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2002-12-26 23:04:57-05:00 - Re: Someone, please draw me an organization diagram! - (p_kyong@bellsouth.net)


"David Johnston" <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:3e0ba26f.334327@news.telusplanet.net... > On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 23:48:03 +0100, Michel Schudel <schudel@dds.nl> > wrote: > > >I was wondering, has anyone figured out yet how the counsil, slayers > >and "operatives" are related? > > > >Quentin Travers was talking about calling (back?) all "remaining > >operatives". Are these operatives slayers, or slayers-in-training? > > No. Giles is an operative. So were the goon squad they sent out to > apprehend or kill Faith. > The explanation that I have found in some books that were approved by JW. Giles is a Watcher and not an operative. The council has operatives and other watchers. Watchers are the ones who train and guide the Slayer and the Pretty Maids all in a Row (the nick name for the potential slayers that have been identified and the name of a good BTVS novel). Operatives are the ones who support the watchers and do other field work.They are the ones that go after rouge slayers, carry messages and artifacts from one part of the world to the other, sometimes fighting demons by themselves, etc. They also have different scholars, witches/wizards, and other personnel that work at the headquarters. > >Also, the Watcher's Counsil seems to have quite a few Watchers (Wesley > >being sent right after Giles failed the test, Giles being frustrated > >because he's not / never invited to this "Watcher's party" back in > >England). What are all these Watchers for? > > To keep track of supernatural activity. They really are Watchers, > not Slayer Trainers who call themselves Watchers. Again, the Watchers are the ones that guide the slayers or potential slayers. The operatives do the other field work. Ron

2002-12-26 23:04:57-05:00 - Re: Someone, please draw me an organization diagram! - (p_kyong@bellsouth.net)


"David Johnston" <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:3e0ba26f.334327@news.telusplanet.net... > On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 23:48:03 +0100, Michel Schudel <schudel@dds.nl> > wrote: > > >I was wondering, has anyone figured out yet how the counsil, slayers > >and "operatives" are related? > > > >Quentin Travers was talking about calling (back?) all "remaining > >operatives". Are these operatives slayers, or slayers-in-training? > > No. Giles is an operative. So were the goon squad they sent out to > apprehend or kill Faith. > The explanation that I have found in some books that were approved by JW. Giles is a Watcher and not an operative. The council has operatives and other watchers. Watchers are the ones who train and guide the Slayer and the Pretty Maids all in a Row (the nick name for the potential slayers that have been identified and the name of a good BTVS novel). Operatives are the ones who support the watchers and do other field work.They are the ones that go after rouge slayers, carry messages and artifacts from one part of the world to the other, sometimes fighting demons by themselves, etc. They also have different scholars, witches/wizards, and other personnel that work at the headquarters. > >Also, the Watcher's Counsil seems to have quite a few Watchers (Wesley > >being sent right after Giles failed the test, Giles being frustrated > >because he's not / never invited to this "Watcher's party" back in > >England). What are all these Watchers for? > > To keep track of supernatural activity. They really are Watchers, > not Slayer Trainers who call themselves Watchers. Again, the Watchers are the ones that guide the slayers or potential slayers. The operatives do the other field work. Ron

