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2003-04-17 11:55:35-07:00 - Do kids today even know Spock? - (hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com)


This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the TV and movies featuring that character were on so long ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that reference means. Did the humor of that scene had to be explained to kids today watching the show? A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class and nobody understood it. Some pop culture references last for a long time. Shows like "I Love Lucy" are continually being aired, so young people are familiar with them. But other once famous icons fade away in the popular conscious since young people never heard of them or, more significantly, saw their work. I don't think the original Star Trek TV series reruns get aired that much anymore in regular syndication. I remember when I was a kid and teachers would refer back to icons and we kids never heard of it. Later on in college or as adults we'd learn more watching an old movie or reading a book. I didn't see "Casablanca" until college*. Before that expressions like "Give me the letters!" or "We'll always have Paris" or "I stick my neck out for no one" meant nothing. [* If you haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.]

2003-04-17 11:55:35-07:00 - Do kids today even know Spock? - (hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com)


This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the TV and movies featuring that character were on so long ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that reference means. Did the humor of that scene had to be explained to kids today watching the show? A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class and nobody understood it. Some pop culture references last for a long time. Shows like "I Love Lucy" are continually being aired, so young people are familiar with them. But other once famous icons fade away in the popular conscious since young people never heard of them or, more significantly, saw their work. I don't think the original Star Trek TV series reruns get aired that much anymore in regular syndication. I remember when I was a kid and teachers would refer back to icons and we kids never heard of it. Later on in college or as adults we'd learn more watching an old movie or reading a book. I didn't see "Casablanca" until college*. Before that expressions like "Give me the letters!" or "We'll always have Paris" or "I stick my neck out for no one" meant nothing. [* If you haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.]

2003-04-17 15:20:06-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>, Jeff nor Lisa <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote: > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > to kids today watching the show? > > A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > and nobody understood it. > > Some pop culture references last for a long time. Shows > like "I Love Lucy" are continually being aired, so young > people are familiar with them. But other once famous > icons fade away in the popular conscious since young > people never heard of them or, more significantly, > saw their work. I don't think the original Star Trek > TV series reruns get aired that much anymore in regular > syndication. > > I remember when I was a kid and teachers would refer back > to icons and we kids never heard of it. Later on in > college or as adults we'd learn more watching an old movie > or reading a book. > > I didn't see "Casablanca" until college*. Before that expressions > like "Give me the letters!" or "We'll always have Paris" or > "I stick my neck out for no one" meant nothing. [* If you > haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] Star Trek (the original) is still on every day here. And anyone who has seen any of the follow up series, or movies knows about Vulcans. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-04-17 15:20:06-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>, Jeff nor Lisa <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote: > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > to kids today watching the show? > > A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > and nobody understood it. > > Some pop culture references last for a long time. Shows > like "I Love Lucy" are continually being aired, so young > people are familiar with them. But other once famous > icons fade away in the popular conscious since young > people never heard of them or, more significantly, > saw their work. I don't think the original Star Trek > TV series reruns get aired that much anymore in regular > syndication. > > I remember when I was a kid and teachers would refer back > to icons and we kids never heard of it. Later on in > college or as adults we'd learn more watching an old movie > or reading a book. > > I didn't see "Casablanca" until college*. Before that expressions > like "Give me the letters!" or "We'll always have Paris" or > "I stick my neck out for no one" meant nothing. [* If you > haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] Star Trek (the original) is still on every day here. And anyone who has seen any of the follow up series, or movies knows about Vulcans. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-04-17 16:02:53-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (jillun@hotmail.com)


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > to kids today watching the show? > > A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > and nobody understood it. And you have to wonder if there were many people who had NO idea about the reference to Gojira.

2003-04-17 16:02:53-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (jillun@hotmail.com)


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > to kids today watching the show? > > A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > and nobody understood it. And you have to wonder if there were many people who had NO idea about the reference to Gojira.

2003-04-17 17:36:55-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (reldevik@usa.net)


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > to kids today watching the show? > > A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > and nobody understood it. > > Some pop culture references last for a long time. Shows > like "I Love Lucy" are continually being aired, so young > people are familiar with them. But other once famous > icons fade away in the popular conscious since young > people never heard of them or, more significantly, > saw their work. I don't think the original Star Trek > TV series reruns get aired that much anymore in regular > syndication. > > I remember when I was a kid and teachers would refer back > to icons and we kids never heard of it. Later on in > college or as adults we'd learn more watching an old movie > or reading a book. > > I didn't see "Casablanca" until college*. Before that expressions > like "Give me the letters!" or "We'll always have Paris" or > "I stick my neck out for no one" meant nothing. [* If you > haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] --Andrew didn't mention Mr. Spock specifically; he just mentioned Vulcans. Anyone who watches Enterprise knows who Vulcans are. The ship's crew includes a Vulcan character. I think the previous Star Trek series, Voyager, DS9, and STTNG, had Vulcan characters also, though I didn't watch those shows any more regularly than I watch Enterprise. The original Star Trek series from the 1960s was the only one I really loved. And thank god I was born early enough to be around for its original run on NBC. What you say about kids missing out on cultural references has a lot of truth to it in general, though you're somewhat off-track in this particular case. Clairel

2003-04-17 17:36:55-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (reldevik@usa.net)


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > to kids today watching the show? > > A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > and nobody understood it. > > Some pop culture references last for a long time. Shows > like "I Love Lucy" are continually being aired, so young > people are familiar with them. But other once famous > icons fade away in the popular conscious since young > people never heard of them or, more significantly, > saw their work. I don't think the original Star Trek > TV series reruns get aired that much anymore in regular > syndication. > > I remember when I was a kid and teachers would refer back > to icons and we kids never heard of it. Later on in > college or as adults we'd learn more watching an old movie > or reading a book. > > I didn't see "Casablanca" until college*. Before that expressions > like "Give me the letters!" or "We'll always have Paris" or > "I stick my neck out for no one" meant nothing. [* If you > haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] --Andrew didn't mention Mr. Spock specifically; he just mentioned Vulcans. Anyone who watches Enterprise knows who Vulcans are. The ship's crew includes a Vulcan character. I think the previous Star Trek series, Voyager, DS9, and STTNG, had Vulcan characters also, though I didn't watch those shows any more regularly than I watch Enterprise. The original Star Trek series from the 1960s was the only one I really loved. And thank god I was born early enough to be around for its original run on NBC. What you say about kids missing out on cultural references has a lot of truth to it in general, though you're somewhat off-track in this particular case. Clairel

2003-04-17 19:09:26-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (dogglebe@yahoo.com)


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. How about the "Falcon Crest" reference? Phil ======== visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.homebrewersguild.org

2003-04-17 19:09:26-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (dogglebe@yahoo.com)


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. How about the "Falcon Crest" reference? Phil ======== visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.homebrewersguild.org

2003-04-17 19:22:16-05:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On 17 Apr 2003 16:02:53 -0700, jillun@hotmail.com (Jillun) wrote: > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > > reference means. > > > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > > to kids today watching the show? > > > > A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > > and nobody understood it. > > And you have to wonder if there were many people who had NO idea about > the reference to Gojira. They said Godzilla in the episode, so I think people got it. If they had said Gojira then less people would get it. -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-04-17 19:22:16-05:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On 17 Apr 2003 16:02:53 -0700, jillun@hotmail.com (Jillun) wrote: > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > > reference means. > > > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > > to kids today watching the show? > > > > A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > > and nobody understood it. > > And you have to wonder if there were many people who had NO idea about > the reference to Gojira. They said Godzilla in the episode, so I think people got it. If they had said Gojira then less people would get it. -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-04-17 19:25:20-05:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On 17 Apr 2003 11:55:35 -0700, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote: > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > to kids today watching the show? Amanda got it. Well, maybe not among the very young, but to sci-fi fans in general (including young ones), it obviously would have. I mean "classic" Star Trek reruns all the time, even on the Sci-Fi Channel a year or so ago. Plus the reference wasn't to merely Spock, but to Vulcans, and Vulcans appear to this day in new episodes of Enterprise, which is on UPN on Wednesday night! -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-04-17 19:25:20-05:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On 17 Apr 2003 11:55:35 -0700, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote: > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > to kids today watching the show? Amanda got it. Well, maybe not among the very young, but to sci-fi fans in general (including young ones), it obviously would have. I mean "classic" Star Trek reruns all the time, even on the Sci-Fi Channel a year or so ago. Plus the reference wasn't to merely Spock, but to Vulcans, and Vulcans appear to this day in new episodes of Enterprise, which is on UPN on Wednesday night! -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-04-17 21:07:17-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


Spoilers for Dirty Girls: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 1 1 Jeff nor Lisa wrote: > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. How in the world did ME recruit Leonard Nimoy for "Dirty Girls"?

