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2004-03-08 21:54:58-08:00 - New 5.18-5.19 information - (reldevik@usa.net)


This information is all from the Spoilerslayer, http://www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002914.php S P A C E ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Some interesting new information has surfaced, passed along by a very good source. There is also other information that should tie into 'Origin', but I'm not solid on what episode this will happen. ----- Origin (5.18) In the episode with Connor, it appears that the box will be broken and everyone, including Connor will regain their full memories. However, Connor will decide that he's happier with his fantasy-family, and return to them. I've gotten secondary confirm from another source that Connor will only be in this episode. Also, possibly happening in this episode (though it could be the end of 'Underneath'), Illyria will bust Gunn out of the torture dimension. Episode 19 Turns out that this episode may not be as lighthearted as I originally expected. It's appears that it's going to be another Illyria-centric episode, where things start going very wrong for her. Fred's body can't contain Illyria's energy, it's just too fragile. As the energy corrupts her, Illyria starts shifting in and out of this dimension. Angel goes after her, finding himself in a number of different realities. In these realities, Illyria kills various members of 'Angel Investigations' (not sure if it's someone other than Fred who dies, or if she kills them after arriving in the dimensions). Wesley finds a way to keep the energy from literally blowing Illyria apart, but in doing so, he also brings more of Fred's personality to the forefront. ----- Just a guess, but I'm thinking that what Wesley does is merge the various alternate reality versions of Fred and Fred/Illyria into one being. Not only making the 'shell' more complete, but mixing more of Fred into Illyria. In the post to follow this one, I think we'll see some of the effects of this. - - - - - - - - Clairel

2004-03-09 09:35:08-06:00 - Re: New 5.18-5.19 information - (Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com>)


reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in news:1faed770.0403082154.7c20cab@posting.google.com: > This information is all from the Spoilerslayer, > http://www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002914.php > > > > S > > > P > > > A > > > C > > > E > > > [snip] > Episode 19 > > Turns out that this episode may not be as lighthearted as I originally > expected. It's appears that it's going to be another Illyria-centric > episode, where things start going very wrong for her. Fred's body > can't contain Illyria's energy, it's just too fragile. As the energy > corrupts her, Illyria starts shifting in and out of this dimension. > Angel goes after her, finding himself in a number of different > realities. In these realities, Illyria kills various members of 'Angel > Investigations' (not sure if it's someone other than Fred who dies, or > if she kills them after arriving in the dimensions). Wesley finds a > way to keep the energy from literally blowing Illyria apart, but in > doing so, he also brings more of Fred's personality to the forefront. Oh, God. Can of worms. Big-ass can of worms... I don't know if I trust ME to completely think through and sensibly depict the concept of "alternate realities," in the sense of "infinite, ongoing parallel dimensions in which Our Heroes are living slightly different lives." This is a *huge* new idea that, contrary to popular belief, was *not* already established in "The Wish" and "Superstar" (because those were *temporary* parallel realities imposed upon this reality), and it introduces a whole boatload of questions and problems that I'm not sure ME is prepared to deal with. For instance: 1. If there are infinite parallel realities based on everything that could have happened in this reality, wouldn't there be an infinite subset of realities in which Buffy failed to stop Glory from using the Key to break down the multiverse? In which case, shouldn't the multiverse be screwed regardless of whether Buffy stopped Glory in *this* world? 2. If there are an infinite number of universes out there that are just slightly different from this one, why haven't Our Heroes or their enemies ever considered traveling to one of them to a) "resurrect" a comrade who's dead in this world, b) retrieve a powerful item that's been destroyed in this reality, or c) conquer a less well-protected Earth, if it's too hard to take over this one? 3. If there are an infinite number of parallel Earths, doesn't that mean there are also infinite versions of every hell dimension, too -- one for each permutation of Earth? Doesn't that then make this kind of interdimensional travel different from the kind Our Heroes usually do? They're not just traveling to a parallel universe; they're traveling to a parallel *multiverse* containing a different version of every world they've ever traveled to before. Ugh. I'm getting a headache just trying to consider all the implications of this revelation. Seems like an awfully big thing to dump on the mythos this late in the game. -- Lord Usher "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."

