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2003-03-02 07:04:04-08:00 - "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (zzzzara@my-deja.com)


1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in "Lessons", or have I missed something?

2003-03-02 07:04:04-08:00 - "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (zzzzara@my-deja.com)


1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in "Lessons", or have I missed something?

2003-03-02 10:20:44+00:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (dunce@nomail.com)


On 2 Mar 2003 07:04:04 -0800, zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote: >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 > >do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in >"Lessons", or have I missed something? The three leading candidates are : Wood, Spike, and the FE. Wood could have created the situation in order to "convince" Buffy to accept the job of counselor that he was about to offer. He knew that Buffy was the Slayer beforehand and the spirits never tried to actually hurt anyone other than the Slayer. Kit and Carlos could have been just caught in the crossfire. Spike could have created the situation in order to arrange a meeting with Buffy. He could have been too ashamed of himself to approach her directly so he could have used the talisman to bring her to him. Again, the spirits seemed to be focused exclusively on Buffy and Dawn. The spirits herded Buffy and Dawn into the basement and kept them there until Buffy met Spike. The spirits never actually hurt anyone even when they tried. Spike also displayed knowledge of the spirits when he told her about the talisman. The FE could have had one of it's underlings create that situation in order to manipulate Buffy into accepting Wood's job offer. When it confronted Spike in the basement at the end it went on about how everything was now in place. Since the writers have just abandoned the whole storyline it's up to us to fanwank whichever story we want. Personally, I'm leaning towards Spike being the culprit. The circumstancial evidence supports this and it would be fun to see Buffy's reaction to finding out that her soulboy put her sister in danger.

2003-03-02 10:20:44+00:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (dunce@nomail.com)


On 2 Mar 2003 07:04:04 -0800, zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote: >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 > >do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in >"Lessons", or have I missed something? The three leading candidates are : Wood, Spike, and the FE. Wood could have created the situation in order to "convince" Buffy to accept the job of counselor that he was about to offer. He knew that Buffy was the Slayer beforehand and the spirits never tried to actually hurt anyone other than the Slayer. Kit and Carlos could have been just caught in the crossfire. Spike could have created the situation in order to arrange a meeting with Buffy. He could have been too ashamed of himself to approach her directly so he could have used the talisman to bring her to him. Again, the spirits seemed to be focused exclusively on Buffy and Dawn. The spirits herded Buffy and Dawn into the basement and kept them there until Buffy met Spike. The spirits never actually hurt anyone even when they tried. Spike also displayed knowledge of the spirits when he told her about the talisman. The FE could have had one of it's underlings create that situation in order to manipulate Buffy into accepting Wood's job offer. When it confronted Spike in the basement at the end it went on about how everything was now in place. Since the writers have just abandoned the whole storyline it's up to us to fanwank whichever story we want. Personally, I'm leaning towards Spike being the culprit. The circumstancial evidence supports this and it would be fun to see Buffy's reaction to finding out that her soulboy put her sister in danger.

2003-03-02 10:24:58-05:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On 2 Mar 2003 07:04:04 -0800, zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote: >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 > >do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in >"Lessons", or have I missed something? Nah. I don't think they ever did but you're not supposed to notice or care about such little details. It's not the story the writers ("we are as gods") want to tell. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-03-02 10:24:58-05:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On 2 Mar 2003 07:04:04 -0800, zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote: >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 > >do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in >"Lessons", or have I missed something? Nah. I don't think they ever did but you're not supposed to notice or care about such little details. It's not the story the writers ("we are as gods") want to tell. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-03-02 14:02:33-06:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net>)


EGK wrote: > On 2 Mar 2003 07:04:04 -0800, zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote: > >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> >> do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in >> "Lessons", or have I missed something? > > Nah. I don't think they ever did but you're not supposed to notice > or care about such little details. It's not the story the writers > ("we are as gods") want to tell. > When the spoiler came out that Spike killed Wood's mother I thought that was going to be the tie in, the talisman was to keep Spike a prisoner. The spirits were trying to keep Buffy away from the door, and seemed to be trying to keep Spike in the room. That all went to hell when it turned out that Wood didn't know who and what Spike was, so now I have no idea what it was, or who it was meant for, and agree with EGK that we are now supposed to forget about it and pretend that it doesn't mean anything. Jul -- I'm not insane I'm normal in a screwed up society

