FLM films - My Webpage

2003-10-31 16:52:01-08:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (Hank Tiffany <davidt@cet.com>)


On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, chill@will.com wrote: > > what is guy fawkes night? A neat holiday that the super-patriots forbade holding during the period when they were trying to wipe all traces of English culture out of these United States. (ca 1776-1830) Fireworks, Bonfires, drunkenness and burning a Guy. Hank -- Hitler, he only had one ball/Goering, had two but they were small Himmler, was very simmlar/But poor old Goebbels had no balls at all

2003-10-31 16:56:14-08:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (Hank Tiffany <davidt@cet.com>)


On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Gavin Clayton wrote: > If you don't have > any sweets for them, they are likely to say, "Well fuck off then!" and > piss through your letterbox. Nice to know somebody somewhere still does it right. If you don't get a treat you're *supposed* to play a nasty trick (knock over the outhouse, egg the house, dump trash on the lawn...) kids these days just don't understand these things. Hank -- Hitler, he only had one ball/Goering, had two but they were small Himmler, was very simmlar/But poor old Goebbels had no balls at all

2003-10-31 17:46:18-05:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Gavin Clayton" <dontspam@gavinclayton.co.uk> wrote in message news:anj5qv4b701lck34lpineio5o1ins5ui4t@4ax.com... > This is what chill@will.com (chill@will.com) just wrote: > > >I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they > >don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right. > > I guess Halloween's traditions originated in England and Europe. But > America turned it into a dress-up and candy festival. > > I'm not sure how much Americans celebrate Halloween. American movies > and TV shows would suggest that Americans go crazy for it... all > adults and children getting dressed up and going to parties. But that > can't be true, can it? Almost every kid under 10 (and a good number of them older than that) dress up for Halloween each year, and for them it's probably the second biggest holiday after Christmas. (Come on, what kind of kid isn't going to go for the free candy?) Some adults dress up too, usually for a costume party or chaperoning the kids, but the vast majority stay home, handing out candy or somesuch. And then of course there's the millions of us less mature folk who have spent the night egging people's houses.:) > Here in England, we *notice* halloween, but don't make a big deal of > it. Kids sometimes make a half-hearted effort at trick-or-treating, by > putting on cheap crappy masks and knocking on doors. If you don't have > any sweets for them, they are likely to say, "Well fuck off then!" and > piss through your letterbox. So trick-or-treating is an annoyance we > have to put up with. Nobody gets dressed up, and it's not a special > day. The only good thing is that some TV channels have a horror-themed > night. Arnold Kim

2003-10-31 18:02:41+00:00 - wesley and holloween - (chill@will.com)


I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right.

2003-10-31 18:31:15+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (Brent McKee <bSmckee@shaw.caN>)


<chill@will.com> wrote in message news:3fa2a3fc.233535@news.west.earthlink.net... > I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they > don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right. He's right. While Halloween may have British origins (or more accurately European origins -- various traditions have various names for it including Walpurgisnacht in Germany) the whole way of celebrating in North America is pretty much a North American creation. Besides, it's too close to Guy Fawkes Night. BTW, it strikes me that the Wolfram and Hart Halloween Party was closer in tone to most companies' Christmas parties than it is to the normal adult Halloween masquerade party that is typically associated with the holiday. Of course, I doubt that W&H is really big on Christmas. -- Brent McKee To reply by email, please remove the capital letters (S and N) from the email address "If we cease to judge this world, we may find ourselves, very quickly, in one which is infinitely worse." - Margaret Atwood "Nothing is more dangerous than a dogmatic worldview - nothing more constraining, more blinding to innovation, more destructive of openness to novelty. " - Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002)

2003-10-31 19:25:03+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (Jerry Davis <jjdavis2@flash.net>)


