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2003-03-27 22:33:31-08:00 - Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Chris Aguilera <chrisa@sysmatrix.net>)


Both Lilah and Wesley use modern firearms. Lilah always carried large caliber handguns with her, Wes has his trusty shotgun and several handguns ready. The gang still uses swords, knives in straight fighting but guns don't appear to be taboo as they are on Buffy. I thought I even saw Fred with a piece at the end of the show but that could have been a tranc. We knows vamps and demons are not invunerable to firearms but Buffy and her gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually tends to be long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. I say forget Buffy and send an infantry regiment to clean up Sunnydale of the vamps or at least a few Wesleys.

2003-03-28 03:44:42-05:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (The Babaloughesian <me@privacy.net>)


"Chris Aguilera" <chrisa@sysmatrix.net> wrote in message news:uURga.537$G6.150@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com... > Both Lilah and Wesley use modern firearms. Lilah always carried large > caliber handguns with her, Wes has his trusty shotgun and several handguns > ready. The gang still uses swords, knives in straight fighting but guns > don't appear to be taboo as they are on Buffy. I thought I even saw Fred > with a piece at the end of the show but that could have been a tranc. We > knows vamps and demons are not invunerable to firearms but Buffy and her > gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually tends to be > long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. I say forget Buffy > and send an infantry regiment to clean up Sunnydale of the vamps or at least > a few Wesleys. Buffy started out as a show that took place in high school, so they had to build some kind of anti-gun thing into the show or else media watchdogs would be all over them, given the school shootings that happened while the show was on the air. As the characters eventually got out of high school, guns pretty much stayed in the background, I guess because the writers were used to not using them. When Angel spun off, it didn't have the same baggage as Buffy, and characters were free to use reason and bullets. Also, Angel's characters are edgier. Edgy characters get better weapons.

2003-03-28 12:58:31-05:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Ebie <sybil5000@yahoo.com>)


Thus spake "Chris Aguilera" <chrisa@sysmatrix.net>: >Both Lilah and Wesley use modern firearms. Lilah always carried large >caliber handguns with her, Wes has his trusty shotgun and several handguns >ready. The gang still uses swords, knives in straight fighting but guns >don't appear to be taboo as they are on Buffy. I thought I even saw Fred >with a piece at the end of the show but that could have been a tranc. We >knows vamps and demons are not invunerable to firearms but Buffy and her >gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually tends to be >long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. I say forget Buffy >and send an infantry regiment to clean up Sunnydale of the vamps or at least >a few Wesleys. I always thought it had to do with both the premise and the tone (style, whatever) of BtVS. Sure, Buffy could liquify new vamps by splattering their heads all over Sunnydale Cemetary, but that's not the show ME was trying to write. By having fashionable young kids wield medieval weapons, chanting from ancient books and doing kung fu you end up with a certain kitschy cool that you don't get from a series with car chases and gunplay every week. AtS is a riff on detective noir, set in LA. You *GOTTA* have guns :) -- "That probably would've sounded more convincing if I wasn't wearing my yummy sushi pajamas."

2003-03-28 12:58:40-06:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (NOSPAMrobertocastillo@ameritech.net)


Chris Aguilera wrote: > Both Lilah and Wesley use modern firearms. Lilah always carried > large > caliber handguns with her, Wes has his trusty shotgun and several > handguns > ready. The gang still uses swords, knives in straight fighting but > guns > don't appear to be taboo as they are on Buffy. I thought I even saw > Fred > with a piece at the end of the show but that could have been a > tranc. We > knows vamps and demons are not invunerable to firearms but Buffy > and her > gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually tends > to be > long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. I say forget > Buffy > and send an infantry regiment to clean up Sunnydale of the vamps or > at least > a few Wesleys. Because Buffy still has a few high school aged characters. As you may or may not know, two episodes of Buffy were pre-empted for months after the Columbine massacre. Since then guns have rarely been used on the show without attaching an overt "guns are bad" message. This is no coincidence. If Wesley takes an uzi to a roomfull of vamps, he's an adult and this is normal action teevee behavior. If Dawn or even Buffy do something like this, they are still considered "teenagers" by the media and such a scene would likely take place within the halls of Sunnydale high school. This means that when school shooting season rolls around such a scene would be replayed over and over again -- just like the scene in Basketball Diaries where Leonardo Dicaprio's character fantasizes about blowing away his classmates was following Columbine -- as an example of "media violence" which encourages our to take up arms and shoot each other rather than hanging at the local youth center. I suspect that this is the main reason why you rarely see Buffy handling guns. -- Does this .sig make my butt look big? Roberto Castillo castillo@enteract.com http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-03-28 13:18:49-08:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (josie_h@yahoo.com)


> >but Buffy and her > >gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually tends to be > >long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. Seem to remember tranc guns in Buffy - esp when Oz was around. Also a few 'breakins' to the army base courtesy of Xander.... might it just be a 'weapon of choice' issue?

2003-03-28 14:56:51+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Jerry Davis <jjdavis2@flash.net>)


Chris Aguilera wrote: >Both Lilah and Wesley use modern firearms. Lilah always carried large >caliber handguns with her, Wes has his trusty shotgun and several handguns >ready. The gang still uses swords, knives in straight fighting but guns >don't appear to be taboo as they are on Buffy. I thought I even saw Fred >with a piece at the end of the show but that could have been a tranc. We >knows vamps and demons are not invunerable to firearms but Buffy and her >gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually tends to be >long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. I say forget Buffy >and send an infantry regiment to clean up Sunnydale of the vamps or at least >a few Wesleys. > > > > > None to spare, the 4th Infantry is heading for Kuwait to meet up with their equipment, after its extended journey from Turkey through the Suez Canal. It is now up to the heroes of AI and the Sunnydale Scooby Gang to save California from evil and darkness. Then again ... why bother?

