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2003-02-13 10:24:19-08:00 - Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (bergeg@parl.gc.ca)


Well, thanks to Rick S. for pointing this out in another thread but I thought it should be posted here so that it doesn't go unseen. Jane Espenson stopped by the Bronze tuesday night and clarified that moment. The quote : "Xander wasn't tied up over the seal yet when he texted Willow! Because *obviously* he can't text her *after* he's tied, so, clearly, he must have done it *after* she betrayed her intent, and *before* he was tied! Ergo... I would imagine that our observant viewers will realize that there must have been an appropriate moemnt -- for example, he regained consciousness in the back of her car and realized he was in trouble!!!." Here's the link, if you are interested. http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~hsiao/media/tv/buffy/bronze/20030211.html Hope this helps.

2003-02-13 10:24:19-08:00 - Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (bergeg@parl.gc.ca)


Well, thanks to Rick S. for pointing this out in another thread but I thought it should be posted here so that it doesn't go unseen. Jane Espenson stopped by the Bronze tuesday night and clarified that moment. The quote : "Xander wasn't tied up over the seal yet when he texted Willow! Because *obviously* he can't text her *after* he's tied, so, clearly, he must have done it *after* she betrayed her intent, and *before* he was tied! Ergo... I would imagine that our observant viewers will realize that there must have been an appropriate moemnt -- for example, he regained consciousness in the back of her car and realized he was in trouble!!!." Here's the link, if you are interested. http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~hsiao/media/tv/buffy/bronze/20030211.html Hope this helps.

2003-02-13 12:56:17-08:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Ben Anspach wrote: > > NightBaron wrote: > > > > Well, thanks to Rick S. for pointing this out in another thread but I > > thought it should be posted here so that it doesn't go unseen. > > > > Jane Espenson stopped by the Bronze tuesday night and clarified that > > moment. The quote : > > > > "Xander wasn't tied up over the seal yet when he texted Willow! > > Because *obviously* he can't text her *after* he's tied, so, clearly, > > he must have done it *after* she betrayed her intent, and *before* he > > was tied! Ergo... I would imagine that our observant viewers will > > realize that there must have been an appropriate moemnt -- for > > example, he regained consciousness in the back of her car and realized > > he was in trouble!!!." > > > > Here's the link, if you are interested. > > > > http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~hsiao/media/tv/buffy/bronze/20030211.html > > Writers really should read fan speculation before confirming/denying > anything. Don's theory of Xander actually sending the "I'm getting laid > code" makes much more sense than this. > > Ben Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control.

2003-02-13 12:56:17-08:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Ben Anspach wrote: > > NightBaron wrote: > > > > Well, thanks to Rick S. for pointing this out in another thread but I > > thought it should be posted here so that it doesn't go unseen. > > > > Jane Espenson stopped by the Bronze tuesday night and clarified that > > moment. The quote : > > > > "Xander wasn't tied up over the seal yet when he texted Willow! > > Because *obviously* he can't text her *after* he's tied, so, clearly, > > he must have done it *after* she betrayed her intent, and *before* he > > was tied! Ergo... I would imagine that our observant viewers will > > realize that there must have been an appropriate moemnt -- for > > example, he regained consciousness in the back of her car and realized > > he was in trouble!!!." > > > > Here's the link, if you are interested. > > > > http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~hsiao/media/tv/buffy/bronze/20030211.html > > Writers really should read fan speculation before confirming/denying > anything. Don's theory of Xander actually sending the "I'm getting laid > code" makes much more sense than this. > > Ben Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control.

2003-02-13 15:11:35-08:00 - How did Spike know about the locator spell? - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Jane Davitt wrote: > > Carmikl wrote: > > > > > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > > I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator > spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He > didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > > Jane > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I think if all the plot holes were added up, this episode would probably have more than the last. I was wondering how Spike got to the restaurant so fast, or even found the restaurant since it was hidden down that long alley.

2003-02-13 15:11:35-08:00 - How did Spike know about the locator spell? - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Jane Davitt wrote: > > Carmikl wrote: > > > > > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > > I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator > spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He > didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > > Jane > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I think if all the plot holes were added up, this episode would probably have more than the last. I was wondering how Spike got to the restaurant so fast, or even found the restaurant since it was hidden down that long alley.

