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2003-06-27 17:19:43-07:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (himiko@animail.net)


fylmfan@aol.comspam (Rose) wrote in message news:<20030627143959.09751.00001809@mb-m01.aol.com>... > I know discussion of Spike can be dicey here but this isn't about whether he's > evil, or his relative sex appeal, or whether he will "take over the show" so I > think it's probably a safe topic. Warning, S5 rumors/possible spoilers ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some people came away from the last fan convention believing Spike will be a > ghost on Angel. Someone asked the panel. Drew Z. Greenberg supposedly looked > shocked and then ran off the stage, up to the person who asked and whispered "I > am so not going to tell you." Some attendees (shouldn't that be attenders or > attendants? oh well) heard other statements that made them think "Ghost Spike > on AtS" but I don't recall what those statements were. Maybe someone who went > to the con can fill in the blanks. Needless to say, many Spike fans aren't too > thrilled about this. > > I was curious how this ng would react to Spike being on the show as a ghost. I'm open to it. It depends on how they handle it and for how long. I don't think Spike can continue as a ghost forever. For one thing, it makes him a bit too much like Angel in the no-boinking department...probably. I say probably because we don't know what ghosts can or cannot do in the Buffyverse; those 3 women looked pretty whispy, but they apparently could have some fun with the quite corporeal mmmmmmm....Angel. It could work if they bring Spike on all white (white duster, T, and leather pants of virtue...mmmmm....Spikey) and glowy with messages from the PTB. Neither we nor the characters would know whether to trust him. But they can't keep him doing that forever. It's a waste of a good character. himiko

2003-06-27 18:39:59+00:00 - Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


I know discussion of Spike can be dicey here but this isn't about whether he's evil, or his relative sex appeal, or whether he will "take over the show" so I think it's probably a safe topic. Warning, S5 rumors/possible spoilers ahead. Some people came away from the last fan convention believing Spike will be a ghost on Angel. Someone asked the panel. Drew Z. Greenberg supposedly looked shocked and then ran off the stage, up to the person who asked and whispered "I am so not going to tell you." Some attendees (shouldn't that be attenders or attendants? oh well) heard other statements that made them think "Ghost Spike on AtS" but I don't recall what those statements were. Maybe someone who went to the con can fill in the blanks. Needless to say, many Spike fans aren't too thrilled about this. I was curious how this ng would react to Spike being on the show as a ghost. Rose

2003-06-27 20:21:05+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Chris Zabel <alephnull@earthlink.net>)


"Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote in message news:20030627143959.09751.00001809@mb-m01.aol.com... > I know discussion of Spike can be dicey here but this isn't about whether he's > evil, or his relative sex appeal, or whether he will "take over the show" so I > think it's probably a safe topic. Warning, S5 rumors/possible spoilers ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some people came away from the last fan convention believing Spike will be a > ghost on Angel. Someone asked the panel. Drew Z. Greenberg supposedly looked > shocked and then ran off the stage, up to the person who asked and whispered "I > am so not going to tell you." Some attendees (shouldn't that be attenders or > attendants? oh well) heard other statements that made them think "Ghost Spike > on AtS" but I don't recall what those statements were. Maybe someone who went > to the con can fill in the blanks. Needless to say, many Spike fans aren't too > thrilled about this. > > I was curious how this ng would react to Spike being on the show as a ghost. There aren't many things that would get me to stop watching Spike's journey as a character or AtS, but Ghost Spike(for any substantial length of time) on AtS would make it very easy for me to stop watching and never look back on the buffyverse. Ghost Spike limits the character so much in terms of story that it effectively would be a different character. I'd rather Spike come back human than as a ghost, and I detest the idea of regular human Spike.

2003-06-27 20:39:26+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Sharpe Fan <sharpeseagle2003@NOSPAMyahoo.com>)


"Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote in message news:20030627143959.09751.00001809@mb-m01.aol.com... > I know discussion of Spike can be dicey here but this isn't about whether he's > evil, or his relative sex appeal, or whether he will "take over the show" so I > think it's probably a safe topic. Warning, S5 rumors/possible spoilers ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some people came away from the last fan convention believing Spike will be a > ghost on Angel. Someone asked the panel. Drew Z. Greenberg supposedly looked > shocked and then ran off the stage, up to the person who asked and whispered "I > am so not going to tell you." Some attendees (shouldn't that be attenders or > attendants? oh well) heard other statements that made them think "Ghost Spike > on AtS" but I don't recall what those statements were. Maybe someone who went > to the con can fill in the blanks. Needless to say, many Spike fans aren't too > thrilled about this. > > I was curious how this ng would react to Spike being on the show as a ghost. > > > Rose > I am neither a Spike fan or anti-fan. My wishes are simple - He doesn't spend all the time thinking about Buffy, he doesn't have a love interest for the at least the first season (he seems to become whatever he thinks she wants him to be and that gets old quick) and he doesn't become the season long center of attention on AtS. As for being a ghost - based on Dennis he would be stuck in a hole in Sunnydale, since ghosts apparently can move from the place they died. This would make it hard for the character to do much of anything on Angel. Sharpe Fan

2003-06-27 23:00:26+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: > I know discussion of Spike can be dicey here but this isn't about whether he's > evil, or his relative sex appeal, or whether he will "take over the show" so I > think it's probably a safe topic. Warning, S5 rumors/possible spoilers ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some people came away from the last fan convention believing Spike will be a > ghost on Angel. Someone asked the panel. Drew Z. Greenberg supposedly looked > shocked and then ran off the stage, up to the person who asked and whispered "I > am so not going to tell you." Some attendees (shouldn't that be attenders or > attendants? oh well) heard other statements that made them think "Ghost Spike > on AtS" but I don't recall what those statements were. Maybe someone who went > to the con can fill in the blanks. Needless to say, many Spike fans aren't too > thrilled about this. > > I was curious how this ng would react to Spike being on the show as a ghost. > > > Rose I have no idea why anyone would put any stock in some convention happenings. However, as far as I am concerned, I couldn't care less whether he is a ghost. It doesn't matter to me in the slightest either way. -- AE Jabbour "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." Kate, "Lonely Hearts"

2003-06-27 23:35:16-04:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <20030627143959.09751.00001809@mb-m01.aol.com>, Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: > I know discussion of Spike can be dicey here but this isn't about whether he's > evil, or his relative sex appeal, or whether he will "take over the show" so I > think it's probably a safe topic. Warning, S5 rumors/possible spoilers ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some people came away from the last fan convention believing Spike > will be a ghost on Angel. Someone asked the panel. Drew Z. > Greenberg supposedly looked shocked and then ran off the stage, up to > the person who asked and whispered "I am so not going to tell you." > Some attendees (shouldn't that be attenders or attendants? oh well) > heard other statements that made them think "Ghost Spike on AtS" but > I don't recall what those statements were. Maybe someone who went to > the con can fill in the blanks. Needless to say, many Spike fans > aren't too thrilled about this. > > I was curious how this ng would react to Spike being on the show as a > ghost. > > > Rose Spike could be made to work as a ghost. I doubt if that's the route they're planning on taking, but I think that ME has the talent to pull if off if that's what they want to do. Ghosty Spike, making his snarky comments, and eternally pissed off because he can't really do anything to whip the bad guy's asses himself could be fun. (Rose probably wouldn't like it though. She'd look at it as just more Spike abuse from the ME staff.) I have fond memories of a British TV series called "Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased)" about a PI working with the ghost of his partner. I hear that they tried to revive it a couple of years ago, but I haven't seen any of those episodes. Spike could work as Angel Investigations "Hopkirk." -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-06-28 00:34:49+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


>Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) >From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net >Date: 6/27/2003 4:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time >Message-id: <bdiiaa$tqdfj$4@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> > >Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: >> I know discussion of Spike can be dicey here but this isn't about whether >he's >> evil, or his relative sex appeal, or whether he will "take over the show" >so I >> think it's probably a safe topic. Warning, S5 rumors/possible spoilers >ahead. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Some people came away from the last fan convention believing Spike will be >a >> ghost on Angel. Someone asked the panel. Drew Z. Greenberg supposedly >looked >> shocked and then ran off the stage, up to the person who asked and >whispered "I >> am so not going to tell you." Some attendees (shouldn't that be attenders >or >> attendants? oh well) heard other statements that made them think "Ghost >Spike >> on AtS" but I don't recall what those statements were. Maybe someone who >went >> to the con can fill in the blanks. Needless to say, many Spike fans aren't >too >> thrilled about this. >> >> I was curious how this ng would react to Spike being on the show as a >ghost. >> >> >> Rose > >I have no idea why anyone would put any stock in some convention >happenings. > I don't see why anyone would not, since the actors and writers appear and speak. Anyway, since Spike was going to be a ghost in the Faith spin-off and Joss has said he wants to respect Spike's sacrifice, it's not that outlandish an idea. Rose

2003-06-28 01:11:08+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (klyfix@aol.comedy)


In article <20030627143959.09751.00001809@mb-m01.aol.com>, fylmfan@aol.comspam (Rose) writes: > >I know discussion of Spike can be dicey here but this isn't about whether >he's >evil, or his relative sex appeal, or whether he will "take over the show" so >I >think it's probably a safe topic. Warning, S5 rumors/possible spoilers >ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Some people came away from the last fan convention believing Spike will be a >ghost on Angel. Someone asked the panel. Drew Z. Greenberg supposedly >looked >shocked and then ran off the stage, up to the person who asked and whispered >"I >am so not going to tell you." Some attendees (shouldn't that be attenders or >attendants? oh well) heard other statements that made them think "Ghost Spike >on AtS" but I don't recall what those statements were. Maybe someone who >went >to the con can fill in the blanks. Needless to say, many Spike fans aren't >too >thrilled about this. > >I was curious how this ng would react to Spike being on the show as a ghost. > > I think that would be pretty darned pointless, actually, and not in fitting with the fact that he made a pretty darned big sacrifice. Ghosts are stuck on this Earth because of some kind of unresolved trauma or as something of a punishment and that so doesn't fit with Spike's situation. That would almost be worse than my suggestion in a future post in rec.arts.sftv (when I get around to it) where I suggest that he'll come back as a cute anime fairy. :) V. S. Greene : klyfix@aol.com : Boston, near Arkham... Eckzylon: http://m1.aol.com/klyfix/eckzylon.html "Death and Poverty love me so much they brought friends!"-Vash in "Trigun"

2003-06-28 07:08:15+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


Don wrote: (spoilers) >(Rose probably >wouldn't like it though. True. > She'd look at it as just more Spike abuse >from the ME staff.) Quite a few Spike fans see it that way. I don't. I just think it's incredibly lame. Rose

2003-06-29 03:39:38+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Fenster <r84gt27q8@hotmail.com>)


On 27 Jun 2003, klyfix@aol.comedy (Klyfix) went to the cliffs of hope and faith and kicked the toll booth off: > I think that would be pretty darned pointless, actually, and not > in fitting with the fact that he made a pretty darned big > sacrifice. Ghosts are stuck on this Earth because of some kind of > unresolved trauma or as something of a punishment and that so > doesn't fit with Spike's situation. That would almost be worse > than my suggestion in a future post in rec.arts.sftv (when I get > around to it) where I suggest that he'll come back as a cute anime > fairy. :) Spike as The Great Kazoo ;)

2003-06-29 11:27:04+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote in message news:20030628030815.07482.00001865@mb-m22.aol.com... > Don wrote: > > (spoilers) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >(Rose probably > >wouldn't like it though. > > True. > > > She'd look at it as just more Spike abuse > >from the ME staff.) > > Quite a few Spike fans see it that way. I don't. I just think it's incredibly > lame. > > > > Rose Not even if he were dressed all in glowy white, except for his hair, like PhantomJoyce? And he can finally go out in the sunshine? Be selectively visible and audible to the Scoob-er, the AI gang? -- Ken from Chicago

2003-06-29 13:27:32+02:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Wouter Valentijn <WouterValentijn@Wish.net>)


"Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> schreef in bericht news:20030627143959.09751.00001809@mb-m01.aol.com... > I know discussion of Spike can be dicey here but this isn't about whether he's > evil, or his relative sex appeal, or whether he will "take over the show" so I > think it's probably a safe topic. Warning, S5 rumors/possible spoilers ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some people came away from the last fan convention believing Spike will be a > ghost on Angel. Someone asked the panel. Drew Z. Greenberg supposedly looked > shocked and then ran off the stage, up to the person who asked and whispered "I > am so not going to tell you." Some attendees (shouldn't that be attenders or > attendants? oh well) heard other statements that made them think "Ghost Spike > on AtS" but I don't recall what those statements were. Maybe someone who went > to the con can fill in the blanks. Needless to say, many Spike fans aren't too > thrilled about this. > > I was curious how this ng would react to Spike being on the show as a ghost. I would think it could be cool. Spike back as souled vamp would be too much like Angel. Spike back as a human would be like Darla, but Spike as a ghost... I think that could be great.. Spike: 'Bloody hell! I've become Casper!' But I think he would get used to it eventually and discover he could 'bump in the night'... ;-) > > > Rose -- Wouter Valentijn www.zeppodunsel.nl With fanfics and essays, some in Dutch, some in English Transferpromedion > > > > >

2003-06-29 14:45:00+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: >>Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) >>From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net >>Date: 6/27/2003 4:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>Message-id: <bdiiaa$tqdfj$4@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> >>I have no idea why anyone would put any stock in some convention >>happenings. > I don't see why anyone would not, since the actors and writers appear and > speak. Yes, and actors and writers are so reliable. > Anyway, since Spike was going to be a ghost in the Faith spin-off and Joss has > said he wants to respect Spike's sacrifice, it's not that outlandish an idea. > > Rose No, it's possible. Just as a million other things are possible. My understanding is that they just started writing S5. We'll see how it turns out. Personally, they can say whatever the heck they want, and I don't believe a single word of it. I believe what I see on screen, when I see it on the screen. The ME team has a pathetic record when it comes to honesty or to self-analysis. As do most artists. -- AE Jabbour "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." Kate, "Lonely Hearts"

2003-06-29 15:34:00+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"AE Jabbour" <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:bdmu1c$v0k68$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de... > Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: > >>Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) > >>From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net > >>Date: 6/27/2003 4:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time > >>Message-id: <bdiiaa$tqdfj$4@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> > > >>I have no idea why anyone would put any stock in some convention > >>happenings. > > > I don't see why anyone would not, since the actors and writers appear and > > speak. > > Yes, and actors and writers are so reliable. > > > > Anyway, since Spike was going to be a ghost in the Faith spin-off and Joss has > > said he wants to respect Spike's sacrifice, it's not that outlandish an idea. > > > > Rose > > No, it's possible. Just as a million other things are possible. My > understanding is that they just started writing S5. We'll see how > it turns out. > > Personally, they can say whatever the heck they want, and I don't > believe a single word of it. I believe what I see on screen, when > I see it on the screen. The ME team has a pathetic record when > it comes to honesty or to self-analysis. As do most artists. > > -- > AE Jabbour What?!! You DARE to DOUBT Mutant Enemy's predictions about what will appear on future episodes?!! How DARE you? On what POSSIBLE basis do you have for having even one IOTA of doubt? -- Ken from Chicago

2003-06-29 15:43:54+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: > "AE Jabbour" <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:bdmu1c$v0k68$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de... >> Personally, they can say whatever the heck they want, and I don't >> believe a single word of it. I believe what I see on screen, when >> I see it on the screen. The ME team has a pathetic record when >> it comes to honesty or to self-analysis. As do most artists. >> >> -- >> AE Jabbour > > What?!! You DARE to DOUBT Mutant Enemy's predictions about what will appear > on future episodes?!! How DARE you? On what POSSIBLE basis do you have for > having even one IOTA of doubt? > > -- Ken from Chicago *hangs head in shame* I know. I'm bad. I'm very, very bad. I'm sorry. -- AE Jabbour "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." Kate, "Lonely Hearts"

