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2003-05-21 08:59:43+00:00 - Now women can play college football - (Ar Q <ArthurQ283@hottmail.com>)


Thanks to Willow, now there are slayers everywhere. These women kick men's ass and most of them will go to play college football since all the evils are gone.

2003-05-21 08:59:43+00:00 - Now women can play college football - (Ar Q <ArthurQ283@hottmail.com>)


Thanks to Willow, now there are slayers everywhere. These women kick men's ass and most of them will go to play college football since all the evils are gone.

2003-05-21 17:55:43-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - ("Paul Hanlin, Jr." <paulhan@comcast.net>)


On Wed, 21 May 2003 08:59:43 GMT, "Ar Q" <ArthurQ283@hottmail.com> wrote: >Thanks to Willow, now there are slayers everywhere. These women kick men's >ass and most of them will go to play college football since all the evils >are gone. You do know, of course, that you are first in line for royalties from any future "Personally, I blame Willow" messages in RSFC, donut you? ;) Paul

2003-05-21 17:55:43-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - ("Paul Hanlin, Jr." <paulhan@comcast.net>)


On Wed, 21 May 2003 08:59:43 GMT, "Ar Q" <ArthurQ283@hottmail.com> wrote: >Thanks to Willow, now there are slayers everywhere. These women kick men's >ass and most of them will go to play college football since all the evils >are gone. You do know, of course, that you are first in line for royalties from any future "Personally, I blame Willow" messages in RSFC, donut you? ;) Paul

2003-05-21 20:06:13-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - ("David E. Milligan" <davideml@bellsouth.net>)


"Paul Hanlin, Jr." <paulhan@comcast.net> wrote in message news:octncv4nlntv3cjaqkflsepq8ifkre401u@4ax.com... > On Wed, 21 May 2003 08:59:43 GMT, "Ar Q" <ArthurQ283@hottmail.com> > wrote: > > >Thanks to Willow, now there are slayers everywhere. These women kick men's > >ass and most of them will go to play college football since all the evils > >are gone. And women can now play in the PGA (Like THAT could really happen!!!!!) -- David E. Milligan http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=46286

2003-05-21 20:06:13-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - ("David E. Milligan" <davideml@bellsouth.net>)


"Paul Hanlin, Jr." <paulhan@comcast.net> wrote in message news:octncv4nlntv3cjaqkflsepq8ifkre401u@4ax.com... > On Wed, 21 May 2003 08:59:43 GMT, "Ar Q" <ArthurQ283@hottmail.com> > wrote: > > >Thanks to Willow, now there are slayers everywhere. These women kick men's > >ass and most of them will go to play college football since all the evils > >are gone. And women can now play in the PGA (Like THAT could really happen!!!!!) -- David E. Milligan http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=46286

2003-05-22 14:55:40-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? These girls don't know that they're magically enhanced, and even if they did, there's no rule against it. Pretty much all top athletes in any sport are using some sort of artificial enhancements of their natural abilities. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-22 14:55:40-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? These girls don't know that they're magically enhanced, and even if they did, there's no rule against it. Pretty much all top athletes in any sport are using some sort of artificial enhancements of their natural abilities. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-22 15:37:22+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (arromdee@violet.rahul.net)


They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). -- Ken Arromdee / arromdee@rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee "There are some corners of the universe that have bred the most terrible things, things which act against everything that we believe in. They must be fought." --Dr. Who, "The Moonbase"

2003-05-22 15:37:22+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (arromdee@violet.rahul.net)


They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). -- Ken Arromdee / arromdee@rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee "There are some corners of the universe that have bred the most terrible things, things which act against everything that we believe in. They must be fought." --Dr. Who, "The Moonbase"

2003-05-22 17:43:01-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > couldn't > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's not cheating in my opinion. > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). It's not like everyone knows they are Slayers. Not sure how they'd be kicked out of sports if they wanted to play. In fact, once a few basketball coaches saw what these girls could do, they'd be salivating to sign them up, not kick them out.

2003-05-22 17:43:01-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > couldn't > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's not cheating in my opinion. > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). It's not like everyone knows they are Slayers. Not sure how they'd be kicked out of sports if they wanted to play. In fact, once a few basketball coaches saw what these girls could do, they'd be salivating to sign them up, not kick them out.

2003-05-22 17:43:54-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <baj7gd$bbi$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > In article <220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>, > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > >> They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > >> couldn't play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all > >> his powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) > >> If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > >> longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > >> > >> Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > >> Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > >> someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > >So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it > >than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > >unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > > No, because they can compete against other major league baseball players. And these girls can compete against other Slayers.

2003-05-22 17:43:54-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <baj7gd$bbi$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > In article <220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>, > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > >> They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > >> couldn't play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all > >> his powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) > >> If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > >> longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > >> > >> Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > >> Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > >> someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > >So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it > >than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > >unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > > No, because they can compete against other major league baseball players. And these girls can compete against other Slayers.

2003-05-22 18:45:49-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Tom Breton <tehom@REMOVEpanNOSPAMix.com>)


arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) writes: > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). Perhaps they could play miniature golf. We know being a Slayer didn't make Buffy any good at that (Ted). 'Course, you know what Al Bundy said about that... }:) -- Tom Breton at panix.com, username tehom. http://www.panix.com/~tehom

2003-05-22 18:45:49-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Tom Breton <tehom@REMOVEpanNOSPAMix.com>)


arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) writes: > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). Perhaps they could play miniature golf. We know being a Slayer didn't make Buffy any good at that (Ted). 'Course, you know what Al Bundy said about that... }:) -- Tom Breton at panix.com, username tehom. http://www.panix.com/~tehom

2003-05-22 22:55:15-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net>)


On Thu, 22 May 2003 14:55:40 -0400, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it >than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so >unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? Lots of guys just didn't bother trying to compete because Greg Lougainis would've beaten them. The guy was just the best at what he did. Ditto Michael Jordan, pretty much, no??

2003-05-22 22:55:15-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net>)


On Thu, 22 May 2003 14:55:40 -0400, Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: >So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it >than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so >unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? Lots of guys just didn't bother trying to compete because Greg Lougainis would've beaten them. The guy was just the best at what he did. Ditto Michael Jordan, pretty much, no??

2003-05-23 05:46:13+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (woodruffs@cableone.net)


>Ken Arromdee was cut from the Baylor football team for saying... >They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't >play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his >powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If >somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer >make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. This is why my mother wouldn't let me play sports. I just know it. Trent Chairborne "Nine of Diamonds" Ranger There are 10 types of people in the world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.

2003-05-23 05:46:13+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (woodruffs@cableone.net)


>Ken Arromdee was cut from the Baylor football team for saying... >They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't >play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his >powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If >somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer >make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. This is why my mother wouldn't let me play sports. I just know it. Trent Chairborne "Nine of Diamonds" Ranger There are 10 types of people in the world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.

2003-05-24 00:40:13-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message news:baj7gd$bbi$5@blue.rahul.net... > In article <220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>, > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > >> They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't > >> play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > >> powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > >> somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > >> make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > >> > >> Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > >> Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > >> makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > >So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it > >than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > >unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > > No, because they can compete against other major league baseball players. Slayers can compete against other slayers. > Also, while they are physically better than some people, there's still a lot > of training and effort involved. If there was a group of people who could > instantly become major league baseball players by magic with minimal or no > training, it *would* be unfair for them to play against anyone else. There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted than their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There are raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off and just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from playing high school sports? You cannot ban someone for having too much natural ability. That goes against the very idea of what sports is about- the best competing against the best. Arnold Kim

2003-05-24 00:40:13-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message news:baj7gd$bbi$5@blue.rahul.net... > In article <220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>, > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > >> They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't > >> play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > >> powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > >> somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > >> make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > >> > >> Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > >> Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > >> makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > >So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it > >than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > >unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > > No, because they can compete against other major league baseball players. Slayers can compete against other slayers. > Also, while they are physically better than some people, there's still a lot > of training and effort involved. If there was a group of people who could > instantly become major league baseball players by magic with minimal or no > training, it *would* be unfair for them to play against anyone else. There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted than their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There are raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off and just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from playing high school sports? You cannot ban someone for having too much natural ability. That goes against the very idea of what sports is about- the best competing against the best. Arnold Kim

2003-05-24 00:59:32-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-8624A6.17430122052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > > couldn't > > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's not > cheating in my opinion. I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they play against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played basketball against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only because of a cowardice in avoiding the higher levels of competition. It wouldn't be the case with Slayers because they wouldn't be deliberately playing "down" if engaged in professional athletics. They'd go straight to the highest levels possible. Arnold Kim

2003-05-24 00:59:32-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-8624A6.17430122052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > > couldn't > > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's not > cheating in my opinion. I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they play against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played basketball against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only because of a cowardice in avoiding the higher levels of competition. It wouldn't be the case with Slayers because they wouldn't be deliberately playing "down" if engaged in professional athletics. They'd go straight to the highest levels possible. Arnold Kim

2003-05-24 02:58:42-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message news:<220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>... > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee > <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't > > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it > than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? ---- Literally they are not in the same league. Your baseball superstars maybe stronger and more skillfull than Joe Average, but they still fall well within human peramatures. Buffy can literally lift a ton if my guesstimates are right. What do you think she would do to a baseball if she hits it? Do you really want to take a clothes line line drive to third if you are a third baseman? I the hell would not. But that would be an accident since with both her slayer strength and reflexes and ability to calculate the angle of a fast moving projectile well enough to catch an arrow in mid air she would be hitting a home run every time she came up to bat; except for the accidental line drives to third or, horrors, back to the pitcher. Sorry, you will have to ban The Slayers from normal human baseball, starting with that 12 year old potential in little Leage who got her powers while up to bat. > > These girls don't know that they're magically enhanced, and even if > they did, there's no rule against it. Pretty much all top athletes in > any sport are using some sort of artificial enhancements of their > natural abilities. ---- Again not the same. That 12 year old girl probably can bench press 1500 lbs. Do you know of any steriod freak that can lift that? Even they fall within normal human perameters. And it is not a matter of knowing or not and it will be a rule against them. She can play tug o' war with three of the biggest, strongest NFL players with them on oneside and her on the other end of the rope. It is simply not possible for them to play in Major League sports just like Bernie Williams cannot play Little League in his mid 20's Oh, and I forgot that Buffy and Faith can run at 40 mph at least. Them playing in Major League sports would be like us 20+ here playing T-Ball with the three year olds and not holding back. ----->Hunter

2003-05-24 02:58:42-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message news:<220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>... > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee > <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't > > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it > than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? ---- Literally they are not in the same league. Your baseball superstars maybe stronger and more skillfull than Joe Average, but they still fall well within human peramatures. Buffy can literally lift a ton if my guesstimates are right. What do you think she would do to a baseball if she hits it? Do you really want to take a clothes line line drive to third if you are a third baseman? I the hell would not. But that would be an accident since with both her slayer strength and reflexes and ability to calculate the angle of a fast moving projectile well enough to catch an arrow in mid air she would be hitting a home run every time she came up to bat; except for the accidental line drives to third or, horrors, back to the pitcher. Sorry, you will have to ban The Slayers from normal human baseball, starting with that 12 year old potential in little Leage who got her powers while up to bat. > > These girls don't know that they're magically enhanced, and even if > they did, there's no rule against it. Pretty much all top athletes in > any sport are using some sort of artificial enhancements of their > natural abilities. ---- Again not the same. That 12 year old girl probably can bench press 1500 lbs. Do you know of any steriod freak that can lift that? Even they fall within normal human perameters. And it is not a matter of knowing or not and it will be a rule against them. She can play tug o' war with three of the biggest, strongest NFL players with them on oneside and her on the other end of the rope. It is simply not possible for them to play in Major League sports just like Bernie Williams cannot play Little League in his mid 20's Oh, and I forgot that Buffy and Faith can run at 40 mph at least. Them playing in Major League sports would be like us 20+ here playing T-Ball with the three year olds and not holding back. ----->Hunter

2003-05-24 03:10:37-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


"Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message news:<bamt2e$sfr$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > news:baj7gd$bbi$5@blue.rahul.net... > > In article <220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>, > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > >> They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > couldn't > > >> play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all > his > > >> powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > > >> somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > longer > > >> make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > >> > > >> Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > > >> Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > someone > > >> makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > >So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it > > >than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > > >unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > > > > No, because they can compete against other major league baseball players. > > Slayers can compete against other slayers. --- That's fine. > > > Also, while they are physically better than some people, there's still a > lot > > of training and effort involved. If there was a group of people who could > > instantly become major league baseball players by magic with minimal or no > > training, it *would* be unfair for them to play against anyone else. > > There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted than > their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There are > raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams > pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. > Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off and > just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from playing > high school sports? --- No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human specifications. Even the 'roid riders are not that much stronger than someone not on 'roids. A Slayer simply out classes us in every way. > > You cannot ban someone for having too much natural ability. That goes > against the very idea of what sports is about- the best competing against > the best. > > Arnold Kim =----- Then in every sport they enter they will get the top whatever number of slayers there are in the league. No normal person could ever win again How about those people who had worked there buts off? Buffy et al. would not even have to put out %50 percent effort to best them. I am sorry, but you are not grasping how much stronger, faster and quicker Buffy and the other Slayers to the rest of humanity. Sorry, along with there Gifts there will be burdens. Not being able to compete in the Olympics will be one of them. ---->Hunter

2003-05-24 03:10:37-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


"Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message news:<bamt2e$sfr$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > news:baj7gd$bbi$5@blue.rahul.net... > > In article <220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>, > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote: > > >> They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > couldn't > > >> play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all > his > > >> powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > > >> somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > longer > > >> make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > >> > > >> Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > > >> Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > someone > > >> makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > >So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it > > >than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > > >unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > > > > No, because they can compete against other major league baseball players. > > Slayers can compete against other slayers. --- That's fine. > > > Also, while they are physically better than some people, there's still a > lot > > of training and effort involved. If there was a group of people who could > > instantly become major league baseball players by magic with minimal or no > > training, it *would* be unfair for them to play against anyone else. > > There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted than > their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There are > raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams > pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. > Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off and > just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from playing > high school sports? --- No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human specifications. Even the 'roid riders are not that much stronger than someone not on 'roids. A Slayer simply out classes us in every way. > > You cannot ban someone for having too much natural ability. That goes > against the very idea of what sports is about- the best competing against > the best. > > Arnold Kim =----- Then in every sport they enter they will get the top whatever number of slayers there are in the league. No normal person could ever win again How about those people who had worked there buts off? Buffy et al. would not even have to put out %50 percent effort to best them. I am sorry, but you are not grasping how much stronger, faster and quicker Buffy and the other Slayers to the rest of humanity. Sorry, along with there Gifts there will be burdens. Not being able to compete in the Olympics will be one of them. ---->Hunter

2003-05-24 03:16:24-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-8624A6.17430122052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > > couldn't > > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's not > cheating in my opinion. --- It is not cheating, but it is simply being outclass by an absurd length. > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > It's not like everyone knows they are Slayers. Not sure how they'd be > kicked out of sports if they wanted to play. In fact, once a few > basketball coaches saw what these girls could do, they'd be salivating > to sign them up, not kick them out. ---- But You have to understand that they don't even have to train to make it on to the team. There natural ability, and I mean natural, not honed by training, just walk in off the street, is miles above other. Unless they compete against and with other slayers, there will be no skill or effort involved. ---->Hunter

2003-05-24 03:16:24-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-8624A6.17430122052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > > couldn't > > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's not > cheating in my opinion. --- It is not cheating, but it is simply being outclass by an absurd length. > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > It's not like everyone knows they are Slayers. Not sure how they'd be > kicked out of sports if they wanted to play. In fact, once a few > basketball coaches saw what these girls could do, they'd be salivating > to sign them up, not kick them out. ---- But You have to understand that they don't even have to train to make it on to the team. There natural ability, and I mean natural, not honed by training, just walk in off the street, is miles above other. Unless they compete against and with other slayers, there will be no skill or effort involved. ---->Hunter

2003-05-24 09:01:05-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305240216.8ffb1bf@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-8624A6.17430122052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > > > couldn't play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all > > > his powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) > > > If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > > > longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > > > Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's not > > cheating in my opinion. > --- > It is not cheating, but it is simply being outclass by an absurd > length. So be it. Tiger Woods often outclasses his competition by an absurd length. No one's suggesting banning him from golf. > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > > > someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > It's not like everyone knows they are Slayers. Not sure how they'd be > > kicked out of sports if they wanted to play. In fact, once a few > > basketball coaches saw what these girls could do, they'd be salivating > > to sign them up, not kick them out. > ---- > But You have to understand that they don't even have to train to make > it on to the team. There natural ability, and I mean natural, not > honed by training, just walk in off the street, is miles above other. Some real athletes are like that. Michael Jordan's natural ability didn't come from training. The only reason that guy needed to go to practice was to learn how the team works as a whole and so would a Slayer in the same position. The test of athletics is ability, not how many hours of training it took you to get there.

2003-05-24 09:01:05-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305240216.8ffb1bf@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-8624A6.17430122052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > > > couldn't play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all > > > his powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) > > > If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > > > longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > > > Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's not > > cheating in my opinion. > --- > It is not cheating, but it is simply being outclass by an absurd > length. So be it. Tiger Woods often outclasses his competition by an absurd length. No one's suggesting banning him from golf. > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > > > someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > It's not like everyone knows they are Slayers. Not sure how they'd be > > kicked out of sports if they wanted to play. In fact, once a few > > basketball coaches saw what these girls could do, they'd be salivating > > to sign them up, not kick them out. > ---- > But You have to understand that they don't even have to train to make > it on to the team. There natural ability, and I mean natural, not > honed by training, just walk in off the street, is miles above other. Some real athletes are like that. Michael Jordan's natural ability didn't come from training. The only reason that guy needed to go to practice was to learn how the team works as a whole and so would a Slayer in the same position. The test of athletics is ability, not how many hours of training it took you to get there.

2003-05-24 09:02:48-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305240158.27fdfe4a@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > news:<220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>... > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee > > <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > > > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > > > couldn't > > > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all > > > his > > > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) > > > If > > > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > > > longer > > > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > stars. > > > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > > > someone > > > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it > > than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > > unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > ---- > Literally they are not in the same league. Your baseball superstars > maybe stronger and more skillfull than Joe Average, but they still > fall well within human peramatures. Buffy can literally lift a ton if > my guesstimates are right. What do you think she would do to a > baseball if she hits it? Do you really want to take a clothes line > line drive to third if you are a third baseman? I the hell would not. > But that would be an accident since with both her slayer strength and > reflexes and ability to calculate the angle of a fast moving > projectile well enough to catch an arrow in mid air she would be > hitting a home run every time she came up to bat; except for the > accidental line drives to third or, horrors, back to the pitcher. > Sorry, you will have to ban The Slayers from normal human baseball, > starting with that 12 year old potential in little Leage who got her > powers while up to bat. How do you (or even the girls themselves) know they are Slayers? How will you test for Slayerness? If you're going to start banning people, these are questions you have to answer.

2003-05-24 09:02:48-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305240158.27fdfe4a@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > news:<220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>... > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee > > <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > > > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > > > couldn't > > > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all > > > his > > > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) > > > If > > > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > > > longer > > > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > stars. > > > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > > > someone > > > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it > > than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > > unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > ---- > Literally they are not in the same league. Your baseball superstars > maybe stronger and more skillfull than Joe Average, but they still > fall well within human peramatures. Buffy can literally lift a ton if > my guesstimates are right. What do you think she would do to a > baseball if she hits it? Do you really want to take a clothes line > line drive to third if you are a third baseman? I the hell would not. > But that would be an accident since with both her slayer strength and > reflexes and ability to calculate the angle of a fast moving > projectile well enough to catch an arrow in mid air she would be > hitting a home run every time she came up to bat; except for the > accidental line drives to third or, horrors, back to the pitcher. > Sorry, you will have to ban The Slayers from normal human baseball, > starting with that 12 year old potential in little Leage who got her > powers while up to bat. How do you (or even the girls themselves) know they are Slayers? How will you test for Slayerness? If you're going to start banning people, these are questions you have to answer.

2003-05-24 09:03:56-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> > wrote: > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they play > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played basketball > >against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only because of a cowardice in > >avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to play > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you didn't > deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, would that win > be in any way meaningful? No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be meaningful to her pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account.

2003-05-24 09:03:56-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> > wrote: > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they play > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played basketball > >against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only because of a cowardice in > >avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to play > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you didn't > deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, would that win > be in any way meaningful? No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be meaningful to her pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account.

2003-05-24 09:05:19-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message > news:<bamt2e$sfr$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > That's fine. > > > > > Also, while they are physically better than some people, there's > > > still a lot > > > of training and effort involved. If there was a group of people who > > > could instantly become major league baseball players by magic with minimal > > > or no training, it *would* be unfair for them to play against anyone else. > > > > There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted > > than their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There > > are raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams > > pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. > > Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off > > and just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from > > playing high school sports? > --- > No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human > specifications. And how do you define "normal human specifications"?

2003-05-24 09:05:19-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message > news:<bamt2e$sfr$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > That's fine. > > > > > Also, while they are physically better than some people, there's > > > still a lot > > > of training and effort involved. If there was a group of people who > > > could instantly become major league baseball players by magic with minimal > > > or no training, it *would* be unfair for them to play against anyone else. > > > > There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted > > than their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There > > are raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams > > pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. > > Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off > > and just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from > > playing high school sports? > --- > No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human > specifications. And how do you define "normal human specifications"?

2003-05-24 09:05:47-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Arnold Kim wrote: > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > news:baj7gd$bbi$5@blue.rahul.net... > > In article <220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>, . > > There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted than > their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There are > raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams > pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. > Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off and > just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from playing > high school sports? > > You cannot ban someone for having too much natural ability. That goes > against the very idea of what sports is about- the best competing against > the best. > > Arnold Kim It's not natural ability though, they were chosen so they received their ability from another source. It could be argued that all but one at any given time got their power from a spell cast by Willow. There are high school prot�g�s that are far ahead of their contemporaries, but usually at the pro level the talent evens out. Even the very best like Michael Jordan aren't quantum leaps ahead of their peers. Slayers would not be the peers of non Slayer athletes. They are only the peers of other Slayers.

2003-05-24 09:05:47-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Carmikl <Carmikl@rcn.com>)


Arnold Kim wrote: > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > news:baj7gd$bbi$5@blue.rahul.net... > > In article <220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>, . > > There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted than > their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There are > raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams > pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. > Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off and > just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from playing > high school sports? > > You cannot ban someone for having too much natural ability. That goes > against the very idea of what sports is about- the best competing against > the best. > > Arnold Kim It's not natural ability though, they were chosen so they received their ability from another source. It could be argued that all but one at any given time got their power from a spell cast by Willow. There are high school prot�g�s that are far ahead of their contemporaries, but usually at the pro level the talent evens out. Even the very best like Michael Jordan aren't quantum leaps ahead of their peers. Slayers would not be the peers of non Slayer athletes. They are only the peers of other Slayers.

2003-05-24 10:30:04-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net>)


On Sat, 24 May 2003 09:05:19 -0500, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human >> specifications. > >And how do you define "normal human specifications"? Standing vertical leap of only a foot or two, rather than twelve?

2003-05-24 10:30:04-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net>)


On Sat, 24 May 2003 09:05:19 -0500, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human >> specifications. > >And how do you define "normal human specifications"? Standing vertical leap of only a foot or two, rather than twelve?

2003-05-24 10:58:47-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message news:ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net... > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they play against > >significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played basketball against > >90 year old grandmothers) but that's only because of a cowardice in avoiding > >the higher levels of competition. > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to play > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you didn't > deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, would that win > be in any way meaningful? No, but I can find other levels of competition. Going to another town, for instance. Arnold Kim

2003-05-24 10:58:47-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message news:ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net... > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they play against > >significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played basketball against > >90 year old grandmothers) but that's only because of a cowardice in avoiding > >the higher levels of competition. > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to play > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you didn't > deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, would that win > be in any way meaningful? No, but I can find other levels of competition. Going to another town, for instance. Arnold Kim

2003-05-24 11:15:03-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Hunter" <buffhunter@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com... > "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message news:<bamt2e$sfr$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > > news:baj7gd$bbi$5@blue.rahul.net... > > > Also, while they are physically better than some people, there's still a > > lot > > > of training and effort involved. If there was a group of people who could > > > instantly become major league baseball players by magic with minimal or no > > > training, it *would* be unfair for them to play against anyone else. > > > > There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted than > > their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There are > > raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams > > pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. > > Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off and > > just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from playing > > high school sports? > --- > No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human > specifications. Even the 'roid riders are not that much stronger than > someone not on 'roids. A Slayer simply out classes us in every way. So does LeBron James over the rest of his high school basketball team. You don't realize how huge of a difference that is, do you? Someone who's near NBA superstar caliber versus a high school ballplayer? The idea of a player being banned for having too much ability or being too dominant is ludicrous. There have been high school basketball players who have scored 100 points in a single game. > > You cannot ban someone for having too much natural ability. That goes > > against the very idea of what sports is about- the best competing against > > the best. > > > > Arnold Kim > =----- > Then in every sport they enter they will get the top whatever number > of slayers there are in the league. No normal person could ever win > again How about those people who had worked there buts off? Buffy et > al. would not even have to put out %50 percent effort to best them. Should Michael Jordan be banned from playing pickup games at the Y? There are a lot of people who work their butts off in a sport who will be outplayed by someone who is naturally gifted but never tried. So many times in the real world there have been cases where someone who coasted did better than someone who gave it their all. So that's not an excuse. > I am sorry, but you are not grasping how much stronger, faster and > quicker Buffy and the other Slayers to the rest of humanity. I think I am. And I don't think that matters. Arnold Kim

2003-05-24 11:15:03-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Hunter" <buffhunter@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com... > "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message news:<bamt2e$sfr$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > > news:baj7gd$bbi$5@blue.rahul.net... > > > Also, while they are physically better than some people, there's still a > > lot > > > of training and effort involved. If there was a group of people who could > > > instantly become major league baseball players by magic with minimal or no > > > training, it *would* be unfair for them to play against anyone else. > > > > There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted than > > their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There are > > raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams > > pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. > > Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off and > > just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from playing > > high school sports? > --- > No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human > specifications. Even the 'roid riders are not that much stronger than > someone not on 'roids. A Slayer simply out classes us in every way. So does LeBron James over the rest of his high school basketball team. You don't realize how huge of a difference that is, do you? Someone who's near NBA superstar caliber versus a high school ballplayer? The idea of a player being banned for having too much ability or being too dominant is ludicrous. There have been high school basketball players who have scored 100 points in a single game. > > You cannot ban someone for having too much natural ability. That goes > > against the very idea of what sports is about- the best competing against > > the best. > > > > Arnold Kim > =----- > Then in every sport they enter they will get the top whatever number > of slayers there are in the league. No normal person could ever win > again How about those people who had worked there buts off? Buffy et > al. would not even have to put out %50 percent effort to best them. Should Michael Jordan be banned from playing pickup games at the Y? There are a lot of people who work their butts off in a sport who will be outplayed by someone who is naturally gifted but never tried. So many times in the real world there have been cases where someone who coasted did better than someone who gave it their all. So that's not an excuse. > I am sorry, but you are not grasping how much stronger, faster and > quicker Buffy and the other Slayers to the rest of humanity. I think I am. And I don't think that matters. Arnold Kim

2003-05-24 11:17:12-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On Thu, 22 May 2003 15:37:22 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). Well, first of all, in a world where "super powers" are not believed in by the general public, someone would have to establish somehow that al these suddenly strong women were anything but just naturally strong, and they make a rule against them playing. Although a "all slayer" or "all supernatural" sporting event doessound nice. Slayers, battle demons, witches, all on the field! WOO and HOO! -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-05-24 11:17:12-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On Thu, 22 May 2003 15:37:22 +0000 (UTC), arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy couldn't > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all his > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) If > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no longer > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports stars. > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless someone > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). Well, first of all, in a world where "super powers" are not believed in by the general public, someone would have to establish somehow that al these suddenly strong women were anything but just naturally strong, and they make a rule against them playing. Although a "all slayer" or "all supernatural" sporting event doessound nice. Slayers, battle demons, witches, all on the field! WOO and HOO! -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-05-24 12:16:49-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net>)


On 24 May 2003 14:43:05 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >And it's not like modern science couldn't detect Slayers from >normal humans if they really put their minds to it. I >guarantee a more or less reliable Slayer-detector would pop >up if the millions of dollars in college and professional >sports got involved. Give 'em a nice small laceration in an unnoticeable spot, and watch it over the next few days. If it vanishes in less than a week, it's a Slayer.

2003-05-24 12:16:49-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net>)


On 24 May 2003 14:43:05 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >And it's not like modern science couldn't detect Slayers from >normal humans if they really put their minds to it. I >guarantee a more or less reliable Slayer-detector would pop >up if the millions of dollars in college and professional >sports got involved. Give 'em a nice small laceration in an unnoticeable spot, and watch it over the next few days. If it vanishes in less than a week, it's a Slayer.

