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2003-03-26 18:59:19-08:00 - 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (gavalos@cctimes.com)


"Players" 3-26-03 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) -George

2003-03-26 22:07:27-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


SDM wrote: > In article <da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com>, > gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: > > > "Players" > > 3-26-03 > > > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > > > -George > > 4.5 > > Some very cool stuff. > > I thought the Wes/Fred scene was excellent. Fred grows up a little bit. > I would love if they could manage to not make this a 'ship for awhile. > > Gunn finally has something to do. I can definitely see where having a > nice simple "save the girl" mission is something he's been waiting for. > I'm a little disappointed in how quickly they hooked him up with Gwen, > and I'm really disappointed at how clumsy his "so I guess that means > you've never" move was. You could barely hear her reply beneath the > sound of his cool deflating. > > Lorne providing his own spooky music. Sweet. A bunch of AIs pointing guns at Cordelia just as she is about to kill Lorne. Lorne's 8 ball saying that Cordelia has definetely been naughty! Lorne had lost his empathic powers. Does that explain why Lorne didn't detect Angelus after Cordelia's fake reensoulment spell?

2003-03-26 22:08:18-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


SDM wrote: > In article <da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com>, > gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: > > > "Players" > > 3-26-03 > > > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > > > -George > > 4.5 > > Some very cool stuff. > > I thought the Wes/Fred scene was excellent. Fred grows up a little bit. > I would love if they could manage to not make this a 'ship for awhile. > > Gunn finally has something to do. I can definitely see where having a > nice simple "save the girl" mission is something he's been waiting for. > I'm a little disappointed in how quickly they hooked him up with Gwen, > and I'm really disappointed at how clumsy his "so I guess that means > you've never" move was. You could barely hear her reply beneath the > sound of his cool deflating. I was half expecting Fred to walk in on Gwen and Gunn!

2003-03-26 22:08:33-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


LyndaNP wrote: > On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:59:19 -0500, George Avalos wrote > (in message <da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com>): > > > "Players" > > 3-26-03 > > > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > > > -George > > A strong 5 Me too!

2003-03-26 22:26:26-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (The Babaloughesian <me@privacy.net>)


"George Avalos" <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote in message news:da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com... > "Players" > 3-26-03 5. It's about time Gunn actually got to do something, not to mention someone.

2003-03-26 22:31:17-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - ("Dr. Doom" <drdoomisthebigbad@hotmail.com>)


"George Avalos" <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote in message news:da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com... > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George 3.7

2003-03-26 22:40:04-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (kel3@webtv.net)


3.5 I wasn't thrilled with the Electro Girl/Gunn subplot. Thank goodness they finally revealed EvilCordy which is worth points in my book.I was getting really tired of it. I do wonder what that DemonBaby is going to look like though...It was pretty dang lively in there. Kelly

2003-03-26 22:47:00-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Matt Levy <mattlsp@yahoo.com>)


"George Avalos" <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote in message news:da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com... > "Players" > 3-26-03 3.0

2003-03-26 23:06:20-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Rose wrote: > 3.5 > > Decent enough ep and it's nice to see Gunn get respect, but I was kinda > impatient with him for putting up with being jerked around. > > So what tipped them off about Cordy? Was it Connor? I suspect that Angel with his superhearing overheard Cordy planning to kill Lorne. I don't expect those guns to balk Evil Cordy for long! After all, she was able to boink the Beast with no ill effect!:)

2003-03-26 23:28:09-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Ebie <sybil5000@yahoo.com>)


Thus spake gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos): >"Players" >3-26-03 > >5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > >0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) 4.2 I like Gunn. Glad for a Gunncentric ep. Glad for very little Connor/Cordy Creepiness. Glad for Evil!Cordy to get revealed! I hate it when that sort of thing drags out too long; this was a goodly amount of time. Glad for the Gunn/Gwen action -- for itself, and because well, I'm ready to see if the Fred/Wes thing works. And Angel himself seemed on top of it all for once. Good ep. -- The past is too malleable to be used as a crutch. -- Paul Zilis

2003-03-26 23:31:02-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Ebie <sybil5000@yahoo.com>)


Thus spake gbyron2@aol.com (GByron2): >>From: John DiFool jdifool@earthlink.net > >> So they aren't allowed to ever break away from the main arc >>anymore to attempt a (semi-) stand-alone ep? Give me a break. >> >> John DiFool >> > >Sure they can break away for a stand-alone if it's worthwhile. A love interest >storyline for Gunn hardly qualifies (unless you enjoy horrible soap opera-ish >dialogue), imo. Other than the fantastic ending, the ep was a waste, and >coming so late in the season...what was the point? Gunn got to say that what's been happening at the hotel was a "turgid soap opera". Worth it for that alone :) But also he got his self-esteem boosted, and not just by Gwen. He got to kick some ass, and really didn't have to sweat the morality too much. It was good for him. Or -- the point was that Connor was hardly in the ep :) -- The past is too malleable to be used as a crutch. -- Paul Zilis

2003-03-27 00:27:27-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On 26 Mar 2003 18:59:19 -0800, gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: >"Players" >3-26-03 > >5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > >0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > >-George 3.0 Nothing great but nothing terrible. Gunn's line about feeling like he's been trapped in a turgid supernatural soap opera for the past year was a big positive. The scenes of him and Gwen stealing LISA didn't make much sense at all The ending was good and finally moved the plot along. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-03-27 01:13:30-06:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote in <da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com>: > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > Things felt a little slow this week after three weeks of Faith. 3.88888881989

2003-03-27 01:33:46-06:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (JohnJacob <JJ@JJ.com>)


"George Avalos" <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote in message news:da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com... > "Players" > 3-26-03 4.2 You know, I'm really getting sick of Connor. I was never one of those people that hated Dawn on BtVS. Although she also seems superfluous, she's not nearly as annoying. I want to change the channel when he's on screen. Gwen is starting to grow on me. Gunn kicked ass (literally and figuratively) tonight. Last man standing AND gets the girl.

