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2003-05-21 19:27:09-07:00 - Re: Finale Was Disappointing - Spoiler Free Comments - (salmoneous@aol.com)


> I can't think > of a single good or stand out episode from S7. Storyteller! And while everyone has their own opinions, I find it difficult to understand those who loved S1-3 and claim to really dislike Chosen. Chosen works great as a S1-3 episode.

2003-05-21 19:27:09-07:00 - Re: Finale Was Disappointing - Spoiler Free Comments - (salmoneous@aol.com)


> I can't think > of a single good or stand out episode from S7. Storyteller! And while everyone has their own opinions, I find it difficult to understand those who loved S1-3 and claim to really dislike Chosen. Chosen works great as a S1-3 episode.

2003-05-21 20:43:08-04:00 - Re: Finale Was Disappointing - Spoiler Free Comments - (Kent)


> For me the true Series finale is going > to have to be "The Gift," and I'll try and pretend the last two seasons of > Buffy never happened. Yes, that would have been an excellent, if somewhat bittersweet, end to the series. It would have made perfect "sense" in the logic of the show. The last two years have been a pile of .... , well you know. The thing that gets me is they talked about the "big bad" all season and when it finally came down to it all they encountered was fairly small and wimpy. Glory was bigger and badder than ANYTHING we saw this season. And her story built from week to week, increasing the drama and the psychological tension, whereas this season that didn't really seem to be the case. It just wandered around and didn't really move forward. The potential was there, but it just never happened. (Likewise the "potentials" never should have happened. For one, they were worthless dramatically, and for two, it made no sense based on the whole premise of the show for six years. When was Buffy ever a "potential"?) > > This season has been so bad, that when it came time > to watch the finale, I couldn't even gen up the > excitement or care to watch it, right away. Same here, I got home 15 minutes into it but I didn't get the feeling it would make much difference, at this point. > Buffy did none of this, they just plodded along all season, > the Scooby Dynamic was totally lost in S6, and it got worse in S7 never to > have return. They had the nice "return to hellmouth" moment towards the > end, but it seemed so pathetically forced, the way they killed off Anya > should have had some sort of emotional impact, but they treated her as if > she was one of the annoying SITs, They certainly didn't seem to give Anya much afterthought at the end there. Joking about the mall really didn't work at that point, I didn't think. It wasn't sufficiently cynical to qualify as black humor and it was too light to be appropriate for the moment. Also, speaking of pathetically forced, I thought the whole scene with Buffy and Angel at the beginning fell into that category. David Boreanaz (who, under normal circumstances, I have no problem with at all) seemed to be smirking his way through the scene and in both their cases there seemed to be a total lack of true emotion that the characters would be feeling. Instead of watching Buffy talking to Angel, all I could see was Sarah Michelle Gellar reading lines that didn't "click", and David Boreanaz returning the favor. I couldn't sense any real connection between them. I think Joss had lost it really. He was running on empty. Andrew was the only thing this season that was fresh and interesting. Principal Wood turned out to be a wasted character. He never went anywhere. The potentials were a waste. Giles turned into a nothing. Willow just whined all season. Buffy moped around the whole time. Out of the blue, Dawn suddenly turned into an expert on ancient languages at the age of 15, or whatever. They should have gone ahead and made her the slayer like they teased with in whatever episode that was where they discovered she wasn't. That would have had some resonance. I loved the part where she TASERed Xander. I think she's a good enough actress where she could have handled much of the burden taken on by the hordes of faceless potentials. There would have been more to show for that at the end of the season. Anyway, although it didn't suck, the ending certainly didn't shine. It's just sort of there.

