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2004-02-06 01:29:07+00:00 - Was Spike losing his arms meant as foreshadowing? - (Daniel Solomon <dansolo@comcast.net>)


When Spike got his arms cut off, it seemed a little gratuitous, especially since they were able to reset everything back. But in this episode, Angel is clued in that it is Lindsey specifically because of Spikes revelation about his guide mentioning having lost a hand. It seems like the whole deal with Spike was merely a setup in order to have a plot device that would allow Angel to figure out that Lindsey was the one responsible. I really think that it was very poor writing. I also think that the conclusion of the Lindsey story was incredibly lame. -- Daniel Solomon

2004-02-06 02:36:13-06:00 - Re: Was Spike losing his arms meant as foreshadowing? - (Ken from Chicago <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"Daniel Solomon" <dansolo@comcast.net> wrote in message news:Xns9486C6373F9D6dansolocomcastnet@204.127.204.17... > When Spike got his arms cut off, it seemed a little gratuitous, especially > since they were able to reset everything back. But in this episode, Angel > is clued in that it is Lindsey specifically because of Spikes revelation > about his guide mentioning having lost a hand. It seems like the whole > deal with Spike was merely a setup in order to have a plot device that > would allow Angel to figure out that Lindsey was the one responsible. I > really think that it was very poor writing. I also think that the > conclusion of the Lindsey story was incredibly lame. > > -- > Daniel Solomon How else would Angel and crew identify Lindsay? How else could they? -- Ken from Chicago

2004-02-06 12:07:24-04:00 - Re: Was Spike losing his arms meant as foreshadowing? - (DJensen <me@nospamthanks.net>)


Ken from Chicago wrote in message ... >"Daniel Solomon" <dansolo@comcast.net> wrote in message >news:Xns9486C6373F9D6dansolocomcastnet@204.127.204.17... >> When Spike got his arms cut off, it seemed a little gratuitous, especially >> since they were able to reset everything back. But in this episode, Angel >> is clued in that it is Lindsey specifically because of Spikes revelation >> about his guide mentioning having lost a hand. It seems like the whole >> deal with Spike was merely a setup in order to have a plot device that >> would allow Angel to figure out that Lindsey was the one responsible. I >> really think that it was very poor writing. I also think that the >> conclusion of the Lindsey story was incredibly lame. > >How else would Angel and crew identify Lindsay? How else could they? I don't see why they had to identify him before the fight or for the spell to work against him, once they knew where he was going. --- DJensen

2004-02-08 23:18:21-05:00 - Re: Was Spike losing his arms meant as foreshadowing? - (Kathrine <thisisfake@nowhere.com>)


How do you know that was the conclusion? ~Kathy -- "I was singing 'shake your bon-bon' in the shower, knowing my bon-bon wasn't the only thing shaking!" "Daniel Solomon" <dansolo@comcast.net> wrote in message news:Xns9486C6373F9D6dansolocomcastnet@204.127.204.17... > When Spike got his arms cut off, it seemed a little gratuitous, especially > since they were able to reset everything back. But in this episode, Angel > is clued in that it is Lindsey specifically because of Spikes revelation > about his guide mentioning having lost a hand. It seems like the whole > deal with Spike was merely a setup in order to have a plot device that > would allow Angel to figure out that Lindsey was the one responsible. I > really think that it was very poor writing. I also think that the > conclusion of the Lindsey story was incredibly lame. > > -- > Daniel Solomon

2004-02-10 07:27:52+00:00 - Re: Was Spike losing his arms meant as foreshadowing? - (Aaron Pynn <acpynn@nf.sympatico.ca>)


. It seems like the whole > deal with Spike was merely a setup in order to have a plot device that > would allow Angel to figure out that Lindsey was the one responsible. Yes and the whole season has been incredibly poorly written to be precise it actually makes me long for the Connor days..(never thought I'd say that) James Marsters is getting an incredibly bad wrap over this, he keeps getting trashed but to be honest I really think there would be no show to bitch about if he hadn;t come on board. If used right Spike can be an incredible asset to the show..They need it now that Carpenter is forever lost to the show...

