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2003-02-12 02:00:07-06:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Barb <noway@yahoo.com>)


"Bill Bickel" <billbick@optonline.com> wrote in message news:0Um2a.276343$HG.46153680@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net... > A > B > S > O > L > U > T > E > L > Y > > T > H > E > > B > E > S > T > > E > P > I > S > O > D > E > > O > F > > T > H > E > > S > E > A > S > O > N > > B > U > T > > I really didn't like the First handing Wood the information about Spike and > his mother. > > If Wood was raised by his mother's Watcher, he must have learned all about > Spike, the vampire who killed her. This was hardly a secret in the > vampire/CoW worlds, and Spike probably boasted about it at every > opportunity. How much more dramatic would it have been if Woods had realized > who Spike was right in the middle of the battle with Xander's new > girlfriend? > > Bill Bickel > http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com > http://www.missing-kids.us > > > Did you notice that Wood really checked out the rear-view mirror in the vehicle?? I want to know why he didn't say something...I mean, Spike was sitting right in the middle of the back seat...there's no way Wood didn't notice the lack of reflection...why did he seem so shocked when Spike vamped out fighting the demon chick?? Are there other demons or whatever that don't cast a reflection...I thought it was just a vamp thing. Barb-- A good friend will come bail you out of jail, but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn we fucked up!!!!."

2003-02-12 02:00:07-06:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Barb <noway@yahoo.com>)


"Bill Bickel" <billbick@optonline.com> wrote in message news:0Um2a.276343$HG.46153680@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net... > A > B > S > O > L > U > T > E > L > Y > > T > H > E > > B > E > S > T > > E > P > I > S > O > D > E > > O > F > > T > H > E > > S > E > A > S > O > N > > B > U > T > > I really didn't like the First handing Wood the information about Spike and > his mother. > > If Wood was raised by his mother's Watcher, he must have learned all about > Spike, the vampire who killed her. This was hardly a secret in the > vampire/CoW worlds, and Spike probably boasted about it at every > opportunity. How much more dramatic would it have been if Woods had realized > who Spike was right in the middle of the battle with Xander's new > girlfriend? > > Bill Bickel > http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com > http://www.missing-kids.us > > > Did you notice that Wood really checked out the rear-view mirror in the vehicle?? I want to know why he didn't say something...I mean, Spike was sitting right in the middle of the back seat...there's no way Wood didn't notice the lack of reflection...why did he seem so shocked when Spike vamped out fighting the demon chick?? Are there other demons or whatever that don't cast a reflection...I thought it was just a vamp thing. Barb-- A good friend will come bail you out of jail, but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn we fucked up!!!!."

2003-02-12 07:40:44+00:00 - My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com>)


A B S O L U T E L Y T H E B E S T E P I S O D E O F T H E S E A S O N B U T I really didn't like the First handing Wood the information about Spike and his mother. If Wood was raised by his mother's Watcher, he must have learned all about Spike, the vampire who killed her. This was hardly a secret in the vampire/CoW worlds, and Spike probably boasted about it at every opportunity. How much more dramatic would it have been if Woods had realized who Spike was right in the middle of the battle with Xander's new girlfriend? Bill Bickel http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com http://www.missing-kids.us

2003-02-12 07:40:44+00:00 - My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com>)


A B S O L U T E L Y T H E B E S T E P I S O D E O F T H E S E A S O N B U T I really didn't like the First handing Wood the information about Spike and his mother. If Wood was raised by his mother's Watcher, he must have learned all about Spike, the vampire who killed her. This was hardly a secret in the vampire/CoW worlds, and Spike probably boasted about it at every opportunity. How much more dramatic would it have been if Woods had realized who Spike was right in the middle of the battle with Xander's new girlfriend? Bill Bickel http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com http://www.missing-kids.us

