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2003-04-16 13:58:08-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Dale Hennessey <dale-filter@REMOVETHISpeergroup.com>)


On 16 Apr 2003 17:01:23 GMT, dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) wrote: :it makes no sense that Faith would remember her : :i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U It's pretty clear from earlier episodes that the monks that turned the The Key into Dawn and hid her in Buffy's family worked some *pretty* powerful mojo so that everyone remembered Dawn, even though they couldn't have. -- Dale Hennessey | My posting address is distorted to deter spam. The PEER Group | Please direct email replies to <dale-filter at Kitchener, ON | peergroup dot com> Canada |

2003-04-16 13:58:08-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Dale Hennessey <dale-filter@REMOVETHISpeergroup.com>)


On 16 Apr 2003 17:01:23 GMT, dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) wrote: :it makes no sense that Faith would remember her : :i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U It's pretty clear from earlier episodes that the monks that turned the The Key into Dawn and hid her in Buffy's family worked some *pretty* powerful mojo so that everyone remembered Dawn, even though they couldn't have. -- Dale Hennessey | My posting address is distorted to deter spam. The PEER Group | Please direct email replies to <dale-filter at Kitchener, ON | peergroup dot com> Canada |

2003-04-16 13:58:19-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - ("Thomas E. O'Sullivan" <teo3@erols.com>)


Not only would Faither remember Dawn, but it's odd that Buffy doesn't remember that Faith was the one to tell her that Dawn was coming... not once, but twice. Once in Season Three (where she also forcasted Buffy's death) and once in Season Four (ahhhh... clean sheets). Faith's coma somehow opened her mind up to THE POWERS THAT BE, or some higher plane of reality that clued her in to what's coming. It's just a pity that they didn't have the time to give Dawn and Faith a better scene. Dawn was almost totally wirtten off this last ep... and where was Anya? T.E. "DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U

2003-04-16 13:58:19-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - ("Thomas E. O'Sullivan" <teo3@erols.com>)


Not only would Faither remember Dawn, but it's odd that Buffy doesn't remember that Faith was the one to tell her that Dawn was coming... not once, but twice. Once in Season Three (where she also forcasted Buffy's death) and once in Season Four (ahhhh... clean sheets). Faith's coma somehow opened her mind up to THE POWERS THAT BE, or some higher plane of reality that clued her in to what's coming. It's just a pity that they didn't have the time to give Dawn and Faith a better scene. Dawn was almost totally wirtten off this last ep... and where was Anya? T.E. "DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U

2003-04-16 14:59:02-05:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - ("Rick Ramey, Celestial Engineer" <rickramey@hotmail.com>)


On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:46:11 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: >In article <20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com>, >dominicanindian@aol.com says... >> it makes no sense that Faith would remember her >> >> i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U >> >--- >Some people cannot grasp the concept: The monk's spell was all >incompensing. Everyone who had or has reason to know of the existance >of Dawn has had there memories altered. School principals, doctors, >nurses, teachers, kindergarden friends, mailmen, etc. ad infinitem; >the beaucracts at social security, EVERYONE who has accessed in anyway >to her previous 14 year old existance personally or through records >would know her or of her. Some people don't know a troll when they see one.

2003-04-16 14:59:02-05:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - ("Rick Ramey, Celestial Engineer" <rickramey@hotmail.com>)


On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:46:11 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: >In article <20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com>, >dominicanindian@aol.com says... >> it makes no sense that Faith would remember her >> >> i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U >> >--- >Some people cannot grasp the concept: The monk's spell was all >incompensing. Everyone who had or has reason to know of the existance >of Dawn has had there memories altered. School principals, doctors, >nurses, teachers, kindergarden friends, mailmen, etc. ad infinitem; >the beaucracts at social security, EVERYONE who has accessed in anyway >to her previous 14 year old existance personally or through records >would know her or of her. Some people don't know a troll when they see one.

2003-04-16 17:01:23+00:00 - dawn and faith , what the fuck - (dominicanindian@aol.com)


it makes no sense that Faith would remember her i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U

2003-04-16 17:01:23+00:00 - dawn and faith , what the fuck - (dominicanindian@aol.com)


it makes no sense that Faith would remember her i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U

2003-04-16 17:21:38+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (baranduyn@aol.com)


>it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > >i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE >U It makes no sense that you think it makes no sense. For whatever reason the producers/writers of BtVS have decided Dawn was seamlessly inserted into reality. The monks' spell made it so she had ALWAYS been Buffy's sister. Therefore those who should have met her...such as Faith or (not yet seen on camera) Cordelia, Wesley and Angel....have met her, have memories of her and do not (unless they are informed by Buffy) know of her true origins. That's ME's decision. If Oz came back he'd know her. That's Joss' decision. I may think it sucks but that's what it is and it will not change.

2003-04-16 17:21:38+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (baranduyn@aol.com)


>it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > >i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE >U It makes no sense that you think it makes no sense. For whatever reason the producers/writers of BtVS have decided Dawn was seamlessly inserted into reality. The monks' spell made it so she had ALWAYS been Buffy's sister. Therefore those who should have met her...such as Faith or (not yet seen on camera) Cordelia, Wesley and Angel....have met her, have memories of her and do not (unless they are informed by Buffy) know of her true origins. That's ME's decision. If Oz came back he'd know her. That's Joss' decision. I may think it sucks but that's what it is and it will not change.

