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2004-06-22 13:25:16-07:00 - NG attitudes toward Wes, 1999 to now - (reldevik@usa.net)


Now that Wesley has died, and with such a poignant and memorable death scene, I thought it would be interesting to look up some of the first comments on Wesley from 1999 when he took over from Doyle. Considering the accolades Alexis Denisof has been getting for his acting ability and the range in his acting (from comical to serious), I thought these two comments were especially ironic (I pasted them in without any alterations, and if you don't believe me you can check for yourselves on Google): From: John Baker (forge@magicnet.net) Subject: Re: Wake me when it's over View this article only Newsgroups: alt.tv.angel Date: 1999/12/16 I think you all have a valid point - losing Doyle (just when he was getting really interesting!) and bringing in Wesley (who will never EVER be anything but a "comedy sidekick") is making my interest wander. If they don't really do something spectacular in the next three or four episodes... then I'm free after 9 p.m. Tuesdays. Message 10 in thread From: Granthor the Barbarian (granthor@oz.net) Subject: Re: Wake me when it's over View this article only Newsgroups: alt.tv.angel Date: 1999/12/16 Ian J. Ball <IJBall@aol.com> wrote in message news:IJBall-1512991347590001@pool0015.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net... <<SNIP>> > Personally, I think "Angel" needs more retooling. And the first thing they > need to do is dump Wesley. I don't care if they bring Oz on, or somebody > else, as long as it's a character (strong preference for another male > character) that I can *respect* as much as Doyle. I think this is what's at the core of MY gripe, Ian - thanks for hitting the nail on the head. I don't respect Wesley as a character, and I also find the actor who plays him inept. Glenn Quinn (and Seth Green for that matter) bring such a genuine quality to their work. Wesley is just not up to it. Next! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Clairel

2004-06-23 09:17:58-07:00 - Re: NG attitudes toward Wes, 1999 to now - (shuggie <shuggie_member@newsguy.com>)


In article <mmfhd0dhse38nedcupkvr7rct93tgduaor@4ax.com>, st says... > >On 22 Jun 2004 13:25:16 -0700, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: > >>Now that Wesley has died, and with such a poignant and memorable death >>scene, I thought it would be interesting to look up some of the first >>comments on Wesley from 1999 when he took over from Doyle. >>Considering the accolades Alexis Denisof has been getting for his >>acting ability and the range in his acting (from comical to serious), >>I thought these two comments were especially ironic... > >Ironic? AD certainly has talent. That we have seen, but the fact >people didn't like AtS S1 Wesley is hardly a suprise. > >ME very quickly dumped that character in favor of one that had the >same name, but was much more interesting, and completely different. No - they never dumped that character they *transformed* him in a believable way. IMNSHO anyway >Making him into James Bond later on was stupid, but as a toned down >version of BtVS Wesley, he and Gunn interacted well. > >I don't think anyone, not in the quotes you posted anyway, thought AD >sucked as an actor. > Ian J Ball said "I also find the actor who plays him inept."

2004-06-23 09:20:35-07:00 - Re: NG attitudes toward Wes, 1999 to now - (shuggie <shuggie_member@newsguy.com>)


In article <40D9962F.2030302@flash.net>, Jerry Davis says... > > [snip] >Not to forget what an absolute twit of a weenie he was when introduced as >Faith's watcher on BtVS. Not to forget that he was designed to be that in order to make Giles cooler. Having said which I always found early Wes funny - which was his main function. There seem to be two groups of people - those who found early Wes funny and those who like the cooler, darker later Wes. I sometimes think I'm the only one in the intersection of those two groups. Ho hum

2004-06-23 14:38:24+00:00 - Re: NG attitudes toward Wes, 1999 to now - (Jerry Davis <jjdavis2@flash.net>)