2003-03-28 17:00:42+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.angel, chrisa@sysmatrix.net wrote in article <uURga.537$G6.150@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com>... > Both Lilah and Wesley use modern firearms. Lilah always carried large > caliber handguns with her, Wes has his trusty shotgun and several handguns > ready. The gang still uses swords, knives in straight fighting but guns > don't appear to be taboo as they are on Buffy. I thought I even saw Fred > with a piece at the end of the show but that could have been a tranc. We > knows vamps and demons are not invunerable to firearms but Buffy and her > gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually tends to be > long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. I say forget Buffy > and send an infantry regiment to clean up Sunnydale of the vamps or at least > a few Wesleys. > > > > Hmmm, so you are lobbying for the Initiative Redux? -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-03-28 17:56:48+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Rob Myers <robm@robmyers.removethisspamblocker.net>)


In article <uURga.537$G6.150@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com>, Chris Aguilera <chrisa@sysmatrix.net> wrote: > Both Lilah and Wesley use modern firearms. Here's a possibility. Just like Joss rehired some of the laid-off cast of Firefly for Buffy and Angel, he could be throwing some additional work to the firearms experts from Firefly. Joss must be awesome to work for. -- rob m at rob myers dot net

2003-03-28 18:09:24-06:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <BAA9F780yf@ameritech.net>, NOSPAMrobertocastillo@ameritech.net (Zombie Elvis) wrote: > This is no coincidence. If Wesley takes an uzi to a roomfull of > vamps, he's an adult and this is normal action teevee behavior. If > Dawn or even Buffy do something like this, they are still considered > "teenagers" by the media and such a scene would likely take place > within the halls of Sunnydale high school. Actually, it would be more likely to take place in a cemetery. And if anyone in the media still thinks of Buffy as a teenager, they are a moron and shouldn't be taken even remotely seriously.

2003-03-28 18:11:30-06:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <280320031345104674%antarian@pacbell.net>, PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote: > In article <6bcf75a6.0303281318.609caf35@posting.google.com>, > <josie_h@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > >but Buffy and her > > > >gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually tends > > > >to be long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. > > > > Seem to remember tranc guns in Buffy - esp when Oz was around. Also a > > few 'breakins' to the army base courtesy of Xander.... might it just > > be a 'weapon of choice' issue? > > network censors wouldn't allow kids to be running around with guns all > the time. Until the potentials showed up, the Buffy cast hasn't been "kids" for quite a while now. > the only times that we saw a gun used, it was the last resort. not the > first one. Yes, even when it would have been a lot safer for everyone involved for it to have been the first resort.

2003-03-28 20:26:50+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.angel, NOSPAMrobertocastillo@ameritech.net wrote in article <BAA9F780yf@ameritech.net>... > Chris Aguilera wrote: > > > Both Lilah and Wesley use modern firearms. Lilah always carried > > large > > caliber handguns with her, Wes has his trusty shotgun and several > > handguns > > ready. The gang still uses swords, knives in straight fighting but > > guns > > don't appear to be taboo as they are on Buffy. I thought I even saw > > Fred > > with a piece at the end of the show but that could have been a > > tranc. We > > knows vamps and demons are not invunerable to firearms but Buffy > > and her > > gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually tends > > to be > > long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. I say forget > > Buffy > > and send an infantry regiment to clean up Sunnydale of the vamps or > > at least > > a few Wesleys. > > Because Buffy still has a few high school aged characters. As you may > or may not know, two episodes of Buffy were pre-empted for months > after the Columbine massacre. Since then guns have rarely been used on > the show without attaching an overt "guns are bad" message. > [snipped some well considered points] I would argue that guns have always been used sparingly on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The only episodes prior to season three that jump to mind are "Halloween" (Xander with his automatic weapon), "Angel" (everybody run, Darla's got a gun), and "What's My Line, Part 2" (the assassin used a pistol). I suppose you could argue that The Judge was terminated with a conventional weapon, but not too many rocket launchers make it into the hands of middle or high schoolers. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-03-28 20:37:33-05:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (The Babaloughesian <me@privacy.net>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-CF1906.18092428032003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <BAA9F780yf@ameritech.net>, > NOSPAMrobertocastillo@ameritech.net (Zombie Elvis) wrote: > > > This is no coincidence. If Wesley takes an uzi to a roomfull of > > vamps, he's an adult and this is normal action teevee behavior. If > > Dawn or even Buffy do something like this, they are still considered > > "teenagers" by the media and such a scene would likely take place > > within the halls of Sunnydale high school. > > Actually, it would be more likely to take place in a cemetery. And if > anyone in the media still thinks of Buffy as a teenager, they are a > moron and shouldn't be taken even remotely seriously. Then the media are morons and the world is unjust, because they are taken seriously and this fact has real effects.

2003-03-28 21:25:18-06:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <rb8ha.202$kd1.237603@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>, "Ken" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:BTR1702-4426A9.18113028032003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > > In article <280320031345104674%antarian@pacbell.net>, PJ Browning > > <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote: > > > > > In article <6bcf75a6.0303281318.609caf35@posting.google.com>, > > > <josie_h@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >but Buffy and her > > > > > >gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually > > > > > >tends to be long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. > > > > > > > > Seem to remember tranc guns in Buffy - esp when Oz was around. Also > > > > a few 'breakins' to the army base courtesy of Xander.... might it > > > > just be a 'weapon of choice' issue? > > > > > > network censors wouldn't allow kids to be running around with guns > > > all the time. > > > > Until the potentials showed up, the Buffy cast hasn't been "kids" for > > quite a while now. > > > > > the only times that we saw a gun used, it was the last resort. not > > > the first one. > > > > Yes, even when it would have been a lot safer for everyone involved for > > it to have been the first resort. > > True. But there's another reason: Poverty. > > The kids couldn't afford the amount of ammo they'd be chucking the > average night. Don't see why. Willow walked into a shop and got a gun basically on the spur of the moment. She apparently carries several hundred dollars around as pocket change on a daily basis. > Besides, as bad Sunnydale PD is, a group of kids wielding firearms would > a) be scary enough to attract attention and These people are not kids and firearms can be concealed a lot easier than say.. oh I don't know.. crossbows and battleaxes!

