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2004-04-06 13:29:58-07:00 - "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (reldevik@usa.net)


Posting to both the Angel NG and the Buffy NG because it has a bearing not only on the BtVS past but also on the AtS present, with Spike currently on that show. It's interesting to hear the commentary by Joss Whedon on the BtVS finale, Chosen, included in the BtVS season 7 DVDs, tells what Joss said to Sarah Michelle Gellar and and James Marsters about how to act their final scene together, when Buffy takes leave of Spike. To Gellar, Joss said "Love him when you tell him you love him." To Marsters, Joss said "Love her when you tell her she doesn't." I just thought that was so sweet. And it certainly confirms that Buffy loving Spike was what the author always intended (even if Spike couldn't believe it). It's what I always saw in that scene, and what I always believed. But I also believe both Spike and Buffy are--well, I won't say cookie dough, but works in progress anyway--and so it's best they spend some time apart, maturing and developing separately. I like to imagine them meeting a few years in the future and deciding they both want to be together. Of course Buffy will have to make Spike realize the depth of her feelings for him. Certainly nothing precludes this. Sorry if this Joss quote has already been discussed on another thead; if so, I missed it. Clairel

2004-04-06 20:32:00-07:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (Anton Sherwood <news@ogre.nu>)


Clairel wrote: > . . . included in the BtVS season 7 DVDs, . . . ?! -- Anton Sherwood (prepend "1" to address) http://www.ogre.nu/

2004-04-07 06:08:15+00:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (Chris Zabel <alephnull@earthlink.net>)


I thought SMG did a decent job with that scene and did what Joss told her to do. I think JM inserted his own view of the scene into his performance though and frankly Spike's reaction doesn't work for me in that context. -- "They tease me now, telling me it was only a dream. But does it matter whether it was a dream or reality, if the dream made known to me the truth?" - Dostoevsky

2004-04-07 09:21:26+00:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (Aethelrede <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net>)


alphakitten wrote in message <4073BDEC.1050005@netscape.net>... > > >Chris Zabel wrote: >> I thought SMG did a decent job with that scene and did what Joss told her to >> do. I think JM inserted his own view of the scene into his performance >> though and frankly Spike's reaction doesn't work for me in that context.> > >What would you have had him do? I figure that makes Spike the number one character in the show besides Buffy. They both died, and both saved the world. If there is ever a sequel. which we all know there won't be, it would have to be Buffy, Spike and Dawn. Guests, Willow and Giles.

2004-04-07 13:02:59+00:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (Diane Wilson <diane@firelily.com>)


In article <40737703.4060101@netscape.net>, alphakittenx@netscape.net says... > > > Anton Sherwood wrote: > > Clairel wrote: > > > >> . . . included in the BtVS season 7 DVDs, . . . > > > > > > ?! > > > > > The R2 release just came out. And I don't get it, why R2 DVDs of series come out many months before R1. Same thing is happening with The West Wing. Diane

2004-04-07 13:35:31+10:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (alphakitten <alphakittenx@netscape.net>)


Anton Sherwood wrote: > Clairel wrote: > >> . . . included in the BtVS season 7 DVDs, . . . > > > ?! > The R2 release just came out. ~Angel

2004-04-07 14:20:21+01:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (vague disclaimer <dwqe-b2l8@dea.spamcon.org>)


In article <MPG.1addc61351f4346c989696@news-server>, Diane Wilson <diane@firelily.com> wrote: > In article <40737703.4060101@netscape.net>, alphakittenx@netscape.net > says... > > > > > > Anton Sherwood wrote: > > > Clairel wrote: > > > > > >> . . . included in the BtVS season 7 DVDs, . . . > > > > > > > > > ?! > > > > > > > > > The R2 release just came out. > > > And I don't get it, why R2 DVDs of series come out many months > before R1. Same thing is happening with The West Wing. > > > Diane Possibly because we don't have (and have never really had) the syndication/rerun market to take into account. -- A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend

2004-04-07 14:56:50-07:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (reldevik@usa.net)


"Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<jVMcc.13904$yN6.936@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>... > I thought SMG did a decent job with that scene and did what Joss told her to > do. I think JM inserted his own view of the scene into his performance > though and frankly Spike's reaction doesn't work for me in that context. --Well, when Spike was saying goodby to Buffy I could definitely see his love for her in his eyes and smile, and I could hear it in his voice. Joss's direction to JM was "Love her when you say she doesn't," and I think JM carried out that direction very well. Maybe you're referring to the fact that James Marsters has said he believes Buffy is still in love with Angel and always will be. So? In the goodby scene in "Chosen," it's plain that Spike did believe Buffy didn't love him (Spike). He said so: "No, you don't. But thanks for saying it." What Spike believes about Buffy's feelings is a totally different matter from the way she really feels--the latter is something that has to come through in SMG's acting. It can't come through in JM's acting. What can come through in JM's acting is that Spike believed Buffy didn't love him, but he loved her anyway. JM's task was to convey that, and he did convey it. SMG had a different task given to her by Joss. Maybe the actress never really did "get it"; I think I vaguely remember her saying some things in interviews since then about Buffy's continuing love for Angel. Maybe SMG really believes that, or maybe she was just trying to please the B/A shippers with a lot of empty words. But regardless of all that, her acting in "Chosen" was such that I could believe Buffy loved Spike even if Spike himself couldn't see it. I really only care about what's on screen and what the writers say. The writers are the ones who decide the course of events; the actors do not. I don't ever let what JM or SMG says in an interview upset me. But when Joss talks about his intentions and ideas, that can either upset or please me, depending on what he says. This time, it pleased me very much. Clairel

2004-04-07 18:38:04+10:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (alphakitten <alphakittenx@netscape.net>)


Chris Zabel wrote: > I thought SMG did a decent job with that scene and did what Joss told her to > do. I think JM inserted his own view of the scene into his performance > though and frankly Spike's reaction doesn't work for me in that context. > > -- > "They tease me now, telling me it was only a dream. But does it matter > whether it was a dream or reality, if the dream made known to me the > truth?" - Dostoevsky > What would you have had him do? ~Angel

2004-04-07 21:18:42-04:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (-Andy- <see2go4me@spamworm.yahoo.com>)


In article <dwqe-b2l8-EF88AE.00233608042004@mercury.nildram.net>, vague disclaimer <dwqe-b2l8@dea.spamcon.org> wrote: > In article <Uk%cc.502$904.445@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net>, > "John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote: > > > Diane Wilson wrote: > > > In article <dwqe-b2l8-8751C3.14202107042004@mercury.nildram.net>, > > > dwqe-b2l8 @dea.spamcon.org says... > > >> In article <MPG.1addc61351f4346c989696@news-server>, > > >> Diane Wilson <diane@firelily.com> wrote: > > > > > >>> And I don't get it, why R2 DVDs of series come out many months > > >>> before R1. Same thing is happening with The West Wing. > > >> Possibly because we don't have (and have never really had) the > > >> syndication/rerun market to take into account. > The (real or perceived) relative values of the two channels has quite > possibly changed a tad since then. At the time we were getting S1 (since > there was no other high value outlet),the US companies may have believed > there was value to be squeezed from syndication. At some point someone (a regular poster) DID explain all this. If I recall correctly, the reason for the delay in BtVS DVD releases in R1 was due to syndication issues in the US. They waited a certain amount of time after it went into syndication before releasing it on DVD in an attempt to maximize their profits. And they can't change it. Some time after the Buffy syndication deal the theory behind such staggered releases changed. Which explains why Angel made it to DVD a lot faster in R1 than Buffy. There are a number of shows showing up on DVD long before they even reach syndication. of course, even failed shows are ending up on DVD as soon as they are cancelled. Check out your local DVD store... it's amazing what you'll see... -- see2go4me@yahoo.com http://radio.weblogs.com/0104508/

2004-04-07 22:08:35+00:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (Diane Wilson <diane@firelily.com>)


In article <dwqe-b2l8-8751C3.14202107042004@mercury.nildram.net>, dwqe-b2l8 @dea.spamcon.org says... > In article <MPG.1addc61351f4346c989696@news-server>, > Diane Wilson <diane@firelily.com> wrote: > > And I don't get it, why R2 DVDs of series come out many months > > before R1. Same thing is happening with The West Wing. > > > > Possibly because we don't have (and have never really had) the > syndication/rerun market to take into account. Makes sense, but since I only watch television series on DVD, it sure does make a long wait between seasons. Diane

