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2003-03-22 17:51:58+01:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Laruuk <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? I'm sure she could have. Funny thing is, Spike didn't ask her to. It kind of works that way.

2003-03-22 17:51:58+01:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Laruuk <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? I'm sure she could have. Funny thing is, Spike didn't ask her to. It kind of works that way.

2003-03-23 04:14:12-08:00 - So if Willow can restore a soul - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul?

2003-03-23 04:14:12-08:00 - So if Willow can restore a soul - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul?

2003-03-23 08:46:53-08:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Shorty wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell.

2003-03-23 08:46:53-08:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Shorty wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell.

2003-03-23 09:38:01-08:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Shorty wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > >Shorty wrote: > >> > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >> > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >> > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > >> > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. > > Shorty Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar.

2003-03-23 09:38:01-08:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Shorty wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > >Shorty wrote: > >> > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >> > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >> > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > >> > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. > > Shorty Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar.

2003-03-23 10:42:43-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? Because its evil magic. An innocent soul is taken from its eternal rest and forced into the dead husk of its former body to experience a 24/7 snuff film of memories collected by the monster that murdered it. I think Willow might have become more cautious about ripping people from the afterlife without asking their permission first. Willow knew that Angel wanted his soul restored but unless Willow used an Ouija board she didn't have William permission.

2003-03-23 10:42:43-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? Because its evil magic. An innocent soul is taken from its eternal rest and forced into the dead husk of its former body to experience a 24/7 snuff film of memories collected by the monster that murdered it. I think Willow might have become more cautious about ripping people from the afterlife without asking their permission first. Willow knew that Angel wanted his soul restored but unless Willow used an Ouija board she didn't have William permission.

2003-03-23 12:25:46+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (thequietdragon@aol.com)


He didn't ask and probably didn't want the no moment of happiness clause.Since that is the spell Willow knows.

2003-03-23 12:25:46+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (thequietdragon@aol.com)


He didn't ask and probably didn't want the no moment of happiness clause.Since that is the spell Willow knows.

2003-03-23 13:32:28-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. At no time did they say anything about the book Willow used being Fred's. It was probably her own. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-03-23 13:32:28-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. At no time did they say anything about the book Willow used being Fred's. It was probably her own. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-03-23 16:11:24+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Shorty <notrealshorty@hotmail.com>)


On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... Shorty ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I used to believe these were real people -- well, not real people, because I'm eminently sane, but I believed that they could have been people I knew. But now? There's no interior life there. I don't get the sense that they think or feel really anything other than what the writers decide they should think or feel to get them from point A to point B, no matter how contradictory those thoughts and feelings are to the thoughts and feelings they had last week, last month, or last year." - http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=12&story=4599

2003-03-23 16:11:24+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Shorty <notrealshorty@hotmail.com>)


On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... Shorty ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I used to believe these were real people -- well, not real people, because I'm eminently sane, but I believed that they could have been people I knew. But now? There's no interior life there. I don't get the sense that they think or feel really anything other than what the writers decide they should think or feel to get them from point A to point B, no matter how contradictory those thoughts and feelings are to the thoughts and feelings they had last week, last month, or last year." - http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=12&story=4599

2003-03-23 16:19:44-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (KenM47 <KenM47@ix.netcom.com>)


"Laruuk" <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: > >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >I'm sure she could have. > >Funny thing is, Spike didn't ask her to. > >It kind of works that way. > It's a valid question. Nobody else (Buffy) asked her either. Ken

2003-03-23 16:19:44-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (KenM47 <KenM47@ix.netcom.com>)


"Laruuk" <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: > >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >I'm sure she could have. > >Funny thing is, Spike didn't ask her to. > >It kind of works that way. > It's a valid question. Nobody else (Buffy) asked her either. Ken

2003-03-23 16:21:16-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (KenM47 <KenM47@ix.netcom.com>)


Shorty <notrealshorty@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >>why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > > >Shorty

2003-03-23 16:21:16-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (KenM47 <KenM47@ix.netcom.com>)


Shorty <notrealshorty@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >>why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > > >Shorty

2003-03-23 16:54:30+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>)


Darwin Fish wrote: > In article <3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> > wrote: > > >>why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > > Because its evil magic. An innocent soul is taken from its eternal rest > and forced into the dead husk of its former body to experience a 24/7 > snuff film of memories collected by the monster that murdered it. I > think Willow might have become more cautious about ripping people from > the afterlife without asking their permission first. Willow knew that > Angel wanted his soul restored but unless Willow used an Ouija board she > didn't have William permission. Besides, at the time Spike left to go to Africa, Willow was on the magic wagon. And when she fell off, helping others was the last thing on her mind. Jane -- Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516

2003-03-23 16:54:30+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>)


Darwin Fish wrote: > In article <3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> > wrote: > > >>why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > > Because its evil magic. An innocent soul is taken from its eternal rest > and forced into the dead husk of its former body to experience a 24/7 > snuff film of memories collected by the monster that murdered it. I > think Willow might have become more cautious about ripping people from > the afterlife without asking their permission first. Willow knew that > Angel wanted his soul restored but unless Willow used an Ouija board she > didn't have William permission. Besides, at the time Spike left to go to Africa, Willow was on the magic wagon. And when she fell off, helping others was the last thing on her mind. Jane -- Read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction at http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516

2003-03-23 17:11:31+01:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - ("Klaus G." <klaus_godt@hotmail.com>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? She only set Angels soul free from the glass, and then she put it in Angel again. Giving Spike a new soul, cause the original was lost 130years ago, thats a hole other thing...I guess :) -- Klaus G. / Seth-Enoch

2003-03-23 17:11:31+01:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - ("Klaus G." <klaus_godt@hotmail.com>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? She only set Angels soul free from the glass, and then she put it in Angel again. Giving Spike a new soul, cause the original was lost 130years ago, thats a hole other thing...I guess :) -- Klaus G. / Seth-Enoch

2003-03-23 17:21:05+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Shorty <notrealshorty@hotmail.com>)


On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >Shorty wrote: >> >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >> >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >> >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... >> > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. Shorty ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I used to believe these were real people -- well, not real people, because I'm eminently sane, but I believed that they could have been people I knew. But now? There's no interior life there. I don't get the sense that they think or feel really anything other than what the writers decide they should think or feel to get them from point A to point B, no matter how contradictory those thoughts and feelings are to the thoughts and feelings they had last week, last month, or last year." - http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=12&story=4599

2003-03-23 17:21:05+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Shorty <notrealshorty@hotmail.com>)


On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >Shorty wrote: >> >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >> >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >> >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... >> > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. Shorty ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I used to believe these were real people -- well, not real people, because I'm eminently sane, but I believed that they could have been people I knew. But now? There's no interior life there. I don't get the sense that they think or feel really anything other than what the writers decide they should think or feel to get them from point A to point B, no matter how contradictory those thoughts and feelings are to the thoughts and feelings they had last week, last month, or last year." - http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=12&story=4599

2003-03-23 18:01:29-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:55:48 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > > Shorty wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > > > >Shorty wrote: > > > >> > > > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > > >> > > > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > > > >> > > > > > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It > > > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only > > > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > > > > > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of > > > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. > > > > > > Shorty > > > > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in > > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a > > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. Maybe Willow published the spell? Gotta make money somehow! -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-03-23 18:01:29-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:55:48 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > > Shorty wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > > > >Shorty wrote: > > > >> > > > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > > >> > > > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > > > >> > > > > > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It > > > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only > > > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > > > > > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of > > > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. > > > > > > Shorty > > > > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in > > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a > > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. Maybe Willow published the spell? Gotta make money somehow! -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-03-23 18:13:52-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - ("TvHall.com Your TV Database" <nospamming@sympatico.ca>)