2003-04-17 21:07:17-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


Spoilers for Dirty Girls: 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11 1 1 Jeff nor Lisa wrote: > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. How in the world did ME recruit Leonard Nimoy for "Dirty Girls"?

2003-04-17 23:01:59+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca>)


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in news:de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com: > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > to kids today watching the show? As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if the kids got it or not, I got it and every adult watching probably got it as well. -- Rick S. Calgary, Alberta rick-sam@shaw.ca

2003-04-17 23:01:59+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Rick S <rick-sam@shaw.ca>)


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in news:de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com: > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > to kids today watching the show? As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if the kids got it or not, I got it and every adult watching probably got it as well. -- Rick S. Calgary, Alberta rick-sam@shaw.ca

2003-04-18 02:34:43+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom)


In article <1faed770.0304171636.68802eba@posting.google.com>, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) writes: >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >> reference means. >> >> Did the humor of that scene had to be explained >> to kids today watching the show? >> >> A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class >> and nobody understood it. >> >> Some pop culture references last for a long time. Shows >> like "I Love Lucy" are continually being aired, so young >> people are familiar with them. But other once famous >> icons fade away in the popular conscious since young >> people never heard of them or, more significantly, >> saw their work. I don't think the original Star Trek >> TV series reruns get aired that much anymore in regular >> syndication. >> I get references to Spock and Star Trek, even though I've never watched an episode of any of the Star Trek shows. They're parodied and referenced so relentlessly, it's impossible not to absorb data about them. I've never read "A Christmas Carol" either, but I know who Scrooge is, through countless second-hand sources. >> I remember when I was a kid and teachers would refer back >> to icons and we kids never heard of it. Later on in >> college or as adults we'd learn more watching an old movie >> or reading a book. >> >> I didn't see "Casablanca" until college*. Before that expressions >> like "Give me the letters!" or "We'll always have Paris" or >> "I stick my neck out for no one" meant nothing. Or how about the most famous line, "Play it Again, Sam?", which is never actually uttered in Casablanca? [* If you >> haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] > Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. >--Andrew didn't mention Mr. Spock specifically; he just mentioned >Vulcans. Anyone who watches Enterprise knows who Vulcans are. The >ship's crew includes a Vulcan character. I think the previous Star >Trek series, Voyager, DS9, and STTNG, had Vulcan characters also, >though I didn't watch those shows any more regularly than I watch >Enterprise. > >The original Star Trek series from the 1960s was the only one I really >loved. And thank god I was born early enough to be around for its >original run on NBC. What you say about kids missing out on cultural >references has a lot of truth to it in general, though you're somewhat >off-track in this particular case. > Well, kids recognize a hell of a lot of *pop* culture references (far too many, IMO) which, by their nature, are supposed to be ephemeral. Young people shouldn't be expected to refer to the same TV shows, songs, and movies as their parents and grandparents did. If you're concerned about us not being able to identify Shakespearean quotations or historical allusions, I have mixed feelings about that. Yeah, we're pretty ignorant, probably the most ignorant generation in the last 150 years or so. On the other hand, having elders ram those things down our throats is insulting, and older generations don't necessarily have the world's greatest taste. Who are they to decide what's "real" culture and "real" history? Your pal, Barney Judge not. - J. Christ

2003-04-18 02:34:43+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom)


In article <1faed770.0304171636.68802eba@posting.google.com>, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) writes: >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >> reference means. >> >> Did the humor of that scene had to be explained >> to kids today watching the show? >> >> A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class >> and nobody understood it. >> >> Some pop culture references last for a long time. Shows >> like "I Love Lucy" are continually being aired, so young >> people are familiar with them. But other once famous >> icons fade away in the popular conscious since young >> people never heard of them or, more significantly, >> saw their work. I don't think the original Star Trek >> TV series reruns get aired that much anymore in regular >> syndication. >> I get references to Spock and Star Trek, even though I've never watched an episode of any of the Star Trek shows. They're parodied and referenced so relentlessly, it's impossible not to absorb data about them. I've never read "A Christmas Carol" either, but I know who Scrooge is, through countless second-hand sources. >> I remember when I was a kid and teachers would refer back >> to icons and we kids never heard of it. Later on in >> college or as adults we'd learn more watching an old movie >> or reading a book. >> >> I didn't see "Casablanca" until college*. Before that expressions >> like "Give me the letters!" or "We'll always have Paris" or >> "I stick my neck out for no one" meant nothing. Or how about the most famous line, "Play it Again, Sam?", which is never actually uttered in Casablanca? [* If you >> haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] > Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. >--Andrew didn't mention Mr. Spock specifically; he just mentioned >Vulcans. Anyone who watches Enterprise knows who Vulcans are. The >ship's crew includes a Vulcan character. I think the previous Star >Trek series, Voyager, DS9, and STTNG, had Vulcan characters also, >though I didn't watch those shows any more regularly than I watch >Enterprise. > >The original Star Trek series from the 1960s was the only one I really >loved. And thank god I was born early enough to be around for its >original run on NBC. What you say about kids missing out on cultural >references has a lot of truth to it in general, though you're somewhat >off-track in this particular case. > Well, kids recognize a hell of a lot of *pop* culture references (far too many, IMO) which, by their nature, are supposed to be ephemeral. Young people shouldn't be expected to refer to the same TV shows, songs, and movies as their parents and grandparents did. If you're concerned about us not being able to identify Shakespearean quotations or historical allusions, I have mixed feelings about that. Yeah, we're pretty ignorant, probably the most ignorant generation in the last 150 years or so. On the other hand, having elders ram those things down our throats is insulting, and older generations don't necessarily have the world's greatest taste. Who are they to decide what's "real" culture and "real" history? Your pal, Barney Judge not. - J. Christ

2003-04-18 04:10:04+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (stardreamer@mindspring.com)


In article <83456a7a.0304171809.2d1b8f0c@posting.google.com>, dogglebe@yahoo.com says... > >hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055 >.249b2341@posting.google.com>... >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >> reference means. > >How about the "Falcon Crest" reference? *I* wouldn't have gotten that -- what was it? That show came and went during the period when I had (by choice) no TV. Lots and lots of books, but no TV. Celine -- Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat "Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring." -- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_

2003-04-18 04:10:04+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (stardreamer@mindspring.com)


In article <83456a7a.0304171809.2d1b8f0c@posting.google.com>, dogglebe@yahoo.com says... > >hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055 >.249b2341@posting.google.com>... >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >> reference means. > >How about the "Falcon Crest" reference? *I* wouldn't have gotten that -- what was it? That show came and went during the period when I had (by choice) no TV. Lots and lots of books, but no TV. Celine -- Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat "Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring." -- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_