2003-03-27 01:44:34-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com>, George Avalos <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote: > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George 2.0 It would have scored a lot better if they dropped the Gunn/Gwen sub-plot. I kept wanting to change the channel through the Gunn/Gwen parts. It was so obvious that she was playing him from the start, and became more so when the little girl actually showed up at the party (Hello! What sort of moron brings a kidnap victim out in the open at a party like that, especially if they're planning to murder her that night?) best part of the whole thing were Gwen's outfits, and then when she took off her top to let Gunn put the gizmo on her back (very nice back.) The other story was pretty well done. Angel tells Wes that Angelus didn't kill Lilah, they start figuring out stuff about the Beastmaster. Connor looks like he might have a couple of functioning brain cells for a bit, (but then they stop working again) and in the end, they lay a trap and catch Cordy in the act of attempting to murder Lorne. I noticed that Connor was missing from the end bit, so it looks like he's got some bad news coming next week. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-03-27 03:04:36+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (bicklecub@aol.com)


***** My favorite this season, BY FAR! How perfect is Gwen/Gunn? I didn't realize how absolutely perfect this relationship was until tonight. The whole "holding hands" recurrant theme. Gunn (FINALLY!) being seen as more than muscle (a theme begun in "Fredless" last year and harped on over and over.) The Fang Gang turns out to be much smarter than I was giving them credit for. And the final, tense moments, I was completely sure that Lorne was going to die. Then BAM! (What is it about Fred with a gun that makes me so happy?) Sigh. SOOOO content right now.

2003-03-27 03:12:42+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (gbyron2@aol.com)


>"Players" >3-26-03 > >5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > >0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > I've really enjoyed the season so far, BUT this ep was total crap. There is no point to the Gunn/Electric Girl "love story" or whatever the heck it is, and all it did was take away valuable time from the main storyline. A great ending, but one minute can't overcome the rest of the wasted ep. 0 stars.

2003-03-27 03:16:32+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (SDM <smeyer@mac.com>)


In article <da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com>, gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George 4.5 Some very cool stuff. I thought the Wes/Fred scene was excellent. Fred grows up a little bit. I would love if they could manage to not make this a 'ship for awhile. Gunn finally has something to do. I can definitely see where having a nice simple "save the girl" mission is something he's been waiting for. I'm a little disappointed in how quickly they hooked him up with Gwen, and I'm really disappointed at how clumsy his "so I guess that means you've never" move was. You could barely hear her reply beneath the sound of his cool deflating. Lorne providing his own spooky music. Sweet. "Strangling poultry". That's the sophisticated ME humor I know. Good job of misdirection. I called all of the twists correctly, but I was guessing, and mostly because I've watched TV before. They could easily have gone the other way on every one of them, and I wouldn't feel cheated. Couple of 10ths off for the awkwardness of the execution of the caper subplot. Too much time with not enough guards around, way too much of Gunn and Gwen whispering while they should have been under intense scrutiny. Steve

2003-03-27 03:25:41+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (3cjmd@comcast.net)


4.5. (I'm top-posting for a reason; don't scroll all the way below, or you'll feel like a fool and rightly so). Cheers, Jaime On 26 Mar 2003 18:59:19 -0800, gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: >"Players" >3-26-03 > >5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > >0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > >-George

2003-03-27 03:28:35+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Hawkboy <dobby@msn.com>)


> On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:59:19 -0500, George Avalos wrote > (in message <da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com>): > > > "Players" > > 3-26-03 > > > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > > > -George 4.5 Even pregnant Cordy looks HOT! And Gunn did very well by himself!

2003-03-27 03:42:14+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.angel, gavalos@cctimes.com wrote in article <da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com>... > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George > 3 stars. (Jim Plunkett in the Super Bowl. Not flashy but gets the job done.) -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-03-27 03:45:29+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (John DiFool <jdifool@earthlink.net>)


GByron2 wrote: > >"Players" > >3-26-03 > > > >5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > > >0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > > > I've really enjoyed the season so far, BUT this ep was total crap. There is no > point to the Gunn/Electric Girl "love story" or whatever the heck it is, and > all it did was take away valuable time from the main storyline. A great > ending, but one minute can't overcome the rest of the wasted ep. > > 0 stars. So they aren't allowed to ever break away from the main arc anymore to attempt a (semi-) stand-alone ep? Give me a break. John DiFool -- ============================================ Reach heaven far too high ============================================

2003-03-27 03:46:43+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Darrell Braswell <dpbraswell@attbi.com>)


Top posting. I give at a solid 4 "George Avalos" <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote in message news:da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com... > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George

2003-03-27 03:56:21+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (gbyron2@aol.com)


>From: John DiFool jdifool@earthlink.net > So they aren't allowed to ever break away from the main arc >anymore to attempt a (semi-) stand-alone ep? Give me a break. > > John DiFool > Sure they can break away for a stand-alone if it's worthwhile. A love interest storyline for Gunn hardly qualifies (unless you enjoy horrible soap opera-ish dialogue), imo. Other than the fantastic ending, the ep was a waste, and coming so late in the season...what was the point?

2003-03-27 04:25:40-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (salmoneous@aol.com)


> "Players" I've complained before that Fred/Gunn don't make good leads. Well, I now have to revise that since Gwen/Gunn were great as leads in players. OK, I'm biased and pretty much love everything Gwen does, but I now see Gunn can hold his own now that he's got the right partner. Loved it. As a fanboy, I loved the bits where Gwen questioned why he stays with AI, and he realized that he's been in a soap opera rather than fighting the good fight. And the Lorne in the basement scene was top notch all the way around. But we have to take off just a few points. We Gunn repeated the bit about doing good, even I caught on that it was a setup. And even though Connor's screentime was minimal, it was painful. 4.8 stars (Terry Bradshaw. PS George - the guys got 4 rings, doesn't he deserve the 5.0 spot?) Points to ponder: 1) Will Fred pull a Lilah and dress up a Gwen to try and win Gunn back? 2) Where exactly did Cordy get that dress? 3) Wes might now have Slayer/Vampire healing powers, but he sure is cleaning up fast 4) Have I mentioned how much I love Gwenn? 5) This is the 3rd or 4th time this year ME has let a character be the voice of the fanboy and point out what is wrong with one of the shows. If they see the problems as clearly as we do, why do they make the mistakes in the first place?

