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2003-12-14 11:10:01+00:00 - OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Buckaroo Banzai <blackhole34@yahoo.com>)


YEEE-HAAAA!!! We captured Saddam Hussein who was hiding in a cellar in Tikrit!

2003-12-14 11:38:03-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (NickKnight <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com>)


On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:10:01 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: >YEEE-HAAAA!!! We captured Saddam Hussein who was hiding in a cellar in >Tikrit! > Of course OBL is still at large. BTW, since when can they do DNA testing so fast? They captured him last night, and they already have DNA results? I thought DNA required a lead time of like six weeks. -------------------------------------------- "It took us 15 years to McGyver this thing." -------------------------Carter on Stargate To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

2003-12-14 14:26:05-08:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Mark Jones <sinanju@pacifier.com>)


EGK <me@privacy.net>, on or about Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:52:50 -0500, did you or did you not state: >On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:57:58 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> >wrote: >Let's not talk about the mass graves of iraqis uncovered, the women being >raped in front of their husbands, the people fed to plastic crunching >machines and other methods of torture. Let's only remember that WMD were a >bit lie even though most all Democrats during the Clinton administration >were saying the same thing. And let's not talk about the fact that Germany and France and all the other Axis of Weasels nations _also_ believed in the WMDs--they just didn't want to _act_ on the belief. >Let's only remember that Bush is a moron, he stole the election and that the >sweet old man dragged from that hole in the ground was no threat to world >peace. Besides, we haven't got bin Laden yet. (rolling eyes) Nor are we likely to. I think Osama is a thin paste spread over the interior of some cave in Afghanistan. But, yeah. Bush is eeeeeeeeevil, therefore anything he does is wrong by definition. -- [AGB] SINANJU "So what happened then, grandpa?" "Well, I got KILLED, of course!"

2003-12-14 14:27:52-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (NickKnight <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com>)


On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that OBL was behind it not SH. -------------------------------------------- "It took us 15 years to McGyver this thing." -------------------------Carter on Stargate To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

2003-12-14 15:52:50-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:57:58 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > >"NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message >news:4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com... >> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> >> wrote: >> >> >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. >> For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that >> OBL was behind it not SH. > >And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam >thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being held >accountable. > Let's not talk about the mass graves of iraqis uncovered, the women being raped in front of their husbands, the people fed to plastic crunching machines and other methods of torture. Let's only remember that WMD were a bit lie even though most all Democrats during the Clinton administration were saying the same thing. Let's only remember that Bush is a moron, he stole the election and that the sweet old man dragged from that hole in the ground was no threat to world peace. Besides, we haven't got bin Laden yet. (rolling eyes) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

2003-12-14 17:02:23-08:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (AthlonRob <junkmail@axpr.net>)


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:38:03 -0500, NickKnight <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote: > BTW, since when can they do DNA testing so fast? They captured him > last night, and they already have DNA results? I thought DNA required > a lead time of like six weeks. The process, from what I understand, can take a few hours. The lead time of six weeks most folks experience is because labs are backed up and few and far between. I don't think they needed to wait a whole long time to get that sample through to actually be processed. :-) -- Rob | If not safe, Email and Jabber: | one can never be free. athlonrob at axpr dot net | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/3QgThm6KEoOOAe0RAtoAAJ9ih2Jk2NtNIQV7jq/rYlyjNgX8sQCgrEje kcPEzblIwaxP2IHBN+Bk244= =IuL5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2003-12-14 17:21:13+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Buckaroo Banzai <blackhole34@yahoo.com>)


"NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:pb4ptv4v5lar2pm113rnfgel8o5higdhrq@4ax.com... > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:10:01 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" > <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >YEEE-HAAAA!!! We captured Saddam Hussein who was hiding in a cellar in > >Tikrit! > > > Of course OBL is still at large. Really??? Wow, I didn't know that! Thanks so much for that little tidbit!

2003-12-14 17:57:50+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <d_0Db.1894$mC1.783@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > "NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:pb4ptv4v5lar2pm113rnfgel8o5higdhrq@4ax.com... > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:10:01 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" > > <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > >YEEE-HAAAA!!! We captured Saddam Hussein who was hiding in a cellar in > > >Tikrit! > > > > > Of course OBL is still at large. > > Really??? Wow, I didn't know that! Thanks so much for that little > tidbit! For some people the glass is *always* half empty.

2003-12-14 18:03:29+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Buck Rodgers <please.send.spam@msn.com>)


Actually, he was in a hole On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:10:01 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: >YEEE-HAAAA!!! We captured Saddam Hussein who was hiding in a cellar in >Tikrit! >

2003-12-14 18:09:14-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (The Babaloughesian <me@privacy.net>)


"EGK" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:fqiptv8lgui93nuq6r8tc3d3tep5rib0nn@4ax.com... > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:57:58 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > >"NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >news:4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com... > >> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. > >> For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that > >> OBL was behind it not SH. > > > >And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam > >thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being held > >accountable. > > > > Let's not talk about the mass graves of iraqis uncovered, the women being > raped in front of their husbands, the people fed to plastic crunching > machines and other methods of torture. Let's only remember that WMD were a > bit lie even though most all Democrats during the Clinton administration > were saying the same thing. > > Let's only remember that Bush is a moron, he stole the election and that the > sweet old man dragged from that hole in the ground was no threat to world > peace. Besides, we haven't got bin Laden yet. (rolling eyes) Can't we agree Bush is a moron who stole the election and that it's pretty cool that they captured Saddam?

2003-12-14 18:42:26-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Ron Purvis <ronpurvis@charter.net>)


On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:10:01 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: >BTW, since when can they do DNA testing so fast? They captured him=20 >last night, and they already have DNA results? I thought DNA required >a lead time of like six weeks. =20 They do improve things. Technology is in a geometric progression. Give = them another 10 years and they might be able just to scan you with a = tricorder for ID. ;-)<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><BR>On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:10:01 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai"<BR>&lt;<A=20 href=3D"mailto:blackhole34@yahoo.com">blackhole34@yahoo.com</A>&gt;=20 wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;BTW, since when can they do DNA testing so fast?&nbsp; = They=20 captured him <BR>&gt;last night, and they already have DNA = results?&nbsp; I=20 thought DNA required<BR>&gt;a lead time of like six weeks.&nbsp; = <BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>They do improve things. Technology is = in a=20 geometric progression. Give them another 10 years and they might be able = just to=20 scan you with a tricorder for ID.&nbsp;;-)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

2003-12-14 19:57:58+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Buckaroo Banzai <blackhole34@yahoo.com>)


"NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com... > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > wrote: > > >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. > For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that > OBL was behind it not SH. And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being held accountable.

2003-12-14 20:47:25+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (kelvin bonning <taff@kbonning.invalid>)


YEEE-HAAAA!!! We captured Saddam Hussein who was hiding in a cellar in > >Tikrit! And Apparently he HATED Tikrit. Whenever he passed the area he would turn his face away. Fucking Brilliant!! Torture the Bastard. Play Irish folk music to him twenty-four hours a day. "Buck Rodgers" <please.send.spam@msn.com> wrote in message news:td9ptv8vqnnkmvqv6pde45gjt1mq6rnv9g@4ax.com... > Actually, he was in a hole > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:10:01 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" > <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >> > >

2003-12-14 20:56:00+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com>, NickKnight <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > wrote: > > >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. > For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that > OBL was behind it not SH. Where in any of this was 9/11 even mentioned by anyone but you?

2003-12-14 21:27:28+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Buckaroo Banzai <blackhole34@yahoo.com>)


"kelvin bonning" <taff@kbonning.invalid> wrote in message news:briib7$mmr$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk... > YEEE-HAAAA!!! We captured Saddam Hussein who was hiding in a cellar in > > >Tikrit! > And Apparently he HATED Tikrit. Whenever he passed the area he would turn > his face away. Fucking Brilliant!! > Torture the Bastard. Play Irish folk music to him twenty-four hours a day. No! Play "America The Beautiful" 24 hours a day! > > "Buck Rodgers" <please.send.spam@msn.com> wrote in message > news:td9ptv8vqnnkmvqv6pde45gjt1mq6rnv9g@4ax.com... > > Actually, he was in a hole > > > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:10:01 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" > > <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >

2003-12-14 21:36:20-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (The Babaloughesian <me@privacy.net>)


"Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:j87Db.3101470$Id.484451@news.easynews.com... > > "The Babaloughesian" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message > news:briqis$3rm2t$1@ID-177202.news.uni-berlin.de... > > > > "EGK" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message > > news:fqiptv8lgui93nuq6r8tc3d3tep5rib0nn@4ax.com... > > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:57:58 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" > > <blackhole34@yahoo.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >"NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > >news:4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com... > > > >> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. > > > >> For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that > > > >> OBL was behind it not SH. > > > > > > > >And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam > > > >thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being > held > > > >accountable. > > > > > > > > > > Let's not talk about the mass graves of iraqis uncovered, the women > being > > > raped in front of their husbands, the people fed to plastic crunching > > > machines and other methods of torture. Let's only remember that WMD > were > > a > > > bit lie even though most all Democrats during the Clinton administration > > > were saying the same thing. > > > > > > Let's only remember that Bush is a moron, he stole the election and that > > the > > > sweet old man dragged from that hole in the ground was no threat to > world > > > peace. Besides, we haven't got bin Laden yet. (rolling eyes) > > > > Can't we agree Bush is a moron who stole the election and that it's pretty > > cool that they captured Saddam? > > FOAD LOL... never let it be said though that I'm not willing to compromise.

2003-12-14 23:12:24+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Buckaroo Banzai <blackhole34@yahoo.com>)


"The Babaloughesian" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:briqis$3rm2t$1@ID-177202.news.uni-berlin.de... > > "EGK" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message > news:fqiptv8lgui93nuq6r8tc3d3tep5rib0nn@4ax.com... > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:57:58 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" > <blackhole34@yahoo.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >"NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com... > > >> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. > > >> For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that > > >> OBL was behind it not SH. > > > > > >And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam > > >thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being held > > >accountable. > > > > > > > Let's not talk about the mass graves of iraqis uncovered, the women being > > raped in front of their husbands, the people fed to plastic crunching > > machines and other methods of torture. Let's only remember that WMD were > a > > bit lie even though most all Democrats during the Clinton administration > > were saying the same thing. > > > > Let's only remember that Bush is a moron, he stole the election and that > the > > sweet old man dragged from that hole in the ground was no threat to world > > peace. Besides, we haven't got bin Laden yet. (rolling eyes) > > Can't we agree Bush is a moron who stole the election and that it's pretty > cool that they captured Saddam? No, we can't.