2003-03-28 21:44:25+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net>)


In article <6bcf75a6.0303281318.609caf35@posting.google.com>, <josie_h@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >but Buffy and her > > >gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually tends to be > > >long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. > > Seem to remember tranc guns in Buffy - esp when Oz was around. Also a > few 'breakins' to the army base courtesy of Xander.... might it just > be a 'weapon of choice' issue? network censors wouldn't allow kids to be running around with guns all the time. the only times that we saw a gun used, it was the last resort. not the first one.

2003-03-29 03:13:27+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-4426A9.18113028032003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <280320031345104674%antarian@pacbell.net>, PJ Browning > <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote: > > > In article <6bcf75a6.0303281318.609caf35@posting.google.com>, > > <josie_h@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > >but Buffy and her > > > > >gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually tends > > > > >to be long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. > > > > > > Seem to remember tranc guns in Buffy - esp when Oz was around. Also a > > > few 'breakins' to the army base courtesy of Xander.... might it just > > > be a 'weapon of choice' issue? > > > > network censors wouldn't allow kids to be running around with guns all > > the time. > > Until the potentials showed up, the Buffy cast hasn't been "kids" for > quite a while now. > > > the only times that we saw a gun used, it was the last resort. not the > > first one. > > Yes, even when it would have been a lot safer for everyone involved for > it to have been the first resort. True. But there's another reason: Poverty. The kids couldn't afford the amount of ammo they'd be chucking the average night. Besides, as bad Sunnydale PD is, a group of kids wielding firearms would a) be scary enough to attract attention and b) not sound too scary to avoid attention (because if you're a long-timer on SD PD, you learn what kinda calls to avoid or take the "scenic route" to get to). A ground of kids going around with bows, swords and clubs, well that's just quaint. -- Ken from Chicago P.S. However Xander did use a rifle in S2's "Halloween", Buffy had a bazooka to blow up The Judge. They used tranq rifles during S3, mostly for Oz. Buffy used a flare gun in S4's "The Initiative", not to mention all the firearms the Initiative waved about. Xanderdee pulled Anya's pistol on Xanderdum in S5's "The Replacement". Initiative remnants showed up packing heat to fight the space demon queller. Riley showed up with firearms and grenades in S6's "As You Were", along with his wife, Sam. And this season Buffy and Spike ran across firearm-toting ex-Initiative members in the old base.

2003-03-29 05:40:45-06:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in <BTR1702-CF1906.18092428032003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>: > In article <BAA9F780yf@ameritech.net>, > NOSPAMrobertocastillo@ameritech.net (Zombie Elvis) wrote: > > > This is no coincidence. If Wesley takes an uzi to a roomfull of > > vamps, he's an adult and this is normal action teevee behavior. If > > Dawn or even Buffy do something like this, they are still considered > > "teenagers" by the media and such a scene would likely take place > > within the halls of Sunnydale high school. > > Actually, it would be more likely to take place in a cemetery. And if > anyone in the media still thinks of Buffy as a teenager, they are a > moron and shouldn't be taken even remotely seriously. There are a lot of media types who would fit into that category. -- "Screw destiny! Destiny's just another word for inevitable. And nothing's inevitable if you stand up, look it in the eye and say, 'You're evitable.'" -- Winifred Burkle Roberto Castillo robertocastillo@ameritech.net http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-03-29 05:44:17+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (CC Zona <cczona@nospam.invalid>)


In article <rb8ha.202$kd1.237603@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>, "Ken" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: > P.S. However Xander did use a rifle in S2's "Halloween", Buffy had a bazooka > to blow up The Judge. They used tranq rifles during S3, mostly for Oz. Buffy > used a flare gun in S4's "The Initiative", not to mention all the firearms > the Initiative waved about. Xanderdee pulled Anya's pistol on Xanderdum in > S5's "The Replacement". Initiative remnants showed up packing heat to fight > the space demon queller. Riley showed up with firearms and grenades in S6's > "As You Were", along with his wife, Sam. And this season Buffy and Spike ran > across firearm-toting ex-Initiative members in the old base. Plus those high tech dudes hunting Buffy and "Faith" for SlayerFest. Jonathan, the rifle, and the clocktower. Warren killed Tara with a gun. Buffy's bazooka or something similar was back in "Him". Warren's gunplay was re-enacted by Willow in "Killer in Me". And heck, that's just the humans. Darla got her jollies out of shooting at Buffy and Willow. Spike pointed a gun at Xander. If he was any less of a fool for love, Spike and Buffy both would have had their heads blown off as soon as he'd pulled the trigger on that rifle. And didn't the Gorche's tote guns too? It's interesting how distorted our perspective on guns has to be to overlook so many instances of them being brandished for the last seven years and still somehow reach the conclusion that guns aren't part of the Buffyverse. -- CC

