FLM films - My Webpage

2003-10-02 00:59:51-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (ClimbinRocks <me@nospam.com>)


Rob Myers wrote: > Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire she's > even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming qualities. > > However. > > What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed out > the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a purely > evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? Yep, I was wondering the same thing. Just doesn't make sense and breaks the mythology created on both Buffy and Angel. They need to provide more of an explanation of why she can be allowed to work with the team. Isn't the team worried that some night while they're working late in the office that Harmony suddenly has a craving for a little snack?

2003-10-02 02:45:12-04:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 06:32:08 GMT, Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote: >Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire she's >even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming qualities. > >However. > >What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed out >the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a purely >evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? > >I mean yeah, ok, Harmony not being the most formidable evil out there. >But she's still just as likely to kill someone who gets on her nerves >as look at them. No loyalty, no remorse, no reason to not stake her >*still*. > >Of course, that's not the only bone-headed thing about the new status >quo, but it's indicative of the generally unbelievable behavior of the >characters ever since "Home." Plus they continue to mess with the whole raison d'etre for why Buffy ever existed in the first place. Isn't it sweet that vampire-sans-soul Harmony can swear off human blood and only drink pig's blood with a little otter in it? Buffy the serial killer and even Xander murdered his best friend Jesse. Vampires could have been easily rehabilitied and weened off human blood if they'd only tried. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-10-02 05:49:49-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (kenm47@ix.netcom.com)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<43innv0qo524j9qeinim5frk0a5dfebb8b@4ax.com>... > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 06:32:08 GMT, Rob Myers > <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote: > > >Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire she's > >even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming qualities. > > > >However. > > > >What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed out > >the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a purely > >evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? > > > >I mean yeah, ok, Harmony not being the most formidable evil out there. > >But she's still just as likely to kill someone who gets on her nerves > >as look at them. No loyalty, no remorse, no reason to not stake her > >*still*. > > > >Of course, that's not the only bone-headed thing about the new status > >quo, but it's indicative of the generally unbelievable behavior of the > >characters ever since "Home." > > Plus they continue to mess with the whole raison d'etre for why Buffy ever > existed in the first place. Isn't it sweet that vampire-sans-soul Harmony > can swear off human blood and only drink pig's blood with a little otter in > it? > Buffy the serial killer and even Xander murdered his best friend Jesse. > Vampires could have been easily rehabilitied and weened off human blood if > they'd only tried. > > ENOUGH!! Go to your room!! Now!!. What we loved is gone, remember? What is left is a weekly TV show with some funny lines. It's a disconnect. It's a shade of the Buffyverse (even if Buffy herself shows up). It's just mindless weekly one hour entertainment. Really have to enjoy it for what it is because what it is not is just too apparent. I like Harmony. I hate the BTVS corruption of the vampire mythos they seemed to take care in creating. So it goes. It's not unlike Enterprise seeming totally out of place as a predecessor to Kirk, et al. Sadly that show is not much on its own. Angel at least has some of the humor and some of the spark of the Buffyverse. If Harmony can't control herself (and we know she tried and failed to before) then stake her. BUT her instinct for survival may allow her to suppress her evilness, I guess, even without a human soul - or Spike will get her one, he knows a pusher. And she's still good comic relief. Slack seems called for. Ken

2003-10-02 06:16:47-05:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Cephus <jschillaci@bellsouth.net>)


What about Gunn's sister? This Harmony thing is the WORST part of the new season. She is evil, bloodsucking vampire with NO SOUL and no redeeming qualities. She is dangerous and there is NO REASON that she shouldn't be staked immediately. This messes way too much with the established Myth to be accepted on ANY level. "ClimbinRocks" <me@nospam.com> wrote in message news:pZQeb.10667$gi2.7401@fed1read01... > > > Rob Myers wrote: > > > Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire she's > > even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming qualities. > > > > However. > > > > What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed out > > the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a purely > > evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? > > Yep, I was wondering the same thing. Just doesn't make sense and breaks > the mythology created on both Buffy and Angel. They need to provide > more of an explanation of why she can be allowed to work with the team. > > Isn't the team worried that some night while they're working late in the > office that Harmony suddenly has a craving for a little snack? > >

2003-10-02 06:32:08+00:00 - Harmony's fun and all ... - (Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net>)


Spoilers for "Conviction" I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire she's even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming qualities. However. What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed out the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a purely evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? I mean yeah, ok, Harmony not being the most formidable evil out there. But she's still just as likely to kill someone who gets on her nerves as look at them. No loyalty, no remorse, no reason to not stake her *still*. Of course, that's not the only bone-headed thing about the new status quo, but it's indicative of the generally unbelievable behavior of the characters ever since "Home." -- rob m at rob myers dot net

2003-10-02 07:55:05-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (malpaso99@aol.com)


ClimbinRocks <me@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<pZQeb.10667$ > Isn't the team worried that some night while they're working late in the > office that Harmony suddenly has a craving for a little snack? Maybe they'll go with that idea...she attacks Wes, he stakes her, and Gunn ponders what happens to her 401k.

2003-10-02 09:59:09-05:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com>)


Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote in news:021020030232073286%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net: > Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire > she's even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming > qualities. > > However. > > What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed > out the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a > purely evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? Wasn't the idea that they were trying to weed out not just the evil but the especially dangerously evil -- the people who might choose to conspire against them instead of just goin' with the flow as long as they still had cushy jobs? After all, on Lorne's list the check-box for "evil" was separate from the checkbox for "to be fired." One of the things that I think works especially well with the new premise is that it allows for previously unjustifiable character choices like Our Heroes letting EETs walk around unmolested. After all, if Angel goes around killing every EET in Wolfram & Hart's employ just because they happen to be evil murderers, he's gonna sink his new business partnership pretty darn quick. OTOH, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this idea that Harmony's given up human blood, because why in the hell would she do that? (Now that Angel's in charge of one of the Buffyverse's major social institutions, I suppose it would theoretically be possible for him to create scenarios in which EETs will derive more selfish benefit from behaving well than from behaving badly -- indeed, that seems to be one of the points of initiating institutional reform as opposed to fighting individual evildoers. But that should be a distant dream at this point in the game, perhaps an unattainable one.) -- Lord Usher "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."