Clairel wrote: >Now that Wesley has died, and with such a poignant and memorable death >scene, I thought it would be interesting to look up some of the first >comments on Wesley from 1999 when he took over from Doyle. >Considering the accolades Alexis Denisof has been getting for his >acting ability and the range in his acting (from comical to serious), >I thought these two comments were especially ironic (I pasted them in >without any alterations, and if you don't believe me you can check for >yourselves on Google): > >From: John Baker (forge@magicnet.net) >Subject: Re: Wake me when it's over > >View this article only >Newsgroups: alt.tv.angel >Date: 1999/12/16 > >I think you all have a valid point - losing Doyle (just when he was >getting really interesting!) and bringing in Wesley (who will never >EVER >be anything but a "comedy sidekick") is making my interest wander. If >they >don't really do something spectacular in the next three or four >episodes... then I'm free after 9 p.m. Tuesdays. > > >Message 10 in thread >From: Granthor the Barbarian (granthor@oz.net) >Subject: Re: Wake me when it's over > >View this article only >Newsgroups: alt.tv.angel >Date: 1999/12/16 > >Ian J. Ball <IJBall@aol.com> wrote in message >news:IJBall-1512991347590001@pool0015.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net... ><<SNIP>> > > >>Personally, I think "Angel" needs more retooling. And the first thing they >>need to do is dump Wesley. I don't care if they bring Oz on, or somebody >>else, as long as it's a character (strong preference for another male >>character) that I can *respect* as much as Doyle. >> >> > >I think this is what's at the core of MY gripe, Ian - thanks for >hitting the >nail on the head. I don't respect Wesley as a character, and I also >find the >actor who plays him inept. Glenn Quinn (and Seth Green for that >matter) >bring such a genuine quality to their work. Wesley is just not up to >it. > >Next! > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Clairel > > Not to forget what an absolute twit of a weenie he was when introduced as Faith's watcher on BtVS. <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> Clairel wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid1faed770.0406221225.387ab110@posting.google.com"> <pre wrap="">Now that Wesley has died, and with such a poignant and memorable death scene, I thought it would be interesting to look up some of the first comments on Wesley from 1999 when he took over from Doyle. Considering the accolades Alexis Denisof has been getting for his acting ability and the range in his acting (from comical to serious), I thought these two comments were especially ironic (I pasted them in without any alterations, and if you don't believe me you can check for yourselves on Google): From: John Baker (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:forge@magicnet.net">forge@magicnet.net</a>) Subject: Re: Wake me when it's over View this article only Newsgroups: alt.tv.angel Date: 1999/12/16 I think you all have a valid point - losing Doyle (just when he was getting really interesting!) and bringing in Wesley (who will never EVER be anything but a "comedy sidekick") is making my interest wander. If they don't really do something spectacular in the next three or four episodes... then I'm free after 9 p.m. Tuesdays. Message 10 in thread From: Granthor the Barbarian (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:granthor@oz.net">granthor@oz.net</a>) Subject: Re: Wake me when it's over View this article only Newsgroups: alt.tv.angel Date: 1999/12/16 Ian J. Ball <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IJBall@aol.com">&lt;IJBall@aol.com&gt;</a> wrote in message <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:IJBall-1512991347590001@pool0015.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net">news:IJBall-1512991347590001@pool0015.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net</a>... &lt;&lt;SNIP&gt;&gt; </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Personally, I think "Angel" needs more retooling. And the first thing they need to do is dump Wesley. I don't care if they bring Oz on, or somebody else, as long as it's a character (strong preference for another male character) that I can *respect* as much as Doyle. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> I think this is what's at the core of MY gripe, Ian - thanks for hitting the nail on the head. I don't respect Wesley as a character, and I also find the actor who plays him inept. Glenn Quinn (and Seth Green for that matter) bring such a genuine quality to their work. Wesley is just not up to it. Next! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Clairel </pre> </blockquote> Not to forget what an absolute twit of a weenie he was when introduced as Faith's watcher on BtVS.<br> <br> </body> </html>

2004-06-24 01:26:57+00:00 - Re: NG attitudes toward Wes, 1999 to now - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"shuggie" <shuggie_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:cbcakj027p4@drn.newsguy.com... > In article <40D9962F.2030302@flash.net>, Jerry Davis says... > > > > > > [snip] > > >Not to forget what an absolute twit of a weenie he was when introduced as > >Faith's watcher on BtVS. > > Not to forget that he was designed to be that in order to make Giles cooler. > > Having said which I always found early Wes funny - which was his main function. > There seem to be two groups of people - those who found early Wes funny and > those who like the cooler, darker later Wes. I sometimes think I'm the only one > in the intersection of those two groups. Well, I liked all three versions of Wes. -- Best regards, Linda Mmmmmm.......Angel