2003-06-29 17:48:04+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"AE Jabbour" <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:bdn1fp$tv77q$4@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de... > Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: > > > "AE Jabbour" <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message > > news:bdmu1c$v0k68$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de... > > >> Personally, they can say whatever the heck they want, and I don't > >> believe a single word of it. I believe what I see on screen, when > >> I see it on the screen. The ME team has a pathetic record when > >> it comes to honesty or to self-analysis. As do most artists. > >> > >> -- > >> AE Jabbour > > > > What?!! You DARE to DOUBT Mutant Enemy's predictions about what will appear > > on future episodes?!! How DARE you? On what POSSIBLE basis do you have for > > having even one IOTA of doubt? > > > > -- Ken from Chicago > > *hangs head in shame* > > I know. I'm bad. I'm very, very bad. > > I'm sorry. > > -- > AE Jabbour That's more like it. Now here, have some heart mints, one with "There will be no 2nd slayer" and a "Ok, but after Kendra, there will be no third slayer" engraved in teeny tiny letters. -- Ken from Chicago

2003-06-29 20:55:50+08:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Blaine Haldane <bhaldane@hotmail.com>)


"st" <striketoo@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ssltfv8dlc9uruhog6jj0ggriqe9lb6glj@4ax.com... > On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 23:35:16 -0400, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> > wrote: > > >Spike could be made to work as a ghost. I doubt if that's the route > >they're planning on taking, but I think that ME has the talent to pull > >if off if that's what they want to do. Ghosty Spike, making his snarky > >comments, and eternally pissed off because he can't really do anything > >to whip the bad guy's asses himself could be fun. (Rose probably > >wouldn't like it though. She'd look at it as just more Spike abuse > >from the ME staff.) > > > >I have fond memories of a British TV series called "Randall and Hopkirk > >(Deceased)" about a PI working with the ghost of his partner. I hear > >that they tried to revive it a couple of years ago, but I haven't seen > >any of those episodes. Spike could work as Angel Investigations > >"Hopkirk." > > > Actually Quantum Leap was basically just a reworking of that type of > premise. And I can totally see Angel/Spike working in a similar > fashion to Sam/Al. > > And really, if you were going to send Spike to hell and make him pay > for his past misdeeds, thats actually a pretty creative punishment. > > Although that said, you'd have to make sure Spike is an 'external' > ghost, and not the variety that shows up in Angel's head. I can just > picture, with huge amounts of dread, a scene were Angelus and Spike > duke it out while Angel stands around rolling his eyes. > > An Angel with two competing devils on his shoulders. > > The whole season in fact could take place in Angel's subconscious. > > Someone stop me.... please. Or ... reconstruction of the hero could be part of the amulet's magic - possibly as a human, hence the requirement for a soul. A fitting reward for the ultimate act of self sacrifice, and symbolizing Spike's ongoing, often reluctant, quest for redemption. 'Course, he'd better be reconstructed somewhere ELSE! Blaine -------------------------------------------- In this world, there are only two tragedies. One is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it. Oscar Wilde --------------------------------------------

2003-06-29 22:54:08-04:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Kathrine <thisisfake@nowhere.com>)


The amulet was made for a champion, right? How was Spike any more a champion than Angel? -- The art of photography lies not in the perfection of your subject, but in the imperfection. -Kathrine

2003-06-30 04:41:51+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net>)


In article <3effab4b$0$22127@echo-01.iinet.net.au>, Blaine Haldane <bhaldane@hotmail.com> wrote: > "Kathrine" <thisisfake@nowhere.com> wrote in message > news:vfv9mfs3vsqa84@corp.supernews.com... > > The amulet was made for a champion, right? How was Spike any more a > > champion than Angel? > > Yes, argueable point. > > Angel, however, was much better placed to lead the second front if the > Scoobies failed - hence Buffy chose Spike for the amulet. actually she didn't. Spike choose himself. buffy could have come back with the fact that she's not perfectly human herself (as evidenced by her being a slayer, and by the fact that the chip didn't work anymore). Spike didn't give her the chance. He more or less told her that he was wearing it and she had no say. > I gotta say for Spike though, that originally he was a better human than > Liam (even if he was a total wuss), and that Spike started on his quest for > redemption *before* he ever got a soul. > good point. > 'Course, not exactly a fair comparison, since we never saw Angelus with a > chip. I suspect he'd never be trustworthy to any extent as Spike was. I would have to agree with this one. Liam was a pretty worthless shit as a young man. He was likely going to end up in jail or dead at the rate he was going. William was a pansy but he was at heart a good person. He wouldn't have ever made it to hero status but at least he wouldn't be a villian either. more like a victim.

2003-06-30 04:46:16+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (kamil24361@aol.comeback)


> >fylmfan@aol.comspam (Rose) wrote in message >news:<20030627143959.09751.00001809@mb-m01.aol.com>... >> I know discussion of Spike can be dicey here but this isn't about whether >he's >> evil, or his relative sex appeal, or whether he will "take over the show" >so I >> think it's probably a safe topic. Warning, S5 rumors/possible spoilers >ahead. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Personally, I'm for anything that pisses his fans off, 'cause it gives me a happy. More JM appearances at cons would be a nifty start. -- Kamil "I'm tired of hearing about that Spike guy." "Empty Places" BtVS

2003-06-30 09:53:07-07:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (reldevik@usa.net)


PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<290620032142164002%antarian@pacbell.net>... > In article <3effab4b$0$22127@echo-01.iinet.net.au>, Blaine Haldane > <bhaldane@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > "Kathrine" <thisisfake@nowhere.com> wrote in message > > news:vfv9mfs3vsqa84@corp.supernews.com... > > > The amulet was made for a champion, right? How was Spike any more a > > > champion than Angel? > > > > Yes, argueable point. > > > > Angel, however, was much better placed to lead the second front if the > > Scoobies failed - hence Buffy chose Spike for the amulet. > > actually she didn't. Spike choose himself. buffy could have come back > with the fact that she's not perfectly human herself (as evidenced by > her being a slayer, and by the fact that the chip didn't work anymore). > Spike didn't give her the chance. He more or less told her that he was > wearing it and she had no say. --Of course she had a say. Spike didn't grab the amulet out of Buffy's hand by force. He asked for it, she pondered his request, and then she decided to grant it. She could have decided against it. She decided in favor because she recognized that Spike had it in him to be a champion. The accurate way to put this would be to say that Spike volunteered to wear the amulet, and Buffy concurred. But if she didn't concur she wouldn't have handed Spike the amulet. Clairel

2003-06-30 11:15:52+08:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Blaine Haldane <bhaldane@hotmail.com>)


"Kathrine" <thisisfake@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:vfv9mfs3vsqa84@corp.supernews.com... > The amulet was made for a champion, right? How was Spike any more a > champion than Angel? Yes, argueable point. Angel, however, was much better placed to lead the second front if the Scoobies failed - hence Buffy chose Spike for the amulet. Angel could probably get troops (W&H black-ops teams, at the very least) and has lots of resources now. I gotta say for Spike though, that originally he was a better human than Liam (even if he was a total wuss), and that Spike started on his quest for redemption *before* he ever got a soul. 'Course, not exactly a fair comparison, since we never saw Angelus with a chip. I suspect he'd never be trustworthy to any extent as Spike was. "I gave my word to a lady". Angel's quest for redemption didn't start until a long time after he got his soul back. In the meantime, there was all that sulking and other boorish behaviour. Blaine

2003-06-30 13:07:00+08:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Blaine Haldane <bhaldane@hotmail.com>)


