FLM films - My Webpage

2003-05-23 17:08:04-04:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (DarkMagic <slnospambilan@comcast.net>)


"Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote in message news:20030523140649.14509.00000183@mb-m02.aol.com... > -- Whether good or evil, she brought a woman's energy (as opposed to a girl's > energy) to the show. Grow'd up, confident, imbued with purpose, she was a > strong matriarchal presence on a show otherwise made up of men, a boy, and a > very girlish woman. > She was not. Cordelia was about as shallow and infantile as high school girls ever get. The only thoughts in her head were about herself and boys. She started to mature, mildly, after dating Xander and fighting evil for awhile. She matured a tad more after she was forced to accept paid employment to afford the prom. She was still plenty shallow and immature, though, upon running into Angel in L.A. > -- At the risk of sounding PC or shallow, it's cool to see a (part) Native > American in a non racial specific role on a TV show. > I didn't even realize she was part Native American. She is beautiful and a pleasure to look at, in any case. Except when she's pregnant and dressed in sheep fleece or maternity whore wear. > -- I enjoyed her acting as she played Jasmine-Cordelia. Her voice, her face, > her body carriage, all fit perfectly with someone cooking up machiavellian > schemes. When she's too goody two shoes I'm not as crazy about her, but when > she's snarky-good or wicked, CC's acting is very good and Cordelia is a most > entertaining character. > Cordelia was a most entertaining character. Pre-"Birthday" Cordelia never failed to please. > -- She provides for Angel, a link between Sunnydale and his current life. That > bridge provides a good sense of continuity. > Yeah. > Please bring her back if you can. > The way she was. > > >-- Shannon Giles: I used to be a highly respected Watcher. Now, I'm a wounded Dwarf with the mystical power of a paper doily." >

2003-05-23 18:06:49+00:00 - Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


-- Whether good or evil, she brought a woman's energy (as opposed to a girl's energy) to the show. Grow'd up, confident, imbued with purpose, she was a strong matriarchal presence on a show otherwise made up of men, a boy, and a very girlish woman. -- At the risk of sounding PC or shallow, it's cool to see a (part) Native American in a non racial specific role on a TV show. -- I enjoyed her acting as she played Jasmine-Cordelia. Her voice, her face, her body carriage, all fit perfectly with someone cooking up machiavellian schemes. When she's too goody two shoes I'm not as crazy about her, but when she's snarky-good or wicked, CC's acting is very good and Cordelia is a most entertaining character. -- She provides for Angel, a link between Sunnydale and his current life. That bridge provides a good sense of continuity. Please bring her back if you can. Independent Spike in 2003-2004! :)

2003-05-23 18:10:11-04:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (Chelsea Christenson <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com>)


DarkMagic wrote: > "Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote in message > news:20030523140649.14509.00000183@mb-m02.aol.com... > > -- Whether good or evil, she brought a woman's energy (as opposed to a > girl's > > energy) to the show. Grow'd up, confident, imbued with purpose, she was a > > strong matriarchal presence on a show otherwise made up of men, a boy, and > a > > very girlish woman. > > > She was not. Cordelia was about as shallow and infantile as high school > girls ever get. The only thoughts in her head were about herself and boys. > She started to mature, mildly, after dating Xander and fighting evil for > awhile. She matured a tad more after she was forced to accept paid > employment to afford the prom. She was still plenty shallow and immature, > though, upon running into Angel in L.A. All your complaints are about Cordelia from BtVS. This is the AtS newsgroup. Adjust your point of reference.

2003-05-23 19:24:55-04:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (Chelsea Christenson <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com>)


Karen wrote: > "Chelsea Christenson" <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com> wrote in message > news:3ECE9C43.2C650FB7@oracle.com... > > DarkMagic wrote: > > > though, upon running into Angel in L.A. > > > > All your complaints are about Cordelia from BtVS. This is the AtS > newsgroup. > > Adjust your point of reference > > get a grip of yourself, Chelsea... for Gods sake... What's your problem? Rose was praising Cordelia's character on AtS, where she _was_ "Grow'd up, confident, imbued with purpose." Shannon's objections were all about Cordelia on BtVS and completely ignored all the growth the character had gone through on AtS.