2003-05-24 14:31:10-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bao6bs$b66$1@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > >The idea of a player being banned for having too much ability or being too > >dominant is ludicrous. > > Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about > Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external measures to enhance their game. > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > level, right? The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. She then would be cheating. > And yes, it really is the same issue. Slayer powers would be > harder to detect if the Slayers using them had an ounce of > brains, but the issue is the same - just like steroid users > or somebody who used magical spells, Slayers have an unfair > advantage over other athletes. Unlike steroid users, it's not > something they chose to do, but that doesn't change the fact > that they do have an unfair advantage. And athletes in our > world have been banned from competition for using perfecly > legitimate drugs for legitimate reasons that were thought to > have side effects that would give them an unfair advantage, > so you can't even use "They're not deliberately looking for > an edge" as an excuse. Most of the time, it's because those side effects have dangerous consequences in the long run. If you can give me any example of an athlete being disqualified for just being naturally too good, then you have a case. Arnold Kim

2003-05-24 14:31:10-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bao6bs$b66$1@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > >The idea of a player being banned for having too much ability or being too > >dominant is ludicrous. > > Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about > Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external measures to enhance their game. > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > level, right? The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. She then would be cheating. > And yes, it really is the same issue. Slayer powers would be > harder to detect if the Slayers using them had an ounce of > brains, but the issue is the same - just like steroid users > or somebody who used magical spells, Slayers have an unfair > advantage over other athletes. Unlike steroid users, it's not > something they chose to do, but that doesn't change the fact > that they do have an unfair advantage. And athletes in our > world have been banned from competition for using perfecly > legitimate drugs for legitimate reasons that were thought to > have side effects that would give them an unfair advantage, > so you can't even use "They're not deliberately looking for > an edge" as an excuse. Most of the time, it's because those side effects have dangerous consequences in the long run. If you can give me any example of an athlete being disqualified for just being naturally too good, then you have a case. Arnold Kim

2003-05-24 14:35:24-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3ECF985B.D4D86C09@rcn.com... > Arnold Kim wrote: > > > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > > news:baj7gd$bbi$5@blue.rahul.net... > > > In article <220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>, > . > > > > There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted than > > their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There are > > raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams > > pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. > > Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off and > > just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from playing > > high school sports? > > > > You cannot ban someone for having too much natural ability. That goes > > against the very idea of what sports is about- the best competing against > > the best. > > > > Arnold Kim > > It's not natural ability though, they were chosen so they received their > ability from another source. It could be argued that all but one at any > given time got their power from a spell cast by Willow. There are high It could also just as easily be argued that they had the potential in them the whole time and Willow merely unlocked it. > school prot���g���s that are far ahead of their contemporaries, but usually > at the pro level the talent evens out. Even the very best like Michael > Jordan aren't quantum leaps ahead of their peers. > > Slayers would not be the peers of non Slayer athletes. They are only the > peers of other Slayers. Then that would be who they'd play against. Arnold Kim

2003-05-24 14:35:24-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Carmikl" <Carmikl@rcn.com> wrote in message news:3ECF985B.D4D86C09@rcn.com... > Arnold Kim wrote: > > > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > > news:baj7gd$bbi$5@blue.rahul.net... > > > In article <220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>, > . > > > > There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted than > > their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There are > > raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams > > pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. > > Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off and > > just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from playing > > high school sports? > > > > You cannot ban someone for having too much natural ability. That goes > > against the very idea of what sports is about- the best competing against > > the best. > > > > Arnold Kim > > It's not natural ability though, they were chosen so they received their > ability from another source. It could be argued that all but one at any > given time got their power from a spell cast by Willow. There are high It could also just as easily be argued that they had the potential in them the whole time and Willow merely unlocked it. > school prot���g���s that are far ahead of their contemporaries, but usually > at the pro level the talent evens out. Even the very best like Michael > Jordan aren't quantum leaps ahead of their peers. > > Slayers would not be the peers of non Slayer athletes. They are only the > peers of other Slayers. Then that would be who they'd play against. Arnold Kim

2003-05-24 14:43:05+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net> wrote: >On Sat, 24 May 2003 09:05:19 -0500, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> >wrote: >>> No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human >>> specifications. >> >>And how do you define "normal human specifications"? >Standing vertical leap of only a foot or two, rather than twelve? Sounds good to me. If nothing else, an unknown athlete who starts breaking world records right and left would be put on the "Hmmm, maybe..." list. And it's not like modern science couldn't detect Slayers from normal humans if they really put their minds to it. I guarantee a more or less reliable Slayer-detector would pop up if the millions of dollars in college and professional sports got involved. As for Slayers playing against normal humans, forget the "Should they" issues. It'll all come down to whether or not people can make money off it. For the first few months or years, people will gladly pay to see 15 year old girls kicking the crap out of men twice their size in whatever sport you choose. After that, it'd get boring pretty quick, and the money would taper off. After THAT, the Slayers wouldn't be allowed to compete against normal humans anymore, but you'd better believe that a Slayer's Only league would start up for every sport people wanted to see. It's quite possible that normal organized sports would lose their appeal. Who wants to see Michael Jordan play ball when there's an entire league full of women who can outperform him on the best day of his life? Pete

2003-05-24 14:43:05+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net> wrote: >On Sat, 24 May 2003 09:05:19 -0500, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> >wrote: >>> No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human >>> specifications. >> >>And how do you define "normal human specifications"? >Standing vertical leap of only a foot or two, rather than twelve? Sounds good to me. If nothing else, an unknown athlete who starts breaking world records right and left would be put on the "Hmmm, maybe..." list. And it's not like modern science couldn't detect Slayers from normal humans if they really put their minds to it. I guarantee a more or less reliable Slayer-detector would pop up if the millions of dollars in college and professional sports got involved. As for Slayers playing against normal humans, forget the "Should they" issues. It'll all come down to whether or not people can make money off it. For the first few months or years, people will gladly pay to see 15 year old girls kicking the crap out of men twice their size in whatever sport you choose. After that, it'd get boring pretty quick, and the money would taper off. After THAT, the Slayers wouldn't be allowed to compete against normal humans anymore, but you'd better believe that a Slayer's Only league would start up for every sport people wanted to see. It's quite possible that normal organized sports would lose their appeal. Who wants to see Michael Jordan play ball when there's an entire league full of women who can outperform him on the best day of his life? Pete

2003-05-24 15:16:55-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message > > news:<bamt2e$sfr$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > > That's fine. > > > > > > > Also, while they are physically better than some people, there's > > > > still a lot > > > > of training and effort involved. If there was a group of people who > > > > could instantly become major league baseball players by magic with minimal > > > > or no training, it *would* be unfair for them to play against anyone else. > > > > > > There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted > > > than their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There > > > are raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams > > > pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. > > > Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off > > > and just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from > > > playing high school sports? > > --- > > No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human > > specifications. > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? --- Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. For example The World record for Weightlifting is held by Hossein Reza Zadeh of Iran in the Clean and Jerk at 580 pounds. The female record is held by Tang GongHong of The People's Republic of China in the Clean and Jerk at 165.5kg (364 pounds if I am converting from metric to English right: 1 kilogram =2.2 pounds) Now someone can come along and take both World Records but for at least the men, it will be by only 2 or 3 or 5 pounds or so. In the Women it may be more dramatic since the talent pool is so much smaller and the formal sport of Women's Weightlifting is still quite new. A woman that can lift say 400 pounds if she started the sport and trained heavily is probably doing housework right now unaware of her potential capability. So someone could come along and all of a suddend set the women's record by 50 or even 60 pounds. A Slayer most likely can lift 4 times the men's record, to say nothing of the women's. In sprinting, the men's 100meter dash is held by England's Tim Montgomery at 9.78 seconds or 22.872 mph. Marion Jones, is the women's record holder at 10.76 seconds in the 100 meters. That is about 20.789mph (and very cute I might add). That incidently falls between Reggie Walker at 10.8 seconds in 1908 and Jesse Ownen at 10.3sec in 1936. It has been said, but not on the show I think, that Buffy can run at 40 mph. At any rate, as we saw in "Chosen" she can match speed with a school bus which I presume was going flat out to escape the sink hole that was swallowing Sunnydale (but I don't think Robin got it out of first gear), while she was leaping from roof top to roof top. She was not running as efficiently as she would on level ground. So just like with weight lifting she would destroy all the running records: 100 meter, 200 meter 600 meter et. al; hurdles of all flavors, broad jump, high jump etc. Any normal talented and exceptional person could beat those records by a few pounds or a few seconds, but a Slayer will blow them away. Who would want to compete with them. We get all upset over steroids, but cheating or not they enchance human capability by only so much. Maybe they would give a person the ability to lift and extra 15 or even 20 pounds, but not an extra 1500lbs. That is what I mean by human perameters. ----->Hunter

2003-05-24 15:16:55-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote in message > > news:<bamt2e$sfr$1@bob.news.rcn.net>... > > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > > That's fine. > > > > > > > Also, while they are physically better than some people, there's > > > > still a lot > > > > of training and effort involved. If there was a group of people who > > > > could instantly become major league baseball players by magic with minimal > > > > or no training, it *would* be unfair for them to play against anyone else. > > > > > > There have been high school athletes who are far more naturally gifted > > > than their teammates and opponents- even before training and whatnot. There > > > are raw talents who have been selected starters on their high school teams > > > pretty much the moment after they pick up a ball for the first time. > > > Selected starters, I might add, over others who worked their butts off > > > and just weren't as good. Does that mean they should be banned from > > > playing high school sports? > > --- > > No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human > > specifications. > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? --- Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. For example The World record for Weightlifting is held by Hossein Reza Zadeh of Iran in the Clean and Jerk at 580 pounds. The female record is held by Tang GongHong of The People's Republic of China in the Clean and Jerk at 165.5kg (364 pounds if I am converting from metric to English right: 1 kilogram =2.2 pounds) Now someone can come along and take both World Records but for at least the men, it will be by only 2 or 3 or 5 pounds or so. In the Women it may be more dramatic since the talent pool is so much smaller and the formal sport of Women's Weightlifting is still quite new. A woman that can lift say 400 pounds if she started the sport and trained heavily is probably doing housework right now unaware of her potential capability. So someone could come along and all of a suddend set the women's record by 50 or even 60 pounds. A Slayer most likely can lift 4 times the men's record, to say nothing of the women's. In sprinting, the men's 100meter dash is held by England's Tim Montgomery at 9.78 seconds or 22.872 mph. Marion Jones, is the women's record holder at 10.76 seconds in the 100 meters. That is about 20.789mph (and very cute I might add). That incidently falls between Reggie Walker at 10.8 seconds in 1908 and Jesse Ownen at 10.3sec in 1936. It has been said, but not on the show I think, that Buffy can run at 40 mph. At any rate, as we saw in "Chosen" she can match speed with a school bus which I presume was going flat out to escape the sink hole that was swallowing Sunnydale (but I don't think Robin got it out of first gear), while she was leaping from roof top to roof top. She was not running as efficiently as she would on level ground. So just like with weight lifting she would destroy all the running records: 100 meter, 200 meter 600 meter et. al; hurdles of all flavors, broad jump, high jump etc. Any normal talented and exceptional person could beat those records by a few pounds or a few seconds, but a Slayer will blow them away. Who would want to compete with them. We get all upset over steroids, but cheating or not they enchance human capability by only so much. Maybe they would give a person the ability to lift and extra 15 or even 20 pounds, but not an extra 1500lbs. That is what I mean by human perameters. ----->Hunter

2003-05-24 15:22:57-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-7033B7.09024824052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305240158.27fdfe4a@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > > news:<220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>... > > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee > > > <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > > > > > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > > > > couldn't > > > > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all > > > > his > > > > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) > > > > If > > > > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > > > > longer > > > > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > > > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > > stars. > > > > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > > > > someone > > > > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > > So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it > > > than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > > > unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > > ---- > > Literally they are not in the same league. Your baseball superstars > > maybe stronger and more skillfull than Joe Average, but they still > > fall well within human peramatures. Buffy can literally lift a ton if > > my guesstimates are right. What do you think she would do to a > > baseball if she hits it? Do you really want to take a clothes line > > line drive to third if you are a third baseman? I the hell would not. > > But that would be an accident since with both her slayer strength and > > reflexes and ability to calculate the angle of a fast moving > > projectile well enough to catch an arrow in mid air she would be > > hitting a home run every time she came up to bat; except for the > > accidental line drives to third or, horrors, back to the pitcher. > > Sorry, you will have to ban The Slayers from normal human baseball, > > starting with that 12 year old potential in little Leage who got her > > powers while up to bat. > > How do you (or even the girls themselves) know they are Slayers? How > will you test for Slayerness? If you're going to start banning people, > these are questions you have to answer. --- How about being able to lift 500 ponds with one hand? ----->Hunter

2003-05-24 15:22:57-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-7033B7.09024824052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305240158.27fdfe4a@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > > news:<220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>... > > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee > > > <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > > > > > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > > > > couldn't > > > > play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all > > > > his > > > > powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) > > > > If > > > > somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > > > > longer > > > > make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > > > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > > stars. > > > > Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > > > > someone > > > > makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > > So all those major league baseball players who are so much better at it > > > than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > > > unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > > ---- > > Literally they are not in the same league. Your baseball superstars > > maybe stronger and more skillfull than Joe Average, but they still > > fall well within human peramatures. Buffy can literally lift a ton if > > my guesstimates are right. What do you think she would do to a > > baseball if she hits it? Do you really want to take a clothes line > > line drive to third if you are a third baseman? I the hell would not. > > But that would be an accident since with both her slayer strength and > > reflexes and ability to calculate the angle of a fast moving > > projectile well enough to catch an arrow in mid air she would be > > hitting a home run every time she came up to bat; except for the > > accidental line drives to third or, horrors, back to the pitcher. > > Sorry, you will have to ban The Slayers from normal human baseball, > > starting with that 12 year old potential in little Leage who got her > > powers while up to bat. > > How do you (or even the girls themselves) know they are Slayers? How > will you test for Slayerness? If you're going to start banning people, > these are questions you have to answer. --- How about being able to lift 500 ponds with one hand? ----->Hunter

2003-05-24 15:34:35-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-4B029F.09010524052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305240216.8ffb1bf@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-8624A6.17430122052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > > > > couldn't play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all > > > > his powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) > > > > If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > > > > longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > > > > > Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's not > > > cheating in my opinion. > > --- > > It is not cheating, but it is simply being outclass by an absurd > > length. > > So be it. Tiger Woods often outclasses his competition by an absurd > length. No one's suggesting banning him from golf. ---- It is not even the same thing! Someone could come along and beat Tiger. Even Tiger Woods have bad days. Tiger Woods will get old and loose ability. Buffy on the other hand even if she looses 75% of her powers across the board by the time she is 90 years old will still be able to play NFL Football to say nothing of Golf. > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > > stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > > > > someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > > It's not like everyone knows they are Slayers. Not sure how they'd be > > > kicked out of sports if they wanted to play. In fact, once a few > > > basketball coaches saw what these girls could do, they'd be salivating > > > to sign them up, not kick them out. > > ---- > > But You have to understand that they don't even have to train to make > > it on to the team. There natural ability, and I mean natural, not > > honed by training, just walk in off the street, is miles above other. > > Some real athletes are like that. Michael Jordan's natural ability > didn't come from training. The only reason that guy needed to go to > practice was to learn how the team works as a whole and so would a > Slayer in the same position. > > The test of athletics is ability, not how many hours of training it took > you to get there. --- You are just not getting it. I know it sounds all good to have equal opertunity in sports and no one should be barred but a Slayer's abilities are too far above even a Michael Jordan as not to be even compared with. Michael got old at 40 and became a slightly above average player in his last season (or so I hear since I don't follow basketball) as in Golf Buffy, Rona, Faith, Kennedy, Amanda if she lived could out play a 1993 era Micheal Jordan in pro ball in their '90s. --->Hunter

2003-05-24 15:34:35-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-4B029F.09010524052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305240216.8ffb1bf@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-8624A6.17430122052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that Superboy > > > > couldn't play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark didn't have all > > > > his powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong human.) > > > > If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > > > > longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just cheating. > > > > > > Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's not > > > cheating in my opinion. > > --- > > It is not cheating, but it is simply being outclass by an absurd > > length. > > So be it. Tiger Woods often outclasses his competition by an absurd > length. No one's suggesting banning him from golf. ---- It is not even the same thing! Someone could come along and beat Tiger. Even Tiger Woods have bad days. Tiger Woods will get old and loose ability. Buffy on the other hand even if she looses 75% of her powers across the board by the time she is 90 years old will still be able to play NFL Football to say nothing of Golf. > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > > stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > > > > someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > > It's not like everyone knows they are Slayers. Not sure how they'd be > > > kicked out of sports if they wanted to play. In fact, once a few > > > basketball coaches saw what these girls could do, they'd be salivating > > > to sign them up, not kick them out. > > ---- > > But You have to understand that they don't even have to train to make > > it on to the team. There natural ability, and I mean natural, not > > honed by training, just walk in off the street, is miles above other. > > Some real athletes are like that. Michael Jordan's natural ability > didn't come from training. The only reason that guy needed to go to > practice was to learn how the team works as a whole and so would a > Slayer in the same position. > > The test of athletics is ability, not how many hours of training it took > you to get there. --- You are just not getting it. I know it sounds all good to have equal opertunity in sports and no one should be barred but a Slayer's abilities are too far above even a Michael Jordan as not to be even compared with. Michael got old at 40 and became a slightly above average player in his last season (or so I hear since I don't follow basketball) as in Golf Buffy, Rona, Faith, Kennedy, Amanda if she lived could out play a 1993 era Micheal Jordan in pro ball in their '90s. --->Hunter

2003-05-24 16:20:37-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-72943B.09035624052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> > > wrote: > > > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they play > > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played basketball > > >against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only because of a cowardice in > > >avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to play > > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you didn't > > deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, would that win > > be in any way meaningful? > > No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be meaningful to her > pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account. ---- I am rooting ferverently for Monica Sorensen to do well in the PGA events. BJ Sing along with Tiger Woods's comments will be remembered along with those who snubb Jackie Robinson in 1947. The differerence between her and a Slayer is that she is challenging herself to compete at a higher level. I have no qualms whatsoever in women trying to break into men's leagues. I would love to see women in major league baseball. I think they would be at least competent at that level. You will never see a woman break the season record for Home Runs-76 I think-but you may see a female 300 game winning pitcher, were finesse is more important than raw power. Female pitchers will do quite well in Major League Baseball, especially in the American League where you don't have to come to bat. That is not to say women wouldn't make good spray hitters for average. A lot of singles and doubles, fewer triples and homeruns. They will do quite well in the outfield, but will be challenged when they have to throw home on a sacrifice fly or a runner trying to streatch a double into a triple or start from first and trying to make it home. First base will be the second most likely position you will see a lot women in. A woman can dig a badly thrown ball from the third baseman, shortstop, second or the pitcher out of the dirt as well as any man. You would probably have a female base stealing league leader if not all time record holder since men and womens running speed is virtually identical giving the short 90 feet they have to run. Same thing for drag bunting less so for season leading triples and doubles. On the other hand, you will not see many or even any female catchers, the closes equvialent to a football player in baseball. I think a female catcher can catch a 100 mph fast ball as well as any man and give hand signals to be sure, and with the protection take balls in the dirt or fouls back to her chest protector. On the other hand she would have a low percentage of throwing people out at second base from home and therefore she would be run on by base stealers constantly even by slow pokes with bad wheels who are timed with calendars. Those occasional pick off moves to first or third will be less. And when the home team's 300 pound first baseman is chugging down from third base in the top of the ninth during a tie game with two outs already with a play at the plate, she had better be a huge person in her own right to have a chance of surviving. This post is longer than I expected so let me quickly sum up by saying the real life equivalent of a Slayer entering professional sports is a man was to try to compete in the LPGA or the WNBA. --->Hunter

2003-05-24 16:20:37-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-72943B.09035624052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> > > wrote: > > > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they play > > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played basketball > > >against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only because of a cowardice in > > >avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to play > > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you didn't > > deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, would that win > > be in any way meaningful? > > No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be meaningful to her > pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account. ---- I am rooting ferverently for Monica Sorensen to do well in the PGA events. BJ Sing along with Tiger Woods's comments will be remembered along with those who snubb Jackie Robinson in 1947. The differerence between her and a Slayer is that she is challenging herself to compete at a higher level. I have no qualms whatsoever in women trying to break into men's leagues. I would love to see women in major league baseball. I think they would be at least competent at that level. You will never see a woman break the season record for Home Runs-76 I think-but you may see a female 300 game winning pitcher, were finesse is more important than raw power. Female pitchers will do quite well in Major League Baseball, especially in the American League where you don't have to come to bat. That is not to say women wouldn't make good spray hitters for average. A lot of singles and doubles, fewer triples and homeruns. They will do quite well in the outfield, but will be challenged when they have to throw home on a sacrifice fly or a runner trying to streatch a double into a triple or start from first and trying to make it home. First base will be the second most likely position you will see a lot women in. A woman can dig a badly thrown ball from the third baseman, shortstop, second or the pitcher out of the dirt as well as any man. You would probably have a female base stealing league leader if not all time record holder since men and womens running speed is virtually identical giving the short 90 feet they have to run. Same thing for drag bunting less so for season leading triples and doubles. On the other hand, you will not see many or even any female catchers, the closes equvialent to a football player in baseball. I think a female catcher can catch a 100 mph fast ball as well as any man and give hand signals to be sure, and with the protection take balls in the dirt or fouls back to her chest protector. On the other hand she would have a low percentage of throwing people out at second base from home and therefore she would be run on by base stealers constantly even by slow pokes with bad wheels who are timed with calendars. Those occasional pick off moves to first or third will be less. And when the home team's 300 pound first baseman is chugging down from third base in the top of the ninth during a tie game with two outs already with a play at the plate, she had better be a huge person in her own right to have a chance of surviving. This post is longer than I expected so let me quickly sum up by saying the real life equivalent of a Slayer entering professional sports is a man was to try to compete in the LPGA or the WNBA. --->Hunter

2003-05-24 16:24:28+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >The idea of a player being banned for having too much ability or being too >dominant is ludicrous. Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis to win every single game without giving the opposing team any chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her level, right? And yes, it really is the same issue. Slayer powers would be harder to detect if the Slayers using them had an ounce of brains, but the issue is the same - just like steroid users or somebody who used magical spells, Slayers have an unfair advantage over other athletes. Unlike steroid users, it's not something they chose to do, but that doesn't change the fact that they do have an unfair advantage. And athletes in our world have been banned from competition for using perfecly legitimate drugs for legitimate reasons that were thought to have side effects that would give them an unfair advantage, so you can't even use "They're not deliberately looking for an edge" as an excuse. The interesting part of the question would be the Slayers who don't know they have supernatural powers. When they came into their full power, it'd be pretty obvious, but if there's a gradual ramping up of ability they might just think they're the next Mia Hamm, or whoever. When they realized it went way beyond that, what would they do? Pete

2003-05-24 16:24:28+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >The idea of a player being banned for having too much ability or being too >dominant is ludicrous. Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis to win every single game without giving the opposing team any chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her level, right? And yes, it really is the same issue. Slayer powers would be harder to detect if the Slayers using them had an ounce of brains, but the issue is the same - just like steroid users or somebody who used magical spells, Slayers have an unfair advantage over other athletes. Unlike steroid users, it's not something they chose to do, but that doesn't change the fact that they do have an unfair advantage. And athletes in our world have been banned from competition for using perfecly legitimate drugs for legitimate reasons that were thought to have side effects that would give them an unfair advantage, so you can't even use "They're not deliberately looking for an edge" as an excuse. The interesting part of the question would be the Slayers who don't know they have supernatural powers. When they came into their full power, it'd be pretty obvious, but if there's a gradual ramping up of ability they might just think they're the next Mia Hamm, or whoever. When they realized it went way beyond that, what would they do? Pete

2003-05-24 16:25:48+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net> wrote: >On 24 May 2003 14:43:05 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >>And it's not like modern science couldn't detect Slayers from >>normal humans if they really put their minds to it. I >>guarantee a more or less reliable Slayer-detector would pop >>up if the millions of dollars in college and professional >>sports got involved. >Give 'em a nice small laceration in an unnoticeable spot, and watch it >over the next few days. If it vanishes in less than a week, it's a >Slayer. Good one, though I imagine someone would sue. "You want to cut my daughter? You go to hell!" It'd be easier to manage with adult Slayers. Pete

2003-05-24 16:25:48+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net> wrote: >On 24 May 2003 14:43:05 GMT, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >>And it's not like modern science couldn't detect Slayers from >>normal humans if they really put their minds to it. I >>guarantee a more or less reliable Slayer-detector would pop >>up if the millions of dollars in college and professional >>sports got involved. >Give 'em a nice small laceration in an unnoticeable spot, and watch it >over the next few days. If it vanishes in less than a week, it's a >Slayer. Good one, though I imagine someone would sue. "You want to cut my daughter? You go to hell!" It'd be easier to manage with adult Slayers. Pete

2003-05-24 16:27:48+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Mathew R. Ignash <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote: >Well, first of all, in a world where "super powers" are not believed in by the >general public, someone would have to establish somehow that al these suddenly >strong women were anything but just naturally strong, and they make a rule >against them playing. But teenaged girls breaking the world records in half the sports in existence would prove that pretty easily. Especially if just one Slayer demonstrated her full strength. Speed and endurance and reflexes are hard to judge, but the human body just can't lift as much weight as a Slayer can. >Although a "all slayer" or "all supernatural" sporting event doessound nice. >Slayers, battle demons, witches, all on the field! WOO and HOO! I think that's what it would come to, eventually. I'm sure Vince McMahon would be salivating over the possibility of signing these girls up. Pete

2003-05-24 16:27:48+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Mathew R. Ignash <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote: >Well, first of all, in a world where "super powers" are not believed in by the >general public, someone would have to establish somehow that al these suddenly >strong women were anything but just naturally strong, and they make a rule >against them playing. But teenaged girls breaking the world records in half the sports in existence would prove that pretty easily. Especially if just one Slayer demonstrated her full strength. Speed and endurance and reflexes are hard to judge, but the human body just can't lift as much weight as a Slayer can. >Although a "all slayer" or "all supernatural" sporting event doessound nice. >Slayers, battle demons, witches, all on the field! WOO and HOO! I think that's what it would come to, eventually. I'm sure Vince McMahon would be salivating over the possibility of signing these girls up. Pete

2003-05-24 17:43:17+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Dan Solomon <dansolo@attbi.com>)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in news:BTR1702-4B029F.09010524052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com: > In article <32f29bdf.0305240216.8ffb1bf@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > >> But You have to understand that they don't even have to train to make >> it on to the team. There natural ability, and I mean natural, not >> honed by training, just walk in off the street, is miles above other. > > Some real athletes are like that. Michael Jordan's natural ability > didn't come from training. The only reason that guy needed to go to > practice was to learn how the team works as a whole and so would a > Slayer in the same position. > > The test of athletics is ability, not how many hours of training it > took you to get there. > While it is true that Michael Jordan has tremendous natural ability, the reason that he was so much better than everyone else was his dedication to training. There were aspects of his game that he improved through training. As an example, early on he was unable to consistantly hit the outside shot, but when he was no longer able to simple drive to the basket every time, he worked to improve that aspect of his game. He eventually became an excellent outside shooter. -- Dan Solomon

2003-05-24 17:43:17+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Dan Solomon <dansolo@attbi.com>)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in news:BTR1702-4B029F.09010524052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com: > In article <32f29bdf.0305240216.8ffb1bf@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > >> But You have to understand that they don't even have to train to make >> it on to the team. There natural ability, and I mean natural, not >> honed by training, just walk in off the street, is miles above other. > > Some real athletes are like that. Michael Jordan's natural ability > didn't come from training. The only reason that guy needed to go to > practice was to learn how the team works as a whole and so would a > Slayer in the same position. > > The test of athletics is ability, not how many hours of training it > took you to get there. > While it is true that Michael Jordan has tremendous natural ability, the reason that he was so much better than everyone else was his dedication to training. There were aspects of his game that he improved through training. As an example, early on he was unable to consistantly hit the outside shot, but when he was no longer able to simple drive to the basket every time, he worked to improve that aspect of his game. He eventually became an excellent outside shooter. -- Dan Solomon

2003-05-24 18:59:52-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305241416.3e2c2ba4@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > --- > Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by > fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. So anyone who breaks a record beyond what you think they should be able to is automatically disqualified? > > It has been said, but not on the show I think, that Buffy can run at > 40 mph. At any rate, as we saw in "Chosen" she can match speed with a > school bus which I presume was going flat out to escape the sink hole > that was swallowing Sunnydale (but I don't think Robin got it out of > first gear), while she was leaping from roof top to roof top. She was > not running as efficiently as she would on level ground. So just like > with weight lifting she would destroy all the running records: 100 > meter, 200 meter 600 meter et. al; hurdles of all flavors, broad jump, > high jump etc. > > Any normal talented and exceptional person could beat those records by > a few pounds or a few seconds, but a Slayer will blow them away. Not necessarily. If you were to implement these kinds of "rules", a Slayer could still compete and win as long as she's smart enough not to overdo it. If she makes sure she wins by only a little, she still wins every time, takes home the gold, and no one is any the wiser. > That is what I mean by human perameters. And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the taking, what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 mph. All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next fastest girl and she wins every time.

2003-05-24 18:59:52-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305241416.3e2c2ba4@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > --- > Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by > fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. So anyone who breaks a record beyond what you think they should be able to is automatically disqualified? > > It has been said, but not on the show I think, that Buffy can run at > 40 mph. At any rate, as we saw in "Chosen" she can match speed with a > school bus which I presume was going flat out to escape the sink hole > that was swallowing Sunnydale (but I don't think Robin got it out of > first gear), while she was leaping from roof top to roof top. She was > not running as efficiently as she would on level ground. So just like > with weight lifting she would destroy all the running records: 100 > meter, 200 meter 600 meter et. al; hurdles of all flavors, broad jump, > high jump etc. > > Any normal talented and exceptional person could beat those records by > a few pounds or a few seconds, but a Slayer will blow them away. Not necessarily. If you were to implement these kinds of "rules", a Slayer could still compete and win as long as she's smart enough not to overdo it. If she makes sure she wins by only a little, she still wins every time, takes home the gold, and no one is any the wiser. > That is what I mean by human perameters. And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the taking, what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 mph. All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next fastest girl and she wins every time.

2003-05-24 19:03:16-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bao0dp$807$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net> wrote: > >On Sat, 24 May 2003 09:05:19 -0500, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > >wrote: > > >>> No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human > >>> specifications. > >> > >>And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > > >Standing vertical leap of only a foot or two, rather than twelve? > > Sounds good to me. If nothing else, an unknown athlete who > starts breaking world records right and left would be put > on the "Hmmm, maybe..." list. And then what? You can test her up and down but this isn't like steroids. There's no medical test for Slayerness. You can say "Hmmm, maybe..." all you want but you can't just kick someone out of a competition because you're suspicious. > And it's not like modern science couldn't detect Slayers from > normal humans if they really put their minds to it. I > guarantee a more or less reliable Slayer-detector would pop > up if the millions of dollars in college and professional > sports got involved. I don't see how. This is mystical, not scientific. > After THAT, the > Slayers wouldn't be allowed to compete against normal > humans anymore, Again, how would you stop them? Most of these girls themselves don't even know they are Slayers. How would the WNBA? > It's quite possible that normal organized sports would > lose their appeal. Who wants to see Michael Jordan play > ball when there's an entire league full of women who can > outperform him on the best day of his life? I think you're vastly overestimating the number of potentials who were called. I can't imagine it's any more than a few hundred world-wide. Certainly not enough to make up a professional sports league in North America.

2003-05-24 19:03:16-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bao0dp$807$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net> wrote: > >On Sat, 24 May 2003 09:05:19 -0500, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> > >wrote: > > >>> No, but the high school superstars still fall within normal human > >>> specifications. > >> > >>And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > > >Standing vertical leap of only a foot or two, rather than twelve? > > Sounds good to me. If nothing else, an unknown athlete who > starts breaking world records right and left would be put > on the "Hmmm, maybe..." list. And then what? You can test her up and down but this isn't like steroids. There's no medical test for Slayerness. You can say "Hmmm, maybe..." all you want but you can't just kick someone out of a competition because you're suspicious. > And it's not like modern science couldn't detect Slayers from > normal humans if they really put their minds to it. I > guarantee a more or less reliable Slayer-detector would pop > up if the millions of dollars in college and professional > sports got involved. I don't see how. This is mystical, not scientific. > After THAT, the > Slayers wouldn't be allowed to compete against normal > humans anymore, Again, how would you stop them? Most of these girls themselves don't even know they are Slayers. How would the WNBA? > It's quite possible that normal organized sports would > lose their appeal. Who wants to see Michael Jordan play > ball when there's an entire league full of women who can > outperform him on the best day of his life? I think you're vastly overestimating the number of potentials who were called. I can't imagine it's any more than a few hundred world-wide. Certainly not enough to make up a professional sports league in North America.

2003-05-24 19:06:00-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305241520.1179f39b@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-72943B.09035624052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim > > > <kim5@erols.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they play > > > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played > > > >basketball against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only because of a > > > >cowardice in avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > > > > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to play > > > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you > > > didn't deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, would that > > > win be in any way meaningful? > > > > No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be meaningful to her > > pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account. > ---- > I am rooting ferverently for Monica Sorensen to do well in the PGA > events. Don't you mean Annika Sorenstam? > This post is longer than I expected so let me quickly sum up by saying > the real life equivalent of a Slayer entering professional sports is a > man was to try to compete in the LPGA or the WNBA. And if Annika Sorenstam is allowed to play in the PGA, then a man should be allowed to compete in the LPGA. The argument with Sorenstam is that she should be allowed to play if she has the ability to make the cut. I can't imagine why the same shouldn't be true of a man who wants a chance at the big money prizes in the LPGA. If he can make the cut, he should be allowed to play.

2003-05-24 19:06:00-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305241520.1179f39b@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-72943B.09035624052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim > > > <kim5@erols.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they play > > > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played > > > >basketball against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only because of a > > > >cowardice in avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > > > > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to play > > > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you > > > didn't deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, would that > > > win be in any way meaningful? > > > > No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be meaningful to her > > pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account. > ---- > I am rooting ferverently for Monica Sorensen to do well in the PGA > events. Don't you mean Annika Sorenstam? > This post is longer than I expected so let me quickly sum up by saying > the real life equivalent of a Slayer entering professional sports is a > man was to try to compete in the LPGA or the WNBA. And if Annika Sorenstam is allowed to play in the PGA, then a man should be allowed to compete in the LPGA. The argument with Sorenstam is that she should be allowed to play if she has the ability to make the cut. I can't imagine why the same shouldn't be true of a man who wants a chance at the big money prizes in the LPGA. If he can make the cut, he should be allowed to play.

2003-05-24 19:08:20-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305241422.6bfd3f5c@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-7033B7.09024824052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240158.27fdfe4a@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > > > news:<220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>... > > > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee > > > > <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > > > > > If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > > > > > longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just > > > > > cheating. > > > > > > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > > > stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > > > > > someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > > > > So all those major league baseball players who are so much better > > > > at it than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > > > > unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > > > ---- > > > Literally they are not in the same league. Your baseball superstars > > > maybe stronger and more skillfull than Joe Average, but they still > > > fall well within human peramatures. Buffy can literally lift a ton if > > > my guesstimates are right. What do you think she would do to a > > > baseball if she hits it? Do you really want to take a clothes line > > > line drive to third if you are a third baseman? I the hell would not. > > > But that would be an accident since with both her slayer strength and > > > reflexes and ability to calculate the angle of a fast moving > > > projectile well enough to catch an arrow in mid air she would be > > > hitting a home run every time she came up to bat; except for the > > > accidental line drives to third or, horrors, back to the pitcher. > > > Sorry, you will have to ban The Slayers from normal human baseball, > > > starting with that 12 year old potential in little Leage who got her > > > powers while up to bat. > > > > How do you (or even the girls themselves) know they are Slayers? How > > will you test for Slayerness? If you're going to start banning people, > > these are questions you have to answer. > --- > How about being able to lift 500 ponds with one hand? What if they say they can't? I mean, here you are saying you can't play in this league or win any of this money if you can lift 500 lbs with one hand. So the girl (who very much wants a chance at that money) walks up to the barbell, bends down, puts on a big show of straining and grunting and then steps back and says, "I can't lift it." Even though she very much could if she really tried. Now what?

2003-05-24 19:08:20-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305241422.6bfd3f5c@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-7033B7.09024824052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240158.27fdfe4a@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > > > news:<220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>... > > > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee > > > > <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > > > > > If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > > > > > longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just > > > > > cheating. > > > > > > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > > > stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > > > > > someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > > > > So all those major league baseball players who are so much better > > > > at it than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > > > > unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > > > ---- > > > Literally they are not in the same league. Your baseball superstars > > > maybe stronger and more skillfull than Joe Average, but they still > > > fall well within human peramatures. Buffy can literally lift a ton if > > > my guesstimates are right. What do you think she would do to a > > > baseball if she hits it? Do you really want to take a clothes line > > > line drive to third if you are a third baseman? I the hell would not. > > > But that would be an accident since with both her slayer strength and > > > reflexes and ability to calculate the angle of a fast moving > > > projectile well enough to catch an arrow in mid air she would be > > > hitting a home run every time she came up to bat; except for the > > > accidental line drives to third or, horrors, back to the pitcher. > > > Sorry, you will have to ban The Slayers from normal human baseball, > > > starting with that 12 year old potential in little Leage who got her > > > powers while up to bat. > > > > How do you (or even the girls themselves) know they are Slayers? How > > will you test for Slayerness? If you're going to start banning people, > > these are questions you have to answer. > --- > How about being able to lift 500 ponds with one hand? What if they say they can't? I mean, here you are saying you can't play in this league or win any of this money if you can lift 500 lbs with one hand. So the girl (who very much wants a chance at that money) walks up to the barbell, bends down, puts on a big show of straining and grunting and then steps back and says, "I can't lift it." Even though she very much could if she really tried. Now what?

