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2003-02-05 14:12:01-08:00 - Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here did. Hmm. Clairel

2003-02-05 14:12:01-08:00 - Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here did. Hmm. Clairel

2003-02-05 15:01:30-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Clairel wrote: > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. > > Clairel Since we both read spoilers we have both known what Buffy decided for over a month now. I think any nonchalance and certainty is probably because the issue has been discussed to death in the following two threads: "Hypothetical scenario involving Spike & Buffy: what would you do?" and "Is Spike's Soul permanent (was Hypothetical scenario)"

2003-02-05 15:01:30-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Clairel wrote: > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. > > Clairel Since we both read spoilers we have both known what Buffy decided for over a month now. I think any nonchalance and certainty is probably because the issue has been discussed to death in the following two threads: "Hypothetical scenario involving Spike & Buffy: what would you do?" and "Is Spike's Soul permanent (was Hypothetical scenario)"

2003-02-05 16:50:20-06:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. ME has beaten us down. No longer have the strength to make fun of all the bonehead stuff they have the characters do. Watching mostly from habit and hoping for a good end.

2003-02-05 16:50:20-06:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. ME has beaten us down. No longer have the strength to make fun of all the bonehead stuff they have the characters do. Watching mostly from habit and hoping for a good end.

2003-02-05 17:17:06-05:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On 5 Feb 2003 14:12:01 -0800, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: >When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy >were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would >tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I >was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the >right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith >that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've >seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' >about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' >uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > >So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > >I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a >big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I >think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired >would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? >Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because >I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here >did. Hmm. I still think they should stake "ass-face" :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-02-05 17:17:06-05:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (EGK <me@privacy.net>)


On 5 Feb 2003 14:12:01 -0800, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: >When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy >were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would >tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I >was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the >right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith >that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've >seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' >about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' >uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > >So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > >I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a >big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I >think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired >would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? >Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because >I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here >did. Hmm. I still think they should stake "ass-face" :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes) email: egk-nospam-@hotmail.com

2003-02-05 17:54:43-05:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (DarkMagic <slnospambilan@comcast.net>)


"Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message news:1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com... > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy I don't actually know another living soul that watches Buffy. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > Basically, yes. > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. I believe that Spike has the ability to choose his fate, and always has. The chip prevented him from actually killing anything with his own hands, but we saw plenty of occasions when it didn't stop him from being evil or hurting someone. Naturally, if the story is about redemption, and Spike is ever to have any hope of achieving it, he must lose the chip. And the carrot on the stick that persuaded him to try and change to begin with. I'm afraid that ME has at last become predictable. > -- Shannon If loving Buffy is wrong, I don't want to be right.

2003-02-05 17:54:43-05:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (DarkMagic <slnospambilan@comcast.net>)


"Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message news:1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com... > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy I don't actually know another living soul that watches Buffy. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > Basically, yes. > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. I believe that Spike has the ability to choose his fate, and always has. The chip prevented him from actually killing anything with his own hands, but we saw plenty of occasions when it didn't stop him from being evil or hurting someone. Naturally, if the story is about redemption, and Spike is ever to have any hope of achieving it, he must lose the chip. And the carrot on the stick that persuaded him to try and change to begin with. I'm afraid that ME has at last become predictable. > -- Shannon If loving Buffy is wrong, I don't want to be right.

2003-02-05 22:55:38+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (alanesue@aol.com)


>When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy >were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would >tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. My co-worker today asked me if I knew what Buffy was going to do. She said both she and her husband were yelling at the TV to Buffy to trust Spike and remove the chip. They didn't seem certain at all what she would do. Alane

2003-02-05 22:55:38+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (alanesue@aol.com)


>When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy >were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would >tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. My co-worker today asked me if I knew what Buffy was going to do. She said both she and her husband were yelling at the TV to Buffy to trust Spike and remove the chip. They didn't seem certain at all what she would do. Alane

2003-02-06 00:45:29+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (sillyman@famous.com)


On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 17:17:06 -0500, EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >I still think they should stake "ass-face" :) That's not a nice thing to call someone. And it's inaccurate. He's pasty white, yes, but not hairy at all. Nor does he have perma-pucker. Not that your idea lacks merit.

2003-02-06 00:45:29+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (sillyman@famous.com)


On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 17:17:06 -0500, EGK <me@privacy.net> wrote: >I still think they should stake "ass-face" :) That's not a nice thing to call someone. And it's inaccurate. He's pasty white, yes, but not hairy at all. Nor does he have perma-pucker. Not that your idea lacks merit.

2003-02-06 02:26:19+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Amanda <YBIA@optonline.net>)


I don't believe in Buffy. She's a bad person. Her consistent mistreatment of Spike since season five is a pretty clear indication that she'll choose to repair the chip. I may eat my words, but that's what I think. And even if she does have it removed, it won't improve my opinion of her. Amanda -- "What a day, eh, Milhouse? The sun is out, birds are singing, bees are trying to have sex with them---as is my understanding..." --Bart Simpson "No decision like this is wholly without flaws, but at the same time there exists a universal morality that demands that we relieve human suffering when we can." --S���gol���ne Royal "Thank the Lord? Thank the Lord?!? That sounded like a prayer. A prayer. A prayer in a public school. God has no place within these walls just like facts have no place within organized religion. Simpson, you get your wish. Flanders is history!" --Superintendent Chalmers "Above the titles of wife and mother, which, although dear, are transitory and accidental, there is the title human being, which precedes and out-ranks every other." --Mary Ashton Livermore "If wishes were horses, I could make a killing in glue and hot dogs." -- Josh Penn "Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message news:1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com... When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here did. Hmm. Clairel

2003-02-06 02:26:19+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Amanda <YBIA@optonline.net>)


I don't believe in Buffy. She's a bad person. Her consistent mistreatment of Spike since season five is a pretty clear indication that she'll choose to repair the chip. I may eat my words, but that's what I think. And even if she does have it removed, it won't improve my opinion of her. Amanda -- "What a day, eh, Milhouse? The sun is out, birds are singing, bees are trying to have sex with them---as is my understanding..." --Bart Simpson "No decision like this is wholly without flaws, but at the same time there exists a universal morality that demands that we relieve human suffering when we can." --S���gol���ne Royal "Thank the Lord? Thank the Lord?!? That sounded like a prayer. A prayer. A prayer in a public school. God has no place within these walls just like facts have no place within organized religion. Simpson, you get your wish. Flanders is history!" --Superintendent Chalmers "Above the titles of wife and mother, which, although dear, are transitory and accidental, there is the title human being, which precedes and out-ranks every other." --Mary Ashton Livermore "If wishes were horses, I could make a killing in glue and hot dogs." -- Josh Penn "Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message news:1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com... When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here did. Hmm. Clairel

2003-02-06 06:24:50+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (portia <portia@belmont.it>)


In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, Clairel <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. People are too busy dissing the ep/writer/Kennedy/Willow, MEs disinterest and f**k knows what all else to pay any attention to this momentous event. Besides which, the Spike haters will only discuss Spike issues with the stock answer "with a stake", and the Buffy haters (like Amanda who responded above) are in their universe where Buffy is a Bad Girl, placing all their bets on the seriously forlorn hope that Some Day She Will Pay for her sins. Well, like you, I care. I adore BtVS, I adore Buffy, and I adore Spike. I have been fretting over this damned chip for two years now, waiting for this moment. A good kind of fretting. This season is working for me like no season since S3. I love the BB arc, I love the lull in the BB arc we are now in, where we get to catch up on a coupla things. Yeah, the Giles fake out looks like a fakeout, and it was a dud. Tough--there is so DAMNED much going on, I can't complain. <digression> I rolled my eyes last week at all the flak Potential took--what a great little ep, although a little unevenly presented. The minute I saw how low key this ep was, along with the absence of "new" material, I knew what the reaction would be. "Filler" is what this ng calls anything that is character-driven. What on earth do people want--Hush every week? I'll tell you what I think, Clairel--I think this ng is crawling with people who have extremely limited attention spans, who are not interested in identifying with characters, who watch the ep once, with one eye, and don't notice anything that isn't blatant. I know they don't actually listen to the dialogue, cause I read enough of the idiot questions that get raised. The impatience here is appalling--if it doesn't happen NOW (like Buffy coming around to Spike, or Willow showing her grief), it's too late, and if (like Ubie, or rescuing Spike) it takes two eps to deal with, it's TAKING FOREVER. And don't get me started on the lunacy of dissing future events based on spoilers (you are spoiled, I believe, but thank got you don't use it to dis the show). Eps suck because they don't contain something "unexpected" (and that includes the chip, which is so old hat that half the posters probably don't get it). Eps suck if they if they're character driven, especially if they're girlie (this one, in it's Willow/Kennedy centricity, and remember Help--a much better ep???). Unfortunately, I think there are far more "Kill Amy, she's a bitch." "Kill Kennedy, the actress sucks," "Yeah, de-chip Spike so he can Kill Andrew" types running around than the Dons and Clairels and Janes and GrowlTigers and Phillips. I don't post much--hell, I don't read much. I don't have a beef with people who like different things in an ep than I do, but I have no tolerance for that element which is here almost exclusively to bitch, god bless their pointed little ears--they do give my killjoy file a work out. </digression> So my point is: Good Golly Miss Molly, there is not one iota of doubt in my mind--of course Buffy will opt to remove the chip, and I am THRILLED about it! I was as surprised as you at the lack of conviction in people's responses. "She should leave it in, after all, he could still kill people."!? Hello! Watching the show this season? Notice that a graph of the Spike subplot is a straight arrow? Anybody paying attention to the Season arc--or the episode itself--can see it. I mean, what was the point of bringing up the issue, otherwise? (My money was on the First using the chip to control Spike, btw *G*). IMHO, it wasn't necessary to include the answer in the ep where it belonged (and where there was no room for it, alas). There is only one answer. And I can't tell you how pleased I am about it. I'll have a quiet clink of the glass with you, and a sly grin. Because in the end, I can't help feeling that those of us who Get It and are, yes, despite the flaws, enjoying this arc; this season; and above all, these characters, are the lucky ones. p0rtia

