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2003-05-19 06:09:47-07:00 - So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Space: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel.

2003-05-19 06:09:47-07:00 - So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Space: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel.

2003-05-19 11:04:01-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy *** (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: You know, I haven't seen this episode yet, but I think that subject line is probably a spoiler. You're going into my kill file for the next 12 hours. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-19 11:04:01-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy *** (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: You know, I haven't seen this episode yet, but I think that subject line is probably a spoiler. You're going into my kill file for the next 12 hours. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-19 19:30:12-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Caleb <Caleb@notthere.com>)


Carmikl wrote: > > Space: > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. Or a stake. It's hard to believe that the Slayers in Training are able to do what Buffy couldn't do in her first meeting with the Ubervamp. Even with their new power, they shouldn't be better at killing them than Buffy was.

2003-05-19 19:30:12-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Caleb <Caleb@notthere.com>)


Carmikl wrote: > > Space: > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. Or a stake. It's hard to believe that the Slayers in Training are able to do what Buffy couldn't do in her first meeting with the Ubervamp. Even with their new power, they shouldn't be better at killing them than Buffy was.

2003-05-19 20:15:03-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Growltiger wrote: > > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article > <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... > > Space: > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. > -- > That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were using plain old wooden stakes.

2003-05-19 20:15:03-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Growltiger wrote: > > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article > <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... > > Space: > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > ; > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. > -- > That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were using plain old wooden stakes.

2003-05-19 23:54:15-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <3EC99DB7.8B6E6AD9@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > Growltiger wrote: > > > > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article > > <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... > > > Space: > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > > > > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and > > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. > > -- > > > That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that > wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill > Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were > using plain old wooden stakes. The first Ubie the First brought out was the best and brightest of the lot. The Ubie's strongest warrior, etc and so forth. The First wouldn't settle for anything less as its champion. It may have even gotten a power boost the way the First was giving Caleb a power boost. The ubies that they had to battle in _Chosen_ were just cannon fodder ubies. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-19 23:54:15-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <3EC99DB7.8B6E6AD9@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > Growltiger wrote: > > > > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article > > <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... > > > Space: > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > ; > > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > > > > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and > > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. > > -- > > > That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that > wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill > Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were > using plain old wooden stakes. The first Ubie the First brought out was the best and brightest of the lot. The Ubie's strongest warrior, etc and so forth. The First wouldn't settle for anything less as its champion. It may have even gotten a power boost the way the First was giving Caleb a power boost. The ubies that they had to battle in _Chosen_ were just cannon fodder ubies. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-19 23:58:02-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Mon, 19 May 2003 23:54:15 -0400, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >In article <3EC99DB7.8B6E6AD9@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >> Growltiger wrote: >> > >> > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article >> > <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... >> > > Space: >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have >> > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have >> > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. >> > > >> > >> > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and >> > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. >> > -- >> > >> That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that >> wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill >> Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were >> using plain old wooden stakes. > >The first Ubie the First brought out was the best and brightest of the >lot. The Ubie's strongest warrior, etc and so forth. The First >wouldn't settle for anything less as its champion. It may have even >gotten a power boost the way the First was giving Caleb a power boost. > >The ubies that they had to battle in _Chosen_ were just cannon fodder >ubies. ROFL!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-05-19 23:58:02-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Mon, 19 May 2003 23:54:15 -0400, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >In article <3EC99DB7.8B6E6AD9@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >> Growltiger wrote: >> > >> > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article >> > <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... >> > > Space: >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > ; >> > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have >> > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have >> > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. >> > > >> > >> > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and >> > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. >> > -- >> > >> That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that >> wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill >> Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were >> using plain old wooden stakes. > >The first Ubie the First brought out was the best and brightest of the >lot. The Ubie's strongest warrior, etc and so forth. The First >wouldn't settle for anything less as its champion. It may have even >gotten a power boost the way the First was giving Caleb a power boost. > >The ubies that they had to battle in _Chosen_ were just cannon fodder >ubies. ROFL!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-05-20 00:39:12+00:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... > Space: > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-05-20 00:39:12+00:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... > Space: > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > ; > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-05-20 01:58:51-05:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <Xns9380ECD7BD206ricksamshawca@24.71.223.159>, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: > Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net> wrote in > news:gjdjcvsuk72qg7pmlbk7uiptudjtvm4dtf@4ax.com: > > > On Mon, 19 May 2003 06:09:47 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > >>If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > >>had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > >>had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > Yup. If the first Ubervamp kicked Buffy around, when faced with > > thousands of them, everyone shouldn't have been able to knock them > > over with a bad look. > > Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came first > -because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber minions. So the First's plan was to release a few thousand vampires onto the Earth? How is that any different then what the Buffyverse already had?

2003-05-20 01:58:51-05:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <Xns9380ECD7BD206ricksamshawca@24.71.223.159>, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: > Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net> wrote in > news:gjdjcvsuk72qg7pmlbk7uiptudjtvm4dtf@4ax.com: > > > On Mon, 19 May 2003 06:09:47 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > >>If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > >>had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > >>had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > Yup. If the first Ubervamp kicked Buffy around, when faced with > > thousands of them, everyone shouldn't have been able to knock them > > over with a bad look. > > Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came first > -because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber minions. So the First's plan was to release a few thousand vampires onto the Earth? How is that any different then what the Buffyverse already had?