2003-05-24 19:11:00-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305241434.714dd088@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-4B029F.09010524052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240216.8ffb1bf@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > news:<BTR1702-8624A6.17430122052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that > > > > > Superboy > > > > > couldn't play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark > > > > > didn't have all > > > > > his powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong > > > > > human.) > > > > > If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort > > > > > no > > > > > longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is > > > > > just cheating. > > > > > > > > Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's > > > > not > > > > cheating in my opinion. > > > --- > > > It is not cheating, but it is simply being outclass by an absurd > > > length. > > > > So be it. Tiger Woods often outclasses his competition by an absurd > > length. No one's suggesting banning him from golf. > ---- > It is not even the same thing! Someone could come along and beat > Tiger. Even Tiger Woods have bad days. Tiger Woods will get old and > loose ability. Buffy on the other hand even if she looses 75% of her > powers across the board by the time she is 90 years old will still be > able to play NFL Football to say nothing of Golf. You're only suggesting a difference in degree, not kind. > > > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > > > stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life > > > > > (unless someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > > > > It's not like everyone knows they are Slayers. Not sure how they'd > > > > be kicked out of sports if they wanted to play. In fact, once a few > > > > basketball coaches saw what these girls could do, they'd be > > > > salivating to sign them up, not kick them out. > > > ---- > > > But You have to understand that they don't even have to train to make > > > it on to the team. There natural ability, and I mean natural, not > > > honed by training, just walk in off the street, is miles above other. > > > > Some real athletes are like that. Michael Jordan's natural ability > > didn't come from training. The only reason that guy needed to go to > > practice was to learn how the team works as a whole and so would a > > Slayer in the same position. > > > > The test of athletics is ability, not how many hours of training it > > took you to get there. > --- > You are just not getting it. I know it sounds all good to have equal > opertunity in sports and no one should be barred but a Slayer's > abilities are too far above even a Michael Jordan as not to be even > compared with. Michael got old at 40 and became a slightly above > average player in his last season (or so I hear since I don't follow > basketball) as in Golf Buffy, Rona, Faith, Kennedy, Amanda if she > lived could out play a 1993 era Micheal Jordan in pro ball in their > '90s. So if Jordan didn't lose his ability by the time he reached 40, if he was still playing at the same level, you'd be suggesting he be banned from basketball by now?

2003-05-24 19:11:00-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305241434.714dd088@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-4B029F.09010524052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240216.8ffb1bf@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > news:<BTR1702-8624A6.17430122052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that > > > > > Superboy > > > > > couldn't play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark > > > > > didn't have all > > > > > his powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong > > > > > human.) > > > > > If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort > > > > > no > > > > > longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is > > > > > just cheating. > > > > > > > > Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's > > > > not > > > > cheating in my opinion. > > > --- > > > It is not cheating, but it is simply being outclass by an absurd > > > length. > > > > So be it. Tiger Woods often outclasses his competition by an absurd > > length. No one's suggesting banning him from golf. > ---- > It is not even the same thing! Someone could come along and beat > Tiger. Even Tiger Woods have bad days. Tiger Woods will get old and > loose ability. Buffy on the other hand even if she looses 75% of her > powers across the board by the time she is 90 years old will still be > able to play NFL Football to say nothing of Golf. You're only suggesting a difference in degree, not kind. > > > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > > > stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life > > > > > (unless someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > > > > It's not like everyone knows they are Slayers. Not sure how they'd > > > > be kicked out of sports if they wanted to play. In fact, once a few > > > > basketball coaches saw what these girls could do, they'd be > > > > salivating to sign them up, not kick them out. > > > ---- > > > But You have to understand that they don't even have to train to make > > > it on to the team. There natural ability, and I mean natural, not > > > honed by training, just walk in off the street, is miles above other. > > > > Some real athletes are like that. Michael Jordan's natural ability > > didn't come from training. The only reason that guy needed to go to > > practice was to learn how the team works as a whole and so would a > > Slayer in the same position. > > > > The test of athletics is ability, not how many hours of training it > > took you to get there. > --- > You are just not getting it. I know it sounds all good to have equal > opertunity in sports and no one should be barred but a Slayer's > abilities are too far above even a Michael Jordan as not to be even > compared with. Michael got old at 40 and became a slightly above > average player in his last season (or so I hear since I don't follow > basketball) as in Golf Buffy, Rona, Faith, Kennedy, Amanda if she > lived could out play a 1993 era Micheal Jordan in pro ball in their > '90s. So if Jordan didn't lose his ability by the time he reached 40, if he was still playing at the same level, you'd be suggesting he be banned from basketball by now?

2003-05-24 21:08:31-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <baodoh$h5j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > level, right? > > The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > She then would be cheating. Which rule in basketball forbids telekinesis?

2003-05-24 21:08:31-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <baodoh$h5j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > level, right? > > The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > She then would be cheating. Which rule in basketball forbids telekinesis?

2003-05-24 22:25:25-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the taking, > what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 mph. > All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > fastest girl and she wins every time. And she may even come in second once or twice in some of the less important races. If the top two in each of the qualifying heats get through to the final, she can let someone else win the qualifier. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-24 22:25:25-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the taking, > what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 mph. > All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > fastest girl and she wins every time. And she may even come in second once or twice in some of the less important races. If the top two in each of the qualifying heats get through to the final, she can let someone else win the qualifier. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-24 23:37:58+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >news:bao6bs$b66$1@news3.bu.edu... >> Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about >> Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external measures to >enhance their game. So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? >> reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis >> to win every single game without giving the opposing team any >> chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her >> level, right? >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. >She then would be cheating. Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are not allowed. >> And yes, it really is the same issue. Slayer powers would be >> harder to detect if the Slayers using them had an ounce of >> brains, but the issue is the same - just like steroid users >> or somebody who used magical spells, Slayers have an unfair >> advantage over other athletes. Unlike steroid users, it's not >> something they chose to do, but that doesn't change the fact >> that they do have an unfair advantage. And athletes in our >> world have been banned from competition for using perfecly >> legitimate drugs for legitimate reasons that were thought to >> have side effects that would give them an unfair advantage, >> so you can't even use "They're not deliberately looking for >> an edge" as an excuse. >Most of the time, it's because those side effects have dangerous >consequences in the long run. Believe me, the welfare of the players is NOT the foremost reason various drugs are outlawed in professional sports. >If you can give me any example of an athlete being disqualified for just >being naturally too good, then you have a case. Slayers are not naturally that powerful, though. Magic and demonic powers have made them that way. If a so-so basketball player made a deal with the devil (or a devil, in the Buffy-verse) and suddenly became an amazing player, would you call that natural talent? Pete

2003-05-24 23:37:58+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >news:bao6bs$b66$1@news3.bu.edu... >> Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about >> Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external measures to >enhance their game. So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? >> reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis >> to win every single game without giving the opposing team any >> chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her >> level, right? >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. >She then would be cheating. Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are not allowed. >> And yes, it really is the same issue. Slayer powers would be >> harder to detect if the Slayers using them had an ounce of >> brains, but the issue is the same - just like steroid users >> or somebody who used magical spells, Slayers have an unfair >> advantage over other athletes. Unlike steroid users, it's not >> something they chose to do, but that doesn't change the fact >> that they do have an unfair advantage. And athletes in our >> world have been banned from competition for using perfecly >> legitimate drugs for legitimate reasons that were thought to >> have side effects that would give them an unfair advantage, >> so you can't even use "They're not deliberately looking for >> an edge" as an excuse. >Most of the time, it's because those side effects have dangerous >consequences in the long run. Believe me, the welfare of the players is NOT the foremost reason various drugs are outlawed in professional sports. >If you can give me any example of an athlete being disqualified for just >being naturally too good, then you have a case. Slayers are not naturally that powerful, though. Magic and demonic powers have made them that way. If a so-so basketball player made a deal with the devil (or a devil, in the Buffy-verse) and suddenly became an amazing player, would you call that natural talent? Pete

2003-05-24 23:45:43-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-9B9382.19110024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305241434.714dd088@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-4B029F.09010524052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240216.8ffb1bf@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > > news:<BTR1702-8624A6.17430122052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that > > > > > > Superboy > > > > > > couldn't play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark > > > > > > didn't have all > > > > > > his powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong > > > > > > human.) > > > > > > If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort > > > > > > no > > > > > > longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is > > > > > > just cheating. > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's > > > > > not > > > > > cheating in my opinion. > > > > --- > > > > It is not cheating, but it is simply being outclass by an absurd > > > > length. > > > > > > So be it. Tiger Woods often outclasses his competition by an absurd > > > length. No one's suggesting banning him from golf. > > ---- > > It is not even the same thing! Someone could come along and beat > > Tiger. Even Tiger Woods have bad days. Tiger Woods will get old and > > loose ability. Buffy on the other hand even if she looses 75% of her > > powers across the board by the time she is 90 years old will still be > > able to play NFL Football to say nothing of Golf. > > You're only suggesting a difference in degree, not kind. ---- And that is not significant? It is to a point were the difference in degree IS a difference in kind. > > > > > > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > > > > stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life > > > > > > (unless someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > > > > > > It's not like everyone knows they are Slayers. Not sure how they'd > > > > > be kicked out of sports if they wanted to play. In fact, once a few > > > > > basketball coaches saw what these girls could do, they'd be > > > > > salivating to sign them up, not kick them out. > > > > ---- > > > > But You have to understand that they don't even have to train to make > > > > it on to the team. There natural ability, and I mean natural, not > > > > honed by training, just walk in off the street, is miles above other. > > > > > > Some real athletes are like that. Michael Jordan's natural ability > > > didn't come from training. The only reason that guy needed to go to > > > practice was to learn how the team works as a whole and so would a > > > Slayer in the same position. > > > > > > The test of athletics is ability, not how many hours of training it > > > took you to get there. > > --- > > You are just not getting it. I know it sounds all good to have equal > > opertunity in sports and no one should be barred but a Slayer's > > abilities are too far above even a Michael Jordan as not to be even > > compared with. Michael got old at 40 and became a slightly above > > average player in his last season (or so I hear since I don't follow > > basketball) as in Golf Buffy, Rona, Faith, Kennedy, Amanda if she > > lived could out play a 1993 era Micheal Jordan in pro ball in their > > '90s. > > So if Jordan didn't lose his ability by the time he reached 40, if he > was still playing at the same level, you'd be suggesting he be banned > from basketball by now? ---- Are you suffering from Smaug69 disease? C'mon! If Micheal Jordan did not loose his ability to play high level B-ball he would be more of a phenom than he was and no I will not ban him. I put him up to show that while enormously talented, his skills will wane and his skills were not outside human norms. If you cannot grasp the difference between MJ and say Kennedy the Vampire Slayer abilities then I am wasting my time. ----->Hunter

2003-05-24 23:45:43-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-9B9382.19110024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305241434.714dd088@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-4B029F.09010524052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240216.8ffb1bf@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > > news:<BTR1702-8624A6.17430122052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > They can't play college football, for the same reason that > > > > > > Superboy > > > > > > couldn't play sports. (Ignoring the Byrne retcons where Clark > > > > > > didn't have all > > > > > > his powers in high school anyway and just seemed to be a strong > > > > > > human.) > > > > > > If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort > > > > > > no > > > > > > longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is > > > > > > just cheating. > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion. As long as you're using the abilities you have, it's > > > > > not > > > > > cheating in my opinion. > > > > --- > > > > It is not cheating, but it is simply being outclass by an absurd > > > > length. > > > > > > So be it. Tiger Woods often outclasses his competition by an absurd > > > length. No one's suggesting banning him from golf. > > ---- > > It is not even the same thing! Someone could come along and beat > > Tiger. Even Tiger Woods have bad days. Tiger Woods will get old and > > loose ability. Buffy on the other hand even if she looses 75% of her > > powers across the board by the time she is 90 years old will still be > > able to play NFL Football to say nothing of Golf. > > You're only suggesting a difference in degree, not kind. ---- And that is not significant? It is to a point were the difference in degree IS a difference in kind. > > > > > > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > > > > stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life > > > > > > (unless someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > > > > > > It's not like everyone knows they are Slayers. Not sure how they'd > > > > > be kicked out of sports if they wanted to play. In fact, once a few > > > > > basketball coaches saw what these girls could do, they'd be > > > > > salivating to sign them up, not kick them out. > > > > ---- > > > > But You have to understand that they don't even have to train to make > > > > it on to the team. There natural ability, and I mean natural, not > > > > honed by training, just walk in off the street, is miles above other. > > > > > > Some real athletes are like that. Michael Jordan's natural ability > > > didn't come from training. The only reason that guy needed to go to > > > practice was to learn how the team works as a whole and so would a > > > Slayer in the same position. > > > > > > The test of athletics is ability, not how many hours of training it > > > took you to get there. > > --- > > You are just not getting it. I know it sounds all good to have equal > > opertunity in sports and no one should be barred but a Slayer's > > abilities are too far above even a Michael Jordan as not to be even > > compared with. Michael got old at 40 and became a slightly above > > average player in his last season (or so I hear since I don't follow > > basketball) as in Golf Buffy, Rona, Faith, Kennedy, Amanda if she > > lived could out play a 1993 era Micheal Jordan in pro ball in their > > '90s. > > So if Jordan didn't lose his ability by the time he reached 40, if he > was still playing at the same level, you'd be suggesting he be banned > from basketball by now? ---- Are you suffering from Smaug69 disease? C'mon! If Micheal Jordan did not loose his ability to play high level B-ball he would be more of a phenom than he was and no I will not ban him. I put him up to show that while enormously talented, his skills will wane and his skills were not outside human norms. If you cannot grasp the difference between MJ and say Kennedy the Vampire Slayer abilities then I am wasting my time. ----->Hunter

2003-05-24 23:54:51-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-C264D3.19060024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305241520.1179f39b@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-72943B.09035624052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim > > > > <kim5@erols.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they play > > > > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played > > > > >basketball against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only because of a > > > > >cowardice in avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > > > > > > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to play > > > > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you > > > > didn't deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, would that > > > > win be in any way meaningful? > > > > > > No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be meaningful to her > > > pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account. > > ---- > > I am rooting ferverently for Monica Sorensen to do well in the PGA > > events. > > Don't you mean Annika Sorenstam? ---- I stand corrected. > > > This post is longer than I expected so let me quickly sum up by saying > > the real life equivalent of a Slayer entering professional sports is a > > man was to try to compete in the LPGA or the WNBA. > > And if Annika Sorenstam is allowed to play in the PGA, then a man should > be allowed to compete in the LPGA. --- No. The difference in ability is too much. I will gladly let women play with the men if she believes she could hang with and even beat the men in all sports including football (American/Canadian style as well as Soccer and Rugby); I am willing to let the Williams sisters give it a shot in the men's divison of Tennis but not the other way. > > The argument with Sorenstam is that she should be allowed to play if she > has the ability to make the cut. I can't imagine why the same shouldn't > be true of a man who wants a chance at the big money prizes in the LPGA. > If he can make the cut, he should be allowed to play. --- Because the chances are great that not only he will make the cut, he will dominate. It will be kind of silly if the top ten LPGA golfers were all men or even just the top three wouldn't it? Yes, I fully admit it is discrimatory. A little discrimination is a good thing in this case. ---->Hunter

2003-05-24 23:54:51-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-C264D3.19060024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305241520.1179f39b@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-72943B.09035624052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim > > > > <kim5@erols.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they play > > > > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played > > > > >basketball against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only because of a > > > > >cowardice in avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > > > > > > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to play > > > > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you > > > > didn't deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, would that > > > > win be in any way meaningful? > > > > > > No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be meaningful to her > > > pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account. > > ---- > > I am rooting ferverently for Monica Sorensen to do well in the PGA > > events. > > Don't you mean Annika Sorenstam? ---- I stand corrected. > > > This post is longer than I expected so let me quickly sum up by saying > > the real life equivalent of a Slayer entering professional sports is a > > man was to try to compete in the LPGA or the WNBA. > > And if Annika Sorenstam is allowed to play in the PGA, then a man should > be allowed to compete in the LPGA. --- No. The difference in ability is too much. I will gladly let women play with the men if she believes she could hang with and even beat the men in all sports including football (American/Canadian style as well as Soccer and Rugby); I am willing to let the Williams sisters give it a shot in the men's divison of Tennis but not the other way. > > The argument with Sorenstam is that she should be allowed to play if she > has the ability to make the cut. I can't imagine why the same shouldn't > be true of a man who wants a chance at the big money prizes in the LPGA. > If he can make the cut, he should be allowed to play. --- Because the chances are great that not only he will make the cut, he will dominate. It will be kind of silly if the top ten LPGA golfers were all men or even just the top three wouldn't it? Yes, I fully admit it is discrimatory. A little discrimination is a good thing in this case. ---->Hunter

2003-05-25 00:02:21-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message news:<240520032225256600%dsample@synapse.net>... > In article <BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, BTR1701 > <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the taking, > > what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 mph. > > All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > > fastest girl and she wins every time. > > And she may even come in second once or twice in some of the less > important races. If the top two in each of the qualifying heats get > through to the final, she can let someone else win the qualifier. --- What is wrong with you two? I am not saying a Slayer could not get away with playing in the Majors or top level amatures. Sure she can fake it. But why would she do it? If she did she will have no self respect, it would be dishonest and dishonorable and unfair to her "competators"; and it would be stealing from others by her getting endorsements and winning prize money under false pretenses. She would be actually a worst sneak than someone taking anabolic steroids. ---->Hunter

2003-05-25 00:02:21-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message news:<240520032225256600%dsample@synapse.net>... > In article <BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, BTR1701 > <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the taking, > > what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 mph. > > All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > > fastest girl and she wins every time. > > And she may even come in second once or twice in some of the less > important races. If the top two in each of the qualifying heats get > through to the final, she can let someone else win the qualifier. --- What is wrong with you two? I am not saying a Slayer could not get away with playing in the Majors or top level amatures. Sure she can fake it. But why would she do it? If she did she will have no self respect, it would be dishonest and dishonorable and unfair to her "competators"; and it would be stealing from others by her getting endorsements and winning prize money under false pretenses. She would be actually a worst sneak than someone taking anabolic steroids. ---->Hunter

2003-05-25 00:19:47-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305241416.3e2c2ba4@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > > --- > > Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by > > fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. > > So anyone who breaks a record beyond what you think they should be able > to is automatically disqualified? ---- If it is blown away by 1500 pounds yes. If it is blown away by 300 pounds yes. By 50 pounds? No, but he would be tested for performance enhancement drugs from here to next sunday. Are you pulling my leg or you really can't see a difference? > > > > > It has been said, but not on the show I think, that Buffy can run at > > 40 mph. At any rate, as we saw in "Chosen" she can match speed with a > > school bus which I presume was going flat out to escape the sink hole > > that was swallowing Sunnydale (but I don't think Robin got it out of > > first gear), while she was leaping from roof top to roof top. She was > > not running as efficiently as she would on level ground. So just like > > with weight lifting she would destroy all the running records: 100 > > meter, 200 meter 600 meter et. al; hurdles of all flavors, broad jump, > > high jump etc. > > > > Any normal talented and exceptional person could beat those records by > > a few pounds or a few seconds, but a Slayer will blow them away. > > Not necessarily. If you were to implement these kinds of "rules", a > Slayer could still compete and win as long as she's smart enough not to > overdo it. If she makes sure she wins by only a little, she still wins > every time, takes home the gold, and no one is any the wiser. > > > That is what I mean by human perameters. > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the taking, > what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 mph. > All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > fastest girl and she wins every time. ---- You are saying for her to sneak around. That would be dishonerable.Sure she could get away with it but would you admire someone like that who is stealing from a person who is breaking his or her neck trying to shave off another quarter of a second of their time? Those millions of dollars in endorsements would be stolen. For heaven's sake, we made a big fuss a couple of years ago over a little leaguer that was two years two old for the game. Why? Because there is usually a big physical difference between 14 and 12, Therefore it would be unfair to the 12 year olds for someone of that age to play with them. A Slayer who plays in the majors of any sport would be the equivalent of a 20 year old, never mind 14 year old playing little league. And he or she would be lying scum if she could get away with it because of her size. Odds are great that despite her equivalent size, he or she would be much stronger than the average 12 years old because of musclature development. ---->Hunter

2003-05-25 00:19:47-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305241416.3e2c2ba4@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > > --- > > Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by > > fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. > > So anyone who breaks a record beyond what you think they should be able > to is automatically disqualified? ---- If it is blown away by 1500 pounds yes. If it is blown away by 300 pounds yes. By 50 pounds? No, but he would be tested for performance enhancement drugs from here to next sunday. Are you pulling my leg or you really can't see a difference? > > > > > It has been said, but not on the show I think, that Buffy can run at > > 40 mph. At any rate, as we saw in "Chosen" she can match speed with a > > school bus which I presume was going flat out to escape the sink hole > > that was swallowing Sunnydale (but I don't think Robin got it out of > > first gear), while she was leaping from roof top to roof top. She was > > not running as efficiently as she would on level ground. So just like > > with weight lifting she would destroy all the running records: 100 > > meter, 200 meter 600 meter et. al; hurdles of all flavors, broad jump, > > high jump etc. > > > > Any normal talented and exceptional person could beat those records by > > a few pounds or a few seconds, but a Slayer will blow them away. > > Not necessarily. If you were to implement these kinds of "rules", a > Slayer could still compete and win as long as she's smart enough not to > overdo it. If she makes sure she wins by only a little, she still wins > every time, takes home the gold, and no one is any the wiser. > > > That is what I mean by human perameters. > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the taking, > what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 mph. > All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > fastest girl and she wins every time. ---- You are saying for her to sneak around. That would be dishonerable.Sure she could get away with it but would you admire someone like that who is stealing from a person who is breaking his or her neck trying to shave off another quarter of a second of their time? Those millions of dollars in endorsements would be stolen. For heaven's sake, we made a big fuss a couple of years ago over a little leaguer that was two years two old for the game. Why? Because there is usually a big physical difference between 14 and 12, Therefore it would be unfair to the 12 year olds for someone of that age to play with them. A Slayer who plays in the majors of any sport would be the equivalent of a 20 year old, never mind 14 year old playing little league. And he or she would be lying scum if she could get away with it because of her size. Odds are great that despite her equivalent size, he or she would be much stronger than the average 12 years old because of musclature development. ---->Hunter

2003-05-25 00:25:28+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <bao0dp$807$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >> forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net> wrote: >> >Standing vertical leap of only a foot or two, rather than twelve? >> >> Sounds good to me. If nothing else, an unknown athlete who >> starts breaking world records right and left would be put >> on the "Hmmm, maybe..." list. >And then what? You can test her up and down but this isn't like >steroids. There's no medical test for Slayerness. But there will be, if a need for one arises. >You can say "Hmmm, maybe..." all you want but you can't just kick >someone out of a competition because you're suspicious. Actually, the people who run the competitions most likely can do just that. They'd come up with a better sounding justification for public consumption, of course. >> And it's not like modern science couldn't detect Slayers from >> normal humans if they really put their minds to it. I >> guarantee a more or less reliable Slayer-detector would pop >> up if the millions of dollars in college and professional >> sports got involved. >I don't see how. This is mystical, not scientific. And there are mystical people who are willing to do things for money. And I for one am not at all convinced that science can't detect magical energy and effects. It hasn't ever looked yet, after all. >> After THAT, the >> Slayers wouldn't be allowed to compete against normal >> humans anymore, >Again, how would you stop them? Most of these girls themselves don't >even know they are Slayers. How would the WNBA? A lot of Slayers could probably pass if they don't exert themselves too hard. It all depends on whether a reliable test could be concocted. Given 21st century science and magical techniques, though, I'd say it could be. >> It's quite possible that normal organized sports would >> lose their appeal. Who wants to see Michael Jordan play >> ball when there's an entire league full of women who can >> outperform him on the best day of his life? >I think you're vastly overestimating the number of potentials who were >called. I can't imagine it's any more than a few hundred world-wide. >Certainly not enough to make up a professional sports league in North >America. We have no idea at all how many there are, really. Could be dozens, could be thousands. And the number is only likely to grow as time goes on, since with a whole bunch of Slayers out there any given Slayer is likely to survive longer than used to be the average. And there's no evidence at all that Slayer powers go away with time, remember. Buffy might live to a hundred years old, and she'll be able to kick some serious ass for her entire life. Pete

2003-05-25 00:25:28+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <bao0dp$807$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >> forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net> wrote: >> >Standing vertical leap of only a foot or two, rather than twelve? >> >> Sounds good to me. If nothing else, an unknown athlete who >> starts breaking world records right and left would be put >> on the "Hmmm, maybe..." list. >And then what? You can test her up and down but this isn't like >steroids. There's no medical test for Slayerness. But there will be, if a need for one arises. >You can say "Hmmm, maybe..." all you want but you can't just kick >someone out of a competition because you're suspicious. Actually, the people who run the competitions most likely can do just that. They'd come up with a better sounding justification for public consumption, of course. >> And it's not like modern science couldn't detect Slayers from >> normal humans if they really put their minds to it. I >> guarantee a more or less reliable Slayer-detector would pop >> up if the millions of dollars in college and professional >> sports got involved. >I don't see how. This is mystical, not scientific. And there are mystical people who are willing to do things for money. And I for one am not at all convinced that science can't detect magical energy and effects. It hasn't ever looked yet, after all. >> After THAT, the >> Slayers wouldn't be allowed to compete against normal >> humans anymore, >Again, how would you stop them? Most of these girls themselves don't >even know they are Slayers. How would the WNBA? A lot of Slayers could probably pass if they don't exert themselves too hard. It all depends on whether a reliable test could be concocted. Given 21st century science and magical techniques, though, I'd say it could be. >> It's quite possible that normal organized sports would >> lose their appeal. Who wants to see Michael Jordan play >> ball when there's an entire league full of women who can >> outperform him on the best day of his life? >I think you're vastly overestimating the number of potentials who were >called. I can't imagine it's any more than a few hundred world-wide. >Certainly not enough to make up a professional sports league in North >America. We have no idea at all how many there are, really. Could be dozens, could be thousands. And the number is only likely to grow as time goes on, since with a whole bunch of Slayers out there any given Slayer is likely to survive longer than used to be the average. And there's no evidence at all that Slayer powers go away with time, remember. Buffy might live to a hundred years old, and she'll be able to kick some serious ass for her entire life. Pete

2003-05-25 02:28:19+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <baodoh$h5j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: >> "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >> > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis >> > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any >> > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her >> > level, right? >> >> The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. >> She then would be cheating. >Which rule in basketball forbids telekinesis? And besides, all Willow would have to do is use her telekinesis to make it look like she was the one handling the ball. She could easily make full-court jump shots. That sort of thing does happen from time to time, after all, and it's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that someone could learn to do it consistently. As long as Willow only used her powers in ways that mimicked the other players, or enhanced herself to Slayer levels like she did when fighting Buffy at the end of season six, how would what she was doing be any different than what a Slayer competing against normal humans does? Willow's magical powers are just as much inherent to her as Buffy's Slayer powers. Pete

2003-05-25 02:28:19+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <baodoh$h5j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: >> "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >> > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis >> > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any >> > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her >> > level, right? >> >> The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. >> She then would be cheating. >Which rule in basketball forbids telekinesis? And besides, all Willow would have to do is use her telekinesis to make it look like she was the one handling the ball. She could easily make full-court jump shots. That sort of thing does happen from time to time, after all, and it's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that someone could learn to do it consistently. As long as Willow only used her powers in ways that mimicked the other players, or enhanced herself to Slayer levels like she did when fighting Buffy at the end of season six, how would what she was doing be any different than what a Slayer competing against normal humans does? Willow's magical powers are just as much inherent to her as Buffy's Slayer powers. Pete

2003-05-25 08:55:18-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305242302.7f3eac12@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > news:<240520032225256600%dsample@synapse.net>... > > In article <BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, BTR1701 > > <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the > > > taking, what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 > > > mph. All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > > > fastest girl and she wins every time. > > > > And she may even come in second once or twice in some of the less > > important races. If the top two in each of the qualifying heats get > > through to the final, she can let someone else win the qualifier. > --- > What is wrong with you two? Why does there have to be something wrong with us merely because we don't agree with you? > I am not saying a Slayer could not get > away with playing in the Majors or top level amatures. Sure she can > fake it. But why would she do it? If she did she will have no self > respect, it would be dishonest and dishonorable and unfair to her > "competators"; So every Slayer is going to be a good person? Think Faith. > and it would be stealing from others by her getting > endorsements and winning prize money under false pretenses. She would > be actually a worst sneak than someone taking anabolic steroids. So you say. Other people disagree. Other people look at Slayer power as something a girl is born with as a potential and when it reaches its full expression, it's part of her natural abililty.

2003-05-25 08:55:18-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305242302.7f3eac12@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > news:<240520032225256600%dsample@synapse.net>... > > In article <BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, BTR1701 > > <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the > > > taking, what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 > > > mph. All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > > > fastest girl and she wins every time. > > > > And she may even come in second once or twice in some of the less > > important races. If the top two in each of the qualifying heats get > > through to the final, she can let someone else win the qualifier. > --- > What is wrong with you two? Why does there have to be something wrong with us merely because we don't agree with you? > I am not saying a Slayer could not get > away with playing in the Majors or top level amatures. Sure she can > fake it. But why would she do it? If she did she will have no self > respect, it would be dishonest and dishonorable and unfair to her > "competators"; So every Slayer is going to be a good person? Think Faith. > and it would be stealing from others by her getting > endorsements and winning prize money under false pretenses. She would > be actually a worst sneak than someone taking anabolic steroids. So you say. Other people disagree. Other people look at Slayer power as something a girl is born with as a potential and when it reaches its full expression, it's part of her natural abililty.

2003-05-25 09:04:43-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305242319.59c418d7@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241416.3e2c2ba4@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > > > --- > > > Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by > > > fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. > > > > So anyone who breaks a record beyond what you think they should be able > > to is automatically disqualified? > ---- > If it is blown away by 1500 pounds yes. If it is blown away by 300 > pounds yes. By 50 pounds? No, but he would be tested for performance > enhancement drugs from here to next sunday. And what about the girl that just happens to win *every* time but only beats the next best competitor by 5 pounds? You can even test her to Monday if you like but it won't make any difference. And that's the key. If no test can turn up a difference between that girl and any other, I don't see how she could legally be banned from any competitiion. > > > Any normal talented and exceptional person could beat those records > > > by a few pounds or a few seconds, but a Slayer will blow them away. > > > > Not necessarily. If you were to implement these kinds of "rules", a > > Slayer could still compete and win as long as she's smart enough not to > > overdo it. If she makes sure she wins by only a little, she still wins > > every time, takes home the gold, and no one is any the wiser. > > > > > That is what I mean by human perameters. > > > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the taking, > > what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 mph. > > All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > > fastest girl and she wins every time. > ---- > You are saying for her to sneak around. That would be > dishonerable. And Slayers are people like anyone else. Faith is a case study in the idea that not all Slayers wear a white hat and do the right thing. As for sneaking around, I only think she would need to sneak because people would be trying to ban her from competing because she's too good at her sport. In my opinion, this is no different than those casinos in Vegas who ban people who have the natural ability to count cards. I think that's wrong. If a person sits down with a calculator or an ace up his sleeve or distracts the dealer so he can switch cards, that's cheating. But if he just plays the game using the god-given talents in his own brain, I don't think the casino should be allowed to kick him out. So if such a person walks into the Luxor or the Bellagio in disguise in order to avoid be kicked out, sure he's sneaking around but I don't blame him for it. > Sure she could get away with it but would you admire > someone like that who is stealing from a person who is breaking his or > her neck trying to shave off another quarter of a second of their > time? It doesn't meet the legal definition of theft. Sorry.

2003-05-25 09:04:43-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305242319.59c418d7@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241416.3e2c2ba4@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > > > --- > > > Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by > > > fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. > > > > So anyone who breaks a record beyond what you think they should be able > > to is automatically disqualified? > ---- > If it is blown away by 1500 pounds yes. If it is blown away by 300 > pounds yes. By 50 pounds? No, but he would be tested for performance > enhancement drugs from here to next sunday. And what about the girl that just happens to win *every* time but only beats the next best competitor by 5 pounds? You can even test her to Monday if you like but it won't make any difference. And that's the key. If no test can turn up a difference between that girl and any other, I don't see how she could legally be banned from any competitiion. > > > Any normal talented and exceptional person could beat those records > > > by a few pounds or a few seconds, but a Slayer will blow them away. > > > > Not necessarily. If you were to implement these kinds of "rules", a > > Slayer could still compete and win as long as she's smart enough not to > > overdo it. If she makes sure she wins by only a little, she still wins > > every time, takes home the gold, and no one is any the wiser. > > > > > That is what I mean by human perameters. > > > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the taking, > > what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 mph. > > All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > > fastest girl and she wins every time. > ---- > You are saying for her to sneak around. That would be > dishonerable. And Slayers are people like anyone else. Faith is a case study in the idea that not all Slayers wear a white hat and do the right thing. As for sneaking around, I only think she would need to sneak because people would be trying to ban her from competing because she's too good at her sport. In my opinion, this is no different than those casinos in Vegas who ban people who have the natural ability to count cards. I think that's wrong. If a person sits down with a calculator or an ace up his sleeve or distracts the dealer so he can switch cards, that's cheating. But if he just plays the game using the god-given talents in his own brain, I don't think the casino should be allowed to kick him out. So if such a person walks into the Luxor or the Bellagio in disguise in order to avoid be kicked out, sure he's sneaking around but I don't blame him for it. > Sure she could get away with it but would you admire > someone like that who is stealing from a person who is breaking his or > her neck trying to shave off another quarter of a second of their > time? It doesn't meet the legal definition of theft. Sorry.

2003-05-25 09:10:25-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bapqsi$api$4@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > In article <BTR1702-0C606F.19082024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >I mean, here you are saying you can't play in this league or win any of > >this money if you can lift 500 lbs with one hand. > > > >So the girl (who very much wants a chance at that money) walks up to the > >barbell, bends down, puts on a big show of straining and grunting and > >then steps back and says, "I can't lift it." Even though she very much > >could if she really tried. > > > >Now what? > > Then you look at the recording of the girl doing the test, and you say > "You say you can't lift it, but your muscles didn't contract any more than a > normal person trying to lift 2 pounds. Also, you don't show the changes > in blood pressure or heart rate seen in someone trying to lift a heavy > weight." And you're going to see all this from a recording. Wow. You're quite amazing. Hell, your abilities to detect all that from a video tape would be more amazing than the girl herself.

2003-05-25 09:10:25-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bapqsi$api$4@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > In article <BTR1702-0C606F.19082024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >I mean, here you are saying you can't play in this league or win any of > >this money if you can lift 500 lbs with one hand. > > > >So the girl (who very much wants a chance at that money) walks up to the > >barbell, bends down, puts on a big show of straining and grunting and > >then steps back and says, "I can't lift it." Even though she very much > >could if she really tried. > > > >Now what? > > Then you look at the recording of the girl doing the test, and you say > "You say you can't lift it, but your muscles didn't contract any more than a > normal person trying to lift 2 pounds. Also, you don't show the changes > in blood pressure or heart rate seen in someone trying to lift a heavy > weight." And you're going to see all this from a recording. Wow. You're quite amazing. Hell, your abilities to detect all that from a video tape would be more amazing than the girl herself.