"PJ Browning" <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote > Blaine Haldane <bhaldane@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > "Kathrine" <thisisfake@nowhere.com> wrote in message > > news:vfv9mfs3vsqa84@corp.supernews.com... > > > The amulet was made for a champion, right? How was Spike any more a > > > champion than Angel? > > > > Yes, argueable point. > > > > Angel, however, was much better placed to lead the second front if the > > Scoobies failed - hence Buffy chose Spike for the amulet. > > actually she didn't. Spike choose himself. buffy could have come back > with the fact that she's not perfectly human herself (as evidenced by > her being a slayer, and by the fact that the chip didn't work anymore). > Spike didn't give her the chance. He more or less told her that he was > wearing it and she had no say. Good point, yes, Spike chose himself. And Slayers are not exactly human (but human with an infusion of demon strength/spirit). Although, I think Buffy would have objected, if she hadn't recognised that Spike had it right. The chip confuses things a bit - it wouldn't let Spike attack her before she died, so as far as the chip was concerned, she was human then. I tend to suspect that the chip just failed to recognize her as human because she'd well and truly died, then come back (not typical human behaviour). More a matter of the chip's programming than true (no, make that Buffyverse!) reality. However, that's me filling in the gaps - Tara didn't put it that way after she investigated. Blaine

2003-06-30 15:34:59+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote: > I would have to agree with this one. Liam was a pretty worthless shit > as a young man. He was likely going to end up in jail or dead at the > rate he was going. > > William was a pansy but he was at heart a good person. He wouldn't have > ever made it to hero status but at least he wouldn't be a villian > either. more like a victim. Oh please. Neither of them were worth anything. And how do we know that William was a good person? Because he wrote bad poetry and loved his mother? So? Liam was a drunken, wenching, layabout. There are worse things someone could be, honestly. He wasn't doing anything good, but he wasn't a villain either. He was just a drunken, wenching, layabout. So what? I don't think there is any evidence that either of those guys were going to amount to much. -- AE Jabbour "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." Kate, "Lonely Hearts"

2003-06-30 15:48:11-07:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (himiko@animail.net)


PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<300620031112049334%antarian@pacbell.net>... > In article <1faed770.0306300853.6907610@posting.google.com>, Clairel > <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > > > > > The accurate way to put this would be to say that Spike volunteered to > > wear the amulet, and Buffy concurred. But if she didn't concur she > > wouldn't have handed Spike the amulet. > > > I have no doubt in my mind that had she not concurred, Spike would have > stolen it from her. He got it in his brain that he was going to wear > it, not her. LOL. This has got to be a classic; the ultimate in Spike-hatery. Spike backed off very noticibly, hanging his head, all too aware that he wasn't any kind of champion in Buffy's eyes. Probably not his own either; he commented on the fact when she finally gave him the amulet. Note: this is not an argument against your post since clearly you are determined to see what you saw. It gave me a good giggle though. himiko

2003-06-30 16:25:21+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net>)


In article <3effc558$0$22123@echo-01.iinet.net.au>, Blaine Haldane <bhaldane@hotmail.com> wrote: > "PJ Browning" <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote > > Blaine Haldane <bhaldane@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > "Kathrine" <thisisfake@nowhere.com> wrote in message > > > news:vfv9mfs3vsqa84@corp.supernews.com... > > > > The amulet was made for a champion, right? How was Spike any more a > > > > champion than Angel? > > > > > > Yes, argueable point. > > > > > > Angel, however, was much better placed to lead the second front if the > > > Scoobies failed - hence Buffy chose Spike for the amulet. > > > > actually she didn't. Spike choose himself. buffy could have come back > > with the fact that she's not perfectly human herself (as evidenced by > > her being a slayer, and by the fact that the chip didn't work anymore). > > Spike didn't give her the chance. He more or less told her that he was > > wearing it and she had no say. > > Good point, yes, Spike chose himself. And Slayers are not exactly human (but > human with an infusion of demon strength/spirit). > > Although, I think Buffy would have objected, if she hadn't recognised that > Spike had it right. I think she recognized that Spike was doing the same thing to her that she did to Angel. She made Angel leave as much because she loves him as the fact that she needed a back up plan. Spike was afraid that that much power might exact a high price and he didn't want Buffy to be the one to pay it (because he loves her). And then there was also the unspoken "and if it doesn't work . . . " which was rather likely since they had no idea what the thing did or how to start it up. They could be missing some important spell or something and just have a pretty babble on their hands.

2003-06-30 18:11:37+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net>)


In article <1faed770.0306300853.6907610@posting.google.com>, Clairel <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > > The accurate way to put this would be to say that Spike volunteered to > wear the amulet, and Buffy concurred. But if she didn't concur she > wouldn't have handed Spike the amulet. I have no doubt in my mind that had she not concurred, Spike would have stolen it from her. He got it in his brain that he was going to wear it, not her.

2003-06-30 19:28:52+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Griffin Mills <khayes101@prodigy.net>)


Anya should have got it.... "PJ Browning" <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:300620031112049334%antarian@pacbell.net... > In article <1faed770.0306300853.6907610@posting.google.com>, Clairel > <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > > > > > The accurate way to put this would be to say that Spike volunteered to > > wear the amulet, and Buffy concurred. But if she didn't concur she > > wouldn't have handed Spike the amulet. > > > I have no doubt in my mind that had she not concurred, Spike would have > stolen it from her. He got it in his brain that he was going to wear > it, not her.

2003-06-30 21:47:03-04:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Kathrine <thisisfake@nowhere.com>)


Spike had a chip forced upon him. Either way, Angel and Spike both had "goodness" thrown in their faces. After reading everyone else's opinion, I've decided that Spike is the underdog in all of this. Angel seems more like the champion because everything he's done or is doing is out there... Spike isn't. Back to the amulet though.. I think Buffy didn't argue too much about Spike taking the amulet because she thought the one who took the amulet would end up getting hurt or dead. Notice how she refused to give Angel the amulet?.... -- The art of photography lies not in the perfection of your subject, but in the imperfection. -Kathrine

2003-06-30 22:13:15+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


>Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) >From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net >Date: 6/30/2003 8:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time >Message-id: <bdplb2$unh64$1@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> > >PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote: > >> I would have to agree with this one. Liam was a pretty worthless shit >> as a young man. He was likely going to end up in jail or dead at the >> rate he was going. >> >> William was a pansy but he was at heart a good person. He wouldn't have >> ever made it to hero status but at least he wouldn't be a villian >> either. more like a victim. > >Oh please. > >Neither of them were worth anything. And how do we know that >William was a good person? Because he wrote bad poetry and >loved his mother? So? > It's good for an offspring to take responsibility for an ailing parent, which Liam did. We really don't know enough about him to know that he's an especially good person, but we rarely do when introduced briefly to characters. Usually if the writers want us to think a character is bad they give us good reason to think it. They don't leave it up in the air. I'd say William was supposed to be a decent enough guy, though not necessarily any kind of saint. >Liam was a drunken, wenching, layabout. There are worse >things someone could be, honestly. He wasn't doing >anything good, but he wasn't a villain >either. According to at least one tavern wench, he deceived women to get them into bed. If she was right, that's villainous in my book. OTOH, Angelus wasn't the world's biggest asshole. He was just a jerk, or maybe even a basically good person going through a jerk phase. Like Buffy in S6. :) Rose

2003-06-30 22:14:27+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


AEJ wrote: > I believe what I see on screen, when >I see it on the screen. The ME team has a pathetic record when >it comes to honesty or to self-analysis. As do most artists. > I can't say I agree with that general slam on millions of people. Rose

2003-06-30 22:24:07+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


> OTOH, Angelus wasn't the >world's biggest asshole. Er, make that Liam. Man, I'm thick today. Rose

2003-06-30 22:40:40-07:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (dxgarten@ignmail.com)


fylmfan@aol.comspam (Rose) wrote in message news:<20030627143959.09751.00001809@mb-m01.aol.com>... > I know discussion of Spike can be dicey here but this isn't about whether he's > evil, or his relative sex appeal, or whether he will "take over the show" so I > think it's probably a safe topic. Warning, S5 rumors/possible spoilers ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some people came away from the last fan convention believing Spike will be a > ghost on Angel. I don't care what Spike will be on Angel as long as he's not the center of the attention of the story/other characters' story. And as long as he doesn't steal the role that other characters have filled on "Angel" (best friend/confidant/reluctant allies, etc).