2004-02-12 00:53:09+00:00 - Re: Was Spike losing his arms meant as foreshadowing? - (Jon Mason <jon@fake.com>)


"Aaron Pynn" <acpynn@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:YJ%Vb.91538$IF6.2468909@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca... > . It seems like the whole > > deal with Spike was merely a setup in order to have a plot device that > > would allow Angel to figure out that Lindsey was the one responsible. > > Yes and the whole season has been incredibly poorly written to be precise it > actually makes me long for the Connor days..(never thought I'd say that) > > James Marsters is getting an incredibly bad wrap over this, he keeps getting > trashed but to be honest I really think there would be no show to bitch > about if he hadn;t come on board. If used right Spike can be an incredible > asset to the show..They need it now that Carpenter is forever lost to the > show... Cast should be trimmed to: Angel, obviously. Spike, as the other half of a "buddy cop" relationship with Angel. Wes to do the research. A new female, maybe one of the new slayers. Lorne to become an occasional character again, not one of the principals. Gunn dropped. Fred dropped. (Sidenote: Its a shame Kate can't come back, one of Angel's best story arcs...sadly never seen through to a satisfactory conclusion.)

2004-02-12 01:18:08-08:00 - Re: Was Spike losing his arms meant as foreshadowing? - (tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us)


"Jon Mason" <jon@fake.com> wrote in message news:<78AWb.10367$q%6.3370091@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>... > "Aaron Pynn" <acpynn@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:YJ%Vb.91538$IF6.2468909@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca... > > . It seems like the whole > > > deal with Spike was merely a setup in order to have a plot device that > > > would allow Angel to figure out that Lindsey was the one responsible. > > > > Yes and the whole season has been incredibly poorly written to be precise > it > > actually makes me long for the Connor days..(never thought I'd say that) > > > > James Marsters is getting an incredibly bad wrap over this, he keeps > getting > > trashed but to be honest I really think there would be no show to bitch > > about if he hadn;t come on board. If used right Spike can be an incredible > > asset to the show..They need it now that Carpenter is forever lost to the > > show... > > Cast should be trimmed to: > Angel, obviously. > Spike, as the other half of a "buddy cop" relationship with Angel. > Wes to do the research. > A new female, maybe one of the new slayers. > Lorne to become an occasional character again, not one of the principals. > Gunn dropped. > Fred dropped. Why drop Gunn and Fred? What about Harmony?

2004-02-12 05:16:51-08:00 - Re: Was Spike losing his arms meant as foreshadowing? - (tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us)


"Jon Mason" <jon@fake.com> wrote in message news:<78AWb.10367$q%6.3370091@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>... > "Aaron Pynn" <acpynn@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:YJ%Vb.91538$IF6.2468909@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca... > > . It seems like the whole > > > deal with Spike was merely a setup in order to have a plot device that > > > would allow Angel to figure out that Lindsey was the one responsible. > > > > Yes and the whole season has been incredibly poorly written to be precise > it > > actually makes me long for the Connor days..(never thought I'd say that) > > > > James Marsters is getting an incredibly bad wrap over this, he keeps > getting > > trashed but to be honest I really think there would be no show to bitch > > about if he hadn;t come on board. If used right Spike can be an incredible > > asset to the show..They need it now that Carpenter is forever lost to the > > show... > > Cast should be trimmed to: > Angel, obviously. > Spike, as the other half of a "buddy cop" relationship with Angel. > Wes to do the research. > A new female, maybe one of the new slayers. > Lorne to become an occasional character again, not one of the principals. > Gunn dropped. > Fred dropped. Why drop Gunn and Fred? What about Harmony?

