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2003-05-19 23:23:13-05:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <20030520002027.15424.00000294@mb-m06.aol.com>, kestrttn@aol.comlala (Katie) wrote: > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > Ok...from about half an hour into the show I was bawling, uncontrollably, > snot > running down my face. I LOVED the finale. I thought it was a fantastic way > to > end it..it leaves us with spin off possibilities, and our own imagination. > It > gave Buffy what she's wanted for 7 years...the fate of the world is no longer > on her shoulders (or at least, not ONLY on her shoulders) I'm so glad Andrew > lived, but sad about Anya. I loved the funny for the first half of the show. > Angel was funny, Spike beating up a poorly drawn cartoon version of him, > Dungeons and Dragons..definately brought back happy memories of the first few > seasons. I was happy for Willow..she found her fantastic power. I liked the > scene of all the potentials getting their power..definately brought out the > 'girl power' premise of the show. You mean Buffy raping these girls with the power and responsibilty she's railed against for the last two seasons? Buffy became just as bad as the Shadowmen....

2003-05-19 23:23:13-05:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <20030520002027.15424.00000294@mb-m06.aol.com>, kestrttn@aol.comlala (Katie) wrote: > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > .. > Ok...from about half an hour into the show I was bawling, uncontrollably, > snot > running down my face. I LOVED the finale. I thought it was a fantastic way > to > end it..it leaves us with spin off possibilities, and our own imagination. > It > gave Buffy what she's wanted for 7 years...the fate of the world is no longer > on her shoulders (or at least, not ONLY on her shoulders) I'm so glad Andrew > lived, but sad about Anya. I loved the funny for the first half of the show. > Angel was funny, Spike beating up a poorly drawn cartoon version of him, > Dungeons and Dragons..definately brought back happy memories of the first few > seasons. I was happy for Willow..she found her fantastic power. I liked the > scene of all the potentials getting their power..definately brought out the > 'girl power' premise of the show. You mean Buffy raping these girls with the power and responsibilty she's railed against for the last two seasons? Buffy became just as bad as the Shadowmen....

2003-05-20 04:20:27+00:00 - HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (kestrttn@aol.comlala)


.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Ok...from about half an hour into the show I was bawling, uncontrollably, snot running down my face. I LOVED the finale. I thought it was a fantastic way to end it..it leaves us with spin off possibilities, and our own imagination. It gave Buffy what she's wanted for 7 years...the fate of the world is no longer on her shoulders (or at least, not ONLY on her shoulders) I'm so glad Andrew lived, but sad about Anya. I loved the funny for the first half of the show. Angel was funny, Spike beating up a poorly drawn cartoon version of him, Dungeons and Dragons..definately brought back happy memories of the first few seasons. I was happy for Willow..she found her fantastic power. I liked the scene of all the potentials getting their power..definately brought out the 'girl power' premise of the show. Spike was a champion, and thank god I know he's going to Angel, otherwise I'd STILL be crying. And I loved the final scene..the gang together again. Seems to me that the core Scooby Gang can sort of become the new Watcher's Council...they can find the slayers and train them and help them fight. I know that was pretty unintelligable...but I'm excited and sad and moved and happy all at once. Let's just finish this babble off with, I LOVE BUFFY!!!!!!!!! Katie

2003-05-20 04:20:27+00:00 - HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (kestrttn@aol.comlala)


.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Ok...from about half an hour into the show I was bawling, uncontrollably, snot running down my face. I LOVED the finale. I thought it was a fantastic way to end it..it leaves us with spin off possibilities, and our own imagination. It gave Buffy what she's wanted for 7 years...the fate of the world is no longer on her shoulders (or at least, not ONLY on her shoulders) I'm so glad Andrew lived, but sad about Anya. I loved the funny for the first half of the show. Angel was funny, Spike beating up a poorly drawn cartoon version of him, Dungeons and Dragons..definately brought back happy memories of the first few seasons. I was happy for Willow..she found her fantastic power. I liked the scene of all the potentials getting their power..definately brought out the 'girl power' premise of the show. Spike was a champion, and thank god I know he's going to Angel, otherwise I'd STILL be crying. And I loved the final scene..the gang together again. Seems to me that the core Scooby Gang can sort of become the new Watcher's Council...they can find the slayers and train them and help them fight. I know that was pretty unintelligable...but I'm excited and sad and moved and happy all at once. Let's just finish this babble off with, I LOVE BUFFY!!!!!!!!! Katie

2003-05-20 08:58:39-03:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Deanie <deaniebee@hotmail.com>)


Well she's given them the power and now they have the choice to use it. I think that's what the "choice" speech was all about.. There are so many girls with the power now that if the girls would rather live a normal life I assume they have that choice.. Maybe I'm wrong.. Dean "Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:postmaster-38FF24.23231319052003@husk.cso.niu.edu... > In article <20030520002027.15424.00000294@mb-m06.aol.com>, > kestrttn@aol.comlala (Katie) wrote: > > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > Ok...from about half an hour into the show I was bawling, uncontrollably, > > snot > > running down my face. I LOVED the finale. I thought it was a fantastic way > > to > > end it..it leaves us with spin off possibilities, and our own imagination. > > It > > gave Buffy what she's wanted for 7 years...the fate of the world is no longer > > on her shoulders (or at least, not ONLY on her shoulders) I'm so glad Andrew > > lived, but sad about Anya. I loved the funny for the first half of the show. > > Angel was funny, Spike beating up a poorly drawn cartoon version of him, > > Dungeons and Dragons..definately brought back happy memories of the first few > > seasons. I was happy for Willow..she found her fantastic power. I liked the > > scene of all the potentials getting their power..definately brought out the > > 'girl power' premise of the show. > > You mean Buffy raping these girls with the power and responsibilty she's > railed against for the last two seasons? Buffy became just as bad as the > Shadowmen....