2003-05-25 09:17:29-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305242254.371f71a9@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-C264D3.19060024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241520.1179f39b@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > news:<BTR1702-72943B.09035624052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > > > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim > > > > > <kim5@erols.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they > > > > > >play > > > > > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played > > > > > >basketball against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only > > > > > >because of a > > > > > >cowardice in avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > > > > > > > > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to > > > > > play > > > > > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you > > > > > didn't deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, > > > > > would that > > > > > win be in any way meaningful? > > > > > > > > No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be meaningful to > > > > her > > > > pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account. > > > ---- > > > I am rooting ferverently for Monica Sorensen to do well in the PGA > > > events. > > > > Don't you mean Annika Sorenstam? > ---- > I stand corrected. > > > > > This post is longer than I expected so let me quickly sum up by > > > saying > > > the real life equivalent of a Slayer entering professional sports is > > > a > > > man was to try to compete in the LPGA or the WNBA. > > > > And if Annika Sorenstam is allowed to play in the PGA, then a man > > should > > be allowed to compete in the LPGA. > --- > No. The difference in ability is too much. Too bad. That's price you pay for this kind of PC crap. That's the reason there are two leagues in the first place. If you want to make a qualifications-only standard for women, then men get the same treatment. There are laws about this. You can't discriminate based on gender and having two sets of standards in a business, one for men and one for women, is illegal. That's why the feminists who are rooting for Sorenstam are basically shooting themselves in the foot because they are creating an atmosphere where it's only a matter of time before men take over the sport of golf altogether. > I will gladly let women > play with the men if she believes she could hang with and even beat > the men in all sports including football (American/Canadian style as > well as Soccer and Rugby); I am willing to let the Williams sisters > give it a shot in the men's divison of Tennis but not the other way. Unfortunately the United States Code disagrees with you. > > The argument with Sorenstam is that she should be allowed to play if > > she has the ability to make the cut. I can't imagine why the same shouldn't > > be true of a man who wants a chance at the big money prizes in the > > LPGA. If he can make the cut, he should be allowed to play. > --- > Because the chances are great that not only he will make the cut, he > will dominate. They should have thought of that before letting the girls play with the guys. That's exactly why they had them separate to begin with. > It will be kind of silly if the top ten LPGA golfers > were all men or even just the top three wouldn't it? Such is the wonderful word of the politically correct. > Yes, I fully admit it is discrimatory. A little discrimination is a > good thing in this case. Only if you ignore the law. And I agree with the law in this case. If the girls want to play with the guys in their league, then they have to accept the reverse. If they don't want to accept the reverse, then they should just play in their own league and win their own prizes.

2003-05-25 09:17:29-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305242254.371f71a9@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-C264D3.19060024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241520.1179f39b@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > news:<BTR1702-72943B.09035624052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > > > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim > > > > > <kim5@erols.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they > > > > > >play > > > > > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played > > > > > >basketball against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only > > > > > >because of a > > > > > >cowardice in avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > > > > > > > > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to > > > > > play > > > > > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you > > > > > didn't deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, > > > > > would that > > > > > win be in any way meaningful? > > > > > > > > No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be meaningful to > > > > her > > > > pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account. > > > ---- > > > I am rooting ferverently for Monica Sorensen to do well in the PGA > > > events. > > > > Don't you mean Annika Sorenstam? > ---- > I stand corrected. > > > > > This post is longer than I expected so let me quickly sum up by > > > saying > > > the real life equivalent of a Slayer entering professional sports is > > > a > > > man was to try to compete in the LPGA or the WNBA. > > > > And if Annika Sorenstam is allowed to play in the PGA, then a man > > should > > be allowed to compete in the LPGA. > --- > No. The difference in ability is too much. Too bad. That's price you pay for this kind of PC crap. That's the reason there are two leagues in the first place. If you want to make a qualifications-only standard for women, then men get the same treatment. There are laws about this. You can't discriminate based on gender and having two sets of standards in a business, one for men and one for women, is illegal. That's why the feminists who are rooting for Sorenstam are basically shooting themselves in the foot because they are creating an atmosphere where it's only a matter of time before men take over the sport of golf altogether. > I will gladly let women > play with the men if she believes she could hang with and even beat > the men in all sports including football (American/Canadian style as > well as Soccer and Rugby); I am willing to let the Williams sisters > give it a shot in the men's divison of Tennis but not the other way. Unfortunately the United States Code disagrees with you. > > The argument with Sorenstam is that she should be allowed to play if > > she has the ability to make the cut. I can't imagine why the same shouldn't > > be true of a man who wants a chance at the big money prizes in the > > LPGA. If he can make the cut, he should be allowed to play. > --- > Because the chances are great that not only he will make the cut, he > will dominate. They should have thought of that before letting the girls play with the guys. That's exactly why they had them separate to begin with. > It will be kind of silly if the top ten LPGA golfers > were all men or even just the top three wouldn't it? Such is the wonderful word of the politically correct. > Yes, I fully admit it is discrimatory. A little discrimination is a > good thing in this case. Only if you ignore the law. And I agree with the law in this case. If the girls want to play with the guys in their league, then they have to accept the reverse. If they don't want to accept the reverse, then they should just play in their own league and win their own prizes.

2003-05-25 13:39:33-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <BTR1702-D7B1E8.09102525052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > In article <bapqsi$api$4@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > Then you look at the recording of the girl doing the test, and you say > > "You say you can't lift it, but your muscles didn't contract any more than a > > normal person trying to lift 2 pounds. Also, you don't show the changes > > in blood pressure or heart rate seen in someone trying to lift a heavy > > weight." > > And you're going to see all this from a recording. Wow. You're quite > amazing. Hell, your abilities to detect all that from a video tape would > be more amazing than the girl herself. You could wire the girl up with all sorts of strain meters and blood pressure monitors and the like when she's taking the test. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-25 13:39:33-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <BTR1702-D7B1E8.09102525052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > In article <bapqsi$api$4@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > Then you look at the recording of the girl doing the test, and you say > > "You say you can't lift it, but your muscles didn't contract any more than a > > normal person trying to lift 2 pounds. Also, you don't show the changes > > in blood pressure or heart rate seen in someone trying to lift a heavy > > weight." > > And you're going to see all this from a recording. Wow. You're quite > amazing. Hell, your abilities to detect all that from a video tape would > be more amazing than the girl herself. You could wire the girl up with all sorts of strain meters and blood pressure monitors and the like when she's taking the test. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-25 15:29:43-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-137AA9.09172925052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305242254.371f71a9@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-C264D3.19060024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241520.1179f39b@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > > news:<BTR1702-72943B.09035624052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > > In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim > > > > > > <kim5@erols.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they > > > > > > >play > > > > > > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played > > > > > > >basketball against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only > > > > > > >because of a > > > > > > >cowardice in avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > > > > > > > > > > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to > > > > > > play > > > > > > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you > > > > > > didn't deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, > > > > > > would that > > > > > > win be in any way meaningful? > > > > > > > > > > No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be meaningful to > > > > > her > > > > > pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account. > > > > ---- > > > > I am rooting ferverently for Monica Sorensen to do well in the PGA > > > > events. > > > > > > Don't you mean Annika Sorenstam? > > ---- > > I stand corrected. > > > > > > > This post is longer than I expected so let me quickly sum up by > > > > saying > > > > the real life equivalent of a Slayer entering professional sports is > > > > a > > > > man was to try to compete in the LPGA or the WNBA. > > > > > > And if Annika Sorenstam is allowed to play in the PGA, then a man > > > should > > > be allowed to compete in the LPGA. > > --- > > No. The difference in ability is too much. > > Too bad. That's price you pay for this kind of PC crap. That's the > reason there are two leagues in the first place. If you want to make a > qualifications-only standard for women, then men get the same treatment. ---- It is not PC, it is simply allowing the women if they are up to the challenge to hang with the men if they feel they can do so. But it will by no challenge whatsoever for a man to compete in the women's leagues. If anything this is anti-PC for it recognizes the difference in physical prowess between men and women but allows a woman to challenge herself if she feels up to it. > > There are laws about this. You can't discriminate based on gender and > having two sets of standards in a business, one for men and one for > women, is illegal. ---- There is no cognitive difference between men and women when it comes to intelligence or competence, hence the across the board and appropriate equal treatment in that area. > > That's why the feminists who are rooting for Sorenstam are basically > shooting themselves in the foot because they are creating an atmosphere > where it's only a matter of time before men take over the sport of golf > altogether. ---- There have been comparisons made between Sorenstam and (Jackie) Robinson. I have made it, but it is not exact. When Robinson broke into the Majors as the first acknowledge African American to play ML Baseball in some 60 years (I am sure a few that could pass for White or Indian played in the intervening years incognito, especially Cuban players) it marked the end of the Negro Leagues. It was the simple fact that despite the racist claims there are no difference in the athletic ability between black and white people. So within some 10 years the Negro Leagues died. However, that is not the case with Women and Men. Men are generally faster and stronger than women, as long as there is this physical difference there will always be a league for female players/competitors. All I am saying if a woman wants to hang with the men she should be allowed. This will not kill the women's league since most women can't hang with the men so they will stick to their own league mostly, but those women who are overpowering their comp and want a further challenge and maybe make history, let them play. The men are in no danger of being over run by the distaff set. > > > I will gladly let women > > play with the men if she believes she could hang with and even beat > > the men in all sports including football (American/Canadian style as > > well as Soccer and Rugby); I am willing to let the Williams sisters > > give it a shot in the men's divison of Tennis but not the other way. > > Unfortunately the United States Code disagrees with you. --- Really? Has it been challenged? Were was the court order of injunction against Ms. Sorenstam from playing. > > > > The argument with Sorenstam is that she should be allowed to play if > > > she has the ability to make the cut. I can't imagine why the same shouldn't > > > be true of a man who wants a chance at the big money prizes in the > > > LPGA. If he can make the cut, he should be allowed to play. > > --- > > Because the chances are great that not only he will make the cut, he > > will dominate. > > They should have thought of that before letting the girls play with the > guys. That's exactly why they had them separate to begin with. ---- I will gladly take it to court. Some discrimination is desireable. There is no danger in letting women play in the men's leagues, neither the male division or female division would be endangered. It would be if we let men play in the women's division. > > > It will be kind of silly if the top ten LPGA golfers > > were all men or even just the top three wouldn't it? > > Such is the wonderful word of the politically correct. ---- If you noticed my stance is not exactly PC. I am for equal opportunity, not equal result. A PC thing to do is to alter the sport to make it easier for woman to compete with the men, like some handicapping, or as it has been reported in the military, the lesser qualifications in boot camp. That's PC. > > > Yes, I fully admit it is discrimatory. A little discrimination is a > > good thing in this case. > > Only if you ignore the law. > > And I agree with the law in this case. If the girls want to play with > the guys in their league, then they have to accept the reverse. If they > don't want to accept the reverse, then they should just play in their > own league and win their own prizes. --- Simplistic. Sounds good on the surface. ---->Hunter

2003-05-25 15:29:43-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-137AA9.09172925052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305242254.371f71a9@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-C264D3.19060024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241520.1179f39b@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > > news:<BTR1702-72943B.09035624052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > > In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim > > > > > > <kim5@erols.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if they > > > > > > >play > > > > > > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I played > > > > > > >basketball against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only > > > > > > >because of a > > > > > > >cowardice in avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > > > > > > > > > > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing to > > > > > > play > > > > > > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so you > > > > > > didn't deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and won, > > > > > > would that > > > > > > win be in any way meaningful? > > > > > > > > > > No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be meaningful to > > > > > her > > > > > pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account. > > > > ---- > > > > I am rooting ferverently for Monica Sorensen to do well in the PGA > > > > events. > > > > > > Don't you mean Annika Sorenstam? > > ---- > > I stand corrected. > > > > > > > This post is longer than I expected so let me quickly sum up by > > > > saying > > > > the real life equivalent of a Slayer entering professional sports is > > > > a > > > > man was to try to compete in the LPGA or the WNBA. > > > > > > And if Annika Sorenstam is allowed to play in the PGA, then a man > > > should > > > be allowed to compete in the LPGA. > > --- > > No. The difference in ability is too much. > > Too bad. That's price you pay for this kind of PC crap. That's the > reason there are two leagues in the first place. If you want to make a > qualifications-only standard for women, then men get the same treatment. ---- It is not PC, it is simply allowing the women if they are up to the challenge to hang with the men if they feel they can do so. But it will by no challenge whatsoever for a man to compete in the women's leagues. If anything this is anti-PC for it recognizes the difference in physical prowess between men and women but allows a woman to challenge herself if she feels up to it. > > There are laws about this. You can't discriminate based on gender and > having two sets of standards in a business, one for men and one for > women, is illegal. ---- There is no cognitive difference between men and women when it comes to intelligence or competence, hence the across the board and appropriate equal treatment in that area. > > That's why the feminists who are rooting for Sorenstam are basically > shooting themselves in the foot because they are creating an atmosphere > where it's only a matter of time before men take over the sport of golf > altogether. ---- There have been comparisons made between Sorenstam and (Jackie) Robinson. I have made it, but it is not exact. When Robinson broke into the Majors as the first acknowledge African American to play ML Baseball in some 60 years (I am sure a few that could pass for White or Indian played in the intervening years incognito, especially Cuban players) it marked the end of the Negro Leagues. It was the simple fact that despite the racist claims there are no difference in the athletic ability between black and white people. So within some 10 years the Negro Leagues died. However, that is not the case with Women and Men. Men are generally faster and stronger than women, as long as there is this physical difference there will always be a league for female players/competitors. All I am saying if a woman wants to hang with the men she should be allowed. This will not kill the women's league since most women can't hang with the men so they will stick to their own league mostly, but those women who are overpowering their comp and want a further challenge and maybe make history, let them play. The men are in no danger of being over run by the distaff set. > > > I will gladly let women > > play with the men if she believes she could hang with and even beat > > the men in all sports including football (American/Canadian style as > > well as Soccer and Rugby); I am willing to let the Williams sisters > > give it a shot in the men's divison of Tennis but not the other way. > > Unfortunately the United States Code disagrees with you. --- Really? Has it been challenged? Were was the court order of injunction against Ms. Sorenstam from playing. > > > > The argument with Sorenstam is that she should be allowed to play if > > > she has the ability to make the cut. I can't imagine why the same shouldn't > > > be true of a man who wants a chance at the big money prizes in the > > > LPGA. If he can make the cut, he should be allowed to play. > > --- > > Because the chances are great that not only he will make the cut, he > > will dominate. > > They should have thought of that before letting the girls play with the > guys. That's exactly why they had them separate to begin with. ---- I will gladly take it to court. Some discrimination is desireable. There is no danger in letting women play in the men's leagues, neither the male division or female division would be endangered. It would be if we let men play in the women's division. > > > It will be kind of silly if the top ten LPGA golfers > > were all men or even just the top three wouldn't it? > > Such is the wonderful word of the politically correct. ---- If you noticed my stance is not exactly PC. I am for equal opportunity, not equal result. A PC thing to do is to alter the sport to make it easier for woman to compete with the men, like some handicapping, or as it has been reported in the military, the lesser qualifications in boot camp. That's PC. > > > Yes, I fully admit it is discrimatory. A little discrimination is a > > good thing in this case. > > Only if you ignore the law. > > And I agree with the law in this case. If the girls want to play with > the guys in their league, then they have to accept the reverse. If they > don't want to accept the reverse, then they should just play in their > own league and win their own prizes. --- Simplistic. Sounds good on the surface. ---->Hunter

2003-05-25 15:34:47-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-0C606F.19082024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305241422.6bfd3f5c@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-7033B7.09024824052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240158.27fdfe4a@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > > > > news:<220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>... > > > > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee > > > > > <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > > > > > > > If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > > > > > > longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just > > > > > > cheating. > > > > > > > > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > > > > stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > > > > > > someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > > > > > > So all those major league baseball players who are so much better > > > > > at it than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > > > > > unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > > > > ---- > > > > Literally they are not in the same league. Your baseball superstars > > > > maybe stronger and more skillfull than Joe Average, but they still > > > > fall well within human peramatures. Buffy can literally lift a ton if > > > > my guesstimates are right. What do you think she would do to a > > > > baseball if she hits it? Do you really want to take a clothes line > > > > line drive to third if you are a third baseman? I the hell would not. > > > > But that would be an accident since with both her slayer strength and > > > > reflexes and ability to calculate the angle of a fast moving > > > > projectile well enough to catch an arrow in mid air she would be > > > > hitting a home run every time she came up to bat; except for the > > > > accidental line drives to third or, horrors, back to the pitcher. > > > > Sorry, you will have to ban The Slayers from normal human baseball, > > > > starting with that 12 year old potential in little Leage who got her > > > > powers while up to bat. > > > > > > How do you (or even the girls themselves) know they are Slayers? How > > > will you test for Slayerness? If you're going to start banning people, > > > these are questions you have to answer. > > --- > > How about being able to lift 500 ponds with one hand? > > What if they say they can't? > > I mean, here you are saying you can't play in this league or win any of > this money if you can lift 500 lbs with one hand. > > So the girl (who very much wants a chance at that money) walks up to the > barbell, bends down, puts on a big show of straining and grunting and > then steps back and says, "I can't lift it." Even though she very much > could if she really tried. > > Now what? --- I guess we are arguing two issues here: Whether the Slayers should play openly against us mundanes and the answer to that is no. The second issue is whether they can get away with it if they kept their nature a secret and the answer to that is yes, but that would not be honorable. That would be wrong. I would never respect a slayer who did that. ----->Hunter

2003-05-25 15:34:47-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-0C606F.19082024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305241422.6bfd3f5c@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-7033B7.09024824052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240158.27fdfe4a@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > > > > news:<220520031455407032%dsample@synapse.net>... > > > > > In article <baiqri$7m2$5@blue.rahul.net>, Ken Arromdee > > > > > <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > > > > > > > If somebody has *so* much innate ability that training and effort no > > > > > > longer make any difference in the outcome, playing sports is just > > > > > > cheating. > > > > > > > > > > > > Turning lots of teens into Slayers hasn't made them into sports > > > > > > stars. Instead, it basically kicked them out of sports for life (unless > > > > > > someone makes a sports league consisting of only Slayers). > > > > > > > > > > So all those major league baseball players who are so much better > > > > > at it than Joe Average should give up their careers, 'cause, hey, it's so > > > > > unfair that they're so much better than the rest of us? > > > > ---- > > > > Literally they are not in the same league. Your baseball superstars > > > > maybe stronger and more skillfull than Joe Average, but they still > > > > fall well within human peramatures. Buffy can literally lift a ton if > > > > my guesstimates are right. What do you think she would do to a > > > > baseball if she hits it? Do you really want to take a clothes line > > > > line drive to third if you are a third baseman? I the hell would not. > > > > But that would be an accident since with both her slayer strength and > > > > reflexes and ability to calculate the angle of a fast moving > > > > projectile well enough to catch an arrow in mid air she would be > > > > hitting a home run every time she came up to bat; except for the > > > > accidental line drives to third or, horrors, back to the pitcher. > > > > Sorry, you will have to ban The Slayers from normal human baseball, > > > > starting with that 12 year old potential in little Leage who got her > > > > powers while up to bat. > > > > > > How do you (or even the girls themselves) know they are Slayers? How > > > will you test for Slayerness? If you're going to start banning people, > > > these are questions you have to answer. > > --- > > How about being able to lift 500 ponds with one hand? > > What if they say they can't? > > I mean, here you are saying you can't play in this league or win any of > this money if you can lift 500 lbs with one hand. > > So the girl (who very much wants a chance at that money) walks up to the > barbell, bends down, puts on a big show of straining and grunting and > then steps back and says, "I can't lift it." Even though she very much > could if she really tried. > > Now what? --- I guess we are arguing two issues here: Whether the Slayers should play openly against us mundanes and the answer to that is no. The second issue is whether they can get away with it if they kept their nature a secret and the answer to that is yes, but that would not be honorable. That would be wrong. I would never respect a slayer who did that. ----->Hunter

2003-05-25 15:50:08-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-C33D26.08551825052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305242302.7f3eac12@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > > news:<240520032225256600%dsample@synapse.net>... > > > In article <BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, BTR1701 > > > <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the > > > > taking, what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 > > > > mph. All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > > > > fastest girl and she wins every time. > > > > > > And she may even come in second once or twice in some of the less > > > important races. If the top two in each of the qualifying heats get > > > through to the final, she can let someone else win the qualifier. > > --- > > What is wrong with you two? > > Why does there have to be something wrong with us merely because we > don't agree with you? --- 'Cause you don't see the confusion and uproar allowing Slayers into organized sports. It will demoralize the normal people playing and kill the sports they play in. Great, Rona the Vampire Slayer holds the season record of 600 home runs, how boring. > > > I am not saying a Slayer could not get > > away with playing in the Majors or top level amatures. Sure she can > > fake it. But why would she do it? If she did she will have no self > > respect, it would be dishonest and dishonorable and unfair to her > > "competators"; > > So every Slayer is going to be a good person? Think Faith. ---- I am not saying a Slayer could not get away with it, I am saying that it would be dishonorable to do so. > > > and it would be stealing from others by her getting > > endorsements and winning prize money under false pretenses. She would > > be actually a worst sneak than someone taking anabolic steroids. > > So you say. Other people disagree. Other people look at Slayer power as > something a girl is born with as a potential and when it reaches its > full expression, it's part of her natural abililty. --- But it is unfair to the rest of humanity. You would render all sports useless and/or Slayer only leagues. There will be no challenge. No average person would want to play against someone that is out classes them by so much. Your Micheal Jordans, Babe Ruths, Carl Lewises are few and far between and are not that far out of the norm. A Slayer who captures a world record would be meaningless and if she had any sense of honor it would be meaningless to her. People compete to challenge themselves, to improve themselves in relation to others. How can you improve yourself against a Slayer? There were runners trying to shave off a quarter of a second from their times looking forward to beating Micheal Johnson, the 1996 Atlanta Olympics track star. What would be the point in racing against someone who can run 40+ mph when you can only run at 22mph? I submit you are the one being PC. Having them participate in sports sounds good, but it would kill any sport they were in. ------>Hunter

2003-05-25 15:50:08-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-C33D26.08551825052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305242302.7f3eac12@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message > > news:<240520032225256600%dsample@synapse.net>... > > > In article <BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, BTR1701 > > > <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the > > > > taking, what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 > > > > mph. All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > > > > fastest girl and she wins every time. > > > > > > And she may even come in second once or twice in some of the less > > > important races. If the top two in each of the qualifying heats get > > > through to the final, she can let someone else win the qualifier. > > --- > > What is wrong with you two? > > Why does there have to be something wrong with us merely because we > don't agree with you? --- 'Cause you don't see the confusion and uproar allowing Slayers into organized sports. It will demoralize the normal people playing and kill the sports they play in. Great, Rona the Vampire Slayer holds the season record of 600 home runs, how boring. > > > I am not saying a Slayer could not get > > away with playing in the Majors or top level amatures. Sure she can > > fake it. But why would she do it? If she did she will have no self > > respect, it would be dishonest and dishonorable and unfair to her > > "competators"; > > So every Slayer is going to be a good person? Think Faith. ---- I am not saying a Slayer could not get away with it, I am saying that it would be dishonorable to do so. > > > and it would be stealing from others by her getting > > endorsements and winning prize money under false pretenses. She would > > be actually a worst sneak than someone taking anabolic steroids. > > So you say. Other people disagree. Other people look at Slayer power as > something a girl is born with as a potential and when it reaches its > full expression, it's part of her natural abililty. --- But it is unfair to the rest of humanity. You would render all sports useless and/or Slayer only leagues. There will be no challenge. No average person would want to play against someone that is out classes them by so much. Your Micheal Jordans, Babe Ruths, Carl Lewises are few and far between and are not that far out of the norm. A Slayer who captures a world record would be meaningless and if she had any sense of honor it would be meaningless to her. People compete to challenge themselves, to improve themselves in relation to others. How can you improve yourself against a Slayer? There were runners trying to shave off a quarter of a second from their times looking forward to beating Micheal Johnson, the 1996 Atlanta Olympics track star. What would be the point in racing against someone who can run 40+ mph when you can only run at 22mph? I submit you are the one being PC. Having them participate in sports sounds good, but it would kill any sport they were in. ------>Hunter

2003-05-25 16:25:24-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > >news:bao6bs$b66$1@news3.bu.edu... > > >> Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about > >> Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your > > >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external measures to > >enhance their game. > > So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? Only humans are allowed, you know. > >> reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > >> to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > >> chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > >> level, right? > > >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > >She then would be cheating. > > Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > not allowed. It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your own hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are covered. > >> And yes, it really is the same issue. Slayer powers would be > >> harder to detect if the Slayers using them had an ounce of > >> brains, but the issue is the same - just like steroid users > >> or somebody who used magical spells, Slayers have an unfair > >> advantage over other athletes. Unlike steroid users, it's not > >> something they chose to do, but that doesn't change the fact > >> that they do have an unfair advantage. And athletes in our > >> world have been banned from competition for using perfecly > >> legitimate drugs for legitimate reasons that were thought to > >> have side effects that would give them an unfair advantage, > >> so you can't even use "They're not deliberately looking for > >> an edge" as an excuse. > > >Most of the time, it's because those side effects have dangerous > >consequences in the long run. > > Believe me, the welfare of the players is NOT the foremost > reason various drugs are outlawed in professional sports. It is a _huge_ reason, though. The only reason why there was even talk of Baseball banning Ephedra is because one player who died this spring had Ephedra in his system. > >If you can give me any example of an athlete being disqualified for just > >being naturally too good, then you have a case. > > Slayers are not naturally that powerful, though. Magic and demonic > powers have made them that way. If a so-so basketball player made > a deal with the devil (or a devil, in the Buffy-verse) and suddenly > became an amazing player, would you call that natural talent? No, but that's because he sought out an outside source. For Slayers, being a Slayer is part of who they are. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 16:25:24-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > >news:bao6bs$b66$1@news3.bu.edu... > > >> Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about > >> Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your > > >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external measures to > >enhance their game. > > So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? Only humans are allowed, you know. > >> reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > >> to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > >> chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > >> level, right? > > >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > >She then would be cheating. > > Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > not allowed. It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your own hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are covered. > >> And yes, it really is the same issue. Slayer powers would be > >> harder to detect if the Slayers using them had an ounce of > >> brains, but the issue is the same - just like steroid users > >> or somebody who used magical spells, Slayers have an unfair > >> advantage over other athletes. Unlike steroid users, it's not > >> something they chose to do, but that doesn't change the fact > >> that they do have an unfair advantage. And athletes in our > >> world have been banned from competition for using perfecly > >> legitimate drugs for legitimate reasons that were thought to > >> have side effects that would give them an unfair advantage, > >> so you can't even use "They're not deliberately looking for > >> an edge" as an excuse. > > >Most of the time, it's because those side effects have dangerous > >consequences in the long run. > > Believe me, the welfare of the players is NOT the foremost > reason various drugs are outlawed in professional sports. It is a _huge_ reason, though. The only reason why there was even talk of Baseball banning Ephedra is because one player who died this spring had Ephedra in his system. > >If you can give me any example of an athlete being disqualified for just > >being naturally too good, then you have a case. > > Slayers are not naturally that powerful, though. Magic and demonic > powers have made them that way. If a so-so basketball player made > a deal with the devil (or a devil, in the Buffy-verse) and suddenly > became an amazing player, would you call that natural talent? No, but that's because he sought out an outside source. For Slayers, being a Slayer is part of who they are. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 16:28:23-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bap9o3$8st$1@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >In article <baodoh$h5j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > >> "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > >> > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > >> > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > >> > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > >> > level, right? > >> > >> The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > >> She then would be cheating. > > >Which rule in basketball forbids telekinesis? > > And besides, all Willow would have to do is use her telekinesis > to make it look like she was the one handling the ball. She > could easily make full-court jump shots. That sort of thing > does happen from time to time, after all, and it's certainly > not beyond the realm of possibility that someone could learn > to do it consistently. Because whether or not people can catch it, she's still using her magic, not her hands, to make the shot. > As long as Willow only used her powers in ways that mimicked > the other players, or enhanced herself to Slayer levels like > she did when fighting Buffy at the end of season six, how would > what she was doing be any different than what a Slayer > competing against normal humans does? Willow's magical powers > are just as much inherent to her as Buffy's Slayer powers. Because Willow's magical powers are, as I elaborated in another post, outside of the bounds of basketball rules. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 16:28:23-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bap9o3$8st$1@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >In article <baodoh$h5j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > >> "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > >> > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > >> > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > >> > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > >> > level, right? > >> > >> The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > >> She then would be cheating. > > >Which rule in basketball forbids telekinesis? > > And besides, all Willow would have to do is use her telekinesis > to make it look like she was the one handling the ball. She > could easily make full-court jump shots. That sort of thing > does happen from time to time, after all, and it's certainly > not beyond the realm of possibility that someone could learn > to do it consistently. Because whether or not people can catch it, she's still using her magic, not her hands, to make the shot. > As long as Willow only used her powers in ways that mimicked > the other players, or enhanced herself to Slayer levels like > she did when fighting Buffy at the end of season six, how would > what she was doing be any different than what a Slayer > competing against normal humans does? Willow's magical powers > are just as much inherent to her as Buffy's Slayer powers. Because Willow's magical powers are, as I elaborated in another post, outside of the bounds of basketball rules. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 16:31:36-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bap2ho$30i$5@news3.bu.edu... > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >In article <bao0dp$807$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger > ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > >> forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net> wrote: > > >> >Standing vertical leap of only a foot or two, rather than twelve? > >> > >> Sounds good to me. If nothing else, an unknown athlete who > >> starts breaking world records right and left would be put > >> on the "Hmmm, maybe..." list. > > >And then what? You can test her up and down but this isn't like > >steroids. There's no medical test for Slayerness. > > But there will be, if a need for one arises. Would they naturally think of supernatural causes? Remember, as hard as this is to believe, the majority of the population in the Buffyverse still doesn't seem to believe in magic. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 16:31:36-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bap2ho$30i$5@news3.bu.edu... > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >In article <bao0dp$807$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger > ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > >> forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net> wrote: > > >> >Standing vertical leap of only a foot or two, rather than twelve? > >> > >> Sounds good to me. If nothing else, an unknown athlete who > >> starts breaking world records right and left would be put > >> on the "Hmmm, maybe..." list. > > >And then what? You can test her up and down but this isn't like > >steroids. There's no medical test for Slayerness. > > But there will be, if a need for one arises. Would they naturally think of supernatural causes? Remember, as hard as this is to believe, the majority of the population in the Buffyverse still doesn't seem to believe in magic. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 16:42:47-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-C33D26.08551825052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <32f29bdf.0305242302.7f3eac12@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > and it would be stealing from others by her getting > > endorsements and winning prize money under false pretenses. She would > > be actually a worst sneak than someone taking anabolic steroids. > > So you say. Other people disagree. Other people look at Slayer power as > something a girl is born with as a potential and when it reaches its > full expression, it's part of her natural abililty. And even though potential Slayer power may be something that is "given" to a girl at birth, guess what: so's her DNA. No one is going to argue that someone should be barred from athletics because their DNA is too strong. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 16:42:47-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-C33D26.08551825052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <32f29bdf.0305242302.7f3eac12@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > and it would be stealing from others by her getting > > endorsements and winning prize money under false pretenses. She would > > be actually a worst sneak than someone taking anabolic steroids. > > So you say. Other people disagree. Other people look at Slayer power as > something a girl is born with as a potential and when it reaches its > full expression, it's part of her natural abililty. And even though potential Slayer power may be something that is "given" to a girl at birth, guess what: so's her DNA. No one is going to argue that someone should be barred from athletics because their DNA is too strong. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 16:51:41-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Hunter" <buffhunter@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:32f29bdf.0305242319.59c418d7@posting.google.com... > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241416.3e2c2ba4@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > > > --- > > > Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by > > > fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. > > > > So anyone who breaks a record beyond what you think they should be able > > to is automatically disqualified? > ---- > If it is blown away by 1500 pounds yes. If it is blown away by 300 > pounds yes. By 50 pounds? No, but he would be tested for performance > enhancement drugs from here to next sunday. No one kicked Wilt Chamberlain out of the NBA for scoring 100 points in a game. Secretariat wasn't put to sleep for winning the Kentucky Derby (I think it was the Derby) by 22 1/2 lengths. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 16:51:41-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Hunter" <buffhunter@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:32f29bdf.0305242319.59c418d7@posting.google.com... > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241416.3e2c2ba4@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > > > --- > > > Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by > > > fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. > > > > So anyone who breaks a record beyond what you think they should be able > > to is automatically disqualified? > ---- > If it is blown away by 1500 pounds yes. If it is blown away by 300 > pounds yes. By 50 pounds? No, but he would be tested for performance > enhancement drugs from here to next sunday. No one kicked Wilt Chamberlain out of the NBA for scoring 100 points in a game. Secretariat wasn't put to sleep for winning the Kentucky Derby (I think it was the Derby) by 22 1/2 lengths. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 17:00:02-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Don Sample" <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message news:250520031339330169%dsample@synapse.net... > In article <BTR1702-D7B1E8.09102525052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, BTR1701 > <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > In article <bapqsi$api$4@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > Then you look at the recording of the girl doing the test, and you say > > > "You say you can't lift it, but your muscles didn't contract any more than a > > > normal person trying to lift 2 pounds. Also, you don't show the changes > > > in blood pressure or heart rate seen in someone trying to lift a heavy > > > weight." > > > > And you're going to see all this from a recording. Wow. You're quite > > amazing. Hell, your abilities to detect all that from a video tape would > > be more amazing than the girl herself. > > You could wire the girl up with all sorts of strain meters and blood > pressure monitors and the like when she's taking the test. You know, the girl could just not do her best in the first place. That way there might not be enough suspicion to even consider testing her. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 17:00:02-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Don Sample" <dsample@synapse.net> wrote in message news:250520031339330169%dsample@synapse.net... > In article <BTR1702-D7B1E8.09102525052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, BTR1701 > <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > In article <bapqsi$api$4@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > Then you look at the recording of the girl doing the test, and you say > > > "You say you can't lift it, but your muscles didn't contract any more than a > > > normal person trying to lift 2 pounds. Also, you don't show the changes > > > in blood pressure or heart rate seen in someone trying to lift a heavy > > > weight." > > > > And you're going to see all this from a recording. Wow. You're quite > > amazing. Hell, your abilities to detect all that from a video tape would > > be more amazing than the girl herself. > > You could wire the girl up with all sorts of strain meters and blood > pressure monitors and the like when she's taking the test. You know, the girl could just not do her best in the first place. That way there might not be enough suspicion to even consider testing her. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 18:10:27-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305251429.3094ec7f@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-137AA9.09172925052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305242254.371f71a9@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > news:<BTR1702-C264D3.19060024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241520.1179f39b@posting.google.com>, > > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > > > news:<BTR1702-72943B.09035624052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > > > In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, > > > > > > arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim > > > > > > > <kim5@erols.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if > > > > > > > >they > > > > > > > >play > > > > > > > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I > > > > > > > >played > > > > > > > >basketball against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only > > > > > > > >because of a > > > > > > > >cowardice in avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > play > > > > > > > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > didn't deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and > > > > > > > won, > > > > > > > would that > > > > > > > win be in any way meaningful? > > > > > > > > > > > > No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be > > > > > > meaningful to > > > > > > her > > > > > > pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account. > > > > > ---- > > > > > I am rooting ferverently for Monica Sorensen to do well in the > > > > > PGA > > > > > events. > > > > > > > > Don't you mean Annika Sorenstam? > > > ---- > > > I stand corrected. > > > > > > > > > This post is longer than I expected so let me quickly sum up by > > > > > saying the real life equivalent of a Slayer entering professional sports > > > > > is a man was to try to compete in the LPGA or the WNBA. > > > > > > > > And if Annika Sorenstam is allowed to play in the PGA, then a man > > > > should be allowed to compete in the LPGA. > > > --- > > > No. The difference in ability is too much. > > > > Too bad. That's price you pay for this kind of PC crap. That's the > > reason there are two leagues in the first place. If you want to make a > > qualifications-only standard for women, then men get the same > > treatment. > ---- > It is not PC, it is simply allowing the women if they are up to the > challenge to hang with the men if they feel they can do so. But it > will by no challenge whatsoever for a man to compete in the women's > leagues. If anything this is anti-PC for it recognizes the difference > in physical prowess between men and women but allows a woman to > challenge herself if she feels up to it. > > > > There are laws about this. You can't discriminate based on gender and > > having two sets of standards in a business, one for men and one for > > women, is illegal. > ---- > There is no cognitive difference between men and women when it comes > to intelligence or competence, hence the across the board and > appropriate equal treatment in that area. The law doesn't make distinctions between the cognitive and the physical and it doesn't care about how much of a challenge it is for men to compete against women or vice versa. > > > I will gladly let women > > > play with the men if she believes she could hang with and even beat > > > the men in all sports including football (American/Canadian style as > > > well as Soccer and Rugby); I am willing to let the Williams sisters > > > give it a shot in the men's divison of Tennis but not the other way. > > > > Unfortunately the United States Code disagrees with you. > --- > Really? Has it been challenged? Were was the court order of injunction > against Ms. Sorenstam from playing. Nowhere. You miss the point. There's nothing illegal about Sorenstam competing. What *will* be illegal is saying to a man that he *can't* compete in the women's league since he can make the cut same as Sorenstam did. Her competition has set the stage for a man to decide he wants to go for the LPGA purse and when he's denied, he can file a 14th Amendment Equal Protection claim and/or a gender bias discrimination claim. > > > > The argument with Sorenstam is that she should be allowed to play > > > > if she has the ability to make the cut. I can't imagine why the same > > > > shouldn't be true of a man who wants a chance at the big money prizes in the > > > > LPGA. If he can make the cut, he should be allowed to play. > > > --- > > > Because the chances are great that not only he will make the cut, he > > > will dominate. > > > > They should have thought of that before letting the girls play with the > > guys. That's exactly why they had them separate to begin with. > ---- > I will gladly take it to court. Some discrimination is desireable. So you say. The law says otherwise. > > > It will be kind of silly if the top ten LPGA golfers > > > were all men or even just the top three wouldn't it? > > > > Such is the wonderful word of the politically correct. > ---- > If you noticed my stance is not exactly PC. I'm not saying you are PC. I'm saying those who are pushing Sorenstam's inclusion in the PGA as some sort of triumph of feminism are PC. > > > Yes, I fully admit it is discrimatory. A little discrimination is a > > > good thing in this case. > > > > Only if you ignore the law. > > > > And I agree with the law in this case. If the girls want to play with > > the guys in their league, then they have to accept the reverse. If they > > don't want to accept the reverse, then they should just play in their > > own league and win their own prizes. > --- > Simplistic. Sounds good on the surface. And it works in practice also.