2003-06-30 23:39:07+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"Kathrine" <thisisfake@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:vfv9mfs3vsqa84@corp.supernews.com... > The amulet was made for a champion, right? How was Spike any more a > champion than Angel? > > -- > The art of photography lies not in the perfection of your subject, but in > the imperfection. > -Kathrine Spike fought for souldom while a vampire. Angel had it forced upon him. -- Ken from Chicago

2003-07-01 00:41:43+08:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Blaine Haldane <bhaldane@hotmail.com>)


"PJ Browning" <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:300620030925506855%antarian@pacbell.net... > In article <3effc558$0$22123@echo-01.iinet.net.au>, Blaine Haldane > <bhaldane@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > "PJ Browning" <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote > > > Blaine Haldane <bhaldane@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > "Kathrine" <thisisfake@nowhere.com> wrote in message > > > > news:vfv9mfs3vsqa84@corp.supernews.com... > > > > > The amulet was made for a champion, right? How was Spike any more a > > > > > champion than Angel? > > > > > > > > Yes, argueable point. > > > > > > > > Angel, however, was much better placed to lead the second front if the > > > > Scoobies failed - hence Buffy chose Spike for the amulet. > > > > > > actually she didn't. Spike choose himself. buffy could have come back > > > with the fact that she's not perfectly human herself (as evidenced by > > > her being a slayer, and by the fact that the chip didn't work anymore). > > > Spike didn't give her the chance. He more or less told her that he was > > > wearing it and she had no say. > > > > Good point, yes, Spike chose himself. And Slayers are not exactly human (but > > human with an infusion of demon strength/spirit). > > > > Although, I think Buffy would have objected, if she hadn't recognised that > > Spike had it right. > > I think she recognized that Spike was doing the same thing to her that > she did to Angel. She made Angel leave as much because she loves him as > the fact that she needed a back up plan. Spike was afraid that that > much power might exact a high price and he didn't want Buffy to be the > one to pay it (because he loves her). And then there was also the > unspoken "and if it doesn't work . . . " which was rather likely since > they had no idea what the thing did or how to start it up. They could > be missing some important spell or something and just have a pretty > babble on their hands. Nice one, I like it. Blaine

2003-07-01 04:05:34+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: >>Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) >>From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net >>Date: 6/30/2003 8:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time >>Message-id: <bdplb2$unh64$1@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> >>Liam was a drunken, wenching, layabout. There are worse >>things someone could be, honestly. He wasn't doing >>anything good, but he wasn't a villain >either. > > According to at least one tavern wench, he deceived women to get them into bed. > If she was right, that's villainous in my book. OTOH, Angelus wasn't the > world's biggest asshole. He was just a jerk, or maybe even a basically good > person going through a jerk phase. Like Buffy in S6. :) > > > Rose Then we have entirely different understandings of the word 'villain.' Angelus, the vampire, is a villain. Faith, when she worked for the Mayor, was a villain. If the worst Liam did was deceive a woman to get her in the sack, then at worst he is a jerk. That's a number of orders of magnitude from being a villain in my book. -- AE Jabbour "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." Kate, "Lonely Hearts"

2003-07-01 09:15:48+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"Kathrine" <thisisfake@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:vg1q4ohfq8du05@corp.supernews.com... > Spike had a chip forced upon him. Either way, Angel and Spike both had > "goodness" thrown in their faces. After reading everyone else's opinion, > I've decided that Spike is the underdog in all of this. Angel seems more > like the champion because everything he's done or is doing is out there... > Spike isn't. Back to the amulet though.. I think Buffy didn't argue too > much about Spike taking the amulet because she thought the one who took the > amulet would end up getting hurt or dead. Notice how she refused to give > Angel the amulet?.... > > -- > The art of photography lies not in the perfection of your subject, but in > the imperfection. > -Kathrine She believed in Spike--and wanted to give him a chance. Giles and Wood and Xander and some of the Potentials had their doubts about Spike, even after all he's done, then again with that whole trigger deal those doubts were not entirely without basis, Buffy wanted to show she still believed in him. Besides it was the only way to do so without getting all romancey, well overtly romancey. -- Ken from Chicago

2003-07-01 09:19:06+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote in message news:20030630181315.04151.00001526@mb-m22.aol.com... > >Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) > >From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net > >Date: 6/30/2003 8:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time > >Message-id: <bdplb2$unh64$1@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> > > > >PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote: > > > >> I would have to agree with this one. Liam was a pretty worthless shit > >> as a young man. He was likely going to end up in jail or dead at the > >> rate he was going. > >> > >> William was a pansy but he was at heart a good person. He wouldn't have > >> ever made it to hero status but at least he wouldn't be a villian > >> either. more like a victim. > > > >Oh please. > > > >Neither of them were worth anything. And how do we know that > >William was a good person? Because he wrote bad poetry and > >loved his mother? So? > > > > It's good for an offspring to take responsibility for an ailing parent, which > Liam did. We really don't know enough about him to know that he's an LIAM?! Was his mom sick, cuz I remember his being strong enough to whack him about the head. > especially good person, but we rarely do when introduced briefly to characters. > Usually if the writers want us to think a character is bad they give us good > reason to think it. They don't leave it up in the air. I'd say William was > supposed to be a decent enough guy, though not necessarily any kind of saint. > > >Liam was a drunken, wenching, layabout. There are worse > >things someone could be, honestly. He wasn't doing > >anything good, but he wasn't a villain >either. > > According to at least one tavern wench, he deceived women to get them into bed. > If she was right, that's villainous in my book. OTOH, Angelus wasn't the > world's biggest asshole. He was just a jerk, or maybe even a basically good > person going through a jerk phase. Like Buffy in S6. :) > > > Rose -- Ken from Chicago

2003-07-01 09:20:07+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"AE Jabbour" <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:bdr1ae$vqdor$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de... > Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: > > >>Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) > >>From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net > >>Date: 6/30/2003 8:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time > >>Message-id: <bdplb2$unh64$1@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> > > >>Liam was a drunken, wenching, layabout. There are worse > >>things someone could be, honestly. He wasn't doing > >>anything good, but he wasn't a villain >either. > > > > According to at least one tavern wench, he deceived women to get them into bed. > > If she was right, that's villainous in my book. OTOH, Angelus wasn't the > > world's biggest asshole. He was just a jerk, or maybe even a basically good > > person going through a jerk phase. Like Buffy in S6. :) > > > > > > Rose > > Then we have entirely different understandings of the word > 'villain.' Angelus, the vampire, is a villain. Faith, when > she worked for the Mayor, was a villain. > > If the worst Liam did was deceive a woman to get her in > the sack, then at worst he is a jerk. That's a number > of orders of magnitude from being a villain in my book. Not according to Lifetime channel. -- Ken from Chicago

2003-07-01 10:19:19-07:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (kenm47@ix.netcom.com)


"Ken" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<vS3Ma.7717$BM.2735314@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>... > "Kathrine" <thisisfake@nowhere.com> wrote in message > news:vfv9mfs3vsqa84@corp.supernews.com... > > The amulet was made for a champion, right? How was Spike any more a > > champion than Angel? > > > > -- > > The art of photography lies not in the perfection of your subject, but in > > the imperfection. > > -Kathrine > > Spike fought for souldom while a vampire. Angel had it forced upon him. > > -- Ken from Chicago Oh please. And his sacrifice in "I Will Remember You" was nada? Ken (from Brooklyn)