2003-03-02 14:02:33-06:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net>)


EGK wrote: > On 2 Mar 2003 07:04:04 -0800, zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote: > >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> 1 >> >> do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in >> "Lessons", or have I missed something? > > Nah. I don't think they ever did but you're not supposed to notice > or care about such little details. It's not the story the writers > ("we are as gods") want to tell. > When the spoiler came out that Spike killed Wood's mother I thought that was going to be the tie in, the talisman was to keep Spike a prisoner. The spirits were trying to keep Buffy away from the door, and seemed to be trying to keep Spike in the room. That all went to hell when it turned out that Wood didn't know who and what Spike was, so now I have no idea what it was, or who it was meant for, and agree with EGK that we are now supposed to forget about it and pretend that it doesn't mean anything. Jul -- I'm not insane I'm normal in a screwed up society

2003-03-02 14:34:37-06:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <b3to16$1oh4cs$1@ID-184786.news.dfncis.de>, "Juleen" <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: > EGK wrote: > > On 2 Mar 2003 07:04:04 -0800, zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote: > > > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> > >> do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in > >> "Lessons", or have I missed something? > > > > Nah. I don't think they ever did but you're not supposed to notice > > or care about such little details. It's not the story the writers > > ("we are as gods") want to tell. > > > > When the spoiler came out that Spike killed Wood's mother I thought that was > going to be the tie in, the talisman was to keep Spike a prisoner. The > spirits were trying to keep Buffy away from the door, and seemed to be > trying to keep Spike in the room. > > That all went to hell when it turned out that Wood didn't know who and what > Spike was, so now I have no idea what it was, or who it was meant for, and > agree with EGK that we are now supposed to forget about it and pretend that > it doesn't mean anything. Did the writers decide to ditch their planned storyline mid-way through the season again? Were Dawn's friends supposed to play a bigger part in the show? Who was Wood supposed to be if not Nikki's son?

2003-03-02 14:34:37-06:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <b3to16$1oh4cs$1@ID-184786.news.dfncis.de>, "Juleen" <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: > EGK wrote: > > On 2 Mar 2003 07:04:04 -0800, zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote: > > > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> 1 > >> > >> do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in > >> "Lessons", or have I missed something? > > > > Nah. I don't think they ever did but you're not supposed to notice > > or care about such little details. It's not the story the writers > > ("we are as gods") want to tell. > > > > When the spoiler came out that Spike killed Wood's mother I thought that was > going to be the tie in, the talisman was to keep Spike a prisoner. The > spirits were trying to keep Buffy away from the door, and seemed to be > trying to keep Spike in the room. > > That all went to hell when it turned out that Wood didn't know who and what > Spike was, so now I have no idea what it was, or who it was meant for, and > agree with EGK that we are now supposed to forget about it and pretend that > it doesn't mean anything. Did the writers decide to ditch their planned storyline mid-way through the season again? Were Dawn's friends supposed to play a bigger part in the show? Who was Wood supposed to be if not Nikki's son?

2003-03-02 16:02:25-06:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net>)


Snuggles wrote: > In article <b3to16$1oh4cs$1@ID-184786.news.dfncis.de>, > "Juleen" <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: > >> EGK wrote: >>> On 2 Mar 2003 07:04:04 -0800, zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote: >>> >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> >>>> do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in >>>> "Lessons", or have I missed something? >>> >>> Nah. I don't think they ever did but you're not supposed to notice >>> or care about such little details. It's not the story the writers >>> ("we are as gods") want to tell. >>> >> >> When the spoiler came out that Spike killed Wood's mother I thought >> that was going to be the tie in, the talisman was to keep Spike a >> prisoner. The spirits were trying to keep Buffy away from the door, >> and seemed to be trying to keep Spike in the room. >> >> That all went to hell when it turned out that Wood didn't know who >> and what Spike was, so now I have no idea what it was, or who it was >> meant for, and agree with EGK that we are now supposed to forget >> about it and pretend that it doesn't mean anything. > > Did the writers decide to ditch their planned storyline mid-way > through the season again? Were Dawn's friends supposed to play a > bigger part in the show? Who was Wood supposed to be if not Nikki's > son? All very good questions. In a recent interview Marti does say they had no idea what to do with Spike and all of a sudden realized he had been in the basement to long. (which just amazes me) In the long run not having any idea what to do with him. It was also mentioned that it wasn't until recently that they decided to have Wood be Nikki's son. My guess is that Storyteller just about sums it all up. They're faking it and making it up as they go along. Maybe some day Joss will write a tell all book and let us in on what he was thinking, until than your guess is as good as mine. Jul -- I'm not insane I'm normal in a screwed up society