2003-02-13 20:45:02+01:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Ben Anspach <removethisAnspen@hotmail.com>)


NightBaron wrote: > > Well, thanks to Rick S. for pointing this out in another thread but I > thought it should be posted here so that it doesn't go unseen. > > Jane Espenson stopped by the Bronze tuesday night and clarified that > moment. The quote : > > "Xander wasn't tied up over the seal yet when he texted Willow! > Because *obviously* he can't text her *after* he's tied, so, clearly, > he must have done it *after* she betrayed her intent, and *before* he > was tied! Ergo... I would imagine that our observant viewers will > realize that there must have been an appropriate moemnt -- for > example, he regained consciousness in the back of her car and realized > he was in trouble!!!." > > Here's the link, if you are interested. > > http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~hsiao/media/tv/buffy/bronze/20030211.html Writers really should read fan speculation before confirming/denying anything. Don's theory of Xander actually sending the "I'm getting laid code" makes much more sense than this. Ben

2003-02-13 20:45:02+01:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Ben Anspach <removethisAnspen@hotmail.com>)


NightBaron wrote: > > Well, thanks to Rick S. for pointing this out in another thread but I > thought it should be posted here so that it doesn't go unseen. > > Jane Espenson stopped by the Bronze tuesday night and clarified that > moment. The quote : > > "Xander wasn't tied up over the seal yet when he texted Willow! > Because *obviously* he can't text her *after* he's tied, so, clearly, > he must have done it *after* she betrayed her intent, and *before* he > was tied! Ergo... I would imagine that our observant viewers will > realize that there must have been an appropriate moemnt -- for > example, he regained consciousness in the back of her car and realized > he was in trouble!!!." > > Here's the link, if you are interested. > > http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~hsiao/media/tv/buffy/bronze/20030211.html Writers really should read fan speculation before confirming/denying anything. Don's theory of Xander actually sending the "I'm getting laid code" makes much more sense than this. Ben

2003-02-13 22:07:18+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>)


Carmikl wrote: > > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. Jane -- My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516 and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html

2003-02-13 22:07:18+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>)


Carmikl wrote: > > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. Jane -- My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at http://members.rogers.com/jdavitt01/index.html http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516 and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html

2003-02-14 05:16:51-08:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Jane Davitt wrote: > > Carmikl wrote: > > > > > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > > I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator > spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He > didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > > Jane > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I was wondering how Spike got to the restaurant so fast, or even found the restaurant since it was hidden down that long alley. In the show apparently Spike says that he can follow her scent. That line isn't in the script so someone probably thought up that line during shooting to cover what they realized was a large plot hole. Since Buffy was traveling in car Wood's car, it would seem kinda hard for Spike to follow her scent.

2003-02-14 05:16:51-08:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Jane Davitt wrote: > > Carmikl wrote: > > > > > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > > I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator > spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He > didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > > Jane > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I was wondering how Spike got to the restaurant so fast, or even found the restaurant since it was hidden down that long alley. In the show apparently Spike says that he can follow her scent. That line isn't in the script so someone probably thought up that line during shooting to cover what they realized was a large plot hole. Since Buffy was traveling in car Wood's car, it would seem kinda hard for Spike to follow her scent.

2003-02-14 11:30:12-06:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - ("John P." <vergaiden@hotmail.com>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E4CEC43.1D1F5804@rcn.com... > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank > that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's > just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I > don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the > car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I'm thinking he bursts into the restaurant, tells Buffy there's trouble. He tell them he'll meet them outside and checks in at the Summer's residence via payphone in the lobby while Wood gets the check and Buffy visits the ladies room. :-) -JTP

2003-02-14 11:30:12-06:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - ("John P." <vergaiden@hotmail.com>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E4CEC43.1D1F5804@rcn.com... > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank > that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's > just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I > don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the > car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I'm thinking he bursts into the restaurant, tells Buffy there's trouble. He tell them he'll meet them outside and checks in at the Summer's residence via payphone in the lobby while Wood gets the check and Buffy visits the ladies room. :-) -JTP

2003-02-14 11:37:43-08:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


"John P." wrote: > > "Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E4CEC43.1D1F5804@rcn.com... > > > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank > > that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's > > just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I > > don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the > > car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. > > I'm thinking he bursts into the restaurant, tells Buffy there's trouble. > He tell them he'll meet them outside and checks in at the Summer's > residence via payphone in the lobby while Wood gets the check > and Buffy visits the ladies room. > The bit about following Buffy's scent wasn't in the script. The writer's knew they had a plot hole to fill, so they came up with the scent idea, forgetting, I guess, that Buffy was traveling in Wood's car. They could have done a much better job of filling in by having Spike take Buffy's phone with him.

2003-02-14 11:37:43-08:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


"John P." wrote: > > "Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E4CEC43.1D1F5804@rcn.com... > > > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank > > that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's > > just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I > > don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the > > car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. > > I'm thinking he bursts into the restaurant, tells Buffy there's trouble. > He tell them he'll meet them outside and checks in at the Summer's > residence via payphone in the lobby while Wood gets the check > and Buffy visits the ladies room. > The bit about following Buffy's scent wasn't in the script. The writer's knew they had a plot hole to fill, so they came up with the scent idea, forgetting, I guess, that Buffy was traveling in Wood's car. They could have done a much better job of filling in by having Spike take Buffy's phone with him.