2003-12-15 00:04:53-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <BTR1702-059A5D.14572214122003@news.west.earthlink.net>, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > In article <4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com>, NickKnight > <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > > wrote: > > > > >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. > > > For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that > > OBL was behind it not SH. > > Where in any of this was 9/11 even mentioned by anyone but you? Some of us just think that the people behind 9/11 are a bigger threat than SH and that we should not have been wasting our time invading Iraq while our real enemy is still on the loose. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snuggles, not Shuggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-12-15 00:08:09-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <ah3Db.2369$mC1.854@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > "NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com... > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > > wrote: > > > > >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. > > For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that > > OBL was behind it not SH. > > And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam > thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being held > accountable. Lots of nations thumb their noses at the UN, hell we do it all the time. I'd rather we spent American lives and money on bringing to justice those who waged war against us on American soil than on someone who was caged and contained. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snuggles, not Shuggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-12-15 00:21:35+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"The Babaloughesian" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:briqis$3rm2t$1@ID-177202.news.uni-berlin.de... > > "EGK" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message > news:fqiptv8lgui93nuq6r8tc3d3tep5rib0nn@4ax.com... > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:57:58 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" > <blackhole34@yahoo.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >"NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com... > > >> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. > > >> For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that > > >> OBL was behind it not SH. > > > > > >And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam > > >thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being held > > >accountable. > > > > > > > Let's not talk about the mass graves of iraqis uncovered, the women being > > raped in front of their husbands, the people fed to plastic crunching > > machines and other methods of torture. Let's only remember that WMD were > a > > bit lie even though most all Democrats during the Clinton administration > > were saying the same thing. > > > > Let's only remember that Bush is a moron, he stole the election and that > the > > sweet old man dragged from that hole in the ground was no threat to world > > peace. Besides, we haven't got bin Laden yet. (rolling eyes) > > Can't we agree Bush is a moron who stole the election and that it's pretty > cool that they captured Saddam? FOAD Linda

2003-12-15 00:21:43-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"The Babaloughesian" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:briqis$3rm2t$1@ID-177202.news.uni-berlin.de... > > "EGK" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message > news:fqiptv8lgui93nuq6r8tc3d3tep5rib0nn@4ax.com... > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:57:58 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" > <blackhole34@yahoo.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >"NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com... > > >> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. > > >> For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that > > >> OBL was behind it not SH. > > > > > >And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam > > >thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being held > > >accountable. > > > > > > > Let's not talk about the mass graves of iraqis uncovered, the women being > > raped in front of their husbands, the people fed to plastic crunching > > machines and other methods of torture. Let's only remember that WMD were > a > > bit lie even though most all Democrats during the Clinton administration > > were saying the same thing. > > > > Let's only remember that Bush is a moron, he stole the election and that > the > > sweet old man dragged from that hole in the ground was no threat to world > > peace. Besides, we haven't got bin Laden yet. (rolling eyes) > > Can't we agree Bush is a moron who stole the election and that it's pretty > cool that they captured Saddam? No, No, Yes.

2003-12-15 00:22:55+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"kelvin bonning" <taff@kbonning.invalid> wrote in message news:briib7$mmr$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk... > YEEE-HAAAA!!! We captured Saddam Hussein who was hiding in a cellar in > > >Tikrit! > And Apparently he HATED Tikrit. Whenever he passed the area he would turn > his face away. Fucking Brilliant!! > Torture the Bastard. Play Irish folk music to him twenty-four hours a day. Hey! Not only am I Irish but I Like Irish Folk Music! Take that Back! Linda Mmmmmm.....Angel

2003-12-15 00:24:35+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:4B4Db.2629$mC1.1954@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net... > > "kelvin bonning" <taff@kbonning.invalid> wrote in message > news:briib7$mmr$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk... > > YEEE-HAAAA!!! We captured Saddam Hussein who was hiding in a cellar in > > > >Tikrit! > > And Apparently he HATED Tikrit. Whenever he passed the area he would turn > > his face away. Fucking Brilliant!! > > Torture the Bastard. Play Irish folk music to him twenty-four hours a day. > > No! Play "America The Beautiful" 24 hours a day! Make them play The National Anthem, Stars and Stripes Forever, ETC 24 hours a day. -- Best regards, Linda Mmmmmm......Angel

2003-12-15 00:40:00-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:postmaster-C79BE6.00045315122003@corp.supernews.com... > In article <BTR1702-059A5D.14572214122003@news.west.earthlink.net>, > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > In article <4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com>, NickKnight > > <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. > > > > > For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that > > > OBL was behind it not SH. > > > > Where in any of this was 9/11 even mentioned by anyone but you? > > Some of us just think that the people behind 9/11 are a bigger threat > than SH and that we should not have been wasting our time invading Iraq > while our real enemy is still on the loose. And some of us know that the people behind 9/11 were encouraged and given moral support for thier actions by Sadaam, the Talliban and others in hat are of the world. It is debateable how much Saddam knew before 9/11. The fact that there were meetings between terrorist and Iraqi officials shortly before the occurance is not "PROOF", but it isn't an alibi either. The supposed picture of sadaam in front of the WTC crumbling is not "PROOF" either, but it is a good indication of outlook. Also wasn't iraq one of the few state not to publicly denounce the act? Don't kid yourself, even on the off chance SH was ignorant of the Attack before he saw it on CNN, He was a supporter of it by helping to promote the background ideaology. OBL may be alive, or he may be Cave paste. I think he is in IRAN, lets go dig him out before Iran builds nukes with all the technology the our "ALLIES" the French are proffiteering on. Personally I'd like a public policy of the day a nuke goes off in the US, one goes off in France, maybe then they'd think about who they give the technology to. (N Korea, Mecca, Damascas and tehran would round out the list nicely, maybe just really large dirty bombs.)

2003-12-15 00:59:26-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:postmaster-7CFEDF.00080915122003@corp.supernews.com... > In article <ah3Db.2369$mC1.854@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, > "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > "NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com... > > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. > > > For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that > > > OBL was behind it not SH. > > > > And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam > > thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being held > > accountable. > > Lots of nations thumb their noses at the UN, hell we do it all the time. > I'd rather we spent American lives and money on bringing to justice > those who waged war against us on American soil than on someone who was > caged and contained. That seems hopelessly optomistic to me. For all we know Sadaam funded the idea, but i admit we can't proove it. Don't kid yourself though, Afganistan and Iraq actions are fighting the people who attacked us. It is changing the dynamic of the region. It is sending clear messages that if the NATIONS that have allowed/ignored/funded/trained the TERROR GROUPS that they will be judged with the terrorists. If we succeed in Iraq, then Saudi Arabia loses considerable importance to the US (as our only supposed Arab ally of consequence). This will (and has) force the SA leadership to Reevaluate what they do because then the US will be in a credible position to act otherwise to SA. Lets also look at IRAN, who has suddenly decided to comply with non proliferation treaties lest they are next. Or maybe we should look at Syria who has become less strident in thier approach to the US, and rumor has it has been helping with intel and trying to really control it's borders.

2003-12-15 03:25:28+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (billguy <billguy@swbell.net>)


"Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:z97Db.2162937$be.331204@news.easynews.com... > > "kelvin bonning" <taff@kbonning.invalid> wrote in message > news:briib7$mmr$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk... > > YEEE-HAAAA!!! We captured Saddam Hussein who was hiding in a cellar in > > > >Tikrit! > > And Apparently he HATED Tikrit. Whenever he passed the area he would turn > > his face away. Fucking Brilliant!! > > Torture the Bastard. Play Irish folk music to him twenty-four hours a day. > > Hey! Not only am I Irish but I Like Irish Folk Music! Take that Back! > > Linda > > Mmmmmm.....Angel > > I hear he doesn't watch "Angel" but can't get enough of "American Idol". It appears he thinks Simon is funny and Paula is hot. billguy

2003-12-15 06:02:11-08:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (crc@crcdesign.net)


NickKnight <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<pb4ptv4v5lar2pm113rnfgel8o5higdhrq@4ax.com>... > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:10:01 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" > <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >YEEE-HAAAA!!! We captured Saddam Hussein who was hiding in a cellar in > >Tikrit! > > > Of course OBL is still at large. You still think we should be looking for OBL? I thought we decided that, like WMD, if we can't find him quickly, he doesn't really exist. He was just a fiction created by Al-Queda, much as a recent nuclear and chemical weapons program were a fiction created by Hussian, to appear stronger and provide a focal point for mocking the UN and US - thereby providing an overall boost in morale and status among his supporters and collegues.

2003-12-15 09:40:42-08:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Mark Jones <sinanju@pacifier.com>)


Snuggles wrote: > In article <ah3Db.2369$mC1.854@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, > "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >>"NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>news:4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com... >> >>>On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> >>>wrote: >>> >>> >>>>For some people the glass is *always* half empty. >>> >>>For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that >>>OBL was behind it not SH. >> >>And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam >>thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being held >>accountable. > > > Lots of nations thumb their noses at the UN, hell we do it all the time. > I'd rather we spent American lives and money on bringing to justice > those who waged war against us on American soil than on someone who was > caged and contained. What a coincidence, then, that now that Iraq is in our hands rather than Saddam's, we have a staging area for dealing with terrorists lurking elsewhere in the middle east. What a coincidence that we've made an object lesson of a nation that made a practice of aiding and abetting terrorists. What a coincidence that Iraq's oilfields can now be used to produce lots of oil, greatly reducing Saudi Arabia's leverage in that area if we piss them off by insisting that they stop supporting radical Islamic nutbars. What a coincidence that a secular, democratic, prosperous Iraq will demonstrate that western-style freedom and wealth are perfectly possible in the middle east--if only the kleptocrats and dictators and religious nutbars are pushed aside.