2003-05-20 08:58:39-03:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Deanie <deaniebee@hotmail.com>)


Well she's given them the power and now they have the choice to use it. I think that's what the "choice" speech was all about.. There are so many girls with the power now that if the girls would rather live a normal life I assume they have that choice.. Maybe I'm wrong.. Dean "Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:postmaster-38FF24.23231319052003@husk.cso.niu.edu... > In article <20030520002027.15424.00000294@mb-m06.aol.com>, > kestrttn@aol.comlala (Katie) wrote: > > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > Ok...from about half an hour into the show I was bawling, uncontrollably, > > snot > > running down my face. I LOVED the finale. I thought it was a fantastic way > > to > > end it..it leaves us with spin off possibilities, and our own imagination. > > It > > gave Buffy what she's wanted for 7 years...the fate of the world is no longer > > on her shoulders (or at least, not ONLY on her shoulders) I'm so glad Andrew > > lived, but sad about Anya. I loved the funny for the first half of the show. > > Angel was funny, Spike beating up a poorly drawn cartoon version of him, > > Dungeons and Dragons..definately brought back happy memories of the first few > > seasons. I was happy for Willow..she found her fantastic power. I liked the > > scene of all the potentials getting their power..definately brought out the > > 'girl power' premise of the show. > > You mean Buffy raping these girls with the power and responsibilty she's > railed against for the last two seasons? Buffy became just as bad as the > Shadowmen....

2003-05-20 19:34:51-04:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (TomTraubertsBlues <silentsaregolden@comcast.net>)


"Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:postmaster-38FF24.23231319052003@husk.cso.niu.edu... > In article <20030520002027.15424.00000294@mb-m06.aol.com>, > kestrttn@aol.comlala (Katie) wrote: > > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > Ok...from about half an hour into the show I was bawling, uncontrollably, > > snot > > running down my face. I LOVED the finale. I thought it was a fantastic way > > to > > end it..it leaves us with spin off possibilities, and our own imagination. > > It > > gave Buffy what she's wanted for 7 years...the fate of the world is no longer > > on her shoulders (or at least, not ONLY on her shoulders) I'm so glad Andrew > > lived, but sad about Anya. I loved the funny for the first half of the show. > > Angel was funny, Spike beating up a poorly drawn cartoon version of him, > > Dungeons and Dragons..definately brought back happy memories of the first few > > seasons. I was happy for Willow..she found her fantastic power. I liked the > > scene of all the potentials getting their power..definately brought out the > > 'girl power' premise of the show. > > You mean Buffy raping these girls with the power and responsibilty she's > railed against for the last two seasons? Buffy became just as bad as the > Shadowmen.... Assuming you are serious (although I find it unbelievable that so many people find the tiniest gnat at which to strain), did you not pay attention. She told them it was their CHOICE. Thank God I haven't had my joy for the show quenched by such posts. Mike

2003-05-20 19:34:51-04:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (TomTraubertsBlues <silentsaregolden@comcast.net>)


"Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:postmaster-38FF24.23231319052003@husk.cso.niu.edu... > In article <20030520002027.15424.00000294@mb-m06.aol.com>, > kestrttn@aol.comlala (Katie) wrote: > > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > .. > > Ok...from about half an hour into the show I was bawling, uncontrollably, > > snot > > running down my face. I LOVED the finale. I thought it was a fantastic way > > to > > end it..it leaves us with spin off possibilities, and our own imagination. > > It > > gave Buffy what she's wanted for 7 years...the fate of the world is no longer > > on her shoulders (or at least, not ONLY on her shoulders) I'm so glad Andrew > > lived, but sad about Anya. I loved the funny for the first half of the show. > > Angel was funny, Spike beating up a poorly drawn cartoon version of him, > > Dungeons and Dragons..definately brought back happy memories of the first few > > seasons. I was happy for Willow..she found her fantastic power. I liked the > > scene of all the potentials getting their power..definately brought out the > > 'girl power' premise of the show. > > You mean Buffy raping these girls with the power and responsibilty she's > railed against for the last two seasons? Buffy became just as bad as the > Shadowmen.... Assuming you are serious (although I find it unbelievable that so many people find the tiniest gnat at which to strain), did you not pay attention. She told them it was their CHOICE. Thank God I haven't had my joy for the show quenched by such posts. Mike