2003-05-20 03:05:51-05:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > In article <a-600E64.01585120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish > <a@a.edu> wrote: > > > In article <Xns9380ECD7BD206ricksamshawca@24.71.223.159>, > > Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: > > > > > Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net> wrote in > > > news:gjdjcvsuk72qg7pmlbk7uiptudjtvm4dtf@4ax.com: > > > > > > > On Mon, 19 May 2003 06:09:47 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >>If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > > >>had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > > >>had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > > > > > Yup. If the first Ubervamp kicked Buffy around, when faced with > > > > thousands of them, everyone shouldn't have been able to knock them > > > > over with a bad look. > > > > > > Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came first > > > -because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber minions. > > > > So the First's plan was to release a few thousand vampires onto the > > Earth? How is that any different then what the Buffyverse already had? > > > We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. > It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that > we never would have known what his plan was either. And that would have been an entertaining season....

2003-05-20 03:05:51-05:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > In article <a-600E64.01585120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish > <a@a.edu> wrote: > > > In article <Xns9380ECD7BD206ricksamshawca@24.71.223.159>, > > Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: > > > > > Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net> wrote in > > > news:gjdjcvsuk72qg7pmlbk7uiptudjtvm4dtf@4ax.com: > > > > > > > On Mon, 19 May 2003 06:09:47 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >>If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > > >>had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > > >>had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > > > > > Yup. If the first Ubervamp kicked Buffy around, when faced with > > > > thousands of them, everyone shouldn't have been able to knock them > > > > over with a bad look. > > > > > > Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came first > > > -because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber minions. > > > > So the First's plan was to release a few thousand vampires onto the > > Earth? How is that any different then what the Buffyverse already had? > > > We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. > It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that > we never would have known what his plan was either. And that would have been an entertaining season....

2003-05-20 03:07:55-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (hbond@xoom.it)


Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message news:<190520032354151948%dsample@synapse.net>... > In article <3EC99DB7.8B6E6AD9@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > Growltiger wrote: > > > > > > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article > > > <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... > > > > Space: > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > > > > > > > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and > > > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. > > > -- > > > > > That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that > > wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill > > Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were > > using plain old wooden stakes. > > The first Ubie the First brought out was the best and brightest of the > lot. The Ubie's strongest warrior, etc and so forth. The First > wouldn't settle for anything less as its champion. It may have even > gotten a power boost the way the First was giving Caleb a power boost. > > The ubies that they had to battle in _Chosen_ were just cannon fodder > ubies. What a load of rubbish. This is just speculation & excuse making over one of the many glaring plot inconsistencies in 'Chosen'. Point me to the place in a previous episode where any of this was stated or even hinted at. Other insults to our intelligence in 'Chosen' were Buffy's not-so-mortal injury, the lack of mourning for Anya and the release of 100's or 1000's of new slayers. Of course with no Watchers Council to help & train these girls, I would expect all of them to instinctively fight on the side of good. None of them would be corrupted by their superpowers because slayers never go bad... Hopefully we'll see a few slayers-gone-bad on Angel next season... I just got the feeling that Joss Whedon's heart wasn't really in it with this episode, and that it should have been a 2-parter, but then you can't really expect a single writer to come in at the end and fix up most of the crap the other writers have been ladling up to us all season. The 'So, whatever became of...' collection: * 'From Beneath you it devours'/The hellmouth has teeth * Joyce's message to Dawn about Buffy not choosing her. * The 1st's motivation & the loophole that allowed it to act (and don't tell me it was so it could become solid & 'feel' things). * the reason why Caleb didn't just blow up the Summers house (we'd been led to believe The 1st was keeping Buffy alive for some reason). * Where the hell did the 3 Ubie's who showed up after the explosion come from? Never explained, never even mentioned. Was the hellmouth leaking? H

2003-05-20 03:07:55-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (hbond@xoom.it)


Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message news:<190520032354151948%dsample@synapse.net>... > In article <3EC99DB7.8B6E6AD9@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > Growltiger wrote: > > > > > > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article > > > <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... > > > > Space: > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > > > > > > > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and > > > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. > > > -- > > > > > That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that > > wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill > > Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were > > using plain old wooden stakes. > > The first Ubie the First brought out was the best and brightest of the > lot. The Ubie's strongest warrior, etc and so forth. The First > wouldn't settle for anything less as its champion. It may have even > gotten a power boost the way the First was giving Caleb a power boost. > > The ubies that they had to battle in _Chosen_ were just cannon fodder > ubies. What a load of rubbish. This is just speculation & excuse making over one of the many glaring plot inconsistencies in 'Chosen'. Point me to the place in a previous episode where any of this was stated or even hinted at. Other insults to our intelligence in 'Chosen' were Buffy's not-so-mortal injury, the lack of mourning for Anya and the release of 100's or 1000's of new slayers. Of course with no Watchers Council to help & train these girls, I would expect all of them to instinctively fight on the side of good. None of them would be corrupted by their superpowers because slayers never go bad... Hopefully we'll see a few slayers-gone-bad on Angel next season... I just got the feeling that Joss Whedon's heart wasn't really in it with this episode, and that it should have been a 2-parter, but then you can't really expect a single writer to come in at the end and fix up most of the crap the other writers have been ladling up to us all season. The 'So, whatever became of...' collection: * 'From Beneath you it devours'/The hellmouth has teeth * Joyce's message to Dawn about Buffy not choosing her. * The 1st's motivation & the loophole that allowed it to act (and don't tell me it was so it could become solid & 'feel' things). * the reason why Caleb didn't just blow up the Summers house (we'd been led to believe The 1st was keeping Buffy alive for some reason). * Where the hell did the 3 Ubie's who showed up after the explosion come from? Never explained, never even mentioned. Was the hellmouth leaking? H

2003-05-20 03:32:12-05:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <200520030420125776%dsample@synapse.net>, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > In article <a-378048.03055120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish > <a@a.edu> wrote: > > > In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > > > We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. > > > It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that > > > we never would have known what his plan was either. > > > > And that would have been an entertaining season.... > > Most people thought it was. As did I. It was entertaining because we ultimately discovered what the Mayor's plan was.

