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2003-10-10 22:13:26-07:00 - ME = ? - (alderotes <alderotes.nospam@ebot.net>)


I see the initials ME used frequently in messages referring to a producer? Writer? Who is this? Thanks.

2003-10-11 01:27:47-04:00 - Re: ME = ? - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <ZjMhb.20897$Rd4.17238@fed1read07>, "alderotes" <alderotes.nospam@ebot.net> wrote: > I see the initials ME used frequently in messages referring to a producer? > Writer? Who is this? ME = Mutant Enemy AI = Angel Investigations COW = Council of Watchers MOO = Mothers Opposed to the Occult MOW = Monster of the week Spuffy = A mistake (Spike/Buffy relationship) SIT = Slayer-in-Training BB = Big Bad FE = First Evil PTB = Powers that Be -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let the Darwin Fishes swim! www.darwin-fish.com/fish.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-10-11 06:00:03+00:00 - Re: ME = ? - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


>"alderotes" alderotes.nospam@ebot.net > >I see the initials ME used frequently in messages referring to a producer? >Writer? Who is this? Read the FAQ. It's posted almost weekly. >Thanks. You're welcome. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-11 09:50:12-04:00 - Re: ME = ? - (NickKnight <NickKnightonFKNOSPAM@hotmail.com>)


On "alderotes" <alderotes.nospam@ebot.net> wrote: >I see the initials ME used frequently in messages referring to a producer? >Writer? Who is this? > >Thanks. > ME=Mutant Enemy -------------------------------------------- "It took us 15 years to McGyver this thing." -------------------------Carter on Stargate To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

2003-10-11 09:52:18-04:00 - Re: ME = ? - (NickKnight <NickKnightonFKNOSPAM@hotmail.com>)


On sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote: >Read the FAQ. It's posted almost weekly. Where? I haven't seen it posted in months. -------------------------------------------- "It took us 15 years to McGyver this thing." -------------------------Carter on Stargate To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

2003-10-11 10:28:18-04:00 - Re: ME = ? - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <vm2govormdjed74tntsshlhfu2ku11749n@4ax.com>, NickKnight <NickKnightonFKNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote: > On sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote: > > >Read the FAQ. It's posted almost weekly. > Where? I haven't seen it posted in months. I didn't even know we had an FAQ. Where's it located or are you going to tell me to read the FAQ to find out? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snuggles, not Shuggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-10-11 12:36:09-04:00 - Re: ME = ? - (NickKnight <NickKnightonFKNOSPAM@hotmail.com>)


On sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote: >Just more examples of the decline in the newsgroup. > >William George Ferguson just posted the short FAQ four whole >days ago. If you had bothered to look at past posts, or used >google, you could easily have found out. > >He posted it on 10/7, 9/30, 9/24, etc. It didn't show up on this server..... -------------------------------------------- "It took us 15 years to McGyver this thing." -------------------------Carter on Stargate To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

2003-10-11 13:19:50-04:00 - Re: ME = ? - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <9acgov8opcu5pjeqf90d92mo7ab4j09tja@4ax.com>, NickKnight <NickKnightonFKNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote: > On sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote: > > >Just more examples of the decline in the newsgroup. > > > >William George Ferguson just posted the short FAQ four whole > >days ago. If you had bothered to look at past posts, or used > >google, you could easily have found out. > > > >He posted it on 10/7, 9/30, 9/24, etc. > It didn't show up on this server..... Charter cable does seem to carry any post by Ferguson. And I just did a keyword search for FAQ in the subject line of the last 41419 posts and found only 24 hits. Of those 24 most were from posters looking for the group's FAQ. Thus, if AOL and Charter (and who knows how many other ISPs) don't propagate the FAQ to the newsgroup I see no harm in answering newbies questions instead of being an ass. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snuggles, not Shuggie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-10-11 15:59:13+00:00 - Re: ME = ? - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


Snuggles postmaster@spamcop.net wrote: >In article <vm2govormdjed74tntsshlhfu2ku11749n@4ax.com>, > NickKnight <NickKnightonFKNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> On sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote: >> >> >Read the FAQ. It's posted almost weekly. > >> Where? I haven't seen it posted in months. > >I didn't even know we had an FAQ. Where's it located or are you going to >tell me to read the FAQ to find out? Just more examples of the decline in the newsgroup. William George Ferguson just posted the short FAQ four whole days ago. If you had bothered to look at past posts, or used google, you could easily have found out. He posted it on 10/7, 9/30, 9/24, etc. The idea of having a FAQ is to stop infotrolls. Whenever someone has a question like this, he should be told to read the FAQ. In the modern era, there is no reason to enter a newsgroup having not read the FAQ. But, oh well, children will play on the net, just like you two. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-12 03:23:34+00:00 - Re: ME = ? - (TNG1949 <meggleston2@stny.rr.com>)


ME = Mutant Enemy, Joss Whedon's production company -- "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway" "alderotes" <alderotes.nospam@ebot.net> wrote in message news:ZjMhb.20897$Rd4.17238@fed1read07... > I see the initials ME used frequently in messages referring to a producer? > Writer? Who is this? > > Thanks. > >

2003-10-12 14:42:52+00:00 - Re: ME = ? - (fallenfaith03@aol.com)


>Thus, if AOL and Charter (and who knows how many other ISPs) don't propagate the FAQ to the newsgroup I see no harm in answering newbies questions instead of being an ass.> My sentiments exactly . . . Just to add to that, a lot of the FAQS really aren't posted to AOL users, like myself. A select few are, but not frequently. Faith

2003-10-12 21:17:23-04:00 - Re: ME = ? - (NickKnight <NickKnightonFKNOSPAM@hotmail.com>)


On sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote: >Except the two clueless dolts who acted like they've never seen a >FAQ posted here, I've been very polite. I don't have AOL and have been suscribed to this group for a while now. I've only seen the FAQ posted on very rare occassions. -------------------------------------------- "It took us 15 years to McGyver this thing." -------------------------Carter on Stargate To send me e-mail exorcise NO Spam from my e-mail address. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

2003-10-12 21:41:22-04:00 - Re: ME = ? - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <20031012194748.19539.00000192@mb-m07.aol.com>, sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote: > fallenfaith03@aol.com (FallenFaith03) wrote: > > >>Thus, if AOL and Charter (and who knows how many other ISPs) don't > >>propagate > >the FAQ to the newsgroup I see no harm in > >answering newbies questions instead of being an ass.> > > > Except no rational person could claim I was being unreasonable > to the original poster. > > "Read the FAQ. It's posted almost weekly. > > >Thanks. > > You're welcome." > > > Except the two clueless dolts who acted like they've never seen a > FAQ posted here, I've been very polite. > Hardly polite or helpful, more like abrupt and rude. Instead of simply blowing off newbies by telling them to read the FAQ you could attempt to do some community building by answering their questions AND telling them where the FAQ is hosted, http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ra_forti/angelfaq. Regardless of what you might think the FAQ does not show up regularly, for whatever reasons, and asking a newbie to wait a week or a month or never to find out the answer to a question that you could have answered in a seond is not being "very polite". -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let the Darwin Fishes swim! www.darwin-fish.com/fish.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-10-12 23:47:48+00:00 - Re: ME = ? - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


fallenfaith03@aol.com (FallenFaith03) wrote: >>Thus, if AOL and Charter (and who knows how many other ISPs) don't propagate >the FAQ to the newsgroup I see no harm in >answering newbies questions instead of being an ass.> Except no rational person could claim I was being unreasonable to the original poster. "Read the FAQ. It's posted almost weekly. >Thanks. You're welcome." Except the two clueless dolts who acted like they've never seen a FAQ posted here, I've been very polite. >My sentiments exactly . . . Just to add to that, a lot of the FAQS really >aren't posted to AOL users, like myself. Guy, I use AOL. I read the short FAQ on this newsgroup. The short one isn't 500 lines or more. It's why WGF does it, to make this newsgroup as easy as possible. >A select few are, but not >frequently. Then you use Google to read the FAQ. Not reading the FAQ before first posting into a newsgroup is laziness. BTW, the first thing AOL recommends, under Newsgroup Nettiquette, is : "Read the FAQ Find and read the newsgroup's FAQ, or list of Frequently Asked Questions and other important and useful information. It can answer questions you didn't even know you had, and it's the quickest way to learn a newsgroup." Guessing you've never bother to read AOL's recommendations before you got on the newsgroups. Kinda lame, you know. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-13 01:40:12+00:00 - Re: ME = ? - (fallenfaith03@aol.com)


>Except the two clueless dolts who acted like they've never seen a FAQ posted here, I've been very polite.> I'm quite curious what you're definition of "polite" is if I merely remarked that sometimes the FAQ doesn't show up properly. >Guy, I use AOL. I read the short FAQ on this newsgroup. The short one isn't 500 lines or more. It's why WGF does it, to make this newsgroup as easy as possible.> Yes, the group is easy to navigate, and it's great that it shows up for you. For some of us, however, it doesn't. Since you have AOL yourself I figured you'd be aware that it's incredibly unreliable. >Then you use Google to read the FAQ. Not reading the FAQ before first posting into a newsgroup is laziness. Guessing you've never bother to read AOL's recommendations before you got on the newsgroups. Kinda lame, you know.> Well you get some credit for being awfully good at assuming things. I've read the FAQ, thank you. The original poster may not of been aware that you can Google it, anyway. We don't know anything about the person who originally asked, so for all we know they're unfamiliar with the internet, in which case I don't believe some common courtesy is too much to ask for. Faith

2003-10-13 02:54:10+00:00 - Re: ME = ? - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


Darwin Fish a@a.edu wrote: >In article <20031012194748.19539.00000192@mb-m07.aol.com>, > sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote: > >> fallenfaith03@aol.com (FallenFaith03) wrote: >> >> >>Thus, if AOL and Charter (and who knows how many other ISPs) don't >> >>propagate Again, am on AOL and the FAQ propagates. >> >the FAQ to the newsgroup I see no harm in >> >answering newbies questions instead of being an ass.> Then why bother with a FAQ? Sigh. >> Except no rational person could claim I was being unreasonable >> to the original poster. >> >> "Read the FAQ. It's posted almost weekly. >> >> >Thanks. >> >> You're welcome." >> >> >> Except the two clueless dolts who acted like they've never seen a >> FAQ posted here, I've been very polite. >> > >Hardly polite or helpful, more like abrupt and rude. Again, where was I rude in my original response? Abrupt? Perhaps. More like direct. It's a FAQ question. Read the FAQ. QED. Instead of simply >blowing off newbies by telling them to read the FAQ you could attempt to >do some community building by answering their questions AND telling them >where the FAQ is hosted, http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ra_forti/angelfaq. First, we had a community here. It's pretty much on life supports. Hell, Cordy's more alive. Almost half the people WGF mentions giving thanks to don't post here much or at all anymore. Use to have over a dozen excellent to good review posts each week of a new episode. Now, three good to fair. Use to have only one or two posters in my killfile. Now I'm up to over eight and counting. And the two I regularly killfiled, Tim and Apiro, are still free from it. Second, it isn't a duty to provide a link when the thing gets posted every week or so. The original poster could just have waited or looked back. Most newsreaders let you go back over a week in previous posts, let alone the availability of Google to find stuff. If the poster had trouble, he could ask. >Regardless of what you might think the FAQ does not show up regularly, >for whatever reasons, and asking a newbie to wait a week or a month or >never to find out the answer to a question that you could have answered >in a seond is not being "very polite". Guy, the FAQ was just posted today, the long one. The short FAQ was posted four days previous. There isn't a problem with obtaining the information from the FAQ for the minimally experienced user. And if that had been the problem, the person can ask for more information in how to get the FAQ. It's actually amazing how many post have been made to a FAQ question. Infotrolls are well known, asking the same redundant questions over and over again, getting a dozen or more responses saying the same exact thing. That's why there is a FAQ, to stop those posts. The fact that I don't remember you telling this person to use the FAQ or how to get it casts my doubts on your intentions here, but other than showing yourself to be very wrong, I really could care less. Man, has this become a crappy newsgroup. Where are you HGH, Micky, Terry, David Hines, Shanna, Loey, etc.? Sigh. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-13 05:54:59+00:00 - Re: ME = ? - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: > > Where are you HGH, Micky, Terry, David Hines, Shanna, Loey, etc.? > > Sigh. Sarah, too. -- AE Jabbour "Now do you know what we've become?" "Enemies." "Oh no. Much worse: now we're soulmates." Darla and Lindsey, _Darla_

2003-10-14 00:03:08+00:00 - Re: ME = ? - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote: > SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: >> >> Where are you HGH, Micky, Terry, David Hines, Shanna, Loey, etc.? >> >> Sigh. > > Sarah, too. Here's some great netiquette, responding to my own post. But, I couldn't resist. I was reading some old threads from the newsgroup in S2, and came across something which just fit what you were saying. The thread was entitled "Re: Was Angel's "Sacrifice" in IWRY for Nothing? (Spoilers for Seasons 5 and 6)" and had been crossposted over from a.t.b-v-s. Anyways, at one point in the discussion, the posts were authored by (in this order): Lord Usher Mrs. Poet Micky DuPree Sarah Trombley SWeick H.G. Hettinger SWeick Mrs. Poet Micky DuPree SWeick Dark Magic SaintlyRaven Shanna -- AE Jabbour "Now do you know what we've become?" "Enemies." "Oh no. Much worse: now we're soulmates." Darla and Lindsey, _Darla_

2003-10-14 00:23:38-04:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (SDM <smeyer@mac.com>)


In article <20031013231140.10246.00000189@mb-m22.aol.com>, sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote: > AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net wrote: > > >I was reading some old threads from the newsgroup > >in S2, and came across something which just fit what you were saying. > > > >The thread was entitled "Re: Was Angel's "Sacrifice" in IWRY for Nothing? > >(Spoilers for Seasons 5 and 6)" and had been crossposted over from > >a.t.b-v-s. > > > >Anyways, at one point in the discussion, the posts were authored by > >(in this order): > > >Sarah Trombley > Last seen writing Smallville fanfic. > > >Shanna > > > Not sighted since late last season. > Last seen writing Firefly fanfic. > Anyone heard from Seattle Chief? > Not in at least a year. No recent updates to his reviews, either. > > Double sigh. > Indeed Steve

2003-10-14 03:11:40+00:00 - Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net wrote: >I was reading some old threads from the newsgroup >in S2, and came across something which just fit what you were saying. > >The thread was entitled "Re: Was Angel's "Sacrifice" in IWRY for Nothing? >(Spoilers for Seasons 5 and 6)" and had been crossposted over from >a.t.b-v-s. > >Anyways, at one point in the discussion, the posts were authored by >(in this order): > >Lord Usher Still here. Though sometimes I wonder if there's an imposter. :-) (Harmony not being staked disagreement.) >Mrs. Poet Roaz is gone for a little while only, I hope. >Micky DuPree Gone after Wesley became an idiot in kidnapping Connor. Final irritation after abandoning metaphoric writing. Went to West Wing where they write non-metaphoric better than ME can. Sorely missed. >Sarah Trombley Gone. Great rabblerouser, and a good mind. >SWeick Burned out totally. A bitter bitter man, best to be handled gently, or not at all. >H.G. Hettinger Well missed. Probably has better things to do than this NG. She was a stabling influence on this newsgroup. Or at least kept me reasonably stable. %^) >SWeick >Mrs. Poet >Micky DuPree >SWeick >Dark Magic Still around on occassion. >SaintlyRaven Not sure. >Shanna Not sighted since late last season. Ratings rarely reflect the quality of the show. It's usually the newsgroup responds and the quailty of those posts and posting that shows it. Depressing current state of affairs here. We can only hope that ME and Joss finally get their acts together. Though it may be too far gone for myself. Anyone heard from Seattle Chief? Hines I gather is a gradual student, TWATG reference, with a GF. As Cordy goes, so goes Terry. Loey, with those great Early Bird reviews, probably isn't doing them since BtVS is off the air. Sigh. Now I'm more depressed. And the killfile keeps growing. Double sigh. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-14 05:12:05+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: [snipped a bunch of stuff with which I agree 100%] > Depressing current state of affairs here. Yes, isn't it though? > We can only hope that ME and Joss finally get their acts together. > > Though it may be too far gone for myself. That's my feeling as well. Ratings mean squat. And I am not sure if I can ever trust ME enough again. Fool me once, and all that. > Anyone heard from Seattle Chief? Sadly, no. I talked with him briefly last season, when I was really bemoaning the lack of his reviews. I still go back and read many of them, and still find something new. He is unique, and I deeply wish he could return. He must be simply too busy, or maybe, like so many others, he has lost interest in the direction of the show altogether. > Hines I gather is a gradual student, TWATG reference, with > a GF. As Cordy goes, so goes Terry. Loey, with those great > Early Bird reviews, probably isn't doing them since BtVS is off > the air. > > Sigh. Now I'm more depressed. > > And the killfile keeps growing. > > Double sigh. > > > > Stephen Weick Actually, I almost never killfile people unless all they do is post trolling OT topics. I never even killfiled Tim, although, actually, most of his posts are on topic. But for me, instead of the killfile growing, it's the list of those for whose opinion I hold no regard what- soever. But, let's hope things will pick up. I'm an optimist, occassionally. -- AE Jabbour "Now do you know what we've become?" "Enemies." "Oh no. Much worse: now we're soulmates." Darla and Lindsey, _Darla_

2003-10-14 05:16:59+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


SDM smeyer@mac.com wrote: >In article <20031013231140.10246.00000189@mb-m22.aol.com>, > sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote: > >> AE Jabbour aej17DELETEME@comcast.net wrote: >> >> >I was reading some old threads from the newsgroup >> >in S2, and came across something which just fit what you were saying. >> > >> >The thread was entitled "Re: Was Angel's "Sacrifice" in IWRY for Nothing? >> >(Spoilers for Seasons 5 and 6)" and had been crossposted over from >> >a.t.b-v-s. >> > >> >Anyways, at one point in the discussion, the posts were authored by >> >(in this order): > >> >> >Sarah Trombley >> >Last seen writing Smallville fanfic. You misspelled "Lex Clark slash". HTH. >> >Shanna >> >> >> Not sighted since late last season. >> >Last seen writing Firefly fanfic. So is she going to help Joss with the movie script? :-) >> Anyone heard from Seattle Chief? >> >Not in at least a year. No recent updates to his reviews, either. It's been over a year now. I gather he left the country on business, but I would hope he'd have at least dropped a note. Damn solid analysis work there. Nothing comparable now. >> Double sigh. >> >Indeed Haven't heard a peep from Victoria P. either. Hard to be a minion with the leader not around. :-( If you want to get really depressed, I actually went back through WGF's Newsgroup stats, back when he still listed posters numbers of post, and looked at the 00-01 season: Buffy-Angel-20000924-20010526 27691 100.00% (probe count) 1521 5.49% Sarah Trombley 1458 5.27% DesertRoaz 1184 4.28% Tim Bruening 1151 4.16% Micky DuPree 784 2.83% Don Sample 780 2.82% H.G.Hettinger 529 1.91% Shanna 516 1.86% SWeick 421 1.52% AKnight001918593 396 1.43% Cindy 364 1.31% Terry McNeal 348 1.26% Ian J. Ball 315 1.14% z____z@my-deja.com 312 1.13% Tammy Stephanie Davis 299 1.08% William George Ferguson 289 1.04% Lord Usher 270 0.98% Darth Republican 240 0.87% ebailey140@my-deja.com 231 0.83% B. Richardson 225 0.81% KenM47 213 0.77% Carl Fink 210 0.76% LilyRei 206 0.74% Linda 198 0.72% Mark Nobles 198 0.72% BTR1701 198 0.72% SaintlyRaven 156 0.56% Tom Breton 156 0.56% Christopher Rickey 154 0.56% Shawn Hill 152 0.55% Chelsea Christenson 142 0.51% Norman Doering 140 0.51% George Avalos 138 0.50% Robert ASF. 134 0.48% Jerry McLaughlin 126 0.46% SDM 124 0.45% Mike Zeares 117 0.42% OfficialWeredragon 113 0.41% Timothy A. McDaniel 112 0.40% M. Scott Eiland 110 0.40% Sandy McDermin 105 0.38% vicpusateri 104 0.38% DannyboymcNY 104 0.38% SFryar 97 0.35% Allan Mac Donald 95 0.34% Tim Minear 93 0.34% <pjmcgurk@gate.net> 92 0.33% Jeremy Billones 88 0.32% Tach Deneva 85 0.31% TVFan87656 84 0.30% Corwin2 82 0.30% Fire3Sky 82 0.30% Daniel Solomon 81 0.29% Ken Arromdee 78 0.28% Jennifer 76 0.27% El Freakface del East Coast 75 0.27% akmorgan@icok.net 75 0.27% Cindy Moore 74 0.27% Lanshark 73 0.26% mK[mark] 72 0.26% SandJH 71 0.26% CHI91111 71 0.26% Riddler 67 0.24% Mac Breck 66 0.24% The Fish Girl 65 0.23% JamesCraine 65 0.23% Sean Daugherty 65 0.23% Dan Kimmel 63 0.23% Fiona 63 0.23% EBailey140 62 0.22% Noella 62 0.22% Mel Walker 61 0.22% Daniel C. Jensen 61 0.22% Loots 61 0.22% paradoxymoron 60 0.22% liv 59 0.21% SimeonSite 58 0.21% sbennie@dowco.com 58 0.21% B. K. Schoonover 58 0.21% yasminke@my-deja.com 57 0.21% bethany_weber@hotmail.com 55 0.20% Nicole 55 0.20% Estron 55 0.20% Gary Smith 54 0.20% Forge 54 0.20% Andy Walton 54 0.20% David Adrien Tanguay 52 0.19% The Philster 52 0.19% Brian Robinson 51 0.18% Florrie 51 0.18% RobGladwell@webtv.net 50 0.18% Peter Meilinger 50 0.18% BetNoir 50 0.18% EL4 49 0.18% Kathy Bruce 48 0.17% Carolyn Marie 48 0.17% Eric F. 47 0.17% chiefseattle@my-deja.com 46 0.17% Dennis M Pahl 46 0.17% WRENPK 45 0.16% Larry Caldwell 45 0.16% johndiem 44 0.16% poldy 43 0.16% RayneFire 43 0.16% Benjamin Grayland 43 0.16% Robert Huff 43 0.16% victoria p. 42 0.15% Ed Rutherford 40 0.14% thomas jorgensen 40 0.14% Laurie Cubbison 40 0.14% Raven 40 0.14% Frank Swarbrick 39 0.14% LRL94 39 0.14% sscrumb 38 0.14% AFPN318 38 0.14% Marie Braden 38 0.14% Jim Roberts-Miller 38 0.14% Mrs. Poet 37 0.13% Theresa 37 0.13% C. Barrans 36 0.13% BOOPSIE51 36 0.13% Anne Warfield 36 0.13% Ta' 36 0.13% Mark Jones 36 0.13% Marc Lombart 35 0.13% Allan Jenoff 35 0.13% Tara O. 35 0.13% Emanuel Brown 34 0.12% Maggie Morris 34 0.12% M 34 0.12% Dalton Spence 34 0.12% Daniel E. Damouth 33 0.12% Nirtom 33 0.12% ficlogic 33 0.12% Benjamin F. Elliott 33 0.12% Henry McDaniel 32 0.12% Taramisu 31 0.11% Jeri Jo Thomas 31 0.11% kyle 31 0.11% Joerg Plate 31 0.11% John Baker 31 0.11% Mathew R. Ignash 31 0.11% Captain Average 31 0.11% Will Tingle 31 0.11% Mark Brown 30 0.11% DoThompso 30 0.11% aslam1 30 0.11% Hunter 30 0.11% Fionn Cutting off at 30 to save space. I fear who now is in the top 10, but it's a drop in quality as well as probably a worse increase in quantity. More noise, less signal. Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh. >Steve Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-14 06:10:59-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031013231140.10246.00000189@mb-m22.aol.com>... > As Cordy goes, so goes Terry. That, and now knowing "Enemies" is the blueprint for Whedon's later work, (should have listened to Micky so very long ago), I'm not seeing any point in long, in-depth, comprehensive discussions of _Angel_ when next year you'll just find out this was all another "secret master plan" some other evil evil thing that needs killing cooked up. You know, if there is a next year. OTOH, _Miss Match_ still wasn't as good as _Joan of Arcadia_. Terry

2003-10-14 09:59:35-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (reldevik@usa.net)


> > Hines I gather is a gradual student, TWATG reference, with > > a GF. As Cordy goes, so goes Terry. Loey, with those great > > Early Bird reviews, probably isn't doing them since BtVS is off > > the air. --Loey is still doing her Early Bird Reviews of AtS episodes. You just have to go to her website to see them. For some reason she hasn't been posting them here. Clairel

2003-10-14 15:15:02-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (josie_h@yahoo.com)


{some bits snipped} > He is unique, and I deeply wish he could return. He must > be simply too busy, or maybe, like so many others, he has > lost interest in the direction of the show altogether. Here here - his reviews were what made me come back to Angel and this NG again and again > But for me, instead of the killfile growing, it's the > list of those for whose opinion I hold no regard what- > soever. Agreed - the level of intelligent well argued review and related opinion seems to have diminished on this NG generally - though on the upside there are a very few folks whose comment I now actively look for - rather than referring to the thread - and this saves time plus generally bears dividends from a thought provoking, insightful perspective. Thanks for opening this discussion - I still enjoy the series and will go on watching for now.... even if from Aus one is compelled to download or wait 8 months for the series to show up! J

2003-10-14 15:19:25+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031013231140.10246.00000189@mb-m22.aol.com>... > >> As Cordy goes, so goes Terry. > >That, and now knowing "Enemies" is the blueprint for Whedon's later >work, (should have listened to Micky so very long ago), Hey, she was calmer than some of us screaming like hell. Then again, she actually showed a decent way they could have done it without changing all that much. The rest of us just bitched about being lied to. I'm not seeing >any point in long, in-depth, comprehensive discussions of _Angel_ when >next year you'll just find out this was all another "secret master >plan" some other evil evil thing that needs killing cooked up. Well, at least Gunn being OOC is explained by his brain being scrambled by W&H. OTOH, why Wes had been replaced by a doorhandle... >You know, if there is a next year. Well, the ratings are up, the full season picked up, so the odds aren't as bad as they were. The quality has gone poorly so far, but it's still only two episodes. Soon it'll be 12 or so with the same lack of quality, but then I'm only almost as cynical as you. You'd have gone with the full 22 being crap. :-) >OTOH, _Miss Match_ still wasn't as good as _Joan of Arcadia_. Hey, CC is good, but raising the dead... So when does Joan get burned at the stake? Speaking of death, Jake 2.0 not looking like a survivor. Too bad, the couple episodes I've seen didn't suck. Unlike... Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-14 18:04:35-04:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (SDM <smeyer@mac.com>)


In article <20031014011659.13773.00000662@mb-m22.aol.com>, sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote: > > If you want to get really depressed, I actually went back through > WGF's Newsgroup stats, back when he still listed posters numbers > of post, and looked at the 00-01 > season: > [snip] Frightening to see that I was once in the top 35 or so, and how many people much more qualified than I posted less than I did. > > Cutting off at 30 to save space. > > I fear who now is in the top 10, but it's a drop in quality as > well as probably a worse increase in quantity. More noise, > less signal. > Fear and ye shall receive. Highly unscientific (read '10 minute') analysis of the last 6500 ata posts to hit my server, going back maybe 45 days. 4.6% 304 reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) 4.0% 260 colette_wedding@hotmail.com (Nirvana 1) 3.7% 240 himiko@animail.net (himiko) 2.8% 185 fylmfan@aol.comspam (Rose) 2.8% 181 snds15@cs.com (Snds15) 2.4% 160 sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) 2.2% 144 Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> 2.1% 135 BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> 1.8% 119 dxgarten@ignmail.com (Daniel Garten) 1.7% 113 Ken <kwicker_erase_this_part@ameritech.net> Note that this doesn't catch people posting under multiple names or even slight variations, (except for you, because I noticed you had .com and .commmmmmmmm both in the top 20, so I combined them.) Steve

2003-10-15 01:04:11-05:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com>)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in news:20031013231140.10246.00000189 @mb-m22.aol.com: >>Anyways, at one point in the discussion, the posts were authored by >>(in this order): >> >>Lord Usher > > > Still here. Though sometimes I wonder if there's an imposter. :-) Oh, just wait for episode 6. There are some spoilers for that episode that... Well, let's just say that if the writers don't handle a certain hugely important issue with careful forethought and *extreme* care, you'll see the return of Cranky Usher ere long. (I can weather a great many things, but ME sure as shit better not fuck with the Epiphany.) -- Lord Usher "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."

2003-10-15 04:58:39+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message news:20031014011659.13773.00000662@mb-m22.aol.com... > SDM smeyer@mac.com wrote: You're making me cry. And Rose changed her name in the middle. She's under Ms. Poet and DesertRoaz. > > Buffy-Angel-20000924-20010526 > 27691 100.00% (probe count) > 1521 5.49% Sarah Trombley > 1458 5.27% DesertRoaz > 1184 4.28% Tim Bruening > 1151 4.16% Micky DuPree > 784 2.83% Don Sample > 780 2.82% H.G.Hettinger > 529 1.91% Shanna > 516 1.86% SWeick > 421 1.52% AKnight001918593 > 396 1.43% Cindy > 364 1.31% Terry McNeal > 348 1.26% Ian J. Ball > 315 1.14% z____z@my-deja.com > 312 1.13% Tammy Stephanie Davis > 299 1.08% William George Ferguson > 289 1.04% Lord Usher > 270 0.98% Darth Republican > 240 0.87% ebailey140@my-deja.com > 231 0.83% B. Richardson > 225 0.81% KenM47 > 213 0.77% Carl Fink > 210 0.76% LilyRei > 206 0.74% Linda > 198 0.72% Mark Nobles > 198 0.72% BTR1701 > 198 0.72% SaintlyRaven > 156 0.56% Tom Breton > 156 0.56% Christopher Rickey > 154 0.56% Shawn Hill > 152 0.55% Chelsea Christenson > 142 0.51% Norman Doering > 140 0.51% George Avalos > 138 0.50% Robert ASF. > 134 0.48% Jerry McLaughlin > 126 0.46% SDM > 124 0.45% Mike Zeares > 117 0.42% OfficialWeredragon > 113 0.41% Timothy A. McDaniel > 112 0.40% M. Scott Eiland > 110 0.40% Sandy McDermin > 105 0.38% vicpusateri > 104 0.38% DannyboymcNY > 104 0.38% SFryar > 97 0.35% Allan Mac Donald > 95 0.34% Tim Minear > 93 0.34% <pjmcgurk@gate.net> > 92 0.33% Jeremy Billones > 88 0.32% Tach Deneva > 85 0.31% TVFan87656 > 84 0.30% Corwin2 > 82 0.30% Fire3Sky > 82 0.30% Daniel Solomon > 81 0.29% Ken Arromdee > 78 0.28% Jennifer > 76 0.27% El Freakface del East Coast > 75 0.27% akmorgan@icok.net > 75 0.27% Cindy Moore > 74 0.27% Lanshark > 73 0.26% mK[mark] > 72 0.26% SandJH > 71 0.26% CHI91111 > 71 0.26% Riddler > 67 0.24% Mac Breck > 66 0.24% The Fish Girl > 65 0.23% JamesCraine > 65 0.23% Sean Daugherty > 65 0.23% Dan Kimmel > 63 0.23% Fiona > 63 0.23% EBailey140 > 62 0.22% Noella > 62 0.22% Mel Walker > 61 0.22% Daniel C. Jensen > 61 0.22% Loots > 61 0.22% paradoxymoron > 60 0.22% liv > 59 0.21% SimeonSite > 58 0.21% sbennie@dowco.com > 58 0.21% B. K. Schoonover > 58 0.21% yasminke@my-deja.com > 57 0.21% bethany_weber@hotmail.com > 55 0.20% Nicole > 55 0.20% Estron > 55 0.20% Gary Smith > 54 0.20% Forge > 54 0.20% Andy Walton > 54 0.20% David Adrien Tanguay > 52 0.19% The Philster > 52 0.19% Brian Robinson > 51 0.18% Florrie > 51 0.18% RobGladwell@webtv.net > 50 0.18% Peter Meilinger > 50 0.18% BetNoir > 50 0.18% EL4 > 49 0.18% Kathy Bruce > 48 0.17% Carolyn Marie > 48 0.17% Eric F. > 47 0.17% chiefseattle@my-deja.com > 46 0.17% Dennis M Pahl > 46 0.17% WRENPK > 45 0.16% Larry Caldwell > 45 0.16% johndiem > 44 0.16% poldy > 43 0.16% RayneFire > 43 0.16% Benjamin Grayland > 43 0.16% Robert Huff > 43 0.16% victoria p. > 42 0.15% Ed Rutherford > 40 0.14% thomas jorgensen > 40 0.14% Laurie Cubbison > 40 0.14% Raven > 40 0.14% Frank Swarbrick > 39 0.14% LRL94 > 39 0.14% sscrumb > 38 0.14% AFPN318 > 38 0.14% Marie Braden > 38 0.14% Jim Roberts-Miller > 38 0.14% Mrs. Poet > 37 0.13% Theresa > 37 0.13% C. Barrans > 36 0.13% BOOPSIE51 > 36 0.13% Anne Warfield > 36 0.13% Ta' > 36 0.13% Mark Jones > 36 0.13% Marc Lombart > 35 0.13% Allan Jenoff > 35 0.13% Tara O. > 35 0.13% Emanuel Brown > 34 0.12% Maggie Morris > 34 0.12% M > 34 0.12% Dalton Spence > 34 0.12% Daniel E. Damouth > 33 0.12% Nirtom > 33 0.12% ficlogic > 33 0.12% Benjamin F. Elliott > 33 0.12% Henry McDaniel > 32 0.12% Taramisu > 31 0.11% Jeri Jo Thomas > 31 0.11% kyle > 31 0.11% Joerg Plate > 31 0.11% John Baker > 31 0.11% Mathew R. Ignash > 31 0.11% Captain Average > 31 0.11% Will Tingle > 31 0.11% Mark Brown > 30 0.11% DoThompso > 30 0.11% aslam1 > 30 0.11% Hunter > 30 0.11% Fionn > > Cutting off at 30 to save space. > > I fear who now is in the top 10, but it's a drop in quality as > well as probably a worse increase in quantity. More noise, > less signal. > > Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh. > Can I cry now? -- Best Regards, Linda The writers generally are better off when the humor comes from the characters instead of at their expense. SWeick, ATA

2003-10-15 04:59:59+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"SDM" <smeyer@mac.com> wrote in message news:smeyer-19CF57.00233714102003@news.east.cox.net... STEVE! You're still here! Numfar, do the dance of Joy! :-) -- Best Regards, Linda Lindsey - "How did you think this would end?" - The Trial

2003-10-15 06:18:32-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


The title of the ninth episode of _Joan of Arcadia_ follows. sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031014111925.02137.00001011@mb-m01.aol.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >That, and now knowing "Enemies" is the blueprint for Whedon's later > >work, (should have listened to Micky so very long ago), > > Hey, she was calmer than some of us screaming like hell. Micky was who Rudyard Kipling had in mind. He got the gender wrong, but everything else fits. > Then again, she actually showed a decent way they could > have done it without changing all that much. The rest of > us just bitched about being lied to. Yeah, but Micky's, like, smart and stuff. > Well, at least Gunn being OOC is explained by his brain > being scrambled by W&H. Nothing like organic character growth. No, really, Gunn has never exhibited anything like organic character growth. > OTOH, why Wes had been > replaced by a doorhandle... Obviously Denisof didn't seek Joss' permission before getting married. Look for his story to be over next season. You know, if there is a next season. > >You know, if there is a next year. > > Well, the ratings are up, the full season picked up, > so the odds aren't as bad as they were. Dumb it down, the ratings will come. But Boreanaz is sounding like he wants to be a movie star, so if _Angel_ goes on, it'll have to be all about Spike. Hmm... Anyway, _The O.C._ starts in a couple of weeks. It's crap too, so _Angel_ should finally have some real competition. > The quality has gone poorly so far, but it's still only two > episodes. It's two episodes where the struggle of a group of misfits to become a force for good has been replaced by the indulgences of a group of self-centered idiots who are settling for being slightly less evil than the other guy. Riveting stuff. > Soon it'll be 12 or so with the same lack of quality, > but then I'm only almost as cynical as you. > > You'd have gone with the full 22 being crap. :-) GIGO. As was season four, so shall be season five. > >OTOH, _Miss Match_ still wasn't as good as _Joan of Arcadia_. > > Hey, CC is good, but raising the dead... Very likely why she said no to appearing in _Angel_'s 100th episode. > So when does Joan get burned at the stake? Episode nine is called "St. Joan." Sounds foreboding. > Speaking of death, Jake 2.0 not looking like a survivor. > Too bad, the couple episodes I've seen didn't suck. No, and last week it was even good. Significantly the episode was also devoid of any romantic stuff. But UPN has already said they won't cancel J2 this season, probably because they have nothing to take its place more than any other reason. Terry

2003-10-15 09:13:04-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (William George Ferguson <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com>)


On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:58:39 GMT, "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote: >"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message >news:20031014011659.13773.00000662@mb-m22.aol.com... >> SDM smeyer@mac.com wrote: > >You're making me cry. > >And Rose changed her name in the middle. She's under Ms. Poet and >DesertRoaz. You know, this is the fun one for me on this list >> Buffy-Angel-20000924-20010526 [snip] >> 95 0.34% Tim Minear [snip] Of course that was for the entire 2nd season, and a chunk of it was fueled by his back-and-forth with Sarah, which, of course, culminated in "The Council of Trombley" in Pylea. >> I fear who now is in the top 10, but it's a drop in quality as >> well as probably a worse increase in quantity. More noise, >> less signal. >> >> Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh. Well, Clairel and Nimue are at the top, but the top 10 has an awful lot of familiar faces. Stephen Weick, Ken Arromdee, Dave Cheatham, KenM47... (note that Don S. never really dominated in this group like he did in atbvs) -- You've reached the Tittles. We can't come to the phone right now If you want to leave a message for Christine, Press 1 For Bentley, Press 2 Or to speak to, or worship, Master Tarfall, Underlord of Pain, Press 3

2003-10-15 14:09:36+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


Lord Usher lord_usher@hotmail.com wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in news:20031013231140.10246.00000189 >@mb-m22.aol.com: > >>>Anyways, at one point in the discussion, the posts were authored by >>>(in this order): >>> >>>Lord Usher >> >> >> Still here. Though sometimes I wonder if there's an imposter. :-) > >Oh, just wait for episode 6. There are some spoilers for that episode >that... Well, let's just say that if the writers don't handle a certain >hugely important issue with careful forethought and *extreme* care, you'll >see the return of Cranky Usher ere long. Is it wrong of me to root for ME to screw it up? :-) Or should I be happy that they tend to do that just on their own? >:-> >(I can weather a great many things, but ME sure as shit better not fuck >with the Epiphany.) Well, it seems like they're writing TM's viewpoint out of the series. Remember how Connor was supposedly killed in Home? Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-15 14:29:11+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >The title of the ninth episode of _Joan of Arcadia_ follows. > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031014111925.02137.00001011@mb-m01.aol.com>... > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >That, and now knowing "Enemies" is the blueprint for Whedon's later >> >work, (should have listened to Micky so very long ago), >> >> Hey, she was calmer than some of us screaming like hell. > >Micky was who Rudyard Kipling had in mind. He got the gender wrong, >but everything else fits. Yeah, but in the old days, "he" could be gender neutral when talking about all of mankind. Besides, wasn't the ending of that "...won't need to get a haircut." If that. :-) >> Well, at least Gunn being OOC is explained by his brain >> being scrambled by W&H. > >Nothing like organic character growth. No, really, Gunn has never >exhibited anything like organic character growth. I'm quite sure ME surgically removed any such growths. Cause if ME let things grow organically, you never know what might happen to the characters. I mean Wes might do something really really stupid and out of control. Hell, they might let one character grow so out of control that they'll fire the actress cause the arc got so screwed up (at least that's what they'll claim). Glad nothing like that happened with ME keeping things artificial. >> OTOH, why Wes had been >> replaced by a doorhandle... > >Obviously Denisof didn't seek Joss' permission before getting married. >Look for his story to be over next season. Other than a Daddy Dearist ep, looks like his story already is. But married to AH, not a bad consolation prize. >> >You know, if there is a next year. >> >> Well, the ratings are up, the full season picked up, >> so the odds aren't as bad as they were. > >Dumb it down, the ratings will come. But Boreanaz is sounding like he >wants to be a movie star, so if _Angel_ goes on, it'll have to be all >about Spike. > >Hmm... Really. >Anyway, _The O.C._ starts in a couple of weeks. It's crap too, so >_Angel_ should finally have some real competition. So that's what the C stands for! (No, not competition.) So does the O stand for Oh? >> The quality has gone poorly so far, but it's still only two >> episodes. > >It's two episodes where the struggle of a group of misfits to become a >force for good has been replaced by the indulgences of a group of >self-centered idiots who are settling for being slightly less evil >than the other guy. Riveting stuff. Well, it has some potential, but I don't see these guys writing it right now. Sort of like how the concepts of S4: a pod Cordy comes down to bring forth the conclusion of the prophecy about the Troi Clon in her childs birth. Sounds interesting doesn't it? And yet... >> Soon it'll be 12 or so with the same lack of quality, >> but then I'm only almost as cynical as you. >> >> You'd have gone with the full 22 being crap. :-) > >GIGO. As was season four, so shall be season five. They haven't shown me any more moves than they've had before. Guessing like S4 BtVS gave us S5 then S6 and S7, there isn't going to be a trend breaker. >> >OTOH, _Miss Match_ still wasn't as good as _Joan of Arcadia_. >> >> Hey, CC is good, but raising the dead... > >Very likely why she said no to appearing in _Angel_'s 100th episode. Let's see, they fired her cause the writers screwed up her character's arc, cause she got pregnant, cause they consider her a on set problem, cause she and Joss don't see eye to eye, cause they needed the money for Spike, cause... Not caring which one they choose, ME insulted the hell out of CC. >> Speaking of death, Jake 2.0 not looking like a survivor. >> Too bad, the couple episodes I've seen didn't suck. > >No, and last week it was even good. Significantly the episode was also >devoid of any romantic stuff. But UPN has already said they won't >cancel J2 this season, probably because they have nothing to take its >place more than any other reason. Good, then it has a chance to find an audience. Hope it does. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-15 18:08:57+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


William George Ferguson wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com wrote: >On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:58:39 GMT, "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> >wrote: > >>"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message >>news:20031014011659.13773.00000662@mb-m22.aol.com... >>> SDM smeyer@mac.com wrote: >> >>You're making me cry. >> >>And Rose changed her name in the middle. She's under Ms. Poet and >>DesertRoaz. > >You know, this is the fun one for me on this list > >>> Buffy-Angel-20000924-20010526 >[snip] >>> 95 0.34% Tim Minear >[snip] >Of course that was for the entire 2nd season, and a chunk of it was >fueled by his back-and-forth with Sarah, which, of course, culminated in >"The Council of Trombley" in Pylea. > >>> I fear who now is in the top 10, but it's a drop in quality as >>> well as probably a worse increase in quantity. More noise, >>> less signal. >>> >>> Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh. > >Well, Clairel and Nimue are at the top, And that's two killfiled after their idiocies on this newsgroup. but the top 10 has an awful lot >of familiar faces. Stephen Weick, > Ken Arromdee, Dave Cheatham, KenM47... And if you check the numbers of reviews done, you'd have nothing comparable to the past, WGF. Just look at the top threads. Quality is wanting too. I'd think actual number of posts are probably up. And the few of us still posting aren't a positive group, to say the least. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-15 21:08:05-07:00 - Re: ME = ? - (alderotes <alderotes.nospam@ebot.net>)


Many thanks!! "Darwin Fish" <a@a.edu> wrote in message news:a-6679EE.01274711102003@corp.supernews.com... > In article <ZjMhb.20897$Rd4.17238@fed1read07>, > "alderotes" <alderotes.nospam@ebot.net> wrote: > > > I see the initials ME used frequently in messages referring to a producer? > > Writer? Who is this? > > ME = Mutant Enemy > AI = Angel Investigations > COW = Council of Watchers > MOO = Mothers Opposed to the Occult > MOW = Monster of the week > Spuffy = A mistake (Spike/Buffy relationship) > SIT = Slayer-in-Training > BB = Big Bad > FE = First Evil > PTB = Powers that Be > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Let the Darwin Fishes swim! > www.darwin-fish.com/fish.html > -------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-10-16 11:22:44-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (kenm47@ix.netcom.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031015140857.29227.00001129@mb-m06.aol.com>... > William George Ferguson wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com wrote: > > >On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:58:39 GMT, "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> > >wrote: > > > >>"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message > >>news:20031014011659.13773.00000662@mb-m22.aol.com... > >>> SDM smeyer@mac.com wrote: > >> > >>You're making me cry. > >> > >>And Rose changed her name in the middle. She's under Ms. Poet and > >>DesertRoaz. > > > >You know, this is the fun one for me on this list > > > >>> Buffy-Angel-20000924-20010526 > [snip] > >>> 95 0.34% Tim Minear > >[snip] > >Of course that was for the entire 2nd season, and a chunk of it was > >fueled by his back-and-forth with Sarah, which, of course, culminated in > >"The Council of Trombley" in Pylea. > > > >>> I fear who now is in the top 10, but it's a drop in quality as > >>> well as probably a worse increase in quantity. More noise, > >>> less signal. > >>> > >>> Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh. > > > >Well, Clairel and Nimue are at the top, > > > And that's two killfiled after their idiocies on this newsgroup. > > > but the top 10 has an awful lot > >of familiar faces. Stephen Weick, > > Ken Arromdee, Dave Cheatham, KenM47... > > > And if you check the numbers of reviews done, you'd have nothing > comparable to the past, WGF. > > Just look at the top threads. > > Quality is wanting too. I'd think actual number of posts are > probably up. And the few of us still posting aren't a positive group, > to say the least. > > > > > > Stephen Weick > > Was that a shot? Or friendly repartee? Ken

2003-10-17 06:03:03+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message news:20031015140857.29227.00001129@mb-m06.aol.com... > William George Ferguson wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com wrote: > > >On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:58:39 GMT, "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> > >wrote: > > > >>"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message > >>news:20031014011659.13773.00000662@mb-m22.aol.com... > >>> SDM smeyer@mac.com wrote: > >> > >>You're making me cry. > >> > >>And Rose changed her name in the middle. She's under Ms. Poet and > >>DesertRoaz. > > > >You know, this is the fun one for me on this list > > > >>> Buffy-Angel-20000924-20010526 > >[snip] > >>> 95 0.34% Tim Minear > >[snip] > >Of course that was for the entire 2nd season, and a chunk of it was > >fueled by his back-and-forth with Sarah, which, of course, culminated in > >"The Council of Trombley" in Pylea. > > > >>> I fear who now is in the top 10, but it's a drop in quality as > >>> well as probably a worse increase in quantity. More noise, > >>> less signal. > >>> > >>> Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh. > > > >Well, Clairel and Nimue are at the top, > > > And that's two killfiled after their idiocies on this newsgroup. Some how Nimue keeps escaping from my killfile and I haven't killfiled Clairel yet although I've come close several times. Once in a while I do agree with her, just never about Spike. And I'm about ready to just leave the NG because as Stephen says - more posts less quality. -- Best regards, Linda Mmmmmm......Angel

2003-10-17 07:16:05+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Growltiger <growltiger@never.invalid>)


On 15 Oct 2003 14:29:11 GMT, SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: > > >> Anyway, _The O.C._ starts in a couple of weeks. It's crap too, so >> _Angel_ should finally have some real competition. > > > So that's what the C stands for! (No, not competition.) > > So does the O stand for Oh? > > O.C. == Orange County -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-10-17 12:48:45+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tsd@rygar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu)


In article <rCLjb.6205000$mA4.883439@news.easynews.com>, Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote: : :"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message :news:20031015140857.29227.00001129@mb-m06.aol.com... :> William George Ferguson wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com wrote: :> :> >On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:58:39 GMT, "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> :> >wrote: :> > :> >>"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message :> >>news:20031014011659.13773.00000662@mb-m22.aol.com... :> >>> SDM smeyer@mac.com wrote: :> >> :> >>You're making me cry. :> >> :> >>And Rose changed her name in the middle. She's under Ms. Poet and :> >>DesertRoaz. :> > :> >You know, this is the fun one for me on this list :> > :> >>> Buffy-Angel-20000924-20010526 :> >[snip] :> >>> 95 0.34% Tim Minear :> >[snip] :> >Of course that was for the entire 2nd season, and a chunk of it was :> >fueled by his back-and-forth with Sarah, which, of course, culminated in :> >"The Council of Trombley" in Pylea. :> > :> >>> I fear who now is in the top 10, but it's a drop in quality as :> >>> well as probably a worse increase in quantity. More noise, :> >>> less signal. :> >>> :> >>> Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh Sigh. :> > :> >Well, Clairel and Nimue are at the top, :> :> :> And that's two killfiled after their idiocies on this newsgroup. : :Some how Nimue keeps escaping from my killfile and I haven't killfiled :Clairel yet although I've come close several times. Once in a while I do :agree with her, just never about Spike. Exactly. Came close a few times, but so far I haven't pulled the trigger. :And I'm about ready to just leave the NG because as Stephen says - more :posts less quality. I'm not there yet, but I'm closer than I've ever been. Sad, really. --

