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2004-03-22 15:39:43-08:00 - Casting side for episode 5.21 - (reldevik@usa.net)


S P A C E The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. She comes to Angel's office wanting W&H to help her play dirty tricks on an opponent running against her for her Senate seat. She has dealt with W&H since the days of Holland Manners and expects the same kind of services. Her aide, Ernesto, is a vampire. Angel can sense this. She laughs and says she believes in diversity on her staff. She wants to do a smear campaign against her opponent, Mike Conley, to convince the public he's a pedophile. She also wants W&H to brainwash him into believing he actually is a pedophile. Gunn starts to tell her indignantly that they don't do that sort of thing any more, but Angel cuts him off and says he'll help Senator Brucker. When Gunn continues to object, Angel orders him out of the room. Brucker reappears later, but first, some fragments of other scenes. In one, Spike is talking to Illyria. Illyria says "he" (presumably Wesley) won't have any more to do with her because he doesn't like her "emulating the shell," i.e., imitating Fred. Illyria doesn't understand why this bothers Wes so much. Spike says that even though she believes she isn't as powerful as she used to be, for some people her resemblance to Fred is the most frightening power she has. Then there's a short bit of Wes looking at books about some species of demon--Boretz or something like that. He seems to have found something he's been looking for. Then there's the other Brucker scene. It takes place at a demony party or social event where Archduke Sebassis is in attendance. Brucker is there too. Angel enters and Sebassis congratulates him on returning to his old ways. Sebassis calls him Angelus. Angel says he still uses the name Angel, but when it's insinuated that he is evil again he doesn't deny it--he implies he is. I don't know whether Angel really has gone evil or is just playing along as part of some plan with beneficial motives. But in the office scene, Gunn seemed genuinely bewildered that Angel would go along with what Brucker wanted. I don't think Gunn was just acting. So if Angel is still good and has some sort of secret plan, I don't think Gunn is in on it. Clairel

2004-03-22 21:51:07-06:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com>)


reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in news:1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4 @posting.google.com: > S > > > P > > > A > > > C > > > E > > > > The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. She comes to Angel's > office wanting W&H to help her play dirty tricks on an opponent > running against her for her Senate seat. She has dealt with W&H since > the days of Holland Manners and expects the same kind of services. Her > aide, Ernesto, is a vampire. Angel can sense this. She laughs and says > she believes in diversity on her staff. She wants to do a smear > campaign against her opponent, Mike Conley, to convince the public > he's a pedophile. She also wants W&H to brainwash him into believing > he actually is a pedophile. Damn. That's got to be one of the most awful things I've ever heard -- discrediting your opponent by actually turning him into a pedophile. Sounds like an eventful episode, though. Surely I'm not alone in suspecting that Angel is pretending to turn so that he can gather these big-deal evil beings together and neutralize/destroy them all with one blow. Which suggests that Angel may be burning his bridges at W&H. Hmm. I wonder if the text's statement will ultimately be that you *can't* successfully reform the system from within... And I also wonder: if that bridge does go down in flames, will Our Heroes have the courage to make sure that Harmony is on it? Alternate possibility -- what if Angel's plan ends up being the opposite of what the Senator proposes earlier in the episode? That is, what if he's gathering all these evil beings together so that he can brainwash *them* into not doing evil anymore? Just a thought... -- Lord Usher "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."

2004-03-23 10:59:26+00:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


>Subject: Casting side for episode 5.21 >From: reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) >Date: 3/22/2004 3:39 PM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4@posting.google.com> > >S > > >P > > >A > > >C > > >E > > > >The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. Frau Brucker! (WHINNY!!) Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. This particular sig serves no purpose but to take up space and waste the readers' time.

2004-03-23 12:31:51+00:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - ("R. Watson" <shanovia@earthlink.net>)


"Lord Usher" <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Xns94B4DDF5388E5houseofusher@216.40.28.72... > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in news:1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4 > @posting.google.com: > > > S > > > > > > P > > > > > > A > > > > > > C > > > > > > E > > > > > > > > The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. She comes to Angel's > > office wanting W&H to help her play dirty tricks on an opponent > > running against her for her Senate seat. She has dealt with W&H since > > the days of Holland Manners and expects the same kind of services. Her > > aide, Ernesto, is a vampire. Angel can sense this. She laughs and says > > she believes in diversity on her staff. She wants to do a smear > > campaign against her opponent, Mike Conley, to convince the public > > he's a pedophile. She also wants W&H to brainwash him into believing > > he actually is a pedophile. > > Damn. That's got to be one of the most awful things I've ever heard -- > discrediting your opponent by actually turning him into a pedophile. > > Sounds like an eventful episode, though. Surely I'm not alone in > suspecting that Angel is pretending to turn so that he can gather these > big-deal evil beings together and neutralize/destroy them all with one > blow. > > Which suggests that Angel may be burning his bridges at W&H. Hmm. I > wonder if the text's statement will ultimately be that you *can't* > successfully reform the system from within... > > And I also wonder: if that bridge does go down in flames, will Our > Heroes have the courage to make sure that Harmony is on it? Not only Harmony but Spike and Lorne as well!

