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2004-04-30 01:40:35-07:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (shuggie <shuggie_member@newsguy.com>)


In article <Lzmkc.4595$TT.3597@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, ecriva says... > >Hi all, >Since I am confused about the following 3 words that I see used quite abit >in this ng I decided to take a punt and ask (despite my embarrassment at >doing so) >Would appreciate someone explaining to me what the following mean: >1. Buffy/Angel or Spike/Buffy shipper - it's the "shipper" word I don't get. >I assume it reams buffy/angel supporter or spike/buffy supporter regarding >their relationship? RelationSHIPPER - get it? >2. "recon" - can't work that one out It's actually 'retcon' RETroactive CONtinuity. It's when the past is re-interpreted, or even changed. >3. (<embarrassment here> <more embarrassment> ,red face>) - "smurf" >I know, I am probably a member of the "duh-don't-know-anything-club" but Maybe OZ was spared that particular cultural horror - 'cute' little blue and white creatures from Scandinava, invented to sell pop songs and toys - www.smurf.com

2004-04-30 03:15:58-07:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (joshtek@hotmail.com)


> Would appreciate someone explaining to me what the following mean: > 1. Buffy/Angel or Spike/Buffy shipper - it's the "shipper" word I don't get. > I assume it reams buffy/angel supporter or spike/buffy supporter regarding > their relationship? > 2. "recon" - can't work that one out > 3. (<embarrassment here> <more embarrassment> ,red face>) - "smurf" > I know, I am probably a member of the "duh-don't-know-anything-club" but Recon is basicly the research of an area to aid battle tactics, the word is short for reconnaissance. shipper is based on 'ship which is short for relationship... please don't tell me I have to define that ;) - I assume "shipper" is sometimes used to describe fanfiction or an episode which has a two characters in relationship. anything else? I know quite a lot of these obscure phrases and acronyms and stuff...

2004-04-30 05:22:53-05:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Ken from Chicago <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"ecriva" <ecriva@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:Lzmkc.4595$TT.3597@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > Hi all, > Since I am confused about the following 3 words that I see used quite abit > in this ng I decided to take a punt and ask (despite my embarrassment at > doing so) > Would appreciate someone explaining to me what the following mean: > 1. Buffy/Angel or Spike/Buffy shipper - it's the "shipper" word I don't get. > I assume it reams buffy/angel supporter or spike/buffy supporter regarding > their relationship? > 2. "recon" - can't work that one out > 3. (<embarrassment here> <more embarrassment> ,red face>) - "smurf" > I know, I am probably a member of the "duh-don't-know-anything-club" but > there you are! > thanks for the help! > Erica Brandon > from Oz Shipper = relationshipper = romantic relationshipper = someone who likes a particular pair being in a romantic relationship. Retcon = retroactive continuity = an UNKNOWN alteration of or an addition to the HISTORY of the character or the universe of a particular story, in order to explain some current event. For example: some strange powerful alien is trying to kill Superman and Clark Kent. Why is she doing so? Turns out when baby Kal'el was flying to Earth from Krypton, his ship was on a collision course with another space ship, forcing it to veer off and crash on a brutal inhospital world, at least to the alien inside, who vowed revenge, and after finally repairing her spaceship, tracking down the unique Kryptonian energy signature to Earth and the one Kryptonian on the planet, proceeds to make life misery for him. That would be a "retcon", because I've changed the history of Kal'el / Clark Kent / Superman by adding a previously unknown detail to it. I didn't change the history by altering previously known facts, instead by adding previously unknown facts to the history to explain some current event. Smurf = think of them like hobbits or dwarves, only smaller (maybe an inch or two tall), with all-blue skin, who wore only white pants and white cap because they were all male, except for Smurfette who wore a white dress and cap, who all lived in a village in a magical forest and were led by Grandpa Smurf, who sported a full white beard, the only one with facial hair, on an old Saturday morning cartoon series that was all the rage in the 1980s. Back in dark ages, before the Cartoon Network, before Nickelodeon, before cable tv, the Big Three tv broadcast networks, ABC, CBS and NBC (yes, before Fox was a network), used to air cartoons on Saturday mornings from about 7-noon Central Time Zone. THE SMURFS used to air on NBC. Oh, the smurfs also had a habit when talking of randomly replacing any word with "smurf" (e.g., "I hope Brainy Smurf gets his smurf in gear." "I sure hope he doesn't smurf things up again." "Lazy Smurf has got to learn to keep a smurf on the ball." "Yeah, I was telling him yesterday to keep an eye on the smurf or things will just get smurfed up, but he didn't care one smurf about what I said." Lastly, like Snowwhite's seven dwarves, the smurfs were named after some character trait, e.g., Brainy Smurf, Lazy Smurf, Sleepy Smurf, Greedy Smurf, Poet Smurf, Grandpa Smurf (the oldest) and Smurfette (the only female in the group, made by an evil wizard who was always trying to catch the smurfs, and I think he originally created all of them in the first place). -- Ken from Chicago P.S. Everyone is new sometime. P.P.S. Those afraid to ask "dumb" questions are often stuck with dumb answers.