2003-03-29 07:20:33+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Chris Aguilera <chrisa@sysmatrix.net> wrote: > Both Lilah and Wesley use modern firearms. Lilah always carried large > caliber handguns with her, Wes has his trusty shotgun and several handguns > ready. The gang still uses swords, knives in straight fighting but guns > don't appear to be taboo as they are on Buffy. I thought I even saw Fred > with a piece at the end of the show but that could have been a tranc. We > knows vamps and demons are not invunerable to firearms but Buffy and her > gang always seem to choose the old fashion way which usually tends to be > long and drawn out fights that take forever to finish. I say forget Buffy > and send an infantry regiment to clean up Sunnydale of the vamps or at least > a few Wesleys. I've never seen the appeal of adding firearms to BtVS. Never. Would the fight scene at the end of GD1 been better if Buffy simply shot Faith, and ended it there? That's just one example. Look, there are a number of opportunities for gun fetishists to get off. There's absolutely no reason why BtVS needs to be one of them. The show has its own vibe, and it has stuck with it for a while. I'm glad. I honestly don't see how many of the stories would be improved with AK-47s or Glocks. Sure, it might be a different show, but it wouldn't be *this* show, improved. -- A.E. Jabbour "IN the second century of the Christian era, the Empire of Rome comprehended the fairest part of the earth, and the most civilised portion of mankind." Edward Gibbon, "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"

2003-03-29 08:00:48+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-5D93A0.21251828032003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <rb8ha.202$kd1.237603@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>, "Ken" > <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: > > > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:BTR1702-4426A9.18113028032003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... <snip> > > > Yes, even when it would have been a lot safer for everyone involved for > > > it to have been the first resort. > > > > True. But there's another reason: Poverty. > > > > The kids couldn't afford the amount of ammo they'd be chucking the > > average night. > > Don't see why. Willow walked into a shop and got a gun basically on the > spur of the moment. She apparently carries several hundred dollars > around as pocket change on a daily basis. Sure, now, but in high school, I doubt it. Even first year in college, Buffy was struggling to save enough money to eat--until Parker began schooling her how to work the college system. > > Besides, as bad Sunnydale PD is, a group of kids wielding firearms would > > a) be scary enough to attract attention and > > These people are not kids and firearms can be concealed a lot easier > than say.. oh I don't know.. crossbows and battleaxes! Sure, they aren't kids now, but they were in high school and college. Even so, once they got where they were going, they have to start brandishing their heaters and they haven't always had the luxury of fighting in quiet abandoned warehouse where there were only a few if any bystanding witnesses. They've repeatedly had full scale brawls out in public. Someone would notice--and given the perverseness of Sunnydale, police would eventually have to check if they were licensed or if they are in a gang, and how often they are in fights, etc. Now crossbows and battleaxes aren't so threatening considering you can see em coming, easily taken out by someone who's packing something a bit more contemporary. Besides when was the last time you heard of spree axe or crossbow killer? Sure, maybe you serial killer, but not the en masse spree killing. Once a crowd sees someone with an arrow or axe blade sticking out of them, they tend to scatter, living said would-be spree killer in a jam as to which way to run. -- Ken from Chicago

2003-03-30 19:28:22-07:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (William George Ferguson <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com>)


On 31 Mar 2003 01:35:01 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >Mathew R. Ignash <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote: >>On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:25:18 -0600, BTR1701 wrote: > >>> These people are not kids and firearms can be concealed a lot easier >>> than say.. oh I don't know.. crossbows and battleaxes! > >>Yes, but officer, those are props for the new Sunnydale drill team number >> we are reheasing! > >The official response if they get caught is a good reason to avoid >guns, yeah. Of course, Buffy apparently has no problem walking around >with a battle axe in the middle of the day. But maybe she uses the >same tailor as the folks on Highlander, who conceal three-handed >swords in their trenchcoats. > >I don't mind that no one uses guns. What's pissed me off for several >years is that they don't always carry tranquilizer guns. Willow >dropped vamp-Willow in two seconds with a tranq dart. There's certainly >no reason to think an average vampire would be more resistant than >vamp-Willow. So the gang could have a concealable (in pistol form, >at least), incredibly effective weapon that's safe to use around >humans. But they don't use it. Because they're stupid. It's really >the only in-story rationale that makes sense. It's really because >the writers don't want them to be too effective, of course, but >inside the story, not using something that's effective when fighting >to save lives makes you stupid. > >Thus endeth my periodic "Why don't they use tranq guns?!" rant. I >think this was number 427 in the series. Collect them all! > >Pete You didn't go far enough. They should use those multi-shot tranqulizer dart pistols that the AI gang (specifically Fred) were carrying to use against Angelus, but reload the darts with holy water. -- I have a theory It could be bunnies

2003-03-30 19:47:37-05:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:25:18 -0600, BTR1701 wrote: > > The kids couldn't afford the amount of ammo they'd be chucking the > > average night. > > Don't see why. Willow walked into a shop and got a gun basically on the > spur of the moment. She apparently carries several hundred dollars > around as pocket change on a daily basis. Or, you know, a credit card. Heck, maybe Warren knew the guy and he put in on his account. He is a professional villain in Sunnydale! > > Besides, as bad Sunnydale PD is, a group of kids wielding firearms would > > a) be scary enough to attract attention and > > These people are not kids and firearms can be concealed a lot easier > than say.. oh I don't know.. crossbows and battleaxes! Yes, but officer, those are props for the new Sunnydale drill team number we are reheasing! -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-03-30 19:52:47+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


Ken Arromdee <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: >In article <b63hg1$19jcl$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de>, >AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote: >>I've never seen the appeal of adding firearms to BtVS. Never. >> >>Would the fight scene at the end of GD1 been better if Buffy simply shot >>Faith, and ended it there? >Because it *makes sense*. People don't want guns on Buffy because they like >to see bullets fly, they want guns on Buffy because that's what someone in >that situation would logically do. >Sure, it would ruin some scenes. Having a regular handshake policy to make >sure you're not talking to the First would ruin a lot of scenes too. That's >a problem with the scene. Exactly, and very well said. What I want are stories where the characters act intelligently. That's really not too much to ask. And a story in which characters have to do stupid things to make the plot go forward is an inherently flawed story. Not necessarily bad, but not as good as it could be, either. Now, all that said, I don't mind that the gang doesn't use guns. There are a lot of sound reasons not to use them. But the overall problem of all of Our Heroes being stupid when the plot demands it annoys the hell out of me. Pete