2003-04-18 05:15:57-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (dogglebe@yahoo.com)


stardreamer@mindspring.com (Lee S. Billings) wrote in message news:<b7ntqs$mom$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>... > In article <83456a7a.0304171809.2d1b8f0c@posting.google.com>, > dogglebe@yahoo.com says... > > > >hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message > news:<de64863b.0304171055 > >.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > >> reference means. > > > >How about the "Falcon Crest" reference? > > *I* wouldn't have gotten that -- what was it? That show came and went during > the period when I had (by choice) no TV. Lots and lots of books, but no TV. Falcon Crest was a night time soap opera on about when Dallas was on. It was about about a rich family who owned a winery. It ended about 1990. Phil ======== visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.homebrewersguild.org

2003-04-18 05:15:57-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (dogglebe@yahoo.com)


stardreamer@mindspring.com (Lee S. Billings) wrote in message news:<b7ntqs$mom$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>... > In article <83456a7a.0304171809.2d1b8f0c@posting.google.com>, > dogglebe@yahoo.com says... > > > >hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message > news:<de64863b.0304171055 > >.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > >> reference means. > > > >How about the "Falcon Crest" reference? > > *I* wouldn't have gotten that -- what was it? That show came and went during > the period when I had (by choice) no TV. Lots and lots of books, but no TV. Falcon Crest was a night time soap opera on about when Dallas was on. It was about about a rich family who owned a winery. It ended about 1990. Phil ======== visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.homebrewersguild.org

2003-04-18 11:30:37-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Tante Joan <tantejoan@SoftHome.net>)


On 17 Apr 2003 19:09:26 -0700, dogglebe@yahoo.com (Phil) wrote: >hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >> reference means. > >How about the "Falcon Crest" reference? > It runs every weekday at 12 noon, on the SoapNet Channel. TJ posting to all and Sundry [Who he? He helps me shave my legs with Occam's Razor]

2003-04-18 11:30:37-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Tante Joan <tantejoan@SoftHome.net>)


On 17 Apr 2003 19:09:26 -0700, dogglebe@yahoo.com (Phil) wrote: >hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >> reference means. > >How about the "Falcon Crest" reference? > It runs every weekday at 12 noon, on the SoapNet Channel. TJ posting to all and Sundry [Who he? He helps me shave my legs with Occam's Razor]

2003-04-18 11:39:10-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Tante Joan <tantejoan@SoftHome.net>)


On 18 Apr 2003 02:34:43 GMT, schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom (Barney) wrote: > >Or how about the most famous line, "Play it Again, Sam?", which is never >actually uttered in Casablanca? > > True. Ingrid Bergman urges Sam to "Play it, Sam. Play 'As Time Goes By' ." Then Bogart says, "Play it, Sam. You played it for her, you can play it for me." > [* If you >>> haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] >> > >Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. Not the same cast. SOME of the same cast: Bogart, Sydney Greenstreet. and Peter Lorre, but then they were then all members of the Warner Brothers stock company. But in "Casablanca" there is no Mary Astor, but rather the luminous Ingrid Bergman, and there are very distinct, wonderful additions: Paul Henreid, Claude Rains, Dooley Wilson, S.Z. "Cuddles" Szakall, etc. TJ posting to all and Sundry [Who he? He helps me shave my legs with Occam's Razor]

2003-04-18 11:39:10-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Tante Joan <tantejoan@SoftHome.net>)


On 18 Apr 2003 02:34:43 GMT, schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom (Barney) wrote: > >Or how about the most famous line, "Play it Again, Sam?", which is never >actually uttered in Casablanca? > > True. Ingrid Bergman urges Sam to "Play it, Sam. Play 'As Time Goes By' ." Then Bogart says, "Play it, Sam. You played it for her, you can play it for me." > [* If you >>> haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] >> > >Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. Not the same cast. SOME of the same cast: Bogart, Sydney Greenstreet. and Peter Lorre, but then they were then all members of the Warner Brothers stock company. But in "Casablanca" there is no Mary Astor, but rather the luminous Ingrid Bergman, and there are very distinct, wonderful additions: Paul Henreid, Claude Rains, Dooley Wilson, S.Z. "Cuddles" Szakall, etc. TJ posting to all and Sundry [Who he? He helps me shave my legs with Occam's Razor]

2003-04-18 11:54:55+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (pc7@mindspring.com)


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote: >This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >reference means. I loved how that scene even had music that sounded like it was from the original Star Trek series. Of all the many pop culture references made on BTVS over the years, I think that this one with Vulcans was ultra easy to catch relative to most. Howe

2003-04-18 11:54:55+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (pc7@mindspring.com)


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote: >This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >reference means. I loved how that scene even had music that sounded like it was from the original Star Trek series. Of all the many pop culture references made on BTVS over the years, I think that this one with Vulcans was ultra easy to catch relative to most. Howe

2003-04-18 13:55:43-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (reldevik@usa.net)


schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom (Barney) wrote in message news:<20030417223443.18755.00000072@mb-m05.aol.com>... > In article <1faed770.0304171636.68802eba@posting.google.com>, reldevik@usa.net > (Clairel) writes: > > >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > >> reference means. > >> > >> Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > >> to kids today watching the show? > >> > >> A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > >> and nobody understood it. > >> > >> Some pop culture references last for a long time. Shows > >> like "I Love Lucy" are continually being aired, so young > >> people are familiar with them. But other once famous > >> icons fade away in the popular conscious since young > >> people never heard of them or, more significantly, > >> saw their work. I don't think the original Star Trek > >> TV series reruns get aired that much anymore in regular > >> syndication. > >> > > > I get references to Spock and Star Trek, even though I've never watched an > episode of any of the Star Trek shows. They're parodied and referenced so > relentlessly, it's impossible not to absorb data about them. I've never read > "A Christmas Carol" either, but I know who Scrooge is, through countless > second-hand sources. > > > >> I remember when I was a kid and teachers would refer back > >> to icons and we kids never heard of it. Later on in > >> college or as adults we'd learn more watching an old movie > >> or reading a book. > >> > >> I didn't see "Casablanca" until college*. Before that expressions > >> like "Give me the letters!" or "We'll always have Paris" or > >> "I stick my neck out for no one" meant nothing. > > Or how about the most famous line, "Play it Again, Sam?", which is never > actually uttered in Casablanca? > > > [* If you > >> haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] > > > > Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. > > > >--Andrew didn't mention Mr. Spock specifically; he just mentioned > >Vulcans. Anyone who watches Enterprise knows who Vulcans are. The > >ship's crew includes a Vulcan character. I think the previous Star > >Trek series, Voyager, DS9, and STTNG, had Vulcan characters also, > >though I didn't watch those shows any more regularly than I watch > >Enterprise. > > > >The original Star Trek series from the 1960s was the only one I really > >loved. And thank god I was born early enough to be around for its > >original run on NBC. What you say about kids missing out on cultural > >references has a lot of truth to it in general, though you're somewhat > >off-track in this particular case. > > > > Well, kids recognize a hell of a lot of *pop* culture references (far too many, > IMO) which, by their nature, are supposed to be ephemeral. Young people > shouldn't be expected to refer to the same TV shows, songs, and movies as their > parents and grandparents did. If you're concerned about us not being able to > identify Shakespearean quotations or historical allusions, I have mixed > feelings about that. Yeah, we're pretty ignorant, probably the most ignorant > generation in the last 150 years or so. On the other hand, having elders ram > those things down our throats is insulting, and older generations don't > necessarily have the world's greatest taste. Who are they to decide what's > "real" culture and "real" history? --I merely made a factual observation, that kids today miss out on a lot of cultural references. I didn't say whether that was a good thing or a bad thing. Nor did I specify high culture or pop culture. Clairel