2003-02-12 09:47:45-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <0Um2a.276343$HG.46153680@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > A > B > S > O > L > U > T > E > L > Y > > T > H > E > > B > E > S > T > > E > P > I > S > O > D > E > > O > F > > T > H > E > > S > E > A > S > O > N > > B > U > T > > I really didn't like the First handing Wood the information about Spike and > his mother. > > If Wood was raised by his mother's Watcher, he must have learned all about > Spike, the vampire who killed her. This was hardly a secret in the > vampire/CoW worlds, Wood was four when his mother was killed. Her watcher probably didn't tell him much of the details then, and we don't know how long Wood stayed in his/her care. The Watcher may have also deliberately withheld the information from Wood, knowing that his chances of surviving an attack on Spike were basically nil. > and Spike probably boasted about it at every > opportunity. There is no indication that Spike even knew her name. He's probably told the story of how he killed the Slayer on the subway a few times, but there are probably dozens of vamps claiming every Slayer kill. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-02-12 09:47:45-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <0Um2a.276343$HG.46153680@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > A > B > S > O > L > U > T > E > L > Y > > T > H > E > > B > E > S > T > > E > P > I > S > O > D > E > > O > F > > T > H > E > > S > E > A > S > O > N > > B > U > T > > I really didn't like the First handing Wood the information about Spike and > his mother. > > If Wood was raised by his mother's Watcher, he must have learned all about > Spike, the vampire who killed her. This was hardly a secret in the > vampire/CoW worlds, Wood was four when his mother was killed. Her watcher probably didn't tell him much of the details then, and we don't know how long Wood stayed in his/her care. The Watcher may have also deliberately withheld the information from Wood, knowing that his chances of surviving an attack on Spike were basically nil. > and Spike probably boasted about it at every > opportunity. There is no indication that Spike even knew her name. He's probably told the story of how he killed the Slayer on the subway a few times, but there are probably dozens of vamps claiming every Slayer kill. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-02-12 11:28:22-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <pgu2a.291495$HG.47360744@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > "Don Sample" <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > news:120220030947457630%dsample@synapse.net... > > In article <0Um2a.276343$HG.46153680@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Bill > > Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > > > > > A > > > B > > > S > > > O > > > L > > > U > > > T > > > E > > > L > > > Y > > > > > > T > > > H > > > E > > > > > > B > > > E > > > S > > > T > > > > > > E > > > P > > > I > > > S > > > O > > > D > > > E > > > > > > O > > > F > > > > > > T > > > H > > > E > > > > > > S > > > E > > > A > > > S > > > O > > > N > > > > > > B > > > U > > > T > > > > > > > There is no indication that Spike even knew her name. He's probably > > told the story of how he killed the Slayer on the subway a few times, > > but there are probably dozens of vamps claiming every Slayer kill. > > There was only one Slayer, and only one Spike: Both would have been > well-known to the other. Spike knew who he killed, and his souvenir backed > up his claim if anybody disbelieved him. But would Spike know her *name*? To the vamps and other demons she's just "the Slayer." And there could be dozen vamps all carrying "momentos" to back up their claim. "See! I got her left shoe!" "These are her panties!" Who's to say that the shoe or panties really did or didn't come from the Slayer? -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-02-12 11:28:22-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <pgu2a.291495$HG.47360744@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > "Don Sample" <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > news:120220030947457630%dsample@synapse.net... > > In article <0Um2a.276343$HG.46153680@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Bill > > Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > > > > > A > > > B > > > S > > > O > > > L > > > U > > > T > > > E > > > L > > > Y > > > > > > T > > > H > > > E > > > > > > B > > > E > > > S > > > T > > > > > > E > > > P > > > I > > > S > > > O > > > D > > > E > > > > > > O > > > F > > > > > > T > > > H > > > E > > > > > > S > > > E > > > A > > > S > > > O > > > N > > > > > > B > > > U > > > T > > > > > > > There is no indication that Spike even knew her name. He's probably > > told the story of how he killed the Slayer on the subway a few times, > > but there are probably dozens of vamps claiming every Slayer kill. > > There was only one Slayer, and only one Spike: Both would have been > well-known to the other. Spike knew who he killed, and his souvenir backed > up his claim if anybody disbelieved him. But would Spike know her *name*? To the vamps and other demons she's just "the Slayer." And there could be dozen vamps all carrying "momentos" to back up their claim. "See! I got her left shoe!" "These are her panties!" Who's to say that the shoe or panties really did or didn't come from the Slayer? -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-02-12 12:13:59-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:47:45 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > >There is no indication that Spike even knew her name. He's probably >told the story of how he killed the Slayer on the subway a few times, >but there are probably dozens of vamps claiming every Slayer kill. A show's continuity automatically becomes harder and harder to maintain as it goes on. That seems pretty obvious to me. Spike may not have known her name but Giles (researching from his books) knew Spike had killed two slayers. How did he know that if it wasn't documented somewhere? You can say he was wrong or make up fanwanks to excuse it but that's what we were led to believe at the time. If Giles knew it then it stands to reason the council and other watchers would know it too. Small contradictions like this from earlier seasons don't bother me so much because I understand it's going to get harder and harder to keep the mythology straight as time goes on. I'm more concerned with big plot holes within a seasonal arc. I call this one a nitpick but that just goes to show that one person's nitpick is another person's major plot hole and vice versa. I'm more bothered by the plot development that Wood suddenly switches gears in believing the FE about this when he knows it lies and manipulates everything. That and the FE's explanation earlier as to why it didn't use Spike by saying it wasn't his time yet. Then seemingly sick Wood on him at the end. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-02-12 12:13:59-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:47:45 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > >There is no indication that Spike even knew her name. He's probably >told the story of how he killed the Slayer on the subway a few times, >but there are probably dozens of vamps claiming every Slayer kill. A show's continuity automatically becomes harder and harder to maintain as it goes on. That seems pretty obvious to me. Spike may not have known her name but Giles (researching from his books) knew Spike had killed two slayers. How did he know that if it wasn't documented somewhere? You can say he was wrong or make up fanwanks to excuse it but that's what we were led to believe at the time. If Giles knew it then it stands to reason the council and other watchers would know it too. Small contradictions like this from earlier seasons don't bother me so much because I understand it's going to get harder and harder to keep the mythology straight as time goes on. I'm more concerned with big plot holes within a seasonal arc. I call this one a nitpick but that just goes to show that one person's nitpick is another person's major plot hole and vice versa. I'm more bothered by the plot development that Wood suddenly switches gears in believing the FE about this when he knows it lies and manipulates everything. That and the FE's explanation earlier as to why it didn't use Spike by saying it wasn't his time yet. Then seemingly sick Wood on him at the end. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-02-12 14:26:00-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:09:58 +0000, Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:47:45 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > >>> >>>There is no indication that Spike even knew her name. He's probably >>>told the story of how he killed the Slayer on the subway a few times, >>>but there are probably dozens of vamps claiming every Slayer kill. > >> A show's continuity automatically becomes harder and harder to maintain as >> it goes on. That seems pretty obvious to me. > >> Spike may not have known her name but Giles (researching from his books) >> knew Spike had killed two slayers. How did he know that if it wasn't >> documented somewhere? You can say he was wrong or make up fanwanks to > >But would it be documented that she had a 4 year old son? > >> excuse it but that's what we were led to believe at the time. If Giles knew >> it then it stands to reason the council and other watchers would know it >> too. > >The rest of them are dead. No-one's asked Giles questions about >slayers with children. I thought the question was about Wood being brought up by a watcher yet not being aware that it was Spike who killed his mother. Since Spike appears to have quite the reputation among vampires and there were these documented references available to the watchers, it's difficult to buy that premise that Wood wouldn't be aware of him. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-02-12 14:26:00-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:09:58 +0000, Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:47:45 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > >>> >>>There is no indication that Spike even knew her name. He's probably >>>told the story of how he killed the Slayer on the subway a few times, >>>but there are probably dozens of vamps claiming every Slayer kill. > >> A show's continuity automatically becomes harder and harder to maintain as >> it goes on. That seems pretty obvious to me. > >> Spike may not have known her name but Giles (researching from his books) >> knew Spike had killed two slayers. How did he know that if it wasn't >> documented somewhere? You can say he was wrong or make up fanwanks to > >But would it be documented that she had a 4 year old son? > >> excuse it but that's what we were led to believe at the time. If Giles knew >> it then it stands to reason the council and other watchers would know it >> too. > >The rest of them are dead. No-one's asked Giles questions about >slayers with children. I thought the question was about Wood being brought up by a watcher yet not being aware that it was Spike who killed his mother. Since Spike appears to have quite the reputation among vampires and there were these documented references available to the watchers, it's difficult to buy that premise that Wood wouldn't be aware of him. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-02-12 16:04:37+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com>)