Buy what I remember, the original text was not in any known language or coded. There were references is books about the orb but not the key to understand and use it. I still think it was a dumb idea to kill Jenny anyway ! J www.tvhall.com "Hunter" <buffhunter@my-deja.com> a ���crit dans le message de news: MPG.18e7fa5fc9b0f21e989847@news.earthlink.net... > In article <3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > > --- > Stricly speaking, she can restore only Angel's soul, because she has > the "receipe". She reused the old gypsy curse, not did anything new. > -- > ----->Hunter > > "No man in the wrong can stand up against > a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." > > -----William J. McDonald > Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-23 18:13:52-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - ("TvHall.com Your TV Database" <nospamming@sympatico.ca>)


Buy what I remember, the original text was not in any known language or coded. There were references is books about the orb but not the key to understand and use it. I still think it was a dumb idea to kill Jenny anyway ! J www.tvhall.com "Hunter" <buffhunter@my-deja.com> a ���crit dans le message de news: MPG.18e7fa5fc9b0f21e989847@news.earthlink.net... > In article <3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > > --- > Stricly speaking, she can restore only Angel's soul, because she has > the "receipe". She reused the old gypsy curse, not did anything new. > -- > ----->Hunter > > "No man in the wrong can stand up against > a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." > > -----William J. McDonald > Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-23 18:33:36-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (David Cheatham <david@creeknet.com>)


In article <9212108114164515.NC-1.55.mathewignash@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com>, mathewignash@comcast.net says... > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:55:48 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > > > Shorty wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >Shorty wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > > > >> > > > > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It > > > > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only > > > > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > > > > > > > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of > > > > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. > > > > > > > > Shorty > > > > > > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in > > > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a > > > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. > > Maybe Willow published the spell? Gotta make money somehow! Which is a funny gag if the spell only works to ensoul Angelus. I can see Angelus wandering around in 2009 after killing all the Scoobies, and AI, and everyone who's ever heard of the curse...and then someone runs across an unlabeled spell in a random magic book and says it, and poof, Angel's got a soul again.

2003-03-23 18:33:36-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (David Cheatham <david@creeknet.com>)


In article <9212108114164515.NC-1.55.mathewignash@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com>, mathewignash@comcast.net says... > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:55:48 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > > > Shorty wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >Shorty wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > > > >> > > > > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It > > > > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only > > > > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > > > > > > > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of > > > > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. > > > > > > > > Shorty > > > > > > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in > > > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a > > > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. > > Maybe Willow published the spell? Gotta make money somehow! Which is a funny gag if the spell only works to ensoul Angelus. I can see Angelus wandering around in 2009 after killing all the Scoobies, and AI, and everyone who's ever heard of the curse...and then someone runs across an unlabeled spell in a random magic book and says it, and poof, Angel's got a soul again.

2003-03-23 19:00:21+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:38:01 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in >Fred's ancient books Where do you get that from?

2003-03-23 19:00:21+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 09:38:01 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in >Fred's ancient books Where do you get that from?

2003-03-23 19:07:19+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (indyana68@aol.comREMOVE)


> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? You mean do the same curse on Spike that had been done do Angelus?

2003-03-23 19:07:19+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (indyana68@aol.comREMOVE)


> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? You mean do the same curse on Spike that had been done do Angelus?

2003-03-23 21:16:52+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com>)


"Laruuk" <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote in message news:b5konv$3kn$04$1@news.t-online.com... > > "Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > I'm sure she could have. > > Funny thing is, Spike didn't ask her to. Neither did Angelus. Bill Bickel http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com http://www.billo.org http://www.missing-kids-us

2003-03-23 21:16:52+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Bill Bickel <billbick@optonline.com>)


"Laruuk" <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote in message news:b5konv$3kn$04$1@news.t-online.com... > > "Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > I'm sure she could have. > > Funny thing is, Spike didn't ask her to. Neither did Angelus. Bill Bickel http://www.comicsidontunderstand.com http://www.billo.org http://www.missing-kids-us

2003-03-23 22:08:53+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > --- Stricly speaking, she can restore only Angel's soul, because she has the "receipe". She reused the old gypsy curse, not did anything new. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-23 22:08:53+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > --- Stricly speaking, she can restore only Angel's soul, because she has the "receipe". She reused the old gypsy curse, not did anything new. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-23 22:22:48-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu>)


In article <3E7DE4FD.90921CBD@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >Shorty wrote: >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? Yes. > It >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. Looked like, sounded like, was. --------------------------------------------- David M. Nieporent nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu

2003-03-23 22:22:48-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu>)


In article <3E7DE4FD.90921CBD@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >Shorty wrote: >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? Yes. > It >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. Looked like, sounded like, was. --------------------------------------------- David M. Nieporent nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu

2003-03-23 22:55:48+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > Shorty wrote: > > > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > >Shorty wrote: > > >> > > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > >> > > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > > >> > > > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It > > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only > > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > > > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of > > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. > > > > Shorty > > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. > -- Key word is only KNOWN source. Perhaps this was a new discovery after Jenny's research/translation. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-23 22:55:48+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > Shorty wrote: > > > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > >Shorty wrote: > > >> > > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > >> > > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > > >> > > > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It > > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only > > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > > > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of > > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. > > > > Shorty > > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. > -- Key word is only KNOWN source. Perhaps this was a new discovery after Jenny's research/translation. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-23 22:58:57+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <T0lfa.1974$vn1.517960@news010.worldonline.dk>, klaus_godt@hotmail.com says... > "Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > She only set Angels soul free from the glass, and then she put it in Angel > again. Giving Spike a new soul, cause the original was lost 130years ago, > thats a hole other thing...I guess :) > > > -- > Klaus G. / Seth-Enoch > > > ---- Spike's soul is the soul of William. It would not make sense to just pull another soul out of the either like a new suit of clothes. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-23 22:58:57+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <T0lfa.1974$vn1.517960@news010.worldonline.dk>, klaus_godt@hotmail.com says... > "Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > She only set Angels soul free from the glass, and then she put it in Angel > again. Giving Spike a new soul, cause the original was lost 130years ago, > thats a hole other thing...I guess :) > > > -- > Klaus G. / Seth-Enoch > > > ---- Spike's soul is the soul of William. It would not make sense to just pull another soul out of the either like a new suit of clothes. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-23 23:06:56+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <a-A4BADB.10424323032003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, a@a.edu says... > In article <3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> > wrote: > > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > Because its evil magic. An innocent soul is taken from its eternal rest > and forced into the dead husk of its former body to experience a 24/7 > snuff film of memories collected by the monster that murdered it. I > think Willow might have become more cautious about ripping people from > the afterlife without asking their permission first. Willow knew that > Angel wanted his soul restored but unless Willow used an Ouija board she > didn't have William permission. > ---- Actually, this fanwank can work to explain why they don't restore any vampire's soul willy nilly at any time. What right do we have to pull a soul out of its rest or out of paradise only to put it in the hell of a vampire's body? Angel already had a pre existing soul who wanted to return. Spike got his back by his own choice. Other vampires do not meet these criteria. Look what happened to Buffy's ressurection. Look at what kind of state she was in and all that happened is that she was pulled out of bliss and did not have to deal with any blood on her hands if she was returning to a vampire's body. Spike temporarily went insane because of it. So there you go, the reason we don't blindly restore vampire's souls. It is cruel to the resting soul. Just kill the vampire. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-23 23:06:56+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <a-A4BADB.10424323032003@husk.cso.niu.edu>, a@a.edu says... > In article <3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> > wrote: > > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > Because its evil magic. An innocent soul is taken from its eternal rest > and forced into the dead husk of its former body to experience a 24/7 > snuff film of memories collected by the monster that murdered it. I > think Willow might have become more cautious about ripping people from > the afterlife without asking their permission first. Willow knew that > Angel wanted his soul restored but unless Willow used an Ouija board she > didn't have William permission. > ---- Actually, this fanwank can work to explain why they don't restore any vampire's soul willy nilly at any time. What right do we have to pull a soul out of its rest or out of paradise only to put it in the hell of a vampire's body? Angel already had a pre existing soul who wanted to return. Spike got his back by his own choice. Other vampires do not meet these criteria. Look what happened to Buffy's ressurection. Look at what kind of state she was in and all that happened is that she was pulled out of bliss and did not have to deal with any blood on her hands if she was returning to a vampire's body. Spike temporarily went insane because of it. So there you go, the reason we don't blindly restore vampire's souls. It is cruel to the resting soul. Just kill the vampire. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-24 00:23:38+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Peter Morris <nosp@m.please>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? she could have, but by the time Spike decided he wanted his soul back, she was all evil and not in a good mood.