2003-04-16 17:24:59-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (The Babaloughesian <me@privacy.net>)


"DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U Huh? The monks altered reality so that Dawn existed. Why wouldn't Faith know who she is? It's not like they were short-sighted enough to just do a memory spell that would effect only those who happened to be cast members on BTVS at the beginning of season 5.

2003-04-16 17:24:59-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (The Babaloughesian <me@privacy.net>)


"DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U Huh? The monks altered reality so that Dawn existed. Why wouldn't Faith know who she is? It's not like they were short-sighted enough to just do a memory spell that would effect only those who happened to be cast members on BTVS at the beginning of season 5.

2003-04-16 17:37:31+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com>)


"DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U It makes perfect sense in the context of the show - the monks' spell gave false memories to everyone connected to Buffy - so they "remember" Dawn being present even when she wasn't. -- Rowan Hawthorn

2003-04-16 17:37:31+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com>)


"DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U It makes perfect sense in the context of the show - the monks' spell gave false memories to everyone connected to Buffy - so they "remember" Dawn being present even when she wasn't. -- Rowan Hawthorn

2003-04-16 17:37:46-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck. - (ABRAMS1117@webtv.net)


RE: Not only would Faith remember Dawn, but it's odd that Buffy doesn't remember that Faith was the one to tell her that Dawn was coming... ------------------------------------ As soon as Dawn arrived Buffy remembered her as always having been there. ...DAMN, Faith is hot...

2003-04-16 17:37:46-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck. - (ABRAMS1117@webtv.net)


RE: Not only would Faith remember Dawn, but it's odd that Buffy doesn't remember that Faith was the one to tell her that Dawn was coming... ------------------------------------ As soon as Dawn arrived Buffy remembered her as always having been there. ...DAMN, Faith is hot...

2003-04-16 17:52:29+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (thezanyrogue@aol.com)


Its an interesting thing, considering the Faith/Buffy switcheroo deal...quite a mental workout if you think on it. Good brain execise to ward off senility. (that actually works I heard)

2003-04-16 17:52:29+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (thezanyrogue@aol.com)


Its an interesting thing, considering the Faith/Buffy switcheroo deal...quite a mental workout if you think on it. Good brain execise to ward off senility. (that actually works I heard)

2003-04-16 18:14:29+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com>)


"Wouter Valentijn" <Wouter.ValentijnNOT@12move.nl> wrote in message news:b7k583$1sj94$1@ID-43412.news.dfncis.de... > > "Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht > news:vxgna.124104$HU.16955@news.easynews.com... > > > > "DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message > > news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... > > > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > > > > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE > FUCK > > ARE U > > > > It makes perfect sense in the context of the show - the monks' spell gave > > false memories to everyone connected to Buffy - so they "remember" Dawn > > being present even when she wasn't. > > > > Exactly. > The spell effected everybody in the world. > I'm not sure that I'd go that far, since not everyone in the world would know about the Summers family anyway. I suspect that (if this much thought went into it) what happens is: anyone with any current connection to Buffy had their memories altered at the time Dawn was created. Otherwise, their memories are affected upon first contact. Faith knew Buffy *before* Dawn came into existence, therefore she "remembers" Dawn from those days. Anyone who establishes a connection with them after that has memories altered by the spell *as necessary* to continue the facade. -- Rowan Hawthorn

2003-04-16 18:14:29+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Rowan Hawthorn <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com>)


"Wouter Valentijn" <Wouter.ValentijnNOT@12move.nl> wrote in message news:b7k583$1sj94$1@ID-43412.news.dfncis.de... > > "Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht > news:vxgna.124104$HU.16955@news.easynews.com... > > > > "DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message > > news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... > > > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > > > > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE > FUCK > > ARE U > > > > It makes perfect sense in the context of the show - the monks' spell gave > > false memories to everyone connected to Buffy - so they "remember" Dawn > > being present even when she wasn't. > > > > Exactly. > The spell effected everybody in the world. > I'm not sure that I'd go that far, since not everyone in the world would know about the Summers family anyway. I suspect that (if this much thought went into it) what happens is: anyone with any current connection to Buffy had their memories altered at the time Dawn was created. Otherwise, their memories are affected upon first contact. Faith knew Buffy *before* Dawn came into existence, therefore she "remembers" Dawn from those days. Anyone who establishes a connection with them after that has memories altered by the spell *as necessary* to continue the facade. -- Rowan Hawthorn

2003-04-16 18:16:22+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (thezanyrogue@aol.com)


>t's just a pity that they didn't have the time to give Dawn and Faith a >better scene. Dawn was almost totally wirtten off this last ep... and where >was Anya? you know, there are really too many characters of importance. Its almost like they need a soap format, so they can rotate storylines lol an hour a DAY

2003-04-16 18:16:22+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (thezanyrogue@aol.com)


>t's just a pity that they didn't have the time to give Dawn and Faith a >better scene. Dawn was almost totally wirtten off this last ep... and where >was Anya? you know, there are really too many characters of importance. Its almost like they need a soap format, so they can rotate storylines lol an hour a DAY