Brent McKee wrote: ><chill@will.com> wrote in message >news:3fa2a3fc.233535@news.west.earthlink.net... > > >>I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they >>don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right. >> >> > >He's right. While Halloween may have British origins (or more >accurately European origins -- various traditions have various names >for it including Walpurgisnacht in Germany) the whole way of >celebrating in North America is pretty much a North American creation. >Besides, it's too close to Guy Fawkes Night. > >BTW, it strikes me that the Wolfram and Hart Halloween Party was >closer in tone to most companies' Christmas parties than it is to the >normal adult Halloween masquerade party that is typically associated >with the holiday. Of course, I doubt that W&H is really big on >Christmas. > >-- >Brent McKee > >To reply by email, please remove the capital letters (S and N) from >the email address > >"If we cease to judge this world, we may find ourselves, very quickly, >in one which is infinitely worse." > - Margaret Atwood > >"Nothing is more dangerous than a dogmatic worldview - nothing more >constraining, more blinding to innovation, more destructive of >openness to novelty. " > - Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002) > > > > > > I am told by friends to the east that Halloween as we know it is growing in popularity in Great Britain and the continent. Guy Fawkes celebrations are losing their popularity somewhat. Hmmm ... maybe another dastardly plot on 11/5 to fire up the holiday?

2003-10-31 19:41:40+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (Clotilde <hnowell@ev1.net>)


Jerry Davis <jjdavis2@flash.net> wrote: >Brent McKee wrote: > >><chill@will.com> wrote in message >>news:3fa2a3fc.233535@news.west.earthlink.net... >> >> >>>I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they >>>don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right. >>> >>> >> >>He's right. While Halloween may have British origins (or more >>accurately European origins -- various traditions have various names >>for it including Walpurgisnacht in Germany) the whole way of >>celebrating in North America is pretty much a North American creation. >>Besides, it's too close to Guy Fawkes Night. >> >>BTW, it strikes me that the Wolfram and Hart Halloween Party was >>closer in tone to most companies' Christmas parties than it is to the >>normal adult Halloween masquerade party that is typically associated >>with the holiday. Of course, I doubt that W&H is really big on >>Christmas. >> >>-- >>Brent McKee >> >>To reply by email, please remove the capital letters (S and N) from >>the email address >> >>"If we cease to judge this world, we may find ourselves, very quickly, >>in one which is infinitely worse." >> - Margaret Atwood >> >>"Nothing is more dangerous than a dogmatic worldview - nothing more >>constraining, more blinding to innovation, more destructive of >>openness to novelty. " >> - Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002) >> >> >> >> >> >> >I am told by friends to the east that Halloween as we know it is growing >in popularity in Great Britain and the continent. Guy Fawkes >celebrations are losing their popularity somewhat. Hmmm ... maybe >another dastardly plot on 11/5 to fire up the holiday? > I'd read where the British government are trying to discourage celebration of a holiday created because some guy packed the cellar with several kegs of gunpowder in order to blow up King James and Parliament. And with all the movies about Halloween that get over there, I imagine it seems like a lot more fun than just lighting illegal bonfires and hanging a dummy in effigy. - - ��� is akin to dropping rose petals into the Grand Canyon and waiting to hear the boom. -Neil Gaiman

2003-10-31 20:10:36+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (chill@will.com)


On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:25:03 GMT, Jerry Davis <jjdavis2@flash.net> wrote: >Brent McKee wrote: > >><chill@will.com> wrote in message >>news:3fa2a3fc.233535@news.west.earthlink.net... >> >> >>>I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they >>>don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right. >>> >>> >> >>He's right. While Halloween may have British origins (or more >>accurately European origins -- various traditions have various names >>for it including Walpurgisnacht in Germany) the whole way of >>celebrating in North America is pretty much a North American creation. >>Besides, it's too close to Guy Fawkes Night. what is guy fawkes night?

2003-10-31 22:57:48+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (steven <steven.house1@ntlworld.com>)


<chill@will.com> wrote in message news:3fa2a3fc.233535@news.west.earthlink.net... > I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they > don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right. Holloween is from Irish celts as for celebrateing it some peopel do and some don't.