2003-04-18 13:55:43-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (reldevik@usa.net)


schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom (Barney) wrote in message news:<20030417223443.18755.00000072@mb-m05.aol.com>... > In article <1faed770.0304171636.68802eba@posting.google.com>, reldevik@usa.net > (Clairel) writes: > > >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > >> reference means. > >> > >> Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > >> to kids today watching the show? > >> > >> A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > >> and nobody understood it. > >> > >> Some pop culture references last for a long time. Shows > >> like "I Love Lucy" are continually being aired, so young > >> people are familiar with them. But other once famous > >> icons fade away in the popular conscious since young > >> people never heard of them or, more significantly, > >> saw their work. I don't think the original Star Trek > >> TV series reruns get aired that much anymore in regular > >> syndication. > >> > > > I get references to Spock and Star Trek, even though I've never watched an > episode of any of the Star Trek shows. They're parodied and referenced so > relentlessly, it's impossible not to absorb data about them. I've never read > "A Christmas Carol" either, but I know who Scrooge is, through countless > second-hand sources. > > > >> I remember when I was a kid and teachers would refer back > >> to icons and we kids never heard of it. Later on in > >> college or as adults we'd learn more watching an old movie > >> or reading a book. > >> > >> I didn't see "Casablanca" until college*. Before that expressions > >> like "Give me the letters!" or "We'll always have Paris" or > >> "I stick my neck out for no one" meant nothing. > > Or how about the most famous line, "Play it Again, Sam?", which is never > actually uttered in Casablanca? > > > [* If you > >> haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] > > > > Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. > > > >--Andrew didn't mention Mr. Spock specifically; he just mentioned > >Vulcans. Anyone who watches Enterprise knows who Vulcans are. The > >ship's crew includes a Vulcan character. I think the previous Star > >Trek series, Voyager, DS9, and STTNG, had Vulcan characters also, > >though I didn't watch those shows any more regularly than I watch > >Enterprise. > > > >The original Star Trek series from the 1960s was the only one I really > >loved. And thank god I was born early enough to be around for its > >original run on NBC. What you say about kids missing out on cultural > >references has a lot of truth to it in general, though you're somewhat > >off-track in this particular case. > > > > Well, kids recognize a hell of a lot of *pop* culture references (far too many, > IMO) which, by their nature, are supposed to be ephemeral. Young people > shouldn't be expected to refer to the same TV shows, songs, and movies as their > parents and grandparents did. If you're concerned about us not being able to > identify Shakespearean quotations or historical allusions, I have mixed > feelings about that. Yeah, we're pretty ignorant, probably the most ignorant > generation in the last 150 years or so. On the other hand, having elders ram > those things down our throats is insulting, and older generations don't > necessarily have the world's greatest taste. Who are they to decide what's > "real" culture and "real" history? --I merely made a factual observation, that kids today miss out on a lot of cultural references. I didn't say whether that was a good thing or a bad thing. Nor did I specify high culture or pop culture. Clairel

2003-04-18 14:02:35-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (reldevik@usa.net)


dogglebe@yahoo.com (Phil) wrote in message news:<83456a7a.0304171809.2d1b8f0c@posting.google.com>... > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > > reference means. > > How about the "Falcon Crest" reference? --I loved the fact that Spike was the one who made the reference. He would have been watching TV twenty years ago when Falcon Crest was on, of course. I remember the dates when Falcon Crest was on the air because it spanned the 1980s almost entirely, and it was also the only soap opera I've ever watched in my life. I watched it because I liked the characters of Maggie Gioberti, played by Susan Sullivan, and Richard Channing, who was played by David Selby, an actor who previously played a werewolf on Dark Shadows. I found the Richard Channing character enormously attractive and was really rooting for a romance between him and Maggie. (Too bad that all turned tragic after she married him!) Richard Channing was a good/evil character of great charm. But of course he is only a pale shadow of the incomparable Spike. Hmm...that goody-goody character Chase Gioberti, Maggie's first husband, was an awful lot like Riley...But you know what's really weird? The fact that I remember all the characters' names and relationships fourteen years after Falcon Crest went off the air. Sometimes I scare myself. Clairel

2003-04-18 14:02:35-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (reldevik@usa.net)


dogglebe@yahoo.com (Phil) wrote in message news:<83456a7a.0304171809.2d1b8f0c@posting.google.com>... > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > > reference means. > > How about the "Falcon Crest" reference? --I loved the fact that Spike was the one who made the reference. He would have been watching TV twenty years ago when Falcon Crest was on, of course. I remember the dates when Falcon Crest was on the air because it spanned the 1980s almost entirely, and it was also the only soap opera I've ever watched in my life. I watched it because I liked the characters of Maggie Gioberti, played by Susan Sullivan, and Richard Channing, who was played by David Selby, an actor who previously played a werewolf on Dark Shadows. I found the Richard Channing character enormously attractive and was really rooting for a romance between him and Maggie. (Too bad that all turned tragic after she married him!) Richard Channing was a good/evil character of great charm. But of course he is only a pale shadow of the incomparable Spike. Hmm...that goody-goody character Chase Gioberti, Maggie's first husband, was an awful lot like Riley...But you know what's really weird? The fact that I remember all the characters' names and relationships fourteen years after Falcon Crest went off the air. Sometimes I scare myself. Clairel

2003-04-18 14:27:51-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (William George Ferguson <william.george.ferguson@domail.maricopa.edu>)


On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:36:15 -0400, Rocinante <matrixoutsider@hotmail.com> wrote: >On 17 Apr 2003 11:55:35 -0700, Jeff nor Lisa wrote: > >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >> reference means. > >Not a reference to Spock directly, but a reference to vulcans in general. A reference to Vulcans in general who happen to look a lot like Spock, wear the same version of the Starfleet uniform that Spock wore in TOS, and try to do the Vulcan Nerve Grip on Faith. C'mon, that was Faith vs. Spock, Hoo'd Win. -- "Oh Buffy, you really do need to have every square inch of your ass kicked." - Willow Rosenberg

2003-04-18 14:27:51-07:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (William George Ferguson <william.george.ferguson@domail.maricopa.edu>)


On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:36:15 -0400, Rocinante <matrixoutsider@hotmail.com> wrote: >On 17 Apr 2003 11:55:35 -0700, Jeff nor Lisa wrote: > >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >> reference means. > >Not a reference to Spock directly, but a reference to vulcans in general. A reference to Vulcans in general who happen to look a lot like Spock, wear the same version of the Starfleet uniform that Spock wore in TOS, and try to do the Vulcan Nerve Grip on Faith. C'mon, that was Faith vs. Spock, Hoo'd Win. -- "Oh Buffy, you really do need to have every square inch of your ass kicked." - Willow Rosenberg

2003-04-18 14:36:15-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Rocinante <matrixoutsider@hotmail.com>)


On 17 Apr 2003 11:55:35 -0700, Jeff nor Lisa wrote: > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. Not a reference to Spock directly, but a reference to vulcans in general. -- What's the difference between the Pope and your boss? The Pope only expects you to kiss his ring. 4/18/2003 2:35:34 PM

2003-04-18 14:36:15-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Rocinante <matrixoutsider@hotmail.com>)


On 17 Apr 2003 11:55:35 -0700, Jeff nor Lisa wrote: > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. Not a reference to Spock directly, but a reference to vulcans in general. -- What's the difference between the Pope and your boss? The Pope only expects you to kiss his ring. 4/18/2003 2:35:34 PM

2003-04-18 17:02:47+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (calt@aol.com)


On 17 Apr 2003 11:55:35 -0700, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote: >This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >reference means. Kids today don't know who President Bush is. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know who Snoop Dog is!