2003-03-24 00:23:38+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Peter Morris <nosp@m.please>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? she could have, but by the time Spike decided he wanted his soul back, she was all evil and not in a good mood.

2003-03-24 00:24:25+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Shorty <notrealshorty@hotmail.com>)


On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 15:29:55 -0800, "Rusty Shackleford" <puchika2002@hotmail.com> wrote: >Now we're starting to get anal. This is what Jenny said about what she was >translating from Season 2 Episode 17 "Passion" > >---Begin Quote--- >Jenny: It's okay. I've been working on a computer program for rendering the >Romanian liturgy to English, based on random sampling of the text. >---End Quote--- > >So technically it wasn't cuneiform. The point being is that the curse was >documented, but no one had been able to translate it until Jenny did back in >season 2. > Thank you for handling the stupidity for me. Shorty ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I used to believe these were real people -- well, not real people, because I'm eminently sane, but I believed that they could have been people I knew. But now? There's no interior life there. I don't get the sense that they think or feel really anything other than what the writers decide they should think or feel to get them from point A to point B, no matter how contradictory those thoughts and feelings are to the thoughts and feelings they had last week, last month, or last year." - http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=12&story=4599

2003-03-24 00:24:25+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Shorty <notrealshorty@hotmail.com>)


On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 15:29:55 -0800, "Rusty Shackleford" <puchika2002@hotmail.com> wrote: >Now we're starting to get anal. This is what Jenny said about what she was >translating from Season 2 Episode 17 "Passion" > >---Begin Quote--- >Jenny: It's okay. I've been working on a computer program for rendering the >Romanian liturgy to English, based on random sampling of the text. >---End Quote--- > >So technically it wasn't cuneiform. The point being is that the curse was >documented, but no one had been able to translate it until Jenny did back in >season 2. > Thank you for handling the stupidity for me. Shorty ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I used to believe these were real people -- well, not real people, because I'm eminently sane, but I believed that they could have been people I knew. But now? There's no interior life there. I don't get the sense that they think or feel really anything other than what the writers decide they should think or feel to get them from point A to point B, no matter how contradictory those thoughts and feelings are to the thoughts and feelings they had last week, last month, or last year." - http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=12&story=4599

2003-03-24 01:12:17+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (erick@sfu.ca)


Shorty <notrealshorty@hotmail.com> wrote: >Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >>Shorty wrote: >>> Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >>> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >>> >>> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... >> >>Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It >>didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only >>mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > >It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of >power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. Yup, I recognised almost all of the words from the spell in Becoming 2. Except that she pronounced them quite differently this time. When she pronounced "fiintei" as fin-EET-ay, I found it kind of grating...and I don't even know any Rumanian :). -- Erick

2003-03-24 01:12:17+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (erick@sfu.ca)


Shorty <notrealshorty@hotmail.com> wrote: >Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >>Shorty wrote: >>> Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >>> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >>> >>> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... >> >>Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It >>didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only >>mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > >It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of >power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. Yup, I recognised almost all of the words from the spell in Becoming 2. Except that she pronounced them quite differently this time. When she pronounced "fiintei" as fin-EET-ay, I found it kind of grating...and I don't even know any Rumanian :). -- Erick

2003-03-24 01:43:13+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <9212108114164515.NC- 1.55.mathewignash@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com>, mathewignash@comcast.net says... > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:55:48 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > > > Shorty wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >Shorty wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > > > >> > > > > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It > > > > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only > > > > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > > > > > > > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of > > > > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. > > > > > > > > Shorty > > > > > > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in > > > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a > > > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. > > Maybe Willow published the spell? Gotta make money somehow! > > --- You answered David Johnston, not me. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-24 01:43:13+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <9212108114164515.NC- 1.55.mathewignash@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com>, mathewignash@comcast.net says... > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:55:48 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > > > Shorty wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >Shorty wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > > > >> > > > > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It > > > > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only > > > > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > > > > > > > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of > > > > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. > > > > > > > > Shorty > > > > > > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in > > > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a > > > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. > > Maybe Willow published the spell? Gotta make money somehow! > > --- You answered David Johnston, not me. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-24 08:30:20+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 01:43:13 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: >In article <9212108114164515.NC- >1.55.mathewignash@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com>, >mathewignash@comcast.net says... >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:55:48 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: >> >> > In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... >> > > Shorty wrote: >> > > > >> > > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > >Shorty wrote: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >> > > > >> >> > > > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... >> > > > >> >> > > > > >> > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It >> > > > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only >> > > > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. >> > > > >> > > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of >> > > > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. >> > > > >> > > > Shorty >> > > >> > > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in >> > > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a >> > > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. >> >> Maybe Willow published the spell? Gotta make money somehow! >> >> >--- >You answered David Johnston, not me. No he didn't. Didn't quote anything I said.

2003-03-24 08:30:20+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 01:43:13 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: >In article <9212108114164515.NC- >1.55.mathewignash@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com>, >mathewignash@comcast.net says... >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:55:48 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: >> >> > In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... >> > > Shorty wrote: >> > > > >> > > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > >Shorty wrote: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >> > > > >> >> > > > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... >> > > > >> >> > > > > >> > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It >> > > > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only >> > > > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. >> > > > >> > > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of >> > > > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. >> > > > >> > > > Shorty >> > > >> > > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in >> > > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a >> > > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. >> >> Maybe Willow published the spell? Gotta make money somehow! >> >> >--- >You answered David Johnston, not me. No he didn't. Didn't quote anything I said.

2003-03-24 10:29:38-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Morpheus <carterr@miskatonic.edu>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? What would have been the point? His chip made him harmless to humans anyway.

