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2002-12-26 11:40:37-08:00 - 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (gavalos@cctimes.com)


I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws in S6. Best of all, these aren't just some comments about the overall quality from Seasons 1 through 5. This has to do with the superior quality of the show in its 7th and final season -- and a season that proves TV shows can get better after they've been worse. Shockingly, BTVS-S7 may even challenge what I had been certain were the unapproachable heights of S3. But enough of my prattling, here are the good tidings: ***** 7. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (UPN): Another series on the rebound and back in form. It turns out what was missing last season was not so much a sense of humor as a sense of purpose. No such problem this season, as Buffy once again fights to save the world, and to keep her former high school intact. Along with its spin-off Angel, which is having an exceptional season of its own, Buffy remains TV's best developed and most entertaining fantasy. ***** Exit with a bang and leave 'em begging for more. That's the way performers should bow out. Let's hope Whedon learns the lesson of the Great Maleeni, and take a final curtain call with the throng leaping to its feet, tossing roses on the stage. What more can one ask from a hero's journey and a TV show's finale? -George

2002-12-26 11:40:37-08:00 - 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (gavalos@cctimes.com)


I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws in S6. Best of all, these aren't just some comments about the overall quality from Seasons 1 through 5. This has to do with the superior quality of the show in its 7th and final season -- and a season that proves TV shows can get better after they've been worse. Shockingly, BTVS-S7 may even challenge what I had been certain were the unapproachable heights of S3. But enough of my prattling, here are the good tidings: ***** 7. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (UPN): Another series on the rebound and back in form. It turns out what was missing last season was not so much a sense of humor as a sense of purpose. No such problem this season, as Buffy once again fights to save the world, and to keep her former high school intact. Along with its spin-off Angel, which is having an exceptional season of its own, Buffy remains TV's best developed and most entertaining fantasy. ***** Exit with a bang and leave 'em begging for more. That's the way performers should bow out. Let's hope Whedon learns the lesson of the Great Maleeni, and take a final curtain call with the throng leaping to its feet, tossing roses on the stage. What more can one ask from a hero's journey and a TV show's finale? -George

2002-12-26 18:44:17-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (gavalos@cctimes.com)


EGK <egk@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ou4n0vk8u7sqtqu15nhrmc6dj4vg5q2b8d@4ax.com>... > George Avalos wrote: > > > > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > > in S6. > > I think the "glee" is something in your own imagination. People may have > tried using critical reviews to justify their own opinions that season 6 > sucked ass but I sure didn't' see anyone particularly gleeful about it. > > In case you haven't noticed, many of the same people who lambasted season 6 > have been quite happy with season 7 so far. That sounds quite a bit like > Bianco. You've fallen behind the times with your preoccupation with > criticizing the criticism. You'd probably know from preoccupation... ***** From: EGK (egk@hotmail.com) Subject: USA Today says Buffy's problem is.... View this article only Newsgroups: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Date: 2002-09-08 02:02:29 PST Interesting article in USA Today about problems with some favorite shows and the critic's advice on how to fix them. 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' (UPN, Sept. 24) The problem: Great artistic ambition doesn't always make for great TV. In trying to examine the misery caused by being suddenly pulled out of childhood and thrust into adult responsibilities, the show hit the same depressing beats a few times too often. The fix: Less whining, more staking. The prognosis: I have high hopes. Creator Joss Whedon has acknowledged every problem and promised a solution, and you can't ask for more than that. The only question is whether Whedon, who is launching Fox's Firefly and keeping a hand in Angel, has enough time to keep his promises. http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/2002-09-03-showfix_x.htm ***** -George

2002-12-26 18:44:17-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (gavalos@cctimes.com)


EGK <egk@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ou4n0vk8u7sqtqu15nhrmc6dj4vg5q2b8d@4ax.com>... > George Avalos wrote: > > > > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > > in S6. > > I think the "glee" is something in your own imagination. People may have > tried using critical reviews to justify their own opinions that season 6 > sucked ass but I sure didn't' see anyone particularly gleeful about it. > > In case you haven't noticed, many of the same people who lambasted season 6 > have been quite happy with season 7 so far. That sounds quite a bit like > Bianco. You've fallen behind the times with your preoccupation with > criticizing the criticism. You'd probably know from preoccupation... ***** From: EGK (egk@hotmail.com) Subject: USA Today says Buffy's problem is.... View this article only Newsgroups: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Date: 2002-09-08 02:02:29 PST Interesting article in USA Today about problems with some favorite shows and the critic's advice on how to fix them. 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' (UPN, Sept. 24) The problem: Great artistic ambition doesn't always make for great TV. In trying to examine the misery caused by being suddenly pulled out of childhood and thrust into adult responsibilities, the show hit the same depressing beats a few times too often. The fix: Less whining, more staking. The prognosis: I have high hopes. Creator Joss Whedon has acknowledged every problem and promised a solution, and you can't ask for more than that. The only question is whether Whedon, who is launching Fox's Firefly and keeping a hand in Angel, has enough time to keep his promises. http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/2002-09-03-showfix_x.htm ***** -George