2003-10-02 10:15:30-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (woodsyl@hvc.rr.com)


ClimbinRocks <me@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<pZQeb.10667$gi2.7401@fed1read01>... > Rob Myers wrote: > > > Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire she's > > even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming qualities. > > > > However. > > > > What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed out > > the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a purely > > evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? > > Yep, I was wondering the same thing. Just doesn't make sense and breaks > the mythology created on both Buffy and Angel. They need to provide > more of an explanation of why she can be allowed to work with the team. > > Isn't the team worried that some night while they're working late in the > office that Harmony suddenly has a craving for a little snack? Guys.. guys..Don't you remember Cordy calling Harmony a sheep? She is too dumb to be really evil, and she will do anything the rest of the crowd does...if they don't drink human blood neither will she. She's a classic follower. God I hope she gets staked soon. ~A~

2003-10-02 11:01:28-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (igs622001@yahoo.com)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<43innv0qo524j9qeinim5frk0a5dfebb8b@4ax.com>... > On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 06:32:08 GMT, Rob Myers > <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote: > > >Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire she's > >even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming qualities. > > > >However. > > > >What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed out > >the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a purely > >evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? > > > >I mean yeah, ok, Harmony not being the most formidable evil out there. > >But she's still just as likely to kill someone who gets on her nerves > >as look at them. No loyalty, no remorse, no reason to not stake her > >*still*. > > > >Of course, that's not the only bone-headed thing about the new status > >quo, but it's indicative of the generally unbelievable behavior of the > >characters ever since "Home." > > Plus they continue to mess with the whole raison d'etre for why Buffy ever > existed in the first place. Isn't it sweet that vampire-sans-soul Harmony > can swear off human blood and only drink pig's blood with a little otter in > it? > Buffy the serial killer and even Xander murdered his best friend Jesse. > Vampires could have been easily rehabilitied and weened off human blood if > they'd only tried. Yup. Kind of makes the whole Slayer thing a little silly, doesn't it. Oh well.

2003-10-02 11:44:50+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (snds15@cs.com)


>Subject: Harmony's fun and all ... >From: Rob Myers robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net >Date: 10/2/2003 2:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time >Message-id: <021020030232073286%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> > >Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire she's >even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming qualities. > >However. > >What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed out >the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a purely >evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? > >I mean yeah, ok, Harmony not being the most formidable evil out there. >But she's still just as likely to kill someone who gets on her nerves >as look at them. No loyalty, no remorse, no reason to not stake her >-- >rob m at rob myers dot net > > > Well, Harmony is at least making an effort not to kill, because she wants to keep her job. And this way, Angel knows where she is and what she's up to. Besides, is Harmony, a vampire, really more evil than someone like Hauser who is supposedly human? Sandra

2003-10-02 11:58:52-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (himiko@animail.net)


Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote in message news:<021020030232073286%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net>... > Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire she's > even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming qualities. She has redeeming qualities, just not very deep ones. She was much the same when she was alive. Aside from being funny, this can be very effective dramatically as a contrast to the way normal people feel and behave. Indeed we saw three great examples of that in Convictions: 1. When she found out about Cordy, was actually distraught for about half a minute, and then bounced back. It was all the more noticible that no one else did...bounce back, that is. Since ME isn't going to give Cordy much screen time, it was necessary that this be a strong moment and it was...in good part because of the contrast provided by Harmony. 2. When Fries told them that the only people who would not be killed by the bomb were those who were already dead and she gasped "oh, thank goodness." It not only highlighted Angel's altruism (he, personally, has nothing at stake here) but also emphasized the increasing greyness of what's going on at W&H. If we count Harmony as one of the gang, demons now outnumber humans among the AI crowd; they have 4 demons (3 vampires and 1 Pylean) to 3 humans. 3. Not exactly a deep moment, but her "Blondie Bear?" at the end when everyone else was looking aghast at Spike was reason enough for her to be there. > > I mean yeah, ok, Harmony not being the most formidable evil out there. Which was pretty much the point of the episode and likely the entire season. Evil isn't just evil. Evil has gradations. And sometimes you tolerate lesser evils (Harmony being about as lesser as they come) in order to fight greater evil. It's a lot more complicated than just helping the helpless on a one by one basis as Angel still longs to do. > But she's still just as likely to kill someone who gets on her nerves > as look at them. No loyalty, no remorse, no reason to not stake her > *still*. And no reason to stake her either. She says she's given up drinking human blood (and presumably killing humans in the process), and maybe she really has. The fact that she's come up with a recipe to make pig's blood taste good suggests that might actually be telling the truth on this one. As to killing anyone who gets on her nerves? She barely has any nerves...or much sensitivity at all. She's the one who gets on other people's nerves as a rule. She does have a good eye to her own advantage, and right now, not killing anyone is very much to the advantage of an undead gal trying to make good in the big city who has just landed a plum secretarial job. > > Of course, that's not the only bone-headed thing about the new status > quo, but it's indicative of the generally unbelievable behavior of the > characters ever since "Home." I find their behavior utterly believable. They're confused and totally out of their depth, so they flounder a lot as they try to adapt and modify their actions to fit their new circumstances. himiko

2003-10-02 13:00:38+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net>)


In article <20031002074450.27756.00000135@mb-m04.news.cs.com>, Snds15 <snds15@cs.com> wrote: > >Subject: Harmony's fun and all ... > >From: Rob Myers robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net > >Date: 10/2/2003 2:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time > >Message-id: <021020030232073286%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> > > > >Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire she's > >even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming qualities. > > > >However. > > > >What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed out > >the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a purely > >evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? > > > >I mean yeah, ok, Harmony not being the most formidable evil out there. > >But she's still just as likely to kill someone who gets on her nerves > >as look at them. No loyalty, no remorse, no reason to not stake her > > >-- > >rob m at rob myers dot net > > > > > > > Well, Harmony is at least making an effort not to kill, because she wants to > keep her job. She was making an effort not to kill in "Disharmony" so as to not lose her best friend. And that went well. > And this way, Angel knows where she is and what she's up to. Same could be said if she were in a dustpan. > Besides, is Harmony, a vampire, really more evil than someone like Hauser who > is supposedly human? Yes. Which is also dumb. -- rob m at rob myers dot net