2003-05-25 18:10:27-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305251429.3094ec7f@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-137AA9.09172925052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305242254.371f71a9@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > news:<BTR1702-C264D3.19060024052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241520.1179f39b@posting.google.com>, > > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > > > news:<BTR1702-72943B.09035624052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > > > In article <ban4s5$4gr$2@blue.rahul.net>, > > > > > > arromdee@violet.rahul.net > > > > > > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > In article <bamu6l$2a9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim > > > > > > > <kim5@erols.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >I guess that in real life it reflects poorly on someone if > > > > > > > >they > > > > > > > >play > > > > > > > >against significantly lower competition (like, say, if I > > > > > > > >played > > > > > > > >basketball against 90 year old grandmothers) but that's only > > > > > > > >because of a > > > > > > > >cowardice in avoiding the higher levels of competition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if you lived in a town where the only other people willing > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > play > > > > > > > basketball were 90 year old grandmothers and 6 year olds (so > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > didn't deliberately avoid anyone), and you played a game and > > > > > > > won, > > > > > > > would that > > > > > > > win be in any way meaningful? > > > > > > > > > > > > No, but if a Slayer won the PGA, her win might not be > > > > > > meaningful to > > > > > > her > > > > > > pride, but it sure would be meaningful to her bank account. > > > > > ---- > > > > > I am rooting ferverently for Monica Sorensen to do well in the > > > > > PGA > > > > > events. > > > > > > > > Don't you mean Annika Sorenstam? > > > ---- > > > I stand corrected. > > > > > > > > > This post is longer than I expected so let me quickly sum up by > > > > > saying the real life equivalent of a Slayer entering professional sports > > > > > is a man was to try to compete in the LPGA or the WNBA. > > > > > > > > And if Annika Sorenstam is allowed to play in the PGA, then a man > > > > should be allowed to compete in the LPGA. > > > --- > > > No. The difference in ability is too much. > > > > Too bad. That's price you pay for this kind of PC crap. That's the > > reason there are two leagues in the first place. If you want to make a > > qualifications-only standard for women, then men get the same > > treatment. > ---- > It is not PC, it is simply allowing the women if they are up to the > challenge to hang with the men if they feel they can do so. But it > will by no challenge whatsoever for a man to compete in the women's > leagues. If anything this is anti-PC for it recognizes the difference > in physical prowess between men and women but allows a woman to > challenge herself if she feels up to it. > > > > There are laws about this. You can't discriminate based on gender and > > having two sets of standards in a business, one for men and one for > > women, is illegal. > ---- > There is no cognitive difference between men and women when it comes > to intelligence or competence, hence the across the board and > appropriate equal treatment in that area. The law doesn't make distinctions between the cognitive and the physical and it doesn't care about how much of a challenge it is for men to compete against women or vice versa. > > > I will gladly let women > > > play with the men if she believes she could hang with and even beat > > > the men in all sports including football (American/Canadian style as > > > well as Soccer and Rugby); I am willing to let the Williams sisters > > > give it a shot in the men's divison of Tennis but not the other way. > > > > Unfortunately the United States Code disagrees with you. > --- > Really? Has it been challenged? Were was the court order of injunction > against Ms. Sorenstam from playing. Nowhere. You miss the point. There's nothing illegal about Sorenstam competing. What *will* be illegal is saying to a man that he *can't* compete in the women's league since he can make the cut same as Sorenstam did. Her competition has set the stage for a man to decide he wants to go for the LPGA purse and when he's denied, he can file a 14th Amendment Equal Protection claim and/or a gender bias discrimination claim. > > > > The argument with Sorenstam is that she should be allowed to play > > > > if she has the ability to make the cut. I can't imagine why the same > > > > shouldn't be true of a man who wants a chance at the big money prizes in the > > > > LPGA. If he can make the cut, he should be allowed to play. > > > --- > > > Because the chances are great that not only he will make the cut, he > > > will dominate. > > > > They should have thought of that before letting the girls play with the > > guys. That's exactly why they had them separate to begin with. > ---- > I will gladly take it to court. Some discrimination is desireable. So you say. The law says otherwise. > > > It will be kind of silly if the top ten LPGA golfers > > > were all men or even just the top three wouldn't it? > > > > Such is the wonderful word of the politically correct. > ---- > If you noticed my stance is not exactly PC. I'm not saying you are PC. I'm saying those who are pushing Sorenstam's inclusion in the PGA as some sort of triumph of feminism are PC. > > > Yes, I fully admit it is discrimatory. A little discrimination is a > > > good thing in this case. > > > > Only if you ignore the law. > > > > And I agree with the law in this case. If the girls want to play with > > the guys in their league, then they have to accept the reverse. If they > > don't want to accept the reverse, then they should just play in their > > own league and win their own prizes. > --- > Simplistic. Sounds good on the surface. And it works in practice also.

2003-05-25 18:11:51-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bar9r7$2o4$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:BTR1702-C33D26.08551825052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305242302.7f3eac12@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > and it would be stealing from others by her getting > > > endorsements and winning prize money under false pretenses. She would > > > be actually a worst sneak than someone taking anabolic steroids. > > > > So you say. Other people disagree. Other people look at Slayer power as > > something a girl is born with as a potential and when it reaches its > > full expression, it's part of her natural abililty. > > And even though potential Slayer power may be something that is "given" > to a girl at birth, guess what: so's her DNA. No one is going to argue that > someone should be barred from athletics because their DNA is too strong. Okay. Not sure we disagree here.

2003-05-25 18:11:51-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bar9r7$2o4$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:BTR1702-C33D26.08551825052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305242302.7f3eac12@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > and it would be stealing from others by her getting > > > endorsements and winning prize money under false pretenses. She would > > > be actually a worst sneak than someone taking anabolic steroids. > > > > So you say. Other people disagree. Other people look at Slayer power as > > something a girl is born with as a potential and when it reaches its > > full expression, it's part of her natural abililty. > > And even though potential Slayer power may be something that is "given" > to a girl at birth, guess what: so's her DNA. No one is going to argue that > someone should be barred from athletics because their DNA is too strong. Okay. Not sure we disagree here.

2003-05-25 18:13:14-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bar907$le$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > news:bap9o3$8st$1@news3.bu.edu... > > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >In article <baodoh$h5j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > > ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > > >> "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > > >> > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > > >> > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > >> > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > >> > level, right? > > >> > > >> The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > > >> She then would be cheating. > > > > >Which rule in basketball forbids telekinesis? > > > > And besides, all Willow would have to do is use her telekinesis > > to make it look like she was the one handling the ball. She > > could easily make full-court jump shots. That sort of thing > > does happen from time to time, after all, and it's certainly > > not beyond the realm of possibility that someone could learn > > to do it consistently. > > Because whether or not people can catch it, she's still using her magic, > not her hands, to make the shot. Is there a rule in basketball that says you have to use your hands to make a shot?

2003-05-25 18:13:14-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bar907$le$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > news:bap9o3$8st$1@news3.bu.edu... > > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >In article <baodoh$h5j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > > ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > > >> "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > > >> > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > > >> > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > >> > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > >> > level, right? > > >> > > >> The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > > >> She then would be cheating. > > > > >Which rule in basketball forbids telekinesis? > > > > And besides, all Willow would have to do is use her telekinesis > > to make it look like she was the one handling the ball. She > > could easily make full-court jump shots. That sort of thing > > does happen from time to time, after all, and it's certainly > > not beyond the realm of possibility that someone could learn > > to do it consistently. > > Because whether or not people can catch it, she's still using her magic, > not her hands, to make the shot. Is there a rule in basketball that says you have to use your hands to make a shot?

2003-05-25 18:14:26-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bar8qk$ap$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... > > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > >news:bao6bs$b66$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > > >> Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about > > >> Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your > > > > >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external > > >measures to enhance their game. > > > > So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? > > Only humans are allowed, you know. > > > >> reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > > >> to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > >> chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > >> level, right? > > > > >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of > > >basketball. She then would be cheating. > > > > Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > > not allowed. > > It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your > own hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are > covered. So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the game asking god to lead them to victory?

2003-05-25 18:14:26-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bar8qk$ap$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... > > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > >news:bao6bs$b66$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > > >> Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about > > >> Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your > > > > >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external > > >measures to enhance their game. > > > > So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? > > Only humans are allowed, you know. > > > >> reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > > >> to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > >> chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > >> level, right? > > > > >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of > > >basketball. She then would be cheating. > > > > Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > > not allowed. > > It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your > own hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are > covered. So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the game asking god to lead them to victory?

2003-05-25 21:01:32-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-6EA207.09044325052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305242319.59c418d7@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241416.3e2c2ba4@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > > news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > > > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > > > > --- > > > > Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by > > > > fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. > > > > > > So anyone who breaks a record beyond what you think they should be able > > > to is automatically disqualified? > > ---- > > If it is blown away by 1500 pounds yes. If it is blown away by 300 > > pounds yes. By 50 pounds? No, but he would be tested for performance > > enhancement drugs from here to next sunday. > > And what about the girl that just happens to win *every* time but only > beats the next best competitor by 5 pounds? > > You can even test her to Monday if you like but it won't make any > difference. And that's the key. If no test can turn up a difference > between that girl and any other, I don't see how she could legally be > banned from any competitiion. ---- Then sports as we know it will die. What would be the point? The most out of shape slayer could beat any athlete in his or her shape. That fat new slayer we saw when the slayers got there powers will be able to beat the greatest no slayer track star by five seconds in the 100 meter dash. What a mockery of "Citius, Altius, Fortius". > > > > > Any normal talented and exceptional person could beat those records > > > > by a few pounds or a few seconds, but a Slayer will blow them away. > > > > > > Not necessarily. If you were to implement these kinds of "rules", a > > > Slayer could still compete and win as long as she's smart enough not to > > > overdo it. If she makes sure she wins by only a little, she still wins > > > every time, takes home the gold, and no one is any the wiser. > > > > > > > That is what I mean by human perameters. > > > > > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the taking, > > > what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 mph. > > > All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > > > fastest girl and she wins every time. > > ---- > > You are saying for her to sneak around. That would be > > dishonerable. > > And Slayers are people like anyone else. Faith is a case study in the > idea that not all Slayers wear a white hat and do the right thing. ---- Not saying none will take avantage of their powers just that they should not. > > As for sneaking around, I only think she would need to sneak because > people would be trying to ban her from competing because she's too good > at her sport. ---- Yes, because she would be so good as to render it meaningless. > > In my opinion, this is no different than those casinos in Vegas who ban > people who have the natural ability to count cards. I think that's > wrong. If a person sits down with a calculator or an ace up his sleeve > or distracts the dealer so he can switch cards, that's cheating. But if > he just plays the game using the god-given talents in his own brain, I > don't think the casino should be allowed to kick him out. So if such a > person walks into the Luxor or the Bellagio in disguise in order to > avoid be kicked out, sure he's sneaking around but I don't blame him for > it. ---- But you don't go to Vegas to complete professionally, you go to try your luck if you are Joe Average. They know if pro card counters were allowed in many people would beg off gambling due to the obvious rigging of the game against the casual player. It is not in the casino's interest to have that happen. A better analogy would be a professional card playing league where competition is the point as well as the prize money. But even their talent is something they have developed over time, not handed to them and again they are not so outside of the human norm. The point is a SLAYER WOULD NEED NO EFFORT TO WIN WHATSOEVER, unless they play against other slayers. Then you will have to change the game. Perhaps like make baseball stadiums with the distance from home plate to deep center field something like 1600 feet, if we estrapolate from the idea that a slayer is about four times stronger than the strongest ordinary human male. Or more cheaply deaden the ball to the point that is practically a NERF ball. How silly. > > > Sure she could get away with it but would you admire > > someone like that who is stealing from a person who is breaking his or > > her neck trying to shave off another quarter of a second of their > > time? > > It doesn't meet the legal definition of theft. Sorry. --- It meets the moral one. And I feel sorry for the normal second place finisher because unbeknowst to her (or him if she competes against the men), no matter how hard he/she works to win, he will never win. Will the Slayer be smart enough to let someone else win? Perhaps, but that is even more insulting. ---->Hunter

2003-05-25 21:01:32-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<BTR1702-6EA207.09044325052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > In article <32f29bdf.0305242319.59c418d7@posting.google.com>, > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:<BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241416.3e2c2ba4@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > > news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > > > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > > > > --- > > > > Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by > > > > fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. > > > > > > So anyone who breaks a record beyond what you think they should be able > > > to is automatically disqualified? > > ---- > > If it is blown away by 1500 pounds yes. If it is blown away by 300 > > pounds yes. By 50 pounds? No, but he would be tested for performance > > enhancement drugs from here to next sunday. > > And what about the girl that just happens to win *every* time but only > beats the next best competitor by 5 pounds? > > You can even test her to Monday if you like but it won't make any > difference. And that's the key. If no test can turn up a difference > between that girl and any other, I don't see how she could legally be > banned from any competitiion. ---- Then sports as we know it will die. What would be the point? The most out of shape slayer could beat any athlete in his or her shape. That fat new slayer we saw when the slayers got there powers will be able to beat the greatest no slayer track star by five seconds in the 100 meter dash. What a mockery of "Citius, Altius, Fortius". > > > > > Any normal talented and exceptional person could beat those records > > > > by a few pounds or a few seconds, but a Slayer will blow them away. > > > > > > Not necessarily. If you were to implement these kinds of "rules", a > > > Slayer could still compete and win as long as she's smart enough not to > > > overdo it. If she makes sure she wins by only a little, she still wins > > > every time, takes home the gold, and no one is any the wiser. > > > > > > > That is what I mean by human perameters. > > > > > > And when millions of dollars in endorsements are there for the taking, > > > what makes you think a girl with Slayer powers is going to run 40 mph. > > > All she'd have to do is run just a little bit faster than the next > > > fastest girl and she wins every time. > > ---- > > You are saying for her to sneak around. That would be > > dishonerable. > > And Slayers are people like anyone else. Faith is a case study in the > idea that not all Slayers wear a white hat and do the right thing. ---- Not saying none will take avantage of their powers just that they should not. > > As for sneaking around, I only think she would need to sneak because > people would be trying to ban her from competing because she's too good > at her sport. ---- Yes, because she would be so good as to render it meaningless. > > In my opinion, this is no different than those casinos in Vegas who ban > people who have the natural ability to count cards. I think that's > wrong. If a person sits down with a calculator or an ace up his sleeve > or distracts the dealer so he can switch cards, that's cheating. But if > he just plays the game using the god-given talents in his own brain, I > don't think the casino should be allowed to kick him out. So if such a > person walks into the Luxor or the Bellagio in disguise in order to > avoid be kicked out, sure he's sneaking around but I don't blame him for > it. ---- But you don't go to Vegas to complete professionally, you go to try your luck if you are Joe Average. They know if pro card counters were allowed in many people would beg off gambling due to the obvious rigging of the game against the casual player. It is not in the casino's interest to have that happen. A better analogy would be a professional card playing league where competition is the point as well as the prize money. But even their talent is something they have developed over time, not handed to them and again they are not so outside of the human norm. The point is a SLAYER WOULD NEED NO EFFORT TO WIN WHATSOEVER, unless they play against other slayers. Then you will have to change the game. Perhaps like make baseball stadiums with the distance from home plate to deep center field something like 1600 feet, if we estrapolate from the idea that a slayer is about four times stronger than the strongest ordinary human male. Or more cheaply deaden the ball to the point that is practically a NERF ball. How silly. > > > Sure she could get away with it but would you admire > > someone like that who is stealing from a person who is breaking his or > > her neck trying to shave off another quarter of a second of their > > time? > > It doesn't meet the legal definition of theft. Sorry. --- It meets the moral one. And I feel sorry for the normal second place finisher because unbeknowst to her (or him if she competes against the men), no matter how hard he/she works to win, he will never win. Will the Slayer be smart enough to let someone else win? Perhaps, but that is even more insulting. ---->Hunter

2003-05-25 21:24:24-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-1D674E.18115125052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <bar9r7$2o4$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:BTR1702-C33D26.08551825052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305242302.7f3eac12@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > and it would be stealing from others by her getting > > > > endorsements and winning prize money under false pretenses. She would > > > > be actually a worst sneak than someone taking anabolic steroids. > > > > > > So you say. Other people disagree. Other people look at Slayer power as > > > something a girl is born with as a potential and when it reaches its > > > full expression, it's part of her natural abililty. > > > > And even though potential Slayer power may be something that is "given" > > to a girl at birth, guess what: so's her DNA. No one is going to argue that > > someone should be barred from athletics because their DNA is too strong. > > Okay. Not sure we disagree here. I'm not really sure we do disagree that much. You yourself said that it would be okay for Slayers to compete because they're using their own ability, which is not cheating. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 21:24:24-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-1D674E.18115125052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <bar9r7$2o4$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:BTR1702-C33D26.08551825052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305242302.7f3eac12@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > and it would be stealing from others by her getting > > > > endorsements and winning prize money under false pretenses. She would > > > > be actually a worst sneak than someone taking anabolic steroids. > > > > > > So you say. Other people disagree. Other people look at Slayer power as > > > something a girl is born with as a potential and when it reaches its > > > full expression, it's part of her natural abililty. > > > > And even though potential Slayer power may be something that is "given" > > to a girl at birth, guess what: so's her DNA. No one is going to argue that > > someone should be barred from athletics because their DNA is too strong. > > Okay. Not sure we disagree here. I'm not really sure we do disagree that much. You yourself said that it would be okay for Slayers to compete because they're using their own ability, which is not cheating. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 21:25:52-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message news:barm5f$l36$1@blue.rahul.net... > In article <barari$57t$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > >> You could wire the girl up with all sorts of strain meters and blood > >> pressure monitors and the like when she's taking the test. > >You know, the girl could just not do her best in the first place. That way > >there might not be enough suspicion to even consider testing her. > > Once the existence of Slayers (or rather, girls-with-20-times-normal-human- > strength) is discovered, such tests would become as routine as drug tests. > A girl couldn't avoid the test just by not doing well. Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 21:25:52-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message news:barm5f$l36$1@blue.rahul.net... > In article <barari$57t$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > >> You could wire the girl up with all sorts of strain meters and blood > >> pressure monitors and the like when she's taking the test. > >You know, the girl could just not do her best in the first place. That way > >there might not be enough suspicion to even consider testing her. > > Once the existence of Slayers (or rather, girls-with-20-times-normal-human- > strength) is discovered, such tests would become as routine as drug tests. > A girl couldn't avoid the test just by not doing well. Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 21:28:10-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <barqjv$due$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:BTR1702-648ADA.18142625052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > > In article <bar8qk$ap$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > > <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > > > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > > >news:bao6bs$b66$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > > > > > > >> Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about > > > > >> Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your > > > > > > > > >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external > > > > >measures to enhance their game. > > > > > > > > So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? > > > > > > Only humans are allowed, you know. > > > > > > > >> reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > > > > >> to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > > > >> chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > > > >> level, right? > > > > > > > > >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of > > > > >basketball. She then would be cheating. > > > > > > > > Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > > > > not allowed. > > > > > > It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than > > > your own hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers > > > are covered. > > > > So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the game > > asking god to lead them to victory? > > You know, I don't understand why you're trying to refute my point since I > pretty much agree with you. Slayer strength is part of their own > ability. I was just addressing your point that the only means by which a player can score a basket is by using one's own hands. I don't see the difference between Willow calling upon the magick of her goddess to sink a basket and a team praying to Jesus to sink a basket. > Besides, prayer doesn't always work. (what about the teams that pray and > lose?) All it's really good for is raising confidence. How do you know? How do you know god isn't making the difference?

2003-05-25 21:28:10-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <barqjv$due$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:BTR1702-648ADA.18142625052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > > In article <bar8qk$ap$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > > <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > > > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > > >news:bao6bs$b66$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > > > > > > >> Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about > > > > >> Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your > > > > > > > > >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external > > > > >measures to enhance their game. > > > > > > > > So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? > > > > > > Only humans are allowed, you know. > > > > > > > >> reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > > > > >> to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > > > >> chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > > > >> level, right? > > > > > > > > >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of > > > > >basketball. She then would be cheating. > > > > > > > > Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > > > > not allowed. > > > > > > It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than > > > your own hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers > > > are covered. > > > > So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the game > > asking god to lead them to victory? > > You know, I don't understand why you're trying to refute my point since I > pretty much agree with you. Slayer strength is part of their own > ability. I was just addressing your point that the only means by which a player can score a basket is by using one's own hands. I don't see the difference between Willow calling upon the magick of her goddess to sink a basket and a team praying to Jesus to sink a basket. > Besides, prayer doesn't always work. (what about the teams that pray and > lose?) All it's really good for is raising confidence. How do you know? How do you know god isn't making the difference?

2003-05-25 21:29:04-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-648ADA.18142625052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <bar8qk$ap$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > >news:bao6bs$b66$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > > > > >> Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about > > > >> Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your > > > > > > >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external > > > >measures to enhance their game. > > > > > > So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? > > > > Only humans are allowed, you know. > > > > > >> reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > > > >> to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > > >> chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > > >> level, right? > > > > > > >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of > > > >basketball. She then would be cheating. > > > > > > Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > > > not allowed. > > > > It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your > > own hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are > > covered. > > So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the game > asking god to lead them to victory? You know, I don't understand why you're trying to refute my point since I pretty much agree with you. Slayer strength is part of their own ability. Besides, prayer doesn't always work. (what about the teams that pray and lose?) All it's really good for is raising confidence. And there's nothing wrong with raising your confidence. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 21:29:04-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-648ADA.18142625052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <bar8qk$ap$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > >news:bao6bs$b66$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > > > > >> Too much natural ability, yes. But there's nothing natural about > > > >> Slayer powers. They're supernatural by definition. Going by your > > > > > > >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external > > > >measures to enhance their game. > > > > > > So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? > > > > Only humans are allowed, you know. > > > > > >> reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > > > >> to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > > >> chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > > >> level, right? > > > > > > >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of > > > >basketball. She then would be cheating. > > > > > > Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > > > not allowed. > > > > It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your > > own hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are > > covered. > > So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the game > asking god to lead them to victory? You know, I don't understand why you're trying to refute my point since I pretty much agree with you. Slayer strength is part of their own ability. Besides, prayer doesn't always work. (what about the teams that pray and lose?) All it's really good for is raising confidence. And there's nothing wrong with raising your confidence. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 21:30:26-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <barsqq$k6g$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:BTR1702-129239.18131425052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > > In article <bar907$le$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > > <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > > > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > news:bap9o3$8st$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > >In article <baodoh$h5j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > > > > ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > > > > > > >> > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her > > > > >> > telekinesis > > > > >> > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > > > >> > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > > > >> > level, right? > > > > >> > > > > >> The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of > basketball. > > > > >> She then would be cheating. > > > > > > > > >Which rule in basketball forbids telekinesis? > > > > > > > > And besides, all Willow would have to do is use her telekinesis > > > > to make it look like she was the one handling the ball. She > > > > could easily make full-court jump shots. That sort of thing > > > > does happen from time to time, after all, and it's certainly > > > > not beyond the realm of possibility that someone could learn > > > > to do it consistently. > > > > > > Because whether or not people can catch it, she's still using her > > > magic, not her hands, to make the shot. > > > > Is there a rule in basketball that says you have to use your hands to > > make a shot? > > http://www.basketball.com/nba/rules/comments.shtml > > FIELD GOAL ATTEMPT > > A player is attempting a field goal when he has the ball and is (in the > judgment of the official) in the act of shooting or trying to attempt to > shoot. It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand. His > arm(s) might be held so that he cannot actually make an attempt. He is > thus deprived of an opportunity to score and is entitled to two free throw > attempts. If a player is fouled when tapping a tossed ball or a rebound > toward or into the basket, he is not considered to be "trying for goal." > If a live ball is in flight when time expires, the goal, if made, shall > count. > > "It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand" assumes that > it must be in the hand in the first place. Besides, there's a reason why > you never see ballplayers using foreign objects to tip in shots. > > If Willow took the shot herself and used telekinesis to make her shot go > in, that's no different than offensive goaltending. Okay, and then my question about prayer still stands. Willow is not a telekinetic. She doesn't use telekinesis. She calls upon the magick of various gods and goddesses. How is that different from a team gathering in a group and calling upon the power of Jesus?

2003-05-25 21:30:26-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <barsqq$k6g$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:BTR1702-129239.18131425052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > > In article <bar907$le$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > > <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > > > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > news:bap9o3$8st$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > > >In article <baodoh$h5j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > > > > ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > > > > > > >> > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her > > > > >> > telekinesis > > > > >> > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > > > >> > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > > > >> > level, right? > > > > >> > > > > >> The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of > basketball. > > > > >> She then would be cheating. > > > > > > > > >Which rule in basketball forbids telekinesis? > > > > > > > > And besides, all Willow would have to do is use her telekinesis > > > > to make it look like she was the one handling the ball. She > > > > could easily make full-court jump shots. That sort of thing > > > > does happen from time to time, after all, and it's certainly > > > > not beyond the realm of possibility that someone could learn > > > > to do it consistently. > > > > > > Because whether or not people can catch it, she's still using her > > > magic, not her hands, to make the shot. > > > > Is there a rule in basketball that says you have to use your hands to > > make a shot? > > http://www.basketball.com/nba/rules/comments.shtml > > FIELD GOAL ATTEMPT > > A player is attempting a field goal when he has the ball and is (in the > judgment of the official) in the act of shooting or trying to attempt to > shoot. It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand. His > arm(s) might be held so that he cannot actually make an attempt. He is > thus deprived of an opportunity to score and is entitled to two free throw > attempts. If a player is fouled when tapping a tossed ball or a rebound > toward or into the basket, he is not considered to be "trying for goal." > If a live ball is in flight when time expires, the goal, if made, shall > count. > > "It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand" assumes that > it must be in the hand in the first place. Besides, there's a reason why > you never see ballplayers using foreign objects to tip in shots. > > If Willow took the shot herself and used telekinesis to make her shot go > in, that's no different than offensive goaltending. Okay, and then my question about prayer still stands. Willow is not a telekinetic. She doesn't use telekinesis. She calls upon the magick of various gods and goddesses. How is that different from a team gathering in a group and calling upon the power of Jesus?

2003-05-25 21:31:48-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <barqdv$dem$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > news:barm5f$l36$1@blue.rahul.net... > > In article <barari$57t$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> > wrote: > > >> You could wire the girl up with all sorts of strain meters and blood > > >> pressure monitors and the like when she's taking the test. > > >You know, the girl could just not do her best in the first place. > > >That way there might not be enough suspicion to even consider testing her. > > > > Once the existence of Slayers (or rather, > girls-with-20-times-normal-human- > > strength) is discovered, such tests would become as routine as drug > > tests. A girl couldn't avoid the test just by not doing well. > > Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? Especially given the fact that even after extremely high-profile supernatural events (as shown in ANGEL this season), people *still* seem to be unaware of the supernatural.

2003-05-25 21:31:48-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <barqdv$dem$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > news:barm5f$l36$1@blue.rahul.net... > > In article <barari$57t$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> > wrote: > > >> You could wire the girl up with all sorts of strain meters and blood > > >> pressure monitors and the like when she's taking the test. > > >You know, the girl could just not do her best in the first place. > > >That way there might not be enough suspicion to even consider testing her. > > > > Once the existence of Slayers (or rather, > girls-with-20-times-normal-human- > > strength) is discovered, such tests would become as routine as drug > > tests. A girl couldn't avoid the test just by not doing well. > > Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? Especially given the fact that even after extremely high-profile supernatural events (as shown in ANGEL this season), people *still* seem to be unaware of the supernatural.