2003-05-21 20:43:08-04:00 - Re: Finale Was Disappointing - Spoiler Free Comments - (Kent)


> For me the true Series finale is going > to have to be "The Gift," and I'll try and pretend the last two seasons of > Buffy never happened. Yes, that would have been an excellent, if somewhat bittersweet, end to the series. It would have made perfect "sense" in the logic of the show. The last two years have been a pile of .... , well you know. The thing that gets me is they talked about the "big bad" all season and when it finally came down to it all they encountered was fairly small and wimpy. Glory was bigger and badder than ANYTHING we saw this season. And her story built from week to week, increasing the drama and the psychological tension, whereas this season that didn't really seem to be the case. It just wandered around and didn't really move forward. The potential was there, but it just never happened. (Likewise the "potentials" never should have happened. For one, they were worthless dramatically, and for two, it made no sense based on the whole premise of the show for six years. When was Buffy ever a "potential"?) > > This season has been so bad, that when it came time > to watch the finale, I couldn't even gen up the > excitement or care to watch it, right away. Same here, I got home 15 minutes into it but I didn't get the feeling it would make much difference, at this point. > Buffy did none of this, they just plodded along all season, > the Scooby Dynamic was totally lost in S6, and it got worse in S7 never to > have return. They had the nice "return to hellmouth" moment towards the > end, but it seemed so pathetically forced, the way they killed off Anya > should have had some sort of emotional impact, but they treated her as if > she was one of the annoying SITs, They certainly didn't seem to give Anya much afterthought at the end there. Joking about the mall really didn't work at that point, I didn't think. It wasn't sufficiently cynical to qualify as black humor and it was too light to be appropriate for the moment. Also, speaking of pathetically forced, I thought the whole scene with Buffy and Angel at the beginning fell into that category. David Boreanaz (who, under normal circumstances, I have no problem with at all) seemed to be smirking his way through the scene and in both their cases there seemed to be a total lack of true emotion that the characters would be feeling. Instead of watching Buffy talking to Angel, all I could see was Sarah Michelle Gellar reading lines that didn't "click", and David Boreanaz returning the favor. I couldn't sense any real connection between them. I think Joss had lost it really. He was running on empty. Andrew was the only thing this season that was fresh and interesting. Principal Wood turned out to be a wasted character. He never went anywhere. The potentials were a waste. Giles turned into a nothing. Willow just whined all season. Buffy moped around the whole time. Out of the blue, Dawn suddenly turned into an expert on ancient languages at the age of 15, or whatever. They should have gone ahead and made her the slayer like they teased with in whatever episode that was where they discovered she wasn't. That would have had some resonance. I loved the part where she TASERed Xander. I think she's a good enough actress where she could have handled much of the burden taken on by the hordes of faceless potentials. There would have been more to show for that at the end of the season. Anyway, although it didn't suck, the ending certainly didn't shine. It's just sort of there.

2003-05-21 22:01:35+00:00 - Finale Was Disappointing - Spoiler Free Comments - (m122 <nomail@eclipsemagazine.com>)


I don't know what I think about last night's finale. I still need to digest everything, I'm leaning towards I was disappointed in it. But not really because the last two seasons really destroyed the characters and the dynamics that I loved on that show. For me the true Series finale is going to have to be "The Gift," and I'll try and pretend the last two seasons of Buffy never happened. It's how I felt about The X-Files, where really that show ended in S6 with the excellent two part One Father/Two Sons storyline which explained the conspiracy and wrapped everything up very nicely. Then it continued as a walking corpse for another 2 1/2 seasons. That's what the last two years of Buffy has been like, and what last night's finale felt like, a walking corpse, grasping for a semblance of it's old glory - and that was only the last 15 minutes. The first 40 minutes really sucked, I'm just trying to decide if the last 15 minutes saved it for me. This season has been so bad, that when it came time to watch the finale, I couldn't even gen up the excitement or care to watch it, right away. For me Buffy should have did what Roswell did, when they found out that they were going to be cancelled they totally revamped the show during the mid season and returned the show back to it's roots. They utilized what few episodes they had left to make a statement, and took 4 episodes to wrap up a lot of loose ends, so that they could go into the series finale with a "clean slate." Buffy did none of this, they just plodded along all season, the Scooby Dynamic was totally lost in S6, and it got worse in S7 never to have return. They had the nice "return to hellmouth" moment towards the end, but it seemed so pathetically forced, the way they killed off Anya should have had some sort of emotional impact, but they treated her as if she was one of the annoying SITs, after 7 years they finally go into the Hell Mouth, and I was like, huh? That's it? It's nothing more than a den of vampires? I wish they had some throwaway line where giles said "this is but the first level." The idea of 1,000s of slayers running around sucks as well. And I've never liked the idea of super Willow, and I liked it even less in the Chosen. I would give it 2 1/5 stars, primarily because I look back at S1 - S3 fondly, and S4 - 5 had flashes of brilliance, and S6 for Once More With Feeling. I can't think of a single good or stand out episode from S7.