2004-04-30 05:24:51-05:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Ken from Chicago <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"shuggie" <shuggie_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:c6t3e30133r@drn.newsguy.com... > In article <Lzmkc.4595$TT.3597@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, ecriva says... > > > >Hi all, > >Since I am confused about the following 3 words that I see used quite abit > >in this ng I decided to take a punt and ask (despite my embarrassment at > >doing so) > >Would appreciate someone explaining to me what the following mean: > >1. Buffy/Angel or Spike/Buffy shipper - it's the "shipper" word I don't get. > >I assume it reams buffy/angel supporter or spike/buffy supporter regarding > >their relationship? > > RelationSHIPPER - get it? > > >2. "recon" - can't work that one out > > It's actually 'retcon' RETroactive CONtinuity. It's when the past is > re-interpreted, or even changed. > > >3. (<embarrassment here> <more embarrassment> ,red face>) - "smurf" > >I know, I am probably a member of the "duh-don't-know-anything-club" but > > Maybe OZ was spared that particular cultural horror - 'cute' little blue and > white creatures from Scandinava, invented to sell pop songs and toys - > www.smurf.com > Don't forget Smurfberry cereal. Mmmm. taste the processed artificially flavored, artificially sweetened goodness. -- Ken from Chicago

2004-04-30 06:42:51+00:00 - what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (ecriva <ecriva@bigpond.com>)


Hi all, Since I am confused about the following 3 words that I see used quite abit in this ng I decided to take a punt and ask (despite my embarrassment at doing so) Would appreciate someone explaining to me what the following mean: 1. Buffy/Angel or Spike/Buffy shipper - it's the "shipper" word I don't get. I assume it reams buffy/angel supporter or spike/buffy supporter regarding their relationship? 2. "recon" - can't work that one out 3. (<embarrassment here> <more embarrassment> ,red face>) - "smurf" I know, I am probably a member of the "duh-don't-know-anything-club" but there you are! thanks for the help! Erica Brandon from Oz

2004-04-30 07:11:43-04:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (The Babaloughesian <me@privacy.net>)


"ecriva" <ecriva@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:Lzmkc.4595$TT.3597@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > Hi all, > Since I am confused about the following 3 words that I see used quite abit > in this ng I decided to take a punt and ask (despite my embarrassment at > doing so) > Would appreciate someone explaining to me what the following mean: > 1. Buffy/Angel or Spike/Buffy shipper - it's the "shipper" word I don't get. > I assume it reams buffy/angel supporter or spike/buffy supporter regarding > their relationship? A shipper is someone with a sort of obsession with the prospect of a given couple of characters being in a romantic relationship. > 2. "recon" - can't work that one out That's probably a misspelling of "retcon", short for "retroactive continuity"-- that's when they change something and say that's the way it always was. If they hadn't acknowledged that Dawn was fake, she would've qualified as a retcon.

2004-04-30 07:37:16-04:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Code Monkey <codemonkey@nowhere.com>)


In article <c6tc9h$g10h7$1@ID-177202.news.uni-berlin.de>, me@privacy.net says... > > 2. "recon" - can't work that one out > > That's probably a misspelling of "retcon", short for "retroactive > continuity"-- that's when they change something and say that's the way it > always was. If they hadn't acknowledged that Dawn was fake, she would've > qualified as a retcon. > The biggest, most obvious retcon in the Buffyverse was notion that magic was physically addictive with the crack Willow storyline. In one episode, they tried to change everything we'd been told or shown about magic for more than 5 years.

2004-04-30 08:32:16-04:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <c6t3e30133r@drn.newsguy.com>, shuggie <shuggie_member@newsguy.com> wrote: > In article <Lzmkc.4595$TT.3597@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, ecriva says... > >3. (<embarrassment here> <more embarrassment> ,red face>) - "smurf" > >I know, I am probably a member of the "duh-don't-know-anything-club" but > > Maybe OZ was spared that particular cultural horror - 'cute' little blue and > white creatures from Scandinava, invented to sell pop songs and toys - > www.smurf.com They were Belgian, not Scandinavian, and they were originally called Schtroumpfs. They were created by Pierre Culliford (aka Peyo) in 1958. I have friends who read the original Schtroumpf comic strips, and they tell me that they were good, before the hacks at Hanna Barbera got their hands on them. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2004-04-30 08:42:07-05:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether "ecriva" <ecriva@bigpond.com> rose up and issued forth: >Hi all, >Since I am confused about the following 3 words that I see used quite abit >in this ng I decided to take a punt and ask (despite my embarrassment at >doing so) >Would appreciate someone explaining to me what the following mean: >1. Buffy/Angel or Spike/Buffy shipper - it's the "shipper" word I don't get. >I assume it reams buffy/angel supporter or spike/buffy supporter regarding >their relationship? A shipper is a fan of a particular relationship. If a person has a thing for character A getting together romantically with character B then they are called an A/B shipper, i.e. one who likes that relationship. >2. "recon" - can't work that one out If you mean "Recon" then that is a standard real life term for Reconnaissance. Use a dictionary if you don't know that one. If you actually mean "Retcon", that is short for Retroactive Continuity, originally a comic book term for when the past gets changed or re-explained to fit a new situation introduced in a new issue/episode. Example, Buffy suddenly claiming she was put into a mental hospital before coming to Sunnydale was considered a major retcon by most fans, since there had never been any mention of it before, and her mother's past reactions to her daughter's activities was inconsistent with a parent who had committed her child for the same activities just a couple of years earlier. >3. (<embarrassment here> <more embarrassment> ,red face>) - "smurf" >I know, I am probably a member of the "duh-don't-know-anything-club" but >there you are! Smurfs, as others have pointed out, were little blue cartoon characters. The US had a horrible TV series about them, and they were all over the place, in stuffed toys, cereals, videos, games, etc. It is not a compliment to be compared to a smurf, as they were extremely annoying to anyone over the age of 2. >thanks for the help! >Erica Brandon >from Oz > -- Cyo (Remove '.invalid' to reply) cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org "The defense department regrets to inform you that your sons are dead because they were stupid." - "Top Gun"

2004-04-30 08:43:13-07:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (jove@socrates.berkeley.edu)


"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<PoGdnQ_sdd9gtQ_dRVn-sw@comcast.com>... > Smurf = think of them like hobbits or dwarves, only smaller (maybe an inch > or two tall), with all-blue skin, who wore only white pants and white cap > because they were all male, except for Smurfette who wore a white dress and > cap, who all lived in a village in a magical forest and were led by Grandpa > Smurf, who sported a full white beard, the only one with facial hair, on an > old Saturday morning cartoon series that was all the rage in the 1980s. OK, I feel really silly nit-picking about Smurfs on this NG, but I have to point out: (1) Smurfs were repeatedly described as being "three apples high," which would make them about 6" tall, not 1-2". (2) Their leader was *Papa* Smurf (who dressed in red). There *was* a Grandpa Smurf (dressed in yellow) introduced in later seasons, but I don't think he was really ever the leader. I think he was a "let's add a character because ratings are dropping" kind of character. A bunch of new little smurfs and a puppy were added to the cast around the same time. (3) The evil wizard (Gargamel) did create Smurfette, but I don't think he created the rest of them. I could be wrong about that. Thanks for pointing out their tendency to replace normal words with "smurf" all the time-- I'd forgotten how that used to crack me up! Jove G.