2003-04-16 18:26:15-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <b7k5im$q24$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Thomas E. O'Sullivan <teo3@erols.com> wrote: > Not only would Faither remember Dawn, but it's odd that Buffy doesn't > remember that Faith was the one to tell her that Dawn was coming... not > once, but twice. Once in Season Three (where she also forcasted Buffy's > death) and once in Season Four (ahhhh... clean sheets). The Dawn bits in the _Graduation Day_ dream were so completely ambiguous that Buffy was better off forgetting them. The clean sheets dream was Faith's. Even if Buffy remembers it too, (as was implied in _Restless_) there is nothing in it that would indicate to Buffy that it was a prophecy of her going to get a sister, since Buffy remembers having had a sister for the last 16 years of her life. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-04-16 18:26:15-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <b7k5im$q24$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Thomas E. O'Sullivan <teo3@erols.com> wrote: > Not only would Faither remember Dawn, but it's odd that Buffy doesn't > remember that Faith was the one to tell her that Dawn was coming... not > once, but twice. Once in Season Three (where she also forcasted Buffy's > death) and once in Season Four (ahhhh... clean sheets). The Dawn bits in the _Graduation Day_ dream were so completely ambiguous that Buffy was better off forgetting them. The clean sheets dream was Faith's. Even if Buffy remembers it too, (as was implied in _Restless_) there is nothing in it that would indicate to Buffy that it was a prophecy of her going to get a sister, since Buffy remembers having had a sister for the last 16 years of her life. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-04-16 18:30:14-07:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (hbond@xoom.it)


baranduyn@aol.com (The Living Personification of Evil) wrote in message news:<20030416132138.18987.00000020@mb-m16.aol.com>... > >it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > > >i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE > >U > > It makes no sense that you think it makes no sense. > > For whatever reason the producers/writers of BtVS have decided Dawn was > seamlessly inserted into reality. The monks' spell made it so she had ALWAYS > been Buffy's sister. Therefore those who should have met her...such as Faith > or (not yet seen on camera) Cordelia, Wesley and Angel....have met her, have > memories of her and do not (unless they are informed by Buffy) know of her true > origins. That's ME's decision. If Oz came back he'd know her. That's Joss' > decision. I may think it sucks but that's what it is and it will not change. It was obviously 1 hell of a spell considering they whipped it up in the seconds before Glory bashed down the door. Not only did it create a completely new being and put false memories in everyones heads, it also created physical evidence of Dawn's existence (diaries, clothes, school grades etc...). The spell hasn't had any dire consequences either (like most other major spells in the Buffy/Angelverse always have eg Jonathon creating the demon as a balance to his new reality, Angel tearing reality when he made Sahjan corporeal, The demon being created when Buffy was broght back to life). Do crazy people still see Dawn as blob of green light? I think that the whole treatment of the 'key' thing post S.5 has been one of the more disappointing aspects of BtVS. Surely the fake reality must start to break down at some stage. H

2003-04-16 18:30:14-07:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (hbond@xoom.it)


baranduyn@aol.com (The Living Personification of Evil) wrote in message news:<20030416132138.18987.00000020@mb-m16.aol.com>... > >it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > > >i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE > >U > > It makes no sense that you think it makes no sense. > > For whatever reason the producers/writers of BtVS have decided Dawn was > seamlessly inserted into reality. The monks' spell made it so she had ALWAYS > been Buffy's sister. Therefore those who should have met her...such as Faith > or (not yet seen on camera) Cordelia, Wesley and Angel....have met her, have > memories of her and do not (unless they are informed by Buffy) know of her true > origins. That's ME's decision. If Oz came back he'd know her. That's Joss' > decision. I may think it sucks but that's what it is and it will not change. It was obviously 1 hell of a spell considering they whipped it up in the seconds before Glory bashed down the door. Not only did it create a completely new being and put false memories in everyones heads, it also created physical evidence of Dawn's existence (diaries, clothes, school grades etc...). The spell hasn't had any dire consequences either (like most other major spells in the Buffy/Angelverse always have eg Jonathon creating the demon as a balance to his new reality, Angel tearing reality when he made Sahjan corporeal, The demon being created when Buffy was broght back to life). Do crazy people still see Dawn as blob of green light? I think that the whole treatment of the 'key' thing post S.5 has been one of the more disappointing aspects of BtVS. Surely the fake reality must start to break down at some stage. H

2003-04-16 19:46:07+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On 16 Apr 2003 17:01:23 GMT, dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) wrote: >it makes no sense that Faith would remember her It makes plenty of sense. Dawn has the all the physical and mental evidence required to establish she existed. That she didn't exist in previous seasons doesn't change that.

2003-04-16 19:46:07+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On 16 Apr 2003 17:01:23 GMT, dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) wrote: >it makes no sense that Faith would remember her It makes plenty of sense. Dawn has the all the physical and mental evidence required to establish she existed. That she didn't exist in previous seasons doesn't change that.