2003-02-06 06:24:50+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (portia <portia@belmont.it>)


In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, Clairel <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. People are too busy dissing the ep/writer/Kennedy/Willow, MEs disinterest and f**k knows what all else to pay any attention to this momentous event. Besides which, the Spike haters will only discuss Spike issues with the stock answer "with a stake", and the Buffy haters (like Amanda who responded above) are in their universe where Buffy is a Bad Girl, placing all their bets on the seriously forlorn hope that Some Day She Will Pay for her sins. Well, like you, I care. I adore BtVS, I adore Buffy, and I adore Spike. I have been fretting over this damned chip for two years now, waiting for this moment. A good kind of fretting. This season is working for me like no season since S3. I love the BB arc, I love the lull in the BB arc we are now in, where we get to catch up on a coupla things. Yeah, the Giles fake out looks like a fakeout, and it was a dud. Tough--there is so DAMNED much going on, I can't complain. <digression> I rolled my eyes last week at all the flak Potential took--what a great little ep, although a little unevenly presented. The minute I saw how low key this ep was, along with the absence of "new" material, I knew what the reaction would be. "Filler" is what this ng calls anything that is character-driven. What on earth do people want--Hush every week? I'll tell you what I think, Clairel--I think this ng is crawling with people who have extremely limited attention spans, who are not interested in identifying with characters, who watch the ep once, with one eye, and don't notice anything that isn't blatant. I know they don't actually listen to the dialogue, cause I read enough of the idiot questions that get raised. The impatience here is appalling--if it doesn't happen NOW (like Buffy coming around to Spike, or Willow showing her grief), it's too late, and if (like Ubie, or rescuing Spike) it takes two eps to deal with, it's TAKING FOREVER. And don't get me started on the lunacy of dissing future events based on spoilers (you are spoiled, I believe, but thank got you don't use it to dis the show). Eps suck because they don't contain something "unexpected" (and that includes the chip, which is so old hat that half the posters probably don't get it). Eps suck if they if they're character driven, especially if they're girlie (this one, in it's Willow/Kennedy centricity, and remember Help--a much better ep???). Unfortunately, I think there are far more "Kill Amy, she's a bitch." "Kill Kennedy, the actress sucks," "Yeah, de-chip Spike so he can Kill Andrew" types running around than the Dons and Clairels and Janes and GrowlTigers and Phillips. I don't post much--hell, I don't read much. I don't have a beef with people who like different things in an ep than I do, but I have no tolerance for that element which is here almost exclusively to bitch, god bless their pointed little ears--they do give my killjoy file a work out. </digression> So my point is: Good Golly Miss Molly, there is not one iota of doubt in my mind--of course Buffy will opt to remove the chip, and I am THRILLED about it! I was as surprised as you at the lack of conviction in people's responses. "She should leave it in, after all, he could still kill people."!? Hello! Watching the show this season? Notice that a graph of the Spike subplot is a straight arrow? Anybody paying attention to the Season arc--or the episode itself--can see it. I mean, what was the point of bringing up the issue, otherwise? (My money was on the First using the chip to control Spike, btw *G*). IMHO, it wasn't necessary to include the answer in the ep where it belonged (and where there was no room for it, alas). There is only one answer. And I can't tell you how pleased I am about it. I'll have a quiet clink of the glass with you, and a sly grin. Because in the end, I can't help feeling that those of us who Get It and are, yes, despite the flaws, enjoying this arc; this season; and above all, these characters, are the lucky ones. p0rtia

2003-02-06 06:42:47-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (jillun@hotmail.com)


I snip all, only so that I can say simply that portia, you speak my thoughts. Only much more coherently.

2003-02-06 06:42:47-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (jillun@hotmail.com)


I snip all, only so that I can say simply that portia, you speak my thoughts. Only much more coherently.

2003-02-06 07:12:17+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (SDM <smeyer@mac.com>)


In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > Eh. No matter what you might feel about it, it's such an obviously foregone conclusion that there's nothing to discuss. Having given Spike a soul *and* showing that the FE can make him ignore it anyway (and, for all Buffy knows, may even be using the chip), ME has already sucked any drama or meaning out of the choice. Steve

2003-02-06 07:12:17+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (SDM <smeyer@mac.com>)


In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > Eh. No matter what you might feel about it, it's such an obviously foregone conclusion that there's nothing to discuss. Having given Spike a soul *and* showing that the FE can make him ignore it anyway (and, for all Buffy knows, may even be using the chip), ME has already sucked any drama or meaning out of the choice. Steve

2003-02-06 07:13:08-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


"Amanda" <YBIA@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<fJj0a.131590$HG.20853027@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>... > I don't believe in Buffy. She's a bad person. Her consistent mistreatment > of Spike since season five is a pretty clear indication that she'll choose > to repair the chip. I may eat my words, but that's what I think. And even > if she does have it removed, it won't improve my opinion of her. You say Buffy's a bad person and you only mention this so-called bad treatment of Spike as evidence of her being bad? LOL. This is the typical reaction of a Spike-lover who is perfectly willing to ignore his 100+ years of death, violence and mayhem(not to mention the several times he tried to kill Buffy and the Scoobies) and focus on Buffy's supposed bad treatment of him over the last 3 seasons. I'm sorry, but Spike does not deserve a free get out of jail pass. Spike should be doing his penance just like Angel(Who spent nearly 100 years doing so) if he really wants to be redeemed. Buffy's a good person. 6+ seasons of BtVS have clearly shown us that. Anybody that doesn't see that is a moron. Smaug69

2003-02-06 07:13:08-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


"Amanda" <YBIA@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<fJj0a.131590$HG.20853027@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>... > I don't believe in Buffy. She's a bad person. Her consistent mistreatment > of Spike since season five is a pretty clear indication that she'll choose > to repair the chip. I may eat my words, but that's what I think. And even > if she does have it removed, it won't improve my opinion of her. You say Buffy's a bad person and you only mention this so-called bad treatment of Spike as evidence of her being bad? LOL. This is the typical reaction of a Spike-lover who is perfectly willing to ignore his 100+ years of death, violence and mayhem(not to mention the several times he tried to kill Buffy and the Scoobies) and focus on Buffy's supposed bad treatment of him over the last 3 seasons. I'm sorry, but Spike does not deserve a free get out of jail pass. Spike should be doing his penance just like Angel(Who spent nearly 100 years doing so) if he really wants to be redeemed. Buffy's a good person. 6+ seasons of BtVS have clearly shown us that. Anybody that doesn't see that is a moron. Smaug69

2003-02-06 08:04:56-06:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <Jyt0a.2461$1q2.246563@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote: > The chip decision would have been much more interesting if told before Spike > had gotten a soul. Now it's almost a moot point. Souled Spike under his > own control has shown to be very reticent about killing at all. A very > interesting story would have been in season 6 if Buffy was given the same > choice while in her relationship with Spike. What would she do? With that > idea you could have propeled the Spuffy relationship further(she trusts > Spike enough to be free of the chip even if she doesn't totally trust > herself to make that decision, so she goes to Giles for consel). A complex > moral about trust in one's self and others could have been weaved from it > but instead we get Spike the rapist... If Buffy removed Spike's chip before he got a soul he would have gone on a killing spree. Remember, when he discovered he could hit Buffy the first thing he went out to do was try and kill and feed on an innocent woman he would in an alleyway. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let the Darwin Fishes swim! www.darwin-fish.com/fish.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-02-06 08:04:56-06:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Darwin Fish <a@a.edu>)


In article <Jyt0a.2461$1q2.246563@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote: > The chip decision would have been much more interesting if told before Spike > had gotten a soul. Now it's almost a moot point. Souled Spike under his > own control has shown to be very reticent about killing at all. A very > interesting story would have been in season 6 if Buffy was given the same > choice while in her relationship with Spike. What would she do? With that > idea you could have propeled the Spuffy relationship further(she trusts > Spike enough to be free of the chip even if she doesn't totally trust > herself to make that decision, so she goes to Giles for consel). A complex > moral about trust in one's self and others could have been weaved from it > but instead we get Spike the rapist... If Buffy removed Spike's chip before he got a soul he would have gone on a killing spree. Remember, when he discovered he could hit Buffy the first thing he went out to do was try and kill and feed on an innocent woman he would in an alleyway. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let the Darwin Fishes swim! www.darwin-fish.com/fish.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------

2003-02-06 10:13:20-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (bergeg@parl.gc.ca)


reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>... > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. It would be a big deal if it made any difference... Spike has a soul, he doesn't attack humans anymore anyway. Whether the chip is repaired or gone, it shouldn't change much in his (or our) life...