2004-04-07 23:33:41+01:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com>)


Diane Wilson wrote: > In article <dwqe-b2l8-8751C3.14202107042004@mercury.nildram.net>, > dwqe-b2l8 @dea.spamcon.org says... >> In article <MPG.1addc61351f4346c989696@news-server>, >> Diane Wilson <diane@firelily.com> wrote: > >>> And I don't get it, why R2 DVDs of series come out many months >>> before R1. Same thing is happening with The West Wing. >>> >> >> Possibly because we don't have (and have never really had) the >> syndication/rerun market to take into account. > > > Makes sense, but since I only watch television series on > DVD, it sure does make a long wait between seasons. > No, it doesn't. The R1 sets of BtVS have been issued consistently at six-month intervals. -- John Briggs

2004-04-08 00:23:36+01:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (vague disclaimer <dwqe-b2l8@dea.spamcon.org>)


In article <Uk%cc.502$904.445@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net>, "John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote: > Diane Wilson wrote: > > In article <dwqe-b2l8-8751C3.14202107042004@mercury.nildram.net>, > > dwqe-b2l8 @dea.spamcon.org says... > >> In article <MPG.1addc61351f4346c989696@news-server>, > >> Diane Wilson <diane@firelily.com> wrote: > > > >>> And I don't get it, why R2 DVDs of series come out many months > >>> before R1. Same thing is happening with The West Wing. > >>> > >> > >> Possibly because we don't have (and have never really had) the > >> syndication/rerun market to take into account. > > > > > > Makes sense, but since I only watch television series on > > DVD, it sure does make a long wait between seasons. > > > > No, it doesn't. The R1 sets of BtVS have been issued consistently at > six-month intervals. So what? S1/R1 came out a long time after R2, so that we were on S6 when they were just about getting S3 or 4. The (real or perceived) relative values of the two channels has quite possibly changed a tad since then. At the time we were getting S1 (since there was no other high value outlet),the US companies may have believed there was value to be squeezed from syndication. But even if that view has changed, elementary marketing would still be 'don't put them all out at once', so R1 stays a long way behind. Thus the spacing of release in the R1 is unrelated to the gap between the release of S1 in R2 and R1 and the consequent catch up R1 is doing. Or perhaps the US companies initially underestimated the value of the DVD market (which I suspect adds up to the same thing). -- A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend

2004-04-08 00:32:55+01:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com>)


vague disclaimer wrote: > In article <Uk%cc.502$904.445@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net>, > "John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote: > >> Diane Wilson wrote: >>> In article <dwqe-b2l8-8751C3.14202107042004@mercury.nildram.net>, >>> dwqe-b2l8 @dea.spamcon.org says... >>>> In article <MPG.1addc61351f4346c989696@news-server>, >>>> Diane Wilson <diane@firelily.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> And I don't get it, why R2 DVDs of series come out many months >>>>> before R1. Same thing is happening with The West Wing. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Possibly because we don't have (and have never really had) the >>>> syndication/rerun market to take into account. >>> >>> >>> Makes sense, but since I only watch television series on >>> DVD, it sure does make a long wait between seasons. >>> >> >> No, it doesn't. The R1 sets of BtVS have been issued consistently at >> six-month intervals. > > So what? S1/R1 came out a long time after R2, so that we were on S6 when > they were just about getting S3 or 4. > > The (real or perceived) relative values of the two channels has quite > possibly changed a tad since then. At the time we were getting S1 (since > there was no other high value outlet),the US companies may have believed > there was value to be squeezed from syndication. > > But even if that view has changed, elementary marketing would still be > 'don't put them all out at once', so R1 stays a long way behind. > > Thus the spacing of release in the R1 is unrelated to the gap between > the release of S1 in R2 and R1 and the consequent catch up R1 is doing. > > Or perhaps the US companies initially underestimated the value of the > DVD market (which I suspect adds up to the same thing). But the the point at issue was "it sure does make a long wait between seasons", which is demonstrably untrue. And as "I only watch television series on DVD" the only delay is *before* S1. Don't forget that R2 had an 11-month gap between the S6 and S7 sets: isn't that "a long wait between seasons"? -- John Briggs