2004-03-09 10:28:59-08:00 - Re: New 5.18-5.19 information - (Mark Jones <sinanju@pacifier.com>)


Lord Usher wrote: > Oh, God. Can of worms. Big-ass can of worms... > > I don't know if I trust ME to completely think through and sensibly > depict the concept of "alternate realities," in the sense of "infinite, > ongoing parallel dimensions in which Our Heroes are living slightly > different lives." I _know_ I don't trust them to do it well. > This is a *huge* new idea that, contrary to popular belief, was *not* > already established in "The Wish" and "Superstar" (because those were > *temporary* parallel realities imposed upon this reality), and it > introduces a whole boatload of questions and problems that I'm not sure > ME is prepared to deal with. For instance: > > 1. If there are infinite parallel realities based on everything that > could have happened in this reality, wouldn't there be an infinite > subset of realities in which Buffy failed to stop Glory from using the > Key to break down the multiverse? In which case, shouldn't the > multiverse be screwed regardless of whether Buffy stopped Glory in > *this* world? Quiet, you! To Angel Fans everywhere: Pay not attention to the man behind the curtain! > 2. If there are an infinite number of universes out there that are just > slightly different from this one, why haven't Our Heroes or their > enemies ever considered traveling to one of them to a) "resurrect" a > comrade who's dead in this world, b) retrieve a powerful item that's > been destroyed in this reality, or c) conquer a less well-protected > Earth, if it's too hard to take over this one? For the same reason they don't use guns except when it doesn't work? > Ugh. I'm getting a headache just trying to consider all the implications > of this revelation. Seems like an awfully big thing to dump on the > mythos this late in the game. Gahh. They also appear to be bringing back Connor. Guess I won't watch that/those episodes.

2004-03-09 12:24:50-08:00 - Re: New 5.18-5.19 information - (himiko@animail.net)


Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94A761120CE53houseofusher@216.40.28.70>... > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in > news:1faed770.0403082154.7c20cab@posting.google.com: > > > This information is all from the Spoilerslayer, > > http://www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002914.php > > > > > > > > S > > > > > > P > > > > > > A > > > > > > C > > > > > > E > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > Episode 19 > > > > Turns out that this episode may not be as lighthearted as I originally > > expected. It's appears that it's going to be another Illyria-centric > > episode, where things start going very wrong for her. Fred's body > > can't contain Illyria's energy, it's just too fragile. As the energy > > corrupts her, Illyria starts shifting in and out of this dimension. > > Angel goes after her, finding himself in a number of different > > realities. In these realities, Illyria kills various members of 'Angel > > Investigations' (not sure if it's someone other than Fred who dies, or > > if she kills them after arriving in the dimensions). Wesley finds a > > way to keep the energy from literally blowing Illyria apart, but in > > doing so, he also brings more of Fred's personality to the forefront. > > Oh, God. Can of worms. Big-ass can of worms... > > I don't know if I trust ME to completely think through and sensibly > depict the concept of "alternate realities," in the sense of "infinite, > ongoing parallel dimensions in which Our Heroes are living slightly > different lives." > > This is a *huge* new idea that, contrary to popular belief, was *not* > already established in "The Wish" and "Superstar" (because those were > *temporary* parallel realities imposed upon this reality), and it > introduces a whole boatload of questions and problems that I'm not sure > ME is prepared to deal with. For instance: > > 1. If there are infinite parallel realities based on everything that > could have happened in this reality, wouldn't there be an infinite > subset of realities in which Buffy failed to stop Glory from using the > Key to break down the multiverse? In which case, shouldn't the > multiverse be screwed regardless of whether Buffy stopped Glory in > *this* world? > > 2. If there are an infinite number of universes out there that are just > slightly different from this one, why haven't Our Heroes or their > enemies ever considered traveling to one of them to a) "resurrect" a > comrade who's dead in this world, b) retrieve a powerful item that's > been destroyed in this reality, or c) conquer a less well-protected > Earth, if it's too hard to take over this one? > > 3. If there are an infinite number of parallel Earths, doesn't that mean > there are also infinite versions of every hell dimension, too -- one for > each permutation of Earth? Doesn't that then make this kind of > interdimensional travel different from the kind Our Heroes usually do? > They're not just traveling to a parallel universe; they're traveling to > a parallel *multiverse* containing a different version of every world > they've ever traveled to before. > > Ugh. I'm getting a headache just trying to consider all the implications > of this revelation. Seems like an awfully big thing to dump on the > mythos this late in the game. Not necessarily. I haven't seen any indication that these dimensions all exist at the same time, all the time, or even in time. This dimensional business all seems to stem from the unravelling of the Connor mindwipe, suggesting that this was the glitch that brought these particular Sliders-like (as opposed to demon-like) alternate dimensions into existence. Trying to fix the whole mess may be what creates them; I think this may tie into quantum physics or at least Joss's (and my) understanding of quantum physics. I have a feeling this may end quite tragically with Connor choosing to return to his family and Angel agreeing, knowing that once Connor returns, the temporary alternate dimension that holds him and that family will cease to exist. Angel may well have to kill his son again. himiko