2003-10-02 14:13:03+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Ard Rhi <ardrhi>)


"Rob Myers" <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote in message news:021020030232073286%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net... > Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire she's > even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming qualities. > > However. > > What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed out > the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a purely > evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? > > I mean yeah, ok, Harmony not being the most formidable evil out there. > But she's still just as likely to kill someone who gets on her nerves > as look at them. No loyalty, no remorse, no reason to not stake her > *still*. > > Of course, that's not the only bone-headed thing about the new status > quo, but it's indicative of the generally unbelievable behavior of the > characters ever since "Home." > > -- > rob m at rob myers dot net Angel had a soul and still drank from humans... I think the whole not killing Harmony stems from the theme that you can try to rush out and kill every slightly evil thing in sight, but then the possibility of redemption wouldn't exist at all. The premise for the show is based almost totally on redemption. They can give it a new facade as they seem to have in season 5, but the premise remains. As we also learned in Peace Out/Home, sometimes doing what you believe is right doesn't always add up to the best results. Angel fought against Jasmine who was creating a slave-state... and thus he ended world peace and had to give up his son or see him unhappy. Each of the characters now realizes the fight isn't so simple as it seems. Yes they did a major turn in Home... given the circumstances each has struggled against AND the outcome they got when they supposedly won the battle, I think their choice is understandable. They want to fight evil, they also have other desires, though. They don't want to be covered in vampire dust and demon blood for the rest of their natural lives or have to fear the next great evil. They want to be what they see as better people (Gunn learned the law, Fred runs a science lab, Angel continues fighting evil and corruption) without the messy punishments that usually come with doing good deeds. Who in their right mind wouldn't want that or agree with it if given the choice? Ard Rhi

2003-10-02 15:37:44-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (reldevik@usa.net)


anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM (ANIM8Rfsk) wrote in message news:<20031002131550.05732.00000212@mb-m10.aol.com>... > << From: arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) >> > > > << A human can change and become non-evil. A vampire can't (without getting a > soul). >> > > Spike did a pretty good job of it. --Actually, he did a good job of it BY MEANS OF getting a soul. Clairel Must-Have-Soul Redemptionist since 2002

2003-10-02 15:42:51-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (reldevik@usa.net)


Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns940865837296Ehouseofusher@216.40.28.70>... > Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote in > news:021020030232073286%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net: > > > Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire > > she's even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming > > qualities. > > > > However. > > > > What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed > > out the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a > > purely evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? > > Wasn't the idea that they were trying to weed out not just the evil but > the especially dangerously evil -- the people who might choose to > conspire against them instead of just goin' with the flow as long as > they still had cushy jobs? (snip) > OTOH, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this idea that Harmony's given > up human blood, because why in the hell would she do that? --Here's an idea I came up with on another thread: As of AtS 5.1 it has been nineteen days since Sunnydale was destroyed and the number of Slayers existing simultaneously in the world was suddenly multiplied to an unprecedented number. Even if a lot of these girls don't have CoW training, or knowledge about vampires, just having a lot of super-powered girls around could have a big impact on the world in only nineteen days. Maybe the area where Harmony was residing happened to have a flukishly large number of new Slayers. At any rate, I fanwank, Harmony was so scared by the sudden proliferation of Slayers that she decided the only way she could survive was by not calling attention to herself through predatory and violent behavior. Hence her "legit" job with a firm that would accept a vampire and even have necro-tempered windows in the office building. How's that for an explanation? Clairel

2003-10-02 15:47:07-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (reldevik@usa.net)


Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns940865837296Ehouseofusher@216.40.28.70>... > Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote in > news:021020030232073286%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net: > > > Spoilers for "Conviction" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like Harmony as much as the next fan of the shows. As a vampire > > she's even more fun, like a bitch-Cordelia without *any* redeeming > > qualities. > > > > However. > > > > What's the point of Lorne auditioning the rest of the staff to weed > > out the evil ones (and the mimes) if they're just going to keep a > > purely evil vampire around as Angel's secretisant? > > Wasn't the idea that they were trying to weed out not just the evil but > the especially dangerously evil -- the people who might choose to > conspire against them instead of just goin' with the flow as long as > they still had cushy jobs? > > After all, on Lorne's list the check-box for "evil" was separate from > the checkbox for "to be fired." > > One of the things that I think works especially well with the new > premise is that it allows for previously unjustifiable character choices > like Our Heroes letting EETs walk around unmolested. After all, if Angel > goes around killing every EET in Wolfram & Hart's employ just because > they happen to be evil murderers, he's gonna sink his new business > partnership pretty darn quick. --I'm glad you brought this up, because it allows me to introduce an idea I came up with on a spoiler thread that few people read. I call it the Churchill Analogy: If our heroes make a habit of double-crossing and messing around with a lot of W&H clients, word will get out in the criminal underworld and the demon underworld, and nobody will want to do business with W&H any more. In other words, the tactic of using W&H insider information to put a stop to evildoing can only work for so long, and then it won't work any more. So if Angel, Wes, Fred, etc., are still good guys, their position is somewhat like that of Winston Churchill after the Germans' Enigma code had been broken by the British. Churchill could read German messages and therefore he knew ahead of time about things like the bombing of Coventry. But if he had sent the RAF in force to Coventry ahead of time, the Germans would have known he was able to read their messages, and they would have changed their code. So Churchill had to just let cities like Coventry be bombed without doing anything out of the ordinary to protect them, because he didn't want to tip the Germans off: he wanted them to keep using their same old codes so that he could keep reading their messages, in the hope that he'd obtain some *really* crucial information. If something big and important enough came up, *then* Churchill would act on the information even if his actions did alert the Germans that the Enigma code had been broken. But the question becomes, what is big and important enough? What is *really* crucial and what isn't? When should a person in Churchill's position act, and when should he stand by and do nothing? You could end up waiting forever, letting bad things happen that you could have stopped, and maybe nothing bigger and worse will ever come up. It seems to me that that is the dilemma Angel and the others are facing in season 5. Just how much evil crap should they tolerate to keep their W&H insider status, and to keep the bad guys trusting W&H and continuing to do business with W&H? It all sounds very much to me like Saruman's line in LOTR about "deploring lesser evils done by the way" (but not interfering with the lesser evils' existence because you've got to keep your eyes on the bigger goal). It is indeed a slippery slope. Clairel