2002-12-26 18:49:08-05:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (EGK <egk@hotmail.com>)


George Avalos wrote: > > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > in S6. I think the "glee" is something in your own imagination. People may have tried using critical reviews to justify their own opinions that season 6 sucked ass but I sure didn't' see anyone particularly gleeful about it. In case you haven't noticed, many of the same people who lambasted season 6 have been quite happy with season 7 so far. That sounds quite a bit like Bianco. You've fallen behind the times with your preoccupation with criticizing the criticism. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

2002-12-26 18:49:08-05:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (EGK <egk@hotmail.com>)


George Avalos wrote: > > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > in S6. I think the "glee" is something in your own imagination. People may have tried using critical reviews to justify their own opinions that season 6 sucked ass but I sure didn't' see anyone particularly gleeful about it. In case you haven't noticed, many of the same people who lambasted season 6 have been quite happy with season 7 so far. That sounds quite a bit like Bianco. You've fallen behind the times with your preoccupation with criticizing the criticism. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

2002-12-26 18:53:45-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (gavalos@cctimes.com)


Richard Edwards <riche@pobox.com> wrote in message news:<3E0B7C75.A46A345F@pobox.com>... > George Avalos wrote: > > > > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > > in S6. > > Doesn't dismay me. Season 7 is very good, so far. Season 6 sucks and > deserved to be lambasted. It's very odd when critics manage to get > something right. S6 definitely had its problems. Not to be too repetitive, here's my main point: The reports of BTVS's creative demise were premature, at least based on what's happened so far in S7. Even some professional critics that had supposedly jumped off the BTVS bandwagon have come to realize that it's possible for shows that were deemed by some to have weakened can subsequently make a comeback, big time. We'll see how it ends to give a final judgement about S7, but not every show crashes and burns after two seasons. -George

2002-12-26 18:53:45-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (gavalos@cctimes.com)


Richard Edwards <riche@pobox.com> wrote in message news:<3E0B7C75.A46A345F@pobox.com>... > George Avalos wrote: > > > > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > > in S6. > > Doesn't dismay me. Season 7 is very good, so far. Season 6 sucks and > deserved to be lambasted. It's very odd when critics manage to get > something right. S6 definitely had its problems. Not to be too repetitive, here's my main point: The reports of BTVS's creative demise were premature, at least based on what's happened so far in S7. Even some professional critics that had supposedly jumped off the BTVS bandwagon have come to realize that it's possible for shows that were deemed by some to have weakened can subsequently make a comeback, big time. We'll see how it ends to give a final judgement about S7, but not every show crashes and burns after two seasons. -George

2002-12-26 22:02:11+00:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (Richard Edwards <riche@pobox.com>)


George Avalos wrote: > > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > in S6. Doesn't dismay me. Season 7 is very good, so far. Season 6 sucks and deserved to be lambasted. It's very odd when critics manage to get something right. Later, Richard

2002-12-26 22:02:11+00:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (Richard Edwards <riche@pobox.com>)


George Avalos wrote: > > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > in S6. Doesn't dismay me. Season 7 is very good, so far. Season 6 sucks and deserved to be lambasted. It's very odd when critics manage to get something right. Later, Richard

2002-12-26 22:06:57-05:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (EGK <egk@hotmail.com>)