2003-05-20 03:32:12-05:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <200520030420125776%dsample@synapse.net>, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > In article <a-378048.03055120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish > <a@a.edu> wrote: > > > In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > > > We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. > > > It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that > > > we never would have known what his plan was either. > > > > And that would have been an entertaining season.... > > Most people thought it was. As did I. It was entertaining because we ultimately discovered what the Mayor's plan was.

2003-05-20 03:36:55-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <a-600E64.01585120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> wrote: > In article <Xns9380ECD7BD206ricksamshawca@24.71.223.159>, > Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: > > > Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net> wrote in > > news:gjdjcvsuk72qg7pmlbk7uiptudjtvm4dtf@4ax.com: > > > > > On Mon, 19 May 2003 06:09:47 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > > >>If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > >>had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > >>had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > > > Yup. If the first Ubervamp kicked Buffy around, when faced with > > > thousands of them, everyone shouldn't have been able to knock them > > > over with a bad look. > > > > Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came first > > -because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber minions. > > So the First's plan was to release a few thousand vampires onto the > Earth? How is that any different then what the Buffyverse already had? We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that we never would have known what his plan was either. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-20 03:36:55-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <a-600E64.01585120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> wrote: > In article <Xns9380ECD7BD206ricksamshawca@24.71.223.159>, > Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: > > > Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net> wrote in > > news:gjdjcvsuk72qg7pmlbk7uiptudjtvm4dtf@4ax.com: > > > > > On Mon, 19 May 2003 06:09:47 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > > >>If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > >>had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > >>had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > > > Yup. If the first Ubervamp kicked Buffy around, when faced with > > > thousands of them, everyone shouldn't have been able to knock them > > > over with a bad look. > > > > Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came first > > -because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber minions. > > So the First's plan was to release a few thousand vampires onto the > Earth? How is that any different then what the Buffyverse already had? We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that we never would have known what his plan was either. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-20 04:20:12-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <a-378048.03055120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> wrote: > In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. > > It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that > > we never would have known what his plan was either. > > And that would have been an entertaining season.... Most people thought it was. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-20 04:20:12-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <a-378048.03055120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> wrote: > In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. > > It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that > > we never would have known what his plan was either. > > And that would have been an entertaining season.... Most people thought it was. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-20 05:01:11+00:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net>)


On Mon, 19 May 2003 06:09:47 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have >had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have >had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. Yup. If the first Ubervamp kicked Buffy around, when faced with thousands of them, everyone shouldn't have been able to knock them over with a bad look.

2003-05-20 05:01:11+00:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net>)


On Mon, 19 May 2003 06:09:47 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have >had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have >had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. Yup. If the first Ubervamp kicked Buffy around, when faced with thousands of them, everyone shouldn't have been able to knock them over with a bad look.

2003-05-20 05:16:47+00:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca>)


Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net> wrote in news:gjdjcvsuk72qg7pmlbk7uiptudjtvm4dtf@4ax.com: > On Mon, 19 May 2003 06:09:47 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >>If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have >>had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have >>had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > Yup. If the first Ubervamp kicked Buffy around, when faced with > thousands of them, everyone shouldn't have been able to knock them > over with a bad look. Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came first -because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber minions. -- Rick S. Calgary, Alberta rick-sam@shaw.ca

2003-05-20 05:16:47+00:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca>)


Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net> wrote in news:gjdjcvsuk72qg7pmlbk7uiptudjtvm4dtf@4ax.com: > On Mon, 19 May 2003 06:09:47 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >>If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have >>had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have >>had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > Yup. If the first Ubervamp kicked Buffy around, when faced with > thousands of them, everyone shouldn't have been able to knock them > over with a bad look. Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came first -because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber minions. -- Rick S. Calgary, Alberta rick-sam@shaw.ca

2003-05-20 06:59:21-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Don Sample wrote: > > In article <3EC99DB7.8B6E6AD9@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > Growltiger wrote: > > > > > > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article > > > <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... > > > > Space: > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > > > > > > > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and > > > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. > > > -- > > > > > That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that > > wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill > > Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were > > using plain old wooden stakes. > > The first Ubie the First brought out was the best and brightest of the > lot. The Ubie's strongest warrior, etc and so forth. The First > wouldn't settle for anything less as its champion. It may have even > gotten a power boost the way the First was giving Caleb a power boost. > > The ubies that they had to battle in _Chosen_ were just cannon fodder > ubies. > An army of canon fodder isn't much of a threat.

2003-05-20 06:59:21-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Don Sample wrote: > > In article <3EC99DB7.8B6E6AD9@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > Growltiger wrote: > > > > > > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article > > > <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... > > > > Space: > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > ; > > > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > > > > > > > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and > > > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. > > > -- > > > > > That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that > > wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill > > Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were > > using plain old wooden stakes. > > The first Ubie the First brought out was the best and brightest of the > lot. The Ubie's strongest warrior, etc and so forth. The First > wouldn't settle for anything less as its champion. It may have even > gotten a power boost the way the First was giving Caleb a power boost. > > The ubies that they had to battle in _Chosen_ were just cannon fodder > ubies. > An army of canon fodder isn't much of a threat.