2003-05-20 23:49:23-05:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: CC Zona <cczona@nospam.invalid> wrote in <cczona-1B6FFA.19245520052003@netnews.attbi.com>: > Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice, but she also says that > every girl in the world who is a potential will also share in her power. > We even see a bunch of them. So Buffy and her litle army of SiTs chose, > together with Willow, to impose Slayer powers on a bunch of other > girls/women as well. The show presents it as an empowering action in > contrast to what was done by the Shadowmen, but where is the moral > distinction? Because this time it's a group of women, instead of men, > choosing to impose this demon-based power on other women it's morally > superior? This time instead of one girl in all the world, the power is being given to many girls all over the world. The world is not in jeopardy if one girl doesn't do her duty every night. The girl playing on Little League team can now choose to use her new powers to battle evil or she can use them to become the first woman to play in Major League Baseball. The girl in high school can choose to fight vampires or she can choose to go to the high school dance or maybe she won't have to choose at all because there are a couple of girls who are already slaying vampires in her town. The girl in the trailer park probably doesn't know the first thing about vampires or demons but she can now defend herself against her abusive father. The Japanese girl will not be torn from the arms of her loving family by a strange man with a British accent anymore, she can choose to use her new powers or choose to ignore them and stay with her family. -- I think the fans will always find ways to torture themselves with or without our help. -- David Fury Roberto Castillo robertocastillo@ameritech.net http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-05-20 23:49:23-05:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: CC Zona <cczona@nospam.invalid> wrote in <cczona-1B6FFA.19245520052003@netnews.attbi.com>: > Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice, but she also says that > every girl in the world who is a potential will also share in her power. > We even see a bunch of them. So Buffy and her litle army of SiTs chose, > together with Willow, to impose Slayer powers on a bunch of other > girls/women as well. The show presents it as an empowering action in > contrast to what was done by the Shadowmen, but where is the moral > distinction? Because this time it's a group of women, instead of men, > choosing to impose this demon-based power on other women it's morally > superior? This time instead of one girl in all the world, the power is being given to many girls all over the world. The world is not in jeopardy if one girl doesn't do her duty every night. The girl playing on Little League team can now choose to use her new powers to battle evil or she can use them to become the first woman to play in Major League Baseball. The girl in high school can choose to fight vampires or she can choose to go to the high school dance or maybe she won't have to choose at all because there are a couple of girls who are already slaying vampires in her town. The girl in the trailer park probably doesn't know the first thing about vampires or demons but she can now defend herself against her abusive father. The Japanese girl will not be torn from the arms of her loving family by a strange man with a British accent anymore, she can choose to use her new powers or choose to ignore them and stay with her family. -- I think the fans will always find ways to torture themselves with or without our help. -- David Fury Roberto Castillo robertocastillo@ameritech.net http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-05-21 00:15:30-05:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <2s0mcvctn70avtrp7oi7b1agfeqrb5gr4e@4ax.com>, Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net> wrote: > It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs > and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: CC > Zona <cczona@nospam.invalid> wrote in > <cczona-1B6FFA.19245520052003@netnews.attbi.com>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice, but she also says that > > every girl in the world who is a potential will also share in her power. > > We even see a bunch of them. So Buffy and her litle army of SiTs chose, > > together with Willow, to impose Slayer powers on a bunch of other > > girls/women as well. The show presents it as an empowering action in > > contrast to what was done by the Shadowmen, but where is the moral > > distinction? Because this time it's a group of women, instead of men, > > choosing to impose this demon-based power on other women it's morally > > superior? > > This time instead of one girl in all the world, the power is being > given to many girls all over the world. The world is not in jeopardy > if one girl doesn't do her duty every night. The girl playing on > Little League team can now choose to use her new powers to battle evil > or she can use them to become the first woman to play in Major League > Baseball. The girl in high school can choose to fight vampires or she > can choose to go to the high school dance or maybe she won't have to > choose at all because there are a couple of girls who are already > slaying vampires in her town. The girl in the trailer park probably > doesn't know the first thing about vampires or demons but she can now > defend herself against her abusive father. The Japanese girl will not > be torn from the arms of her loving family by a strange man with a > British accent anymore, she can choose to use her new powers or choose > to ignore them and stay with her family. When the Shadowmen forced Slayerhood onto the First Slayer it was a violation of her free will. It was a metaphysical rape, hence the chains, and Buffy has always felt burdened by that.... that she never got a choice in being the Slayer. But now that Buffy has become like the Shadowmen, by forcing Slayerhood on all of those innocent girls... she's regained her power. And that's what this season has all been about, whose got the power. Joss always plays with metaphors on Buffy and this one current be simpler..... the abused becomes the abuser.