2003-10-02 17:15:50+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM)


<< From: arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) >> << A human can change and become non-evil. A vampire can't (without getting a soul). >> Spike did a pretty good job of it. ___________ "Call the American Teleservices Association, toll-free, at 877-779-3974, and tell them what you think. I'm sure they'd love to hear your constitutionally protected views! Be sure to wipe your mouthpiece afterward,''- Dave Barry

2003-10-02 18:49:46+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote: > Wasn't the idea that they were trying to weed out not just the evil but > the especially dangerously evil -- the people who might choose to > conspire against them instead of just goin' with the flow as long as > they still had cushy jobs? Fine. Even if that is the premise, why not kill Harmony anyways? She's not a person. She's not Harmony. She's just a demon in Harmony's corpse, right? What purpose does she serve? She types. Yay. Wow, couldn't find someone else to do *THAT* could ya'? Staking Harmony would take three seconds, or less. And there would be nothing lost; NOTHING. And then there would be one less vampire running around, and that's A Good Thing. Yes, I understand that Angel can't go around killing off all of his clients. I am not sure that I accept the whole premise, but it could be made to make sense. But what possible reason is there NOT to kill Harmony? Angel asked that same question, and was never given a reason. We as the audience were expected to just accept her presence because of her attempts at what JW apparently thinks is "humor." Is Harmony's continued presence the worst thing about this episode? No. I only wish it were. But it is pathetic, and it is asking an audience to just ignore everything and say "Oh, well, isn't she just the funniest! How could we want her gone?" Blech. -- AE Jabbour "Now do you know what we've become?" "Enemies." "Oh no. Much worse: now we're soulmates." Darla and Lindsey, _Darla_

2003-10-02 18:50:20-05:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com>)


AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in news:blhs0a$c44dv$2@ID- 137314.news.uni-berlin.de: > Yes, I understand that Angel can't go around killing off all > of his clients. I am not sure that I accept the whole premise, > but it could be made to make sense. But what possible reason > is there NOT to kill Harmony? For the same reason that he can't kill all of W&H's evil clients -- because if he did kill her all the other EETs in bed with Wolfram & Hart would start to get pretty nervous about the new CEO. "He killed his own secretary, not for starting an apocalypse or anything, but just because she was a murderer! What the hell is this company coming to, when you can't even murder a few people for food anymore?" -- Lord Usher "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."

2003-10-02 22:30:33-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (pegasuskid@earthlink.net)


AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<blhs0a$c44dv$2@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... > Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Wasn't the idea that they were trying to weed out not just the evil but > > the especially dangerously evil -- the people who might choose to > > conspire against them instead of just goin' with the flow as long as > > they still had cushy jobs? > > Fine. Even if that is the premise, why not kill Harmony anyways? Future storyline maybe? > She's not a person. She's not Harmony. She's just a demon in > Harmony's corpse, right? What purpose does she serve? She types. > Yay. Wow, couldn't find someone else to do *THAT* could ya'? See above... > Staking Harmony would take three seconds, or less. And there > would be nothing lost; NOTHING. And then there would be one > less vampire running around, and that's A Good Thing. > > Yes, I understand that Angel can't go around killing off all > of his clients. I am not sure that I accept the whole premise, > but it could be made to make sense. But what possible reason > is there NOT to kill Harmony? Angel asked that same question, > and was never given a reason. We as the audience were expected > to just accept her presence because of her attempts at what > JW apparently thinks is "humor." Well that is one of the perks when you write your own show. > Is Harmony's continued presence the worst thing about this > episode? No. I only wish it were. But it is pathetic, and > it is asking an audience to just ignore everything and say > "Oh, well, isn't she just the funniest! How could we want > her gone?" Blech. Why do you bother to watch if what you see is really that bad? All you seem to do is complain about the show anyway. Wouldn't it be much easier to find something else to do when the show is on?

2003-10-03 03:15:16+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Ian Galbraith <igalbraith@nospam.com>)


On 2 Oct 2003 11:58:52 -0700, himiko wrote: :Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote in message news:<021020030232073286%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net>... :> Spoilers for "Conviction" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [snip] :And no reason to stake her either. She says she's given up drinking :human blood (and presumably killing humans in the process), and maybe :she really has. The fact that she's come up with a recipe to make :pig's blood taste good suggests that might actually be telling the :truth on this one. This is a pretty big problem IMHO. In fact it is enough to shake the mythological foundations of both series. [snip] -- Ian Galbraith vtnyoenvgu@bmbayvar.pbz.nh (apply ROT13 to email) "Being cool requires no work. Mostly it requires detachment. You can be cool and not care about being cool. Being hip requires both style and effort. You can't be hip without working at it." - The A.I. War by Daniel Keys Moran

2003-10-03 05:51:41-05:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in <Xns940865837296Ehouseofusher@216.40.28.70>: > > OTOH, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this idea that Harmony's given > up human blood, because why in the hell would she do that? Maybe there's a standard clause in her W&H contract that she's not allowed to drink human blood without the express written permission of her supervisor. After all, W&H has a lot of human employees and they can't have their non-human employees munching on them whenever they're feeling peckish. Sure, they might feed a human accountant to his vampire secretary as punishment for blowing the whistle about some of their more creative tax shelters but that's just business. As for why Harmony abides by the contract. There are numerous ways for W&H to enforce its contracts. It could be as simple as the threat of putting them in the sunlit office *without* necro-tempered glass or as complex as having them implanted with a chip made from reverse-engineered Initiative technology. -- "Screw destiny! Destiny's just another word for inevitable. And nothing's inevitable if you stand up, look it in the eye and say, 'You're evitable.'" -- Winifred Burkle Roberto Castillo robertocastillo@ameritech.net http://www.freewebs.com/robertocastillo/