2003-05-20 11:35:43-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Tue, 20 May 2003 03:36:55 -0400, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >In article <a-600E64.01585120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish ><a@a.edu> wrote: > >> In article <Xns9380ECD7BD206ricksamshawca@24.71.223.159>, >> Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: >> >> > Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net> wrote in >> > news:gjdjcvsuk72qg7pmlbk7uiptudjtvm4dtf@4ax.com: >> > >> > > On Mon, 19 May 2003 06:09:47 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >> > > >> > >>If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have >> > >>had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have >> > >>had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. >> > > >> > > Yup. If the first Ubervamp kicked Buffy around, when faced with >> > > thousands of them, everyone shouldn't have been able to knock them >> > > over with a bad look. >> > >> > Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came first >> > -because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber minions. >> >> So the First's plan was to release a few thousand vampires onto the >> Earth? How is that any different then what the Buffyverse already had? > > >We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. >It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that >we never would have known what his plan was either. Actually we did hear what the outcome of the First's plan was. To become powerful enough to enter everyone on earth thus allowing it to become corporeal. The problem is none of the questions this season raised were ever answered as to why the fault in the slayer line was suddenly going to allow that. Also, so many people on here talk about the tie-in with "Frey" and the future of the slayers but I for one have never read that and I doubt most average fans know anything about it at all. Joss and the writers were just too lazy to fill in all the huge, gaping plot holes in the convoluted mess they left this season. Heck, I felt cheated by the lack of build-up to the scythe and then the amulet. Both smacked of deus ex machinas at work. They just suddenly came out of nowhere, especially the amulet. Fortunate that Angel just happened to show up with it especially if you don't watch Angel. Even on that show Angel just happens to gain access to it in a seeming throw-away manner in the last episode of his series. I've been reading interviews with Joss lately and in most all of them he talks about how tired he is after 7 years. All I can say is it sure showed up in the final product. Buffy taking a mortal wound in the final battle then getting back up as if nothing happened is a pretty good analogy for how the season went. Don't worry about making sense, just get it done. The whole season's arc went at an absolute snail's pace then suddenly in the last 3-4 episodes it sped up and just glossed over everything they'd been building up to all year. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-05-20 11:35:43-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Tue, 20 May 2003 03:36:55 -0400, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >In article <a-600E64.01585120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish ><a@a.edu> wrote: > >> In article <Xns9380ECD7BD206ricksamshawca@24.71.223.159>, >> Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: >> >> > Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net> wrote in >> > news:gjdjcvsuk72qg7pmlbk7uiptudjtvm4dtf@4ax.com: >> > >> > > On Mon, 19 May 2003 06:09:47 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >> > > >> > >>If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have >> > >>had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have >> > >>had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. >> > > >> > > Yup. If the first Ubervamp kicked Buffy around, when faced with >> > > thousands of them, everyone shouldn't have been able to knock them >> > > over with a bad look. >> > >> > Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came first >> > -because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber minions. >> >> So the First's plan was to release a few thousand vampires onto the >> Earth? How is that any different then what the Buffyverse already had? > > >We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. >It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that >we never would have known what his plan was either. Actually we did hear what the outcome of the First's plan was. To become powerful enough to enter everyone on earth thus allowing it to become corporeal. The problem is none of the questions this season raised were ever answered as to why the fault in the slayer line was suddenly going to allow that. Also, so many people on here talk about the tie-in with "Frey" and the future of the slayers but I for one have never read that and I doubt most average fans know anything about it at all. Joss and the writers were just too lazy to fill in all the huge, gaping plot holes in the convoluted mess they left this season. Heck, I felt cheated by the lack of build-up to the scythe and then the amulet. Both smacked of deus ex machinas at work. They just suddenly came out of nowhere, especially the amulet. Fortunate that Angel just happened to show up with it especially if you don't watch Angel. Even on that show Angel just happens to gain access to it in a seeming throw-away manner in the last episode of his series. I've been reading interviews with Joss lately and in most all of them he talks about how tired he is after 7 years. All I can say is it sure showed up in the final product. Buffy taking a mortal wound in the final battle then getting back up as if nothing happened is a pretty good analogy for how the season went. Don't worry about making sense, just get it done. The whole season's arc went at an absolute snail's pace then suddenly in the last 3-4 episodes it sped up and just glossed over everything they'd been building up to all year. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-05-20 12:12:22-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Mark Jones <sinanju@pacifier.com>)


Don Sample wrote: > In article <a-AFA696.03321220052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish > <a@a.edu> wrote: > > >>In article <200520030420125776%dsample@synapse.net>, >> Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >> >> >>>In article <a-378048.03055120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish >>><a@a.edu> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, >>>> Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. >>>>>It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that >>>>>we never would have known what his plan was either. >>>> >>>>And that would have been an entertaining season.... >>> >>>Most people thought it was. >> >>As did I. It was entertaining because we ultimately discovered what the >>Mayor's plan was. > > > So you were unentertained for 8 months, and suddenly it all became good? > > If the WB had decided to pull the plug permanently on Buffy after > _Enemies_ would the episodes leading up to that suddenly have become > crap? You're moving the goalpost. You claimed that we didn't know what the First Evil's plan was because Buffy killed him/her/it before the plan came to fruition, just as if she'd killed the Mayor early on. But the Mayor _wasn't_ killed off early. He was the villain right up to the end of the season. JUST LIKE THE FIRST EVIL. If he'd been cut down in mid-"bwah-hah-hah" early on, he'd have been an amusing bit of comic relief rather than the real villain of the season. But he wasn't. Nor was the First Evil. They both were the (alleged, in the case of the FE) major bad guy for the end of their respective seasons. Unlike the First Evil, however, the Mayor had a coherent plan that could be explained to the audience. I realize, of course, that you can (and will) fanwank frantically to cover all the plot holes in Buffy (though how you can do that and not cut the Angel series the same slack amazes me)--but the plot holes are there.