2003-05-21 00:15:30-05:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <2s0mcvctn70avtrp7oi7b1agfeqrb5gr4e@4ax.com>, Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net> wrote: > It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs > and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: CC > Zona <cczona@nospam.invalid> wrote in > <cczona-1B6FFA.19245520052003@netnews.attbi.com>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice, but she also says that > > every girl in the world who is a potential will also share in her power. > > We even see a bunch of them. So Buffy and her litle army of SiTs chose, > > together with Willow, to impose Slayer powers on a bunch of other > > girls/women as well. The show presents it as an empowering action in > > contrast to what was done by the Shadowmen, but where is the moral > > distinction? Because this time it's a group of women, instead of men, > > choosing to impose this demon-based power on other women it's morally > > superior? > > This time instead of one girl in all the world, the power is being > given to many girls all over the world. The world is not in jeopardy > if one girl doesn't do her duty every night. The girl playing on > Little League team can now choose to use her new powers to battle evil > or she can use them to become the first woman to play in Major League > Baseball. The girl in high school can choose to fight vampires or she > can choose to go to the high school dance or maybe she won't have to > choose at all because there are a couple of girls who are already > slaying vampires in her town. The girl in the trailer park probably > doesn't know the first thing about vampires or demons but she can now > defend herself against her abusive father. The Japanese girl will not > be torn from the arms of her loving family by a strange man with a > British accent anymore, she can choose to use her new powers or choose > to ignore them and stay with her family. When the Shadowmen forced Slayerhood onto the First Slayer it was a violation of her free will. It was a metaphysical rape, hence the chains, and Buffy has always felt burdened by that.... that she never got a choice in being the Slayer. But now that Buffy has become like the Shadowmen, by forcing Slayerhood on all of those innocent girls... she's regained her power. And that's what this season has all been about, whose got the power. Joss always plays with metaphors on Buffy and this one current be simpler..... the abused becomes the abuser.

2003-05-21 02:24:55+00:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (CC Zona <cczona@nospam.invalid>)


In article <fM-dnaqz4KtkJlejXTWcqQ@comcast.com>, "TomTraubertsBlues" <silentsaregolden@comcast.net> wrote: > "Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message > news:postmaster-38FF24.23231319052003@husk.cso.niu.edu... > > In article <20030520002027.15424.00000294@mb-m06.aol.com>, > > kestrttn@aol.comlala (Katie) wrote: > > > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > Ok...from about half an hour into the show I was bawling, > uncontrollably, > > > snot > > > running down my face. I LOVED the finale. I thought it was a fantastic > way > > > to > > > end it..it leaves us with spin off possibilities, and our own > imagination. > > > It > > > gave Buffy what she's wanted for 7 years...the fate of the world is no > longer > > > on her shoulders (or at least, not ONLY on her shoulders) I'm so glad > Andrew > > > lived, but sad about Anya. I loved the funny for the first half of the > show. > > > Angel was funny, Spike beating up a poorly drawn cartoon version of him, > > > Dungeons and Dragons..definately brought back happy memories of the > first few > > > seasons. I was happy for Willow..she found her fantastic power. I > liked the > > > scene of all the potentials getting their power..definately brought out > the > > > 'girl power' premise of the show. > > > > You mean Buffy raping these girls with the power and responsibilty she's > > railed against for the last two seasons? Buffy became just as bad as the > > Shadowmen.... > > Assuming you are serious (although I find it unbelievable that so many > people find the tiniest gnat at which to strain), did you not pay attention. > She told them it was their CHOICE. Thank God I haven't had my joy for the > show quenched by such posts. Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice, but she also says that every girl in the world who is a potential will also share in her power. We even see a bunch of them. So Buffy and her litle army of SiTs chose, together with Willow, to impose Slayer powers on a bunch of other girls/women as well. The show presents it as an empowering action in contrast to what was done by the Shadowmen, but where is the moral distinction? Because this time it's a group of women, instead of men, choosing to impose this demon-based power on other women it's morally superior? -- CC "Has Cordy been a bad, bad girl?" -Lorne "All I'm saying is soulles Spike would have had me upside down and halfway to happyland by now!" - Anya Dawn: "I feel safe with you..." Spike: "TAKE THAT BACK!"

2003-05-21 02:24:55+00:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (CC Zona <cczona@nospam.invalid>)


In article <fM-dnaqz4KtkJlejXTWcqQ@comcast.com>, "TomTraubertsBlues" <silentsaregolden@comcast.net> wrote: > "Snuggles" <postmaster@spamcop.net> wrote in message > news:postmaster-38FF24.23231319052003@husk.cso.niu.edu... > > In article <20030520002027.15424.00000294@mb-m06.aol.com>, > > kestrttn@aol.comlala (Katie) wrote: > > > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > .. > > > Ok...from about half an hour into the show I was bawling, > uncontrollably, > > > snot > > > running down my face. I LOVED the finale. I thought it was a fantastic > way > > > to > > > end it..it leaves us with spin off possibilities, and our own > imagination. > > > It > > > gave Buffy what she's wanted for 7 years...the fate of the world is no > longer > > > on her shoulders (or at least, not ONLY on her shoulders) I'm so glad > Andrew > > > lived, but sad about Anya. I loved the funny for the first half of the > show. > > > Angel was funny, Spike beating up a poorly drawn cartoon version of him, > > > Dungeons and Dragons..definately brought back happy memories of the > first few > > > seasons. I was happy for Willow..she found her fantastic power. I > liked the > > > scene of all the potentials getting their power..definately brought out > the > > > 'girl power' premise of the show. > > > > You mean Buffy raping these girls with the power and responsibilty she's > > railed against for the last two seasons? Buffy became just as bad as the > > Shadowmen.... > > Assuming you are serious (although I find it unbelievable that so many > people find the tiniest gnat at which to strain), did you not pay attention. > She told them it was their CHOICE. Thank God I haven't had my joy for the > show quenched by such posts. Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice, but she also says that every girl in the world who is a potential will also share in her power. We even see a bunch of them. So Buffy and her litle army of SiTs chose, together with Willow, to impose Slayer powers on a bunch of other girls/women as well. The show presents it as an empowering action in contrast to what was done by the Shadowmen, but where is the moral distinction? Because this time it's a group of women, instead of men, choosing to impose this demon-based power on other women it's morally superior? -- CC "Has Cordy been a bad, bad girl?" -Lorne "All I'm saying is soulles Spike would have had me upside down and halfway to happyland by now!" - Anya Dawn: "I feel safe with you..." Spike: "TAKE THAT BACK!"

