>>>I will. Lilah would have been better, but Eve's a not-bad second > >>> > >> choice. > >> > >>>>As for the episode itself, I liked it, except for the fact that only > >>> > >> Angel > >> > >>>>had a reasonable reaction to letting Harmony work with them, and James > >>>>Marsters should _not_ get second billing. > >>> > >>>--Right, he should get _first_ billing. That's what you meant, wasn't > >>>it? :) > >>> > >>>Okay, I was just kidding. The show is called "Angel." But here's an > >>>idea: they could put James Marsters at the end, with the words "and > >>>JAMES MARSTERS as SPIKE": the same spot Giles had in the credits for > >>>the first five seasons of BtVS, and then Willow had for the last two > >>>seasons. That'd be neat! > >>> > >>>Clairel > >> > >>I agree totally! Since he's coming into AtS so late, the guest starring > >>status would be a perfect solution. Head never seemed to mind it, and he was > >>always a central character in BtVS. > > > > > > --Er, no, I'm not talking about the guest-star credit that Anthony > > Stewart Head got in the last two seasons of BtVS when he--by his own > > desire--appeared in only a few episodes. If you read what I said > > properly, you'd realize that I was talking about ASH's credit > > positioning in the first five seasons of BtVS, the same credit > > positioning that Willow subsequently got when ASH went to guest-star > > status. I'm talking about the last of the regular cast credits, the > > one where you see not only the actor's name but also the words "as > > XXXXX." That's a very sweet spot to have, and a real honor. > > > > Clairel > > > > And Alexis has earned it on this show. JM has third sweetest billing in > the credits and that's as it should be. --Ah, I said exactly that elsewhere on this thread. Allow me to quote myself: "I made that suggestion because I would like Spike's importance to get maximum acknowledgement. Ideally I would like him to get the kind of acknowledgement that first Giles and then Willow got on BtVS. But I also know that Alexis Denisof has put in a lot of years and hard work, and the spot of honor at the end of the credits isn't going to be taken away from him unless he, like Anthony Steward Head, decides to leave or go part time. So, taking that into consideration, I'd say that for Spike to get the second spot [I meant the spot in the credits right after DB, or, to use your terminology, the third most important spot] is the most that can really be expected. It's fair, and I'm happy with it." And in the next paragraph I added: "In season 5 of BtVS when Emma Caulfield and Michelle Trachtenberg were added to the regular cast, they got billing before James Marsters, and I always thought that was unfair. He was next-to-the-last in the credits, and he stayed that way as long as BtVS lasted. Next-to-the-last is the spot of dishonor, and Marsters deserved better after his long tenure in the Buffyverse and on BtVS. It's only now that he's even starting to get a proper amount of acknowledgement." And that's a valid point, isn't it? Clairel

2003-10-07 21:06:09+00:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (Chris Zabel <alephnull@earthlink.net>)


"shawn" <shawn@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:tpq3ovo7j5rhcotp9u6qpobpshf8cjjaqe@4ax.com... > I agree that he has earned that spot. Actually, the writers really > earned that spot for changing the character of Wesley into something > amazing considering how he started out. Wesley has definitely grown > much more than Spike during the course of both shows. Also I believe > that Alexis does a much better job with what he's being given. I think > it's great that two equally talented actors are getting together > (Alexis and Alyson, not Alexis and James or James and David.) LOL Wes has grown more than Spike??! I like the current incarnation of Wes alot, but Spike started out as an unrepentant villain and ended up as a good guy and totally different individual than when he began. Wes has changed, but mostly just in attitude...

2003-10-08 16:21:45-07:00 - Re: Is it unaminous? Does anyone here like Eve or want to defend her? - (igs622001@yahoo.com)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<tI1fb.9273$3S.4409@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>... > Opinion in the George's poll seemed pretty universal. Will ME realize this > mistake or keep trying to force her on us for over a season like they did > with Riley(though I admit it took longer to figure out that Riley wasn't a > good fit for the show than his first episode). It's apparent that right now > she is a big part of future plotlines. FWIW, I liked the Eve character well enough and I look forward to seeing more of her. Of course, I also liked the Riley character on BtVS, so there it is.