2003-03-24 10:29:38-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Morpheus <carterr@miskatonic.edu>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? What would have been the point? His chip made him harmless to humans anyway.

2003-03-24 12:39:14-08:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (himiko@animail.net)


"Morpheus" <carterr@miskatonic.edu> wrote in message news:<LvFfa.2553$945.7888@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>... > "Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > What would have been the point? His chip made him harmless to humans > anyway. A soul would, however, have made him more acceptable to Buffy as a bf and to the Scoobs as Buffy's bf...unless the happiness clause is embedded in the spell in which case, it would have put him off-limits as a bf. I suspect this kind of conundrum is one reason Buffy didn't want to tell her friends, especially not Willow who was big into doing things for other people's own good without asking at the time. himiko

2003-03-24 12:39:14-08:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (himiko@animail.net)


"Morpheus" <carterr@miskatonic.edu> wrote in message news:<LvFfa.2553$945.7888@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>... > "Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > What would have been the point? His chip made him harmless to humans > anyway. A soul would, however, have made him more acceptable to Buffy as a bf and to the Scoobs as Buffy's bf...unless the happiness clause is embedded in the spell in which case, it would have put him off-limits as a bf. I suspect this kind of conundrum is one reason Buffy didn't want to tell her friends, especially not Willow who was big into doing things for other people's own good without asking at the time. himiko

2003-03-24 21:16:57-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: > On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" > <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: > > > > >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that > includes the no true happiness clause. > > Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win > Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain conditions would cause it to flee back to the void?

2003-03-24 21:16:57-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: > On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" > <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: > > > > >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that > includes the no true happiness clause. > > Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win > Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain conditions would cause it to flee back to the void?

2003-03-24 22:01:26+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Chris Schumacher <kensu_@hotmail.com>)


On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 11:45:00 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >Since you seem to think that Willow was speaking Latin, when it was "Oz: Did I mention I didn't take Latin?" -Becoming, Pt. 2 There -was- a Latin component. I never said that the part that spoke when she was possessed there at the end was Latin. >Rumanian, (and I'm sure that any Rumanian speakers out there would tell >us her pronunciation was horrendous) I don't think much of your opinion >of the quality of the translation. When did I comment on the quality of the translation? I simply said that they didn't use the actual text of the spell that was translated--it was sloppiness on the Producers part. See below. >The only Latin in the spell was the first sentence read by Fred: > "Quod perditum est, invenietur." (What is lost, return.) The screen-text from Passion is as follows; "As the orb is round in nature, as the earth, is round in nature so is the soul. Return from whence you were banished, using this orb as your guide -- penetrate every ounce of the flesh, every sinew of the body, and every tissue of the heart. Make what lays before you more than the empty vessel that is animal, that is beast -- make it man as God created when he seperated the firament of the heaven from the Earth. Come forth now, return, return. As this orb burns, let life burn." As far as I saw, this was never read anywhere. And it would've made little sense to translate it -back- into Romanian. -==Kensu==-

2003-03-24 22:01:26+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Chris Schumacher <kensu_@hotmail.com>)


On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 11:45:00 -0500, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >Since you seem to think that Willow was speaking Latin, when it was "Oz: Did I mention I didn't take Latin?" -Becoming, Pt. 2 There -was- a Latin component. I never said that the part that spoke when she was possessed there at the end was Latin. >Rumanian, (and I'm sure that any Rumanian speakers out there would tell >us her pronunciation was horrendous) I don't think much of your opinion >of the quality of the translation. When did I comment on the quality of the translation? I simply said that they didn't use the actual text of the spell that was translated--it was sloppiness on the Producers part. See below. >The only Latin in the spell was the first sentence read by Fred: > "Quod perditum est, invenietur." (What is lost, return.) The screen-text from Passion is as follows; "As the orb is round in nature, as the earth, is round in nature so is the soul. Return from whence you were banished, using this orb as your guide -- penetrate every ounce of the flesh, every sinew of the body, and every tissue of the heart. Make what lays before you more than the empty vessel that is animal, that is beast -- make it man as God created when he seperated the firament of the heaven from the Earth. Come forth now, return, return. As this orb burns, let life burn." As far as I saw, this was never read anywhere. And it would've made little sense to translate it -back- into Romanian. -==Kensu==-

2003-03-24 22:44:28+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <3e7ec420.189759776@news.telusplanet.net>, rgorman@telusplanet.net says... > On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 01:43:13 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) > wrote: > > >In article <9212108114164515.NC- > >1.55.mathewignash@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com>, > >mathewignash@comcast.net says... > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:55:48 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > >> > >> > In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > >> > > Shorty wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > >Shorty wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It > >> > > > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only > >> > > > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > >> > > > > >> > > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of > >> > > > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. > >> > > > > >> > > > Shorty > >> > > > >> > > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in > >> > > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a > >> > > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. > >> > >> Maybe Willow published the spell? Gotta make money somehow! > >> > >> > >--- > >You answered David Johnston, not me. > > No he didn't. Didn't quote anything I said. > > --- That's right, sorry, he answered Carmilk, but he did it in my reply. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-24 22:44:28+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <3e7ec420.189759776@news.telusplanet.net>, rgorman@telusplanet.net says... > On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 01:43:13 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) > wrote: > > >In article <9212108114164515.NC- > >1.55.mathewignash@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com>, > >mathewignash@comcast.net says... > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 22:55:48 GMT, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > >> > >> > In article <3E7DF0F9.7F8629C1@rcn.com>, Carmikl@rcn.com says... > >> > > Shorty wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:46:53 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > >Shorty wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 04:14:12 -0800, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> >why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> It only works on Angel because of the curse. Find a new nitpick... > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > >Do we know that she used the Orb of Thessula to restore Angel's soul? It > >> > > > >didn't look like the same spell she used in season two. She only > >> > > > >mentioned that she tried a stand alone spell. > >> > > > > >> > > > It was the same spell. She even said 'Ocum' again...the final word of > >> > > > power. And it was 4.5 seasons ago. > >> > > > > >> > > > Shorty > >> > > > >> > > Kind of interesting that the spell using the Orb of Thessula was in > >> > > Fred's ancient books when the only known source in season two was a > >> > > floppy disc made by Jenny Calendar. > >> > >> Maybe Willow published the spell? Gotta make money somehow! > >> > >> > >--- > >You answered David Johnston, not me. > > No he didn't. Didn't quote anything I said. > > --- That's right, sorry, he answered Carmilk, but he did it in my reply. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-24 23:40:20+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Chris Schumacher <kensu_@hotmail.com>)


On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:26:58 -0600, Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> wrote: > >Neat... where did you get this from? I used to have an older version of PowerDVD that let you take snapshots, but for some odd reason it's switched off (on the DVDs at least) in the later versions. I got the text from an old e-mail I wrote to someone on the same subject, as noted I lost the original file when I put Linux on my old machine. If you'd like to see this for yourself, it's in Passion, about halfway or so through (it's when Jenny Calendar discovers that Angel's in the classroom--well a few moments beforehand.) Freeze frame when it shows the screen. -==Kensu==-

2003-03-24 23:40:20+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Chris Schumacher <kensu_@hotmail.com>)


On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 16:26:58 -0600, Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> wrote: > >Neat... where did you get this from? I used to have an older version of PowerDVD that let you take snapshots, but for some odd reason it's switched off (on the DVDs at least) in the later versions. I got the text from an old e-mail I wrote to someone on the same subject, as noted I lost the original file when I put Linux on my old machine. If you'd like to see this for yourself, it's in Passion, about halfway or so through (it's when Jenny Calendar discovers that Angel's in the classroom--well a few moments beforehand.) Freeze frame when it shows the screen. -==Kensu==-

2003-03-25 03:05:57+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com)


On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: > >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that includes the no true happiness clause. Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause.