2003-10-17 14:07:57+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


"Linda" lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com wrote: >"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message >news:20031015140857.29227.00001129@mb-m06.aol.com... >> William George Ferguson wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com wrote: > >> >Well, Clairel and Nimue are at the top, >> >> >> And that's two killfiled after their idiocies on this newsgroup. > >Some how Nimue keeps escaping from my killfile and I haven't killfiled >Clairel yet although I've come close several times. Nimue should be a no brainer, cause, well no brain. :-) Clairel, it's more the nonsense she keeps spouting off, such as everyone who doesn't know a second language is a rapist. If she says something interesting, someone will comment on it and I will see it quoted in their post. Amazingly, I've not killfiled a single person about a Spike posting. Steven Seagal, trolling off topic extensively, being an idiot, yep, but not one Spike supporter is killfiled for being a Spike supporter. OTOH, forge, of all people, is coming close to the killfile. Mainly cause of his previous contributions on the Buffy newsgroup he's not. But damn, stop with the Bush bashing troll and write something worth reading about Angel! Granted, having three lackluster episodes in a row kinda makes it hard, like for me to even bother with a review of Unleased. But I still hope that we will get something worth watching sometime soon, and then we might have some analysis worth fighting through the noise for. OK, so I'm delusion. Once in a while I do >agree with her, just never about Spike. > >And I'm about ready to just leave the NG because as Stephen says - more >posts less quality. Thus in my desperation, the killfile. With gharrus as the latest troll trapped in there. And Tim Bruening and Apiro are still free, cause at least they're on topic. Remember when they and I were the wildmen of the group? We look tame now. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-18 07:25:39-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (ksins5@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031015102911.17268.00000946@mb-m16.aol.com>... > > > >Obviously Denisof didn't seek Joss' permission before getting married. > >Look for his story to be over next season. > > > Other than a Daddy Dearist ep, looks like his story > already is. > > But married to AH, not a bad consolation prize. You know, at this point in the game, I'll want AD to get out of the dodge fast while "Angel" is still considered a hot show and get himself a good movie career. There's nothing worse than sticking around for a show that treats your character shabbily. Cath

2003-10-18 07:36:38+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message news:20031017100757.16270.00000951@mb-m19.aol.com... > "Linda" lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com wrote: > > >"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message > >news:20031015140857.29227.00001129@mb-m06.aol.com... > > >> William George Ferguson wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com wrote: > > > > >> >Well, Clairel and Nimue are at the top, > >> > >> > >> And that's two killfiled after their idiocies on this newsgroup. > > > >Some how Nimue keeps escaping from my killfile and I haven't killfiled > >Clairel yet although I've come close several times. > > > Nimue should be a no brainer, cause, well no brain. :-) > > Clairel, it's more the nonsense she keeps spouting off, such > as everyone who doesn't know a second language is a rapist. I killfiled that whole thread. > > If she says something interesting, someone will comment > on it and I will see it quoted in their post. > > Amazingly, I've not killfiled a single person about a Spike posting. > Steven Seagal, trolling off topic extensively, being an idiot, yep, > but not one Spike supporter is killfiled for being a Spike supporter. > > OTOH, forge, of all people, is coming close to the killfile. Mainly cause > of his previous contributions on the Buffy newsgroup he's not. But > damn, stop with the Bush bashing troll and write something worth > reading about Angel! Another thread killfiled or was it the same one? I lost track. I least I stayed away from bashing the lecher Clinton. Political threads are almost always killfiled immediately. That's not the reason I watch Angel. OB Angel - At least he likes Charlton Heston. > > Granted, having three lackluster episodes in a row kinda makes it > hard, like for me to even bother with a review of Unleased. But I > still hope that we will get something worth watching sometime soon, > and then we might have some analysis worth fighting through the > noise for. > > OK, so I'm delusion. I still read most of the five star poll posts. As for the three episodes - Hey, shirtless Angel! Okay, I'm shallow. Goes with delusion doesn't it? > > > Once in a while I do > >agree with her, just never about Spike. > > > >And I'm about ready to just leave the NG because as Stephen says - more > >posts less quality. > > > Thus in my desperation, the killfile. With gharrus as the latest troll > trapped in there. > > And Tim Bruening and Apiro are still free, cause at least they're > on topic. > > Remember when they and I were the wildmen of the group? > > We look tame now. Meow? -- Best regards, Linda Just to remind you - Angel's purpose will never leave. Not unless we all become angels, or he human. And even human his purpose is still there. There's not a lack of stories because you'll never run into the metaphor problems that BtVS has had. - Stephen Weick

2003-10-20 09:56:14-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031015102911.17268.00000946@mb-m16.aol.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031014111925.02137.00001011@mb-m01.aol.com>... > > > >> Hey, she was calmer than some of us screaming like hell. > > > >Micky was who Rudyard Kipling had in mind. He got the gender wrong, > >but everything else fits. > > Yeah, but in the old days, "he" could be gender > neutral when talking about all of mankind. > > Besides, wasn't the ending of that "...won't need to get a > haircut." No, different thing. The ending I had in mind was: "And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!" So not a lot of wiggle room there regarding gender. > Cause if ME let things grow organically, you never > know what might happen to the characters. I mean > Wes might do something really really stupid and out > of control. Hell, they might let one character grow > so out of control that they'll fire the actress cause the > arc got so screwed up (at least that's what they'll > claim). > > Glad nothing like that happened with ME keeping things > artificial. Every once and a while, the sweet smell of bitterness wafts through. ;) In defense of Joss though, yeah, I think the moment he had Cordy start rising "Up There," he totally screwed up her arc, so he's correct when he says he's a hack who prefers 'wouldn't it be cool if...' over solid story telling. But I still can't believe that no one in the story-break meeting for "Tomorrow" looked up and said, 'Well, okay, so Cordy rises "Up There." Then what?' > >Obviously Denisof didn't seek Joss' permission before getting married. > >Look for his story to be over next season. > > Other than a Daddy Dearist ep, looks like his story > already is. If what I've heard happens happens, then the Daddy Dearest episode will seal the deal. I just hope Shanna has given up watching the series. > But married to AH, not a bad consolation prize. And Denisof gets episodes eight and nine off to celebrate. Hey, wait a minute. Wasn't there another actor who got time off during the season? What ever happened to her? > >Anyway, _The O.C._ starts in a couple of weeks. It's crap too, so > >_Angel_ should finally have some real competition. > > So that's what the C stands for! (No, not competition.) > > So does the O stand for Oh? Orange, but Oh works even better. Though I hear Jane Espenson has written at least one episode for the series, so maybe it only sucks a little bit. > >> The quality has gone poorly so far, but it's still only two > >> episodes. > > > >It's two episodes where the struggle of a group of misfits to become a > >force for good has been replaced by the indulgences of a group of > >self-centered idiots who are settling for being slightly less evil > >than the other guy. Riveting stuff. > > Well, it has some potential, but I don't see these guys > writing it right now. Well, I know it seems pretty ridiculous to consider things like story integrity, consistent characterization, and adherence to the series' own rules of conduct after ME demonstrated last season (on BtVS and _Angel_) there is no depth to which they will not sink, but it really doesn't seem like there's anywhere to go with the current story that is consistent with the characters or the established way things are. So I'd say there's either another reset button coming, more retconning ala last season, or the entire nature of evil changes just to suit Angel. See, ME can even fuck up the elevator ride. Damn, such talent. But hey, Spike! That's dismissing the simple truth that, contrary to the fanwanking of the devout, there's no reason consistent with the characters as to why they're working for W&H in the first place. > Not caring which one they choose, ME insulted the hell > out of CC. And now Joss is claiming there's a pivotal role Cordelia for to play this season, thus setting Charisma up to take the fall for when the season ends up sucking as he tried to last season. What a guy. I'd ask why Joss would create a pivotal role for someone he fired in the first place, but whatever. Joss is a genius, right? > >No, and last week it was even good. Significantly the episode was also > >devoid of any romantic stuff. But UPN has already said they won't > >cancel J2 this season, probably because they have nothing to take its > >place more than any other reason. > > Good, then it has a chance to find an audience. > > Hope it does. It'd be nice, but when J2 works, it's too much like _Alias_ and _Alias_ is better. But if UPN did cancel it at the end of the season, at least Greenwalt would be available to help Espenson exec-produce _Charisma!_. Terry

2003-10-20 20:50:42+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: Again, as an Indians fan, my apologies for letting you guys select Grady Little as your manager. We should have said no. >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031015102911.17268.00000946@mb-m16.aol.com>... > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031014111925.02137.00001011@mb-m01.aol.com>... >> > >> >> Hey, she was calmer than some of us screaming like hell. >> > >> >Micky was who Rudyard Kipling had in mind. He got the gender wrong, >> >but everything else fits. >> >> Yeah, but in the old days, "he" could be gender >> neutral when talking about all of mankind. >> >> Besides, wasn't the ending of that "...won't need to get a >> haircut." > >No, different thing. I was making with the funny. "If you keep your head while all others are losing theirs, you'll be the only one needing a haircut." _The Flintstones_ >> Cause if ME let things grow organically, you never >> know what might happen to the characters. I mean >> Wes might do something really really stupid and out >> of control. Hell, they might let one character grow >> so out of control that they'll fire the actress cause the >> arc got so screwed up (at least that's what they'll >> claim). >> >> Glad nothing like that happened with ME keeping things >> artificial. > >Every once and a while, the sweet smell of bitterness wafts through. >;) Bitterness? Me? >In defense of Joss though, yeah, I think the moment he had Cordy start >rising "Up There," he totally screwed up her arc, so he's correct when >he says he's a hack who prefers 'wouldn't it be cool if...' over solid >story telling. Never argue with a Genius. >But I still can't believe that no one in the story-break meeting for >"Tomorrow" looked up and said, 'Well, okay, so Cordy rises "Up There." >Then what?' Well, that's up to that crack staff of writers to take care of while Joss is off making a Post Civil War Space Opera. >> >Obviously Denisof didn't seek Joss' permission before getting married. >> >Look for his story to be over next season. >> >> Other than a Daddy Dearist ep, looks like his story >> already is. > >If what I've heard happens happens, then the Daddy Dearest episode >will seal the deal. Well, Mommy Dearest is dead too. So does character assassination count as a killing too? > I just hope Shanna has given up watching the >series. I'm betting on yes. But hey, now Wes fits in with Gunn and Fred (SS), Angel (Reunion), and Harmony. >> But married to AH, not a bad consolation prize. > >And Denisof gets episodes eight and nine off to celebrate. Hey, wait a >minute. Wasn't there another actor who got time off during the season? Yeah. >What ever happened to her? :`-( >> >Anyway, _The O.C._ starts in a couple of weeks. It's crap too, so >> >_Angel_ should finally have some real competition. >> >> So that's what the C stands for! (No, not competition.) >> >> So does the O stand for Oh? > >Orange, but Oh works even better. Though I hear Jane Espenson has >written at least one episode for the series, so maybe it only sucks a >little bit. Well at least not suck that much, unless she does more ANM type writing. >> Well, it has some potential, but I don't see these guys >> writing it right now. > >Well, I know it seems pretty ridiculous to consider things like story >integrity, consistent characterization, and adherence to the series' >own rules of conduct after ME demonstrated last season (on BtVS and >_Angel_) there is no depth to which they will not sink, but it really >doesn't seem like there's anywhere to go with the current story that >is consistent with the characters or the established way things are. Sure. Some revolt and leave W&H, others are corrupt. It'd be difficult to write, but hey, it could be done. Sadly, they'll go more with the Harmony thing and just ignore those things you listed and keep them all internal to W&H. >So I'd say there's either another reset button coming, more retconning >ala last season, or the entire nature of evil changes just to suit >Angel. Possibly. Or that evil isn't as simple as before. But again, that takes more writing skills than I saw with Conviction. >But hey, Spike! Well, I'm rooting for Nekkid Harmony, but to each their own. >That's dismissing the simple truth that, contrary to the fanwanking of >the devout, there's no reason consistent with the characters as to why >they're working for W&H in the first place. Still thinking Greenwalt pulled that as a prank on Joss & the WB. And Joss didn't get it. I think TM might have though. Vengeance must be sweet in that manner. >> Not caring which one they choose, ME insulted the hell >> out of CC. > >And now Joss is claiming there's a pivotal role Cordelia for to play >this season, thus setting Charisma up to take the fall for when the >season ends up sucking as he tried to last season. What a guy. If anyone thinks that S4 sucked because of Charisma and not the poor excuse for executing the plot points, ie the writing, then they deserve to believe Joss' BS. And what you get with that. > I'd ask >why Joss would create a pivotal role for someone he fired in the first >place, but whatever. You and me both. Guess they've gotten more money available since SMG has held out for more. (Either that or she's seen the first few episodes. :-) The ratings are decent, so not needing her to "save" the series with her return. Thus I guess they'll see if they can do a Cordy arc and bring back some of her fans with those dollars. Kinda makes sense after all the "Where's Cordy" "I miss Cordy" post from those just now seeing S1-3 AtS on DVD or reruns. You know, like I mentioned would happen. >Joss is a genius, right? A legend in his own mind. >> >But UPN has already said they won't >> >cancel J2 this season, probably because they have nothing to take its >> >place more than any other reason. >> >> Good, then it has a chance to find an audience. >> >> Hope it does. > >But if UPN did cancel it at the end of the season, >at least Greenwalt would be available to help Espenson exec-produce >_Charisma!_. Possibly Mere too, after "Me Tarzan, You Kate Lockley Clone with Red Hair" is off the air. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-21 03:06:43+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message news:20031020165042.25496.00001232@mb-m05.aol.com... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > > Never argue with a Genius. > Ex-genius. The blinders are now off. > > > >> >Obviously Denisof didn't seek Joss' permission before getting married. > >> >Look for his story to be over next season. > >> > >> Other than a Daddy Dearist ep, looks like his story > >> already is. > > > >If what I've heard happens happens, then the Daddy Dearest episode > >will seal the deal. > > Well, Mommy Dearest is dead too. > > So does character assassination count as a killing too? > > > > I just hope Shanna has given up watching the > >series. > > > I'm betting on yes. I really miss her. > > But hey, now Wes fits in with Gunn and Fred (SS), Angel (Reunion), > and Harmony. > > > >> But married to AH, not a bad consolation prize. > > > >And Denisof gets episodes eight and nine off to celebrate. Hey, wait a > >minute. Wasn't there another actor who got time off during the season? > > > Yeah. > > > >What ever happened to her? > > > :`-( Nooooooooooo! AD is by far the best actor ATS has. He must stay, he must. I haven't read any spoilers but don't tell me he's leaving too. I just couldn't take it. > Well, I'm rooting for Nekkid Harmony, but to each their own. I'll bet at least one of the females on the show will be naked. Maybe all of them. Would that help? > > > >That's dismissing the simple truth that, contrary to the fanwanking of > >the devout, there's no reason consistent with the characters as to why > >they're working for W&H in the first place. > > > Still thinking Greenwalt pulled that as a prank on Joss & the WB. And > Joss didn't get it. I think TM might have though. > > Vengeance must be sweet in that manner. I thought that was TM's prank. Would one of you mind giving more depth here? > > > >Joss is a genius, right? > > > A legend in his own mind. Just not a god any more. > > > >But if UPN did cancel it at the end of the season, > >at least Greenwalt would be available to help Espenson exec-produce > >_Charisma!_. I thought now that Hannigan was offered a sitcom that maybe she and CC could do something together. I'm just saying. -- Best Regards, Linda I miss Kate Lockley.

2003-10-21 04:43:32+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


"Linda" lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com wrote: > >"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message >news:20031020165042.25496.00001232@mb-m05.aol.com... >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > >> >> >> Never argue with a Genius. >> > >Ex-genius. The blinders are now off. Joss never was a genius. Some real talent, sure. And he's the best technically as a director they have, which isn't saying all that much. >> > I just hope Shanna has given up watching the >> >series. >> >> >> I'm betting on yes. > >I really miss her. Anymore, it's like being in an old army platoon during a war. So many are missing that you're just numbed by them. >> But hey, now Wes fits in with Gunn and Fred (SS), Angel (Reunion), >> and Harmony. >> >> >> >> But married to AH, not a bad consolation prize. >> > >> >And Denisof gets episodes eight and nine off to celebrate. Hey, wait a >> >minute. Wasn't there another actor who got time off during the season? >> >> >> Yeah. >> >> >> >What ever happened to her? >> >> >> :`-( > >Nooooooooooo! AD is by far the best actor ATS has. He must stay, he must. For all I know, he is. The tear was for another not currently with the series actress. >I haven't read any spoilers but don't tell me he's leaving too. I just >couldn't take it. Well, he's marrying a wealthy woman, so maybe his gigolo self has to keep performing for the lady. :-) (Yeah, like that would be torture.) >> Well, I'm rooting for Nekkid Harmony, but to each their own. > >I'll bet at least one of the females on the show will be naked. Maybe all of >them. Would that help? It wouldn't hurt! :-) >> >That's dismissing the simple truth that, contrary to the fanwanking of >> >the devout, there's no reason consistent with the characters as to why >> >they're working for W&H in the first place. >> >> >> Still thinking Greenwalt pulled that as a prank on Joss & the WB. And >> Joss didn't get it. I think TM might have though. >> >> Vengeance must be sweet in that manner. > >I thought that was TM's prank. Would one of you mind giving more depth here? Well, I thought Greenwalt was in charge of the big picture items and TM was there to execute it. I could be wrong, but I thought that was in a Greenwalt interview in which he thought AtS could easily make it another three seasons. >> >But if UPN did cancel it at the end of the season, >> >at least Greenwalt would be available to help Espenson exec-produce >> >_Charisma!_. > >I thought now that Hannigan was offered a sitcom that maybe she and CC could >do something together. > >I'm just saying. Sure, always a possibility. Don't know the behind the scenes stuff, but sure. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-21 14:40:20+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Terry McNeal <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote: > sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031015102911.17268.00000946@mb-m16.aol.com>... > > But I still can't believe that no one in the story-break meeting for > "Tomorrow" looked up and said, 'Well, okay, so Cordy rises "Up There." > Then what?' This just goes perfectly with my "The writers simply don't give a damn anymore" theory. > If what I've heard happens happens, then the Daddy Dearest episode > will seal the deal. I just hope Shanna has given up watching the > series. Good god. I would love to see her comments. It's funny that people think that it's negative now. > Well, I know it seems pretty ridiculous to consider things like story > integrity, consistent characterization, and adherence to the series' > own rules of conduct after ME demonstrated last season (on BtVS and > _Angel_) there is no depth to which they will not sink, but it really > doesn't seem like there's anywhere to go with the current story that > is consistent with the characters or the established way things are. > So I'd say there's either another reset button coming, more retconning > ala last season, or the entire nature of evil changes just to suit > Angel. See, ME can even fuck up the elevator ride. Damn, such talent. > But hey, Spike! You think? Hey, I liked "Home" as an episode on its own, and in the way that it was at least something decent in what was otherwise a desert. But it didn't make a lot of sense, and this season is just proving to be icing on a pretty nasty cake. When "Home" aired, I said that it would be up to S5 to make it relevant and sensible. It hasn't. And I don't recognize these characters, which is the worst thing. Have the writers even seen S1 or S2? > That's dismissing the simple truth that, contrary to the fanwanking of > the devout, there's no reason consistent with the characters as to why > they're working for W&H in the first place. Yep. But hey, Spike. And bound, buxom girls getting hosed down. I think they are on to something. -- AE Jabbour "I mean, I may have ripped off Vertigo, The Shining, James Elroy, James M. Cain, Barton Fink, Rebel Without a Cause, Vertigo, Psycho, Kiss Me Deadly, Double Indemnity and The Hudsucker Proxy - but I'm certainly no plagiarist!" Tim Minear, alt.tv.angel, 10.05.2000

2003-10-21 14:46:13+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote: > > "SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message > news:20031020165042.25496.00001232@mb-m05.aol.com... >> Never argue with a Genius. >> > > Ex-genius. The blinders are now off. This might be the funniest thing I have read all year. I might have to usurp it for a sig. -- AE Jabbour "I mean, I may have ripped off Vertigo, The Shining, James Elroy, James M. Cain, Barton Fink, Rebel Without a Cause, Vertigo, Psycho, Kiss Me Deadly, Double Indemnity and The Hudsucker Proxy - but I'm certainly no plagiarist!" Tim Minear, alt.tv.angel, 10.05.2000

2003-10-21 15:27:32-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (igs622001@yahoo.com)


AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<bmg0j4$ja00s$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... > SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: > > [snipped a bunch of stuff with which I agree 100%] > > > > Depressing current state of affairs here. > > Yes, isn't it though? I think Lord Usher summed it up nicely when dealing with the train wreck that was BtVS seasons 6 and 7. I don't recall his exact words, but it was something along the lines of "if the writers don't give a damn about the series any more, why should we?" I may be misstating his position, but that's the gist of it. It's a fair point. I think most of the more intelligent reviewers probably got their start during the period with BtVS was worth thinking about. Why continue to make the effort when what ME was presenting on screen was barely worth watching, much less thinking about. I certainly don't claim to be among the ranks of intelligent commentators, but I usually tried to post something about each episode in the last couple of BtVS seasons. I can verify from my own experience that it very quickly became a rather depressing exercise.

2003-10-21 15:37:58-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (eallison@tiac.net)


AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<bmg0j4$ja00s$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... > SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: > > [snipped a bunch of stuff with which I agree 100%] > > > > Depressing current state of affairs here. > > Yes, isn't it though? > > > We can only hope that ME and Joss finally get their acts together. > > > > Though it may be too far gone for myself. > > That's my feeling as well. Ratings mean squat. And I am not > sure if I can ever trust ME enough again. Fool me once, and > all that. > > > Anyone heard from Seattle Chief? > > Sadly, no. I talked with him briefly last season, when I > was really bemoaning the lack of his reviews. I still go > back and read many of them, and still find something new. > > He is unique, and I deeply wish he could return. He must > be simply too busy, or maybe, like so many others, he has > lost interest in the direction of the show altogether. > > > Hines I gather is a gradual student, TWATG reference, with > > a GF. As Cordy goes, so goes Terry. Loey, with those great > > Early Bird reviews, probably isn't doing them since BtVS is off > > the air. > > > > Sigh. Now I'm more depressed. > > > > And the killfile keeps growing. > > > > Double sigh. > > > > > > > > Stephen Weick > > Actually, I almost never killfile people unless all > they do is post trolling OT topics. I never even > killfiled Tim, although, actually, most of his posts > are on topic. > > But for me, instead of the killfile growing, it's the > list of those for whose opinion I hold no regard what- > soever. I hope I haven't added to that. I've tried to keep from posting lately because, well, all I can seem to come up with are negatives, the problems, and not the "good stuff." No one needs 100% negativity all the time :) > > But, let's hope things will pick up. I'm an optimist, > occassionally. If nothing else, sweeps will liven things up -- whether for good or ill, though, I do not know. Take it and run. Earl Allison

2003-10-21 23:53:44-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (autumnlands@yahoo.com)


AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<bmg0j4$ja00s$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... > SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: > > [snipped a bunch of stuff with which I agree 100%] > > > > > Anyone heard from Seattle Chief? > > Sadly, no. I talked with him briefly last season, when I > was really bemoaning the lack of his reviews. I still go > back and read many of them, and still find something new. > > He is unique, and I deeply wish he could return. He must > be simply too busy, or maybe, like so many others, he has > lost interest in the direction of the show altogether. I'm very concerned that something unfortunate has happened to Chiefseattle. I last heard from him in March, at which time he was trying to get back to routine after a family tragedy. He told me that he planned to resume doing reviews, and then he just disappeared. It was very unlike him not to respond to my e-mails, and after a while, I got a reply from Yahoo that his account was full. Then the address was discontinued all together. I really have a bad feeling about this. I can tell you that he did not lose interest in the show, and often I find myself wondering what he would have said about some of the things that have happened. His reviews were absolutely wonderful, and I share your sentiment that he truly was a very unique and special person. I keep hoping that someone will know what happened to him. I miss him dearly.

2003-10-22 02:44:14+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"AE Jabbour" <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:bn3grl$sclda$2@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de... > Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote: > > > > "SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message > > news:20031020165042.25496.00001232@mb-m05.aol.com... > > >> Never argue with a Genius. > >> > > > > Ex-genius. The blinders are now off. > > This might be the funniest thing I have read all year. > > I might have to usurp it for a sig. Be my guest. -- Best regards, Linda Angel's purpose will never leave. Not unless we all become angels, or he human. And even human his purpose is still there. There's not a lack of stories because you'll never run into the metaphor problems that BtVS has had. - Stephen Weick

2003-10-22 02:53:47+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message news:20031021004332.02820.00000552@mb-m06.aol.com... > "Linda" lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com wrote: > >> > >> Never argue with a Genius. > >> > > > >Ex-genius. The blinders are now off. > > > Joss never was a genius. Some real talent, sure. And he's > the best technically as a director they have, which isn't saying all > that much. He's seem to lost that touch at dialogue as well. Didn't he used to be a script doctor? > > > >> > I just hope Shanna has given up watching the > >> >series. > >> > >> > >> I'm betting on yes. > > > >I really miss her. > > > Anymore, it's like being in an old army platoon during a war. > So many are missing that you're just numbed by them. And the *squealing fangirls of Spike* to quote someone. (Daniel I think). Numbed - yeah. > > > >> But hey, now Wes fits in with Gunn and Fred (SS), Angel (Reunion), > >> and Harmony. > >> > >> > >> >> But married to AH, not a bad consolation prize. > >> > > >> >And Denisof gets episodes eight and nine off to celebrate. Hey, wait a > >> >minute. Wasn't there another actor who got time off during the season? > >> > >> > >> Yeah. > >> > >> > >> >What ever happened to her? > >> > >> > >> :`-( > > > >Nooooooooooo! AD is by far the best actor ATS has. He must stay, he must. > > > For all I know, he is. The tear was for another not currently > with the series actress. I know but you *implied* that AD might go the same way. Hence my reaction. > > > >I haven't read any spoilers but don't tell me he's leaving too. I just > >couldn't take it. > > > Well, he's marrying a wealthy woman, so maybe his gigolo self > has to keep performing for the lady. :-) > > (Yeah, like that would be torture.) > > > >> Well, I'm rooting for Nekkid Harmony, but to each their own. > > > >I'll bet at least one of the females on the show will be naked. Maybe all of > >them. Would that help? > > > It wouldn't hurt! > > > :-) Shall I write to ME and tell them that SWeick wants more female flesh shown? > > > >> >That's dismissing the simple truth that, contrary to the fanwanking of > >> >the devout, there's no reason consistent with the characters as to why > >> >they're working for W&H in the first place. > >> > >> > >> Still thinking Greenwalt pulled that as a prank on Joss & the WB. And > >> Joss didn't get it. I think TM might have though. > >> > >> Vengeance must be sweet in that manner. > > > >I thought that was TM's prank. Would one of you mind giving more depth here? > > > Well, I thought Greenwalt was in charge of the big picture items and > TM was there to execute it. I could be wrong, but I thought that > was in a Greenwalt interview in which he thought AtS could easily > make it another three seasons. > Well they're appealing to to the lowest common denominator now so that's a definite maybe. (Cars, nekkidness, lighter, brighter, no arc, plot holes the size of planets, OOC, and forget the over 30 crowd or loyal fans who want continuity.) > > >> >But if UPN did cancel it at the end of the season, > >> >at least Greenwalt would be available to help Espenson exec-produce > >> >_Charisma!_. > > > >I thought now that Hannigan was offered a sitcom that maybe she and CC could > >do something together. > > > >I'm just saying. > > > Sure, always a possibility. Don't know the behind the scenes stuff, but > sure. :-) -- Best Regards, Linda Lindsey - "How did you think this would end?" - The Trial

2003-10-22 07:11:51+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


Mystical <autumnlands@yahoo.com> wrote: > I'm very concerned that something unfortunate has happened to > Chiefseattle. I last heard from him in March, at which time he was > trying to get back to routine after a family tragedy. He told me that > he planned to resume doing reviews, and then he just disappeared. It > was very unlike him not to respond to my e-mails, and after a while, I > got a reply from Yahoo that his account was full. Then the address was > discontinued all together. I really have a bad feeling about this. > > I can tell you that he did not lose interest in the show, and often I > find myself wondering what he would have said about some of the things > that have happened. His reviews were absolutely wonderful, and I share > your sentiment that he truly was a very unique and special person. I > keep hoping that someone will know what happened to him. I miss him > dearly. Oh dear. I had written him as well, and I expected him to resume his reviews. I hope he is well. Your post worries me greatly. -- AE Jabbour "I mean, I may have ripped off Vertigo, The Shining, James Elroy, James M. Cain, Barton Fink, Rebel Without a Cause, Vertigo, Psycho, Kiss Me Deadly, Double Indemnity and The Hudsucker Proxy - but I'm certainly no plagiarist!" Tim Minear, alt.tv.angel, 10.05.2000

2003-10-24 10:05:06-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


I may have fudged some attributions here. Sorry. sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031020165042.25496.00001232@mb-m05.aol.com>... > Again, as an Indians fan, my apologies for letting you guys > select Grady Little as your manager. We should have said > no. And also again, it matters not. If it hadn't been that, it would have been a different thing. Besides, the Sox had three more innings to try to score one run. They couldn't, so they don't deserve to be in the Series no matter who's managing. Though I'd bet by February, Little will be moving in next to Schiraldi, Buckner, and McNamara in the Red Sox Series Losers Protection Program. Even so, it's better in the long run for the Red Sox. I mean, what if they had won the ALCS and maybe a World Series? All they'd be then is just make them another baseball team. Where would the romance inherent in the Curse of the Bambino be if they won it all? Where would Bill Buckner, Calvin Schiraldi, Mookie Wilson, and Bucky Dent be if it were not for the Curse? From where would come the inspiration for millions to go on in the face of near-certain failure if the Sox were World Champions? No, the Red Sox owe more to their fans, indeed, to all of mankind, than just another trophy. The Red Sox, in failing to win it all, transcend baseball to become life itself. OTOH, just once... > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031015102911.17268.00000946@mb-m16.aol.com>... > > > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > >> > >No, different thing. > > > I was making with the funny. > > "If you keep your head while all others are losing theirs, you'll > be the only one needing a haircut." _The Flintstones_ Oh. Well, I have been away. > >Every once and a while, the sweet smell of bitterness wafts through. > >;) > > Bitterness? Me? Among many, many others. > >But I still can't believe that no one in the story-break meeting for > >"Tomorrow" looked up and said, 'Well, okay, so Cordy rises "Up There." > >Then what?' > > Well, that's up to that crack staff of writers to take care of while > Joss is off making a Post Civil War Space Opera. Yes, and didn't they all do a fine job of it. > So does character assassination count as a killing too? Meaning Joss loves lots of company? > > I just hope Shanna has given up watching the > >series. > > I'm betting on yes. Likely. > But hey, now Wes fits in with Gunn and Fred (SS), Angel (Reunion), > and Harmony. Hm, so that's what it takes to be one of Angel's gang? No wonder Cordy's story is over. > >Orange, but Oh works even better. Though I hear Jane Espenson has > >written at least one episode for the series, so maybe it only sucks a > >little bit. > > Well at least not suck that much, unless she does more ANM type > writing. Honestly, her first _Gilmore Girls_ episode was nothing to write home about either. They gave her one of those thankless transition episodes. I'm hoping for better later on. > >> Well, it has some potential, but I don't see these guys > >> writing it right now. > > > >Well, I know it seems pretty ridiculous to consider things like story > >integrity, consistent characterization, and adherence to the series' > >own rules of conduct after ME demonstrated last season (on BtVS and > >_Angel_) there is no depth to which they will not sink, but it really > >doesn't seem like there's anywhere to go with the current story that > >is consistent with the characters or the established way things are. > > Sure. Some revolt and leave W&H, others are corrupt. It'd be difficult > to write, but hey, it could be done. Yes, you could have people leave by the droves, except I guess for those with contractual obligations into death. And shouldn't Angel and company fall into that group if they're in charge? Hmm... There's a couple of other problems too. The first is less than two weeks after Chuckles cleaned house, W&H was up and running, so what freakin' difference does an Angel-induced exodus make? The second is "Reprise" was unequivocal in establishing W&H's role in the universe during the elevator ride. So is Angel going to change that, making all human beings into angels in the process, or is he just repeating the BeigeAngel with a nicer car? And tangentially, why is everyone else just going along with it? I can appreciate the one reviewer who claimed the biggest problem with _Angel_ now is without Cordelia, there is no one who can credibly say no to Angel, but surely Lorne, Fred, and Wesley can think for themselves? (That's assuming Gunn got mojo'd into it when he bonded with the panther.) > >But hey, Spike! > > Well, I'm rooting for Nekkid Harmony, but to each their own. That's coming too from what I hear. As has Roaz, apparently. Though I'm all for Sparmony; Spike is a joke anyway. > >That's dismissing the simple truth that, contrary to the fanwanking of > >the devout, there's no reason consistent with the characters as to why > >they're working for W&H in the first place. > > Still thinking Greenwalt pulled that as a prank on Joss & the WB. And > Joss didn't get it. I think TM might have though. > > Vengeance must be sweet in that manner. Or in this manner <http://www.charisma-carpenter.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=angel&Number=19438&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1>: "It is my understanding that there has been a script sent to CC's agent for Script approval. Her agents comment was "They think you are coming back" CC's comment "not unless they make me an offer I can't refuse." " Terry's comment: Make him pay for Donovan's college education. There's more to the post, but I just really like that part. > If anyone thinks that S4 sucked because of Charisma and not > the poor excuse for executing the plot points, ie the writing, > then they deserve to believe Joss' BS. And what you get with > that. Well, there are a lot of people who do think that. Odd. Last time I heard, Joss doesn't let actors decide the story direction for their characters. Anyway, I'm sure Joss and his minions are passively/aggressively trying to say had it not been for the pregnant lady screwing up their plan of wonder, there'd have been no need for the poor excuse for executing plot points. Ah, it seems like years ago the gem that was "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" was cobbled together in less than a week. You'd have thought with a month to gather their resources, ME could do better. Damn those actors who think they're entitled to a life! But I'm sure no matter what DEM/rest button/Bobby-in-the-shower ending is in store, it'll be greeted with awe and admiration from the devout. > Guess they've gotten more money available since SMG has > held out for more. (Either that or she's seen the first few episodes. :-) Or, you know, FPJ has defied Darwin and spawned anyway. I'd have to love the irony were that the case. > The ratings are decent, so not needing > her to "save" the series > with her return. Thus I guess they'll see if they can do a Cordy arc > and bring back some of her fans with those dollars. Maybe Levin would have made Joss bring CC back just for the ratings, but I don't think Joss would have on his own just for ratings. I mean, he'd be taking a chance at proving himself wrong. But if Joss can't get Buffy to come in and save Angel from himself, I guess Cordy'll have to do it. Of course, it makes a lot more sense that Cordy be the one to save Angel from himself anyway, so that works for Joss. > Kinda makes sense after all the "Where's Cordy" "I miss Cordy" > post from those just now seeing S1-3 AtS on DVD or reruns. > > You know, like I mentioned would happen. I didn't see for myself, but one of my on-line associates said she visited the WB's _Angel_ forum after the first episode aired and found many a 'WTF happened to Cordy? Why is Spike on the show?' post. Though probably not spelled correctly or anything. And using lots of exclamation points. > >But if UPN did cancel it at the end of the season, > >at least Greenwalt would be available to help Espenson exec-produce > >_Charisma!_. > > Possibly Mere too, after "Me Tarzan, You Kate Lockley Clone with > Red Hair" is off the air. Yeah? I thought _Tarzan_ was getting _Angel_-like ratings? I heard it is the WB's highest rated new show anyway. Terry

2003-10-24 16:41:01-07:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (chiefseattle04@yahoo.com)


autumnlands@yahoo.com (Mystical) wrote in message news:<9200c3a5.0310212253.54e7354@posting.google.com>... > AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<bmg0j4$ja00s$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... > > SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: > > > > [snipped a bunch of stuff with which I agree 100%] > > > > > > > > > > Anyone heard from Seattle Chief? > > > > Sadly, no. I talked with him briefly last season, when I > > was really bemoaning the lack of his reviews. I still go > > back and read many of them, and still find something new. > > > > He is unique, and I deeply wish he could return. He must > > be simply too busy, or maybe, like so many others, he has > > lost interest in the direction of the show altogether. > > I'm very concerned that something unfortunate has happened to > Chiefseattle. I last heard from him in March, at which time he was > trying to get back to routine after a family tragedy. He told me that > he planned to resume doing reviews, and then he just disappeared. It > was very unlike him not to respond to my e-mails, and after a while, I > got a reply from Yahoo that his account was full. Then the address was > discontinued all together. I really have a bad feeling about this. > > I can tell you that he did not lose interest in the show, and often I > find myself wondering what he would have said about some of the things > that have happened. His reviews were absolutely wonderful, and I share > your sentiment that he truly was a very unique and special person. I > keep hoping that someone will know what happened to him. I miss him > dearly. As you can see nothing sinister has happened :-) Towards the end of last year I was finding it very hard to fit my reviews in with my work schedule. Then in January, as some of you may know, my mother died very suddenly and unexpectedly. As a result I sort of lost motivation for the reviews. I made an attempt to re-start them but this was half-hearted and the Iraq war distracted me anyway. At about that time an opportunity came up to do some more work overseas and I took it. In the meantime my Yahoo account was discontinued and I lost all my contacts. I didn't realize that some people would be worried by my neglect and I am very sorry about that. Anyway I am back now. I am in the process of moving house at the moment. But I think I should be able to pick up the threads of the reviews soon. Of course the question is where, especially since my work schedule isn't getting any lighter. I have registered a new yahoo account so anyone who wants to e-mail can do so at chiefseattle04@yahoo.com.

2003-10-24 18:40:00+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031020165042.25496.00001232@mb-m05.aol.com>... > >> Again, as an Indians fan, my apologies for letting you guys >> select Grady Little as your manager. We should have said >> no. > >And also again, it matters not. If it hadn't been that, it would have >been a different thing. Probably. But at least you guys had the Pats a few years back. I was a child when a Cleveland team won a championship. >Even so, it's better in the long run for the Red Sox. I mean, what if >they had won the ALCS and maybe a World Series? ... No, the Red Sox owe more to their fans, indeed, to all of >mankind, than just another trophy. The Red Sox, in failing to win it >all, transcend baseball to become life itself. It's sucks to be a Red Sox fan. >OTOH, just once... > >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031015102911.17268.00000946@mb-m16.aol.com>... >> > >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >> >Every once and a while, the sweet smell of bitterness wafts through. >> >;) >> >> Bitterness? Me? > >Among many, many others. Hey, I don't go complaining about your smells wafting. Oh, you meant others bitterness. Well, yeah. >> >But I still can't believe that no one in the story-break meeting for >> >"Tomorrow" looked up and said, 'Well, okay, so Cordy rises "Up There." >> >Then what?' >> >> Well, that's up to that crack staff of writers to take care of while >> Joss is off making a Post Civil War Space Opera. > >Yes, and didn't they all do a fine job of it. Seeing that he's doing that again, though downgraded from a film to a mini-series from what I've heard so... >> So does character assassination count as a killing too? > >Meaning Joss loves lots of company? Ain't he something. Cause as he'll tell you, it's all about the characters. >> But hey, now Wes fits in with Gunn and Fred (SS), Angel (Reunion), >> and Harmony. > >Hm, so that's what it takes to be one of Angel's gang? No wonder >Cordy's story is over. Really. But Willow can come over. >> >> Well, it has some potential, but I don't see these guys >> >> writing it right now. >> > >> >Well, I know it seems pretty ridiculous to consider things like story >> >integrity, consistent characterization, and adherence to the series' >> >own rules of conduct after ME demonstrated last season (on BtVS and >> >_Angel_) there is no depth to which they will not sink, but it really >> >doesn't seem like there's anywhere to go with the current story that >> >is consistent with the characters or the established way things are. >> >> Sure. Some revolt and leave W&H, others are corrupt. It'd be difficult >> to write, but hey, it could be done. > >Yes, you could have people leave by the droves, except I guess for >those with contractual obligations into death. And shouldn't Angel and >company fall into that group if they're in charge? Hmm... Makes you think. >There's a couple of other problems too. The first is less than two >weeks after Chuckles cleaned house, W&H was up and running, so what >freakin' difference does an Angel-induced exodus make? It won't. It's the way of the world. W&H's way. The second is >"Reprise" was unequivocal in establishing W&H's role in the universe >during the elevator ride. So is Angel going to change that, making all >human beings into angels in the process, or is he just repeating the >BeigeAngel with a nicer car? No. With much nicer cars. And tangentially, why is everyone else >just going along with it? I can appreciate the one reviewer who >claimed the biggest problem with _Angel_ now is without Cordelia, >there is no one who can credibly say no to Angel, but surely Lorne, >Fred, and Wesley can think for themselves? Fred? Nope. Lorne? He's at home with W&H. Wes? His brain left when Lilah died. (That's assuming Gunn got >mojo'd into it when he bonded with the panther.) > >> >But hey, Spike! >> >> Well, I'm rooting for Nekkid Harmony, but to each their own. > >That's coming too from what I hear. Which makes sloshing through the show worth while. As has Roaz, apparently. Though >I'm all for Sparmony; Spike is a joke anyway. Makes me laugh. :-) >> >That's dismissing the simple truth that, contrary to the fanwanking of >> >the devout, there's no reason consistent with the characters as to why >> >they're working for W&H in the first place. >> >> Still thinking Greenwalt pulled that as a prank on Joss & the WB. And >> Joss didn't get it. I think TM might have though. >> >> Vengeance must be sweet in that manner. > >Or in this manner: > > "It is my understanding that there has been a script sent > to CC's agent for Script approval. Her agents comment was > "They think you are coming back" CC's comment "not unless > they make me an offer I can't refuse." " > >Terry's comment: Make him pay for Donovan's college education. Make them pay for both Hubby and Child, including all grad schooling. Look, a serious arc would be nice. Just to have her to finish her off wouldn't be worthwhile artistically or financially. >There's more to the post, but I just really like that part. Didn't catch that one over at Shal's site. Thanks. >> If anyone thinks that S4 sucked because of Charisma and not >> the poor excuse for executing the plot points, ie the writing, >> then they deserve to believe Joss' BS. And what you get with >> that. > >Well, there are a lot of people who do think that. Odd. Last time I >heard, Joss doesn't let actors decide the story direction for their >characters. Can't be sure, cause Joss lies to often to tell the truth from fiction. Besides they planned all along to have a MagicCrackAddictWillow arc instead of a DarkWillow arc all along. :-) Anyway, I'm sure Joss and his minions are >passively/aggressively trying to say had it not been for the pregnant >lady screwing up their plan of wonder, there'd have been no need for >the poor excuse for executing plot points. Which is true. They would have done a poor excuse for executing other plot points instead. It's not like S3 wasn't showing cracks. Ah, it seems like years ago >the gem that was "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" was cobbled >together in less than a week. You'd have thought with a month to >gather their resources, ME could do better. But that was back when you had a real TV producer on staff. Damn those actors who >think they're entitled to a life! But I'm sure no matter what DEM/rest >button/Bobby-in-the-shower ending is in store, it'll be greeted with >awe and admiration from the devout. Joss is God! (Still think that's an insult to an atheist.) >> Guess they've gotten more money available since SMG has >> held out for more. (Either that or she's seen the first few episodes. :-) > >Or, you know, FPJ has defied Darwin and spawned anyway. I'd have to >love the irony were that the case. As long as it means him spending plenty of time away from the movie screen, have as many kids as he wants! >> The ratings are decent, so not needing >> her to "save" the series >> with her return. Thus I guess they'll see if they can do a Cordy arc >> and bring back some of her fans with those dollars. > >Maybe Levin would have made Joss bring CC back just for the ratings, >but I don't think Joss would have on his own just for ratings. I mean, >he'd be taking a chance at proving himself wrong. Can't have that. But if Joss can't >get Buffy to come in and save Angel from himself, I guess Cordy'll >have to do it. Of course, it makes a lot more sense that Cordy be the >one to save Angel from himself anyway, so that works for Joss. It actually makes sense only from Cordy. Buffy has always been a bad thing for Angel. Or any other male in her life. >> Kinda makes sense after all the "Where's Cordy" "I miss Cordy" >> post from those just now seeing S1-3 AtS on DVD or reruns. >> >> You know, like I mentioned would happen. > >I didn't see for myself, but one of my on-line associates said she >visited the WB's _Angel_ forum after the first episode aired and found >many a 'WTF happened to Cordy? Why is Spike on the show?' post. Though >probably not spelled correctly or anything. And using lots of >exclamation points. Well, yeah, and that's probably their target audience. >> >But if UPN did cancel it at the end of the season, >> >at least Greenwalt would be available to help Espenson exec-produce >> >_Charisma!_. >> >> Possibly Mere too, after "Me Tarzan, You Kate Lockley Clone with >> Red Hair" is off the air. > >Yeah? I thought _Tarzan_ was getting _Angel_-like ratings? I heard it >is the WB's highest rated new show anyway. "Winner of the tallest midget award goes to..." Saw a couple episodes. If Lucy Lawless can't save it, not much can. But that just might be me. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-24 21:49:53+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tsd@zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu)


In article <20031024144000.25542.00000030@mb-m22.aol.com>, SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: : :tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: : :>sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message :>news:<20031020165042.25496.00001232@mb-m05.aol.com>... :> :>> Again, as an Indians fan, my apologies for letting you guys :>> select Grady Little as your manager. We should have said :>> no. :> :>And also again, it matters not. If it hadn't been that, it would have :>been a different thing. : : :Probably. But at least you guys had the Pats a few years back. : :I was a child when a Cleveland team won a championship. Guys, I got you all whipped. I'm a Lions fan. We haven't won a championship since two years before the birth of Moses (I'm only mildly exaggerating here....) :>Even so, it's better in the long run for the Red Sox. I mean, what if :>they had won the ALCS and maybe a World Series? ... No, the Red Sox owe more :to their fans, indeed, to all of :>mankind, than just another trophy. The Red Sox, in failing to win it :>all, transcend baseball to become life itself. : :It's sucks to be a Red Sox fan. As a Lions fan I feel your pain, believe me. --

2003-10-25 00:17:13+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (tsd@zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu)


In article <4e998bfa.0310241541.41ed59@posting.google.com>, Chiefseattle <chiefseattle04@yahoo.com> wrote: :autumnlands@yahoo.com (Mystical) wrote in message :news:<9200c3a5.0310212253.54e7354@posting.google.com>... :> AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net> wrote in message :news:<bmg0j4$ja00s$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... :> > SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: :> > :> > [snipped a bunch of stuff with which I agree 100%] :> > :> > :> :> > :> > > Anyone heard from Seattle Chief? :> > :> > Sadly, no. I talked with him briefly last season, when I :> > was really bemoaning the lack of his reviews. I still go :> > back and read many of them, and still find something new. :> > :> > He is unique, and I deeply wish he could return. He must :> > be simply too busy, or maybe, like so many others, he has :> > lost interest in the direction of the show altogether. :> :> I'm very concerned that something unfortunate has happened to :> Chiefseattle. I last heard from him in March, at which time he was :> trying to get back to routine after a family tragedy. He told me that :> he planned to resume doing reviews, and then he just disappeared. It :> was very unlike him not to respond to my e-mails, and after a while, I :> got a reply from Yahoo that his account was full. Then the address was :> discontinued all together. I really have a bad feeling about this. :> :> I can tell you that he did not lose interest in the show, and often I :> find myself wondering what he would have said about some of the things :> that have happened. His reviews were absolutely wonderful, and I share :> your sentiment that he truly was a very unique and special person. I :> keep hoping that someone will know what happened to him. I miss him :> dearly. : :As you can see nothing sinister has happened :-) : :Towards the end of last year I was finding it very hard to fit my :reviews in with my work schedule. Then in January, as some of you may :know, my mother died very suddenly and unexpectedly. As a result I :sort of lost motivation for the reviews. I made an attempt to :re-start them but this was half-hearted and the Iraq war distracted me :anyway. At about that time an opportunity came up to do some more :work overseas and I took it. : :In the meantime my Yahoo account was discontinued and I lost all my :contacts. : :I didn't realize that some people would be worried by my neglect and I :am very sorry about that. : :Anyway I am back now. I am in the process of moving house at the :moment. But I think I should be able to pick up the threads of the :reviews soon. Of course the question is where, especially since my :work schedule isn't getting any lighter. : :I have registered a new yahoo account so anyone who wants to e-mail :can do so at chiefseattle04@yahoo.com. Welcome Back! Sorry about the recent sadness in your life. Hope things are becoming more positive for you. And needless to say, I really look forward to reading your reviews again! --

2003-10-25 16:35:34+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"Tammy Stephanie Davis" <tsd@zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message news:dijmb.4073$H91.89511@news.itd.umich.edu... > In article <4e998bfa.0310241541.41ed59@posting.google.com>, > Chiefseattle <chiefseattle04@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Welcome Back! Sorry about the recent sadness in your life. Hope > things are becoming more positive for you. And needless to say, > I really look forward to reading your reviews again! As am I. Welcome Back! -- Best regards, Linda

2003-10-26 00:52:30+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (aej17DELETEME@comcast.net)


Chiefseattle <chiefseattle04@yahoo.com> wrote: > As you can see nothing sinister has happened :-) Thank goodness. > Anyway I am back now. I am in the process of moving house at the > moment. But I think I should be able to pick up the threads of the > reviews soon. Of course the question is where, especially since my > work schedule isn't getting any lighter. > > I have registered a new yahoo account so anyone who wants to e-mail > can do so at chiefseattle04@yahoo.com. We hope to hear from you soon, if you have the time. It is simply good to know that you are still with us. There were some of us who were worried, but the internet is a strange place that way: it happens far too often that a person disappears for completely understandable reason. It's good to have you back, in any capacity, nonetheless. -- AE Jabbour "I mean, I may have ripped off Vertigo, The Shining, James Elroy, James M. Cain, Barton Fink, Rebel Without a Cause, Vertigo, Psycho, Kiss Me Deadly, Double Indemnity and The Hudsucker Proxy - but I'm certainly no plagiarist!" Tim Minear, alt.tv.angel, 10.05.2000

2003-10-26 00:54:36+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (aej17DELETEME@comcast.net)


Tammy Stephanie Davis <tsd@zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote: > As a Lions fan I feel your pain, believe me. Oh good god, Tammy. Give up on them. Believe me, I have lived in the area my whole life, I have rooted for them my whole life, I have believed that they would get better my whole life. And what did I get for it? Barry. Well, granted Barry was something else, but sheesh. I feel your pain too. It's been a rough number of years. -- AE Jabbour "I mean, I may have ripped off Vertigo, The Shining, James Elroy, James M. Cain, Barton Fink, Rebel Without a Cause, Vertigo, Psycho, Kiss Me Deadly, Double Indemnity and The Hudsucker Proxy - but I'm certainly no plagiarist!" Tim Minear, alt.tv.angel, 10.05.2000