2003-03-27 04:28:42+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (nixfamily2409@aol.com)


>"George Avalos" <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote in message >news:da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com... >> "Players" >> 3-26-03 > >3.0 > I give it a 4.5. I take points off for evil Cordy thinking a simple knife job will do away with Lorne. As we know from season 2, even cutting his head off didn't do the job so a simple knife in the back (or fill in the body part) ain't gonna do it. I did like the Angel vampire-hearing thing (which goes a long way towards explaining why he would be suspicious of Cordy), Angel's failed attempts to get the text correct, Lorne is always good and Connor finally questions Cordelia about the stuff she had him do last time. Of course, he's still not smart enough to know something's up, but that was more balls than he's shown with her so far. Nix

2003-03-27 04:35:00+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (David Cornette <david@davidcornette.com>)


George Avalos <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote: > "Players" > 3-26-03 > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) 4.7 -- David Cornette david@davidcornette.com Baseball Pythagorean Projections http://www.davidcornette.com/projection/ An Izzy Alcantara Fan Site http://www.davidcornette.com/izzy/ Selig Sucks T-Shirts http://www.cafeshops.com/seligsucks

2003-03-27 04:37:13-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (lisacoulter@hotmail.com)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote in message news:<da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com>... > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George 4.75 I'm really enjoying Angel this season! And I liked Gunn and Gwen quite a bit. They make a nice duo! The end, with the gang pointing weapons at Cordy, and Lorne and the 8 ball, was classic. Lisa Coulter

2003-03-27 04:57:46+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Captain Average <captain.average@shaw.ca>)


4.0 "George Avalos" <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote in message news:da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com... > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George

2003-03-27 05:04:50-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (bergeg@parl.gc.ca)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote in message news:<da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com>... > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George 4 stars. Easily one of the best Gunn episode in the series. I was afraid that the show would go downhill once Faith left again, but I was pleasantly surprised. I also liked Cordelia's performance, It really worked for me (for once).

2003-03-27 05:14:04+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Shawn Hill <shill@fas.harvard.edu>)


In alt.tv.angel George Avalos <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote: : "Players" : 3-26-03 : 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) : 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) : -George To quote Monica on Friends: It just got INTERESTING!!! This season has resurrected itself completely. If we're gonna get Gunn and Gwen, then sacrificing Gunn and Fred was worth it. Gunn going into the rich people's party brought lots of Angel old-school memories back for me: Cordy at the demon's party in S1 (of course the 'previously on' helped), Wesley dating the sorcerer's daughter, but this one had new twists. And, unlike Connor/Cordy, no ick factor. Loved the ending. Was really dreading seeing Lorne get hurt AGAIN. 4.0. Chugging right along. Can Faith come back just to hit Connor some more? I mean, you know if he can figure Cordemon out, the rest of them had to, right? Shawn

2003-03-27 05:15:13-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (KenM47 <KenM47@ix.netcom.com>)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: >"Players" >3-26-03 > >5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > >0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > >-George Wheels! Spin! Go nowhere! 2.0 Ken

2003-03-27 05:24:25-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (KenM47 <KenM47@ix.netcom.com>)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >On 26 Mar 2003 18:59:19 -0800, gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: > >>"Players" >>3-26-03 >> >>5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) >> >>0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) >> >>-George > >3.0 > >Nothing great but nothing terrible. Gunn's line about feeling like he's >been trapped in a turgid supernatural soap opera for the past year was a big >positive. The scenes of him and Gwen stealing LISA didn't make much sense >at all >The ending was good and finally moved the plot along. > > Agreed. But where did this Gunn come from? What have we ever seen to suggest that he could James Bond like that and smooth into a party with a Japanese host? It almost seemed like Gunn's Shaman induced dream. Are they contemplating an ElectroGirl/Gunn spinoff? Seemed like it! Oh, there was that Conner shout out when he said "And none of you like me." Ken (sticking to the 2.0)

2003-03-27 05:38:02+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (AE Jabbour <aej17DELETEME@comcast.net>)


3.0 I very much enjoyed the sequences with Gwen and Gunn. It was nice to see Gunn being suave, and they had some nice chemistry. Both stories, however, suffered from being obvious. The Cordelia sequences especially were painfully telegraphed. But I won't complain too much, since it is good to finally see some movement on that front. Also, Connor showed that he isn't *THE* dumbest person alive. At least he is trying. Overall, this was fairly average, though, again, I enjoyed the Gwen/ Gunn parts. I am troubled by the continuing approach by the writers of including long spoken exposition. At this point, either you have been watching the show, or you haven't. I miss stand-alones. -- A.E. Jabbour "IN the second century of the Christian era, the Empire of Rome comprehended the fairest part of the earth, and the most civilised portion of mankind." Edward Gibbon, "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"

2003-03-27 06:38:11+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


3.5 Decent enough ep and it's nice to see Gunn get respect, but I was kinda impatient with him for putting up with being jerked around. So what tipped them off about Cordy? Was it Connor? Rose "No man is an island, entire of itself." -- John Donne Girls have human rights, too

2003-03-27 07:10:30-06:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Angie <estes@dontneedtoknow.com>)


4.5 Great episode. Angie "George Avalos" <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote in message news:da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com... > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George

2003-03-27 07:10:49+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


4.35 Man, I hate staying up this late to watch Angel but at least I can FF through the commercials. I actually liked both Gunn and Fred this episode. Connor's finally figuiring out that Cordy may be lying to him. AI Inc did a beautiful set up job on Cordy. That was a great ending. We all laughed at the magic eight ball. Too tired to think so will post more tomorrow. -- Best regards Linda Mmmmmm. Angel

2003-03-27 07:12:24+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Linda <lindaDELETESPAM@susieword.com>)