2004-03-23 15:31:48-08:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (Slayah <Slayah@hellmouth.com>)


In article <1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4@posting.google.com>, Clairel says... >The casting side is for snip What is a casting "side"? What does that mean? I hope I'm not the only clueless around here.

2004-03-23 17:53:11+00:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (David Cheatham <david@tg.creeknet.com>)


R. Watson wrote: > > "Lord Usher" <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:Xns94B4DDF5388E5houseofusher@216.40.28.72... > > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in > > news:1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4 @posting.google.com: > > > > > S > > > > > > > > > P > > > > > > > > > A > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > E > > > > > > > > > > > > The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. She comes to > > > Angel's office wanting W&H to help her play dirty tricks on an > > > opponent running against her for her Senate seat. She has dealt > > > with W&H since the days of Holland Manners and expects the same > > > kind of services. Her aide, Ernesto, is a vampire. Angel can > > > sense this. She laughs and says she believes in diversity on her > > > staff. She wants to do a smear campaign against her opponent, > > > Mike Conley, to convince the public he's a pedophile. She also > > > wants W&H to brainwash him into believing he actually is a > > > pedophile. > > > > Damn. That's got to be one of the most awful things I've ever heard > > -- discrediting your opponent by actually turning him into a > > pedophile. > > > > Sounds like an eventful episode, though. Surely I'm not alone in > > suspecting that Angel is pretending to turn so that he can gather > > these big-deal evil beings together and neutralize/destroy them all > > with one blow. > > > > Which suggests that Angel may be burning his bridges at W&H. Hmm. I > > wonder if the text's statement will ultimately be that you *can't* > > successfully reform the system from within... > > > > And I also wonder: if that bridge does go down in flames, will Our > > Heroes have the courage to make sure that Harmony is on it? > > Not only Harmony but Spike and Lorne as well! And what exactly did Spike and Lorne do that they deserve to die? -- My hostname is only the last two parts.

2004-03-24 03:48:00-08:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (barnett@shentel.net)


reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4@posting.google.com>... > S > > > P > > > A > > > C > > > E > > > > The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. She comes to Angel's > office wanting W&H to help her play dirty tricks on an opponent > running against her for her Senate seat. She has dealt with W&H since > the days of Holland Manners and expects the same kind of services. Her > aide, Ernesto, is a vampire. Angel can sense this. She laughs and says > she believes in diversity on her staff. She wants to do a smear > campaign against her opponent, Mike Conley, to convince the public > he's a pedophile. She also wants W&H to brainwash him into believing > he actually is a pedophile. Gunn starts to tell her indignantly that > they don't do that sort of thing any more, but Angel cuts him off and > says he'll help Senator Brucker. When Gunn continues to object, Angel > orders him out of the room. > pedophalia and bashing the government. Well, I suppose controversy is a way to boost ratings. JLB

2004-03-24 15:18:02+00:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - ("R. Watson" <shanovia@earthlink.net>)