2003-05-20 12:12:22-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Mark Jones <sinanju@pacifier.com>)


Don Sample wrote: > In article <a-AFA696.03321220052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish > <a@a.edu> wrote: > > >>In article <200520030420125776%dsample@synapse.net>, >> Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >> >> >>>In article <a-378048.03055120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish >>><a@a.edu> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, >>>> Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. >>>>>It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that >>>>>we never would have known what his plan was either. >>>> >>>>And that would have been an entertaining season.... >>> >>>Most people thought it was. >> >>As did I. It was entertaining because we ultimately discovered what the >>Mayor's plan was. > > > So you were unentertained for 8 months, and suddenly it all became good? > > If the WB had decided to pull the plug permanently on Buffy after > _Enemies_ would the episodes leading up to that suddenly have become > crap? You're moving the goalpost. You claimed that we didn't know what the First Evil's plan was because Buffy killed him/her/it before the plan came to fruition, just as if she'd killed the Mayor early on. But the Mayor _wasn't_ killed off early. He was the villain right up to the end of the season. JUST LIKE THE FIRST EVIL. If he'd been cut down in mid-"bwah-hah-hah" early on, he'd have been an amusing bit of comic relief rather than the real villain of the season. But he wasn't. Nor was the First Evil. They both were the (alleged, in the case of the FE) major bad guy for the end of their respective seasons. Unlike the First Evil, however, the Mayor had a coherent plan that could be explained to the audience. I realize, of course, that you can (and will) fanwank frantically to cover all the plot holes in Buffy (though how you can do that and not cut the Angel series the same slack amazes me)--but the plot holes are there.

2003-05-20 12:37:08-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <a-AFA696.03321220052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> wrote: > In article <200520030420125776%dsample@synapse.net>, > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > In article <a-378048.03055120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish > > <a@a.edu> wrote: > > > > > In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, > > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > > > > > We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. > > > > It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that > > > > we never would have known what his plan was either. > > > > > > And that would have been an entertaining season.... > > > > Most people thought it was. > > As did I. It was entertaining because we ultimately discovered what the > Mayor's plan was. So you were unentertained for 8 months, and suddenly it all became good? If the WB had decided to pull the plug permanently on Buffy after _Enemies_ would the episodes leading up to that suddenly have become crap? -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-20 12:37:08-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <a-AFA696.03321220052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> wrote: > In article <200520030420125776%dsample@synapse.net>, > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > In article <a-378048.03055120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish > > <a@a.edu> wrote: > > > > > In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, > > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > > > > > We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. > > > > It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that > > > > we never would have known what his plan was either. > > > > > > And that would have been an entertaining season.... > > > > Most people thought it was. > > As did I. It was entertaining because we ultimately discovered what the > Mayor's plan was. So you were unentertained for 8 months, and suddenly it all became good? If the WB had decided to pull the plug permanently on Buffy after _Enemies_ would the episodes leading up to that suddenly have become crap? -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-20 12:43:31-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Tue, 20 May 2003 12:37:08 -0400, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >In article <a-AFA696.03321220052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish ><a@a.edu> wrote: > >> In article <200520030420125776%dsample@synapse.net>, >> Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >> >> > In article <a-378048.03055120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish >> > <a@a.edu> wrote: >> > >> > > In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, >> > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >> > > >> > > > We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. >> > > > It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that >> > > > we never would have known what his plan was either. >> > > >> > > And that would have been an entertaining season.... >> > >> > Most people thought it was. >> >> As did I. It was entertaining because we ultimately discovered what the >> Mayor's plan was. > >So you were unentertained for 8 months, and suddenly it all became good? > >If the WB had decided to pull the plug permanently on Buffy after >_Enemies_ would the episodes leading up to that suddenly have become >crap? Season 3 had a lot of stand alone episodes. Many are the best episodes in the whole series. Season 7 all depended on how the arc held together. If you try and built momentum or tension or keep the drama going all season long, you better have a pay-off. In this case they just got lazy and glossed over everything they were building up to. The final episode was good if viewed as a stand-alone. It makes the season as a whole very disappointing. I don't know if you watch 24 but if they had never answered the question as to why someone was planning to detonate a Nuclear device on US soil it would have been akin to this. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-05-20 12:43:31-04:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Tue, 20 May 2003 12:37:08 -0400, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >In article <a-AFA696.03321220052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish ><a@a.edu> wrote: > >> In article <200520030420125776%dsample@synapse.net>, >> Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >> >> > In article <a-378048.03055120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish >> > <a@a.edu> wrote: >> > >> > > In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, >> > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >> > > >> > > > We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that far. >> > > > It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done that >> > > > we never would have known what his plan was either. >> > > >> > > And that would have been an entertaining season.... >> > >> > Most people thought it was. >> >> As did I. It was entertaining because we ultimately discovered what the >> Mayor's plan was. > >So you were unentertained for 8 months, and suddenly it all became good? > >If the WB had decided to pull the plug permanently on Buffy after >_Enemies_ would the episodes leading up to that suddenly have become >crap? Season 3 had a lot of stand alone episodes. Many are the best episodes in the whole series. Season 7 all depended on how the arc held together. If you try and built momentum or tension or keep the drama going all season long, you better have a pay-off. In this case they just got lazy and glossed over everything they were building up to. The final episode was good if viewed as a stand-alone. It makes the season as a whole very disappointing. I don't know if you watch 24 but if they had never answered the question as to why someone was planning to detonate a Nuclear device on US soil it would have been akin to this. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-05-20 13:15:38-05:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <200520031237080214%dsample@synapse.net>, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > In article <a-AFA696.03321220052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish > <a@a.edu> wrote: > > > In article <200520030420125776%dsample@synapse.net>, > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > > > In article <a-378048.03055120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish > > > <a@a.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, > > > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that > > > > > far. > > > > > It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done > > > > > that > > > > > we never would have known what his plan was either. > > > > > > > > And that would have been an entertaining season.... > > > > > > Most people thought it was. > > > > As did I. It was entertaining because we ultimately discovered what the > > Mayor's plan was. > > So you were unentertained for 8 months, and suddenly it all became good? > > If the WB had decided to pull the plug permanently on Buffy after > _Enemies_ would the episodes leading up to that suddenly have become > crap? Many of the episodes in season three were stand alone, therefore if the show had suddenly become canceled after Enemies my enjoyment of the previous episodes would have been only slightly dimished (and only for those shows that rested on the Mayor's arc). Season seven, on the other hand, had few episodes that were not arc related. It's like reading a mystery and discovering that the last ten pages are missing, not because someone cut them out or because of a printing error but because that's how the author planned it. You'd be damn right if I now viewed the previous chapters as crap....