2003-04-18 17:02:47+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (calt@aol.com)


On 17 Apr 2003 11:55:35 -0700, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote: >This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >reference means. Kids today don't know who President Bush is. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know who Snoop Dog is!

2003-04-18 19:28:58+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote in article <de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > to kids today watching the show? > Yes, I had to explain the humor, but not for the reasons you suppose. I watched this episode with my son and his friend who are both freshmen in high school. She was the first to ask, "When was a Vulcan on a Buffy episode?" My son explained that a Vulcan was never on a Buffy episode and that Andrew was a passionate Star Trek fan. But I had to explain to both of them what a vulcanologist was. Sigh. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-04-18 19:28:58+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote in article <de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > to kids today watching the show? > Yes, I had to explain the humor, but not for the reasons you suppose. I watched this episode with my son and his friend who are both freshmen in high school. She was the first to ask, "When was a Vulcan on a Buffy episode?" My son explained that a Vulcan was never on a Buffy episode and that Andrew was a passionate Star Trek fan. But I had to explain to both of them what a vulcanologist was. Sigh. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-04-18 19:39:02+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (nimue <cup_o_cakes@yahoo.com>)


Growltiger wrote: > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote in > article <de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >> reference means. >> >> Did the humor of that scene had to be explained >> to kids today watching the show? >> > > Yes, I had to explain the humor, but not for the reasons you suppose. > I watched this episode with my son and his friend who are both > freshmen in high school. She was the first to ask, "When was a > Vulcan on a Buffy episode?" My son explained that a Vulcan was never > on a Buffy episode and that Andrew was a passionate Star Trek fan. > But I had to explain to both of them what a vulcanologist was. Sigh. Well, Andrew didn't know either. -- nimue "There are things I will not tolerate: students loitering on campus after school, horrible murders with hearts being removed... and also smoking." Principal Snyder

2003-04-18 19:39:02+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (nimue <cup_o_cakes@yahoo.com>)


Growltiger wrote: > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote in > article <de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... >> This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a >> character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the >> TV and movies featuring that character were on so long >> ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that >> reference means. >> >> Did the humor of that scene had to be explained >> to kids today watching the show? >> > > Yes, I had to explain the humor, but not for the reasons you suppose. > I watched this episode with my son and his friend who are both > freshmen in high school. She was the first to ask, "When was a > Vulcan on a Buffy episode?" My son explained that a Vulcan was never > on a Buffy episode and that Andrew was a passionate Star Trek fan. > But I had to explain to both of them what a vulcanologist was. Sigh. Well, Andrew didn't know either. -- nimue "There are things I will not tolerate: students loitering on campus after school, horrible murders with hearts being removed... and also smoking." Principal Snyder

2003-04-18 20:00:31+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (ianboy <nospam@ianboy.com>)


On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:28:58 GMT, Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid> wrote: >My son explained that a Vulcan was never on a Buffy episode >and that Andrew was a passionate Star Trek fan. But I had to explain to >both of them what a vulcanologist was. Sigh. So Buffy is also an educational show, not just a horror comedy! Yet another valuable side to the phenomenon... Ian

2003-04-18 20:00:31+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (ianboy <nospam@ianboy.com>)


On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:28:58 GMT, Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid> wrote: >My son explained that a Vulcan was never on a Buffy episode >and that Andrew was a passionate Star Trek fan. But I had to explain to >both of them what a vulcanologist was. Sigh. So Buffy is also an educational show, not just a horror comedy! Yet another valuable side to the phenomenon... Ian

2003-04-19 01:09:38+01:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (John Campbell Rees <jwcr@gardd-lelog.org.uk>)


During the course of this discussion, schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom (Barney), in message <20030417223443.18755.00000072@mb-m05.aol.com> wrote: > > In article <1faed770.0304171636.68802eba@posting.google.com>, > > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) writes: > > >> If you haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even > >> today. > > > > Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. Its Easter on Sunday Barney, not April Fool's Day. Your joke is three weeks to late. At least I hope it is a joke, how can you possibly think the tedious "Maltese Falcon" is better than "Casablanca". -- "Like shooting flies with a laser cannon, the aims a bit tricky, but it certainly deals with the flies." - Lord Miles Vorkosigan.

2003-04-19 01:09:38+01:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (John Campbell Rees <jwcr@gardd-lelog.org.uk>)


During the course of this discussion, schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom (Barney), in message <20030417223443.18755.00000072@mb-m05.aol.com> wrote: > > In article <1faed770.0304171636.68802eba@posting.google.com>, > > reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) writes: > > >> If you haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even > >> today. > > > > Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. Its Easter on Sunday Barney, not April Fool's Day. Your joke is three weeks to late. At least I hope it is a joke, how can you possibly think the tedious "Maltese Falcon" is better than "Casablanca". -- "Like shooting flies with a laser cannon, the aims a bit tricky, but it certainly deals with the flies." - Lord Miles Vorkosigan.

2003-04-19 14:23:04-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (msnomer <msnomer@spamcop.net>)


In article <20030419102419.18770.00000073@mb-m19.aol.com>, schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom (Barney) wrote: > In article <vh60avcdt227qg2jap592naja6etpi35ni@4ax.com>, Tante Joan > <tantejoan@SoftHome.net> writes: > > >> [* If you haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] > >>> > >> > >>Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. > > > >Not the same cast. SOME of the same cast: Bogart, Sydney Greenstreet. > >and Peter Lorre, but then they were then all members of the Warner > >Brothers stock company. But in "Casablanca" there is no Mary Astor, > > Ah, I was trying to think of her name. Didn't Astor publish a big sex diary > going into detail about all the movie stars she slept with? > Not exactly. Her secretary stole her diary, in which she raved over George Gershwin's attributes and remarkable lasting power. It was quite a scandal. -- meredith "If you want me to leave, you can put your hands on my hot tight little body and make me." - Spike, IWMTLY "Everyone's getting spanked but me!" - Willow, The I In Team

2003-04-19 14:23:04-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (msnomer <msnomer@spamcop.net>)


In article <20030419102419.18770.00000073@mb-m19.aol.com>, schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom (Barney) wrote: > In article <vh60avcdt227qg2jap592naja6etpi35ni@4ax.com>, Tante Joan > <tantejoan@SoftHome.net> writes: > > >> [* If you haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] > >>> > >> > >>Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. > > > >Not the same cast. SOME of the same cast: Bogart, Sydney Greenstreet. > >and Peter Lorre, but then they were then all members of the Warner > >Brothers stock company. But in "Casablanca" there is no Mary Astor, > > Ah, I was trying to think of her name. Didn't Astor publish a big sex diary > going into detail about all the movie stars she slept with? > Not exactly. Her secretary stole her diary, in which she raved over George Gershwin's attributes and remarkable lasting power. It was quite a scandal. -- meredith "If you want me to leave, you can put your hands on my hot tight little body and make me." - Spike, IWMTLY "Everyone's getting spanked but me!" - Willow, The I In Team

2003-04-19 14:24:18+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom)


