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2002-12-17 13:30:32-05:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (W Gemini <wgeminiNOSPAM@hotmail.com>)


Edward Haworth wrote: > On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:21:07 +1300, Gareth Wilson > <grw45@ext.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote: > > >>Someone commented recently that no biological father had been shown to >>be anything but worthless on this show. At the time I thought this was a >>bit of an exaggeration, but it's actually easy enough to check. Consider >>the characters: >> >>Buffy: Dad starts off as a reasonably good divorcee father, but soon >>descends into shiftless absenteeism. >>Xander: His father's such an abusive drunk he scares his son off his >>marriage. >>Willow: We don't know much, except that he's very strict about the >>family's Judaism. >>Cordelia: A chronic tax evader who eventually reduced his family to >>penury. >>Angel: Seems rather unsympathetic in the flashbacks, but Liam probably >>deserved what he got. >>Faith: No real information, but her attitude to men doesn't seem to >>indicate a good father figure. >>Tara: Like Xander's, only more subtle. >>We get no information about the fathers of Joyce, Giles, Oz, any of the >>other vampires, or any of the more minor recurring characters. So, the >>best father on the show seems to be Ira Rosenberg, who's never actually >>appeared. Can anyone think of someone better? > > > > Angel himself (I know not really same show but...). > > For the record you could add Wesley's father to the list. Not a biological father, but a father figure. The Mayor. At least he cared about faith, no other father in the show really showed that which is pretty ironic.

2002-12-17 13:30:32-05:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (W Gemini <wgeminiNOSPAM@hotmail.com>)


Edward Haworth wrote: > On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:21:07 +1300, Gareth Wilson > <grw45@ext.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote: > > >>Someone commented recently that no biological father had been shown to >>be anything but worthless on this show. At the time I thought this was a >>bit of an exaggeration, but it's actually easy enough to check. Consider >>the characters: >> >>Buffy: Dad starts off as a reasonably good divorcee father, but soon >>descends into shiftless absenteeism. >>Xander: His father's such an abusive drunk he scares his son off his >>marriage. >>Willow: We don't know much, except that he's very strict about the >>family's Judaism. >>Cordelia: A chronic tax evader who eventually reduced his family to >>penury. >>Angel: Seems rather unsympathetic in the flashbacks, but Liam probably >>deserved what he got. >>Faith: No real information, but her attitude to men doesn't seem to >>indicate a good father figure. >>Tara: Like Xander's, only more subtle. >>We get no information about the fathers of Joyce, Giles, Oz, any of the >>other vampires, or any of the more minor recurring characters. So, the >>best father on the show seems to be Ira Rosenberg, who's never actually >>appeared. Can anyone think of someone better? > > > > Angel himself (I know not really same show but...). > > For the record you could add Wesley's father to the list. Not a biological father, but a father figure. The Mayor. At least he cared about faith, no other father in the show really showed that which is pretty ironic.

2002-12-17 14:28:49-07:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (William George Ferguson <william.george.ferguson@domail.maricopa.edu>)


On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:41:12 +1300, Gareth Wilson <grw45@ext.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote: >Edward Haworth wrote: > >> Angel himself (I know not really same show but...). > >Good point. I haven't seen those episodes of "Angel" yet. > >> >> For the record you could add Wesley's father to the list. > >There have been hints that Wesley's father was worse than Xander's. In the >exorcism episode, for example. Wesley's conversation with his father on the phone (the side we could hear, Wesley's) pretty much took it out of the realm of 'hint'. But then, if you include Angel (the series), Fred's father and mother came off marvelously well, when we finally met them, in "Fredless". Caring, supporting, but not controlling and smothering, everything an ME parent typically isn't. -- "Oh Buffy, you really do need to have every square inch of your ass kicked." - Willow Rosenberg

2002-12-17 14:28:49-07:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (William George Ferguson <william.george.ferguson@domail.maricopa.edu>)


On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:41:12 +1300, Gareth Wilson <grw45@ext.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote: >Edward Haworth wrote: > >> Angel himself (I know not really same show but...). > >Good point. I haven't seen those episodes of "Angel" yet. > >> >> For the record you could add Wesley's father to the list. > >There have been hints that Wesley's father was worse than Xander's. In the >exorcism episode, for example. Wesley's conversation with his father on the phone (the side we could hear, Wesley's) pretty much took it out of the realm of 'hint'. But then, if you include Angel (the series), Fred's father and mother came off marvelously well, when we finally met them, in "Fredless". Caring, supporting, but not controlling and smothering, everything an ME parent typically isn't. -- "Oh Buffy, you really do need to have every square inch of your ass kicked." - Willow Rosenberg