2003-02-14 14:42:32-06:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com> rose up and issued forth: >Carmikl wrote: > >> >> Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > >I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator >spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He >didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > >Jane Most restaurants have pay phones, you know... -- Cyo cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org Drazi: "Captain, we're sorry. We thought you were dead." Sheridan: "I was. I'm better now."

2003-02-14 14:42:32-06:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com> rose up and issued forth: >Carmikl wrote: > >> >> Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > >I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator >spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He >didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > >Jane Most restaurants have pay phones, you know... -- Cyo cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org Drazi: "Captain, we're sorry. We thought you were dead." Sheridan: "I was. I'm better now."

2003-02-14 16:57:23+00:00 - Re: How did Spike know about the locator spell? - (Crazy Cat <khlua35001@sneakemail.com>)


Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in news:3E4C2627.710910C@rcn.com: > Jane Davitt wrote: >> >> Carmikl wrote: >> >> > >> > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. >> >> I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator >> spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He >> didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. >> >> Jane >> > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank > that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's > just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I > don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the > car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I > think if all the plot holes were added up, this episode would probably > have more than the last. > > I was wondering how Spike got to the restaurant so fast, or even found > the restaurant since it was hidden down that long alley. > Didn't he say that might still be able to follow her scent????

2003-02-14 16:57:23+00:00 - Re: How did Spike know about the locator spell? - (Crazy Cat <khlua35001@sneakemail.com>)


Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in news:3E4C2627.710910C@rcn.com: > Jane Davitt wrote: >> >> Carmikl wrote: >> >> > >> > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. >> >> I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator >> spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He >> didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. >> >> Jane >> > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank > that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's > just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I > don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the > car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I > think if all the plot holes were added up, this episode would probably > have more than the last. > > I was wondering how Spike got to the restaurant so fast, or even found > the restaurant since it was hidden down that long alley. > Didn't he say that might still be able to follow her scent????

2003-02-14 18:53:41-05:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:32:53 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: >There was no need to make it clear in the script. What we were shown was >enough to do what she intended. The only reason she'd have to say >anything on the Bronze is because SOME people are making it a bigger >deal than it should be. The problem is the editing makes it appear that Willow gets the call after Xander's already strung up. Sure you can say maybe, if, but, he made the call before then but that's not how the editing makes it look. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-02-14 18:53:41-05:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:32:53 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: >There was no need to make it clear in the script. What we were shown was >enough to do what she intended. The only reason she'd have to say >anything on the Bronze is because SOME people are making it a bigger >deal than it should be. The problem is the editing makes it appear that Willow gets the call after Xander's already strung up. Sure you can say maybe, if, but, he made the call before then but that's not how the editing makes it look. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-02-14 20:08:26+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, bergeg@parl.gc.ca wrote in article <24ab6293.0302131024.24d3b35d@posting.google.com>... > Well, thanks to Rick S. for pointing this out in another thread but I > thought it should be posted here so that it doesn't go unseen. > > Jane Espenson stopped by the Bronze tuesday night and clarified that > moment. The quote : > > "Xander wasn't tied up over the seal yet when he texted Willow! > Because *obviously* he can't text her *after* he's tied, so, clearly, > he must have done it *after* she betrayed her intent, and *before* he > was tied! Ergo... I would imagine that our observant viewers will > realize that there must have been an appropriate moemnt -- for > example, he regained consciousness in the back of her car and realized > he was in trouble!!!." > > Here's the link, if you are interested. > > http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~hsiao/media/tv/buffy/bronze/20030211.html > > Hope this helps. > No. If a writer or a director wants to make some plot twist clear, then they must show us in the episode (by establishing scene, some exposition, etc.). Ms Espenson's conjecture is as good as what anyone else may think after the fact. If you accept her elaboration, fine. It is, at this point, her speculation how things would work. Let the document speak for itself. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-02-14 20:08:26+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, bergeg@parl.gc.ca wrote in article <24ab6293.0302131024.24d3b35d@posting.google.com>... > Well, thanks to Rick S. for pointing this out in another thread but I > thought it should be posted here so that it doesn't go unseen. > > Jane Espenson stopped by the Bronze tuesday night and clarified that > moment. The quote : > > "Xander wasn't tied up over the seal yet when he texted Willow! > Because *obviously* he can't text her *after* he's tied, so, clearly, > he must have done it *after* she betrayed her intent, and *before* he > was tied! Ergo... I would imagine that our observant viewers will > realize that there must have been an appropriate moemnt -- for > example, he regained consciousness in the back of her car and realized > he was in trouble!!!." > > Here's the link, if you are interested. > > http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~hsiao/media/tv/buffy/bronze/20030211.html > > Hope this helps. > No. If a writer or a director wants to make some plot twist clear, then they must show us in the episode (by establishing scene, some exposition, etc.). Ms Espenson's conjecture is as good as what anyone else may think after the fact. If you accept her elaboration, fine. It is, at this point, her speculation how things would work. Let the document speak for itself. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-02-14 23:32:53+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca>)


Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid> wrote in news:MPG.18b6ec94b117d293989ce3@netnews.attbi.com: > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, bergeg@parl.gc.ca wrote in > article <24ab6293.0302131024.24d3b35d@posting.google.com>... >> Well, thanks to Rick S. for pointing this out in another thread but >> I thought it should be posted here so that it doesn't go unseen. >> >> Jane Espenson stopped by the Bronze tuesday night and clarified that >> moment. The quote : >> >> "Xander wasn't tied up over the seal yet when he texted Willow! >> Because *obviously* he can't text her *after* he's tied, so, >> clearly, he must have done it *after* she betrayed her intent, and >> *before* he was tied! Ergo... I would imagine that our observant >> viewers will realize that there must have been an appropriate moemnt >> -- for example, he regained consciousness in the back of her car and >> realized he was in trouble!!!." >> >> Here's the link, if you are interested. >> >> http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~hsiao/media/tv/buffy/bronze/20030211.html >> >> Hope this helps. >> > > No. If a writer or a director wants to make some plot twist clear, > then they must show us in the episode (by establishing scene, some > exposition, etc.). Ms Espenson's conjecture is as good as what > anyone else may think after the fact. If you accept her elaboration, > fine. It is, at this point, her speculation how things would work. > Let the document speak for itself. There was no need to make it clear in the script. What we were shown was enough to do what she intended. The only reason she'd have to say anything on the Bronze is because SOME people are making it a bigger deal than it should be. Nothing about Xander in that episode affects the greater story in any way. Xander did not die, no new Demons were created. Yes, Wood found out about Spike, but that's not part of the Xander story. The whole thing was just a joke about Xander getting a really nice date and yet again, it turns out to be a demon. I actually got a chuckle out of it. -- Rick S. Calgary, Alberta rick-sam@shaw.ca

2003-02-14 23:32:53+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca>)


Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid> wrote in news:MPG.18b6ec94b117d293989ce3@netnews.attbi.com: > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, bergeg@parl.gc.ca wrote in > article <24ab6293.0302131024.24d3b35d@posting.google.com>... >> Well, thanks to Rick S. for pointing this out in another thread but >> I thought it should be posted here so that it doesn't go unseen. >> >> Jane Espenson stopped by the Bronze tuesday night and clarified that >> moment. The quote : >> >> "Xander wasn't tied up over the seal yet when he texted Willow! >> Because *obviously* he can't text her *after* he's tied, so, >> clearly, he must have done it *after* she betrayed her intent, and >> *before* he was tied! Ergo... I would imagine that our observant >> viewers will realize that there must have been an appropriate moemnt >> -- for example, he regained consciousness in the back of her car and >> realized he was in trouble!!!." >> >> Here's the link, if you are interested. >> >> http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~hsiao/media/tv/buffy/bronze/20030211.html >> >> Hope this helps. >> > > No. If a writer or a director wants to make some plot twist clear, > then they must show us in the episode (by establishing scene, some > exposition, etc.). Ms Espenson's conjecture is as good as what > anyone else may think after the fact. If you accept her elaboration, > fine. It is, at this point, her speculation how things would work. > Let the document speak for itself. There was no need to make it clear in the script. What we were shown was enough to do what she intended. The only reason she'd have to say anything on the Bronze is because SOME people are making it a bigger deal than it should be. Nothing about Xander in that episode affects the greater story in any way. Xander did not die, no new Demons were created. Yes, Wood found out about Spike, but that's not part of the Xander story. The whole thing was just a joke about Xander getting a really nice date and yet again, it turns out to be a demon. I actually got a chuckle out of it. -- Rick S. Calgary, Alberta rick-sam@shaw.ca

2003-02-15 00:06:45+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca>)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:l90r4vseg7alask5rua1e81irjcmvgo1dq@4ax.com: > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:32:53 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: > > >>There was no need to make it clear in the script. What we were shown >>was enough to do what she intended. The only reason she'd have to say >>anything on the Bronze is because SOME people are making it a bigger >>deal than it should be. > > The problem is the editing makes it appear that Willow gets the call > after Xander's already strung up. Sure you can say maybe, if, but, > he made the call before then but that's not how the editing makes it > look. Yea I know that. That's why I was saying at first that I thought Willow had just turned her phone on (it still could be that) then others said that text messaging often gets delayed anyway. The point is that those are two ways of making it work even if it WAS edited wrong. -- Rick S. Calgary, Alberta rick-sam@shaw.ca