2003-03-30 20:04:57+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message news:b67c8f$vvj$2@blue.rahul.net... > In article <cczona-BCFEA4.21441728032003@netnews.attbi.com>, > CC Zona <cczona@nospam.invalid> wrote: > >Plus those high tech dudes hunting Buffy and "Faith" for SlayerFest. > >Jonathan, the rifle, and the clocktower. Warren killed Tara with a gun. > >Buffy's bazooka or something similar was back in "Him". Warren's gunplay > >was re-enacted by Willow in "Killer in Me". And heck, that's just the > >humans. Darla got her jollies out of shooting at Buffy and Willow. Spike > >pointed a gun at Xander. If he was any less of a fool for love, Spike and > >Buffy both would have had their heads blown off as soon as he'd pulled the > >trigger on that rifle. And didn't the Gorche's tote guns too? It's > >interesting how distorted our perspective on guns has to be to overlook so > >many instances of them being brandished for the last seven years and still > >somehow reach the conclusion that guns aren't part of the Buffyverse. > > Those were all bad guys, except for the bazooka, and a bazooka is not a gun > you can buy in a gun store and use for self-defense. > > Which tends to confirm my suspicion that the writers are ideologically > opposed to guns. It's not that guns are non-genre, or they wouldn't give > guns to either the good or bad guys. > -- > Ken Arromdee / arromdee@rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee > > "There are some corners of the universe that have bred the most terrible > things, things which act against everything that we believe in. They must be > fought." --Dr. Who, "The Moonbase" No, I think the writers are sensitive to putting guns in the hands of kids. The first one to wield a gun on ATS was Wes, and that was after he had gone 'dark'. As we saw in the last couple of eps, they've almost all been packing guns--even if only tranq guns. As someone else argued, on BTVS they're've always been kids around, either the Scoobs, Dawn or the Potentials. The one exception has been S4 and they kept showing the high casualty rate of the Initiative--altho that's due in large part to them going on captures instead of kills. -- Ken from Chicago

2003-03-30 22:10:27-05:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (The Babaloughesian <me@privacy.net>)


"Buckaroo Banzai" <Blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:W7Oha.702$4P1.53915@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > news:b68605$n1d$1@news3.bu.edu... > > Mathew R. Ignash <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote: > > >On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:25:18 -0600, BTR1701 wrote: > > > > >> These people are not kids and firearms can be concealed a lot easier > > >> than say.. oh I don't know.. crossbows and battleaxes! > > > > >Yes, but officer, those are props for the new Sunnydale drill team number > > > we are reheasing! > > > > The official response if they get caught is a good reason to avoid > > guns, yeah. Of course, Buffy apparently has no problem walking around > > with a battle axe in the middle of the day. But maybe she uses the > > same tailor as the folks on Highlander, who conceal three-handed > > swords in their trenchcoats. > > > > I don't mind that no one uses guns. What's pissed me off for several > > years is that they don't always carry tranquilizer guns. Willow > > dropped vamp-Willow in two seconds with a tranq dart. There's certainly > > no reason to think an average vampire would be more resistant than > > vamp-Willow. So the gang could have a concealable (in pistol form, > > at least), incredibly effective weapon that's safe to use around > > humans. But they don't use it. Because they're stupid. It's really > > the only in-story rationale that makes sense. It's really because > > the writers don't want them to be too effective, of course, but > > inside the story, not using something that's effective when fighting > > to save lives makes you stupid. > > > Maybe it's just much more satisfying to decapitate a demon/vamp with your > very own sword/battleaxe than it is to pull a trigger? I think that still falls into the "because they're stupid" category. -- Fuck you, Todd.

2003-03-31 01:35:01+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


Mathew R. Ignash <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote: >On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:25:18 -0600, BTR1701 wrote: >> These people are not kids and firearms can be concealed a lot easier >> than say.. oh I don't know.. crossbows and battleaxes! >Yes, but officer, those are props for the new Sunnydale drill team number > we are reheasing! The official response if they get caught is a good reason to avoid guns, yeah. Of course, Buffy apparently has no problem walking around with a battle axe in the middle of the day. But maybe she uses the same tailor as the folks on Highlander, who conceal three-handed swords in their trenchcoats. I don't mind that no one uses guns. What's pissed me off for several years is that they don't always carry tranquilizer guns. Willow dropped vamp-Willow in two seconds with a tranq dart. There's certainly no reason to think an average vampire would be more resistant than vamp-Willow. So the gang could have a concealable (in pistol form, at least), incredibly effective weapon that's safe to use around humans. But they don't use it. Because they're stupid. It's really the only in-story rationale that makes sense. It's really because the writers don't want them to be too effective, of course, but inside the story, not using something that's effective when fighting to save lives makes you stupid. Thus endeth my periodic "Why don't they use tranq guns?!" rant. I think this was number 427 in the series. Collect them all! Pete