2004-04-30 09:29:34-07:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (sockpanda@yahoo.com)


"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<PoGdnQ_sdd9gtQ_dRVn-sw@comcast.com>... snip > Smurf = think of them like hobbits or dwarves, only smaller (maybe an inch > or two tall), with all-blue skin, who wore only white pants and white cap > because they were all male, except for Smurfette who wore a white dress and > cap, who all lived in a village in a magical forest and were led by Grandpa > Smurf, who sported a full white beard, the only one with facial hair, on an > old Saturday morning cartoon series that was all the rage in the 1980s. BLASPHEMY! :) "an inch or two tall"? IIRC, the cartoon stated (I think it was Gargamel who actually said it) that smurfs are "three apples high". That was one of the things that always cracked me up about the show was the total lack of attention to economy of scale...they explicitly state that the smurfs are as tall as three apples (which would be what? 12-15 inches?) but then would have them use a leaf as a yacht or a tiny mushroom as a condiminium or something. Of course this was a long time (and many beers) ago so it's always possible I'm remembering it wrong.

2004-04-30 09:42:55+00:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (David Samuel Barr <dsbarr@mindspring.com>)


ecriva wrote: > > Hi all, > Since I am confused about the following 3 words that I see used quite > a bit in this ng I decided to take a punt and ask (despite my > embarrassment at doing so) > Would appreciate someone explaining to me what the following mean: > 1. Buffy/Angel or Spike/Buffy shipper - it's the "shipper" word I > don't get. I assume it reams buffy/angel supporter or spike/buffy > supporter regarding their relationship? Exactly. A "shipper" is someone who is a (usually rabid) fan of a relationship between two characters. (When the characters are of the same sex, shippers are often also referred to as slashers [named for the punctuation mark, not any violent acts or instruments]). > 2. "recon" - can't work that one out It's "retcon", a coined word derived from "retroactive continuity". It generally refers to events which occur in an episode to try to justify or resolve inconsistencies in a story that have diverged from events or rules established in prior episodes. When there is no such activity on screen, but fans attempt to come up with their own explanations to deal with such inconsistencies, it's called "fanwanking". > 3. (<embarrassment here> <more embarrassment> ,red face>) - "smurf" > I know, I am probably a member of the "duh-don't-know-anything-club" > but there you are! The Smurfs are characters created in 1958 by Belgian cartoonist Pierre Culliford (p/k/a Peyo). They are all blue-skinned, hence Wesley's comparison of the blue-skinned Illyria to them. Their official website is http://www.smurf.com

2004-04-30 12:03:19-04:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (st <striketoo@hotmail.com>)


On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:37:16 -0400, Code Monkey <codemonkey@nowhere.com> wrote: >In article <c6tc9h$g10h7$1@ID-177202.news.uni-berlin.de>, me@privacy.net >says... > >> > 2. "recon" - can't work that one out >> >> That's probably a misspelling of "retcon", short for "retroactive >> continuity"-- that's when they change something and say that's the way it >> always was. If they hadn't acknowledged that Dawn was fake, she would've >> qualified as a retcon. >> > >The biggest, most obvious retcon in the Buffyverse was notion that magic >was physically addictive with the crack Willow storyline. In one >episode, they tried to change everything we'd been told or shown about >magic for more than 5 years. Another example of a more successful 'retcon' is Spike in Fool For Love. When Spike first appears we hear he is called by the name: William the Bloody... and we make the obvious vampire assumption. In FFL, a couple seasons later, we find out he is called that because of his bloody awful poetry. You get this type of thing in any 'serialized story' because they tend to be written over long periods of time, so keeping everything consistent and still interesting can be difficult for the writing team. 'Retcon' is generally used in a derogative way however, or as criticism of the writing, but its generally only the really obvious and 'unsuccessful' retcons that get people talking..... crackwillow being most people's favorite on Buffy. My favorite on Angel is the 'Doyle is half-demon' thing, which really makes no sense, since Anya said all demons are hybrids (another retcon, btw, created for the Mayor storyline, before that demons were demons) but it worked for the character.....so ME used it.... Once Doyle was gone..... so was the half-demon issue.... a good thing in my book, even though I did like Doyle. st -- "But she was naked, and all articulate!" - Mal Reynolds, Firefly.

2004-04-30 18:20:52-05:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Ken from Chicago <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"Jove G." <jove@socrates.berkeley.edu> wrote in message news:4c312455.0404300743.27bbd49a@posting.google.com... > "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<PoGdnQ_sdd9gtQ_dRVn-sw@comcast.com>... > > Smurf = think of them like hobbits or dwarves, only smaller (maybe an inch > > or two tall), with all-blue skin, who wore only white pants and white cap > > because they were all male, except for Smurfette who wore a white dress and > > cap, who all lived in a village in a magical forest and were led by Grandpa > > Smurf, who sported a full white beard, the only one with facial hair, on an > > old Saturday morning cartoon series that was all the rage in the 1980s. > > OK, I feel really silly nit-picking about Smurfs on this NG, but I > have to point out: > (1) Smurfs were repeatedly described as being "three apples high," > which would make them about 6" tall, not 1-2". > (2) Their leader was *Papa* Smurf (who dressed in red). There *was* a > Grandpa Smurf (dressed in yellow) introduced in later seasons, but I > don't think he was really ever the leader. I think he was a "let's > add a character because ratings are dropping" kind of character. A > bunch of new little smurfs and a puppy were added to the cast around > the same time. > (3) The evil wizard (Gargamel) did create Smurfette, but I don't think > he created the rest of them. I could be wrong about that. > > Thanks for pointing out their tendency to replace normal words with > "smurf" all the time-- I'd forgotten how that used to crack me up! > > Jove G. Well if you're gonna get nitpicky, there was also Smurfella, another smaller younger female smurf added in I think the last season. -- Ken from Chicago