"BickleCub" <bicklecub@aol.com> wrote in message news:20030326220436.00822.00000878@mb-ch.aol.com... > ***** My favorite this season, BY FAR! How perfect is Gwen/Gunn? I didn't > realize how absolutely perfect this relationship was until tonight. The whole > "holding hands" recurrant theme. Gunn (FINALLY!) being seen as more than > muscle (a theme begun in "Fredless" last year and harped on over and over.) > The Fang Gang turns out to be much smarter than I was giving them credit for. > And the final, tense moments, I was completely sure that Lorne was going to > die. Then BAM! (What is it about Fred with a gun that makes me so happy?) > > Sigh. SOOOO content right now. But what is your rating of the episode? -- Best regards Linda Mmmmmm. Angel

2003-03-27 07:44:03-06:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Sean <Stalky15-1@excite.com>)


In article <da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com>, George Avalos wrote: > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) What about Telly Sevalas in Vegas? Bah. 8^) 4.3 because of the ending, Cordy's hot dress, and ElectroGirl. God, I love ElectroGirl. It's interesting to note that Gunn and Wesley have changed places. Gunn is with the ambiguously evil chick and Wesley is with Fred. That's good arc writing. Propz for that. Points off for Gunn not seeing the obvious setup for what it was. ...Sean.

2003-03-27 07:57:09-06:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Sean <Stalky15-1@excite.com>)


In article <e4k58vgqp2fbjh8sdi50h4rosql5l4ia3o@4ax.com>, KenM47 wrote: > Are they contemplating an ElectroGirl/Gunn spinoff? Seemed like > it! I'd watch that! ...Sean.

2003-03-27 09:14:19-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - ("C.L. Lassiter" <seaelle@unc.edu>)


In alt.tv.angel George Avalos <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote: > "Players" > 3-26-03 > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > -George -- 3.0 Ending was brilliant, but.... I guess I'm one of the few not enraptured with Electric Lass. The whole kidnapping thing was sooooo boring to me. And I'm getting this sinking feeling that if Angel is renewed that CC is going to leave to care for her kid and that we're being groomed for her replacement. cl

2003-03-27 10:50:45-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 05:24:25 -0500, KenM47 <KenM47@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >>3.0 >> >>Nothing great but nothing terrible. Gunn's line about feeling like he's >>been trapped in a turgid supernatural soap opera for the past year was a big >>positive. The scenes of him and Gwen stealing LISA didn't make much sense >>at all >>The ending was good and finally moved the plot along. >> >> > >Agreed. But where did this Gunn come from? What have we ever seen to >suggest that he could James Bond like that and smooth into a party >with a Japanese host? It almost seemed like Gunn's Shaman induced >dream. Are they contemplating an ElectroGirl/Gunn spinoff? Seemed like >it! Gunn's never been stupid so I was able to buy that. He was actually portrayed as much more capable way back when Angel first met him than he has in a long while. Mostly he's been cannon fodder. Even Gunn explained his smoothness by saying he'd watched a lot of movies. He's got a lot of confidence and just faked his way through. What bothered me in those scenes was how Gunn was able to grab the kid, make it to some room where he has his big fight then when he discovers he's been had he immediately turns up back where Gwen's trying to get into the safe. Huh? How does he know where to go and how does he make it there without anyone else noticing? And as Don pointed out, it was pretty obvious when seeing the kid at the party that she wasn't a kidnap victim. >Oh, there was that Conner shout out when he said "And none of you like >me." Yeah, that was good too. Too bad the whole Cordy being pregnant plot just reminds people more of Connor. That's the 3rd pregnancy on this show in 5 seasons and two of them have been integral parts of season-long arcs. With all the shows killed by plots involving babies, Team Whedon is sure pressing their luck. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-03-27 11:04:43-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Randy Money <rbmoney@spamblocklibrary.syr.edu>)


George Avalos wrote: > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George 4.5 Quite a good episode, even though the trap for Cordy was telegraphed -- I have to be alone, just me, by myself, applying the mo-jo, in the dark, deep deep down and away ... Good things: -- Gunn has consistently been marginalized as a character so it's about time they gave him something to do and I added .25 above for actually showing his brain at work in the process; I also expect if they keep putting Richards in dress clothes the female fan base for Angel can only grow -- Wes/Angel conversing about Lilah: nicely done and underplayed; Angel apologizes first for a change; bridges being rebuilt -- Wes/Fred on Lilah, a bit more awkward but I thought Acker and Denisof worked well together -- conversation between Angel and Cordy about the big bad was fun; Carpenter was excellent in this exchange in showing the ego bruised and enraged, and trying to hide same -- if there must be coupling, Gwen/Gunn may have more chemistry than any couple they've shown in awhile, even deactivated there were sparks (*cough*) -- Carpenter was very good throughout; this ep and, I suspect, the next couple will depend on her being able to hold her own; she showed she could do that here And that's about enough from me. Randy M.

2003-03-27 11:09:57-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Randy Money <rbmoney@spamblocklibrary.syr.edu>)


GByron2 wrote: >>From: John DiFool jdifool@earthlink.net > > >> So they aren't allowed to ever break away from the main arc >>anymore to attempt a (semi-) stand-alone ep? Give me a break. >> >> John DiFool >> > > > Sure they can break away for a stand-alone if it's worthwhile. A love interest > storyline for Gunn hardly qualifies (unless you enjoy horrible soap opera-ish > dialogue), imo. Other than the fantastic ending, the ep was a waste, and > coming so late in the season...what was the point? The beginning of setting up for next season, if there is one. Randy M.

2003-03-27 11:16:44+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (thewitch@unagi.cybernothing.org)


In rec.arts.sf.tv George Avalos <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote: > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) 4 Much better than I was expecting. I just hope they force Cordy to change out of that skanky black outfit. Don't know why it bugs me so much but it does. -- TheWitch I wash my hands even more now, ever since the Pamela Anderson disease outbreak in food places around here. - Lots42

2003-03-27 11:30:11-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (jerrymc@cloud9.net)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote in message news:<da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com>... > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George 3.8 Good standalone story for Gunn - this is who the character should have been all along. I haven't liked Gwen previously, but she had good chemistry with Gunn, which made her a lot more tolerable this time. Some good material for Wes, and I liked that Angel showed some respect for the fact that Lilah did matter to Wes, regardless of how Angel felt about her. I liked that Angel was smart enough to put the pieces together about Cordelius. But Cordelius herself just isn't very interesting, and Connor remains a black hole in the middle of my TV screen.