2003-02-06 10:13:20-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (bergeg@parl.gc.ca)


reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>... > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. It would be a big deal if it made any difference... Spike has a soul, he doesn't attack humans anymore anyway. Whether the chip is repaired or gone, it shouldn't change much in his (or our) life...

2003-02-06 10:20:48-05:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Randy Money <rbmoney@spamblocklibrary.syr.edu>)


Jillun wrote: > I snip all, only so that I can say simply that portia, you speak my > thoughts. Only much more coherently. It was a good post. Randy M.

2003-02-06 10:20:48-05:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Randy Money <rbmoney@spamblocklibrary.syr.edu>)


Jillun wrote: > I snip all, only so that I can say simply that portia, you speak my > thoughts. Only much more coherently. It was a good post. Randy M.

2003-02-06 13:18:58-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:<postmaster-777B28.16502005022003@husk.cso.niu.edu>... > In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: > > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > > did. Hmm. > > ME has beaten us down. No longer have the strength to make fun of all > the bonehead stuff they have the characters do. Watching mostly from > habit and hoping for a good end. --What bonehead stuff are the characters doing? Clairel

2003-02-06 13:18:58-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:<postmaster-777B28.16502005022003@husk.cso.niu.edu>... > In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote: > > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > > did. Hmm. > > ME has beaten us down. No longer have the strength to make fun of all > the bonehead stuff they have the characters do. Watching mostly from > habit and hoping for a good end. --What bonehead stuff are the characters doing? Clairel

2003-02-06 13:20:39-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:<3E4197CA.E83584BA@rcn.com>... > Clairel wrote: > > > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > > did. Hmm. > > > > Clairel > > Since we both read spoilers we have both known what Buffy decided for > over a month now. I think any nonchalance and certainty is probably > because the issue has been discussed to death in the following two > threads: > > "Hypothetical scenario involving Spike & Buffy: what would you do?" > > and > > "Is Spike's Soul permanent (was Hypothetical scenario)" --Not everyone on the NG participated in those threads. Not everyone on the NG reads spoilers. I'm looking for opinions from those others. Clairel

2003-02-06 13:20:39-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:<3E4197CA.E83584BA@rcn.com>... > Clairel wrote: > > > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > > did. Hmm. > > > > Clairel > > Since we both read spoilers we have both known what Buffy decided for > over a month now. I think any nonchalance and certainty is probably > because the issue has been discussed to death in the following two > threads: > > "Hypothetical scenario involving Spike & Buffy: what would you do?" > > and > > "Is Spike's Soul permanent (was Hypothetical scenario)" --Not everyone on the NG participated in those threads. Not everyone on the NG reads spoilers. I'm looking for opinions from those others. Clairel

2003-02-06 13:21:42-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


What would improve your opinion of Buffy, Amanda? "Amanda" <YBIA@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<fJj0a.131590$HG.20853027@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>... > I don't believe in Buffy. She's a bad person. Her consistent mistreatment > of Spike since season five is a pretty clear indication that she'll choose > to repair the chip. I may eat my words, but that's what I think. And even > if she does have it removed, it won't improve my opinion of her. > > Amanda > > -- > "What a day, eh, Milhouse? The sun is out, birds are singing, bees are > trying to have sex with them---as is my understanding..." --Bart Simpson > > "No decision like this is wholly without flaws, but at the same time there > exists a universal morality that demands that we relieve human suffering > when we can." --S�gol�ne Royal > > "Thank the Lord? Thank the Lord?!? That sounded like a prayer. A prayer. > A prayer in a public school. God has no place within these walls just like > facts have no place within organized religion. Simpson, you get your wish. > Flanders is history!" --Superintendent Chalmers > > "Above the titles of wife and mother, which, although dear, are transitory > and accidental, there is the title human being, which precedes and out-ranks > every other." --Mary Ashton Livermore > > "If wishes were horses, I could make a killing in glue and hot dogs." -- > Josh Penn > > "Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message > news:1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com... > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. > > Clairel

2003-02-06 13:21:42-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


What would improve your opinion of Buffy, Amanda? "Amanda" <YBIA@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<fJj0a.131590$HG.20853027@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>... > I don't believe in Buffy. She's a bad person. Her consistent mistreatment > of Spike since season five is a pretty clear indication that she'll choose > to repair the chip. I may eat my words, but that's what I think. And even > if she does have it removed, it won't improve my opinion of her. > > Amanda > > -- > "What a day, eh, Milhouse? The sun is out, birds are singing, bees are > trying to have sex with them---as is my understanding..." --Bart Simpson > > "No decision like this is wholly without flaws, but at the same time there > exists a universal morality that demands that we relieve human suffering > when we can." --S�gol�ne Royal > > "Thank the Lord? Thank the Lord?!? That sounded like a prayer. A prayer. > A prayer in a public school. God has no place within these walls just like > facts have no place within organized religion. Simpson, you get your wish. > Flanders is history!" --Superintendent Chalmers > > "Above the titles of wife and mother, which, although dear, are transitory > and accidental, there is the title human being, which precedes and out-ranks > every other." --Mary Ashton Livermore > > "If wishes were horses, I could make a killing in glue and hot dogs." -- > Josh Penn > > "Clairel" <reldevik@usa.net> wrote in message > news:1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com... > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. > > Clairel

2003-02-06 13:27:40-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


portia <portia@belmont.it> wrote in message news:<060220030822422060%portia@belmont.it>... > In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, Clairel > <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > > did. Hmm. > > People are too busy dissing the ep/writer/Kennedy/Willow, MEs > disinterest and f**k knows what all else to pay any attention to this > momentous event. Besides which, the Spike haters will only discuss > Spike issues with the stock answer "with a stake", and the Buffy haters > (like Amanda who responded above) are in their universe where Buffy is > a Bad Girl, placing all their bets on the seriously forlorn hope that > Some Day She Will Pay for her sins. > > Well, like you, I care. I adore BtVS, I adore Buffy, and I adore Spike. > I have been fretting over this damned chip for two years now, waiting > for this moment. A good kind of fretting. This season is working for me > like no season since S3. I love the BB arc, I love the lull in the BB > arc we are now in, where we get to catch up on a coupla things. Yeah, > the Giles fake out looks like a fakeout, and it was a dud. Tough--there > is so DAMNED much going on, I can't complain. > > <digression> > I rolled my eyes last week at all the flak Potential took--what a great > little ep, although a little unevenly presented. The minute I saw how > low key this ep was, along with the absence of "new" material, I knew > what the reaction would be. "Filler" is what this ng calls anything > that is character-driven. What on earth do people want--Hush every > week? I'll tell you what I think, Clairel--I think this ng is crawling > with people who have extremely limited attention spans, who are not > interested in identifying with characters, who watch the ep once, with > one eye, and don't notice anything that isn't blatant. I know they > don't actually listen to the dialogue, cause I read enough of the idiot > questions that get raised. The impatience here is appalling--if it > doesn't happen NOW (like Buffy coming around to Spike, or Willow > showing her grief), it's too late, and if (like Ubie, or rescuing > Spike) it takes two eps to deal with, it's TAKING FOREVER. And don't > get me started on the lunacy of dissing future events based on spoilers > (you are spoiled, I believe, but thank got you don't use it to dis the > show). Eps suck because they don't contain something "unexpected" (and > that includes the chip, which is so old hat that half the posters > probably don't get it). Eps suck if they if they're character driven, > especially if they're girlie (this one, in it's Willow/Kennedy > centricity, and remember Help--a much better ep???). Unfortunately, I > think there are far more "Kill Amy, she's a bitch." "Kill Kennedy, the > actress sucks," "Yeah, de-chip Spike so he can Kill Andrew" types > running around than the Dons and Clairels and Janes and GrowlTigers and > Phillips. I don't post much--hell, I don't read much. I don't have a > beef with people who like different things in an ep than I do, but I > have no tolerance for that element which is here almost exclusively to > bitch, god bless their pointed little ears--they do give my killjoy > file a work out. > </digression> > > So my point is: Good Golly Miss Molly, there is not one iota of doubt > in my mind--of course Buffy will opt to remove the chip, and I am > THRILLED about it! I was as surprised as you at the lack of conviction > in people's responses. "She should leave it in, after all, he could > still kill people."!? Hello! Watching the show this season? Notice that > a graph of the Spike subplot is a straight arrow? Anybody paying > attention to the Season arc--or the episode itself--can see it. I > mean, what was the point of bringing up the issue, otherwise? (My money > was on the First using the chip to control Spike, btw *G*). IMHO, it > wasn't necessary to include the answer in the ep where it belonged (and > where there was no room for it, alas). There is only one answer. And I > can't tell you how pleased I am about it. I'll have a quiet clink of > the glass with you, and a sly grin. Because in the end, I can't help > feeling that those of us who Get It and are, yes, despite the flaws, > enjoying this arc; this season; and above all, these characters, are > the lucky ones. --Oh, I do feel lucky to have such a great source of enjoyment for an hour a week, 22 weeks of the year. (And AtS has been really good lately too.) I feel privileged and grateful. Portia, it's as if you're my long-lost twin sister. How I wish you would join the group that Jacque1in announced, Spikes_Soul! I think you'd be really happy posting there. Certainly there wouldn't be the reasons for dissatisfaction that you pointed out here. It's great to have a discussion group consisting of people who actually *like* BtVS, and the characters, and the ME writers. Clairel