2002-12-26 23:38:36-06:00 - Re: Someone, please draw me an organization diagram! - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-castillo@enteract.com>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: Michel Schudel <schudel@dds.nl> wrote in <7s0n0voieb1932rug3riv8hbsl55gl35ei@4ax.com>: > I was wondering, has anyone figured out yet how the counsil, slayers > and "operatives" are related? The "operatives" that Travers was referring to were other Watchers. These "in the field" Watchers are probably a lot like Giles when Buffy first met him in "Welcome to the Hellmouth," they generally stay in one remote area with their books waiting for something of interest to happen. > > Quentin Travers was talking about calling (back?) all "remaining > operatives". Are these operatives slayers, or slayers-in-training? If > they are only slayers-in-training, how does this relate to a new > slayer being "called" only after the last slayer dies? There should > only be one at a time, right? (Faith and Kendra excluded). Also, Buffy There is only one slayer at a time. Faith and Kendra were exceptions. Kendra was triggered when Buffy drowned and was revived by Xander. Faith was triggered when Kendra died. There may or may not be a third slayer out there. It all depends on whether or not one was triggered by Buffy's death in "The Gift." Theory One is that with Buffy having already died once, the slayer line now runs through Faith and Buffy's death in "The Gift" and any subsequent deaths by Buffy would trigger nothing. Theory Two is that there was a slayer triggered by Buffy's death in "The Gift" but we simply haven't seen her yet. Although several ME producers have weighed in on the side of Theory One and the story so far in season seven seems to imply that Theory One is true, we have no way of knowing which theory is true from what has been presented on TV. > seemed to be completely unaware of her future job when she was called, > so how does this relate to the slayers-in-training, who seem to be > well aware of their (future) duty? Buffy slipped through the cracks somehow. Most future slayers are identified at an early age. > Also, the Watcher's Counsil seems to have quite a few Watchers (Wesley > being sent right after Giles failed the test, Giles being frustrated > because he's not / never invited to this "Watcher's party" back in > England). What are all these Watchers for? If there is only one Slayer > at a time, maybe there is only one Watcher "in the field" while the > rest are "deskjob Watchers"? ;-) > Actually, there are probably plenty of Watchers "in the field" waiting and hoping that the current slayer's Watcher drops dead so they can take over the way Giles did when Buffy's first Watcher was killed. The desk bound Watchers probably do a lot of research like the woman in "Family" who was anxious to meet Spike because she had done so much research on his career. So Watchers would probably be organized thusly: Council _________________||____________________ || || || || Researchers || || || || || || Special Ops || Slayer's Watcher || Field Operatives || || || || Trainee Watchers || Slayer Slayers in Training Researchers and Trainee Watchers would probably be the most likely to be invited to the Watcher retreat. Giles would have been a Field Operative before Buffy came to Sunnydale. Field Operatives with connections probably eventually work their way up to being Researchers while the most respected FO's are entrusted with Slayer's in Training. FO's who rock the boat are probably forgotten unless they get lucky enough to hook up with a Slayer or a promising SiT. Trainee Watchers probably go where they are sent, if they're lucky they get a Slayer (like Wesley) or SiT. If not, they become FO's and are ignored. Special Ops are probably small teams like the one that tried to kill Buffy and Faith in "This Year's Girl" and Angel's "Sanctuary" episode. Their exact role with the Watchers is unclear but it seems pretty clear that brawn is more important than brains in their job. -- "Welcome to the Hellmouth, where even outerwear isn't safe. -- Xander Harris Roberto Castillo castillo@enteract.com http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2002-12-26 23:38:36-06:00 - Re: Someone, please draw me an organization diagram! - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-castillo@enteract.com>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: Michel Schudel <schudel@dds.nl> wrote in <7s0n0voieb1932rug3riv8hbsl55gl35ei@4ax.com>: > I was wondering, has anyone figured out yet how the counsil, slayers > and "operatives" are related? The "operatives" that Travers was referring to were other Watchers. These "in the field" Watchers are probably a lot like Giles when Buffy first met him in "Welcome to the Hellmouth," they generally stay in one remote area with their books waiting for something of interest to happen. > > Quentin Travers was talking about calling (back?) all "remaining > operatives". Are these operatives slayers, or slayers-in-training? If > they are only slayers-in-training, how does this relate to a new > slayer being "called" only after the last slayer dies? There should > only be one at a time, right? (Faith and Kendra excluded). Also, Buffy There is only one slayer at a time. Faith and Kendra were exceptions. Kendra was triggered when Buffy drowned and was revived by Xander. Faith was triggered when Kendra died. There may or may not be a third slayer out there. It all depends on whether or not one was triggered by Buffy's death in "The Gift." Theory One is that with Buffy having already died once, the slayer line now runs through Faith and Buffy's death in "The Gift" and any subsequent deaths by Buffy would trigger nothing. Theory Two is that there was a slayer triggered by Buffy's death in "The Gift" but we simply haven't seen her yet. Although several ME producers have weighed in on the side of Theory One and the story so far in season seven seems to imply that Theory One is true, we have no way of knowing which theory is true from what has been presented on TV. > seemed to be completely unaware of her future job when she was called, > so how does this relate to the slayers-in-training, who seem to be > well aware of their (future) duty? Buffy slipped through the cracks somehow. Most future slayers are identified at an early age. > Also, the Watcher's Counsil seems to have quite a few Watchers (Wesley > being sent right after Giles failed the test, Giles being frustrated > because he's not / never invited to this "Watcher's party" back in > England). What are all these Watchers for? If there is only one Slayer > at a time, maybe there is only one Watcher "in the field" while the > rest are "deskjob Watchers"? ;-) > Actually, there are probably plenty of Watchers "in the field" waiting and hoping that the current slayer's Watcher drops dead so they can take over the way Giles did when Buffy's first Watcher was killed. The desk bound Watchers probably do a lot of research like the woman in "Family" who was anxious to meet Spike because she had done so much research on his career. So Watchers would probably be organized thusly: Council _________________||____________________ || || || || Researchers || || || || || || Special Ops || Slayer's Watcher || Field Operatives || || || || Trainee Watchers || Slayer Slayers in Training Researchers and Trainee Watchers would probably be the most likely to be invited to the Watcher retreat. Giles would have been a Field Operative before Buffy came to Sunnydale. Field Operatives with connections probably eventually work their way up to being Researchers while the most respected FO's are entrusted with Slayer's in Training. FO's who rock the boat are probably forgotten unless they get lucky enough to hook up with a Slayer or a promising SiT. Trainee Watchers probably go where they are sent, if they're lucky they get a Slayer (like Wesley) or SiT. If not, they become FO's and are ignored. Special Ops are probably small teams like the one that tried to kill Buffy and Faith in "This Year's Girl" and Angel's "Sanctuary" episode. Their exact role with the Watchers is unclear but it seems pretty clear that brawn is more important than brains in their job. -- "Welcome to the Hellmouth, where even outerwear isn't safe. -- Xander Harris Roberto Castillo castillo@enteract.com http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2002-12-26 23:48:03+01:00 - Someone, please draw me an organization diagram! - (Michel Schudel <schudel@dds.nl>)