2003-03-27 11:33:39+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Carey <tedjr*nopam*@rogers.com>)


"George Avalos" <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote in message news:da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com... > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George I give this episode 4 stars, with another half pending the next episode. Some real positives: 1. Gunn Granted the story was a bit week, with the inevitable double cross. However, this is the Gunn that has not been around for a while. Remember, before joining AI, Gunn had gathered together a team (gang?) and was able to equip them to fight vampires. That talks to logistics, training, fundraising and many other things that have not been mentioned. While he likely was lacking in academic training, I would expect a strong, native intelligence and resourcefulness. When you watch how well he handled the bo in the fight scene, you know that he has been trained by more than just watching samurai movies. And that was a great fight scene, punctuated at the end by the tie straightening finish. 2. The Ending The AI team has caught Cordelia red-handed. I look forward to learning how. But it was great to see the use of intelligence and guile rather than violence. The Pending Half point: Gunn and Gwen do not have to become a couple. Both were pumped from the adventure and Gwen is an involuntary virgin wishing to lose the status. The timing for fun was right. However, a serious relationship is not required. It might be fun to have Gwen coming by to visit Gunn for refresher courses. Not a love thing, just her making up for the lost time. If Gunn returns to the whipped state he had with Fred, no extra half point.

2003-03-27 15:38:51+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (pv+usenet@pobox.com)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) writes: >"Players" >3-26-03 > >5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) 4.5. This worked on so many different levels, from the (literal) sparks between Gwen and Gunn, to everybody figuring out almost immediately that Cordy was a bad girl, and watching her for the smoking gun (or the bloody dagger). * -- * PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something like corkscrews.

2003-03-27 17:10:29+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Shawn Hill <shill@fas.harvard.edu>)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: : Gunn's never been stupid so I was able to buy that. He was actually : portrayed as much more capable way back when Angel first met him than he has : in a long while. Mostly he's been cannon fodder. Even Gunn explained his : smoothness by saying he'd watched a lot of movies. He's got a lot of : confidence and just faked his way through. I thought Gwen wasn't too off-base in alluding to the rest of the team hemming him in and defining him in a limiting way. : anyone else noticing? And as Don pointed out, it was pretty obvious when : seeing the kid at the party that she wasn't a kidnap victim. Gwen's a good liar, and a smooth operator. : reminds people more of Connor. That's the 3rd pregnancy on this show in 5 : seasons and two of them have been integral parts of season-long arcs. With : all the shows killed by plots involving babies, Team Whedon is sure pressing : their luck. Speaking of which, Spoilers for next week: Not to mention the impending horror of Darla's ghost. Shawn

2003-03-27 17:32:37+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (snart@nospam.com)


On 26 Mar 2003 18:59:19 -0800, George Avalos <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote: >"Players" >3-26-03 > >5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > >0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) 3.0 the gunn/gwen stuff was a little slow, and it was sooo obvious that she was playing him from the start (even the ep title was a giveaway). everything at the hotel was worthwhile though, and the ending was delicious. "definitely." -rs-

2003-03-27 21:04:15-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


Carey wrote: > "George Avalos" <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote in message > news:da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com... > > "Players" > > 3-26-03 > > > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > > > -George > > I give this episode 4 stars, with another half pending the next episode. > > Some real positives: > > 1. Gunn > Granted the story was a bit week, with the inevitable double cross. However, > this is the Gunn that has not been around for a while. Remember, before > joining AI, Gunn had gathered together a team (gang?) and was able to equip > them to fight vampires. That talks to logistics, training, fundraising and > many other things that have not been mentioned. While he likely was lacking > in academic training, I would expect a strong, native intelligence and > resourcefulness. > > When you watch how well he handled the bo in the fight scene, you know that > he has been trained by more than just watching samurai movies. And that was > a great fight scene, punctuated at the end by the tie straightening finish. > > 2. The Ending > The AI team has caught Cordelia red-handed. I look forward to learning how. > But it was great to see the use of intelligence and guile rather than > violence. > > The Pending Half point: > > Gunn and Gwen do not have to become a couple. Both were pumped from the > adventure and Gwen is an involuntary virgin wishing to lose the status. The > timing for fun was right. However, a serious relationship is not required. > It might be fun to have Gwen coming by to visit Gunn for refresher courses. > Not a love thing, just her making up for the lost time. > > If Gunn returns to the whipped state he had with Fred, no extra half point. Will you add any points if Fred catches Gunn and Gwen?

2003-03-27 21:07:24-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


Shawn Hill wrote: > EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > > : Gunn's never been stupid so I was able to buy that. He was actually > : portrayed as much more capable way back when Angel first met him than he has > : in a long while. Mostly he's been cannon fodder. Even Gunn explained his > : smoothness by saying he'd watched a lot of movies. He's got a lot of > : confidence and just faked his way through. > > I thought Gwen wasn't too off-base in alluding to the rest of the team > hemming him in and defining him in a limiting way. > > : anyone else noticing? And as Don pointed out, it was pretty obvious when > : seeing the kid at the party that she wasn't a kidnap victim. > > Gwen's a good liar, and a smooth operator. > > : reminds people more of Connor. That's the 3rd pregnancy on this show in 5 > : seasons and two of them have been integral parts of season-long arcs. With > : all the shows killed by plots involving babies, Team Whedon is sure pressing > : their luck. > > Speaking of which, Spoilers for next week: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 > > > Not to mention the impending horror of Darla's ghost. A ghost with fangs and a bumpy forehead, oh my!:)