2003-04-16 19:46:11+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com>, dominicanindian@aol.com says... > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U > --- Some people cannot grasp the concept: The monk's spell was all incompensing. Everyone who had or has reason to know of the existance of Dawn has had there memories altered. School principals, doctors, nurses, teachers, kindergarden friends, mailmen, etc. ad infinitem; the beaucracts at social security, EVERYONE who has accessed in anyway to her previous 14 year old existance personally or through records would know her or of her. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-04-16 19:46:11+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com>, dominicanindian@aol.com says... > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U > --- Some people cannot grasp the concept: The monk's spell was all incompensing. Everyone who had or has reason to know of the existance of Dawn has had there memories altered. School principals, doctors, nurses, teachers, kindergarden friends, mailmen, etc. ad infinitem; the beaucracts at social security, EVERYONE who has accessed in anyway to her previous 14 year old existance personally or through records would know her or of her. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-04-16 19:47:54+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On 16 Apr 2003 17:21:38 GMT, baranduyn@aol.com (The Living Personification of Evil) wrote: >>it makes no sense that Faith would remember her >> >>i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE >>U > >It makes no sense that you think it makes no sense. > >For whatever reason the producers/writers of BtVS have decided Dawn was >seamlessly inserted into reality. The monks' spell made it so she had ALWAYS >been Buffy's sister. Therefore those who should have met her...such as Faith >or (not yet seen on camera) Cordelia, Wesley and Angel....have met her, have >memories of her and do not (unless they are informed by Buffy) know of her true >origins. That's ME's decision. If Oz came back he'd know her. That's Joss' >decision. I may think it sucks but that's what it is and it will not change. It is also consistant with Cordelia's fake reality, Skip's fake reality, and Jonathan's fake reality. They all operated globally, affecting everyone. This one is just modest enough that it has never been reversed.

2003-04-16 19:47:54+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On 16 Apr 2003 17:21:38 GMT, baranduyn@aol.com (The Living Personification of Evil) wrote: >>it makes no sense that Faith would remember her >> >>i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE >>U > >It makes no sense that you think it makes no sense. > >For whatever reason the producers/writers of BtVS have decided Dawn was >seamlessly inserted into reality. The monks' spell made it so she had ALWAYS >been Buffy's sister. Therefore those who should have met her...such as Faith >or (not yet seen on camera) Cordelia, Wesley and Angel....have met her, have >memories of her and do not (unless they are informed by Buffy) know of her true >origins. That's ME's decision. If Oz came back he'd know her. That's Joss' >decision. I may think it sucks but that's what it is and it will not change. It is also consistant with Cordelia's fake reality, Skip's fake reality, and Jonathan's fake reality. They all operated globally, affecting everyone. This one is just modest enough that it has never been reversed.

2003-04-16 19:49:35+02:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Wouter Valentijn <Wouter.ValentijnNOT@12move.nl>)


"Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht news:vxgna.124104$HU.16955@news.easynews.com... > > "DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... > > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK > ARE U > > It makes perfect sense in the context of the show - the monks' spell gave > false memories to everyone connected to Buffy - so they "remember" Dawn > being present even when she wasn't. > Exactly. The spell effected everybody in the world. > -- > Rowan Hawthorn > >

2003-04-16 19:49:35+02:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Wouter Valentijn <Wouter.ValentijnNOT@12move.nl>)


"Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht news:vxgna.124104$HU.16955@news.easynews.com... > > "DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... > > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK > ARE U > > It makes perfect sense in the context of the show - the monks' spell gave > false memories to everyone connected to Buffy - so they "remember" Dawn > being present even when she wasn't. > Exactly. The spell effected everybody in the world. > -- > Rowan Hawthorn > >

2003-04-16 21:50:19-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <d09ece8f.0304161730.4534d6df@posting.google.com>, Smelsch <hbond@xoom.it> wrote: > It was obviously 1 hell of a spell considering they whipped it up in > the seconds before Glory bashed down the door. Not only did it create > a completely new being and put false memories in everyones heads, it > also created physical evidence of Dawn's existence (diaries, clothes, > school grades etc...). > > The spell hasn't had any dire consequences either (like most other > major spells in the Buffy/Angelverse always have eg Jonathon creating > the demon as a balance to his new reality, Angel tearing reality when > he made Sahjan corporeal, The demon being created when Buffy was > broght back to life). It was completed while Glory was breaking down the door. They may have been working on it for years. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-04-16 21:50:19-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <d09ece8f.0304161730.4534d6df@posting.google.com>, Smelsch <hbond@xoom.it> wrote: > It was obviously 1 hell of a spell considering they whipped it up in > the seconds before Glory bashed down the door. Not only did it create > a completely new being and put false memories in everyones heads, it > also created physical evidence of Dawn's existence (diaries, clothes, > school grades etc...). > > The spell hasn't had any dire consequences either (like most other > major spells in the Buffy/Angelverse always have eg Jonathon creating > the demon as a balance to his new reality, Angel tearing reality when > he made Sahjan corporeal, The demon being created when Buffy was > broght back to life). It was completed while Glory was breaking down the door. They may have been working on it for years. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-04-16 23:42:20-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Tom Breton <tehom@REMOVEpanNOSPAMix.com>)


Dale Hennessey <dale-filter@REMOVETHISpeergroup.com> writes: > On 16 Apr 2003 17:01:23 GMT, dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) wrote: > > :it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > : > :i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U > > It's pretty clear from earlier episodes that the monks that turned the > The Key into Dawn and hid her in Buffy's family worked some *pretty* > powerful mojo so that everyone remembered Dawn, even though they couldn't > have. Yet even Buffy was able to cast a spell to penetrate the illusion (NPLH) -- Tom Breton at panix.com, username tehom. http://www.panix.com/~tehom

2003-04-16 23:42:20-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Tom Breton <tehom@REMOVEpanNOSPAMix.com>)