2003-03-25 03:05:57+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com)


On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: > >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that includes the no true happiness clause. Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause.

2003-03-25 12:28:52-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> rose up and issued forth: >In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, > samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: > >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" >> <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: >> >> > >> >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message >> >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... >> >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >> >> She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that >> includes the no true happiness clause. >> >> Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win >> Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. > >We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the >spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The >spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of >left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they >know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a >vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain >conditions would cause it to flee back to the void? Sorry, but we do in fact know it was a product of the spell. Jenny's uncle was pretty specific about it. |Enyos: The curse. Angel is meant to suffer, not to live as human. One |moment of true happiness, of contentment, one moment where the soul |that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is |taken from him. -- Cyo cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." - Mandy Patinkin, "The Princess Bride"

2003-03-25 12:28:52-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> rose up and issued forth: >In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, > samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: > >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" >> <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: >> >> > >> >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message >> >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... >> >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >> >> She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that >> includes the no true happiness clause. >> >> Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win >> Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. > >We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the >spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The >spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of >left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they >know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a >vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain >conditions would cause it to flee back to the void? Sorry, but we do in fact know it was a product of the spell. Jenny's uncle was pretty specific about it. |Enyos: The curse. Angel is meant to suffer, not to live as human. One |moment of true happiness, of contentment, one moment where the soul |that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is |taken from him. -- Cyo cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." - Mandy Patinkin, "The Princess Bride"

2003-03-25 17:37:50-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <rm718v4jvtc35tve44359bujl175d08pvc@4ax.com>, Rev. Cyohtee - O'k?home Ehohatse <cyohtee@barbarian.org> wrote: > Out of the ether Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> rose up and issued > forth: > > >In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, > > samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: > > > >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" > >> <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > >> >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > >> >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >> > >> She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that > >> includes the no true happiness clause. > >> > >> Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win > >> Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. > > > >We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the > >spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The > >spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of > >left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they > >know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a > >vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain > >conditions would cause it to flee back to the void? > > Sorry, but we do in fact know it was a product of the spell. Jenny's > uncle was pretty specific about it. > > |Enyos: The curse. Angel is meant to suffer, not to live as human. One > |moment of true happiness, of contentment, one moment where the soul > |that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is > |taken from him. Then the gypsies had no idea what they wanted or were doing. Angelus has stated that he was the most tortured when Angel was the most happy. He hates Buffy because she made him feel human... Angel living as a human, being happy and feeling guilt drove Angelus nuts. Are we to believe that the gypsies were so stupid that they would forgo revenage and vengence because they didn't understand the difference between Angel and Angelus. Yes... its fanwank but I'd rather believe that Enyos didn't know shit and that in addition to lossing the knowledge of the magics that caused the curse they also forget the actual reason for the curse in the first place.

2003-03-25 17:37:50-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <rm718v4jvtc35tve44359bujl175d08pvc@4ax.com>, Rev. Cyohtee - O'k?home Ehohatse <cyohtee@barbarian.org> wrote: > Out of the ether Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> rose up and issued > forth: > > >In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, > > samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: > > > >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" > >> <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > >> >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > >> >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >> > >> She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that > >> includes the no true happiness clause. > >> > >> Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win > >> Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. > > > >We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the > >spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The > >spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of > >left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they > >know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a > >vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain > >conditions would cause it to flee back to the void? > > Sorry, but we do in fact know it was a product of the spell. Jenny's > uncle was pretty specific about it. > > |Enyos: The curse. Angel is meant to suffer, not to live as human. One > |moment of true happiness, of contentment, one moment where the soul > |that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is > |taken from him. Then the gypsies had no idea what they wanted or were doing. Angelus has stated that he was the most tortured when Angel was the most happy. He hates Buffy because she made him feel human... Angel living as a human, being happy and feeling guilt drove Angelus nuts. Are we to believe that the gypsies were so stupid that they would forgo revenage and vengence because they didn't understand the difference between Angel and Angelus. Yes... its fanwank but I'd rather believe that Enyos didn't know shit and that in addition to lossing the knowledge of the magics that caused the curse they also forget the actual reason for the curse in the first place.

2003-03-26 01:46:38-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> rose up and issued forth: >In article <rm718v4jvtc35tve44359bujl175d08pvc@4ax.com>, > Rev. Cyohtee - O'k?home Ehohatse <cyohtee@barbarian.org> wrote: > >> Out of the ether Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> rose up and issued >> forth: >> >> >In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, >> > samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: >> > >> >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" >> >> <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message >> >> >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... >> >> >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >> >> >> >> She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that >> >> includes the no true happiness clause. >> >> >> >> Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win >> >> Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. >> > >> >We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the >> >spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The >> >spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of >> >left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they >> >know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a >> >vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain >> >conditions would cause it to flee back to the void? >> >> Sorry, but we do in fact know it was a product of the spell. Jenny's >> uncle was pretty specific about it. >> >> |Enyos: The curse. Angel is meant to suffer, not to live as human. One >> |moment of true happiness, of contentment, one moment where the soul >> |that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is >> |taken from him. > >Then the gypsies had no idea what they wanted or were doing. Angelus has >stated that he was the most tortured when Angel was the most happy. He >hates Buffy because she made him feel human... Angel living as a human, >being happy and feeling guilt drove Angelus nuts. Are we to believe that >the gypsies were so stupid that they would forgo revenage and vengence >because they didn't understand the difference between Angel and Angelus. >Yes... its fanwank but I'd rather believe that Enyos didn't know shit >and that in addition to lossing the knowledge of the magics that caused >the curse they also forget the actual reason for the curse in the first >place. I think you need to rewatch season 2 again. The gypsies didn't differentiate between Angel and Angelus. They wanted vengence, not justice. They didn't care if the soul they put in was the one to suffer because they didn't see a difference between the demon and the soul. They share the same memories, they are the same person, as far as they gypsies cared. -- Cyo cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org "Sooner or later, a man's gotta face his demons." - Mulder

2003-03-26 01:46:38-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> rose up and issued forth: >In article <rm718v4jvtc35tve44359bujl175d08pvc@4ax.com>, > Rev. Cyohtee - O'k?home Ehohatse <cyohtee@barbarian.org> wrote: > >> Out of the ether Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> rose up and issued >> forth: >> >> >In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, >> > samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: >> > >> >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" >> >> <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: >> >> >> >> > >> >> >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message >> >> >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... >> >> >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >> >> >> >> She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that >> >> includes the no true happiness clause. >> >> >> >> Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win >> >> Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. >> > >> >We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the >> >spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The >> >spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of >> >left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they >> >know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a >> >vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain >> >conditions would cause it to flee back to the void? >> >> Sorry, but we do in fact know it was a product of the spell. Jenny's >> uncle was pretty specific about it. >> >> |Enyos: The curse. Angel is meant to suffer, not to live as human. One >> |moment of true happiness, of contentment, one moment where the soul >> |that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is >> |taken from him. > >Then the gypsies had no idea what they wanted or were doing. Angelus has >stated that he was the most tortured when Angel was the most happy. He >hates Buffy because she made him feel human... Angel living as a human, >being happy and feeling guilt drove Angelus nuts. Are we to believe that >the gypsies were so stupid that they would forgo revenage and vengence >because they didn't understand the difference between Angel and Angelus. >Yes... its fanwank but I'd rather believe that Enyos didn't know shit >and that in addition to lossing the knowledge of the magics that caused >the curse they also forget the actual reason for the curse in the first >place. I think you need to rewatch season 2 again. The gypsies didn't differentiate between Angel and Angelus. They wanted vengence, not justice. They didn't care if the soul they put in was the one to suffer because they didn't see a difference between the demon and the soul. They share the same memories, they are the same person, as far as they gypsies cared. -- Cyo cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org "Sooner or later, a man's gotta face his demons." - Mulder