2003-03-31 02:56:54+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Buckaroo Banzai <Blackhole34@yahoo.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:b68605$n1d$1@news3.bu.edu... > Mathew R. Ignash <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote: > >On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:25:18 -0600, BTR1701 wrote: > > >> These people are not kids and firearms can be concealed a lot easier > >> than say.. oh I don't know.. crossbows and battleaxes! > > >Yes, but officer, those are props for the new Sunnydale drill team number > > we are reheasing! > > The official response if they get caught is a good reason to avoid > guns, yeah. Of course, Buffy apparently has no problem walking around > with a battle axe in the middle of the day. But maybe she uses the > same tailor as the folks on Highlander, who conceal three-handed > swords in their trenchcoats. > > I don't mind that no one uses guns. What's pissed me off for several > years is that they don't always carry tranquilizer guns. Willow > dropped vamp-Willow in two seconds with a tranq dart. There's certainly > no reason to think an average vampire would be more resistant than > vamp-Willow. So the gang could have a concealable (in pistol form, > at least), incredibly effective weapon that's safe to use around > humans. But they don't use it. Because they're stupid. It's really > the only in-story rationale that makes sense. It's really because > the writers don't want them to be too effective, of course, but > inside the story, not using something that's effective when fighting > to save lives makes you stupid. Maybe it's just much more satisfying to decapitate a demon/vamp with your very own sword/battleaxe than it is to pull a trigger? > > Thus endeth my periodic "Why don't they use tranq guns?!" rant. I > think this was number 427 in the series. Collect them all! > > Pete > >

2003-03-31 04:47:35+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"Ken" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:J5Iha.686$kd1.680207@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com... > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > news:b67c8f$vvj$2@blue.rahul.net... > > In article <cczona-BCFEA4.21441728032003@netnews.attbi.com>, > > CC Zona <cczona@nospam.invalid> wrote: > > >Plus those high tech dudes hunting Buffy and "Faith" for SlayerFest. > > >Jonathan, the rifle, and the clocktower. Warren killed Tara with a gun. > > >Buffy's bazooka or something similar was back in "Him". Warren's gunplay > > >was re-enacted by Willow in "Killer in Me". And heck, that's just the > > >humans. Darla got her jollies out of shooting at Buffy and Willow. > Spike > > >pointed a gun at Xander. If he was any less of a fool for love, Spike > and > > >Buffy both would have had their heads blown off as soon as he'd pulled > the > > >trigger on that rifle. And didn't the Gorche's tote guns too? It's > > >interesting how distorted our perspective on guns has to be to overlook > so > > >many instances of them being brandished for the last seven years and > still > > >somehow reach the conclusion that guns aren't part of the Buffyverse. > > > > Those were all bad guys, except for the bazooka, and a bazooka is not a > gun > > you can buy in a gun store and use for self-defense. > > > > Which tends to confirm my suspicion that the writers are ideologically > > opposed to guns. It's not that guns are non-genre, or they wouldn't give > > guns to either the good or bad guys. > > -- > > Ken Arromdee / arromdee@rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee > > > > "There are some corners of the universe that have bred the most terrible > > things, things which act against everything that we believe in. They must > be > > fought." --Dr. Who, "The Moonbase" > > No, I think the writers are sensitive to putting guns in the hands of kids. > The first one to wield a gun on ATS was Wes, and that was after he had gone > 'dark'. As we saw in the last couple of eps, they've almost all been packing > guns--even if only tranq guns. As someone else argued, on BTVS they're've > always been kids around, either the Scoobs, Dawn or the Potentials. The one > exception has been S4 and they kept showing the high casualty rate of the > Initiative--altho that's due in large part to them going on captures instead > of kills. The first gun was wielded by a thug in *City of...*. Angel has had guns from the very first episode. If you're talking about the AI gang, Wes was the first to wield a gun and that was in *Expecting* and he wasn't dark. Angel just prefers to use his *fangs* instead of a gun as Cordy pointed out to Oz in *In the Dark*. -- Best regards Linda Mmmmmm. Angel

2003-03-31 06:19:12-05:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On 31 Mar 2003 01:35:01 GMT, Peter Meilinger wrote: > Mathew R. Ignash <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote: > >On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:25:18 -0600, BTR1701 wrote: > > >> These people are not kids and firearms can be concealed a lot easier > >> than say.. oh I don't know.. crossbows and battleaxes! > > >Yes, but officer, those are props for the new Sunnydale drill team number > > we are reheasing! > > The official response if they get caught is a good reason to avoid > guns, yeah. Of course, Buffy apparently has no problem walking around > with a battle axe in the middle of the day. But maybe she uses the > same tailor as the folks on Highlander, who conceal three-handed > swords in their trenchcoats. > > I don't mind that no one uses guns. What's pissed me off for several > years is that they don't always carry tranquilizer guns. Willow > dropped vamp-Willow in two seconds with a tranq dart. There's certainly > no reason to think an average vampire would be more resistant than > vamp-Willow. So the gang could have a concealable (in pistol form, > at least), incredibly effective weapon that's safe to use around > humans. But they don't use it. Because they're stupid. It's really > the only in-story rationale that makes sense. It's really because > the writers don't want them to be too effective, of course, but > inside the story, not using something that's effective when fighting > to save lives makes you stupid. > > Thus endeth my periodic "Why don't they use tranq guns?!" rant. I > think this was number 427 in the series. Collect them all! I'll do you one better: Why not put holy water in the tranq guns? Then if a human is shot, just a pain in the arm, but a vamp would be toast! A weapon which is realtively non-useful against humans but deadly to vamps would be kinda useful. -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-03-31 07:01:53-06:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


Mathew R. Ignash <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote: On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:25:18 -0600, BTR1701 wrote: > > > > >> These people are not kids and firearms can be concealed a lot easier > > >> than say.. oh I don't know.. crossbows and battleaxes! > > > > >Yes, but officer, those are props for the new Sunnydale drill team > > >number we are reheasing! But you people are grown adults. You're not in high school. What are you doing rehearsing for the drill team? Now why don't we get the truth?