Dale Hennessey <dale-filter@REMOVETHISpeergroup.com> writes: > On 16 Apr 2003 17:01:23 GMT, dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) wrote: > > :it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > : > :i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U > > It's pretty clear from earlier episodes that the monks that turned the > The Key into Dawn and hid her in Buffy's family worked some *pretty* > powerful mojo so that everyone remembered Dawn, even though they couldn't > have. Yet even Buffy was able to cast a spell to penetrate the illusion (NPLH) -- Tom Breton at panix.com, username tehom. http://www.panix.com/~tehom

2003-04-17 00:02:52+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Aethelrede <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net>)


Wouter Valentijn wrote in message ... > >"Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht >news:vxgna.124104$HU.16955@news.easynews.com... >> >> "DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message >> news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... >> > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her >> > >> > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE >FUCK >> ARE U >> >> It makes perfect sense in the context of the show - the monks' spell gave >> false memories to everyone connected to Buffy - so they "remember" Dawn >> being present even when she wasn't. >> > >Exactly. >The spell effected everybody in the world. And all the public records too: Dawn seems totally documented.

2003-04-17 00:02:52+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Aethelrede <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net>)


Wouter Valentijn wrote in message ... > >"Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht >news:vxgna.124104$HU.16955@news.easynews.com... >> >> "DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message >> news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... >> > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her >> > >> > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE >FUCK >> ARE U >> >> It makes perfect sense in the context of the show - the monks' spell gave >> false memories to everyone connected to Buffy - so they "remember" Dawn >> being present even when she wasn't. >> > >Exactly. >The spell effected everybody in the world. And all the public records too: Dawn seems totally documented.

2003-04-17 00:12:42+02:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Wouter Valentijn <Wouter.ValentijnNOT@12move.nl>)


"Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht news:94hna.126001$HU.17301@news.easynews.com... > > "Wouter Valentijn" <Wouter.ValentijnNOT@12move.nl> wrote in message > news:b7k583$1sj94$1@ID-43412.news.dfncis.de... > > > > "Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht > > news:vxgna.124104$HU.16955@news.easynews.com... > > > > > > "DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message > > > news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... > > > > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > > > > > > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE > > FUCK > > > ARE U > > > > > > It makes perfect sense in the context of the show - the monks' spell > gave > > > false memories to everyone connected to Buffy - so they "remember" Dawn > > > being present even when she wasn't. > > > > > > > Exactly. > > The spell effected everybody in the world. That might be involved, I meant to say. > > > > I'm not sure that I'd go that far, since not everyone in the world would > know about the Summers family anyway. I suspect that (if this much thought > went into it) what happens is: anyone with any current connection to Buffy > had their memories altered at the time Dawn was created. Otherwise, their > memories are affected upon first contact. Faith knew Buffy *before* Dawn > came into existence, therefore she "remembers" Dawn from those days. Anyone > who establishes a connection with them after that has memories altered by > the spell *as necessary* to continue the facade. > Indeed. And not only memories, but also perception. Through all human senses. Perception of people is been altered in such a manner that they see the Key as Dawn, and images of her in photo's etc. It reminds me of Marvel's Avengers where in the Korvac saga, Michael Korvac altered Starhawk's perception in such a manner that Starhawk couldn't see him. But this case is more complicated of course. > -- > Rowan Hawthorn > -- Wouter Valentijn www.ZeppoDunsel.nl Delete NOT in e-mail address >

2003-04-17 00:12:42+02:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Wouter Valentijn <Wouter.ValentijnNOT@12move.nl>)


"Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht news:94hna.126001$HU.17301@news.easynews.com... > > "Wouter Valentijn" <Wouter.ValentijnNOT@12move.nl> wrote in message > news:b7k583$1sj94$1@ID-43412.news.dfncis.de... > > > > "Rowan Hawthorn" <rowan_hawthorn@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht > > news:vxgna.124104$HU.16955@news.easynews.com... > > > > > > "DominicanIndian" <dominicanindian@aol.com> wrote in message > > > news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com... > > > > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > > > > > > > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE > > FUCK > > > ARE U > > > > > > It makes perfect sense in the context of the show - the monks' spell > gave > > > false memories to everyone connected to Buffy - so they "remember" Dawn > > > being present even when she wasn't. > > > > > > > Exactly. > > The spell effected everybody in the world. That might be involved, I meant to say. > > > > I'm not sure that I'd go that far, since not everyone in the world would > know about the Summers family anyway. I suspect that (if this much thought > went into it) what happens is: anyone with any current connection to Buffy > had their memories altered at the time Dawn was created. Otherwise, their > memories are affected upon first contact. Faith knew Buffy *before* Dawn > came into existence, therefore she "remembers" Dawn from those days. Anyone > who establishes a connection with them after that has memories altered by > the spell *as necessary* to continue the facade. > Indeed. And not only memories, but also perception. Through all human senses. Perception of people is been altered in such a manner that they see the Key as Dawn, and images of her in photo's etc. It reminds me of Marvel's Avengers where in the Korvac saga, Michael Korvac altered Starhawk's perception in such a manner that Starhawk couldn't see him. But this case is more complicated of course. > -- > Rowan Hawthorn > -- Wouter Valentijn www.ZeppoDunsel.nl Delete NOT in e-mail address >