2003-05-20 13:15:38-05:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <200520031237080214%dsample@synapse.net>, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > In article <a-AFA696.03321220052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish > <a@a.edu> wrote: > > > In article <200520030420125776%dsample@synapse.net>, > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > > > In article <a-378048.03055120052003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, Darwin Fish > > > <a@a.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > In article <200520030336558783%dsample@synapse.net>, > > > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > We don't know what the First's plan was. The First never got that > > > > > far. > > > > > It's as if Buffy had killed the Mayor in _Enemies_. If she'd done > > > > > that > > > > > we never would have known what his plan was either. > > > > > > > > And that would have been an entertaining season.... > > > > > > Most people thought it was. > > > > As did I. It was entertaining because we ultimately discovered what the > > Mayor's plan was. > > So you were unentertained for 8 months, and suddenly it all became good? > > If the WB had decided to pull the plug permanently on Buffy after > _Enemies_ would the episodes leading up to that suddenly have become > crap? Many of the episodes in season three were stand alone, therefore if the show had suddenly become canceled after Enemies my enjoyment of the previous episodes would have been only slightly dimished (and only for those shows that rested on the Mayor's arc). Season seven, on the other hand, had few episodes that were not arc related. It's like reading a mystery and discovering that the last ten pages are missing, not because someone cut them out or because of a printing error but because that's how the author planned it. You'd be damn right if I now viewed the previous chapters as crap....

2003-05-20 20:19:29+00:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net>)


On Tue, 20 May 2003 05:16:47 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: >Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came first >-because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber minions. When Buffy had her vision, she certainly seemed to think there were hundreds or thousands of Ubervamps. Sure, she could have been wrong, but you'd think a slayer would know these kind of things.

2003-05-20 20:19:29+00:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net>)


On Tue, 20 May 2003 05:16:47 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: >Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came first >-because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber minions. When Buffy had her vision, she certainly seemed to think there were hundreds or thousands of Ubervamps. Sure, she could have been wrong, but you'd think a slayer would know these kind of things.

2003-05-20 21:47:54+00:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca>)


Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net> wrote in news:id3lcv4ljkvtilprmerat6igbnl5lv6jid@4ax.com: > On Tue, 20 May 2003 05:16:47 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: > >>Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came >>first -because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber >>minions. > > When Buffy had her vision, she certainly seemed to think there were > hundreds or thousands of Ubervamps. Sure, she could have been wrong, > but you'd think a slayer would know these kind of things. How could she know? Buffy herself looks perfectly normal compared to other humans, but it turns out she's not. Based on what we've seen in a number of episodes, I know something about that first Ubervamp is different than the ones that followed. So we can either decide that the first one was actually more powerful, or we can blame the writers. I prefer to go with what I see. The first one was hard to kill, the rest, not so much. Everything I wrote above is observation, if you want to know why that first Ubervamp was more powerful, let's take a walk into fanwank land. If I had a whole army of Vamps that weren't really all that powerful against a Slayer and their only real advantage were the numbers, it might help to bring out the most powerful one first and let the scoobies believe they were all like that. If I recall, when Buffy killed that Ubervamp, the First was kind of ticked as if he needed that particular one and not one of the millions waiting below. That was the only one that was hard to kill wasn't it? The other three that appeared weren't that big a deal any more than the ones in the final battle. To me looked like it was all an intimidation ploy by the First. -- Rick S. Calgary, Alberta rick-sam@shaw.ca

2003-05-20 21:47:54+00:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca>)


Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net> wrote in news:id3lcv4ljkvtilprmerat6igbnl5lv6jid@4ax.com: > On Tue, 20 May 2003 05:16:47 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: > >>Are we sure these vamps were Ubervamps? Maybe that first one came >>first -because- it was more powerful. These may be the not-so-uber >>minions. > > When Buffy had her vision, she certainly seemed to think there were > hundreds or thousands of Ubervamps. Sure, she could have been wrong, > but you'd think a slayer would know these kind of things. How could she know? Buffy herself looks perfectly normal compared to other humans, but it turns out she's not. Based on what we've seen in a number of episodes, I know something about that first Ubervamp is different than the ones that followed. So we can either decide that the first one was actually more powerful, or we can blame the writers. I prefer to go with what I see. The first one was hard to kill, the rest, not so much. Everything I wrote above is observation, if you want to know why that first Ubervamp was more powerful, let's take a walk into fanwank land. If I had a whole army of Vamps that weren't really all that powerful against a Slayer and their only real advantage were the numbers, it might help to bring out the most powerful one first and let the scoobies believe they were all like that. If I recall, when Buffy killed that Ubervamp, the First was kind of ticked as if he needed that particular one and not one of the millions waiting below. That was the only one that was hard to kill wasn't it? The other three that appeared weren't that big a deal any more than the ones in the final battle. To me looked like it was all an intimidation ploy by the First. -- Rick S. Calgary, Alberta rick-sam@shaw.ca

2003-05-20 22:16:10-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (William George Ferguson <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com>)