2004-02-12 11:51:44-08:00 - Re: Was Spike losing his arms meant as foreshadowing? - (blacksaint90@aol.com)


"Jon Mason" <jon@fake.com> wrote in message news:<78AWb.10367$q%6.3370091@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>... > "Aaron Pynn" <acpynn@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote in message > news:YJ%Vb.91538$IF6.2468909@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca... > > . It seems like the whole > > > deal with Spike was merely a setup in order to have a plot device that > > > would allow Angel to figure out that Lindsey was the one responsible. > > > > Yes and the whole season has been incredibly poorly written to be precise > it > > actually makes me long for the Connor days..(never thought I'd say that) > > > > James Marsters is getting an incredibly bad wrap over this, he keeps > getting > > trashed but to be honest I really think there would be no show to bitch > > about if he hadn;t come on board. If used right Spike can be an incredible > > asset to the show..They need it now that Carpenter is forever lost to the > > show... > > Cast should be trimmed to: > Angel, obviously. > Spike, as the other half of a "buddy cop" relationship with Angel. > Wes to do the research. > A new female, maybe one of the new slayers. > Lorne to become an occasional character again, not one of the principals. > Gunn dropped. > Fred dropped. > > (Sidenote: Its a shame Kate can't come back, one of Angel's best story > arcs...sadly never seen through to a satisfactory conclusion.) I used to think Spike was superfluous but I really like him on Angel. He's far better here than he was on Buffy for the past few seasons. I agree with you on Wes. Ironically, Lorne serves less a purpose *now* than he did during Season Two. I wish Karitas had never blown up and The Host was still just The Host (or he had just died during the Pylea Arc). I'm fine with Fred as the female lead, mostly because I like that she joined the cast sort of in Dr. Who companion style. Gunn as the sharp lawyer is a great change (using him as the "muscle" was ridiculous when Angel was ten times stronger than he was) and W&H is a law firm, after all. As for Kate, I disagree. I think "Epiphany" was a nice ending for her.

2004-02-12 12:23:46-05:00 - Re: Was Spike losing his arms meant as foreshadowing? - (Randy Money <rbmoney@spamblocklibrary.syr.edu>)


Daniel Solomon wrote: > When Spike got his arms cut off, it seemed a little gratuitous, especially > since they were able to reset everything back. Maybe it was a budget consideration: for this ep, instead of eliminating the actors' parts, they eliminated parts of the actors, and that way didn't have to pay full price. And now, since I have nothing useful to say about the good points in your post, I'll shut up and leave. Randy M.

2004-02-13 12:42:40+00:00 - Re: Was Spike losing his arms meant as foreshadowing? - (Jon Mason <jon@fake.com>)


"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message news:a69c46fe.0402120118.40cedb3f@posting.google.com... > "Jon Mason" <jon@fake.com> wrote in message news:<78AWb.10367$q%6.3370091@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>... > > Cast should be trimmed to: > > Angel, obviously. > > Spike, as the other half of a "buddy cop" relationship with Angel. > > Wes to do the research. > > A new female, maybe one of the new slayers. > > Lorne to become an occasional character again, not one of the principals. > > Gunn dropped. > > Fred dropped. > > Why drop Gunn and Fred? What about Harmony? Gunn's character was cool when he was introduced, the street kid trained to fight vampires. But he's been struggling for a point ever since...he's become Angel's Xander... Sometimes fun to have around, but no point to him being there... They tried him being the muscle of the team, which is kind of dumb when they have a stronger than human vampire as their leader who could snap Gunn in half in a second. Now they have the lawyer thing...maybe its going somewhere, but for now it just seems like a desperate ploy for him to have something useful to do. Fred seemed to be a total case of "we need another woman on the show." Wesley is the brains of the time, so why does a team of supernatural detectives/champions need a physicist? Shes the kind of "victim" character who in a normal episode would have been rescued from Pylea, thanked the team and would have never been heard from again...pointless, and irritating. Harmony I can take or leave, but I think she just undermines the evilness of "regular" vampires, who have already been relegated from first season Buffy, where they were evil killing machines, over the years they have become easily defeated wusses, that Dawn/Xander/Anya/Cordy can all take out when they want. Were the only truly evil and strong vampires Angel/Spike/Dru/Darla, all other vampires have become disposable cannon fodder... Add to that, now some vampires are able to control themselves enough to get jobs at law firms? WTF?