On 26 Dec 2002 18:44:17 -0800, gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: >EGK <egk@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ou4n0vk8u7sqtqu15nhrmc6dj4vg5q2b8d@4ax.com>... >> George Avalos wrote: >> > >> > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, >> > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, >> > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best >> > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in >> > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws >> > in S6. >> >> I think the "glee" is something in your own imagination. People may have >> tried using critical reviews to justify their own opinions that season 6 >> sucked ass but I sure didn't' see anyone particularly gleeful about it. >> >> In case you haven't noticed, many of the same people who lambasted season 6 >> have been quite happy with season 7 so far. That sounds quite a bit like >> Bianco. You've fallen behind the times with your preoccupation with >> criticizing the criticism. > >You'd probably know from preoccupation... And your point is? What does posting a link about a news article have to do with a preoccupation? Wasn't that an on topic post to this newsgroup? I believe you and other people had posted that you wanted evidence of critics jumping off the Buffy bandwagon. I posted a link with little comment. I take part in a lot of discussions here. You used to. Most all your posts anymore are simply think veiled digs at anyone who dares to criticize anything about the show. >***** >From: EGK (egk@hotmail.com) >Subject: USA Today says Buffy's problem is.... > > >View this article only >Newsgroups: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer >Date: 2002-09-08 02:02:29 PST > > >Interesting article in USA Today about problems with some favorite shows and >the critic's advice on how to fix them. > > >'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' (UPN, Sept. 24) > >The problem: Great artistic ambition doesn't always make for great TV. In >trying to examine the misery caused by being suddenly pulled out of >childhood and thrust into adult responsibilities, the show hit the same >depressing beats a few times too often. >The fix: Less whining, more staking. >The prognosis: I have high hopes. Creator Joss Whedon has acknowledged every >problem and promised a solution, and you can't ask for more than that. The >only question is whether Whedon, who is launching Fox's Firefly and keeping >a hand in Angel, has enough time to keep his promises. > >http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/2002-09-03-showfix_x.htm > >***** > >-George ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

2002-12-26 22:06:57-05:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (EGK <egk@hotmail.com>)


On 26 Dec 2002 18:44:17 -0800, gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: >EGK <egk@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ou4n0vk8u7sqtqu15nhrmc6dj4vg5q2b8d@4ax.com>... >> George Avalos wrote: >> > >> > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, >> > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, >> > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best >> > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in >> > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws >> > in S6. >> >> I think the "glee" is something in your own imagination. People may have >> tried using critical reviews to justify their own opinions that season 6 >> sucked ass but I sure didn't' see anyone particularly gleeful about it. >> >> In case you haven't noticed, many of the same people who lambasted season 6 >> have been quite happy with season 7 so far. That sounds quite a bit like >> Bianco. You've fallen behind the times with your preoccupation with >> criticizing the criticism. > >You'd probably know from preoccupation... And your point is? What does posting a link about a news article have to do with a preoccupation? Wasn't that an on topic post to this newsgroup? I believe you and other people had posted that you wanted evidence of critics jumping off the Buffy bandwagon. I posted a link with little comment. I take part in a lot of discussions here. You used to. Most all your posts anymore are simply think veiled digs at anyone who dares to criticize anything about the show. >***** >From: EGK (egk@hotmail.com) >Subject: USA Today says Buffy's problem is.... > > >View this article only >Newsgroups: alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer >Date: 2002-09-08 02:02:29 PST > > >Interesting article in USA Today about problems with some favorite shows and >the critic's advice on how to fix them. > > >'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' (UPN, Sept. 24) > >The problem: Great artistic ambition doesn't always make for great TV. In >trying to examine the misery caused by being suddenly pulled out of >childhood and thrust into adult responsibilities, the show hit the same >depressing beats a few times too often. >The fix: Less whining, more staking. >The prognosis: I have high hopes. Creator Joss Whedon has acknowledged every >problem and promised a solution, and you can't ask for more than that. The >only question is whether Whedon, who is launching Fox's Firefly and keeping >a hand in Angel, has enough time to keep his promises. > >http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/2002-09-03-showfix_x.htm > >***** > >-George ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

2002-12-27 08:03:22+00:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (Richard Edwards <riche@pobox.com>)


George Avalos wrote: > S6 definitely had its problems. > > Not to be too repetitive, here's my main point: The reports of BTVS's > creative demise were premature, at least based on what's happened so > far in S7. OK, I'll buy that. I've always been annoyed when people claim a show is dead when it has an off year. I'd really like to smack that guy who made up the stupid "jump the shark" phrase. Later, Richard

2002-12-27 08:03:22+00:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (Richard Edwards <riche@pobox.com>)


George Avalos wrote: > S6 definitely had its problems. > > Not to be too repetitive, here's my main point: The reports of BTVS's > creative demise were premature, at least based on what's happened so > far in S7. OK, I'll buy that. I've always been annoyed when people claim a show is dead when it has an off year. I'd really like to smack that guy who made up the stupid "jump the shark" phrase. Later, Richard