2003-10-27 08:37:39-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031024144000.25542.00000030@mb-m22.aol.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >And also again, it matters not. If it hadn't been that, it would have > >been a different thing. > > Probably. But at least you guys had the Pats a few years back. And they beat Miami in Miami, so bonus. But it's just not the same. > It's sucks to be a Red Sox fan. Oh, I don't know. At least our curse is cooler than some nonsense about a goat, and, you know, Charlie Sheen never wore a Red Sox uniform. There are some saving graces. > >> Well, that's up to that crack staff of writers to take care of while > >> Joss is off making a Post Civil War Space Opera. > > > >Yes, and didn't they all do a fine job of it. > > Seeing that he's doing that again, though downgraded from a > film to a mini-series from what I've heard so... > > Cause as he'll tell you, it's all about the characters. Characters? Oh, you mean Angel and Spike. > Really. But Willow can come over. Mrs. Denisof doesn't sound too anxious to swing on by. > >Yes, you could have people leave by the droves, except I guess for > >those with contractual obligations into death. And shouldn't Angel and > >company fall into that group if they're in charge? Hmm... > > Makes you think. Gotta put a stop that then. If anyone starts thinking about _Angel_, the absurdity will overwhelm them. > With much nicer cars. Ah. I had only heard about the Viper. > Look, a serious arc would be nice. Just to have her to finish her > off wouldn't be worthwhile artistically or financially. I think it was a dumb thing to do, but now that they've fired Charisma, ME's best bet is to leave Cordy alone. There's nothing they can do to fix how badly they screwed up Cordelia and _Angel_ with the crap that went on last season anyway. And since ME's one half-assed offering thus far confined Cordy to the "B" story of the episode, why bother at all unless Joss just wants some cover to add CC to Donald Sutherland and Amber Benson on the list of actors who don't get his genius? > Didn't catch that one over at Shal's site. Thanks. You're welcome. > >Or, you know, FPJ has defied Darwin and spawned anyway. I'd have to > >love the irony were that the case. > > As long as it means him spending plenty of time away from > the movie screen, have as many kids as he wants! Yes, 'cause what we need are a bunch of FPJJ's claiming to be actors. > But if Joss can't > >get Buffy to come in and save Angel from himself, I guess Cordy'll > >have to do it. Of course, it makes a lot more sense that Cordy be the > >one to save Angel from himself anyway, so that works for Joss. > > It actually makes sense only from Cordy. Buffy has always been > a bad thing for Angel. Or any other male in her life. PregnantBuffy should show up and announce her recent marriage to Xander. What? He already lost an eye, he may as well get stuck with Buffy. > >Yeah? I thought _Tarzan_ was getting _Angel_-like ratings? I heard it > >is the WB's highest rated new show anyway. > > "Winner of the tallest midget award goes to..." Something has to be. > Saw a couple episodes. If Lucy Lawless can't save it, not much > can. I haven't seen it, but then, I don't think I'm in the target audience. Terry

2003-10-27 18:13:20+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031024144000.25542.00000030@mb-m22.aol.com>... >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >And also again, it matters not. If it hadn't been that, it would have >> >been a different thing. >> >> Probably. But at least you guys had the Pats a few years back. > >And they beat Miami in Miami, so bonus. But it's just not the same. Guess you can just cry on all those banners flying above where the Celtics and Bruins play. >> It's sucks to be a Red Sox fan. > >Oh, I don't know. At least our curse is cooler than some nonsense >about a goat, and, you know, Charlie Sheen never wore a Red Sox >uniform. Yeah, but he did it in Milwaukee! See, not the same thing. > There are some saving graces. Like not bitching about the Detroit Lions sucking? >> Cause as he'll tell you, it's all about the characters. > >Characters? Oh, you mean Angel and Spike. Angel? Who's... oh him. You're right. Make that "...it's all about the character. Blondebear." >> Really. But Willow can come over. > >Mrs. Denisof doesn't sound too anxious to swing on by. But it's such a warm, friendly to families, kinda place. >> With much nicer cars. > >Ah. I had only heard about the Viper. Nope, showed a nice lineup of cars. Which had to be back at the dealerships after the test drives were over. >> Look, a serious arc would be nice. Just to have her to finish her >> off wouldn't be worthwhile artistically or financially. > >I think it was a dumb thing to do, but now that they've fired >Charisma, ME's best bet is to leave Cordy alone. I think that's been the plan. Problem is that there are problems with that gaping hole left by her not being there. There's nothing they >can do to fix how badly they screwed up Cordelia and _Angel_ with the >crap that went on last season anyway. Sure you can. Sure they won't. And since ME's one half-assed >offering thus far confined Cordy to the "B" story of the episode, why >bother at all unless Joss just wants some cover to add CC to Donald >Sutherland and Amber Benson on the list of actors who don't get his >genius? Well, most actors don't know Joss, so... Oh, you meant actors who have worked with Joss. Ah, I think there probably is more on that list than you think. Or he realizes. >> >Or, you know, FPJ has defied Darwin and spawned anyway. I'd have to >> >love the irony were that the case. >> >> As long as it means him spending plenty of time away from >> the movie screen, have as many kids as he wants! > >Yes, 'cause what we need are a bunch of FPJJ's claiming to be actors. Yeah, but by that time we'll both be senile so it won't matter. See, a brilliant plan. >> But if Joss can't >> >get Buffy to come in and save Angel from himself, I guess Cordy'll >> >have to do it. Of course, it makes a lot more sense that Cordy be the >> >one to save Angel from himself anyway, so that works for Joss. >> >> It actually makes sense only from Cordy. Buffy has always been >> a bad thing for Angel. Or any other male in her life. > >PregnantBuffy should show up and announce her recent marriage to >Xander. What? He already lost an eye, he may as well get stuck with >Buffy. I guess the Buffyverse is Calvinistic, except Xander gets his hell on earth. :-) Be careful what you wish for. >> >Yeah? I thought _Tarzan_ was getting _Angel_-like ratings? I heard it >> >is the WB's highest rated new show anyway. >> >> "Winner of the tallest midget award goes to..." > >I haven't seen it, but then, I don't think I'm in the target audience. Well, I could snip your attributes too, but then... Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-28 10:22:27-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


There's a spoiler in here about episode seven for anyone who cares. . . . . . . . . sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031027131320.12335.00000219@mb-m01.aol.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031024144000.25542.00000030@mb-m22.aol.com>... > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > >> > >> >And also again, it matters not. If it hadn't been that, it would have > >> >been a different thing. > >> > >> Probably. But at least you guys had the Pats a few years back. > > > >And they beat Miami in Miami, so bonus. But it's just not the same. > > Guess you can just cry on all those banners flying above > where the Celtics and Bruins play. The day I equate the Celtics and/or the Bruins with the Pats, let alone the hallowed Red Sox, has not yet come. 'Sides, the banners now hanging in the Fleet Center are a tad old and there's not much hope for any new ones in the immediate future. Good news for baseball though, Grady Little is available for another managing opportunity. > > There are some saving graces. > > Like not bitching about the Detroit Lions sucking? And Fenway Franks. > >> Cause as he'll tell you, it's all about the characters. > > > >Characters? Oh, you mean Angel and Spike. > > Angel? Who's... oh him. > > You're right. Make that "...it's all about the character. Blondebear." If there was any doubt, I understand the big Wesley story where daddy finally shows up after being hinted at for three seasons is the 'B' story of episode seven, taking a backseat to cyborg assassins who are after Spike and that other guy. Don't look, Shanna! > >> Really. But Willow can come over. > > > >Mrs. Denisof doesn't sound too anxious to swing on by. > > But it's such a warm, friendly to families, kinda place. Well, maybe Hannigan can do a guest spot on _Charisma!_. > >> With much nicer cars. > > > >Ah. I had only heard about the Viper. > > Nope, showed a nice lineup of cars. Which had to be back > at the dealerships after the test drives were over. Really? I hope they took advantage of GM's 24-hour test drive offer. > >> Look, a serious arc would be nice. Just to have her to finish her > >> off wouldn't be worthwhile artistically or financially. > > > >I think it was a dumb thing to do, but now that they've fired > >Charisma, ME's best bet is to leave Cordy alone. > > I think that's been the plan. Problem is that there are problems > with that gaping hole left by her not being there. Yeah? I am under the impression that they established in the opener the only one who cared Cordy was gone was Harmony. Anyway, the only way to fix those problems is for Joss to admit he was wrong. I don't like the odds against that happening. Besides, there's Harmony. And Spike! > There's nothing they > >can do to fix how badly they screwed up Cordelia and _Angel_ with the > >crap that went on last season anyway. > > Sure you can. No, Micky called this one too. They can either salvage Cordy by trashing _Angel_ or vice-versa, but they can't save both. Gee, I wonder which will be sacrificed? > Sure they won't. Since CC has taken the excellent 'Run, Charisma, run!' advice and there's no way Joss will admit he's wrong, no, they won't. Unless Whedon adopts the 'Eve is Cordelia' theory, I suppose. It's not like it's beneath him or anything. > Well, most actors don't know Joss, so... > > Oh, you meant actors who have worked with Joss. Ah, I think > there probably is more on that list than you think. Or he realizes. I was sticking with the list Joss provided. You know, just to maintain a workable number. > >Yes, 'cause what we need are a bunch of FPJJ's claiming to be actors. > > Yeah, but by that time we'll both be senile so it won't matter. > > See, a brilliant plan. Or it'll make us senile. Or just make us wish we were senile. > >PregnantBuffy should show up and announce her recent marriage to > >Xander. What? He already lost an eye, he may as well get stuck with > >Buffy. > > I guess the Buffyverse is Calvinistic, except Xander gets > his hell on earth. :-) > > Be careful what you wish for. Didn't think of that. Hmm, Angel more than deserves to spend his time in hell-on-earth too. Maybe he and Xander can work out some kind of time-sharing thing. I'm sure Buffy 'What about meeeeeeeeee!' Summers could keep'em both busy. > Well, I could snip your attributes too, but then... Yeah, I saw that thread. I guess no one has parsed out what Skip said. Just as well, I suppose. Terry

2003-10-29 01:43:33+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >There's a spoiler in here about episode seven for anyone who cares. > >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031027131320.12335.00000219@mb-m01.aol.com>... >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031024144000.25542.00000030@mb-m22.aol.com>... >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >> Guess you can just cry on all those banners flying above >> where the Celtics and Bruins play. > >The day I equate the Celtics and/or the Bruins with the Pats, let >alone the hallowed Red Sox, has not yet come. 'Sides, the banners now >hanging in the Fleet Center are a tad old and there's not much hope >for any new ones in the immediate future. Welcome to my world. >Good news for baseball though, Grady Little is available for another >managing opportunity. Yeah, but Hargrove or Charlie Manuel? Who's doing drugs, the management or the bored newspaper guys? >> > There are some saving graces. >> >> Like not bitching about the Detroit Lions sucking? > >And Fenway Franks. Not as good as Stadium Mustard. >> You're right. Make that "...it's all about the character. Blondebear." > >If there was any doubt, I understand the big Wesley story where daddy >finally shows up after being hinted at for three seasons is the 'B' >story of episode seven, taking a backseat to cyborg assassins who are >after Spike and that other guy. Don't look, Shanna! I'm guessing Shanna has left the building. >> >> Look, a serious arc would be nice. Just to have her to finish her >> >> off wouldn't be worthwhile artistically or financially. >> > >> >I think it was a dumb thing to do, but now that they've fired >> >Charisma, ME's best bet is to leave Cordy alone. >> >> I think that's been the plan. Problem is that there are problems >> with that gaping hole left by her not being there. > >Yeah? I am under the impression that they established in the opener >the only one who cared Cordy was gone was Harmony. Well, no, both AD and DB looked sad, and Harm did for a second and then went on. Anyway, the only >way to fix those problems is for Joss to admit he was wrong. I don't >like the odds against that happening. Besides, there's Harmony. And >Spike! You mean "NEW AND IMPROVED SPIKE!!!! NOW WITH FEWER CLOTHING!" >> There's nothing they >> >can do to fix how badly they screwed up Cordelia and _Angel_ with the >> >crap that went on last season anyway. >> >> Sure you can. > >No, Micky called this one too. They can either salvage Cordy by >trashing _Angel_ or vice-versa, but they can't save both. Gee, I >wonder which will be sacrificed? Naw, just go with "SKIP LIED!", Cordy was conned into Heeeaaaven, it was Jasmine and the Cordemon all along, and just ignore that it doesn't make any sense. Lord knows ME is good at that. :-) Jasmine doesn't have to be one of TPTB. Or it could be that TPTB wanted her gone. That they were the ones sending the messages through Cordy. Or... Oh hell, Micky's right again. Personally, I'd blow up _Angel_. But it looks like ME's beaten me to it this season. :-) >> Sure they won't. > >Since CC has taken the excellent 'Run, Charisma, run!' advice and >there's no way Joss will admit he's wrong, no, they won't. I hope this means she saved enough FU money, cause it's most sweet when you are in the position to say it and mean it. Unless >Whedon adopts the 'Eve is Cordelia' theory, I suppose. It's not like >it's beneath him or anything. I think he stole one of my ideas once. And that should be beneath any fanfic writer. >> Well, most actors don't know Joss, so... >> >> Oh, you meant actors who have worked with Joss. Ah, I think >> there probably is more on that list than you think. Or he realizes. > >I was sticking with the list Joss provided. You know, just to maintain >a workable number. Ah, well then OK. >> >PregnantBuffy should show up and announce her recent marriage to >> >Xander. What? He already lost an eye, he may as well get stuck with >> >Buffy. >> >> I guess the Buffyverse is Calvinistic, except Xander gets >> his hell on earth. :-) >> >> Be careful what you wish for. > >Didn't think of that. Hmm, Angel more than deserves to spend his time >in hell-on-earth too. Maybe he and Xander can work out some kind of >time-sharing thing. I'm sure Buffy 'What about meeeeeeeeee!' Summers >could keep'em both busy. You know what Freud would make of such an arrangement? Slash city. (Yeah, like there isn't any Xander/Angel slash. :-) >> Well, I could snip your attributes too, but then... > >Yeah, I saw that thread. I guess no one has parsed out what Skip said. That ME == TPTB and it's all was planned out ahead of time? Yeah, I believe that one. Just as much as I believe Skip now. >Just as well, I suppose. Angel: That thing isn't Cordelia. I'm going with "Skip LIED!" And Cordy's probably now the head PTB. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-30 06:02:45-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031028204333.27614.00000186@mb-m04.aol.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >There's a spoiler in here about episode seven for anyone who cares. > > > >. > >. > >. > >. > >. > >. > >. > >. > > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031027131320.12335.00000219@mb-m01.aol.com>... > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > >> > >Good news for baseball though, Grady Little is available for another > >managing opportunity. > > Yeah, but Hargrove or Charlie Manuel? Who's doing drugs, the > management or the bored newspaper guys? Why can't they all be doing drugs? It would explain a lot. > >And Fenway Franks. > > Not as good as Stadium Mustard. You've obviously not had a Fenway Frank. > >If there was any doubt, I understand the big Wesley story where daddy > >finally shows up after being hinted at for three seasons is the 'B' > >story of episode seven, taking a backseat to cyborg assassins who are > >after Spike and that other guy. Don't look, Shanna! > > I'm guessing Shanna has left the building. Yeah, I expect she has as well. If not, I imagine she will after something that predates Spike on _Angel_ gets shoved into the "B" story so there can be more Spike-alicious "fun". > >Yeah? I am under the impression that they established in the opener > >the only one who cared Cordy was gone was Harmony. > > Well, no, both AD and DB looked sad, and Harm did for a second > and then went on. Oh, well, if both Angel and Wesley looked sad, then I stand corrected. > You mean "NEW AND IMPROVED SPIKE!!!! NOW WITH FEWER > CLOTHING!" Fewer clothing? Has _Angel_ moved to HBO? > >No, Micky called this one too. They can either salvage Cordy by > >trashing _Angel_ or vice-versa, but they can't save both. Gee, I > >wonder which will be sacrificed? > > Naw, just go with "SKIP LIED!", Cordy was conned into Heeeaaaven, > it was Jasmine and the Cordemon all along, and just ignore that > it doesn't make any sense. Eh, it doesn't make any less sense than what happened last season, and it makes more sense then an attempt at saying sometimes it was Cordy and sometimes it was Jasmine. And it's better than leaving "if you stop indulging your own selfish desires to help those in need, you'll just end up get screwed" as the moral of Cordy's story. They could even try to make some sort of comparison between Cordy's anxiousness to accept her "reward" and the return of the Shanshu prophecy. Not a good one obviously, but they could try. The only real problem left then is why HB-Cordy didn't interfere with Jasmine the same way she interferred with the slot machine. Not that Joss has to worry about that; the devout will do all the fanwanking for him. But how to make it All About Spike? Hmm... > Personally, I'd blow up _Angel_. But it looks like ME's > beaten me to it this season. :-) I've been reading posts elsewhere claiming this season is just as good as season four, so you may be right. > >Since CC has taken the excellent 'Run, Charisma, run!' advice and > >there's no way Joss will admit he's wrong, no, they won't. > > I hope this means she saved enough FU money, cause it's most > sweet when you are in the position to say it and mean it. I still think CC'd be better off going back to waitressing than going back to _Angel_. > >> Well, I could snip your attributes too, but then... > > > >Yeah, I saw that thread. I guess no one has parsed out what Skip said. > > That ME == TPTB and it's all was planned out ahead of time? That, and the bit about no one having the free will to do anything other than what Jasmine wanted them to do to fulfill her Vewy Secwet Pwan. Pretty much relieves anyone of any responsibility for anything. > Yeah, I believe that one. Just as much as I believe Skip now. I also don't believe Skip, but then I don't believe Jasmine's lies either. > I'm going with "Skip LIED!" If it was Skip... (See, I was going to drop this thread, but I just couldn't resist the opportunity.) > And Cordy's probably now the head PTB. What with all the others suffering from broken noses, I'm sure she is. Terry

2003-10-30 14:23:46+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031028204333.27614.00000186@mb-m04.aol.com>... >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >There's a spoiler in here about episode seven for anyone who cares. >> > >> >. >> >. >> >. >> >. >> >. >> >. >> >. >> >. >> > >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031027131320.12335.00000219@mb-m01.aol.com>... >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >> >Good news for baseball though, Grady Little is available for another >> >managing opportunity. >> >> Yeah, but Hargrove or Charlie Manuel? Who's doing drugs, the >> management or the bored newspaper guys? > >Why can't they all be doing drugs? It would explain a lot. Throw in ME... >> >And Fenway Franks. >> >> Not as good as Stadium Mustard. > >You've obviously not had a Fenway Frank. Stadium Mustard made the hot dogs at the old stadium edible. That's more impressive than any top flight hot dog. >> >Yeah? I am under the impression that they established in the opener >> >the only one who cared Cordy was gone was Harmony. >> >> Well, no, both AD and DB looked sad, and Harm did for a second >> and then went on. > >Oh, well, if both Angel and Wesley looked sad, then I stand corrected. Hey, at least it was probably the only mention of Cordy we'll get this season. >> >No, Micky called this one too. They can either salvage Cordy by >> >trashing _Angel_ or vice-versa, but they can't save both. Gee, I >> >wonder which will be sacrificed? >> >> Naw, just go with "SKIP LIED!", Cordy was conned into Heeeaaaven, >> it was Jasmine and the Cordemon all along, and just ignore that >> it doesn't make any sense. > >Eh, it doesn't make any less sense than what happened last season, and >it makes more sense then an attempt at saying sometimes it was Cordy >and sometimes it was Jasmine. Which would have been OK if they had even said that. I have, and by the writing neither did they, no clue as to when it was Cordy, when it wasn't Cordy, if it was Cordy, if it never was Cordy. And it's better than leaving "if you >stop indulging your own selfish desires to help those in need, you'll >just end up get screwed" as the moral of Cordy's story. I do think that some were right that the moral should have be to do good for its own sake and not for how it makes you feel, cause otherwise you'll be manipulated. Problem is that yours fits better. The only real problem left >then is why HB-Cordy didn't interfere with Jasmine the same way she >interferred with the slot machine. What? You mean they just *happen* to run into a group fighting with a survivor of Jasmine's last attempt which just *happen* to have a creature who Angel could fight to get her name to defeat her? The slot machine must have been easy compared to that. Besides that, no more Connor! Not that Joss has to worry about >that; the devout will do all the fanwanking for him. But how to make >it All About Spike? Hmm... By keeping his heart in a jar and slicing him into small enough pieces to fit everywhere? :-) >> Personally, I'd blow up _Angel_. But it looks like ME's >> beaten me to it this season. :-) > >I've been reading posts elsewhere claiming this season is just as good >as season four, so you may be right. Oh, it is. >> >Since CC has taken the excellent 'Run, Charisma, run!' advice and >> >there's no way Joss will admit he's wrong, no, they won't. >> >> I hope this means she saved enough FU money, cause it's most >> sweet when you are in the position to say it and mean it. > >I still think CC'd be better off going back to waitressing than going >back to _Angel_. Not if they pay enough. College funds and all that. I think CC will be better off never becoming a regular, but if the money's good for a few weeks work, "...take the money and run." >> >> Well, I could snip your attributes too, but then... >> > >> >Yeah, I saw that thread. I guess no one has parsed out what Skip said. >> >> That ME == TPTB and it's all was planned out ahead of time? > >That, and the bit about no one having the free will to do anything >other than what Jasmine wanted them to do to fulfill her Vewy Secwet >Pwan. Pretty much relieves anyone of any responsibility for anything. So Joss == Jasmine? Makes sense. >> Yeah, I believe that one. Just as much as I believe Skip now. > >I also don't believe Skip, but then I don't believe Jasmine's lies >either. Then again, you can't believe anyone anymore. They either are mistaken, erroneous, intentionally lying, or just saying it cause the writers need it, and those needs change constantly. Harmony's a more trustworthy character than any of them now. >> I'm going with "Skip LIED!" > >If it was Skip... > >(See, I was going to drop this thread, but I just couldn't resist the >opportunity.) Ah, nothing like the classics. BTW, did you read where Fury loved the Cordelia character, until she became serious? About as good as Lord Usher saying all of Angel's problems and leaving ComaCordy completely out of them. Yeah, Jasmine's loss was much more important. Blech. >> And Cordy's probably now the head PTB. > >What with all the others suffering from broken noses, I'm sure she is. Not like they don't deserve it. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-10-30 19:15:15-06:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com>)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in news:20031030092346.29057.00000001 @mb-m07.aol.com: > BTW, did you read where Fury loved the Cordelia character, until > she became serious? > > About as good as Lord Usher saying all of Angel's problems and > leaving ComaCordy completely out of them. Yeah, Jasmine's loss > was much more important. Blech. Jeez, it's a good thing I still do ego searches when I'm bored, or I wouldn't have known that you're misrepresenting my opinions to others, Stephen! :) In the post to which you refer, I did *not* mention "all of Angel's problems." I mentioned *specifically* those problems that would likely cause Angel to become cynical about fate and destiny and redemption. Dear as Cordelia is to Angel, I don't think her loss has much of anything to do with *that particular issue*, at least in Angel's mind. But that doesn't mean I think their relationship is unimportant, or however it is you're trying to spin this thing. -- Lord Usher "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."

2003-10-31 13:01:32-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031030092346.29057.00000001@mb-m07.aol.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031028204333.27614.00000186@mb-m04.aol.com>... > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >> >And Fenway Franks. > >> > >> Not as good as Stadium Mustard. > > > >You've obviously not had a Fenway Frank. > > Stadium Mustard made the hot dogs at the old stadium edible. > That's more impressive than any top flight hot dog. I'll concede the point for now, but you have to admit that a hot dog qualifying for the appelation 'top flight' is fairly remarkable in its own right. You win the argument outright if you'll take Ramirez off our hands. > >Oh, well, if both Angel and Wesley looked sad, then I stand corrected. > > Hey, at least it was probably the only mention of Cordy we'll > get this season. No! She has a pivotal role to play! You're not suggesting Joss is lying about that, are you? > >> Naw, just go with "SKIP LIED!", Cordy was conned into Heeeaaaven, > >> it was Jasmine and the Cordemon all along, and just ignore that > >> it doesn't make any sense. > > > >Eh, it doesn't make any less sense than what happened last season, and > >it makes more sense then an attempt at saying sometimes it was Cordy > >and sometimes it was Jasmine. > > Which would have been OK if they had even said that. > > I have, and by the writing neither did they, no clue as to when it was > Cordy, when it wasn't Cordy, if it was Cordy, if it never was Cordy. Yeah. Some associates of mine bandied this around and mostly decided that the writers weren't sure themselves until mid-season whether or not it was sometimes Cordy, sometimes not, even if they all said after the season was over that it was never Cordy. Personally, I think they were just too inept to write the story. > And it's better than leaving "if you > >stop indulging your own selfish desires to help those in need, you'll > >just end up get screwed" as the moral of Cordy's story. > > I do think that some were right that the moral should have be > to do good for its own sake and not for how it makes you feel, cause > otherwise you'll be manipulated. Problem is that yours fits better. I'd be able to appreciate the idea of the moral being do good for its own sake if "Birthday" had been written that way, but it wasn't. The reason Cordelia gave up the visions in the first place was pride. When she took them back, it was done out of compassion for someone who was suffering, and we know this because she didn't remember anything until after she took the visions back, including knowing she was taking the visions back. So Cordy taking the visions back was doing good for the sake of doing good. Despite Whedon's and his acolytes' attempts at retconning the point, they're stuck with that fact. Joss using the subsequent "demonize me already" as his stepping off point makes the moral "if you stop indulging your own selfish desires to help those in need, you'll just end up get screwed". But even if Cordy did take back the visions because of pride, so what? Would that make the reason Cordy wanted to help the helpless was illegal or immoral? Were the helpless any less helped 'cause Cordy was proud of being able to help? Then who gives a damn why she wanted to help the helpless? And it certainly didn't call for the hatchet job they did on Cordelia last season. That said, I'd have been okay with the idea of the moral being "if you stop indulging your own selfish desires to help those in need, you'll just end up get screwed" in itself. After all, rain falls on the evil and the righteous equally. The larger problem is Joss made sure that getting any payoff on it is unlikely to ever happen. And now that I've answered a question you didn't ask, I'll move on. > The only real problem left > >then is why HB-Cordy didn't interfere with Jasmine the same way she > >interferred with the slot machine. > > What? You mean they just *happen* to run into a group fighting > with a survivor of Jasmine's last attempt which just *happen* to > have a creature who Angel could fight to get her name to defeat her? Wow, you have been practicing. > The slot machine must have been easy compared to that. Obviously you've never run afoul of the Nevada Gaming Commission. > Besides that, no more Connor! I hear Kartheiser's been seen on _Angel_'s set. I tend to doubt it, but you never know with Joss. He's more than capable of not leaving a lousy story dead and buried when he can resurrect it's decaying corpse and stink up the joint just a little bit more. > Not that Joss has to worry about > >that; the devout will do all the fanwanking for him. But how to make > >it All About Spike? Hmm... > > By keeping his heart in a jar and slicing him into small enough pieces > to fit everywhere? :-) Oh, you Spike-haters just pick on poor wittle Spikey-poo 'cause you're so jealous. > >> I hope this means she saved enough FU money, cause it's most > >> sweet when you are in the position to say it and mean it. > > > >I still think CC'd be better off going back to waitressing than going > >back to _Angel_. > > > Not if they pay enough. College funds and all that. There's that. But then, CC's bagged a second appearance on _Miss Match_. I have to think an MM appearance pays more than an _Angel_ appearance. > I think CC will be better off never becoming a regular, but if the > money's good for a few weeks work, "...take the money and > run." I suppose. As long as she can make 'em roll over and bark. Possibly fetch something too. A clue maybe. I suppose Cordy beating the crap out of Numfar as he does the Dance of The Apology to the Pregnant Woman is too much to hope for. Anyway, Wrongda is saying CC will be back, probably for the 100th. So I guess either Wrongda doesn't check c-c.com or ME finally made Charisma an offer she can't refuse. > >That, and the bit about no one having the free will to do anything > >other than what Jasmine wanted them to do to fulfill her Vewy Secwet > >Pwan. Pretty much relieves anyone of any responsibility for anything. > > So Joss == Jasmine? Makes sense. Well, then, it can't be right. > Then again, you can't believe anyone anymore. They either > are mistaken, erroneous, intentionally lying, or just saying it > cause the writers need it, and those needs change constantly. Exactly. > Harmony's a more trustworthy character than any of them now. She's also the smartest character. > >> I'm going with "Skip LIED!" > > > >If it was Skip... > > > >(See, I was going to drop this thread, but I just couldn't resist the > >opportunity.) > > Ah, nothing like the classics. Oh, come on. I can see the scene now: Angel: Skip? Skip: Yeah, hi. How you doing? But not in that Joey Tribbiani way. Angel: I thought Wesley killed you. Skip: No, that was my evil twin. Mom had no imagination so she named us both Skip. The whole evil twin deal could have gone either way really. > BTW, did you read where Fury loved the Cordelia character, until > she became serious? You mean the guy who wrote the episode in which the Cordelia story that's already finished is wrapped up? Yes. It reminded me of the interview Minear gave in which he complained about how soapy _Angel_ had become. Poor guys. They write all these classic stories and someone comes along and changes everything in them so the series become soapy and characters get serious. Oh, wait, that probably did happen. Never mind. It's also the same interview where Fury said all he does now for _Angel_ is write a _Buffy_ script and change the names, right? 'Cause that explains a lot too. > About as good as Lord Usher saying all of Angel's problems and > leaving ComaCordy completely out of them. Yeah, Jasmine's loss > was much more important. Blech. Well, if LU says that's not what he meant, then so be it. He's still wrong though. After seing "Chosen," clearly all Angel gives a crap about is getting him some freshly-baked cookies. Be careful what you wish for. > >What with all the others suffering from broken noses, I'm sure she is. > > Not like they don't deserve it. Plus, Cordy promised. It's not like Cordy to not keep a promise. Terry

2003-11-01 05:39:56+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031030092346.29057.00000001@mb-m07.aol.com>... >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031028204333.27614.00000186@mb-m04.aol.com>... >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> > You win the argument outright if you'll take Ramirez off >our hands. Nope, you guys stole him from us via FA fair and square. You get to spend $20 million a year for a player who can't remember to call timeout before leaving a base to get his helmet that fell off. But he still can hit. >> >Oh, well, if both Angel and Wesley looked sad, then I stand corrected. >> >> Hey, at least it was probably the only mention of Cordy we'll >> get this season. > >No! She has a pivotal role to play! You're not suggesting Joss is >lying about that, are you? Joss and the truth don't mix. Hell, they aren't even in the same universe. >> >> Naw, just go with "SKIP LIED!", Cordy was conned into Heeeaaaven, >> >> it was Jasmine and the Cordemon all along, and just ignore that >> >> it doesn't make any sense. >> > >> >Eh, it doesn't make any less sense than what happened last season, and >> >it makes more sense then an attempt at saying sometimes it was Cordy >> >and sometimes it was Jasmine. >> >> Which would have been OK if they had even said that. >> >> I have, and by the writing neither did they, no clue as to when it was >> Cordy, when it wasn't Cordy, if it was Cordy, if it never was Cordy. > >Yeah. Some associates of mine bandied this around and mostly decided >that the writers weren't sure themselves until mid-season whether or >not it was sometimes Cordy, sometimes not, even if they all said after >the season was over that it was never Cordy. Inside Out didn't succeed in making it any clearer, and it should have. They needed just not to go for the cheap "gotcha"s like with Cordelius killing Lilah. If they had properly handled the early parts, like showing that Cordelius was acting for the cameras of W&H after her night with Connor, then we could have had something to hand our hats on. We got jack. Personally, I think they >were just too inept to write the story. It's been my conclusion. So far, it's been my conclusion on their attempts to write complex moral conflicts with gray areas as in this years stories. Though the season is still young. >> And it's better than leaving "if you >> >stop indulging your own selfish desires to help those in need, you'll >> >just end up get screwed" as the moral of Cordy's story. >> >> I do think that some were right that the moral should have be >> to do good for its own sake and not for how it makes you feel, cause >> otherwise you'll be manipulated. Problem is that yours fits better. > >I'd be able to appreciate the idea of the moral being do good for its >own sake if "Birthday" had been written that way, but it wasn't. The >reason Cordelia gave up the visions in the first place was pride. I thought that was self preservation, cause she was about to have the back of her head explode. Though the reasons she kept them was pride despite them killing her. When >she took them back, it was done out of compassion for someone who was >suffering, and we know this because she didn't remember anything until >after she took the visions back, including knowing she was taking the >visions back. So Cordy taking the visions back was doing good for the >sake of doing good. Despite Whedon's and his acolytes' attempts at >retconning the point, they're stuck with that fact. Joss using the >subsequent "demonize me already" as his stepping off point makes the >moral "if you stop indulging your own selfish desires to help those in >need, you'll just end up get screwed". Or basically he didn't have a good moral and just was winging it? >But even if Cordy did take back the visions because of pride, so what? >Would that make the reason Cordy wanted to help the helpless was >illegal or immoral? Were the helpless any less helped 'cause Cordy was >proud of being able to help? Then who gives a damn why she wanted to >help the helpless? And it certainly didn't call for the hatchet job >they did on Cordelia last season. Nothing did. If that was Cordelia in any way, shape, or form but for her body. >That said, I'd have been okay with the idea of the moral being "if you >stop indulging your own selfish desires to help those in need, you'll >just end up get screwed" in itself. After all, rain falls on the evil >and the righteous equally. The larger problem is Joss made sure that >getting any payoff on it is unlikely to ever happen. They use to think these things through before. I don't know if that was Greenwalt or what, but they didn't think things through last season. >> The only real problem left >> >then is why HB-Cordy didn't interfere with Jasmine the same way she >> >interferred with the slot machine. >> >> What? You mean they just *happen* to run into a group fighting >> with a survivor of Jasmine's last attempt which just *happen* to >> have a creature who Angel could fight to get her name to defeat her? > >Wow, you have been practicing. I tried like hell to patch holes in S4. I really did. People don't get it, I wanted to love S4! It should have been great. Instead it was a stinkin' smokin' steamin' pile of fecal material. And S5 hasn't improved my outlook. (though to be fair, I missed the last two episodes due to VCR technical problems, with a brownout and the automatic time changing for DST wasn't set right. Got a great tape of Smallville and some Everybody Loves Raymond reruns. Perry White, woohoo!) >but you never know with Joss. He's more than capable of not leaving a >lousy story dead and buried when he can resurrect it's decaying corpse >and stink up the joint just a little bit more. It's a talent, you have to give him that. >> Not that Joss has to worry about >> >that; the devout will do all the fanwanking for him. But how to make >> >it All About Spike? Hmm... >> >> By keeping his heart in a jar and slicing him into small enough pieces >> to fit everywhere? :-) > >Oh, you Spike-haters just pick on poor wittle Spikey-poo 'cause you're >so jealous. Seeing that he almost dated MT... >> Not if they pay enough. College funds and all that. > >There's that. But then, CC's bagged a second appearance on _Miss >Match_. Excellent. Hopefully Lois Lane's on the way too. I have to think an MM appearance pays more than an _Angel_ >appearance. I think being a guest on Hollywood Squares probably does right now. (Is that show still on?) >> I think CC will be better off never becoming a regular, but if the >> money's good for a few weeks work, "...take the money and >> run." > >Anyway, Wrongda is saying CC will be back, probably for the 100th. So >I guess either Wrongda doesn't check c-c.com or ME finally made >Charisma an offer she can't refuse. Take the money and run! >> >That, and the bit about no one having the free will to do anything >> >other than what Jasmine wanted them to do to fulfill her Vewy Secwet >> >Pwan. Pretty much relieves anyone of any responsibility for anything. >> >> So Joss == Jasmine? Makes sense. > >Well, then, it can't be right. True. >> Then again, you can't believe anyone anymore. They either >> are mistaken, erroneous, intentionally lying, or just saying it >> cause the writers need it, and those needs change constantly. > >Exactly. Bitched the hell about it in S3, and you saw how they changed. :-( >> Harmony's a more trustworthy character than any of them now. > >She's also the smartest character. I thought that was the doorknob. >> BTW, did you read where Fury loved the Cordelia character, until >> she became serious? > >You mean the guy who wrote the episode in which the Cordelia story >that's already finished is wrapped up? Yes. Ain't he nothin'. :-) It reminded me of the >interview Minear gave in which he complained about how soapy _Angel_ >had become. Poor guys. I think TM at least gets some of the irony. Not sure anyone else does. But that was a classic lame complaint. >It's also the same interview where Fury said all he does now for >_Angel_ is write a _Buffy_ script and change the names, right? 'Cause >that explains a lot too. Don't it though. >> >What with all the others suffering from broken noses, I'm sure she is. >> >> Not like they don't deserve it. > >Plus, Cordy promised. It's not like Cordy to not keep a promise. Well, if they have noses. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-02 01:37:26+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message news:20031101003956.03666.00000170@mb-m06.aol.com... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > And S5 hasn't improved my outlook. (though to be fair, I missed > the last two episodes due to VCR technical problems, with > a brownout and the automatic time changing for DST wasn't > set right. Got a great tape of Smallville and some Everybody Loves > Raymond reruns. Perry White, woohoo!) What is it with you and VCR's? Missing WitW and didn't you also miss something from S2 as well? Time to either get a second VCR, take lessons or find a five year old to program it for you. :-) -- Best Regards, Linda I miss Kate Lockley.

2003-11-02 02:11:07+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


"Linda" lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com wrote: >"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message >news:20031101003956.03666.00000170@mb-m06.aol.com... >> >> And S5 hasn't improved my outlook. (though to be fair, I missed >> the last two episodes due to VCR technical problems, with >> a brownout and the automatic time changing for DST wasn't >> set right. Got a great tape of Smallville and some Everybody Loves >> Raymond reruns. Perry White, woohoo!) > >What is it with you and VCR's? Missing WitW and didn't you also miss >something from S2 as well? Sure, but five misses in five season's isn't that bad. Got a copy of everything later on that I wanted. > Time to either get a second VCR, Have two. But neither would work after a brownout/blackout when I'm out. Funny, I purchased the other one because the first broke the day of S2 BtVS premiere. Lord knows, I wouldn't for an ME product anymore. take lessons or >find a five year old to program it for you. > >:-) No, the power outage problems are frequent. Remember where the great blackout of 03 started? But not frequent enough to use one of my computer's UPS. The other was my fault. When I reset the time after the brownout, I didn't set it to DST. So it didn't automatically adjust like it should have. My screwup. OTOH, after reading all the reviews, I'm still not sure that I'm missing anything. Some of them have been brutal. I've never seen as many 1's for episodes as the last two. But hey, the Nielson's have been good. Art over money? Not on TV. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-05 05:57:39-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031101003956.03666.00000170@mb-m06.aol.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031030092346.29057.00000001@mb-m07.aol.com>... > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > >> > > You win the argument outright if you'll take Ramirez off > >our hands. > > Nope, you guys stole him from us via FA fair and square. You > get to spend $20 million a year for a player who can't remember to > call timeout before leaving a base to get his helmet that fell off. > > But he still can hit. Well, then, he's yours, along with a slightly used manager. > >No! She has a pivotal role to play! You're not suggesting Joss is > >lying about that, are you? > > Joss and the truth don't mix. Hell, they aren't even in the same > universe. Yeah, and it's odd that the pivotal role only came to light after SMG turned'em down. > >Yeah. Some associates of mine bandied this around and mostly decided > >that the writers weren't sure themselves until mid-season whether or > >not it was sometimes Cordy, sometimes not, even if they all said after > >the season was over that it was never Cordy. > > Inside Out didn't succeed in making it any clearer, and it should have. > > They needed just not to go for the cheap "gotcha"s like with > Cordelius killing Lilah. If they had properly handled the early parts, > like showing that Cordelius was acting for the cameras of W&H after > her night with Connor, then we could have had something to hand > our hats on. We got jack. Well, that morning after thing, while unnecessary for Jasmine, was also not nearly enough of a reaction for Cordelia. Same with the "Oh, God," at the end of the episode. No, there was no reason for Jasmine to say it, but then, there's no reason for Cordy to say it either. She knows about Angel's sense of smell. In fact, the best arguement for why Cordy would run right from the loft to the hotel in the first place was to make sure if Angel missed the visual, he would smell the results. That's something Jasmine would want, not Cordelia. If they wanted us to think it was ever sometimes Cordy, they needed a scene where Cordy questions why she did something she did or claimed that she didn't do something she did do. But then that might have ruined the Shock! and Surprise! Now their only retreat is to say it was never Cordy in the first place. It's still lousy storytelling, but at least they can claim it was intentionally lousy storytelling. > So far, it's been my conclusion on their attempts to write > complex moral conflicts with gray areas as in this years stories. > > Though the season is still young. Seven years have got behind you, No one told you when to run... > >I'd be able to appreciate the idea of the moral being do good for its > >own sake if "Birthday" had been written that way, but it wasn't. The > >reason Cordelia gave up the visions in the first place was pride. > > I thought that was self preservation, cause she was about to have the > back of her head explode. No. None of what Skip said or showed her swayed her resolve until Skip showed her Angel calling her a weak little rich girl from Sunnydale who couldn't handle working for the PTB. (It was a point much complained about when "Birthday" aired.) Up until then she'd been adamant about keeping the visions despite the sure and certain knowledge of the consequences, and it certainly wasn't self-preservation that caused her to take them back. > Though the reasons she kept them was pride despite them killing > her. But that's a simplistic view. Cordy gave a lot of reasons why she kept the visions, including just to help people who needed help. > >Joss using the > >subsequent "demonize me already" as his stepping off point makes the > >moral "if you stop indulging your own selfish desires to help those in > >need, you'll just end up get screwed". > > Or basically he didn't have a good moral and just was winging it? At the time "Birthday" was written, I think there was a moral. Last season, I think all that was there was 'wouldn't it be cool if...' > >That said, I'd have been okay with the idea of the moral being "if you > >stop indulging your own selfish desires to help those in need, you'll > >just end up get screwed" in itself. After all, rain falls on the evil > >and the righteous equally. The larger problem is Joss made sure that > >getting any payoff on it is unlikely to ever happen. > > They use to think these things through before. I don't know if > that was Greenwalt or what, but they didn't think things through last > season. Well, if Joss hadn't had to pimp _Angel_ out the way he did to get it renewed, he may have actually done something with it. But since he had to bring Spike on board and promise the big BuffyNAngle4EVA!!!!!!!!! ending, Cordelia became expendable. Bonus, he got to fire Kartheiser and forget season four ever happened. Bigger bonus, SMG said no. That last bonus might just be mine though. That said, Minear and Fury both agree no one thought the higher being thing through either, so there's two seasons in a row you have ME minions apologizing for not thinking a story through. (I refer to Jeff Bell's statement in "Dreamwatch" that Kartheiser was let go because they couldn't come up with a way out of ConCord.) And while Whedon hasn't apologized for it, 'cause gods don't apologize, he did admit he didn't know what to do with Cordy after season four either. (From the TV Guide on-line interview: "...so what we had [leading] up to [the end of the season] wasn't a dynamic I wanted to play out that much.") > I tried like hell to patch holes in S4. I really did. There ain't enough spackle. Well, unless you resort to the rather pedestrian 'it's magic!' arguement. Magic should still make some sort of sense within the context of the established way things work on a series though. But there's that sense thing again. > People don't get it, I wanted to love S4! It should have been great. Well, IMO, any story designed to put Cordy in the role of the villain is doomed to failure. As HGH once said, Cordelia is the Cordyverse character least likely to turn evil. > Instead it was a stinkin' smokin' steamin' pile of fecal material. No, a stinkin' smokin' steamin' pile of fecal material can, after time, become suitable fertilizer. Season four doesn't even have that saving grace. > >> Not if they pay enough. College funds and all that. > > > >There's that. But then, CC's bagged a second appearance on _Miss > >Match_. > > Excellent. Hopefully Lois Lane's on the way too. Selma Blair got that role, I hear. CC was an outside shot anyway. I doubt the producers would have gambled on someone who'd never done a movie before in the role. Indiana Jones' daughter is still open though. > I think being a guest on Hollywood Squares probably does > right now. (Is that show still on?) As far as I know. I haven't seen it since Paul Lynde died. > >> I think CC will be better off never becoming a regular, but if the > >> money's good for a few weeks work, "...take the money and > >> run." > > > >Anyway, Wrongda is saying CC will be back, probably for the 100th. So > >I guess either Wrongda doesn't check c-c.com or ME finally made > >Charisma an offer she can't refuse. > > Take the money and run! It's still just a rumor. Shalazar popped on last weekend to say nothing's changed between CC and ME. And Wrongda's watered down her "spoiler" from 'CC's scheduled to appear...' to 'CC's been asked to return for the 100th episode.' Written by that guy who doesn't like writing for Cordy. No, not Minear, the other one. Terry