"David Cheatham" <david@tg.creeknet.com> wrote in message news:xn0dg2kma18cazq002@news.individual.de... > R. Watson wrote: > > > > > "Lord Usher" <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:Xns94B4DDF5388E5houseofusher@216.40.28.72... > > > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in > > > news:1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4 @posting.google.com: > > > > > > > S > > > > > > > > > > > > P > > > > > > > > > > > > A > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > E > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. She comes to > > > > Angel's office wanting W&H to help her play dirty tricks on an > > > > opponent running against her for her Senate seat. She has dealt > > > > with W&H since the days of Holland Manners and expects the same > > > > kind of services. Her aide, Ernesto, is a vampire. Angel can > > > > sense this. She laughs and says she believes in diversity on her > > > > staff. She wants to do a smear campaign against her opponent, > > > > Mike Conley, to convince the public he's a pedophile. She also > > > > wants W&H to brainwash him into believing he actually is a > > > > pedophile. > > > > > > Damn. That's got to be one of the most awful things I've ever heard > > > -- discrediting your opponent by actually turning him into a > > > pedophile. > > > > > > Sounds like an eventful episode, though. Surely I'm not alone in > > > suspecting that Angel is pretending to turn so that he can gather > > > these big-deal evil beings together and neutralize/destroy them all > > > with one blow. > > > > > > Which suggests that Angel may be burning his bridges at W&H. Hmm. I > > > wonder if the text's statement will ultimately be that you *can't* > > > successfully reform the system from within... > > > > > > And I also wonder: if that bridge does go down in flames, will Our > > > Heroes have the courage to make sure that Harmony is on it? > > > > Not only Harmony but Spike and Lorne as well! > > And what exactly did Spike and Lorne do that they deserve to die? If I start listing stuff I could be here for months!

2004-03-24 15:38:26-08:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (reldevik@usa.net)


barnett@shentel.net (JLB) wrote in message news:<c7b2ff96.0403240348.7141136b@posting.google.com>... > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4@posting.google.com>... > > S > > > > > > P > > > > > > A > > > > > > C > > > > > > E > > > > > > > > The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. She comes to Angel's > > office wanting W&H to help her play dirty tricks on an opponent > > running against her for her Senate seat. She has dealt with W&H since > > the days of Holland Manners and expects the same kind of services. Her > > aide, Ernesto, is a vampire. Angel can sense this. She laughs and says > > she believes in diversity on her staff. She wants to do a smear > > campaign against her opponent, Mike Conley, to convince the public > > he's a pedophile. She also wants W&H to brainwash him into believing > > he actually is a pedophile. Gunn starts to tell her indignantly that > > they don't do that sort of thing any more, but Angel cuts him off and > > says he'll help Senator Brucker. When Gunn continues to object, Angel > > orders him out of the room. > > > pedophalia and bashing the government. Well, I suppose controversy is > a way to boost ratings. --So, the existence of one unscrupulous senator who engages in dirty tricks is "bashing the government" to you? Anyone who doesn't realize there are a few bad apples in the bunch is hopelessly naive. If something like Wolfram and Hart, with all its powers and capabilities, existed in the real world, do you really think there'd be no politicos who would take advantage of W&H's services in their election campaigns? This is the Buffyverse we're talking about, where magic and demonic powers exist. Clairel

2004-03-24 15:40:04-08:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (reldevik@usa.net)


"R. Watson" <shanovia@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<X6W7c.53392$aT1.220@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>... > "Lord Usher" <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:Xns94B4DDF5388E5houseofusher@216.40.28.72... > > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in news:1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4 > > @posting.google.com: > > > > > S > > > > > > > > > P > > > > > > > > > A > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > E > > > > > > > > > > > > The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. She comes to Angel's > > > office wanting W&H to help her play dirty tricks on an opponent > > > running against her for her Senate seat. She has dealt with W&H since > > > the days of Holland Manners and expects the same kind of services. Her > > > aide, Ernesto, is a vampire. Angel can sense this. She laughs and says > > > she believes in diversity on her staff. She wants to do a smear > > > campaign against her opponent, Mike Conley, to convince the public > > > he's a pedophile. She also wants W&H to brainwash him into believing > > > he actually is a pedophile. > > > > Damn. That's got to be one of the most awful things I've ever heard -- > > discrediting your opponent by actually turning him into a pedophile. > > > > Sounds like an eventful episode, though. Surely I'm not alone in > > suspecting that Angel is pretending to turn so that he can gather these > > big-deal evil beings together and neutralize/destroy them all with one > > blow. > > > > Which suggests that Angel may be burning his bridges at W&H. Hmm. I > > wonder if the text's statement will ultimately be that you *can't* > > successfully reform the system from within... > > > > And I also wonder: if that bridge does go down in flames, will Our > > Heroes have the courage to make sure that Harmony is on it? > > Not only Harmony but Spike and Lorne as well! --And why not Angel too, then? What has Spike done that Angel(us) hasn't done? Both Angel and Spike were formerly evil, but are now soulful and repentant. They both (and Lorne too) belong to the category "Our Heroes." Clairel

2004-03-24 15:43:30-08:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (reldevik@usa.net)


Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94B4DDF5388E5houseofusher@216.40.28.72>... > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in news:1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4 > @posting.google.com: > > > S > > > > > > P > > > > > > A > > > > > > C > > > > > > E > > > > > > > > The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. She comes to Angel's > > office wanting W&H to help her play dirty tricks on an opponent > > running against her for her Senate seat. She has dealt with W&H since > > the days of Holland Manners and expects the same kind of services. Her > > aide, Ernesto, is a vampire. Angel can sense this. She laughs and says > > she believes in diversity on her staff. She wants to do a smear > > campaign against her opponent, Mike Conley, to convince the public > > he's a pedophile. She also wants W&H to brainwash him into believing > > he actually is a pedophile. > > Damn. That's got to be one of the most awful things I've ever heard -- > discrediting your opponent by actually turning him into a pedophile. > > Sounds like an eventful episode, though. Surely I'm not alone in > suspecting that Angel is pretending to turn so that he can gather these > big-deal evil beings together and neutralize/destroy them all with one > blow. > > Which suggests that Angel may be burning his bridges at W&H. Hmm. I > wonder if the text's statement will ultimately be that you *can't* > successfully reform the system from within... > > And I also wonder: if that bridge does go down in flames, will Our > Heroes have the courage to make sure that Harmony is on it? --Courage? Is that what it takes to destroy a being who is, if not good, at any rate quite helpful and useful? I think it would make a lot more sense for Angel to make sure that in the end, no matter what happens to W&H, Harmony remains with him and Wesley, so that they can supervise her in future, prevent her from doing harm, and make sure she goes on making herself useful. I see no reason to clamor for Harmony's destruction. Clairel

2004-03-24 15:46:54-08:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (reldevik@usa.net)


There are some details I left out the last time I posted, and google problems have prevented me from adding them till now. They do help in shedding light on what Angel is actually up to in this episode. Scroll down; they're right after the spoiler space: reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4@posting.google.com>... > S > > > P > > > A > > > C > > > E > Sebassis actually says that he and Angel are celebrating their new alliance. And someone else at the party says to Angel that he must have really liked the power juice snack they provided for him. Angel identifies the power juice snack as Drogyn the Battlebrand. Presumably this is the same Drogyn who was the Keeper of the Well in England. So now Angel is drinking his blood(?)(!). Plus, Cyrus Vail is at the party too. Angel is friendly with him and shakes his hand. Vail says something about letting bygones be bygones. Angel says everything worked out for the best (referring to Connor and Sahjahn, I guess). The Drucker dialogue consists of Angel commenting to her about how he didn't realize she was so well-connected (meaning her hanging out with major-league demons). Brucker laughs and says she didn't get this far in the Senate just by taking money from hostile governments around the world. She also says something about trying for the White House in 2008. I hope there isn't anything else I've forgotten, but I think this is it. Clairel > The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. She comes to Angel's > office wanting W&H to help her play dirty tricks on an opponent > running against her for her Senate seat. She has dealt with W&H since > the days of Holland Manners and expects the same kind of services. Her > aide, Ernesto, is a vampire. Angel can sense this. She laughs and says > she believes in diversity on her staff. She wants to do a smear > campaign against her opponent, Mike Conley, to convince the public > he's a pedophile. She also wants W&H to brainwash him into believing > he actually is a pedophile. Gunn starts to tell her indignantly that > they don't do that sort of thing any more, but Angel cuts him off and > says he'll help Senator Brucker. When Gunn continues to object, Angel > orders him out of the room. > > Brucker reappears later, but first, some fragments of other scenes. In > one, Spike is talking to Illyria. Illyria says "he" (presumably > Wesley) won't have any more to do with her because he doesn't like her > "emulating the shell," i.e., imitating Fred. Illyria doesn't > understand why this bothers Wes so much. Spike says that even though > she believes she isn't as powerful as she used to be, for some people > her resemblance to Fred is the most frightening power she has. > > Then there's a short bit of Wes looking at books about some species of > demon--Boretz or something like that. He seems to have found something > he's been looking for. > > Then there's the other Brucker scene. It takes place at a demony party > or social event where Archduke Sebassis is in attendance. Brucker is > there too. Angel enters and Sebassis congratulates him on returning to > his old ways. Sebassis calls him Angelus. Angel says he still uses the > name Angel, but when it's insinuated that he is evil again he doesn't > deny it--he implies he is. > > I don't know whether Angel really has gone evil or is just playing > along as part of some plan with beneficial motives. But in the office > scene, Gunn seemed genuinely bewildered that Angel would go along with > what Brucker wanted. I don't think Gunn was just acting. So if Angel > is still good and has some sort of secret plan, I don't think Gunn is > in on it. > > Clairel