2003-03-31 08:31:19-07:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (William George Ferguson <william.george.ferguson@domail.maricopa.edu>)


On 31 Mar 2003 12:17:20 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >William George Ferguson <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com> wrote: > >>>Thus endeth my periodic "Why don't they use tranq guns?!" rant. I >>>think this was number 427 in the series. Collect them all! > >>You didn't go far enough. They should use those multi-shot >>tranqulizer dart pistols that the AI gang (specifically Fred) were >>carrying to use against Angelus, but reload the darts with holy water. > >They should definitely use the multi-shot guns, yeah. But I'm not >sure about the holy water. They should carry some holy water darts, >definitely, but tranquilizer darts are useful against vampires, >werewolves and humans (oh, my!). There's no reason to think they >wouldn't be useful against at least a few other types of demons, >too, though there are certainly demons they wouldn't affect for >some reason or other. So tranq drugs are the most versatile load >they could use on a typical patrol. Holy water darts should be >used either as a backup or when they're specifically hunting only >vampires. > >Of course, there's no reason each person on patrol couldn't have >two tranq guns - one with holy water darts, one with regular >tranq darts. There are only two factors that keep this from >happening: > >1) Money. But Xander, at least, now has enough money that he could >afford to buy several tranquilizer pistols and a bunch of darts >and drugs. It might set him back a fair amount, but it would be >well worth it. > >2) Stupidity. Sadly, they'll never get over this one. > >Pete The tranquilizer isn't 'pure', it's diluted at various strengths in a saline solution. Use holy water as the carrier for the tranquilizer in place of the saline solution. It would even be a 'humane' vampire round, removing the pain at the same time it burned them up from the inside. -- You've reached the Tittles. We can't come to the phone right now If you want to leave a message for Christine, Press 1 For Bentley, Press 2 Or to speak to, or worship, Master Tarfall, Underlord of Pain, Press 3

2003-03-31 10:34:49+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:HLPha.126525$IR6.895089@news.easynews.com... > > "Ken" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message > news:J5Iha.686$kd1.680207@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com... > > > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > > news:b67c8f$vvj$2@blue.rahul.net... > > > In article <cczona-BCFEA4.21441728032003@netnews.attbi.com>, > > > CC Zona <cczona@nospam.invalid> wrote: > > > >Plus those high tech dudes hunting Buffy and "Faith" for SlayerFest. > > > >Jonathan, the rifle, and the clocktower. Warren killed Tara with a > gun. > > > >Buffy's bazooka or something similar was back in "Him". Warren's > gunplay > > > >was re-enacted by Willow in "Killer in Me". And heck, that's just the > > > >humans. Darla got her jollies out of shooting at Buffy and Willow. > > Spike > > > >pointed a gun at Xander. If he was any less of a fool for love, Spike > > and > > > >Buffy both would have had their heads blown off as soon as he'd pulled > > the > > > >trigger on that rifle. And didn't the Gorche's tote guns too? It's > > > >interesting how distorted our perspective on guns has to be to overlook > > so > > > >many instances of them being brandished for the last seven years and > > still > > > >somehow reach the conclusion that guns aren't part of the Buffyverse. > > > > > > Those were all bad guys, except for the bazooka, and a bazooka is not a > > gun > > > you can buy in a gun store and use for self-defense. > > > > > > Which tends to confirm my suspicion that the writers are ideologically > > > opposed to guns. It's not that guns are non-genre, or they wouldn't > give > > > guns to either the good or bad guys. > > > -- > > > Ken Arromdee / arromdee@rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee > > > > > > "There are some corners of the universe that have bred the most terrible > > > things, things which act against everything that we believe in. They > must > > be > > > fought." --Dr. Who, "The Moonbase" > > > > No, I think the writers are sensitive to putting guns in the hands of > kids. > > The first one to wield a gun on ATS was Wes, and that was after he had > gone > > 'dark'. As we saw in the last couple of eps, they've almost all been > packing > > guns--even if only tranq guns. As someone else argued, on BTVS they're've > > always been kids around, either the Scoobs, Dawn or the Potentials. The > one > > exception has been S4 and they kept showing the high casualty rate of the > > Initiative--altho that's due in large part to them going on captures > instead > > of kills. > > The first gun was wielded by a thug in *City of...*. Angel has had guns from > the very first episode. If you're talking about the AI gang, Wes was the > first to wield a gun and that was in *Expecting* and he wasn't dark. Angel > just prefers to use his *fangs* instead of a gun as Cordy pointed out to Oz > in *In the Dark*. > > > -- > Best regards > > Linda > > Mmmmmm. Angel Yeah, the topic thread is about Angel's gang (and by extension, the heros on BTVS) using guns. Wes was dark. He had gone "rogue". -- Ken form Chicago

2003-03-31 12:17:20+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


William George Ferguson <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com> wrote: >>Thus endeth my periodic "Why don't they use tranq guns?!" rant. I >>think this was number 427 in the series. Collect them all! >You didn't go far enough. They should use those multi-shot >tranqulizer dart pistols that the AI gang (specifically Fred) were >carrying to use against Angelus, but reload the darts with holy water. They should definitely use the multi-shot guns, yeah. But I'm not sure about the holy water. They should carry some holy water darts, definitely, but tranquilizer darts are useful against vampires, werewolves and humans (oh, my!). There's no reason to think they wouldn't be useful against at least a few other types of demons, too, though there are certainly demons they wouldn't affect for some reason or other. So tranq drugs are the most versatile load they could use on a typical patrol. Holy water darts should be used either as a backup or when they're specifically hunting only vampires. Of course, there's no reason each person on patrol couldn't have two tranq guns - one with holy water darts, one with regular tranq darts. There are only two factors that keep this from happening: 1) Money. But Xander, at least, now has enough money that he could afford to buy several tranquilizer pistols and a bunch of darts and drugs. It might set him back a fair amount, but it would be well worth it. 2) Stupidity. Sadly, they'll never get over this one. Pete