2002-12-27 09:10:54-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (Thonolan3@msn.com)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote in message news:<da6729e4.0212261140.7db4e75c@posting.google.com>... > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > in S6. > > Best of all, these aren't just some comments about the overall quality > from Seasons 1 through 5. This has to do with the superior quality of > the show in its 7th and final season -- and a season that proves TV > shows can get better after they've been worse. Shockingly, BTVS-S7 may > even challenge what I had been certain were the unapproachable heights > of S3. > > But enough of my prattling, here are the good tidings: > > ***** > > 7. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (UPN): Another series on the rebound and > back in form. It turns out what was missing last season was not so > much a sense of humor as a sense of purpose. No such problem this > season, as Buffy once again fights to save the world, and to keep her > former high school intact. Along with its spin-off Angel, which is > having an exceptional season of its own, Buffy remains TV's best > developed and most entertaining fantasy. > > ***** > > Exit with a bang and leave 'em begging for more. That's the way > performers should bow out. Let's hope Whedon learns the lesson of the > Great Maleeni, and take a final curtain call with the throng leaping > to its feet, tossing roses on the stage. > > What more can one ask from a hero's journey and a TV show's finale? > > -George Entertainment Weekly also listed it as the 8th best show of the year, and TV Guide put in the top 10 as well. In fact, all three of these publications listed Buffy as one of the best shows on tv last year, as well. They've been doing it for several years.

2002-12-27 09:10:54-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (Thonolan3@msn.com)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote in message news:<da6729e4.0212261140.7db4e75c@posting.google.com>... > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > in S6. > > Best of all, these aren't just some comments about the overall quality > from Seasons 1 through 5. This has to do with the superior quality of > the show in its 7th and final season -- and a season that proves TV > shows can get better after they've been worse. Shockingly, BTVS-S7 may > even challenge what I had been certain were the unapproachable heights > of S3. > > But enough of my prattling, here are the good tidings: > > ***** > > 7. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (UPN): Another series on the rebound and > back in form. It turns out what was missing last season was not so > much a sense of humor as a sense of purpose. No such problem this > season, as Buffy once again fights to save the world, and to keep her > former high school intact. Along with its spin-off Angel, which is > having an exceptional season of its own, Buffy remains TV's best > developed and most entertaining fantasy. > > ***** > > Exit with a bang and leave 'em begging for more. That's the way > performers should bow out. Let's hope Whedon learns the lesson of the > Great Maleeni, and take a final curtain call with the throng leaping > to its feet, tossing roses on the stage. > > What more can one ask from a hero's journey and a TV show's finale? > > -George Entertainment Weekly also listed it as the 8th best show of the year, and TV Guide put in the top 10 as well. In fact, all three of these publications listed Buffy as one of the best shows on tv last year, as well. They've been doing it for several years.

2002-12-27 09:19:19-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (kenm47@ix.netcom.com)


EGK <egk@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ou4n0vk8u7sqtqu15nhrmc6dj4vg5q2b8d@4ax.com>... > George Avalos wrote: > > > > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > > in S6. > > I think the "glee" is something in your own imagination. People may have > tried using critical reviews to justify their own opinions that season 6 > sucked ass but I sure didn't' see anyone particularly gleeful about it. > > In case you haven't noticed, many of the same people who lambasted season 6 > have been quite happy with season 7 so far. That sounds quite a bit like > Bianco. You've fallen behind the times with your preoccupation with > criticizing the criticism. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people > didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" > - (Calvin and Hobbes) As one of those "same people" that had almost nothing kind to say about Season 6, let me just say this rerun hell break is sadly getting me to realize that so far this season 7 is inconsistent, continuity makes little sense in many ways, the B/S thing still lurks, etc. Not feeling confidant that we're going out with a bang so to speak. Still very troubled that while Angel was actually mentioned this season, that there is still no effort by Buffy's Battalion Against Evil ("BBAE") to contact the folks in LA for help and no mention of the LA rain of fire even by the weathermen in Sunnydale it seems. Not believing ME can sew it up over the next twelve BTVS eps, with or without Faith. Still hoping, just having lowered expectations. Ken

2002-12-27 09:19:19-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (kenm47@ix.netcom.com)