"Don Sample" <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message news:120220030947457630%dsample@synapse.net... > In article <0Um2a.276343$HG.46153680@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Bill > Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > > > A > > B > > S > > O > > L > > U > > T > > E > > L > > Y > > > > T > > H > > E > > > > B > > E > > S > > T > > > > E > > P > > I > > S > > O > > D > > E > > > > O > > F > > > > T > > H > > E > > > > S > > E > > A > > S > > O > > N > > > > B > > U > > T > > > > There is no indication that Spike even knew her name. He's probably > told the story of how he killed the Slayer on the subway a few times, > but there are probably dozens of vamps claiming every Slayer kill. There was only one Slayer, and only one Spike: Both would have been well-known to the other. Spike knew who he killed, and his souvenir backed up his claim if anybody disbelieved him. Bill Bickel http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com http://www.missing-kids.us

2003-02-12 16:04:37+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com>)


"Don Sample" <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message news:120220030947457630%dsample@synapse.net... > In article <0Um2a.276343$HG.46153680@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>, Bill > Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > > > A > > B > > S > > O > > L > > U > > T > > E > > L > > Y > > > > T > > H > > E > > > > B > > E > > S > > T > > > > E > > P > > I > > S > > O > > D > > E > > > > O > > F > > > > T > > H > > E > > > > S > > E > > A > > S > > O > > N > > > > B > > U > > T > > > > There is no indication that Spike even knew her name. He's probably > told the story of how he killed the Slayer on the subway a few times, > but there are probably dozens of vamps claiming every Slayer kill. There was only one Slayer, and only one Spike: Both would have been well-known to the other. Spike knew who he killed, and his souvenir backed up his claim if anybody disbelieved him. Bill Bickel http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com http://www.missing-kids.us

2003-02-12 16:31:12-08:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (lil T <upsidedownpizza@excite.com>)


On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:40:44 GMT, "Bill Bickel" <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: >A >B >S >O >L >U >T >E >L >Y > >T >H >E > >B >E >S >T > >E >P >I >S >O >D >E > >O >F > >T >H >E > >S >E >A >S >O >N > >B >U >T > >I really didn't like the First handing Wood the information about Spike and >his mother. > >If Wood was raised by his mother's Watcher, he must have learned all about >Spike, the vampire who killed her. This was hardly a secret in the >vampire/CoW worlds, and Spike probably boasted about it at every >opportunity. How much more dramatic would it have been if Woods had realized >who Spike was right in the middle of the battle with Xander's new >girlfriend? > >Bill Bickel >http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com >http://www.missing-kids.us > > If I tell you that your mother was killed by a man named Bill 25 years ago. And then you meet a man named Bill tomorow you would be sure it was the same Bill. Right? Vampires don't have copyrights on their names. Nor do they use last names. Now if Buffy had introduced her pal as "William the bloody" then he might have been tiped off.