2003-02-15 00:06:45+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca>)


EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:l90r4vseg7alask5rua1e81irjcmvgo1dq@4ax.com: > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:32:53 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: > > >>There was no need to make it clear in the script. What we were shown >>was enough to do what she intended. The only reason she'd have to say >>anything on the Bronze is because SOME people are making it a bigger >>deal than it should be. > > The problem is the editing makes it appear that Willow gets the call > after Xander's already strung up. Sure you can say maybe, if, but, > he made the call before then but that's not how the editing makes it > look. Yea I know that. That's why I was saying at first that I thought Willow had just turned her phone on (it still could be that) then others said that text messaging often gets delayed anyway. The point is that those are two ways of making it work even if it WAS edited wrong. -- Rick S. Calgary, Alberta rick-sam@shaw.ca

2003-02-15 01:16:30+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com>)


Rick S wrote: > EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote in > news:l90r4vseg7alask5rua1e81irjcmvgo1dq@4ax.com: > >> On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:32:53 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: >> >> >>> There was no need to make it clear in the script. What we were shown >>> was enough to do what she intended. The only reason she'd have to say >>> anything on the Bronze is because SOME people are making it a bigger >>> deal than it should be. >> >> The problem is the editing makes it appear that Willow gets the call >> after Xander's already strung up. Sure you can say maybe, if, but, >> he made the call before then but that's not how the editing makes it >> look. > > Yea I know that. That's why I was saying at first that I thought Willow > had just turned her phone on (it still could be that) then others said > that text messaging often gets delayed anyway. > > The point is that those are two ways of making it work even if it WAS > edited wrong. It's not the editing, it's written that way. The point is that it's a writing flaw that could have been fixed in the editing. John Briggs

2003-02-15 01:16:30+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com>)


Rick S wrote: > EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote in > news:l90r4vseg7alask5rua1e81irjcmvgo1dq@4ax.com: > >> On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:32:53 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: >> >> >>> There was no need to make it clear in the script. What we were shown >>> was enough to do what she intended. The only reason she'd have to say >>> anything on the Bronze is because SOME people are making it a bigger >>> deal than it should be. >> >> The problem is the editing makes it appear that Willow gets the call >> after Xander's already strung up. Sure you can say maybe, if, but, >> he made the call before then but that's not how the editing makes it >> look. > > Yea I know that. That's why I was saying at first that I thought Willow > had just turned her phone on (it still could be that) then others said > that text messaging often gets delayed anyway. > > The point is that those are two ways of making it work even if it WAS > edited wrong. It's not the editing, it's written that way. The point is that it's a writing flaw that could have been fixed in the editing. John Briggs

2003-02-15 04:05:31+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca>)


"John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in news:qCg3a.4600 $WR4.60644@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net: > Rick S wrote: >> EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote in >> news:l90r4vseg7alask5rua1e81irjcmvgo1dq@4ax.com: >> >>> On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:32:53 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> There was no need to make it clear in the script. What we were shown >>>> was enough to do what she intended. The only reason she'd have to say >>>> anything on the Bronze is because SOME people are making it a bigger >>>> deal than it should be. >>> >>> The problem is the editing makes it appear that Willow gets the call >>> after Xander's already strung up. Sure you can say maybe, if, but, >>> he made the call before then but that's not how the editing makes it >>> look. >> >> Yea I know that. That's why I was saying at first that I thought Willow >> had just turned her phone on (it still could be that) then others said >> that text messaging often gets delayed anyway. >> >> The point is that those are two ways of making it work even if it WAS >> edited wrong. > > It's not the editing, it's written that way. The point is that it's a > writing flaw that could have been fixed in the editing. > > John Briggs I didn't say it was edited wrong, I said that even if it was, it still works just the way it is. It doesn't need any fixing at all. -- Rick S. Calgary, Alberta rick-sam@shaw.ca

2003-02-15 04:05:31+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca>)