2004-06-24 02:21:47+00:00 - Re: NG attitudes toward Wes, 1999 to now - (Frank Swarbrick <infocat@sprynet.com>)


shuggie wrote: > In article <40D9962F.2030302@flash.net>, Jerry Davis says... > >> > > [snip] > > >>Not to forget what an absolute twit of a weenie he was when introduced as >>Faith's watcher on BtVS. > > > Not to forget that he was designed to be that in order to make Giles cooler. > > Having said which I always found early Wes funny - which was his main function. > There seem to be two groups of people - those who found early Wes funny and > those who like the cooler, darker later Wes. I sometimes think I'm the only one > in the intersection of those two groups. Not at all. I love "both sides" of Wesley, and I'm sure many others do as well. -- Frank Swarbrick infocat@sprynet.com

2004-06-24 12:00:56-07:00 - Re: NG attitudes toward Wes, 1999 to now - (reldevik@usa.net)


shuggie <shuggie_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<cbcakj027p4@drn.newsguy.com>... > In article <40D9962F.2030302@flash.net>, Jerry Davis says... > > > > > > [snip] > > >Not to forget what an absolute twit of a weenie he was when introduced as > >Faith's watcher on BtVS. > > Not to forget that he was designed to be that in order to make Giles cooler. > > Having said which I always found early Wes funny - which was his main function. > There seem to be two groups of people - those who found early Wes funny and > those who like the cooler, darker later Wes. I sometimes think I'm the only one > in the intersection of those two groups. --I'm with you, pretty much. Not that I think Clown Wesley was the most hilarious character ever. There were funnier characters. But I appreciated Denisof's acting in that role, I found it amusing, and I thought he showed ability with it. It's just that later, with Serious Wesley, AD showed that he had the ability to play more than just one kind of character. And in Waiting in the Wings in season 4, he showed that he had the ability to revert to Clown Wesley whenever called upon. That was uncanny! It is pretty strange that people in 1999 would decide, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, that Alexis Denisof as an actor had no range, and no possibilities besides Clown Wesley. Lack of proof isn't the same as proof to the contrary. Clairel

2004-06-25 05:15:50+00:00 - Re: NG attitudes toward Wes, 1999 to now - (ecriva <ecriva@bigpond.com>)


Clairel <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message news:1faed770.0406241100.6dcb796d@posting.google.com... > shuggie <shuggie_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:<cbcakj027p4@drn.newsguy.com>... > > In article <40D9962F.2030302@flash.net>, Jerry Davis says... > > > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > > >Not to forget what an absolute twit of a weenie he was when introduced as > > >Faith's watcher on BtVS. > > > > Not to forget that he was designed to be that in order to make Giles cooler. > > > > Having said which I always found early Wes funny - which was his main function. > > There seem to be two groups of people - those who found early Wes funny and > > those who like the cooler, darker later Wes. I sometimes think I'm the only one > > in the intersection of those two groups. > > --I'm with you, pretty much. Not that I think Clown Wesley was the > most hilarious character ever. There were funnier characters. But I > appreciated Denisof's acting in that role, I found it amusing, and I > thought he showed ability with it. It's just that later, with Serious > Wesley, AD showed that he had the ability to play more than just one > kind of character. And in Waiting in the Wings in season 4, he showed > that he had the ability to revert to Clown Wesley whenever called > upon. That was uncanny! > > It is pretty strange that people in 1999 would decide, on the basis of > no evidence whatsoever, that Alexis Denisof as an actor had no range, > and no possibilities besides Clown Wesley. Lack of proof isn't the > same as proof to the contrary. > > Clairel ______________________________________________________________ Exactly right Clairel. But how often have people seen an actor in just one role and assumed that was their range. We can't really know how well someone will do until they get a chance to show their range. The more I have seen of the character of Wes over the course of AtS I have really grown to enjoy seeing that character on the show. I thought he did a marvelous job acting the silly watcher on BtVS - when I saw him doing that I thought he must be a good actor and that he was a dramatic actor - maybe I was wrong but watching him on BtVS he reminded me of say excellent singers who need to be excellent in order to sing poorly and comically. I saw Denisof's acting in the same light. Mind you I also love the way Angel and Spike are played and I think both DV and JM can show a lot more range and skill when given the opportunity. Just my opinion. cheers Erica from Oz

2004-06-27 16:40:47-07:00 - Re: NG attitudes toward Wes, 1999 to now - (reldevik@usa.net)