2004-03-09 12:40:35-06:00 - Re: New 5.18-5.19 information - (Avatar <avatar@donoteventhinkaboutit.com>)


On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 13:03:57 GMT, "R. Watson" <shanovia@earthlink.net> wrote: > >"Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message >news:1faed770.0403082154.7c20cab@posting.google.com... >> This information is all from the Spoilerslayer, >> http://www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002914.php >> >> >> >> S >> >> >> P >> >> >> A >> >> >> C >> >> >> E >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Some interesting new information has surfaced, passed along by a very >> good source. There is also other information that should tie into >> 'Origin', but I'm not solid on what episode this will happen. >> >> ----- >> >> Origin (5.18) >> >> In the episode with Connor, it appears that the box will be broken and >> everyone, including Connor will regain their full memories. However, >> Connor will decide that he's happier with his fantasy-family, and >> return to them. I've gotten secondary confirm from another source that >> Connor will only be in this episode. >> >> Also, possibly happening in this episode (though it could be the end >> of 'Underneath'), Illyria will bust Gunn out of the torture dimension. >> >> Episode 19 >> >> Turns out that this episode may not be as lighthearted as I originally >> expected. It's appears that it's going to be another Illyria-centric >> episode, where things start going very wrong for her. Fred's body >> can't contain Illyria's energy, it's just too fragile. As the energy >> corrupts her, Illyria starts shifting in and out of this dimension. >> Angel goes after her, finding himself in a number of different >> realities. In these realities, Illyria kills various members of 'Angel >> Investigations' (not sure if it's someone other than Fred who dies, or >> if she kills them after arriving in the dimensions). Wesley finds a >> way to keep the energy from literally blowing Illyria apart, but in >> doing so, he also brings more of Fred's personality to the forefront. >> >> ----- >> >> Just a guess, but I'm thinking that what Wesley does is merge the >> various alternate reality versions of Fred and Fred/Illyria into one >> being. Not only making the 'shell' more complete, but mixing more of >> Fred into Illyria. In the post to follow this one, I think we'll see >> some of the effects of this. >> >> >> - - - - - - - - >> >> Clairel >Thanks Clairel! >All I like to add is that anything that keeps Connor to one episode is a >blessing. > > Less is better though... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sooner or later, all of our names wind up on a Post-It. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

2004-03-09 12:52:55-08:00 - Re: New 5.18-5.19 information - (kurimasta@hotmail.com)


Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94A761120CE53houseofusher@216.40.28.70>... > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in > news:1faed770.0403082154.7c20cab@posting.google.com: > > > This information is all from the Spoilerslayer, > > http://www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002914.php > > > > -= Blaat =- > > > > > > [snip] > > > Episode 19 > > > > Turns out that this episode may not be as lighthearted as I originally > > -= Blaat =- > > doing so, he also brings more of Fred's personality to the forefront. > > Oh, God. Can of worms. Big-ass can of worms... > > I don't know if I trust ME to completely think through and sensibly > depict the concept of "alternate realities," in the sense of "infinite, > ongoing parallel dimensions in which Our Heroes are living slightly > different lives." > > This is a *huge* new idea that, contrary to popular belief, was *not* > already established in "The Wish" and "Superstar" (because those were > *temporary* parallel realities imposed upon this reality), and it > introduces a whole boatload of questions and problems that I'm not sure > ME is prepared to deal with. For instance: > > 1. If there are infinite parallel realities based on everything that > could have happened in this reality, wouldn't there be an infinite > subset of realities in which Buffy failed to stop Glory from using the > Key to break down the multiverse? In which case, shouldn't the > multiverse be screwed regardless of whether Buffy stopped Glory in > *this* world? > > 2. If there are an infinite number of universes out there that are just > slightly different from this one, why haven't Our Heroes or their > enemies ever considered traveling to one of them to a) "resurrect" a > comrade who's dead in this world, b) retrieve a powerful item that's > been destroyed in this reality, or c) conquer a less well-protected > Earth, if it's too hard to take over this one? > > 3. If there are an infinite number of parallel Earths, doesn't that mean > there are also infinite versions of every hell dimension, too -- one for > each permutation of Earth? Doesn't that then make this kind of > interdimensional travel different from the kind Our Heroes usually do? > They're not just traveling to a parallel universe; they're traveling to > a parallel *multiverse* containing a different version of every world > they've ever traveled to before. > > Ugh. I'm getting a headache just trying to consider all the implications > of this revelation. Seems like an awfully big thing to dump on the > mythos this late in the game. Question 1 might be because tearing the boundries between two DIMENSIONS (as they called it) doesn't mean all parallel universes collide with each other as well, it just meant Earth (in that parallel world) is screwed! Perhaps traveling between parallel worlds needs so much power only entities like Ifreilia (or whatever) can travel them. BTW. when time traveling, you alter history, no mather what, just being present in the past alteres it, wich means you just created an new series of parallel universes. Thus you can never return to your own world only to a new future you created. In this way however it might be possible that the time traveler is never born, but still, because he is born in another universe, this doesn't matter.

2004-03-09 13:03:57+00:00 - Re: New 5.18-5.19 information - ("R. Watson" <shanovia@earthlink.net>)


"Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message news:1faed770.0403082154.7c20cab@posting.google.com... > This information is all from the Spoilerslayer, > http://www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002914.php > > > > S > > > P > > > A > > > C > > > E > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Some interesting new information has surfaced, passed along by a very > good source. There is also other information that should tie into > 'Origin', but I'm not solid on what episode this will happen. > > ----- > > Origin (5.18) > > In the episode with Connor, it appears that the box will be broken and > everyone, including Connor will regain their full memories. However, > Connor will decide that he's happier with his fantasy-family, and > return to them. I've gotten secondary confirm from another source that > Connor will only be in this episode. > > Also, possibly happening in this episode (though it could be the end > of 'Underneath'), Illyria will bust Gunn out of the torture dimension. > > Episode 19 > > Turns out that this episode may not be as lighthearted as I originally > expected. It's appears that it's going to be another Illyria-centric > episode, where things start going very wrong for her. Fred's body > can't contain Illyria's energy, it's just too fragile. As the energy > corrupts her, Illyria starts shifting in and out of this dimension. > Angel goes after her, finding himself in a number of different > realities. In these realities, Illyria kills various members of 'Angel > Investigations' (not sure if it's someone other than Fred who dies, or > if she kills them after arriving in the dimensions). Wesley finds a > way to keep the energy from literally blowing Illyria apart, but in > doing so, he also brings more of Fred's personality to the forefront. > > ----- > > Just a guess, but I'm thinking that what Wesley does is merge the > various alternate reality versions of Fred and Fred/Illyria into one > being. Not only making the 'shell' more complete, but mixing more of > Fred into Illyria. In the post to follow this one, I think we'll see > some of the effects of this. > > > - - - - - - - - > > Clairel Thanks Clairel! All I like to add is that anything that keeps Connor to one episode is a blessing.