2003-03-27 21:22:07-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


EGK wrote: > On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:07:24 -0800, Tim Bruening > <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: > > > > > > >Shawn Hill wrote: > > > >> EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > >> > >> : Gunn's never been stupid so I was able to buy that. He was actually > >> : portrayed as much more capable way back when Angel first met him than he has > >> : in a long while. Mostly he's been cannon fodder. Even Gunn explained his > >> : smoothness by saying he'd watched a lot of movies. He's got a lot of > >> : confidence and just faked his way through. > >> > >> I thought Gwen wasn't too off-base in alluding to the rest of the team > >> hemming him in and defining him in a limiting way. > >> > >> : anyone else noticing? And as Don pointed out, it was pretty obvious when > >> : seeing the kid at the party that she wasn't a kidnap victim. > >> > >> Gwen's a good liar, and a smooth operator. > >> > >> : reminds people more of Connor. That's the 3rd pregnancy on this show in 5 > >> : seasons and two of them have been integral parts of season-long arcs. With > >> : all the shows killed by plots involving babies, Team Whedon is sure pressing > >> : their luck. > >> > >> Speaking of which, Spoilers for next week: > > > >1 > >1 > >1 > >1 > >1 > >1 > >1 > >1 > >1 > >1 > >1 > >1 > >1 > >1 > > > >> > >> > >> Not to mention the impending horror of Darla's ghost. > > > >A ghost with fangs and a bumpy forehead, oh my!:) > > > > Didn't you say you were alone in the house this week, Tim? Keep all the > lights on. She'll be comin' for ya. :) Won't the Vampire Ghost need an invitation to get into my house?:)

2003-03-27 22:50:56+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (teneyck@alumnae.caltech.edu)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) writes: >"Players" >3-26-03 >5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) >0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) Fairly good, although a bit of a come-down after the Faith episodes. 3.5. Gwen... I dunno. I like the character, and goodness knows she's easy on the eyes; but she has never seemed to really fit into the show that well. They may be planning to integrate her more into the remaining plot of the season, but so far her little adventure with Gunn was a complete sidebar. A fun sidebar, though; I can see why Gunn enjoyed it, despite being rather blatantly set up. Fighting out of your power league gets old pretty fast; it's nice to hit people who actually fall down. The explanation of what the gizmo was, and did, was peculiarly nonsensical; but then, so has everything else tech-related that they've put in either Buffy or Angel. (Even Firely wisely avoided getting into much detail on what all the gadgets actually did.) And one hopes it has some kind of toggle on it, and she hasn't just permanently turned off her superpowers? I mean, without her electro-powers, she's just a hot babe who is a highly skilled thief, infiltrator, and martial artist; and what's the good of that? :) Oh, yeah, there was the main plot too. It's nice to have Angel back, although one has to admit that Angelus was more entertaining. Wes and Fred were good with what little they had, and Connor may actually have a brain somewhere in his head -- who da' thunk? Evil Cordy... *sigh.* I'm still not buying it. But the set up with Lorne was nice... "Oh, I'll go all by myself into the dark basement, with my back to the door. Did I mention I'd be all by myself?" And the 8-Ball was a very good touch. But did I miss something? Was it previously mentioned that Lorne's empathy powers were on the fritz? Or were we supposed to assume that from his error reading Angel/Angelus, and to notice that Cordy was baking one? Oh, well. At least Cordy is now out in the open; that's a plus. I was finding the bit with nobody knowing it was her kind of tedious. -- ================== http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~teneyck ================== Ross TenEyck Seattle, WA \ Light, kindled in the furnace of hydrogen; teneyck@alumni.caltech.edu \ like smoke, sunlight carries the hot-metal Are wa yume? Soretomo maboroshi? \ tang of Creation's forge.

2003-03-28 00:01:34+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (SDM <smeyer@mac.com>)


In article <au668vsr27qt6i1f6bobgvu1lmqna5hs47@4ax.com>, EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 05:24:25 -0500, KenM47 <KenM47@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > > > >Oh, there was that Conner shout out when he said "And none of you like > >me." > > Yeah, that was good too. Too bad the whole Cordy being pregnant plot just > reminds people more of Connor. That's the 3rd pregnancy on this show in 5 > seasons and two of them have been integral parts of season-long arcs. With > all the shows killed by plots involving babies, Team Whedon is sure pressing > their luck. > Could be worse. I imagine neither Gunn nor Gwen had reason to have birth control readily available. Steve

2003-03-28 00:15:31-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:07:24 -0800, Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: > > >Shawn Hill wrote: > >> EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >> >> : Gunn's never been stupid so I was able to buy that. He was actually >> : portrayed as much more capable way back when Angel first met him than he has >> : in a long while. Mostly he's been cannon fodder. Even Gunn explained his >> : smoothness by saying he'd watched a lot of movies. He's got a lot of >> : confidence and just faked his way through. >> >> I thought Gwen wasn't too off-base in alluding to the rest of the team >> hemming him in and defining him in a limiting way. >> >> : anyone else noticing? And as Don pointed out, it was pretty obvious when >> : seeing the kid at the party that she wasn't a kidnap victim. >> >> Gwen's a good liar, and a smooth operator. >> >> : reminds people more of Connor. That's the 3rd pregnancy on this show in 5 >> : seasons and two of them have been integral parts of season-long arcs. With >> : all the shows killed by plots involving babies, Team Whedon is sure pressing >> : their luck. >> >> Speaking of which, Spoilers for next week: > >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 > >> >> >> Not to mention the impending horror of Darla's ghost. > >A ghost with fangs and a bumpy forehead, oh my!:) > Didn't you say you were alone in the house this week, Tim? Keep all the lights on. She'll be comin' for ya. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-03-28 03:43:34+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Merrick Baldelli <Snark_Lord@mindspring.com>)


On 26 Mar 2003 18:59:19 -0800, gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: >"Players" >3-26-03 > >5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > >0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) 3.5 I liked the misdirection that Angel had going in regards to trapping Cordelia. But the entire Gunn story seemed a waste of time. -- -=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli (((\ \> /_1 ` (\\\\ \_/ / -=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- \ _/ / /

2003-03-28 03:44:17+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Merrick Baldelli <Snark_Lord@mindspring.com>)