In article <1faed770.0304181255.2d49eab1@posting.google.com>, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) writes: >> Well, kids recognize a hell of a lot of *pop* culture references (far too >many, >> IMO) which, by their nature, are supposed to be ephemeral. Young people >> shouldn't be expected to refer to the same TV shows, songs, and movies as >their >> parents and grandparents did. If you're concerned about us not being able >to >> identify Shakespearean quotations or historical allusions, I have mixed >> feelings about that. Yeah, we're pretty ignorant, probably the most >ignorant >> generation in the last 150 years or so. On the other hand, having elders >ram >> those things down our throats is insulting, and older generations don't >> necessarily have the world's greatest taste. Who are they to decide what's >> "real" culture and "real" history? > >--I merely made a factual observation, that kids today miss out on a >lot of cultural references. And I merely pointed out that you're wrong. It depends on what kind of cultural references. > I didn't say whether that was a good >thing or a bad thing. So you're saying that you approve? Somehow I doubt that, Clairel. You're a commissar. No need to be ashamed. > Nor did I specify high culture or pop culture. > But you said that kids miss out on cultural references, which simply isn't true when it comes to pop culture references from their own era. They recognize an infinite number of pop allusions and make them constantly. Your pal, Barney Judge not. - J. Christ

2003-04-19 14:24:18+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom)


In article <1faed770.0304181255.2d49eab1@posting.google.com>, reldevik@usa.net (Clairel) writes: >> Well, kids recognize a hell of a lot of *pop* culture references (far too >many, >> IMO) which, by their nature, are supposed to be ephemeral. Young people >> shouldn't be expected to refer to the same TV shows, songs, and movies as >their >> parents and grandparents did. If you're concerned about us not being able >to >> identify Shakespearean quotations or historical allusions, I have mixed >> feelings about that. Yeah, we're pretty ignorant, probably the most >ignorant >> generation in the last 150 years or so. On the other hand, having elders >ram >> those things down our throats is insulting, and older generations don't >> necessarily have the world's greatest taste. Who are they to decide what's >> "real" culture and "real" history? > >--I merely made a factual observation, that kids today miss out on a >lot of cultural references. And I merely pointed out that you're wrong. It depends on what kind of cultural references. > I didn't say whether that was a good >thing or a bad thing. So you're saying that you approve? Somehow I doubt that, Clairel. You're a commissar. No need to be ashamed. > Nor did I specify high culture or pop culture. > But you said that kids miss out on cultural references, which simply isn't true when it comes to pop culture references from their own era. They recognize an infinite number of pop allusions and make them constantly. Your pal, Barney Judge not. - J. Christ

2003-04-19 14:24:19+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom)


In article <vh60avcdt227qg2jap592naja6etpi35ni@4ax.com>, Tante Joan <tantejoan@SoftHome.net> writes: >> [* If you haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] >>> >> >>Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. > >Not the same cast. SOME of the same cast: Bogart, Sydney Greenstreet. >and Peter Lorre, but then they were then all members of the Warner >Brothers stock company. But in "Casablanca" there is no Mary Astor, Ah, I was trying to think of her name. Didn't Astor publish a big sex diary going into detail about all the movie stars she slept with? Your pal, Barney Judge not. - J. Christ

2003-04-19 14:24:19+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom)


In article <vh60avcdt227qg2jap592naja6etpi35ni@4ax.com>, Tante Joan <tantejoan@SoftHome.net> writes: >> [* If you haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] >>> >> >>Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. > >Not the same cast. SOME of the same cast: Bogart, Sydney Greenstreet. >and Peter Lorre, but then they were then all members of the Warner >Brothers stock company. But in "Casablanca" there is no Mary Astor, Ah, I was trying to think of her name. Didn't Astor publish a big sex diary going into detail about all the movie stars she slept with? Your pal, Barney Judge not. - J. Christ

2003-04-19 21:36:25+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Monsieur et Madame Vieuxbouc <martweiss@earthlink.net>)


st wrote: > On 17 Apr 2003 11:55:35 -0700, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) > wrote: > > >I didn't see "Casablanca" until college*. Before that expressions > >like "Give me the letters!" or "We'll always have Paris" or > >"I stick my neck out for no one" meant nothing. [* If you > >haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] > > Thats funny, I never saw Casablanca until college either, and my > reaction to watching it was: "Damn, this movie is full of cliches" But, that's the point..... this movie is the SOURCE of the cliches we recognize today! Marty >

2003-04-19 21:36:25+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Monsieur et Madame Vieuxbouc <martweiss@earthlink.net>)


st wrote: > On 17 Apr 2003 11:55:35 -0700, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) > wrote: > > >I didn't see "Casablanca" until college*. Before that expressions > >like "Give me the letters!" or "We'll always have Paris" or > >"I stick my neck out for no one" meant nothing. [* If you > >haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even today.] > > Thats funny, I never saw Casablanca until college either, and my > reaction to watching it was: "Damn, this movie is full of cliches" But, that's the point..... this movie is the SOURCE of the cliches we recognize today! Marty >

2003-04-19 23:05:57-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote in message news:923711628700736.NC-1.55.mathewignash@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com... > On 17 Apr 2003 16:02:53 -0700, jillun@hotmail.com (Jillun) wrote: > > > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message > news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > > > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > > > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > > > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > > > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > > > reference means. > > > > > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > > > to kids today watching the show? > > > > > > A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > > > and nobody understood it. > > > > And you have to wonder if there were many people who had NO idea about > > the reference to Gojira. > > They said Godzilla in the episode, so I think people got it. If they had said > Gojira then less people would get it. Besides, the Godzilla movie that was referenced was a highly anticipated, big budget summer movie from only five years ago. Kids' memories aren't _that_ short. Arnold Kim

2003-04-19 23:05:57-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote in message news:923711628700736.NC-1.55.mathewignash@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com... > On 17 Apr 2003 16:02:53 -0700, jillun@hotmail.com (Jillun) wrote: > > > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message > news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > > > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > > > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > > > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > > > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > > > reference means. > > > > > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > > > to kids today watching the show? > > > > > > A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > > > and nobody understood it. > > > > And you have to wonder if there were many people who had NO idea about > > the reference to Gojira. > > They said Godzilla in the episode, so I think people got it. If they had said > Gojira then less people would get it. Besides, the Godzilla movie that was referenced was a highly anticipated, big budget summer movie from only five years ago. Kids' memories aren't _that_ short. Arnold Kim

2003-04-21 09:53:25+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in news:de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com: > > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. Of course. Spock is part of American culture - like Huckelberry Finn, Superman, Lucy Ricardo, Gunsmoke, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Trek has been around since the 1960s but the last movie with Spock was ST 6 - "The Undiscovered Country" which wasn't so far back. More important is Mr. Spock is an American icon. Even people who don't know "Star Trek" know it's about the guy with the pointed ears and all of those weirdo fans. It isn't even the second - or third time "Star Trek" has been referenced on "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (and I'm not even talking about Andrew shamelessly promoting "Enterprise" just because it's also on UPN.) Heck Spike knows who Spock is even though he doesn't know Boba Fett. (which just goes to show that Spike isn't as much of a geek as many of his fans.) Obviously Spike has seen "Star Wars" enough to know who Yoda is, but not enough to know a minor characters like Boba Fett. Philip Chien (who wonders how non-culutrally aware America will comprehend Buffy a decade from now.)

2003-04-21 09:53:25+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in news:de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com: > > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > reference means. Of course. Spock is part of American culture - like Huckelberry Finn, Superman, Lucy Ricardo, Gunsmoke, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Trek has been around since the 1960s but the last movie with Spock was ST 6 - "The Undiscovered Country" which wasn't so far back. More important is Mr. Spock is an American icon. Even people who don't know "Star Trek" know it's about the guy with the pointed ears and all of those weirdo fans. It isn't even the second - or third time "Star Trek" has been referenced on "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (and I'm not even talking about Andrew shamelessly promoting "Enterprise" just because it's also on UPN.) Heck Spike knows who Spock is even though he doesn't know Boba Fett. (which just goes to show that Spike isn't as much of a geek as many of his fans.) Obviously Spike has seen "Star Wars" enough to know who Yoda is, but not enough to know a minor characters like Boba Fett. Philip Chien (who wonders how non-culutrally aware America will comprehend Buffy a decade from now.)