2002-12-17 16:32:18-06:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <atnng2$nt2$1@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > Amy's father was mentioned in The Witch and he seemed like a good > guy who honestly cared for his daughter. I don't think we've > heard about him since Amy got turned into a rat, though. Poor > bastard was probably worried sick about what happened to his > daughter for years. > > Pete He was mentioned a couple of times in _Smashed_ and _Wrecked_. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2002-12-17 16:32:18-06:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <atnng2$nt2$1@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > Amy's father was mentioned in The Witch and he seemed like a good > guy who honestly cared for his daughter. I don't think we've > heard about him since Amy got turned into a rat, though. Poor > bastard was probably worried sick about what happened to his > daughter for years. > > Pete He was mentioned a couple of times in _Smashed_ and _Wrecked_. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2002-12-17 17:20:50+00:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (Edward Haworth <nobody@here.org>)


On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:21:07 +1300, Gareth Wilson <grw45@ext.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote: >Someone commented recently that no biological father had been shown to >be anything but worthless on this show. At the time I thought this was a >bit of an exaggeration, but it's actually easy enough to check. Consider >the characters: > >Buffy: Dad starts off as a reasonably good divorcee father, but soon >descends into shiftless absenteeism. >Xander: His father's such an abusive drunk he scares his son off his >marriage. >Willow: We don't know much, except that he's very strict about the >family's Judaism. >Cordelia: A chronic tax evader who eventually reduced his family to >penury. >Angel: Seems rather unsympathetic in the flashbacks, but Liam probably >deserved what he got. >Faith: No real information, but her attitude to men doesn't seem to >indicate a good father figure. >Tara: Like Xander's, only more subtle. >We get no information about the fathers of Joyce, Giles, Oz, any of the >other vampires, or any of the more minor recurring characters. So, the >best father on the show seems to be Ira Rosenberg, who's never actually >appeared. Can anyone think of someone better? Angel himself (I know not really same show but...). For the record you could add Wesley's father to the list.

2002-12-17 17:20:50+00:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (Edward Haworth <nobody@here.org>)


On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:21:07 +1300, Gareth Wilson <grw45@ext.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote: >Someone commented recently that no biological father had been shown to >be anything but worthless on this show. At the time I thought this was a >bit of an exaggeration, but it's actually easy enough to check. Consider >the characters: > >Buffy: Dad starts off as a reasonably good divorcee father, but soon >descends into shiftless absenteeism. >Xander: His father's such an abusive drunk he scares his son off his >marriage. >Willow: We don't know much, except that he's very strict about the >family's Judaism. >Cordelia: A chronic tax evader who eventually reduced his family to >penury. >Angel: Seems rather unsympathetic in the flashbacks, but Liam probably >deserved what he got. >Faith: No real information, but her attitude to men doesn't seem to >indicate a good father figure. >Tara: Like Xander's, only more subtle. >We get no information about the fathers of Joyce, Giles, Oz, any of the >other vampires, or any of the more minor recurring characters. So, the >best father on the show seems to be Ira Rosenberg, who's never actually >appeared. Can anyone think of someone better? Angel himself (I know not really same show but...). For the record you could add Wesley's father to the list.

2002-12-17 17:39:14+00:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


Amy's father was mentioned in The Witch and he seemed like a good guy who honestly cared for his daughter. I don't think we've heard about him since Amy got turned into a rat, though. Poor bastard was probably worried sick about what happened to his daughter for years. Pete

2002-12-17 17:39:14+00:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


Amy's father was mentioned in The Witch and he seemed like a good guy who honestly cared for his daughter. I don't think we've heard about him since Amy got turned into a rat, though. Poor bastard was probably worried sick about what happened to his daughter for years. Pete

2002-12-17 21:25:01-05:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


Gareth Wilson <grw45@ext.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message news:3DFEFA93.23E91C95@ext.canterbury.ac.nz... > Someone commented recently that no biological father had been shown to > be anything but worthless on this show. At the time I thought this was a > bit of an exaggeration, but it's actually easy enough to check. Consider > the characters: > > Buffy: Dad starts off as a reasonably good divorcee father, but soon > descends into shiftless absenteeism. > Xander: His father's such an abusive drunk he scares his son off his > marriage. > Willow: We don't know much, except that he's very strict about the > family's Judaism. > Cordelia: A chronic tax evader who eventually reduced his family to > penury. > Angel: Seems rather unsympathetic in the flashbacks, but Liam probably > deserved what he got. Hey, Liam was a worthless jerk. > Faith: No real information, but her attitude to men doesn't seem to > indicate a good father figure. > Tara: Like Xander's, only more subtle. > We get no information about the fathers of Joyce, Giles, Oz, any of the Well, we do know that Giles' dad was a Watcher, and he gave him a tireless speech on responsibility... > other vampires, or any of the more minor recurring characters. So, the > best father on the show seems to be Ira Rosenberg, who's never actually > appeared. Can anyone think of someone better? I'm going with Amy's father. Arnold Kim