2003-05-21 22:01:35+00:00 - Finale Was Disappointing - Spoiler Free Comments - (m122 <nomail@eclipsemagazine.com>)


I don't know what I think about last night's finale. I still need to digest everything, I'm leaning towards I was disappointed in it. But not really because the last two seasons really destroyed the characters and the dynamics that I loved on that show. For me the true Series finale is going to have to be "The Gift," and I'll try and pretend the last two seasons of Buffy never happened. It's how I felt about The X-Files, where really that show ended in S6 with the excellent two part One Father/Two Sons storyline which explained the conspiracy and wrapped everything up very nicely. Then it continued as a walking corpse for another 2 1/2 seasons. That's what the last two years of Buffy has been like, and what last night's finale felt like, a walking corpse, grasping for a semblance of it's old glory - and that was only the last 15 minutes. The first 40 minutes really sucked, I'm just trying to decide if the last 15 minutes saved it for me. This season has been so bad, that when it came time to watch the finale, I couldn't even gen up the excitement or care to watch it, right away. For me Buffy should have did what Roswell did, when they found out that they were going to be cancelled they totally revamped the show during the mid season and returned the show back to it's roots. They utilized what few episodes they had left to make a statement, and took 4 episodes to wrap up a lot of loose ends, so that they could go into the series finale with a "clean slate." Buffy did none of this, they just plodded along all season, the Scooby Dynamic was totally lost in S6, and it got worse in S7 never to have return. They had the nice "return to hellmouth" moment towards the end, but it seemed so pathetically forced, the way they killed off Anya should have had some sort of emotional impact, but they treated her as if she was one of the annoying SITs, after 7 years they finally go into the Hell Mouth, and I was like, huh? That's it? It's nothing more than a den of vampires? I wish they had some throwaway line where giles said "this is but the first level." The idea of 1,000s of slayers running around sucks as well. And I've never liked the idea of super Willow, and I liked it even less in the Chosen. I would give it 2 1/5 stars, primarily because I look back at S1 - S3 fondly, and S4 - 5 had flashes of brilliance, and S6 for Once More With Feeling. I can't think of a single good or stand out episode from S7.

2003-05-22 01:35:15+00:00 - Re: Finale Was Disappointing - Spoiler Free Comments - (m122 <nomail@eclipsemagazine.com>)