2004-04-30 18:42:35-05:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Ken from Chicago <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"David Samuel Barr" <dsbarr@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:40921E82.28E4@mindspring.com... > ecriva wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > Since I am confused about the following 3 words that I see used quite > > a bit in this ng I decided to take a punt and ask (despite my > > embarrassment at doing so) > > Would appreciate someone explaining to me what the following mean: > > 1. Buffy/Angel or Spike/Buffy shipper - it's the "shipper" word I > > don't get. I assume it reams buffy/angel supporter or spike/buffy > > supporter regarding their relationship? > > Exactly. A "shipper" is someone who is a (usually rabid) fan of a > relationship between two characters. (When the characters are of the > same sex, shippers are often also referred to as slashers [named for the > punctuation mark, not any violent acts or instruments]). > > > 2. "recon" - can't work that one out > > It's "retcon", a coined word derived from "retroactive continuity". It > generally refers to events which occur in an episode to try to justify > or resolve inconsistencies in a story that have diverged from events or > rules established in prior episodes. When there is no such activity on > screen, but fans attempt to come up with their own explanations to deal > with such inconsistencies, it's called "fanwanking". "Retcon" arose in the comic book industry, in the early 90s, on GEnie (GE's networked information exchange), where after decades of the same characters being written and rewritten by legions of writers, and having tons of backstory to a character, one of the common deals was to have some mysterious villain pop up with a secret grudge against Our Heroes and it turns out some HERETOFORE UNKNOWN event in Our Heroes' past caused the grudge. > > 3. (<embarrassment here> <more embarrassment> ,red face>) - "smurf" > > I know, I am probably a member of the "duh-don't-know-anything-club" > > but there you are! > > The Smurfs are characters created in 1958 by Belgian cartoonist Pierre > Culliford (p/k/a Peyo). They are all blue-skinned, hence Wesley's > comparison of the blue-skinned Illyria to them. Their official website > is http://www.smurf.com Oh, and it's different than changing actual history, ala rewriting Superman's past so that the Kents never died, or going back in time and changing history, ala BACK TO THE FUTURE, or altering reality to change people's memories, ala Dawn. Retcon is making a change to history--and acting as if the change always existed all along. There was a vicious retcon in Marvel Comics by claiming the Spider-Man fans had been reading and buying for the past decade had been a clone, and the "real" Peter Parker, who changed his name to "Ben Reilly", returned to become Spider-Man while the "clone", Peter Parker, became the Scarlet Spider! Fans were furious! Eventually Marvel had to back down and rewrite it so that Ben was the really (no pun intended) the clone and Peter was indeed himself. -- Ken from Chicago

2004-04-30 20:19:22-04:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (nfway <me@here.com>)


In article <ttadnT2VGr_OQg_dRVn-gw@comcast.com>, kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net says... > > "Jove G." <jove@socrates.berkeley.edu> wrote in message > news:4c312455.0404300743.27bbd49a@posting.google.com... > > "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in > message news:<PoGdnQ_sdd9gtQ_dRVn-sw@comcast.com>... > > > Smurf = think of them like hobbits or dwarves, only smaller (maybe an > inch > > > or two tall), with all-blue skin, who wore only white pants and white > cap > > > because they were all male, except for Smurfette who wore a white dress > and > > > cap, who all lived in a village in a magical forest and were led by > Grandpa > > > Smurf, who sported a full white beard, the only one with facial hair, on > an > > > old Saturday morning cartoon series that was all the rage in the 1980s. > > > > OK, I feel really silly nit-picking about Smurfs on this NG, but I > > have to point out: > > (1) Smurfs were repeatedly described as being "three apples high," > > which would make them about 6" tall, not 1-2". > > (2) Their leader was *Papa* Smurf (who dressed in red). There *was* a > > Grandpa Smurf (dressed in yellow) introduced in later seasons, but I > > don't think he was really ever the leader. I think he was a "let's > > add a character because ratings are dropping" kind of character. A > > bunch of new little smurfs and a puppy were added to the cast around > > the same time. > > (3) The evil wizard (Gargamel) did create Smurfette, but I don't think > > he created the rest of them. I could be wrong about that. > > > > Thanks for pointing out their tendency to replace normal words with > > "smurf" all the time-- I'd forgotten how that used to crack me up! > > > > Jove G. > > Well if you're gonna get nitpicky, there was also Smurfella, another smaller > younger female smurf added in I think the last season. > -- Ken from Chicago > > > that's an idea: she could be smurfzilla, or smurferella (but she'd need little blue implants (ne Pam Anderson's Striperella) for the later).