2002-12-17 21:25:01-05:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


Gareth Wilson <grw45@ext.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote in message news:3DFEFA93.23E91C95@ext.canterbury.ac.nz... > Someone commented recently that no biological father had been shown to > be anything but worthless on this show. At the time I thought this was a > bit of an exaggeration, but it's actually easy enough to check. Consider > the characters: > > Buffy: Dad starts off as a reasonably good divorcee father, but soon > descends into shiftless absenteeism. > Xander: His father's such an abusive drunk he scares his son off his > marriage. > Willow: We don't know much, except that he's very strict about the > family's Judaism. > Cordelia: A chronic tax evader who eventually reduced his family to > penury. > Angel: Seems rather unsympathetic in the flashbacks, but Liam probably > deserved what he got. Hey, Liam was a worthless jerk. > Faith: No real information, but her attitude to men doesn't seem to > indicate a good father figure. > Tara: Like Xander's, only more subtle. > We get no information about the fathers of Joyce, Giles, Oz, any of the Well, we do know that Giles' dad was a Watcher, and he gave him a tireless speech on responsibility... > other vampires, or any of the more minor recurring characters. So, the > best father on the show seems to be Ira Rosenberg, who's never actually > appeared. Can anyone think of someone better? I'm going with Amy's father. Arnold Kim

2002-12-17 23:21:07+13:00 - Sins of the Fathers - (Gareth Wilson <grw45@ext.canterbury.ac.nz>)


Someone commented recently that no biological father had been shown to be anything but worthless on this show. At the time I thought this was a bit of an exaggeration, but it's actually easy enough to check. Consider the characters: Buffy: Dad starts off as a reasonably good divorcee father, but soon descends into shiftless absenteeism. Xander: His father's such an abusive drunk he scares his son off his marriage. Willow: We don't know much, except that he's very strict about the family's Judaism. Cordelia: A chronic tax evader who eventually reduced his family to penury. Angel: Seems rather unsympathetic in the flashbacks, but Liam probably deserved what he got. Faith: No real information, but her attitude to men doesn't seem to indicate a good father figure. Tara: Like Xander's, only more subtle. We get no information about the fathers of Joyce, Giles, Oz, any of the other vampires, or any of the more minor recurring characters. So, the best father on the show seems to be Ira Rosenberg, who's never actually appeared. Can anyone think of someone better? -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gareth Wilson Christchurch New Zealand "The orangutan was just a political advisor, not the president. " ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2002-12-17 23:21:07+13:00 - Sins of the Fathers - (Gareth Wilson <grw45@ext.canterbury.ac.nz>)


Someone commented recently that no biological father had been shown to be anything but worthless on this show. At the time I thought this was a bit of an exaggeration, but it's actually easy enough to check. Consider the characters: Buffy: Dad starts off as a reasonably good divorcee father, but soon descends into shiftless absenteeism. Xander: His father's such an abusive drunk he scares his son off his marriage. Willow: We don't know much, except that he's very strict about the family's Judaism. Cordelia: A chronic tax evader who eventually reduced his family to penury. Angel: Seems rather unsympathetic in the flashbacks, but Liam probably deserved what he got. Faith: No real information, but her attitude to men doesn't seem to indicate a good father figure. Tara: Like Xander's, only more subtle. We get no information about the fathers of Joyce, Giles, Oz, any of the other vampires, or any of the more minor recurring characters. So, the best father on the show seems to be Ira Rosenberg, who's never actually appeared. Can anyone think of someone better? -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gareth Wilson Christchurch New Zealand "The orangutan was just a political advisor, not the president. " ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2002-12-18 07:41:12+13:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (Gareth Wilson <grw45@ext.canterbury.ac.nz>)


Edward Haworth wrote: > Angel himself (I know not really same show but...). Good point. I haven't seen those episodes of "Angel" yet. > > For the record you could add Wesley's father to the list. There have been hints that Wesley's father was worse than Xander's. In the exorcism episode, for example. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gareth Wilson Christchurch New Zealand "The orangutan was just a political advisor, not the president. " ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2002-12-18 07:41:12+13:00 - Re: Sins of the Fathers - (Gareth Wilson <grw45@ext.canterbury.ac.nz>)


Edward Haworth wrote: > Angel himself (I know not really same show but...). Good point. I haven't seen those episodes of "Angel" yet. > > For the record you could add Wesley's father to the list. There have been hints that Wesley's father was worse than Xander's. In the exorcism episode, for example. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gareth Wilson Christchurch New Zealand "The orangutan was just a political advisor, not the president. " ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~