"Kent" <kent@> wrote in message news:bah7il$23s$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net... > > For me the true Series finale is going > > to have to be "The Gift," and I'll try and pretend the last two seasons of > > Buffy never happened. > > Yes, that would have been an excellent, if somewhat bittersweet, end to the > series. It would have made perfect "sense" in the logic of the show. The > last two years have been a pile of .... , well you know. The thing that > gets me is they talked about the "big bad" all season and when it finally > came down to it all they encountered was fairly small and wimpy. Glory was > bigger and badder than ANYTHING we saw this season. And her story built > from week to week, increasing the drama and the psychological tension, > whereas this season that didn't really seem to be the case. It just > wandered around and didn't really move forward. The potential was there, > but it just never happened. (Likewise the "potentials" never should have > happened. For one, they were worthless dramatically, and for two, it made > no sense based on the whole premise of the show for six years. When was > Buffy ever a "potential"?) > > > > > > This season has been so bad, that when it came time > > to watch the finale, I couldn't even gen up the > > excitement or care to watch it, right away. > > Same here, I got home 15 minutes into it but I didn't get the feeling it > would make much difference, at this point. > > > Buffy did none of this, they just plodded along all season, > > the Scooby Dynamic was totally lost in S6, and it got worse in S7 never to > > have return. They had the nice "return to hellmouth" moment towards the > > end, but it seemed so pathetically forced, the way they killed off Anya > > should have had some sort of emotional impact, but they treated her as if > > she was one of the annoying SITs, > > They certainly didn't seem to give Anya much afterthought at the end there. > Joking about the mall really didn't work at that point, I didn't think. It > wasn't sufficiently cynical to qualify as black humor and it was too light > to be appropriate for the moment. > > Also, speaking of pathetically forced, I thought the whole scene with Buffy > and Angel at the beginning fell into that category. David Boreanaz (who, > under normal circumstances, I have no problem with at all) seemed to be > smirking his way through the scene and in both their cases there seemed to > be a total lack of true emotion that the characters would be feeling. > Instead of watching Buffy talking to Angel, all I could see was Sarah > Michelle Gellar reading lines that didn't "click", and David Boreanaz > returning the favor. I couldn't sense any real connection between them. I > think Joss had lost it really. He was running on empty. > > Andrew was the only thing this season that was fresh and interesting. > > Principal Wood turned out to be a wasted character. He never went anywhere. > The potentials were a waste. Giles turned into a nothing. Willow just > whined all season. Buffy moped around the whole time. Out of the blue, > Dawn suddenly turned into an expert on ancient languages at the age of 15, > or whatever. They should have gone ahead and made her the slayer like they > teased with in whatever episode that was where they discovered she wasn't. > That would have had some resonance. I loved the part where she TASERed > Xander. I think she's a good enough actress where she could have handled > much of the burden taken on by the hordes of faceless potentials. There > would have been more to show for that at the end of the season. > > Anyway, although it didn't suck, the ending certainly didn't shine. It's > just sort of there. > > You summed up my feelings exactly. It didn't suck, it was just there. The other part that I really didn't like and thought felt forced was the whole D & D stuff as well. I didn't care much for Andrew because all of his lines just seemed so forced, like the writers were like, ok it's time for a pop cultural reference moment, and then Andrew would spout something.

2003-05-22 01:35:15+00:00 - Re: Finale Was Disappointing - Spoiler Free Comments - (m122 <nomail@eclipsemagazine.com>)