2003-02-12 16:31:12-08:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (lil T <upsidedownpizza@excite.com>)


On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:40:44 GMT, "Bill Bickel" <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: >A >B >S >O >L >U >T >E >L >Y > >T >H >E > >B >E >S >T > >E >P >I >S >O >D >E > >O >F > >T >H >E > >S >E >A >S >O >N > >B >U >T > >I really didn't like the First handing Wood the information about Spike and >his mother. > >If Wood was raised by his mother's Watcher, he must have learned all about >Spike, the vampire who killed her. This was hardly a secret in the >vampire/CoW worlds, and Spike probably boasted about it at every >opportunity. How much more dramatic would it have been if Woods had realized >who Spike was right in the middle of the battle with Xander's new >girlfriend? > >Bill Bickel >http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com >http://www.missing-kids.us > > If I tell you that your mother was killed by a man named Bill 25 years ago. And then you meet a man named Bill tomorow you would be sure it was the same Bill. Right? Vampires don't have copyrights on their names. Nor do they use last names. Now if Buffy had introduced her pal as "William the bloody" then he might have been tiped off.

2003-02-12 17:54:12-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@mauve-new.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: >In article <hkpl4v4mkdlloqcplnd217f7o7ksp4aer1@4ax.com>, >lil T <upsidedownpizza@excite.com> wrote: >>If I tell you that your mother was killed by a man named Bill 25 years >>ago. And then you meet a man named Bill tomorow you would be sure it >>was the same Bill. Right? > >I might if she was killed by a guy named Bill who was an oil well designer, >and the guy I met today was also an oil well designer. The First doesn't just say the name Spike anyway. It outright tells Wood that he fought along side the one responsible today. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-02-12 17:54:12-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@mauve-new.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: >In article <hkpl4v4mkdlloqcplnd217f7o7ksp4aer1@4ax.com>, >lil T <upsidedownpizza@excite.com> wrote: >>If I tell you that your mother was killed by a man named Bill 25 years >>ago. And then you meet a man named Bill tomorow you would be sure it >>was the same Bill. Right? > >I might if she was killed by a guy named Bill who was an oil well designer, >and the guy I met today was also an oil well designer. The First doesn't just say the name Spike anyway. It outright tells Wood that he fought along side the one responsible today. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-02-12 18:22:05+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Leo <luclin-spam-minus-999@yahoo.com>)


"> I'm more bothered by the plot development that Wood suddenly switches gears > in believing the FE about this when he knows it lies and manipulates > everything. That and the FE's explanation earlier as to why it didn't use > Spike by saying it wasn't his time yet. Then seemingly sick Wood on him at > the end. > The First may to have some ability to manipulate the emotions of those it is targeting beyond just the verbal fencing. Why send Wood after Spike? Simple one will likely kill the other leaving one less opponent plus if Spike kills Wood then Buffy would be likely to kill Spike. At least that looks like what the First is thinking. It's not like the "Original Evil" actually has a whole lot on the ball, I mean Andrew was able to pull the wool over its eyes (even if only for a few minutes) so frankly as far as Big Bads go this one seems a bit dumber at times than Glory.

2003-02-12 18:22:05+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Leo <luclin-spam-minus-999@yahoo.com>)


"> I'm more bothered by the plot development that Wood suddenly switches gears > in believing the FE about this when he knows it lies and manipulates > everything. That and the FE's explanation earlier as to why it didn't use > Spike by saying it wasn't his time yet. Then seemingly sick Wood on him at > the end. > The First may to have some ability to manipulate the emotions of those it is targeting beyond just the verbal fencing. Why send Wood after Spike? Simple one will likely kill the other leaving one less opponent plus if Spike kills Wood then Buffy would be likely to kill Spike. At least that looks like what the First is thinking. It's not like the "Original Evil" actually has a whole lot on the ball, I mean Andrew was able to pull the wool over its eyes (even if only for a few minutes) so frankly as far as Big Bads go this one seems a bit dumber at times than Glory.