2004-03-09 16:40:19-08:00 - Re: New 5.18-5.19 information - (nospam@nospam.com)


On 2004-03-08 21:54:58 -0800, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) said: > This information is all from the Spoilerslayer, > http://www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002914.php > > > > S > > > P > > > A > > > C > > > E > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Some interesting new information has surfaced, passed along by a very > good source. There is also other information that should tie into > 'Origin', but I'm not solid on what episode this will happen. > > ----- > > Origin (5.18) > > In the episode with Connor, it appears that the box will be broken and > everyone, including Connor will regain their full memories. However, > Connor will decide that he's happier with his fantasy-family, and > return to them. I've gotten secondary confirm from another source that > Connor will only be in this episode. well that answers my other question. in a way I'm a bit disappointed that they would cover the whole thing in one episode. but then at the same time, I'm not really surprised that they wouldn't drag it out. and no duh, life with the fantasy family is a much happier one. then again, there is that "no more lies" rant from last season and the fact that Angel lied the biggest lie of all when he did that spell. that would make Connor not jump to join the group. however at the same time, IF there is a miracle and a sixth season happens, I won't be surprised if Connor changes his mind. He didn't walk away from the champion thing before so it would be easy to bring him back and say that he tried to ignore what he knew and what he can do but couldn't.

2004-03-11 02:50:43-06:00 - Re: New 5.18-5.19 information - (Thirsty Viking <john_doerter@hotmail.com>)


"Lord Usher" <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Xns94A761120CE53houseofusher@216.40.28.70... > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in > news:1faed770.0403082154.7c20cab@posting.google.com: > > > This information is all from the Spoilerslayer, > > http://www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002914.php > > > > > > > > S > > > > > > P > > > > > > A > > > > > > C > > > > > > E > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > Episode 19 > > > > Turns out that this episode may not be as lighthearted as I originally > > expected. It's appears that it's going to be another Illyria-centric > > episode, where things start going very wrong for her. Fred's body > > can't contain Illyria's energy, it's just too fragile. As the energy > > corrupts her, Illyria starts shifting in and out of this dimension. > > Angel goes after her, finding himself in a number of different > > realities. In these realities, Illyria kills various members of 'Angel > > Investigations' (not sure if it's someone other than Fred who dies, or > > if she kills them after arriving in the dimensions). Wesley finds a > > way to keep the energy from literally blowing Illyria apart, but in > > doing so, he also brings more of Fred's personality to the forefront. > > Oh, God. Can of worms. Big-ass can of worms... > > I don't know if I trust ME to completely think through and sensibly > depict the concept of "alternate realities," in the sense of "infinite, > ongoing parallel dimensions in which Our Heroes are living slightly > different lives." > > This is a *huge* new idea that, contrary to popular belief, was *not* > already established in "The Wish" and "Superstar" (because those were > *temporary* parallel realities imposed upon this reality), and it > introduces a whole boatload of questions and problems that I'm not sure > ME is prepared to deal with. For instance: > > 1. If there are infinite parallel realities based on everything that > could have happened in this reality, wouldn't there be an infinite > subset of realities in which Buffy failed to stop Glory from using the > Key to break down the multiverse? In which case, shouldn't the > multiverse be screwed regardless of whether Buffy stopped Glory in > *this* world? I like the infinite realities where buffy throws Dawn off the tower (or Dawn goes Doyle and throws herself before buffy stops her). Buffy then has a nice healthy relationship with Spike in season six :-> Eventually motivated by Love for Buffy, Spike still seeks out his Soul. This Probably happens soon after Riley's Visit when spike see's how much buffy needs a true partner. Without the resurection spell Willow never goes into magic crack mode, Tara never leaves her... the evil trio get taken down in mid season without loss of life because Willow isn't distracted. And the SIT's never get slaughtered because Buffy Resurection doesn't screw up the Slayer progression. Best Result of ALL .... NO KENEDY :-) In the infinite multiverse, there is at least one world where the right choices are made. And if there is one, then there are an infinate number of variations of it. > 2. If there are an infinite number of universes out there that are just > slightly different from this one, why haven't Our Heroes or their > enemies ever considered traveling to one of them to a) "resurrect" a > comrade who's dead in this world, b) retrieve a powerful item that's > been destroyed in this reality, or c) conquer a less well-protected > Earth, if it's too hard to take over this one? If they exist, doesn't mean it's easy to get there... and besides that would then damage the other reality.... not to mention the constant reality raiding that would take place.... And you thought the Vikings of the middle ages were bad? > 3. If there are an infinite number of parallel Earths, doesn't that mean > there are also infinite versions of every hell dimension, too -- one for > each permutation of Earth? Doesn't that then make this kind of > interdimensional travel different from the kind Our Heroes usually do? > They're not just traveling to a parallel universe; they're traveling to > a parallel *multiverse* containing a different version of every world > they've ever traveled to before. Or the Hell Dimensions are just Earth Variants Gone Horribly Astray. > Ugh. I'm getting a headache just trying to consider all the implications > of this revelation. Seems like an awfully big thing to dump on the > mythos this late in the game. > I don't know, seems like fun.