2003-10-03 07:19:10+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote: > AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in news:blhs0a$c44dv$2@ID- > 137314.news.uni-berlin.de: > >> Yes, I understand that Angel can't go around killing off all >> of his clients. I am not sure that I accept the whole premise, >> but it could be made to make sense. But what possible reason >> is there NOT to kill Harmony? > > For the same reason that he can't kill all of W&H's evil clients -- because > if he did kill her all the other EETs in bed with Wolfram & Hart would > start to get pretty nervous about the new CEO. > > "He killed his own secretary, not for starting an apocalypse or anything, > but just because she was a murderer! What the hell is this company coming > to, when you can't even murder a few people for food anymore?" > > -- > Lord Usher > "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you." I'm sorry, that's ludicrous. She is an idiot. Everyone knows she is an idiot. She has always been an idiot. If Angel had staked her, immediately, we could move on. To argue that somehow she should live because she is "funny" is to argue that there is no basic premise to the show. I find that depressing. I find the entire direction the show has gone in depressing. Harmony serves no purpose what so ever. It's ridiculous. -- AE Jabbour "Now do you know what we've become?" "Enemies." "Oh no. Much worse: now we're soulmates." Darla and Lindsey, _Darla_

2003-10-03 07:21:34+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Walt <pegasuskid@earthlink.net> wrote: > Why do you bother to watch if what you see is really that bad? All > you seem to do is complain about the show anyway. Wouldn't it be much > easier to find something else to do when the show is on? Ahh, the "Why don't you quit watching ... " rant? I've heard that one before. I don't know when you started to watch the show. I really don't. I watched it from the first episode on. If I want to complain, I will. Have a nice day. -- AE Jabbour "Now do you know what we've become?" "Enemies." "Oh no. Much worse: now we're soulmates." Darla and Lindsey, _Darla_

2003-10-03 09:14:06-05:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com>)


AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in news:blj7te$csb6k$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de: > Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote: >> AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in >> news:blhs0a$c44dv$2@ID- 137314.news.uni-berlin.de: >> >>> Yes, I understand that Angel can't go around killing off all >>> of his clients. I am not sure that I accept the whole premise, >>> but it could be made to make sense. But what possible reason >>> is there NOT to kill Harmony? >> >> For the same reason that he can't kill all of W&H's evil clients -- >> because if he did kill her all the other EETs in bed with Wolfram & >> Hart would start to get pretty nervous about the new CEO. >> >> "He killed his own secretary, not for starting an apocalypse or >> anything, but just because she was a murderer! What the hell is this >> company coming to, when you can't even murder a few people for food >> anymore?" > > I'm sorry, that's ludicrous. She is an idiot. Everyone knows > she is an idiot. She has always been an idiot. Of course she is. But what does that have to do with what I said? Killing idiot employees is just as likely to make the other employees nervous as killing really smart ones. (I mean, unless Harmony had demonstrated an inability to do her job or something, which she hadn't.) > To argue that somehow she should live because she is > "funny" is to argue that there is no basic premise to > the show. Okay, but I didn't argue that. I feel like you're responding to someone else's post instead of mine... -- Lord Usher "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."

2003-10-03 09:16:02-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (reldevik@usa.net)


AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<blj7te$csb6k$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... > Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote: > > AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in news:blhs0a$c44dv$2@ID- > > 137314.news.uni-berlin.de: > > > >> Yes, I understand that Angel can't go around killing off all > >> of his clients. I am not sure that I accept the whole premise, > >> but it could be made to make sense. But what possible reason > >> is there NOT to kill Harmony? > > > > For the same reason that he can't kill all of W&H's evil clients -- because > > if he did kill her all the other EETs in bed with Wolfram & Hart would > > start to get pretty nervous about the new CEO. > > > > "He killed his own secretary, not for starting an apocalypse or anything, > > but just because she was a murderer! What the hell is this company coming > > to, when you can't even murder a few people for food anymore?" > > > > -- > > Lord Usher > > "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you." > > I'm sorry, that's ludicrous. --No,it's not. It's watertight logic. She is an idiot. Everyone knows > she is an idiot. She has always been an idiot. --You know she's an idiot; I know it; everyone who's spent time listening to Harmony knows it. But to W&H's clients and most W&H employees, she's just a secretary whom they really don't know anything about, except that if Angel killed her they would know *that* (word gets around), and it would tend to have a chilling effect. Who was the eighteenth-century British Admiral whom the Crown executed "pour encourager les autres"? Byng, I think? I imagine that had a pretty chilling effect, too--Voltaire seemed to think so. Clairel

2003-10-03 12:06:59-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (himiko@animail.net)


Ian Galbraith <igalbraith@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<jdqpnvsadlj37aide3klv6agd2ffnmmn3s@4ax.com>... > On 2 Oct 2003 11:58:52 -0700, himiko wrote: > > :Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote in message news:<021020030232073286%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net>... > :> Spoilers for "Conviction" > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > [snip] > > :And no reason to stake her either. She says she's given up drinking > :human blood (and presumably killing humans in the process), and maybe > :she really has. The fact that she's come up with a recipe to make > :pig's blood taste good suggests that might actually be telling the > :truth on this one. > > This is a pretty big problem IMHO. In fact it is enough to shake the > mythological foundations of both series. Why? We've seen other vampires who didn't kill, not because they thought it was wrong (that would violate the mythology), but because they didn't want to draw the kind of attention (dead bodies and missing people) that might cause them to be hunted: the vampire whores. I have no trouble seeing Harmony as a somewhat classier version of this, giving up killing in order to land and keep a glamorous, desirable job. She obviously used to being on diet anyway. Otter is clearly the vampire equivalent of artificial sweetners. himiko

2003-10-03 14:00:35+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Tammy Stephanie Davis <tsd@nospamrobotron.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>)


AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote: : Walt <pegasuskid@earthlink.net> wrote: :> Why do you bother to watch if what you see is really that bad? All :> you seem to do is complain about the show anyway. Wouldn't it be much :> easier to find something else to do when the show is on? : Ahh, the "Why don't you quit watching ... " rant? : I've heard that one before. Gee....I wonder why. : I don't know when you started to watch the show. I really don't. : I watched it from the first episode on. If I want to complain, : I will. Obviously. Look it really obvious that you're getting more and more bitter about this show.