2003-05-23 20:30:41-04:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (DarkMagic <slnospambilan@comcast.net>)


"Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote in message news:20030523171205.14861.00000248@mb-m12.aol.com... > Shannon wrote: > > > > >She was not. > > Blah, I can't even say nice things about characters and actors without being > contradicted. ;p > I don't know that Cordelia would think being called matriarchal is a nice thing. ;) If it will make you feel any better I'll completely agree with your next post no matter what it says. -- Shannon Giles: I used to be a highly respected Watcher. Now, I'm a wounded Dwarf with the mystical power of a paper doily." > > >

2003-05-23 20:33:41-04:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (DarkMagic <slnospambilan@comcast.net>)


"Chelsea Christenson" <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com> wrote in message news:3ECE9C43.2C650FB7@oracle.com... > DarkMagic wrote: > > > "Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote in message > > news:20030523140649.14509.00000183@mb-m02.aol.com... > > > -- Whether good or evil, she brought a woman's energy (as opposed to a > > girl's > > > energy) to the show. Grow'd up, confident, imbued with purpose, she was a > > > strong matriarchal presence on a show otherwise made up of men, a boy, and > > a > > > very girlish woman. > > > > > She was not. Cordelia was about as shallow and infantile as high school > > girls ever get. The only thoughts in her head were about herself and boys. > > She started to mature, mildly, after dating Xander and fighting evil for > > awhile. She matured a tad more after she was forced to accept paid > > employment to afford the prom. She was still plenty shallow and immature, > > though, upon running into Angel in L.A. > > All your complaints are about Cordelia from BtVS. This is the AtS newsgroup. > Adjust your point of reference. > I'm not complaining about Cordelia, I'm just stating the facts. She was very immature and self-centered, but she played an important role in that capacity and she did it very well. Also, I did mention that she was still very immature and self-centered when she first met Angel on AtS. It took a full year of fighting the good fight, losing friends, and helping the helpless to start her transformation into a more evolved human being capable of putting the needs of others before her own. > -- Shannon Giles: I used to be a highly respected Watcher. Now, I'm a wounded Dwarf with the mystical power of a paper doily."

2003-05-23 20:37:50-04:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (DarkMagic <slnospambilan@comcast.net>)


"Chelsea Christenson" <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com> wrote in message news:3ECEADC7.2731F@oracle.com... > Karen wrote: > > > "Chelsea Christenson" <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com> wrote in message > > news:3ECE9C43.2C650FB7@oracle.com... > > > DarkMagic wrote: > > > > though, upon running into Angel in L.A. > > > > > > All your complaints are about Cordelia from BtVS. This is the AtS > > newsgroup. > > > Adjust your point of reference > > > > get a grip of yourself, Chelsea... for Gods sake... > > What's your problem? Rose was praising Cordelia's character on AtS, where > she _was_ "Grow'd up, confident, imbued with purpose." Shannon's > objections were all about Cordelia on BtVS and completely ignored all the > growth the character had gone through on AtS. > Cordelia was always confident and imbued with purpose. It's the grow'd up part I objected to. Cordelia was not grow'd up when she first joined AtS, and she was only beginning to grow'd up when Skip attacked. Even at that, I think many of the things she did were still immature and self-centered, especially the part where she knew the visions were killing her and she didn't tell anyone or try to stop it from happening until it was too late. -- Shannon Giles: I used to be a highly respected Watcher. Now, I'm a wounded Dwarf with the mystical power of a paper doily.">

2003-05-23 21:12:05+00:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


Shannon wrote: > >She was not. Blah, I can't even say nice things about characters and actors without being contradicted. ;p Independent Spike in 2003-2004! :)

2003-05-23 23:49:45+01:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (Karen <hekate@blueyonder.co.uk>)


"Chelsea Christenson" <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com> wrote in message news:3ECE9C43.2C650FB7@oracle.com... > DarkMagic wrote: > > though, upon running into Angel in L.A. > > All your complaints are about Cordelia from BtVS. This is the AtS newsgroup. > Adjust your point of reference get a grip of yourself, Chelsea... for Gods sake...