2003-02-12 18:38:19+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Cernunnos <Shaggyspike123@ns.sympatico.cam>)


"Leo" <luclin-spam-minus-999@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:hhw2a.142$Ep5.126661762@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... > > "> I'm more bothered by the plot development that Wood suddenly switches > gears > > in believing the FE about this when he knows it lies and manipulates > > everything. That and the FE's explanation earlier as to why it didn't use > > Spike by saying it wasn't his time yet. Then seemingly sick Wood on him > at > > the end. > > > > The First may to have some ability to manipulate the emotions of those it is > targeting beyond just the verbal fencing. Why send Wood after Spike? Simple > one will likely kill the other leaving one less opponent plus if Spike kills > Wood then Buffy would be likely to kill Spike. > > At least that looks like what the First is thinking. It's not like the > "Original Evil" actually has a whole lot on the ball, I mean Andrew was able > to pull the wool over its eyes (even if only for a few minutes) so frankly > as far as Big Bads go this one seems a bit dumber at times than Glory. Idunno, it seems whenever its in a certain form it takes on that individuals attributes... he was jonothan, os of course he didnt know that andrew was gonna betray him... he didnt get the first what five times?

2003-02-12 18:38:19+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Cernunnos <Shaggyspike123@ns.sympatico.cam>)


"Leo" <luclin-spam-minus-999@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:hhw2a.142$Ep5.126661762@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com... > > "> I'm more bothered by the plot development that Wood suddenly switches > gears > > in believing the FE about this when he knows it lies and manipulates > > everything. That and the FE's explanation earlier as to why it didn't use > > Spike by saying it wasn't his time yet. Then seemingly sick Wood on him > at > > the end. > > > > The First may to have some ability to manipulate the emotions of those it is > targeting beyond just the verbal fencing. Why send Wood after Spike? Simple > one will likely kill the other leaving one less opponent plus if Spike kills > Wood then Buffy would be likely to kill Spike. > > At least that looks like what the First is thinking. It's not like the > "Original Evil" actually has a whole lot on the ball, I mean Andrew was able > to pull the wool over its eyes (even if only for a few minutes) so frankly > as far as Big Bads go this one seems a bit dumber at times than Glory. Idunno, it seems whenever its in a certain form it takes on that individuals attributes... he was jonothan, os of course he didnt know that andrew was gonna betray him... he didnt get the first what five times?

2003-02-12 19:00:15+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, me@privacy.net wrote in article <dbvk4v0ahqb5psj0mprf8hdeg0kn9lt1o3@4ax.com>... > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:47:45 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > [snipped] > > I'm more bothered by the plot development that Wood suddenly switches gears > in believing the FE about this when he knows it lies and manipulates > everything. That and the FE's explanation earlier as to why it didn't use > Spike by saying it wasn't his time yet. Then seemingly sick Wood on him at > the end. > > I do not think Wood is switching sides, per se. We all know the old admonition that the devil will tell lies but use the truth to do so. My take is the Wood knows he is being manipulated. And I do not believe he is driven to vengeance as, for example, Holst was. He will act on the information and will try to terminate Spike if he believes him to be evil. At this point Wood does not have clue one as to what Spike is other than a vampire. He knows the mission of the Slayer so I would think his curiosity is more than piqued with the notion that the Slayer has allied herself with a vampire. Can you imagine what will go through his head when he learns about Angel? In any case, Wood has reason to believe he has found that which he has long sought: his mother's murderer. But I do not doubt that he will consider and reconsider the source of this revelation. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-02-12 19:00:15+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, me@privacy.net wrote in article <dbvk4v0ahqb5psj0mprf8hdeg0kn9lt1o3@4ax.com>... > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:47:45 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > [snipped] > > I'm more bothered by the plot development that Wood suddenly switches gears > in believing the FE about this when he knows it lies and manipulates > everything. That and the FE's explanation earlier as to why it didn't use > Spike by saying it wasn't his time yet. Then seemingly sick Wood on him at > the end. > > I do not think Wood is switching sides, per se. We all know the old admonition that the devil will tell lies but use the truth to do so. My take is the Wood knows he is being manipulated. And I do not believe he is driven to vengeance as, for example, Holst was. He will act on the information and will try to terminate Spike if he believes him to be evil. At this point Wood does not have clue one as to what Spike is other than a vampire. He knows the mission of the Slayer so I would think his curiosity is more than piqued with the notion that the Slayer has allied herself with a vampire. Can you imagine what will go through his head when he learns about Angel? In any case, Wood has reason to believe he has found that which he has long sought: his mother's murderer. But I do not doubt that he will consider and reconsider the source of this revelation. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-02-12 19:07:33+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk>)


Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > A > B > S > O > L > U > T > E > L > Y > T > H > E > B > E > S > T > E > P > I > S > O > D > E > O > F > T > H > E > S > E > A > S > O > N > B > U > T > If Wood was raised by his mother's Watcher, he must have learned all about > Spike, the vampire who killed her. This was hardly a secret in the > vampire/CoW worlds, and Spike probably boasted about it at every > opportunity. How much more dramatic would it have been if Woods had realized Boasting is not the same as giving exact details. If Spike had known that Wood existed he would have most likely wound up as a present for Drusilla.