2003-03-26 08:08:21-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <7hm28v05nqhoa43v420964v3oltcg8jnt9@4ax.com>, Rev. Cyohtee - O'k?home Ehohatse <cyohtee@barbarian.org> wrote: > Out of the ether Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> rose up and issued forth: > > >In article <rm718v4jvtc35tve44359bujl175d08pvc@4ax.com>, > > Rev. Cyohtee - O'k?home Ehohatse <cyohtee@barbarian.org> wrote: > > > >> Out of the ether Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> rose up and issued > >> forth: > >> > >> >In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, > >> > samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" > >> >> <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > >> >> >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > >> >> >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >> >> > >> >> She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that > >> >> includes the no true happiness clause. > >> >> > >> >> Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win > >> >> Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. > >> > > >> >We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the > >> >spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The > >> >spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of > >> >left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they > >> >know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a > >> >vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain > >> >conditions would cause it to flee back to the void? > >> > >> Sorry, but we do in fact know it was a product of the spell. Jenny's > >> uncle was pretty specific about it. > >> > >> |Enyos: The curse. Angel is meant to suffer, not to live as human. One > >> |moment of true happiness, of contentment, one moment where the soul > >> |that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is > >> |taken from him. > > > >Then the gypsies had no idea what they wanted or were doing. Angelus has > >stated that he was the most tortured when Angel was the most happy. He > >hates Buffy because she made him feel human... Angel living as a human, > >being happy and feeling guilt drove Angelus nuts. Are we to believe that > >the gypsies were so stupid that they would forgo revenage and vengence > >because they didn't understand the difference between Angel and Angelus. > >Yes... its fanwank but I'd rather believe that Enyos didn't know shit > >and that in addition to lossing the knowledge of the magics that caused > >the curse they also forget the actual reason for the curse in the first > >place. > > I think you need to rewatch season 2 again. The gypsies didn't > differentiate between Angel and Angelus. They wanted vengence, not > justice. They didn't care if the soul they put in was the one to > suffer because they didn't see a difference between the demon and the > soul. They share the same memories, they are the same person, as far > as they gypsies cared. Oh.... I got that. I know they didn't care about the soul of Angel. They were perfectly willing to torture that soul to get what they wanted, the punishment of Angelus. But by not seeing the difference between Angelus and Angel they screw up their own vengence. When Angel is happy, Angelus is in pain. I just find it hard to believe that the people who cursed Angelus couldn't tell the difference. Dumb gypsies.

2003-03-26 08:08:21-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <7hm28v05nqhoa43v420964v3oltcg8jnt9@4ax.com>, Rev. Cyohtee - O'k?home Ehohatse <cyohtee@barbarian.org> wrote: > Out of the ether Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> rose up and issued forth: > > >In article <rm718v4jvtc35tve44359bujl175d08pvc@4ax.com>, > > Rev. Cyohtee - O'k?home Ehohatse <cyohtee@barbarian.org> wrote: > > > >> Out of the ether Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> rose up and issued > >> forth: > >> > >> >In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, > >> > samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" > >> >> <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > >> >> >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > >> >> >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >> >> > >> >> She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that > >> >> includes the no true happiness clause. > >> >> > >> >> Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win > >> >> Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. > >> > > >> >We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the > >> >spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The > >> >spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of > >> >left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they > >> >know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a > >> >vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain > >> >conditions would cause it to flee back to the void? > >> > >> Sorry, but we do in fact know it was a product of the spell. Jenny's > >> uncle was pretty specific about it. > >> > >> |Enyos: The curse. Angel is meant to suffer, not to live as human. One > >> |moment of true happiness, of contentment, one moment where the soul > >> |that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is > >> |taken from him. > > > >Then the gypsies had no idea what they wanted or were doing. Angelus has > >stated that he was the most tortured when Angel was the most happy. He > >hates Buffy because she made him feel human... Angel living as a human, > >being happy and feeling guilt drove Angelus nuts. Are we to believe that > >the gypsies were so stupid that they would forgo revenage and vengence > >because they didn't understand the difference between Angel and Angelus. > >Yes... its fanwank but I'd rather believe that Enyos didn't know shit > >and that in addition to lossing the knowledge of the magics that caused > >the curse they also forget the actual reason for the curse in the first > >place. > > I think you need to rewatch season 2 again. The gypsies didn't > differentiate between Angel and Angelus. They wanted vengence, not > justice. They didn't care if the soul they put in was the one to > suffer because they didn't see a difference between the demon and the > soul. They share the same memories, they are the same person, as far > as they gypsies cared. Oh.... I got that. I know they didn't care about the soul of Angel. They were perfectly willing to torture that soul to get what they wanted, the punishment of Angelus. But by not seeing the difference between Angelus and Angel they screw up their own vengence. When Angel is happy, Angelus is in pain. I just find it hard to believe that the people who cursed Angelus couldn't tell the difference. Dumb gypsies.

2003-03-26 13:10:37-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> rose up and issued forth: >Oh.... I got that. I know they didn't care about the soul of Angel. They >were perfectly willing to torture that soul to get what they wanted, the >punishment of Angelus. But by not seeing the difference between Angelus >and Angel they screw up their own vengence. When Angel is happy, Angelus >is in pain. I just find it hard to believe that the people who cursed >Angelus couldn't tell the difference. Dumb gypsies. Well, yes, and Jenny even says so onscreen so it is canon that they are stupid... |Enyos: Yes. It is not justice we serve. It is vengeance. | |Jenny: (exhales and grabs her coat and bag) You are a fool. We're all |fools. | -- Cyo cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org "If your lies are going to be this transparent, this is going to be a very short interrogation" -- Kira "Then I'll try to make my lies more opaque..." -- Gul Darhe'el

2003-03-26 13:10:37-06:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> rose up and issued forth: >Oh.... I got that. I know they didn't care about the soul of Angel. They >were perfectly willing to torture that soul to get what they wanted, the >punishment of Angelus. But by not seeing the difference between Angelus >and Angel they screw up their own vengence. When Angel is happy, Angelus >is in pain. I just find it hard to believe that the people who cursed >Angelus couldn't tell the difference. Dumb gypsies. Well, yes, and Jenny even says so onscreen so it is canon that they are stupid... |Enyos: Yes. It is not justice we serve. It is vengeance. | |Jenny: (exhales and grabs her coat and bag) You are a fool. We're all |fools. | -- Cyo cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org "If your lies are going to be this transparent, this is going to be a very short interrogation" -- Kira "Then I'll try to make my lies more opaque..." -- Gul Darhe'el

2003-03-27 00:57:59+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com)


On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:16:57 -0600, Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote: >In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, > samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: > >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" >> <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: >> >> > >> >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message >> >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... >> >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >> >> She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that >> includes the no true happiness clause. >> >> Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win >> Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. > >We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the >spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The >spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of >left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they >know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a >vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain >conditions would cause it to flee back to the void? You have to follow fairy tale logic as Kennedy would say. A curse always has to have the means of undoing it, from the kiss of the prince to saying the dwarf's name. In the case of the soul curse, when Angel is no longer miserable, when he has a moment of true happiness that means he is no longer being punished, the punishment (the soul) vanishes.