2003-12-15 11:44:05-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


----- Original Message ----- From: "A.E. Jabbour" <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> Newsgroups: alt.tv.angel Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 6:27 AM Subject: Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! > Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > > > And some of us know that the people behind 9/11 were > > encouraged and given moral support for thier actions by > > Sadaam, the Talliban and others in hat are of the world. > > And some of us know that right behind the Royal Family of > Saudi Arabia, and their biggest supporters (the United States > government), Saddam Hussein was disliked to a great degree > by Osama bin-Laden, and his ilk. Perhaps, I missed the AL-Queda attacks on Iraqis.... OBL stepped up his activity VS the us because of the 1/2 hearted effert in GW part 1. That one of OBL's goals is to make himself king of SA I've never disputed. The fact remains that the Terror organizations are funded (at least paid off) by members of the Saudi Royal family (at least they were till recently, perhaps SA has restricted this now). They were certainly allowed training bases in Various countries, including at least 1 area in Iraq. > To imply otherwise is to ignore everything about the > situation. Everything. You are wrong there, Iraq was quite a ways down the list, and given that they were opposed to the US, they may even have been a country to be added to the list at a later date. > Not to mention, what exactly did Saddam Hussein do as far > as helping with 9/11? How could he have helped? It doesn't > even make any sense, even if bin-Laden would have needed > or wanted his help. I said he provided the part of the Atmosphere in that part of the world that promotes the terror. We know his representative met with Al-Queda guys. Given the Huge amount of US Cash Sadaam had at his beck and call, we can't proove anything except opportunity. We know "alleged al-Qaida terrorist named Abu Mussab al-Zakawi" was making cell phone calls from Iraq. > Look, Hussein is a horrible human being who was also a > dictator, oppressing many of the people of Iraq. Is it a > good thing that he hasn't been running Iraq for the last > seven-plus months? Sure. Does that mean that much, really, > to me? No, not at all. Well, not sure where you live, lets say Montana. If the Govoner and the national guard started doing in Montana what Saddam was doing to the kurds, that really wouldn't affect me in TN eith would it? Or lets look at the Serbs ethnicly clensing Bosnia (just like the Muslims were in other areas of Bosnia) That really doesn't affect me. Hmm Rhuanda, Liberia, Even the Twin Towers didn't kill me or my family in Tennessee. Then again I'm white, so Jim Crow wasn't bad for me either. (in theory I was born in the Space age and missed it). > There are many horrible dictators in the world. There > always have been, since the dawn of what we like to call > "civilization." And, guess what? There always will be. > > Does that mean that we, as human beings, should do nothing? > No, not at all. But it also means that a lot of the > rhetoric which flies around every few decades about putting > an end to suffering and oppression, and liberating the > masses is just that: talk. Unless we make some effort things will not change. These days the only group able to overthrow a government by force is the military. Or Rebel Groups Finanaced and equiped with military weapons. > While Hussein served a purpose in the eyes of U.S. govern- > ment, he was a buddy. Once his being an enemy served a > purpose, he was just that, an enemy. This isn't the first > time this has happened. And it won't be the last, either. > Every country does it. It's just that the U.S. has more > economic, military, and political might to enforce whichever > side of the fence we happen to be on at that moment. > > The most powerful nation in the world is the United States. This is still true but not by much, China is rapidly closing that gap. And Europe is uniting and has less military perhaps but just as much economic might. If Russia joins with the France/German faction then I think the US becomes a quick second... this of course terrifys Countries like poland.... might be 1 reason why they went to Iraq. India also is a growing power, though they have been Careful to keep a low profile in the shadow of China (Not neccessarily under the influence, just that they don't want a India/China Clash.) > At various times in history, that title could have been > applied to Great Britain, Germany, France, China, the > Roman Empire, the Macedonians, the Egyptians, the Mongols, > the Moors, etc. They all have acted in generally the same > manner. And whoever is the strongest and most powerful > in three centuries will act in that same manner as well. > > Are the specifics different? Sure. Of course they are, > as specifics are always different. But the general nature > of great powers is to increase both influence and power at > nearly any cost over the long term. We have gone a different route here, we sidestepped our great moment. > Human beings don't > change. Our technology changes, and our knowledge changes. > But human beings have remained basically unchanged since > the beginning. And, as a result, the basic nature of > those constructs of human beings does not change either. > I think once a person looks at the world through the > dual lenses of human nature and the dynamics of power, > pretty much everything starts to make sense (at least as > far as how it fits together with everything else). This is true to an extent. But human nature is greatly modified by society and technology. Compare the Bombing of > So, in this case, does it matter that we captured Hussein? > Sure, in the short term it's a victory for the administration. > It doesn't really matter to Hussein, since he was a dead > man either way. And it doesn't matter in any large scale > or long term sense. It's at most a footnote to history, > as is this entire engagement. That remains to be seen. Reagan calling for Gobachov (IIRC) to tear down the wall was viewed as a foot note, untill the policies of Reagan brought about that change under daddy Bush. > Just as we individuals often see some event in our life as > the biggest, most important thing, societies do the same > thing. > > But we all come with an expiration date. The only question > is whether it is tomorrow, next year, next decade, etc. The > same is true for societies and for every "grand idea" which > has come down the road. And Iraq is about extending our Shelf Life.

2003-12-15 12:27:58+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (aej17DELETEME@comcast.net)


Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > And some of us know that the people behind 9/11 were > encouraged and given moral support for thier actions by > Sadaam, the Talliban and others in hat are of the world. And some of us know that right behind the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia, and their biggest supporters (the United States government), Saddam Hussein was disliked to a great degree by Osama bin-Laden, and his ilk. To imply otherwise is to ignore everything about the situation. Everything. Not to mention, what exactly did Saddam Hussein do as far as helping with 9/11? How could he have helped? It doesn't even make any sense, even if bin-Laden would have needed or wanted his help. Look, Hussein is a horrible human being who was also a dictator, oppressing many of the people of Iraq. Is it a good thing that he hasn't been running Iraq for the last seven-plus months? Sure. Does that mean that much, really, to me? No, not at all. There are many horrible dictators in the world. There always have been, since the dawn of what we like to call "civilization." And, guess what? There always will be. Does that mean that we, as human beings, should do nothing? No, not at all. But it also means that a lot of the rhetoric which flies around every few decades about putting an end to suffering and oppression, and liberating the masses is just that: talk. While Hussein served a purpose in the eyes of U.S. govern- ment, he was a buddy. Once his being an enemy served a purpose, he was just that, an enemy. This isn't the first time this has happened. And it won't be the last, either. Every country does it. It's just that the U.S. has more economic, military, and political might to enforce whichever side of the fence we happen to be on at that moment. The most powerful nation in the world is the United States. At various times in history, that title could have been applied to Great Britain, Germany, France, China, the Roman Empire, the Macedonians, the Egyptians, the Mongols, the Moors, etc. They all have acted in generally the same manner. And whoever is the strongest and most powerful in three centuries will act in that same manner as well. Are the specifics different? Sure. Of course they are, as specifics are always different. But the general nature of great powers is to increase both influence and power at nearly any cost over the long term. Human beings don't change. Our technology changes, and our knowledge changes. But human beings have remained basically unchanged since the beginning. And, as a result, the basic nature of those constructs of human beings does not change either. I think once a person looks at the world through the dual lenses of human nature and the dynamics of power, pretty much everything starts to make sense (at least as far as how it fits together with everything else). So, in this case, does it matter that we captured Hussein? Sure, in the short term it's a victory for the administration. It doesn't really matter to Hussein, since he was a dead man either way. And it doesn't matter in any large scale or long term sense. It's at most a footnote to history, as is this entire engagement. Just as we individuals often see some event in our life as the biggest, most important thing, societies do the same thing. But we all come with an expiration date. The only question is whether it is tomorrow, next year, next decade, etc. The same is true for societies and for every "grand idea" which has come down the road. -- AE Jabbour "I mean, I may have ripped off Vertigo, The Shining, James Ellroy, James M. Cain, Barton Fink, Rebel Without a Cause, Vertigo, Psycho, Kiss Me Deadly, Double Indemnity and The Hudsucker Proxy - but I'm certainly no plagiarist!" Tim Minear, alt.tv.angel, 10.05.2000

2003-12-15 13:41:29+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <postmaster-C79BE6.00045315122003@corp.supernews.com>, Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote: > In article <BTR1702-059A5D.14572214122003@news.west.earthlink.net>, > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > In article <4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com>, NickKnight > > <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. > > > > > For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that > > > OBL was behind it not SH. > > > > Where in any of this was 9/11 even mentioned by anyone but you? > > Some of us just think that the people behind 9/11 are a bigger threat > than SH and that we should not have been wasting our time invading Iraq > while our real enemy is still on the loose. The people who do things like 9-11 aren't the sort of people you send the army after. It's the FBI that's waging that "war" and they aren't invading Iraq. They're hard at work finding terrorists.

2003-12-15 20:40:24-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:57:58 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: >And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam >thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being held >accountable. Like how you only give a fuck about UN resolutions when it's convenient.

2003-12-15 20:41:27-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:52:50 -0500, EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >Let's not talk about the mass graves of iraqis uncovered, the women being >raped in front of their husbands, the people fed to plastic crunching >machines and other methods of torture. Let's only remember that WMD were a >bit lie even though most all Democrats during the Clinton administration >were saying the same thing. So we're going after the president of Zimbabwe next, right?

2003-12-15 20:42:02-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 18:09:14 -0500, "The Babaloughesian" <me@privacy.net> wrote: >Can't we agree Bush is a moron who stole the election and that it's pretty >cool that they captured Saddam? Ya got my vote.

2003-12-15 20:43:22-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:35:28 -0800, Alicat <me@privacy.net> wrote: >>Can't we agree Bush is a moron who stole the election and that it's pretty >>cool that they captured Saddam? >> >No. > >I don't agree. (responding to all of the above) So now that we've "captured" a man that really doesn't matter in the big scheme of things, everything The

2003-12-15 20:48:38-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:35:28 -0800, Alicat <me@privacy.net> wrote: >>Can't we agree Bush is a moron who stole the election and that it's pretty >>cool that they captured Saddam? >> >No. > >I don't agree. Frack, I hit Send by accident. Redo (responding to all the above) So... simply since we finally "captured" a man who doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things, all of The Miserable Failure's past transgressions are completely erased? That's sweet, man, really sweet.

2003-12-15 20:56:38-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:40:42 -0800, Mark Jones <sinanju@pacifier.com> wrote: >What a coincidence that Iraq's oilfields can now be used to >produce lots of oil, Eventually, hopefully, not now of course... >greatly reducing Saudi Arabia's leverage in that >area if we piss them off by insisting that they stop supporting radical >Islamic nutbars. This is true. >What a coincidence that a secular, democratic, >prosperous Iraq will demonstrate that western-style freedom and wealth >are perfectly possible in the middle east--if only the kleptocrats and >dictators and religious nutbars are pushed aside. Maybe, hopefully, if we don't fuck it up and if THEY don't fuck it up and if some OTHER dudes don't come along and fuck it up.... I hope it comes together, really I do.

2003-12-15 20:57:21-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:40:00 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: >And some of us know that the people behind 9/11 were >encouraged and given moral support for thier actions by >Sadaam, the Talliban and others in hat are of the world. OBL thinks Saddam Hussein is a chuckleheaded fool.

2003-12-15 20:59:45-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:44:05 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: >Well, not sure where you live, lets say Montana. >If the Govoner and the national guard started doing >in Montana what Saddam was doing to the kurds, >that really wouldn't affect me in TN eith would it? Excepting of course that Montana and Tennessee are both part of the United Fricking States of America, duh?

2003-12-15 21:00:45-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:41:29 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >The people who do things like 9-11 aren't the sort of people you send >the army after. It's the FBI that's waging that "war" and they aren't >invading Iraq. They're hard at work finding terrorists. An' more power to 'em. In fact, channel more funding to THEM and take down the fricking huge war machine a few notches.

2003-12-15 21:06:45-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:59:26 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: >> Lots of nations thumb their noses at the UN, hell we do it all the time. >> I'd rather we spent American lives and money on bringing to justice >> those who waged war against us on American soil than on someone who was >> caged and contained. > >That seems hopelessly optomistic to me. For all we know >Sadaam funded the idea, but i admit we can't proove it. Sadaam Hussein couldn't organize a frickin' tea party for a fourth-grader.