2003-04-17 00:44:14+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <cfdr9v45su39qbvlp8pia1vn9nbesqhpch@4ax.com>, rickramey@hotmail.com says... > On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:46:11 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) > wrote: > > >In article <20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com>, > >dominicanindian@aol.com says... > >> it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > >> > >> i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U > >> > >--- > >Some people cannot grasp the concept: The monk's spell was all > >incompensing. Everyone who had or has reason to know of the existance > >of Dawn has had there memories altered. School principals, doctors, > >nurses, teachers, kindergarden friends, mailmen, etc. ad infinitem; > >the beaucracts at social security, EVERYONE who has accessed in anyway > >to her previous 14 year old existance personally or through records > >would know her or of her. > > Some people don't know a troll when they see one. > ---- Really?!? And what marks him out as a troll eh? -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-04-17 00:44:14+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <cfdr9v45su39qbvlp8pia1vn9nbesqhpch@4ax.com>, rickramey@hotmail.com says... > On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:46:11 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) > wrote: > > >In article <20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com>, > >dominicanindian@aol.com says... > >> it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > >> > >> i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U > >> > >--- > >Some people cannot grasp the concept: The monk's spell was all > >incompensing. Everyone who had or has reason to know of the existance > >of Dawn has had there memories altered. School principals, doctors, > >nurses, teachers, kindergarden friends, mailmen, etc. ad infinitem; > >the beaucracts at social security, EVERYONE who has accessed in anyway > >to her previous 14 year old existance personally or through records > >would know her or of her. > > Some people don't know a troll when they see one. > ---- Really?!? And what marks him out as a troll eh? -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-04-17 00:54:36-05:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <m3smshvlgj.fsf@panix.com>, Tom Breton <tehom@REMOVEpanNOSPAMix.com> wrote: > Dale Hennessey <dale-filter@REMOVETHISpeergroup.com> writes: > > > On 16 Apr 2003 17:01:23 GMT, dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) > > wrote: > > > > :it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > : > > :i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK > > :ARE U > > > > It's pretty clear from earlier episodes that the monks that turned the > > The Key into Dawn and hid her in Buffy's family worked some *pretty* > > powerful mojo so that everyone remembered Dawn, even though they couldn't > > have. > > Yet even Buffy was able to cast a spell to penetrate the illusion > (NPLH) And so could Faith, but why bother?

2003-04-17 00:54:36-05:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <m3smshvlgj.fsf@panix.com>, Tom Breton <tehom@REMOVEpanNOSPAMix.com> wrote: > Dale Hennessey <dale-filter@REMOVETHISpeergroup.com> writes: > > > On 16 Apr 2003 17:01:23 GMT, dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) > > wrote: > > > > :it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > : > > :i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK > > :ARE U > > > > It's pretty clear from earlier episodes that the monks that turned the > > The Key into Dawn and hid her in Buffy's family worked some *pretty* > > powerful mojo so that everyone remembered Dawn, even though they couldn't > > have. > > Yet even Buffy was able to cast a spell to penetrate the illusion > (NPLH) And so could Faith, but why bother?

2003-04-17 07:56:25-05:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - ("Rick Ramey, Celestial Engineer" <rickramey@hotmail.com>)


On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 00:44:14 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: >In article <cfdr9v45su39qbvlp8pia1vn9nbesqhpch@4ax.com>, >rickramey@hotmail.com says... >> On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:46:11 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) >> wrote: >> >> >In article <20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com>, >> >dominicanindian@aol.com says... >> >> it makes no sense that Faith would remember her >> >> >> >> i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U >> >> >> >--- >> >Some people cannot grasp the concept: The monk's spell was all >> >incompensing. Everyone who had or has reason to know of the existance >> >of Dawn has had there memories altered. School principals, doctors, >> >nurses, teachers, kindergarden friends, mailmen, etc. ad infinitem; >> >the beaucracts at social security, EVERYONE who has accessed in anyway >> >to her previous 14 year old existance personally or through records >> >would know her or of her. >> >> Some people don't know a troll when they see one. >> >---- >Really?!? And what marks him out as a troll eh? I was refering to the original poster.

2003-04-17 07:56:25-05:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - ("Rick Ramey, Celestial Engineer" <rickramey@hotmail.com>)


On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 00:44:14 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: >In article <cfdr9v45su39qbvlp8pia1vn9nbesqhpch@4ax.com>, >rickramey@hotmail.com says... >> On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:46:11 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) >> wrote: >> >> >In article <20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com>, >> >dominicanindian@aol.com says... >> >> it makes no sense that Faith would remember her >> >> >> >> i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE U >> >> >> >--- >> >Some people cannot grasp the concept: The monk's spell was all >> >incompensing. Everyone who had or has reason to know of the existance >> >of Dawn has had there memories altered. School principals, doctors, >> >nurses, teachers, kindergarden friends, mailmen, etc. ad infinitem; >> >the beaucracts at social security, EVERYONE who has accessed in anyway >> >to her previous 14 year old existance personally or through records >> >would know her or of her. >> >> Some people don't know a troll when they see one. >> >---- >Really?!? And what marks him out as a troll eh? I was refering to the original poster.