2004-03-24 16:06:22-08:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (reldevik@usa.net)


This is really from Himiko. She asked me to post it for her because she's been having problems posting: reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4@posting.google.com>... > S > > > P > > > A > > > C > > > E > > > Thanks Clairel. I actually responded to this earlier, but Google dumped it, so here's the shorter version: > The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. She comes to Angel's > office wanting W&H to help her play dirty tricks on an opponent > running against her for her Senate seat. She has dealt with W&H since > the days of Holland Manners and expects the same kind of services. Her > aide, Ernesto, is a vampire. Angel can sense this. She laughs and says > she believes in diversity on her staff. She wants to do a smear > campaign against her opponent, Mike Conley, to convince the public > he's a pedophile. She also wants W&H to brainwash him into believing > he actually is a pedophile. Gunn starts to tell her indignantly that > they don't do that sort of thing any more, but Angel cuts him off and > says he'll help Senator Brucker. When Gunn continues to object, Angel > orders him out of the room. Seems a rather minor evil for the penultimate episode, so I'm guessing the focus is on what Angel is up to with it. > Brucker reappears later, but first, some fragments of other scenes. In > one, Spike is talking to Illyria. Illyria says "he" (presumably > Wesley) won't have any more to do with her because he doesn't like her > "emulating the shell," i.e., imitating Fred. Illyria doesn't > understand why this bothers Wes so much. Spike says that even though > she believes she isn't as powerful as she used to be, for some people > her resemblance to Fred is the most frightening power she has. He's probably remembering how it felt to deal with the Buffybot all summer while Buffy was dead. > Then there's a short bit of Wes looking at books about some species of > demon--Boretz or something like that. He seems to have found something > he's been looking for. Why is this a side? Is someone else in the room with him? > Then there's the other Brucker scene. It takes place at a demony party > or social event where Archduke Sebassis is in attendance. Brucker is > there too. Angel enters and Sebassis congratulates him on returning to > his old ways. Sebassis calls him Angelus. Angel says he still uses the > name Angel, but when it's insinuated that he is evil again he doesn't > deny it--he implies he is. Yay, Sebassis. I hope the little wine slave is also present. I like him. Also, it does sound more and more like Angel is playing some complex game, possibly involving the whole prophecy about which side he fights on at the end having some major significance for W&H. This would be a more likely prophecy for them to resolve than the shanshu which has potential for future movies. > I don't know whether Angel really has gone evil or is just playing > along as part of some plan with beneficial motives. But in the office > scene, Gunn seemed genuinely bewildered that Angel would go along with > what Brucker wanted. I don't think Gunn was just acting. So if Angel > is still good and has some sort of secret plan, I don't think Gunn is > in on it. Gunn is linked to the conduit. It may not be possible to tell him anything without it getting back to the SPs any longer. Also, I think we're seeing a trend of Angel on his own again, possibly just with Spike...although I think we'll see a regrouping for the big finale. himiko

2004-03-24 18:27:07+00:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (David Cheatham <david@tg.creeknet.com>)


R. Watson wrote: > > "David Cheatham" <david@tg.creeknet.com> wrote in message > news:xn0dg2kma18cazq002@news.individual.de... > > R. Watson wrote: > > > > > > > > "Lord Usher" <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > news:Xns94B4DDF5388E5houseofusher@216.40.28.72... > > > > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in > > > > news:1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4 @posting.google.com: > > > > > > > > > S > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. She comes to > > > > > Angel's office wanting W&H to help her play dirty tricks on an > > > > > opponent running against her for her Senate seat. She has > > > > > dealt with W&H since the days of Holland Manners and expects > > > > > the same kind of services. Her aide, Ernesto, is a vampire. > > > > > Angel can sense this. She laughs and says she believes in > > > > > diversity on her staff. She wants to do a smear campaign > > > > > against her opponent, Mike Conley, to convince the public > > > > > he's a pedophile. She also wants W&H to brainwash him into > > > > > believing he actually is a pedophile. > > > > > > > > Damn. That's got to be one of the most awful things I've ever > > > > heard -- discrediting your opponent by actually turning him > > > > into a pedophile. > > > > > > > > Sounds like an eventful episode, though. Surely I'm not alone in > > > > suspecting that Angel is pretending to turn so that he can > > > > gather these big-deal evil beings together and > > > > neutralize/destroy them all with one blow. > > > > > > > > Which suggests that Angel may be burning his bridges at W&H. > > > > Hmm. I wonder if the text's statement will ultimately be that > > > > you *can't* successfully reform the system from within... > > > > > > > > And I also wonder: if that bridge does go down in flames, will > > > > Our Heroes have the courage to make sure that Harmony is on it? > > > > > > Not only Harmony but Spike and Lorne as well! > > > > And what exactly did Spike and Lorne do that they deserve to die? > > If I start listing stuff I could be here for months! No, if you *continue* to list stuff, you'd be here for months, possible. Listing a few things won't make you be here for months. -- My hostname is only the last two parts.