2003-11-05 15:48:09+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031101003956.03666.00000170@mb-m06.aol.com>... >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031030092346.29057.00000001@mb-m07.aol.com>... >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >> > You win the argument outright if you'll take Ramirez off >> >our hands. >> >> Nope, you guys stole him from us via FA fair and square. > >> But he still can hit. > >Well, then, he's yours, along with a slightly used manager. Got us a spankin' almost new one. But he does have Boston ties. We just try to forget that. :-) Manny's yours now. >> >No! She has a pivotal role to play! You're not suggesting Joss is >> >lying about that, are you? >> >> Joss and the truth don't mix. Hell, they aren't even in the same >> universe. > >Yeah, and it's odd that the pivotal role only came to light after SMG >turned'em down. Money money money mon-ey. Money! I'd almost feel sorry for Joss, except he was a direct cause for most of his mess. >> >that the writers weren't sure themselves until mid-season whether or >> >not it was sometimes Cordy, sometimes not, even if they all said after >> >the season was over that it was never Cordy. >> >> Inside Out didn't succeed in making it any clearer, and it should have. >> >> They needed just not to go for the cheap "gotcha"s like with >> Cordelius killing Lilah. If they had properly handled the early parts, >> like showing that Cordelius was acting for the cameras of W&H after >> her night with Connor, then we could have had something to hand >> our hats on. We got jack. > >Well, that morning after thing, while unnecessary for Jasmine, was >also not nearly enough of a reaction for Cordelia. Guy, when all we have is Joss writing teen Cordy as Xander thought of her and her not reacting enough after C/C, we got jack. She >knows about Angel's sense of smell. In fact, the best arguement for >why Cordy would run right from the loft to the hotel in the first >place was to make sure if Angel missed the visual, he would smell the >results. That's something Jasmine would want, not Cordelia. True, but by that time no one thought that was Cordy. PodCordy won by a landslide in my poll. >But then that might have >ruined the Shock! and Surprise! You mean like trying for cheap "Gotcha!"s? Now their only retreat is to say it >was never Cordy in the first place. It's still lousy storytelling, but >at least they can claim it was intentionally lousy storytelling. No matter what they do, they can't avoid the monicker of "lousy storytelling" for S4. Though give AtS' ME credit. When they had Faith on, they actually did something with the character that was interesting. Still swear that after being stuck on BtVS for six episodes was enough to get ED to run to the hills. >> So far, it's been my conclusion on their attempts to write >> complex moral conflicts with gray areas as in this years stories. >> >> Though the season is still young. > >Seven years have got behind you, >No one told you when to run... They didn't try to do "complex moral conflict" with grey areas before, so I couldn't say that they couldn't till they actually tried to. Complex moral conflict before was Angel going overboard to save Darla, and CrackMagicWillow, neither of which fits that description. ME usually had direct, reasonably clear cut moral conflicts. >> >I'd be able to appreciate the idea of the moral being do good for its >> >own sake if "Birthday" had been written that way, but it wasn't. The >> >reason Cordelia gave up the visions in the first place was pride. >> >> I thought that was self preservation, cause she was about to have the >> back of her head explode. > >No. None of what Skip said or showed her swayed her resolve until Skip >showed her Angel calling her a weak little rich girl from Sunnydale >who couldn't handle working for the PTB. (It was a point much >complained about when "Birthday" aired.) Yeah, but still, she was only there because she was unconscious, waiting for the next one to blow the back of her head off. I agree she finally accepted the false reality based on her being pissed at Angel. Up until then she'd been >adamant about keeping the visions despite the sure and certain >knowledge of the consequences, and it certainly wasn't >self-preservation that caused her to take them back. True, but she didn't know what the effects of taking them back were either. >> Though the reasons she kept them was pride despite them killing >> her. > >But that's a simplistic view. Hey, we're talking ME here. Best to go simplistic as much as possible. Cordy gave a lot of reasons why she kept >the visions, including just to help people who needed help. Disharmony's "air pockets" argues that it was still very much selfish needs being fulfilled. >> >Joss using the >> >subsequent "demonize me already" as his stepping off point makes the >> >moral "if you stop indulging your own selfish desires to help those in >> >need, you'll just end up get screwed". >> >> Or basically he didn't have a good moral and just was winging it? > >At the time "Birthday" was written, I think there was a moral. Never trust a demon name Skip? Last >season, I think all that was there was 'wouldn't it be cool if...' ...you trusted a demon name Skip? :-) >> >That said, I'd have been okay with the idea of the moral being "if you >> >stop indulging your own selfish desires to help those in need, you'll >> >just end up get screwed" in itself. After all, rain falls on the evil >> >and the righteous equally. The larger problem is Joss made sure that >> >getting any payoff on it is unlikely to ever happen. >> >> They use to think these things through before. I don't know if >> that was Greenwalt or what, but they didn't think things through last >> season. > >Well, if Joss hadn't had to pimp _Angel_ out the way he did to get it >renewed, he may have actually done something with it. Like a broach or a flower? (What, a post without a Airplane reference?) But since he had >to bring Spike on board and promise the big BuffyNAngle4EVA!!!!!!!!! >ending, Cordelia became expendable. Until she didn't? Bonus, he got to fire Kartheiser >and forget season four ever happened. But the ConnorMindClean doesn't include the viewers! And it should. Bigger bonus, SMG said no. That >last bonus might just be mine though. Probably. Though not just for you. >That said, Minear and Fury both agree no one thought the higher being >thing through either, so there's two seasons in a row you have ME >minions apologizing for not thinking a story through. Looking like three in a row's a good possibility. (I refer to Jeff >Bell's statement in "Dreamwatch" that Kartheiser was let go because >they couldn't come up with a way out of ConCord.) And while Whedon >hasn't apologized for it, 'cause gods don't apologize, he did admit he >didn't know what to do with Cordy after season four either. Then hows come mere mortals like you, LU, myself, and others can? >> People don't get it, I wanted to love S4! It should have been great. > >Well, IMO, any story designed to put Cordy in the role of the villain >is doomed to failure. As HGH once said, Cordelia is the Cordyverse >character least likely to turn evil. Oh, I don't know about any story, but the one they attempted last season definitely wasn't one. And I think Cordy could be turned evil. But again, not like the crap they were shovelling last season. >> >> Not if they pay enough. College funds and all that. >> > >> >There's that. But then, CC's bagged a second appearance on _Miss >> >Match_. >> >> Excellent. Hopefully Lois Lane's on the way too. > >Selma Blair got that role, I hear. Talk about your wrong casting. CC was an outside shot anyway. I >doubt the producers would have gambled on someone who'd never done a >movie before in the role. I think CC has more screen time with BtVS, Angel, etc., than most. It's not like TV actors haven't crossed over constantly now. Indiana Jones' daughter is still open >though. While I wish her luck, which gal is supposed to be the mother? >> >I guess either Wrongda doesn't check c-c.com or ME finally made >> >Charisma an offer she can't refuse. >> >> Take the money and run! > >It's still just a rumor. Shalazar popped on last weekend to say >nothing's changed between CC and ME. Which I can't blame her on. Which I can blame Joss on. Written by that guy who doesn't like >writing for Cordy. No, not Minear, the other one. Joss? :-) I know, the one who just changes the names from Giles to Wes and does the same old Buffy scripts! Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-06 12:19:54-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031105104809.10607.00000211@mb-m17.aol.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031101003956.03666.00000170@mb-m06.aol.com>... > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >Well, then, he's yours, along with a slightly used manager. > > Got us a spankin' almost new one. But he does have > Boston ties. We just try to forget that. :-) Spreading that curse as best we can. > >Well, that morning after thing, while unnecessary for Jasmine, was > >also not nearly enough of a reaction for Cordelia. > > Guy, when all we have is Joss writing teen Cordy as > Xander thought of her and her not reacting enough > after C/C, we got jack. Not arguing that point, merely illustrating why the two most cited examples of real Cordy aren't. > She > >knows about Angel's sense of smell. In fact, the best arguement for > >why Cordy would run right from the loft to the hotel in the first > >place was to make sure if Angel missed the visual, he would smell the > >results. That's something Jasmine would want, not Cordelia. > > True, but by that time no one thought that was > Cordy. PodCordy won by a landslide in my > poll. Oh, it was after that the "Cordy fucked Connor 'cause that's what moms do when their virgin sons are about to die" theory was espoused. > >But then that might have > >ruined the Shock! and Surprise! > > You mean like trying for cheap "Gotcha!"s? 'Zackly. > Though give AtS' ME credit. When they had Faith on, > they actually did something with the character that was > interesting. Still swear that after being stuck on BtVS for > six episodes was enough to get ED to run to the hills. What did she do on _Angel_ besides break out of jail and get beat up a lot? Well, okay, she beat up Connor, and for that I'll always be grateful, but still... > They didn't try to do "complex moral conflict" with grey > areas before, so I couldn't say that they couldn't till > they actually tried to. > > Complex moral conflict before was Angel going overboard > to save Darla, and CrackMagicWillow, neither of which fits that description. > > ME usually had direct, reasonably clear cut moral conflicts. Yes, they do. Point being ME ducks doing the complex moral conflict story. They backed down with DarkAngel to the point that BeigeAngel exaggerates the case. CrackMagicWillow was a complete wimping out of a storyline they'd been setting up since Willow said, "Press the 'Deliver' key." Even the return of Lamegelus last season was worth nothing more than a bunch of speeches. They could have done a complex moral conflict story with RealCordy and they ducked that too, even after Charisma gave them a second chance to think things through. They still could have done a complex moral conflict story with Jasmine, but they made her just another evil evil thing that needed killing. So from whence comes any hope that this season will be any different? > >No. None of what Skip said or showed her swayed her resolve until Skip > >showed her Angel calling her a weak little rich girl from Sunnydale > >who couldn't handle working for the PTB. > > Yeah, but still, she was only there because she was > unconscious, waiting for the next one to blow the back > of her head off. Well, yeah, but she was also there the times she told Skip she was keeping the visions. > Disharmony's "air pockets" argues that it was still very > much selfish needs being fulfilled. "To Shanshu in L.A." 's "We have to help them" argues that there were still some very not selfish needs being fulfilled as well. That's why saying it was all pride is as simplistic as saying Wesley wanted to be the leader just to impress Daddy. Yes, a part of Wesley's reason was he wanted to impress Daddy, but he also used to have a commitment to the mission. Cordy liking being needed by others doesn't mean that's the only reason she wanted to keep the visions. Anyway, is it some kind of sin for someone to find fulfillment in what they do? 'Cause really, I thought that was the point. > >Well, if Joss hadn't had to pimp _Angel_ out the way he did to get it > >renewed, he may have actually done something with it. > > Like a broach or a flower? Or a pteradactyl. > (What, a post without a Airplane reference?) Like a night without sunshine. > But since he had > >to bring Spike on board and promise the big BuffyNAngle4EVA!!!!!!!!! > >ending, Cordelia became expendable. > > Until she didn't? Well, if she's only no longer expendable 'cause SMG won't agree to be on the sinking ship, there's another reason CC should tell'em to shove it. > >And while Whedon > >hasn't apologized for it, 'cause gods don't apologize, he did admit he > >didn't know what to do with Cordy after season four either. > > Then hows come mere mortals like you, LU, myself, > and others can? 'Cause we don't have to play network politics, I guess. Or we're better liars than Joss is. Which is sad considering he's a writer of fiction who can't lie well. > And I think Cordy could be turned evil. But again, not > like the crap they were shovelling last season. I don't see how you can think Cordy had enough layers to have the potential to be evil if you don't think she had enough layers to appreciate the results of being Vision Girl beyond anything selfish. > >> Excellent. Hopefully Lois Lane's on the way too. > > > >Selma Blair got that role, I hear. > > Talk about your wrong casting. Yeah. But she's a bigger name, for better or worse. > >Indiana Jones' daughter is still open > >though. > > While I wish her luck, which gal is supposed to be the > mother? Dunno. Karen Allen gets my vote, but Kate Capshaw is sleeping with the director, so... > Written by that guy who doesn't like > >writing for Cordy. No, not Minear, the other one. > > > Joss? :-) Why not? At least I won't be tempted to tune in. Watching CC in a mediocre episode of _Miss Match_ is bearable. Watching CC in a mediocre episode of _Angel_ I can do by watching "She" again. Which I also won't do. Terry

2003-11-07 17:41:54+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031105104809.10607.00000211@mb-m17.aol.com>... >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031101003956.03666.00000170@mb-m06.aol.com>... >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >Well, then, he's yours, along with a slightly used manager. >> >> Got us a spankin' almost new one. But he does have >> Boston ties. We just try to forget that. :-) > >Spreading that curse as best we can. And you do it so well. >Oh, it was after that the "Cordy fucked Connor 'cause that's what moms >do when their virgin sons are about to die" theory was espoused. While a HotMamma, she wasn't Connor's actual mom. Still enough of a 'yuck' to get most people wondering what pod creature had taken on a Cordelia form. >> >But then that might have >> >ruined the Shock! and Surprise! >> >> You mean like trying for cheap "Gotcha!"s? > >'Zackly. 'kay. >> Though give AtS' ME credit. When they had Faith on, >> they actually did something with the character that was >> interesting. Still swear that after being stuck on BtVS for >> six episodes was enough to get ED to run to the hills. > >What did she do on _Angel_ besides break out of jail and get beat up a >lot? Well, okay, she beat up Connor, and for that I'll always be >grateful, but still... Not arguing if the arc that season needed Faith, it didn't, but rather was Faith used in a manner that at least added to her story. I'd say yes. It showed more about where she was and what she was trying for in just two episodes than her whole appearance on S7 BtVS. She learnt about why redemption isn't earned by good deeds, but rather it being as a journey. Sort of the Cliff Notes version of Epiphany. Now again, they didn't need to have Faith being broken out of jail and her tricking Angelus into drinking her drugged up blood. Willow was able to do it all. But then you'd have had two additional episodes to split between Jasmine and The Beast story arcs. Would you have preferred that? >> They didn't try to do "complex moral conflict" with grey >> areas before, so I couldn't say that they couldn't till >> they actually tried to. >> >> Complex moral conflict before was Angel going overboard >> to save Darla, and CrackMagicWillow, neither of which fits that >description. >> >> ME usually had direct, reasonably clear cut moral conflicts. > >Yes, they do. Point being ME ducks doing the complex moral conflict >story. Oh, hell yeah. Now that could be that they didn't want to tell those stories, or that they aren't good enough to. The latter turned out to be the case. They backed down with DarkAngel to the point that BeigeAngel >exaggerates the case. CrackMagicWillow was a complete wimping out of a >storyline they'd been setting up since Willow said, "Press the >'Deliver' key." Even the return of Lamegelus last season was worth >nothing more than a bunch of speeches. All true. They could have done a complex >moral conflict story with RealCordy and they ducked that too, even >after Charisma gave them a second chance to think things through. I'd love to hear a more in depth story behind that comment. They >still could have done a complex moral conflict story with Jasmine, but >they made her just another evil evil thing that needed killing. But then they wouldn't have a metaphor of true believers becoming at one with their god! Get it? At one with...heh, see, being devoured being like...heh. ME use to be good at that sort of thing. So >from whence comes any hope that this season will be any different? That insane illusion that has enough of us bitter people coming back for more disillusionment, they might remember what once made them great. That and if only the King knew. >> Disharmony's "air pockets" argues that it was still very >> much selfish needs being fulfilled. > >"To Shanshu in L.A." 's "We have to help them" argues that there were >still some very not selfish needs being fulfilled as well. That's why >saying it was all pride is as simplistic as saying Wesley wanted to be >the leader just to impress Daddy. Yes, a part of Wesley's reason was >he wanted to impress Daddy, but he also used to have a commitment to >the mission. Cordy liking being needed by others doesn't mean that's >the only reason she wanted to keep the visions. OK, I agree that the reasons should be more complex. But if certaint selfish needs are being fulfilled, many seem to think that as a bad thing. Others, of course, would think of anything that isn't fulfilling your own personal needs as irrational. It's a philosophy thang, so I suck at it. >Anyway, is it some kind of sin for someone to find fulfillment in what >they do? 'Cause really, I thought that was the point. Naw, you're suppose to do good for its own sake, not for some reward, internal or external. Didn't you get the epiphany memo? Course that leads to going through the motions, touching fire and feeling cold, and a lot of Spike sex. Though I'm gathering it's more likely to be more Eve sex in this instance. >> >Well, if Joss hadn't had to pimp _Angel_ out the way he did to get it >> >renewed, he may have actually done something with it. >> >> Like a broach or a flower? > >Or a pteradactyl. > >> (What, a post without a Airplane reference?) > >Like a night without sunshine. It's part of the day when the sun has gone down, but that's not important right now. >> But since he had >> >to bring Spike on board and promise the big BuffyNAngle4EVA!!!!!!!!! >> >ending, Cordelia became expendable. >> >> Until she didn't? > >Well, if she's only no longer expendable 'cause SMG won't agree to be >on the sinking ship, there's another reason CC should tell'em to shove >it. Sadly, there's part of me that would love just a little more Cordelia in my viewing life, but I can't blame CC if that's not to be. Joss, the lying rat bastard OTOH... >> >And while Whedon >> >hasn't apologized for it, 'cause gods don't apologize, he did admit he >> >didn't know what to do with Cordy after season four either. >> >> Then hows come mere mortals like you, LU, myself, >> and others can? > >'Cause we don't have to play network politics, I guess. Or we're >better liars than Joss is. Which is sad considering he's a writer of >fiction who can't lie well. Look, I get the Suits wanted Spike, and that the ME staff was pissed off at Charisma, but why don't you just admit why things happened? Especially when you suck so much at lying. Of course the Suits are all saying that Spike wasn't their idea. >> And I think Cordy could be turned evil. But again, not >> like the crap they were shovelling last season. > >I don't see how you can think Cordy had enough layers to have the >potential to be evil if you don't think she had enough layers to >appreciate the results of being Vision Girl beyond anything selfish. Is this "you" Joss or "you" myself? I do think she has layers. I think that those arguing that Cordy was tricked by hubris have a decent point, because hubris is one of those layers. Wanting to succeed and be the best is a strong characteristic of Cordy. That doesn't preclude others, like wanting to do what's right. What is good. What does help the most. What gets her out of having to talk to Angel about her feelings. So there were many reasons for her to accept ascension. One of which is probably an overblown sense of worth. Along with getting out of town is a great idea instead of getting involved with Angel romantically. Seeing hubris, overblown sense of self and worth, and other natural human failings are in Cordy, I can see her arc allowing for her to become evil. It'd take a lot of work, but it can be done. >> >> Excellent. Hopefully Lois Lane's on the way too. >> > >> >Selma Blair got that role, I hear. >> >> Talk about your wrong casting. > >Yeah. But she's a bigger name, for better or worse. But she's a ditz actress, as in always playing ditzy women. Perhaps casting against type will work here, but not seeing it yet. >> >Indiana Jones' daughter is still open >> >though. >> >> While I wish her luck, which gal is supposed to be the >> mother? > >Dunno. Karen Allen gets my vote, but Kate Capshaw is sleeping with the >director, so... Charisma playing Karen Allen's daughter? Not seeing the reality there. OTOH Kate Capshaw having Charisma as a daughter I could see. Watching CC in a >mediocre episode of _Miss Match_ is bearable. Watching CC in a >mediocre episode of _Angel_ I can do by watching "She" again. Which I >also won't do. Not when Rm W A Vw, Expecting, TVT, Billy, and others would have more CC and are better episodes. But gee, that means she wasn't in an episode where Gunn pissed on everything. Damn shame. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-12 06:49:05-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031107124154.13549.00000517@mb-m11.aol.com>... > > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031105104809.10607.00000211@mb-m17.aol.com>... > > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > >> > >> >Well, then, he's yours, along with a slightly used manager. > >> > >> Got us a spankin' almost new one. But he does have > >> Boston ties. We just try to forget that. :-) > > > >Spreading that curse as best we can. > > And you do it so well. Years and years of practice. > While a HotMamma, she wasn't Connor's actual mom. Still enough > of a 'yuck' to get most people wondering what pod creature had > taken on a Cordelia form. Even so, the theory that it was Cordelia and only Cordelia existed well beyond AN. I gather it exists still. I'd blame the adherents for missing the point if it weren't for the fact that ME blurred the point into near-invisibility. > Not arguing if the arc that season needed Faith, it didn't, but > rather was Faith used in a manner that at least added to her > story. I'd say yes. > > It showed more about where she was and what she was trying > for in just two episodes than her whole appearance on S7 > BtVS. She learnt about why redemption isn't earned by good > deeds, but rather it being as a journey. Sort of the Cliff Notes > version of Epiphany. Well, you got more out of it than I did. Then again, my attention was already starting to wander, so maybe that's to be expected. > Now again, they didn't need to have Faith being broken out of jail and > her tricking Angelus into drinking her drugged up blood. Willow > was able to do it all. But then you'd have had two additional episodes > to split between Jasmine and The Beast story arcs. Would you have > preferred that? Nothing I preferred to happen happened last season. > They could have done a complex > >moral conflict story with RealCordy and they ducked that too, even > >after Charisma gave them a second chance to think things through. > > I'd love to hear a more in depth story behind that comment. Which comment? I ask 'cause the second comment seems self-explanatory and I don't want to bore anyone with my fanfic by answering for the first comment. > >They > >still could have done a complex moral conflict story with Jasmine, but > >they made her just another evil evil thing that needed killing. > > But then they wouldn't have a metaphor of true believers becoming > at one with their god! Get it? At one with...heh, see, being devoured > being like...heh. > > ME use to be good at that sort of thing. They've forgotten that showing a someone getting down on all fours to run like a deer isn't a metaphor, it's just a stupid thing for someone to do. > So > >from whence comes any hope that this season will be any different? > > That insane illusion that has enough of us bitter people coming back > for more disillusionment, they might remember what once made > them great. Hmm. I understand that Alcoholics Anonymous defines insanity as doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. > OK, I agree that the reasons should be more complex. But if > certaint selfish needs are being fulfilled, many seem to think > that as a bad thing. Others, of course, would think of anything > that isn't fulfilling your own personal needs as irrational. It's a philosophy > thang, so I suck at it. It can't be very philosophical; it's too simple. Witness: Everyone who does a job they get no satisfaction whatsoever out of, raise your hands. Now keep them raised while we count the idiots. IOW, I doubt that most of the people decrying Cordelia's selfishness in wanting to keep the visions and enable her to do something that she found personal fulfillment in doing would be willing to apply the same standard to themselves. > >Anyway, is it some kind of sin for someone to find fulfillment in what > >they do? 'Cause really, I thought that was the point. > > Naw, you're suppose to do good for its own sake, not for some > reward, internal or external. Didn't you get the epiphany memo? I guess not. But if I read LU's thoughts on the last episode correctly, I'm not the only one. At least Cordy's reward was internal to her and therefore she didn't need an entire episode devoted to reassuring Cordy that everyone thinks she's swell as apparently Angel needs. Or is Cordy the only one who's not allowed to feel good about doing good? And how come Angel gets to feel good about doing good when all he's currently doing is being less evil than Holland was? Why does the Buffy-izing of _Angel_ need to include all the pointless navel-gazing in which _Buffy_ indulged in its later years? Remember back in the day when _Angel_'s message was "Okay, so you've got personal issues. Big deal, get off your ass and help out"? Man, those were the days. > Course that leads to going through the motions, touching fire > and feeling cold, and a lot of Spike sex. > > Though I'm gathering it's more likely to be more Eve sex in this > instance. I've only seen Sarah Thompson being Dana Poole, but that's enought to see why more Eve sex could be a desirable thing. I get the impression she isn't thrilling the faithful on her acting merits anyway. > Sadly, there's part of me that would love just a little more Cordelia > in my viewing life, but I can't blame CC if that's not to be. Joss, the > lying rat bastard OTOH... I hear Bell is still trying to get CC to change her mind. I'd have to think they're going to have to give up on it soon no matter what. They'll need time to rewrite whatever portion of the episode Cordelia was supposed to be in. Judging from last season, that's not something they do well any more. But at least they'll get to blame it all on Charisma again. > Look, I get the Suits wanted Spike, and that the ME staff was pissed > off at Charisma, but why don't you just admit why things happened? > Especially when you suck so much at lying. Because then it confirms the reality that the suits are running the show. Joss prefers to believe he's in complete control of everything, even though that obviously wasn't true even when BtVS was on top of its game. Specifically relating to Charisma and Kartheiser, Joss would have to admit that he screwed up in making Cordelia a higher being and then he screwed up again trying to undo what he did, and that even Kartheiser could see Joss never had any idea what to do with Connor. It's a lot easier on Joss' ego to fire CC and VK, claim their stories were at an end (true at least of Connor, as dumb an ending as it was), and just pretend it never happened. And it's not like no one believes him, it's just that anyone with simple deductive reasoning skills doesn't. > Of course the Suits are all saying that Spike wasn't their idea. Only now that Spike hasn't been the ratings draw the suits thought he'd be. > >> And I think Cordy could be turned evil. But again, not > >> like the crap they were shovelling last season. > > > >I don't see how you can think Cordy had enough layers to have the > >potential to be evil if you don't think she had enough layers to > >appreciate the results of being Vision Girl beyond anything selfish. > > Is this "you" Joss or "you" myself? Joss isn't the one who said the only reason Cordy kept the visions was pride. > I do think she has layers. I think that those arguing that > Cordy was tricked by hubris have a decent point, because hubris > is one of those layers. They'd have a decent point if that's how "Birthday" was written, but it wasn't, hence the screwed up moral of Cordy's story. They'd have a decent point if that's how any of the post-"Birthday" episodes were written, but they weren't. There was no con job on Cordy. The con job didn't happen until Joss pulled it on the audience in season four. That so many bit on it is not surprising; see P. T. Barnum's famous maxim. > So there were many reasons for her to accept ascension. > One of which is probably an overblown sense of worth. Along with > getting out of town is a great idea instead of getting involved with Angel > romantically. Since the only higher beings we've ever met is the Glitter Twins, I really don't understand from where people get this idea that being a higher being is "better" than being a lower being. And if Cordy didn't want to talk to Angel about having fluffy bunny feelings, all she needed to do was not talk to Angel about having fluffy bunny feelings. Plus, not to beat a dead horse or anything, but when "Tomorrow" was written, Cordy wasn't being conned into or running away from anything. > Seeing hubris, overblown sense of self and worth, and other natural > human failings are in Cordy, I can see her arc allowing for her to > become evil. It'd take a lot of work, but it can be done. But Cordy doesn't have in overblown sense of self-worth. She only accepted higher-beingness. That's short of the goddessness for which she qualifies. And then there's the company she keeps. Who wouldn't feel good about themselves when they're surrounded by murderers, kidnappers, rapists, and liars? > >> >Selma Blair got that role, I hear. > >> > >> Talk about your wrong casting. > > > >Yeah. But she's a bigger name, for better or worse. > > But she's a ditz actress, as in always playing ditzy women. Yeah? Okay. It could just be another rumor though. I got it from Herc's site, which is just slightly more reliable than Wrongda. Then again, the weather in New England is slightly more reliable than Wrongda. > >> >Indiana Jones' daughter is still open > >> >though. > >> > >> While I wish her luck, which gal is supposed to be the > >> mother? > > > >Dunno. Karen Allen gets my vote, but Kate Capshaw is sleeping with the > >director, so... > > Charisma playing Karen Allen's daughter? Not seeing the reality there. Karen Allen is 52, Charisma Carpenter is 33. It's possible. > OTOH Kate Capshaw having Charisma as a daughter I could see. Kate Capshaw is younger than Karen Allen. > Watching CC in a > >mediocre episode of _Miss Match_ is bearable. Watching CC in a > >mediocre episode of _Angel_ I can do by watching "She" again. Which I > >also won't do. > > Not when Rm W A Vw, Expecting, TVT, Billy, and others would have > more CC and are better episodes. But those aren't mediocre episodes. > But gee, that means she wasn't in an episode where Gunn > pissed on everything. Damn shame. I read about that. Yeah, at the very least, Charisma was spared having to be in that episode. It's all about the silver linings. Terry

2003-11-12 16:03:03+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031107124154.13549.00000517@mb-m11.aol.com>... >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031105104809.10607.00000211@mb-m17.aol.com>... >> >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> > >> While a HotMamma, she wasn't Connor's actual mom. Still enough >> of a 'yuck' to get most people wondering what pod creature had >> taken on a Cordelia form. > >Even so, the theory that it was Cordelia and only Cordelia existed >well beyond AN. Skip lied, and backed down when pushed. There wasn't any Cordy there. I gather it exists still. I'd blame the adherents for >missing the point if it weren't for the fact that ME blurred the point >into near-invisibility. True, it's allowed people to have some strange views on Cordelius. But at least we don't have arguments about Spike, the non-raping vampire (now with insta-soul). >> It showed more about where she was and what she was trying >> for in just two episodes than her whole appearance on S7 >> BtVS. She learnt about why redemption isn't earned by good >> deeds, but rather it being as a journey. Sort of the Cliff Notes >> version of Epiphany. > >Well, you got more out of it than I did. Then again, my attention was >already starting to wander, so maybe that's to be expected. Well, it was repeating itself, again. >>But then you'd have had two additional episodes >> to split between Jasmine and The Beast story arcs. Would you have >> preferred that? > >Nothing I preferred to happen happened last season. That's true enough. >> >They >> >still could have done a complex moral conflict story with Jasmine, but >> >they made her just another evil evil thing that needed killing. >> >> >> But then they wouldn't have a metaphor of true believers becoming >> at one with their god! Get it? At one with...heh, see, being devoured >> being like...heh. >> >> ME use to be good at that sort of thing. > >They've forgotten that showing a someone getting down on all fours to >run like a deer isn't a metaphor, it's just a stupid thing for someone >to do. ME, the Shaman metaphor writing guys. >> So >> >from whence comes any hope that this season will be any different? >> >> That insane illusion that has enough of us bitter people coming back >> for more disillusionment, they might remember what once made >> them great. > >Hmm. I understand that Alcoholics Anonymous defines insanity as doing >the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Yeah, but the original results weren't! Granted, sticking through S5, S6, S7 BtVS does reach that level of insanity, but Angel's only gone -- a season and two thirds. OK, I'm nuts for sticking it out to 100. But hey, the Mexican Wrestling episode didn't suck. >> OK, I agree that the reasons should be more complex. But if >> certaint selfish needs are being fulfilled, many seem to think >> that as a bad thing. Others, of course, would think of anything >> that isn't fulfilling your own personal needs as irrational. It's a >philosophy >> thang, so I suck at it. > >It can't be very philosophical; it's too simple. Witness: Everyone who >does a job they get no satisfaction whatsoever out of, raise your >hands. Now keep them raised while we count the idiots. Different level. Getting great satisfaction <> Getting any satisfaction. Cordy was most definitely on the great satisfaction level. >IOW, I doubt that most of the people decrying Cordelia's selfishness >in wanting to keep the visions and enable her to do something that she >found personal fulfillment in doing would be willing to apply the same >standard to themselves. If what you were doing on the job was about to cause your death you would still do it, raise your hands. Amazing how few would keep doing what they are doing if it'd kill them. Cordy was in Birthday. >> >Anyway, is it some kind of sin for someone to find fulfillment in what >> >they do? 'Cause really, I thought that was the point. >> >> Naw, you're suppose to do good for its own sake, not for some >> reward, internal or external. Didn't you get the epiphany memo? > >I guess not. But if I read LU's thoughts on the last episode >correctly, I'm not the only one. Hey, at least LU isn't rating it with Hush. No, I'm not joking. And how come Angel gets to feel good about doing good when >all he's currently doing is being less evil than Holland was? Now wait, how do you know that what Holland was doing was less evil? :-) Why does >the Buffy-izing of _Angel_ need to include all the pointless >navel-gazing in which _Buffy_ indulged in its later years? Remember >back in the day when _Angel_'s message was "Okay, so you've got >personal issues. Big deal, get off your ass and help out"? Man, those >were the days. Or they solved the personal issue, like in Untouched, and moved on. >> Course that leads to going through the motions, touching fire >> and feeling cold, and a lot of Spike sex. >> >> Though I'm gathering it's more likely to be more Eve sex in this >> instance. > >I've only seen Sarah Thompson being Dana Poole, but that's enought to >see why more Eve sex could be a desirable thing. I get the impression >she isn't thrilling the faithful on her acting merits anyway. Haven't seen the problem with the acting, but that's just me I guess. OTOH, ST, MM, and baby oil is a good mix. :-) >> Sadly, there's part of me that would love just a little more Cordelia >> in my viewing life, but I can't blame CC if that's not to be. Joss, the >> lying rat bastard OTOH... > >I hear Bell is still trying to get CC to change her mind. Here's a thought: Flowers, big paycheck, and limo service to and from. Perhaps certain ME writers lying before her to step on as she goes from the limo to her dressing room. >They'll need time to rewrite whatever portion of the episode Cordelia >was supposed to be in. Judging from last season, that's not something >they do well any more. But at least they'll get to blame it all on >Charisma again. So does that mean they're gonna fire her again? :-) Besides, I gather she was in the B part of the story. If they can't rewrite the B part, then there really is no hope for ME. >> Look, I get the Suits wanted Spike, and that the ME staff was pissed >> off at Charisma, but why don't you just admit why things happened? >> Especially when you suck so much at lying. > >Because then it confirms the reality that the suits are running the >show. When Joss went to the meeting bringing lubricants and condoms for the suits use... Joss prefers to believe he's in complete control of everything, >even though that obviously wasn't true even when BtVS was on top of >its game. He was a much better dancer in his youth, though. >Specifically relating to Charisma and Kartheiser, Joss would have to >admit that he screwed up in making Cordelia a higher being and then he >screwed up again trying to undo what he did, and that even Kartheiser >could see Joss never had any idea what to do with Connor. That's what I don't get. Connor wasn't needed. They intentionally added him to the mix. They should have had some idea as to why they wanted him added. Cordy, sure, they screwed up royally a couple of times, and I truly believe they could have written her back in the series. That said, at least I can understand why they'd be forced to cut loose a old time character they've screwed up royally. How the hell they decided to add Connor when they didn't have a clue on how to use him storywise, cause I get the subtext and metaphor bits, is beyond me. It's a lot >easier on Joss' ego to fire CC and VK, claim their stories were at an >end (true at least of Connor, as dumb an ending as it was), and just >pretend it never happened. And it's not like no one believes him, it's >just that anyone with simple deductive reasoning skills doesn't. Look, I've given him the benefit of the doubt on stuff, but nothing this obvious. >> Of course the Suits are all saying that Spike wasn't their idea. > >Only now that Spike hasn't been the ratings draw the suits thought >he'd be. Well, they were up from last season. Granted, they are now in the second slot behind one of the WB's higher rated shows, but still up. And are down to under 30% retention, but still up. And they haven't shown a rerun yet this season, but still up. >> >> And I think Cordy could be turned evil. But again, not >> >> like the crap they were shovelling last season. >> > >> >I don't see how you can think Cordy had enough layers to have the >> >potential to be evil if you don't think she had enough layers to >> >appreciate the results of being Vision Girl beyond anything selfish. >> >> Is this "you" Joss or "you" myself? > >Joss isn't the one who said the only reason Cordy kept the visions was >pride. Oh, so not me, cause I said it was one of many reasons. >> I do think she has layers. I think that those arguing that >> Cordy was tricked by hubris have a decent point, because hubris >> is one of those layers. > >They'd have a decent point if that's how "Birthday" was written, but >it wasn't, hence the screwed up moral of Cordy's story. Amazing how leaving that phone number up there started the screwup. They'd have a >decent point if that's how any of the post-"Birthday" episodes were >written, but they weren't. There was no con job on Cordy. The con job >didn't happen until Joss pulled it on the audience in season four. >That so many bit on it is not surprising; see P. T. Barnum's famous >maxim. You do know that this means AtS will have a circus episode. Other than that, I see your point. >> So there were many reasons for her to accept ascension. >> One of which is probably an overblown sense of worth. Along with >> getting out of town is a great idea instead of getting involved with Angel >> romantically. > >Since the only higher beings we've ever met is the Glitter Twins, I >really don't understand from where people get this idea that being a >higher being is "better" than being a lower being. And if Cordy didn't >want to talk to Angel about having fluffy bunny feelings, all she >needed to do was not talk to Angel about having fluffy bunny feelings. "Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass." >Plus, not to beat a dead horse or anything, but when "Tomorrow" was >written, Cordy wasn't being conned into or running away from anything. Hey, I'm fanwanking as best as I can here to make any sense out of S4! And failing miserably. >> Seeing hubris, overblown sense of self and worth, and other natural >> human failings are in Cordy, I can see her arc allowing for her to >> become evil. It'd take a lot of work, but it can be done. > >But Cordy doesn't have in overblown sense of self-worth. She only >accepted higher-beingness. That's short of the goddessness for which >she qualifies. Oh well, then I'm mistaken. And then there's the company she keeps. Who wouldn't >feel good about themselves when they're surrounded by murderers, >kidnappers, rapists, and liars? They need to bring Fred's family back just to see what real people look like. BTW, are you saying that they ain't good enough for W&H? >> >> >Indiana Jones' daughter is still open >> >> >though. >> >> >> >> While I wish her luck, which gal is supposed to be the >> >> mother? >> > >> >Dunno. Karen Allen gets my vote, but Kate Capshaw is sleeping with the >> >director, so... >> >> Charisma playing Karen Allen's daughter? Not seeing the reality there. > >Karen Allen is 52, Charisma Carpenter is 33. It's possible. Karen Allen can play 40's. Charisma can still play 20's. Besides, isn't Harrison Ford 80? :-) >> OTOH Kate Capshaw having Charisma as a daughter I could see. > >Kate Capshaw is younger than Karen Allen. And Kate has a similar body type to Charisma than Karen does, though facially Karen might have the edge. >> Watching CC in a >> >mediocre episode of _Miss Match_ is bearable. Watching CC in a >> >mediocre episode of _Angel_ I can do by watching "She" again. Which I >> >also won't do. >> >> Not when Rm W A Vw, Expecting, TVT, Billy, and others would have >> more CC and are better episodes. > >But those aren't mediocre episodes. I think that was my point. >It's all about the silver linings. About all we have left. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-14 06:49:33-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031112110303.27944.00000077@mb-m06.aol.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031107124154.13549.00000517@mb-m11.aol.com>... > >> > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >Even so, the theory that it was Cordelia and only Cordelia existed > >well beyond AN. > > Skip lied, and backed down when pushed. There wasn't > any Cordy there. Choir, preaching to the. And yet... > >I gather it exists still. I'd blame the adherents for > >missing the point if it weren't for the fact that ME blurred the point > >into near-invisibility. > > True, it's allowed people to have some strange views > on Cordelius. My impression is those who insist on it having been RealCordy either up to a certain point or a mixture of RealCordy and Jasmine throughout are merely trying to satisfy whatever version of the story that went on in their head, even if it bears little resemblance to what story went on in the next guy's head. That's what happens when the audience is presented with the televised equivalent of an inkblot. And for the record, I acknowledge that the assertion that it was never RealCordy at all is also an interpretation of the inkblot, but I think it's the one that does the least damage to the series and the character, so there it is. > But at least we don't have arguments > about Spike, the non-raping vampire (now with > insta-soul). Give us a couple of shirtless Cordy episodes and the tide would turn, I'm sure. But you forget the standard rule of thumb: Murderers, rapists, and kidnappers are all welcome. Just don't criticize Willow's wardrobe. > >Well, you got more out of it than I did. Then again, my attention was > >already starting to wander, so maybe that's to be expected. > > Well, it was repeating itself, again. It does sound vaguely familiar, like maybe something that was already covered in "Sanctuary." > Granted, sticking through S5, S6, S7 BtVS does reach > that level of insanity, but Angel's only gone -- a season > and two thirds. > > OK, I'm nuts for sticking it out to 100. Well, I watch _Alias_ purely for the fun and eye-candy factors; I don't expect anything more from it. Watching _Angel_ on that basis is okay. Fast food for the brain and all; not everything has to be steak. Expecting anything profound to come from it is likely to result in disappointment. > But hey, the Mexican Wrestling episode didn't suck. Well, this glowing review has turned me completely around. I can't wait for the next episode. > Different level. Getting great satisfaction <> Getting > any satisfaction. Cordy was most definitely on the great > satisfaction level. So you're allowed to like your job a little, but not too much? Hmm. Who gets to decide how much is too much? > If what you were doing on the job was about to cause > your death you would still do it, raise your hands. > > Amazing how few would keep doing what they are > doing if it'd kill them. Cordy was in Birthday. Policemen, firemen, members of the armed forces. Clerks on the midnight shift at convenience stores. Drug dealers. Wesley and Gunn, back when they were fighting the good fight. Buffy, twice. Doyle, before the Skip retcon. Cordy's hardly the first or last person to have a job that put her life at risk. Anyway, the whole 'visions are gonna kill her' thing was solved, so it was no longer an issue. > >I guess not. But if I read LU's thoughts on the last episode > >correctly, I'm not the only one. > > Hey, at least LU isn't rating it with Hush. > > No, I'm not joking. He could rate it with "Hush" as far as I am concerned. > >And how come Angel gets to feel good about doing good when > >all he's currently doing is being less evil than Holland was? > > Now wait, how do you know that what Holland was > doing was less evil? :-) I didn't say Holland was less evil than Angel; Angel hasn't hosted any wine-tasting parties yet. Hosting wine tasting parties are the one sure sign of ultimate evil. Even better than a black hat. No wonder the PTB let Angel off the hook. Well, that, and Angel only locked those lawyers in the cellar 'cause Jasmine wanted him to. > Why does > >the Buffy-izing of _Angel_ need to include all the pointless > >navel-gazing in which _Buffy_ indulged in its later years? Remember > >back in the day when _Angel_'s message was "Okay, so you've got > >personal issues. Big deal, get off your ass and help out"? Man, those > >were the days. > > Or they solved the personal issue, like in Untouched, > and moved on. If the personal issue was solved, one imagines there would be less navel gazing rather than more. > >I've only seen Sarah Thompson being Dana Poole, but that's enough to > >see why more Eve sex could be a desirable thing. I get the impression > >she isn't thrilling the faithful on her acting merits anyway. > > Haven't seen the problem with the acting, but that's just > me I guess. She did okay as Dana Poole, but there wasn't much more than 'act like a teenage 'ho a teacher would be willing to lose his license over' asked of her in the role either. > OTOH, ST, MM, and baby oil is a good mix. :-) Seen the MM pics from X-Pose? Yummy. > >I hear Bell is still trying to get CC to change her mind. > > Here's a thought: Flowers, big paycheck, and limo > service to and from. On-set day care, a decent script... Damn, a deal-breaker right there. > Perhaps certain ME writers lying before her to step > on as she goes from the limo to her dressing room. Minear isn't on staff any more. > >They'll need time to rewrite whatever portion of the episode Cordelia > >was supposed to be in. Judging from last season, that's not something > >they do well any more. But at least they'll get to blame it all on > >Charisma again. > > So does that mean they're gonna fire her again? :-) At the very least, you can rest assured that Joss and his sycophants will passive-aggressive their way to making it clear that she thwarted Joss' genius once again. Of course, as that puts CC in some pretty good company, I don't think that's a career ending problem. Darren Starr seems to like her. > Besides, I gather she was in the B part of the story. If > they can't rewrite the B part, then there really is no hope > for ME. But they'll have to find some other way to prove what they wrote really wasn't what they meant, and that's not something ME has done exceedingly well thus far. > >Specifically relating to Charisma and Kartheiser, Joss would have to > >admit that he screwed up in making Cordelia a higher being and then he > >screwed up again trying to undo what he did, and that even Kartheiser > >could see Joss never had any idea what to do with Connor. > > That's what I don't get. Connor wasn't needed. > They intentionally added him to the mix. They should have > had some idea as to why they wanted him added. But wouldn't it be cool if Darla got knocked up? > Cordy, sure, they screwed up royally a couple of > times, and I truly believe they could have written > her back in the series. That said, at least I can understand > why they'd be forced to cut loose a old time character they've > screwed up royally. How the hell they decided to add > Connor when they didn't have a clue on how to use > him storywise, cause I get the subtext and metaphor > bits, is beyond me. I think VK just had the misfortune of being cast in the first of Joss' 'wouldn't it be cool if...' storylines. Micky nailed this one too. As she is wont to do, naturally. Up to the point Connor got dragged off to Quartoth, they had a plan. That plan seemed to be get Connor dragged off to Quortoth even if it meant turning Wesley into a schmuck, but it was a plan. Joss' big mistake was in bringing Connor back and going out of his way to dismiss any real conflict that should have existed between Angel and Connor, instead making secondary issues like Holtz's manufactured death or a contrived, implausible issue like ConCord the basis of their disagreements. The more bizarre thing is I think we're supposed to feel bad for Angel, but Connor never anything more than a stranger to Angel; biology does not a father make. ME could have done everything they did with Connor without introducing the complications to the vampire mythology, complications which have yet to be satisfactorily explained, I might add. (No, just because Joss had an inveterate liar co-opt the "Owed Life" fanwank doesn't mean I'm satisfied with the explanation.) What it doesn't explain is why Joss kept Dawn, Xander, Anya, and Giles hanging around for no readily apparent reason, but fired CC and VK. > >> Of course the Suits are all saying that Spike wasn't their idea. > > > >Only now that Spike hasn't been the ratings draw the suits thought > >he'd be. > > Well, they were up from last season. Granted, they > are now in the second slot behind one of the WB's higher > rated shows, but still up. And are down to under 30% > retention, but still up. And they haven't shown a rerun > yet this season, but still up. Oh. I saw a graph that pretty much showed _Angel_'s and _Charmed_'s ratings on a downward slide. (Damn that Holly Marie Combs, ruining the Great Master Plan for _Charmed_ with an unapproved pregnancy. Fire her, I say!) I'd also heard the ratings weren't any better than season three's ratings in any event, so Spike wasn't the ratings juggernaut the WB thought he'd be. > >Joss isn't the one who said the only reason Cordy kept the visions was > >pride. > > Oh, so not me, cause I said it was one of many reasons. Again, a hearty hmm. > >They'd have a decent point if that's how "Birthday" was written, but > >it wasn't, hence the screwed up moral of Cordy's story. > > Amazing how leaving that phone number up there > started the screwup. Yes. After two years of feeling like she left the oven on, one of StarCordy's whims pays off. Probably didn't hurt that it was the one time one of Cordy's visions left a permanent mark either. (Psst: address, not phone number.) > >That so many bit on it is not surprising; see P. T. Barnum's famous > >maxim. > > You do know that this means AtS will have a circus episode. Well, hopefully it won't suck. > >And if Cordy didn't > >want to talk to Angel about having fluffy bunny feelings, all she > >needed to do was not talk to Angel about having fluffy bunny feelings. > > "Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass." Cordy was Cleodelia, Queen of Denial. If she didn't want to have fluffy bunny feelings for Angel, she would have willed herself to not have fluffy bunny feelings for Angel. Yeah, the wall would have come down eventually, but Cordy running away isn't Cordy. > >Plus, not to beat a dead horse or anything, but when "Tomorrow" was > >written, Cordy wasn't being conned into or running away from anything. > > Hey, I'm fanwanking as best as I can here to make > any sense out of S4! > > And failing miserably. Silk purse, sow's ear. The math doesn't work. > >But Cordy doesn't have in overblown sense of self-worth. She only > >accepted higher-beingness. > That's short of the goddessness for which > >she qualifies. > > Oh well, then I'm mistaken. Well, duh. > And then there's the company she keeps. Who wouldn't > >feel good about themselves when they're surrounded by murderers, > >kidnappers, rapists, and liars? > > They need to bring Fred's family back just to see > what real people look like. And to bring Fred back to Texas. Or give her a book... > BTW, are you saying that they ain't good enough > for W&H? They're all more evil than Lilah anyway. > Besides, isn't Harrison Ford 80? :-) In his sixties anyway. But hey, Sean Connery played Indiana's father and he's only twelve years older than Harrison Ford. > >Kate Capshaw is younger than Karen Allen. > > And Kate has a similar body type to Charisma than Karen > does, though facially Karen might have the edge. Well, KA and CC have the naturally dark complexion thing going, and there are some other superficial resemblances. I just think Capshaw would be better if, for example, Caulfield ended up in the role. > >> Not when Rm W A Vw, Expecting, TVT, Billy, and others would have > >> more CC and are better episodes. > > > >But those aren't mediocre episodes. > > I think that was my point. Well, it undercut my point about rewatching a mediocre episode. Stop that, or we'll give Little back. > >It's all about the silver linings. > > About all we have left. That and robots. Terry