2003-02-06 13:27:40-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


portia <portia@belmont.it> wrote in message news:<060220030822422060%portia@belmont.it>... > In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, Clairel > <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > > did. Hmm. > > People are too busy dissing the ep/writer/Kennedy/Willow, MEs > disinterest and f**k knows what all else to pay any attention to this > momentous event. Besides which, the Spike haters will only discuss > Spike issues with the stock answer "with a stake", and the Buffy haters > (like Amanda who responded above) are in their universe where Buffy is > a Bad Girl, placing all their bets on the seriously forlorn hope that > Some Day She Will Pay for her sins. > > Well, like you, I care. I adore BtVS, I adore Buffy, and I adore Spike. > I have been fretting over this damned chip for two years now, waiting > for this moment. A good kind of fretting. This season is working for me > like no season since S3. I love the BB arc, I love the lull in the BB > arc we are now in, where we get to catch up on a coupla things. Yeah, > the Giles fake out looks like a fakeout, and it was a dud. Tough--there > is so DAMNED much going on, I can't complain. > > <digression> > I rolled my eyes last week at all the flak Potential took--what a great > little ep, although a little unevenly presented. The minute I saw how > low key this ep was, along with the absence of "new" material, I knew > what the reaction would be. "Filler" is what this ng calls anything > that is character-driven. What on earth do people want--Hush every > week? I'll tell you what I think, Clairel--I think this ng is crawling > with people who have extremely limited attention spans, who are not > interested in identifying with characters, who watch the ep once, with > one eye, and don't notice anything that isn't blatant. I know they > don't actually listen to the dialogue, cause I read enough of the idiot > questions that get raised. The impatience here is appalling--if it > doesn't happen NOW (like Buffy coming around to Spike, or Willow > showing her grief), it's too late, and if (like Ubie, or rescuing > Spike) it takes two eps to deal with, it's TAKING FOREVER. And don't > get me started on the lunacy of dissing future events based on spoilers > (you are spoiled, I believe, but thank got you don't use it to dis the > show). Eps suck because they don't contain something "unexpected" (and > that includes the chip, which is so old hat that half the posters > probably don't get it). Eps suck if they if they're character driven, > especially if they're girlie (this one, in it's Willow/Kennedy > centricity, and remember Help--a much better ep???). Unfortunately, I > think there are far more "Kill Amy, she's a bitch." "Kill Kennedy, the > actress sucks," "Yeah, de-chip Spike so he can Kill Andrew" types > running around than the Dons and Clairels and Janes and GrowlTigers and > Phillips. I don't post much--hell, I don't read much. I don't have a > beef with people who like different things in an ep than I do, but I > have no tolerance for that element which is here almost exclusively to > bitch, god bless their pointed little ears--they do give my killjoy > file a work out. > </digression> > > So my point is: Good Golly Miss Molly, there is not one iota of doubt > in my mind--of course Buffy will opt to remove the chip, and I am > THRILLED about it! I was as surprised as you at the lack of conviction > in people's responses. "She should leave it in, after all, he could > still kill people."!? Hello! Watching the show this season? Notice that > a graph of the Spike subplot is a straight arrow? Anybody paying > attention to the Season arc--or the episode itself--can see it. I > mean, what was the point of bringing up the issue, otherwise? (My money > was on the First using the chip to control Spike, btw *G*). IMHO, it > wasn't necessary to include the answer in the ep where it belonged (and > where there was no room for it, alas). There is only one answer. And I > can't tell you how pleased I am about it. I'll have a quiet clink of > the glass with you, and a sly grin. Because in the end, I can't help > feeling that those of us who Get It and are, yes, despite the flaws, > enjoying this arc; this season; and above all, these characters, are > the lucky ones. --Oh, I do feel lucky to have such a great source of enjoyment for an hour a week, 22 weeks of the year. (And AtS has been really good lately too.) I feel privileged and grateful. Portia, it's as if you're my long-lost twin sister. How I wish you would join the group that Jacque1in announced, Spikes_Soul! I think you'd be really happy posting there. Certainly there wouldn't be the reasons for dissatisfaction that you pointed out here. It's great to have a discussion group consisting of people who actually *like* BtVS, and the characters, and the ME writers. Clairel

2003-02-06 13:32:46-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> wrote in message news:<a-70B2EC.08045606022003@husk.cso.niu.edu>... > In article <Jyt0a.2461$1q2.246563@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, > "Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote: > > > The chip decision would have been much more interesting if told before Spike > > had gotten a soul. Now it's almost a moot point. Souled Spike under his > > own control has shown to be very reticent about killing at all. A very > > interesting story would have been in season 6 if Buffy was given the same > > choice while in her relationship with Spike. What would she do? With that > > idea you could have propeled the Spuffy relationship further(she trusts > > Spike enough to be free of the chip even if she doesn't totally trust > > herself to make that decision, so she goes to Giles for consel). A complex > > moral about trust in one's self and others could have been weaved from it > > but instead we get Spike the rapist... > > If Buffy removed Spike's chip before he got a soul he would have gone on > a killing spree. Remember, when he discovered he could hit Buffy the > first thing he went out to do was try and kill and feed on an innocent > woman he would in an alleyway. --I once thought as Chris Zabel did but now, reluctantly, I must agree with Darwin. ME's conception of pre-soul Spike seems to be that he couldn't be trusted and really shouldn't have been dechipped. I used to think Buffy was too hard on Spike, but, sadly, I now think she had some valid reasons for distrust of him then (though, even so, I think she mishandled a lot of things and made a lot of bad decisions with regard to Spike). That's why I have come to welcome the Spike-gets-a-soul plotline, and why I especially treasure Buffy's new conclusion "I believe in you, Spike" as of NLM. Of course this all makes the decision to remove Spike's chip much less controversial; but that's only if one agrees with Buffy and sees Spike as she sees him. And not everyone here does, do they? Clairel

2003-02-06 13:32:46-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


Darwin Fish <a@a.edu> wrote in message news:<a-70B2EC.08045606022003@husk.cso.niu.edu>... > In article <Jyt0a.2461$1q2.246563@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, > "Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote: > > > The chip decision would have been much more interesting if told before Spike > > had gotten a soul. Now it's almost a moot point. Souled Spike under his > > own control has shown to be very reticent about killing at all. A very > > interesting story would have been in season 6 if Buffy was given the same > > choice while in her relationship with Spike. What would she do? With that > > idea you could have propeled the Spuffy relationship further(she trusts > > Spike enough to be free of the chip even if she doesn't totally trust > > herself to make that decision, so she goes to Giles for consel). A complex > > moral about trust in one's self and others could have been weaved from it > > but instead we get Spike the rapist... > > If Buffy removed Spike's chip before he got a soul he would have gone on > a killing spree. Remember, when he discovered he could hit Buffy the > first thing he went out to do was try and kill and feed on an innocent > woman he would in an alleyway. --I once thought as Chris Zabel did but now, reluctantly, I must agree with Darwin. ME's conception of pre-soul Spike seems to be that he couldn't be trusted and really shouldn't have been dechipped. I used to think Buffy was too hard on Spike, but, sadly, I now think she had some valid reasons for distrust of him then (though, even so, I think she mishandled a lot of things and made a lot of bad decisions with regard to Spike). That's why I have come to welcome the Spike-gets-a-soul plotline, and why I especially treasure Buffy's new conclusion "I believe in you, Spike" as of NLM. Of course this all makes the decision to remove Spike's chip much less controversial; but that's only if one agrees with Buffy and sees Spike as she sees him. And not everyone here does, do they? Clairel

2003-02-06 13:37:45+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Chris Zabel <alephnull@earthlink.net>)


The chip decision would have been much more interesting if told before Spike had gotten a soul. Now it's almost a moot point. Souled Spike under his own control has shown to be very reticent about killing at all. A very interesting story would have been in season 6 if Buffy was given the same choice while in her relationship with Spike. What would she do? With that idea you could have propeled the Spuffy relationship further(she trusts Spike enough to be free of the chip even if she doesn't totally trust herself to make that decision, so she goes to Giles for consel). A complex moral about trust in one's self and others could have been weaved from it but instead we get Spike the rapist...