2004-03-24 19:21:46-08:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (barnett@shentel.net)


alanesue@aol.com (Alane Sue) wrote in message news:<20040324185909.09636.00000021@mb-m24.aol.com>... > >Subject: Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 > >From: reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) > > >> > S > >> > > >> > > >> > P > >> > > >> > > >> > A > >> > > >> > > >> > C > >> > > >> > > >> > E > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> pedophalia and bashing the government. Well, I suppose controversy is > >> a way to boost ratings. > > > >--So, the existence of one unscrupulous senator who engages in dirty > >tricks is "bashing the government" to you? > > > >Anyone who doesn't realize there are a few bad apples in the bunch is > >hopelessly naive. > > > >If something like Wolfram and Hart, with all its powers and > >capabilities, existed in the real world, do you really think there'd > >be no politicos who would take advantage of W&H's services in their > >election campaigns? This is the Buffyverse we're talking about, where > >magic and demonic powers exist. Honestly. I would think they'd be weeded out. A few gentlemen in black suits with sunglasses approach them. "Sir(or Ma'am) it's come to our attention that you've had dealings with a law firm called Wolfram & Hart. We stongly suggest you cease any interactions with them so that the electoral process can proceed smoothly." We know there are guys out there, like the old Watcher's Council, who are good guys. But still generally very unpleasant. So they could do that sort of stuff. Frankly I don't get the obsession with accusing the gov't of doing evil things. I mean certainly criticisms are valid, but conspiracy theories everywhere. It just seems to me that we think we've got to make up for all the people who live in countries where you can't criticize and bash the gov't. > > Besides that, we already had a Joe Kennedy and > George Sr. reference in "Conviction," when Angel > and the gang were going over the W&H files: > > LORNE > (reading a file) > Hmm, well, this is interesting. Apparently old Joe Kennedy tried to get out of > his deal with the firm. > > ANGEL > That explains a lot. > > LORNE > Yeah, but George, Senior—he read the fine print. There's no one these guys > don't have a piece of. I missed that. JLB

2004-03-24 23:12:04-06:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com>)


reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in news:1faed770.0403241543.2e9abf72@posting.google.com: > Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:<Xns94B4DDF5388E5houseofusher@216.40.28.72>... >> reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in news:1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4 >> @posting.google.com: >> >> > S >> > >> > >> > P >> > >> > >> > A >> > >> > >> > C >> > >> > >> > E >> > >> > >> > >> Heroes have the courage to make sure that Harmony is on it? > > --Courage? Is that what it takes to destroy a being who is, if not > good, at any rate quite helpful and useful? > > I think it would make a lot more sense for Angel to make sure that in > the end, no matter what happens to W&H, Harmony remains with him and > Wesley, so that they can supervise her in future, prevent her from > doing harm, and make sure she goes on making herself useful. I sincerely doubt that Our Heroes would be able to maintain Harmony's good behavior without the resources of W&H to monitor her feeding and reward her loyalty. And maybe that's not the case, but why take the risk? If I'm right, innocent people lose their lives. If I'm wrong, Our Heroes have merely destroyed a murderous sociopath who only did good for personal gain. -- Lord Usher "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."

2004-03-24 23:59:09+00:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (alanesue@aol.com)


>Subject: Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 >From: reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) >> > S >> > >> > >> > P >> > >> > >> > A >> > >> > >> > C >> > >> > >> > E >> > >> > >> > >> > >> pedophalia and bashing the government. Well, I suppose controversy is >> a way to boost ratings. > >--So, the existence of one unscrupulous senator who engages in dirty >tricks is "bashing the government" to you? > >Anyone who doesn't realize there are a few bad apples in the bunch is >hopelessly naive. > >If something like Wolfram and Hart, with all its powers and >capabilities, existed in the real world, do you really think there'd >be no politicos who would take advantage of W&H's services in their >election campaigns? This is the Buffyverse we're talking about, where >magic and demonic powers exist. Besides that, we already had a Joe Kennedy and George Sr. reference in "Conviction," when Angel and the gang were going over the W&H files: LORNE (reading a file) Hmm, well, this is interesting. Apparently old Joe Kennedy tried to get out of his deal with the firm. ANGEL That explains a lot. LORNE Yeah, but George, Senior—he read the fine print. There's no one these guys don't have a piece of.