"Kent" <kent@> wrote in message news:bah7il$23s$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net... > > For me the true Series finale is going > > to have to be "The Gift," and I'll try and pretend the last two seasons of > > Buffy never happened. > > Yes, that would have been an excellent, if somewhat bittersweet, end to the > series. It would have made perfect "sense" in the logic of the show. The > last two years have been a pile of .... , well you know. The thing that > gets me is they talked about the "big bad" all season and when it finally > came down to it all they encountered was fairly small and wimpy. Glory was > bigger and badder than ANYTHING we saw this season. And her story built > from week to week, increasing the drama and the psychological tension, > whereas this season that didn't really seem to be the case. It just > wandered around and didn't really move forward. The potential was there, > but it just never happened. (Likewise the "potentials" never should have > happened. For one, they were worthless dramatically, and for two, it made > no sense based on the whole premise of the show for six years. When was > Buffy ever a "potential"?) > > > > > > This season has been so bad, that when it came time > > to watch the finale, I couldn't even gen up the > > excitement or care to watch it, right away. > > Same here, I got home 15 minutes into it but I didn't get the feeling it > would make much difference, at this point. > > > Buffy did none of this, they just plodded along all season, > > the Scooby Dynamic was totally lost in S6, and it got worse in S7 never to > > have return. They had the nice "return to hellmouth" moment towards the > > end, but it seemed so pathetically forced, the way they killed off Anya > > should have had some sort of emotional impact, but they treated her as if > > she was one of the annoying SITs, > > They certainly didn't seem to give Anya much afterthought at the end there. > Joking about the mall really didn't work at that point, I didn't think. It > wasn't sufficiently cynical to qualify as black humor and it was too light > to be appropriate for the moment. > > Also, speaking of pathetically forced, I thought the whole scene with Buffy > and Angel at the beginning fell into that category. David Boreanaz (who, > under normal circumstances, I have no problem with at all) seemed to be > smirking his way through the scene and in both their cases there seemed to > be a total lack of true emotion that the characters would be feeling. > Instead of watching Buffy talking to Angel, all I could see was Sarah > Michelle Gellar reading lines that didn't "click", and David Boreanaz > returning the favor. I couldn't sense any real connection between them. I > think Joss had lost it really. He was running on empty. > > Andrew was the only thing this season that was fresh and interesting. > > Principal Wood turned out to be a wasted character. He never went anywhere. > The potentials were a waste. Giles turned into a nothing. Willow just > whined all season. Buffy moped around the whole time. Out of the blue, > Dawn suddenly turned into an expert on ancient languages at the age of 15, > or whatever. They should have gone ahead and made her the slayer like they > teased with in whatever episode that was where they discovered she wasn't. > That would have had some resonance. I loved the part where she TASERed > Xander. I think she's a good enough actress where she could have handled > much of the burden taken on by the hordes of faceless potentials. There > would have been more to show for that at the end of the season. > > Anyway, although it didn't suck, the ending certainly didn't shine. It's > just sort of there. > > You summed up my feelings exactly. It didn't suck, it was just there. The other part that I really didn't like and thought felt forced was the whole D & D stuff as well. I didn't care much for Andrew because all of his lines just seemed so forced, like the writers were like, ok it's time for a pop cultural reference moment, and then Andrew would spout something.

2003-05-22 09:53:39+00:00 - Re: Finale Was Disappointing - Spoiler Free Comments - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


"m122" <nomail@eclipsemagazine.com> wrote in news:3HSya.55513$Ur1.34714@nwrddc03.gnilink.net: > I can't think of a single good or stand out episode from S7. off the top of my head - "Conversations with Dead People" "Selfless" "Lies My Parents Told Me" "Him" "Beneath You" (the later two for the humor) Those were my favorites, and there were others which were good. There were certainly some which were not as good, but overall I'd rate Season 7 as one of the above average seasons and "Chosen" as one of the above average season finales. My only regrets are we didn't see more episodes with the credits "Written and directed by Joss Whedon" and "Chosen" didn't end up with a slate saying "Just kidding, we'll be back in September and even better." Philip Chien (who was quite happy with "Chosen" even with the various plot holes and weak bits.)

2003-05-22 09:53:39+00:00 - Re: Finale Was Disappointing - Spoiler Free Comments - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


"m122" <nomail@eclipsemagazine.com> wrote in news:3HSya.55513$Ur1.34714@nwrddc03.gnilink.net: > I can't think of a single good or stand out episode from S7. off the top of my head - "Conversations with Dead People" "Selfless" "Lies My Parents Told Me" "Him" "Beneath You" (the later two for the humor) Those were my favorites, and there were others which were good. There were certainly some which were not as good, but overall I'd rate Season 7 as one of the above average seasons and "Chosen" as one of the above average season finales. My only regrets are we didn't see more episodes with the credits "Written and directed by Joss Whedon" and "Chosen" didn't end up with a slate saying "Just kidding, we'll be back in September and even better." Philip Chien (who was quite happy with "Chosen" even with the various plot holes and weak bits.)