2004-04-30 21:59:33-04:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <aFCkc.4780$Nz2.97721@news.itd.umich.edu>, Tammy Stephanie Davis <tsd@tetris.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote: > In article <3us59095hksnkq99kke7q9u8j62ss8n7mv@4ax.com>, > George W. Harris <gharrus@mundsprung.com> wrote: > :"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: > : > ::Retcon is making a change to history--and acting as if the change always > ::existed all along. > : > : I always respond to a retcon with a hearty, > :patriotic cry of "We have always been at war with > :East Asia! Eurasia has always been our ally!" > > <Smile> The one retcon that immediately comes to my mind is > Drusilla being Spike's sire instead of Angel, although Spike > had several years before clearly stated that Angel was his > sire. Except that everyone had been saying that Dru was Spike's sire before the fans ever got their first look at them. It was Spike's line in _School Hard_ where he said that Angel was his sire that had everyone saying "Hey, wait a minute!" -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2004-05-01 00:49:53+00:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - ("George W. Harris" <gharrus@mundsprung.com>)


"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: :Retcon is making a change to history--and acting as if the change always :existed all along. I always respond to a retcon with a hearty, patriotic cry of "We have always been at war with East Asia! Eurasia has always been our ally!" -- "The truths of mathematics describe a bright and clear universe, exquisite and beautiful in its structure, in comparison with which the physical world is turbid and confused." -Eulogy for G.H.Hardy George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'

2004-05-01 01:00:54+00:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (tsd@tetris.gpcc.itd.umich.edu)


In article <3us59095hksnkq99kke7q9u8j62ss8n7mv@4ax.com>, George W. Harris <gharrus@mundsprung.com> wrote: :"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: : ::Retcon is making a change to history--and acting as if the change always ::existed all along. : : I always respond to a retcon with a hearty, :patriotic cry of "We have always been at war with :East Asia! Eurasia has always been our ally!" <Smile> The one retcon that immediately comes to my mind is Drusilla being Spike's sire instead of Angel, although Spike had several years before clearly stated that Angel was his sire. --

2004-05-01 02:32:09-05:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Ken from Chicago <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"George W. Harris" <gharrus@mundsprung.com> wrote in message news:3us59095hksnkq99kke7q9u8j62ss8n7mv@4ax.com... > "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: > > :Retcon is making a change to history--and acting as if the change always > :existed all along. > > I always respond to a retcon with a hearty, > patriotic cry of "We have always been at war with > East Asia! Eurasia has always been our ally!" > > -- > "The truths of mathematics describe a bright and clear universe, > exquisite and beautiful in its structure, in comparison with > which the physical world is turbid and confused." > > -Eulogy for G.H.Hardy > > George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i' Big Retcon is watching you. -- Ken from Chicago

2004-05-01 02:35:38-05:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Ken from Chicago <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"Tammy Stephanie Davis" <tsd@tetris.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message news:aFCkc.4780$Nz2.97721@news.itd.umich.edu... > In article <3us59095hksnkq99kke7q9u8j62ss8n7mv@4ax.com>, > George W. Harris <gharrus@mundsprung.com> wrote: > :"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: > : > ::Retcon is making a change to history--and acting as if the change always > ::existed all along. > : > : I always respond to a retcon with a hearty, > :patriotic cry of "We have always been at war with > :East Asia! Eurasia has always been our ally!" > > <Smile> The one retcon that immediately comes to my mind is > Drusilla being Spike's sire instead of Angel, although Spike > had several years before clearly stated that Angel was his > sire. That was an actual rewriting of history--unless you believe the writers who say Spike was being figurative when he said in "School Hard" that Angel was his sire. -- Ken from Chicago

2004-05-01 02:47:16-05:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Ken from Chicago <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"nfway" <me@here.com> wrote in message news:MPG.1afcb717517ccdf8989917@news-east.giganews.com... > In article <ttadnT2VGr_OQg_dRVn-gw@comcast.com>, > kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net says... > > > > "Jove G." <jove@socrates.berkeley.edu> wrote in message > > news:4c312455.0404300743.27bbd49a@posting.google.com... > > > "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in > > message news:<PoGdnQ_sdd9gtQ_dRVn-sw@comcast.com>... > > > > Smurf = think of them like hobbits or dwarves, only smaller (maybe an > > inch > > > > or two tall), with all-blue skin, who wore only white pants and white > > cap > > > > because they were all male, except for Smurfette who wore a white dress > > and > > > > cap, who all lived in a village in a magical forest and were led by > > Grandpa > > > > Smurf, who sported a full white beard, the only one with facial hair, on > > an > > > > old Saturday morning cartoon series that was all the rage in the 1980s. > > > > > > OK, I feel really silly nit-picking about Smurfs on this NG, but I > > > have to point out: > > > (1) Smurfs were repeatedly described as being "three apples high," > > > which would make them about 6" tall, not 1-2". > > > (2) Their leader was *Papa* Smurf (who dressed in red). There *was* a > > > Grandpa Smurf (dressed in yellow) introduced in later seasons, but I > > > don't think he was really ever the leader. I think he was a "let's > > > add a character because ratings are dropping" kind of character. A > > > bunch of new little smurfs and a puppy were added to the cast around > > > the same time. > > > (3) The evil wizard (Gargamel) did create Smurfette, but I don't think > > > he created the rest of them. I could be wrong about that. > > > > > > Thanks for pointing out their tendency to replace normal words with > > > "smurf" all the time-- I'd forgotten how that used to crack me up! > > > > > > Jove G. > > > > Well if you're gonna get nitpicky, there was also Smurfella, another smaller > > younger female smurf added in I think the last season. > > -- Ken from Chicago > > > > > > > that's an idea: she could be smurfzilla, or smurferella (but she'd need > little blue implants (ne Pam Anderson's Striperella) for the later). Okay, now that's just wrong, disturbingly wrong. -- Ken from Chicago (who is grateful for his rare ability to SUPPRESS visualization, for fear of a Sassette Smurf / Tommy Lee internet video might be mind-destroying) P.S. ARGH! Even the idea of Sassette Smurf and Kid Rock . . . too much . . . pain . . . too much!