2004-03-25 02:01:35+00:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (Sillyman@famous.com)


On 24 Mar 2004 15:43:30 -0800, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: >Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> >> >> And I also wonder: if that bridge does go down in flames, will Our >> Heroes have the courage to make sure that Harmony is on it? > >--Courage? Is that what it takes to destroy a being who is, if not >good, at any rate quite helpful and useful? Considering she's a evil, bloodthirsty, soulless dead thing who will revert to her true nature once off the leash, chaining her to that burning bridge seems prudent. As for courage, it would take some. The gang have had time to get used to her. Rather like firing or laying off an employee, the better you know them the harder it is. Admittedly, killing something is a more drastic step than creating unemployment, but, y'know, evil dead thing, not so much worse in this case. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and do the hard thing for the greater good. Of course, even Angel and Wes, who've known Harmony longest, don't have a lot of fond memories of her. She was evil-centric even when she had a heartbeat. So, really, not so much a courageous act to dust her as a distasteful one. Like taking out smelly, drippy garbage. Icky, but it has to be done. >I see no reason to clamor for Harmony's destruction. It is gauche to clamour. However, petitioning tastefully seems in order.

2004-03-25 04:12:21+00:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (aej17DELETEME@comcast.net)


JLB <barnett@shentel.net> wrote: > > Frankly I don't get the obsession with accusing the gov't of doing > evil things. I mean certainly criticisms are valid, but conspiracy > theories everywhere. It just seems to me that we think we've got to > make up for all the people who live in countries where you can't > criticize and bash the gov't. People criticize the government for doing evil things because the government often does do evil things. I won't bother repeating the oft-quoted (at this point it is trite, but I'll take the chance) story of the scorpion and the frog. It is in the nature of governments to generally be bad. They are made up of people whose primary trait is ambition. Does this mean that everyone involved in government is bad? No. But it does mean that those with the most power are most likely to be the worst people, and most likely to do the worst things. Add into this equation an apathetic and generally ignorant public, and you have a perfect recipe for a very frightening situation. I've been thinking about this a great deal lately, and I have come to the conclusion that there is no answer, no way out. People are bad, and people in power are worse. I can't see the future being anything but bleak for humanity in general. -- AE Jabbour "If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do." - Angel, "Epiphany"

2004-03-25 15:02:09-08:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (reldevik@usa.net)


barnett@shentel.net (JLB) wrote in message news:<c7b2ff96.0403241921.91898ab@posting.google.com>... > alanesue@aol.com (Alane Sue) wrote in message news:<20040324185909.09636.00000021@mb-m24.aol.com>... > > >Subject: Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 > > >From: reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) > > > >> > S > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > P > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > A > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > C > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > E > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> pedophalia and bashing the government. Well, I suppose controversy is > > >> a way to boost ratings. > > > > > >--So, the existence of one unscrupulous senator who engages in dirty > > >tricks is "bashing the government" to you? > > > > > >Anyone who doesn't realize there are a few bad apples in the bunch is > > >hopelessly naive. > > > > > >If something like Wolfram and Hart, with all its powers and > > >capabilities, existed in the real world, do you really think there'd > > >be no politicos who would take advantage of W&H's services in their > > >election campaigns? This is the Buffyverse we're talking about, where > > >magic and demonic powers exist. > > Honestly. I would think they'd be weeded out. A few gentlemen in > black suits with sunglasses approach them. "Sir(or Ma'am) it's come > to our attention that you've had dealings with a law firm called > Wolfram & Hart. We stongly suggest you cease any interactions with > them so that the electoral process can proceed smoothly." We know > there are guys out there, like the old Watcher's Council, who are good > guys. But still generally very unpleasant. So they could do that > sort of stuff. --Yes, they could, conceivably. But the forces of W&H would also be ranged against them. What if, in the Buffyverse, W&H has prevented the existence of any such Men In Black organization? Or prevented it from being fully effective and detecting all cases of evil and corruption? W&H could ensure that evil politicos are very well entrenched in the Buffyverse, while also ensuring that any good guys who might try to counter them don't even have a real chance. I don't think you grasp just how insidious W&H are. Clairel