2003-05-24 02:54:50+00:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


>Subject: Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia >From: "DarkMagic" slnospambilan@comcast.net >Date: 5/23/2003 5:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time >Message-id: <7fWcnSjh8tSiIFOjXTWcqA@comcast.com> > > > >"Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote in message >news:20030523171205.14861.00000248@mb-m12.aol.com... >> Shannon wrote: >> >> > >> >She was not. >> >> Blah, I can't even say nice things about characters and actors without >being >> contradicted. ;p >> >I don't know that Cordelia would think being called matriarchal is a nice >thing. ;) >If it will make you feel any better I'll completely agree with your next >post no matter what it says. > I am the most beautiful woman in the world. Independent Spike in 2003-2004! :)

2003-05-24 03:05:17-07:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (aliveandkicking_justabout@yahoo.co.uk)


> > > I'm not complaining about Cordelia, I'm just stating the facts. She was > very immature and self-centered, but she played an important role in that > capacity and she did it very well. Also, I did mention that she was still > very immature and self-centered when she first met Angel on AtS. It took a > full year of fighting the good fight, losing friends, and helping the > helpless to start her transformation into a more evolved human being capable > of putting the needs of others before her own. > > > -- > Shannon > Cordelia's story is over- it was inevitable that she would end this way In Birthday when Skip makes it sound as if the Actress Life is her "true" destiny, a destiny thwarted when she ran into Angel at a party two and a half years ago. Isnt the truth that she would have died in City of... if Angel hadnt saved her and that he would have run into her there anyway. Was it Cordy's vanity that made her not question Skip's claim that was a higher being and that she had to choose straigt away. The last time skip made an offer to cordy that itself was a trick test- how come she didnt question it. Why didnt she acknowledge the powers warning that came in Tomorrow when she found herself repeating the same words of her vision? Also in Birthday why didnt she give Angel a chance and listen to everything he said to the powers before she gave up on him and accepted the alternate life. After knowing all she did about vampires why did she accept harmony into her home and life. And after that debacle why did she choose to care for Darla over Angel when she found out she was pregnant. Why was the idea of being forced to comshuck not so terrible when it turned out Groo was handsome? Also when she found out that the visions were effecting her brain ( ie the x-rays and medication Fred finds in Birthday)why hadnt she asked Wesley or Angel for help. Considering all the fights they have won- Angel could have sorted it out with the powers or found someother way. She left it too late- knowing that as a human she was going brain dead because of the visions and she already had more damage to her brain than most humans. Her choices have always seemed questionable in my opinion. I was trying to say that everything that led up to cordelias acsention was due to bad choices she made, and that ultimately things would come unstuck for her. At some point she would have to accept the consequences for those choices she made. Jasmine just took advantage of the mistakes cordelia made. The problem with the b*tchy cordy and even the half demon cordy is how could you further develop that character, without doing what the writers have already done? After taking on the visions by choice- the only way forward for cordy is being made a higher being- that is her reward. Or the retelling of the Buffy and Angel story about an impossible relationship, where sex is out of the question, where she wont have children etc. As for the B*tchy cordy of buffy days and early ATS- that becomes a bit one-note. Even Spike has grown as a character. I would hate the writers to back track all the way back to Birthday- would ruin two seasons of Angel. Better to acknowledge her bad choices and have her hate the ptb for letting her be abused in that way. Bad enough it had to happen with Conner- but that I accept for the poor boys sanity. Another problem with the storyline was that C/A was forced in terms of chemistry, in comparison to the sparkage between Angel and Faith or Angel and Lilah. Personaly i think Skip was talking rubbish. I dont think Jasmine has had this planned out for the start, everything they've said on the show is contradictory, and i think thats deliebrate. Jasmine saw an opportunity when Conner was born, Conner was born becasue Angel was owed a life, it was nothing to do with Jamsine, Cordleia could have chosen at any time not to nmake the decesions she made, as above all else we have free will re: Gunns speach. I think cordelia was ultimately at fault for being in the postition to be manipulated and taken over by Jasmine. What happened after she came back is still debatable- how much was cordelia in control if at all? I just think it is in her personality that something like this will happen, because she was vain enough to believe herself to be a higher being.