2003-02-06 13:37:45+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Chris Zabel <alephnull@earthlink.net>)


The chip decision would have been much more interesting if told before Spike had gotten a soul. Now it's almost a moot point. Souled Spike under his own control has shown to be very reticent about killing at all. A very interesting story would have been in season 6 if Buffy was given the same choice while in her relationship with Spike. What would she do? With that idea you could have propeled the Spuffy relationship further(she trusts Spike enough to be free of the chip even if she doesn't totally trust herself to make that decision, so she goes to Giles for consel). A complex moral about trust in one's self and others could have been weaved from it but instead we get Spike the rapist...

2003-02-06 17:11:39+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (sillyman@famous.com)


On Thu, 06 Feb 2003 13:37:45 GMT, "Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote: ). A complex >moral about trust in one's self and others could have been weaved from it >but instead we get Spike the rapist... > > I'm a little vague on what you are driving at. If you are saying you thought the rape story was a poorer choice I think I agree. If you are saying you don't like the development of Spike being a rapist I would counter that it is unlikely that this is a recent development. We know Spike likes rough sex. We know he has no difficulty getting wood for a human. We know he spent 100+ years as a monster satisfying his desires with no conscience to restrain him and no human, even the Slayer, strong enough to stop him. I'm confident that along with the killing and maiming Spike was doing a whole bunch of raping. I didn't leap to a conclusion. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.

2003-02-06 17:11:39+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (sillyman@famous.com)


On Thu, 06 Feb 2003 13:37:45 GMT, "Chris Zabel" <alephnull@earthlink.net> wrote: ). A complex >moral about trust in one's self and others could have been weaved from it >but instead we get Spike the rapist... > > I'm a little vague on what you are driving at. If you are saying you thought the rape story was a poorer choice I think I agree. If you are saying you don't like the development of Spike being a rapist I would counter that it is unlikely that this is a recent development. We know Spike likes rough sex. We know he has no difficulty getting wood for a human. We know he spent 100+ years as a monster satisfying his desires with no conscience to restrain him and no human, even the Slayer, strong enough to stop him. I'm confident that along with the killing and maiming Spike was doing a whole bunch of raping. I didn't leap to a conclusion. I took a tiny step, and there conclusions were.

2003-02-06 18:29:51+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>)


portia wrote: > > So my point is: Good Golly Miss Molly, there is not one iota of doubt > in my mind--of course Buffy will opt to remove the chip, and I am > THRILLED about it! I was as surprised as you at the lack of conviction > in people's responses. "She should leave it in, after all, he could > still kill people."!? Hello! Watching the show this season? Notice that > a graph of the Spike subplot is a straight arrow? Anybody paying > attention to the Season arc--or the episode itself--can see it. I > mean, what was the point of bringing up the issue, otherwise? (My money > was on the First using the chip to control Spike, btw *G*). IMHO, it > wasn't necessary to include the answer in the ep where it belonged (and > where there was no room for it, alas). There is only one answer. And I > can't tell you how pleased I am about it. I'll have a quiet clink of > the glass with you, and a sly grin. Because in the end, I can't help > feeling that those of us who Get It and are, yes, despite the flaws, > enjoying this arc; this season; and above all, these characters, are > the lucky ones. > > > p0rtia Too true and well said! I am sick at the thought that this is the last series of Buffy. Yes, I have a life, thank you, and Buffy has been part of it for 7 years, first as a show I enjoyed even though back then (whisper it) I didn't tape it <gulp>, then, after I started to tape it, found groups like this, started to write fan fic...well I'm addicted and proud of it. There will be a hole in my life when it goes. I'll live, I won't turn to drink (any more than usual <g>). I won't be depressed for months but, yes, I expect to watch the last episode with tears making it look all blurry. I'm upset at some of the plot holes and wasted opportunities but I still love the show, look forward to it every week it's on and nothing would stop me watching it now. I know that Buffy will take the chip out because she told us already; she told Spike she believed in him. That was before he was tortured for days and still didn't cave in. Do we really think she'll feel any differently now? She said the chip didn't save the people who sadly died when FE was in charge of Spike and she never minded being around an unchipped Angel. She has a deep mistrust of the Initiative and I can't see her being keen on letting their little experiment continue. Spike's chip is going. The training wheels are off. He's got a new chip now. It's called a conscience. The only sad bit is that Xander's been pretty nice to Spike of late so we won't see the lads fight..;-)) Jane -- My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516 and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html

2003-02-06 18:29:51+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>)


portia wrote: > > So my point is: Good Golly Miss Molly, there is not one iota of doubt > in my mind--of course Buffy will opt to remove the chip, and I am > THRILLED about it! I was as surprised as you at the lack of conviction > in people's responses. "She should leave it in, after all, he could > still kill people."!? Hello! Watching the show this season? Notice that > a graph of the Spike subplot is a straight arrow? Anybody paying > attention to the Season arc--or the episode itself--can see it. I > mean, what was the point of bringing up the issue, otherwise? (My money > was on the First using the chip to control Spike, btw *G*). IMHO, it > wasn't necessary to include the answer in the ep where it belonged (and > where there was no room for it, alas). There is only one answer. And I > can't tell you how pleased I am about it. I'll have a quiet clink of > the glass with you, and a sly grin. Because in the end, I can't help > feeling that those of us who Get It and are, yes, despite the flaws, > enjoying this arc; this season; and above all, these characters, are > the lucky ones. > > > p0rtia Too true and well said! I am sick at the thought that this is the last series of Buffy. Yes, I have a life, thank you, and Buffy has been part of it for 7 years, first as a show I enjoyed even though back then (whisper it) I didn't tape it <gulp>, then, after I started to tape it, found groups like this, started to write fan fic...well I'm addicted and proud of it. There will be a hole in my life when it goes. I'll live, I won't turn to drink (any more than usual <g>). I won't be depressed for months but, yes, I expect to watch the last episode with tears making it look all blurry. I'm upset at some of the plot holes and wasted opportunities but I still love the show, look forward to it every week it's on and nothing would stop me watching it now. I know that Buffy will take the chip out because she told us already; she told Spike she believed in him. That was before he was tortured for days and still didn't cave in. Do we really think she'll feel any differently now? She said the chip didn't save the people who sadly died when FE was in charge of Spike and she never minded being around an unchipped Angel. She has a deep mistrust of the Initiative and I can't see her being keen on letting their little experiment continue. Spike's chip is going. The training wheels are off. He's got a new chip now. It's called a conscience. The only sad bit is that Xander's been pretty nice to Spike of late so we won't see the lads fight..;-)) Jane -- My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516 and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html

2003-02-07 03:14:24+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Amanda <YBIA@optonline.net>)


<<Buffy's a good person. 6+ seasons of BtVS have clearly shown us that. Anybody that doesn't see that is a moron.>> Hehehe, I've been flamed! Amanda

2003-02-07 03:14:24+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Amanda <YBIA@optonline.net>)


<<Buffy's a good person. 6+ seasons of BtVS have clearly shown us that. Anybody that doesn't see that is a moron.>> Hehehe, I've been flamed! Amanda

2003-02-07 03:34:35+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Amanda <YBIA@optonline.net>)


<<What would improve your opinion of Buffy, Amanda?>> I would like her to be more honest with the people she loves, not just Spike, but the whole damn gang. She's always given information out to them on a need to know basis, and then only grudgingly. I can name countless times in every season where she's lied to Giles, to Willow, to Xander, to Dawn, to Joyce, to Riley, to Angel. She's not very honest about her feelings, or how the things going on around her effect her. Her gift is death, and not just in dying to save Dawn, but in killing all these creatures that have lost their souls. This cannot be easy for her, but consistently what's kept her alive is her loved ones. If the theme of the Buffy show is anything, is you survive longer with friends. And what does Buffy do? She lies to them and keeps them at arms length. I would like Buffy to be less preachy. She is NOT the only thing that stands between evil. Lots of things do that, as we've seen countless times. Buffy has always been preachy, in past seasons it's been less apparent because of good writing, but now there is nothing holding Buffy back from thinking she's the best thing about the group. She doesn't even see the good things that other people do for her. She rarely sees what is going on in the group. Which leads me to my next peeve about Buffy. She is the guardian of her sister. I've been there, I've done that. I know what it takes to take care of a teenager when you're barely out of your teens yourself. She ignores Dawn. She doesn't know what is happening in Dawn's life. Dawn doesn't have anyone she can talk about her feelings with. In the episode before last, Xander finally caught on and talked to her a bit, but this is something Buffy should have caught onto in the beginning of season five. She's a lousy guardian, and I have no patience for that. In short, if Buffy became honest, got rid of the superiority complex, and developed a healthy relationship with her family, (and I include the scoobies in this definition of family, they've stuck by her despite her HUGE personality problems) she would be much more likable in my eyes. I am not going to talk about SMG. That's for another post. Amanda