2003-04-17 10:11:56-07:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Dave Wilton <dave@wilton.net>)


On 16 Apr 2003 17:21:38 GMT, baranduyn@aol.com (The Living Personification of Evil) wrote: >>it makes no sense that Faith would remember her >> >>i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE >>U > >It makes no sense that you think it makes no sense. > >For whatever reason the producers/writers of BtVS have decided Dawn was >seamlessly inserted into reality. The monks' spell made it so she had ALWAYS >been Buffy's sister. Therefore those who should have met her...such as Faith >or (not yet seen on camera) Cordelia, Wesley and Angel....have met her, have >memories of her and do not (unless they are informed by Buffy) know of her true >origins. That's ME's decision. If Oz came back he'd know her. That's Joss' >decision. I may think it sucks but that's what it is and it will not change. I always thought it would have been neat if upon first seeing Dawn, people who had known Buffy looked puzzled, wondering who she was. Then after a few seconds recognize her--the spell kicking in and altering their memories. That was Buffy's reaction at the end of BvD, although that can be explained by surprise at seeing Dawn in Buffy's room. It would have added a mysterious spell effect in the opening eps of S5 and would have been a running joke in later seasons, with people like Riley and Faith returning. --Dave Wilton dave@wilton.net http://www.wordorigins.org

2003-04-17 10:11:56-07:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Dave Wilton <dave@wilton.net>)


On 16 Apr 2003 17:21:38 GMT, baranduyn@aol.com (The Living Personification of Evil) wrote: >>it makes no sense that Faith would remember her >> >>i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE FUCK ARE >>U > >It makes no sense that you think it makes no sense. > >For whatever reason the producers/writers of BtVS have decided Dawn was >seamlessly inserted into reality. The monks' spell made it so she had ALWAYS >been Buffy's sister. Therefore those who should have met her...such as Faith >or (not yet seen on camera) Cordelia, Wesley and Angel....have met her, have >memories of her and do not (unless they are informed by Buffy) know of her true >origins. That's ME's decision. If Oz came back he'd know her. That's Joss' >decision. I may think it sucks but that's what it is and it will not change. I always thought it would have been neat if upon first seeing Dawn, people who had known Buffy looked puzzled, wondering who she was. Then after a few seconds recognize her--the spell kicking in and altering their memories. That was Buffy's reaction at the end of BvD, although that can be explained by surprise at seeing Dawn in Buffy's room. It would have added a mysterious spell effect in the opening eps of S5 and would have been a running joke in later seasons, with people like Riley and Faith returning. --Dave Wilton dave@wilton.net http://www.wordorigins.org

2003-04-17 16:02:13-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Thomas E. O'Sullivan" <teo3@erols.com> wrote in message news:b7k5im$q24$1@bob.news.rcn.net... > Not only would Faither remember Dawn, but it's odd that Buffy doesn't > remember that Faith was the one to tell her that Dawn was coming... not > once, but twice. Once in Season Three (where she also forcasted Buffy's > death) and once in Season Four (ahhhh... clean sheets). Faith's coma > somehow opened her mind up to THE POWERS THAT BE, or some higher plane of > reality that clued her in to what's coming. First of all, I don't know if Buffy would remember a couple of cryptic messages from a year or two earlier and apply them to her sister. Secondly, the Buffy wouldn't remember those messages now since, as far as she's concerned, Dawn was always there. Arnold Kim

2003-04-17 16:02:13-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Thomas E. O'Sullivan" <teo3@erols.com> wrote in message news:b7k5im$q24$1@bob.news.rcn.net... > Not only would Faither remember Dawn, but it's odd that Buffy doesn't > remember that Faith was the one to tell her that Dawn was coming... not > once, but twice. Once in Season Three (where she also forcasted Buffy's > death) and once in Season Four (ahhhh... clean sheets). Faith's coma > somehow opened her mind up to THE POWERS THAT BE, or some higher plane of > reality that clued her in to what's coming. First of all, I don't know if Buffy would remember a couple of cryptic messages from a year or two earlier and apply them to her sister. Secondly, the Buffy wouldn't remember those messages now since, as far as she's concerned, Dawn was always there. Arnold Kim

2003-04-17 21:18:04+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (dominicanindian@aol.com)


<< Exactly. The spell effected everybody in the world. >> well that totally sucks

2003-04-17 21:18:04+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (dominicanindian@aol.com)


<< Exactly. The spell effected everybody in the world. >> well that totally sucks

2003-04-18 08:26:38+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) wrote in news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com: > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her On the contrary - it absolutely makes sense! > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE > FUCK ARE U now that would have made no sense whatsoever. Why would *EVERYBODY ELSE* (including some of the fans) remember Dawn's earlier appearance -- but not Faith? It's not like she'd be immune for any particular reason. And may I say "told you so, told you so. nyah nyah nyah" to those who thought that Faith and Dawn wouldn't recognize each other. OF COURSE Dawn remembers Faith trying to kill Buffy! OF COURSE Faith remembers Dawn as being a couple of years younger and not as grown up! Philip Chien (sheesh - some folks still think Dawn was just squeezed into there and they're the only ones who noticed.)

2003-04-18 08:26:38+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) wrote in news:20030416130123.18817.00000023@mb-m06.aol.com: > it makes no sense that Faith would remember her On the contrary - it absolutely makes sense! > i think it would have made much more sense if faith was like WHO THE > FUCK ARE U now that would have made no sense whatsoever. Why would *EVERYBODY ELSE* (including some of the fans) remember Dawn's earlier appearance -- but not Faith? It's not like she'd be immune for any particular reason. And may I say "told you so, told you so. nyah nyah nyah" to those who thought that Faith and Dawn wouldn't recognize each other. OF COURSE Dawn remembers Faith trying to kill Buffy! OF COURSE Faith remembers Dawn as being a couple of years younger and not as grown up! Philip Chien (sheesh - some folks still think Dawn was just squeezed into there and they're the only ones who noticed.)