2003-05-25 01:30:11+00:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (scorpioxf@aol.commotion)


I'll miss her snappiness, feisty perserverance that Fred just can't attain (without seemish bookishly fake); her desire for a desperate material wealth in the midst of chaos; her blossoming romance with Angel. Theresa Truth is one, paths are many.

2003-05-25 08:42:52-07:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (tnab76@yahoo.com)


aliveandkicking_justabout@yahoo.co.uk (Darla) wrote in message news:<b7ce6ebe.0305240205.2ec2fd05@posting.google.com>... > > > > Cordelia's story is over- it was inevitable that she would end this > way Wow, after reading this post in twenty different threads, it's still as annoying as the first time I read it. I think everyone gets your point, and there's no need to copy and paste the exact same message everytime someone mentions Cordelia. Heck, it didn't even make sense as a response to Shannon's message. Kenny

2003-05-25 13:44:12+00:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: > -- Whether good or evil, she brought a woman's energy (as opposed to a girl's > energy) to the show. Grow'd up, confident, imbued with purpose, she was a > strong matriarchal presence on a show otherwise made up of men, a boy, and a > very girlish woman. I would never characterize Cordelia the way you did. It just goes to show that two people can watch the same show and see two different things. I've never seen her as a matriarchal character. Was she an important, central character who kept the whole ship afloat? Sure, in S1. > -- At the risk of sounding PC or shallow, it's cool to see a (part) Native > American in a non racial specific role on a TV show. I didn't even know she was part Native American. See, ya learn something new every day. > -- I enjoyed her acting as she played Jasmine-Cordelia. Her voice, her face, > her body carriage, all fit perfectly with someone cooking up machiavellian > schemes. When she's too goody two shoes I'm not as crazy about her, but when > she's snarky-good or wicked, CC's acting is very good and Cordelia is a most > entertaining character. Charisma's acting has gotten worse each season. I thought she was atrocious this year, and not just because I hated the storyline. Last year she was pretty bad, but tolerable for the most part. In S1, she was brilliant. But then again, the writing has gotten worse and worse, so it's not her fault. > -- She provides for Angel, a link between Sunnydale and his current life. That > bridge provides a good sense of continuity. True. And that was a good aspect of her character back in the day. However, I guess we don't need a link to Sunnydale with Spike aboard. > Please bring her back if you can. Only bring her back if she is the real deal. -- A.E. Jabbour You don't learn that kind of darkness - it's innate. It was in you before we ever met. You said you can smell me? Well I can smell you too. My boy's in there, and he wants out. Darla, "Dear Boy"

2003-05-26 03:37:23+00:00 - Re: Why I Will Miss Cordelia - (Laz <laz@localhost.com>)


On Sat, 24 May 2003 03:05:17 -0700, Darla wrote: >> I'm not complaining about Cordelia, I'm just stating the facts. She >> was very immature and self-centered, but she played an important role >> in that capacity and she did it very well. Also, I did mention that >> she was still very immature and self-centered when she first met Angel >> on AtS. It took a full year of fighting the good fight, losing >> friends, and helping the helpless to start her transformation into a >> more evolved human being capable of putting the needs of others before >> her own. >> >> > -- >> Shannon >> >> > Cordelia's story is over- it was inevitable that she would end this way "Nothing is inevitable if you look it in the eye and say 'You're evitable.'" -- Winifred Burkle We're talking about fiction, here. The writers are making it up as they go along. They can create whatever situations they want to for the characters and lead the characters down whatever paths they choose. The only limitation is what has gone before in the story itself and their own imaginations. Cordy's end is, of course, not inevitable. They can do whatever they like with her. In a few months, we'll see what that is. -- Laz