2003-02-07 03:34:35+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Amanda <YBIA@optonline.net>)


<<What would improve your opinion of Buffy, Amanda?>> I would like her to be more honest with the people she loves, not just Spike, but the whole damn gang. She's always given information out to them on a need to know basis, and then only grudgingly. I can name countless times in every season where she's lied to Giles, to Willow, to Xander, to Dawn, to Joyce, to Riley, to Angel. She's not very honest about her feelings, or how the things going on around her effect her. Her gift is death, and not just in dying to save Dawn, but in killing all these creatures that have lost their souls. This cannot be easy for her, but consistently what's kept her alive is her loved ones. If the theme of the Buffy show is anything, is you survive longer with friends. And what does Buffy do? She lies to them and keeps them at arms length. I would like Buffy to be less preachy. She is NOT the only thing that stands between evil. Lots of things do that, as we've seen countless times. Buffy has always been preachy, in past seasons it's been less apparent because of good writing, but now there is nothing holding Buffy back from thinking she's the best thing about the group. She doesn't even see the good things that other people do for her. She rarely sees what is going on in the group. Which leads me to my next peeve about Buffy. She is the guardian of her sister. I've been there, I've done that. I know what it takes to take care of a teenager when you're barely out of your teens yourself. She ignores Dawn. She doesn't know what is happening in Dawn's life. Dawn doesn't have anyone she can talk about her feelings with. In the episode before last, Xander finally caught on and talked to her a bit, but this is something Buffy should have caught onto in the beginning of season five. She's a lousy guardian, and I have no patience for that. In short, if Buffy became honest, got rid of the superiority complex, and developed a healthy relationship with her family, (and I include the scoobies in this definition of family, they've stuck by her despite her HUGE personality problems) she would be much more likable in my eyes. I am not going to talk about SMG. That's for another post. Amanda

2003-02-07 04:32:03+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Smaug69 <smaug69xx@carolinaxx.rrxx.com>)




2003-02-07 04:32:03+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Smaug69 <smaug69xx@carolinaxx.rrxx.com>)




2003-02-07 05:36:46+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Amanda <YBIA@optonline.net>)


<<You can say anything you want about Spike, but don't mess with Buffy! :-P>> Buffy sucks. See other post as per why. Amanda

2003-02-07 05:36:46+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Amanda <YBIA@optonline.net>)


<<You can say anything you want about Spike, but don't mess with Buffy! :-P>> Buffy sucks. See other post as per why. Amanda

2003-02-07 06:22:38+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (portia <portia@belmont.it>)


In article <1faed770.0302061327.4fbe4355@posting.google.com>, Clairel <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > portia <portia@belmont.it> wrote in message > news:<060220030822422060%portia@belmont.it>... > > In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, Clairel > > <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > > > > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > > > > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > > > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > > > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > > > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > > > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > > > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > > > did. Hmm. > > > > People are too busy dissing the ep/writer/Kennedy/Willow, MEs > > disinterest and f**k knows what all else to pay any attention to this > > momentous event. Besides which, the Spike haters will only discuss > > Spike issues with the stock answer "with a stake", and the Buffy haters > > (like Amanda who responded above) are in their universe where Buffy is > > a Bad Girl, placing all their bets on the seriously forlorn hope that > > Some Day She Will Pay for her sins. > > > > Well, like you, I care. I adore BtVS, I adore Buffy, and I adore Spike. > > I have been fretting over this damned chip for two years now, waiting > > for this moment. A good kind of fretting. This season is working for me > > like no season since S3. I love the BB arc, I love the lull in the BB > > arc we are now in, where we get to catch up on a coupla things. Yeah, > > the Giles fake out looks like a fakeout, and it was a dud. Tough--there > > is so DAMNED much going on, I can't complain. > > > > <digression> > > I rolled my eyes last week at all the flak Potential took--what a great > > little ep, although a little unevenly presented. The minute I saw how > > low key this ep was, along with the absence of "new" material, I knew > > what the reaction would be. "Filler" is what this ng calls anything > > that is character-driven. What on earth do people want--Hush every > > week? I'll tell you what I think, Clairel--I think this ng is crawling > > with people who have extremely limited attention spans, who are not > > interested in identifying with characters, who watch the ep once, with > > one eye, and don't notice anything that isn't blatant. I know they > > don't actually listen to the dialogue, cause I read enough of the idiot > > questions that get raised. The impatience here is appalling--if it > > doesn't happen NOW (like Buffy coming around to Spike, or Willow > > showing her grief), it's too late, and if (like Ubie, or rescuing > > Spike) it takes two eps to deal with, it's TAKING FOREVER. And don't > > get me started on the lunacy of dissing future events based on spoilers > > (you are spoiled, I believe, but thank got you don't use it to dis the > > show). Eps suck because they don't contain something "unexpected" (and > > that includes the chip, which is so old hat that half the posters > > probably don't get it). Eps suck if they if they're character driven, > > especially if they're girlie (this one, in it's Willow/Kennedy > > centricity, and remember Help--a much better ep???). Unfortunately, I > > think there are far more "Kill Amy, she's a bitch." "Kill Kennedy, the > > actress sucks," "Yeah, de-chip Spike so he can Kill Andrew" types > > running around than the Dons and Clairels and Janes and GrowlTigers and > > Phillips. I don't post much--hell, I don't read much. I don't have a > > beef with people who like different things in an ep than I do, but I > > have no tolerance for that element which is here almost exclusively to > > bitch, god bless their pointed little ears--they do give my killjoy > > file a work out. > > </digression> > > > > So my point is: Good Golly Miss Molly, there is not one iota of doubt > > in my mind--of course Buffy will opt to remove the chip, and I am > > THRILLED about it! I was as surprised as you at the lack of conviction > > in people's responses. "She should leave it in, after all, he could > > still kill people."!? Hello! Watching the show this season? Notice that > > a graph of the Spike subplot is a straight arrow? Anybody paying > > attention to the Season arc--or the episode itself--can see it. I > > mean, what was the point of bringing up the issue, otherwise? (My money > > was on the First using the chip to control Spike, btw *G*). IMHO, it > > wasn't necessary to include the answer in the ep where it belonged (and > > where there was no room for it, alas). There is only one answer. And I > > can't tell you how pleased I am about it. I'll have a quiet clink of > > the glass with you, and a sly grin. Because in the end, I can't help > > feeling that those of us who Get It and are, yes, despite the flaws, > > enjoying this arc; this season; and above all, these characters, are > > the lucky ones. > > --Oh, I do feel lucky to have such a great source of enjoyment for an > hour a week, 22 weeks of the year. (And AtS has been really good > lately too.) I feel privileged and grateful. > > Portia, it's as if you're my long-lost twin sister. How I wish you > would join the group that Jacque1in announced, Spikes_Soul! I think > you'd be really happy posting there. Certainly there wouldn't be the > reasons for dissatisfaction that you pointed out here. It's great to > have a discussion group consisting of people who actually *like* BtVS, > and the characters, and the ME writers. > > Clairel Thanks, Clairel (and Randy and Jane....hmmm, have you guys thought of teaming up in the superhero biz? *LOL*). As you know, I always read and enjoy your posts, too--actually, I think we differ just enough to make it interesting. *G* I _did_ check out SS, and maybe I'm wrong, but thought it looked too shippy for me. I think it's fun, and quite human, to describe one's self as pulling for a certain ship, but I don't like when the ship becomes the focal point. I come here to read about ten people who do critical analysis (which is what I like) and to read George's poll results. I wade through acres of stuff I am either not interested in (the lively "speculative" posters who seem to have a good time) or am allergic to (the sort we've been talking about). Sometimes the "favorite ep" threads are fun. It's my choice. I know what Usenet is, and sometimes I need to blow off steam. Fortunately I'm on a couple of listservs that are pretty even-keeled. Anyway, carry on! Oh, and hey, in the middle of the night I found myself wondering whether comic books had anything to do with attention spans. I've never read a comic book in my life (nothing against them, just a fact). Maybe it's the geek factor after all *G*. Cheers, portia

2003-02-07 06:22:38+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (portia <portia@belmont.it>)