2004-04-08 01:03:39+00:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (Diane Wilson <diane@firelily.com>)


In article <Uk%cc.502$904.445@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net>, john.briggs4 @ntlworld.com says... > Diane Wilson wrote: > > In article <dwqe-b2l8-8751C3.14202107042004@mercury.nildram.net>, > > dwqe-b2l8 @dea.spamcon.org says... > >> In article <MPG.1addc61351f4346c989696@news-server>, > >> Diane Wilson <diane@firelily.com> wrote: > > > >>> And I don't get it, why R2 DVDs of series come out many months > >>> before R1. Same thing is happening with The West Wing. > >>> > >> > >> Possibly because we don't have (and have never really had) the > >> syndication/rerun market to take into account. > > > > > > Makes sense, but since I only watch television series on > > DVD, it sure does make a long wait between seasons. > > > > No, it doesn't. The R1 sets of BtVS have been issued consistently at > six-month intervals. > OK, six months between seasons for DVD. Roughly three months between seasons if you're watching broadcast. Six months is a long time to wait for resolution of a season-end cliffhanger. Diane

2004-04-08 06:01:25+00:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (Chris Zabel <alephnull@earthlink.net>)


"alphakitten" <alphakittenx@netscape.net> wrote in message news:4073BDEC.1050005@netscape.net... > What would you have had him do? Just going by JM's facial expressions in that last scene, you never really get the sense that Spike has his "moment" where he gets "it", whatever "it" means(the love from Buffy, contentment, his impending peace, being the hero, etc). To be honest the dialogue didn't help much either. Whedon could've written what he wanted Spike to get across more eloquently than what we got in that final moment. -- "They tease me now, telling me it was only a dream. But does it matter whether it was a dream or reality, if the dream made known to me the truth?" - Dostoevsky

2004-04-08 09:31:27+01:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (vague disclaimer <dwqe-b2l8@dea.spamcon.org>)


In article <qc0dc.511$904.358@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net>, "John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>>> And I don't get it, why R2 DVDs of series come out many months > >>>>> before R1. Same thing is happening with The West Wing. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Possibly because we don't have (and have never really had) the > >>>> syndication/rerun market to take into account. > >>> > >>> > >>> Makes sense, but since I only watch television series on > >>> DVD, it sure does make a long wait between seasons. > >>> > >> > >> No, it doesn't. The R1 sets of BtVS have been issued consistently at > >> six-month intervals. > > > > So what? S1/R1 came out a long time after R2, so that we were on S6 when > > they were just about getting S3 or 4. > > > > The (real or perceived) relative values of the two channels has quite > > possibly changed a tad since then. At the time we were getting S1 (since > > there was no other high value outlet),the US companies may have believed > > there was value to be squeezed from syndication. > > > > But even if that view has changed, elementary marketing would still be > > 'don't put them all out at once', so R1 stays a long way behind. > > > > Thus the spacing of release in the R1 is unrelated to the gap between > > the release of S1 in R2 and R1 and the consequent catch up R1 is doing. > > > > Or perhaps the US companies initially underestimated the value of the > > DVD market (which I suspect adds up to the same thing). > > But the the point at issue was "it sure does make a long wait between > seasons", which is demonstrably untrue. And as "I only watch television > series on DVD" the only delay is *before* S1. Don't forget that R2 had an > 11-month gap between the S6 and S7 sets: isn't that "a long wait between > seasons"? Yes, but I was addressing the original question (at the top). -- A vague disclaimer is nobody's friend

2004-04-09 05:28:35-04:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (zzn <zzn@nospam.com>)


On 6 Apr 2004 13:29:58 -0700, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: >Posting to both the Angel NG and the Buffy NG because it has a bearing >not only on the BtVS past but also on the AtS present, with Spike >currently on that show. > >It's interesting to hear the commentary by Joss Whedon on the BtVS >finale, Chosen, included in the BtVS season 7 DVDs, tells what Joss >said to Sarah Michelle Gellar and and James Marsters about how to act >their final scene together, when Buffy takes leave of Spike. > >To Gellar, Joss said "Love him when you tell him you love him." > >To Marsters, Joss said "Love her when you tell her she doesn't." > >I just thought that was so sweet. And it certainly confirms that >Buffy loving Spike was what the author always intended (even if Spike >couldn't believe it). It's what I always saw in that scene, and what >I always believed. > >But I also believe both Spike and Buffy are--well, I won't say cookie >dough, but works in progress anyway--and so it's best they spend some >time apart, maturing and developing separately. I like to imagine >them meeting a few years in the future and deciding they both want to >be together. Of course Buffy will have to make Spike realize the >depth of her feelings for him. Certainly nothing precludes this. > >Sorry if this Joss quote has already been discussed on another thead; >if so, I missed it. > >Clairel Joss is on crack.