2003-12-15 21:06:45-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:59:26 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: >Lets also look at IRAN, who has suddenly decided to >comply with non proliferation treaties lest they are next. OTOH we could also look at Iran diplomatically and see that their *people* are more interested in a Turkish-style democratic government than the current Islamist status quo. And maybe we could help them without, y'know, killing a bunch of 'em and stuff. For a change.

2003-12-15 21:06:51-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:41:27 -0500, forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote: >On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:52:50 -0500, EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > >>Let's not talk about the mass graves of iraqis uncovered, the women being >>raped in front of their husbands, the people fed to plastic crunching >>machines and other methods of torture. Let's only remember that WMD were a >>bit lie even though most all Democrats during the Clinton administration >>were saying the same thing. > >So we're going after the president of Zimbabwe next, right? non sequitur. We had to start somewhere. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

2003-12-16 00:21:11-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"forge" <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote in message news:onpstvs628m8pfobhtol7jstb2dd7928bu@4ax.com... > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:44:05 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > >Well, not sure where you live, lets say Montana. > >If the Govoner and the national guard started doing > >in Montana what Saddam was doing to the kurds, > >that really wouldn't affect me in TN eith would it? > > Excepting of course that Montana and Tennessee are both part of the > United Fricking States of America, duh? What difference would that make to me? Answer none, not really. Just as 1000's of people dying conviently out of site doesn't affect Snuggles enough to make them worth saving. 1000 miles, 12,000 big deal. If your gonna quote from a thread and respond you should try maintain the thread so its context is preserved and understandable. I however have been blatantly pro GW part 2. Quoting out of context twists my meaning or was that your intention?

2003-12-16 00:21:43-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"forge" <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote in message news:6ppstv4td9vjb8mrbq4jd2fqsqs0ed8lb3@4ax.com... > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:41:29 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > wrote: > > >The people who do things like 9-11 aren't the sort of people you send > >the army after. It's the FBI that's waging that "war" and they aren't > >invading Iraq. They're hard at work finding terrorists. > > An' more power to 'em. In fact, channel more funding to THEM and take > down the fricking huge war machine a few notches. bad idea, but not a surprise.

2003-12-16 02:05:35-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <LLidnam1m6a5OUOiRVn-ig@comcast.com>, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > "forge" <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote in message > news:onpstvs628m8pfobhtol7jstb2dd7928bu@4ax.com... > > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:44:05 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > > <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > > > >Well, not sure where you live, lets say Montana. > > >If the Govoner and the national guard started doing > > >in Montana what Saddam was doing to the kurds, > > >that really wouldn't affect me in TN eith would it? > > > > Excepting of course that Montana and Tennessee are both part of the > > United Fricking States of America, duh? > > What difference would that make to me? > > Answer none, not really. > > Just as 1000's of people dying conviently out of site > doesn't affect Snuggles enough to make them worth saving. Hey... American lives mean more to me. I'll admit that. As a result if Americans have to die for a cause I'd rather they die for something that will benefit us. Going after SH hardly qualifies, Afghanistan did. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan���would. Supporting Tawain against China would. All Iraq did was make IBL stronger and that's something we didn't need. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snuggles, not Shuggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-12-16 02:46:03-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"forge" <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote in message news:c6pstv8scm5seb98d2h1k8e359bpoks3b4@4ax.com... > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:59:26 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > >> Lots of nations thumb their noses at the UN, hell we do it all the time. > >> I'd rather we spent American lives and money on bringing to justice > >> those who waged war against us on American soil than on someone who was > >> caged and contained. > > > >That seems hopelessly optomistic to me. For all we know > >Sadaam funded the idea, but i admit we can't proove it. > > Sadaam Hussein couldn't organize a frickin' tea party for a > fourth-grader. lol, whatever i think I'm done taking you seriously

2003-12-16 02:55:20-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"forge" <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote in message news:68pstvkv57omqt7ctc5h4a8iep41b1pf3d@4ax.com... > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:59:26 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > >Lets also look at IRAN, who has suddenly decided to > >comply with non proliferation treaties lest they are next. > > OTOH we could also look at Iran diplomatically and see that their > *people* are more interested in a Turkish-style democratic government > than the current Islamist status quo. And maybe we could help them > without, y'know, killing a bunch of 'em and stuff. For a change. Again with the twisting my meaning through your selective quoting. War is Diplomatic tool. We have exerted that tool in IRAQ, and it has opened/created numerous other diplomatic channels in the region already. The entire Point in my list that you missed is that WITHOUT invading Iran, Iran is making an effort to peacefully coexist with the US, and the world. Before they like OBL believed that the US wouldn't act in a meaningful way if casualties were involved. Why? Ford Pulling out of Vietnam Aborted Rescue attempt by Carter (in Iran) Pullout of Beruit by Reagan Half finished Job in GW part 1 by Daddy Bush Clinton pulls out of Somalia & The USS Cole incident We had shown world that a bloody nose sends us home for 30 years and 5 Presidents. Heck the mere threat of a bloody nose sends the French and the UN to a bomb shelter before they get one. Yes I know the Bloody nose I talk about here are real lives, But they are relatively few lives. Yes each one is precious, but that is no less true for the 10,000's of Iraqis that died under the bootheels of the Saddam. And that is a very conservative estimate of the number. The US troops killed (god bless each and every one) Is about the same as people that are murdered in Los Angeles on a daily basis. And that is just 1 US city http://www.streetgangs.com/newsletter/yellowtape.html http://www.lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx Daily Death Statististics Coalition Troops 2.004 US Iraq Deaths 1.690 LA Murder Victims 2002 1.753 LA Murder Victims 2003 est 1.978 (+13%) Suicide US 1990-1994 20.985 Murder 2004 US non negligant manslaughter 44.395 http://www.streetgangs.com/newsletter/yellowtape.html http://www.lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm http://www.sweenypolice.org/2002_police_deaths.htm http://www.usfa.fema.gov/inside-usfa/nfdc/pubs/ff_fat.shtm US Police and Firefighters killed in line of duty 2004

2003-12-16 03:59:48+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <gjostvkmc3k6s2ieljgr17t36qab36u5op@4ax.com>, forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote: > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:57:58 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" > <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam > >thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being held > >accountable. > > Like how you only give a fuck about UN resolutions when it's > convenient No, I'm pretty much consistent in that I've never given a fuck about the UN or its resolutions.

2003-12-16 14:57:32-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:postmaster-41FDD6.15380616122003@corp.supernews.com... > In article <lllutv4i3qfg2kei1jflbh5ahl35g99chk@4ax.com>, > Alicat <me@privacy.net> wrote: > > > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:06:45 -0500, forge > > <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote: > > > > >On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:59:26 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > > ><jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > > > > >>Lets also look at IRAN, who has suddenly decided to > > >>comply with non proliferation treaties lest they are next. > > > > > >OTOH we could also look at Iran diplomatically and see that their > > >*people* are more interested in a Turkish-style democratic government > > >than the current Islamist status quo. And maybe we could help them > > >without, y'know, killing a bunch of 'em and stuff. For a change. > > > > > > Please do offer a concrete suggestion as to how we are going to help > > the Iranian people in this regard? The ultra conservative (Islamicist) > > mullahs control the government and thereby the military/police, and > > those within the government, including the elected president, who have > > attempted to institute democratic reforms and greater freedoms have > > been solidly defeated at every turn. > > > > So what would you think we (i.e. the U.S.) might do? > > > > (I am sincerely asking as I am sincerely interested!) > > Trade and lots of it. Carpet bomb them with American goods at prices > they can't turn down. Funnel money to outside Arab media groups to > promote Western ideals. Make agreements with their close neighbors and > sell them cut rate satellite dishes to increase the black market of such > items into Iran. Actively promote the teaching of Islam and the Koran to > women in neighboring nations (so they understand that many of the > repressions they suffer under are not actually supported under Islam). > Additionally, mass produce and smuggle teaching aids for women to the > more remote areas along with basic supplies. > -- Many of the idea you posted are cute, how many billons of dollars of goods should we buy from china to ship to iran? lol This is similar to the old plot to overthrow russia by giving everyone in the country a Fax machine. lol Or we could invade a neighbor in overwhelming force so that they reconsider how they respond to the reformers among thier youth... oh wait, we already did.

2003-12-16 15:38:06-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <lllutv4i3qfg2kei1jflbh5ahl35g99chk@4ax.com>, Alicat <me@privacy.net> wrote: > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:06:45 -0500, forge > <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote: > > >On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:59:26 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > ><jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > > >>Lets also look at IRAN, who has suddenly decided to > >>comply with non proliferation treaties lest they are next. > > > >OTOH we could also look at Iran diplomatically and see that their > >*people* are more interested in a Turkish-style democratic government > >than the current Islamist status quo. And maybe we could help them > >without, y'know, killing a bunch of 'em and stuff. For a change. > > > Please do offer a concrete suggestion as to how we are going to help > the Iranian people in this regard? The ultra conservative (Islamicist) > mullahs control the government and thereby the military/police, and > those within the government, including the elected president, who have > attempted to institute democratic reforms and greater freedoms have > been solidly defeated at every turn. > > So what would you think we (i.e. the U.S.) might do? > > (I am sincerely asking as I am sincerely interested!) Trade and lots of it. Carpet bomb them with American goods at prices they can't turn down. Funnel money to outside Arab media groups to promote Western ideals. Make agreements with their close neighbors and sell them cut rate satellite dishes to increase the black market of such items into Iran. Actively promote the teaching of Islam and the Koran to women in neighboring nations (so they understand that many of the repressions they suffer under are not actually supported under Islam). Additionally, mass produce and smuggle teaching aids for women to the more remote areas along with basic supplies. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snuggles, not Shuggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-12-16 16:46:11+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Brent McKee <bSmckee@shaw.caN>)


"Alicat" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:qp3stvop5r1jhapftpvb0kmbhg6oo44l5t@4ax.com... > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:22:55 GMT, "Linda" > <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote: > > > > >"kelvin bonning" <taff@kbonning.invalid> wrote in message > >news:briib7$mmr$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk... > >> YEEE-HAAAA!!! We captured Saddam Hussein who was hiding in a cellar in > >> > >Tikrit! > >> And Apparently he HATED Tikrit. Whenever he passed the area he would turn > >> his face away. Fucking Brilliant!! > >> Torture the Bastard. Play Irish folk music to him twenty-four hours a day. > > > >Hey! Not only am I Irish but I Like Irish Folk Music! Take that Back! > > > >Linda > > > >Mmmmmm.....Angel > > > I'm not Irish, and I *love* Irish folk music, so please don't use that > as an example of "torture". I vote for 24 hours a day of accordian > music, especially polkas. Its already been tested in various circles > of hell and has the BadHouseKeeping(TM) seal of approval! Try student bagpipers at a range of about 3 feet. Accordion music is nothing compared with that. -- Brent McKee To reply by email, please remove the capital letters (S and N) from the email address "If we cease to judge this world, we may find ourselves, very quickly, in one which is infinitely worse." - Margaret Atwood "Nothing is more dangerous than a dogmatic worldview - nothing more constraining, more blinding to innovation, more destructive of openness to novelty. " - Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002)