In article <1faed770.0302061327.4fbe4355@posting.google.com>, Clairel <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > portia <portia@belmont.it> wrote in message > news:<060220030822422060%portia@belmont.it>... > > In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, Clairel > > <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > > > > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > > > > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > > > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > > > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > > > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > > > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > > > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > > > did. Hmm. > > > > People are too busy dissing the ep/writer/Kennedy/Willow, MEs > > disinterest and f**k knows what all else to pay any attention to this > > momentous event. Besides which, the Spike haters will only discuss > > Spike issues with the stock answer "with a stake", and the Buffy haters > > (like Amanda who responded above) are in their universe where Buffy is > > a Bad Girl, placing all their bets on the seriously forlorn hope that > > Some Day She Will Pay for her sins. > > > > Well, like you, I care. I adore BtVS, I adore Buffy, and I adore Spike. > > I have been fretting over this damned chip for two years now, waiting > > for this moment. A good kind of fretting. This season is working for me > > like no season since S3. I love the BB arc, I love the lull in the BB > > arc we are now in, where we get to catch up on a coupla things. Yeah, > > the Giles fake out looks like a fakeout, and it was a dud. Tough--there > > is so DAMNED much going on, I can't complain. > > > > <digression> > > I rolled my eyes last week at all the flak Potential took--what a great > > little ep, although a little unevenly presented. The minute I saw how > > low key this ep was, along with the absence of "new" material, I knew > > what the reaction would be. "Filler" is what this ng calls anything > > that is character-driven. What on earth do people want--Hush every > > week? I'll tell you what I think, Clairel--I think this ng is crawling > > with people who have extremely limited attention spans, who are not > > interested in identifying with characters, who watch the ep once, with > > one eye, and don't notice anything that isn't blatant. I know they > > don't actually listen to the dialogue, cause I read enough of the idiot > > questions that get raised. The impatience here is appalling--if it > > doesn't happen NOW (like Buffy coming around to Spike, or Willow > > showing her grief), it's too late, and if (like Ubie, or rescuing > > Spike) it takes two eps to deal with, it's TAKING FOREVER. And don't > > get me started on the lunacy of dissing future events based on spoilers > > (you are spoiled, I believe, but thank got you don't use it to dis the > > show). Eps suck because they don't contain something "unexpected" (and > > that includes the chip, which is so old hat that half the posters > > probably don't get it). Eps suck if they if they're character driven, > > especially if they're girlie (this one, in it's Willow/Kennedy > > centricity, and remember Help--a much better ep???). Unfortunately, I > > think there are far more "Kill Amy, she's a bitch." "Kill Kennedy, the > > actress sucks," "Yeah, de-chip Spike so he can Kill Andrew" types > > running around than the Dons and Clairels and Janes and GrowlTigers and > > Phillips. I don't post much--hell, I don't read much. I don't have a > > beef with people who like different things in an ep than I do, but I > > have no tolerance for that element which is here almost exclusively to > > bitch, god bless their pointed little ears--they do give my killjoy > > file a work out. > > </digression> > > > > So my point is: Good Golly Miss Molly, there is not one iota of doubt > > in my mind--of course Buffy will opt to remove the chip, and I am > > THRILLED about it! I was as surprised as you at the lack of conviction > > in people's responses. "She should leave it in, after all, he could > > still kill people."!? Hello! Watching the show this season? Notice that > > a graph of the Spike subplot is a straight arrow? Anybody paying > > attention to the Season arc--or the episode itself--can see it. I > > mean, what was the point of bringing up the issue, otherwise? (My money > > was on the First using the chip to control Spike, btw *G*). IMHO, it > > wasn't necessary to include the answer in the ep where it belonged (and > > where there was no room for it, alas). There is only one answer. And I > > can't tell you how pleased I am about it. I'll have a quiet clink of > > the glass with you, and a sly grin. Because in the end, I can't help > > feeling that those of us who Get It and are, yes, despite the flaws, > > enjoying this arc; this season; and above all, these characters, are > > the lucky ones. > > --Oh, I do feel lucky to have such a great source of enjoyment for an > hour a week, 22 weeks of the year. (And AtS has been really good > lately too.) I feel privileged and grateful. > > Portia, it's as if you're my long-lost twin sister. How I wish you > would join the group that Jacque1in announced, Spikes_Soul! I think > you'd be really happy posting there. Certainly there wouldn't be the > reasons for dissatisfaction that you pointed out here. It's great to > have a discussion group consisting of people who actually *like* BtVS, > and the characters, and the ME writers. > > Clairel Thanks, Clairel (and Randy and Jane....hmmm, have you guys thought of teaming up in the superhero biz? *LOL*). As you know, I always read and enjoy your posts, too--actually, I think we differ just enough to make it interesting. *G* I _did_ check out SS, and maybe I'm wrong, but thought it looked too shippy for me. I think it's fun, and quite human, to describe one's self as pulling for a certain ship, but I don't like when the ship becomes the focal point. I come here to read about ten people who do critical analysis (which is what I like) and to read George's poll results. I wade through acres of stuff I am either not interested in (the lively "speculative" posters who seem to have a good time) or am allergic to (the sort we've been talking about). Sometimes the "favorite ep" threads are fun. It's my choice. I know what Usenet is, and sometimes I need to blow off steam. Fortunately I'm on a couple of listservs that are pretty even-keeled. Anyway, carry on! Oh, and hey, in the middle of the night I found myself wondering whether comic books had anything to do with attention spans. I've never read a comic book in my life (nothing against them, just a fact). Maybe it's the geek factor after all *G*. Cheers, portia

2003-02-07 15:12:24-05:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (anglican****@neptune.on.ca)


. > > > In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, Clairel > > > <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > > > > > > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > OK, here's me, being uncertain... 1) Repair it. You never know how that soul-thing is going to turn out. Granted, this wasn't a gypsy curse thing, but who knows what escape clauses the African demony guy might have built into Spike's ensoulment? Should that soul ever get out, the chip has to be in working order. Additionally, experience with the other souled vampire seems to suggest that the soul doesn't remove the desire to feed on humans. Repairing the chip might actually be an act of compassion for Spike's (presumed) battle between the man and the demon inside. 2) Remove it. Only argument here, and it's a biggie: "I believe in you, Spike." Actions speak louder than words, and how's he going to react if she's had it repaired? I suppose she could lie, say the Initiative would only permit that option, but it still comes down to whether she's willing to walk the talk. Me, I'd repair it, no hesitation. Buffy? I honestly don't know (and if you have spoilers, I don't want them... yet) Heather Miss December

2003-02-07 15:12:24-05:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (anglican****@neptune.on.ca)


. > > > In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, Clairel > > > <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > > > > > > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > OK, here's me, being uncertain... 1) Repair it. You never know how that soul-thing is going to turn out. Granted, this wasn't a gypsy curse thing, but who knows what escape clauses the African demony guy might have built into Spike's ensoulment? Should that soul ever get out, the chip has to be in working order. Additionally, experience with the other souled vampire seems to suggest that the soul doesn't remove the desire to feed on humans. Repairing the chip might actually be an act of compassion for Spike's (presumed) battle between the man and the demon inside. 2) Remove it. Only argument here, and it's a biggie: "I believe in you, Spike." Actions speak louder than words, and how's he going to react if she's had it repaired? I suppose she could lie, say the Initiative would only permit that option, but it still comes down to whether she's willing to walk the talk. Me, I'd repair it, no hesitation. Buffy? I honestly don't know (and if you have spoilers, I don't want them... yet) Heather Miss December

2003-02-07 15:14:17-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (sunryse@centurytel.net)


reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>... > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. > > Clairel Spike killed with both the soul and the chip, at this point, by removing the chip it's no big deal, it's really not accomplishing much. Now last season if Buffy instead of beating him down every chance she got, would have said "I believe in you", than take out the chip, now that would have been a story. Right now I feel like, so what? Is there really any question as to what Buffy will do? Jul

2003-02-07 15:14:17-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (sunryse@centurytel.net)


reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>... > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > did. Hmm. > > Clairel Spike killed with both the soul and the chip, at this point, by removing the chip it's no big deal, it's really not accomplishing much. Now last season if Buffy instead of beating him down every chance she got, would have said "I believe in you", than take out the chip, now that would have been a story. Right now I feel like, so what? Is there really any question as to what Buffy will do? Jul

2003-02-08 01:41:57+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Smaug69 <smaug69xx@carolinaxx.rrxx.com>)




2003-02-08 01:41:57+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Smaug69 <smaug69xx@carolinaxx.rrxx.com>)




2003-02-08 10:01:49-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


sunryse@centurytel.net (Juleen) wrote in message news:<90a81e71.0302071514.75d9f005@posting.google.com>... > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>... > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > > did. Hmm. > > > > Clairel > > Spike killed with both the soul and the chip, at this point, by > removing the chip it's no big deal, it's really not accomplishing > much. Now last season if Buffy instead of beating him down every > chance she got, would have said "I believe in you", than take out the > chip, now that would have been a story. Right now I feel like, so > what? > > Is there really any question as to what Buffy will do? > > Jul --To people who watch the show and don't go on line discussing it, there seems to be a question. That's the water cooler buzz, anyway. Clairel

2003-02-08 10:01:49-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


sunryse@centurytel.net (Juleen) wrote in message news:<90a81e71.0302071514.75d9f005@posting.google.com>... > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>... > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > > did. Hmm. > > > > Clairel > > Spike killed with both the soul and the chip, at this point, by > removing the chip it's no big deal, it's really not accomplishing > much. Now last season if Buffy instead of beating him down every > chance she got, would have said "I believe in you", than take out the > chip, now that would have been a story. Right now I feel like, so > what? > > Is there really any question as to what Buffy will do? > > Jul --To people who watch the show and don't go on line discussing it, there seems to be a question. That's the water cooler buzz, anyway. Clairel