2003-03-27 00:57:59+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com)


On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:16:57 -0600, Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote: >In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, > samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: > >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" >> <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: >> >> > >> >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message >> >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... >> >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? >> >> She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that >> includes the no true happiness clause. >> >> Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win >> Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. > >We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the >spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The >spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of >left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they >know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a >vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain >conditions would cause it to flee back to the void? You have to follow fairy tale logic as Kennedy would say. A curse always has to have the means of undoing it, from the kiss of the prince to saying the dwarf's name. In the case of the soul curse, when Angel is no longer miserable, when he has a moment of true happiness that means he is no longer being punished, the punishment (the soul) vanishes.

2003-03-27 13:55:52-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (David Cheatham <david@creeknet.com>)


In article <3e81284f.6488786@news.fu-berlin.de>, samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com says... > On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:16:57 -0600, Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> > wrote: > > >In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, > > samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: > > > >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" > >> <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > >> >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > >> >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >> > >> She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that > >> includes the no true happiness clause. > >> > >> Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win > >> Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. > > > >We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the > >spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The > >spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of > >left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they > >know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a > >vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain > >conditions would cause it to flee back to the void? > > You have to follow fairy tale logic as Kennedy would say. A curse > always has to have the means of undoing it, from the kiss of the > prince to saying the dwarf's name. In the case of the soul curse, > when Angel is no longer miserable, when he has a moment of true > happiness that means he is no longer being punished, the punishment > (the soul) vanishes. And this is the plot in about every story with a curse in it. Someone has a curse on them to prevent them from doing X by making them a frog or unable to talk or something, and they manage to do X anyway, and the curse instantly breaks all the way. The thing that's tripping everyone else up is that they see the curse as a *good* thing. If Liam was somehow wandering around and cursed with memories of someone else killing people to keep him from finding perfect happiness, and then he found it anyway and lost the memories, no one would flinch, it's a standard fairy tale.

2003-03-27 13:55:52-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (David Cheatham <david@creeknet.com>)


In article <3e81284f.6488786@news.fu-berlin.de>, samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com says... > On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 21:16:57 -0600, Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> > wrote: > > >In article <3e7e8a2a.16768582@news.fu-berlin.de>, > > samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Sam James) wrote: > > > >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:51:58 +0100, "Laruuk" > >> <youngs.in.germany@t-online.de> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> >"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > >> >news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > >> >> why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > >> > >> She could have. But it would be with the spell she knows and that > >> includes the no true happiness clause. > >> > >> Naturally, since Spike's main motivation for getting a soul was to win > >> Buffy's acceptance and love, he didn't want the no happiness clause. > > > >We really don't know if the "happiness clause" was a product of the > >spell or simple the end result of ensouling a vampire, an vampire. The > >spell Willow used never mentions a "happiness clause" so one is sort of > >left wondering how it came about. The gypsies knew about it but did they > >know about it because they included it somehow or because they knew a > >vampire's body was not the natural resting place for a soul and certain > >conditions would cause it to flee back to the void? > > You have to follow fairy tale logic as Kennedy would say. A curse > always has to have the means of undoing it, from the kiss of the > prince to saying the dwarf's name. In the case of the soul curse, > when Angel is no longer miserable, when he has a moment of true > happiness that means he is no longer being punished, the punishment > (the soul) vanishes. And this is the plot in about every story with a curse in it. Someone has a curse on them to prevent them from doing X by making them a frog or unable to talk or something, and they manage to do X anyway, and the curse instantly breaks all the way. The thing that's tripping everyone else up is that they see the curse as a *good* thing. If Liam was somehow wandering around and cursed with memories of someone else killing people to keep him from finding perfect happiness, and then he found it anyway and lost the memories, no one would flinch, it's a standard fairy tale.

2003-04-19 06:12:23-07:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


Laruuk wrote: > "Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > I'm sure she could have. > > Funny thing is, Spike didn't ask her to. Niether did Angelus!

2003-04-19 06:12:23-07:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


Laruuk wrote: > "Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > I'm sure she could have. > > Funny thing is, Spike didn't ask her to. Niether did Angelus!

2003-04-19 11:32:27-03:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Deanie <deaniebee@hotmail.com>)


The real question is.. why is it that Willow can go to Angel and be perfectly comfortable brewing up the magics? but still be a frightened magical cripple on Buffy? So silly.. they've turned all the major characters into some kind of cripple this season.. egh! Deanie "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message news:3EA14B37.CB25F850@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us... > > > Laruuk wrote: > > > "Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > > news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > > > I'm sure she could have. > > > > Funny thing is, Spike didn't ask her to. > > Niether did Angelus! > >

2003-04-19 11:32:27-03:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a soul - (Deanie <deaniebee@hotmail.com>)


The real question is.. why is it that Willow can go to Angel and be perfectly comfortable brewing up the magics? but still be a frightened magical cripple on Buffy? So silly.. they've turned all the major characters into some kind of cripple this season.. egh! Deanie "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message news:3EA14B37.CB25F850@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us... > > > Laruuk wrote: > > > "Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message > > news:3E7DA514.8CB72698@rcn.com... > > > why couldn't she have restored Spike's soul? > > > > I'm sure she could have. > > > > Funny thing is, Spike didn't ask her to. > > Niether did Angelus! > >

2003-04-19 12:37:06-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <b7s10j$9ma$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's > eye? Because Xander's eye is in heaven and it would be wrong to bring it back.

2003-04-19 12:37:06-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <b7s10j$9ma$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's > eye? Because Xander's eye is in heaven and it would be wrong to bring it back.

2003-04-19 12:39:05-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - ("Rick Ramey, Celestial Engineer" <rickramey@qhotmail.com>)


On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 17:28:51 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: >If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's >eye? Because Buffy lost her life in a mystical nature and there was nothing magical about the way Xander got his eye gouged out. Them's the rules this week.

2003-04-19 12:39:05-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - ("Rick Ramey, Celestial Engineer" <rickramey@qhotmail.com>)


On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 17:28:51 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: >If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's >eye? Because Buffy lost her life in a mystical nature and there was nothing magical about the way Xander got his eye gouged out. Them's the rules this week.