On Tue, 20 May 2003 06:59:21 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >Don Sample wrote: >> >> In article <3EC99DB7.8B6E6AD9@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >> >> > Growltiger wrote: >> > > >> > > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article >> > > <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... >> > > > Space: >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have >> > > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have >> > > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. >> > > > >> > > >> > > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and >> > > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. >> > > -- >> > > >> > That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that >> > wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill >> > Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were >> > using plain old wooden stakes. >> >> The first Ubie the First brought out was the best and brightest of the >> lot. The Ubie's strongest warrior, etc and so forth. The First >> wouldn't settle for anything less as its champion. It may have even >> gotten a power boost the way the First was giving Caleb a power boost. >> >> The ubies that they had to battle in _Chosen_ were just cannon fodder >> ubies. >> >An army of canon fodder isn't much of a threat. Review the Chinese Army attacks on American positions in the Korean Conflict. If you have a sufficient advantage in manpower, human wave assaults work even against vastly superior training, even against vastly superior weapons (it doesn't matter if you're killing 50 of them for every one of you, if there are a hundred of them for every one of you, you lose) That said, the 'civilians' upstairs weren't really killing job lots of ubies, most of their fighting was with Bringers. It was a Bringer that stabbed Wood and a Bringer that killed Anya. Probably the biggest ubie count upstairs was by Dawn, who fought smart. She let them engage Xander, then bushwhacked them. -- DAWN: ... and my sister is a vampire slayer, her best friend is a witch who went bonkers and tried to destroy the world, um, I actually used to be a little ball of energy until about two years ago when some monks changed the past and made me Buffy's sister and for some reason, a big klepto. My best friends are Leticia Jones, who moved to San Diego because this town is evil, and a floppy eared demon named Clem. (deleted scene from the shooting script of BtVS:Lessons)

2003-05-20 22:16:10-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (William George Ferguson <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com>)


On Tue, 20 May 2003 06:59:21 -0700, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >Don Sample wrote: >> >> In article <3EC99DB7.8B6E6AD9@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >> >> > Growltiger wrote: >> > > >> > > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Carmikl@rcn.com wrote in article >> > > <3EC8D79B.892859A2@rcn.com>... >> > > > Space: >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > ; >> > > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have >> > > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have >> > > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. >> > > > >> > > >> > > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and >> > > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. >> > > -- >> > > >> > That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that >> > wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill >> > Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were >> > using plain old wooden stakes. >> >> The first Ubie the First brought out was the best and brightest of the >> lot. The Ubie's strongest warrior, etc and so forth. The First >> wouldn't settle for anything less as its champion. It may have even >> gotten a power boost the way the First was giving Caleb a power boost. >> >> The ubies that they had to battle in _Chosen_ were just cannon fodder >> ubies. >> >An army of canon fodder isn't much of a threat. Review the Chinese Army attacks on American positions in the Korean Conflict. If you have a sufficient advantage in manpower, human wave assaults work even against vastly superior training, even against vastly superior weapons (it doesn't matter if you're killing 50 of them for every one of you, if there are a hundred of them for every one of you, you lose) That said, the 'civilians' upstairs weren't really killing job lots of ubies, most of their fighting was with Bringers. It was a Bringer that stabbed Wood and a Bringer that killed Anya. Probably the biggest ubie count upstairs was by Dawn, who fought smart. She let them engage Xander, then bushwhacked them. -- DAWN: ... and my sister is a vampire slayer, her best friend is a witch who went bonkers and tried to destroy the world, um, I actually used to be a little ball of energy until about two years ago when some monks changed the past and made me Buffy's sister and for some reason, a big klepto. My best friends are Leticia Jones, who moved to San Diego because this town is evil, and a floppy eared demon named Clem. (deleted scene from the shooting script of BtVS:Lessons)

2003-05-21 00:02:26-05:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Wayne Werne <wwerne@psci.net>)


> > > > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > > > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > > > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and > > > > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. > > > > -- > > > > > > > That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that > > > wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill > > > Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were > > > using plain old wooden stakes. > > > > The first Ubie the First brought out was the best and brightest of the > > lot. The Ubie's strongest warrior, etc and so forth. The First > > wouldn't settle for anything less as its champion. It may have even > > gotten a power boost the way the First was giving Caleb a power boost. > > > > The ubies that they had to battle in _Chosen_ were just cannon fodder > > ubies. > > > What a load of rubbish. > > This is just speculation & excuse making over one of the many glaring > plot inconsistencies in 'Chosen'. Point me to the place in a previous > episode where any of this was stated or even hinted at. > > Other insults to our intelligence in 'Chosen' were Buffy's > not-so-mortal injury, the lack of mourning for Anya and the release of > 100's or 1000's of new slayers. > > Of course with no Watchers Council to help & train these girls, I > would expect all of them to instinctively fight on the side of good. > None of them would be corrupted by their superpowers because slayers > never go bad... > > Hopefully we'll see a few slayers-gone-bad on Angel next season... > > I just got the feeling that Joss Whedon's heart wasn't really in it > with this episode, and that it should have been a 2-parter, but then > you can't really expect a single writer to come in at the end and fix > up most of the crap the other writers have been ladling up to us all > season. > > The 'So, whatever became of...' collection: > > * 'From Beneath you it devours'/The hellmouth has teeth > * Joyce's message to Dawn about Buffy not choosing her. > * The 1st's motivation & the loophole that allowed it to act (and > don't tell me it was so it could become solid & 'feel' things). > * the reason why Caleb didn't just blow up the Summers house (we'd > been led to believe The 1st was keeping Buffy alive for some reason). > * Where the hell did the 3 Ubie's who showed up after the explosion > come from? Never explained, never even mentioned. Was the hellmouth > leaking? > > H I'm glad there always seems to be someone who summarizes what I momentarily wonder about when I actually watch the show. I was most interested as to why that first upervamp was basically impossible to kill (also why it didn't finish Buffy off when it threw her through the wall), while the mere mortals seemed so able to kill multiple targets at one time in the finale. That whole concept seemed to really be inconsistent. But ditto on the last five "so, whatever became of ..." I remember questioning them as well.