2003-07-01 15:43:46+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (manyonetoo@aol.com)


> fylmfan@aol.comspam (Rose)L>Warning, S5 rumors/possible spoilers ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Some people came away from the last fan convention believing Spike will be a >ghost on Angel. Someone asked the panel. Drew Z. Greenberg supposedly >looked >shocked and then ran off the stage, up to the person who asked and whispered >"I >am so not going to tell you." Some attendees (shouldn't that be attenders or >attendants? oh well) heard other statements that made them think "Ghost Spike >on AtS" but I don't recall what those statements were. Has anyone pointed out that Drew Z. Greenberg no longer works for Mutant Enemy? He's writing for "Smallville" next season. Drew Goddard, on the other hand, will be a writer for AtS--and he comes across as smart enough to not give away a major plot twist at a con. manyonetoo@aol.com Buffy: "Do I like shrubs?" Xander: "That's between you and your god." --"What's My Line? Pt. 1" by Marti Noxon and Howard Gordon

2003-07-01 15:49:36-07:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (kenm47@ix.netcom.com)


AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<bdshh2$10dqo5$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de>... > kenm47 <kenm47@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > "Ken" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<vS3Ma.7717$BM.2735314@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>... > > >> Spike fought for souldom while a vampire. Angel had it forced upon him. > >> > >> -- Ken from Chicago > > > > Oh please. And his sacrifice in "I Will Remember You" was nada? > > > > Ken (from Brooklyn) > > Ken, I'm surprised by you. Don't you realize that no matter > what Angel does, no matter how he acts, what actions he takes, > or avoids, no matter what sacrifices he makes, that he is > is just a Spike-wannabe? > > Don't you realize that Angel could never attain the > high level of champion status which Spike attained, > since Angel had forced on him his soul? > > I mean, where have you been the past three years? Pretty much grinding my teeth and bitching, but you knew that. <g> Ken

2003-07-01 17:44:27+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: > > "AE Jabbour" <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:bdr1ae$vqdor$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de... >> If the worst Liam did was deceive a woman to get her in >> the sack, then at worst he is a jerk. That's a number >> of orders of magnitude from being a villain in my book. > > Not according to Lifetime channel. > > -- Ken from Chicago LOL Sheesh, I should have consulted them. Darn. -- AE Jabbour "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." Kate, "Lonely Hearts"

2003-07-01 17:48:18+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


kenm47 <kenm47@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > "Ken" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<vS3Ma.7717$BM.2735314@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>... >> Spike fought for souldom while a vampire. Angel had it forced upon him. >> >> -- Ken from Chicago > > Oh please. And his sacrifice in "I Will Remember You" was nada? > > Ken (from Brooklyn) Ken, I'm surprised by you. Don't you realize that no matter what Angel does, no matter how he acts, what actions he takes, or avoids, no matter what sacrifices he makes, that he is is just a Spike-wannabe? Don't you realize that Angel could never attain the high level of champion status which Spike attained, since Angel had forced on him his soul? I mean, where have you been the past three years? -- AE Jabbour "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." Kate, "Lonely Hearts"

2003-07-01 19:53:23+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net>)


In article <4c527512.0307010919.324b116f@posting.google.com>, kenm47 <kenm47@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > "Ken" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message > news:<vS3Ma.7717$BM.2735314@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>... > > "Kathrine" <thisisfake@nowhere.com> wrote in message > > news:vfv9mfs3vsqa84@corp.supernews.com... > > > The amulet was made for a champion, right? How was Spike any more a > > > champion than Angel? > > > > > > -- > > > The art of photography lies not in the perfection of your subject, but in > > > the imperfection. > > > -Kathrine > > > > Spike fought for souldom while a vampire. Angel had it forced upon him. > > > > -- Ken from Chicago > > Oh please. And his sacrifice in "I Will Remember You" was nada? they are talking about the initial receipt of the soul. not about all incidents afterwards. in some ways Spike was a better person than Angel because he didn't have a soul and he was more or less a nice guy. oh wait, he had a chip. a possibly removeable check on his behavior. never mind.

2003-07-01 22:26:19+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


AEJ wrote: > >If the worst Liam did was deceive a woman to get her in >the sack, then at worst he is a jerk. That's a number >of orders of magnitude from being a villain >in my book. I think engaging in Parker Abrams behavior is evil. A pettier form of evil than mass murder, to be sure, but it's still evil. Rose

2003-07-01 23:47:49+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"kenm47" <kenm47@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:4c527512.0307010919.324b116f@posting.google.com... > "Ken" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<vS3Ma.7717$BM.2735314@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>... > > "Kathrine" <thisisfake@nowhere.com> wrote in message > > news:vfv9mfs3vsqa84@corp.supernews.com... > > > The amulet was made for a champion, right? How was Spike any more a > > > champion than Angel? > > > > > > -- > > > The art of photography lies not in the perfection of your subject, but in > > > the imperfection. > > > -Kathrine > > > > Spike fought for souldom while a vampire. Angel had it forced upon him. > > > > -- Ken from Chicago > > Oh please. And his sacrifice in "I Will Remember You" was nada? > > Ken (from Brooklyn) What sacrifice? What season was that? -- Ken from Chicago

2003-07-01 23:49:22+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"AE Jabbour" <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:bdshh2$10dqo5$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de... > kenm47 <kenm47@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > "Ken" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<vS3Ma.7717$BM.2735314@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>... > > >> Spike fought for souldom while a vampire. Angel had it forced upon him. > >> > >> -- Ken from Chicago > > > > Oh please. And his sacrifice in "I Will Remember You" was nada? > > > > Ken (from Brooklyn) > > Ken, I'm surprised by you. Don't you realize that no matter > what Angel does, no matter how he acts, what actions he takes, > or avoids, no matter what sacrifices he makes, that he is > is just a Spike-wannabe? > > Don't you realize that Angel could never attain the > high level of champion status which Spike attained, > since Angel had forced on him his soul? > > I mean, where have you been the past three years? > > -- > AE Jabbour Well, to be fair, Angel's still ... pretty good ... in his own right. I mean, hey, he's got his own show, that's gotta count for something. Not to mention a really spiffy hotel. -- Ken from Chicago

2003-07-02 01:47:46+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: > AEJ wrote: > >> >>If the worst Liam did was deceive a woman to get her in >>the sack, then at worst he is a jerk. That's a number >>of orders of magnitude from being a villain >in my book. > > I think engaging in Parker Abrams behavior is evil. A pettier form of > evil than mass murder, to be sure, but it's still evil. > > Rose Then, as I said originally, we are using completely different vocabularies which only look alike. -- AE Jabbour "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." Kate, "Lonely Hearts"

2003-07-02 04:49:40-07:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (kenm47@ix.netcom.com)


AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<bdtdk1$10ii6j$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de>... > Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: > > AEJ wrote: > > > >> > >>If the worst Liam did was deceive a woman to get her in > >>the sack, then at worst he is a jerk. That's a number > >>of orders of magnitude from being a villain >in my book. > > > > I think engaging in Parker Abrams behavior is evil. A pettier form of > > evil than mass murder, to be sure, but it's still evil. > > > > Rose > > Then, as I said originally, we are using completely different > vocabularies which only look alike. I have to agree here Rose. Calling seduction, by wile, of a consenting "adult" female EVIL belittles the word and is one more step along the way to Orwellian newsspeak. Not that the real world on a daily basis isn't already filled with misuses of words destroying definitions. Jokingly, yes evil with a very small "e." In Buffyverse connotation, not even slightly evil, just another means to make Buffy miserable in the days when it was still possible to have a strong empathic bond, even if cross gender. Ken

2003-07-02 04:51:16-07:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (kenm47@ix.netcom.com)