EGK <egk@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ou4n0vk8u7sqtqu15nhrmc6dj4vg5q2b8d@4ax.com>... > George Avalos wrote: > > > > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > > in S6. > > I think the "glee" is something in your own imagination. People may have > tried using critical reviews to justify their own opinions that season 6 > sucked ass but I sure didn't' see anyone particularly gleeful about it. > > In case you haven't noticed, many of the same people who lambasted season 6 > have been quite happy with season 7 so far. That sounds quite a bit like > Bianco. You've fallen behind the times with your preoccupation with > criticizing the criticism. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people > didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" > - (Calvin and Hobbes) As one of those "same people" that had almost nothing kind to say about Season 6, let me just say this rerun hell break is sadly getting me to realize that so far this season 7 is inconsistent, continuity makes little sense in many ways, the B/S thing still lurks, etc. Not feeling confidant that we're going out with a bang so to speak. Still very troubled that while Angel was actually mentioned this season, that there is still no effort by Buffy's Battalion Against Evil ("BBAE") to contact the folks in LA for help and no mention of the LA rain of fire even by the weathermen in Sunnydale it seems. Not believing ME can sew it up over the next twelve BTVS eps, with or without Faith. Still hoping, just having lowered expectations. Ken

2002-12-27 14:08:37-05:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (EGK <egk@hotmail.com>)


On 27 Dec 2002 09:19:19 -0800, kenm47@ix.netcom.com (kenm47) wrote: >EGK <egk@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ou4n0vk8u7sqtqu15nhrmc6dj4vg5q2b8d@4ax.com>... >> I think the "glee" is something in your own imagination. People may have >> tried using critical reviews to justify their own opinions that season 6 >> sucked ass but I sure didn't' see anyone particularly gleeful about it. >> >> In case you haven't noticed, many of the same people who lambasted season 6 >> have been quite happy with season 7 so far. That sounds quite a bit like >> Bianco. You've fallen behind the times with your preoccupation with >> criticizing the criticism. >As one of those "same people" that had almost nothing kind to say >about Season 6, let me just say this rerun hell break is sadly getting >me to realize that so far this season 7 is inconsistent, continuity >makes little sense in many ways, the B/S thing still lurks, etc. I have the same concerns but have been liking most of this season so far. I'm sure a lot has to do with comparing it to last. The season as a whole can still go either way for me. The main arc has to hang together. One thing i've noticed is the extreme serialization of the show continues. I really think the HS years had a much better mix of stand alone episodes and those that were central to the arc. There were interesting things going on besides the main arcs. This year is rapidly becoming like season 5 in that it may end up seeming contrived to keep it going for so long. The Spike torture is already like that. The point in season 5 that cemented that was near the end when Glory finally figured out all she had to do was go after Buffy's friends one at a time. I guess no one ever said gods were quick on the uptake. :) The B/S thing kind of hangs over the season like an albatross for me but a lot of people like it. >Not feeling confidant that we're going out with a bang so to speak. >Still very troubled that while Angel was actually mentioned this >season, that there is still no effort by Buffy's Battalion Against >Evil ("BBAE") to contact the folks in LA for help and no mention of >the LA rain of fire even by the weathermen in Sunnydale it seems. > >Not believing ME can sew it up over the next twelve BTVS eps, with or >without Faith. > >Still hoping, just having lowered expectations. My expectations have been lowered considerably since season 4. This season is really the first one I think was better then the last since season 3. I'd rank them like this for best to worst. 3, 2, 1, 4, 5, 6. Seasons 4 and 5 are pretty close but I give 4 the edge after being able to watch it straight through on FX without the long breaks.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

2002-12-27 14:08:37-05:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (EGK <egk@hotmail.com>)


On 27 Dec 2002 09:19:19 -0800, kenm47@ix.netcom.com (kenm47) wrote: >EGK <egk@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ou4n0vk8u7sqtqu15nhrmc6dj4vg5q2b8d@4ax.com>... >> I think the "glee" is something in your own imagination. People may have >> tried using critical reviews to justify their own opinions that season 6 >> sucked ass but I sure didn't' see anyone particularly gleeful about it. >> >> In case you haven't noticed, many of the same people who lambasted season 6 >> have been quite happy with season 7 so far. That sounds quite a bit like >> Bianco. You've fallen behind the times with your preoccupation with >> criticizing the criticism. >As one of those "same people" that had almost nothing kind to say >about Season 6, let me just say this rerun hell break is sadly getting >me to realize that so far this season 7 is inconsistent, continuity >makes little sense in many ways, the B/S thing still lurks, etc. I have the same concerns but have been liking most of this season so far. I'm sure a lot has to do with comparing it to last. The season as a whole can still go either way for me. The main arc has to hang together. One thing i've noticed is the extreme serialization of the show continues. I really think the HS years had a much better mix of stand alone episodes and those that were central to the arc. There were interesting things going on besides the main arcs. This year is rapidly becoming like season 5 in that it may end up seeming contrived to keep it going for so long. The Spike torture is already like that. The point in season 5 that cemented that was near the end when Glory finally figured out all she had to do was go after Buffy's friends one at a time. I guess no one ever said gods were quick on the uptake. :) The B/S thing kind of hangs over the season like an albatross for me but a lot of people like it. >Not feeling confidant that we're going out with a bang so to speak. >Still very troubled that while Angel was actually mentioned this >season, that there is still no effort by Buffy's Battalion Against >Evil ("BBAE") to contact the folks in LA for help and no mention of >the LA rain of fire even by the weathermen in Sunnydale it seems. > >Not believing ME can sew it up over the next twelve BTVS eps, with or >without Faith. > >Still hoping, just having lowered expectations. My expectations have been lowered considerably since season 4. This season is really the first one I think was better then the last since season 3. I'd rank them like this for best to worst. 3, 2, 1, 4, 5, 6. Seasons 4 and 5 are pretty close but I give 4 the edge after being able to watch it straight through on FX without the long breaks.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