"John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in news:qCg3a.4600 $WR4.60644@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net: > Rick S wrote: >> EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote in >> news:l90r4vseg7alask5rua1e81irjcmvgo1dq@4ax.com: >> >>> On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:32:53 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> There was no need to make it clear in the script. What we were shown >>>> was enough to do what she intended. The only reason she'd have to say >>>> anything on the Bronze is because SOME people are making it a bigger >>>> deal than it should be. >>> >>> The problem is the editing makes it appear that Willow gets the call >>> after Xander's already strung up. Sure you can say maybe, if, but, >>> he made the call before then but that's not how the editing makes it >>> look. >> >> Yea I know that. That's why I was saying at first that I thought Willow >> had just turned her phone on (it still could be that) then others said >> that text messaging often gets delayed anyway. >> >> The point is that those are two ways of making it work even if it WAS >> edited wrong. > > It's not the editing, it's written that way. The point is that it's a > writing flaw that could have been fixed in the editing. > > John Briggs I didn't say it was edited wrong, I said that even if it was, it still works just the way it is. It doesn't need any fixing at all. -- Rick S. Calgary, Alberta rick-sam@shaw.ca

2003-02-15 08:08:49-08:00 - Re: How did Spike know about the locator spell? - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Crazy Cat wrote: > > Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in news:3E4C2627.710910C@rcn.com: > > > Jane Davitt wrote: > >> > >> Carmikl wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > >> > >> I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator > >> spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He > >> didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > >> > >> Jane > >> > > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank > > that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's > > just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I > > don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the > > car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I > > think if all the plot holes were added up, this episode would probably > > have more than the last. > > > > I was wondering how Spike got to the restaurant so fast, or even found > > the restaurant since it was hidden down that long alley. > > > Didn't he say that might still be able to follow her scent???? Don't know how he could follow her scent when she was traveling in Wood's car.

2003-02-15 08:08:49-08:00 - Re: How did Spike know about the locator spell? - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Crazy Cat wrote: > > Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in news:3E4C2627.710910C@rcn.com: > > > Jane Davitt wrote: > >> > >> Carmikl wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > >> > >> I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator > >> spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He > >> didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > >> > >> Jane > >> > > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank > > that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's > > just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I > > don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the > > car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I > > think if all the plot holes were added up, this episode would probably > > have more than the last. > > > > I was wondering how Spike got to the restaurant so fast, or even found > > the restaurant since it was hidden down that long alley. > > > Didn't he say that might still be able to follow her scent???? Don't know how he could follow her scent when she was traveling in Wood's car.

2003-02-15 08:10:50-08:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


"Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" wrote: > > Out of the ether Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com> rose up and issued > forth: > > >Carmikl wrote: > > > >> > >> Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > > > >I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator > >spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He > >didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > > > >Jane > > Most restaurants have pay phones, you know... > But first he would have to find the restaurant. I doubt he could have followed Buffy's scent when she was traveling in Wood's car.

2003-02-15 08:10:50-08:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


"Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" wrote: > > Out of the ether Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com> rose up and issued > forth: > > >Carmikl wrote: > > > >> > >> Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > > > >I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator > >spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He > >didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > > > >Jane > > Most restaurants have pay phones, you know... > But first he would have to find the restaurant. I doubt he could have followed Buffy's scent when she was traveling in Wood's car.

2003-02-15 10:40:57-06:00 - Re: How did Spike know about the locator spell? - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <3E4E6611.7A72FEC5@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > Crazy Cat wrote: > > > > Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in news:3E4C2627.710910C@rcn.com: > > > > > Jane Davitt wrote: > > >> > > >> Carmikl wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > >> > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > > >> > > >> I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator > > >> spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He > > >> didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > > >> > > >> Jane > > >> > > > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank > > > that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's > > > just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I > > > don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the > > > car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I > > > think if all the plot holes were added up, this episode would probably > > > have more than the last. > > > > > > I was wondering how Spike got to the restaurant so fast, or even found > > > the restaurant since it was hidden down that long alley. > > > > > Didn't he say that might still be able to follow her scent???? > > Don't know how he could follow her scent when she was traveling in > Wood's car. Lack of deodorant? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let the Darwin Fishes swim! www.darwin-fish.com/fish.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-02-15 10:40:57-06:00 - Re: How did Spike know about the locator spell? - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <3E4E6611.7A72FEC5@rcn.com>, Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote: > Crazy Cat wrote: > > > > Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in news:3E4C2627.710910C@rcn.com: > > > > > Jane Davitt wrote: > > >> > > >> Carmikl wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > >> > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > > >> > > >> I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator > > >> spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He > > >> didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > > >> > > >> Jane > > >> > > > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank > > > that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's > > > just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I > > > don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the > > > car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I > > > think if all the plot holes were added up, this episode would probably > > > have more than the last. > > > > > > I was wondering how Spike got to the restaurant so fast, or even found > > > the restaurant since it was hidden down that long alley. > > > > > Didn't he say that might still be able to follow her scent???? > > Don't know how he could follow her scent when she was traveling in > Wood's car. Lack of deodorant? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let the Darwin Fishes swim! www.darwin-fish.com/fish.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-02-15 14:23:55-06:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether EGK <me@privacy.net> rose up and issued forth: >On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:32:53 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: > > >>There was no need to make it clear in the script. What we were shown was >>enough to do what she intended. The only reason she'd have to say >>anything on the Bronze is because SOME people are making it a bigger >>deal than it should be. > >The problem is the editing makes it appear that Willow gets the call after >Xander's already strung up. Sure you can say maybe, if, but, he made the >call before then but that's not how the editing makes it look. > No, I think the problem is that the writers are more familiar with text messaging on a cel phone than most of the people here complaining, since those of us who have no problem are used to long delays between sending a text message and receiving one. The only place I have ever seen text messaging go through instantly was in the TV commercials of cel providers trying to sell their text messaging services. -- Cyo cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org Would you be prepared if gravity reversed itself? The only thing I can't figure out is how to keep the change in my pockets. I've got it! Nudity! - Val Kilmer, "Real Genius"