2003-12-16 17:24:12-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <W9CdnUjZ3vkY7EKiRVn-iQ@comcast.com>, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > "Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message > news:postmaster-41FDD6.15380616122003@corp.supernews.com... > > In article <lllutv4i3qfg2kei1jflbh5ahl35g99chk@4ax.com>, > > Alicat <me@privacy.net> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:06:45 -0500, forge > > > <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote: > > > > > > >On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:59:26 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > > > ><jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > > > > > > >>Lets also look at IRAN, who has suddenly decided to > > > >>comply with non proliferation treaties lest they are next. > > > > > > > >OTOH we could also look at Iran diplomatically and see that their > > > >*people* are more interested in a Turkish-style democratic government > > > >than the current Islamist status quo. And maybe we could help them > > > >without, y'know, killing a bunch of 'em and stuff. For a change. > > > > > > > > > Please do offer a concrete suggestion as to how we are going to help > > > the Iranian people in this regard? The ultra conservative (Islamicist) > > > mullahs control the government and thereby the military/police, and > > > those within the government, including the elected president, who have > > > attempted to institute democratic reforms and greater freedoms have > > > been solidly defeated at every turn. > > > > > > So what would you think we (i.e. the U.S.) might do? > > > > > > (I am sincerely asking as I am sincerely interested!) > > > > Trade and lots of it. Carpet bomb them with American goods at prices > > they can't turn down. Funnel money to outside Arab media groups to > > promote Western ideals. Make agreements with their close neighbors and > > sell them cut rate satellite dishes to increase the black market of such > > items into Iran. Actively promote the teaching of Islam and the Koran to > > women in neighboring nations (so they understand that many of the > > repressions they suffer under are not actually supported under Islam). > > Additionally, mass produce and smuggle teaching aids for women to the > > more remote areas along with basic supplies. > > -- > > Many of the idea you posted are cute, how many billons of dollars > of goods should we buy from china to ship to iran? lol > > This is similar to the old plot to overthrow russia by giving everyone > in the country a Fax machine. It worked against the Eastern bloc and its working against China right now. In fact, your suggestion to buy from China is actually a good one, killing two birds with one stone. If we had opened up trade with Cuba FC would have been history.... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snuggles, not Shuggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-12-16 19:14:56-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:postmaster-DCF9F9.17241116122003@corp.supernews.com... > In article <W9CdnUjZ3vkY7EKiRVn-iQ@comcast.com>, > "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > > "Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message > > news:postmaster-41FDD6.15380616122003@corp.supernews.com... > > > In article <lllutv4i3qfg2kei1jflbh5ahl35g99chk@4ax.com>, > > > Alicat <me@privacy.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:06:45 -0500, forge > > > > <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:59:26 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > > > > ><jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >>Lets also look at IRAN, who has suddenly decided to > > > > >>comply with non proliferation treaties lest they are next. > > > > > > > > > >OTOH we could also look at Iran diplomatically and see that their > > > > >*people* are more interested in a Turkish-style democratic government > > > > >than the current Islamist status quo. And maybe we could help them > > > > >without, y'know, killing a bunch of 'em and stuff. For a change. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do offer a concrete suggestion as to how we are going to help > > > > the Iranian people in this regard? The ultra conservative (Islamicist) > > > > mullahs control the government and thereby the military/police, and > > > > those within the government, including the elected president, who have > > > > attempted to institute democratic reforms and greater freedoms have > > > > been solidly defeated at every turn. > > > > > > > > So what would you think we (i.e. the U.S.) might do? > > > > > > > > (I am sincerely asking as I am sincerely interested!) > > > > > > Trade and lots of it. Carpet bomb them with American goods at prices > > > they can't turn down. Funnel money to outside Arab media groups to > > > promote Western ideals. Make agreements with their close neighbors and > > > sell them cut rate satellite dishes to increase the black market of such > > > items into Iran. Actively promote the teaching of Islam and the Koran to > > > women in neighboring nations (so they understand that many of the > > > repressions they suffer under are not actually supported under Islam). > > > Additionally, mass produce and smuggle teaching aids for women to the > > > more remote areas along with basic supplies. > > > -- > > > > Many of the idea you posted are cute, how many billons of dollars > > of goods should we buy from china to ship to iran? lol > > > > This is similar to the old plot to overthrow russia by giving everyone > > in the country a Fax machine. > > It worked against the Eastern bloc and its working against China right > now. In fact, your suggestion to buy from China is actually a good one, > killing two birds with one stone. If we had opened up trade with Cuba FC > would have been history.... lol, but we never implemented the Fax machine overthrow, instead we engaged in an arms race including SDI that broke their weaker socialist economy.

2003-12-16 21:34:02-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:06:51 -0500, EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>Let's not talk about the mass graves of iraqis uncovered, the women being >>>raped in front of their husbands, the people fed to plastic crunching >>>machines and other methods of torture. Let's only remember that WMD were a >>>bit lie even though most all Democrats during the Clinton administration >>>were saying the same thing. >> >>So we're going after the president of Zimbabwe next, right? > >non sequitur. We had to start somewhere. Well, not a TOTAL nonsequitur, but yeah. But you'll never EVER convince me that Bush and his cronies really give a fuck about a bunch of "sand n*ggers" getting tortured and killed by their president.

2003-12-16 21:35:34-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 00:21:11 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: >If your gonna quote from a thread and respond you should try >maintain the thread so its context is preserved and understandable. I only quote what's pertinent. No sane person wants to read 200 lines of inane babble and "greater than" signs with 10 or 20 more lines of fresh bullshit added in.

2003-12-16 21:36:52-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 00:21:43 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: >> >The people who do things like 9-11 aren't the sort of people you send >> >the army after. It's the FBI that's waging that "war" and they aren't >> >invading Iraq. They're hard at work finding terrorists. >> >> An' more power to 'em. In fact, channel more funding to THEM and take >> down the fricking huge war machine a few notches. > >bad idea, but not a surprise. Why would funding covert ops be such a bad idea? Why is stuffing money into the pockets of the CEOs of defense contractors a good idea?

2003-12-16 21:39:45-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:04:04 -0800, Alicat <me@privacy.net> wrote: >>>Lets also look at IRAN, who has suddenly decided to >>>comply with non proliferation treaties lest they are next. >> >>OTOH we could also look at Iran diplomatically and see that their >>*people* are more interested in a Turkish-style democratic government >>than the current Islamist status quo. And maybe we could help them >>without, y'know, killing a bunch of 'em and stuff. For a change. > > >Please do offer a concrete suggestion as to how we are going to help >the Iranian people in this regard? The ultra conservative (Islamicist) >mullahs control the government and thereby the military/police, and >those within the government, including the elected president, who have >attempted to institute democratic reforms and greater freedoms have >been solidly defeated at every turn. > >So what would you think we (i.e. the U.S.) might do? > >(I am sincerely asking as I am sincerely interested!) Honestly I'm not sure but I'm betting diplomacy is a far, FAR better solution than rolling in with tanks and planes and guns. Hey, I never claimed to be a diplomat y'know.

2003-12-16 21:40:33-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:38:06 -0500, Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote: >> Please do offer a concrete suggestion as to how we are going to help >> the Iranian people in this regard? The ultra conservative (Islamicist) >> mullahs control the government and thereby the military/police, and >> those within the government, including the elected president, who have >> attempted to institute democratic reforms and greater freedoms have >> been solidly defeated at every turn. >> >> So what would you think we (i.e. the U.S.) might do? >> >> (I am sincerely asking as I am sincerely interested!) > >Trade and lots of it. Carpet bomb them with American goods at prices >they can't turn down. I've heard tell we're doing that after a limited fashion right now. So, go us.

2003-12-16 21:40:59-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:38:06 -0500, Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote: >Trade and lots of it. Carpet bomb them with American goods at prices >they can't turn down. Funnel money to outside Arab media groups to >promote Western ideals. Make agreements with their close neighbors and >sell them cut rate satellite dishes to increase the black market of such >items into Iran. Actively promote the teaching of Islam and the Koran to >women in neighboring nations (so they understand that many of the >repressions they suffer under are not actually supported under Islam). >Additionally, mass produce and smuggle teaching aids for women to the >more remote areas along with basic supplies. What Snuggles said.

2003-12-16 21:42:06-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:46:03 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: >> Sadaam Hussein couldn't organize a frickin' tea party for a >> fourth-grader. > >lol, whatever i think I'm done taking you seriously Well good, I never took YOU seriously.

2003-12-16 21:46:00-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 03:59:48 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:57:58 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" >> <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam >> >thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being held >> >accountable. >> >> Like how you only give a fuck about UN resolutions when it's >> convenient > >No, I'm pretty much consistent in that I've never given a fuck about the >UN or its resolutions. Heh. I was sorta addressing Buckaroo there BTR. I see an extra set of chevrons though, maybe we lost attribution in my overzealous snippage. Anyway I agree, the UN is swiftly closing in on total inconsequentiality in this world - which is why it's absurd to call out Saddam for ignoring them. Everbody ignores them, including us. But you know that already.