2003-05-25 22:06:50-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-129239.18131425052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <bar907$le$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > news:bap9o3$8st$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > >In article <baodoh$h5j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > > > ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > > > > >> "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > > > > >> > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > > > >> > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > > >> > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > > >> > level, right? > > > >> > > > >> The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > > > >> She then would be cheating. > > > > > > >Which rule in basketball forbids telekinesis? > > > > > > And besides, all Willow would have to do is use her telekinesis > > > to make it look like she was the one handling the ball. She > > > could easily make full-court jump shots. That sort of thing > > > does happen from time to time, after all, and it's certainly > > > not beyond the realm of possibility that someone could learn > > > to do it consistently. > > > > Because whether or not people can catch it, she's still using her magic, > > not her hands, to make the shot. > > Is there a rule in basketball that says you have to use your hands to > make a shot? http://www.basketball.com/nba/rules/comments.shtml FIELD GOAL ATTEMPT A player is attempting a field goal when he has the ball and is (in the judgment of the official) in the act of shooting or trying to attempt to shoot. It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand. His arm(s) might be held so that he cannot actually make an attempt. He is thus deprived of an opportunity to score and is entitled to two free throw attempts. If a player is fouled when tapping a tossed ball or a rebound toward or into the basket, he is not considered to be "trying for goal." If a live ball is in flight when time expires, the goal, if made, shall count. "It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand" assumes that it must be in the hand in the first place. Besides, there's a reason why you never see ballplayers using foreign objects to tip in shots. If Willow took the shot herself and used telekinesis to make her shot go in, that's no different than offensive goaltending. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 22:06:50-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-129239.18131425052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <bar907$le$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > news:bap9o3$8st$1@news3.bu.edu... > > > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > >In article <baodoh$h5j$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > > > ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > > > > >> "Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > > > > > >> > reasoning, Willow could play in the NBA and use her telekinesis > > > >> > to win every single game without giving the opposing team any > > > >> > chance at all. Not her fault the others can't compete on her > > > >> > level, right? > > > >> > > > >> The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > > > >> She then would be cheating. > > > > > > >Which rule in basketball forbids telekinesis? > > > > > > And besides, all Willow would have to do is use her telekinesis > > > to make it look like she was the one handling the ball. She > > > could easily make full-court jump shots. That sort of thing > > > does happen from time to time, after all, and it's certainly > > > not beyond the realm of possibility that someone could learn > > > to do it consistently. > > > > Because whether or not people can catch it, she's still using her magic, > > not her hands, to make the shot. > > Is there a rule in basketball that says you have to use your hands to > make a shot? http://www.basketball.com/nba/rules/comments.shtml FIELD GOAL ATTEMPT A player is attempting a field goal when he has the ball and is (in the judgment of the official) in the act of shooting or trying to attempt to shoot. It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand. His arm(s) might be held so that he cannot actually make an attempt. He is thus deprived of an opportunity to score and is entitled to two free throw attempts. If a player is fouled when tapping a tossed ball or a rebound toward or into the basket, he is not considered to be "trying for goal." If a live ball is in flight when time expires, the goal, if made, shall count. "It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand" assumes that it must be in the hand in the first place. Besides, there's a reason why you never see ballplayers using foreign objects to tip in shots. If Willow took the shot herself and used telekinesis to make her shot go in, that's no different than offensive goaltending. Arnold Kim

2003-05-25 23:59:56-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305252001.72b1b3dd@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-6EA207.09044325052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305242319.59c418d7@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > Yes, because she would be so good as to render it meaningless. > > > > In my opinion, this is no different than those casinos in Vegas who ban > > people who have the natural ability to count cards. I think that's > > wrong. If a person sits down with a calculator or an ace up his sleeve > > or distracts the dealer so he can switch cards, that's cheating. But if > > he just plays the game using the god-given talents in his own brain, I > > don't think the casino should be allowed to kick him out. So if such a > > person walks into the Luxor or the Bellagio in disguise in order to > > avoid be kicked out, sure he's sneaking around but I don't blame him > > for it. > ---- > But you don't go to Vegas to complete professionally, you go to try > your luck if you are Joe Average. Really? You're not aware of the professional blackjack leagues, I guess. > They know if pro card counters were > allowed in many people would beg off gambling due to the obvious > rigging of the game against the casual player. The game is not rigged. It's just that some people can play it better than others. It's their natural ability. > It is not in the > casino's interest to have that happen. Of course it's not in their interest. Just like it's not in a Slayer's interest to not compete. Interest isn't what we're talking about. If you're going to offer a game to the public and make a business out of it, then you take your customers as you find them and kicking some out because they are just real good at the game, following the rules as you present them is, in my opinion, morally wrong. It's obviously not legally wrong because these are private entities and can do as they like but that doesn't make it ethically aboveboard. > A better analogy would be a professional card playing league where > competition is the point as well as the prize money. But even their > talent is something they have developed over time, not handed to them Not necessarily. Some people can do it just like Mozart could compose an entire symphony in his head. Literally virtuoso's at card counting. It comes to them as easily and with as little effort as you or I could identify the taste of chocolate the moment it touches our tongue. It really is an amazing talent. > and again they are not so outside of the human norm. Considering there are only about a dozen people about of 6 billion who have the ability to accurately and quickly count into a seven deck shoe, I'd say that's *way* outside the norm. Unless you've completely redefined the word "norm", that is. > The point is a SLAYER WOULD NEED NO EFFORT TO WIN WHATSOEVER, And neither do many of these card counters. Unless you consider merely having their eyes open and looking at some playing cards "effort". > > > Sure she could get away with it but would you admire > > > someone like that who is stealing from a person who is breaking his > > > or her neck trying to shave off another quarter of a second of their > > > time? > > > > It doesn't meet the legal definition of theft. Sorry. > --- > It meets the moral one. Not even necessarily that one either. This is similar to a court case that happened about 10 years ago where a game show called "Press Your Luck" sued one of its contestants for cheating and fraud. The way the game was played, there was a big board with dollar values ($100, $500, etc.) ringing the perimeter. As a flashing light randomly bounced around the board, illuminating each of the dollar values, the contestant would hit their plunger, attempting to stop the flashing light on the highest dollar value. Wherever the light stopped, that was how much money they would win. A typical winning contestant would come away with between $1500 and $3000. Until one day when a nondescript insurance salesman appeared on the show. By the time the episode was over, he had amassed over $100,000 in cash. He was able to hit his plunger and stop the flashing light on the top dollar value every single time without fail. The show accused him of cheating and refused to pay up. He sued and he won. During the trial, he demonstrated that the randomly flashing light wasn't really random at all. It had a very definite pattern to it and while it was extremely hard to detect due to how fast the lights flash, it wasn't impossible. The contestant had taped the show at home and watched it in slo-mo on his VCR, memorizing the pattern of lights so that when he appeared on the actual show, he knew exactly when to hit the plunger and stop the light where he wanted it to stop. The court ruled that the man did nothing wrong. He had no inside information, he merely prepared for the game show better than most contestants using information that was available to anyone who cared to find it and his own innate ability. The show was ordered to pay him his $100,000 and the his court costs and attorney's fees.

2003-05-25 23:59:56-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <32f29bdf.0305252001.72b1b3dd@posting.google.com>, buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-6EA207.09044325052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > In article <32f29bdf.0305242319.59c418d7@posting.google.com>, > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > Yes, because she would be so good as to render it meaningless. > > > > In my opinion, this is no different than those casinos in Vegas who ban > > people who have the natural ability to count cards. I think that's > > wrong. If a person sits down with a calculator or an ace up his sleeve > > or distracts the dealer so he can switch cards, that's cheating. But if > > he just plays the game using the god-given talents in his own brain, I > > don't think the casino should be allowed to kick him out. So if such a > > person walks into the Luxor or the Bellagio in disguise in order to > > avoid be kicked out, sure he's sneaking around but I don't blame him > > for it. > ---- > But you don't go to Vegas to complete professionally, you go to try > your luck if you are Joe Average. Really? You're not aware of the professional blackjack leagues, I guess. > They know if pro card counters were > allowed in many people would beg off gambling due to the obvious > rigging of the game against the casual player. The game is not rigged. It's just that some people can play it better than others. It's their natural ability. > It is not in the > casino's interest to have that happen. Of course it's not in their interest. Just like it's not in a Slayer's interest to not compete. Interest isn't what we're talking about. If you're going to offer a game to the public and make a business out of it, then you take your customers as you find them and kicking some out because they are just real good at the game, following the rules as you present them is, in my opinion, morally wrong. It's obviously not legally wrong because these are private entities and can do as they like but that doesn't make it ethically aboveboard. > A better analogy would be a professional card playing league where > competition is the point as well as the prize money. But even their > talent is something they have developed over time, not handed to them Not necessarily. Some people can do it just like Mozart could compose an entire symphony in his head. Literally virtuoso's at card counting. It comes to them as easily and with as little effort as you or I could identify the taste of chocolate the moment it touches our tongue. It really is an amazing talent. > and again they are not so outside of the human norm. Considering there are only about a dozen people about of 6 billion who have the ability to accurately and quickly count into a seven deck shoe, I'd say that's *way* outside the norm. Unless you've completely redefined the word "norm", that is. > The point is a SLAYER WOULD NEED NO EFFORT TO WIN WHATSOEVER, And neither do many of these card counters. Unless you consider merely having their eyes open and looking at some playing cards "effort". > > > Sure she could get away with it but would you admire > > > someone like that who is stealing from a person who is breaking his > > > or her neck trying to shave off another quarter of a second of their > > > time? > > > > It doesn't meet the legal definition of theft. Sorry. > --- > It meets the moral one. Not even necessarily that one either. This is similar to a court case that happened about 10 years ago where a game show called "Press Your Luck" sued one of its contestants for cheating and fraud. The way the game was played, there was a big board with dollar values ($100, $500, etc.) ringing the perimeter. As a flashing light randomly bounced around the board, illuminating each of the dollar values, the contestant would hit their plunger, attempting to stop the flashing light on the highest dollar value. Wherever the light stopped, that was how much money they would win. A typical winning contestant would come away with between $1500 and $3000. Until one day when a nondescript insurance salesman appeared on the show. By the time the episode was over, he had amassed over $100,000 in cash. He was able to hit his plunger and stop the flashing light on the top dollar value every single time without fail. The show accused him of cheating and refused to pay up. He sued and he won. During the trial, he demonstrated that the randomly flashing light wasn't really random at all. It had a very definite pattern to it and while it was extremely hard to detect due to how fast the lights flash, it wasn't impossible. The contestant had taped the show at home and watched it in slo-mo on his VCR, memorizing the pattern of lights so that when he appeared on the actual show, he knew exactly when to hit the plunger and stop the light where he wanted it to stop. The court ruled that the man did nothing wrong. He had no inside information, he merely prepared for the game show better than most contestants using information that was available to anyone who cared to find it and his own innate ability. The show was ordered to pay him his $100,000 and the his court costs and attorney's fees.

2003-05-26 04:00:49+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - ("traci.de" <res1n5cb@verizon.net>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-32FF92.21314825052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <barqdv$dem$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > > news:barm5f$l36$1@blue.rahul.net... > > > In article <barari$57t$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> > > wrote: > > > >> You could wire the girl up with all sorts of strain meters and blood > > > >> pressure monitors and the like when she's taking the test. > > > > >You know, the girl could just not do her best in the first place. > > > >That way there might not be enough suspicion to even consider testing her. > > > > > > Once the existence of Slayers (or rather, > > girls-with-20-times-normal-human- > > > strength) is discovered, such tests would become as routine as drug > > > tests. A girl couldn't avoid the test just by not doing well. > > > > Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? > > Especially given the fact that even after extremely high-profile > supernatural events (as shown in ANGEL this season), people *still* seem > to be unaware of the supernatural. Well, I for one will hope for ignorance on the part of all possible. Otherwise your bickering here just makes me see X-men... Normal humans rioting in the streets, hunting down to kill the mutant girls.. "Gingerbread" anyone?

2003-05-26 04:00:49+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - ("traci.de" <res1n5cb@verizon.net>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-32FF92.21314825052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article <barqdv$dem$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > > "Ken Arromdee" <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote in message > > news:barm5f$l36$1@blue.rahul.net... > > > In article <barari$57t$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> > > wrote: > > > >> You could wire the girl up with all sorts of strain meters and blood > > > >> pressure monitors and the like when she's taking the test. > > > > >You know, the girl could just not do her best in the first place. > > > >That way there might not be enough suspicion to even consider testing her. > > > > > > Once the existence of Slayers (or rather, > > girls-with-20-times-normal-human- > > > strength) is discovered, such tests would become as routine as drug > > > tests. A girl couldn't avoid the test just by not doing well. > > > > Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? > > Especially given the fact that even after extremely high-profile > supernatural events (as shown in ANGEL this season), people *still* seem > to be unaware of the supernatural. Well, I for one will hope for ignorance on the part of all possible. Otherwise your bickering here just makes me see X-men... Normal humans rioting in the streets, hunting down to kill the mutant girls.. "Gingerbread" anyone?

2003-05-26 09:35:18-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Scott Stearns <sstearns@mcjcomputer.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bat4pe$pr1$2@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > >news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... > > >> >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external measures > >> >to enhance their game. > >> > >> So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? > > >Only humans are allowed, you know. > > Someone really needs to give me a cite of this NBA rulebook that > has specific rules against telekinesis and vampires. > > >> >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > >> >She then would be cheating. > >> > >> Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > >> not allowed. > > >It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your own > >hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are covered. > > And if she tossed the ball up into the air and used her TK to put > it in the basket? > > >> >Most of the time, it's because those side effects have dangerous > >> >consequences in the long run. > >> > >> Believe me, the welfare of the players is NOT the foremost > >> reason various drugs are outlawed in professional sports. > > >It is a _huge_ reason, though. The only reason why there was even talk of > >Baseball banning Ephedra is because one player who died this spring had > >Ephedra in his system. > > That's bad PR at least as much as concern for the welfare of players, > though. > > >> >If you can give me any example of an athlete being disqualified for just > >> >being naturally too good, then you have a case. > >> > >> Slayers are not naturally that powerful, though. Magic and demonic > >> powers have made them that way. If a so-so basketball player made > >> a deal with the devil (or a devil, in the Buffy-verse) and suddenly > >> became an amazing player, would you call that natural talent? > > >No, but that's because he sought out an outside source. For Slayers, being > >a Slayer is part of who they are. > > But who they are was augmented by an outside source. > > It's not even like Slayers are born with super powers, so I don't > really understand this reasoning. At a certain point in their life, > something magical happens (literally) and they gain vastly increased > strength, speed and endurance. For all intents and purposes it's > exactly the same as if someone had cast an augmentation spell on > them. > > Slayers are a lot like mutants in the Marvel comics - 'round about > the time they hit puberty, they get super powers. Should a mutant > like Colossus, who can lift 75 tons, be allowed to compete in the > Olympic weight-lifting competition? And if not, please explain > the difference between him and a Slayer. Hell, he's got a better > case than a Slayer - it's his own DNA that gives him his powers, > not an external magical source. > > Pete > Are all Buffy fans this gay? It's just a TV show. -- Scott "Two of Freakin' Clubs" Stearns RSFC's Man Who Stands Around Wearing Black

2003-05-26 09:35:18-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Scott Stearns <sstearns@mcjcomputer.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bat4pe$pr1$2@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > >news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... > > >> >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external measures > >> >to enhance their game. > >> > >> So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? > > >Only humans are allowed, you know. > > Someone really needs to give me a cite of this NBA rulebook that > has specific rules against telekinesis and vampires. > > >> >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > >> >She then would be cheating. > >> > >> Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > >> not allowed. > > >It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your own > >hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are covered. > > And if she tossed the ball up into the air and used her TK to put > it in the basket? > > >> >Most of the time, it's because those side effects have dangerous > >> >consequences in the long run. > >> > >> Believe me, the welfare of the players is NOT the foremost > >> reason various drugs are outlawed in professional sports. > > >It is a _huge_ reason, though. The only reason why there was even talk of > >Baseball banning Ephedra is because one player who died this spring had > >Ephedra in his system. > > That's bad PR at least as much as concern for the welfare of players, > though. > > >> >If you can give me any example of an athlete being disqualified for just > >> >being naturally too good, then you have a case. > >> > >> Slayers are not naturally that powerful, though. Magic and demonic > >> powers have made them that way. If a so-so basketball player made > >> a deal with the devil (or a devil, in the Buffy-verse) and suddenly > >> became an amazing player, would you call that natural talent? > > >No, but that's because he sought out an outside source. For Slayers, being > >a Slayer is part of who they are. > > But who they are was augmented by an outside source. > > It's not even like Slayers are born with super powers, so I don't > really understand this reasoning. At a certain point in their life, > something magical happens (literally) and they gain vastly increased > strength, speed and endurance. For all intents and purposes it's > exactly the same as if someone had cast an augmentation spell on > them. > > Slayers are a lot like mutants in the Marvel comics - 'round about > the time they hit puberty, they get super powers. Should a mutant > like Colossus, who can lift 75 tons, be allowed to compete in the > Olympic weight-lifting competition? And if not, please explain > the difference between him and a Slayer. Hell, he's got a better > case than a Slayer - it's his own DNA that gives him his powers, > not an external magical source. > > Pete > Are all Buffy fans this gay? It's just a TV show. -- Scott "Two of Freakin' Clubs" Stearns RSFC's Man Who Stands Around Wearing Black

2003-05-26 10:02:10-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bat565$pr1$5@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >In article <bar8qk$ap$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > >> > Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > >> > not allowed. > >> > >> It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your > >> own hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are > >> covered. > > >So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the game > >asking god to lead them to victory? > > I sure think so, if only because it's borderline offensive and > just plain idiotic. Why would it be offensive for the team to say a prayer but not for Willow to invoke her goddess?

2003-05-26 10:02:10-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bat565$pr1$5@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >In article <bar8qk$ap$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" > ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > >> > Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > >> > not allowed. > >> > >> It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your > >> own hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are > >> covered. > > >So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the game > >asking god to lead them to victory? > > I sure think so, if only because it's borderline offensive and > just plain idiotic. Why would it be offensive for the team to say a prayer but not for Willow to invoke her goddess?

2003-05-26 10:02:39-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bat50j$pr1$4@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > >news:bap2ho$30i$5@news3.bu.edu... > >> BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >> >And then what? You can test her up and down but this isn't like > >> >steroids. There's no medical test for Slayerness. > >> > >> But there will be, if a need for one arises. > > >Would they naturally think of supernatural causes? Remember, as hard as > >this is to believe, the majority of the population in the Buffyverse > >still > >doesn't seem to believe in magic. > > That's just plain idiotic, but yeah. But the reason no one believes > in the supernatural is because it tends to stay out of sight. You obviously didn't watch ANGEL this season.

2003-05-26 10:02:39-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bat50j$pr1$4@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > >news:bap2ho$30i$5@news3.bu.edu... > >> BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >> >And then what? You can test her up and down but this isn't like > >> >steroids. There's no medical test for Slayerness. > >> > >> But there will be, if a need for one arises. > > >Would they naturally think of supernatural causes? Remember, as hard as > >this is to believe, the majority of the population in the Buffyverse > >still > >doesn't seem to believe in magic. > > That's just plain idiotic, but yeah. But the reason no one believes > in the supernatural is because it tends to stay out of sight. You obviously didn't watch ANGEL this season.

2003-05-26 10:05:14-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <basf04$ru0$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > In article <barqdv$dem$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> > wrote: > >Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? > > Because there are lots of them, People keep saying this but how do you know there are *lots* of them? There may only be a few dozen more than the group gathered at Buffy's house. Four dozen girls out of 6+ billion people doesn't equate to "lots".

2003-05-26 10:05:14-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <basf04$ru0$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > In article <barqdv$dem$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> > wrote: > >Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? > > Because there are lots of them, People keep saying this but how do you know there are *lots* of them? There may only be a few dozen more than the group gathered at Buffy's house. Four dozen girls out of 6+ billion people doesn't equate to "lots".

2003-05-26 11:59:24-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Scott Stearns <sstearns@mcjcomputer.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bat91u$s9s$1@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Scott Stearns <sstearns@mcjcomputer.com> wrote: > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > >> Slayers are a lot like mutants in the Marvel comics - 'round about > >> the time they hit puberty, they get super powers. Should a mutant > >> like Colossus, who can lift 75 tons, be allowed to compete in the > >> Olympic weight-lifting competition? And if not, please explain > >> the difference between him and a Slayer. Hell, he's got a better > >> case than a Slayer - it's his own DNA that gives him his powers, > >> not an external magical source. > > >Are all Buffy fans this gay? > > Actually, I'm pretty solidly straight. Sorry to disappoint you. > You sure act gay. A Queen wannabe perhaps? > > It's just a TV show. > > Then why are you wasting your time here? > Note the newsgroups list, moran. > Pete > > -- Scott "Two of Freakin' Clubs" Stearns RSFC's Man Who Stands Around Wearing Black

2003-05-26 11:59:24-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Scott Stearns <sstearns@mcjcomputer.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bat91u$s9s$1@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Scott Stearns <sstearns@mcjcomputer.com> wrote: > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > > >> Slayers are a lot like mutants in the Marvel comics - 'round about > >> the time they hit puberty, they get super powers. Should a mutant > >> like Colossus, who can lift 75 tons, be allowed to compete in the > >> Olympic weight-lifting competition? And if not, please explain > >> the difference between him and a Slayer. Hell, he's got a better > >> case than a Slayer - it's his own DNA that gives him his powers, > >> not an external magical source. > > >Are all Buffy fans this gay? > > Actually, I'm pretty solidly straight. Sorry to disappoint you. > You sure act gay. A Queen wannabe perhaps? > > It's just a TV show. > > Then why are you wasting your time here? > Note the newsgroups list, moran. > Pete > > -- Scott "Two of Freakin' Clubs" Stearns RSFC's Man Who Stands Around Wearing Black

2003-05-26 13:27:26-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <batb56$epo$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >There may only be a few dozen more than the group gathered at Buffy's > >house. > > How did Buffy gather those kids together? I wasn't watching at > that point. Did she or someone else travel all over the world? Giles did a lot of travelling. At least one trip to Shanghai that we know of as well as other places. Many of the other girls made their own way to Sunnydale. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-26 13:27:26-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <batb56$epo$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >There may only be a few dozen more than the group gathered at Buffy's > >house. > > How did Buffy gather those kids together? I wasn't watching at > that point. Did she or someone else travel all over the world? Giles did a lot of travelling. At least one trip to Shanghai that we know of as well as other places. Many of the other girls made their own way to Sunnydale. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-05-26 13:28:14+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... >> >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external measures >> >to enhance their game. >> >> So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? >Only humans are allowed, you know. Someone really needs to give me a cite of this NBA rulebook that has specific rules against telekinesis and vampires. >> >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. >> >She then would be cheating. >> >> Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are >> not allowed. >It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your own >hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are covered. And if she tossed the ball up into the air and used her TK to put it in the basket? >> >Most of the time, it's because those side effects have dangerous >> >consequences in the long run. >> >> Believe me, the welfare of the players is NOT the foremost >> reason various drugs are outlawed in professional sports. >It is a _huge_ reason, though. The only reason why there was even talk of >Baseball banning Ephedra is because one player who died this spring had >Ephedra in his system. That's bad PR at least as much as concern for the welfare of players, though. >> >If you can give me any example of an athlete being disqualified for just >> >being naturally too good, then you have a case. >> >> Slayers are not naturally that powerful, though. Magic and demonic >> powers have made them that way. If a so-so basketball player made >> a deal with the devil (or a devil, in the Buffy-verse) and suddenly >> became an amazing player, would you call that natural talent? >No, but that's because he sought out an outside source. For Slayers, being >a Slayer is part of who they are. But who they are was augmented by an outside source. It's not even like Slayers are born with super powers, so I don't really understand this reasoning. At a certain point in their life, something magical happens (literally) and they gain vastly increased strength, speed and endurance. For all intents and purposes it's exactly the same as if someone had cast an augmentation spell on them. Slayers are a lot like mutants in the Marvel comics - 'round about the time they hit puberty, they get super powers. Should a mutant like Colossus, who can lift 75 tons, be allowed to compete in the Olympic weight-lifting competition? And if not, please explain the difference between him and a Slayer. Hell, he's got a better case than a Slayer - it's his own DNA that gives him his powers, not an external magical source. Pete

2003-05-26 13:28:14+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... >> >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external measures >> >to enhance their game. >> >> So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? >Only humans are allowed, you know. Someone really needs to give me a cite of this NBA rulebook that has specific rules against telekinesis and vampires. >> >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. >> >She then would be cheating. >> >> Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are >> not allowed. >It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your own >hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are covered. And if she tossed the ball up into the air and used her TK to put it in the basket? >> >Most of the time, it's because those side effects have dangerous >> >consequences in the long run. >> >> Believe me, the welfare of the players is NOT the foremost >> reason various drugs are outlawed in professional sports. >It is a _huge_ reason, though. The only reason why there was even talk of >Baseball banning Ephedra is because one player who died this spring had >Ephedra in his system. That's bad PR at least as much as concern for the welfare of players, though. >> >If you can give me any example of an athlete being disqualified for just >> >being naturally too good, then you have a case. >> >> Slayers are not naturally that powerful, though. Magic and demonic >> powers have made them that way. If a so-so basketball player made >> a deal with the devil (or a devil, in the Buffy-verse) and suddenly >> became an amazing player, would you call that natural talent? >No, but that's because he sought out an outside source. For Slayers, being >a Slayer is part of who they are. But who they are was augmented by an outside source. It's not even like Slayers are born with super powers, so I don't really understand this reasoning. At a certain point in their life, something magical happens (literally) and they gain vastly increased strength, speed and endurance. For all intents and purposes it's exactly the same as if someone had cast an augmentation spell on them. Slayers are a lot like mutants in the Marvel comics - 'round about the time they hit puberty, they get super powers. Should a mutant like Colossus, who can lift 75 tons, be allowed to compete in the Olympic weight-lifting competition? And if not, please explain the difference between him and a Slayer. Hell, he's got a better case than a Slayer - it's his own DNA that gives him his powers, not an external magical source. Pete

2003-05-26 13:30:01+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >news:bap9o3$8st$1@news3.bu.edu... >> As long as Willow only used her powers in ways that mimicked >> the other players, or enhanced herself to Slayer levels like >> she did when fighting Buffy at the end of season six, how would >> what she was doing be any different than what a Slayer >> competing against normal humans does? Willow's magical powers >> are just as much inherent to her as Buffy's Slayer powers. >Because Willow's magical powers are, as I elaborated in another post, >outside of the bounds of basketball rules. Again, please cite the rule that says magic is not allowed. As you or someone else said, players have to use their hands. Fine. So answer my question above of what happens if Willow uses magic to boost herself to Slayer levels, as we've already seen her do? She'd be using the strength, speed and endurance of her own body. Except that strength, speed and endurance would be magically generated, just like a Slayer's. Where's the problem? Pete

2003-05-26 13:30:01+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >news:bap9o3$8st$1@news3.bu.edu... >> As long as Willow only used her powers in ways that mimicked >> the other players, or enhanced herself to Slayer levels like >> she did when fighting Buffy at the end of season six, how would >> what she was doing be any different than what a Slayer >> competing against normal humans does? Willow's magical powers >> are just as much inherent to her as Buffy's Slayer powers. >Because Willow's magical powers are, as I elaborated in another post, >outside of the bounds of basketball rules. Again, please cite the rule that says magic is not allowed. As you or someone else said, players have to use their hands. Fine. So answer my question above of what happens if Willow uses magic to boost herself to Slayer levels, as we've already seen her do? She'd be using the strength, speed and endurance of her own body. Except that strength, speed and endurance would be magically generated, just like a Slayer's. Where's the problem? Pete

2003-05-26 13:32:03+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >news:bap2ho$30i$5@news3.bu.edu... >> BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >And then what? You can test her up and down but this isn't like >> >steroids. There's no medical test for Slayerness. >> >> But there will be, if a need for one arises. >Would they naturally think of supernatural causes? Remember, as hard as >this is to believe, the majority of the population in the Buffyverse still >doesn't seem to believe in magic. That's just plain idiotic, but yeah. But the reason no one believes in the supernatural is because it tends to stay out of sight. Super-powered teenaged girls popping up in athletic competitions all over the world is another kettle of fish. And besides, we've seen several examples of ordinary people who have accepted the existence of the supernatural and even used it for their own ends. Why not the people running professional sports? Pete

2003-05-26 13:32:03+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >news:bap2ho$30i$5@news3.bu.edu... >> BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >And then what? You can test her up and down but this isn't like >> >steroids. There's no medical test for Slayerness. >> >> But there will be, if a need for one arises. >Would they naturally think of supernatural causes? Remember, as hard as >this is to believe, the majority of the population in the Buffyverse still >doesn't seem to believe in magic. That's just plain idiotic, but yeah. But the reason no one believes in the supernatural is because it tends to stay out of sight. Super-powered teenaged girls popping up in athletic competitions all over the world is another kettle of fish. And besides, we've seen several examples of ordinary people who have accepted the existence of the supernatural and even used it for their own ends. Why not the people running professional sports? Pete

2003-05-26 13:35:01+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <bar8qk$ap$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: >> > Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are >> > not allowed. >> >> It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your >> own hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are >> covered. >So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the game >asking god to lead them to victory? I sure think so, if only because it's borderline offensive and just plain idiotic. Note to all athletes, everywhere in the world - the vast majority of gods have much more important things to worry about than whether or not you win a game. Pete

2003-05-26 13:35:01+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <bar8qk$ap$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Arnold Kim" ><kim5@erols.com> wrote: >> > Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are >> > not allowed. >> >> It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your >> own hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are >> covered. >So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the game >asking god to lead them to victory? I sure think so, if only because it's borderline offensive and just plain idiotic. Note to all athletes, everywhere in the world - the vast majority of gods have much more important things to worry about than whether or not you win a game. Pete

2003-05-26 13:40:37+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Ken Arromdee <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: >In article <barqdv$dem$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >>Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? >Because there are lots of them, and they're not *all* going to keep a low >profile, and it only takes a couple of them for the general idea of their >existence to become known. And I haven't seen anyone yet address the question of what happens when two or more Slayers end up in competition with each other? It's going to happen, probably pretty damned quickly since any Slayers who decide to compete in a given sport are going to go straight to the top. A Slayer can take it easy and still beat normal human opponents. They'll be a little faster, stronger, better, but not necessarily enough to make people wonder what's going on. But against another Slayer, that's just not possible. If both Slayers want to win, they're going to have to exert themselves far above what's possible for normal humans in order to out-do the other Slayer. Or are we supposed to believe that these Slayers who are making sure to keep a low profile and not exert themselves to superhuman standards are all going to work together to make sure no one blows the secret? "Okay, on Wednesday, Betty wins. On Thursday, it's Latoya. On Friday..." Pete

2003-05-26 13:40:37+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Ken Arromdee <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: >In article <barqdv$dem$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >>Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? >Because there are lots of them, and they're not *all* going to keep a low >profile, and it only takes a couple of them for the general idea of their >existence to become known. And I haven't seen anyone yet address the question of what happens when two or more Slayers end up in competition with each other? It's going to happen, probably pretty damned quickly since any Slayers who decide to compete in a given sport are going to go straight to the top. A Slayer can take it easy and still beat normal human opponents. They'll be a little faster, stronger, better, but not necessarily enough to make people wonder what's going on. But against another Slayer, that's just not possible. If both Slayers want to win, they're going to have to exert themselves far above what's possible for normal humans in order to out-do the other Slayer. Or are we supposed to believe that these Slayers who are making sure to keep a low profile and not exert themselves to superhuman standards are all going to work together to make sure no one blows the secret? "Okay, on Wednesday, Betty wins. On Thursday, it's Latoya. On Friday..." Pete

2003-05-26 13:46:03-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <batb56$epo$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >In article <basf04$ru0$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > >(Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > >> >Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? > >> > >> Because there are lots of them, > > >People keep saying this but how do you know there are *lots* of them? > > How do we know there aren't? Why should we use your assumptions > over anyone elses? I'm not saying you should. I thought it was clear that I was pointing out that *any* assumptions are not accurate. > >There may only be a few dozen more than the group gathered at Buffy's > >house. > > How did Buffy gather those kids together? I wasn't watching at > that point. Did she or someone else travel all over the world? Many came to her on their own, sent by their Watchers. Giles rounded up the rest.

2003-05-26 13:46:03-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <batb56$epo$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >In article <basf04$ru0$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > >(Ken Arromdee) wrote: > > >> >Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? > >> > >> Because there are lots of them, > > >People keep saying this but how do you know there are *lots* of them? > > How do we know there aren't? Why should we use your assumptions > over anyone elses? I'm not saying you should. I thought it was clear that I was pointing out that *any* assumptions are not accurate. > >There may only be a few dozen more than the group gathered at Buffy's > >house. > > How did Buffy gather those kids together? I wasn't watching at > that point. Did she or someone else travel all over the world? Many came to her on their own, sent by their Watchers. Giles rounded up the rest.

2003-05-26 13:47:53-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <batate$epo$1@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >In article <bat565$pr1$5@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger > ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > >> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >> >So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the > >> >game asking god to lead them to victory? > >> > >> I sure think so, if only because it's borderline offensive and > >> just plain idiotic. > > >Why would it be offensive for the team to say a prayer but not for > >Willow to invoke her goddess? > > I think invoking any god is stupid. I personally don't find it > offensive, but I could easily understand people who do. I'm > just saying God, Allah, Zeus, Willow's Goddess, whoever, they > have better things to do. Well, then there's no debate then. This discussion was assuming Willow could use magick to affect the course of a game. If she's doing that, then her goddess obviously doesn't have better things to do.

2003-05-26 13:47:53-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <batate$epo$1@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >In article <bat565$pr1$5@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger > ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > >> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >> >So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the > >> >game asking god to lead them to victory? > >> > >> I sure think so, if only because it's borderline offensive and > >> just plain idiotic. > > >Why would it be offensive for the team to say a prayer but not for > >Willow to invoke her goddess? > > I think invoking any god is stupid. I personally don't find it > offensive, but I could easily understand people who do. I'm > just saying God, Allah, Zeus, Willow's Goddess, whoever, they > have better things to do. Well, then there's no debate then. This discussion was assuming Willow could use magick to affect the course of a game. If she's doing that, then her goddess obviously doesn't have better things to do.