2003-04-19 18:32:18+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net>)


In article <b7s10j$9ma$1@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's > eye? who says that she won't. they were dealing with a guy that was seriously hurt, perhaps more than just the eye,was likely in shock and none of them are doctors. get him stablized and then deal with the eye

2003-04-19 18:32:18+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net>)


In article <b7s10j$9ma$1@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's > eye? who says that she won't. they were dealing with a guy that was seriously hurt, perhaps more than just the eye,was likely in shock and none of them are doctors. get him stablized and then deal with the eye

2003-04-19 21:02:23-04:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (Tom Breton <tehom@REMOVEpanNOSPAMix.com>)


"Rick Ramey, Celestial Engineer" <rickramey@qhotmail.com> writes: > On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 17:28:51 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > >If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's > >eye? > > Because Buffy lost her life in a mystical nature and there was nothing > magical about the way Xander got his eye gouged out. > > Them's the rules this week. Yes, but it wasn't the rule in STSP when the gnarl skinned Willow and she meditated the damage away, or in Villains when she took the bullet out of Buffy. -- Tom Breton at panix.com, username tehom. http://www.panix.com/~tehom

2003-04-19 21:02:23-04:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (Tom Breton <tehom@REMOVEpanNOSPAMix.com>)


"Rick Ramey, Celestial Engineer" <rickramey@qhotmail.com> writes: > On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 17:28:51 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > >If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's > >eye? > > Because Buffy lost her life in a mystical nature and there was nothing > magical about the way Xander got his eye gouged out. > > Them's the rules this week. Yes, but it wasn't the rule in STSP when the gnarl skinned Willow and she meditated the damage away, or in Villains when she took the bullet out of Buffy. -- Tom Breton at panix.com, username tehom. http://www.panix.com/~tehom

2003-04-20 03:22:55+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 17:28:51 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: >If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's >eye? She could. It would just be criminally stupid.

2003-04-20 03:22:55+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 17:28:51 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: >If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's >eye? She could. It would just be criminally stupid.

2003-04-20 13:07:07-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <3ea2dbe2.146900825@news.telusplanet.net>, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote: > On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:28:22 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > >In article <3ea214af.95898463@news.telusplanet.net>, > >David Johnston <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote: > >>>If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore > >>>Xander's > >>>eye? > >>She could. It would just be criminally stupid. > > > >Bringing Buffy from the dead had no real bad consequences except a demon > >that > >was killed in one episode. > > As long as you ignore the First. OK, maybe Anya is wrong in believing > that bringing Buffy back from the dead is what caused > the current situation, but I haven't seen much in the way of other > theories. Spoiler Space..... Although it contradicts what the Eye told Anya and Giles the script that's floating around says it was Dawn that created the rift in the Slayer line. Since she was "made from Buffy" both Dawn and Buffy would need to die to for a new Slayer to be called, they're like one person now. However, I would guess Faith's death could call a new Slayer. However we can't be sure how much the Monks' spell messed things up since Dawn didn't really exisit when Kendra died. If she had maybe Faith would never have been called.

2003-04-20 13:07:07-05:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <3ea2dbe2.146900825@news.telusplanet.net>, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote: > On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:28:22 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > >In article <3ea214af.95898463@news.telusplanet.net>, > >David Johnston <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote: > >>>If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore > >>>Xander's > >>>eye? > >>She could. It would just be criminally stupid. > > > >Bringing Buffy from the dead had no real bad consequences except a demon > >that > >was killed in one episode. > > As long as you ignore the First. OK, maybe Anya is wrong in believing > that bringing Buffy back from the dead is what caused > the current situation, but I haven't seen much in the way of other > theories. Spoiler Space..... Although it contradicts what the Eye told Anya and Giles the script that's floating around says it was Dawn that created the rift in the Slayer line. Since she was "made from Buffy" both Dawn and Buffy would need to die to for a new Slayer to be called, they're like one person now. However, I would guess Faith's death could call a new Slayer. However we can't be sure how much the Monks' spell messed things up since Dawn didn't really exisit when Kendra died. If she had maybe Faith would never have been called.

2003-04-20 17:36:35+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:28:22 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: >In article <3ea214af.95898463@news.telusplanet.net>, >David Johnston <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote: >>>If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's >>>eye? >>She could. It would just be criminally stupid. > >Bringing Buffy from the dead had no real bad consequences except a demon that >was killed in one episode. As long as you ignore the First. OK, maybe Anya is wrong in believing that bringing Buffy back from the dead is what caused the current situation, but I haven't seen much in the way of other theories. Yes, it stole Buffy away from her supernatural >high, but we've pretty much seen since then that life is, even on this series, >supposed to be a good thing, and she was better off alive than dead, no >matter how much she thought her friends were "safe" when they weren't. The point is, magic on Buffy tends to go unpredictably awry when used on mundane problems for anything except simple destruction. Giving Xander his eye back would be playing Russian Roulette with his body and his mind.

2003-04-20 17:36:35+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:28:22 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: >In article <3ea214af.95898463@news.telusplanet.net>, >David Johnston <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote: >>>If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's >>>eye? >>She could. It would just be criminally stupid. > >Bringing Buffy from the dead had no real bad consequences except a demon that >was killed in one episode. As long as you ignore the First. OK, maybe Anya is wrong in believing that bringing Buffy back from the dead is what caused the current situation, but I haven't seen much in the way of other theories. Yes, it stole Buffy away from her supernatural >high, but we've pretty much seen since then that life is, even on this series, >supposed to be a good thing, and she was better off alive than dead, no >matter how much she thought her friends were "safe" when they weren't. The point is, magic on Buffy tends to go unpredictably awry when used on mundane problems for anything except simple destruction. Giving Xander his eye back would be playing Russian Roulette with his body and his mind.

2003-04-23 15:58:34+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com)


On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 17:36:35 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote: >On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:28:22 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net >(Ken Arromdee) wrote: > >>In article <3ea214af.95898463@news.telusplanet.net>, >>David Johnston <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote: >>>>If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's >>>>eye? >>>She could. It would just be criminally stupid. >> >>Bringing Buffy from the dead had no real bad consequences except a demon that >>was killed in one episode. > >As long as you ignore the First. OK, maybe Anya is wrong in believing >that bringing Buffy back from the dead is what caused >the current situation, but I haven't seen much in the way of other >theories. Except that Buffy had already been brought back from the dead once before which created the two slayer situation. If anything disrupted the slayer line it would have been the first revival, not the second

2003-04-23 15:58:34+00:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (samjames1NOSPAM@yahoo.com)


On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 17:36:35 GMT, rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote: >On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:28:22 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net >(Ken Arromdee) wrote: > >>In article <3ea214af.95898463@news.telusplanet.net>, >>David Johnston <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote: >>>>If she could bring back Buffy from the dead, why can't she restore Xander's >>>>eye? >>>She could. It would just be criminally stupid. >> >>Bringing Buffy from the dead had no real bad consequences except a demon that >>was killed in one episode. > >As long as you ignore the First. OK, maybe Anya is wrong in believing >that bringing Buffy back from the dead is what caused >the current situation, but I haven't seen much in the way of other >theories. Except that Buffy had already been brought back from the dead once before which created the two slayer situation. If anything disrupted the slayer line it would have been the first revival, not the second

2003-04-23 17:48:01+01:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (Mark Smith <smudger123NOSPAM@blueyonder.co.uk>)


If anything disrupted > the slayer line it would have been the first revival, not the second However that was a normal resuscitation mouth to mouth) not a paranormal one (magic).

2003-04-23 17:48:01+01:00 - Re: So if Willow can restore a life - (Mark Smith <smudger123NOSPAM@blueyonder.co.uk>)


If anything disrupted > the slayer line it would have been the first revival, not the second However that was a normal resuscitation mouth to mouth) not a paranormal one (magic).