2003-12-16 23:30:11-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:34:02 -0500, forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote: >On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:06:51 -0500, EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > >>>>Let's not talk about the mass graves of iraqis uncovered, the women being >>>>raped in front of their husbands, the people fed to plastic crunching >>>>machines and other methods of torture. Let's only remember that WMD were a >>>>bit lie even though most all Democrats during the Clinton administration >>>>were saying the same thing. >>> >>>So we're going after the president of Zimbabwe next, right? >> >>non sequitur. We had to start somewhere. > >Well, not a TOTAL nonsequitur, but yeah. But you'll never EVER >convince me that Bush and his cronies really give a fuck about a bunch >of "sand n*ggers" getting tortured and killed by their president. Do you believe Clinton and Gore and Kerry and most of the other Democrats are any different? They were all saying the same things as Bush about WMD all during the Clinton administration. Now it's suddenly all about Bush lying. Clinton was even quoted as saying eventually we would have to deal with Saddam Hussein. Well, he didn't and this President did. I'm pretty sure you won't agree with the following article but this is a take from a Democrat who says sometimes his fellow Democrats ARE unpatriotic. And it works both ways too. Some of the same arguments used against Bush now were used against Clinton while he was bombing the former Yugoslavia in to submission. Why wasn't he in Africa going after those bent on genocide for instance. Anyway, here's the link http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110004435 The Campaign of Hate and Fear Some of my fellow Democrats are unpatriotic. BY ORSON SCOTT CARD Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:01 a.m. EST In one of Patrick O'Brian's novels about the British navy during the Napoleonic wars, he dismisses a particularly foolish politician by saying that his political platform was "death to the Whigs." Watching the primary campaigns among this year's pathetic crop of Democratic candidates, I can't help but think that their campaigns would be vastly improved if they would only rise to the level of "Death to the Republicans." Instead, their platforms range from Howard Dean's "Bush is the devil" to everybody else's "I'll make you rich, and Bush is quite similar to the devil." Since President Bush is quite plainly not the devil, one wonders why anyone in the Democratic Party thinks this ploy will play with the general public. There are Democrats, like me, who think it will not play, and should not play, and who are waiting in the wings until after the coming electoral debacle in order to try to remake the party into something more resembling America. But then I watch the steady campaign of the national news media to try to win this for the Democrats, and I wonder. Could this insane, self-destructive, extremist-dominated party actually win the presidency? It might--because the media are trying as hard as they can to pound home the message that the Bush presidency is a failure--even though by every rational measure it is not. And the most vile part of this campaign against Mr. Bush is that the terrorist war is being used as a tool to try to defeat him--which means that if Mr. Bush does not win, we will certainly lose the war. Indeed, the anti-Bush campaign threatens to undermine our war effort, give encouragement to our enemies, and cost American lives during the long year of campaigning that lies ahead of us. Osama bin Laden's military strategy is: If you make a war cost enough, Americans will give up and go home. Now, bin Laden isn't actually all that bright; his campaign to make us go home is in fact what brought us into Afghanistan and Iraq. But he's still telling his followers: Keep killing Americans and eventually, antigovernment factions within the United States will choose to give up the struggle. It's what happened in Somalia, isn't it? And it's what happened in Vietnam, too. Reuters recently ran a feature that trumpeted the "fact" that U.S. casualties in Iraq have now surpassed U.S. casualties in the first three years of the Vietnam War. Never mind that this is a specious distortion of the facts, which depends on the ignorance of American readers. The fact is that during the first three years of the war in Vietnam, dating from the official "beginning" of the war in 1961, American casualties were low because (a) we had fewer than 20,000 soldiers there, (b) most of them were advisers, deliberately trying to avoid a direct combat role, (c) our few combat troops were special forces, who generally get to pick and choose the time and place of their combat, and (d) because our presence was so much smaller, there were fewer American targets than in Iraq today. Compare our casualties in Iraq with our casualties in Vietnam when we had a comparable number of troops, and by every rational measure--casualties per thousand troops, casualties per year, or absolute number of casualties--you'll find that the Iraq campaign is far, far less costly than Vietnam. But the media want Americans to think that Iraq is like Vietnam--or rather, that Iraq is like the story that the Left likes to tell about Vietnam. Vietnam was a quagmire only because we fought it that way. If we had closed North Vietnam's ports and carried the war to the enemy, victory could have been relatively quick. However, the risk of Chinese involvement was too great. Memories of Korea were fresh in everyone's minds, and so Vietnam was fought in such a way as to avoid "another Korea." That's why Vietnam became, well, Vietnam. But Iraq is not Vietnam. Nor is the Iraq campaign even the whole war. Of course there's still fighting going on. Our war is against terrorist-sponsoring states, and just because we toppled the governments of two of them doesn't mean that the others aren't still sponsoring terrorism. Also, there is a substantial region in Iraq where Saddam's forces are still finding support for a diehard guerrilla campaign. In other words, the Iraq campaign isn't over--and President Bush has explicitly said so all along. So the continuation of combat and casualties isn't a "failure" or a "quagmire," it's a "war." And during a war, patriotic Americans don't blame the deaths on our government. We blame them on the enemy that persists in trying to kill our soldiers. Am I saying that critics of the war aren't patriotic? Not at all--I'm a critic of some aspects of the war. What I'm saying is that those who try to paint the bleakest, most anti-American, and most anti-Bush picture of the war, whose purpose is not criticism but deception in order to gain temporary political advantage, those people are indeed not patriotic. They have placed their own or their party's political gain ahead of the national struggle to destroy the power base of the terrorists who attacked Americans abroad and on American soil. Patriots place their loyalty to their country in time of war ahead of their personal and party ambitions. And they can wrap themselves in the flag and say they "support our troops" all they like--but it doesn't change the fact that their program is to promote our defeat at the hands of our enemies for their temporary political advantage. Think what it will mean if we elect a Democratic candidate who has committed himself to an antiwar posture in order to get his party's nomination. Our enemies will be certain that they are winning the war on the battleground that matters--American public opinion. So they will continue to kill Americans wherever and whenever they can, because it works. Our soldiers will lose heart, because they will know that their commander in chief is a man who is not committed to winning the war they have risked death in order to fight. When the commander in chief is willing to call victory defeat in order to win an election, his soldiers can only assume that their lives will be thrown away for nothing. That's when an army, filled with despair, becomes beatable even by inferior forces. When did we lose the Vietnam War? Not in 1968, when we held an election that hinged on the war. None of the three candidates (Humphrey, Nixon, Wallace) were committed to unilateral withdrawal. Not during Nixon's "Vietnamization" program, in which more and more of the war effort was turned over to Vietnamese troops. In fact, Vietnamization, by all measures I know about, worked. We lost the war when the Democrat-controlled Congress specifically banned all military aid to South Vietnam, and a beleaguered Republican president signed it into law. With Russia and China massively supplying North Vietnam, and Saigon forced to buy pathetic quantities of ammunition and spare parts on the open market because America had cut off all aid, the imbalance doomed them, and they knew it. The South Vietnamese people were subjected to a murderous totalitarian government (and the Hmong people of the Vietnamese mountains were victims of near-genocide) because the U.S. Congress deliberately cut off military aid--even after almost all our soldiers were home and the Vietnamese were doing the fighting themselves. That wasn't about "peace," that was about political posturing and an indecent lack of honor. Is that where we're headed again? This time an enemy attacked civilian targets on our soil. The enemy--a conspiracy of terrorists sponsored by a dozen or so nations and unable to function without their aid--was hard to attack directly; so the only feasible strategy was to remove, by force if necessary, the governments that sheltered and sponsored terrorism. I would not have chosen Afghanistan and Iraq to start with; Syria, Iran, Sudan and Libya were much more culpable and militarily more important to neutralize as sponsors of terror. (They say that Libya and Sudan have changed their tune lately, but I have my doubts.) But once we chose Afghanistan and Iraq, once we began a serious campaign, we must continue the war until we achieve our objective, which is to remove all the governments that sponsor terror, or convince the remaining sponsors of terror to absolutely, thoroughly, and completely reverse their policy and actively seek out and destroy all terrorists that once had safe harbor within their borders. Anything less, and all our effort--all those American lives--were wasted. And in the midst of this global struggle, when both parties should have united, disagreeing at times about methods and priorities, but never about the steadfast will of the American people to see the war through to a successful conclusion, we find that the candidates of the party out of power are attacking the president for fighting the war at all, and are calling the war itself a "failure" even though there is no rational measure by which it can be said to have failed--especially since we're still fighting it. In a war, the enemy probes for weaknesses, and always finds some. When they find a weakness in your positions, they teach you where it is by attacking there; then you learn, and strengthen that point or avoid that mistake. Meanwhile, you constantly probe the enemy for weakness. The result is that even when you are overwhelmingly victorious, the enemy still finds ways to inflict damage along the way. The goal of our troops in Iraq is not to protect themselves so completely that none of our soldiers die. The goal of our troops is to destroy the enemy, some of whom you do not find except when they emerge to attack our forces and, yes, sometimes inflict casualties. Our national media are covering this war as if we were "losing the peace"--even though we are not at peace and we are not losing. Why are they doing this? Because they are desperate to spin the world situation in such a way as to bring down President Bush. It's not just the war, of course. Notice that even though our recent recession began under President Clinton, the media invariably refer to it as if Mr. Bush had caused it; and even though by every measure, the recession is over, they still cover it as if the American economy were in desperate shape. This is the same trick they played on the first President Bush, for his recession was also over before the election--but the media worked very hard to conceal it from the American public. They did it as they're doing it now, with yes-but coverage: Yes, the economy is growing again, but there aren't any new jobs. Yes, there are new jobs now, but they're not good jobs. And that's how they're covering the war. Yes, the Taliban were toppled, but there are still guerrillas fighting against us in various regions of Afghanistan. (As if anyone ever expected anything else.) Yes, Saddam was driven out of power incredibly quickly and with scant loss of life on either side, but our forces were not adequately prepared to do all the nonmilitary jobs that devolved on them as an occupying army. Ultimately, the outcome of this war is going to depend more on the American people than anything that happens on the battlefield. Are we going to be suckered again the way we were in 1992, when we allowed ourselves to be deceived about our own recent history and current events? We are being lied to and "spun," and not in a trivial way. The kind of dishonest vitriolic hate campaign that in 2000 was conducted only before black audiences is now being played on the national stage; and the national media, instead of holding the liars' and haters' feet to the fire (as they do when the liars and haters are Republicans or conservatives), are cooperating in building up a false image of a failing economy and a lost war, when the truth is more nearly the exact opposite. And in all the campaign rhetoric, I keep looking, as a Democrat, for a single candidate who is actually offering a significant improvement over the Republican policies that in fact don't work, while supporting or improving upon the American policies that will help make us and our children secure against terrorists. We have enemies that have earned our hatred, and whom we should fear. They are fanatical terrorists who seek opportunities to kill American civilians here and Israeli civilians in Israel. But right now, our national media and the Democratic Party are trying to get us to believe that the people we should hate and fear are George W. Bush and the Republicans. I can think of many, many reasons why the Republicans should not control both houses of Congress and the White House. But right now, if the alternative is the Democratic Party as led in Congress and as exemplified by the current candidates for the Democratic nomination, then I can't be the only Democrat who will, with great reluctance, vote not just for George W. Bush, but also for every other candidate of the only party that seems committed to fighting abroad to destroy the enemies that seek to kill us and our friends at home. And if we elect a government that subverts or weakens or ends our war against terrorism, we can count on this: We will soon face enemies that will make 9/11 look like stubbing our toe, and they will attack us with the confidence and determination that come from knowing that we don't have the will to sustain a war all the way to the end. Mr. Card is a science fiction writer. This article first appeared in the Rhinoceros Times of Greensboro, N.C. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

2003-12-17 01:13:21-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"forge" <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote in message news:e6gvtvksqsgja8bs5votli36siqnkn8drm@4ax.com... > On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 00:21:11 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > >If your gonna quote from a thread and respond you should try > >maintain the thread so its context is preserved and understandable. > > I only quote what's pertinent. No sane person wants to read 200 lines > of inane babble and "greater than" signs with 10 or 20 more lines of > fresh bullshit added in. well that would explain why you don't quote properly, you just search for something to troll on and ignore everything else. Thanks, for picking me to add your bullshit to.