2003-05-26 14:41:02+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Scott Stearns <sstearns@mcjcomputer.com> wrote: >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >> Slayers are a lot like mutants in the Marvel comics - 'round about >> the time they hit puberty, they get super powers. Should a mutant >> like Colossus, who can lift 75 tons, be allowed to compete in the >> Olympic weight-lifting competition? And if not, please explain >> the difference between him and a Slayer. Hell, he's got a better >> case than a Slayer - it's his own DNA that gives him his powers, >> not an external magical source. >Are all Buffy fans this gay? Actually, I'm pretty solidly straight. Sorry to disappoint you. > It's just a TV show. Then why are you wasting your time here? Pete

2003-05-26 14:41:02+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Scott Stearns <sstearns@mcjcomputer.com> wrote: >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >> Slayers are a lot like mutants in the Marvel comics - 'round about >> the time they hit puberty, they get super powers. Should a mutant >> like Colossus, who can lift 75 tons, be allowed to compete in the >> Olympic weight-lifting competition? And if not, please explain >> the difference between him and a Slayer. Hell, he's got a better >> case than a Slayer - it's his own DNA that gives him his powers, >> not an external magical source. >Are all Buffy fans this gay? Actually, I'm pretty solidly straight. Sorry to disappoint you. > It's just a TV show. Then why are you wasting your time here? Pete

2003-05-26 15:12:46+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <bat565$pr1$5@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the game >> >asking god to lead them to victory? >> >> I sure think so, if only because it's borderline offensive and >> just plain idiotic. >Why would it be offensive for the team to say a prayer but not for >Willow to invoke her goddess? I think invoking any god is stupid. I personally don't find it offensive, but I could easily understand people who do. I'm just saying God, Allah, Zeus, Willow's Goddess, whoever, they have better things to do. And honestly, do all those players who credit God with helping them to win honestly believe God is against their opponents? I don't see any other way to look at it, personally. Pete

2003-05-26 15:12:46+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <bat565$pr1$5@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >So should teams be disqualified when they say a prayer before the game >> >asking god to lead them to victory? >> >> I sure think so, if only because it's borderline offensive and >> just plain idiotic. >Why would it be offensive for the team to say a prayer but not for >Willow to invoke her goddess? I think invoking any god is stupid. I personally don't find it offensive, but I could easily understand people who do. I'm just saying God, Allah, Zeus, Willow's Goddess, whoever, they have better things to do. And honestly, do all those players who credit God with helping them to win honestly believe God is against their opponents? I don't see any other way to look at it, personally. Pete

2003-05-26 15:14:14+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <bat50j$pr1$4@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >> That's just plain idiotic, but yeah. But the reason no one believes >> in the supernatural is because it tends to stay out of sight. >You obviously didn't watch ANGEL this season. I did, in fact. That's why I said tends. Honestly, that was just bad writing. If we're going to assume bad writing, then yes, a Slayer could break every athletic record in the book and no one would think anything of it. Pete

2003-05-26 15:14:14+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <bat50j$pr1$4@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >> That's just plain idiotic, but yeah. But the reason no one believes >> in the supernatural is because it tends to stay out of sight. >You obviously didn't watch ANGEL this season. I did, in fact. That's why I said tends. Honestly, that was just bad writing. If we're going to assume bad writing, then yes, a Slayer could break every athletic record in the book and no one would think anything of it. Pete

2003-05-26 15:16:54+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <basf04$ru0$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net >(Ken Arromdee) wrote: >> >Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? >> >> Because there are lots of them, >People keep saying this but how do you know there are *lots* of them? How do we know there aren't? Why should we use your assumptions over anyone elses? >There may only be a few dozen more than the group gathered at Buffy's >house. How did Buffy gather those kids together? I wasn't watching at that point. Did she or someone else travel all over the world? >Four dozen girls out of 6+ billion people doesn't equate to "lots". I'd say there'd have to be more than that. For one thing, when does Slayer potential go away? There must be women of all ages who at one point might have become Slayers. Who's to say that an 90 year old great-grandmother wasn't called? And now that all the potentials have been made Slayers, doesn't that mean that whatever force is behind this has to make more potentials, for when those Slayers die? If you follow it to its logical albeit extreme outcome, every woman in the world might become a Slayer. Pete

2003-05-26 15:16:54+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <basf04$ru0$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net >(Ken Arromdee) wrote: >> >Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? >> >> Because there are lots of them, >People keep saying this but how do you know there are *lots* of them? How do we know there aren't? Why should we use your assumptions over anyone elses? >There may only be a few dozen more than the group gathered at Buffy's >house. How did Buffy gather those kids together? I wasn't watching at that point. Did she or someone else travel all over the world? >Four dozen girls out of 6+ billion people doesn't equate to "lots". I'd say there'd have to be more than that. For one thing, when does Slayer potential go away? There must be women of all ages who at one point might have become Slayers. Who's to say that an 90 year old great-grandmother wasn't called? And now that all the potentials have been made Slayers, doesn't that mean that whatever force is behind this has to make more potentials, for when those Slayers die? If you follow it to its logical albeit extreme outcome, every woman in the world might become a Slayer. Pete

2003-05-26 16:35:28+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Scott Stearns <sstearns@mcjcomputer.com> wrote: >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >news:bat91u$s9s$1@news3.bu.edu... >> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Scott Stearns <sstearns@mcjcomputer.com> wrote: >> >Are all Buffy fans this gay? >> >> Actually, I'm pretty solidly straight. Sorry to disappoint you. >> >You sure act gay. A Queen wannabe perhaps? That's it, yes. You've got me. >> > It's just a TV show. >> >> Then why are you wasting your time here? >> >Note the newsgroups list, moran. Okay, that's rich. I normally don't pick on typos, but that's just beautiful. On the other hand, I do have to apologize for cross-posting to rec.sport.college.football. I have no idea who started it or how many cross-posts I made before I noticed and started trimming, or how many times I've forgotten to trim since then. I'll take better care from now on. But moran? Damn, that just made my day. Pete

2003-05-26 16:35:28+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Scott Stearns <sstearns@mcjcomputer.com> wrote: >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message >news:bat91u$s9s$1@news3.bu.edu... >> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Scott Stearns <sstearns@mcjcomputer.com> wrote: >> >Are all Buffy fans this gay? >> >> Actually, I'm pretty solidly straight. Sorry to disappoint you. >> >You sure act gay. A Queen wannabe perhaps? That's it, yes. You've got me. >> > It's just a TV show. >> >> Then why are you wasting your time here? >> >Note the newsgroups list, moran. Okay, that's rich. I normally don't pick on typos, but that's just beautiful. On the other hand, I do have to apologize for cross-posting to rec.sport.college.football. I have no idea who started it or how many cross-posts I made before I noticed and started trimming, or how many times I've forgotten to trim since then. I'll take better care from now on. But moran? Damn, that just made my day. Pete

2003-05-26 18:38:17-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bat4pe$pr1$2@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > >news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... > > >> >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external measures > >> >to enhance their game. > >> > >> So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? > > >Only humans are allowed, you know. > > Someone really needs to give me a cite of this NBA rulebook that > has specific rules against telekinesis and vampires. First of all, it's silly to create a rule against things that DON'T EXIST. However, players physically dominant beyond the rest of their competition do exist. You might not notice them, because they usually move on to the next level very quickly. Secondly, yes, it does seem that telekinesis is against the rules. As I've pointed out in another post in this thread: http://www.basketball.com/nba/rules/comments.shtml FIELD GOAL ATTEMPT A player is attempting a field goal when he has the ball and is (in the judgment of the official) in the act of shooting or trying to attempt to shoot. It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand. His arm(s) might be held so that he cannot actually make an attempt. He is thus deprived of an opportunity to score and is entitled to two free throw attempts. If a player is fouled when tapping a tossed ball or a rebound toward or into the basket, he is not considered to be "trying for goal." If a live ball is in flight when time expires, the goal, if made, shall count. "It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand" assumes that it must be in the hand in the first place. Besides, there's a reason why you never see ballplayers using foreign objects to tip in shots. If Willow took the shot herself and used telekinesis to make her shot go in, that's no different than offensive goaltending. > >> >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > >> >She then would be cheating. > >> > >> Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > >> not allowed. > > >It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your own > >hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are covered. > > And if she tossed the ball up into the air and used her TK to put > it in the basket? Offensive goaltending. > >> >Most of the time, it's because those side effects have dangerous > >> >consequences in the long run. > >> > >> Believe me, the welfare of the players is NOT the foremost > >> reason various drugs are outlawed in professional sports. > > >It is a _huge_ reason, though. The only reason why there was even talk of > >Baseball banning Ephedra is because one player who died this spring had > >Ephedra in his system. > > That's bad PR at least as much as concern for the welfare of players, > though. Either way, it's not because of the idea of a level playing field. > >> >If you can give me any example of an athlete being disqualified for just > >> >being naturally too good, then you have a case. > >> > >> Slayers are not naturally that powerful, though. Magic and demonic > >> powers have made them that way. If a so-so basketball player made > >> a deal with the devil (or a devil, in the Buffy-verse) and suddenly > >> became an amazing player, would you call that natural talent? > > >No, but that's because he sought out an outside source. For Slayers, being > >a Slayer is part of who they are. > > But who they are was augmented by an outside source. You could argue augmented, I could just as easily argue unlocked. Yes, their powers were given to them, but that doesn't mean they could have internalized them somehow as well. You're not going to deny that your DNA is part of who you are, but where does that come from? An outside source- your parents. Atheletes have laser eye surgery or constantly take nutritional supplements to improve their performance, all of which are outside sources, and no one would object to them. So the "outside source" argument is not valid. > It's not even like Slayers are born with super powers, so I don't > really understand this reasoning. At a certain point in their life, > something magical happens (literally) and they gain vastly increased > strength, speed and endurance. For all intents and purposes it's > exactly the same as if someone had cast an augmentation spell on > them. But, as far as we know, they _are_ picked out from birth. > Slayers are a lot like mutants in the Marvel comics - 'round about > the time they hit puberty, they get super powers. Should a mutant > like Colossus, who can lift 75 tons, be allowed to compete in the > Olympic weight-lifting competition? And if not, please explain > the difference between him and a Slayer. Hell, he's got a better > case than a Slayer - it's his own DNA that gives him his powers, > not an external magical source. Sure, he _should_ go ahead. (You could argue that, as Magneto does, mutants are a different species from humans. And it does seem that, the equestrian event aside, the Olympics are human-only. Properly trained gorillas could easily win the weightlifting competition, but they don't.) Arnold Kim

2003-05-26 18:38:17-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bat4pe$pr1$2@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > >"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message > >news:baovom$30i$1@news3.bu.edu... > > >> >But it's a part of who they are. They're not going to external measures > >> >to enhance their game. > >> > >> So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? > > >Only humans are allowed, you know. > > Someone really needs to give me a cite of this NBA rulebook that > has specific rules against telekinesis and vampires. First of all, it's silly to create a rule against things that DON'T EXIST. However, players physically dominant beyond the rest of their competition do exist. You might not notice them, because they usually move on to the next level very quickly. Secondly, yes, it does seem that telekinesis is against the rules. As I've pointed out in another post in this thread: http://www.basketball.com/nba/rules/comments.shtml FIELD GOAL ATTEMPT A player is attempting a field goal when he has the ball and is (in the judgment of the official) in the act of shooting or trying to attempt to shoot. It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand. His arm(s) might be held so that he cannot actually make an attempt. He is thus deprived of an opportunity to score and is entitled to two free throw attempts. If a player is fouled when tapping a tossed ball or a rebound toward or into the basket, he is not considered to be "trying for goal." If a live ball is in flight when time expires, the goal, if made, shall count. "It is not essential that the ball leave the shooter's hand" assumes that it must be in the hand in the first place. Besides, there's a reason why you never see ballplayers using foreign objects to tip in shots. If Willow took the shot herself and used telekinesis to make her shot go in, that's no different than offensive goaltending. > >> >The use of telekinesis is, by itself, outside of the rules of basketball. > >> >She then would be cheating. > >> > >> Please cite the rule in basketball that says psionic powers are > >> not allowed. > > >It's the rule where you're not allowed to use anything other than your own > >hands to get the ball into the basket. I'd say psionic powers are covered. > > And if she tossed the ball up into the air and used her TK to put > it in the basket? Offensive goaltending. > >> >Most of the time, it's because those side effects have dangerous > >> >consequences in the long run. > >> > >> Believe me, the welfare of the players is NOT the foremost > >> reason various drugs are outlawed in professional sports. > > >It is a _huge_ reason, though. The only reason why there was even talk of > >Baseball banning Ephedra is because one player who died this spring had > >Ephedra in his system. > > That's bad PR at least as much as concern for the welfare of players, > though. Either way, it's not because of the idea of a level playing field. > >> >If you can give me any example of an athlete being disqualified for just > >> >being naturally too good, then you have a case. > >> > >> Slayers are not naturally that powerful, though. Magic and demonic > >> powers have made them that way. If a so-so basketball player made > >> a deal with the devil (or a devil, in the Buffy-verse) and suddenly > >> became an amazing player, would you call that natural talent? > > >No, but that's because he sought out an outside source. For Slayers, being > >a Slayer is part of who they are. > > But who they are was augmented by an outside source. You could argue augmented, I could just as easily argue unlocked. Yes, their powers were given to them, but that doesn't mean they could have internalized them somehow as well. You're not going to deny that your DNA is part of who you are, but where does that come from? An outside source- your parents. Atheletes have laser eye surgery or constantly take nutritional supplements to improve their performance, all of which are outside sources, and no one would object to them. So the "outside source" argument is not valid. > It's not even like Slayers are born with super powers, so I don't > really understand this reasoning. At a certain point in their life, > something magical happens (literally) and they gain vastly increased > strength, speed and endurance. For all intents and purposes it's > exactly the same as if someone had cast an augmentation spell on > them. But, as far as we know, they _are_ picked out from birth. > Slayers are a lot like mutants in the Marvel comics - 'round about > the time they hit puberty, they get super powers. Should a mutant > like Colossus, who can lift 75 tons, be allowed to compete in the > Olympic weight-lifting competition? And if not, please explain > the difference between him and a Slayer. Hell, he's got a better > case than a Slayer - it's his own DNA that gives him his powers, > not an external magical source. Sure, he _should_ go ahead. (You could argue that, as Magneto does, mutants are a different species from humans. And it does seem that, the equestrian event aside, the Olympics are human-only. Properly trained gorillas could easily win the weightlifting competition, but they don't.) Arnold Kim

2003-05-26 19:01:07+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <batb56$epo$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> Because there are lots of them, >> >> >People keep saying this but how do you know there are *lots* of them? >> >> How do we know there aren't? Why should we use your assumptions >> over anyone elses? >I'm not saying you should. I thought it was clear that I was pointing >out that *any* assumptions are not accurate. Fair enough. But the discussion is more interesting if there are lots of them. And as time goes by, I think the world would see more and more of them as Slayers start living longer. > >There may only be a few dozen more than the group gathered at Buffy's >> >house. >> >> How did Buffy gather those kids together? I wasn't watching at >> that point. Did she or someone else travel all over the world? >Many came to her on their own, sent by their Watchers. Giles rounded up >the rest. I thought the Bringers had almost wiped out the Potentials and their Watchers? How many did they kill, do we know? Because it just now occurs to me that for every Potential the Bringers killed, another will probably emerge. Those replacements might or might not already be accounted for in the Potentials who ended up living with Buffy. Pete

2003-05-26 19:01:07+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <batb56$epo$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> Because there are lots of them, >> >> >People keep saying this but how do you know there are *lots* of them? >> >> How do we know there aren't? Why should we use your assumptions >> over anyone elses? >I'm not saying you should. I thought it was clear that I was pointing >out that *any* assumptions are not accurate. Fair enough. But the discussion is more interesting if there are lots of them. And as time goes by, I think the world would see more and more of them as Slayers start living longer. > >There may only be a few dozen more than the group gathered at Buffy's >> >house. >> >> How did Buffy gather those kids together? I wasn't watching at >> that point. Did she or someone else travel all over the world? >Many came to her on their own, sent by their Watchers. Giles rounded up >the rest. I thought the Bringers had almost wiped out the Potentials and their Watchers? How many did they kill, do we know? Because it just now occurs to me that for every Potential the Bringers killed, another will probably emerge. Those replacements might or might not already be accounted for in the Potentials who ended up living with Buffy. Pete

2003-05-26 19:07:34-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bat5gl$pr1$6@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Ken Arromdee <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > >In article <barqdv$dem$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > >>Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? > > >Because there are lots of them, and they're not *all* going to keep a low > >profile, and it only takes a couple of them for the general idea of their > >existence to become known. > > And I haven't seen anyone yet address the question of what happens > when two or more Slayers end up in competition with each other? It's > going to happen, probably pretty damned quickly since any Slayers who > decide to compete in a given sport are going to go straight to the > top. > > A Slayer can take it easy and still beat normal human opponents. > They'll be a little faster, stronger, better, but not necessarily > enough to make people wonder what's going on. But against another > Slayer, that's just not possible. If both Slayers want to win, > they're going to have to exert themselves far above what's > possible for normal humans in order to out-do the other Slayer. First of all, it depends on the sport. They probably wouldn't be competing in something like track and field because there simply isn't big money there. And if they were playing basketball, for instance, they might not even be directly competing against other slayers. Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon may have been the game's two best players at one point, but they never guarded each other. So for women, that pretty much leaves golf and tennis. With golf, there's the issue of control. Hitting the ball too far, which a Slayer will be prone to do, will be a bad thing. And aside from ability to drive the ball, golf requires a number of skills that don't have anything to do with a Slayer's strength and agility. With tennis you have a bit of a problem. You're right in that the ball will be hit harder and faster, and that would create a problem. But you don't have to coordinate losing or anything like that. All that would have to happen is either one of them start to slack off before it gets out of hand. That's what they'd do if they had any idea of what might happen to their future in the sport. There's no rule against playing only for a paycheck and not to win- you could argue that many athletes are like that these days. Arnold Kim

2003-05-26 19:07:34-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Peter Meilinger" <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote in message news:bat5gl$pr1$6@news3.bu.edu... > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer Ken Arromdee <arromdee@violet.rahul.net> wrote: > >In article <barqdv$dem$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com> wrote: > > >>Why would their existence be discovered if they keep a low profile? > > >Because there are lots of them, and they're not *all* going to keep a low > >profile, and it only takes a couple of them for the general idea of their > >existence to become known. > > And I haven't seen anyone yet address the question of what happens > when two or more Slayers end up in competition with each other? It's > going to happen, probably pretty damned quickly since any Slayers who > decide to compete in a given sport are going to go straight to the > top. > > A Slayer can take it easy and still beat normal human opponents. > They'll be a little faster, stronger, better, but not necessarily > enough to make people wonder what's going on. But against another > Slayer, that's just not possible. If both Slayers want to win, > they're going to have to exert themselves far above what's > possible for normal humans in order to out-do the other Slayer. First of all, it depends on the sport. They probably wouldn't be competing in something like track and field because there simply isn't big money there. And if they were playing basketball, for instance, they might not even be directly competing against other slayers. Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon may have been the game's two best players at one point, but they never guarded each other. So for women, that pretty much leaves golf and tennis. With golf, there's the issue of control. Hitting the ball too far, which a Slayer will be prone to do, will be a bad thing. And aside from ability to drive the ball, golf requires a number of skills that don't have anything to do with a Slayer's strength and agility. With tennis you have a bit of a problem. You're right in that the ball will be hit harder and faster, and that would create a problem. But you don't have to coordinate losing or anything like that. All that would have to happen is either one of them start to slack off before it gets out of hand. That's what they'd do if they had any idea of what might happen to their future in the sport. There's no rule against playing only for a paycheck and not to win- you could argue that many athletes are like that these days. Arnold Kim

2003-05-26 21:20:19-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bato9j$sel$2@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >In article <batb56$epo$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger > ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > >> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >> >> Because there are lots of them, > >> > >> >People keep saying this but how do you know there are *lots* of them? > >> > >> How do we know there aren't? Why should we use your assumptions > >> over anyone elses? > > >I'm not saying you should. I thought it was clear that I was pointing > >out that *any* assumptions are not accurate. > > Fair enough. But the discussion is more interesting if there are > lots of them. And as time goes by, I think the world would see > more and more of them as Slayers start living longer. > > > >There may only be a few dozen more than the group gathered at Buffy's > >> >house. > >> > >> How did Buffy gather those kids together? I wasn't watching at > >> that point. Did she or someone else travel all over the world? > > >Many came to her on their own, sent by their Watchers. Giles rounded up > >the rest. > > I thought the Bringers had almost wiped out the Potentials and > their Watchers? How many did they kill, do we know? Because it > just now occurs to me that for every Potential the Bringers > killed, another will probably emerge. If killing a potential "called" a replacement, what would be the point of killing them in the first place? You'd never get anywhere with it.

2003-05-26 21:20:19-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bato9j$sel$2@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >In article <batb56$epo$3@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger > ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: > >> In alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >> >> Because there are lots of them, > >> > >> >People keep saying this but how do you know there are *lots* of them? > >> > >> How do we know there aren't? Why should we use your assumptions > >> over anyone elses? > > >I'm not saying you should. I thought it was clear that I was pointing > >out that *any* assumptions are not accurate. > > Fair enough. But the discussion is more interesting if there are > lots of them. And as time goes by, I think the world would see > more and more of them as Slayers start living longer. > > > >There may only be a few dozen more than the group gathered at Buffy's > >> >house. > >> > >> How did Buffy gather those kids together? I wasn't watching at > >> that point. Did she or someone else travel all over the world? > > >Many came to her on their own, sent by their Watchers. Giles rounded up > >the rest. > > I thought the Bringers had almost wiped out the Potentials and > their Watchers? How many did they kill, do we know? Because it > just now occurs to me that for every Potential the Bringers > killed, another will probably emerge. If killing a potential "called" a replacement, what would be the point of killing them in the first place? You'd never get anywhere with it.

2003-05-26 21:21:33-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bau8ct$s06$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > In article <BTR1702-56D229.10021026052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >Why would it be offensive for the team to say a prayer but not for > >Willow to invoke her goddess? > > I think the point is that both are offensive. Someone who prays for > victory is trying to cheat. It doesn't matter if prayers don't work--someone who > is trying to cheat using a method that doesn't work is still being > dishonest. Okay, so back to my original question: should teams and/or individual players be forbidden to pray> And should any team or player who is caught praying be disqualified?

2003-05-26 21:21:33-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bau8ct$s06$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > In article <BTR1702-56D229.10021026052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >Why would it be offensive for the team to say a prayer but not for > >Willow to invoke her goddess? > > I think the point is that both are offensive. Someone who prays for > victory is trying to cheat. It doesn't matter if prayers don't work--someone who > is trying to cheat using a method that doesn't work is still being > dishonest. Okay, so back to my original question: should teams and/or individual players be forbidden to pray> And should any team or player who is caught praying be disqualified?

2003-05-26 22:36:29-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net>)


On Sun, 25 May 2003 16:25:24 -0400, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >> So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? > >Only humans are allowed, you know. Where's it say that?

2003-05-26 22:36:29-04:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net>)


On Sun, 25 May 2003 16:25:24 -0400, "Arnold Kim" <kim5@erols.com> wrote: >> So vampires could play in the NBA? Or other sorts of demons? > >Only humans are allowed, you know. Where's it say that?

2003-05-27 01:27:03+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (stardreamer@mindspring.com)


In article <bau8ct$s06$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net says... > >In article <BTR1702-56D229.10021026052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, >BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >>Why would it be offensive for the team to say a prayer but not for >>Willow to invoke her goddess? > >I think the point is that both are offensive. Someone who prays for victory >is trying to cheat. It doesn't matter if prayers don't work--someone who is >trying to cheat using a method that doesn't work is still being dishonest. Nicely reasoned! I think I'm going to store that line of thought for future use. Celine -- Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat "Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring." -- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_

2003-05-27 01:27:03+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (stardreamer@mindspring.com)


In article <bau8ct$s06$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net says... > >In article <BTR1702-56D229.10021026052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, >BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >>Why would it be offensive for the team to say a prayer but not for >>Willow to invoke her goddess? > >I think the point is that both are offensive. Someone who prays for victory >is trying to cheat. It doesn't matter if prayers don't work--someone who is >trying to cheat using a method that doesn't work is still being dishonest. Nicely reasoned! I think I'm going to store that line of thought for future use. Celine -- Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat "Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring." -- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_

2003-05-27 04:13:40+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Daniel Seriff <my.crow's.toenail@can.of.creamed.corn>)


On Mon, 26 May 2003 21:21:33 -0500, BTR1701 wrote (in message <BTR1702-65924D.21213326052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>): > In article <bau8ct$s06$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > >> In article <BTR1702-56D229.10021026052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, >> BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >>> Why would it be offensive for the team to say a prayer but not for >>> Willow to invoke her goddess? >> >> I think the point is that both are offensive. Someone who prays for >> victory is trying to cheat. It doesn't matter if prayers don't >> work--someone who >> is trying to cheat using a method that doesn't work is still being >> dishonest. > > Okay, so back to my original question: should teams and/or individual > players be forbidden to pray> > > And should any team or player who is caught praying be disqualified? We should just outlaw religion. -- Daniel Seriff I think I'll just hang around a while and poke my first love's remains with a stick.

2003-05-27 04:13:40+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Daniel Seriff <my.crow's.toenail@can.of.creamed.corn>)


On Mon, 26 May 2003 21:21:33 -0500, BTR1701 wrote (in message <BTR1702-65924D.21213326052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>): > In article <bau8ct$s06$1@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net > (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > >> In article <BTR1702-56D229.10021026052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, >> BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >>> Why would it be offensive for the team to say a prayer but not for >>> Willow to invoke her goddess? >> >> I think the point is that both are offensive. Someone who prays for >> victory is trying to cheat. It doesn't matter if prayers don't >> work--someone who >> is trying to cheat using a method that doesn't work is still being >> dishonest. > > Okay, so back to my original question: should teams and/or individual > players be forbidden to pray> > > And should any team or player who is caught praying be disqualified? We should just outlaw religion. -- Daniel Seriff I think I'll just hang around a while and poke my first love's remains with a stick.

2003-05-27 06:57:50-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<32f29bdf.0305242245.3d642082@posting.google.com>... > Are you suffering from Smaug69 disease? And what, pray tell, would be the symptoms of this disease? Would it be the ability to tell two shows' storylines apart? ;-) BTW, I'm still waiting for that connection. I guess I will have to watch Chosen again 'cause I certainly didn't see it the first three times I watched it. LOL. > C'mon! If Micheal Jordan did > not loose his ability to play high level B-ball he would be more of a > phenom than he was and no I will not ban him. I put him up to show > that while enormously talented, his skills will wane and his skills > were not outside human norms. If you cannot grasp the difference > between MJ and say Kennedy the Vampire Slayer abilities then I am > wasting my time. If it were a contest of vampire slaying skills, Kennedy would be all over it, but I'm afraid her training and her abilities are not conducive to playing basketball very well. MJ would definitely dominate if he was still in his prime. Smaug69

2003-05-27 06:57:50-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<32f29bdf.0305242245.3d642082@posting.google.com>... > Are you suffering from Smaug69 disease? And what, pray tell, would be the symptoms of this disease? Would it be the ability to tell two shows' storylines apart? ;-) BTW, I'm still waiting for that connection. I guess I will have to watch Chosen again 'cause I certainly didn't see it the first three times I watched it. LOL. > C'mon! If Micheal Jordan did > not loose his ability to play high level B-ball he would be more of a > phenom than he was and no I will not ban him. I put him up to show > that while enormously talented, his skills will wane and his skills > were not outside human norms. If you cannot grasp the difference > between MJ and say Kennedy the Vampire Slayer abilities then I am > wasting my time. If it were a contest of vampire slaying skills, Kennedy would be all over it, but I'm afraid her training and her abilities are not conducive to playing basketball very well. MJ would definitely dominate if he was still in his prime. Smaug69

2003-05-27 09:25:02+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <barabt$3vl$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, kim5@erols.com says... > > "Hunter" <buffhunter@my-deja.com> wrote in message > news:32f29bdf.0305242319.59c418d7@posting.google.com... > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241416.3e2c2ba4@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > > news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > > > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > > > > --- > > > > Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by > > > > fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. > > > > > > So anyone who breaks a record beyond what you think they should be able > > > to is automatically disqualified? > > ---- > > If it is blown away by 1500 pounds yes. If it is blown away by 300 > > pounds yes. By 50 pounds? No, but he would be tested for performance > > enhancement drugs from here to next sunday. > > No one kicked Wilt Chamberlain out of the NBA for scoring 100 points in a > game. Secretariat wasn't put to sleep for winning the Kentucky Derby (I > think it was the Derby) by 22 1/2 lengths. > > Arnold Kim > --- As I said, those are exceptions to the rule, those are ironically, once in a generation exceptions. They are not that far out of the norm. They will have bad days at the track or on the court. They will get old and will be surpassed. A Slayer is WAY out of the normal human range. A slayer can get out of bed with a bad case of the flu and still score 200, nay, 300 points in a game. A Slayer who can run at 40 mph plus can beat Secretariat for God's sake!! And by more than a nose. Rona when she is 90 years old will be able to out score Micheal Jordan in his prime, nevermind "Wilt the Stilt". And there will be lots of them, not one per generation like Joe Dimaggio replacing Lou Gerig then Mickey Mantle replacing Joe D. I say again: Why can't anyone see that allowing Slayers will destroy "The Game", whatever the game is? Do you think anyone with normal human abilities, including the next Mark McGuire will bother to play? -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-05-27 09:25:02+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <barabt$3vl$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, kim5@erols.com says... > > "Hunter" <buffhunter@my-deja.com> wrote in message > news:32f29bdf.0305242319.59c418d7@posting.google.com... > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:<BTR1702-CF21FE.18595224052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305241416.3e2c2ba4@posting.google.com>, > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > > news:<BTR1702-6D6E79.09051924052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>... > > > > > In article <32f29bdf.0305240210.2bc0369f@posting.google.com>, > > > > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote: > > > > > > > > And how do you define "normal human specifications"? > > > > --- > > > > Current Olympic records. Sure, some of them will be broken but by > > > > fractions not by multipules like how a Slayer would. > > > > > > So anyone who breaks a record beyond what you think they should be able > > > to is automatically disqualified? > > ---- > > If it is blown away by 1500 pounds yes. If it is blown away by 300 > > pounds yes. By 50 pounds? No, but he would be tested for performance > > enhancement drugs from here to next sunday. > > No one kicked Wilt Chamberlain out of the NBA for scoring 100 points in a > game. Secretariat wasn't put to sleep for winning the Kentucky Derby (I > think it was the Derby) by 22 1/2 lengths. > > Arnold Kim > --- As I said, those are exceptions to the rule, those are ironically, once in a generation exceptions. They are not that far out of the norm. They will have bad days at the track or on the court. They will get old and will be surpassed. A Slayer is WAY out of the normal human range. A slayer can get out of bed with a bad case of the flu and still score 200, nay, 300 points in a game. A Slayer who can run at 40 mph plus can beat Secretariat for God's sake!! And by more than a nose. Rona when she is 90 years old will be able to out score Micheal Jordan in his prime, nevermind "Wilt the Stilt". And there will be lots of them, not one per generation like Joe Dimaggio replacing Lou Gerig then Mickey Mantle replacing Joe D. I say again: Why can't anyone see that allowing Slayers will destroy "The Game", whatever the game is? Do you think anyone with normal human abilities, including the next Mark McGuire will bother to play? -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-05-27 09:39:00-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


smaug86@yahoo.com (Smaug69) wrote in message news:<5fe774aa.0305270557.14ddd356@posting.google.com>... > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<32f29bdf.0305242245.3d642082@posting.google.com>... > > > Are you suffering from Smaug69 disease? > > And what, pray tell, would be the symptoms of this disease? Would it > be the ability to tell two shows' storylines apart? ;-) > > BTW, I'm still waiting for that connection. I guess I will have to > watch Chosen again 'cause I certainly didn't see it the first three > times I watched it. LOL. --- That The First and Jasmine were not connected after all? Yes I admit I was wrong about that. The similarities in many of the techniques they used to get rid of their enemies were similar, but in the end they weren't connected. However, the Shansu phrophecy maybe coming true. Indeed, Angel handed Buffy the amulet he got from Lilah to Buffy along with showing her the Sunnydale File, There is simply no why you can argue now that "Angel" and BtVS do not share the same universe. The final answer to the Shanshu prophecy will be on "Angel". Will you watch? > > > C'mon! If Micheal Jordan did > > not loose his ability to play high level B-ball he would be more of a > > phenom than he was and no I will not ban him. I put him up to show > > that while enormously talented, his skills will wane and his skills > > were not outside human norms. If you cannot grasp the difference > > between MJ and say Kennedy the Vampire Slayer abilities then I am > > wasting my time. > > If it were a contest of vampire slaying skills, Kennedy would be all > over it, but I'm afraid her training and her abilities are not > conducive to playing basketball very well. MJ would definitely > dominate if he was still in his prime. > > Smaug69 ---- You think MJ could jump 10 to 30 feet straight up in a single bound? Did MJ have the ability to run up and down the court dribbling at 30 mph? Could he catch an arrow in mid flight, something that requires tremendous reflexes and hand-eye coordination? I think if she could do that she can slam dunk a basketball or make Hail Mary throws from the opposite end of the court underpresser from her opponents and make the shot everytime? ---->Hunter

2003-05-27 09:39:00-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


smaug86@yahoo.com (Smaug69) wrote in message news:<5fe774aa.0305270557.14ddd356@posting.google.com>... > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<32f29bdf.0305242245.3d642082@posting.google.com>... > > > Are you suffering from Smaug69 disease? > > And what, pray tell, would be the symptoms of this disease? Would it > be the ability to tell two shows' storylines apart? ;-) > > BTW, I'm still waiting for that connection. I guess I will have to > watch Chosen again 'cause I certainly didn't see it the first three > times I watched it. LOL. --- That The First and Jasmine were not connected after all? Yes I admit I was wrong about that. The similarities in many of the techniques they used to get rid of their enemies were similar, but in the end they weren't connected. However, the Shansu phrophecy maybe coming true. Indeed, Angel handed Buffy the amulet he got from Lilah to Buffy along with showing her the Sunnydale File, There is simply no why you can argue now that "Angel" and BtVS do not share the same universe. The final answer to the Shanshu prophecy will be on "Angel". Will you watch? > > > C'mon! If Micheal Jordan did > > not loose his ability to play high level B-ball he would be more of a > > phenom than he was and no I will not ban him. I put him up to show > > that while enormously talented, his skills will wane and his skills > > were not outside human norms. If you cannot grasp the difference > > between MJ and say Kennedy the Vampire Slayer abilities then I am > > wasting my time. > > If it were a contest of vampire slaying skills, Kennedy would be all > over it, but I'm afraid her training and her abilities are not > conducive to playing basketball very well. MJ would definitely > dominate if he was still in his prime. > > Smaug69 ---- You think MJ could jump 10 to 30 feet straight up in a single bound? Did MJ have the ability to run up and down the court dribbling at 30 mph? Could he catch an arrow in mid flight, something that requires tremendous reflexes and hand-eye coordination? I think if she could do that she can slam dunk a basketball or make Hail Mary throws from the opposite end of the court underpresser from her opponents and make the shot everytime? ---->Hunter

2003-05-27 13:42:41+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <bato9j$sel$2@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >> I thought the Bringers had almost wiped out the Potentials and >> their Watchers? How many did they kill, do we know? Because it >> just now occurs to me that for every Potential the Bringers >> killed, another will probably emerge. >If killing a potential "called" a replacement, what would be the point >of killing them in the first place? You'd never get anywhere with it. You would if it took a while for the Potentials to be replaced. If you can eliminate all of them before any replacements are called/ created, then maybe you could end the Slayer line completely. But now that the First and the Bringers have been stopped, maybe the number of Potentials will go back to whatever is normal over time. If nothing else, new Potentials must be created as time goes by, simply because old Potentials die as Slayers or of simple old age. And what if the way it works is there are always X number of potentials to back up the one Slayer? When Kendra was called the number of Potentials would have doubled. Now that there are Slayers all over the place, the number of Potentials would skyrocket, and all of them would become Slayers, leading to more Potentials... Not saying that's how Joss planned for it to go, but it's an interesting idea. Pete

2003-05-27 13:42:41+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (Peter Meilinger <mellnger@bu.edu>)


BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >In article <bato9j$sel$2@news3.bu.edu>, Peter Meilinger ><mellnger@bu.edu> wrote: >> I thought the Bringers had almost wiped out the Potentials and >> their Watchers? How many did they kill, do we know? Because it >> just now occurs to me that for every Potential the Bringers >> killed, another will probably emerge. >If killing a potential "called" a replacement, what would be the point >of killing them in the first place? You'd never get anywhere with it. You would if it took a while for the Potentials to be replaced. If you can eliminate all of them before any replacements are called/ created, then maybe you could end the Slayer line completely. But now that the First and the Bringers have been stopped, maybe the number of Potentials will go back to whatever is normal over time. If nothing else, new Potentials must be created as time goes by, simply because old Potentials die as Slayers or of simple old age. And what if the way it works is there are always X number of potentials to back up the one Slayer? When Kendra was called the number of Potentials would have doubled. Now that there are Slayers all over the place, the number of Potentials would skyrocket, and all of them would become Slayers, leading to more Potentials... Not saying that's how Joss planned for it to go, but it's an interesting idea. Pete

2003-05-27 17:25:37-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bavvuh$pnd$4@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > In article <BTR1702-65924D.21213326052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> I think the point is that both are offensive. Someone who prays for > >> victory is trying to cheat. It doesn't matter if prayers don't work--someone who > >> is trying to cheat using a method that doesn't work is still being > >> dishonest. > >Okay, so back to my original question: should teams and/or individual > >players be forbidden to pray> > >And should any team or player who is caught praying be disqualified? > > Well, why do we want to stop cheating? Usually, because it's not fair to > the other team. If a popular form of cheating never works, it's not unfair > to the other team. It's still poor sportsmanship, but we can't stop all > kinds of poor sportsmanship, especially when they're as ingrained in the > culture as praying is. > > If prayers actually worked, then we should disqualify a team for praying, > yes. How do you know they don't? I mean, we've all seen those clips of some high school basketball player heaving the ball from one end of the court to the other at the buzzer only to have it go right in. How do you know the kid didn't say a silent prayer right before he did that and how do you know that whomever he was praying to didn't help the ball find the basket? Or guide his arm to let it go at precisely the right instant?