2003-02-15 14:23:55-06:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether EGK <me@privacy.net> rose up and issued forth: >On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:32:53 GMT, Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca> wrote: > > >>There was no need to make it clear in the script. What we were shown was >>enough to do what she intended. The only reason she'd have to say >>anything on the Bronze is because SOME people are making it a bigger >>deal than it should be. > >The problem is the editing makes it appear that Willow gets the call after >Xander's already strung up. Sure you can say maybe, if, but, he made the >call before then but that's not how the editing makes it look. > No, I think the problem is that the writers are more familiar with text messaging on a cel phone than most of the people here complaining, since those of us who have no problem are used to long delays between sending a text message and receiving one. The only place I have ever seen text messaging go through instantly was in the TV commercials of cel providers trying to sell their text messaging services. -- Cyo cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org Would you be prepared if gravity reversed itself? The only thing I can't figure out is how to keep the change in my pockets. I've got it! Nudity! - Val Kilmer, "Real Genius"

2003-02-15 15:34:12-06:00 - Re: How did Spike know about the locator spell? - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net> rose up and issued forth: >i don't think there was a locator spell. > >I think spike simply tracked her. but didn't want to admit that he could >do it at all (by her scent which he is quite familiar with). so he said >that Willow told him where to go. She never asked him how he found her, she asked how he knew where Xander was. -- Cyo cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org He's a chicken, I tell you! A giant chicken!

2003-02-15 15:34:12-06:00 - Re: How did Spike know about the locator spell? - ("Rev. Cyohtee - O'k�home Ehohatse" <cyohtee@barbarian.org>)


Out of the ether PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net> rose up and issued forth: >i don't think there was a locator spell. > >I think spike simply tracked her. but didn't want to admit that he could >do it at all (by her scent which he is quite familiar with). so he said >that Willow told him where to go. She never asked him how he found her, she asked how he knew where Xander was. -- Cyo cyohtee@ucan.foad.org http://www.barbarian.org/~cyohtee http://www.barbarian.org He's a chicken, I tell you! A giant chicken!

2003-02-15 17:33:38+00:00 - Re: How did Spike know about the locator spell? - (PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net>)


i don't think there was a locator spell. I think spike simply tracked her. but didn't want to admit that he could do it at all (by her scent which he is quite familiar with). so he said that Willow told him where to go.

2003-02-15 17:33:38+00:00 - Re: How did Spike know about the locator spell? - (PJ Browning <antarian@pacbell.net>)


i don't think there was a locator spell. I think spike simply tracked her. but didn't want to admit that he could do it at all (by her scent which he is quite familiar with). so he said that Willow told him where to go.

2003-02-15 17:35:58-06:00 - Re: How did Spike know about the locator spell? - (drifter <nowhere@all>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E4E6611.7A72FEC5@rcn.com... > Crazy Cat wrote: > > > > Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in news:3E4C2627.710910C@rcn.com: > > > > > Jane Davitt wrote: > > >> > > >> Carmikl wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > >> > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > > >> > > >> I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator > > >> spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He > > >> didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > > >> > > >> Jane > > >> > > > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank > > > that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's > > > just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I > > > don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the > > > car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I > > > think if all the plot holes were added up, this episode would probably > > > have more than the last. > > > > > > I was wondering how Spike got to the restaurant so fast, or even found > > > the restaurant since it was hidden down that long alley. > > > > > Didn't he say that might still be able to follow her scent???? > > Don't know how he could follow her scent when she was traveling in > Wood's car. Bloodhounds can do it, saw it on the Discovery Channel; why not vampires? -- Kel _________________________________________________ "Oh, Buffy. You really need to have every square inch of your ass licked." Darth Willow, kinda gay.