2003-12-17 01:18:36-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"forge" <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote in message news:v8gvtv4qosrs9e9gclhjmefhf95h8otdfe@4ax.com... > On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 00:21:43 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > >> >The people who do things like 9-11 aren't the sort of people you send > >> >the army after. It's the FBI that's waging that "war" and they aren't > >> >invading Iraq. They're hard at work finding terrorists. > >> > >> An' more power to 'em. In fact, channel more funding to THEM and take > >> down the fricking huge war machine a few notches. > > > >bad idea, but not a surprise. > > Why would funding covert ops be such a bad idea? Why is stuffing money > into the pockets of the CEOs of defense contractors a good idea? Another missed point Intentional? FBI is domestic, merely waiting for the bad guys to be here trying to kill us is a bad idea. Covert ops are part of our "War Machine". Castrate our armed forces to the point where they can't do an operation like IRAQ on thier own and you simply encourage the status quo ante.

2003-12-17 01:20:27-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"forge" <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote in message news:fjgvtvk9povtat3v2ddim73jr75n12291g@4ax.com... > On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:46:03 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > >> Sadaam Hussein couldn't organize a frickin' tea party for a > >> fourth-grader. > > > >lol, whatever i think I'm done taking you seriously > > Well good, I never took YOU seriously. Thats obvious, and this is my last reply to you, Kill Filed.

2003-12-17 01:25:07-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-FFF145.22084116122003@news.west.earthlink.net... > > Anyway I agree, the UN is swiftly closing in on total > > inconsequentiality in this world - which is why it's absurd to call > > out Saddam for ignoring them. Everbody ignores them, including us. But > > you know that already. > > Yeah, but if the rest of the world (read: Europe) wants to put so much > stock in the "international community", then they can't complain when we > point out that the international community had spoken-- something like > 15 times. Of course they do, they are on the road to being one country and contending for superpower with respectable military might, But the UN allows them to swing many more votes than the US. GB is resisting the move, maintaining thier own currency still IIRC.

2003-12-17 04:07:17+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <umgvtvcv2r7gq70m4mte4j1u3qllsqf4fk@4ax.com>, forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com> wrote: > On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 03:59:48 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > wrote: > > >> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:57:58 GMT, "Buckaroo Banzai" > >> <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > >> >And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam > >> >thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being > >> >held accountable. > >> > >> Like how you only give a fuck about UN resolutions when it's > >> convenient > > > >No, I'm pretty much consistent in that I've never given a fuck about the > >UN or its resolutions. > > Heh. I was sorta addressing Buckaroo there BTR. I see an extra set of > chevrons though, maybe we lost attribution in my overzealous snippage. > > Anyway I agree, the UN is swiftly closing in on total > inconsequentiality in this world - which is why it's absurd to call > out Saddam for ignoring them. Everbody ignores them, including us. But > you know that already. Yeah, but if the rest of the world (read: Europe) wants to put so much stock in the "international community", then they can't complain when we point out that the international community had spoken-- something like 15 times.

2003-12-17 07:39:21-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:13:21 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: >> >If your gonna quote from a thread and respond you should try >> >maintain the thread so its context is preserved and understandable. >> >> I only quote what's pertinent. No sane person wants to read 200 lines >> of inane babble and "greater than" signs with 10 or 20 more lines of >> fresh bullshit added in. > >well that would explain why you don't quote properly, you just search >for something to troll on and ignore everything else. Honestly (and if you'd ever seen any of my earlier posts going back to the beginning of this group and the Buffy group, you'd know this), I try to be pertinent and not misquote and NOT pick one paragraph out of a post to pick on. And I was afraid I'd get this exact reaction from you because really I agreed with a lot of what you're saying. So for the misquoting or mis-editing, I apologize.

2003-12-17 07:44:30-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:20:27 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: >> >> Sadaam Hussein couldn't organize a frickin' tea party for a >> >> fourth-grader. >> > >> >lol, whatever i think I'm done taking you seriously >> >> Well good, I never took YOU seriously. > >Thats obvious, and this is my last reply to you, > >Kill Filed. Bummer, now he'll never see my apology. Oh well, sucks to be an asshole. He started it.

2003-12-17 07:47:09-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:18:36 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: >> >> >The people who do things like 9-11 aren't the sort of people you send >> >> >the army after. It's the FBI that's waging that "war" and they aren't >> >> >invading Iraq. They're hard at work finding terrorists. >> >> >> >> An' more power to 'em. In fact, channel more funding to THEM and take >> >> down the fricking huge war machine a few notches. >> > >> >bad idea, but not a surprise. >> >> Why would funding covert ops be such a bad idea? Why is stuffing money >> into the pockets of the CEOs of defense contractors a good idea? > >Another missed point Intentional? > >FBI is domestic, merely waiting for the bad guys to be here trying to >kill us is a bad idea. Covert ops are part of our "War Machine". Hmm, good point. I used the phrase "War Machine" though because I specifically meant non-covert operations mit der planes and tanks and guns and dudes with rifles. Covert operations that are under the auspices of the armed services are fine with me. >Castrate our armed forces to the point where they can't do an operation like >IRAQ on thier own and you simply encourage the status quo ante. I didn't want to defund them completely, I just think the size of operations like that is maybe a little on the overblown side.

2003-12-17 08:38:10-05:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (forge <forge@diespammersdie.youneedageek.com>)


On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:30:11 -0500, EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >I'm pretty sure you won't agree with the following article but this is a >take from a Democrat who says sometimes his fellow Democrats ARE >unpatriotic. And it works both ways too. Some of the same arguments used >against Bush now were used against Clinton while he was bombing the former >Yugoslavia in to submission. Why wasn't he in Africa going after those bent >on genocide for instance. > >Anyway, here's the link >http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110004435 Well, I didn't have time to read it completely, I have to be at the office in an hour, but what I saw, I agree with. In case you hadn't noticed I'm not all that happy with *either* party, in fact after the Clinton debacle I quit the Democratic party and joined the Libertarians. I think a lot of the posturing on the part of Dem candidtates is bordering on treasonous, in fact. Still convinced Dubya's only in office to stuff the pockets of the rich people that put him there of course... but I'm not sure a Dem president would be the slightest bit different.

2003-12-22 09:23:44-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"Mad Hamish" <h_laws@aardvark.net.au> wrote in message news:vvrduvkeai6cdb6arf43jhg7mi3f8dg1h0@4ax.com... > On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:59:26 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > > > >"Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message > >news:postmaster-7CFEDF.00080915122003@corp.supernews.com... > >> In article <ah3Db.2369$mC1.854@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, > >> Lots of nations thumb their noses at the UN, hell we do it all the time. > >> I'd rather we spent American lives and money on bringing to justice > >> those who waged war against us on American soil than on someone who was > >> caged and contained. > > > >That seems hopelessly optomistic to me. For all we know > >Sadaam funded the idea, but i admit we can't proove it. > > Ah, so now guilty until proven innocenct applies. Sadaam was/is guilty of plenty of other stuff. He should have been removed long ago. To the extent we stood by while he massacred his people the whole world is guilty of allowing it to continue as long as we did. This of course is not the only place where this is true. > I guess seeing as you can't prove that you didn't > contribute towards the attack it would be fair enough > to shoot you... If you can proove I've intentionally Killed anyone sure. The Sadaam Regime is believed to have killed 300,000 - 1 million+ citizens of Iraq in his efforts to remain in power. That doesn't include the deaths of his military in his wars, or the dead Iranians. > > > >Don't kid yourself though, Afganistan and Iraq actions are > >fighting the people who attacked us. > > Provide proof that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 Any nation that is happy that the attack took place is a supporter of the attack on the US. Iraq is one of the very few if not the only nation that didn't publicly condemn the attack. Even if they are not directly involved with the funding of that attack, they are responsible for funding other terror attacks, If by nothing else than paying off families after the fact. Where are the Jihadist going to fight? why they are going into Iraq to attack the US soldiers. They are attacking nations friendly to the US like Turkey, and Saudia Arabia. Some have Come here, but these have been caught so far. > > It is changing the > >dynamic of the region. It is sending clear messages that if > >the NATIONS that have allowed/ignored/funded/trained > >the TERROR GROUPS that they will be judged with the > >terrorists. > > > >If we succeed in Iraq, then Saudi Arabia loses considerable > >importance to the US (as our only supposed Arab ally of > >consequence). This will (and has) force the SA leadership > >to Reevaluate what they do because then the US will be in > >a credible position to act otherwise to SA. > > > > > >Lets also look at IRAN, who has suddenly decided to > >comply with non proliferation treaties lest they are next. > > Might have something to do with Iraq not being an issue > now..You know the country that the USA supported when > they were fighting Iran... That was the whole point, the US being in that region with a new resolve has forced them to reevaluate and moderate thier positions. Iraq was not the only reason for thier nuclear program supported by the French. They still share a border with pakistan who has nuclear weapons. Obtaining nuclear weapons is still a prestige and power issue for Iran, we'll see how committed they are to the new way of doing things. Remember the Axis of Evil Speach? Don't kid yourself into thinking that the Iranian leaders have disreguarded it. Iran wants off that list, They have seen what happened in Iraq. The same is true of Syria, who has become much more moderate in thier public positions of late.

2003-12-23 00:23:36+11:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Mad Hamish <h_laws@aardvark.net.au>)


On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:59:26 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > >"Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message >news:postmaster-7CFEDF.00080915122003@corp.supernews.com... >> In article <ah3Db.2369$mC1.854@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, >> "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > "NickKnight" <NickKnightSTILLNOSPAMonFK@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> > news:4ceptvkspo7mm7v0rafea8s0r445ugrhip@4ax.com... >> > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 17:57:50 GMT, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > >For some people the glass is *always* half empty. >> > > For some of us we still remember 9/11 and that >> > > OBL was behind it not SH. >> > >> > And for some others of us, we still remember that for 12 years Saddam >> > thumbed his nose at the U.N. Resolutions and now he is finally being >held >> > accountable. >> >> Lots of nations thumb their noses at the UN, hell we do it all the time. >> I'd rather we spent American lives and money on bringing to justice >> those who waged war against us on American soil than on someone who was >> caged and contained. > >That seems hopelessly optomistic to me. For all we know >Sadaam funded the idea, but i admit we can't proove it. Ah, so now guilty until proven innocenct applies. I guess seeing as you can't prove that you didn't contribute towards the attack it would be fair enough to shoot you... > >Don't kid yourself though, Afganistan and Iraq actions are >fighting the people who attacked us. Provide proof that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 > It is changing the >dynamic of the region. It is sending clear messages that if >the NATIONS that have allowed/ignored/funded/trained >the TERROR GROUPS that they will be judged with the >terrorists. > >If we succeed in Iraq, then Saudi Arabia loses considerable >importance to the US (as our only supposed Arab ally of >consequence). This will (and has) force the SA leadership >to Reevaluate what they do because then the US will be in >a credible position to act otherwise to SA. > >Lets also look at IRAN, who has suddenly decided to >comply with non proliferation treaties lest they are next. Might have something to do with Iraq not being an issue now..You know the country that the USA supported when they were fighting Iran... > >Or maybe we should look at Syria who has become less >strident in thier approach to the US, and rumor has it has >been helping with intel and trying to really control it's >borders. -- "Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by." Stuart Adamson 1958-2001 Mad Hamish Hamish Laws h_laws@aardvark.net.au

2003-12-26 18:41:16+00:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Jay <Justinee@home.com>)


"Alicat" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:qp3stvop5r1jhapftpvb0kmbhg6oo44l5t@4ax.com... > I'm not Irish, and I *love* Irish folk music, so please don't use that > as an example of "torture". I vote for 24 hours a day of accordian > music, especially polkas. Its already been tested in various circles > of hell and has the BadHouseKeeping(TM) seal of approval! Ahh, but I was raised in a Doukhobor house and my grandaddy played a mean accordian. Please don't taint that. -Jay -- "[Robert Smith's] music makes you cry, even if you haven't broken up with your girlfriend or ran over a kitty in the road and deep fried it in your oven for lunch."