2003-02-12 19:07:33+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk>)


Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > A > B > S > O > L > U > T > E > L > Y > T > H > E > B > E > S > T > E > P > I > S > O > D > E > O > F > T > H > E > S > E > A > S > O > N > B > U > T > If Wood was raised by his mother's Watcher, he must have learned all about > Spike, the vampire who killed her. This was hardly a secret in the > vampire/CoW worlds, and Spike probably boasted about it at every > opportunity. How much more dramatic would it have been if Woods had realized Boasting is not the same as giving exact details. If Spike had known that Wood existed he would have most likely wound up as a present for Drusilla.

2003-02-12 19:09:58+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk>)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:47:45 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >> >>There is no indication that Spike even knew her name. He's probably >>told the story of how he killed the Slayer on the subway a few times, >>but there are probably dozens of vamps claiming every Slayer kill. > A show's continuity automatically becomes harder and harder to maintain as > it goes on. That seems pretty obvious to me. > Spike may not have known her name but Giles (researching from his books) > knew Spike had killed two slayers. How did he know that if it wasn't > documented somewhere? You can say he was wrong or make up fanwanks to But would it be documented that she had a 4 year old son? > excuse it but that's what we were led to believe at the time. If Giles knew > it then it stands to reason the council and other watchers would know it > too. The rest of them are dead. No-one's asked Giles questions about slayers with children.

2003-02-12 19:09:58+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk>)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:47:45 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >> >>There is no indication that Spike even knew her name. He's probably >>told the story of how he killed the Slayer on the subway a few times, >>but there are probably dozens of vamps claiming every Slayer kill. > A show's continuity automatically becomes harder and harder to maintain as > it goes on. That seems pretty obvious to me. > Spike may not have known her name but Giles (researching from his books) > knew Spike had killed two slayers. How did he know that if it wasn't > documented somewhere? You can say he was wrong or make up fanwanks to But would it be documented that she had a 4 year old son? > excuse it but that's what we were led to believe at the time. If Giles knew > it then it stands to reason the council and other watchers would know it > too. The rest of them are dead. No-one's asked Giles questions about slayers with children.

2003-02-13 01:29:55+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Bill Reid <hormelfree@happyhealthy.net>)


Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message news:120220031128229847%dsample@synapse.net... > > And there could be dozen vamps all carrying "momentos" to back up their > claim. "See! I got her left shoe!" "These are her panties!" Who's to > say that the shoe or panties really did or didn't come from the Slayer? > Well, wouldn't Slayer shoes and panties be supernaturally strong, if you know what I mean? I mean, all that strenuous activity... --- William Ernest Reid

2003-02-13 01:29:55+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Bill Reid <hormelfree@happyhealthy.net>)


Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message news:120220031128229847%dsample@synapse.net... > > And there could be dozen vamps all carrying "momentos" to back up their > claim. "See! I got her left shoe!" "These are her panties!" Who's to > say that the shoe or panties really did or didn't come from the Slayer? > Well, wouldn't Slayer shoes and panties be supernaturally strong, if you know what I mean? I mean, all that strenuous activity... --- William Ernest Reid

2003-02-13 01:54:04+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com>)


"lil T" <upsidedownpizza@excite.com> wrote in message news:hkpl4v4mkdlloqcplnd217f7o7ksp4aer1@4ax.com... > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:40:44 GMT, "Bill Bickel" > If I tell you that your mother was killed by a man named Bill 25 years > ago. And then you meet a man named Bill tomorow you would be sure it > was the same Bill. Right? I'm sorry, but this might be the worst comparison I've ever seen: In the United States today, there are a few hundred thousand human men named Bill, many of whom are infinitely more famous than I am. Vampires named "Spike", on the other hand... much shorter list. Bill Bickel http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com http://www.missing-kids.us

2003-02-13 01:54:04+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com>)


"lil T" <upsidedownpizza@excite.com> wrote in message news:hkpl4v4mkdlloqcplnd217f7o7ksp4aer1@4ax.com... > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:40:44 GMT, "Bill Bickel" > If I tell you that your mother was killed by a man named Bill 25 years > ago. And then you meet a man named Bill tomorow you would be sure it > was the same Bill. Right? I'm sorry, but this might be the worst comparison I've ever seen: In the United States today, there are a few hundred thousand human men named Bill, many of whom are infinitely more famous than I am. Vampires named "Spike", on the other hand... much shorter list. Bill Bickel http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com http://www.missing-kids.us