2003-05-21 20:31:33-04:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <20030521201002.07807.00000118@mb-m29.aol.com>, ANIM8Rfsk <anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote: > << From: CC Zona cczona@nospam.invalid >> > > > << Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice >> > > Except they don't. How could any of them have opted out? It's tough to get a count, but my impression was that there were a lot more girls crowded into Buffy's living room than went into the school. They may not have had a choice about whether or not they were getting the Slayer power, but they had a choice about what they were going to do with it. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-21 20:31:33-04:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <20030521201002.07807.00000118@mb-m29.aol.com>, ANIM8Rfsk <anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote: > << From: CC Zona cczona@nospam.invalid >> > > > << Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice >> > > Except they don't. How could any of them have opted out? It's tough to get a count, but my impression was that there were a lot more girls crowded into Buffy's living room than went into the school. They may not have had a choice about whether or not they were getting the Slayer power, but they had a choice about what they were going to do with it. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-22 00:10:02+00:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM)


<< From: CC Zona cczona@nospam.invalid >> << Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice >> Except they don't. How could any of them have opted out? ___________ Don't just put QWest out of business - put the people in charge in jail. Now.

2003-05-22 00:10:02+00:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM)


<< From: CC Zona cczona@nospam.invalid >> << Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice >> Except they don't. How could any of them have opted out? ___________ Don't just put QWest out of business - put the people in charge in jail. Now.

2003-05-22 00:31:44+00:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (CC Zona <cczona@nospam.invalid>)


In article <20030521201002.07807.00000118@mb-m29.aol.com>, anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM (ANIM8Rfsk) wrote: > << From: CC Zona cczona@nospam.invalid >> > > > << Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice >> > > Except they don't. How could any of them have opted out? Willow was the one making up this spell. Do you believe she didn't have the capability to exclude a specific SiT from its effects? Or that she'd allow Buffy to lie to the group about something so important? Or that people like Giles and Xander would stand there letting that claim go unchallenged if either doubted for a second that Willow would honor any SiTs request to choose to remain unaltered? For seven years, they've all seen firsthand what a toll the Slayer role has taken on Buffy's life and the lives of those around her; there's no way that all of them have sunk so low that they'd willfully impose Slayer powers on a girl against her expressly stated wishes. (Imposing them on girls without giving them the opportunity to give consent, however, is apparently just fine and dandy. Go figure.) -- CC "Has Cordy been a bad, bad girl?" -Lorne "All I'm saying is soulles Spike would have had me upside down and halfway to happyland by now!" - Anya Dawn: "I feel safe with you..." Spike: "TAKE THAT BACK!"

2003-05-22 00:31:44+00:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (CC Zona <cczona@nospam.invalid>)


In article <20030521201002.07807.00000118@mb-m29.aol.com>, anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM (ANIM8Rfsk) wrote: > << From: CC Zona cczona@nospam.invalid >> > > > << Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice >> > > Except they don't. How could any of them have opted out? Willow was the one making up this spell. Do you believe she didn't have the capability to exclude a specific SiT from its effects? Or that she'd allow Buffy to lie to the group about something so important? Or that people like Giles and Xander would stand there letting that claim go unchallenged if either doubted for a second that Willow would honor any SiTs request to choose to remain unaltered? For seven years, they've all seen firsthand what a toll the Slayer role has taken on Buffy's life and the lives of those around her; there's no way that all of them have sunk so low that they'd willfully impose Slayer powers on a girl against her expressly stated wishes. (Imposing them on girls without giving them the opportunity to give consent, however, is apparently just fine and dandy. Go figure.) -- CC "Has Cordy been a bad, bad girl?" -Lorne "All I'm saying is soulles Spike would have had me upside down and halfway to happyland by now!" - Anya Dawn: "I feel safe with you..." Spike: "TAKE THAT BACK!"