2004-03-25 15:04:59-08:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (reldevik@usa.net)


Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94B6EB93B665houseofusher@216.40.28.76>... > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in > news:1faed770.0403241543.2e9abf72@posting.google.com: > > > Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:<Xns94B4DDF5388E5houseofusher@216.40.28.72>... > >> reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in news:1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4 > >> @posting.google.com: > >> > >> > S > >> > > >> > > >> > P > >> > > >> > > >> > A > >> > > >> > > >> > C > >> > > >> > > >> > E > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Heroes have the courage to make sure that Harmony is on it? > > > > --Courage? Is that what it takes to destroy a being who is, if not > > good, at any rate quite helpful and useful? > > > > I think it would make a lot more sense for Angel to make sure that in > > the end, no matter what happens to W&H, Harmony remains with him and > > Wesley, so that they can supervise her in future, prevent her from > > doing harm, and make sure she goes on making herself useful. > > I sincerely doubt that Our Heroes would be able to maintain Harmony's > good behavior without the resources of W&H to monitor her feeding and > reward her loyalty. > > And maybe that's not the case, but why take the risk? If I'm right, > innocent people lose their lives. If I'm wrong, Our Heroes have merely > destroyed a murderous sociopath who only did good for personal gain. --Eh, I knew you would say something like that. And while I follow your logic, I don't share your zeal. I just can't take any joy in the thought of Harmony's demise. Since I'm outside the Buffyverse and am just watching it through a television screen for entertainment, I can't help hoping Harmony finds a way to survive and go on being a productive citizen under Angel's and Wesley's tutelage. I'm pretty sure they could come up with some sort of blood-testing method on their own, and I think it's worth doing. Who else could make a cup of mixed pig's and otter's blood just the way Angel likes it? Clairel

2004-03-25 16:59:52-08:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (barnett@shentel.net)


aej17DELETEME@comcast.net (A.E. Jabbour) wrote in message news:<c3tm75$2d760m$2@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... > JLB <barnett@shentel.net> wrote: > > > > Frankly I don't get the obsession with accusing the gov't of doing > > evil things. I mean certainly criticisms are valid, but conspiracy > > theories everywhere. It just seems to me that we think we've got to > > make up for all the people who live in countries where you can't > > criticize and bash the gov't. > > People criticize the government for doing evil things because the > government often does do evil things. > > I won't bother repeating the oft-quoted (at this point it is trite, > but I'll take the chance) story of the scorpion and the frog. It > is in the nature of governments to generally be bad. They are made > up of people whose primary trait is ambition. > > Does this mean that everyone involved in government is bad? No. > But it does mean that those with the most power are most likely > to be the worst people, and most likely to do the worst things. > > Add into this equation an apathetic and generally ignorant public, > and you have a perfect recipe for a very frightening situation. > > I've been thinking about this a great deal lately, and I have come > to the conclusion that there is no answer, no way out. People > are bad, and people in power are worse. I can't see the future > being anything but bleak for humanity in general. Boy, and I thought I was bad. I just think of people in the gov't as slimy. By the way, the story is about a scorpion and a fox. About the Joe Kennedy/George Sr. things? If W&H was a real law firm, is it likely that the LA branch would have copies of those contracts? Because the Kennedys are Massachusetts based, the Bushes from Connecticutt and Texas. We know there are other branches, so wouldn't they go closer to home? Or when a lawfirm gets a client do all branches get copies of the contract? JLB

2004-03-25 17:34:03-08:00 - Re: Casting side for episode 5.21 - (himiko@animail.net)


fylmfan@aol.comspam (Rose) wrote in message news:<20040323055926.06623.00001999@mb-m05.aol.com>... > >Subject: Casting side for episode 5.21 > >From: reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) > >Date: 3/22/2004 3:39 PM Pacific Standard Time > >Message-id: <1faed770.0403221539.4962e0f4@posting.google.com> > > > >S > > > > > >P > > > > > >A > > > > > >C > > > > > >E > > > > > > > >The casting side is for Senator Helen Brucker. > > Frau Brucker! (WHINNY!!) > > Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Damn you, Rose! I wanted to do that and Google wouldn't let me post. I see Clairel posted my other, longer, post, for which, thanks...but posting a joke by proxy that way is a bit like explaining one. So I didn't. himiko