"Ian J. Ball" <ijball***SPAM-No***@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message news:<ijball***SPAM-No***-11CA4B.10321127062004@orngca-news03.socal.rr.com>... > In article <cbcafm0276k@drn.newsguy.com>, > shuggie <shuggie_member@newsguy.com> wrote: > > > In article <mmfhd0dhse38nedcupkvr7rct93tgduaor@4ax.com>, st says... > > > > >Making him into James Bond later on was stupid, but as a toned down > > >version of BtVS Wesley, he and Gunn interacted well. > > > > > >I don't think anyone, not in the quotes you posted anyway, thought AD > > >sucked as an actor. > > > > Ian J Ball said > > > > "I also find the actor who plays him inept." > > For the record, I did not write the above - as per Clariel's original > post, Granthor the Barbarian (granthor@oz.net) wrote it. --Okay, Ian. What you wrote in 1999 was, 'Personally, I think "Angel" needs more retooling. And the first thing they need to do is dump Wesley. I don't care if they bring Oz on, or somebody else, as long as it's a character (strong preference for another male character) that I can *respect* as much as Doyle.' I'd be interested to know if your views have changed since then. I suppose with a lot of googling I might be able to find that out, but maybe you would be willing to save some time by posting a summation? Thanks, Clairel

2004-06-27 17:31:08+00:00 - Re: NG attitudes toward Wes, 1999 to now - ("Ian J. Ball" <ijball***SPAM-No***@mac.com.invalid>)


In article <cbcafm0276k@drn.newsguy.com>, shuggie <shuggie_member@newsguy.com> wrote: > In article <mmfhd0dhse38nedcupkvr7rct93tgduaor@4ax.com>, st says... > > >Making him into James Bond later on was stupid, but as a toned down > >version of BtVS Wesley, he and Gunn interacted well. > > > >I don't think anyone, not in the quotes you posted anyway, thought AD > >sucked as an actor. > > Ian J Ball said > > "I also find the actor who plays him inept." For the record, I did not write the above - as per Clariel's original post, Granthor the Barbarian (granthor@oz.net) wrote it. -- Ian J. Ball | "I think things are even worse now after TV lover, and | the awful... fish sex." Usenet slacker | - Seth Cohen, "The O.C." ijball@macDOTcom | http://homepage.mac.com/ijball/TV.html

2004-07-13 08:08:33+00:00 - Re: NG attitudes toward Wes, 1999 to now - (MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply)


Spoilers for _Buffy_, "Bad Girls" through "Graduation," pt.2; _Angel_, "Parting Gifts" onwards. . . . . . . . . . . . . . In article <B5qCc.18168516$Of.3009810@news.easynews.com>, "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> writes: : Well, I liked all three versions of Wes. I liked the green eager Wesley in _Buffy_ who, at the end, was able to put aside his pride in order to sign on for the big fight under Buffy's direction even though he wasn't on the Council's payroll anymore. I liked the bumbling comic-relief charity-case Wesley who joined Angel Investigations. I liked the increasingly confident and even leader-like Wesley. I couldn't stand dumber-than-dirt Wesley, plot-device kickball Wesley. I simply had no use for the extreme extended period of wallows-in-filth Wesley. A little bit of that can say a lot about a character, and that's plenty for story purposes. There's a good reason why we saw maybe five minutes out of the twenty years that Angel spent eating rats. Once he started on that diet, Wesley never really stopped. Alexis Denisof was the best actor on _Angel_, though, and I felt sorry for him the last three seasons. -Micky -- : this whole thing about Wesley becoming a member of the show : absolutely disgusts me. Raise your hand out there in Cyberland : if you actually LIKED that irritating little pissant... : waiting....You know what? I'm not seeing any hands out there, : people. You're only seeing what you want to see. Except for his one classy moment, I'd probably be annoyed by Wesley if I knew him as a real person, but I liked him a lot as a character and loved Alexis Denisof as an actor. : I am not amused...and I think you find if you check the board : that no one else is either. Wrong again. While I haven't at all been amused by being spoiled about this possibility by indiscriminate mentions of it, I find the idea itself enormously amusing. Angel rolling his eyes at Wesley and saying under his breath that he wonders if redemption is really worth this price after all has potential. People were also saying they couldn't see how Doyle would work out before they actually saw the series as well. -- Micky DuPree, article <FMBpE9.A8M@world.std.com>, alt.tv.angel, 6 Dec 1999