2003-04-22 18:08:26-05:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:05:57 -0400, "Arnold Kim" wrote: > > "Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:923711628700736.NC-1.55.mathewignash@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com... > > On 17 Apr 2003 16:02:53 -0700, jillun@hotmail.com (Jillun) wrote: > > > > > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message > > news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > > > > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > > > > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > > > > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > > > > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > > > > reference means. > > > > > > > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > > > > to kids today watching the show? > > > > > > > > A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > > > > and nobody understood it. > > > > > > And you have to wonder if there were many people who had NO idea about > > > the reference to Gojira. > > > > They said Godzilla in the episode, so I think people got it. If they had > said > > Gojira then less people would get it. > > Besides, the Godzilla movie that was referenced was a highly anticipated, > big budget summer movie from only five years ago. Kids' memories aren't > _that_ short. Plus there was the short lived saturday morning cartoon series spin off of the Tristar psuedo-Godzilla. Actually they referenced BOTH Godzilla's, since Xander made the distinction the Tristar and the "real" Toho Godzilla, which could be seen in the US release Godzilla 2000. Xander of course referenced Godzilla back in the season two episode Reptile Boy at the frat party, and there was that time Merl on Angel called Darla and Drusilla as "Drusilla, Darzilla, whatever" in Redefinition, which may have been a Godzilla reference. I think Harmony once also called Drusilla by the name "Druzilla." -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-04-22 18:08:26-05:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - ("Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net>)


On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:05:57 -0400, "Arnold Kim" wrote: > > "Mathew R. Ignash" <mathewignash@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:923711628700736.NC-1.55.mathewignash@news.mi.comcast.giganews.com... > > On 17 Apr 2003 16:02:53 -0700, jillun@hotmail.com (Jillun) wrote: > > > > > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) wrote in message > > news:<de64863b.0304171055.249b2341@posting.google.com>... > > > > This week's B/VS episode had a reference to Mr. Spock, a > > > > character on the 1960s TV show, "Star Trek". Since the > > > > TV and movies featuring that character were on so long > > > > ago, I wonder if young people today even know what that > > > > reference means. > > > > > > > > Did the humor of that scene had to be explained > > > > to kids today watching the show? > > > > > > > > A friend of mine who is a teacher referenced it in his class > > > > and nobody understood it. > > > > > > And you have to wonder if there were many people who had NO idea about > > > the reference to Gojira. > > > > They said Godzilla in the episode, so I think people got it. If they had > said > > Gojira then less people would get it. > > Besides, the Godzilla movie that was referenced was a highly anticipated, > big budget summer movie from only five years ago. Kids' memories aren't > _that_ short. Plus there was the short lived saturday morning cartoon series spin off of the Tristar psuedo-Godzilla. Actually they referenced BOTH Godzilla's, since Xander made the distinction the Tristar and the "real" Toho Godzilla, which could be seen in the US release Godzilla 2000. Xander of course referenced Godzilla back in the season two episode Reptile Boy at the frat party, and there was that time Merl on Angel called Darla and Drusilla as "Drusilla, Darzilla, whatever" in Redefinition, which may have been a Godzilla reference. I think Harmony once also called Drusilla by the name "Druzilla." -- Mathew Homepage - http://mathew.fcpages.com/ Angel web site - http://angel.fcpages.com/

2003-05-01 00:11:30+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom)


In article <e32153e54b.jwcr@dendarii.btinternet.com>, John Campbell Rees <jwcr@gardd-lelog.org.uk> writes: >> >> If you haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even >> >> today. >> > >> >> Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. > >Its Easter on Sunday Barney, not April Fool's Day. Your joke is three >weeks to late. At least I hope it is a joke, how can you possibly think >the tedious "Maltese Falcon" is better than "Casablanca". > I am shocked - shocked ! - to discover that anyone could consider Casablanca superior to The Maltese Falcon. Casablanca has its moments but it's basically propaganda clumsily chucked into a cheesy chick flick. Tell me that you can watch that flashback scene where the Nazis roll into Paris and Ingrid Bergman says, "Is that gunfire? Or is it the beating of my heart?" without wincing and / or puking. OTOH, I can understand why people might consider Maltese Falcon to be "tedious". It's got a lot of rapid dialogue, little action, no drippy love scenes, and you have to pay very close attention to the nuances of the line readings and the actor's facial expressions to fully appreciate how clever and hard-edged the movie is. It's the best noir flick ever, much more entertaining than another more celebrated film released the same year, "Citizen Kane". Your pal, Barney As soon as you are seated, express the wish that the orchestra will play Beethoven's Fifth. If your companion asks, "Fifth what?" you are safe for the rest of the evening. - Donald Ogden Stewart, "On Taking a Lady to a Concert"

2003-05-01 00:11:30+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom)


In article <e32153e54b.jwcr@dendarii.btinternet.com>, John Campbell Rees <jwcr@gardd-lelog.org.uk> writes: >> >> If you haven't seen Casablanca, rent it. Wonderful movie, even >> >> today. >> > >> >> Nah, rent "The Maltese Falcon" first. Same cast, better story. > >Its Easter on Sunday Barney, not April Fool's Day. Your joke is three >weeks to late. At least I hope it is a joke, how can you possibly think >the tedious "Maltese Falcon" is better than "Casablanca". > I am shocked - shocked ! - to discover that anyone could consider Casablanca superior to The Maltese Falcon. Casablanca has its moments but it's basically propaganda clumsily chucked into a cheesy chick flick. Tell me that you can watch that flashback scene where the Nazis roll into Paris and Ingrid Bergman says, "Is that gunfire? Or is it the beating of my heart?" without wincing and / or puking. OTOH, I can understand why people might consider Maltese Falcon to be "tedious". It's got a lot of rapid dialogue, little action, no drippy love scenes, and you have to pay very close attention to the nuances of the line readings and the actor's facial expressions to fully appreciate how clever and hard-edged the movie is. It's the best noir flick ever, much more entertaining than another more celebrated film released the same year, "Citizen Kane". Your pal, Barney As soon as you are seated, express the wish that the orchestra will play Beethoven's Fifth. If your companion asks, "Fifth what?" you are safe for the rest of the evening. - Donald Ogden Stewart, "On Taking a Lady to a Concert"

2003-05-01 13:45:06+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (pine106887@aol.comnospam)


One last thing...if you're gonna catch the Maltese Falcon, PLEASE watch it in black and white, not the colorized. Huge, HUGE difference! pine

2003-05-01 13:45:06+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (pine106887@aol.comnospam)


One last thing...if you're gonna catch the Maltese Falcon, PLEASE watch it in black and white, not the colorized. Huge, HUGE difference! pine

2003-05-01 19:38:22-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net>)


On 01 May 2003 13:45:06 GMT, pine106887@aol.comnospam (Pine106887) wrote: >One last thing...if you're gonna catch the Maltese Falcon, PLEASE watch it in >black and white, not the colorized. Huge, HUGE difference! Better still, forget colorization ever existed.

2003-05-01 19:38:22-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net>)


On 01 May 2003 13:45:06 GMT, pine106887@aol.comnospam (Pine106887) wrote: >One last thing...if you're gonna catch the Maltese Falcon, PLEASE watch it in >black and white, not the colorized. Huge, HUGE difference! Better still, forget colorization ever existed.