2003-05-22 17:24:17-05:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in <210520032031336391%dsample@synapse.net>: > In article <20030521201002.07807.00000118@mb-m29.aol.com>, ANIM8Rfsk > <anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote: > > > << From: CC Zona cczona@nospam.invalid >> > > > > > > << Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice >> > > > > Except they don't. How could any of them have opted out? > > It's tough to get a count, but my impression was that there were a lot > more girls crowded into Buffy's living room than went into the school. > > They may not have had a choice about whether or not they were getting > the Slayer power, but they had a choice about what they were going to > do with it. It's interesting to note that a lot of the potentials all over the world who were getting called during Buffy's speech were quite young. The little girl playing baseball looked like she was ten years old to me. -- "Now, wait a minute. You think I'm evil if I bring a group of girls on a camping trip and *don't* touch them?" -- Rupert Giles Roberto Castillo robertocastillo@ameritech.net http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-05-22 17:24:17-05:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in <210520032031336391%dsample@synapse.net>: > In article <20030521201002.07807.00000118@mb-m29.aol.com>, ANIM8Rfsk > <anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote: > > > << From: CC Zona cczona@nospam.invalid >> > > > > > > << Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice >> > > > > Except they don't. How could any of them have opted out? > > It's tough to get a count, but my impression was that there were a lot > more girls crowded into Buffy's living room than went into the school. > > They may not have had a choice about whether or not they were getting > the Slayer power, but they had a choice about what they were going to > do with it. It's interesting to note that a lot of the potentials all over the world who were getting called during Buffy's speech were quite young. The little girl playing baseball looked like she was ten years old to me. -- "Now, wait a minute. You think I'm evil if I bring a group of girls on a camping trip and *don't* touch them?" -- Rupert Giles Roberto Castillo robertocastillo@ameritech.net http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-05-22 19:48:34-04:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <7liqcvg6vmk2s60bpfnn5ou88qvc1uhdbt@4ax.com>, Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net> wrote: > It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs > and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: Don > Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in > <210520032031336391%dsample@synapse.net>: > > > In article <20030521201002.07807.00000118@mb-m29.aol.com>, ANIM8Rfsk > > <anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote: > > > > > << From: CC Zona cczona@nospam.invalid >> > > > > > > > > > << Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice >> > > > > > > Except they don't. How could any of them have opted out? > > > > It's tough to get a count, but my impression was that there were a lot > > more girls crowded into Buffy's living room than went into the school. > > > > They may not have had a choice about whether or not they were getting > > the Slayer power, but they had a choice about what they were going to > > do with it. > > It's interesting to note that a lot of the potentials all over the > world who were getting called during Buffy's speech were quite young. > The little girl playing baseball looked like she was ten years old to > me. The script said twelve for her. It may be that the power comes with puberty. (Really wouldn't want any super strong toddlers running around out there. Not every parent can be as perfect as Ma and Pa Kent.) -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-22 19:48:34-04:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <7liqcvg6vmk2s60bpfnn5ou88qvc1uhdbt@4ax.com>, Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net> wrote: > It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs > and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: Don > Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in > <210520032031336391%dsample@synapse.net>: > > > In article <20030521201002.07807.00000118@mb-m29.aol.com>, ANIM8Rfsk > > <anim8rfsk@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote: > > > > > << From: CC Zona cczona@nospam.invalid >> > > > > > > > > > << Buffy says that the girls in the room have a choice >> > > > > > > Except they don't. How could any of them have opted out? > > > > It's tough to get a count, but my impression was that there were a lot > > more girls crowded into Buffy's living room than went into the school. > > > > They may not have had a choice about whether or not they were getting > > the Slayer power, but they had a choice about what they were going to > > do with it. > > It's interesting to note that a lot of the potentials all over the > world who were getting called during Buffy's speech were quite young. > The little girl playing baseball looked like she was ten years old to > me. The script said twelve for her. It may be that the power comes with puberty. (Really wouldn't want any super strong toddlers running around out there. Not every parent can be as perfect as Ma and Pa Kent.) -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-23 00:29:01+00:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (stardreamer@mindspring.com)


In article <7liqcvg6vmk2s60bpfnn5ou88qvc1uhdbt@4ax.com>, DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net says... >It's interesting to note that a lot of the potentials all over the >world who were getting called during Buffy's speech were quite young. >The little girl playing baseball looked like she was ten years old to >me. That may be the answer to the question of "if the Bringers were out killing potentials, why were there so many left"? It would certainly make sense for the FE to concentrate on picking off older potentials who'd be more likely to be a serious threat if Called. It might have intended to get around to mopping up the younger ones later on. Celine -- Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat "Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring." -- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_

2003-05-23 00:29:01+00:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (stardreamer@mindspring.com)


In article <7liqcvg6vmk2s60bpfnn5ou88qvc1uhdbt@4ax.com>, DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net says... >It's interesting to note that a lot of the potentials all over the >world who were getting called during Buffy's speech were quite young. >The little girl playing baseball looked like she was ten years old to >me. That may be the answer to the question of "if the Bringers were out killing potentials, why were there so many left"? It would certainly make sense for the FE to concentrate on picking off older potentials who'd be more likely to be a serious threat if Called. It might have intended to get around to mopping up the younger ones later on. Celine -- Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat "Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring." -- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_

2003-05-23 00:58:54+00:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Mike Craney <mcraneyspambad@sbcglobal.net>)