2003-10-03 16:39:07-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (david@creeknet.com)


Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9408BF9C3A027houseofusher@216.40.28.72>... > AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in news:blhs0a$c44dv$2@ID- > 137314.news.uni-berlin.de: > > > Yes, I understand that Angel can't go around killing off all > > of his clients. I am not sure that I accept the whole premise, > > but it could be made to make sense. But what possible reason > > is there NOT to kill Harmony? > > For the same reason that he can't kill all of W&H's evil clients -- because > if he did kill her all the other EETs in bed with Wolfram & Hart would > start to get pretty nervous about the new CEO. > > "He killed his own secretary, not for starting an apocalypse or anything, > but just because she was a murderer! What the hell is this company coming > to, when you can't even murder a few people for food anymore?" The trick is to set up all the evil employees so they will fail, and then kill them in 'anger', just like the old W&H. ;) AI should send Harmony out to, I don't know, find the Holy Grail or something. She won't, and if she did a vampire probably can't carry around the Holy Grail anyway, and if she did manage it, hey, no big loss. Actually, I'm just being silly. AI should do this to the *really* evil employees, instead of firing them. But Harmony is not a really evil employee. Well, she's utterly evil, but she's not *dangerously* evil to the extent that, say, the client this episode was. The *dangerous* evil is the top priority, be they reformable or not reformable. After that worry about soulless evil things. You know what they should do with Harmony? Ask Spike to tell her that she needs a soul. She'd go get one. (Whether a souled vampire Harmony would be less a killer is a very interesting question.)

2003-10-03 16:48:11-04:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message news:1faed770.0310030816.532d39d7@posting.google.com... > AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<blj7te$csb6k$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... > > Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in news:blhs0a$c44dv$2@ID- > > > 137314.news.uni-berlin.de: > > > > > >> Yes, I understand that Angel can't go around killing off all > > >> of his clients. I am not sure that I accept the whole premise, > > >> but it could be made to make sense. But what possible reason > > >> is there NOT to kill Harmony? > > > > > > For the same reason that he can't kill all of W&H's evil clients -- because > > > if he did kill her all the other EETs in bed with Wolfram & Hart would > > > start to get pretty nervous about the new CEO. > > > > > > "He killed his own secretary, not for starting an apocalypse or anything, > > > but just because she was a murderer! What the hell is this company coming > > > to, when you can't even murder a few people for food anymore?" > > > > > > -- > > > Lord Usher > > > "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you." > > > > I'm sorry, that's ludicrous. > > --No,it's not. It's watertight logic. > > She is an idiot. Everyone knows > > she is an idiot. She has always been an idiot. > > --You know she's an idiot; I know it; everyone who's spent time > listening to Harmony knows it. But to W&H's clients and most W&H > employees, she's just a > secretary whom they really don't know anything about, except that if > Angel killed her they would know *that* (word gets around), and it > would tend to have a chilling effect.

2003-10-03 20:00:15-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (dlpulver@telus.net)


Ian Galbraith <igalbraith@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<jdqpnvsadlj37aide3klv6agd2ffnmmn3s@4ax.com>... > On 2 Oct 2003 11:58:52 -0700, himiko wrote: > > :Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote in message news:<021020030232073286%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net>... > :> Spoilers for "Conviction" > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > [snip] > > :And no reason to stake her either. She says she's given up drinking > :human blood (and presumably killing humans in the process), and maybe > :she really has. The fact that she's come up with a recipe to make > :pig's blood taste good suggests that might actually be telling the > :truth on this one. > > This is a pretty big problem IMHO. In fact it is enough to shake the > mythological foundations of both series. Nah. Harmony gets a pass for the same reason that Vampire Willow got sent back instead of staked. Pity. Look it up. "She's not human, she's a demon." Sure. But as *Angel* knows, a vampire *does* retain the personality of its host. Killing Harmony-the-vampire means destroying what is left of Harmony. The same things that made Harmony somewhat annoying as a human make her less dangerous as a vampire than, say, the average human street thug or human semi-baddie. Also, there seems to be a thing about vampires. A new-made vampire is dangerous and deadly. Its personality is submerged by the desire to feed, it feels strong, amoral, like nothing in its old life mattered. (See Xander's newly vamped friend explaining this right at the begining of Buffy season 1). He will kill without remorse and also be an eager pawn of its creator. Killing him is a good thing - it will save human lives. An *experienced* vampire is a lot different. Even without the chip, Spike was capable of making decisions to fight to save the world, even if for selfish purposes. Harmony is a vampire who has enough personality to stand on her own feet, even if she trips over them every so often. She has got past the mindless killing machine stage. Now, if she was one of those repressed types, she might turn into a mass murderer - but she isn't.

2003-10-04 04:12:43-05:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com>)


Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote in news:041020030230568682%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net: >> > I'm sorry, that's ludicrous. She is an idiot. Everyone knows >> > she is an idiot. She has always been an idiot. >> >> Of course she is. But what does that have to do with what I said? >> Killing idiot employees is just as likely to make the other employees >> nervous as killing really smart ones. (I mean, unless Harmony had >> demonstrated an inability to do her job or something, which she hadn't.) > > Hello! Those people work for W&H. Summary executions for things like > being annoying are just part of the office politics there. I don't recall any W&H employee who was killed for such a petty reason. Lee Mercer: Shot in the head for trying to defect to another firm and take clients with him. Linwood Murrow: Beheaded for failing to perform his job adequately by decree of the Senior Partners. Half of middle-management: "Sacked" (using actual sacks) during the Senior Partners' 75-year review in the '20s. Lab guy: Set on fire for doing unauthorized work for a client. Am I forgetting someone here? It seems clear to me that W&H generally only kills its employees if they're incompetent or treasonous -- the exact two things Harmony insisted she *wasn't*. -- Lord Usher "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."