2002-12-27 18:18:10-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (gavalos@cctimes.com)


kenm47@ix.netcom.com (kenm47) wrote in >and no mention of the LA rain of fire even by the weathermen in Sunnydale it seems. The big problem is the turnover rate among weathermen at KSDL-TV, especially after the guy who failed to predict the cold front on Dec. 25, 1998 vanished mysteriously. They've got the sports guy trying to do forecasts and it's just not working out for the TV station. -George

2002-12-27 18:18:10-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (gavalos@cctimes.com)


kenm47@ix.netcom.com (kenm47) wrote in >and no mention of the LA rain of fire even by the weathermen in Sunnydale it seems. The big problem is the turnover rate among weathermen at KSDL-TV, especially after the guy who failed to predict the cold front on Dec. 25, 1998 vanished mysteriously. They've got the sports guy trying to do forecasts and it's just not working out for the TV station. -George

2002-12-27 20:43:39+00:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (benvarkent@aol.com)


>I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in >> fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws >> in S6. What I find interesting is that more critics, at least that I have seen, seem to be acknowledging the flaws of S6 now than they did at the time or over the summer. It's as though the 27% ratings drop gave them permision to say "oh, wait--maybe everything Buffy isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread...But don't worry, S7 is still really, really good." Or like a reverse version of the rule that everything looks better in hindsight--which makes me wonder how folks will see S7 in a year or two. >> Best of all, these aren't just some comments about the overall quality >> from Seasons 1 through 5. This has to do with the superior quality of >> the show in its 7th and final season -- and a season that proves TV >> shows can get better after they've been worse. You're putting a lot of weight on one article, aren't you? I wish The Futon Critic would pull together that "Rotten Tomatoes" style section they were talking about a while back so we could see in one go what the balance of the TV reviews are. Till then, this doesn't really "prove" anything except that some critics like S7, and so do you. Big whoop. Some critics don't like S7, and niether do I. Big whoop. >> Exit with a bang and leave 'em begging for more. That's the way >> performers should bow out. Yeah, that would've been great, wouldn't it? Unfortunately, I see it more as exit with bang, leave 'em begging for more...then go back and give 'em more, stink up the joint, and spend your last act straining to bury people's memories of your botched encore. Ben Varkentine "Thanks for being a smart-arse"-- Keith Gow Read my film, music and book reviews at http://ink19.com/ (new) & http://popmatters.com/ (archival)

2002-12-27 20:43:39+00:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (benvarkent@aol.com)


>I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in >> fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws >> in S6. What I find interesting is that more critics, at least that I have seen, seem to be acknowledging the flaws of S6 now than they did at the time or over the summer. It's as though the 27% ratings drop gave them permision to say "oh, wait--maybe everything Buffy isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread...But don't worry, S7 is still really, really good." Or like a reverse version of the rule that everything looks better in hindsight--which makes me wonder how folks will see S7 in a year or two. >> Best of all, these aren't just some comments about the overall quality >> from Seasons 1 through 5. This has to do with the superior quality of >> the show in its 7th and final season -- and a season that proves TV >> shows can get better after they've been worse. You're putting a lot of weight on one article, aren't you? I wish The Futon Critic would pull together that "Rotten Tomatoes" style section they were talking about a while back so we could see in one go what the balance of the TV reviews are. Till then, this doesn't really "prove" anything except that some critics like S7, and so do you. Big whoop. Some critics don't like S7, and niether do I. Big whoop. >> Exit with a bang and leave 'em begging for more. That's the way >> performers should bow out. Yeah, that would've been great, wouldn't it? Unfortunately, I see it more as exit with bang, leave 'em begging for more...then go back and give 'em more, stink up the joint, and spend your last act straining to bury people's memories of your botched encore. Ben Varkentine "Thanks for being a smart-arse"-- Keith Gow Read my film, music and book reviews at http://ink19.com/ (new) & http://popmatters.com/ (archival)