"Lee S. Billings" <stardreamer@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:bajq0d$neo$5@slb0.atl.mindspring.net... > In article <7liqcvg6vmk2s60bpfnn5ou88qvc1uhdbt@4ax.com>, > DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net says... > > >It's interesting to note that a lot of the potentials all over the > >world who were getting called during Buffy's speech were quite young. > >The little girl playing baseball looked like she was ten years old to > >me. > > That may be the answer to the question of "if the Bringers were out killing > potentials, why were there so many left"? It would certainly make sense for the > FE to concentrate on picking off older potentials who'd be more likely to be a > serious threat if Called. It might have intended to get around to mopping up > the younger ones later on. Right. Although there are very young Potentials (including infants, obviously) it appears axiomatic that only girls in their teens are called. Therefore, the FE could concentrate on wiping out those in that age bracket, and when a younger girl was ultimately called (as there were no Potentials in their teens left) they would likely be as difficult to kill as a trained, older girl. My theory prior to the finale was that "being called" adhered to the child-maiden-crone (or something like that) cycle of the pagan wheel of life. IOW, the potential would not be defined until menses, obviously not called until after menses, and "Potentialhood" went away after menopause, although in reality girls don't seem to be called at all if older than 20. But, the little girl playing baseball shot that theory all to hell. Oh well........ Mike Mike

2003-05-23 00:58:54+00:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Mike Craney <mcraneyspambad@sbcglobal.net>)


"Lee S. Billings" <stardreamer@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:bajq0d$neo$5@slb0.atl.mindspring.net... > In article <7liqcvg6vmk2s60bpfnn5ou88qvc1uhdbt@4ax.com>, > DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net says... > > >It's interesting to note that a lot of the potentials all over the > >world who were getting called during Buffy's speech were quite young. > >The little girl playing baseball looked like she was ten years old to > >me. > > That may be the answer to the question of "if the Bringers were out killing > potentials, why were there so many left"? It would certainly make sense for the > FE to concentrate on picking off older potentials who'd be more likely to be a > serious threat if Called. It might have intended to get around to mopping up > the younger ones later on. Right. Although there are very young Potentials (including infants, obviously) it appears axiomatic that only girls in their teens are called. Therefore, the FE could concentrate on wiping out those in that age bracket, and when a younger girl was ultimately called (as there were no Potentials in their teens left) they would likely be as difficult to kill as a trained, older girl. My theory prior to the finale was that "being called" adhered to the child-maiden-crone (or something like that) cycle of the pagan wheel of life. IOW, the potential would not be defined until menses, obviously not called until after menses, and "Potentialhood" went away after menopause, although in reality girls don't seem to be called at all if older than 20. But, the little girl playing baseball shot that theory all to hell. Oh well........ Mike Mike

2003-05-23 01:56:04+00:00 - unknown Potentials - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


stardreamer@mindspring.com (Lee S. Billings) wrote in news:bajq0d$neo$5@slb0.atl.mindspring.net: > That may be the answer to the question of "if the Bringers were out > killing potentials, why were there so many left"? Simple - the Potentials we saw in other locations (baseball diamond, India, Japan, abused woman) were unknown Potentials which neither the CoW or First knew about. A concept in the movie which has been kept for the series is Buffy was a 'dark horse' slayer where nobody knew that she was a Potential ahead of time even though she was one. Kendra, Faith, and all of the Potentials we saw through Season 7 were detected through magic/science/whatever by the CoW. But as "Becoming" showed Buffy was discovered after she was chosen. There's a theory, probably Don Sample's that the spell/widget/whatever which the CoW uses to detect Potentials is only partially accurate. It will detect most Potentials but not all of them. Of course once a young woman becomes the Slayer it's far easier to track her down (just read the news reports of a woman who suddenly gets super-powers). Or alternately there's a separate spell/widget/whatever which determines when a new Slayer appears. This is inline with why the First doesn't just bomb the Summers household while everybody's inside and get rid of all of the Potentials, Buffy, and Faith at the same time. If the First did that then one of these unknown Potentials would become the next Slayer. For the First's plan to work it has to first destroy *all* of the Potentials and then Buffy and Faith. Philip Chien (who rarely counts on the "BtVS" movie for anything unless it's also supported within the series.)

2003-05-23 01:56:04+00:00 - unknown Potentials - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


stardreamer@mindspring.com (Lee S. Billings) wrote in news:bajq0d$neo$5@slb0.atl.mindspring.net: > That may be the answer to the question of "if the Bringers were out > killing potentials, why were there so many left"? Simple - the Potentials we saw in other locations (baseball diamond, India, Japan, abused woman) were unknown Potentials which neither the CoW or First knew about. A concept in the movie which has been kept for the series is Buffy was a 'dark horse' slayer where nobody knew that she was a Potential ahead of time even though she was one. Kendra, Faith, and all of the Potentials we saw through Season 7 were detected through magic/science/whatever by the CoW. But as "Becoming" showed Buffy was discovered after she was chosen. There's a theory, probably Don Sample's that the spell/widget/whatever which the CoW uses to detect Potentials is only partially accurate. It will detect most Potentials but not all of them. Of course once a young woman becomes the Slayer it's far easier to track her down (just read the news reports of a woman who suddenly gets super-powers). Or alternately there's a separate spell/widget/whatever which determines when a new Slayer appears. This is inline with why the First doesn't just bomb the Summers household while everybody's inside and get rid of all of the Potentials, Buffy, and Faith at the same time. If the First did that then one of these unknown Potentials would become the next Slayer. For the First's plan to work it has to first destroy *all* of the Potentials and then Buffy and Faith. Philip Chien (who rarely counts on the "BtVS" movie for anything unless it's also supported within the series.)