On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:07:27 -0800, Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: >Lorne had lost his empathic powers. Does that explain why Lorne didn't >detect Angelus after Cordelia's fake reensoulment spell? I got the impression that the spell was some sort of glamor to fool Lorne into thinking that Angel was re-souled. -- -=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli (((\ \> /_1 ` (\\\\ \_/ / -=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- \ _/ / /

2003-03-28 04:56:46+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.angel, Snark_Lord@mindspring.com wrote in article <hmg78v4j3mhcg9gkbhjd2fo90ucnov9nht@4ax.com>... > On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:07:27 -0800, Tim Bruening > <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: > > >Lorne had lost his empathic powers. Does that explain why Lorne didn't > >detect Angelus after Cordelia's fake reensoulment spell? > > I got the impression that the spell was some sort of glamor to > fool Lorne into thinking that Angel was re-souled. > > > That seems to be the best explanation. Now that Cordelia, the Beast Master, is in the custody of Angel Investigations, perhaps the truth will come out. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-03-28 07:39:02-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Geoduck <geoduck@webave.com>)


On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 22:50:56 +0000 (UTC), teneyck@alumnae.caltech.edu (Ross TenEyck) wrote: (snip) >But the set up with Lorne was nice... "Oh, I'll go all by myself >into the dark basement, with my back to the door. Did I mention >I'd be all by myself?" And the 8-Ball was a very good touch. > >But did I miss something? Was it previously mentioned that Lorne's >empathy powers were on the fritz? Or were we supposed to assume >that from his error reading Angel/Angelus, and to notice that >Cordy was baking one? (snip) It's hard to say right now, since we don't know at what exact point the gang started plotting the sting against Cordy. The whole thing about going off to get 'repaired' could have been a con on Lorne's part. -- Geoduck http://www.olywa.net/cook

2003-03-28 08:45:08+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (quester@infi.net)


On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 01:44:34 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >I kept wanting to change the channel through the Gunn/Gwen parts. It >was so obvious that she was playing him from the start, and became more >so when the little girl actually showed up at the party (Hello! What >sort of moron brings a kidnap victim out in the open at a party like >that, especially if they're planning to murder her that night?) I pretty much have to agree with this. While I would have given long odds right from the start that Gunn was being played HARD, most likely he was so rushed by Gwen that he wouldn't have had time to check her story. So I could sort of go along with it - UNTIL the little girl shows up at the party. Gunn himself comments on the strangeness of it - and then swallows Gwen's super-flimsy explanation. Later, when Gunn seems on the fence about letting Gwen go ahead with the burglary, it also seemed a bit odd that "You can keep the suit" was adequate to make him decide to go along with it. She's stealing a multi-million dollar item while he's being played for a fool into taking part in something most dubious - and he can be bought for a thousand or so in clothes? Since he also gave his name and was seen very well by both the boss and lots of security folks, the odds seem high that he now has a very high price on his head and that lots of people are looking for him. (After all, he's seen lots of movies - he should KNOW that's the natural result.) He must REALLY like that suit.

2003-03-28 17:49:03+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (pv+usenet@pobox.com)


quester@infi.net writes: >he was so rushed by Gwen that he wouldn't have had time to check her > So I could sort of go along with it - UNTIL the little girl >shows up at the party. Gunn himself comments on the strangeness of it >- and then swallows Gwen's super-flimsy explanation. Well, the little girl was right there in front of him, and he so desperately wanted to be the hero that he let the ridiculousness of the situation go by. >Later, when Gunn seems on the fence about letting Gwen go ahead with the >burglary, it >also seemed a bit odd that "You can keep the suit" was adequate >to make him decide to go along with it.

2003-03-28 17:50:45-07:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (slapfish <slapfish@yahoo.com>)


> Couple of 10ths off for the awkwardness of the execution of the caper > subplot. Too much time with not enough guards around, way too much of > Gunn and Gwen whispering while they should have been under intense > scrutiny. Yeah, could they have looked any MORE obvious! Here she was telling the guy in the beginning to stop looking so shifty and she was doing it the whole time they were at the party. That was stupid.

2003-03-28 17:56:43-07:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (slapfish <slapfish@yahoo.com>)


> "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > > -George It pretty much sucked. Especially given the momentum of the last four eps I expected more. I'm glad they finally figured out that Cordie was the evil because I was really beginning to doubt whether there was a brain to share between them. It breaks down like this. -4 for focusing on Gunn. +1 for actually making Gunn somewhat cool again. -1 for making Gwen less cool by hooking her up with Gunn. -1 for more Cordie in the Goth maternity wear. +1 for Connor finally having a clue (knock, knock hellooooo is there anyone in there?) +1 for a decisive Angel and +1 for NO Fred/Gunn soap opera BS. -1 for being incredibly predictable. Total Score 2

2003-03-28 22:37:49-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (David Cheatham <david@creeknet.com>)


In article <smeyer-84DB3C.19013427032003@news.east.cox.net>, smeyer@mac.com says... > In article <au668vsr27qt6i1f6bobgvu1lmqna5hs47@4ax.com>, > EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > > > On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 05:24:25 -0500, KenM47 <KenM47@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > >EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > > > > > > > >Oh, there was that Conner shout out when he said "And none of you like > > >me." > > > > Yeah, that was good too. Too bad the whole Cordy being pregnant plot just > > reminds people more of Connor. That's the 3rd pregnancy on this show in 5 > > seasons and two of them have been integral parts of season-long arcs. With > > all the shows killed by plots involving babies, Team Whedon is sure pressing > > their luck. > > > Could be worse. I imagine neither Gunn nor Gwen had reason to have > birth control readily available. I think Gwen was actually planning to have sex if the mission succeeded, which was another handy reason to just ask for Gunn.