2003-11-14 17:12:38+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


In article <26b7e9d4.0311140649.630997f6@posting.google.com>, tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031112110303.27944.00000077@mb-m06.aol.com>... > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031107124154.13549.00000517@mb-m11.aol.com>... >> >> >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >Even so, the theory that it was Cordelia and only Cordelia existed >> >well beyond AN. >> >> Skip lied, and backed down when pushed. There wasn't >> any Cordy there. > >Choir, preaching to the. And yet... I know. I'm being dragged into an argument. Gee, Skip and Cordmine wouldn't lie to give them an edge so Angel might hesitate before killing Cordy's body if Cordy was safe up on high. No, they'd never lie to gain an advantage. >> >I gather it exists still. I'd blame the adherents for >> >missing the point if it weren't for the fact that ME blurred the point >> >into near-invisibility. >> >> True, it's allowed people to have some strange views >> on Cordelius. > >My impression is those who insist on it having been RealCordy either >up to a certain point or a mixture of RealCordy and Jasmine throughout >are merely trying to satisfy whatever version of the story that went >on in their head, even if it bears little resemblance to what story >went on in the next guy's head. Sadly, I'm not sure we can ever figure out what was in the writing staff's head. Though a drug test might help. :-) That's what happens when the audience >is presented with the televised equivalent of an inkblot. And for the >record, I acknowledge that the assertion that it was never RealCordy >at all is also an interpretation of the inkblot, but I think it's the >one that does the least damage to the series and the character, so >there it is. True enough. It solved Micky's dilemma about bringing back Cordy destroying the shows meaning. You can have it that TPTB wanted Jasmine gone and Cordy to replace her. That now Cordy's TPTB who interfaces with the goings on with Earth. Who now is pulling Angel's strings. She did go to a higher purpose. That doing good is rewarded both internally and even on occassional externally. That redemption is still a possibility. That good is good, evil is evil and should be fought, not that good is oppressive and involuntary and evil corrupting and oppressive. OTOH, good can manipulate at times, just as TPTB played Jasmine, moreso than Jasmine and Skip played Cordy. You can't make it from Cordy being trapped inside, suckered all the way around, being used and abused. That doing good is evil and evil is good. That said, Cordy would be paying a price for her ascension. That price would be Angel. And a much lesser waredrobe. See, I can fanwank stuff to fix S4, but not if Cordy's along for the ride. It can only be fanwanked with her still being up above, and her body is just lying in a coma. >> But at least we don't have arguments >> about Spike, the non-raping vampire (now with >> insta-soul). > >Give us a couple of shirtless Cordy episodes and the tide would turn, >I'm sure. And yet, I'm willing to risk that. But you forget the standard rule of thumb: Murderers, >rapists, and kidnappers are all welcome. Just don't criticize Willow's >wardrobe. Really. >> But hey, the Mexican Wrestling episode didn't suck. > >Well, this glowing review has turned me completely around. I can't >wait for the next episode. It didn't suck either. But it was a copout at the end. >> Different level. Getting great satisfaction <> Getting >> any satisfaction. Cordy was most definitely on the great >> satisfaction level. > >So you're allowed to like your job a little, but not too much? Hmm. >Who gets to decide how much is too much? Well, I do of course. >> If what you were doing on the job was about to cause >> your death you would still do it, raise your hands. >> >> Amazing how few would keep doing what they are >> doing if it'd kill them. Cordy was in Birthday. > >Cordy's hardly the first or last person to have a job that put her >life at risk. No, it was certainty of death. Others risk a possibility of death. Anyway, the whole 'visions are gonna kill her' thing was >solved, so it was no longer an issue. In Birthday, that had that whole address underneath thang going on. > Well, that, and Angel only locked >those lawyers in the cellar 'cause Jasmine wanted him to. Well, no, they did try to get Angel away from there, Jasmine or TPTB. >> Why does >> >the Buffy-izing of _Angel_ need to include all the pointless >> >navel-gazing in which _Buffy_ indulged in its later years? Remember >> >back in the day when _Angel_'s message was "Okay, so you've got >> >personal issues. Big deal, get off your ass and help out"? Man, those >> >were the days. >> >> Or they solved the personal issue, like in Untouched, >> and moved on. > >If the personal issue was solved, one imagines there would be less >navel gazing rather than more. Exactly. >> OTOH, ST, MM, and baby oil is a good mix. :-) > >Seen the MM pics from X-Pose? Yummy. And the link you included is where? >> >Specifically relating to Charisma and Kartheiser, Joss would have to >> >admit that he screwed up in making Cordelia a higher being and then he >> >screwed up again trying to undo what he did, and that even Kartheiser >> >could see Joss never had any idea what to do with Connor. >> >> That's what I don't get. Connor wasn't needed. >> They intentionally added him to the mix. They should have >> had some idea as to why they wanted him added. > >But wouldn't it be cool if Darla got knocked up? Only if I was doing the knocking. :-) Really, the "wouldn't it be cool if" bit can work as long as the writers understand how to execute them. See, you, I, and this whole NG can come up with a whole bunch of "wouldn't it be cool if" stuff. That doesn't make me a successful writer. Professional writers are able to take "wouldn't it be cool if" and execute it. Cutting some "wibci" stuff when it conflicted, adding in the dull boring story, plot, theme, and structure as needed. That's why they're professional writers and some of us just are wacky NG posters. They're supposed to be able to execute it in a story! So Darla getting knocked up, Connor coming aboard isn't the problem. It's that they didn't do anything all that worthwhile storywise. And the S4 Cordelia arc should be studied for all TV writers to see what not to do. >> How the hell they decided to add >> Connor when they didn't have a clue on how to use >> him storywise, cause I get the subtext and metaphor >> bits, is beyond me. > >I think VK just had the misfortune of being cast in the first of Joss' >'wouldn't it be cool if...' storylines. Micky nailed this one too. As >she is wont to do, naturally. Up to the point Connor got dragged off >to Quartoth, they had a plan. That plan seemed to be get Connor >dragged off to Quortoth even if it meant turning Wesley into a >schmuck, but it was a plan. "A plan. Good. Custer had a plan." You probably wouldn't like the resolution portion of the last episode. Joss' big mistake was in bringing Connor >back and going out of his way to dismiss any real conflict that should >have existed between Angel and Connor, instead making secondary issues >like Holtz's manufactured death or a contrived, implausible issue like >ConCord the basis of their disagreements. The more bizarre thing is I >think we're supposed to feel bad for Angel, but Connor never anything >more than a stranger to Angel; biology does not a father make. Worse, I think we were supposed to feel something for Connor, while almost all the viewers were negative towards him. Oh well, we should have Connor back soon, cause the mindwipe keeps being brought up again and again. >What it doesn't explain is why Joss kept Dawn, Xander, Anya, and Giles >hanging around for no readily apparent reason, but fired CC and VK. Hey, maybe he tried to learn something from those experiences. Though I liked what he did with ASH and Giles. He was only stuck around for a few episodes that he didn't fit in verses the tonnes he was in S4/S5. A deal like that should have been struck with Charisma. >> >> Of course the Suits are all saying that Spike wasn't their idea. >> > >> >Only now that Spike hasn't been the ratings draw the suits thought >> >he'd be. >> >> Well, they were up from last season. Granted, they >> are now in the second slot behind one of the WB's higher >> rated shows, but still up. And are down to under 30% >> retention, but still up. And they haven't shown a rerun >> yet this season, but still up. > >Oh. I saw a graph that pretty much showed _Angel_'s and _Charmed_'s >ratings on a downward slide. Yeah, from the start of this season. But they are up from a year ago. Not retaining that much better than the flotsum that was behind Smallville last season, but better. So the season looks safe. Next season... > I'd also heard the ratings weren't any better than season >three's ratings in any event, so Spike wasn't the ratings juggernaut >the WB thought he'd be. Oh, they were expecting an increase from AtS better ratings? Someone's CYAing over this, I'm sure. >> >They'd have a decent point if that's how "Birthday" was written, but >> >it wasn't, hence the screwed up moral of Cordy's story. >> >> Amazing how leaving that phone number up there >> started the screwup. > >Yes. After two years of feeling like she left the oven on, one of >StarCordy's whims pays off. Probably didn't hurt that it was the one >time one of Cordy's visions left a permanent mark either. Which shouldn't have been there. >(Psst: address, not phone number.) Hey, I'm as accurate as ME is. >> >That so many bit on it is not surprising; see P. T. Barnum's famous >> >maxim. >> >> You do know that this means AtS will have a circus episode. > >Well, hopefully it won't suck. On their budget? Sure will. >> >And if Cordy didn't >> >want to talk to Angel about having fluffy bunny feelings, all she >> >needed to do was not talk to Angel about having fluffy bunny feelings. >> >> "Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass." > >Cordy was Cleodelia, Queen of Denial. If she didn't want to have >fluffy bunny feelings for Angel, she would have willed herself to not >have fluffy bunny feelings for Angel. She had been. Groo broke the walls down. Yeah, the wall would have come >down eventually, but Cordy running away isn't Cordy. But she wasn't running away. She was ascending. See the difference? (OK, there isn't one, but to Ceodelia she could deny that there was.) >> >Plus, not to beat a dead horse or anything, but when "Tomorrow" was >> >written, Cordy wasn't being conned into or running away from anything. >> >> Hey, I'm fanwanking as best as I can here to make >> any sense out of S4! >> >> And failing miserably. > >Silk purse, sow's ear. The math doesn't work. Silk purse, sow's shit, you mean. And LU wonders why we're left to fanwanking. >> >But Cordy doesn't have in overblown sense of self-worth. She only >> >accepted higher-beingness. >> That's short of the goddessness for which >> >she qualifies. >> >> Oh well, then I'm mistaken. > >Well, duh. No <Grady Little> need <Grady Little> to <Grady Little> rub <Grady Little> it <Grady Little> in. BTW, do you read "Get Fuzzy" in the comic strips? "Hi, my name is Rob and I'm a Boston Red Sox fan" "Welcome Rob." >> Besides, isn't Harrison Ford 80? :-) > >In his sixties anyway. But hey, Sean Connery played Indiana's father >and he's only twelve years older than Harrison Ford. A 12 year old Sean Connery knocking some woman up? Hey, that's at least possible. >> >Kate Capshaw is younger than Karen Allen. >> >> And Kate has a similar body type to Charisma than Karen >> does, though facially Karen might have the edge. > >Well, KA and CC have the naturally dark complexion thing going, and >there are some other superficial resemblances. Guess CC's character took after Indy's mom on the body front. I just think Capshaw >would be better if, for example, Caulfield ended up in the role. That'd work too. >> >It's all about the silver linings. >> >> About all we have left. > >That and robots. Ninja Robot! Cause wouldn't it be cool if... Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-17 14:09:53-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031114121238.00545.00002315@mb-m02.aol.com>... > In article <26b7e9d4.0311140649.630997f6@posting.google.com>, > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031112110303.27944.00000077@mb-m06.aol.com>... > > > >> Skip lied, and backed down when pushed. There wasn't > >> any Cordy there. > > > >Choir, preaching to the. And yet... > > I know. I'm being dragged into an argument. Gee, Skip and > Cordmine wouldn't lie to give them an edge so Angel might > hesitate before killing Cordy's body if Cordy was safe up on > high. No, they'd never lie to gain an advantage. Yeah, and Jasmine wouldn't lie even though she had lied to give Connor a lie he could believe in. They should have had Connor say he knew Jasmine was lying but he chose to believe it anyway. Wait... There's also this 'established facts' thing, as in LU's assertion that it was established that it was RealCordy until the memory restoration spell. Fine, if that's what folks want to believe, but it was established by the characters saying it was so with no more evidence for it being true than Angel's assertion it wasn't Cordelia at all. Pick which thing which character said and run with it. Since none of them thought anything of Cordy screwing Connor in the first place, obviously their evaluation of whether or not it was ever RealCordy is more suspect than mine. (Not that I'm picking on LU. It's just that in skimming the news group, his comments are what I see.) That's ignoring it was never established that AmnesiaCordy was RealCordy to begin with. AmnesiaCordy was acting as erratically before the spell as she was after, and certainly AmnesiaCordy made a lot of decisions RealCordy never would have, like staying in that trashed-out, clearly far-less-safe-than-the-Hyperion-loft in the first place. Anyway, like I said, whatever folks think happened last year all amounts to which character a viewer choses to believe because there was never any independent confirmation of what anyone said, be it Angel's claim that Jasmine was making it all up as she went along or Skip's claim that Jasmine had a master plan. That said, all the circumstantial evidence, such as the impossibility of Jasmine being the child of two Caucasians or Skip's claim that they were all without the free will to avoid being a part of Jasmine's master plan, skews more towards Skip and Jasmine were lying than it does to any other conclusion. It's just too bad I have no confidence that Joss gets it. Lord knows a large part of the audience doesn't. Or maybe a large part of the audience just doesn't care enough to try to get it. > Sadly, I'm not sure we can ever figure out what was in the writing > staff's head. Though a drug test might help. :-) Unless they were eating poppy seed bagels. > You can't make it from Cordy being trapped inside, suckered all > the way around, being used and abused. That doing good is evil > and evil is good. It's also pretty much nothing more than torturing a character for no better reason than to torture the character since it adds nothing to the character save an opportunity for more pointless navel gazing. One that has been tossed aside in favor of "Other Considerations" in any case. Not that I'd suggest Joss isn't capable of writing a story that tortures a character for no better reason than to torture the character. Especially if the character in question is Cordy, she and Charisma not being terribly high on his give-a-damn list. But if there's a comparison to Angel/Angelus to be made, RealCordy should have been 'up there' looking down on what her soulless doppelganger was doing and be helpless to intervene. One hopes that Joss at least intended at some stage to have Cordy's story have a point anyway. > That said, Cordy would be paying a price for her ascension. That > price would be Angel. And, you know, lots and lots of downtime to be bored in. > And a much lesser waredrobe. [homer]Arrrgh, less wardrobe...[/homer] Wait! Hey, that's someone's mother you're talking about there! > See, I can fanwank stuff to fix S4, but not if Cordy's along for the ride. > It can only be fanwanked with her still being up above, and her body > is just lying in a coma. Sure; me too. Jasmine snagged some Cordy DNA back in "Birthday" and grabbed her chance to put it to good use after she saw that Angel had been reduced to a slot machine handle-pulling, no-destiny-having zombie. She gets back to the Hyperion and finds out Angel is back too, so it's on with the amnesia charade. She acted like she wants her memories back, but avoided the people who could help her achieve that while working on turning Connor into her little idiot-slave. Then comes the memory spell, which Jasmine consents to because she was sure wouldn't work on her, Cordy already being 'up there' with her memories and all. But oh, no, she gets Cordy's memories before she can smash the bottle, including the memory of what Xander and Willow thought she of her in high school. Once Cordy's memories were Jasmine's, she had to stop with the amnesia thing and up the ante to keep Angel from figuring out it wasn't really Cordy, so comes the Connor-boffing, Chuckles' little reign of boredom, Angelus, and so on. Then CC had to leave, so we were blessedly saved from further stupidity. Well, further stupidity involving Cordelia anyway. Bottom line, the above fanwank took me five minutes to come up with and makes far more sense than the "sometimes it was Cordy, sometimes it wasn't" theory. It's also seems to be five minutes more than Joss and company devoted to thinking about the arc. > >> But at least we don't have arguments > >> about Spike, the non-raping vampire (now with > >> insta-soul). > > > >Give us a couple of shirtless Cordy episodes and the tide would turn, > >I'm sure. > > And yet, I'm willing to risk that. Well, if Darren Star signs her up for his new HBO series, you could get lucky. Not that lucky, but lucky. > But you forget the standard rule of thumb: Murderers, > >rapists, and kidnappers are all welcome. Just don't criticize Willow's > >wardrobe. > > Really. Probably should be wishing it had been RealCordy last season. That way she would now be a mass-murderer and thus welcome at the kewl kids table. > >Well, this glowing review has turned me completely around. I can't > >wait for the next episode. > > It didn't suck either. But it was a copout at the end. With lots of AD, it'd be hard to see how it could suck. Even GWBG didn't suck as such. I'm sure the MEanies did their best though. > >So you're allowed to like your job a little, but not too much? Hmm. > >Who gets to decide how much is too much? > > Well, I do of course. Ah. That clears things up nicely. > >Cordy's hardly the first or last person to have a job that put her > >life at risk. > > No, it was certainty of death. Others risk a possibility of > death. Cordy didn't die, thus no certainty of her death either. > > Well, that, and Angel only locked > >those lawyers in the cellar 'cause Jasmine wanted him to. > > Well, no, they did try to get Angel away from there, Jasmine or TPTB. What? Are you saying Angel *did* have the free will to not follow Jasmine's plan? But that would mean Skip lied! > >Seen the MM pics from X-Pose? Yummy. > > And the link you included is where? You missed it? Sucks to be you. ;) Okay, just this once: <http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288650515> > >But wouldn't it be cool if Darla got knocked up? > > Only if I was doing the knocking. :-) I suspect Timmy'd be mad at you for sleeping with his girlfriend. Not JB, Darla. > Professional writers are able to take "wouldn't it be cool if" and > execute it. Cutting some "wibci" stuff when it conflicted, adding > in the dull boring story, plot, theme, and structure as needed. > That's why they're professional writers and some of us just are > wacky NG posters. They're supposed to be able to execute it > in a story! It requires a discipline Joss and Timmy (and Marti) lack though. Once a writer decides to go down the WIBCI road, he needs to go all the way down the road and see where it ends up *before* he makes a commitment to the WIBCI story. Otherwise you end up with actors getting fired because the writer no longer knows how to or is unable or unwilling to resolve the WIBCIness. > So Darla getting knocked up, Connor coming aboard isn't the > problem. It's that they didn't do anything all that worthwhile > storywise. Pretty much my belief. That said, I will always maintain _Angel_ started sucking the moment they showed us the beach ball under JB's sweater. > And the S4 Cordelia arc should be studied for all TV writers > to see what not to do. As a teacher of mine once said, "Nothing is useless. At the very least, it can serve as a bad example." > >Up to the point Connor got dragged off > >to Quartoth, they had a plan. That plan seemed to be get Connor > >dragged off to Quortoth even if it meant turning Wesley into a > >schmuck, but it was a plan. > > "A plan. Good. Custer had a plan." A fine example. "Stripes" was a good movie for the first half, but then came a second half chock-full of 'wouldn't it be cool if...' > You probably wouldn't like the resolution portion of the last > episode. "Ted" redux? No, not at all. But hey, if those who think they learned something about Wesley and his father are happy, who am I to rain on that parade? > >The more bizarre thing is I > >think we're supposed to feel bad for Angel, but Connor never anything > >more than a stranger to Angel; biology does not a father make. > > Worse, I think we were supposed to feel something for Connor, while > almost all the viewers were negative towards him. I suppose. It's really hard for me to think we're supposed to feel bad for Connor though, being as Joss worked so hard to make everything Connor's fault. Preemptive statement for when his own kid writes the tell-all book, perhaps? > Oh well, we should have Connor back soon, cause the mindwipe > keeps being brought up again and again. Yes. Makes you wonder W(hy)TF they did the mindwipe in the first place. Is everyone going to realize what happened and leave Angel alone at W&H? 'Cause been there, done that. Not to mention the contracts that extend beyond death. Anyway, I'm just hoping Charisma had the presence of mind to insist Connor's return not be during her return episode. > >What it doesn't explain is why Joss kept Dawn, Xander, Anya, and Giles > >hanging around for no readily apparent reason, but fired CC and VK. > > Hey, maybe he tried to learn something from those experiences. Yeah, 'cause Joss is just the kind of person who'd acknowledge he doesn't know everything. Oh, he might say it, but he doesn't believe it. > Though I liked what he did with ASH and Giles. He was only stuck > around for a few episodes that he didn't fit in verses the tonnes he > was in S4/S5. A deal like that should have been struck with > Charisma. I fear a deal like 'Run Charisma, run!' was better for all concerned. You could still get that recurring role though. Apparently Bell told CC that this (IMO ill-advised) 100th episode appearance would be left open-ended should she and they want to work together again. (Great, more non-answers to splatter onto the inkblot.) I gather Bell also took the time to tell her that Joss isn't involved with the day-to-day goings-on at _Angel_ either. Wonder why he did that? > >Oh. I saw a graph that pretty much showed _Angel_'s and _Charmed_'s > >ratings on a downward slide. > > Yeah, from the start of this season. But they are up from a year ago. Most shows don't keep the same numbers for the whole season. Probably why sweeps is a month or so after the season starts. > Not retaining that much better than the flotsum that was behind > Smallville last season, but better. So the season looks safe. Yeah, but the WB has a hole after _Charmed_ to fill. > Next season... The WB renewed _Angel_ between S3 and S4 without demanding Joss scrap the story and write a new one for Spike. I mean, for Angel. If _Angel_ keeps S3-level ratings, I wouldn't think it'd be just the ratings that got it cancelled. No one yet seems to have asked Boreanaz if he wants to come back next season though, and I still think the Denisof fans need to get writing if they don't want his upcoming two episode vacation to become a permanent vacation. The three people who like Gunn better worry too. He's as bound to the whole W&H fiasco as Cordy ended up being to the Connor fiasco. > > I'd also heard the ratings weren't any better than season > >three's ratings in any event, so Spike wasn't the ratings juggernaut > >the WB thought he'd be. > > Oh, they were expecting an increase from AtS better ratings? As I understand, yes, the WB expected that bringing Spike over to _Angel_ would also bring the 75% of the _Buffy_ audience who claimed to not watch _Angel_. And who knows, it may have done so, but it was counter-balanced by the 75% of the _Angel_ viewers who quit watching whatever show is currently claiming to be _Angel_. > Someone's CYAing over this, I'm sure. A network executive being less than candid? Say it ain't so! > >Yes. After two years of feeling like she left the oven on, one of > >StarCordy's whims pays off. Probably didn't hurt that it was the one > >time one of Cordy's visions left a permanent mark either. > > Which shouldn't have been there. "That which is done cannot be undone." > >(Psst: address, not phone number.) > > Hey, I'm as accurate as ME is. Damn it man, set a goal that can't be reached by a three year-old! > >Cordy was Cleodelia, Queen of Denial. If she didn't want to have > >fluffy bunny feelings for Angel, she would have willed herself to not > >have fluffy bunny feelings for Angel. > > She had been. Groo broke the walls down. Yeah? ISTM she had to talk herself into thinking she did have fluffy bunny feelings for Angel. I was more convinced by her claim that she might love Xander 'cause he grows on you like a Chia pet. > Yeah, the wall would have come > >down eventually, but Cordy running away isn't Cordy. > > But she wasn't running away. She was ascending. See > the difference? (OK, there isn't one, but to Ceodelia she > could deny that there was.) Denying her denial of the denied thing? Hmm... > >Silk purse, sow's ear. The math doesn't work. > > Silk purse, sow's shit, you mean. Well, in this case, you can have the one-up. > And LU wonders why we're left to fanwanking. I'm idly wondering why we're fanwanking and he's delivering sharp, insightful commentary on what happened last season, but not enough to get entangled. > No <Grady Little> need <Grady Little> to <Grady Little> rub <Grady Little> > it <Grady Little> in. Who or what is this Grady Little to which you refer? > BTW, do you read "Get Fuzzy" in the comic strips? I can honestly say I've never heard of this strip... > "Hi, my name is Rob and I'm a Boston Red Sox fan" > "Welcome Rob." ...but I can sympathize with the concept. I can't tell you how many people I know get all jazzed up when the Sox make a run at the playoffs, or even worse, make it to the Series. Talk about expecting the different results from the same actions. Everyone I know must be insane. Which isn't totally out of the question. > A 12 year old Sean Connery knocking some woman up? > > Hey, that's at least possible. Well, yeah. One of the things that seperate men from women. > >Well, KA and CC have the naturally dark complexion thing going, and > >there are some other superficial resemblances. > > Guess CC's character took after Indy's mom on the body front. Oh, I'd say CC is a work of art in her own right. > >That and robots. > > Ninja Robot! Cause wouldn't it be cool if... So did Willow swing by to pick up some parts? Terry

2003-11-18 14:22:43+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


In article <26b7e9d4.0311171409.799efabc@posting.google.com>, tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031114121238.00545.00002315@mb-m02.aol.com>... >> In article <26b7e9d4.0311140649.630997f6@posting.google.com>, >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031112110303.27944.00000077@mb-m06.aol.com>... >> > >> >> Skip lied, and backed down when pushed. There wasn't >> >> any Cordy there. >> > >> >Choir, preaching to the. And yet... >> >> I know. I'm being dragged into an argument. Gee, Skip and >> Cordmine wouldn't lie to give them an edge so Angel might >> hesitate before killing Cordy's body if Cordy was safe up on >> high. No, they'd never lie to gain an advantage. > >Yeah, and Jasmine wouldn't lie even though she had lied to give Connor >a lie he could believe in. They should have had Connor say he knew >Jasmine was lying but he chose to believe it anyway. > >Wait... I know. >There's also this 'established facts' thing, as in LU's assertion that >it was established that it was RealCordy until the memory restoration >spell. Fine, if that's what folks want to believe, but it was >established by the characters saying it was so with no more evidence >for it being true than Angel's assertion it wasn't Cordelia at all. And Angel knows Cordy better than they do. >(Not that I'm picking on LU. It's just that in skimming the news >group, his comments are what I see.) Naw, pick on LU. He deserves it. :-) >Anyway, like I said, whatever folks think happened last year all >amounts to which character a viewer choses to believe because there >was never any independent confirmation of what anyone said, be it >Angel's claim that Jasmine was making it all up as she went along or >Skip's claim that Jasmine had a master plan. Skip's claims sound more like some of my rants, and seeing how I'm historically wrong... :-) That said, all the >circumstantial evidence, such as the impossibility of Jasmine being >the child of two Caucasians You know, The Beast had a darker complexion than Connor. "Give momma some sugar." or Skip's claim that they were all without >the free will to avoid being a part of Jasmine's master plan, skews >more towards Skip and Jasmine were lying than it does to any other >conclusion. It's just too bad I have no confidence that Joss gets it. >Lord knows a large part of the audience doesn't. Or maybe a large part >of the audience just doesn't care enough to try to get it. > >> Sadly, I'm not sure we can ever figure out what was in the writing >> staff's head. Though a drug test might help. :-) > >Unless they were eating poppy seed bagels. Suuuuure. That's why it wouldn't work. Suuuuure. >One hopes that Joss at least >intended at some stage to have Cordy's story have a point anyway. Granted hope springs eternal, but some hopes are stillborn. >> That said, Cordy would be paying a price for her ascension. That >> price would be Angel. > >And, you know, lots and lots of downtime to be bored in. That too. Though I'd figure Cordy would get to do something sooner or latter. Granted TPTB ain't the swiftest thinkers, but I'd figure she'd get some work by now. >> And a much lesser waredrobe. > >[homer]Arrrgh, less wardrobe...[/homer] > >Wait! Hey, that's someone's mother you're talking about there! Well since Jasmine was an abortion... >> See, I can fanwank stuff to fix S4, but not if Cordy's along for the ride. >> It can only be fanwanked with her still being up above, and her body >> is just lying in a coma. > >Sure; me too. Jasmine snagged some Cordy DNA back in "Birthday" and >grabbed her chance to put it to good use after she saw that Angel had >been reduced to a slot machine handle-pulling, no-destiny-having >zombie. She gets back to the Hyperion and finds out Angel is back too, >so it's on with the amnesia charade. She acted like she wants her >memories back, but avoided the people who could help her achieve that >while working on turning Connor into her little idiot-slave. Then >comes the memory spell, which Jasmine consents to because she was sure >wouldn't work on her, Cordy already being 'up there' with her memories >and all. But oh, no, she gets Cordy's memories before she can smash >the bottle, including the memory of what Xander and Willow thought she >of her in high school. Once Cordy's memories were Jasmine's, she had >to stop with the amnesia thing and up the ante to keep Angel from >figuring out it wasn't really Cordy, so comes the Connor-boffing, >Chuckles' little reign of boredom, Angelus, and so on. Then CC had to >leave, so we were blessedly saved from further stupidity. Well, >further stupidity involving Cordelia anyway. Hopefully whoever is doing Ep 100 will at least think about it. Which would make them a rarity. >Bottom line, the above fanwank took me five minutes to come up with >and makes far more sense than the "sometimes it was Cordy, sometimes >it wasn't" theory. It's also seems to be five minutes more than Joss >and company devoted to thinking about the arc. I have it on good authority that it was four minutes and 59 seconds more. Though that one second of thought was done by Mere in passing. >> >> But at least we don't have arguments >> >> about Spike, the non-raping vampire (now with >> >> insta-soul). >> > >> >Give us a couple of shirtless Cordy episodes and the tide would turn, >> >I'm sure. >> >> And yet, I'm willing to risk that. > >Well, if Darren Star signs her up for his new HBO series, you could >get lucky. Not that lucky, but lucky. At this point in my life, that's all the lucky I'd be getting anyhow. >> >Well, this glowing review has turned me completely around. I can't >> >wait for the next episode. >> >> It didn't suck either. But it was a copout at the end. > >With lots of AD, it'd be hard to see how it could suck. Even GWBG >didn't suck as such. I'm sure the MEanies did their best though. Though it probably made them blue, which would make them Blue ME... oh, I can't do it! "We all live in a Yellow Submarine. A Yellow Submarine. A Yellow Submarine." >> >So you're allowed to like your job a little, but not too much? Hmm. >> >Who gets to decide how much is too much? >> >> Well, I do of course. > >Ah. That clears things up nicely. Just build me a few nice alters and places of worship in my name, is all I ask. >> > Well, that, and Angel only locked >> >those lawyers in the cellar 'cause Jasmine wanted him to. >> >> Well, no, they did try to get Angel away from there, Jasmine or TPTB. > >What? Are you saying Angel *did* have the free will to not follow >Jasmine's plan? But that would mean Skip lied! No, really? Those wacky demons. Gotta love them. >> >Seen the MM pics from X-Pose? Yummy. >> >> And the link you included is where? > >You missed it? Sucks to be you. ;) > >Okay, just this once: ><http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288650515> Done, downloaded, and drooled. >> >But wouldn't it be cool if Darla got knocked up? >> >> Only if I was doing the knocking. :-) > >I suspect Timmy'd be mad at you for sleeping with his girlfriend. Not >JB, Darla. Yeah! Well Darla's a slut. (No, not JB, Darla.) I mean, with David Hines? Ewwwwww. >> Professional writers are able to take "wouldn't it be cool if" and >> execute it. Cutting some "wibci" stuff when it conflicted, adding >> in the dull boring story, plot, theme, and structure as needed. >> That's why they're professional writers and some of us just are >> wacky NG posters. They're supposed to be able to execute it >> in a story! > >It requires a discipline Joss and Timmy (and Marti) lack though. Once >a writer decides to go down the WIBCI road, he needs to go all the way >down the road and see where it ends up *before* he makes a commitment >to the WIBCI story. Otherwise you end up with actors getting fired >because the writer no longer knows how to or is unable or unwilling to >resolve the WIBCIness. > >> So Darla getting knocked up, Connor coming aboard isn't the >> problem. It's that they didn't do anything all that worthwhile >> storywise. > >Pretty much my belief. That said, I will always maintain _Angel_ >started sucking the moment they showed us the beach ball under JB's >sweater. Yeah, you're probably right. >> And the S4 Cordelia arc should be studied for all TV writers >> to see what not to do. > >As a teacher of mine once said, "Nothing is useless. At the very >least, it can serve as a bad example." > >> >Up to the point Connor got dragged off >> >to Quartoth, they had a plan. That plan seemed to be get Connor >> >dragged off to Quortoth even if it meant turning Wesley into a >> >schmuck, but it was a plan. >> >> "A plan. Good. Custer had a plan." > >A fine example. "Stripes" was a good movie for the first half, but >then came a second half chock-full of 'wouldn't it be cool if...' They had full nudity with the MP chicks in it? >> You probably wouldn't like the resolution portion of the last >> episode. > >"Ted" redux? No, not at all. But hey, if those who think they learned >something about Wesley and his father are happy, who am I to rain on >that parade? > >> >The more bizarre thing is I >> >think we're supposed to feel bad for Angel, but Connor never anything >> >more than a stranger to Angel; biology does not a father make. >> >> Worse, I think we were supposed to feel something for Connor, while >> almost all the viewers were negative towards him. > >I suppose. It's really hard for me to think we're supposed to feel bad >for Connor though, being as Joss worked so hard to make everything >Connor's fault. Preemptive statement for when his own kid writes the >tell-all book, perhaps? <Dime Store Shrink> Well, if you go by Xander's scenes in Restless, you've got to wonder who was in charge of the birth control in the Whedon family. DAD: No. You don't understand. The line ends here with us, and you're not gonna change that. Which might explain resentment towards women who got pregnant. </Dime Store Shrink> (The above has nothing to do with reality. I hope.) >> Oh well, we should have Connor back soon, cause the mindwipe >> keeps being brought up again and again. > >Yes. Makes you wonder W(hy)TF they did the mindwipe in the first >place. Cause they needed a way out of the corner they wrote themselves into and for future plot complications. >Anyway, I'm just hoping Charisma >had the presence of mind to insist Connor's return not be during her >return episode. Doesn't really matter, as long as they aren't forced to do the horizonal tango again. >> Though I liked what he did with ASH and Giles. He was only stuck >> around for a few episodes that he didn't fit in verses the tonnes he >> was in S4/S5. A deal like that should have been struck with >> Charisma. > >I fear a deal like 'Run Charisma, run!' was better for all concerned. I'd feel better if there were an actual script. Gather from Chrissy that CC agreed to "take the money and run" without there being a real one to read. But seeing that the little one's college fund is better off, it's the right choice to make. >You could still get that recurring role though. Apparently Bell told >CC that this (IMO ill-advised) 100th episode appearance would be left >open-ended should she and they want to work together again. (Great, >more non-answers to splatter onto the inkblot.) Bell has a future in politics, if nothing else. I gather Bell also >took the time to tell her that Joss isn't involved with the day-to-day >goings-on at _Angel_ either. Wonder why he did that? :-) Well, besides, since Firedied was possibly resurrected for a feature film, miniseries, straight to video sales next to George of The Jungle 2, whatever, Joss is with his beloved. So at least there won't be that awkward scene. Though I'm hoping she'll be walking over Fury's prone body after getting out of the limo, wearing sharp high heels. Then again, he might be too. :-) >> >Oh. I saw a graph that pretty much showed _Angel_'s and _Charmed_'s >> >ratings on a downward slide. >> >> Yeah, from the start of this season. But they are up from a year ago. > >Most shows don't keep the same numbers for the whole season. Probably >why sweeps is a month or so after the season starts. True. And you can't tell from one episode to another either. We need a much more complete set of data points. But I sure the people who kept saying how S6-7 BtVS was getting the ratings UPN was hoping for are thinking the same here. >> Not retaining that much better than the flotsum that was behind >> Smallville last season, but better. So the season looks safe. > >Yeah, but the WB has a hole after _Charmed_ to fill. "On the road again..." >> Next season... > >The WB renewed _Angel_ between S3 and S4 without demanding Joss scrap >the story and write a new one for Spike. I mean, for Angel. If _Angel_ >keeps S3-level ratings, I wouldn't think it'd be just the ratings that >got it cancelled. No one yet seems to have asked Boreanaz if he wants >to come back next season though, and I still think the Denisof fans >need to get writing if they don't want his upcoming two episode >vacation to become a permanent vacation. Actually, my fanficish nature has me looking at "Cautionary Tale..." as the foreshadowing episode. I could see ME killing off Gunn, Wes, Lorne, and Fred (with Cordy gone to whatever), leaving Angel trapped in W&H alone, pushing papers, with Eve being the one running the show. Sort of a Michael Corleone meets Wall Street kinda thing. Lot cheaper with only Spike and Angel as previous regulars. Short, cute, blonde. Hey, maybe Eve's Marti to Angel's Joss? Then again, Wes is Dark Arthur, Angel's Bad Mood Tick, and I fully expect Fred to start fighting evil with a vaccuum, so take my matching ups for what they're worth. Spooooooooooon! >The three people who like Gunn better worry too. He's as bound to the >whole W&H fiasco as Cordy ended up being to the Connor fiasco. I expect that if there's a S6, there's gonna be damn few holdovers. >> > I'd also heard the ratings weren't any better than season >> >three's ratings in any event, so Spike wasn't the ratings juggernaut >> >the WB thought he'd be. >> >> Oh, they were expecting an increase from AtS better ratings? > >As I understand, yes, the WB expected that bringing Spike over to >_Angel_ would also bring the 75% of the _Buffy_ audience who claimed >to not watch _Angel_. And who knows, it may have done so, but it was >counter-balanced by the 75% of the _Angel_ viewers who quit watching >whatever show is currently claiming to be _Angel_. You know, when you fire the heart and soul of the series, you just might have a dropoff from those who enjoyed the heart and soul of the series. And yes, Cordelia was the heart and soul of AI. Everyone left is severely damaged goods in that department. Which has made most of the episodes lacking in the heart and soul department. I figure LU got all hot and bothered by "Cautionary Tale..." cause it's been the only episode in over a year that had anything resembling a little heart or soul. Having Spike over hasn't done a thing IMO for the ratings. Having AtS following a higher in ratings series that is also near the same genre is probably the whole explaination. Those Suits need to not send out their dry cleaning. >> Someone's CYAing over this, I'm sure. > >A network executive being less than candid? Say it ain't so! "It ain't so." >> >Yes. After two years of feeling like she left the oven on, one of >> >StarCordy's whims pays off. Probably didn't hurt that it was the one >> >time one of Cordy's visions left a permanent mark either. >> >> Which shouldn't have been there. > >"That which is done cannot be undone." I Will Remember You. :-P And if this series hasn't become undone... >> >(Psst: address, not phone number.) >> >> Hey, I'm as accurate as ME is. > >Damn it man, set a goal that can't be reached by a three year-old! Just want to feel close to that ME team. >> >Cordy was Cleodelia, Queen of Denial. If she didn't want to have >> >fluffy bunny feelings for Angel, she would have willed herself to not >> >have fluffy bunny feelings for Angel. >> >> She had been. Groo broke the walls down. > >Yeah? ISTM she had to talk herself into thinking she did have fluffy >bunny feelings for Angel. I was more convinced by her claim that she >might love Xander 'cause he grows on you like a Chia pet. Almost makes you willing to let clover grow on parts of your body. Well, no, not those parts. >> Yeah, the wall would have come >> >down eventually, but Cordy running away isn't Cordy. >> >> But she wasn't running away. She was ascending. See >> the difference? (OK, there isn't one, but to Ceodelia she >> could deny that there was.) > >Denying her denial of the denied thing? Hmm... Well, if you want to go that Jasmine was manipulating it all, getting out of town after realizing her feeling for Angel isn't a bad denial denial. >> >Silk purse, sow's ear. The math doesn't work. >> >> Silk purse, sow's shit, you mean. > >Well, in this case, you can have the one-up. I consider it just being more accurate. >> And LU wonders why we're left to fanwanking. > >I'm idly wondering why we're fanwanking and he's delivering sharp, >insightful commentary on what happened last season, but not enough to >get entangled. Cause he uses big words and a loud voice. Of course LU's fanwanking. It's all you can do with S4. >> BTW, do you read "Get Fuzzy" in the comic strips? > >I can honestly say I've never heard of this strip... Not bad in the FarSideless, CalvinandHobbesless, BloomCountyOutlandsWhateverBreatheiscallingitnowless comic strips world. (No, I haven't seen Opus yet.) > Everyone I know must be >insane. Which isn't totally out of the question. Actually, don't that explain a whole lot? >> A 12 year old Sean Connery knocking some woman up? >> >> Hey, that's at least possible. > >Well, yeah. One of the things that seperate men from women. Well, with all the hormones in meat, 11 year old girls have become pregnant. >> >Well, KA and CC have the naturally dark complexion thing going, and >> >there are some other superficial resemblances. >> >> Guess CC's character took after Indy's mom on the body front. > >Oh, I'd say CC is a work of art in her own right. Not arguing, just wondering how you'd get from Indy to her. >> >That and robots. >> >> Ninja Robot! Cause wouldn't it be cool if... > >So did Willow swing by to pick up some parts? Coming soon. Though to be accurate, we had the Invasion of the Cybermen. I think we saw how ME would do those Doctor Who characters, more Ultimate Warriors than clanking plastic covered morons. Too bad the BBC never got back to Joss on Ripper. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-19 10:49:57-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031118092243.22081.00001978@mb-m17.aol.com>... > In article <26b7e9d4.0311171409.799efabc@posting.google.com>, > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031114121238.00545.00002315@mb-m02.aol.com>... > > >> Sadly, I'm not sure we can ever figure out what was in the writing > >> staff's head. Though a drug test might help. :-) > > > >Unless they were eating poppy seed bagels. > > Suuuuure. That's why it wouldn't work. Suuuuure. Hey, it was on _Mythbusters_. Blame them. > >One hopes that Joss at least > >intended at some stage to have Cordy's story have a point anyway. > > Granted hope springs eternal, but some hopes are stillborn. Featured word there was the past tense of intend. I currently harbor no such hopes. > That too. Though I'd figure Cordy would get to do something sooner > or latter. Granted TPTB ain't the swiftest thinkers, but I'd figure she'd > get some work by now. Well, the slot machine manipulation wasn't sanctioned by the PTB as far as we know, so maybe she's gone rogue. Hey, that's Wesley's new arc: Rogue Higher Being Hunter. What's a rogue higher being? > >Wait! Hey, that's someone's mother you're talking about there! > > Well since Jasmine was an abortion... Jasmine was a moth leaving the cocoon. The Haxill demon spawn was an abortion. > >Bottom line, the above fanwank took me five minutes to come up with > >and makes far more sense than the "sometimes it was Cordy, sometimes > >it wasn't" theory. It's also seems to be five minutes more than Joss > >and company devoted to thinking about the arc. > > I have it on good authority that it was four minutes and 59 seconds > more. Though that one second of thought was done by Mere in passing. Hey, Mere's not busy any more. Maybe they can get her to write the 100th episode. > >With lots of AD, it'd be hard to see how it could suck. Even GWBG > >didn't suck as such. I'm sure the MEanies did their best though. > > Though it probably made them blue, which would make them > Blue ME... oh, I can't do it! > > "We all live in a Yellow Submarine. A Yellow Submarine. A Yellow > Submarine." And the ghost of John Lennon comes by to haunt you forever. > >Okay, just this once: > ><http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288650515> > > Done, downloaded, and drooled. Yeah, she's a babe. > >A fine example. "Stripes" was a good movie for the first half, but > >then came a second half chock-full of 'wouldn't it be cool if...' > > They had full nudity with the MP chicks in it? Would have been better then what they did do; more *female* nudity is never a bad thing. > <Dime Store Shrink> > > Well, if you go by Xander's scenes in Restless, you've got to wonder > who was in charge of the birth control in the Whedon family. > > DAD: No. You don't understand. The line ends here with us, > and you're not gonna change that. > > Which might explain resentment towards women who got pregnant. > > </Dime Store Shrink> > > (The above has nothing to do with reality. I hope.) Honestly, looking at the last couple of seasons of _Buffy_, _Angel_, and _Fireflop_, you have to wonder about Joss' entire childhood. Issues on top of issues. > >Yes. Makes you wonder W(hy)TF they did the mindwipe in the first > >place. > > Cause they needed a way out of the corner they wrote themselves > into and for future plot complications. The WTF? moment is they took the easy out with the reset and then they fired the actor involved, so why dick around with it? Isn't there a thing about sleeping dogs? ::sigh:: 'Wouldn't it be cool if...' strikes again. > >Anyway, I'm just hoping Charisma > >had the presence of mind to insist Connor's return not be during her > >return episode. > > Doesn't really matter, as long as they aren't forced to do the horizonal > tango again. Given that she claimed those scenes made her physically ill last season, I'm fairly certain that no more children-boinking was a condition of CC's return. And it does matter. The episode should revolve around Cordelia with no other distractions. The series should revolve around Cordelia with no other distractions too, but Joss is too dumb to see that. > >I fear a deal like 'Run Charisma, run!' was better for all concerned. > > I'd feel better if there were an actual script. Gather from Chrissy > that CC agreed to "take the money and run" without there being > a real one to read. They did submit a spec script to her to give her an idea of what foolishness they had in store, and she may have secured the contractual right to walk if the script that is produced doesn't meet her approval. I mean, obviously she can't trust Joss to look out for the character. Still, they wrote "Lovers Walk" before Landau signed on, so that thing about not writing a script until she said yes was bullshit. > But seeing that the little one's college fund is better off, it's the > right choice to make. I also understand she's in negotiations with the folks at _Miss Match_ for yet more appearances there. Which is great for her and all, but I need her to show up in something I can watch with the sound turned up. Yes, it is all about me. But _Angel_ is her past. Time to move on. > >You could still get that recurring role though. Apparently Bell told > >CC that this (IMO ill-advised) 100th episode appearance would be left > >open-ended should she and they want to work together again. (Great, > >more non-answers to splatter onto the inkblot.) > > Bell has a future in politics, if nothing else. It might hurt his chances, but he may be telling the truth. More than most ME employees do anyway. (I know, the bar doesn't get much lower.) I understand that W&H will find itself in need of a new connection to the Senior Partners in the near future. Now there's a pivotal, open-ended role that explains where Cordy is without actually having her show up, and lets Joss kill her off at the end of the series so Charisma can't be in the BtVS movie. OTOH, the script snippet from ep 12 running around tends to suggest that either ME is going to try and have it all by having Cordy "wake up" as non-higher being, non-part-demon, and non-Vision Girl, but completely unaware of anything that happened last season, (more likely, nothing since the "Birthday" coma) or have her be just a construct of Angel's imagination. Since the latter is too horrible an idea to comprehend, I imagine that's what's going to happen. Anyway, I'd bet we aren't gonna get any concrete answers in any case, so yeah, the whole bunch of them ought to be in Congress. > I gather Bell also > >took the time to tell her that Joss isn't involved with the day-to-day > >goings-on at _Angel_ either. Wonder why he did that? > > Well, besides, since Firedied was possibly resurrected for a feature > film, miniseries, straight to video sales next to George of The Jungle > 2, whatever, Joss is with his beloved. > > So at least there won't be that awkward scene. I'm sure it's something the self-described Great Communicator doesn't want either. > Though I'm hoping she'll be walking over Fury's prone body after getting > out of the limo, wearing sharp high heels. > > Then again, he might be too. :-) I just had a flashback to act one of "The Wish." <homer>Argh, brown leather skirt...</homer> > >Most shows don't keep the same numbers for the whole season. Probably > >why sweeps is a month or so after the season starts. > > True. And you can't tell from one episode to another either. We need > a much more complete set of data points. But I sure the people who > kept saying how S6-7 BtVS was getting the ratings UPN was hoping > for are thinking the same here. Well, here's the chart that laid out all four seasons along with the current season of _Angel_... <http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/angelbuffy0/Pictures/graph.JPG> All I really get from the graph is _Angel_ has a set core audience, and said audience isn't going to get significantly larger or smaller, so the WB just needs to deal with that. > >> Not retaining that much better than the flotsum that was behind > >> Smallville last season, but better. So the season looks safe. > > > >Yeah, but the WB has a hole after _Charmed_ to fill. > > "On the road again..." I understand the WB just pushed _Fearless_ back again to next fall, so maybe _Angel_'s safe. > Actually, my fanficish nature has me looking at "Cautionary Tale..." > as the foreshadowing episode. I could see ME killing off Gunn, Wes, > Lorne, and Fred (with Cordy gone to whatever), leaving Angel trapped in > W&H alone, pushing papers, with Eve being the one running the show. Having not seen it, I'm unable to speak about it with any authority. But I won't let that stop me. I just wonder if WWF Wednesday was intended to remind Angel that there will come a day in the natural course of events when Gunn, Wesley, and Fred aren't going to be around anyway. > Lot cheaper with only Spike and Angel as previous regulars. Season six opens with Angel, Spike, and Harmony in an all-vampire version of "City Of". > Short, cute, blonde. Hey, maybe Eve's Marti to Angel's Joss? That would almost be clever, so no, never happen. > >The three people who like Gunn better worry too. He's as bound to the > >whole W&H fiasco as Cordy ended up being to the Connor fiasco. > > I expect that if there's a S6, there's gonna be damn few holdovers. I wouldn't be surprised. > Having Spike over hasn't done a thing IMO for the ratings. Having > AtS following a higher in ratings series that is also near the same > genre is probably the whole explaination. Those Suits need to > not send out their dry cleaning. I wouldn't say Spike hasn't done a thing. The ratings are better than season four, and not just because the stories have been reduced to the "See Spot run" level of storytelling. As you point out, and as absences in the newsgroup attest to, (Ack! On-topicness in the post!), more than a few people walked last season and haven't looked back. It at least appears that for Spike, ME/WB traded that audience for the shirtless-one-droolers. > >A network executive being less than candid? Say it ain't so! > > "It ain't so." Hmm, now to see if we can spark a huge debate over whether or not you have a reason to lie about this. > >> Which shouldn't have been there. > > > >"That which is done cannot be undone." > > I Will Remember You. :-P Aw, that's kind of you to say. > And if this series hasn't become undone... Yeah, well, if you never get the season four and up DVD's, you can always have the elevator scene. > >I'm idly wondering why we're fanwanking and he's delivering sharp, > >insightful commentary on what happened last season, but not enough to > >get entangled. > > Cause he uses big words and a loud voice. But I know some big words and I can be heard over a running jet airplane. > Of course LU's fanwanking. It's all you can do with S4. I know. It's the denial I don't get. >(No, I haven't seen Opus yet.) Nor have I. I'm dreading it though. It's like hearing there's going to be a sequel to "The Matrix." Sounds good in theory, sucked in execution. > > Everyone I know must be > >insane. Which isn't totally out of the question. > > Actually, don't that explain a whole lot? Yes. Yes, it does. > >> Guess CC's character took after Indy's mom on the body front. > > > >Oh, I'd say CC is a work of art in her own right. > > Not arguing, just wondering how you'd get from Indy to her. A gift from God? > >So did Willow swing by to pick up some parts? > > Coming soon. Yeah? Hmm... > Though to be accurate, we had the Invasion of the Cybermen. > I think we saw how ME would do those Doctor Who characters, > more Ultimate Warriors than clanking plastic covered morons. You wanted the Blue Demon Group from "Provider"? > Too bad the BBC never got back to Joss on Ripper. But why? This: <http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/buffy/news/pirateash.shtml> is far better for ASH anyway. Terry

2003-11-20 06:45:24+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031118092243.22081.00001978@mb-m17.aol.com>... >> In article <26b7e9d4.0311171409.799efabc@posting.google.com>, >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031114121238.00545.00002315@mb-m02.aol.com>... >> > >> That too. Though I'd figure Cordy would get to do something sooner >> or latter. Granted TPTB ain't the swiftest thinkers, but I'd figure she'd >> get some work by now. > >Well, the slot machine manipulation wasn't sanctioned by the PTB as >far as we know, so maybe she's gone rogue. Hey, that's Wesley's new >arc: Rogue Higher Being Hunter. What's a rogue higher being? No, he's a Rogue Daddy Robot Gunner now. >> >Wait! Hey, that's someone's mother you're talking about there! >> >> Well since Jasmine was an abortion... > >Jasmine was a moth leaving the cocoon. The Haxill demon spawn was an >abortion. OK, you got me on a technicality. Either way, Cordy has not been a mother. So we can lust unimpeded by poor taste! Not that poor taste has stopped ME this season. >It's also seems to be five minutes more than Joss >> >and company devoted to thinking about the arc. >> >> I have it on good authority that it was four minutes and 59 seconds >> more. Though that one second of thought was done by Mere in passing. > >Hey, Mere's not busy any more. Maybe they can get her to write the >100th episode. Not the worst idea I've heard. At least she'd have a clue about writing Cordelia. >> >With lots of AD, it'd be hard to see how it could suck. Even GWBG >> >didn't suck as such. I'm sure the MEanies did their best though. >> >> Though it probably made them blue, which would make them >> Blue ME... oh, I can't do it! >> >> "We all live in a Yellow Submarine. A Yellow Submarine. A Yellow >> Submarine." > >And the ghost of John Lennon comes by to haunt you forever. Just as long as he brings his guitar and plays, it's all right by me. >> >Okay, just this once: >> ><http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288650515> >> >> Done, downloaded, and drooled. > >Yeah, she's a babe. Most definitely. Too bad ME is still not using that to the full advantage. >> >A fine example. "Stripes" was a good movie for the first half, but >> >then came a second half chock-full of 'wouldn't it be cool if...' >> >> They had full nudity with the MP chicks in it? > >Would have been better then what they did do; more *female* nudity is >never a bad thing. It's salvaged a great number of otherwise terrible flicks. Though it barely could save "Eyes Wide Shut". >> <Dime Store Shrink> >> >> Which might explain resentment towards women who got pregnant. >> >> </Dime Store Shrink> >> >> (The above has nothing to do with reality. I hope.) > >Honestly, looking at the last couple of seasons of _Buffy_, _Angel_, >and _Fireflop_, you have to wonder about Joss' entire childhood. >Issues on top of issues. I'm still of the belief that a writer can write about issues without having had those issues. That said, there are some undertones that do make you wonder. >> >Yes. Makes you wonder W(hy)TF they did the mindwipe in the first >> >place. >> >> Cause they needed a way out of the corner they wrote themselves >> into and for future plot complications. > 'Wouldn't it be cool if...' >strikes again. Hey, it seems to be all that's left in ME. >> >Anyway, I'm just hoping Charisma >> >had the presence of mind to insist Connor's return not be during her >> >return episode. >> >> Doesn't really matter, as long as they aren't forced to do the horizonal >> tango again. > >Given that she claimed those scenes made her physically ill last >season, I'm fairly certain that no more children-boinking was a >condition of CC's return. We should be grateful for small favors. >And it does matter. The episode should revolve around Cordelia with no >other distractions. Or at least be the major portion of the episode, just like Darla use to be. The series should revolve around Cordelia with no >other distractions too, but Joss is too dumb to see that. Well, sure, but hey, his original mistake was naming it Angel, and not Cordy! >> >I fear a deal like 'Run Charisma, run!' was better for all concerned. >> >> I'd feel better if there were an actual script. Gather from Chrissy >> that CC agreed to "take the money and run" without there being >> a real one to read. > >Still, they wrote "Lovers Walk" before Landau signed on, so that thing >about not writing a script until she said yes was bullshit. Well duh. The final draft won't be ready till two minutes before the shoot though. >OTOH, the script snippet from ep 12 running around tends to suggest >that either ME is going to try and have it all by having Cordy "wake >up" as non-higher being, non-part-demon, and non-Vision Girl, As I told Lord Usher, his side will win. It's the series that's losing. but >completely unaware of anything that happened last season, (more >likely, nothing since the "Birthday" coma) Ah, that still leaves the Connor problem, so they best have her not remember much of anything except S2. or have her be just a >construct of Angel's imagination. Since the latter is too horrible an >idea to comprehend, I imagine that's what's going to happen. Yep. >Anyway, I'd bet we aren't gonna get any concrete answers in any case, >so yeah, the whole bunch of them ought to be in Congress. You know, that might be the greatest insult either of us have come up with. :-) >All I really get from the graph is _Angel_ has a set core audience, >and said audience isn't going to get significantly larger or smaller, >so the WB just needs to deal with that. Usually they will by cutting either price or the show. They've cut price already. >> Actually, my fanficish nature has me looking at "Cautionary Tale..." >> as the foreshadowing episode. I could see ME killing off Gunn, Wes, >> Lorne, and Fred (with Cordy gone to whatever), leaving Angel trapped in >> W&H alone, pushing papers, with Eve being the one running the show. > >Having not seen it, I'm unable to speak about it with any authority. Yeah, but will that stop you? >But I won't let that stop me. I just wonder if WWF Wednesday was >intended to remind Angel that there will come a day in the natural >course of events when Gunn, Wesley, and Fred aren't going to be around >anyway. Nope. He was too busy wondering why his heart wasn't cut out. Don't ask. Angel's a moron this season. >> Lot cheaper with only Spike and Angel as previous regulars. > >Season six opens with Angel, Spike, and Harmony in an all-vampire >version of "City Of". Just as long as Spike's a puff of smoke by midseason. >> Short, cute, blonde. Hey, maybe Eve's Marti to Angel's Joss? > >That would almost be clever, so no, never happen. Yeah, besides, Joss probably likes to see himself as Spike more than Angel. >> >The three people who like Gunn better worry too. He's as bound to the >> >whole W&H fiasco as Cordy ended up being to the Connor fiasco. >> >> I expect that if there's a S6, there's gonna be damn few holdovers. > >I wouldn't be surprised. Well, I'm now sure I won't care. Two good ones in a row and then Ugh! This last one sucked beyond the telling. Terribly written. >> Having Spike over hasn't done a thing IMO for the ratings. Having >> AtS following a higher in ratings series that is also near the same >> genre is probably the whole explaination. Those Suits need to >> not send out their dry cleaning. > >I wouldn't say Spike hasn't done a thing. No, he's made Angel act like a 10 year old. The ratings are better than >season four, and not just because the stories have been reduced to the >"See Spot run" level of storytelling. As you point out, and as >absences in the newsgroup attest to, (Ack! On-topicness in the post!), >more than a few people walked last season and haven't looked back. It >at least appears that for Spike, ME/WB traded that audience for the >shirtless-one-droolers. Yeah, but as you point out, AtS is basically stuck at what it is. Spike adding to it didn't do anything to break that. >> >A network executive being less than candid? Say it ain't so! >> >> "It ain't so." > >Hmm, now to see if we can spark a huge debate over whether or not you >have a reason to lie about this. "Which lie did I tell him?" >> >I'm idly wondering why we're fanwanking and he's delivering sharp, >> >insightful commentary on what happened last season, but not enough to >> >get entangled. >> >> Cause he uses big words and a loud voice. > >But I know some big words and I can be heard over a running jet >airplane. His is bigger, err, his words are bigger. >>(No, I haven't seen Opus yet.) > >Nor have I. I'm dreading it though. It's like hearing there's going to >be a sequel to "The Matrix." Sounds good in theory, sucked in >execution. Gee, and here I was thinking about renting the DVD. Saved a few bucks. >> >> Guess CC's character took after Indy's mom on the body front. >> > >> >Oh, I'd say CC is a work of art in her own right. >> >> Not arguing, just wondering how you'd get from Indy to her. > >A gift from God? Well, that'd be type casting then. >> >So did Willow swing by to pick up some parts? >> >> Coming soon. > >Yeah? Hmm... If you want the spoilers.... Oh screw spoiler space. Not like either of us are lasting the season. Willow's in charged of a crazed Slayer who cuts parts off of Spike. Which makes you wonder about what sanity is in the MEverse. >> Though to be accurate, we had the Invasion of the Cybermen. >> I think we saw how ME would do those Doctor Who characters, >> more Ultimate Warriors than clanking plastic covered morons. > >You wanted the Blue Demon Group from "Provider"? Hey, they did a great IBM commercial! >> Too bad the BBC never got back to Joss on Ripper. > >But why? This: <http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/buffy/news/pirateash.shtml> >is far better for ASH anyway. Not talking about ASH but rather Joss and ME. ASH is better off without Ripper. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-20 09:47:52+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (aej17DELETEME@comcast.net)


SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >>I wouldn't say Spike hasn't done a thing. > > No, he's made Angel act like a 10 year old. Now, I want to preface anything I say with this: I'm sorry to interrupt a Stephen - Terry rant. There has been little that has been as entertaining on this group for the past couple of years. Really. That being said, and knowing it won't stop me anyways, I want to say that this is the most disturbing aspect of the show this season. Angel is an adolescent again? So is Spike? Terry, you probably didn't see "Destiny." Stephen, I know you did. Good god. -- AE Jabbour "I mean, I may have ripped off Vertigo, The Shining, James Ellroy, James M. Cain, Barton Fink, Rebel Without a Cause, Vertigo, Psycho, Kiss Me Deadly, Double Indemnity and The Hudsucker Proxy - but I'm certainly no plagiarist!" Tim Minear, alt.tv.angel, 10.05.2000

2003-11-20 09:51:34-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


aej17DELETEME@comcast.net (A.E. Jabbour) wrote in message news:<bpi2k7$1p8n9v$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... > Now, I want to preface anything I say with this: I'm sorry > to interrupt a Stephen - Terry rant. There has been little > that has been as entertaining on this group for the past > couple of years. Really. Well, glad to oblige. Really. :) Sadly, the time will come when it'll just sound more like two crotchety old men complaining about the good old days... Oh. > That being said, and knowing it won't stop me anyways, > I want to say that this is the most disturbing aspect of > the show this season. Angel is an adolescent again? > So is Spike? > > Terry, you probably didn't see "Destiny." Stephen, I know > you did. > > Good god. So is Stephen over- or under-estimating Angel's and Spike's relative age? Terry

2003-11-20 15:31:51+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


aej17DELETEME@comcast.net (A.E. Jabbour) wrote: >SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > >>>I wouldn't say Spike hasn't done a thing. >> >> No, he's made Angel act like a 10 year old. > >Now, I want to preface anything I say with this: I'm sorry >to interrupt a Stephen - Terry rant. Hey, come on in. The waters of bitterness are fine. There has been little >that has been as entertaining on this group for the past >couple of years. Really. When Terry and I pass for the entertainment... >That being said, and knowing it won't stop me anyways, >I want to say that this is the most disturbing aspect of >the show this season. Angel is an adolescent again? Yeah. At least his Darla obsession of S2 was a mature obsession. This Shanshu one just doesn't cut it for more than a single episode. It's beginning to have the feeling of the "Depressed Buffy arc" of S6 BtVS. >So is Spike? Spike always was. OK, granted, he was more obsessed teenager than 10 year old, but his decline makes a little more sense than Angel's obsession about Shanshuing. >Terry, you probably didn't see "Destiny." Stephen, I know >you did. > >Good god. Terry's the wiser of us all. And I'm still betting it'll have the highest five star rating of the season! Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-20 19:29:08+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (aej17DELETEME@comcast.net)


Terry McNeal <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote: > aej17DELETEME@comcast.net (A.E. Jabbour) wrote in message news:<bpi2k7$1p8n9v$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... >> Terry, you probably didn't see "Destiny." Stephen, I know >> you did. >> >> Good god. > > So is Stephen over- or under-estimating Angel's and Spike's relative > age? It would be difficult to actually underestimate, in this case. "I'm Shanshu." "No, I am." "I saved the world." "I saved it more." I mean, there's just something about it ... -- AE Jabbour "I mean, I may have ripped off Vertigo, The Shining, James Ellroy, James M. Cain, Barton Fink, Rebel Without a Cause, Vertigo, Psycho, Kiss Me Deadly, Double Indemnity and The Hudsucker Proxy - but I'm certainly no plagiarist!" Tim Minear, alt.tv.angel, 10.05.2000

2003-11-21 06:15:31-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031120014524.20316.00000623@mb-m04.aol.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031118092243.22081.00001978@mb-m17.aol.com>... > > >> That too. Though I'd figure Cordy would get to do something sooner > >> or latter. Granted TPTB ain't the swiftest thinkers, but I'd figure she'd > >> get some work by now. > > > >Well, the slot machine manipulation wasn't sanctioned by the PTB as > >far as we know, so maybe she's gone rogue. Hey, that's Wesley's new > >arc: Rogue Higher Being Hunter. What's a rogue higher being? > > No, he's a Rogue Daddy Robot Gunner now. As long as it's only Daddy robots. I'd hate to think the BuffyBot could be in danger. > >Jasmine was a moth leaving the cocoon. The Haxill demon spawn was an > >abortion. > > OK, you got me on a technicality. Either way, Cordy has not been > a mother. So we can lust unimpeded by poor taste! You're lusting after a comatose woman? Sick, man, sick. > Not that poor taste has stopped ME this season. Oh. Well, then, lust away. > >Hey, Mere's not busy any more. Maybe they can get her to write the > >100th episode. > > Not the worst idea I've heard. At least she'd have a clue about > writing Cordelia. At least the one bit of dialog in the casting side is Cordy-like. That may be the only bit of dialog that's Cordy-like, but it's a start. > >And the ghost of John Lennon comes by to haunt you forever. > > Just as long as he brings his guitar and plays, it's all right > by me. You say that now, but you're screwed if you outlive Yoko. > >Yeah, she's a babe. > > Most definitely. > > Too bad ME is still not using that to the full advantage. I hear MM's getting added to the opening credits come episode twelve. You know, purely by coincidence, of course. No subliminal messages intended there. > >Would have been better then what they did do; more *female* nudity is > >never a bad thing. > > It's salvaged a great number of otherwise terrible flicks. Though > it barely could save "Eyes Wide Shut". Ah, yes. The movie for which the best review was, "Nicole Kidman has the nicest butt I've ever seen." And given that it was CC who gave that review, high praise indeed. > I'm still of the belief that a writer can write about issues without > having had those issues. That said, there are some undertones > that do make you wonder. It's when a theme exists seperately in different pieces of work that the subtext begins to become text. > 'Wouldn't it be cool if...' > >strikes again. > > Hey, it seems to be all that's left in ME. When all you have is a hammer, the scripts take a beating. > >Given that she claimed those scenes made her physically ill last > >season, I'm fairly certain that no more children-boinking was a > >condition of CC's return. > > We should be grateful for small favors. That's actually something that falls under the category of huge favors. > >And it does matter. The episode should revolve around Cordelia with no > >other distractions. > > Or at least be the major portion of the episode, just like Darla > use to be. Well, they may have only one shot to try to explain what really happened last season. It's going to take the entire episode revolving around Cordelia to begin to make that happen. I expect it'll actually revolve around Angel angsting because Cordy's spending more time talking to Spike than him, but that's only because Joss. Doesn't. Get. It. > The series should revolve around Cordelia with no > >other distractions too, but Joss is too dumb to see that. > > Well, sure, but hey, his original mistake was naming it Angel, > and not Cordy! Truer words were never spoken. > >Still, they wrote "Lovers Walk" before Landau signed on, so that thing > >about not writing a script until [Charisma] said yes was bullshit. > > Well duh. The final draft won't be ready till two minutes before the > shoot though. I wonder if CC thinks that being sued for walking off the set is the worst thing that could happen to her? Seriously, I think ME needs to tread carefully if they really do want to bring CC back. I doubt Charisma will allow herself be fooled again no matter how good the deal. The sad part is you can't rule out ME intentionally sabotaging her appearence so as to be able to say that it was Charisma who refused to come back and fulfill Joss' dream of genius. > >OTOH, the script snippet from ep 12 running around tends to suggest > >that either ME is going to try and have it all by having Cordy "wake > >up" as non-higher being, non-part-demon, and non-Vision Girl, > > As I told Lord Usher, his side will win. It's the series that's losing. The series has lost. Will they save the character? Las Vegas oddsmakers aren't likely to take a beating if they stack the odds against yes. > but > >completely unaware of anything that happened last season, (more > >likely, nothing since the "Birthday" coma) > > Ah, that still leaves the Connor problem, so they best have her not > remember much of anything except S2. She seems to remember more than season 2 but none of season 4. Then again, it's just two lines of dialog, so who knows? And the Connor problem isn't an issue as long as Cordy's only a construct of Angel's imagination. > or have her be just a > >construct of Angel's imagination. Since the latter is too horrible an > >idea to comprehend, I imagine that's what's going to happen. > > Yep. And what a great way to waste CC's return. Eh, I guess it would be acceptable if it motivated Angel to find out where RealCordy is and get her back, but that would involve dealing with a character who actually had an impact on _Angel_ rather than spending a lot of time on Spike and/or Buffy, characters who have far less impact on the series. So, you know, not likely that'll happen either. > >Anyway, I'd bet we aren't gonna get any concrete answers in any case, > >so yeah, the whole bunch of them ought to be in Congress. > > You know, that might be the greatest insult either of us have come > up with. :-) It's up there with calling an atheist God. > >All I really get from the graph is _Angel_ has a set core audience, > >and said audience isn't going to get significantly larger or smaller, > >so the WB just needs to deal with that. > > Usually they will by cutting either price or the show. They've cut > price already. I guess. But there's something to be said about having a built-in audience you can count on no matter how bad a series gets. Look how long NBC has held onto _ER_. > >> Actually, my fanficish nature has me looking at "Cautionary Tale..." > >> as the foreshadowing episode. I could see ME killing off Gunn, Wes, > >> Lorne, and Fred (with Cordy gone to whatever), leaving Angel trapped in > >> W&H alone, pushing papers, with Eve being the one running the show. > > > >Having not seen it, I'm unable to speak about it with any authority. > > Yeah, but will that stop you? Um... > >But I won't let that stop me. ...no. I won't argue about it though. > >But I won't let that stop me. I just wonder if WWF Wednesday was > >intended to remind Angel that there will come a day in the natural > >course of events when Gunn, Wesley, and Fred aren't going to be around > >anyway. > > Nope. He was too busy wondering why his heart wasn't cut out. Okay. Wouldn't he turn to dust and stuff if his heart was cut out? Never mind, I'll just go with it. > Don't ask. Angel's a moron this season. This season? > >Season six opens with Angel, Spike, and Harmony in an all-vampire > >version of "City Of". > > Just as long as Spike's a puff of smoke by midseason. Angel would go before Spike. > Yeah, besides, Joss probably likes to see himself as Spike more than > Angel. Well, Spike's mother did come on to him. Say, there's those issues again. > Well, I'm now sure I won't care. Two good ones in a row and then > Ugh! This last one sucked beyond the telling. Terribly written. Who wrote it? And was it worse than "Provider"? > >I wouldn't say Spike hasn't done a thing. > > No, he's made Angel act like a 10 year old. Unless Spike has the same power to usurp free will as Skip claimed Jasmine had, it'd be more accurate to say Angel is acting like a 10 year-old in reaction to Spike. Who I gather is also acting like a 10 year-old. Man, you guys are making me so anxious to watch this show. ;) Wait; Spike -- Skip. Hmm... > >at least appears that for Spike, ME/WB traded that audience for the > >shirtless-one-droolers. > > Yeah, but as you point out, AtS is basically stuck at what > it is. Spike adding to it didn't do anything to break that. But Spike may have stabilized the loss that pimping the series out caused. I'm not saying bringing Spike over was a great idea, unless it was to put Mr. Pointy to good use, but I think he did plug a hole firing CC left. All those people will have a job for at least one more year, so on the surface it was worth a shot as opposed to the complete non-chance of renewal _Angel_ had before Blondie Bore was brought over. Show *business* and all that. > >> >A network executive being less than candid? Say it ain't so! > >> > >> "It ain't so." > > > >Hmm, now to see if we can spark a huge debate over whether or not you > >have a reason to lie about this. > > "Which lie did I tell him?" Isn't it "Which Lie Did I Tell?"? I ask 'cause I had to Google and that was the only hit I got that made any sense. > >Nor have I. I'm dreading it though. It's like hearing there's going to > >be a sequel to "The Matrix." Sounds good in theory, sucked in > >execution. > > Gee, and here I was thinking about renting the DVD. Saved a few > bucks. Well, the die-hard Matrix fan might like it. I just wasn't one of those people who thought shrines should be erected to the movie in the first place. It was always nothing more than a decent flick with great special effects. This time around the SFX are old news and the story is silly. > >> >Oh, I'd say CC is a work of art in her own right. > >> > >> Not arguing, just wondering how you'd get from Indy to her. > > > >A gift from God? > > Well, that'd be type casting then. "You chose wisely." > >> >So did Willow swing by to pick up some parts? > >> > >> Coming soon. > > > >Yeah? Hmm... > > If you want the spoilers.... Is it still a spoiler if you aren't gonna watch, or is it like reading a novelization of the series? > Oh screw spoiler space. Not like either of us are lasting the season. Or that anyone's reading this far into the thread. > Willow's in charged of a crazed Slayer who cuts parts off of Spike. Wow. I'd heard about the Lindsey-izing X 2 of Spike and the crazy Slayer, but I didn't know Willow was her Watcher. It would explain why the Slayer is crazy, I guess. "You'd be nuts too if you had to be around Kennedy all day, and all my Watcher does is talk about me get my tongue pierced." > Which makes you wonder about what sanity is in the MEverse. I suspect for Joss the definition of sanity is doing the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. > >You wanted the Blue Demon Group from "Provider"? > > Hey, they did a great IBM commercial! Not a terribly easy thing to do either. > >> Too bad the BBC never got back to Joss on Ripper. > > > >But why? This: <http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/buffy/news/pirateash.shtml> > >is far better for ASH anyway. > > Not talking about ASH but rather Joss and ME. ASH is better off > without Ripper. True. Maybe the BBC felt they would be as well. Terry

2003-11-21 18:55:17+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031120014524.20316.00000623@mb-m04.aol.com>... >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031118092243.22081.00001978@mb-m17.aol.com>... >> >> >Hey, that's Wesley's new >> >arc: Rogue Higher Being Hunter. What's a rogue higher being? >> >> No, he's a Rogue Daddy Robot Gunner now. > >As long as it's only Daddy robots. I'd hate to think the BuffyBot >could be in danger. Wicca Willow would protect it with her life. Cause Buffybot's batteries don't have to be replaced nearly as often. And isn't as annoying as Kennedy. >> >Jasmine was a moth leaving the cocoon. The Haxill demon spawn was an >> >abortion. >> >> OK, you got me on a technicality. Either way, Cordy has not been >> a mother. So we can lust unimpeded by poor taste! > >You're lusting after a comatose woman? Sick, man, sick. When it's the only shot you have with women anymore... >> Not that poor taste has stopped ME this season. > >Oh. Well, then, lust away. I will. >> >Hey, Mere's not busy any more. Maybe they can get her to write the >> >100th episode. >> >> Not the worst idea I've heard. At least she'd have a clue about >> writing Cordelia. > >At least the one bit of dialog in the casting side is Cordy-like. That >may be the only bit of dialog that's Cordy-like, but it's a start. We have to grovel for morsels, I guess. >> >And the ghost of John Lennon comes by to haunt you forever. >> >> Just as long as he brings his guitar and plays, it's all right >> by me. > >You say that now, but you're screwed if you outlive Yoko. One minute after they start singing duets, they won't. Hey, maybe then I can haunt them! >> >Yeah, she's a babe. >> >> Most definitely. >> >> Too bad ME is still not using that to the full advantage. > >I hear MM's getting added to the opening credits come episode twelve. Hell with that. I want more Nekkid Harmony! >You know, purely by coincidence, of course. No subliminal messages >intended there. PFFFFFFFFT. >> >Would have been better then what they did do; more *female* nudity is >> >never a bad thing. >> >> It's salvaged a great number of otherwise terrible flicks. Though >> it barely could save "Eyes Wide Shut". > >Ah, yes. The movie for which the best review was, "Nicole Kidman has >the nicest butt I've ever seen." And given that it was CC who gave >that review, high praise indeed. So she doesn't look in a mirror to check her back skirt lengths? >> I'm still of the belief that a writer can write about issues without >> having had those issues. That said, there are some undertones >> that do make you wonder. > >It's when a theme exists seperately in different pieces of work that >the subtext begins to become text. You mean Serenity, Jasmine, and Caleb like anvils? Or just every Damn Daddy they've show? >> 'Wouldn't it be cool if...' >> >strikes again. >> >> Hey, it seems to be all that's left in ME. > >When all you have is a hammer, the scripts take a beating. "Flat as a pancake!" - Schultz 'Hogan's Heroes'. >> >Given that she claimed those scenes made her physically ill last >> >season, I'm fairly certain that no more children-boinking was a >> >condition of CC's return. >> >> We should be grateful for small favors. > >That's actually something that falls under the category of huge >favors. No, that would be if parents wouldn't take their kids to see Michael Jackson at his place and stay overnight. But I guess that's asking too much from modern parents. >> >And it does matter. The episode should revolve around Cordelia with no >> >other distractions. >> >> Or at least be the major portion of the episode, just like Darla >> use to be. > >Well, they may have only one shot to try to explain what really >happened last season. It's going to take the entire episode revolving >around Cordelia to begin to make that happen. Seeing their attempts in Inside Out, not seeing them being able to explain it in a full seasonal arc, let alone a short one. Best that they just patch some holes and move on. Best patching, Cordy was up on high. Bad patching, Cordy was trapped inside. (See previous argument.) I expect it'll actually >revolve around Angel angsting because Cordy's spending more time >talking to Spike than him, but that's only because Joss. Doesn't. Get. >It. But it's "All About Spike"! I feared the compare and contrast wouldn't be done right. I should never have feared, I should have know. >> The series should revolve around Cordelia with no >> >other distractions too, but Joss is too dumb to see that. >> >> Well, sure, but hey, his original mistake was naming it Angel, >> and not Cordy! > >Truer words were never spoken. Duh! >> >Still, they wrote "Lovers Walk" before Landau signed on, so that thing >> >about not writing a script until [Charisma] said yes was bullshit. >> >> Well duh. The final draft won't be ready till two minutes before the >> shoot though. > >I wonder if CC thinks that being sued for walking off the set is the >worst thing that could happen to her? Well, it's a one shot deal. Hold the nose and take the money and run. >Seriously, I think ME needs to tread carefully if they really do want >to bring CC back. Well, I see the obvious logic error there. :-) But you're right, IF they want to bring Cordelia back as a character, and thus CC, they really need to realize that jerking the actress around by jerking the character around isn't a good thing. I doubt Charisma will allow herself be fooled again >no matter how good the deal. The sad part is you can't rule out ME >intentionally sabotaging her appearence so as to be able to say that >it was Charisma who refused to come back and fulfill Joss' dream of >genius. I think Genius Joss has been shot to hell enough already. Screwing CC around again will only show who the jerk was to the rest of the acting community. >> >OTOH, the script snippet from ep 12 running around tends to suggest >> >that either ME is going to try and have it all by having Cordy "wake >> >up" as non-higher being, non-part-demon, and non-Vision Girl, >> >> As I told Lord Usher, his side will win. It's the series that's losing. > >The series has lost. No, it's worse than that. The series rights itself for just a couple of episodes and then plummets down to the depths. Just enought to keep your hopes up. Namely, S6-7 BtVS Redux. > Will they save the character? **GUFFAW** They can't save themselves. >> but >> >completely unaware of anything that happened last season, (more >> >likely, nothing since the "Birthday" coma) >> >> Ah, that still leaves the Connor problem, so they best have her not >> remember much of anything except S2. > >She seems to remember more than season 2 but none of season 4. Then >again, it's just two lines of dialog, so who knows? The Shadow? And the Connor >problem isn't an issue as long as Cordy's only a construct of Angel's >imagination. So will we be getting more Angel/Cordy sex? At least Angelus would be fun as the head of W&H. >> or have her be just a >> >construct of Angel's imagination. Since the latter is too horrible an >> >idea to comprehend, I imagine that's what's going to happen. >> >> Yep. > >And what a great way to waste CC's return. Well, there's my "Harm will drink ComaCordy dry and get the visions" as a even more wasteful way. Cordy will return for an episode and then probably never be brought up again. What a waste. >> >Anyway, I'd bet we aren't gonna get any concrete answers in any case, >> >so yeah, the whole bunch of them ought to be in Congress. >> >> You know, that might be the greatest insult either of us have come >> up with. :-) > >It's up there with calling an atheist God. That was a good revelation. Have to say the genesis of that thought was made by the numbers which posters were doing it. Of course that was before my exodus from those Buffy groups, thought the chronicles of it still remains available through Google. >> >All I really get from the graph is _Angel_ has a set core audience, >> >and said audience isn't going to get significantly larger or smaller, >> >so the WB just needs to deal with that. >> >> Usually they will by cutting either price or the show. They've cut >> price already. > >I guess. But there's something to be said about having a built-in >audience you can count on no matter how bad a series gets. Look how >long NBC has held onto _ER_. Winner of stretching an analogy goes too... ER was in the top 10 for seasons. A drop from there is still profitable. AtS drops that many points... Do they have negative ratings? >> >> Actually, my fanficish nature has me looking at "Cautionary Tale..." >> >> as the foreshadowing episode. I could see ME killing off Gunn, Wes, >> >> Lorne, and Fred (with Cordy gone to whatever), leaving Angel trapped in >> >> W&H alone, pushing papers, with Eve being the one running the show. >> > >> >Having not seen it, I'm unable to speak about it with any authority. >> >> Yeah, but will that stop you? > >Um... > >> >But I won't let that stop me. > >...no. I won't argue about it though. Awe, don't let a little thing like not knowing what you're talking about stop you. This is the Internet, you know. >> >But I won't let that stop me. I just wonder if WWF Wednesday was >> >intended to remind Angel that there will come a day in the natural >> >course of events when Gunn, Wesley, and Fred aren't going to be around >> >anyway. >> >> Nope. He was too busy wondering why his heart wasn't cut out. > >Okay. Wouldn't he turn to dust and stuff if his heart was cut out? The EET was cutting out & eating the hearts of heroes. He had Angel pinned and skipped the meal. No, it doesn't make much sense. It's BtVS sense. Willow unhappy that Spike can't "rape" her thang in The Initiative. >Never mind, I'll just go with it. Probably was told by the tree demon that it was a cold cut instead of a hot heart. >> Don't ask. Angel's a moron this season. > >This season? Even more of a moron. He's reaching for brain dead. Worse, he's becoming annoying. And no one's there to call him on it. Great orchestration of characters, Joss. >> >Season six opens with Angel, Spike, and Harmony in an all-vampire >> >version of "City Of". >> >> Just as long as Spike's a puff of smoke by midseason. > >Angel would go before Spike. But we'd get that great fight scene between the two trying to see who gets to save the world, just like the 10 year olds each are now. It's frightening that Harmony might be the most mature of the three. >> Yeah, besides, Joss probably likes to see himself as Spike more than >> Angel. > >Well, Spike's mother did come on to him. Say, there's those issues >again. Not touching that one with a 10 foot pole. >> Well, I'm now sure I won't care. Two good ones in a row and then >> Ugh! This last one sucked beyond the telling. Terribly written. > >Who wrote it? Steve and Dave. Neither wanted to accept the blame solely. >And was it worse than "Provider"? Just ahead of Provider and She. Not much though. >> >I wouldn't say Spike hasn't done a thing. >> >> No, he's made Angel act like a 10 year old. > >Unless Spike has the same power to usurp free will as Skip claimed >Jasmine had, it'd be more accurate to say Angel is acting like a 10 >year-old in reaction to Spike. Well, seeing how Spike claims that Angelus made him evil... Hey, just following ME's use of logic. >Wait; Spike -- Skip. Hmm... Naw, I liked Skip. OK, I use to like Spike, but that was years ago. >> >at least appears that for Spike, ME/WB traded that audience for the >> >shirtless-one-droolers. >> >> Yeah, but as you point out, AtS is basically stuck at what >> it is. Spike adding to it didn't do anything to break that. > >But Spike may have stabilized the loss that pimping the series out >caused. Seeing the 5 Star, it could be the pimping works more than Spike. I'm not saying bringing Spike over was a great idea, unless it >was to put Mr. Pointy to good use, but I think he did plug a hole >firing CC left. You mean the hole that shouldn't have been there in the first place? > All those people will have a job for at least one more >year, so on the surface it was worth a shot as opposed to the complete >non-chance of renewal _Angel_ had before Blondie Bore was brought >over. Show *business* and all that. But if CC's firing wasn't ordered by the suits, Spike's hiring wasn't ordered by the suits, and the storyline isn't ordered by the suits, then who the hell is to blame? Oh! >> >> >A network executive being less than candid? Say it ain't so! >> >> >> >> "It ain't so." >> > >> >Hmm, now to see if we can spark a huge debate over whether or not you >> >have a reason to lie about this. >> >> "Which lie did I tell him?" > >Isn't it "Which Lie Did I Tell?"? I ask 'cause I had to Google and >that was the only hit I got that made any sense. I'm still as accurate as ME. OK, one extra pronoun. It was just one! >> > It's like hearing there's going to >> >be a sequel to "The Matrix." Sounds good in theory, sucked in >> >execution. >> >> Gee, and here I was thinking about renting the DVD. Saved a few >> bucks. > >Well, the die-hard Matrix fan might like it. Well then, I saved on the rental. >> >> >Oh, I'd say CC is a work of art in her own right. >> >> >> >> Not arguing, just wondering how you'd get from Indy to her. >> > >> >A gift from God? >> >> Well, that'd be type casting then. > >"You chose wisely." Joss didn't. >> >> >So did Willow swing by to pick up some parts? >> >> >> >> Coming soon. >> > >> >Yeah? Hmm... >> >> If you want the spoilers.... > >Is it still a spoiler if you aren't gonna watch, or is it like reading >a novelization of the series? Naw, some Novelizations actually try to make sense of the episode's nonsense. Love to see the attempt at S4 by some writer. NonME writer, cause they'd be no hop with an ME writer. >> Oh screw spoiler space. Not like either of us are lasting the season. > >Or that anyone's reading this far into the thread. Only the disturbed. >> Willow's in charged of a crazed Slayer who cuts parts off of Spike. > >Wow. I'd heard about the Lindsey-izing X 2 of Spike and the crazy >Slayer, but I didn't know Willow was her Watcher. It would explain why >the Slayer is crazy, I guess. Or worse. Since I didn't hear she was her controlling Watcher, it might be that she comes in to become her Watcher. Talk about your potential punishment for being a naughty Slayer. Watcher Wicca Willow with Kennedy in tow. >"You'd be nuts too if you had to be around Kennedy all day, and all my >Watcher does is talk about me get my tongue pierced." Let alone the things they do with the Buffybot. "Willow is a lesbian. I'm now programmed to be one too. Are you a lesbian? Cause then we can talk about kd lang and Rosie ODonnell." >> Which makes you wonder about what sanity is in the MEverse. > >I suspect for Joss the definition of sanity is doing the same thing >over and over, hoping for a different result. Yep. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-22 18:13:46+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message news:20031120103151.01467.00000480@mb-m20.aol.com... > aej17DELETEME@comcast.net (A.E. Jabbour) wrote: > > >SWeick <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote: > > > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > > > There has been little > >that has been as entertaining on this group for the past > >couple of years. Really. > > > When Terry and I pass for the entertainment... > > Their rants are some of the best reading on this NG. Usually they don't mind minor interruptions. -- Best Regards, Linda The writers generally are better off when the humor comes from the characters instead of at their expense. SWeick, ATA

2003-11-22 18:32:24+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message news:20031121135517.02171.00000665@mb-m16.aol.com... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: Spoiler space- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- > > > >I hear MM's getting added to the opening credits come episode twelve. > > That's all we need. Another regular. > > > > > > >> Oh screw spoiler space. Not like either of us are lasting the season. > > > >Or that anyone's reading this far into the thread. > > > Only the disturbed. Or the truly entertained. Except for the spoilers but too late now. -- Best regards, Linda Angel's purpose will never leave. Not unless we all become angels, or he human. And even human his purpose is still there. There's not a lack of stories because you'll never run into the metaphor problems that BtVS has had. - Stephen Weick

2003-11-25 07:23:46-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031121135517.02171.00000665@mb-m16.aol.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031120014524.20316.00000623@mb-m04.aol.com>... > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > >> > >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >> >news:<20031118092243.22081.00001978@mb-m17.aol.com>... > > >> No, he's a Rogue Daddy Robot Gunner now. > > > >As long as it's only Daddy robots. I'd hate to think the BuffyBot > >could be in danger. > > Wicca Willow would protect it with her life. BuffyBot is worth more than that. > Cause Buffybot's batteries don't have to be replaced > nearly as often. And BuffyBot doesn't have to breathe. > And isn't as annoying as Kennedy. Or as annoying as Buffy. > >You're lusting after a comatose woman? Sick, man, sick. > > When it's the only shot you have with women anymore... Get a BuffyBot? > >> Not the worst idea I've heard. At least she'd have a clue about > >> writing Cordelia. > > > >At least the one bit of dialog in the casting side is Cordy-like. That > >may be the only bit of dialog that's Cordy-like, but it's a start. > > We have to grovel for morsels, I guess. Such as they are. The more I think about it though, the more I wonder if CC's doing the right thing. > >> Just as long as he brings his guitar and plays, it's all right > >> by me. > > > >You say that now, but you're screwed if you outlive Yoko. > > One minute after they start singing duets, they won't. One minute? You have a higher tolerance level than I do. > Hey, maybe then I can haunt them! Ghosts haunting other ghosts makes no sense. It'll probably happen in the next episode then. > >I hear MM's getting added to the opening credits come episode twelve. > > Hell with that. I want more Nekkid Harmony! The one doesn't preclude the other. > >You know, purely by coincidence, of course. No subliminal messages > >intended there. > > PFFFFFFFFT. It's probably just because the WB has told Joss to pack it up, so he put MM in the credits so she too could say she was a series regular. Slamming CC is just a bonus. > >Ah, yes. The movie for which the best review was, "Nicole Kidman has > >the nicest butt I've ever seen." And given that it was CC who gave > >that review, high praise indeed. > > So she doesn't look in a mirror to check her back skirt > lengths? Pretty much what I thought. Maybe she was just being magnaminous. Or no one gave her a copy of _Stuff_ magazine. > >> I'm still of the belief that a writer can write about issues without > >> having had those issues. That said, there are some undertones > >> that do make you wonder. > > > >It's when a theme exists seperately in different pieces of work that > >the subtext begins to become text. > > You mean Serenity, Jasmine, and Caleb like anvils? Or just > every Damn Daddy they've show? And ConCord, Spike's mom, Inara... > >> >Given that she claimed those scenes made her physically ill last > >> >season, I'm fairly certain that no more children-boinking was a > >> >condition of CC's return. > >> > >> We should be grateful for small favors. > > > >That's actually something that falls under the category of huge > >favors. > > No, that would be if parents wouldn't take their > kids to see Michael Jackson at his place and stay overnight. Well, I think it's a huge favor even if you don't have kids visiting a 45 year-old man who lives in a zoo. > But I guess that's asking too much from modern parents. Not to take anything away from Jackson's actions, 'cause he deserves the reception he's going to get in prison, but you do have to wonder what kind of parent would allow their child within 50 feet of Jackson. Yeah, okay, he's rich, so no prison. He and O.J. can join forces to find the real criminals. > >Well, they may have only one shot to try to explain what really > >happened last season. It's going to take the entire episode revolving > >around Cordelia to begin to make that happen. > > Seeing their attempts in Inside Out, not seeing them > being able to explain it in a full seasonal arc, let alone a short one. Naw. All they have to do is have RealSkip show up and explain how Jasmine just took advantage of a set of circumstances she had no hand in bringing about to further her own agenda. Problem solved. > Best that they just patch some holes and move on. Not enough spackle. Best they build a new wall. > Best patching, Cordy was up on high. Bad patching, > Cordy was trapped inside. > > (See previous argument.) Or the give up and go home patch: Cordy comes back to fulfill the Shanshu prophecy, takes one look at Angel and Spike, and makes Dennis a real person. Then they take off on Wesley's motorcycle. The end. > I expect it'll actually > >revolve around Angel angsting because Cordy's spending more time > >talking to Spike than him, but that's only because Joss. Doesn't. Get. > >It. > > But it's "All About Spike"! Silly me. > I feared the compare and contrast wouldn't be done right. > I should never have feared, I should have know. They've not used Spike effectively since season two of BtVS, so yeah. They're trying to force some kind of comparison between Spike and Angel, not realizing it was better done with the less literal comparison between Angel and Cordelia. Then again, subtlety seems to have been Greenwalt's forte. Until "Tomorrow," anyway. > >I wonder if CC thinks that being sued for walking off the set is the > >worst thing that could happen to her? > > Well, it's a one shot deal. Hold the nose and take > the money and run. Theoretically it's on open-ended deal. I suspect what ME does with it is what'll make it a one-shot deal. > >Seriously, I think ME needs to tread carefully if they really do want > >to bring CC back. > > Well, I see the obvious logic error there. :-) I acknowledge this is probably just stunt casting with no actual story necessity. > But you're right, IF they want to bring Cordelia back > as a character, and thus CC, they really need to realize > that jerking the actress around by jerking the character > around isn't a good thing. ISTM that even CC asking for script approval is a pretty clear sign that she no longer believes ME can be trusted with the character. Since she was defending Joss right up until the end of season four, I'd say that was one rude awakening. > I think Genius Joss has been shot to hell enough already. He's still a legend in his own mind. > Screwing CC around again will only show who the jerk > was to the rest of the acting community. Who will nevertheless flock to ME's casting calls. A job is a job is a job. > >> As I told Lord Usher, his side will win. It's the series that's losing. > > > >The series has lost. > > No, it's worse than that. The series rights itself > for just a couple of episodes and then plummets down > to the depths. Just enought to keep your hopes up. It's still a series disregarding its own mythology though, so it isn't like just because they do one or two watchable episodes, it's fixed. They gang of idiots are still working for W&H for no readily discernable reason, and have abandoned one of their own to concentrate on an interloper. The whole gang is useless. > Namely, S6-7 BtVS Redux. I'm sure there are still lower place Joss can go. He's an overachiever that way. > And the Connor > >problem isn't an issue as long as Cordy's only a construct of Angel's > >imagination. > > So will we be getting more Angel/Cordy sex? No. It's all about Buffy now. JiminyCricketCordy will probably have to remind Angel that his true prize is Buffy's freshly baked cookies. > At least Angelus would be fun as the head of W&H. He at least would have the talking and talking and talking without actually doing anything part down. > >And what a great way to waste CC's return. > > Well, there's my "Harm will drink ComaCordy dry and > get the visions" as a even more wasteful way. Almost as bad as Harmony turning ComaCordy so she can get her newly-retconned bestest friend ever back. > Cordy will return for an episode and then probably > never be brought up again. > > What a waste. I'd actually thought ME might want to bring her back on a semi-recurring basis, but now that the talk of SMG coming on for May sweeps is back, yes, I imagine there'll be no further mention of Cordy. Then again, if SMG is coming back for May sweeps, I think you can be fairly certain it's the last time _Angel_ will be involved in a sweeps period. > >I guess. But there's something to be said about having a built-in > >audience you can count on no matter how bad a series gets. Look how > >long NBC has held onto _ER_. > > Winner of stretching an analogy goes too... > > ER was in the top 10 for seasons. A drop from there is > still profitable. _ER_ hasn't been directly profitable for NBC since NBC started paying $10 million per episode. _AngeL_, OTOH, nets the WB ~$1.5 million when it airs, and, for reason's passing understanding, is a critical darling to boot. > AtS drops that many points... > > Do they have negative ratings? Maybe late night syndication. > >...no. I won't argue about it though. > > Awe, don't let a little thing like not knowing what you're > talking about stop you. > > This is the Internet, you know. Okay. You're wrong. Neener. > >> >But I won't let that stop me. I just wonder if WWF Wednesday was > >> >intended to remind Angel that there will come a day in the natural > >> >course of events when Gunn, Wesley, and Fred aren't going to be around > >> >anyway. > >> > >> Nope. He was too busy wondering why his heart wasn't cut out. > > > >Okay. Wouldn't he turn to dust and stuff if his heart was cut out? > > The EET was cutting out & eating the hearts of heroes. > He had Angel pinned and skipped the meal. Ah. So Angel isn't a hero? > No, it doesn't make much sense. It's BtVS sense. > Willow unhappy that Spike can't "rape" her thang > in The Initiative. So Angel is addicted to CrackMagicHeroism? > >Never mind, I'll just go with it. > > Probably was told by the tree demon that it was > a cold cut instead of a hot heart. It sounded familiar, like something that was done in "Couplet." Not that that's the episode _Angel_ should be trying to rip-off. > >> Don't ask. Angel's a moron this season. > > > >This season? > > Even more of a moron. He's reaching for brain dead. He must know BuffyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!!! is in his future. > Worse, he's becoming annoying. Becoming? > And no one's there to call him on it. Yeah. Wonder why that is? > Great orchestration of characters, Joss. He's a genius. > >Angel would go before Spike. > > But we'd get that great fight scene between the two > trying to see who gets to save the world, just like the > 10 year olds each are now. > > It's frightening that Harmony might be the most mature > of the three. Well, Cordy was always the smartest in the group when it was her, Angel, and Wes. Now that it's Harmony, Angel, and Spike, the bar can be lowered considerably. > >> Yeah, besides, Joss probably likes to see himself as Spike more than > >> Angel. > > > >Well, Spike's mother did come on to him. Say, there's those issues > >again. > > Not touching that one with a 10 foot pole. Would that that were Joss' philosophy as well. > >Who wrote it? > > Steve and Dave. > > Neither wanted to accept the blame solely. Misery loves company. > >And was it worse than "Provider"? > > Just ahead of Provider and She. Not much though. So in the "Carpe Noctem" range then. Okay. > >Unless Spike has the same power to usurp free will as Skip claimed > >Jasmine had, it'd be more accurate to say Angel is acting like a 10 > >year-old in reaction to Spike. > > Well, seeing how Spike claims that Angelus made him > evil... > > Hey, just following ME's use of logic. Well, there's precedent, I suppose. > >But Spike may have stabilized the loss that pimping the series out > >caused. > > Seeing the 5 Star, it could be the pimping works more > than Spike. Never underestimate the effect nudity has on ratings. At one time, _Baywatch_ was the most-watched TV series in the world. > I'm not saying bringing Spike over was a great idea, unless it > >was to put Mr. Pointy to good use, but I think he did plug a hole > >firing CC left. > > You mean the hole that shouldn't have been there in > the first place? Yes, that hole. Although I'm almost sympathetic to keeping Cordy out of the stupidity of the whole W&H thing. But that's something that never should have been either, so... > > All those people will have a job for at least one more > >year, so on the surface it was worth a shot as opposed to the complete > >non-chance of renewal _Angel_ had before Blondie Bore was brought > >over. Show *business* and all that. > > But if CC's firing wasn't ordered by the suits, Spike's hiring > wasn't ordered by the suits, and the storyline isn't ordered > by the suits, then who the hell is to blame? > > Oh! Exactly; it's Buffy's fault. > >> "Which lie did I tell him?" > > > >Isn't it "Which Lie Did I Tell?"? I ask 'cause I had to Google and > >that was the only hit I got that made any sense. > > I'm still as accurate as ME. > > OK, one extra pronoun. It was just one! Not to worry. I had to Google after all. > >Well, the die-hard Matrix fan might like it. > > Well then, I saved on the rental. And the aggravation of demanding your money and/or the two hours of your life back. ISTM a good video rental store would do that for its customers. > >"You chose wisely." > > Joss didn't. Yeah, well, he's the type to grab the gold cup with the inlaid gems anyway. > >Is it still a spoiler if you aren't gonna watch, or is it like reading > >a novelization of the series? > > Naw, some Novelizations actually try to make sense > of the episode's nonsense. Never read the novelization of "City Of" then? > Love to see the attempt at S4 by some writer. NonME > writer, cause they'd be no hop with an ME writer. Many a fanficcer has tried and done far, far better than ME did. > >> Oh screw spoiler space. Not like either of us are lasting the season. > > > >Or that anyone's reading this far into the thread. > > Only the disturbed. Well, it nust be really bad 'cause Linda's still hanging in there. > Or worse. Since I didn't hear she was her controlling > Watcher, it might be that she comes in to become > her Watcher. Oh. I hadn't heard anything at all, so I just assumed she was WillowWiccaWatcher. In fact, no spoiler sites I could find has this spoiler for the episode. > Talk about your potential punishment for being a > naughty Slayer. Watcher Wicca Willow with Kennedy > in tow. Sure. And Faith thought prison was tough. > >"You'd be nuts too if you had to be around Kennedy all day, and all my > >Watcher does is talk about me get my tongue pierced." > > Let alone the things they do with the Buffybot. Plus all the fighting over whose turn it is to clean the toys. Oh, knock it off. You were all thinking it. > "Willow is a lesbian. I'm now programmed to be > one too. Are you a lesbian? Cause then we can > talk about kd lang and Rosie ODonnell." Why would anyone want to talk about kd lang? Terry

2003-11-25 07:24:33-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


"Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:<YYNvb.1460441$Id.216752@news.easynews.com>... > "SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message > news:20031121135517.02171.00000665@mb-m16.aol.com... > > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > Spoiler space- > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > - > -- > > > > >I hear MM's getting added to the opening credits come episode twelve. > > > That's all we need. Another regular. One suspects she's getting added to the opening credits for the same reason as Andy Hallet was last season in addition to whatever Joss is trying to say by the timing of the action. But adding MM isn't a spoiler, is it? Didn't y'all know she was going to be around for most of the season? > > > >> Oh screw spoiler space. Not like either of us are lasting the > season. > > > > > >Or that anyone's reading this far into the thread. > > > > Only the disturbed. > > Or the truly entertained. Except for the spoilers but too late now. If it helps, the stuff about Cordy is just my opinion, and the stuff about Willow I couldn't find anywhere else, so it may just be rumor. Terry

2003-11-25 07:25:46-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


aej17DELETEME@comcast.net (A.E. Jabbour) wrote in message news:<bpj4m4$1jmm0r$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... > Terry McNeal <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote: > > aej17DELETEME@comcast.net (A.E. Jabbour) wrote in message news:<bpi2k7$1p8n9v$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... > > > So is Stephen over- or under-estimating Angel's and Spike's relative > > age? > > It would be difficult to actually underestimate, in this case. It sounds like Joss took his promise to turn _Angel_ into _Buffy 2: The L.A. Year_ seriously. > "I'm Shanshu." "No, I am." "I saved the world." "I saved it > more." I mean, there's just something about it ... Has anyone claimed the sixth grade defense yet? Terry