2003-05-21 00:02:26-05:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Wayne Werne <wwerne@psci.net>)


> > > > > If Andrew and Anya can kill Ubies with a sword, then Buffy should have > > > > > had no problem killing Ubie in Showtime. In fact, The SITs should have > > > > > had no problem handling the three Ubies in the tunnel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, there was a considerable amount of training between "Showtime" and > > > > "Chosen." Perhaps practice made perfect. > > > > -- > > > > > > > That shouldn't make the SITs better now than Buffy was then, and that > > > wouldn't explain why mortals like Anya, Giles and Andrew could kill > > > Ubies with a sword. Seems like anyone can kill and Ubie. The SITs were > > > using plain old wooden stakes. > > > > The first Ubie the First brought out was the best and brightest of the > > lot. The Ubie's strongest warrior, etc and so forth. The First > > wouldn't settle for anything less as its champion. It may have even > > gotten a power boost the way the First was giving Caleb a power boost. > > > > The ubies that they had to battle in _Chosen_ were just cannon fodder > > ubies. > > > What a load of rubbish. > > This is just speculation & excuse making over one of the many glaring > plot inconsistencies in 'Chosen'. Point me to the place in a previous > episode where any of this was stated or even hinted at. > > Other insults to our intelligence in 'Chosen' were Buffy's > not-so-mortal injury, the lack of mourning for Anya and the release of > 100's or 1000's of new slayers. > > Of course with no Watchers Council to help & train these girls, I > would expect all of them to instinctively fight on the side of good. > None of them would be corrupted by their superpowers because slayers > never go bad... > > Hopefully we'll see a few slayers-gone-bad on Angel next season... > > I just got the feeling that Joss Whedon's heart wasn't really in it > with this episode, and that it should have been a 2-parter, but then > you can't really expect a single writer to come in at the end and fix > up most of the crap the other writers have been ladling up to us all > season. > > The 'So, whatever became of...' collection: > > * 'From Beneath you it devours'/The hellmouth has teeth > * Joyce's message to Dawn about Buffy not choosing her. > * The 1st's motivation & the loophole that allowed it to act (and > don't tell me it was so it could become solid & 'feel' things). > * the reason why Caleb didn't just blow up the Summers house (we'd > been led to believe The 1st was keeping Buffy alive for some reason). > * Where the hell did the 3 Ubie's who showed up after the explosion > come from? Never explained, never even mentioned. Was the hellmouth > leaking? > > H I'm glad there always seems to be someone who summarizes what I momentarily wonder about when I actually watch the show. I was most interested as to why that first upervamp was basically impossible to kill (also why it didn't finish Buffy off when it threw her through the wall), while the mere mortals seemed so able to kill multiple targets at one time in the finale. That whole concept seemed to really be inconsistent. But ditto on the last five "so, whatever became of ..." I remember questioning them as well.

2003-05-22 08:02:59-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (salmoneous@aol.com)


hbond@xoom.it (Smelsch) > What a load of rubbish. > > This is just speculation & excuse making over one of the many glaring > plot inconsistencies in 'Chosen'. Point me to the place in a previous > episode where any of this was stated or even hinted at. Actually, I think you have it exactly backwards. It has clearly been shown on screen that Ubie is more powerful than the rest of the First's army. Going all the way back to WttH, we've seen that vamps vary in type/strength/power. What hasn't been shown on screen is that the First's army is supposed to be the exact same time of creature as Ubie. What was never hinted at was that they were supposed to be as strong as Ubie. It seems to me that you are the one who has pulled an idea out of nowhere.

2003-05-22 08:02:59-07:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (salmoneous@aol.com)


hbond@xoom.it (Smelsch) > What a load of rubbish. > > This is just speculation & excuse making over one of the many glaring > plot inconsistencies in 'Chosen'. Point me to the place in a previous > episode where any of this was stated or even hinted at. Actually, I think you have it exactly backwards. It has clearly been shown on screen that Ubie is more powerful than the rest of the First's army. Going all the way back to WttH, we've seen that vamps vary in type/strength/power. What hasn't been shown on screen is that the First's army is supposed to be the exact same time of creature as Ubie. What was never hinted at was that they were supposed to be as strong as Ubie. It seems to me that you are the one who has pulled an idea out of nowhere.

2003-05-22 08:03:54+00:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net>)


On Tue, 20 May 2003 21:47:54 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: >How could she know? Buffy herself looks perfectly normal compared to >other humans, but it turns out she's not. She's the slayer for one. She's having visions. She certainly never let on that the other Ubies were different. >Based on what we've seen in a number of episodes, I know something >about that first Ubervamp is different than the ones that followed. So >we can either decide that the first one was actually more powerful, or >we can blame the writers. Blame the writers. The first Ubie was way too powerful and they didn't have a good explaination for why the rest were such wimps.

2003-05-22 08:03:54+00:00 - Re: So all Buffy needed was a sword (Chosen Wildfeed spoiler) - (Brian Henderson <B.L.Henderson@SPAMFREE.verizon.net>)


On Tue, 20 May 2003 21:47:54 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: >How could she know? Buffy herself looks perfectly normal compared to >other humans, but it turns out she's not. She's the slayer for one. She's having visions. She certainly never let on that the other Ubies were different. >Based on what we've seen in a number of episodes, I know something >about that first Ubervamp is different than the ones that followed. So >we can either decide that the first one was actually more powerful, or >we can blame the writers. Blame the writers. The first Ubie was way too powerful and they didn't have a good explaination for why the rest were such wimps.