2004-01-07 17:28:05-06:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"Mad Hamish" <h_laws@aardvark.net.au> wrote in message news:8prnvvknqtrlrnbujgt6fvpqdors5u2t5i@4ax.com... > On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:23:44 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > > > > >"Mad Hamish" <h_laws@aardvark.net.au> wrote in message > >news:vvrduvkeai6cdb6arf43jhg7mi3f8dg1h0@4ax.com... > >> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:59:26 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" > >> <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >"Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message > >> >news:postmaster-7CFEDF.00080915122003@corp.supernews.com... > >> >> In article <ah3Db.2369$mC1.854@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, > > > >> >> Lots of nations thumb their noses at the UN, hell we do it all the > >time. > >> >> I'd rather we spent American lives and money on bringing to justice > >> >> those who waged war against us on American soil than on someone who was > >> >> caged and contained. > >> > > >> >That seems hopelessly optomistic to me. For all we know > >> >Sadaam funded the idea, but i admit we can't proove it. > >> > >> Ah, so now guilty until proven innocenct applies. > > > >Sadaam was/is guilty of plenty of other stuff. He should have > >been removed long ago. > > What, you mean while the USA was supplying him with weapons to fight > Iran? Certainly early signs of concern began there. I don't have the timeline for when he gassed the kurds. > > To the extent we stood by while he > >massacred his people the whole world is guilty of allowing > >it to continue as long as we did. This of course is not the only > >place where this is true. > > Nor is he anywhere near the worst for it. never suggested it was, but it was bigger than say Bosnia. Perhaps not as bad as Rhuanda. > >> I guess seeing as you can't prove that you didn't > >> contribute towards the attack it would be fair enough > >> to shoot you... > > > >If you can proove I've intentionally Killed anyone sure. > >The Sadaam Regime is believed to have killed 300,000 - > >1 million+ citizens of Iraq in his efforts to remain in power. > >That doesn't include the deaths of his military in his wars, > >or the dead Iranians. > > Irrelevant to the actual charges that were used to justify the > invasion. Which charges? Many were leveled, IMO many justified the action. You can ignore the rest and concentrate on WMD's all you want, doesn't make them less valid. Also the entire aparatus was there for Rapid reimplementation of the chemical program. not to mention the mobile labs etc... > >> >Don't kid yourself though, Afganistan and Iraq actions are > >> >fighting the people who attacked us. > >> > >> Provide proof that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 > > > >Any nation that is happy that the attack took place is a > >supporter of the attack on the US. Iraq is one of the > >very few if not the only nation that didn't publicly condemn > >the attack. Even if they are not directly involved with the > >funding of that attack, > > So in other words you can't prove that they had anything to do with > the attack on the USA, so the claim that 'iraq actions are fighting > the people who attacked us' is highly dodgy. no, because Al-Queda personel and sypathizers are going there to attack the troops. Also Al-Queda had a camp in Iraq, and many in Afganistan. > > they are responsible for funding > >other terror attacks, If by nothing else than paying off > >families after the fact. > > Mugabe has organised attacks on people. The USA government has funded > people involved in similar things. > > > >Where are the Jihadist going to fight? why they are going > >into Iraq to attack the US soldiers. They are attacking > >nations friendly to the US like Turkey, and Saudia Arabia. > >Some have Come here, but these have been caught so far. > > > >> > It is changing the > >> >dynamic of the region. It is sending clear messages that if > >> >the NATIONS that have allowed/ignored/funded/trained > >> >the TERROR GROUPS that they will be judged with the > >> >terrorists. > >> > > >> >If we succeed in Iraq, then Saudi Arabia loses considerable > >> >importance to the US (as our only supposed Arab ally of > >> >consequence). This will (and has) force the SA leadership > >> >to Reevaluate what they do because then the US will be in > >> >a credible position to act otherwise to SA. > >> > >> > >> > > >> >Lets also look at IRAN, who has suddenly decided to > >> >comply with non proliferation treaties lest they are next. > >> > >> Might have something to do with Iraq not being an issue > >> now..You know the country that the USA supported when > >> they were fighting Iran... > > > >That was the whole point, the US being in that region with > >a new resolve has forced them to reevaluate and moderate > >thier positions. Iraq was not the only reason for thier nuclear > >program supported by the French. They still share a border > >with pakistan who has nuclear weapons. Obtaining nuclear > >weapons is still a prestige and power issue for Iran, we'll > >see how committed they are to the new way of doing things. > > So the basic argument is "we have the big guns and anybody we don't > like we'll threaten" Not quite, but that has always been part of foriegn policy of all nations. That is the policy of every terrorist organization that sets a bomb. That is the policy of Domestic police forces in every country around the world. Here is the line. Cross it at your peril. When you have no line, you get walked on. Oil field Nationalization, Tehran hostages, Achilli Laural (spelling), Lebanon Marine Barracks, Kuwait, Somalia, USS Cole, WTC. All told a history of impotent policy in the middle east since Vietnam. > >Remember the Axis of Evil Speach? Don't kid yourself > >into thinking that the Iranian leaders have disreguarded it. > >Iran wants off that list, They have seen what happened > >in Iraq. The same is true of Syria, who has become much > >more moderate in thier public positions of late. > -- > "Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by." > Stuart Adamson 1958-2001 > > Mad Hamish > Hamish Laws > h_laws@aardvark.net.au Not sure if that is a Sig or a rebuttal, but if a rebuttal than I have to say it is right and wrong in this instance. Our misson is one of optimism and hope that we can effect a major democratic change in that region without laying it all to waste. But it is not the type of hope found while dreaming. Rather it is grounded in the well recognized threat to our survival the current situation has become. Succeed or Fail in Iraq we are at least making an Honest effort to improve things at the end of our reign as a superpower. We are the current front man, as Europe surpasses us in the coming decades they will become the fall guy and no longer have the luxury of hiding in our shadow. Assuming of course anyone can see around china.

2004-01-07 22:38:19+11:00 - Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Captured!!!! - (Mad Hamish <h_laws@aardvark.net.au>)


On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 09:23:44 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: > >"Mad Hamish" <h_laws@aardvark.net.au> wrote in message >news:vvrduvkeai6cdb6arf43jhg7mi3f8dg1h0@4ax.com... >> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:59:26 -0600, "Thirsty Viking" >> <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net> wrote: >> >> > >> >"Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message >> >news:postmaster-7CFEDF.00080915122003@corp.supernews.com... >> >> In article <ah3Db.2369$mC1.854@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, > >> >> Lots of nations thumb their noses at the UN, hell we do it all the >time. >> >> I'd rather we spent American lives and money on bringing to justice >> >> those who waged war against us on American soil than on someone who was >> >> caged and contained. >> > >> >That seems hopelessly optomistic to me. For all we know >> >Sadaam funded the idea, but i admit we can't proove it. >> >> Ah, so now guilty until proven innocenct applies. > >Sadaam was/is guilty of plenty of other stuff. He should have >been removed long ago. What, you mean while the USA was supplying him with weapons to fight Iran? > To the extent we stood by while he >massacred his people the whole world is guilty of allowing >it to continue as long as we did. This of course is not the only >place where this is true. Nor is he anywhere near the worst for it. > >> I guess seeing as you can't prove that you didn't >> contribute towards the attack it would be fair enough >> to shoot you... > >If you can proove I've intentionally Killed anyone sure. >The Sadaam Regime is believed to have killed 300,000 - >1 million+ citizens of Iraq in his efforts to remain in power. >That doesn't include the deaths of his military in his wars, >or the dead Iranians. Irrelevant to the actual charges that were used to justify the invasion. > >> > >> >Don't kid yourself though, Afganistan and Iraq actions are >> >fighting the people who attacked us. >> >> Provide proof that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 > >Any nation that is happy that the attack took place is a >supporter of the attack on the US. Iraq is one of the >very few if not the only nation that didn't publicly condemn >the attack. Even if they are not directly involved with the >funding of that attack, So in other words you can't prove that they had anything to do with the attack on the USA, so the claim that 'iraq actions are fighting the people who attacked us' is highly dodgy. > they are responsible for funding >other terror attacks, If by nothing else than paying off >families after the fact. Mugabe has organised attacks on people. The USA government has funded people involved in similar things. > >Where are the Jihadist going to fight? why they are going >into Iraq to attack the US soldiers. They are attacking >nations friendly to the US like Turkey, and Saudia Arabia. >Some have Come here, but these have been caught so far. > >> > It is changing the >> >dynamic of the region. It is sending clear messages that if >> >the NATIONS that have allowed/ignored/funded/trained >> >the TERROR GROUPS that they will be judged with the >> >terrorists. >> > >> >If we succeed in Iraq, then Saudi Arabia loses considerable >> >importance to the US (as our only supposed Arab ally of >> >consequence). This will (and has) force the SA leadership >> >to Reevaluate what they do because then the US will be in >> >a credible position to act otherwise to SA. >> >> >> > >> >Lets also look at IRAN, who has suddenly decided to >> >comply with non proliferation treaties lest they are next. >> >> Might have something to do with Iraq not being an issue >> now..You know the country that the USA supported when >> they were fighting Iran... > >That was the whole point, the US being in that region with >a new resolve has forced them to reevaluate and moderate >thier positions. Iraq was not the only reason for thier nuclear >program supported by the French. They still share a border >with pakistan who has nuclear weapons. Obtaining nuclear >weapons is still a prestige and power issue for Iran, we'll >see how committed they are to the new way of doing things. So the basic argument is "we have the big guns and anybody we don't like we'll threaten" > >Remember the Axis of Evil Speach? Don't kid yourself >into thinking that the Iranian leaders have disreguarded it. >Iran wants off that list, They have seen what happened >in Iraq. The same is true of Syria, who has become much >more moderate in thier public positions of late. -- "Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by." Stuart Adamson 1958-2001 Mad Hamish Hamish Laws h_laws@aardvark.net.au