2003-03-28 22:39:34-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (David Cheatham <david@creeknet.com>)


In article <v89rfh334ajh80@corp.supernews.com>, slapfish@yahoo.com says... > > > Couple of 10ths off for the awkwardness of the execution of the caper > > subplot. Too much time with not enough guards around, way too much of > > Gunn and Gwen whispering while they should have been under intense > > scrutiny. > > > Yeah, could they have looked any MORE obvious! Here she was telling the guy > in the beginning to stop looking so shifty and she was doing it the whole > time they were at the party. A couple whispering when they get to a party is not looking shifty. However it did seem overly loud at times. I blame bad sound editing.

2003-03-28 22:50:52-05:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <MPG.18eedf839e2e0098989752@news.direcpc.com>, David Cheatham <david@creeknet.com> wrote: > In article <v89rfh334ajh80@corp.supernews.com>, slapfish@yahoo.com says... > > > > > Couple of 10ths off for the awkwardness of the execution of the caper > > > subplot. Too much time with not enough guards around, way too much of > > > Gunn and Gwen whispering while they should have been under intense > > > scrutiny. > > > > > > Yeah, could they have looked any MORE obvious! Here she was telling the guy > > in the beginning to stop looking so shifty and she was doing it the whole > > time they were at the party. > > A couple whispering when they get to a party is not looking shifty. > > However it did seem overly loud at times. I blame bad sound editing. And they keep whispering to each other and acting shifty after the security guys stopped them at the door, and were questioning the validity of their invitation. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-03-31 06:15:51+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Jonathan Roberts <nartsSPAMegg@pobBEox.coGONEm>)


George Avalos asked: > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) Let's give it a 4.0. -- -- Jon jonathan roberts * guitar keyboard vocal * North River Preservation ------------------------------------------------------------------- My law firm? Naste, Brutus, and Short

2003-03-31 10:36:59+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Brian the Snorf <blehr@gladstone.uoregon.edu>)


"George Avalos" <gavalos@cctimes.com> wrote in message news:da6729e4.0303261859.7f39fcae@posting.google.com... > "Players" > 3-26-03 > > 5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > > 0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) Yeah so this is kind of late because I just saw the episode. And I'm too tired for any analysis, except I will say that I liked the nudity and the lack of Connor. So, anyway, 3.5 stars. Nothing amazing, but good rnough. -Snorf

2003-03-31 22:47:22+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Merrick Baldelli <Snark_Lord@mindspring.com>)


On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:38:51 -0000, pv+usenet@pobox.com (Paul Vader) wrote: >4.5. This worked on so many different levels, from the (literal) sparks >between Gwen and Gunn, to everybody figuring out almost immediately that >Cordy was a bad girl, and watching her for the smoking gun (or the bloody >dagger). * This whole thing between Gwen and Gun was horribly *predictable*. With Gunn & Fred still going through their issues, one could map out the entire illicit affair from beginning to end. -- -=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli (((\ \> /_1 ` (\\\\ \_/ / -=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- \ _/ / /

2003-03-31 23:25:56+00:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On 26 Mar 2003 18:59:19 -0800, gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: >"Players" >3-26-03 > >5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > >0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > >-George 4 stars. Would have been three, but I liked Angel's analysis of Evil Cordelias actions and trap of her.

2003-04-01 23:33:38+02:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (Goran Belaj <goran@phreaker.net>)


On 26 Mar 2003 18:59:19 -0800, gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: >"Players" >3-26-03 > >5 stars (Joe Montana in the Super Bowl) > >0-1 stars (Kordell Stewart in the Super Bowl. Oh, right...) > >-George 4.2 -- Goran Belaj I'll be in my bunk!

2003-04-02 02:07:42-08:00 - Re: 4th Season Angel - Players - 5 star poll - SPOILERS AHOY ! - (jphalt@aol.com)


A solid 3 stars. THE GOOD We get out of the Hyperion! For extended periods of time! We see other human characters who are neither regulars nor recurring characters! It's amazing how much fresher the ep becomes, when we see a few new people and places. I'd unconsciously gotten a bit claustrophobic from the lack of new people & places this season. It was a nice gift. Gunn gets actual character development! And it's even sensible character development! I liked the point made in several scenes--Gunn IS smart, he DOES have those old leadership abilities; and even though it might be a "characterization retcon" to cover the misuse of the character the last 2 seasons, it still works that he's ALLOWED Angel, Wesley, & co. to relegate him to the role of "muscle," when he's capable of much more than that. It's nice to have a reminder that J. August Richards can act, and very well. Too bad he frequently doesn't get much opportunity to do so... All that screen chemistry Gunn never had with Fred? I'm happy to say, IMHO at least, that he does have it with Gwen. And Gwen herself remains an entertaining recurring character. Gunn's big fight scene with the businessmen's thugs. Nicely shot, paced, and edited. It makes sense that Gunn doesn't have much problem with human thugs--after all, he's generally been able to defeat superhuman vamps, so regular people shouldn't be much of a problem. The Fred/Wesley scene, where Wesley talks about some of his feelings over the last year (and Fred, evidently, listens) is a wonderful, quiet little character scene. Nicely done. And Connor grew a brain this ep. Hope it sticks around... Angel baiting Cordy with "the big evil is stupid" was a really fun scene. You could almost see Angelus' buried sadistic side getting a kick out of surreptitiously calling Cordelia an idiot to her face. And Cordy gets caught. Finally. THE BAD When Gwen asks the gang for help, she says "I'm trying to help this girl. That's what you people do, right?" Sorry, Gwen--they really haven't done much "helping" anonymous people for a couple of seasons now. Gunn referring to the events of the last 1 1/2 seasons as a "turgid soap opera" is, sadly, not too far wrong. Getting away from the Hyperion and the continuing plots was great! Too bad it showed off how tired I've gotten of the Hyperion and the soap opera plots... I saw most of the twists in the Gwen/Gunn plot coming from miles off. It was obvious Gwen wasn't telling the truth, I guessed fairly easily that the girl was the businessman's daughter... It was all fun and well-paced, but nothing really surprising happened. OVERALL An enjoyable episode. The Gunn/Gwen plot provided some nice relief from an arc that's been perhaps a bit TOO dominant this season; we got away from The Hyperion for a change and had some fun; and there was some good arc development in the background to lead into the next episode. A bit lightweight, but possibly all the better for that.