2003-02-13 12:10:26-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:32:16 +0000, Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:09:58 +0000, Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> >> wrote: > >>>EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >>> >>>The rest of them are dead. No-one's asked Giles questions about >>>slayers with children. > >> I thought the question was about Wood being brought up by a watcher yet not >> being aware that it was Spike who killed his mother. Since Spike appears to >> have quite the reputation among vampires and there were these documented >> references available to the watchers, it's difficult to buy that premise >> that Wood wouldn't be aware of him. > >Why would a watcher raising their slayer's child want send >him to an early grave? A watcher would know full well that >a regular human going after Spike is suicidal. So the watcher raised him, taught him about vampires and trained him for what exactly? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-02-13 12:10:26-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:32:16 +0000, Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:09:58 +0000, Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> >> wrote: > >>>EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >>> >>>The rest of them are dead. No-one's asked Giles questions about >>>slayers with children. > >> I thought the question was about Wood being brought up by a watcher yet not >> being aware that it was Spike who killed his mother. Since Spike appears to >> have quite the reputation among vampires and there were these documented >> references available to the watchers, it's difficult to buy that premise >> that Wood wouldn't be aware of him. > >Why would a watcher raising their slayer's child want send >him to an early grave? A watcher would know full well that >a regular human going after Spike is suicidal. So the watcher raised him, taught him about vampires and trained him for what exactly? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-02-13 14:24:18-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Bill Bickel" <billbick@optonline.com> wrote in message news:0VC2a.302993$HG.49156335@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net... > > "lil T" <upsidedownpizza@excite.com> wrote in message > news:hkpl4v4mkdlloqcplnd217f7o7ksp4aer1@4ax.com... > > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:40:44 GMT, "Bill Bickel" > > > If I tell you that your mother was killed by a man named Bill 25 years > > ago. And then you meet a man named Bill tomorow you would be sure it > > was the same Bill. Right? > > I'm sorry, but this might be the worst comparison I've ever seen: In the > United States today, there are a few hundred thousand human men named Bill, > many of whom are infinitely more famous than I am. Vampires named "Spike", > on the other hand... much shorter list. How about this, then: Wood knew the name of his mother's killer, but only knew him as "William the Bloody". Arnold Kim

2003-02-13 14:24:18-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Bill Bickel" <billbick@optonline.com> wrote in message news:0VC2a.302993$HG.49156335@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net... > > "lil T" <upsidedownpizza@excite.com> wrote in message > news:hkpl4v4mkdlloqcplnd217f7o7ksp4aer1@4ax.com... > > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:40:44 GMT, "Bill Bickel" > > > If I tell you that your mother was killed by a man named Bill 25 years > > ago. And then you meet a man named Bill tomorow you would be sure it > > was the same Bill. Right? > > I'm sorry, but this might be the worst comparison I've ever seen: In the > United States today, there are a few hundred thousand human men named Bill, > many of whom are infinitely more famous than I am. Vampires named "Spike", > on the other hand... much shorter list. How about this, then: Wood knew the name of his mother's killer, but only knew him as "William the Bloody". Arnold Kim

2003-02-13 14:47:20-08:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (nardo218@yahoo.com)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<dbvk4v0ahqb5psj0mprf8hdeg0kn9lt1o3@4ax.com>... > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:47:45 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > > > I'm more bothered by the plot development that Wood suddenly switches gears > in believing the FE about this when he knows it lies and manipulates > everything. Spike killed Wood's mother when he was a little kid, 25 years ago. The entire ep, Wood had been looking at Spike like he recognized him, but wasn't positive. By the end of the ep, the First was only confirming what Wood had suspected; that's why Wood believed it so quickly. (Side note, but how do we know that Wood knows that the First manipulates everything? Anyway, the First wouldn't be a Big Bad if it's only real power -- manipulation -- wasn't very powerful.) Aura

2003-02-13 14:47:20-08:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (nardo218@yahoo.com)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<dbvk4v0ahqb5psj0mprf8hdeg0kn9lt1o3@4ax.com>... > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:47:45 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > > > I'm more bothered by the plot development that Wood suddenly switches gears > in believing the FE about this when he knows it lies and manipulates > everything. Spike killed Wood's mother when he was a little kid, 25 years ago. The entire ep, Wood had been looking at Spike like he recognized him, but wasn't positive. By the end of the ep, the First was only confirming what Wood had suspected; that's why Wood believed it so quickly. (Side note, but how do we know that Wood knows that the First manipulates everything? Anyway, the First wouldn't be a Big Bad if it's only real power -- manipulation -- wasn't very powerful.) Aura

2003-02-13 16:28:48+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk>)


Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > "lil T" <upsidedownpizza@excite.com> wrote in message > news:hkpl4v4mkdlloqcplnd217f7o7ksp4aer1@4ax.com... >> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:40:44 GMT, "Bill Bickel" >> If I tell you that your mother was killed by a man named Bill 25 years >> ago. And then you meet a man named Bill tomorow you would be sure it >> was the same Bill. Right? > I'm sorry, but this might be the worst comparison I've ever seen: In the > United States today, there are a few hundred thousand human men named Bill, > many of whom are infinitely more famous than I am. Vampires named "Spike", > on the other hand... much shorter list. How would anyone know, it's not as if vampires complete census returns...

2003-02-13 16:28:48+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk>)


Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > "lil T" <upsidedownpizza@excite.com> wrote in message > news:hkpl4v4mkdlloqcplnd217f7o7ksp4aer1@4ax.com... >> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:40:44 GMT, "Bill Bickel" >> If I tell you that your mother was killed by a man named Bill 25 years >> ago. And then you meet a man named Bill tomorow you would be sure it >> was the same Bill. Right? > I'm sorry, but this might be the worst comparison I've ever seen: In the > United States today, there are a few hundred thousand human men named Bill, > many of whom are infinitely more famous than I am. Vampires named "Spike", > on the other hand... much shorter list. How would anyone know, it's not as if vampires complete census returns...