2002-12-27 22:49:02-05:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (KenM47 <KenM47@ix.netcom.com>)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: >kenm47@ix.netcom.com (kenm47) wrote in > >>and no mention of the LA rain of fire even by the weathermen in >Sunnydale it seems. > >The big problem is the turnover rate among weathermen at KSDL-TV, >especially after the guy who failed to predict the cold front on Dec. >25, 1998 vanished mysteriously. They've got the sports guy trying to >do forecasts and it's just not working out for the TV station. > >-George Made me chuckle George. Thanks. Ken

2002-12-27 22:49:02-05:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (KenM47 <KenM47@ix.netcom.com>)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: >kenm47@ix.netcom.com (kenm47) wrote in > >>and no mention of the LA rain of fire even by the weathermen in >Sunnydale it seems. > >The big problem is the turnover rate among weathermen at KSDL-TV, >especially after the guy who failed to predict the cold front on Dec. >25, 1998 vanished mysteriously. They've got the sports guy trying to >do forecasts and it's just not working out for the TV station. > >-George Made me chuckle George. Thanks. Ken

2002-12-28 01:05:37-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (igs622001@yahoo.com)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote in message news:<da6729e4.0212261140.7db4e75c@posting.google.com>... > Exit with a bang and leave 'em begging for more. That's the way > performers should bow out. Let's hope Whedon learns the lesson of the > Great Maleeni, and take a final curtain call with the throng leaping > to its feet, tossing roses on the stage. > > What more can one ask from a hero's journey and a TV show's finale? Not too sound too pessimistic, but there's still plenty of time for season 7 to join season 6 in the tank. This time last year, who could have predicted the horrors of Spuffy or the magic addiction storyline? Much as I've enjoyed season 7 so far, there are some clouds on the horizon. The preoccupation with Spike which wreaked so much havoc with the latter part of season 6 appears to be oozing its way back into the series. I am hopeful that it won't do as much damage as it did last season, but I am nonetheless concerned.

2002-12-28 01:05:37-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (igs622001@yahoo.com)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote in message news:<da6729e4.0212261140.7db4e75c@posting.google.com>... > Exit with a bang and leave 'em begging for more. That's the way > performers should bow out. Let's hope Whedon learns the lesson of the > Great Maleeni, and take a final curtain call with the throng leaping > to its feet, tossing roses on the stage. > > What more can one ask from a hero's journey and a TV show's finale? Not too sound too pessimistic, but there's still plenty of time for season 7 to join season 6 in the tank. This time last year, who could have predicted the horrors of Spuffy or the magic addiction storyline? Much as I've enjoyed season 7 so far, there are some clouds on the horizon. The preoccupation with Spike which wreaked so much havoc with the latter part of season 6 appears to be oozing its way back into the series. I am hopeful that it won't do as much damage as it did last season, but I am nonetheless concerned.

2002-12-28 07:13:59-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (himiko@animail.net)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote in message news:<da6729e4.0212261140.7db4e75c@posting.google.com>... > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > in S6. > > Best of all, these aren't just some comments about the overall quality > from Seasons 1 through 5. This has to do with the superior quality of > the show in its 7th and final season -- and a season that proves TV > shows can get better after they've been worse. Shockingly, BTVS-S7 may > even challenge what I had been certain were the unapproachable heights > of S3. > > But enough of my prattling, here are the good tidings: > > ***** > > 7. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (UPN): Another series on the rebound and > back in form. It turns out what was missing last season was not so > much a sense of humor as a sense of purpose. No such problem this > season, as Buffy once again fights to save the world, and to keep her > former high school intact. Along with its spin-off Angel, which is > having an exceptional season of its own, Buffy remains TV's best > developed and most entertaining fantasy. > > ***** > > Exit with a bang and leave 'em begging for more. That's the way > performers should bow out. Let's hope Whedon learns the lesson of the > Great Maleeni, and take a final curtain call with the throng leaping > to its feet, tossing roses on the stage. > > What more can one ask from a hero's journey and a TV show's finale? > > -George The Calgary Sun is also chiming in although they've got their seasons confused: 4. BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER: Criminally underrated, this series rebounded from its darkest year by resurrecting not its star, but its sense of humour. That's no diss to the Buffster, whose fifth season concluded with Willow's dalliance with the dark side. Odds are this season will mark the end for Joss Whedon's spectacularly-entertaining fantasy -- if so, it's going out on a creative high. It also receives bonus points for having the best spinoff on television, Angel. That means you Law & Order and CSI. http://www.canoe.ca/Television/dec28_picks-sun.html himiko