2003-10-04 06:23:46+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net>)


In article <blj7te$csb6k$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>, AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote: > Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote: > > AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in news:blhs0a$c44dv$2@ID- > > 137314.news.uni-berlin.de: > > > >> Yes, I understand that Angel can't go around killing off all > >> of his clients. I am not sure that I accept the whole premise, > >> but it could be made to make sense. But what possible reason > >> is there NOT to kill Harmony? > > > > For the same reason that he can't kill all of W&H's evil clients -- because > > if he did kill her all the other EETs in bed with Wolfram & Hart would > > start to get pretty nervous about the new CEO. > > > > "He killed his own secretary, not for starting an apocalypse or anything, > > but just because she was a murderer! What the hell is this company coming > > to, when you can't even murder a few people for food anymore?" > > > > -- > > Lord Usher > > "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you." > > I'm sorry, that's ludicrous. She is an idiot. Everyone knows > she is an idiot. She has always been an idiot. > > If Angel had staked her, immediately, we could move on. > > To argue that somehow she should live because she is > "funny" is to argue that there is no basic premise to > the show. > > I find that depressing. I find the entire direction the > show has gone in depressing. The only reason I'm sticking with the show (for now) is that I was thinking the exact same kind of thing at the end of "Awakening." Right now I think this reboot premise is a braindead move on the part of the characters. But I also bought into Angel's "Raiders" fantasy, so what do I know? -- rob m at rob myers dot net

2003-10-04 06:25:10+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net>)


In article <Xns94095DD8462C1houseofusher@216.40.28.70>, Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote: > AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in > news:blj7te$csb6k$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de: > > > Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in > >> news:blhs0a$c44dv$2@ID- 137314.news.uni-berlin.de: > >> > >>> Yes, I understand that Angel can't go around killing off all > >>> of his clients. I am not sure that I accept the whole premise, > >>> but it could be made to make sense. But what possible reason > >>> is there NOT to kill Harmony? > >> > >> For the same reason that he can't kill all of W&H's evil clients -- > >> because if he did kill her all the other EETs in bed with Wolfram & > >> Hart would start to get pretty nervous about the new CEO. > >> > >> "He killed his own secretary, not for starting an apocalypse or > >> anything, but just because she was a murderer! What the hell is this > >> company coming to, when you can't even murder a few people for food > >> anymore?" > > > > I'm sorry, that's ludicrous. She is an idiot. Everyone knows > > she is an idiot. She has always been an idiot. > > Of course she is. But what does that have to do with what I said? > Killing idiot employees is just as likely to make the other employees > nervous as killing really smart ones. (I mean, unless Harmony had > demonstrated an inability to do her job or something, which she hadn't.) Hello! Those people work for W&H. Summary executions for things like being annoying are just part of the office politics there. -- rob m at rob myers dot net

2003-10-04 06:28:05+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net>)


In article <jdqpnvsadlj37aide3klv6agd2ffnmmn3s@4ax.com>, Ian Galbraith <igalbraith@nospam.com> wrote: > On 2 Oct 2003 11:58:52 -0700, himiko wrote: > > :Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote in message > :news:<021020030232073286%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net>... > :> Spoilers for "Conviction" > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > [snip] > > :And no reason to stake her either. She says she's given up drinking > :human blood (and presumably killing humans in the process), and maybe > :she really has. The fact that she's come up with a recipe to make > :pig's blood taste good suggests that might actually be telling the > :truth on this one. > > This is a pretty big problem IMHO. In fact it is enough to shake the > mythological foundations of both series. Nah. Harmony swearing off human blood will last just as long as it's convenient for her. God help any humans that get stuck in an elevator with her right before lunch time. -- rob m at rob myers dot net

2003-10-04 11:37:55+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Ian Galbraith <igalbraith@nospam.com>)


On 3 Oct 2003 12:06:59 -0700, himiko wrote: :Ian Galbraith <igalbraith@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<jdqpnvsadlj37aide3klv6agd2ffnmmn3s@4ax.com>... :> On 2 Oct 2003 11:58:52 -0700, himiko wrote: [snip] :> :And no reason to stake her either. She says she's given up drinking :> :human blood (and presumably killing humans in the process), and maybe :> :she really has. The fact that she's come up with a recipe to make :> :pig's blood taste good suggests that might actually be telling the :> :truth on this one. :> This is a pretty big problem IMHO. In fact it is enough to shake the :> mythological foundations of both series. :Why? We've seen other vampires who didn't kill, not because they :thought it was wrong (that would violate the mythology), but because :they didn't want to draw the kind of attention (dead bodies and :missing people) that might cause them to be hunted: the vampire :whores. They still got human blood, they still drank from humans. [snip]

2003-10-04 15:56:41+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Gert Wallage <gwallage@telus.com.net>)


> You know what they should do with Harmony? Ask Spike to > tell her that she needs a soul. She'd go get one. (Whether a > souled vampire Harmony would be less a killer is a very > interesting question.) You know, this would make a nifty fanfic challenge. Is there an alt.tv.angel.creative group yet? Gert

2003-10-04 21:07:08+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (snds15@cs.com)


>Subject: Re: Harmony's fun and all ... >From: Lord Usher lord_usher@hotmail.com >Date: 10/4/2003 5:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time >Message-id: <Xns940A28FCCFEBhouseofusher@216.40.28.70> > >Lee Mercer: Shot in the head for trying to defect to another firm and take >clients with him. > >Linwood Murrow: Beheaded for failing to perform his job adequately by >decree of the Senior Partners. > >Half of middle-management: "Sacked" (using actual sacks) during the Senior >Partners' 75-year review in the '20s. > >Lab guy: Set on fire for doing unauthorized work for a client. > >Am I forgetting someone here? It seems clear to me that W&H generally only >kills its employees if they're incompetent or treasonous -- the exact two >things Harmony insisted she *wasn't*. > >-- >Lord Usher >"I'm here to kill you, not to judge you." > > There were those people used as donors of organs and body parts- remember one of them gave Lindsey his "Evil Hand"? I think they were employees, or former employees, of W&H. Sandra

2003-10-04 21:46:40+01:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk>)


David L. Pulver <dlpulver@telus.net> wrote: > Ian Galbraith <igalbraith@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<jdqpnvsadlj37aide3klv6agd2ffnmmn3s@4ax.com>... >> On 2 Oct 2003 11:58:52 -0700, himiko wrote: >> >> :Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net> wrote in message news:<021020030232073286%robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net>... >> :> Spoilers for "Conviction" >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . > Nah. Harmony gets a pass for the same reason that Vampire Willow got > sent back instead of staked. Pity. Look it up. > "She's not human, she's a demon." Sure. But as *Angel* knows, a > vampire *does* retain the personality of its host. Killing Indeed he has to quickly bite his tounge when mentioning Vamp Willow. > Harmony-the-vampire means destroying what is left of Harmony. The same > things that made Harmony somewhat annoying as a human make her less > dangerous as a vampire than, say, the average human street thug or > human semi-baddie. > Also, there seems to be a thing about vampires. > A new-made vampire is dangerous and deadly. Its personality is > submerged by the desire to feed, it feels strong, amoral, like nothing > in its old life mattered. (See Xander's newly vamped friend explaining > this right at the begining of Buffy season 1). He will kill without > remorse and also be an eager pawn of its creator. Killing him is a > good thing - it will save human lives. > An *experienced* vampire is a lot different. Even without the chip, > Spike was capable of making decisions to fight to save the world, even The best example of this is Darla, who goes from being competly feral to a 400 odd year old master vampire capable to outwitting Wolfram and Hart in the course of one episode.