2004-03-11 02:57:07-06:00 - Re: New 5.18-5.19 information - (Thirsty Viking <john_doerter@hotmail.com>)


"Kurimasta" <kurimasta@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c0670ee2.0403091252.ca6605f@posting.google.com... > Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94A761120CE53houseofusher@216.40.28.70>... > > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in > > news:1faed770.0403082154.7c20cab@posting.google.com: > > > > > This information is all from the Spoilerslayer, > > > http://www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002914.php > > > > > > -= Blaat =- > > > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > BTW. when time traveling, you alter history, no mather what, just > being present in the past alteres it, wich means you just created an > new series of parallel universes. Thus you can never return to your > own world only to a new future you created. In this way however it > might be possible that the time traveler is never born, but still, > because he is born in another universe, this doesn't matter. one possibility... OR Not unless the time traveler was always there... this of course then casts serious doubt on the concept of free will. Time travel then doesn't change anything because it already happened. This making it impossible to kill your grandfather before he and your grandmother concieve your Father.

2004-03-11 03:22:15-06:00 - Re: New 5.18-5.19 information - (Thirsty Viking <john_doerter@hotmail.com>)


"Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message news:1faed770.0403082154.7c20cab@posting.google.com... > This information is all from the Spoilerslayer, > http://www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002914.php > > > > S > > > P > > > A > > > C > > > E > > > Interesting, but I'm betting we only get Dawn and a buffy Tease... that is fine with me, I always suspected this option would occur if SMG remained obstinate about returning. IIRC I even posted a FanWank ending where Shanshuued Angel went to the Door and Dawn invited him in, and we never see SMG. That was the Spike the chauffer variant driving away saying "I finally gave the $%^&* what she deserves"

2004-03-11 10:49:08-08:00 - Re: New 5.18-5.19 information - (himiko@animail.net)


<nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<404e6311$0$34485$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>... > On 2004-03-08 21:54:58 -0800, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) said: > > > This information is all from the Spoilerslayer, > > http://www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002914.php > > > > > > > > S > > > > > > P > > > > > > A > > > > > > C > > > > > > E > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Some interesting new information has surfaced, passed along by a very > > good source. There is also other information that should tie into > > 'Origin', but I'm not solid on what episode this will happen. > > > > ----- > > > > and no duh, life with the fantasy family is a much happier one. then > again, there is that "no more lies" rant from last season and the fact > that Angel lied the biggest lie of all when he did that spell. that > would make Connor not jump to join the group. > > however at the same time, IF there is a miracle and a sixth season > happens, I won't be surprised if Connor changes his mind. He didn't > walk away from the champion thing before so it would be easy to bring > him back and say that he tried to ignore what he knew and what he can > do but couldn't. I doubt that. My suspicion is that Connor's decision will involve a bit more than just "I'm going back to my happy family now; I'll call you now and then." Most likely, going back to that happy family will involve accepting the biggest lie of all. To go back, Connor must agree to be mind-wiped again. He might also have to agree to living in an alternate dimension that may disappear when Angel returns to the old reality which includes his friends all still alive...'ceptin' Fred presumably. It will be nasty one way or the other. himiko