2003-10-31 23:19:02+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (ilmaestro <a.j.marshall@NOSPAMdurham.ac.uk>)


"Gavin Clayton" <dontspam@gavinclayton.co.uk> wrote in message news:anj5qv4b701lck34lpineio5o1ins5ui4t@4ax.com... > This is what chill@will.com (chill@will.com) just wrote: > > >I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they > >don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right. > > I guess Halloween's traditions originated in England and Europe. But > America turned it into a dress-up and candy festival. > > I'm not sure how much Americans celebrate Halloween. American movies > and TV shows would suggest that Americans go crazy for it... all > adults and children getting dressed up and going to parties. But that > can't be true, can it? > > Here in England, we *notice* halloween, but don't make a big deal of > it. Kids sometimes make a half-hearted effort at trick-or-treating, by > putting on cheap crappy masks and knocking on doors. If you don't have > any sweets for them, they are likely to say, "Well fuck off then!" and > piss through your letterbox. So trick-or-treating is an annoyance we > have to put up with. Nobody gets dressed up, and it's not a special > day. The only good thing is that some TV channels have a horror-themed > night. As far as I have seen over the last couple of years, Halloween celebrations seem to be going the way of most other teenage fun; becoming more and more influenced by the way that Americans are perceived to celebrate the day in question. Certainly among my sister's age group (she's 16) and in my area of England (the West Midlands) anyway. I blame TV :) -- ilmaestro "For goats, press 1, or say 'goats'."

2003-11-01 21:03:56+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk>)


Gavin Clayton <dontspam@gavinclayton.co.uk> wrote: > This is what chill@will.com (chill@will.com) just wrote: >>what is guy fawkes night? > Why not have a Google? > Oh alright then. > It's our main night of the year for fireworks, in remembrance of plot > by Catholic extremists in the 1600s to blow up the Houses of > Parliament with kegs of gunpowder. Guy Fawkes was the one found in the > cellars with the gunpowder, so he was executed. So each year we > "Remember, remember, the fifth of November", by having firework The irony being that the plot was intended to take place on the fourth of November. The authorities were able to keep a lid on the news until the fifth. > displays and making bonfires with dummies of Guy Fawkes on them. Bonfires are an actual 17th century form of celebration. > As the first website on a Google search says: "Some of the English > have been known to wonder whether they are celebrating Fawkes' > execution or honoring his attempt to do away with the government." Depends how often the "guy" resembles a current political figure.

2003-11-02 02:48:45+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (Brent McKee <bSmckee@shaw.caN>)


"steven" <steven.house1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:5OBob.3739$mV1.1220319@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net... > > <chill@will.com> wrote in message > news:3fa2a3fc.233535@news.west.earthlink.net... > > I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they > > don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right. > > Holloween is from Irish celts as for celebrateing it some peopel do and some > don't. More specifically it is yet another pagan festival hijacked by the Catholic Church when it really was universal, given a new name (All Hallows Eve -- the night before All Saints Day) and sent out to Christianise Europe. The "Funnymentalists" (as a colleague of mine refers to them) hate it, presumably because not enough of the pagan (and or Catholic, as some "Fundies" seem to think it's the same thing) elements have been scourged from it. -- Brent McKee To reply by email, please remove the capital letters (S and N) from the email address "If we cease to judge this world, we may find ourselves, very quickly, in one which is infinitely worse." - Margaret Atwood "Nothing is more dangerous than a dogmatic worldview - nothing more constraining, more blinding to innovation, more destructive of openness to novelty. " - Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002)

2003-11-02 03:37:06+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (David Brewer <davidbrewer@blueyonder.co.uk>)


Mark Evans wrote: > > Gavin Clayton <dontspam@gavinclayton.co.uk> wrote: [...] > > As the first website on a Google search says: "Some of the English > > have been known to wonder whether they are celebrating Fawkes' > > execution or honoring his attempt to do away with the government." > > Depends how often the "guy" resembles a current political figure. Fawkes was a religeously-inspired terrorist who wanted to provoke violent regime change. I guess there'll be still be plenty of Bin Ladens being burnt this year, though perhaps a shade more George W. Bushes. -- David Brewer "The mentally disturbed do not employ the Theory of Scientific Parsimony: the most simple theory to explain a given set of facts." - P.K.Dick (from VALIS)