2004-05-03 06:44:25-05:00 - Re: 1 more q.asking for meaning of word used - (Ken from Chicago <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"ecriva" <ecriva@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:hWnlc.9304$TT.1474@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > Hi all, thanks for all those great replies [and kind encouragement not to > worry about asking "sometime dumb questions" (my words!)] when I posted my > ques about some explanation re some terms used in this ng, recently. > I also would like to ask about "puppies." I assume when its used in > angelverse/buffyverse it refers to someone who is helpless? Like in the BtVS > ep The Wish when vamp Willow asks if she can go play with the puppy and it > ends up being Angel in a cell in chains and I think she starts torturing > him. I can't recall an eg in AtS right now. > So does "puppy/puppies" in these shows mean someone who is helpless? Thanks. > I know some of this stuff is so obvious to many of you but as I mentioned, > I'm from the "duh"verse! I'm not as quick. > thankyou > Erica Brandon from Oz No, the writers like to put in recurring themes in the series. For example in S4 of BTVS (Season 4 of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER), Spike is injected with a chip that causes him pain when he physically hurts someone and feels all weak and defenseless, forced to turned to the Scoobies (another dog reference) for protection when he discovers he can hurt demons without pain. After weeks of being violence free he feel invigorated and is itching for another fight, but Xander and Willow are watching tv, so he tries to rouse them to action, to fight the good fight without their precious Buffy, "for truth, justice and puppies". There's another recurring theme with rabbits--and Anya's hatred and fear of them. TV Tome www.tvtome.com Buffy Guide www.buffyguide.com Buffy World www.buffyworld.com Those are some sites the not only episode guides, but comments on some of the references and recurring themes in both BTVS and ATS (ANGEL: THE SERIES). -- Ken from Chicago

2004-05-03 09:04:13+00:00 - 1 more q.asking for meaning of word used - (ecriva <ecriva@bigpond.com>)


Hi all, thanks for all those great replies [and kind encouragement not to worry about asking "sometime dumb questions" (my words!)] when I posted my ques about some explanation re some terms used in this ng, recently. I also would like to ask about "puppies." I assume when its used in angelverse/buffyverse it refers to someone who is helpless? Like in the BtVS ep The Wish when vamp Willow asks if she can go play with the puppy and it ends up being Angel in a cell in chains and I think she starts torturing him. I can't recall an eg in AtS right now. So does "puppy/puppies" in these shows mean someone who is helpless? Thanks. I know some of this stuff is so obvious to many of you but as I mentioned, I'm from the "duh"verse! I'm not as quick. thankyou Erica Brandon from Oz

2004-05-03 19:49:58-04:00 - Re: 1 more q.asking for meaning of word used - (nfway <me@here.com>)


In article <pOGdnYU_l8YGrQvdRVn-jw@comcast.com>, kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net says... > > "ecriva" <ecriva@bigpond.com> wrote in message > news:hWnlc.9304$TT.1474@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > > Hi all, thanks for all those great replies [and kind encouragement not to > > worry about asking "sometime dumb questions" (my words!)] when I posted > my > > ques about some explanation re some terms used in this ng, recently. > > I also would like to ask about "puppies." I assume when its used in > > angelverse/buffyverse it refers to someone who is helpless? Like in the > BtVS > > ep The Wish when vamp Willow asks if she can go play with the puppy and it > > ends up being Angel in a cell in chains and I think she starts torturing > > him. I can't recall an eg in AtS right now. > > So does "puppy/puppies" in these shows mean someone who is helpless? > Thanks. > > I know some of this stuff is so obvious to many of you but as I mentioned, > > I'm from the "duh"verse! I'm not as quick. > > thankyou > > Erica Brandon from Oz > > No, the writers like to put in recurring themes in the series. For example > in S4 of BTVS (Season 4 of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER), Spike is injected with > a chip that causes him pain when he physically hurts someone and feels all > weak and defenseless, forced to turned to the Scoobies (another dog > reference) for protection when he discovers he can hurt demons without pain. > After weeks of being violence free he feel invigorated and is itching for > another fight, but Xander and Willow are watching tv, so he tries to rouse > them to action, to fight the good fight without their precious Buffy, "for > truth, justice and puppies". > > There's another recurring theme with rabbits--and Anya's hatred and fear of > them. > > TV Tome www.tvtome.com > > Buffy Guide www.buffyguide.com > > Buffy World www.buffyworld.com > > Those are some sites the not only episode guides, but comments on some of > the references and recurring themes in both BTVS and ATS (ANGEL: THE > SERIES). > > -- Ken from Chicago > > > don't forget playing poker for kittens

2004-05-04 18:16:31-07:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com>)


"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> writes: > "Retcon" arose in the comic book industry, in the early 90s, on > GEnie At least a bit earlier. The first appearance on Usenet (in rec.arts.comics) was on December 22, 1989, and the word was used pretty much daily by several people without them feeling the need to define it until someone asked "What's does 'retcon' mean?" in March, 1990. Apparently "retroactive continuity" was coined by Roy Thomas in the letter column of _All Star Squadron_ #20 (April, 1983), and the phrase was shortened (and verbed) to "retcon" by Damian Cugley sometime before its appearance on Usenet. (Jayembee credited him with it in March, 1990, and Cugley claimed credit in April, 1990, but that was the first time he actually used the word on Usenet.) -- Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The great thing about Microsoft 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |dominating the world is that Palo Alto, CA 94304 |there's no shortage of support |opportunities. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Sam Alvis (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

2004-05-05 01:25:46+00:00 - Re: 1 more q.asking for meaning of word used - (nimue <cup_o_cakesNOSPAM@yahoo.com>)