I was wondering, has anyone figured out yet how the counsil, slayers and "operatives" are related? Quentin Travers was talking about calling (back?) all "remaining operatives". Are these operatives slayers, or slayers-in-training? If they are only slayers-in-training, how does this relate to a new slayer being "called" only after the last slayer dies? There should only be one at a time, right? (Faith and Kendra excluded). Also, Buffy seemed to be completely unaware of her future job when she was called, so how does this relate to the slayers-in-training, who seem to be well aware of their (future) duty? Also, the Watcher's Counsil seems to have quite a few Watchers (Wesley being sent right after Giles failed the test, Giles being frustrated because he's not / never invited to this "Watcher's party" back in England). What are all these Watchers for? If there is only one Slayer at a time, maybe there is only one Watcher "in the field" while the rest are "deskjob Watchers"? ;-) Argh! Michel Schudel

2002-12-26 23:48:03+01:00 - Someone, please draw me an organization diagram! - (Michel Schudel <schudel@dds.nl>)


I was wondering, has anyone figured out yet how the counsil, slayers and "operatives" are related? Quentin Travers was talking about calling (back?) all "remaining operatives". Are these operatives slayers, or slayers-in-training? If they are only slayers-in-training, how does this relate to a new slayer being "called" only after the last slayer dies? There should only be one at a time, right? (Faith and Kendra excluded). Also, Buffy seemed to be completely unaware of her future job when she was called, so how does this relate to the slayers-in-training, who seem to be well aware of their (future) duty? Also, the Watcher's Counsil seems to have quite a few Watchers (Wesley being sent right after Giles failed the test, Giles being frustrated because he's not / never invited to this "Watcher's party" back in England). What are all these Watchers for? If there is only one Slayer at a time, maybe there is only one Watcher "in the field" while the rest are "deskjob Watchers"? ;-) Argh! Michel Schudel

2002-12-27 02:38:11+00:00 - Re: Someone, please draw me an organization diagram! - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 23:48:03 +0100, Michel Schudel <schudel@dds.nl> wrote: >I was wondering, has anyone figured out yet how the counsil, slayers >and "operatives" are related? > >Quentin Travers was talking about calling (back?) all "remaining >operatives". Are these operatives slayers, or slayers-in-training? No. Giles is an operative. So were the goon squad they sent out to apprehend or kill Faith. >Also, the Watcher's Counsil seems to have quite a few Watchers (Wesley >being sent right after Giles failed the test, Giles being frustrated >because he's not / never invited to this "Watcher's party" back in >England). What are all these Watchers for? To keep track of supernatural activity. They really are Watchers, not Slayer Trainers who call themselves Watchers.

2002-12-27 02:38:11+00:00 - Re: Someone, please draw me an organization diagram! - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 23:48:03 +0100, Michel Schudel <schudel@dds.nl> wrote: >I was wondering, has anyone figured out yet how the counsil, slayers >and "operatives" are related? > >Quentin Travers was talking about calling (back?) all "remaining >operatives". Are these operatives slayers, or slayers-in-training? No. Giles is an operative. So were the goon squad they sent out to apprehend or kill Faith. >Also, the Watcher's Counsil seems to have quite a few Watchers (Wesley >being sent right after Giles failed the test, Giles being frustrated >because he's not / never invited to this "Watcher's party" back in >England). What are all these Watchers for? To keep track of supernatural activity. They really are Watchers, not Slayer Trainers who call themselves Watchers.