2003-11-02 12:20:07+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (Eds <callmerazor@hotmael.com>)


"Brent McKee" <bSmckee@shaw.caN> wrote in message news:TTxob.234719$6C4.131198@pd7tw1no... > > <chill@will.com> wrote in message > news:3fa2a3fc.233535@news.west.earthlink.net... > > I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they > > don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right. > > He's right. While Halloween may have British origins (or more > accurately European origins -- various traditions have various names > for it including Walpurgisnacht in Germany) the whole way of > celebrating in North America is pretty much a North American creation. > Besides, it's too close to Guy Fawkes Night. > > BTW, it strikes me that the Wolfram and Hart Halloween Party was > closer in tone to most companies' Christmas parties than it is to the > normal adult Halloween masquerade party that is typically associated > with the holiday. Of course, I doubt that W&H is really big on > Christmas. > Yep Halloween has taken off over here in the UK last few years. As for Christmas at W&H, someone (Lorne?) actually said "it's like Christmas", which I took to mean that Halloween was the equivalent for evildoers (albeit amateur ones in Spike's view). Very lame episode, IMHO. Eds

2003-11-02 23:23:05+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (Larry Gold <larry.gold1@ntlworld.com>)


Wesley was right, we have never celebrated it. only knew about it after J.L.Curtis meet the evil one in Halloween! -- Larry.gold Arsenal For Life Thierry Henry: Arsenal is my Paradise golden.gooner1@hotmail.com <chill@will.com> wrote in message news:3fa2a3fc.233535@news.west.earthlink.net... > I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they > don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right.

2003-11-03 21:27:47-08:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (nardo218@yahoo.com)


David Brewer <davidbrewer@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<3FA47BE3.8177B8D1@blueyonder.co.uk>... > I guess there'll be still be plenty of Bin Ladens being burnt this > year, though perhaps a shade more George W. Bushes. Really? You Brits make the effegies look like real people? Coool. Aura

2003-11-03 21:31:30-08:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (nardo218@yahoo.com)


"Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message news:<bnuoo4$2t5$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > Almost every kid under 10 (and a good number of them older than that) dress > up for Halloween each year, and for them it's probably the second biggest > holiday after Christmas. (Come on, what kind of kid isn't going to go for > the free candy?) Some adults dress up too, usually for a costume party or > chaperoning the kids, but the vast majority stay home, handing out candy or > somesuch. How does a thing like that get started? I mean, how does an entire neighbornood decide en masse to answer the door and give out candy just because hords of children are ringing the bell? > And then of course there's the millions of us less mature folk who have > spent the night egging people's houses.:) There was many a mutillated jack o lantern corpse on the streets this year. Stupid kids. :) Do the English carve pumpkins? I predict that in 50 years, the English will have assimilated Thanksgiving into their culture, too. >:) Aura

2003-11-05 00:13:52+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (chill@will.com)


On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:12:10 +0000, Gavin Clayton <dontspam@gavinclayton.co.uk> wrote: >This is what chill@will.com (chill@will.com) just wrote: > >>I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they >>don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right. > >I guess Halloween's traditions originated in England and Europe. But >America turned it into a dress-up and candy festival. > >I'm not sure how much Americans celebrate Halloween. American movies >and TV shows would suggest that Americans go crazy for it... all >adults and children getting dressed up and going to parties. But that >can't be true, can it? > >Here in England, we *notice* halloween, but don't make a big deal of >it. Kids sometimes make a half-hearted effort at trick-or-treating, by >putting on cheap crappy masks and knocking on doors. If you don't have any sweets for them, they are likely to say, "Well fuck off then!" and piss through your letterbox. So trick-or-treating is an annoyance. In LA people do that when it is not holloween, think youselves lucky you have to deal with it only one day of the year.