2003-03-31 12:19:35+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


The Babaloughesian <me@privacy.net> wrote: >"Buckaroo Banzai" <Blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:W7Oha.702$4P1.53915@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... >> Maybe it's just much more satisfying to decapitate a demon/vamp with your >> very own sword/battleaxe than it is to pull a trigger? >I think that still falls into the "because they're stupid" category. For the normal humans, at least. Buffy and Spike and Angel and even Willow are powerful enough that they can do it the showy and dirty way if they prefer, though even they should carry some kind of uber-effective backup. But Xander and Gunn and Fred and Dawn and whoever else I'm forgetting? They should be all over the idea of a weapon that'll drop a vamp in two seconds from a distance. They're not in it for the fun. Or if they are, they really are stupid. Pete

2003-03-31 15:11:16+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (dunce@nomail.com)


On 31 Mar 2003 01:35:01 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >Mathew R. Ignash <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote: >>On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:25:18 -0600, BTR1701 wrote: > >>> These people are not kids and firearms can be concealed a lot easier >>> than say.. oh I don't know.. crossbows and battleaxes! > >>Yes, but officer, those are props for the new Sunnydale drill team number >> we are reheasing! > >The official response if they get caught is a good reason to avoid >guns, yeah. Of course, Buffy apparently has no problem walking around >with a battle axe in the middle of the day. But maybe she uses the >same tailor as the folks on Highlander, who conceal three-handed >swords in their trenchcoats. > >I don't mind that no one uses guns. What's pissed me off for several >years is that they don't always carry tranquilizer guns. Willow >dropped vamp-Willow in two seconds with a tranq dart. There's certainly >no reason to think an average vampire would be more resistant than >vamp-Willow. So the gang could have a concealable (in pistol form, >at least), incredibly effective weapon that's safe to use around >humans. But they don't use it. Because they're stupid. It's really >the only in-story rationale that makes sense. It's really because >the writers don't want them to be too effective, of course, but >inside the story, not using something that's effective when fighting >to save lives makes you stupid. > >Thus endeth my periodic "Why don't they use tranq guns?!" rant. I >think this was number 427 in the series. Collect them all! > >Pete In recent eps of Angel we see him dodging tranq darts and shotgun blasts, so I don't know how effective tranq guns would be against a creature with superior speed and relfexes. There is probably a greater risk of the fired tranq darts being used against the attacker, if the vamp could catch them in midair. At least going hand to hand you can limit the freedom of movement of your opponent and use their strength against them.

2003-03-31 16:54:42+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


William George Ferguson <william.george.ferguson@domail.maricopa.edu> wrote: >The tranquilizer isn't 'pure', it's diluted at various strengths in a >saline solution. Use holy water as the carrier for the tranquilizer in >place of the saline solution. It would even be a 'humane' vampire round, >removing the pain at the same time it burned them up from the inside. I like the way you think, my friend. Sadly, it'll never happen on either show. If Our Heroes used effective tactics and weapons, vampires and demons would be shown up for the relatively ineffective threat they are. And we can't have that. Pete

2003-03-31 22:53:10+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


dunce@nomail.com wrote: > In recent eps of Angel we see him dodging tranq darts and shotgun >blasts, so I don't know how effective tranq guns would be against a >creature with superior speed and relfexes. There is probably a greater >risk of the fired tranq darts being used against the attacker, if the >vamp could catch them in midair. At least going hand to hand you can >limit the freedom of movement of your opponent and use their strength >against them. The problem with that is, anything that can catch a tranquilizer dart in mid-flight is almost certainly going to be way too fast for any human being to go up against. But that's not the way vampires on Buffy and Angel are portrayed - Our Human Heroes can usually hold their own against them in hand to hand. If humans like Gunn and Wesley and even friggin' Xander and Fred aren't completely outclassed in hand to hand combat, then there's no way that the vampires they're going up against are fast enough to dodge any decent missile weapon. Of course, that really only applies to the mook vamps. Vampires like Angelus have always been portrayed as much more powerful than the unnamed schmucks Buffy mows through in the teasers. So yeah, going up against Angelus with a tranq gun isn't a good idea. But if that's the case, no way would any human survive against him in hand to hand combat. And yet, they do. Pete

2003-04-01 03:48:05-05:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:01:53 -0600, BTR1701 wrote: > Mathew R. Ignash <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote: > On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:25:18 -0600, BTR1701 wrote: > > > > > > >> These people are not kids and firearms can be concealed a lot easier > > > >> than say.. oh I don't know.. crossbows and battleaxes! > > > > > > >Yes, but officer, those are props for the new Sunnydale drill team > > > >number we are reheasing! > > But you people are grown adults. You're not in high school. What are you > doing rehearsing for the drill team? Now why don't we get the truth? Buffy: The 13 teenage girls I have living illegally in my house are the drill team officer, we are their coaches! -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-04-24 03:06:21+00:00 - Re: Why do Angel's gang get to use guns? - (Bilbofett <keenok@netzero.net>)


Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in news:b67huf$qpb$1@news3.bu.edu: > > Exactly, and very well said. What I want are stories where the > characters act intelligently. That's really not too much to ask. > And a story in which characters have to do stupid things to make > the plot go forward is an inherently flawed story. Not necessarily > bad, but not as good as it could be, either. > > Now, all that said, I don't mind that the gang doesn't use > guns. There are a lot of sound reasons not to use them. But > the overall problem of all of Our Heroes being stupid when the > plot demands it annoys the hell out of me. > > Pete I would like to know who's writing my story line. I've done some really stupid things that afterwards I was at a loss to explain. If only I had writers to blame it on!!