2003-03-02 16:02:25-06:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net>)


Snuggles wrote: > In article <b3to16$1oh4cs$1@ID-184786.news.dfncis.de>, > "Juleen" <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: > >> EGK wrote: >>> On 2 Mar 2003 07:04:04 -0800, zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote: >>> >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> 1 >>>> >>>> do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in >>>> "Lessons", or have I missed something? >>> >>> Nah. I don't think they ever did but you're not supposed to notice >>> or care about such little details. It's not the story the writers >>> ("we are as gods") want to tell. >>> >> >> When the spoiler came out that Spike killed Wood's mother I thought >> that was going to be the tie in, the talisman was to keep Spike a >> prisoner. The spirits were trying to keep Buffy away from the door, >> and seemed to be trying to keep Spike in the room. >> >> That all went to hell when it turned out that Wood didn't know who >> and what Spike was, so now I have no idea what it was, or who it was >> meant for, and agree with EGK that we are now supposed to forget >> about it and pretend that it doesn't mean anything. > > Did the writers decide to ditch their planned storyline mid-way > through the season again? Were Dawn's friends supposed to play a > bigger part in the show? Who was Wood supposed to be if not Nikki's > son? All very good questions. In a recent interview Marti does say they had no idea what to do with Spike and all of a sudden realized he had been in the basement to long. (which just amazes me) In the long run not having any idea what to do with him. It was also mentioned that it wasn't until recently that they decided to have Wood be Nikki's son. My guess is that Storyteller just about sums it all up. They're faking it and making it up as they go along. Maybe some day Joss will write a tell all book and let us in on what he was thinking, until than your guess is as good as mine. Jul -- I'm not insane I'm normal in a screwed up society

2003-03-02 17:31:19+00:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


Dunce wrote: >Since the writers have just abandoned the whole storyline it's >up to us to fanwank whichever story we want. Personally, I'm leaning >towards Spike being the culprit. The circumstancial evidence supports >this and it would be fun to see Buffy's reaction to finding out that >her soulboy put her sister in danger. > I'm sure it would shock and horrify her and cause her to stake him immediately. As of now, all she knows of that her soulboy did while insane was trivial, dull stuff such as killing 11 women and turning them into vampires. Rose It's not Giles, no, it's not "Mine is a redemptive struggle. These ropes itch." -- Andrew

2003-03-02 17:31:19+00:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (fylmfan@aol.comspam)


Dunce wrote: >Since the writers have just abandoned the whole storyline it's >up to us to fanwank whichever story we want. Personally, I'm leaning >towards Spike being the culprit. The circumstancial evidence supports >this and it would be fun to see Buffy's reaction to finding out that >her soulboy put her sister in danger. > I'm sure it would shock and horrify her and cause her to stake him immediately. As of now, all she knows of that her soulboy did while insane was trivial, dull stuff such as killing 11 women and turning them into vampires. Rose It's not Giles, no, it's not "Mine is a redemptive struggle. These ropes itch." -- Andrew

2003-03-02 17:49:59-06:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <08a63bdc7356d915e747926b0713ffe5@news.mybinaries.com>, James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote: > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:02:33 -0600, "Juleen" > <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: > > That all went to hell when it turned out that Wood didn't know who and what > > Spike was, so now I have no idea what it was, or who it was meant for, and > > agree with EGK that we are now supposed to forget about it and pretend that > > it doesn't mean anything. > > LIke one hundred and one other abandoned plot lines and forgotten > loose ends -- such as Spike drowning. That's not a forgetten plot point, that's just stupidity. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let the Darwin Fishes swim! www.darwin-fish.com/fish.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-03-02 17:49:59-06:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <08a63bdc7356d915e747926b0713ffe5@news.mybinaries.com>, James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote: > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:02:33 -0600, "Juleen" > <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: > > That all went to hell when it turned out that Wood didn't know who and what > > Spike was, so now I have no idea what it was, or who it was meant for, and > > agree with EGK that we are now supposed to forget about it and pretend that > > it doesn't mean anything. > > LIke one hundred and one other abandoned plot lines and forgotten > loose ends -- such as Spike drowning. That's not a forgetten plot point, that's just stupidity. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let the Darwin Fishes swim! www.darwin-fish.com/fish.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-03-02 17:55:13-06:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net>)