2002-12-28 07:13:59-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (himiko@animail.net)


gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote in message news:<da6729e4.0212261140.7db4e75c@posting.google.com>... > I recall some glee in recent months about critics lambasting BTVS, > including, IIRC, words of disappointment from USA Today. On 12-22-02, > USA Today sang a far more favorable tune, listing BTVS as the 7th best > show of 2002. I wonder whether the reversal will dismay some in > fandom, especially since this is from a critic, Bianco, who saw flaws > in S6. > > Best of all, these aren't just some comments about the overall quality > from Seasons 1 through 5. This has to do with the superior quality of > the show in its 7th and final season -- and a season that proves TV > shows can get better after they've been worse. Shockingly, BTVS-S7 may > even challenge what I had been certain were the unapproachable heights > of S3. > > But enough of my prattling, here are the good tidings: > > ***** > > 7. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (UPN): Another series on the rebound and > back in form. It turns out what was missing last season was not so > much a sense of humor as a sense of purpose. No such problem this > season, as Buffy once again fights to save the world, and to keep her > former high school intact. Along with its spin-off Angel, which is > having an exceptional season of its own, Buffy remains TV's best > developed and most entertaining fantasy. > > ***** > > Exit with a bang and leave 'em begging for more. That's the way > performers should bow out. Let's hope Whedon learns the lesson of the > Great Maleeni, and take a final curtain call with the throng leaping > to its feet, tossing roses on the stage. > > What more can one ask from a hero's journey and a TV show's finale? > > -George The Calgary Sun is also chiming in although they've got their seasons confused: 4. BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER: Criminally underrated, this series rebounded from its darkest year by resurrecting not its star, but its sense of humour. That's no diss to the Buffster, whose fifth season concluded with Willow's dalliance with the dark side. Odds are this season will mark the end for Joss Whedon's spectacularly-entertaining fantasy -- if so, it's going out on a creative high. It also receives bonus points for having the best spinoff on television, Angel. That means you Law & Order and CSI. http://www.canoe.ca/Television/dec28_picks-sun.html himiko

2002-12-30 21:51:37-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (George Avalos <gavalos@mindspring.com>)


"KenM47" <KenM47@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:po7q0v8a5hk5d32c5t11ofgcivedloujqk@4ax.com... > gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: > > >kenm47@ix.netcom.com (kenm47) wrote in > > > >>and no mention of the LA rain of fire even by the weathermen in > >Sunnydale it seems. > > > >The big problem is the turnover rate among weathermen at KSDL-TV, > >especially after the guy who failed to predict the cold front on Dec. > >25, 1998 vanished mysteriously. They've got the sports guy trying to > >do forecasts and it's just not working out for the TV station. > > > >-George > > > Made me chuckle George. Thanks. Anytime. We may disagree mucho, but last time I checked, we're all human beings behind those computer screens. (Or at least sentient beings, this being the Hellmouth and all) -George

2002-12-30 21:51:37-08:00 - Re: 7th BTVS - Oh, those critics - (George Avalos <gavalos@mindspring.com>)


"KenM47" <KenM47@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:po7q0v8a5hk5d32c5t11ofgcivedloujqk@4ax.com... > gavalos@cctimes.com (George Avalos) wrote: > > >kenm47@ix.netcom.com (kenm47) wrote in > > > >>and no mention of the LA rain of fire even by the weathermen in > >Sunnydale it seems. > > > >The big problem is the turnover rate among weathermen at KSDL-TV, > >especially after the guy who failed to predict the cold front on Dec. > >25, 1998 vanished mysteriously. They've got the sports guy trying to > >do forecasts and it's just not working out for the TV station. > > > >-George > > > Made me chuckle George. Thanks. Anytime. We may disagree mucho, but last time I checked, we're all human beings behind those computer screens. (Or at least sentient beings, this being the Hellmouth and all) -George