"Ken" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<F4pMa.9757$BM.2977750@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>... > "kenm47" <kenm47@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:4c527512.0307010919.324b116f@posting.google.com... > > "Ken" <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote in message > news:<vS3Ma.7717$BM.2735314@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>... > > > "Kathrine" <thisisfake@nowhere.com> wrote in message > > > news:vfv9mfs3vsqa84@corp.supernews.com... > > > > The amulet was made for a champion, right? How was Spike any more a > > > > champion than Angel? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > The art of photography lies not in the perfection of your subject, but > in > > > > the imperfection. > > > > -Kathrine > > > > > > Spike fought for souldom while a vampire. Angel had it forced upon him. > > > > > > -- Ken from Chicago > > > > Oh please. And his sacrifice in "I Will Remember You" was nada? > > > > Ken (from Brooklyn) > > What sacrifice? What season was that? > > -- Ken from Chicago Angel, Season 1, just after Angel's secret trip to Sunnydale in BTVS' "Pangs." Buffy takes a trip to L.A. and more wrenching heartbreak ensues. Ken

2003-07-02 07:28:13+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"AE Jabbour" <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:bdtdk1$10ii6j$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de... > Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: > > AEJ wrote: > > > >> > >>If the worst Liam did was deceive a woman to get her in > >>the sack, then at worst he is a jerk. That's a number > >>of orders of magnitude from being a villain >in my book. > > > > I think engaging in Parker Abrams behavior is evil. A pettier form of > > evil than mass murder, to be sure, but it's still evil. > > > > Rose > > Then, as I said originally, we are using completely different > vocabularies which only look alike. > -- > AE Jabbour > > "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." > Kate, "Lonely Hearts" How is that different from what you said? ----- Original Message ----- From: "AE Jabbour" <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> Newsgroups: alt.tv.angel Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 11:05 PM Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) > Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: > > >>Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) > >>From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net > >>Date: 6/30/2003 8:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time > >>Message-id: <bdplb2$unh64$1@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> > > >>Liam was a drunken, wenching, layabout. There are worse > >>things someone could be, honestly. He wasn't doing > >>anything good, but he wasn't a villain >either. > > > > According to at least one tavern wench, he deceived women to get them into bed. > > If she was right, that's villainous in my book. OTOH, Angelus wasn't the > > world's biggest asshole. He was just a jerk, or maybe even a basically good > > person going through a jerk phase. Like Buffy in S6. :) > > > > > > Rose > > Then we have entirely different understandings of the word > 'villain.' Angelus, the vampire, is a villain. Faith, when > she worked for the Mayor, was a villain. > > If the worst Liam did was deceive a woman to get her in > the sack, then at worst he is a jerk. That's a number > of orders of magnitude from being a villain in my book. > -- > AE Jabbour > > "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." > Kate, "Lonely Hearts" You're both saying deceiving women inorder to have sex with them is evil, as well as say conspiracy to commit mass murder. You call someone who does the former "a jerk" while Rose calls them also a "jerk" or being "petty"--while Rose seems to imply someone like Angelus who commits mass murder is a "villain" while you agree. You both agree that Liam and Angelus evil, just several orders of "magnitude" of difference on the broad spectrum of evil with Liam on the "jerk" end while Angelus on the "villain" end. You two are actually in substance agreeing. Can't we all just get along? -- Diplomatic Ken from Chicago

2003-07-02 07:41:05+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


>Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) >From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net >Date: 7/1/2003 6:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time >Message-id: <bdtdk1$10ii6j$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> > >Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: >> AEJ wrote: >> >>> >>>If the worst Liam did was deceive a woman to get her in >>>the sack, then at worst he is a jerk. That's a number >>>of orders of magnitude from being a villain >in my book. >> >> I think engaging in Parker Abrams behavior is evil. A pettier form of >> evil than mass murder, to be sure, but it's still evil. >> >> Rose > >Then, as I said originally, we are using completely different >vocabularies which only look alike. >-- According to Merriam-Webster, evil as an adjective means: "1 a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED <an evil impulse> b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a man of evil reputation>" I think making women promises you have no intention of keeping in order to get them into bed is morally reprehensible. Even moreso then, when a compromised woman whose deflowering was discovered could have her life completely ruined. Rose

2003-07-02 09:59:16+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: > > You're both saying deceiving women inorder to have sex with them is evil, as > well as say conspiracy to commit mass murder. You call someone who does the > former "a jerk" while Rose calls them also a "jerk" or being "petty"--while > Rose seems to imply someone like Angelus who commits mass murder is a > "villain" while you agree. > > You both agree that Liam and Angelus evil, just several orders of > "magnitude" of difference on the broad spectrum of evil with Liam on the > "jerk" end while Angelus on the "villain" end. > > You two are actually in substance agreeing. > > Can't we all just get along? > > -- Diplomatic Ken from Chicago No, I am not agreeing that it is villainy or that it is evil. I do not think that bad behavior is necessarily evil, by any means; otherwise, the word 'evil' doesn't mean much. If I accept that cutting in front of someone in line, or not being honest to someone to get in her pants, or taking the last seat on the bus when there is an elderly person who needs it, if I agree that those are 'evil' then I need a whole different word for Darla's bringing the Gypsy girl to Angelus as a gift. But why bother? I already have a word for that: evil. And I have words for those other things, too: tacky, selfish, ignorant, etc. But in this environment, this milieu, where we see real evil on a regular basis, I try and reserve the word 'evil' for those things that are worse than inconsiderate or tacky or mean. -- AE Jabbour "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." Kate, "Lonely Hearts"

2003-07-02 10:00:27+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net>)


"Rose" <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote in message news:20030702034105.09886.00002872@mb-m26.aol.com... > >Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) > >From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net > >Date: 7/1/2003 6:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time > >Message-id: <bdtdk1$10ii6j$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> > > > >Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: > >> AEJ wrote: > >> > >>> > >>>If the worst Liam did was deceive a woman to get her in > >>>the sack, then at worst he is a jerk. That's a number > >>>of orders of magnitude from being a villain >in my book. > >> > >> I think engaging in Parker Abrams behavior is evil. A pettier form of > >> evil than mass murder, to be sure, but it's still evil. > >> > >> Rose > > > >Then, as I said originally, we are using completely different > >vocabularies which only look alike. > >-- > > According to Merriam-Webster, evil as an adjective means: > > "1 a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED <an evil impulse> b : arising > from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a man of evil reputation>" > > I think making women promises you have no intention of keeping in order to get > them into bed is morally reprehensible. Even moreso then, when a compromised > woman whose deflowering was discovered could have her life completely ruined. > > > Rose Psst, Rose, see also "death of a thousand cuts", "water torture", "buried up to neck near red army ants". -- Ken from Chicago

2003-07-02 10:01:50+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: >>Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) >>From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net >>Date: 7/1/2003 6:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>Message-id: <bdtdk1$10ii6j$2@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> >> >>Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: >>> AEJ wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>If the worst Liam did was deceive a woman to get her in >>>>the sack, then at worst he is a jerk. That's a number >>>>of orders of magnitude from being a villain >in my book. >>> >>> I think engaging in Parker Abrams behavior is evil. A pettier form of >>> evil than mass murder, to be sure, but it's still evil. >>> >>> Rose >> >>Then, as I said originally, we are using completely different >>vocabularies which only look alike. >>-- > > According to Merriam-Webster, evil as an adjective means: > > "1 a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED <an evil impulse> b : arising > from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a man of evil reputation>" > > I think making women promises you have no intention of keeping in order to get > them into bed is morally reprehensible. Even moreso then, when a compromised > woman whose deflowering was discovered could have her life completely ruined. > > > Rose Rose, I know you think that. I understand that. I disagree. We have different opinions on the subject. I would call it bad behavior, or mean, or tacky, or some other word. I attempt to reserve evil for those things which are truly, in my mind, vis-a-vis the Buffyverse, 'evil.' That's why I said that we have different vocabularies which only appear to be similar: it's not that either of us is right or wrong, it's that we have different definitions for words. -- AE Jabbour "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." Kate, "Lonely Hearts"