2003-11-25 17:00:35+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031121135517.02171.00000665@mb-m16.aol.com>... >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031120014524.20316.00000623@mb-m04.aol.com>... >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >> >news:<20031118092243.22081.00001978@mb-m17.aol.com>... >> >> >> No, he's a Rogue Daddy Robot Gunner now. >> > >> >As long as it's only Daddy robots. I'd hate to think the BuffyBot >> >could be in danger. >> >> Wicca Willow would protect it with her life. > >BuffyBot is worth more than that. Yeah, OK, but she'd protect it with Kennedy's life as well! OK, not much of an improvement. >> Cause Buffybot's batteries don't have to be replaced >> nearly as often. > >And BuffyBot doesn't have to breathe. There's that too. >> And isn't as annoying as Kennedy. > >Or as annoying as Buffy. She really really was a better Buffy than Buffy. >> >You're lusting after a comatose woman? Sick, man, sick. >> >> When it's the only shot you have with women anymore... > >Get a BuffyBot? If they were real, they'd be selling fast. I'd still wait for the CordyBot model myself. >> >> Not the worst idea I've heard. At least she'd have a clue about >> >> writing Cordelia. >> > >> >At least the one bit of dialog in the casting side is Cordy-like. That >> >may be the only bit of dialog that's Cordy-like, but it's a start. >> >> We have to grovel for morsels, I guess. > >Such as they are. The more I think about it though, the more I wonder >if CC's doing the right thing. Think "Baby's College Fund." Think "Baby's College Fund." Think "Baby's College Fund." It should get her through. >> >> Just as long as he brings his guitar and plays, it's all right >> >> by me. >> > >> >You say that now, but you're screwed if you outlive Yoko. >> >> One minute after they start singing duets, they won't. > >One minute? You have a higher tolerance level than I do. I've actually listen to the Ballet of John and Yoko and survived, though early on I wondered why they taped the screetchings of a cat being killed with John singing, but hey, after Number Nine, I figured it was some artsie thang. Then someone told me who that was. >> Hey, maybe then I can haunt them! > >Ghosts haunting other ghosts makes no sense. It'll probably happen in >the next episode then. Probably. >> >You know, purely by coincidence, of course. No subliminal messages >> >intended there. >> >> PFFFFFFFFT. > >It's probably just because the WB has told Joss to pack it up, so he >put MM in the credits so she too could say she was a series regular. >Slamming CC is just a bonus. Petty is as petty does. >> >Ah, yes. The movie for which the best review was, "Nicole Kidman has >> >the nicest butt I've ever seen." And given that it was CC who gave >> >that review, high praise indeed. >> >> So she doesn't look in a mirror to check her back skirt >> lengths? > >Pretty much what I thought. Maybe she was just being magnaminous. Or >no one gave her a copy of _Stuff_ magazine. I'd go with magnaminous. >> >> I'm still of the belief that a writer can write about issues without >> >> having had those issues. That said, there are some undertones >> >> that do make you wonder. >> > >> >It's when a theme exists seperately in different pieces of work that >> >the subtext begins to become text. >> >> You mean Serenity, Jasmine, and Caleb like anvils? Or just >> every Damn Daddy they've show? > >And ConCord, Spike's mom, Inara... Really hated moving to Britain, didn't he? >> >That's actually something that falls under the category of huge >> >favors. >> >> No, that would be if parents wouldn't take their >> kids to see Michael Jackson at his place and stay overnight. > >Well, I think it's a huge favor even if you don't have kids visiting a >45 year-old man who lives in a zoo. Really. >> But I guess that's asking too much from modern parents. > >Not to take anything away from Jackson's actions, 'cause he deserves >the reception he's going to get in prison, No, he deserves the Dahmer reception, but that's besides the point. but you do have to wonder >what kind of parent would allow their child within 50 feet of Jackson. Those with lawyers and no souls? >Yeah, okay, he's rich, so no prison. He and O.J. can join forces to >find the real criminals. AHA! So you are an ME writer! I'm sure that's their next pilot. (Really, is it that much different from Faith and Spike? ;-) >> Best patching, Cordy was up on high. Bad patching, >> Cordy was trapped inside. >> >> (See previous argument.) > >Or the give up and go home patch: Cordy comes back to fulfill the >Shanshu prophecy, takes one look at Angel and Spike, and makes Dennis >a real person. Then they take off on Wesley's motorcycle. The end. Better than what we'll be given. >> I expect it'll actually >> >revolve around Angel angsting because Cordy's spending more time >> >talking to Spike than him, but that's only because Joss. Doesn't. Get. >> >It. >> >> But it's "All About Spike"! > >Silly me. Really. Get with the program. >> >I wonder if CC thinks that being sued for walking off the set is the >> >worst thing that could happen to her? >> >> Well, it's a one shot deal. Hold the nose and take >> the money and run. > >Theoretically it's on open-ended deal. I suspect what ME does with it >is what'll make it a one-shot deal. I'm sure it's there to show how wrong those of us who criticize are. Cordy will be trapped within and come out to play. It'll be written to show that Joss is right, we are wrong, and he won't get the opposite will be shown as true. Which might be the highlight of episode 100. >> >Seriously, I think ME needs to tread carefully if they really do want >> >to bring CC back. >> >> Well, I see the obvious logic error there. :-) > >I acknowledge this is probably just stunt casting with no actual story >necessity. Duh! >> But you're right, IF they want to bring Cordelia back >> as a character, and thus CC, they really need to realize >> that jerking the actress around by jerking the character >> around isn't a good thing. > >ISTM that even CC asking for script approval is a pretty clear sign >that she no longer believes ME can be trusted with the character. >Since she was defending Joss right up until the end of season four, >I'd say that was one rude awakening. True. >> I think Genius Joss has been shot to hell enough already. > >He's still a legend in his own mind. True. >> Screwing CC around again will only show who the jerk >> was to the rest of the acting community. > >Who will nevertheless flock to ME's casting calls. A job is a job is a >job. At least with open eyes this time. >> >> As I told Lord Usher, his side will win. It's the series that's losing. >> > >> >The series has lost. >> >> No, it's worse than that. The series rights itself >> for just a couple of episodes and then plummets down >> to the depths. Just enought to keep your hopes up. > >It's still a series disregarding its own mythology though, so it isn't >like just because they do one or two watchable episodes, it's fixed. >They gang of idiots are still working for W&H for no readily >discernable reason, and have abandoned one of their own to concentrate >on an interloper. The whole gang is useless. Well, if they had more Nekkid Harmony... But other than that, yeah. >> Namely, S6-7 BtVS Redux. > >I'm sure there are still lower place Joss can go. He's an overachiever >that way. I think we can bet on it. >> And the Connor >> >problem isn't an issue as long as Cordy's only a construct of Angel's >> >imagination. >> >> So will we be getting more Angel/Cordy sex? > >No. It's all about Buffy now. JiminyCricketCordy will probably have to >remind Angel that his true prize is Buffy's freshly baked cookies. Couldn't he go for the BuffyBot? She's immortal and a much nicer person to boot. OK, so Willow would have to reprogram her again. >> At least Angelus would be fun as the head of W&H. > >He at least would have the talking and talking and talking without >actually doing anything part down. True. >> >And what a great way to waste CC's return. >> >> Well, there's my "Harm will drink ComaCordy dry and >> get the visions" as a even more wasteful way. > >Almost as bad as Harmony turning ComaCordy so she can get her >newly-retconned bestest friend ever back. Yeah, but evil vamp Cordy in the tight black pants, or miniskirt, of evil would make that at least worthwhile in some ways. The other makes nothing worthwhile. >> Cordy will return for an episode and then probably >> never be brought up again. >> >> What a waste. > >I'd actually thought ME might want to bring her back on a >semi-recurring basis, but now that the talk of SMG coming on for May >sweeps is back, yes, I imagine there'll be no further mention of >Cordy. So is this good or bad news? Then again, if SMG is coming back for May sweeps, I think you >can be fairly certain it's the last time _Angel_ will be involved in a >sweeps period. So is this good or bad news? >> >I guess. But there's something to be said about having a built-in >> >audience you can count on no matter how bad a series gets. Look how >> >long NBC has held onto _ER_. >> >> Winner of stretching an analogy goes too... >> >> ER was in the top 10 for seasons. A drop from there is >> still profitable. > >_ER_ hasn't been directly profitable for NBC since NBC started paying >$10 million per episode. _AngeL_, OTOH, nets the WB ~$1.5 million when >it airs, and, for reason's passing understanding, is a critical >darling to boot. _ER_ helps makes the night profitable and is used for promotion purposes. _Angel_ has to make a profit immediately, cause it sucks in reruns and doesn't draw enough to lead in an audience to another show. >> >> Nope. He was too busy wondering why his heart wasn't cut out. >> > >> >Okay. Wouldn't he turn to dust and stuff if his heart was cut out? >> >> The EET was cutting out & eating the hearts of heroes. >> He had Angel pinned and skipped the meal. > >Ah. So Angel isn't a hero? That's his lament. He's not a sandwich. >> No, it doesn't make much sense. It's BtVS sense. >> Willow unhappy that Spike can't "rape" her thang >> in The Initiative. > >So Angel is addicted to CrackMagicHeroism? Hedonist Angel of S5, if one can somehow get that Angel is a hedonist from anything on screen. But yeah, that seems to be the drift. >> >> Don't ask. Angel's a moron this season. >> > >> >This season? >> >> Even more of a moron. He's reaching for brain dead. > >He must know BuffyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!!! is in his future. Hasn't he heard of taking a walk in the sun then? Save yourself! >> Worse, he's becoming annoying. > >Becoming? Angel wasn't annoying all the time previously. >> And no one's there to call him on it. > >Yeah. Wonder why that is? > >> Great orchestration of characters, Joss. > >He's a genius. At what, we have no idea. >> >Angel would go before Spike. >> >> But we'd get that great fight scene between the two >> trying to see who gets to save the world, just like the >> 10 year olds each are now. >> >> It's frightening that Harmony might be the most mature >> of the three. > >Well, Cordy was always the smartest in the group when it was her, >Angel, and Wes. Now that it's Harmony, Angel, and Spike, the bar can >be lowered considerably. There is no bar there. >> >And was it worse than "Provider"? >> >> Just ahead of Provider and She. Not much though. > >So in the "Carpe Noctem" range then. Okay. Yeah, fair comp. >> I'm not saying bringing Spike over was a great idea, unless it >> >was to put Mr. Pointy to good use, but I think he did plug a hole >> >firing CC left. >> >> You mean the hole that shouldn't have been there in >> the first place? > >Yes, that hole. Although I'm almost sympathetic to keeping Cordy out >of the stupidity of the whole W&H thing. But that's something that >never should have been either, so... Seeing they successfully split the parties apart in S2, not seeing why Cordy couldn't be a part of S5 yet not in W&H. >> > All those people will have a job for at least one more >> >year, so on the surface it was worth a shot as opposed to the complete >> >non-chance of renewal _Angel_ had before Blondie Bore was brought >> >over. Show *business* and all that. >> >> But if CC's firing wasn't ordered by the suits, Spike's hiring >> wasn't ordered by the suits, and the storyline isn't ordered >> by the suits, then who the hell is to blame? >> >> Oh! > >Exactly; it's Buffy's fault. Actually, it does explain a bunch. >> >> "Which lie did I tell him?" >> > >> >Isn't it "Which Lie Did I Tell?"? I ask 'cause I had to Google and >> >that was the only hit I got that made any sense. >> >> I'm still as accurate as ME. >> >> OK, one extra pronoun. It was just one! > >Not to worry. I had to Google after all. Yeah, but the story he told fit so well with this conversation about suits. >> >"You chose wisely." >> >> Joss didn't. > >Yeah, well, he's the type to grab the gold cup with the inlaid gems >anyway. So he'll become a dried up corpse after he drinks from it? (That was it, wasn't it. Been a bit since I rewatched Indy Vs Bond.) >> >Is it still a spoiler if you aren't gonna watch, or is it like reading >> >a novelization of the series? >> >> Naw, some Novelizations actually try to make sense >> of the episode's nonsense. > >Never read the novelization of "City Of" then? Actually, no. If the episode's done well enough, I don't feel that need. >> >> Oh screw spoiler space. Not like either of us are lasting the season. >> > >> >Or that anyone's reading this far into the thread. >> >> Only the disturbed. > >Well, it nust be really bad 'cause Linda's still hanging in there. So S P O Oh please, since when have I been right? >> >"You'd be nuts too if you had to be around Kennedy all day, and all my >> >Watcher does is talk about me get my tongue pierced." >> >> Let alone the things they do with the Buffybot. > >Plus all the fighting over whose turn it is to clean the toys. > >Oh, knock it off. You were all thinking it. Well, maybe not, but after this they sure are. >> "Willow is a lesbian. I'm now programmed to be >> one too. Are you a lesbian? Cause then we can >> talk about kd lang and Rosie ODonnell." > >Why would anyone want to talk about kd lang? Hey, Willow did the programming. GIGO rules. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-25 22:22:44-06:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Lord Usher <lord_usher@hotmail.com>)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote in news:26b7e9d4.0311250723.5cccbc95@posting.google.com: >> Or worse. Since I didn't hear she was her controlling >> Watcher, it might be that she comes in to become >> her Watcher. > > Oh. I hadn't heard anything at all, so I just assumed she was > WillowWiccaWatcher. In fact, no spoiler sites I could find has this > spoiler for the episode. You guys have been puzzling over this particular element for a while now, guys, so I just wanted to jump in for a sec and point out that I don't think this spoiler is correct. I've seen no indication on any of the reputable spoiler boards that I frequent that Willow is involved in the episode in question, as a Wiccan, a Watcher, or anything else. -- Lord Usher "I'm here to kill you, not to judge you."

2003-11-26 04:09:37+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:26b7e9d4.0311250724.3d5086e@posting.google.com... > "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:<YYNvb.1460441$Id.216752@news.easynews.com>... > > "SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message > > news:20031121135517.02171.00000665@mb-m16.aol.com... > > > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > > > Spoiler space- > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > - > > -- > > > > > > >I hear MM's getting added to the opening credits come episode twelve. > > > > > That's all we need. Another regular. > > One suspects she's getting added to the opening credits for the same > reason as Andy Hallet was last season in addition to whatever Joss is > trying to say by the timing of the action. > > But adding MM isn't a spoiler, is it? Didn't y'all know she was going > to be around for most of the season? I knew she was going to be in most of them but I didn't know she was going to be in the opening credits as a regular. > > > > > >> Oh screw spoiler space. Not like either of us are lasting the > > season. > > > > > > > >Or that anyone's reading this far into the thread. > > > > > > Only the disturbed. > > > > Or the truly entertained. Except for the spoilers but too late now. > > If it helps, the stuff about Cordy is just my opinion, and the stuff > about Willow I couldn't find anywhere else, so it may just be rumor. It helps. I'm really trying to stay spoiler-free so I'm picking and choosing the threads and posters to read. -- Best regards, Linda Mmmmmm......Angel

2003-11-26 04:39:44+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. - (aej17DELETEME@comcast.net)


Terry McNeal <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote: > aej17DELETEME@comcast.net (A.E. Jabbour) wrote in message news:<bpj4m4$1jmm0r$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... >> Terry McNeal <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > aej17DELETEME@comcast.net (A.E. Jabbour) wrote in message news:<bpi2k7$1p8n9v$1@ID-137314.news.uni-berlin.de>... >> >> > So is Stephen over- or under-estimating Angel's and Spike's relative >> > age? >> >> It would be difficult to actually underestimate, in this case. > > It sounds like Joss took his promise to turn _Angel_ into _Buffy 2: > The L.A. Year_ seriously. You bet. And they are just as mature as they were on BtVS. >> "I'm Shanshu." "No, I am." "I saved the world." "I saved it >> more." I mean, there's just something about it ... > > Has anyone claimed the sixth grade defense yet? No, but they will soon. Actually, I think 6th is pretty advanced. I'm looking at probably 4th soon. -- AE Jabbour "I mean, I may have ripped off Vertigo, The Shining, James Ellroy, James M. Cain, Barton Fink, Rebel Without a Cause, Vertigo, Psycho, Kiss Me Deadly, Double Indemnity and The Hudsucker Proxy - but I'm certainly no plagiarist!" Tim Minear, alt.tv.angel, 10.05.2000

2003-11-26 11:17:38-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031125120035.08082.00000508@mb-m03.aol.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031121135517.02171.00000665@mb-m16.aol.com>... > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > >> > >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >> >news:<20031120014524.20316.00000623@mb-m04.aol.com>... > > >> And isn't as annoying as Kennedy. > > > >Or as annoying as Buffy. > > She really really was a better Buffy than Buffy. "That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, Bingo" is arguably the most profound thing to come out of BtVS' later seasons. > I'd still wait for the CordyBot model myself. Now you're talking. > >Such as they are. The more I think about it though, the more I wonder > >if CC's doing the right thing. > > Think "Baby's College Fund." Think "Baby's College Fund." > Think "Baby's College Fund." > > It should get her through. You may have seen Chrissy's post, but if not, CC's doing a third episode of _Miss Match_. Can the Serena spin-off be far behind? Can it please be better than _Miss Match_? And in the MM episode airing December 12, Serena asks Kate to help her adopt a baby no matter what the job consequences are. The irony is thick enough to deflect gamma rays. > I've actually listen to the Ballet of John and Yoko and survived, though > early on I wondered why they taped the screetchings of a cat > being killed with John singing, but hey, after Number Nine, I figured > it was some artsie thang. > > Then someone told me who that was. Yeah? I have to confess I was never a big Lennon fan. That's a hold-over from my days of never being a big Beatles fan, I guess. Anything more than "So This Is Christmas" and I'm yawning. > >It's probably just because the WB has told Joss to pack it up, so he > >put MM in the credits so she too could say she was a series regular. > >Slamming CC is just a bonus. > > Petty is as petty does. Ms McNab said she wasn't going to be added to the opening credits, so that could be wrong too. But I hear Sarah Thompson has been cast as a regular on _In the Line of Fire_, so the anti-Eve'rs may have something to celebrate. > >> You mean Serenity, Jasmine, and Caleb like anvils? Or just > >> every Damn Daddy they've show? > > > >And ConCord, Spike's mom, Inara... > > Really hated moving to Britain, didn't he? Well, he hated the all-boys prep school anyway. > >> But it's "All About Spike"! > > > >Silly me. > > Really. Get with the program. I'm still trying to deprogram from it's all about Buffy. > >Theoretically it's on open-ended deal. I suspect what ME does with it > >is what'll make it a one-shot deal. > > I'm sure it's there to show how wrong those of us who criticize are. > Cordy will be trapped within and come out to play. It'll be written > to show that Joss is right, we are wrong, and he won't get the > opposite will be shown as true. The level of just-don't-get-it-ness Joss sometimes exhibits is really astounding. I imagine it has something to do with being too close to the work. He thinks the story in his head is the one that played out on-screen, I suppose. How he can leave Skip unchallenged and still believe he's telling a story that people should think matters is beyond me. You know, if it was Skip... > Which might be the highlight of episode 100. Chrissy also said that the 100th episode would please everyone. Very likely Chrissy has never seen this newsgroup. > >> So will we be getting more Angel/Cordy sex? > > > >No. It's all about Buffy now. JiminyCricketCordy will probably have to > >remind Angel that his true prize is Buffy's freshly baked cookies. > > Couldn't he go for the BuffyBot? She's immortal and a much > nicer person to boot. You know how at one time Xander was too good for Buffy, then Joss turned Xander into a complete waste of time and suddenly he was Buffy's perfect match? Well, right now, Angel's not good enough for Cordy and about right for BuffyBot. By the end of the season, he'll be Buffy's perfect match. OTOH, Fred and the BuffyBot means no reprogramming needed. > Yeah, but evil vamp Cordy in the tight black pants, or miniskirt, > of evil would make that at least worthwhile in some ways. The other > makes nothing worthwhile. Eh, if Joss was going to play fair, Angel, Spike, and Harmony would be dust, Wes, Gunn, and Fred would be dead, Lorne would be VampCordy's personal bitch, and the Senior Partners would address VampCordy as 'Mistress'. Anything else Joss did with VampCordy would be a cheat. > >I'd actually thought ME might want to bring her back on a > >semi-recurring basis, but now that the talk of SMG coming on for May > >sweeps is back, yes, I imagine there'll be no further mention of > >Cordy. > > So is this good or bad news? College fund? But it looks like Darren Star is taking care of that, so possibly that's not a factor. On a personal level, as long as I can get my CC fix elsewhere, who cares? > Then again, if SMG is coming back for May sweeps, I think you > >can be fairly certain it's the last time _Angel_ will be involved in a > >sweeps period. > > So is this good or bad news? An eye of the beholder question. > >_ER_ hasn't been directly profitable for NBC since NBC started paying > >$10 million per episode. _AngeL_, OTOH, nets the WB ~$1.5 million when > >it airs, and, for reason's passing understanding, is a critical > >darling to boot. > > _ER_ helps makes the night profitable and is used for promotion purposes. No doubt. > _Angel_ has to make a profit immediately, Again, _Angel_ brings in ~$1.5 million per episode in ad revenue. > cause it sucks in reruns Does _Smallville_? I ask 'cause I heard SV is going on hiatus 'til January along with _Angel_. > and doesn't draw enough to lead in an audience to another show. Lucky then there's no WB programming after ten P.M. > >So Angel is addicted to CrackMagicHeroism? > > Hedonist Angel of S5, if one can somehow get that Angel is a > hedonist from anything on screen. > > But yeah, that seems to be the drift. Way too confused by this. Angel wants to be the big-time hero and bask in la vida loca? Does he think he's Bruce Wayne? > >He must know BuffyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!!! is in his future. > > Hasn't he heard of taking a walk in the sun then? Save yourself! But he's hoping for his reward by then, so walking in the sun won't help. > >> Worse, he's becoming annoying. > > > >Becoming? > > Angel wasn't annoying all the time previously. Maybe not all the time. But then, Cordy worked hard to make sure he wasn't annoying all the time. > >He's a genius. > > At what, we have no idea. Finding a lower place? > >Well, Cordy was always the smartest in the group when it was her, > >Angel, and Wes. Now that it's Harmony, Angel, and Spike, the bar can > >be lowered considerably. > > There is no bar there. Makes sense. You can't have a bar if your storytelling technique makes a first-grade reading primer look complex. > >Yes, that hole. Although I'm almost sympathetic to keeping Cordy out > >of the stupidity of the whole W&H thing. But that's something that > >never should have been either, so... > > Seeing they successfully split the parties apart in S2, not seeing > why Cordy couldn't be a part of S5 yet not in W&H. They split the group apart and we spent 75% of the time watching Angel mope, 25% of the time on the three other characters. If Cordy existed on the series apart from the W&H storyline, you'd see and hear as much about her as you do now. > >Exactly; it's Buffy's fault. > > Actually, it does explain a bunch. Yes. Yes, it does. > >> >Isn't it "Which Lie Did I Tell?"? I ask 'cause I had to Google and > >> >that was the only hit I got that made any sense. > >> > >> I'm still as accurate as ME. > >> > >> OK, one extra pronoun. It was just one! > > > >Not to worry. I had to Google after all. > > Yeah, but the story he told fit so well with this conversation about > suits. I can understand his frustration to a point, said point being "Magic." That he wrote "Magic" clouds the issue behind the reason he was banned from Hollywood. > >Yeah, well, he's the type to grab the gold cup with the inlaid gems > >anyway. > > So he'll become a dried up corpse after he drinks from it? > > (That was it, wasn't it. Been a bit since I rewatched Indy Vs Bond.) Went past dried up corpse to full-on skeleton and thence to dust. The opposite of eternal life, if you will. > >Never read the novelization of "City Of" then? > > Actually, no. If the episode's done well enough, I don't feel > that need. It wasn't need as much as curiosity. And it wasn't that bad, but it strayed into a lot of flashbacks and other stuff that never happened in the episode. > >> Let alone the things they do with the Buffybot. > > > >Plus all the fighting over whose turn it is to clean the toys. > > > >Oh, knock it off. You were all thinking it. > > Well, maybe not, but after this they sure are. My first response was so bad, it might have gotten me TOS'd off of Usenet. I should post it to alt.erotic.toys. > >Why would anyone want to talk about kd lang? > > Hey, Willow did the programming. GIGO rules. I see your point. I wonder if Willow has "Yoko's Greatest Hits"? Oh, and it's not nudity or anything, but it's less than she usually wore on BtVS: <http://buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=2931> and <http://buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=2960> Terry

2003-11-26 11:20:05-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


"Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:<4IVwb.1770929$Of.263964@news.easynews.com>... > "Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:26b7e9d4.0311250724.3d5086e@posting.google.com... > > "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message > news:<YYNvb.1460441$Id.216752@news.easynews.com>... > > > "SWeick" <sweick@aol.commmmmmmm> wrote in message > > > news:20031121135517.02171.00000665@mb-m16.aol.com... > > > > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > > > > > Spoiler space- > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > - > > > -- > > > But adding MM isn't a spoiler, is it? Didn't y'all know she was going > > to be around for most of the season? > > I knew she was going to be in most of them but I didn't know she was going > to be in the opening credits as a regular. MM said she wasn't getting added to the credits when she was asked at some convention over the weekend. Oh look, another runor. ;) > It helps. I'm really trying to stay spoiler-free so I'm picking and choosing > the threads and posters to read. Are you staying spoiler-free 'cause you know you'd run screaming from the room if you knew how bad it's going to get? Terry

2003-11-26 20:45:05+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) wrote: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031125120035.08082.00000508@mb-m03.aol.com>... >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031121135517.02171.00000665@mb-m16.aol.com>... >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >> >news:<20031120014524.20316.00000623@mb-m04.aol.com>... >> [re: the Buffybot] >> >Or as annoying as Buffy. >> >> She really really was a better Buffy than Buffy. > >"That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, Bingo" is arguably the most >profound thing to come out of BtVS' later seasons. Sadly, yes. >> I'd still wait for the CordyBot model myself. > >Now you're talking. It'd be the best seller for sure. >You may have seen Chrissy's post, but if not, CC's doing a third >episode of _Miss Match_. Can the Serena spin-off be far behind? Can it >please be better than _Miss Match_? Not hard. >And in the MM episode airing December 12, Serena asks Kate to help her >adopt a baby no matter what the job consequences are. The irony is >thick enough to deflect gamma rays. Snirk. >I have to confess I was never a big Lennon fan. That's a >hold-over from my days of never being a big Beatles fan, I guess. >Anything more than "So This Is Christmas" and I'm yawning. Oh, I like a bunch of the stuff. Then again, isn't that like Angel liking Spike's poetry? >But I hear Sarah Thompson has been cast as a >regular on _In the Line of Fire_, so the anti-Eve'rs may have >something to celebrate. Seeing that she's been in the line of fire on this newsgroup... Man, talk about some of the bitchiest, meanspirited, low blow, sarcastic comments not made by you and I against Joss... She's better off of course. >> >> You mean Serenity, Jasmine, and Caleb like anvils? Or just >> >> every Damn Daddy they've show? >> > >> >And ConCord, Spike's mom, Inara... >> >> Really hated moving to Britain, didn't he? > >Well, he hated the all-boys prep school anyway. And who brought him there? :-) (No, Terry and I aren't hinting that Joss has mommy issues.) >> >> But it's "All About Spike"! >> > >> >Silly me. >> >> Really. Get with the program. > >I'm still trying to deprogram from it's all about Buffy. Why? It still is. BTW, if SMG does come back, make it as the Buffybot. >> >Theoretically it's on open-ended deal. I suspect what ME does with it >> >is what'll make it a one-shot deal. >> >> I'm sure it's there to show how wrong those of us who criticize are. >> Cordy will be trapped within and come out to play. It'll be written >> to show that Joss is right, we are wrong, and he won't get the >> opposite will be shown as true. > >The level of just-don't-get-it-ness Joss sometimes exhibits is really >astounding. I imagine it has something to do with being too close to >the work. He thinks the story in his head is the one that played out >on-screen, I suppose. How he can leave Skip unchallenged and still >believe he's telling a story that people should think matters is >beyond me. You know, if it was Skip... Yeah, but that would get in the way of telling that important story: Spike. >> Which might be the highlight of episode 100. > >Chrissy also said that the 100th episode would please everyone. Very >likely Chrissy has never seen this newsgroup. Really! Cause if there isn't nekkid Cordy, BTR will be disappointed. :-) >> >> So will we be getting more Angel/Cordy sex? >> > >> >No. It's all about Buffy now. JiminyCricketCordy will probably have to >> >remind Angel that his true prize is Buffy's freshly baked cookies. >> >> Couldn't he go for the BuffyBot? She's immortal and a much >> nicer person to boot. > >You know how at one time Xander was too good for Buffy, then Joss >turned Xander into a complete waste of time and suddenly he was >Buffy's perfect match? Well, right now, Angel's not good enough for >Cordy and about right for BuffyBot. By the end of the season, he'll be >Buffy's perfect match. Sigh. I know. >OTOH, Fred and the BuffyBot means no reprogramming needed. Naw, Fred straight! >> Yeah, but evil vamp Cordy in the tight black pants, or miniskirt, >> of evil would make that at least worthwhile in some ways. The other >> makes nothing worthwhile. > >Eh, if Joss was going to play fair, Angel, Spike, and Harmony would be >dust, Wes, Gunn, and Fred would be dead, Lorne would be VampCordy's >personal bitch, and the Senior Partners would address VampCordy as >'Mistress'. Well, duh! > Anything else Joss did with VampCordy would be a cheat. Like that would bother him? >> >I'd actually thought ME might want to bring her back on a >> >semi-recurring basis, but now that the talk of SMG coming on for May >> >sweeps is back, yes, I imagine there'll be no further mention of >> >Cordy. >> >> So is this good or bad news? > >College fund? But it looks like Darren Star is taking care of that, so >possibly that's not a factor. That's of the good. >On a personal level, as long as I can get my CC fix elsewhere, who >cares? True, though I'm still holding hopes that AH will decide that CC would make a perfect foil for her character in her sitcom. >> >_ER_ hasn't been directly profitable for NBC since NBC started paying >> >$10 million per episode. _AngeL_, OTOH, nets the WB ~$1.5 million when >> >it airs, and, for reason's passing understanding, is a critical >> >darling to boot. >> >> _ER_ helps makes the night profitable and is used for promotion purposes. > >No doubt. > >> _Angel_ has to make a profit immediately, > >Again, _Angel_ brings in ~$1.5 million per episode in ad revenue. OK, nets or brings in? Cause there is a diff. Either way, AtS has to make money for the WB, which is why the cut in what the WB was willing to pay. >> cause it sucks in reruns > >Does _Smallville_? I ask 'cause I heard SV is going on hiatus 'til >January along with _Angel_. Wanna bet which show has more reruns shown? :-) Besides, I though all these shows went on breaks for the holiday. But what do I know. >> and doesn't draw enough to lead in an audience to another show. > >Lucky then there's no WB programming after ten P.M. Or one after ER? >> >So Angel is addicted to CrackMagicHeroism? >> >> Hedonist Angel of S5, if one can somehow get that Angel is a >> hedonist from anything on screen. >> >> But yeah, that seems to be the drift. > >Way too confused by this. You're confused? Hell, I've read the thread and I'm still confused. Guess it has something to do with making Spike look good. See, Spike's a romantic in the storytelling romanticism kinda way (Save me Mark Twain!) . Guess romantic means you tell Harm she has a pretty skirt before hopping on her instead of what the souless Spike who would have, just hop on her. Angel wants to be the big-time hero and bask >in la vida loca? Does he think he's Bruce Wayne? Well, he sure ain't Batman. Though don't you long for those S1 days? But yeah, I think the idea is that Angel will be trapped by the better life he's having with W&H. He'll become a hedonist, cause that way Spike is shown in the better light. Cause it's all about Spike. Till the Buffybot shows up. >> >He must know BuffyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!!! is in his future. >> >> Hasn't he heard of taking a walk in the sun then? Save yourself! > >But he's hoping for his reward by then, so walking in the sun won't >help. Hey, then there's throwing yourself in front of a truck, jumping off of high buildings, shotguns to the head... I mean, would you wish that on Angel, no matter how be a jerk he's becoming? Besides, Spike's seconds? >> >> Worse, he's becoming annoying. >> > >> >Becoming? >> >> Angel wasn't annoying all the time previously. > >Maybe not all the time. But then, Cordy worked hard to make sure he >wasn't annoying all the time. True enough. Way to orchestrate characters, Joss. >> >He's a genius. >> >> At what, we have no idea. > >Finding a lower place? Well, after three seasons, yes. >> >Yes, that hole. Although I'm almost sympathetic to keeping Cordy out >> >of the stupidity of the whole W&H thing. But that's something that >> >never should have been either, so... >> >> Seeing they successfully split the parties apart in S2, not seeing >> why Cordy couldn't be a part of S5 yet not in W&H. > >They split the group apart and we spent 75% of the time watching Angel >mope, 25% of the time on the three other characters. If Cordy existed >on the series apart from the W&H storyline, you'd see and hear as much >about her as you do now. Hey, 25% of a show with some Cordy in each is better than 1/22 of a show with one shot of Cordy. >> >Exactly; it's Buffy's fault. >> >> Actually, it does explain a bunch. > >Yes. Yes, it does. Yepper. >> >Yeah, well, he's the type to grab the gold cup with the inlaid gems >> >anyway. >> >> So he'll become a dried up corpse after he drinks from it? >> >> (That was it, wasn't it. Been a bit since I rewatched Indy Vs Bond.) > >Went past dried up corpse to full-on skeleton and thence to dust. The >opposite of eternal life, if you will. So "Drink up Joss"? > >> >> Let alone the things they do with the Buffybot. >> > >> >Plus all the fighting over whose turn it is to clean the toys. >> > >> >Oh, knock it off. You were all thinking it. >> >> Well, maybe not, but after this they sure are. > >My first response was so bad, it might have gotten me TOS'd off of >Usenet. Nope. Gotta be a lot worse than that to get TOSed, even on AOL as your ISP. Besides, playing with toys and then having to clean up isn't something that bad. Now if they're Tonka Trucks, they shouldn't be that hard to clean up. And really how hard can those women be on toys like Barbie dolls, Tonka trucks, Tinker Toys, Candyland games, etc. > I should post it to alt.erotic.toys. There's an alt.erotic.toys? >> >Why would anyone want to talk about kd lang? >> >> Hey, Willow did the programming. GIGO rules. > >I see your point. I wonder if Willow has "Yoko's Greatest Hits"? Yoko had a hit? >Oh, and it's not nudity or anything, but it's less than she usually >wore on BtVS: <http://buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=2931> and ><http://buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=2960> Well, that's what she should have been wearing. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-27 17:41:54+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:26b7e9d4.0311261120.35976bfb@posting.google.com... > "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:<4IVwb.1770929> > > > > > Are you staying spoiler-free 'cause you know you'd run screaming from > the room if you knew how bad it's going to get? Partially. I want to stay spoiler-free so that I won't skip an episode if I know it's going to be all about Spike. Such as Hellbound, an episode I won't ever watch again regardless of the couch scene which is the only good part of that episode. I rated it lower than both Provider (Which I still like) and She and don't consider it part of this season at all. -- Best regards, Linda Mmmmmm......Angel

2003-11-27 17:53:18+00:00 - Himiko read this! - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:26b7e9d4.0311261117.72a30b28@posting.google.com... > sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031125120035.08082.00000508@mb-m03.aol.com>... > > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > > > Ms McNab said she wasn't going to be added to the opening credits, so > that could be wrong too. But I hear Sarah Thompson has been cast as a > regular on _In the Line of Fire_, so the anti-Eve'rs may have > something to celebrate. OH Thank G*d! I sure hope it's true. -- Best regards, Linda Mmmmmm......Angel

2003-11-28 16:20:07-08:00 - Re: Himiko read this! - (himiko@animail.net)


"Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:<iSqxb.1801257$Id.273298@news.easynews.com>... > "Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:26b7e9d4.0311261117.72a30b28@posting.google.com... > > sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > news:<20031125120035.08082.00000508@mb-m03.aol.com>... > > > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > > > > > > Ms McNab said she wasn't going to be added to the opening credits, so > > that could be wrong too. But I hear Sarah Thompson has been cast as a > > regular on _In the Line of Fire_, so the anti-Eve'rs may have > > something to celebrate. > > OH Thank G*d! I sure hope it's true. Me too. I can't believe anyone else hired her, but who cares. If it gets her out of AtS, it's all good. Thanks for posting this specially. I'm having computer problems so my on-line time is cut at the moment and I do miss stuff. himiko

2003-11-29 19:26:37+00:00 - Re: Himiko read this! - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"himiko" <himiko@animail.net> wrote in message news:c7902983.0311281620.7b3ad125@posting.google.com... > "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:<iSqxb.1801257$Id.273298@news.easynews.com>... > > "Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:26b7e9d4.0311261117.72a30b28@posting.google.com... > > > sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > > news:<20031125120035.08082.00000508@mb-m03.aol.com>... > > > > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ms McNab said she wasn't going to be added to the opening credits, so > > > that could be wrong too. But I hear Sarah Thompson has been cast as a > > > regular on _In the Line of Fire_, so the anti-Eve'rs may have > > > something to celebrate. > > > > OH Thank G*d! I sure hope it's true. > > Me too. I can't believe anyone else hired her, but who cares. If it > gets her out of AtS, it's all good. > > Thanks for posting this specially. I'm having computer problems so my > on-line time is cut at the moment and I do miss stuff. Well, it was buried deep in the Terry/Stephen thread and I wasn't sure you would read that far into it. Good news if it's true. -- Best Regards, Linda Lindsey - "How did you think this would end?" - The Trial

2003-11-29 19:34:39-08:00 - Re: Himiko read this! - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


"Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:<iSqxb.1801257$Id.273298@news.easynews.com>... > "Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:26b7e9d4.0311261117.72a30b28@posting.google.com... > > sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > news:<20031125120035.08082.00000508@mb-m03.aol.com>... > > > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > > > > > > Ms McNab said she wasn't going to be added to the opening credits, so > > that could be wrong too. But I hear Sarah Thompson has been cast as a > > regular on _In the Line of Fire_, so the anti-Eve'rs may have > > something to celebrate. > > OH Thank G*d! I sure hope it's true. Ah, well, now Sarah Thompson is telling a different story in _Dreamwatch_ about hoping to be picked up as a regular. Apparently the _Line of Fire_ gig is recurring, not regular. Blame Wrongda, okay? It's not my fault; I just don't care. Terry

2003-11-29 19:55:50-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031126154505.05279.00000685@mb-m21.aol.com>... > Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) wrote: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031125120035.08082.00000508@mb-m03.aol.com>... > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > >> > >But I hear Sarah Thompson has been cast as a > >regular on _In the Line of Fire_, so the anti-Eve'rs may have > >something to celebrate. > > Seeing that she's been in the line of fire on this newsgroup... Well, I guess the _Line of Fire_ job is recurring. She told _Dreamwatch_ she's hoping to be picked up as a regular on _Angel_. > Man, talk about some of the bitchiest, meanspirited, low > blow, sarcastic comments not made by you and I against Joss... Well, maybe now that it's clear that Eve isn't coming between BuffyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, they'll back off. None of the Wesleyan's are Wes/Eve 'shippers are they? 'Cause obviously that'll also cause some acting talent disparagement. > She's better off of course. ST may find that out someday. > >Well, he hated the all-boys prep school anyway. > > And who brought him there? :-) Daddy. What was the reason, I wonder? > (No, Terry and I aren't hinting that Joss has mommy issues.) True, not hinting. Saying it outright. Not hinting. > >I'm still trying to deprogram from it's all about Buffy. > > Why? It still is. Yeah, I know. > Yeah, but that would get in the way of telling that important story: > Spike. I get conflicting reports. On the one side, "they" say It's. All. About. Spike. On the other side, "they" think Spike is just there like so much useless baggage. That both sides agree Spike is not doing anything good for _Angel_ is pretty amazing, but which has it right? > >On a personal level, as long as I can get my CC fix elsewhere, who > >cares? > > True, though I'm still holding hopes that AH will decide that CC would > make a perfect foil for her character in her sitcom. Nope. The one good thing to emerge from "See Jane Date" is the irrefutable evidence that Charisma's more than ready to lead her own series. If Hannigan wants to play Rhoda to CC's Mary Richards, fine. But CC needs to be the one being foiled. She's grown out of being the foiler. > >Again, _Angel_ brings in ~$1.5 million per episode in ad revenue. > > OK, nets or brings in? Cause there is a diff. Gross, I imagine. Both the income and the source, of course. > >Does _Smallville_? I ask 'cause I heard SV is going on hiatus 'til > >January along with _Angel_. > > Wanna bet which show has more reruns shown? :-) > > Besides, I though all these shows went on breaks for the holiday. > > But what do I know. Well, I'm sure SV will get rerun more being as it has been in the past. I was just curious if it too had traditionally low rerun ratings. > Guess romantic means you tell Harm she has a pretty skirt before > hopping on her instead of what the souless Spike who would have, > just hop on her. Well, a girl likes to be noticed. Harmony probably appreciates the guy remembering her name. BTW, I knew a woman who had her name tattooed just above her pubic area specifically for that reason. > Well, he sure ain't Batman. Though don't you long for those > S1 days? I've come to the conclusion that whatever Quinn was doing, they should have just sucked it up and dealt with it. > >But he's hoping for his reward by then, so walking in the sun won't > >help. > > Hey, then there's throwing yourself in front of a truck, jumping off of high > buildings, shotguns to the head... > > I mean, would you wish that on Angel, no matter how be a jerk > he's becoming? Look, he couldn't see the hottie in front of him so yeah, I wish Angel nothing but what he asks for. > Besides, Spike's seconds? Maybe he figures it's better than Connor's seconds. > >Maybe not all the time. But then, Cordy worked hard to make sure he > >wasn't annoying all the time. > > True enough. > > Way to orchestrate characters, Joss. Well, he'll fix it. Trust the story teller, not the... No, wait... Trust the story, not the... No, can't do that either. Um, I'll have to get back to you. > >> >He's a genius. > >> > >> At what, we have no idea. > > > >Finding a lower place? > > Well, after three seasons, yes. Two and a half in _Angel_'s case, and Micky has retroactively made me see that he really lost it when "Enemies" aired, so he didn't get three full seasons on BtVS either. > > I should post it to alt.erotic.toys. > > There's an alt.erotic.toys? If there isn't, there ought to be. Terry

2003-11-29 20:05:02-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


"Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:<CHqxb.862016$be.125774@news.easynews.com>... > "Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:26b7e9d4.0311261120.35976bfb@posting.google.com... > > "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message > news:<4IVwb.1770929> > > > > > > > Are you staying spoiler-free 'cause you know you'd run screaming from > > the room if you knew how bad it's going to get? > > Partially. I want to stay spoiler-free so that I won't skip an episode if I > know it's going to be all about Spike. Well, why put yourself through it? I mean, I'm going to hunt down every spoiler I can find about CC's episode just so I can guage how much more damage they intend to do to the character before I confirm my decision to continue to not watch the series. And I was told that none of the episodes are connected anyway so as to facilitate easy story entrance for the thronging hordes of new viewers, so skipping one episode shouldn't hurt. > Such as Hellbound, an episode I won't > ever watch again regardless of the couch scene which is the only good part > of that episode. Is that the one where Fred suddenly became All. About, Spike.? (And I know nothing of this couch scene. I'll take your word that it was the only good part of the episode though.) > I rated it lower than both Provider (Which I still like) > and She and don't consider it part of this season at all. Can you do that? So it's cool if I maintain _Angel_ as a series ended at about ten minutes to ten P.M. on May 20, 2002? ;) Terry

2003-11-30 05:30:41+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:26b7e9d4.0311292005.575855dc@posting.google.com... > "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:<CHqxb.862016$be.125774@news.easynews.com>... > > "Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:26b7e9d4.0311261120.35976bfb@posting.google.com... > > > "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message > > news:<4IVwb.1770929> > > > > > > > > > Are you staying spoiler-free 'cause you know you'd run screaming from > > > the room if you knew how bad it's going to get? > > > > Partially. I want to stay spoiler-free so that I won't skip an episode if I > > know it's going to be all about Spike. > > Well, why put yourself through it? I mean, I'm going to hunt down > every spoiler I can find about CC's episode just so I can guage how > much more damage they intend to do to the character before I confirm > my decision to continue to not watch the series. And I was told that > none of the episodes are connected anyway so as to facilitate easy > story entrance for the thronging hordes of new viewers, so skipping > one episode shouldn't hurt. Ah, but you forget that I have a different reason for watching *Angel*. You were watching for CC while I'm watching for DB. I need my DB fix. I could probably watch him reading the Yellow Pages for an entire episode if his shirt was off. > > > Such as Hellbound, an episode I won't > > ever watch again regardless of the couch scene which is the only good part > > of that episode. > > Is that the one where Fred suddenly became All. About, Spike.? (And I > know nothing of this couch scene. I'll take your word that it was the > only good part of the episode though.) Yeah, Fred was all about Spike. But the couch scene where Angel explains to Spike that they're going to Hell anyway so's they may as well do some good first. After all, what else are they going to do? > > > I rated it lower than both Provider (Which I still like) > > and She and don't consider it part of this season at all. > > Can you do that? So it's cool if I maintain _Angel_ as a series ended > at about ten minutes to ten P.M. on May 20, 2002? ;) I believe I did say that if the show becomes A:tSS then as far as I was concerned that's when it ended. Just as BtVS ended with Graduation Day II. I have the season 4 DVD's and have only watched Fear Itself, Pangs and Hush just once and haven't bothered watching any of the other episodes yet. -- Best regards, Linda Mmmmmm......Angel

2003-11-30 11:53:37+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


In article <26b7e9d4.0311291955.7e0fd360@posting.google.com>, tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031126154505.05279.00000685@mb-m21.aol.com>... >> Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) wrote: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031125120035.08082.00000508@mb-m03.aol.com>... >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >> >But I hear Sarah Thompson has been cast as a >> >regular on _In the Line of Fire_, so the anti-Eve'rs may have >> >something to celebrate. >> >> Seeing that she's been in the line of fire on this newsgroup... > >Well, I guess the _Line of Fire_ job is recurring. She told >_Dreamwatch_ she's hoping to be picked up as a regular on _Angel_. Cause she felt the love from the fans? >> Man, talk about some of the bitchiest, meanspirited, low >> blow, sarcastic comments not made by you and I against Joss... > >Well, maybe now that it's clear that Eve isn't coming between >BuffyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, they'll back off. None of the >Wesleyan's are Wes/Eve 'shippers are they? 'Cause obviously that'll >also cause some acting talent disparagement. So it's Eve and Gunn now? >> She's better off of course. > >ST may find that out someday. Hope not, cause it's not a nice thing to find out that way. >> >Well, he hated the all-boys prep school anyway. >> >> And who brought him there? :-) > >Daddy. What was the reason, I wonder? I thought it was Mommy who took the job over there and dragged Sonny with her after the divorce, but hey, this is going off memory of something posted on the Bronze in the old days. You're probably right. Which would explain the Damn Daddies. :-) >> (No, Terry and I aren't hinting that Joss has mommy issues.) > >True, not hinting. Saying it outright. Not hinting. At least you get my sense of humor. >> >I'm still trying to deprogram from it's all about Buffy. >> >> Why? It still is. > >Yeah, I know. Sigh. >> Yeah, but that would get in the way of telling that important story: >> Spike. > >I get conflicting reports. On the one side, "they" say It's. All. >About. Spike. On the other side, "they" think Spike is just there like >so much useless baggage. That both sides agree Spike is not doing >anything good for _Angel_ is pretty amazing, but which has it right? They both are. It's all about Spike being useless baggage. >> >On a personal level, as long as I can get my CC fix elsewhere, who >> >cares? >> >> True, though I'm still holding hopes that AH will decide that CC would >> make a perfect foil for her character in her sitcom. > >Nope. The one good thing to emerge from "See Jane Date" is the >irrefutable evidence that Charisma's more than ready to lead her own >series. Can't blame her. > If Hannigan wants to play Rhoda to CC's Mary Richards, fine. >But CC needs to be the one being foiled. She's grown out of being the >foiler. So no more "Curses, foilered again!" >> >Again, _Angel_ brings in ~$1.5 million per episode in ad revenue. >> >> OK, nets or brings in? Cause there is a diff. > >Gross, I imagine. Both the income and the source, of course. Not going to bother speculating on the overhead of the WB, cause in Hollywood, the overhead is exactly as much as they need it to be, but I'm betting the profit isn't so great that they can't cut and run from AtS at any time. And under 1.5 mill does explain the cheapness of the production look lately. And all the Bottle stories. >> Guess romantic means you tell Harm she has a pretty skirt before >> hopping on her instead of what the souless Spike who would have, >> just hop on her. > >Well, a girl likes to be noticed. Harmony probably appreciates the guy >remembering her name. > >BTW, I knew a woman who had her name tattooed just above her pubic >area specifically for that reason. Damn, I can't think of a good clean response to that one, other than had she thought about putting it on top of her head? :-()= >> Well, he sure ain't Batman. Though don't you long for those >> S1 days? > >I've come to the conclusion that whatever Quinn was doing, they should >have just sucked it up and dealt with it. Well, not seeing that the adding of Wes was the ultimate downfall of AtS, but yeah, it's too bad they couldn't have gotten it to work. >> >But he's hoping for his reward by then, so walking in the sun won't >> >help. >> >> Hey, then there's throwing yourself in front of a truck, jumping off of >high >> buildings, shotguns to the head... >> >> I mean, would you wish that on Angel, no matter how be a jerk >> he's becoming? > >Look, he couldn't see the hottie in front of him so yeah, I wish Angel >nothing but what he asks for. Or deserves. OK, you got me on that one. >> Besides, Spike's seconds? > >Maybe he figures it's better than Connor's seconds. Compare the seconds and which would you take? Besides, a one shot deal verses a consistent flow? I'd go with the one OOC act that was OOC cause it wasn't her. >> >Maybe not all the time. But then, Cordy worked hard to make sure he >> >wasn't annoying all the time. >> >> True enough. >> >> Way to orchestrate characters, Joss. > >Well, he'll fix it. Trust the story teller, not the... No, wait... >Trust the story, not the... No, can't do that either. Um, I'll have to >get back to you. Best of luck with that. >> >> >He's a genius. >> >> >> >> At what, we have no idea. >> > >> >Finding a lower place? >> >> Well, after three seasons, yes. > >Two and a half in _Angel_'s case, and Micky has retroactively made me >see that he really lost it when "Enemies" aired, so he didn't get >three full seasons on BtVS either. Oh, I give full season credit even for S2 AtS, Pylea arc included. S3 BtVS showed the cracks, as did S3 AtS, but I'll still give them credit for being good, even with the flaws. It's when the flaws become fissures that it's over. Mainly about Joss' desparation to shock and surprise when just good honest writing would do. Sure, a red herring like the Mayor's germphobia can work. Just don't lie and try so desparately to trick us so much that it becomes obvious you just can't do the good honest job of writing anymore. >> > I should post it to alt.erotic.toys. >> >> There's an alt.erotic.toys? > >If there isn't, there ought to be. True, can't imagine there isn't something like that on the net. BTW, congrats on Schilling. Now get ARod and it'll be even more embarassing when... :-) Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-11-30 15:35:52-08:00 - Re: Himiko read this! - (reldevik@usa.net)


tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote in message news:<26b7e9d4.0311291934.2cac9553@posting.google.com>... > "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:<iSqxb.1801257$Id.273298@news.easynews.com>... > > "Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:26b7e9d4.0311261117.72a30b28@posting.google.com... > > > sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > news:<20031125120035.08082.00000508@mb-m03.aol.com>... > > > > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ms McNab said she wasn't going to be added to the opening credits, so > > > that could be wrong too. But I hear Sarah Thompson has been cast as a > > > regular on _In the Line of Fire_, so the anti-Eve'rs may have > > > something to celebrate. > > > > OH Thank G*d! I sure hope it's true. > > Ah, well, now Sarah Thompson is telling a different story in > _Dreamwatch_ about hoping to be picked up as a regular. Apparently the > _Line of Fire_ gig is recurring, not regular. --I am glad to hear this. I think Sarah Thompson is a good actress, and Eve is an interesting character. But more importantly, her conspiracy with Lindsey, just revealed at the end of the last episode, will surely make for some juicy stories to come--and for that reason, I would think *any* viewer would want Eve to stay around for quite a while on AtS. Even if one dislikes her acting style and finds the character annoying, surely the Eve/Lindsey arc has got to be interesting overall? (Come on, Himiko, admit it--you must be intrigued about what's going on with Lindsey!) I want the Eve/Lindsey plot to be as long and elaborate as possible, and I would say that even if I didn't like the actress and the character of Eve. Clairel

2003-12-01 12:06:04-08:00 - Re: Himiko read this! - (himiko@animail.net)


reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0311301535.5676a09b@posting.google.com>... > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote in message news:<26b7e9d4.0311291934.2cac9553@posting.google.com>... > > "Linda" <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com> wrote in message news:<iSqxb.1801257$Id.273298@news.easynews.com>... > > > "Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > news:26b7e9d4.0311261117.72a30b28@posting.google.com... > > > > sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > news:<20031125120035.08082.00000508@mb-m03.aol.com>... > > > > > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ms McNab said she wasn't going to be added to the opening credits, so > > > > that could be wrong too. But I hear Sarah Thompson has been cast as a > > > > regular on _In the Line of Fire_, so the anti-Eve'rs may have > > > > something to celebrate. > > > > > > OH Thank G*d! I sure hope it's true. > > > > Ah, well, now Sarah Thompson is telling a different story in > > _Dreamwatch_ about hoping to be picked up as a regular. Apparently the > > _Line of Fire_ gig is recurring, not regular. > > --I am glad to hear this. I think Sarah Thompson is a good actress, > and Eve is an interesting character. But more importantly, her > conspiracy with Lindsey, just revealed at the end of the last episode, > will surely make for some juicy stories to come--and for that reason, > I would think *any* viewer would want Eve to stay around for quite a > while on AtS. Even if one dislikes her acting style and finds the > character annoying, surely the Eve/Lindsey arc has got to be > interesting overall? (Come on, Himiko, admit it--you must be > intrigued about what's going on with Lindsey!) I am. Very intrigued. Which makes it all the more aggravating that in order to focus on it which I want to do, I also have to focus on ST's painfully inept performance which literally makes me cringe with embarrassment for her and a general feeling of aesthetic violation for me. This has been true from the start. Eve is a good character. Perhaps a bit too Lilahish, but a good character as written. > I want the Eve/Lindsey > plot to be as long and elaborate as possible, and I would say that > even if I didn't like the actress and the character of Eve. Not if she affected you the way she affects me, you wouldn't. I want the Lindsey plot. Now that he's been introduced and linked to the whole story arc, they can kill her off, and I certainly hope they do it soon. himiko

2003-12-03 11:20:02-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031130065337.21232.00002456@mb-m13.aol.com>... > In article <26b7e9d4.0311291955.7e0fd360@posting.google.com>, > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031126154505.05279.00000685@mb-m21.aol.com>... > >> Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) wrote: > >> > >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >> >news:<20031125120035.08082.00000508@mb-m03.aol.com>... > >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: > >> >> > >> >But I hear Sarah Thompson has been cast as a > >> >regular on _In the Line of Fire_, so the anti-Eve'rs may have > >> >something to celebrate. > >> > >> Seeing that she's been in the line of fire on this newsgroup... > > > >Well, I guess the _Line of Fire_ job is recurring. She told > >_Dreamwatch_ she's hoping to be picked up as a regular on _Angel_. > > Cause she felt the love from the fans? Possibly she feels the lure of a steady paycheck. Someone ought to tell her about CC, Kartheiser, and Romanov though. And I guess Benson. > So it's Eve and Gunn now? If that's all that's left. Wasn't Eve getting her groove on with Lindsey at the end of the last episode though? > >> She's better off of course. > > > >ST may find that out someday. > > Hope not, cause it's not a nice thing to find out that way. I know, but least she won't have invested seven years before being summarily dismissed without a word of appreciation. > At least you get my sense of humor. I find that mildly disconcerting. > >I get conflicting reports. On the one side, "they" say It's. All. > >About. Spike. On the other side, "they" think Spike is just there like > >so much useless baggage. That both sides agree Spike is not doing > >anything good for _Angel_ is pretty amazing, but which has it right? > > They both are. > > It's all about Spike being useless baggage. Ah. Well, then, at least he's not changed from the _Buffy_ days. > >Nope. The one good thing to emerge from "See Jane Date" is the > >irrefutable evidence that Charisma's more than ready to lead her own > >series. > > Can't blame her. Whether or not CC wants to be the lead is another story, I suppose. She's said she doesn't, but that was before she had ample evidence that not being the title character limits job security even more than it already is. > > If Hannigan wants to play Rhoda to CC's Mary Richards, fine. > >But CC needs to be the one being foiled. She's grown out of being the > >foiler. > > So no more "Curses, foilered again!" Well, no, there'd be more "Curses, foilered again!" There would be less "Hah! Foiled'em again!" > >BTW, I knew a woman who had her name tattooed just above her pubic > >area specifically for that reason. > > Damn, I can't think of a good clean response to that one, other than > had she thought about putting it on top of her head? :-()= I expect the hair thing was an issue. > >I've come to the conclusion that whatever Quinn was doing, they should > >have just sucked it up and dealt with it. > > Well, not seeing that the adding of Wes was the ultimate downfall of > AtS, but yeah, it's too bad they couldn't have gotten it to work. No, I'm not saying adding Wes was the downfall. Joss giving up on Batman to go for _Days of Our Unlives_ was the downfall. It's just that dropping Quinn was a change, and Joss sucks at changing more than he does at math. Making that first change made making all the other changes that much easier. > >Look, he couldn't see the hottie in front of him so yeah, I wish Angel > >nothing but what he asks for. > > Or deserves. OK, you got me on that one. As did Mercedes McNab, who recently suggested that Harmangel would be fun. I agree; HarmonyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!! Angel would get what he deserved and still avoid getting cookie crumbs everywhere. (I say in direct defiance of the self-appointed humor-challenged newsgroup police folks.) > >> Besides, Spike's seconds? > > > >Maybe he figures it's better than Connor's seconds. > > Compare the seconds and which would you take? > > Besides, a one shot deal verses a consistent flow? But it wasn't a one-shot deal. > I'd go with the one OOC act that was OOC cause it > wasn't her. I'm all for that, and judging by "Awakening, so is Angel. But Joss promised the WB BuffyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!!, so I guess Angel's gonna go where Spike has been many, many, many times before. Unless the WB decides they want BuffyNSpikiePoo4EVAH!!!!!!!!, I guess. > >Well, he'll fix it. Trust the story teller, not the... No, wait... > >Trust the story, not the... No, can't do that either. Um, I'll have to > >get back to you. > > Best of luck with that. If there were any sense that CC's departure is temporary, giving her the season off to facilitate a story Cordelia never would have anything to do with, or that the only reason the story exists at all is because Angel and company gave up on the heart and soul of their organization, or that Cordelia would be back to bail Angel and the other useless characters out, then you could almost think Joss knew what he was doing. ("Almost" 'cause this isn't a story worth telling for reasons I already gave.) He's not doing anything off-screen that leads to that conclusion though, and from what I'm hearing, it doesn't sound like he's doing anything on-screen to suggest it either. But then if Joss is forced into bringing CC back for a larger part of the season to end the W&H fiasco, I expect he'll claim that was his plan all along. > Oh, I give full season credit even for S2 AtS, Pylea arc included. S3 BtVS > showed the cracks, as did S3 AtS, but I'll still give them credit for > being good, even with the flaws. Pylea was fine. It didn't blend well with the rest of season 2, but it was fine. The bigger problems in season three started early though, and came to a head with Wesley's transformation into schmuck-hood, capped off by the finale, of course. > Mainly about Joss' desparation to shock and surprise when just > good honest writing would do. Yeah. I remember those days. > >> There's an alt.erotic.toys? > > > >If there isn't, there ought to be. > > True, can't imagine there isn't something like that on the net. Everything else seems to be covered. > BTW, congrats on Schilling. Now get ARod and it'll be even > more embarassing when... Outside of pissing off the Yankees 'cause the Sox someone the Yankees wanted, I don't think Schilling was worth all that much. And you're welcome to ARod. But it doesn't matter in the long run. When Schilling walks in the winning run in game seven of the Series, it'll be the manager's fault anyway. So how 'bout them Bengals? Terry -- HarmonyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!! --

2003-12-04 12:17:34-06:00 - Re: Himiko read this! - (Thirsty Viking <jdoerter@kill.spam.comcast.net>)


"himiko" <himiko@animail.net> wrote in message news:c7902983.0312011206.2013b744@posting.google.com... > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0311301535.5676a09b@posting.google.com>... > > I want the Eve/Lindsey > > plot to be as long and elaborate as possible, and I would say that > > even if I didn't like the actress and the character of Eve. > > Not if she affected you the way she affects me, you wouldn't. I want > the Lindsey plot. Now that he's been introduced and linked to the > whole story arc, they can kill her off, and I certainly hope they do > it soon. That was my thought exactly, Lindsey and Eve in bed being almost the equivalent of doyle kissing cordelia. If Eve Left the series today, we have had the baton passed.