2003-04-18 08:35:45+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


hbond@xoom.it (Smelsch) wrote in news:d09ece8f.0304161730.4534d6df@posting.google.com: > It was obviously 1 hell of a spell considering they whipped it up in > the seconds before Glory bashed down the door. Not only did it create > a completely new being and put false memories in everyones heads, it > also created physical evidence of Dawn's existence (diaries, clothes, > school grades etc...). Of course you're assuming that the story the monks told (or that we saw) is true in that version. What if Dawn was there all along as Buffy's little sister - so she does have a set of birth certificates, school records, etc. The monks do their spell to try to put the essence of the Key into the Slayer (which would be a far better way to protect it than a 14-year-old girl) but because the monks are rushed and distracted by Glory about to bash down the door they botch up the spell and put the essence of the Key into Dawn instead. And their messed up spell also messes up the french foodstuffs spell, crazy folks, and snakes folks think Dawn never existed even though she was there all along. Hmm - you know, that's so crazy it might just work. (cartoon cliche #5) > The spell hasn't had any dire consequences either (like most other > major spells in the Buffy/Angelverse always have eg Jonathon creating > the demon as a balance to his new reality, Angel tearing reality when > he made Sahjan corporeal, The demon being created when Buffy was > broght back to life). But Anya's been integrated into society without any problems and she created her own existence. Nobody's questions whether or not Anya has a driver's license, social security number, birth certificate, or any of the other things needed to survive in present society. But clearly she does because she was paid by Giles, purchased stocks on the Internet, was the manager of a business. It would be next to impossible for a non-person to exist under those circumstances. Philip Chien (still loving Dawn since "Welcome to Hellmouth" and still confused why some fans can't accept Dawn's existence when they can accept vampires and vampire slayers.)

2003-04-18 08:35:45+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


hbond@xoom.it (Smelsch) wrote in news:d09ece8f.0304161730.4534d6df@posting.google.com: > It was obviously 1 hell of a spell considering they whipped it up in > the seconds before Glory bashed down the door. Not only did it create > a completely new being and put false memories in everyones heads, it > also created physical evidence of Dawn's existence (diaries, clothes, > school grades etc...). Of course you're assuming that the story the monks told (or that we saw) is true in that version. What if Dawn was there all along as Buffy's little sister - so she does have a set of birth certificates, school records, etc. The monks do their spell to try to put the essence of the Key into the Slayer (which would be a far better way to protect it than a 14-year-old girl) but because the monks are rushed and distracted by Glory about to bash down the door they botch up the spell and put the essence of the Key into Dawn instead. And their messed up spell also messes up the french foodstuffs spell, crazy folks, and snakes folks think Dawn never existed even though she was there all along. Hmm - you know, that's so crazy it might just work. (cartoon cliche #5) > The spell hasn't had any dire consequences either (like most other > major spells in the Buffy/Angelverse always have eg Jonathon creating > the demon as a balance to his new reality, Angel tearing reality when > he made Sahjan corporeal, The demon being created when Buffy was > broght back to life). But Anya's been integrated into society without any problems and she created her own existence. Nobody's questions whether or not Anya has a driver's license, social security number, birth certificate, or any of the other things needed to survive in present society. But clearly she does because she was paid by Giles, purchased stocks on the Internet, was the manager of a business. It would be next to impossible for a non-person to exist under those circumstances. Philip Chien (still loving Dawn since "Welcome to Hellmouth" and still confused why some fans can't accept Dawn's existence when they can accept vampires and vampire slayers.)

2003-04-20 19:32:23-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <3ea2f0ae.17610207@news.fu-berlin.de>, Sam James <samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote: > On 16 Apr 2003 17:01:23 GMT, dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) > wrote: > > >it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > Um, remember the monks? They made memories. Faith would have > memories of Dawn just like Buffy and the rest. > > There's never been anything to suggest the monk's memories were just > confined to Sunnydale. And if it had been limited to just Sunnydale, it wouldn't have lasted past Christmas. It could have fallen apart as soon as Joyce had a conversation with her sister Arleen, or Darlene. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-04-20 19:32:23-04:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <3ea2f0ae.17610207@news.fu-berlin.de>, Sam James <samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote: > On 16 Apr 2003 17:01:23 GMT, dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) > wrote: > > >it makes no sense that Faith would remember her > > Um, remember the monks? They made memories. Faith would have > memories of Dawn just like Buffy and the rest. > > There's never been anything to suggest the monk's memories were just > confined to Sunnydale. And if it had been limited to just Sunnydale, it wouldn't have lasted past Christmas. It could have fallen apart as soon as Joyce had a conversation with her sister Arleen, or Darlene. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-04-20 23:11:34+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com)


On 16 Apr 2003 17:01:23 GMT, dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) wrote: >it makes no sense that Faith would remember her Um, remember the monks? They made memories. Faith would have memories of Dawn just like Buffy and the rest. There's never been anything to suggest the monk's memories were just confined to Sunnydale.

2003-04-20 23:11:34+00:00 - Re: dawn and faith , what the fuck - (samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com)


On 16 Apr 2003 17:01:23 GMT, dominicanindian@aol.com (DominicanIndian) wrote: >it makes no sense that Faith would remember her Um, remember the monks? They made memories. Faith would have memories of Dawn just like Buffy and the rest. There's never been anything to suggest the monk's memories were just confined to Sunnydale.