2002-12-27 13:41:11-08:00 - Re: Someone, please draw me an organization diagram! - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


Michel Schudel <schudel@dds.nl> wrote in message news:<7s0n0voieb1932rug3riv8hbsl55gl35ei@4ax.com>... > I was wondering, has anyone figured out yet how the counsil, slayers > and "operatives" are related? > > Quentin Travers was talking about calling (back?) all "remaining > operatives". Are these operatives slayers, There are only two Slayers- Faith and Buffy. > or slayers-in-training? There are only two Slayers and neither of them are doing much training. The girls that the CoW are training are potential Slayers and they won't necessarily become Slayers. > If > they are only slayers-in-training, how does this relate to a new > slayer being "called" only after the last slayer dies? There should > only be one at a time, right? (Faith and Kendra excluded). There is usually only one at a time. Kendra came along after Buffy "died" in Prophecy Girl and then Kendra died and we saw Faith. The potential Slayers are just waiting until the day they are called after a Slayer dies. But that day may never come. > Also, Buffy > seemed to be completely unaware of her future job when she was called, > so how does this relate to the slayers-in-training, who seem to be > well aware of their (future) duty? It just shows that the CoW does not know everything and that they are fallible.(And, in some cases, just plain stupid) > Also, the Watcher's Counsil seems to have quite a few Watchers All of the members of the CoW are Watchers. There is probably a small group(like a Board of Directors) of them- including Travers- that actually oversee the organization. The rest would have specific duties pertaining to the day-to-day operation or they would be training new Watchers. > (Wesley > being sent right after Giles failed the test, Giles being frustrated > because he's not / never invited to this "Watcher's party" back in > England). What are all these Watchers for? If there is only one Slayer > at a time, maybe there is only one Watcher "in the field" while the > rest are "deskjob Watchers"? ;-) There are the Watchers at the headquarters in London that run the organization and train other Watchers and then there are the field Watchers that train potential Slayers and the Slayer. These are the only operatives I think Travers was referring to. The CoW also employs some people- like the fellows who came to Sunnydale to get Baith(Buffy as Faith in This Year's Girl/Who Are You?)- to do the dirty work. But they are probably contracted out(mercenary types) and not actually part of the CoW. As for any detailed organizational layout, I'm afraid we really haven't seen enough onscreen to do it justice. Smaug69

2002-12-27 13:41:11-08:00 - Re: Someone, please draw me an organization diagram! - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


Michel Schudel <schudel@dds.nl> wrote in message news:<7s0n0voieb1932rug3riv8hbsl55gl35ei@4ax.com>... > I was wondering, has anyone figured out yet how the counsil, slayers > and "operatives" are related? > > Quentin Travers was talking about calling (back?) all "remaining > operatives". Are these operatives slayers, There are only two Slayers- Faith and Buffy. > or slayers-in-training? There are only two Slayers and neither of them are doing much training. The girls that the CoW are training are potential Slayers and they won't necessarily become Slayers. > If > they are only slayers-in-training, how does this relate to a new > slayer being "called" only after the last slayer dies? There should > only be one at a time, right? (Faith and Kendra excluded). There is usually only one at a time. Kendra came along after Buffy "died" in Prophecy Girl and then Kendra died and we saw Faith. The potential Slayers are just waiting until the day they are called after a Slayer dies. But that day may never come. > Also, Buffy > seemed to be completely unaware of her future job when she was called, > so how does this relate to the slayers-in-training, who seem to be > well aware of their (future) duty? It just shows that the CoW does not know everything and that they are fallible.(And, in some cases, just plain stupid) > Also, the Watcher's Counsil seems to have quite a few Watchers All of the members of the CoW are Watchers. There is probably a small group(like a Board of Directors) of them- including Travers- that actually oversee the organization. The rest would have specific duties pertaining to the day-to-day operation or they would be training new Watchers. > (Wesley > being sent right after Giles failed the test, Giles being frustrated > because he's not / never invited to this "Watcher's party" back in > England). What are all these Watchers for? If there is only one Slayer > at a time, maybe there is only one Watcher "in the field" while the > rest are "deskjob Watchers"? ;-) There are the Watchers at the headquarters in London that run the organization and train other Watchers and then there are the field Watchers that train potential Slayers and the Slayer. These are the only operatives I think Travers was referring to. The CoW also employs some people- like the fellows who came to Sunnydale to get Baith(Buffy as Faith in This Year's Girl/Who Are You?)- to do the dirty work. But they are probably contracted out(mercenary types) and not actually part of the CoW. As for any detailed organizational layout, I'm afraid we really haven't seen enough onscreen to do it justice. Smaug69