2003-02-08 10:03:49-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


anglican****@neptune.on.ca wrote in message news:<3E441327.F7957D07@neptune.on.ca>... > . > > > > In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, Clairel > > > > <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > > > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > > > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > > > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > > > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > > > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > > > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > > > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > > > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > > OK, here's me, being uncertain... > > 1) Repair it. You never know how that soul-thing is going to turn out. > Granted, this wasn't a gypsy curse thing, but who knows what escape clauses the > African demony guy might have built into Spike's ensoulment? Should that soul > ever get out, the chip has to be in working order. > Additionally, experience with the other souled vampire seems to suggest that the > soul doesn't remove the desire to feed on humans. Repairing the chip might > actually be an act of compassion for Spike's (presumed) battle between the man > and the demon inside. > > 2) Remove it. Only argument here, and it's a biggie: "I believe in you, Spike." > Actions speak louder than words, and how's he going to react if she's had it > repaired? I suppose she could lie, say the Initiative would only permit that > option, but it still comes down to whether she's willing to walk the talk. > > Me, I'd repair it, no hesitation. Buffy? I honestly don't know (and if you > have spoilers, I don't want them... yet) --Well, there's a take on it I haven't seen before. Interesting perspective, that it could be kinder to Spike to keep him chipped. But what about human opponents, then? Human bad guys like the Knights of Byzantium, who need to be stopped from killing innocents? Because of that, and also for the sake of Spike's self-respect, I think he really needs the chip removed. Clairel

2003-02-08 10:03:49-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (reldevik@usa.net)


anglican****@neptune.on.ca wrote in message news:<3E441327.F7957D07@neptune.on.ca>... > . > > > > In article <1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>, Clairel > > > > <reldevik@usa.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > > > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > > > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > > > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > > > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > > > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > > > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > > > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > > > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > > OK, here's me, being uncertain... > > 1) Repair it. You never know how that soul-thing is going to turn out. > Granted, this wasn't a gypsy curse thing, but who knows what escape clauses the > African demony guy might have built into Spike's ensoulment? Should that soul > ever get out, the chip has to be in working order. > Additionally, experience with the other souled vampire seems to suggest that the > soul doesn't remove the desire to feed on humans. Repairing the chip might > actually be an act of compassion for Spike's (presumed) battle between the man > and the demon inside. > > 2) Remove it. Only argument here, and it's a biggie: "I believe in you, Spike." > Actions speak louder than words, and how's he going to react if she's had it > repaired? I suppose she could lie, say the Initiative would only permit that > option, but it still comes down to whether she's willing to walk the talk. > > Me, I'd repair it, no hesitation. Buffy? I honestly don't know (and if you > have spoilers, I don't want them... yet) --Well, there's a take on it I haven't seen before. Interesting perspective, that it could be kinder to Spike to keep him chipped. But what about human opponents, then? Human bad guys like the Knights of Byzantium, who need to be stopped from killing innocents? Because of that, and also for the sake of Spike's self-respect, I think he really needs the chip removed. Clairel

2003-02-08 18:13:48+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Ariana <ariana@NOSPAM.ndirect.co.uk>)


"Smaug69" <smaug69xx@carolinaxx.rrxx.com> wrote in message news:22o84v8gm6tq3l13859ttlv5a6s7mcml6r@4ax.com... > From somewhere over there "Amanda" <YBIA@optonline.net> mumbled > incoherently: > > >Buffy sucks. See other post as per why. > > Spike's a pathetic loser who deserves to be staked- soul or no soul. They're obviously made for each other! :) Ariana

2003-02-08 18:13:48+00:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Ariana <ariana@NOSPAM.ndirect.co.uk>)


"Smaug69" <smaug69xx@carolinaxx.rrxx.com> wrote in message news:22o84v8gm6tq3l13859ttlv5a6s7mcml6r@4ax.com... > From somewhere over there "Amanda" <YBIA@optonline.net> mumbled > incoherently: > > >Buffy sucks. See other post as per why. > > Spike's a pathetic loser who deserves to be staked- soul or no soul. They're obviously made for each other! :) Ariana

2003-02-09 20:33:43-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (IsabelleC@webtv.net)




2003-02-09 20:33:43-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (IsabelleC@webtv.net)




2003-02-09 23:00:53-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (himiko@animail.net)


"Christian McNeill" <red@underground.com.au> wrote in message news:<3e46df02@news.brisbane.pipenetworks.com>... > > I find it amazing that people think it's Buffy decision and Buffy's decision > alone. It's not. Spike does have a say to what will happen. And I'm > absolutely certain he will insist that the chip be repaired. But I'm just > as certain that once Spike goes underthe knife she'll have instructed them > to remove it. All because she trusts him to do the right thing (and because > she believes it's the right thing to do and because she's always right). > Spike will resent her for ignoring his wishes. > > You just have to pick the outcome that creates to most angst. Now, this would be an interesting outcome. I hope we get it. But I think Spike was beyond the point of stating his wishes by the time the Initiative guys got there, so the resentment would be muted. Still, he might not agree with Buffy's decision, and that would be very interesting indeed. himiko

2003-02-09 23:00:53-08:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (himiko@animail.net)


"Christian McNeill" <red@underground.com.au> wrote in message news:<3e46df02@news.brisbane.pipenetworks.com>... > > I find it amazing that people think it's Buffy decision and Buffy's decision > alone. It's not. Spike does have a say to what will happen. And I'm > absolutely certain he will insist that the chip be repaired. But I'm just > as certain that once Spike goes underthe knife she'll have instructed them > to remove it. All because she trusts him to do the right thing (and because > she believes it's the right thing to do and because she's always right). > Spike will resent her for ignoring his wishes. > > You just have to pick the outcome that creates to most angst. Now, this would be an interesting outcome. I hope we get it. But I think Spike was beyond the point of stating his wishes by the time the Initiative guys got there, so the resentment would be muted. Still, he might not agree with Buffy's decision, and that would be very interesting indeed. himiko

2003-02-10 08:56:13+10:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Christian McNeill <red@underground.com.au>)


"NightBaron" <bergeg@parl.gc.ca> wrote in message news:24ab6293.0302061013.5da09447@posting.google.com... > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>... > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > > did. Hmm. > > It would be a big deal if it made any difference... Spike has a soul, > he doesn't attack humans anymore anyway. Whether the chip is repaired > or gone, it shouldn't change much in his (or our) life... I find it amazing that people think it's Buffy decision and Buffy's decision alone. It's not. Spike does have a say to what will happen. And I'm absolutely certain he will insist that the chip be repaired. But I'm just as certain that once Spike goes underthe knife she'll have instructed them to remove it. All because she trusts him to do the right thing (and because she believes it's the right thing to do and because she's always right). Spike will resent her for ignoring his wishes. You just have to pick the outcome that creates to most angst. -- ---------------------------------------- Christian McNeill red@underground.com.au "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life." - Solid Jackson, "Jingo" by Terry Pratchett

2003-02-10 08:56:13+10:00 - Re: Uncertainty about Buffy's chip decision - (Christian McNeill <red@underground.com.au>)


"NightBaron" <bergeg@parl.gc.ca> wrote in message news:24ab6293.0302061013.5da09447@posting.google.com... > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) wrote in message news:<1faed770.0302051412.3858b6c5@posting.google.com>... > > When I got to work this morning, all my co-workers who watch Buffy > > were expressing very sincere uncertainty about whether Buffy would > > tell the Initiative personnel to repair Spike's chip or remove it. I > > was surprised at this because it seems obvious to me which one is the > > right decision, and I think well enough of Buffy now to have faith > > that she *will* make the right decision. And the few comments I've > > seen here following the airing of the new episode seemed pretty blase' > > about the whole thing. If anyone here shares my co-workers' > > uncertainty, I haven't come across those posts. > > > > So is that the overall tenor here, nonchalance and certainty? > > > > I can think of a time when a Spike dechipping story would have been a > > big deal. And Buffy choosing to remove Spike's chip (which is what I > > think she will decide) when she could instead have had it repaired > > would have raised a furore. But now, hardly a raised eyebrow? > > Because Spike is soulful and good? Well, that's fine with me because > > I, like Buffy, believe in Spike. But I didn't think many people here > > did. Hmm. > > It would be a big deal if it made any difference... Spike has a soul, > he doesn't attack humans anymore anyway. Whether the chip is repaired > or gone, it shouldn't change much in his (or our) life... I find it amazing that people think it's Buffy decision and Buffy's decision alone. It's not. Spike does have a say to what will happen. And I'm absolutely certain he will insist that the chip be repaired. But I'm just as certain that once Spike goes underthe knife she'll have instructed them to remove it. All because she trusts him to do the right thing (and because she believes it's the right thing to do and because she's always right). Spike will resent her for ignoring his wishes. You just have to pick the outcome that creates to most angst. -- ---------------------------------------- Christian McNeill red@underground.com.au "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life." - Solid Jackson, "Jingo" by Terry Pratchett