2004-04-09 09:39:11-07:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (reldevik@usa.net)


zzn <zzn@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<j5rc701jv8mh9s4c46s2e0pif14msql8td@4ax.com>... > On 6 Apr 2004 13:29:58 -0700, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: > > >Posting to both the Angel NG and the Buffy NG because it has a bearing > >not only on the BtVS past but also on the AtS present, with Spike > >currently on that show. > > > >It's interesting to hear the commentary by Joss Whedon on the BtVS > >finale, Chosen, included in the BtVS season 7 DVDs, tells what Joss > >said to Sarah Michelle Gellar and and James Marsters about how to act > >their final scene together, when Buffy takes leave of Spike. > > > >To Gellar, Joss said "Love him when you tell him you love him." > > > >To Marsters, Joss said "Love her when you tell her she doesn't." > > > >I just thought that was so sweet. And it certainly confirms that > >Buffy loving Spike was what the author always intended (even if Spike > >couldn't believe it). It's what I always saw in that scene, and what > >I always believed. > > > >But I also believe both Spike and Buffy are--well, I won't say cookie > >dough, but works in progress anyway--and so it's best they spend some > >time apart, maturing and developing separately. I like to imagine > >them meeting a few years in the future and deciding they both want to > >be together. Of course Buffy will have to make Spike realize the > >depth of her feelings for him. Certainly nothing precludes this. > > > >Sorry if this Joss quote has already been discussed on another thead; > >if so, I missed it. > > > >Clairel > > Joss is on crack. --Would you care to elucidate? What you wrote doesn't tell me much. Clairel

2004-04-11 01:33:15+00:00 - Re: "Chosen": Joss's acting directions to James and Sarah - (nimue <cup_o_cakesNOSPAM@yahoo.com>)


Clairel wrote: > zzn <zzn@nospam.com> wrote in message > news:<j5rc701jv8mh9s4c46s2e0pif14msql8td@4ax.com>... >> On 6 Apr 2004 13:29:58 -0700, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: >> >>> Posting to both the Angel NG and the Buffy NG because it has a >>> bearing not only on the BtVS past but also on the AtS present, with >>> Spike currently on that show. >>> >>> It's interesting to hear the commentary by Joss Whedon on the BtVS >>> finale, Chosen, included in the BtVS season 7 DVDs, tells what Joss >>> said to Sarah Michelle Gellar and and James Marsters about how to >>> act their final scene together, when Buffy takes leave of Spike. >>> >>> To Gellar, Joss said "Love him when you tell him you love him." >>> >>> To Marsters, Joss said "Love her when you tell her she doesn't." >>> >>> I just thought that was so sweet. And it certainly confirms that >>> Buffy loving Spike was what the author always intended (even if >>> Spike couldn't believe it). It's what I always saw in that scene, >>> and what I always believed. >>> >>> But I also believe both Spike and Buffy are--well, I won't say >>> cookie dough, but works in progress anyway--and so it's best they >>> spend some time apart, maturing and developing separately. I like >>> to imagine them meeting a few years in the future and deciding they >>> both want to be together. Of course Buffy will have to make Spike >>> realize the depth of her feelings for him. Certainly nothing >>> precludes this. >>> >>> Sorry if this Joss quote has already been discussed on another >>> thead; if so, I missed it. >>> >>> Clairel >> >> Joss is on crack. > > --Would you care to elucidate? > > What you wrote doesn't tell me much. > > Clairel No, but what you wrote says it all, Clairel. What a beautiful post! Ignore that other guy. -- nimue "There was a time when I was young and gay -- but straight." Max Bialystock Do not taunt happy fun ball. SNL