2003-02-13 16:32:16+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk>)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:09:58 +0000, Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> > wrote: >>EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >> >>The rest of them are dead. No-one's asked Giles questions about >>slayers with children. > I thought the question was about Wood being brought up by a watcher yet not > being aware that it was Spike who killed his mother. Since Spike appears to > have quite the reputation among vampires and there were these documented > references available to the watchers, it's difficult to buy that premise > that Wood wouldn't be aware of him. Why would a watcher raising their slayer's child want send him to an early grave? A watcher would know full well that a regular human going after Spike is suicidal.

2003-02-13 16:32:16+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk>)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: > On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:09:58 +0000, Mark Evans <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> > wrote: >>EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >> >>The rest of them are dead. No-one's asked Giles questions about >>slayers with children. > I thought the question was about Wood being brought up by a watcher yet not > being aware that it was Spike who killed his mother. Since Spike appears to > have quite the reputation among vampires and there were these documented > references available to the watchers, it's difficult to buy that premise > that Wood wouldn't be aware of him. Why would a watcher raising their slayer's child want send him to an early grave? A watcher would know full well that a regular human going after Spike is suicidal.

2003-02-13 19:38:41+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com>)


"Mark Evans" <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:04hg2b.g7u.ln@anacon.freeserve.co.uk... > Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > > > "lil T" <upsidedownpizza@excite.com> wrote in message > > news:hkpl4v4mkdlloqcplnd217f7o7ksp4aer1@4ax.com... > >> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:40:44 GMT, "Bill Bickel" > > >> If I tell you that your mother was killed by a man named Bill 25 years > >> ago. And then you meet a man named Bill tomorow you would be sure it > >> was the same Bill. Right? > > > I'm sorry, but this might be the worst comparison I've ever seen: In the > > United States today, there are a few hundred thousand human men named Bill, > > many of whom are infinitely more famous than I am. Vampires named "Spike", > > on the other hand... much shorter list. > > How would anyone know, it's not as if vampires complete > census returns... They do, but the form asks how many people are "living" at that address, so... Bill Bickel (and not even remotely the only "Bill Bickel" turned up by Google) http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com http://www.missing-kids.us

2003-02-13 19:38:41+00:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com>)


"Mark Evans" <mpe@anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:04hg2b.g7u.ln@anacon.freeserve.co.uk... > Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com> wrote: > > > "lil T" <upsidedownpizza@excite.com> wrote in message > > news:hkpl4v4mkdlloqcplnd217f7o7ksp4aer1@4ax.com... > >> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:40:44 GMT, "Bill Bickel" > > >> If I tell you that your mother was killed by a man named Bill 25 years > >> ago. And then you meet a man named Bill tomorow you would be sure it > >> was the same Bill. Right? > > > I'm sorry, but this might be the worst comparison I've ever seen: In the > > United States today, there are a few hundred thousand human men named Bill, > > many of whom are infinitely more famous than I am. Vampires named "Spike", > > on the other hand... much shorter list. > > How would anyone know, it's not as if vampires complete > census returns... They do, but the form asks how many people are "living" at that address, so... Bill Bickel (and not even remotely the only "Bill Bickel" turned up by Google) http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com http://www.missing-kids.us

2003-02-14 09:28:51-08:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (nardo218@yahoo.com)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<oakn4v8ccuvcr04pl6kbmi4klasqdkteeb@4ax.com>... > So the watcher raised him, taught him about vampires and trained him for > what exactly? Protection? Because the only way the watcher knew how to raise a child was to treat it like a slayer in his charge? What if Buffy stayed dead. Could you really see Giles wanting Dawn to fight demons? But he'd also couldn't NOT tell her how to protect herself. Aura

2003-02-14 09:28:51-08:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (nardo218@yahoo.com)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:<oakn4v8ccuvcr04pl6kbmi4klasqdkteeb@4ax.com>... > So the watcher raised him, taught him about vampires and trained him for > what exactly? Protection? Because the only way the watcher knew how to raise a child was to treat it like a slayer in his charge? What if Buffy stayed dead. Could you really see Giles wanting Dawn to fight demons? But he'd also couldn't NOT tell her how to protect herself. Aura

2003-02-14 14:10:52-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Chelsea Christenson <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com>)


Ice Queen wrote: > What if Buffy stayed > dead. Could you really see Giles wanting Dawn to fight demons? But > he'd also couldn't NOT tell her how to protect herself. Giles spent a whole summer not telling Dawn how to protect herself.

2003-02-14 14:10:52-05:00 - Re: My one criticism about "First Date" (spoiler) - (Chelsea Christenson <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com>)


Ice Queen wrote: > What if Buffy stayed > dead. Could you really see Giles wanting Dawn to fight demons? But > he'd also couldn't NOT tell her how to protect herself. Giles spent a whole summer not telling Dawn how to protect herself.