nfway wrote: > In article <pOGdnYU_l8YGrQvdRVn-jw@comcast.com>, > kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net says... >> >> "ecriva" <ecriva@bigpond.com> wrote in message >> news:hWnlc.9304$TT.1474@news-server.bigpond.net.au... >>> Hi all, thanks for all those great replies [and kind encouragement >>> not to worry about asking "sometime dumb questions" (my words!)] >>> when I posted my ques about some explanation re some terms used in >>> this ng, recently. I also would like to ask about "puppies." I >>> assume when its used in angelverse/buffyverse it refers to someone >>> who is helpless? Like in the BtVS ep The Wish when vamp Willow asks >>> if she can go play with the puppy and it ends up being Angel in a >>> cell in chains and I think she starts torturing him. I can't recall >>> an eg in AtS right now. So does "puppy/puppies" in these shows mean >>> someone who is helpless? Thanks. I know some of this stuff is so >>> obvious to many of you but as I mentioned, I'm from the "duh"verse! >>> I'm not as quick. thankyou >>> Erica Brandon from Oz >> >> No, the writers like to put in recurring themes in the series. For >> example in S4 of BTVS (Season 4 of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER), Spike >> is injected with a chip that causes him pain when he physically >> hurts someone and feels all weak and defenseless, forced to turned >> to the Scoobies (another dog reference) for protection when he >> discovers he can hurt demons without pain. After weeks of being >> violence free he feel invigorated and is itching for another fight, >> but Xander and Willow are watching tv, so he tries to rouse them to >> action, to fight the good fight without their precious Buffy, "for >> truth, justice and puppies". >> >> There's another recurring theme with rabbits--and Anya's hatred and >> fear of them. >> >> TV Tome www.tvtome.com >> >> Buffy Guide www.buffyguide.com >> >> Buffy World www.buffyworld.com >> >> Those are some sites the not only episode guides, but comments on >> some of the references and recurring themes in both BTVS and ATS >> (ANGEL: THE SERIES). >> >> -- Ken from Chicago >> >> >> > > don't forget playing poker for kittens Yeah, but I don't really see a connection between Vamp Willow calling Angel "the puppy" and Spike's saying that he wants to fight demons for "truth, justice, and puppies." Vamp Willow calls Angel "the puppy" to (further) dehumanize and degrade him. It's also creepily sexy -- the whole "I'm going to make the puppy bark" thing. Spike, on the other hand, is just looking for something innocent to justify his desire to fight demons. He is saying the first thing that comes into his head. Anya's fear of rabbits is consistent and different. Rabbits always mean the same thing to her, and always have the same effect whenever she is in any scene with them. -- nimue "There was a time when I was young and gay -- but straight." Max Bialystock Do not taunt happy fun ball. SNL

2004-05-08 19:27:15+00:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Growltiger <growltiger@never.invalid>)


Previously in alt.tv.angel, "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: > >"ecriva" <ecriva@bigpond.com> wrote in message >news:Lzmkc.4595$TT.3597@news-server.bigpond.net.au... >> Hi all, >> Since I am confused about the following 3 words that I see used quite abit >> in this ng I decided to take a punt and ask (despite my embarrassment at >> doing so) >> Would appreciate someone explaining to me what the following mean: [deleted] >> 2. "recon" - can't work that one out [deleted] > >Retcon = retroactive continuity = an UNKNOWN alteration of or an addition to >the HISTORY of the character or the universe of a particular story, in order >to explain some current event. > >For example: some strange powerful alien is trying to kill Superman and >Clark Kent. Why is she doing so? Turns out when baby Kal'el was flying to >Earth from Krypton, his ship was on a collision course with another space >ship, forcing it to veer off and crash on a brutal inhospital world, at >least to the alien inside, who vowed revenge, and after finally repairing >her spaceship, tracking down the unique Kryptonian energy signature to Earth >and the one Kryptonian on the planet, proceeds to make life misery for him. >That would be a "retcon", because I've changed the history of Kal'el / Clark >Kent / Superman by adding a previously unknown detail to it. I didn't change >the history by altering previously known facts, instead by adding previously >unknown facts to the history to explain some current event. > I do not think that is a good example, Ken. Although I admit I did not read the story, the example, as you described it, sounds like back-story and not a re-writing or renegotiation of the Clark Kent/Superman character and/or universe. As described, the collision, or whatever happened out in deep space, does not change his characterization, per se. It just sounds like the writer's taking advantage of an unknown part of the Superman saga in order to introduce a new character. To the best of my memory, it was not part and parcel of the DC universe that Kal'el's voyage to Earth was uneventful. It is not unreasonable that something could have happened. It is not as if we would expect the infant Kal'el to remember such an event. It does not change the way one would understand the DC universe. So it is fair game to introduce the change. A better example of retroactive continuity would be events or characters that spring full grown with thin or non-existent explanations and these things either force us to disregard past story development or change the fabric of the story universe. Here are some examples: - Kligons have ridged foreheads & fangs? When did that happen? - Back on Cheers, I thought Frasier Crane said his father was dead? - And the ne plus ultra of ret cons: I thought J.R. Ewing was dead? Retroactive continuity asks the reader or viewer to ignore the past in order to accept a present day situation. (Although I admit I enjoyed the way the Star Trek writers came to terms with the change in the Klingon's appearance. In a Star Trek: Deep Space 9 episode, Worf, a Klingon, is confronted with this discrepancy and channels the writer's embarrassment. His response, in so many words, was "it's complicated" and he summarily shrugs off the question.) By the way, the introduction of Dawn to the Buffy the Vampire series would not be an example of a retroactive continuity change. Although it altered the memories of the principals on a go forward basis, it did not change past continuity from the viewer's perspective. --- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2004-05-08 19:43:10+00:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Growltiger <growltiger@never.invalid>)