2003-07-02 17:23:25+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net>)


In article <56pMa.9758$BM.2977915@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>, Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> wrote: > > Well, to be fair, Angel's still ... pretty good ... in his own right. I > mean, hey, he's got his own show, that's gotta count for something. Not to > mention a really spiffy hotel. boy are you behind. Angel traded up from spiffy hotel (that has been really trashed of late) to a shiny, self cleaning high rise with magical 'no burn' windows and a motorcade

2003-07-02 23:18:23+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


AEJ wrote: > >That's why I said that we have different vocabularies >which only appear to be similar: it's not that either of >us is right or wrong, it's that we have different >definitions for words. Hey, I backed up MY definition with Merriam Webster. :) Rose

2003-07-02 23:22:27+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


KenM wrote: > >I have to agree here Rose. Well, big fat poopies to you. > Calling seduction, by wile, of a consenting >"adult" female EVIL belittles the word and is one more step along the >way to Orwellian newsspeak. Seduction by wile isn't always evil, but deliberately making someone think you care when you don't, is, imo. It's a kind of soul-murder. I'm not saying it makes the PERSON evil, but the ACT is evil. > >Jokingly, yes evil with a very small "e." In >Buffyverse connotation, I ain't using the Buffyverse connotation, I am using the dictionary definition. Of course, in order to agree it fits the definition, you have to agree the act is morally reprehensible. Which I do. Rose

2003-07-03 06:19:57+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: > AEJ wrote: > >> >>That's why I said that we have different vocabularies >>which only appear to be similar: it's not that either of >>us is right or wrong, it's that we have different >>definitions for words. > > Hey, I backed up MY definition with Merriam Webster. :) > > Rose Yeah, and your deinfinition is ridulous, in terms of the Buffyverse. I'm sorry, I can't take your position at all seriously. given everything we have seen. Cutting out hearts, Apocalypses, murder, slaughter, the killing of children, rape, and excessive violence on each other, all add up to a lot more than just being dishonest to get a girl to give it up. I mean, come on. Maybe you had a bad experience, and I can respect that. But in the Buffyverse, there is MUCH more Evil. -- AE Jabbour "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." Kate, "Lonely Hearts"

2003-07-03 06:34:23+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


>Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) >From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net >Date: 7/2/2003 11:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time >Message-id: <be0hud$117d96$5@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> > >Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: >> AEJ wrote: >> >>> >>>That's why I said that we have different vocabularies >>>which only appear to be similar: it's not that either of >>>us is right or wrong, it's that we have different >>>definitions for words. >> >> Hey, I backed up MY definition with Merriam Webster. :) >> >> Rose > >Yeah, and your deinfinition is ridulous, in terms of >the Buffyverse. > I wasn't using the Buffyverse definition of evil, I was using the real world, dictionary definition. However, if I were to use the Buffyverse definition...Parker was incorporated into Buffyverse evil, AE. Buffy made reference to her men, plural, going evil after they have sex. She said in Pangs "I like my evil like I like my men...'Evil'." Who were the men she was referring to? Angel and....? Don't look at me. Take it up with Mutant Enemy. :) >I'm sorry, I can't take your position at all >seriously. We all have our limitations. ;) >given everything we have seen. > >Cutting out hearts, Apocalypses, murder, slaughter, the >killing of children, rape, and excessive violence on each >other, all add up to a lot more than just being dishonest to >get a girl to give it up. > >I mean, come on. > >Maybe you had a bad experience, and I >can respect that. Ah, you think I take this position because a guy deceitfully promised to love me forever, then screwed me, then dumped me? I've got a little secret for you. That has never happened to me. Seriously, it hasn't. I've been dumped and I've been used like most other members of the dating world have, of course, but not in that particular context. However, I HAVE had other bad experiences. If life has taught me anything it's that often, physical violence doesn't do a fraction of the damage that emotional and psychologically cruelty does. Rape and murder are worse, yes, that's the extreme. I did say that Liam's evil was on a relatively small scale, not comparable to Extreme Demonic Evil. But it was still evil, in my book. More evil than beating a person up for shits and giggles. And THAT I've had happen to me. >But in the Buffyverse, there is MUCH more Evil. > >-- >AE Jabbour > >"Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." > Kate, "Lonely Hearts" > > > > > > Rose

2003-07-03 11:35:15-04:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <300620031112049334%antarian@pacbell.net>, PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net> wrote: > In article <1faed770.0306300853.6907610@posting.google.com>, Clairel > <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > > > > > The accurate way to put this would be to say that Spike volunteered to > > wear the amulet, and Buffy concurred. But if she didn't concur she > > wouldn't have handed Spike the amulet. > > > I have no doubt in my mind that had she not concurred, Spike would have > stolen it from her. He got it in his brain that he was going to wear > it, not her. �Where�s the trinket?� asks Spike. �The who-ket?� asks Buffy. �The pretty necklace your sweetie-bear gave you.� says Spike. �The one with all the power.� Buffy looks down, she�s holding it in her hand. �I believe it�s mine now.� �How do you figure?� asks Buffy. �Someone with a soul, but more than human?� asks Spike. �Angel meant to wear it, that means I�m the qualified party.� He holds out his hand toward her. �It�s volatile.� says Buffy. �We don�t know�� �You�ll be needing someone strong to bear it, then.� says Spike. �You planning on giving it to Andrew?� Buffy pauses for a second. �Angel said the amulet was meant to be worn by a champion.� Spike looks at her for a moment, and then looks away. Buffy steps toward him, and holds out the amulet. She places it into his hand. They stand looking at each other. �Been called a lot of things in my time.� says Spike. ----- Spike spends a little time there thinking that maybe Buffy *doesn't* think he's qualified to wear it. He may have decided later to do an "I'll show her, and take it anyway!" but he wasn't showing any signs of doing that at the time. Faith also fit the "stronger than human, with a soul" requirement, and after Willow did the spell, any of the other girls also qualified. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-07-03 16:17:06+00:00 - Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Rose <fylmfan@aol.comspam> wrote: >>Subject: Re: Spike as a ********* (possible S5 spoilers) >>From: AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net >>Date: 7/2/2003 11:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time >>Message-id: <be0hud$117d96$5@ID-137314.news.dfncis.de> >>> Hey, I backed up MY definition with Merriam Webster. :) >>> >>> Rose >> >>Yeah, and your deinfinition is ridulous, in terms of >>the Buffyverse. >> > > I wasn't using the Buffyverse definition of evil, I was using the real world, > dictionary definition. I know. And I don't think the "real world" definition (and trying to define evil is an extremely complicated task) applies to the Buffyverse. Scratch that. I see what you were saying now. It took me a couple of times reading it to get it. > However, if I were to use the Buffyverse definition...Parker was incorporated > into Buffyverse evil, AE. Buffy made reference to her men, plural, going evil > after they have sex. She said in Pangs "I like my evil like I like my > men...'Evil'." Who were the men she was referring to? Angel and....? > > Don't look at me. Take it up with Mutant Enemy. :) Well, Buffy might see Parker's actions as evil, someone might see a professor giving pop-quizzes as evil. I don't think that makes them so. I think what Parker did, when it comes down to it, was mean. And that is all. Now, if we define as evil as any bad behavior, or unethical behavior, or anything intentionally causing harm, etc., that's one way of defining the word. But then I really believe we would need to find new words for Angelus, for the demons that inhabit the world, for the First [to-be-renamed]. >>I'm sorry, I can't take your position at all >seriously. > > We all have our limitations. ;) OK. Touche. >>Maybe you had a bad experience, and I >can respect that. > > Ah, you think I take this position because a guy deceitfully promised to love > me forever, then screwed me, then dumped me? I shouldn't have written what I did. It was demeaning to the discussion, and in bad taste. I'm sorry about that. -- AE Jabbour "Well, I'm a self-flagellating hypocrite slut." Kate, "Lonely Hearts"