2003-05-27 17:25:37-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <bavvuh$pnd$4@blue.rahul.net>, arromdee@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote: > In article <BTR1702-65924D.21213326052003@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, > BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> I think the point is that both are offensive. Someone who prays for > >> victory is trying to cheat. It doesn't matter if prayers don't work--someone who > >> is trying to cheat using a method that doesn't work is still being > >> dishonest. > >Okay, so back to my original question: should teams and/or individual > >players be forbidden to pray> > >And should any team or player who is caught praying be disqualified? > > Well, why do we want to stop cheating? Usually, because it's not fair to > the other team. If a popular form of cheating never works, it's not unfair > to the other team. It's still poor sportsmanship, but we can't stop all > kinds of poor sportsmanship, especially when they're as ingrained in the > culture as praying is. > > If prayers actually worked, then we should disqualify a team for praying, > yes. How do you know they don't? I mean, we've all seen those clips of some high school basketball player heaving the ball from one end of the court to the other at the buzzer only to have it go right in. How do you know the kid didn't say a silent prayer right before he did that and how do you know that whomever he was praying to didn't help the ball find the basket? Or guide his arm to let it go at precisely the right instant?

2003-05-28 13:02:46-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<32f29bdf.0305270839.5aa49338@posting.google.com>... <snip> > That The First and Jasmine were not connected after all? Yes I admit I > was wrong about that. The similarities in many of the techniques they > used to get rid of their enemies were similar, but in the end they > weren't connected. Exactly. And you guys said I was nuts all this time. I wasn't making a prediction like AKnight. There was actually some logic involved. > However, the Shansu phrophecy maybe coming true. > Indeed, Angel handed Buffy the amulet he got from Lilah to Buffy along > with showing her the Sunnydale File, There is simply no why you can > argue now that "Angel" and BtVS do not share the same universe. The > final answer to the Shanshu prophecy will be on "Angel". Will you > watch? I don't know exactly what the Shansu prophecy is nor do I care to. It has nothing to do with BtVS and was never mentioned on the show. PERIOD. Angel gave Buffy some nondescript amulet that he really didn't know much about and it ended up saving the day. And since BtVS is over and done then I guess I won't ever be learning any more about it or that prophecy. > > If it were a contest of vampire slaying skills, Kennedy would be all > > over it, but I'm afraid her training and her abilities are not > > conducive to playing basketball very well. MJ would definitely > > dominate if he was still in his prime. > > > > Smaug69 > ---- > You think MJ could jump 10 to 30 feet straight up in a single bound? What does that have to do with playing basketball? > Did MJ have the ability to run up and down the court dribbling at 30 > mph? Buffy couldn't even do that. > Could he catch an arrow in mid flight, something that requires > tremendous reflexes and hand-eye coordination? Arrow catching is not a part of the game. > I think if she could do > that she can slam dunk a basketball or make Hail Mary throws from the > opposite end of the court underpresser from her opponents and make the > shot everytime? Having super strength and super speed doesn't make you a great basketball player. It certainly doesn't help you put the ball in the basket(Unless you just jump and dunk). That takes skill and coordination. Buffy's specialty is fighting vampires with wooden stakes, not dribbling a basketball or shooting from the top of the key. Smaug69

2003-05-28 13:02:46-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<32f29bdf.0305270839.5aa49338@posting.google.com>... <snip> > That The First and Jasmine were not connected after all? Yes I admit I > was wrong about that. The similarities in many of the techniques they > used to get rid of their enemies were similar, but in the end they > weren't connected. Exactly. And you guys said I was nuts all this time. I wasn't making a prediction like AKnight. There was actually some logic involved. > However, the Shansu phrophecy maybe coming true. > Indeed, Angel handed Buffy the amulet he got from Lilah to Buffy along > with showing her the Sunnydale File, There is simply no why you can > argue now that "Angel" and BtVS do not share the same universe. The > final answer to the Shanshu prophecy will be on "Angel". Will you > watch? I don't know exactly what the Shansu prophecy is nor do I care to. It has nothing to do with BtVS and was never mentioned on the show. PERIOD. Angel gave Buffy some nondescript amulet that he really didn't know much about and it ended up saving the day. And since BtVS is over and done then I guess I won't ever be learning any more about it or that prophecy. > > If it were a contest of vampire slaying skills, Kennedy would be all > > over it, but I'm afraid her training and her abilities are not > > conducive to playing basketball very well. MJ would definitely > > dominate if he was still in his prime. > > > > Smaug69 > ---- > You think MJ could jump 10 to 30 feet straight up in a single bound? What does that have to do with playing basketball? > Did MJ have the ability to run up and down the court dribbling at 30 > mph? Buffy couldn't even do that. > Could he catch an arrow in mid flight, something that requires > tremendous reflexes and hand-eye coordination? Arrow catching is not a part of the game. > I think if she could do > that she can slam dunk a basketball or make Hail Mary throws from the > opposite end of the court underpresser from her opponents and make the > shot everytime? Having super strength and super speed doesn't make you a great basketball player. It certainly doesn't help you put the ball in the basket(Unless you just jump and dunk). That takes skill and coordination. Buffy's specialty is fighting vampires with wooden stakes, not dribbling a basketball or shooting from the top of the key. Smaug69

2003-05-28 16:53:41-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <5fe774aa.0305281202.3d3f2033@posting.google.com>, smaug86@yahoo.com (Smaug69) wrote: > I don't know exactly what the Shansu prophecy is nor do I care to. It > has nothing to do with BtVS and was never mentioned on the show. > PERIOD. Angel gave Buffy some nondescript amulet that he really didn't > know much about and it ended up saving the day. And since BtVS is over > and done then I guess I won't ever be learning any more about it or > that prophecy. Just because you don't care to watch the other show to see how they are connected, doesn't mean they aren't connected.

2003-05-28 16:53:41-05:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <5fe774aa.0305281202.3d3f2033@posting.google.com>, smaug86@yahoo.com (Smaug69) wrote: > I don't know exactly what the Shansu prophecy is nor do I care to. It > has nothing to do with BtVS and was never mentioned on the show. > PERIOD. Angel gave Buffy some nondescript amulet that he really didn't > know much about and it ended up saving the day. And since BtVS is over > and done then I guess I won't ever be learning any more about it or > that prophecy. Just because you don't care to watch the other show to see how they are connected, doesn't mean they aren't connected.

2003-05-29 04:55:04+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <5fe774aa.0305281202.3d3f2033@posting.google.com>, smaug86@yahoo.com says... > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<32f29bdf.0305270839.5aa49338@posting.google.com>... > > <snip> > > > That The First and Jasmine were not connected after all? Yes I admit I > > was wrong about that. The similarities in many of the techniques they > > used to get rid of their enemies were similar, but in the end they > > weren't connected. > > Exactly. And you guys said I was nuts all this time. I wasn't making a > prediction like AKnight. There was actually some logic involved. --- My assertions were based on on screen evidence via very close parralells between the plots. I did not come up with outlandish and off the wall reasons like your seperate universes arguments. > > > However, the Shansu phrophecy maybe coming true. > > Indeed, Angel handed Buffy the amulet he got from Lilah to Buffy along > > with showing her the Sunnydale File, There is simply no why you can > > argue now that "Angel" and BtVS do not share the same universe. The > > final answer to the Shanshu prophecy will be on "Angel". Will you > > watch? > > I don't know exactly what the Shansu prophecy is nor do I care to. It > has nothing to do with BtVS and was never mentioned on the show. > PERIOD. Angel gave Buffy some nondescript amulet that he really didn't > know much about and it ended up saving the day. And since BtVS is over > and done then I guess I won't ever be learning any more about it or > that prophecy. ----- Whether or not that Spike is the Shansu vampire is to be revealed next season, but while you were right that the two plots were not directly connected, there is no way in hell can you deny the fact that Angel and BtVS occupy the same universe. To bad you are so close minded about "Angel" but to each his own. For many of the rest of us, the Buffyverse continues. We can even look forward to seeing her again and some of the others again. > > > > If it were a contest of vampire slaying skills, Kennedy would be all > > > over it, but I'm afraid her training and her abilities are not > > > conducive to playing basketball very well. MJ would definitely > > > dominate if he was still in his prime. > > > > > > Smaug69 > > ---- > > You think MJ could jump 10 to 30 feet straight up in a single bound? > > What does that have to do with playing basketball? --- I would think being able to jump 15 feet in the air would make dunking a lot easier even if you are short like Buffy don't you think? > > > Did MJ have the ability to run up and down the court dribbling at 30 > > mph? > > Buffy couldn't even do that. ---- Really? Why not? All it is timing. > > > Could he catch an arrow in mid flight, something that requires > > tremendous reflexes and hand-eye coordination? > > Arrow catching is not a part of the game. --- No but catching a ball and passing it with accuracy and shooting with accuracy is part of the game. Has something to do with hand-eye coordination me thinks. > > > I think if she could do > > that she can slam dunk a basketball or make Hail Mary throws from the > > opposite end of the court underpresser from her opponents and make the > > shot everytime? > > Having super strength and super speed doesn't make you a great > basketball player. It certainly doesn't help you put the ball in the > basket(Unless you just jump and dunk). ---- Really? Bobing and Weaving with great reflexes and fakie moves would not make you a great basketball player? You can't make a fast break with super speed? And if you are under pressure you can't use a bit of her strength to nudge one or two opponents from crowding her? > > That takes skill and coordination. ----- Really? And a Slayer does not have any of that, especially coordination? I don't recall Buffy, Faith, Kendra or Nikki falling all over themselves. It is all about controlling you limbs. > > Buffy's specialty is fighting vampires with wooden stakes, not dribbling > a basketball or shooting from the top of the key. > > Smaug69 > ----- Oh? And none of that athletisism can translate to the basketball court or any other sport? Fighting takes being able to controll your body, anticipate the moves of your opponent. Dribbling and shooting requires hand-eye coordination. If you can throw a knife I think you can throw a hail mary basket from the opposite end of the court if you are a slayer. Slayers have super human abilities. What is going to take great skill and time for a normal being to develop would be second nature for a slayer. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-05-29 04:55:04+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <5fe774aa.0305281202.3d3f2033@posting.google.com>, smaug86@yahoo.com says... > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<32f29bdf.0305270839.5aa49338@posting.google.com>... > > <snip> > > > That The First and Jasmine were not connected after all? Yes I admit I > > was wrong about that. The similarities in many of the techniques they > > used to get rid of their enemies were similar, but in the end they > > weren't connected. > > Exactly. And you guys said I was nuts all this time. I wasn't making a > prediction like AKnight. There was actually some logic involved. --- My assertions were based on on screen evidence via very close parralells between the plots. I did not come up with outlandish and off the wall reasons like your seperate universes arguments. > > > However, the Shansu phrophecy maybe coming true. > > Indeed, Angel handed Buffy the amulet he got from Lilah to Buffy along > > with showing her the Sunnydale File, There is simply no why you can > > argue now that "Angel" and BtVS do not share the same universe. The > > final answer to the Shanshu prophecy will be on "Angel". Will you > > watch? > > I don't know exactly what the Shansu prophecy is nor do I care to. It > has nothing to do with BtVS and was never mentioned on the show. > PERIOD. Angel gave Buffy some nondescript amulet that he really didn't > know much about and it ended up saving the day. And since BtVS is over > and done then I guess I won't ever be learning any more about it or > that prophecy. ----- Whether or not that Spike is the Shansu vampire is to be revealed next season, but while you were right that the two plots were not directly connected, there is no way in hell can you deny the fact that Angel and BtVS occupy the same universe. To bad you are so close minded about "Angel" but to each his own. For many of the rest of us, the Buffyverse continues. We can even look forward to seeing her again and some of the others again. > > > > If it were a contest of vampire slaying skills, Kennedy would be all > > > over it, but I'm afraid her training and her abilities are not > > > conducive to playing basketball very well. MJ would definitely > > > dominate if he was still in his prime. > > > > > > Smaug69 > > ---- > > You think MJ could jump 10 to 30 feet straight up in a single bound? > > What does that have to do with playing basketball? --- I would think being able to jump 15 feet in the air would make dunking a lot easier even if you are short like Buffy don't you think? > > > Did MJ have the ability to run up and down the court dribbling at 30 > > mph? > > Buffy couldn't even do that. ---- Really? Why not? All it is timing. > > > Could he catch an arrow in mid flight, something that requires > > tremendous reflexes and hand-eye coordination? > > Arrow catching is not a part of the game. --- No but catching a ball and passing it with accuracy and shooting with accuracy is part of the game. Has something to do with hand-eye coordination me thinks. > > > I think if she could do > > that she can slam dunk a basketball or make Hail Mary throws from the > > opposite end of the court underpresser from her opponents and make the > > shot everytime? > > Having super strength and super speed doesn't make you a great > basketball player. It certainly doesn't help you put the ball in the > basket(Unless you just jump and dunk). ---- Really? Bobing and Weaving with great reflexes and fakie moves would not make you a great basketball player? You can't make a fast break with super speed? And if you are under pressure you can't use a bit of her strength to nudge one or two opponents from crowding her? > > That takes skill and coordination. ----- Really? And a Slayer does not have any of that, especially coordination? I don't recall Buffy, Faith, Kendra or Nikki falling all over themselves. It is all about controlling you limbs. > > Buffy's specialty is fighting vampires with wooden stakes, not dribbling > a basketball or shooting from the top of the key. > > Smaug69 > ----- Oh? And none of that athletisism can translate to the basketball court or any other sport? Fighting takes being able to controll your body, anticipate the moves of your opponent. Dribbling and shooting requires hand-eye coordination. If you can throw a knife I think you can throw a hail mary basket from the opposite end of the court if you are a slayer. Slayers have super human abilities. What is going to take great skill and time for a normal being to develop would be second nature for a slayer. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-05-29 06:14:03-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.193f5cf57333cfd3989a95@news.earthlink.net>... <snip> > My assertions were based on on screen evidence via very close > parralells between the plots. I did not come up with outlandish and > off the wall reasons like your seperate universes arguments. There was no onscreen evidence on BtVS regarding what was happening on AtS for the season. All we know for sure was that Faith helped Angel. There were no details about what kind of help. We had no idea what Willow did while she was there either. Angel showed up and gave Buffy an amulet he really didn't know much about and then he promptly left. Close parallels mean nothing if there is no onscreen evidence to back up the intertwining storylines theory. > > I don't know exactly what the Shansu prophecy is nor do I care to. It > > has nothing to do with BtVS and was never mentioned on the show. > > PERIOD. Angel gave Buffy some nondescript amulet that he really didn't > > know much about and it ended up saving the day. And since BtVS is over > > and done then I guess I won't ever be learning any more about it or > > that prophecy. > ----- > Whether or not that Spike is the Shansu vampire is to be revealed next > season, but while you were right that the two plots were not directly > connected, there is no way in hell can you deny the fact that Angel > and BtVS occupy the same universe. Again, that was not the point of this exercise. > I would think being able to jump 15 feet in the air would make dunking > a lot easier even if you are short like Buffy don't you think? You have to be able to handle the basketball to get it to the other end of the court to dunk it. > > > Did MJ have the ability to run up and down the court dribbling at 30 > > > mph? > > > > Buffy couldn't even do that. > ---- > Really? Why not? All it is timing. And skill. Buffy's strength is in individual combat, not team sports. > No but catching a ball and passing it with accuracy and shooting with > accuracy is part of the game. Has something to do with hand-eye > coordination me thinks. It's a whole other kind of skill. > > Having super strength and super speed doesn't make you a great > > basketball player. It certainly doesn't help you put the ball in the > > basket(Unless you just jump and dunk). > ---- > Really? Bobing and Weaving with great reflexes and fakie moves would > not make you a great basketball player? Your theory is predicated on Buffy being able to handle a basketball with proficiency. > You can't make a fast break > with super speed? And if you are under pressure you can't use a bit of > her strength to nudge one or two opponents from crowding her? That would be an offensive foul. > > That takes skill and coordination. > ----- > Really? And a Slayer does not have any of that, especially > coordination? I don't recall Buffy, Faith, Kendra or Nikki falling all > over themselves. It is all about controlling you limbs. Controlling a wooden stake and controlling a basketball are dissimilar things. > > Buffy's specialty is fighting vampires with wooden stakes, not dribbling > > a basketball or shooting from the top of the key. > > > > Smaug69 > > > ----- > Oh? And none of that athletisism can translate to the basketball court > or any other sport? Track and Field events, yes. But we were just talking about basketball. And basketball is a team sport that requires something more than just being able to run fast and jump high. > Fighting takes being able to controll your body, > anticipate the moves of your opponent. Dribbling and shooting requires > hand-eye coordination. And usually doesn't involve fighting. ;-) > If you can throw a knife I think you can throw > a hail mary basket from the opposite end of the court if you are a > slayer. Are you telling me Buffy could sit at one end of the court and toss in shots all day long? That's a bit much. > Slayers have super human abilities. What is going to take great skill > and time for a normal being to develop would be second nature for a > slayer. Basketball skills for Buffy are not second nature. She is much better suited to dodgeball(As we saw in The Pack). Smaug69

2003-05-29 06:14:03-07:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.193f5cf57333cfd3989a95@news.earthlink.net>... <snip> > My assertions were based on on screen evidence via very close > parralells between the plots. I did not come up with outlandish and > off the wall reasons like your seperate universes arguments. There was no onscreen evidence on BtVS regarding what was happening on AtS for the season. All we know for sure was that Faith helped Angel. There were no details about what kind of help. We had no idea what Willow did while she was there either. Angel showed up and gave Buffy an amulet he really didn't know much about and then he promptly left. Close parallels mean nothing if there is no onscreen evidence to back up the intertwining storylines theory. > > I don't know exactly what the Shansu prophecy is nor do I care to. It > > has nothing to do with BtVS and was never mentioned on the show. > > PERIOD. Angel gave Buffy some nondescript amulet that he really didn't > > know much about and it ended up saving the day. And since BtVS is over > > and done then I guess I won't ever be learning any more about it or > > that prophecy. > ----- > Whether or not that Spike is the Shansu vampire is to be revealed next > season, but while you were right that the two plots were not directly > connected, there is no way in hell can you deny the fact that Angel > and BtVS occupy the same universe. Again, that was not the point of this exercise. > I would think being able to jump 15 feet in the air would make dunking > a lot easier even if you are short like Buffy don't you think? You have to be able to handle the basketball to get it to the other end of the court to dunk it. > > > Did MJ have the ability to run up and down the court dribbling at 30 > > > mph? > > > > Buffy couldn't even do that. > ---- > Really? Why not? All it is timing. And skill. Buffy's strength is in individual combat, not team sports. > No but catching a ball and passing it with accuracy and shooting with > accuracy is part of the game. Has something to do with hand-eye > coordination me thinks. It's a whole other kind of skill. > > Having super strength and super speed doesn't make you a great > > basketball player. It certainly doesn't help you put the ball in the > > basket(Unless you just jump and dunk). > ---- > Really? Bobing and Weaving with great reflexes and fakie moves would > not make you a great basketball player? Your theory is predicated on Buffy being able to handle a basketball with proficiency. > You can't make a fast break > with super speed? And if you are under pressure you can't use a bit of > her strength to nudge one or two opponents from crowding her? That would be an offensive foul. > > That takes skill and coordination. > ----- > Really? And a Slayer does not have any of that, especially > coordination? I don't recall Buffy, Faith, Kendra or Nikki falling all > over themselves. It is all about controlling you limbs. Controlling a wooden stake and controlling a basketball are dissimilar things. > > Buffy's specialty is fighting vampires with wooden stakes, not dribbling > > a basketball or shooting from the top of the key. > > > > Smaug69 > > > ----- > Oh? And none of that athletisism can translate to the basketball court > or any other sport? Track and Field events, yes. But we were just talking about basketball. And basketball is a team sport that requires something more than just being able to run fast and jump high. > Fighting takes being able to controll your body, > anticipate the moves of your opponent. Dribbling and shooting requires > hand-eye coordination. And usually doesn't involve fighting. ;-) > If you can throw a knife I think you can throw > a hail mary basket from the opposite end of the court if you are a > slayer. Are you telling me Buffy could sit at one end of the court and toss in shots all day long? That's a bit much. > Slayers have super human abilities. What is going to take great skill > and time for a normal being to develop would be second nature for a > slayer. Basketball skills for Buffy are not second nature. She is much better suited to dodgeball(As we saw in The Pack). Smaug69

2003-06-03 05:34:33+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <5fe774aa.0305290514.1de3ed7e@posting.google.com>, smaug86@yahoo.com says... > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.193f5cf57333cfd3989a95@news.earthlink.net>... > > <snip> > > > My assertions were based on on screen evidence via very close > > parralells between the plots. I did not come up with outlandish and > > off the wall reasons like your seperate universes arguments. > > There was no onscreen evidence on BtVS regarding what was happening on > AtS for the season. All we know for sure was that Faith helped Angel. > There were no details about what kind of help. We had no idea what > Willow did while she was there either. Angel showed up and gave Buffy > an amulet he really didn't know much about and then he promptly left. > Close parallels mean nothing if there is no onscreen evidence to back > up the intertwining storylines theory. ---- If you do not want to use common sense and say that Faith and Willow filled in all the details off screen and the real life reason that they did not say so on screen is that UPN does not want to avertise a WB show fine. Hey, if you want to maintain your "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" dream world because you don't like "Angel" then so be it. Everyone who is willing will enjoy "Angel" and the periodic guest spots some of the Scoobies will make. > > > > I don't know exactly what the Shansu prophecy is nor do I care to. It > > > has nothing to do with BtVS and was never mentioned on the show. > > > PERIOD. Angel gave Buffy some nondescript amulet that he really didn't > > > know much about and it ended up saving the day. And since BtVS is over > > > and done then I guess I won't ever be learning any more about it or > > > that prophecy. > > ----- > > Whether or not that Spike is the Shansu vampire is to be revealed next > > season, but while you were right that the two plots were not directly > > connected, there is no way in hell can you deny the fact that Angel > > and BtVS occupy the same universe. > > Again, that was not the point of this exercise. ---- It was last November when you were up and down saying that Angel" and BtVS were two different universes. Do you concede that you were wrong about them being in two seperate universes and JW was somehow trying to keep them apart just like I just conceded that The First and Jasmine had nothing to do with each other after all? Do you maintain the fiction that they are seperate universes? > > > I would think being able to jump 15 feet in the air would make dunking > > a lot easier even if you are short like Buffy don't you think? > > You have to be able to handle the basketball to get it to the other > end of the court to dunk it. --- And you don't think a slayer with her reflexes can't handle dribbling a basketball? > > > > > Did MJ have the ability to run up and down the court dribbling at 30 > > > > mph? > > > > > > Buffy couldn't even do that. > > ---- > > Really? Why not? All it is timing. > > And skill. Buffy's strength is in individual combat, not team sports. ---- What do you mean? Are you saying she does not have the sense to pass a basketball? Execute a hit and run play in baseball? Hell, if I was the coach I would let Buffy handle the ball most of the time and let her run rings around the opposition. If I was her manager in baseball I have her swing for the fences everytime no matter what the situation. > > > No but catching a ball and passing it with accuracy and shooting with > > accuracy is part of the game. Has something to do with hand-eye > > coordination me thinks. > > It's a whole other kind of skill. --- Aiming a basketball in to a hoop ten feet up in the air would not be easy for a slayer? C'mon! Perhaps she would need five minutes to adjust a little, but that is all. > > > > Having super strength and super speed doesn't make you a great > > > basketball player. It certainly doesn't help you put the ball in the > > > basket(Unless you just jump and dunk). > > ---- > > Really? Bobing and Weaving with great reflexes and fakie moves would > > not make you a great basketball player? > > Your theory is predicated on Buffy being able to handle a basketball > with proficiency. ---- You have not said why she would not. Ok, I will give her ten minutes to learn how to handle it. > > > You can't make a fast break > > with super speed? And if you are under pressure you can't use a bit of > > her strength to nudge one or two opponents from crowding her? > > That would be an offensive foul. --- OK, use her strength to KEEP from getting nudged. > > > > That takes skill and coordination. > > ----- > > Really? And a Slayer does not have any of that, especially > > coordination? I don't recall Buffy, Faith, Kendra or Nikki falling all > > over themselves. It is all about controlling you limbs. > > Controlling a wooden stake and controlling a basketball are dissimilar > things. ---- They react differently to gravity? I think not. Sure they have different aerodynamic properties but as I said she can adjust almost immediately. > > > > Buffy's specialty is fighting vampires with wooden stakes, not dribbling > > > a basketball or shooting from the top of the key. > > > > > > Smaug69 > > > > > ----- > > Oh? And none of that athletisism can translate to the basketball court > > or any other sport? > > Track and Field events, yes. But we were just talking about > basketball. And basketball is a team sport that requires something > more than just being able to run fast and jump high. ---- They help a lot if you can do either several times more effectively than your teammates. And as I said before, I would let Buffy have the ball almost everytime. "Pass it to Buffy, let her break away an take the shot from mid court." > > > Fighting takes being able to controll your body, > > anticipate the moves of your opponent. Dribbling and shooting requires > > hand-eye coordination. > > And usually doesn't involve fighting. ;-) ----- You have not said how someone who learns how to read an opponent in fighting cannot adapt it to Basketball. > > > If you can throw a knife I think you can throw > > a hail mary basket from the opposite end of the court if you are a > > slayer. > > Are you telling me Buffy could sit at one end of the court and toss in > shots all day long? That's a bit much. ---- Sure. She is that much more above us. Her speed, agility and hand-eye coordination is far above normal. > > > Slayers have super human abilities. What is going to take great skill > > and time for a normal being to develop would be second nature for a > > slayer. > > Basketball skills for Buffy are not second nature. She is much better > suited to dodgeball(As we saw in The Pack). > > Smaug69 > -----

2003-06-03 05:34:33+00:00 - Re: Now women can play college football - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <5fe774aa.0305290514.1de3ed7e@posting.google.com>, smaug86@yahoo.com says... > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.193f5cf57333cfd3989a95@news.earthlink.net>... > > <snip> > > > My assertions were based on on screen evidence via very close > > parralells between the plots. I did not come up with outlandish and > > off the wall reasons like your seperate universes arguments. > > There was no onscreen evidence on BtVS regarding what was happening on > AtS for the season. All we know for sure was that Faith helped Angel. > There were no details about what kind of help. We had no idea what > Willow did while she was there either. Angel showed up and gave Buffy > an amulet he really didn't know much about and then he promptly left. > Close parallels mean nothing if there is no onscreen evidence to back > up the intertwining storylines theory. ---- If you do not want to use common sense and say that Faith and Willow filled in all the details off screen and the real life reason that they did not say so on screen is that UPN does not want to avertise a WB show fine. Hey, if you want to maintain your "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" dream world because you don't like "Angel" then so be it. Everyone who is willing will enjoy "Angel" and the periodic guest spots some of the Scoobies will make. > > > > I don't know exactly what the Shansu prophecy is nor do I care to. It > > > has nothing to do with BtVS and was never mentioned on the show. > > > PERIOD. Angel gave Buffy some nondescript amulet that he really didn't > > > know much about and it ended up saving the day. And since BtVS is over > > > and done then I guess I won't ever be learning any more about it or > > > that prophecy. > > ----- > > Whether or not that Spike is the Shansu vampire is to be revealed next > > season, but while you were right that the two plots were not directly > > connected, there is no way in hell can you deny the fact that Angel > > and BtVS occupy the same universe. > > Again, that was not the point of this exercise. ---- It was last November when you were up and down saying that Angel" and BtVS were two different universes. Do you concede that you were wrong about them being in two seperate universes and JW was somehow trying to keep them apart just like I just conceded that The First and Jasmine had nothing to do with each other after all? Do you maintain the fiction that they are seperate universes? > > > I would think being able to jump 15 feet in the air would make dunking > > a lot easier even if you are short like Buffy don't you think? > > You have to be able to handle the basketball to get it to the other > end of the court to dunk it. --- And you don't think a slayer with her reflexes can't handle dribbling a basketball? > > > > > Did MJ have the ability to run up and down the court dribbling at 30 > > > > mph? > > > > > > Buffy couldn't even do that. > > ---- > > Really? Why not? All it is timing. > > And skill. Buffy's strength is in individual combat, not team sports. ---- What do you mean? Are you saying she does not have the sense to pass a basketball? Execute a hit and run play in baseball? Hell, if I was the coach I would let Buffy handle the ball most of the time and let her run rings around the opposition. If I was her manager in baseball I have her swing for the fences everytime no matter what the situation. > > > No but catching a ball and passing it with accuracy and shooting with > > accuracy is part of the game. Has something to do with hand-eye > > coordination me thinks. > > It's a whole other kind of skill. --- Aiming a basketball in to a hoop ten feet up in the air would not be easy for a slayer? C'mon! Perhaps she would need five minutes to adjust a little, but that is all. > > > > Having super strength and super speed doesn't make you a great > > > basketball player. It certainly doesn't help you put the ball in the > > > basket(Unless you just jump and dunk). > > ---- > > Really? Bobing and Weaving with great reflexes and fakie moves would > > not make you a great basketball player? > > Your theory is predicated on Buffy being able to handle a basketball > with proficiency. ---- You have not said why she would not. Ok, I will give her ten minutes to learn how to handle it. > > > You can't make a fast break > > with super speed? And if you are under pressure you can't use a bit of > > her strength to nudge one or two opponents from crowding her? > > That would be an offensive foul. --- OK, use her strength to KEEP from getting nudged. > > > > That takes skill and coordination. > > ----- > > Really? And a Slayer does not have any of that, especially > > coordination? I don't recall Buffy, Faith, Kendra or Nikki falling all > > over themselves. It is all about controlling you limbs. > > Controlling a wooden stake and controlling a basketball are dissimilar > things. ---- They react differently to gravity? I think not. Sure they have different aerodynamic properties but as I said she can adjust almost immediately. > > > > Buffy's specialty is fighting vampires with wooden stakes, not dribbling > > > a basketball or shooting from the top of the key. > > > > > > Smaug69 > > > > > ----- > > Oh? And none of that athletisism can translate to the basketball court > > or any other sport? > > Track and Field events, yes. But we were just talking about > basketball. And basketball is a team sport that requires something > more than just being able to run fast and jump high. ---- They help a lot if you can do either several times more effectively than your teammates. And as I said before, I would let Buffy have the ball almost everytime. "Pass it to Buffy, let her break away an take the shot from mid court." > > > Fighting takes being able to controll your body, > > anticipate the moves of your opponent. Dribbling and shooting requires > > hand-eye coordination. > > And usually doesn't involve fighting. ;-) ----- You have not said how someone who learns how to read an opponent in fighting cannot adapt it to Basketball. > > > If you can throw a knife I think you can throw > > a hail mary basket from the opposite end of the court if you are a > > slayer. > > Are you telling me Buffy could sit at one end of the court and toss in > shots all day long? That's a bit much. ---- Sure. She is that much more above us. Her speed, agility and hand-eye coordination is far above normal. > > > Slayers have super human abilities. What is going to take great skill > > and time for a normal being to develop would be second nature for a > > slayer. > > Basketball skills for Buffy are not second nature. She is much better > suited to dodgeball(As we saw in The Pack). > > Smaug69 > -----