Previously in alt.tv.angel, st <striketoo@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:37:16 -0400, Code Monkey ><codemonkey@nowhere.com> wrote: > >>In article <c6tc9h$g10h7$1@ID-177202.news.uni-berlin.de>, me@privacy.net >>says... >> >>> > 2. "recon" - can't work that one out >>> >>> That's probably a misspelling of "retcon", short for "retroactive >>> continuity"-- that's when they change something and say that's the way it >>> always was. If they hadn't acknowledged that Dawn was fake, she would've >>> qualified as a retcon. >>> >> >>The biggest, most obvious retcon in the Buffyverse was notion that magic >>was physically addictive with the crack Willow storyline. In one >>episode, they tried to change everything we'd been told or shown about >>magic for more than 5 years. > >Another example of a more successful 'retcon' is Spike in Fool For >Love. > >When Spike first appears we hear he is called by the name: William the >Bloody... and we make the obvious vampire assumption. In FFL, a couple >seasons later, we find out he is called that because of his bloody >awful poetry. > >You get this type of thing in any 'serialized story' because they tend >to be written over long periods of time, so keeping everything >consistent and still interesting can be difficult for the writing >team. > >'Retcon' is generally used in a derogative way however, or as >criticism of the writing, but its generally only the really obvious >and 'unsuccessful' retcons that get people talking..... crackwillow >being most people's favorite on Buffy. > >My favorite on Angel is the 'Doyle is half-demon' thing, which really >makes no sense, since Anya said all demons are hybrids (another >retcon, btw, created for the Mayor storyline, before that demons were >demons) but it worked for the character.....so ME used it.... > >Once Doyle was gone..... so was the half-demon issue.... a good thing >in my book, even though I did like Doyle. > >st On the other hand, Ilyria refers to the vampires Angel and Spike as half-breeds. So we are not quite rid of this imbroglio. And if Fool for Love we are given a broad hint on why Spike got his name. We were already told in School Hard how he got it. But the insult to his poetry by the party goer explains his motivation, with a large dollop of irony, in the choice of his method. The controversy over "magic is addictive" aside, if that is at all possible, I never thought of this revelation as an example of retroactive continuity. It may not have been a wise choice, but it did not force me to change my understanding of magic as used by humans in the Buffy universe. After all, the notion that the use of power is addictive is not beyond the pale. But as for 12 step programs for its abusers, well, not so much... --- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2004-05-09 07:58:48-05:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (Ken from Chicago <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"Growltiger" <growltiger@never.invalid> wrote in message news:59dq90lusrb3keq8tr54o2a27i9to0arvt@4ax.com... > Previously in alt.tv.angel, st <striketoo@hotmail.com> wrote: > > >On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:37:16 -0400, Code Monkey > ><codemonkey@nowhere.com> wrote: > > > >>In article <c6tc9h$g10h7$1@ID-177202.news.uni-berlin.de>, me@privacy.net > >>says... > >> > >>> > 2. "recon" - can't work that one out > >>> > >>> That's probably a misspelling of "retcon", short for "retroactive > >>> continuity"-- that's when they change something and say that's the way it > >>> always was. If they hadn't acknowledged that Dawn was fake, she would've > >>> qualified as a retcon. > >>> > >> > >>The biggest, most obvious retcon in the Buffyverse was notion that magic > >>was physically addictive with the crack Willow storyline. In one > >>episode, they tried to change everything we'd been told or shown about > >>magic for more than 5 years. > > > >Another example of a more successful 'retcon' is Spike in Fool For > >Love. > > > >When Spike first appears we hear he is called by the name: William the > >Bloody... and we make the obvious vampire assumption. In FFL, a couple > >seasons later, we find out he is called that because of his bloody > >awful poetry. > > > >You get this type of thing in any 'serialized story' because they tend > >to be written over long periods of time, so keeping everything > >consistent and still interesting can be difficult for the writing > >team. > > > >'Retcon' is generally used in a derogative way however, or as > >criticism of the writing, but its generally only the really obvious > >and 'unsuccessful' retcons that get people talking..... crackwillow > >being most people's favorite on Buffy. > > > >My favorite on Angel is the 'Doyle is half-demon' thing, which really > >makes no sense, since Anya said all demons are hybrids (another > >retcon, btw, created for the Mayor storyline, before that demons were > >demons) but it worked for the character.....so ME used it.... > > > >Once Doyle was gone..... so was the half-demon issue.... a good thing > >in my book, even though I did like Doyle. > > > >st > > On the other hand, Ilyria refers to the vampires Angel and Spike as > half-breeds. So we are not quite rid of this imbroglio. > > And if Fool for Love we are given a broad hint on why Spike got his > name. We were already told in School Hard how he got it. But the > insult to his poetry by the party goer explains his motivation, with a > large dollop of irony, in the choice of his method. > > The controversy over "magic is addictive" aside, if that is at all > possible, I never thought of this revelation as an example of > retroactive continuity. It may not have been a wise choice, but it > did not force me to change my understanding of magic as used by humans > in the Buffy universe. After all, the notion that the use of power is > addictive is not beyond the pale. But as for 12 step programs for its > abusers, well, not so much... > --- > Be seeing you, > Growltiger But who LEADS those 12-step power addiction group meetings? -- Ken from Chicago

2004-05-09 12:22:11-04:00 - Re: what do these words mean that you use in this ng? - (st <striketoo@hotmail.com>)


On Sat, 08 May 2004 19:43:10 GMT, Growltiger <growltiger@never.invalid> wrote: >On the other hand, Ilyria refers to the vampires Angel and Spike as >half-breeds. So we are not quite rid of this imbroglio. Well, yes, but they have always been. A 'demon' in a 'human' corpse... corpse being the important part.... Doyle didn't really fit.... Illyria is much more like a vampire than Doyle.. >And if Fool for Love we are given a broad hint on why Spike got his >name. We were already told in School Hard how he got it. But the >insult to his poetry by the party goer explains his motivation, with a >large dollop of irony, in the choice of his method. But that doesn't change it from retcon. Again, its not a bad thing necessarily. The true test would be to ask Joss... when he came up with the true meaning of the name. If he knew when he created the story for school hard... which i doubt since spike wasn't supposed to last initially.... then its not really retcon, but back story. But if he adjusted something that was an 'assumption' based on school hard then it really does fit the bill.... retcon. Its just a clever....and ironic one. >The controversy over "magic is addictive" aside, if that is at all >possible, I never thought of this revelation as an example of >retroactive continuity. It may not have been a wise choice, but it >did not force me to change my understanding of magic as used by humans >in the Buffy universe. After all, the notion that the use of power is >addictive is not beyond the pale. But as for 12 step programs for its >abusers, well, not so much... Well and therein lies the 'change'. We do get a hint of this from 'Ripper', but that had more to do with a 'demon' than magic per se. Its not necessarily a large jump, but it does change our understanding of magic and since it was badly executed... it tends to get notice. st -- "But she was naked, and all articulate!" - Mal Reynolds, Firefly.