James A. Donald wrote: > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:02:33 -0600, "Juleen" > <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: >> That all went to hell when it turned out that Wood didn't know who >> and what Spike was, so now I have no idea what it was, or who it was >> meant for, and agree with EGK that we are now supposed to forget >> about it and pretend that it doesn't mean anything. > > LIke one hundred and one other abandoned plot lines and forgotten > loose ends -- such as Spike drowning. People can say that they didn't like S6 but I have to give it credit, while it had a number of storylines that got dropped, changed, or ignored, it didn't feel like it was every episode. This season it seems to be every week. There hasn't been a resolution to any story this season, instead of sticking to one thing and seeing it to it's conclusion, they start another, and another, and another, until we are at the point we are right now. None of it makes any sense. Jul -- I'm not insane I'm normal in a screwed up society

2003-03-02 17:55:13-06:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net>)


James A. Donald wrote: > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:02:33 -0600, "Juleen" > <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: >> That all went to hell when it turned out that Wood didn't know who >> and what Spike was, so now I have no idea what it was, or who it was >> meant for, and agree with EGK that we are now supposed to forget >> about it and pretend that it doesn't mean anything. > > LIke one hundred and one other abandoned plot lines and forgotten > loose ends -- such as Spike drowning. People can say that they didn't like S6 but I have to give it credit, while it had a number of storylines that got dropped, changed, or ignored, it didn't feel like it was every episode. This season it seems to be every week. There hasn't been a resolution to any story this season, instead of sticking to one thing and seeing it to it's conclusion, they start another, and another, and another, until we are at the point we are right now. None of it makes any sense. Jul -- I'm not insane I'm normal in a screwed up society

2003-03-02 23:44:01+00:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - ("James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com>)


On Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:02:33 -0600, "Juleen" <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: > That all went to hell when it turned out that Wood didn't know who and what > Spike was, so now I have no idea what it was, or who it was meant for, and > agree with EGK that we are now supposed to forget about it and pretend that > it doesn't mean anything. LIke one hundred and one other abandoned plot lines and forgotten loose ends -- such as Spike drowning.

2003-03-02 23:44:01+00:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - ("James A. Donald" <jamesd@echeque.com>)


On Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:02:33 -0600, "Juleen" <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: > That all went to hell when it turned out that Wood didn't know who and what > Spike was, so now I have no idea what it was, or who it was meant for, and > agree with EGK that we are now supposed to forget about it and pretend that > it doesn't mean anything. LIke one hundred and one other abandoned plot lines and forgotten loose ends -- such as Spike drowning.

2003-03-05 06:41:27-08:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (jabba_da_hutt@hotmail.com)


zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote in message news:<a75dbe9c.0303020704.7f2b268@posting.google.com>... > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > > do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in > "Lessons", or have I missed something? It might just be me, but I always suspected Kit of being the one who did it. I was catching a "I know more than I'm saying" vibe off of her about the whole thing. I figured she was playing with the magicks and got in over her head. Of course, other than a shaky "vibe" I have no evidence to support this theory. Thanks, Jake Spencer

2003-03-05 06:41:27-08:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (jabba_da_hutt@hotmail.com)


zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote in message news:<a75dbe9c.0303020704.7f2b268@posting.google.com>... > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > 1 > > do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in > "Lessons", or have I missed something? It might just be me, but I always suspected Kit of being the one who did it. I was catching a "I know more than I'm saying" vibe off of her about the whole thing. I figured she was playing with the magicks and got in over her head. Of course, other than a shaky "vibe" I have no evidence to support this theory. Thanks, Jake Spencer

2003-03-05 10:21:21+00:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On 2 Mar 2003 07:04:04 -0800, zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote: >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 > >do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in >"Lessons", or have I missed something? We do not know. I do not care.

2003-03-05 10:21:21+00:00 - Re: "Lessons" spoilers & speculation - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On 2 Mar 2003 07:04:04 -0800, zzzzara@my-deja.com (zzzzara) wrote: >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 >1 > >do we still not know who put the talisman in the bathroom in >"Lessons", or have I missed something? We do not know. I do not care.