2003-02-15 17:35:58-06:00 - Re: How did Spike know about the locator spell? - (drifter <nowhere@all>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3E4E6611.7A72FEC5@rcn.com... > Crazy Cat wrote: > > > > Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in news:3E4C2627.710910C@rcn.com: > > > > > Jane Davitt wrote: > > >> > > >> Carmikl wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > >> > Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > > >> > > >> I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator > > >> spell, as he left before she did it. Does Spike have a cell phone? He > > >> didn't pick up Buffy's so that can't be it. > > >> > > >> Jane > > >> > > > I just took another look at the scene and I suppose you could fanwank > > > that Spike has a cell phone, or he used a pay phone, but I think it's > > > just another plot hole. If he used a pay phone after he found Buffy, I > > > don't think he would have had to tell her about the locator spell in the > > > car since she would have been right beside him when he made the call. I > > > think if all the plot holes were added up, this episode would probably > > > have more than the last. > > > > > > I was wondering how Spike got to the restaurant so fast, or even found > > > the restaurant since it was hidden down that long alley. > > > > > Didn't he say that might still be able to follow her scent???? > > Don't know how he could follow her scent when she was traveling in > Wood's car. Bloodhounds can do it, saw it on the Discovery Channel; why not vampires? -- Kel _________________________________________________ "Oh, Buffy. You really need to have every square inch of your ass licked." Darth Willow, kinda gay.

2003-02-16 04:00:22+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:07:18 GMT, Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote: >Carmikl wrote: > >> >> Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > >I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator >spell, as he left before she did it. After he found Buffy they presumably called the house.

2003-02-16 04:00:22+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:07:18 GMT, Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote: >Carmikl wrote: > >> >> Writers drop by the Bronze to do damage control. > >I'm still trying to work out how Spike knew Willow had done the locator >spell, as he left before she did it. After he found Buffy they presumably called the house.

2003-02-16 04:53:05+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (elurio@aol.com)


This whole thing reminds me of the story about a fan who wrote JRR Tolkein about an alleged elvish gramatical error in one of the "Lord of the Rings" books. He actually wroter her back and admonished her: "I created the damn language," he said, "and I can do whatever I like with it." The same applies here. eric l.

2003-02-16 04:53:05+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (elurio@aol.com)


This whole thing reminds me of the story about a fan who wrote JRR Tolkein about an alleged elvish gramatical error in one of the "Lord of the Rings" books. He actually wroter her back and admonished her: "I created the damn language," he said, "and I can do whatever I like with it." The same applies here. eric l.

2003-02-17 04:47:16+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Aethelrede <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net>)


Jag wrote in message <3e4f255d$0$65242$cc7c7865@news.luth.se>... >ELurio <elurio@aol.com> wrote: >: This whole thing reminds me of the story about a fan who wrote JRR Tolkein >: about an alleged elvish gramatical error in one of the "Lord of the Rings" >: books. >: >: He actually wroter her back and admonished her: "I created the damn language," >: he said, "and I can do whatever I like with it." > >Cite for this please? I doubt he would write something like that >to a fan...More likely he would have included a long explanation of >how the grammar worked and how the reader might have misunderstood it. > >(I also doubt anyone could actually find any grammatical errors. It's >not like he ever published an actual grammar for any of the languages...) But it's a good story. Given the way most people who read the book before JRRT died felt about it, and him, I'd very much doubt that anyone capable of seriously criticising his elvish languages would have done so in anything but a respectful and scholarly fashion, and would probably have been known to JRR either personally or by reputation. It's not like bloody Klingon...

2003-02-17 04:47:16+00:00 - Re: Xander sending the text message clarification (First Date Spoilers) - (Aethelrede <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net>)


Jag wrote in message <3e4f255d$0$65242$cc7c7865@news.luth.se>... >ELurio <elurio@aol.com> wrote: >: This whole thing reminds me of the story about a fan who wrote JRR Tolkein >: about an alleged elvish gramatical error in one of the "Lord of the Rings" >: books. >: >: He actually wroter her back and admonished her: "I created the damn language," >: he said, "and I can do whatever I like with it." > >Cite for this please? I doubt he would write something like that >to a fan...More likely he would have included a long explanation of >how the grammar worked and how the reader might have misunderstood it. > >(I also doubt anyone could actually find any grammatical errors. It's >not like he ever published an actual grammar for any of the languages...) But it's a good story. Given the way most people who read the book before JRRT died felt about it, and him, I'd very much doubt that anyone capable of seriously criticising his elvish languages would have done so in anything but a respectful and scholarly fashion, and would probably have been known to JRR either personally or by reputation. It's not like bloody Klingon...