2003-11-05 16:45:46-08:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (Alicat <isalicat@ev1.net>)


On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:33:53 +0000 (UTC), aimee@rmta.org wrote: >Hank Tiffany <davidt@cet.com> wrote: >> On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Gavin Clayton wrote: >>> If you don't have >>> any sweets for them, they are likely to say, "Well fuck off then!" and >>> piss through your letterbox. >> Nice to know somebody somewhere still does it right. If you don't get >> a treat you're *supposed* to play a nasty trick (knock over the >> outhouse, egg the house, dump trash on the lawn...) kids these days >> just don't understand these things. > >i had an older kid last year who thought doing a trick meant performing >some sort of physical stunt which would be rewarded with a treat. he >wanted to do a backflip off my porch. first i explained about homeowner's >insurance, and how i didn't want to pay my deductible for the inevitabe >injury he'd get. then i explained about egging and tp'ing and the like. >he was shocked, but he listened very closely. ignorant whippersnappers. > >Aimee the Magdalene I love it! You are a middle class retro subversive! Did he still want candy, or do they demand something else nowadays? (cell phones, pagers, DVDs???) adios, alicat no trick or treaters here - the bears eat them :)

2003-11-05 19:33:53+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (aimee@rmta.org)


Hank Tiffany <davidt@cet.com> wrote: > On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Gavin Clayton wrote: >> If you don't have >> any sweets for them, they are likely to say, "Well fuck off then!" and >> piss through your letterbox. > Nice to know somebody somewhere still does it right. If you don't get > a treat you're *supposed* to play a nasty trick (knock over the > outhouse, egg the house, dump trash on the lawn...) kids these days > just don't understand these things. i had an older kid last year who thought doing a trick meant performing some sort of physical stunt which would be rewarded with a treat. he wanted to do a backflip off my porch. first i explained about homeowner's insurance, and how i didn't want to pay my deductible for the inevitabe injury he'd get. then i explained about egging and tp'ing and the like. he was shocked, but he listened very closely. ignorant whippersnappers. Aimee the Magdalene

2003-12-12 10:16:46+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (Growltiger <growltiger@never.invalid>)


On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:31:15 GMT, Brent McKee <bSmckee@shaw.caN> wrote: > > <chill@will.com> wrote in message > news:3fa2a3fc.233535@news.west.earthlink.net... >> I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they >> don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right. > > He's right. While Halloween may have British origins (or more > accurately European origins -- various traditions have various names > for it including Walpurgisnacht in Germany) the whole way of > celebrating in North America is pretty much a North American creation. > Besides, it's too close to Guy Fawkes Night. > [elided] Although Walpurgis Night has supernatural associations, it is on the other side of the calendar from All Hallow's Eve. Walpurgisnacht, after St. Walpurga, is observed on 30 April by some Europeans, May Day eve, if you will. It was once known as Bealtaine, and sometimes as Druid's Night. Halloween precedes All Saints Day, and it is one of the major feast days in the Catholic Christian liturgical calendar. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-12-15 08:07:17+00:00 - Re: wesley and holloween - (David Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com>)


Growltiger wrote: > > On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:31:15 GMT, Brent McKee <bSmckee@shaw.caN> > wrote: > > > <chill@will.com> wrote in message > > news:3fa2a3fc.233535@news.west.earthlink.net... > >> I always thought holloween was from england. BUt Wesley said they > >> don't celebrate it over there. Am I right or was he right. > > > > He's right. While Halloween may have British origins (or more > > accurately European origins -- various traditions have various names > > for it including Walpurgisnacht in Germany) the whole way of > > celebrating in North America is pretty much a North American > > creation. Besides, it's too close to Guy Fawkes Night. > > > [elided] > > Although Walpurgis Night has supernatural associations, it is on the > other side of the calendar from All Hallow's Eve. Walpurgisnacht, > after St. Walpurga, is observed on 30 April by some Europeans, May Day > eve, if you will. It was once known as Bealtaine, and sometimes as > Druid's Night. And is the basis for Goethe's poem "Die erste Walpurgisnacht", Mendelssohn's cantata setting of which is one of his greatest, if lesser known, compositions. Good recorded performances are hard to find, but at the moment the best available is the 1974 Masur/Gewandhaus one.