2003-12-08 01:52:59+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


In article <26b7e9d4.0312031120.2f1b5b7e@posting.google.com>, tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031130065337.21232.00002456@mb-m13.aol.com>... >> In article <26b7e9d4.0311291955.7e0fd360@posting.google.com>, >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031126154505.05279.00000685@mb-m21.aol.com>... >> >> Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) wrote: >> >> >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >> >news:<20031125120035.08082.00000508@mb-m03.aol.com>... >> >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >But I hear Sarah Thompson has been cast as a >> >> >regular on _In the Line of Fire_, so the anti-Eve'rs may have >> >> >something to celebrate. >> >> >> >> Seeing that she's been in the line of fire on this newsgroup... >> > >> >Well, I guess the _Line of Fire_ job is recurring. She told >> >_Dreamwatch_ she's hoping to be picked up as a regular on _Angel_. >> >> Cause she felt the love from the fans? > >Possibly she feels the lure of a steady paycheck. Someone ought to >tell her about CC, Kartheiser, and Romanov though. And I guess Benson. Yeah, but unemployment is more the norm for actors than the exception. >> So it's Eve and Gunn now? > >If that's all that's left. Wasn't Eve getting her groove on with >Lindsey at the end of the last episode though? Evil lawyer threesome. It could have worked before, except Lee probably was more interested in Lindsey than Lilah. >> >> She's better off of course. >> > >> >ST may find that out someday. >> >> Hope not, cause it's not a nice thing to find out that way. > >I know, but least she won't have invested seven years before being >summarily dismissed without a word of appreciation. You mean "Don't let the door hit you on the backside as you leave" isn't a word of appreciation? >> At least you get my sense of humor. > >I find that mildly disconcerting. You should. >> >I get conflicting reports. On the one side, "they" say It's. All. >> >About. Spike. On the other side, "they" think Spike is just there like >> >so much useless baggage. That both sides agree Spike is not doing >> >anything good for _Angel_ is pretty amazing, but which has it right? >> >> They both are. >> >> It's all about Spike being useless baggage. > >Ah. Well, then, at least he's not changed from the _Buffy_ days. Recent _Buffy_ days. Back in the olden times, when the Cordyverse was young and gay (<Sahjhan>gay in the happy sense, you get that right?</Sahjhan>) and Spike was well used as a marginal bad. Before the dark times. Before Spuffy and the Cordemon. >> >Nope. The one good thing to emerge from "See Jane Date" is the >> >irrefutable evidence that Charisma's more than ready to lead her own >> >series. >> >> Can't blame her. > >Whether or not CC wants to be the lead is another story, I suppose. >She's said she doesn't, but that was before she had ample evidence >that not being the title character limits job security even more than >it already is. Yeah, but leads can't take stories off for the most part. >> > If Hannigan wants to play Rhoda to CC's Mary Richards, fine. >> >But CC needs to be the one being foiled. She's grown out of being the >> >foiler. >> >> So no more "Curses, foilered again!" > >Well, no, there'd be more "Curses, foilered again!" There would be >less "Hah! Foiled'em again!" Grammarist! >> >BTW, I knew a woman who had her name tattooed just above her pubic >> >area specifically for that reason. >> >> Damn, I can't think of a good clean response to that one, other than >> had she thought about putting it on top of her head? :-()= > >I expect the hair thing was an issue. > >> >I've come to the conclusion that whatever Quinn was doing, they should >> >have just sucked it up and dealt with it. >> >> Well, not seeing that the adding of Wes was the ultimate downfall of >> AtS, but yeah, it's too bad they couldn't have gotten it to work. > >No, I'm not saying adding Wes was the downfall. Joss giving up on >Batman to go for _Days of Our Unlives_ was the downfall. In The Week, they have a short about how Adam West and gang had fun with the gayness of Batman and Robin. From Batman's pole being bigger to other gags, I guess there was some subtext going on. Shocking! But at least Alfred was straight, right? Right? It's just >that dropping Quinn was a change, and Joss sucks at changing more than >he does at math. Making that first change made making all the other >changes that much easier. Oh, I see. Once successful at something, you think you're the master of the universe with it. Too bad he wasn't, cause many of the changes haven't been for the better these later years. Some did work. The hotel worked. Wes worked. Bringing back Darla worked, to a degree. Having Angel give up redemption worked, to a degree. But some of the seeds of the problems were also there in S1. The reason Doyle had the visions was, to be kind, lame. How it was just that Cordy get the visions was too. Some of how the wrote TPTB left you wondering whose side were they on. "Inside Out" tried to deal with some of these problems, but basically became hackwork instead. Letting Angel in without an invite to get dueling epiphanies. >> >Look, he couldn't see the hottie in front of him so yeah, I wish Angel >> >nothing but what he asks for. >> >> Or deserves. OK, you got me on that one. > >As did Mercedes McNab, who recently suggested that Harmangel would be >fun. I agree; HarmonyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!! Angel would get what he >deserved and still avoid getting cookie crumbs everywhere. (I say in >direct defiance of the self-appointed humor-challenged newsgroup >police folks.) We have a self-appointed humor-challenged newsgroup police? Damn, I though I only killfiled the inane Spikaphiles and nutcases. Then again, that probably does cover them. If there's H/A, will there be some Nekkid Harmony? Cause I ain't getting it with Sparmony. >> >> Besides, Spike's seconds? >> > >> >Maybe he figures it's better than Connor's seconds. >> >> Compare the seconds and which would you take? >> >> Besides, a one shot deal verses a consistent flow? > >But it wasn't a one-shot deal. It was too and don't you dare make me think otherwise! >> I'd go with the one OOC act that was OOC cause it >> wasn't her. > >I'm all for that, and judging by "Awakening, so is Angel. But Joss >promised the WB BuffyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!!, so I guess Angel's gonna go >where Spike has been many, many, many times before. Unless the WB >decides they want BuffyNSpikiePoo4EVAH!!!!!!!!, I guess. Personally, if SMG comes back, make it as The First then. That way you can hint at it, but not go all out with BuffyN<vampdujour>4EVAH!!!!! >> >Well, he'll fix it. Trust the story teller, not the... No, wait... >> >Trust the story, not the... No, can't do that either. Um, I'll have to >> >get back to you. >> >> Best of luck with that. > >If there were any sense that CC's departure is temporary, giving her >the season off to facilitate a story Cordelia never would have >anything to do with, OK, good fanwanking so far. or that the only reason the story exists at all >is because Angel and company gave up on the heart and soul of their >organization, Thus accepting W&H's offer. or that Cordelia would be back to bail Angel and the >other useless characters out, then you could almost think Joss knew >what he was doing. Except the actress seems to be taking jobs that, you know, might cause a conflict. Not that Joss ever wound up tap dancing cause he didn't tie up actors availability. No, never. But nice try, cause you're right: ("Almost" 'cause this isn't a story worth telling >for reasons I already gave.) He's not doing anything off-screen that >leads to that conclusion though, and from what I'm hearing, it doesn't >sound like he's doing anything on-screen to suggest it either. I never doubted this would be the end of the Cordelia arc. Well, OK, the end of the Cordelia arc was in Birthday, but you know what I mean. >But then if Joss is forced into bringing CC back for a larger part of >the season to end the W&H fiasco, I expect he'll claim that was his >plan all along. Screw credit, I'd just like more Cordy. But I'm guessing this one last shot will be, well, one last shot. >> Oh, I give full season credit even for S2 AtS, Pylea arc included. S3 BtVS >> showed the cracks, as did S3 AtS, but I'll still give them credit for >> being good, even with the flaws. > >Pylea was fine. It didn't blend well with the rest of season 2, but it >was fine. The bigger problems in season three started early though, >and came to a head with Wesley's transformation into schmuck-hood, >capped off by the finale, of course. Yeah, and you and I were stupid enough to give them a break with the finale. Should have started with guns ablazing. >> Mainly about Joss' desparation to shock and surprise when just >> good honest writing would do. > >Yeah. I remember those days. Watch it, I'll burst into song. >> >> There's an alt.erotic.toys? >> > >> >If there isn't, there ought to be. >> >> True, can't imagine there isn't something like that on the net. > >Everything else seems to be covered. Or uncovered. But enough about Paris Hilton. >> BTW, congrats on Schilling. Now get ARod and it'll be even >> more embarassing when... > >Outside of pissing off the Yankees 'cause the Sox someone the Yankees >wanted, I don't think Schilling was worth all that much. And you're >welcome to ARod. But it doesn't matter in the long run. When Schilling >walks in the winning run in game seven of the Series, it'll be the >manager's fault anyway. Well, you can't blame whose fault it really is, the fans, now can you? >So how 'bout them Bengals? As a Browns fan, waiting for them to have injuries like the rest of the NFL. Not happy they lost to the Ravens, cause, well, Browns fan, but happy they lost. > Terry > > -- HarmonyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!! -- The meeting of great minds. Stephen Weick (Hey, what are you looking down here for?)

2003-12-09 12:47:34-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


Spoilers for episode 12. . . . . . sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031207205259.25815.00004991@mb-m07.aol.com>... > In article <26b7e9d4.0312031120.2f1b5b7e@posting.google.com>, > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031130065337.21232.00002456@mb-m13.aol.com>... > > >> In article <26b7e9d4.0311291955.7e0fd360@posting.google.com>, > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: > >> > >> >Well, I guess the _Line of Fire_ job is recurring. She told > >> >_Dreamwatch_ she's hoping to be picked up as a regular on _Angel_. > >> > >> Cause she felt the love from the fans? > > > >Possibly she feels the lure of a steady paycheck. Someone ought to > >tell her about CC, Kartheiser, and Romanov though. And I guess Benson. > > Yeah, but unemployment is more the norm for actors than the exception. Sure, the steady paycheck for however long has got to look good even knowing about the way things end up if you don't get invited to Shakespeare night at the Whedon's. But having seen the premiere of _In the Line of Fire_, I doubt ST's going to get anything more out of that job, except maybe a social disease. > >> So it's Eve and Gunn now? > > > >If that's all that's left. Wasn't Eve getting her groove on with > >Lindsey at the end of the last episode though? > > Evil lawyer threesome. Yeah, I read that JAR said he thinks Gunn is evil. Wow, what a freakin' great show _Angel_ is turning out to be. > It could have worked before, except Lee probably was more interested > in Lindsey than Lilah. I suppose in the ideal threesome, there'd be no one uninterested in either of the other two. > >I know, but least she won't have invested seven years before being > >summarily dismissed without a word of appreciation. > > You mean "Don't let the door hit you on the backside as you leave" > isn't a word of appreciation? Let me check the dictionary Joss gave me... Huh, you're right, it is an expression of appreciation. Oddly enough, I see here that a network guy saying, "Joss, _Fireflop_ sucks ass and we're cancelling it" really means, "Joss, we're just too stupid to realize your vision of greatness. We so suck, just like that hack actor Sutherland." > >> At least you get my sense of humor. > > > >I find that mildly disconcerting. > > You should. I'm arranging for counseling. > >> It's all about Spike being useless baggage. > > > >Ah. Well, then, at least he's not changed from the _Buffy_ days. > > Recent _Buffy_ days. Back in the olden times, when the Cordyverse > was young and gay (<Sahjhan>gay in the happy sense, you get that > right?</Sahjhan>) and Spike was well used as a marginal bad. Before > the dark times. Before Spuffy and the Cordemon. Before Spuffy anyway. Cordemon could have worked if there'd been more thought and less 'wouldn't it be cool if...' > >Whether or not CC wants to be the lead is another story, I suppose. > >She's said she doesn't, but that was before she had ample evidence > >that not being the title character limits job security even more than > >it already is. > > Yeah, but leads can't take stories off for the most part. Which is why she didn't want to be a lead before, but now there's all those mouths to feed. And to make salivate... > >> So no more "Curses, foilered again!" > > > >Well, no, there'd be more "Curses, foilered again!" There would be > >less "Hah! Foiled'em again!" > > Grammarist! Emmiest! > In The Week, they have a short about how Adam West and gang > had fun with the gayness of Batman and Robin. From Batman's > pole being bigger to other gags, I guess there was some subtext > going on. Shocking! "I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on here." > But at least Alfred was straight, right? > > Right? I'm sure calling Robin 'Master Dick' had no subtextual content whatsoever. > Oh, I see. Once successful at something, you think you're the master > of the universe with it. Too bad he wasn't, cause many of the changes > haven't been for the better these later years. Exactly. Like, fr'instance, BtVS post-season three. > Some did work. The hotel worked. Yes. Unchallenged. >Wes worked. Up until Idiot Wes and the Hamburger of Doom. But then, sequels usual do fail. > Bringing back Darla worked, to a degree. Darla worked until Minear's redemptionofmygirlfriend episode. Some of you may remember it as "Lullaby." > Having Angel give up redemption worked, to a degree. Yes, to the point Angel giving up on redemption is what led to _Days of Out Unlives_. Just making it helping the helpless 'cause that's what ought to be done would have been good. > But some of the seeds of the problems were also there in S1. The reason > Doyle had the visions was, to be kind, lame. Metaphorically speaking, not so lame. The idea behind the guy trying to withdraw from participation in the world suddenly getting yelled at to get off his ass and get involved worked. The idea the visions caused pain worked. They just lingered on too long in that guise. > How it was just that Cordy get the visions was too. I agree. She should have gotten them by making sweet monkey love to me. Oh, not what you meant? Okay. But the visions worked for Cordy better than for Doyle up until they lingered on too long. The problem was what ME did with the visions, and I don't mean Cordemon. I mean what they did after that. > Some of how the wrote TPTB left you wondering > whose side were they on. "Inside Out" tried to deal with some of these > problems, but basically became hackwork instead. I suppose when you're so busy doing "cool" things 'cause they're "cool" and you don't consider the ramifications, it's hard to try to make the various threads look like some part of a whole. Fortunately for Joss, the devout will wank his story for him. > Letting Angel in without > an invite to get dueling epiphanies. Well, you know, it was important that a character we'd never see again be the only one who Angel could talk to his epiphany about. So maybe Angel will have another epiphany and he can talk to Cordelia about it. > >As did Mercedes McNab, who recently suggested that Harmangel would be > >fun. I agree; HarmonyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!! Angel would get what he > >deserved and still avoid getting cookie crumbs everywhere. (I say in > >direct defiance of the self-appointed humor-challenged newsgroup > >police folks.) > > We have a self-appointed humor-challenged newsgroup police? Isn't that a requirement? > Damn, I though I only killfiled the inane Spikaphiles and nutcases. > Then again, that probably does cover them. The set includes the subset. But who's left if you're killfiling the inane Spikaphiles and nutcases? And how are you seeing this reply if you're killfiling the nutcases? > If there's H/A, will there be some Nekkid Harmony? <http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=2312> > >> Besides, a one shot deal verses a consistent flow? > > > >But it wasn't a one-shot deal. > > It was too and don't you dare make me think otherwise! Well, maybe it wasn't even a one-shot deal. > >I'm all for that, and judging by "Awakening, so is Angel. But Joss > >promised the WB BuffyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!!, so I guess Angel's gonna go > >where Spike has been many, many, many times before. Unless the WB > >decides they want BuffyNSpikiePoo4EVAH!!!!!!!!, I guess. > > Personally, if SMG comes back, make it as The First then. That way you > can hint at it, but not go all out with BuffyN<vampdujour>4EVAH!!!!! Or have her come back as the Keebler Elf. Then you don't have a sorry-ass metaphor, you have an elf baking like Mrs. Fields. Where have you gone, Joe Campbell...aggio? > >If there were any sense that CC's departure is temporary, giving her > >the season off to facilitate a story Cordelia never would have > >anything to do with, > > OK, good fanwanking so far. More like writing a story that doesn't exist. Oh, yeah, you just said that. > or that the only reason the story exists at all > >is because Angel and company gave up on the heart and soul of their > >organization, > > Thus accepting W&H's offer. It at least gets Angel into the limo. The rest are still a mystery. > or that Cordelia would be back to bail Angel and the > >other useless characters out, then you could almost think Joss knew > >what he was doing. > > Except the actress seems to be taking jobs that, you know, might > cause a conflict. Not that Joss ever wound up tap dancing cause he > didn't tie up actors availability. No, never. I almost wish _Angel_ would go on another season so that _The Charisma Show_ could come on ABC on Wednesday at nine and kick _Angel_'s ass. But then that'd mean another year for that poor deceased horse to get beaten. > I never doubted this would be the end of the Cordelia arc. Well, OK, > the end of the Cordelia arc was in Birthday, but you know what I > mean. Never? Even before Joss proved how dumb he is by firing Charisma? > >But then if Joss is forced into bringing CC back for a larger part of > >the season to end the W&H fiasco, I expect he'll claim that was his > >plan all along. > > Screw credit, I'd just like more Cordy. Look elsewhere then. > But I'm guessing this one last shot will be, well, one last shot. I read that CC told Wrongda she wasn't going back again. Whether that was CC giving her answer or CC saying what ME already told her I don't know, but there it is. Since Christian Kane said episode 12 is All. About. Lindsey., I could believe CC wouldn't care to return and take a chance on playing second to, say, Merle. Can't say I'm surprised though. What I am surprised about is they let CC hold a knife while standing next to Joss, but then CC is much nicer person than I am. For example, I would have told them I have better things to do than go to their lame-ass party. Up side, from what CC said, it sounds like the episode starts with HBCordy "Up There," so Joss apparently got that much of the clue at least. Something to look forward to. Or not. It is Wrongda, after all. > >Pylea was fine. It didn't blend well with the rest of season 2, but it > >was fine. The bigger problems in season three started early though, > >and came to a head with Wesley's transformation into schmuck-hood, > >capped off by the finale, of course. > > Yeah, and you and I were stupid enough to give them a break with > the finale. Should have started with guns ablazing. Fool me once... Okay, fool me a half dozen times. But I have to draw a line somewhere. > >> Mainly about Joss' desparation to shock and surprise when just > >> good honest writing would do. > > > >Yeah. I remember those days. > > Watch it, I'll burst into song. Just remember, the line is, "Gee, our old LaSalle ran great". > Or uncovered. But enough about Paris Hilton. Or the New York Hil... Never mind. > >> BTW, congrats on Schilling. Now get ARod and it'll be even > >> more embarassing when... > > > >Outside of pissing off the Yankees 'cause the Sox someone the Yankees > >wanted, I don't think Schilling was worth all that much. And you're > >welcome to ARod. But it doesn't matter in the long run. When Schilling > >walks in the winning run in game seven of the Series, it'll be the > >manager's fault anyway. > > Well, you can't blame whose fault it really is, the fans, now can you? Not if you want to sell tickets and team memorabelia. BTW, did you know the Sox are talking to ARod about a trade or was that just a shot in the dark? 'Cause Nomar's getting ticked off and Manny's wondering where Texas is. > >So how 'bout them Bengals? > > As a Browns fan, waiting for them to have injuries like the rest of > the NFL. > > Not happy they lost to the Ravens, cause, well, Browns fan, but > happy they lost. Does it really matter given the year the Browns are having, or is it one of those interstate rivalry things? > > -- HarmonyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!! -- > > The meeting of great minds. Makes you wonder how well they'd fare. Though Angel would be better off than with Buffy. Still, I'd hate to think what would result if vampires could have children without Jasmine there to magic up the works. I mean, look how stupid Connor was, and his mother had a brain. > (Hey, what are you looking down here for?) 'Cause that's where Google puts the 'Post a reply to this message' link. Terry

2003-12-11 03:16:01+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (sweick@aol.commmmmmmm)


In article <26b7e9d4.0312091247.1b18ac7@posting.google.com>, tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: >Spoilers for episode 12. > >. >. >. >. >. > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >news:<20031207205259.25815.00004991@mb-m07.aol.com>... >> In article <26b7e9d4.0312031120.2f1b5b7e@posting.google.com>, >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: >> >> >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message >> >news:<20031130065337.21232.00002456@mb-m13.aol.com>... >> >> >> In article <26b7e9d4.0311291955.7e0fd360@posting.google.com>, >> >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: >> >> >> >> So it's Eve and Gunn now? >> > >> >If that's all that's left. Wasn't Eve getting her groove on with >> >Lindsey at the end of the last episode though? >> >> Evil lawyer threesome. > >Yeah, I read that JAR said he thinks Gunn is evil. Wow, what a >freakin' great show _Angel_ is turning out to be. Well, he didn't want to be the only one not evil on the show. >> >I know, but least she won't have invested seven years before being >> >summarily dismissed without a word of appreciation. >> >> You mean "Don't let the door hit you on the backside as you leave" >> isn't a word of appreciation? > >Let me check the dictionary Joss gave me... > >Huh, you're right, it is an expression of appreciation. Oddly enough, >I see here that a network guy saying, "Joss, _Fireflop_ sucks ass and >we're cancelling it" really means, "Joss, we're just too stupid to >realize your vision of greatness. We so suck, just like that hack >actor Sutherland." Really, I thought it'd mean "Joss, we killed it off by showing it out of order so that nobody would get your brilliance cause we're all jealous of your greatness." Hmmm, guess I need a new dictionary. >> >> At least you get my sense of humor. >> > >> >I find that mildly disconcerting. >> >> You should. > >I'm arranging for counseling. You should. >> >> It's all about Spike being useless baggage. >> > >> >Ah. Well, then, at least he's not changed from the _Buffy_ days. >> >> Recent _Buffy_ days. Back in the olden times, when the Cordyverse >> was young and gay (<Sahjhan>gay in the happy sense, you get that >> right?</Sahjhan>) and Spike was well used as a marginal bad. Before >> the dark times. Before Spuffy and the Cordemon. > >Before Spuffy anyway. Cordemon could have worked if there'd been more >thought and less 'wouldn't it be cool if...' Spuffy could have worked, if they hadn't rode it into the ground, or into our faces. >> >Whether or not CC wants to be the lead is another story, I suppose. >> >She's said she doesn't, but that was before she had ample evidence >> >that not being the title character limits job security even more than >> >it already is. >> >> Yeah, but leads can't take stories off for the most part. > >Which is why she didn't want to be a lead before, but now there's all >those mouths to feed. And to make salivate... I'm not sure she cares about your mouth though. >> >> So no more "Curses, foilered again!" >> > >> >Well, no, there'd be more "Curses, foilered again!" There would be >> >less "Hah! Foiled'em again!" >> >> Grammarist! > >Emmiest! OK, you got me on that one, just cause I can't figure out what you're meaning. >> In The Week, they have a short about how Adam West and gang >> had fun with the gayness of Batman and Robin. From Batman's >> pole being bigger to other gags, I guess there was some subtext >> going on. Shocking! > >"I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on here." Catwoman's a beard. Who'd have thunk it. Then again, there was that movie with the actress' name in it... >> But at least Alfred was straight, right? >> >> Right? > >I'm sure calling Robin 'Master Dick' had no subtextual content >whatsoever. LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU! >> Oh, I see. Once successful at something, you think you're the master >> of the universe with it. Too bad he wasn't, cause many of the changes >> haven't been for the better these later years. > >Exactly. Like, fr'instance, BtVS post-season three. Well, college might have worked, but it didn't. I blame the Initiative there. So then they decide to have Buffy leave college to the real world, and that didn't work either. Really, they were screwed once they left High School. >> Some did work. The hotel worked. > >Yes. Unchallenged. > >>Wes worked. > >Up until Idiot Wes and the Hamburger of Doom. But then, sequels usual >do fail. > >> Bringing back Darla worked, to a degree. > >Darla worked until Minear's redemptionofmygirlfriend episode. Some of >you may remember it as "Lullaby." Hey, she had a soul! Granted, not hers... >> Having Angel give up redemption worked, to a degree. > >Yes, to the point Angel giving up on redemption is what led to _Days >of Out Unlives_. Just making it helping the helpless 'cause that's >what ought to be done would have been good. It would have dug them out of that hole of coupon clipping for redemption. >> But some of the seeds of the problems were also there in S1. The reason >> Doyle had the visions was, to be kind, lame. > >Metaphorically speaking, not so lame. The idea behind the guy trying >to withdraw from participation in the world suddenly getting yelled at >to get off his ass and get involved worked. The idea the visions >caused pain worked. They just lingered on too long in that guise. Hmmm, how to handle this without being redundant. A guy in the 1850's discovers he's part black and "passing". It destroys his whole life. He lives alone on the outskirts of town. Three runaway slaves try to get him to help, but he refuses. Later while riding, he finds the three slaves lynched, as a warning to others. He goes on to become a major player in the Underground Railway. A guy in Nazi Germany discovers he's part jewish. He hides this "shame". Some Jews try to get him to help hide them, but he refuses. Later, he finds some of them dead and the others going to the camps. He goes on to become a major player in the Resistance Underground. So what separates these from Doyle and the vision? My complaint was Doyle couldn't do anything, as probably neither could these other two. The difference is they *chose* to make a difference, to get the ability to help those they couldn't help before. Doyle had no choice. The visions were forced onto him. They'd happen no matter what. And Doyle never was shown wanting to do this "save a soul" work. He'd rather have been out at a bar drinking or chasing a skirt. While all those others made it their work. Redemption? Partly, but more like they had epiphanies. Doyle might have in _Hero_, but he was dragged to it. Now you can accept that Skip was right and that the visions were a manipulation tool. Or you could assume that they were a punishment for not doing something when there was nothing Doyle could have done. But that seems wrong. And Cordelia gets them because she rated Willow's outfits? Please. That vision problem lead to Jasmine, which ain't a good place to go. >> How it was just that Cordy get the visions was too. > >I agree. She should have gotten them by making sweet monkey love to >me. Ah, not talking about your delusions. Besides, those are *my* delusions! Oh, not what you meant? Okay. But the visions worked for Cordy >better than for Doyle up until they lingered on too long. The problem >was what ME did with the visions, and I don't mean Cordemon. I mean >what they did after that. A little clarification here. Cause I see them being a total problem to begin with. Without the flaws in Birthday, you don't get Inside Out. Without the way they wrote the Cordemon, bringing forth a Saint Cordy feel to it, you wouldn't have gotten Tomorrow. To me, the Cordemon is just as "wouldn't it be cool if" as anything else, plain not well thought out. >> Some of how the wrote TPTB left you wondering >> whose side were they on. "Inside Out" tried to deal with some of these >> problems, but basically became hackwork instead. > >I suppose when you're so busy doing "cool" things 'cause they're >"cool" and you don't consider the ramifications, it's hard to try to >make the various threads look like some part of a whole. Fortunately >for Joss, the devout will wank his story for him. As long as it's just stories. Cause otherwise, ewww. >> Letting Angel in without >> an invite to get dueling epiphanies. > >Well, you know, it was important that a character we'd never see again >be the only one who Angel could talk to his epiphany about. So maybe >Angel will have another epiphany and he can talk to Cordelia about it. Well, she was ticked off at Angel. Hey, it could have been worse. It could have been Gunn. >> >(I say in >> >direct defiance of the self-appointed humor-challenged newsgroup >> >police folks.) >> >> We have a self-appointed humor-challenged newsgroup police? > >Isn't that a requirement? It does seem like it. >> Damn, I though I only killfiled the inane Spikaphiles and nutcases. > >> Then again, that probably does cover them. > >The set includes the subset. But who's left if you're killfiling the >inane Spikaphiles and nutcases? All of 12. And Roaz. >And how are you seeing this reply if >you're killfiling the nutcases? Being obsessed over CC isn't being a nutcase. Now being a Red Sox fan... >> If there's H/A, will there be some Nekkid Harmony? > ><http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=2312> That's half nekkid MM, to which I thank you, but I'm looking for some Hot Harmony Happenings. >> >> Besides, a one shot deal verses a consistent flow? >> > >> >But it wasn't a one-shot deal. >> >> It was too and don't you dare make me think otherwise! > >Well, maybe it wasn't even a one-shot deal. Yeah, I know young men have trouble with control. See with the excitement and eveything being so new... I gather there's a new drug for that sort of thing. >> >I'm all for that, and judging by "Awakening, so is Angel. But Joss >> >promised the WB BuffyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!!, so I guess Angel's gonna go >> >where Spike has been many, many, many times before. Unless the WB >> >decides they want BuffyNSpikiePoo4EVAH!!!!!!!!, I guess. >> >> Personally, if SMG comes back, make it as The First then. That way you >> can hint at it, but not go all out with BuffyN<vampdujour>4EVAH!!!!! > >Or have her come back as the Keebler Elf. Then you don't have a >sorry-ass metaphor, you have an elf baking like Mrs. Fields. Where >have you gone, Joe Campbell...aggio? Sometimes a deer is just a deer? >> or that the only reason the story exists at all >> >is because Angel and company gave up on the heart and soul of their >> >organization, >> >> Thus accepting W&H's offer. > >It at least gets Angel into the limo. The rest are still a mystery. Lorne's a mystery? >> or that Cordelia would be back to bail Angel and the >> >other useless characters out, then you could almost think Joss knew >> >what he was doing. >> >> Except the actress seems to be taking jobs that, you know, might >> cause a conflict. Not that Joss ever wound up tap dancing cause he >> didn't tie up actors availability. No, never. > >I almost wish _Angel_ would go on another season so that _The Charisma >Show_ could come on ABC on Wednesday at nine and kick _Angel_'s ass. >But then that'd mean another year for that poor deceased horse to get >beaten. Really. Besides, has DB decided if he's coming back for S6? Not that Joss wouldn't love to try to do a _Blake's Seven_, but not seeing the WB going for a series called Angel without an Angel. >> I never doubted this would be the end of the Cordelia arc. Well, OK, >> the end of the Cordelia arc was in Birthday, but you know what I >> mean. > >Never? Even before Joss proved how dumb he is by firing Charisma? Ah, with the announcement of her coming back. Sorry, no ESP from me. >> >But then if Joss is forced into bringing CC back for a larger part of >> >the season to end the W&H fiasco, I expect he'll claim that was his >> >plan all along. >> >> Screw credit, I'd just like more Cordy. > >Look elsewhere then. There are my tapes and DVDs. >> But I'm guessing this one last shot will be, well, one last shot. > >I read that CC told Wrongda she wasn't going back again. Whether that >was CC giving her answer or CC saying what ME already told her I don't >know, but there it is. As we expected it to be. Since Christian Kane said episode 12 is All. >About. Lindsey., I could believe CC wouldn't care to return and take a >chance on playing second to, say, Merle. Hey, Merle had some class! Not sure where he stole it from, but hey, he had some. Can't say I'm surprised >though. What I am surprised about is they let CC hold a knife while >standing next to Joss, but then CC is much nicer person than I am. For >example, I would have told them I have better things to do than go to >their lame-ass party. Well, she is an actress. She can fake happy for a half an hour or so. Roxie: I hate you! Velma: This is the only business that that doesn't matter. - _Chicago_ >Up side, from what CC said, it sounds like the episode starts with >HBCordy "Up There," so Joss apparently got that much of the clue at >least. Something to look forward to. Or not. It is Wrongda, after all. Besides it being Wronga, I would suspect it will be Joss showing Cordelia as the "old show" and how so much better, more interesting the "new show" is now, or some such subtext. Cause "New and Improved" is always better. >> >The bigger problems in season three started early though, >> >and came to a head with Wesley's transformation into schmuck-hood, >> >capped off by the finale, of course. >> >> Yeah, and you and I were stupid enough to give them a break with >> the finale. Should have started with guns ablazing. > >Fool me once... > >Okay, fool me a half dozen times. But I have to draw a line somewhere. Really. We have integrity. Just not much. >> >> Mainly about Joss' desparation to shock and surprise when just >> >> good honest writing would do. >> > >> >Yeah. I remember those days. >> >> Watch it, I'll burst into song. > >Just remember, the line is, "Gee, our old LaSalle ran great". Thanks. >> >> BTW, congrats on Schilling. Now get ARod and it'll be even >> >> more embarassing when... >> > >> >Outside of pissing off the Yankees 'cause the Sox someone the Yankees >> >wanted, I don't think Schilling was worth all that much. And you're >> >welcome to ARod. But it doesn't matter in the long run. When Schilling >> >walks in the winning run in game seven of the Series, it'll be the >> >manager's fault anyway. >> >> Well, you can't blame whose fault it really is, the fans, now can you? > >Not if you want to sell tickets and team memorabelia. BTW, did you >know the Sox are talking to ARod about a trade or was that just a shot >in the dark? 'Cause Nomar's getting ticked off and Manny's wondering >where Texas is. Tell Manny not to worry. Just point him to home plate and he'll hit. It's all those other little things that's the problem. >> >So how 'bout them Bengals? >> >> As a Browns fan, waiting for them to have injuries like the rest of >> the NFL. >> >> Not happy they lost to the Ravens, cause, well, Browns fan, but >> happy they lost. > >Does it really matter given the year the Browns are having, or is it >one of those interstate rivalry things? You mean the team that was stolen from us verses the interstate rivalry thang? >> > -- HarmonyNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!! -- >> >> The meeting of great minds. > >Makes you wonder how well they'd fare. Though Angel would be better >off than with Buffy. Still, I'd hate to think what would result if >vampires could have children without Jasmine there to magic up the >works. I mean, look how stupid Connor was, and his mother had a brain. A vampire Turnip? A vampire Cabbage? >> (Hey, what are you looking down here for?) > >'Cause that's where Google puts the 'Post a reply to this message' >link. They should fix that then. :-) Stephen Weick "ME repeats itself, first as a tragedy, then as a farce." - Terry McNeal

2003-12-17 08:38:56-08:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (tymcneal@hotmail.com)


Spoilers for episode 12. . . . . . sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message news:<20031210221601.28496.00002662@mb-m18.aol.com>... > In article <26b7e9d4.0312091247.1b18ac7@posting.google.com>, > tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: > > >sweick@aol.commmmmmmm (SWeick) wrote in message > >news:<20031207205259.25815.00004991@mb-m07.aol.com>... > >> In article <26b7e9d4.0312031120.2f1b5b7e@posting.google.com>, > >> tymcneal@hotmail.com (Terry McNeal) writes: > >> > >Yeah, I read that JAR said he thinks Gunn is evil. Wow, what a > >freakin' great show _Angel_ is turning out to be. > > Well, he didn't want to be the only one not evil on the show. They're all evil now, right? I mean, what with being Satan's toadies and all. > >Huh, you're right, it is an expression of appreciation. Oddly enough, > >I see here that a network guy saying, "Joss, _Fireflop_ sucks ass and > >we're cancelling it" really means, "Joss, we're just too stupid to > >realize your vision of greatness. We so suck, just like that hack > >actor Sutherland." > > Really, I thought it'd mean "Joss, we killed it off by showing it out of > order so that nobody would get your brilliance cause we're all jealous > of your greatness." Hmmm, guess I need a new dictionary. That may be in Joss' thesaurus. > >Before Spuffy anyway. Cordemon could have worked if there'd been more > >thought and less 'wouldn't it be cool if...' > > Spuffy could have worked, if they hadn't rode it into the ground, or into > our faces. Naw. Again, nodding to Micky's wisdom, any romantic or even just sexual liason between Buffy and Spike diminshed both characters. > >> >> So no more "Curses, foilered again!" > >> > > >> >Well, no, there'd be more "Curses, foilered again!" There would be > >> >less "Hah! Foiled'em again!" > >> > >> Grammarist! > > > >Emmiest! > > OK, you got me on that one, just cause I can't figure out what > you're meaning. It's punny. See, Grammarist --> Grammy's, Emmiest --> Emmy's. Okay, it's not even punny. > Catwoman's a beard. Who'd have thunk it. > > Then again, there was that movie with the actress' name > in it... What? Are you saying Patrick Swayze was not playing a pure hetero role there? > >I'm sure calling Robin 'Master Dick' had no subtextual content > >whatsoever. > > LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU! When a tree falls in the forest, it makes a sound whether it's heard or not. > >Exactly. Like, fr'instance, BtVS post-season three. > > Well, college might have worked, but it didn't. I blame the Initiative there. I blame the general inability of anyone to do a college series. Even _Gilmore Girls_ ain't getting it done. But the Initiative did turn _Buffy_ into a farce. GG hasn't done that yet. > So then they decide to have Buffy leave college to the real world, and > that didn't work either. > > Really, they were screwed once they left High School. They should have all flunked out and had to repeat their senior year over and over and over. C'mon, it isn't like Joss has never run an idea into the ground before. > >Darla worked until Minear's redemptionofmygirlfriend episode. Some of > >you may remember it as "Lullaby." > > Hey, she had a soul! Granted, not hers... All she had was Minear's undying devotion. How much do you want to bet against Julie Benz getting a recurring role on _Wonderfalls_? If Fox ever decides to air it, I mean. > >Yes, to the point Angel giving up on redemption is what led to _Days > >of Out Unlives_. Just making it helping the helpless 'cause that's > >what ought to be done would have been good. > > It would have dug them out of that hole of coupon clipping for redemption. So now they've just decided to ignore the concept altogether. Maybe in some ways, that's better than what they were doing. > >Metaphorically speaking, not so lame. The idea behind the guy trying > >to withdraw from participation in the world suddenly getting yelled at > >to get off his ass and get involved worked. The idea the visions > >caused pain worked. They just lingered on too long in that guise. > > Hmmm, how to handle this without being redundant. Probably can't. I know we've been her before. > A guy in the 1850's discovers he's part black and "passing". It destroys > his whole life. He lives alone on the outskirts of town. Three runaway > slaves try to get him to help, but he refuses. Later while riding, he > finds the three slaves lynched, as a warning to others. He goes on > to become a major player in the Underground Railway. > > A guy in Nazi Germany discovers he's part jewish. He hides this "shame". > Some Jews try to get him to help hide them, but he refuses. Later, > he finds some of them dead and the others going to the camps. He goes > on to become a major player in the Resistance Underground. > > So what separates these from Doyle and the vision? My complaint > was Doyle couldn't do anything, as probably neither could these > other two. The difference is they *chose* to make a difference, to > get the ability to help those they couldn't help before. Doyle had > no choice. The visions were forced onto him. They'd happen no > matter what. Your "what if's" fail you, unless you're maintaining Passing Guy and the German Jew secretly wanted to be a part of the opposition but just needed to wait until, by intentionally looking for them, they found enough dead people to, I don't know; give them reason to fulfill their desired goal? > And Doyle never was shown wanting to do this "save a soul" work. And Buffy wanted to be a regular girl and Angel wanted to be a psychotic mass-murderer and Cordy wanted to be an actress. Yet the were all capable of so much more. > He'd rather have been out at a bar drinking or chasing a skirt. While > all those others made it their work. Redemption? Partly, but more > like they had epiphanies. Doyle might have in _Hero_, but he was > dragged to it. Yes. That was the point. As was Cordy and Wes, and most especially, Angel. > Now you can accept that Skip was right and that the visions were a > manipulation tool. Or you could assume that they were a punishment > for not doing something when there was nothing Doyle could have > done. But that seems wrong. And Cordelia gets them because she rated > Willow's outfits? Please. > > That vision problem lead to Jasmine, which ain't a good place to go. A lack of imagination or planning or intelligence or all three led to Jasmine, not the visions. > >> How it was just that Cordy get the visions was too. > > > >I agree. She should have gotten them by making sweet monkey love to > >me. > > Ah, not talking about your delusions. I prefer the word, "fantasies." > Besides, those are *my* delusions! In this case, I prefer the word "delusions." > Oh, not what you meant? Okay. But the visions worked for Cordy > >better than for Doyle up until they lingered on too long. The problem > >was what ME did with the visions, and I don't mean Cordemon. I mean > >what they did after that. > > A little clarification here. Cause I see them being a total problem > to begin with. Without the flaws in Birthday, you don't get Inside Out. > Without the way they wrote the Cordemon, bringing forth a Saint Cordy > feel to it, you wouldn't have gotten Tomorrow. The visions did not necessitate any of this though. You could easily have gotten Cordy to where she needed to be without the histrionics. That's a failure by the writers, not of the concept. > To me, the Cordemon is just as "wouldn't it be cool if" as anything else, > plain not well thought out. Again, though, a writer's failure, not the concept's. > >I suppose when you're so busy doing "cool" things 'cause they're > >"cool" and you don't consider the ramifications, it's hard to try to > >make the various threads look like some part of a whole. Fortunately > >for Joss, the devout will wank his story for him. > > As long as it's just stories. > > Cause otherwise, ewww. A place only the truly devout will go. You'll know who they are 'cause they'll think the episode Fury changed "BUFFY" to "CORDELIA" in is a satisfying wrap-up for the character instead of Joss doing nothing but taking Cordy out of a coma and making her disappear. My only hope is now that SMG has confirmed she won't come anywhere near _Angel_, Joss will get stiffed by Charisma as well. For that way lies HarmonieNAngle4EVAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >Well, you know, it was important that a character we'd never see again > >be the only one who Angel could talk to his epiphany about. So maybe > >Angel will have another epiphany and he can talk to Cordelia about it. > > Well, she was ticked off at Angel. > > Hey, it could have been worse. It could have been Gunn. The slashers would have enjoyed it anyway. > >> We have a self-appointed humor-challenged newsgroup police? > > > >Isn't that a requirement? > > It does seem like it. No, I think it's an actual requirement. I've yet to see a newsgroup without one. > >And how are you seeing this reply if > >you're killfiling the nutcases? > > Being obsessed over CC isn't being a nutcase. > > Now being a Red Sox fan... Saying, 'Wait until next year' over and over, expecting a different result isn't insanity. Just ask Joss. > >Or have her come back as the Keebler Elf. Then you don't have a > >sorry-ass metaphor, you have an elf baking like Mrs. Fields. Where > >have you gone, Joe Campbell...aggio? > > Sometimes a deer is just a deer? Sometimes a deer is just a cigar. > >It at least gets Angel into the limo. The rest are still a mystery. > > Lorne's a mystery? Why he's on the series is a mystery. > >I almost wish _Angel_ would go on another season so that _The Charisma > >Show_ could come on ABC on Wednesday at nine and kick _Angel_'s ass. > >But then that'd mean another year for that poor deceased horse to get > >beaten. > > Really. Besides, has DB decided if he's coming back for S6? Not so's anyone's noticed. But I don't think it's going to be an issue. > Not that Joss wouldn't love to try to do a _Blake's Seven_, but > not seeing the WB going for a series called Angel without an > Angel. Hard to see the WB going for another season of a series called _Angel_ without Angel. Depending on the ratings for episode twelve, they may not want to finish a series called _Angel_ without Cordelia. > >Never? Even before Joss proved how dumb he is by firing Charisma? > > Ah, with the announcement of her coming back. Sorry, no ESP > from me. Okay then. > >> Screw credit, I'd just like more Cordy. > > > >Look elsewhere then. > > There are my tapes and DVDs. Maybe Trio will show _Malibu Shores_. Then there'll be more tapes. > >I read that CC told Wrongda she wasn't going back again. Whether that > >was CC giving her answer or CC saying what ME already told her I don't > >know, but there it is. > > As we expected it to be. After hearing about Charisma's intro at the party, or rather, lack thereof, it's clear why. After reading the synopsis of episode 12, the clarity becomes redundant. > Since Christian Kane said episode 12 is All. > >About. Lindsey., I could believe CC wouldn't care to return and take a > >chance on playing second to, say, Merle. > > Hey, Merle had some class! > > Not sure where he stole it from, but hey, he had some. It'd explain a lot about Angel if Merle was a class-sucking demon. > Besides it being Wronga, I would suspect it will be Joss showing > Cordelia as the "old show" and how so much better, more interesting > the "new show" is now, or some such subtext. > > Cause "New and Improved" is always better. You called that. Cordy and Doyle are tossed aside like yesterday's trash. Still. I can't help but think the message actually left behind will be, 'Yes, we know those were the glory days of _Angel_, but this is the crap we're feeding you now, so shut up and thank us for it.' Anyway, CC's well rid of them. > >Okay, fool me a half dozen times. But I have to draw a line somewhere. > > Really. We have integrity. > > Just not much. Well, enough in this case. > >> >So how 'bout them Bengals? > >> > >> As a Browns fan, waiting for them to have injuries like the rest of > >> the NFL. > >> > >> Not happy they lost to the Ravens, cause, well, Browns fan, but > >> happy they lost. > > > >Does it really matter given the year the Browns are having, or is it > >one of those interstate rivalry things? > > > You mean the team that was stolen from us verses the interstate > rivalry thang? Ah, no. I meant intrastate. I can understand why Baltimore beating anyone is not of the good, but given that Cleveland is going nowhere, why not root for the perpetual underdogs down there in Cincy? It's the American way. > >Makes you wonder how well they'd fare. Though Angel would be better > >off than with Buffy. Still, I'd hate to think what would result if > >vampires could have children without Jasmine there to magic up the > >works. I mean, look how stupid Connor was, and his mother had a brain. > > A vampire Turnip? A vampire Cabbage? Why are you insulting poor, innocent vegetables? Terry

2003-12-20 18:56:27+00:00 - Re: Remembering the old newsgroup. (Was: ME = ?) - (Reginald Bautista <rbautista@kc.rr.com>)


"Terry McNeal" <tymcneal@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:26b7e9d4.0312170838.578fd5bd@posting.google.com... > When a tree falls in the forest, it makes a sound whether it's heard > or not. Well, that really depends on how you define sound. What we call "sound" is really just our human perception of rapid changes in air pressure. So when a tree falls in the forest and no human is around to hear it, there are still rapid changes in air pressure, but there is no one to perceive those changes as "sound." Unless, of course, you count the animals living in the forest... :-) Reggie