2003-10-04 22:15:42+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>)


Gert Wallage wrote: >>You know what they should do with Harmony? Ask Spike to >>tell her that she needs a soul. She'd go get one. (Whether a >>souled vampire Harmony would be less a killer is a very >>interesting question.) > > > You know, this would make a nifty fanfic challenge. > > Is there an alt.tv.angel.creative group yet? > > Gert > > The buffy.creative group is for Angel fanfic too and isn't all that high traffic. Mostly the fics are BtVS; possibly, as time goes by, more new fics will be Angel based; I don't know. Jane -- Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html http://www.fanfiction.net/~Jane Davitt

2003-10-04 23:43:33+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - ("George W. Harris" <gharrus@mundsprung.com>)


david@creeknet.com (David Cheatham) wrote: :You know what they should do with Harmony? Ask Spike to tell her that :she needs a soul. She'd go get one. She'd die trying. Do you really think she could pass those tests? You could get Willow to curse her... -- Doesn't the fact that there are *exactly* fifty states seem a little suspicious? George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'

2003-10-05 02:53:12-07:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (dlpulver@telus.net)


reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0310021437.538a7fda@posting.google.com>... > anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM (ANIM8Rfsk) wrote in message news:<20031002131550.05732.00000212@mb-m10.aol.com>... > > << From: arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) >> > > > > > > << A human can change and become non-evil. A vampire can't (without getting a > > soul). >> > > > > Spike did a pretty good job of it. > > --Actually, he did a good job of it BY MEANS OF getting a soul. > > Clairel > Must-Have-Soul Redemptionist since 2002 He helped save the world even before he got a chip. If the west gave Stalin a pass during WWII, they can do the same for Spike.

2003-10-05 10:50:30-04:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <7f0aeeac.0310050153.398d7e61@posting.google.com>, dlpulver@telus.net (David L. Pulver) wrote: > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message > news:<1faed770.0310021437.538a7fda@posting.google.com>... > > anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM (ANIM8Rfsk) wrote in message > > news:<20031002131550.05732.00000212@mb-m10.aol.com>... > > > << From: arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) >> > > > > > > > > > << A human can change and become non-evil. A vampire can't (without > > > getting a > > > soul). >> > > > > > > Spike did a pretty good job of it. > > > > --Actually, he did a good job of it BY MEANS OF getting a soul. > > > > Clairel > > Must-Have-Soul Redemptionist since 2002 > > He helped save the world even before he got a chip. If the west gave > Stalin a pass during WWII, they can do the same for Spike. Gee... and that turned out so great. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let the Darwin Fishes swim! www.darwin-fish.com/fish.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-10-06 05:29:04+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote: > AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in > news:blj7te$csb6k$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de: > >> I'm sorry, that's ludicrous. She is an idiot. Everyone knows >> she is an idiot. She has always been an idiot. > > Of course she is. But what does that have to do with what I said? > Killing idiot employees is just as likely to make the other employees > nervous as killing really smart ones. (I mean, unless Harmony had > demonstrated an inability to do her job or something, which she hadn't.) How would anyone even notice? Oh, wow, that ditzy, annoying vampire isn't around anymore. What a shock. Why would anyone care? She's an evil vampire who can't possibly contribute in any way. >> To argue that somehow she should live because she is >> "funny" is to argue that there is no basic premise to >> the show. > > Okay, but I didn't argue that. I feel like you're responding to someone > else's post instead of mine... > > -- > Lord Usher > "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you." OK. But I can't see why anyone would miss Harmony. I also doubt that many people at W&H would even miss her. The biggest problem is that an answer was never given to Angel's original question. Essentially, we are supposed to accept her continued presence without any possible reason given to do so. That's just sloppy writing. If the writers intended that we were to assume that it would make all the other employees and clients "nervous" if Harmony were staked (I'm sorry, that's just really funny) then they should have indicated it. Why have Angel ask the question, and then ignore it? -- AE Jabbour "Now do you know what we've become?" "Enemies." "Oh no. Much worse: now we're soulmates." Darla and Lindsey, _Darla_

2003-10-06 15:16:19+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net wrote: >The biggest problem is that an answer was never given >to Angel's original question. Essentially, we are supposed >to accept her continued presence without any possible reason >given to do so. > >Why have Angel ask the question, and then ignore it? "Oh oh, Mr. Kot-tar! Mr. Kot-tar!" It's for the writers to tweak those viewers who actually want the show to make writing sense and have few flaws. See, average viewers won't care. The slobbering squealing Spike fans won't care. Only those who look at the writing will care. It's there to piss them off. Harm could have been staked immediately with Wes telling the employees that Angel has a problem with soulless vampires. It's a selfloathing thang. So the 99% of the steno pool who aren't vampires have nothing to worry about, evil or not. We who analyze the writing will cringe and bitch and moan about it. Music to ME's ears cause we're the ones they want to piss off. Guesss they don't have cable. :-) Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-14 15:43:18+00:00 - Re: Harmony's fun and all ... - (samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com)


On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 15:56:41 GMT, "Gert Wallage" <gwallage@telus.com.net> wrote: >> You know what they should do with Harmony? Ask Spike to >> tell her that she needs a soul. She'd go get one. (Whether a >> souled vampire Harmony would be less a killer is a very >> interesting question.) > >You know, this would make a nifty fanfic challenge. > >Is there an alt.tv.angel.creative group yet? Hmm, but why would she need one? Would it really make a difference in her behavior?