2003-05-23 03:16:58-05:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in <220520031948345540%dsample@synapse.net>: > In article <7liqcvg6vmk2s60bpfnn5ou88qvc1uhdbt@4ax.com>, Zombie Elvis > <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net> wrote: > > > It's interesting to note that a lot of the potentials all over the > > world who were getting called during Buffy's speech were quite young. > > The little girl playing baseball looked like she was ten years old to > > me. > > The script said twelve for her. It may be that the power comes with > puberty. (Really wouldn't want any super strong toddlers running > around out there. Not every parent can be as perfect as Ma and Pa > Kent.) And even Pa Kent seems awfully bitter at times -- the one on Smallville anyway. -- "Now, wait a minute. You think I'm evil if I bring a group of girls on a camping trip and *don't* touch them?" -- Rupert Giles Roberto Castillo robertocastillo@ameritech.net http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-05-23 03:16:58-05:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in <220520031948345540%dsample@synapse.net>: > In article <7liqcvg6vmk2s60bpfnn5ou88qvc1uhdbt@4ax.com>, Zombie Elvis > <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net> wrote: > > > It's interesting to note that a lot of the potentials all over the > > world who were getting called during Buffy's speech were quite young. > > The little girl playing baseball looked like she was ten years old to > > me. > > The script said twelve for her. It may be that the power comes with > puberty. (Really wouldn't want any super strong toddlers running > around out there. Not every parent can be as perfect as Ma and Pa > Kent.) And even Pa Kent seems awfully bitter at times -- the one on Smallville anyway. -- "Now, wait a minute. You think I'm evil if I bring a group of girls on a camping trip and *don't* touch them?" -- Rupert Giles Roberto Castillo robertocastillo@ameritech.net http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-05-23 03:20:59-05:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: "Mike Craney" <mcraneyspambad@sbcglobal.net> wrote in <ineza.2514$4G.841520@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>: > Right. Although there are very young Potentials (including infants, > obviously) it appears axiomatic that only girls in their teens are called. > Therefore, the FE could concentrate on wiping out those in that age bracket, > and when a younger girl was ultimately called (as there were no Potentials > in their teens left) they would likely be as difficult to kill as a trained, > older girl. > > My theory prior to the finale was that "being called" adhered to the > child-maiden-crone (or something like that) cycle of the pagan wheel of > life. IOW, the potential would not be defined until menses, obviously not > called until after menses, and "Potentialhood" went away after menopause, > although in reality girls don't seem to be called at all if older than 20. > > But, the little girl playing baseball shot that theory all to hell. Oh > well........ Don't give up dude. You know how competitive these Little League parents can get. Maybe they had her on growth hormones and they brought on early puberty. ;-) -- "Now, wait a minute. You think I'm evil if I bring a group of girls on a camping trip and *don't* touch them?" -- Rupert Giles Roberto Castillo robertocastillo@ameritech.net http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-05-23 03:20:59-05:00 - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-robertocastillo@ameritech.net>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: "Mike Craney" <mcraneyspambad@sbcglobal.net> wrote in <ineza.2514$4G.841520@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>: > Right. Although there are very young Potentials (including infants, > obviously) it appears axiomatic that only girls in their teens are called. > Therefore, the FE could concentrate on wiping out those in that age bracket, > and when a younger girl was ultimately called (as there were no Potentials > in their teens left) they would likely be as difficult to kill as a trained, > older girl. > > My theory prior to the finale was that "being called" adhered to the > child-maiden-crone (or something like that) cycle of the pagan wheel of > life. IOW, the potential would not be defined until menses, obviously not > called until after menses, and "Potentialhood" went away after menopause, > although in reality girls don't seem to be called at all if older than 20. > > But, the little girl playing baseball shot that theory all to hell. Oh > well........ Don't give up dude. You know how competitive these Little League parents can get. Maybe they had her on growth hormones and they brought on early puberty. ;-) -- "Now, wait a minute. You think I'm evil if I bring a group of girls on a camping trip and *don't* touch them?" -- Rupert Giles Roberto Castillo robertocastillo@ameritech.net http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-05-23 03:58:42+00:00 - Re: unknown Potentials - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (stardreamer@mindspring.com)


In article <Xns9383DF268AF7Cnobodynowherecom@127.0.0.1>, nobody@nowhere.com says... >There's a theory, probably Don Sample's that the spell/widget/whatever >which the CoW uses to detect Potentials is only partially accurate. It >will detect most Potentials but not all of them. Ah, like a mathematical formula to generate prime numbers. Yes, you can get some primes by using it -- but there will be many more that don't conform to the formula. Celine -- Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat "Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring." -- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_

2003-05-23 03:58:42+00:00 - Re: unknown Potentials - Re: HOLY CRAP (spoilers for Chosen) - (stardreamer@mindspring.com)


In article <Xns9383DF268AF7Cnobodynowherecom@127.0.0.1>, nobody@nowhere.com says... >There's a theory, probably Don Sample's that the spell/widget/whatever >which the CoW uses to detect Potentials is only partially accurate. It >will detect most Potentials but not all of them. Ah, like a mathematical formula to generate prime numbers. Yes, you can get some primes by using it -- but there will be many more that don't conform to the formula. Celine -- Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat "Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring." -- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_