2003-05-01 23:39:17-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net>)


On Fri, 2 May 2003 02:18:16 +0100, "Speaker-to-Customers" <greebo@manx.net> wrote: >> Better still, forget colorization ever existed. > >Colorization is a wonderful thing. It can turn unwatchable black-and-white >crap into masterpieces. > >I hadn't realised there was a colorized Maltese Falcon. I must try to find >and watch it. > >If God had meant us to watch black-and-white films He wouldn't have given us >colour receptors in our eyes. You're either saying this to be deliberately inflammatory, or you're far, far more of an idiot than I ever suspected. "If God had meant us to watch black-and-white films..." ...you do know filmmakers have had access to color film since the early 30s right? Yet very few used it, notable exceptions being "The Wizard of Oz" and other cinematic spectacles. Why? It wasn't necessary to tell the story. "Citizen Kane" could very easily have been made in color, but it wasn't, because the filmmaker knew he could tell the story more dramatically in stark, heartless black and white. Colorization blows because colorizers don't have the first iota of a clue what color the director intended things to be. Military movies are especially funny because men in khaki uniforms are basically khaki from the top of their hats to the cuffs on their pants, like they were painted with a roller or something. The colorized "Casablanca" is a joke - not only does color not add a damn thing, it actually detracts from the story. Surprisingly, it was the same with "Miracle on 34th Street." The colorized version of "It's a Wonderful Life" is a joke - the cold, harsh "world without George" turns into a bizarro Christmas Wonderland in color. And in color Lionel Barrymore as the Evil Nasty Mr Potter suddenly just looks like somebody's good ol' Uncle Joe. There's a reason colorization was abandoned almost 20 years ago. It was shit and everybody knew it. The ONLY good thing that came of it was, when a colorized film was released, a black-and-white version of the same pristine print they worked from to do the colorization was released simultaneously.

2003-05-01 23:39:17-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net>)


On Fri, 2 May 2003 02:18:16 +0100, "Speaker-to-Customers" <greebo@manx.net> wrote: >> Better still, forget colorization ever existed. > >Colorization is a wonderful thing. It can turn unwatchable black-and-white >crap into masterpieces. > >I hadn't realised there was a colorized Maltese Falcon. I must try to find >and watch it. > >If God had meant us to watch black-and-white films He wouldn't have given us >colour receptors in our eyes. You're either saying this to be deliberately inflammatory, or you're far, far more of an idiot than I ever suspected. "If God had meant us to watch black-and-white films..." ...you do know filmmakers have had access to color film since the early 30s right? Yet very few used it, notable exceptions being "The Wizard of Oz" and other cinematic spectacles. Why? It wasn't necessary to tell the story. "Citizen Kane" could very easily have been made in color, but it wasn't, because the filmmaker knew he could tell the story more dramatically in stark, heartless black and white. Colorization blows because colorizers don't have the first iota of a clue what color the director intended things to be. Military movies are especially funny because men in khaki uniforms are basically khaki from the top of their hats to the cuffs on their pants, like they were painted with a roller or something. The colorized "Casablanca" is a joke - not only does color not add a damn thing, it actually detracts from the story. Surprisingly, it was the same with "Miracle on 34th Street." The colorized version of "It's a Wonderful Life" is a joke - the cold, harsh "world without George" turns into a bizarro Christmas Wonderland in color. And in color Lionel Barrymore as the Evil Nasty Mr Potter suddenly just looks like somebody's good ol' Uncle Joe. There's a reason colorization was abandoned almost 20 years ago. It was shit and everybody knew it. The ONLY good thing that came of it was, when a colorized film was released, a black-and-white version of the same pristine print they worked from to do the colorization was released simultaneously.

2003-05-02 02:18:16+01:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Speaker-to-Customers <greebo@manx.net>)


forge wrote: > Pine106887 wrote: > >> One last thing...if you're gonna catch the Maltese Falcon, PLEASE >> watch it in black and white, not the colorized. Huge, HUGE >> difference! > > Better still, forget colorization ever existed. Colorization is a wonderful thing. It can turn unwatchable black-and-white crap into masterpieces. I hadn't realised there was a colorized Maltese Falcon. I must try to find and watch it. If God had meant us to watch black-and-white films He wouldn't have given us colour receptors in our eyes. Paul Speaker-to-Customers

2003-05-02 02:18:16+01:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Speaker-to-Customers <greebo@manx.net>)


forge wrote: > Pine106887 wrote: > >> One last thing...if you're gonna catch the Maltese Falcon, PLEASE >> watch it in black and white, not the colorized. Huge, HUGE >> difference! > > Better still, forget colorization ever existed. Colorization is a wonderful thing. It can turn unwatchable black-and-white crap into masterpieces. I hadn't realised there was a colorized Maltese Falcon. I must try to find and watch it. If God had meant us to watch black-and-white films He wouldn't have given us colour receptors in our eyes. Paul Speaker-to-Customers

2003-05-02 12:55:13+01:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Speaker-to-Customers <greebo@manx.net>)


forge wrote: > "Speaker-to-Customers" wrote: (Snip) >> Colorization is a wonderful thing. It can turn unwatchable black- >> and-white crap into masterpieces. >> > Colorization blows because colorizers don't have the first iota of a > clue what color the director intended things to be. Military movies > are especially funny because men in khaki uniforms are basically khaki > from the top of their hats to the cuffs on their pants, like they were > painted with a roller or something. Not true. Did you see the Discovery Channel series of the rare colour documentary footage shot during the Second World War? And have you seen the colorized version of "The Longest Day"? It is absolutely perfect. The uniforms are subtly shaded, the whole thing could have been taken straight from the documentary footage. It brought everything to life. I'd never thought much of the black and white version, but the colorized one was a masterpiece. Black and white films lose much of their impact because the real world is not black and white. Some are still great, such as Casablanca, but that's because of the dialogue. I'd like to be able to see versions where the people look like real people and not like grey-skinned aliens. Paul Speaker-to-Customers

2003-05-02 12:55:13+01:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Speaker-to-Customers <greebo@manx.net>)


forge wrote: > "Speaker-to-Customers" wrote: (Snip) >> Colorization is a wonderful thing. It can turn unwatchable black- >> and-white crap into masterpieces. >> > Colorization blows because colorizers don't have the first iota of a > clue what color the director intended things to be. Military movies > are especially funny because men in khaki uniforms are basically khaki > from the top of their hats to the cuffs on their pants, like they were > painted with a roller or something. Not true. Did you see the Discovery Channel series of the rare colour documentary footage shot during the Second World War? And have you seen the colorized version of "The Longest Day"? It is absolutely perfect. The uniforms are subtly shaded, the whole thing could have been taken straight from the documentary footage. It brought everything to life. I'd never thought much of the black and white version, but the colorized one was a masterpiece. Black and white films lose much of their impact because the real world is not black and white. Some are still great, such as Casablanca, but that's because of the dialogue. I'd like to be able to see versions where the people look like real people and not like grey-skinned aliens. Paul Speaker-to-Customers

2003-05-02 13:06:39-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Chelsea Christenson <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com>)


Speaker-to-Customers wrote: > forge wrote: > > "Speaker-to-Customers" wrote: > > (Snip) > > >> Colorization is a wonderful thing. It can turn unwatchable black- > >> and-white crap into masterpieces. > >> > > Colorization blows because colorizers don't have the first iota of a > > clue what color the director intended things to be. Military movies > > are especially funny because men in khaki uniforms are basically khaki > > from the top of their hats to the cuffs on their pants, like they were > > painted with a roller or something. > > Not true. Did you see the Discovery Channel series of the rare colour > documentary footage shot during the Second World War? And have you seen the > colorized version of "The Longest Day"? It is absolutely perfect. > > The uniforms are subtly shaded, the whole thing could have been taken > straight from the documentary footage. It brought everything to life. I'd > never thought much of the black and white version, but the colorized one was > a masterpiece. How did they know what colors to use? Directors who filmed in black and white used costumes and set design based on how those colors would look in black and white, not how they would look in color. > Black and white films lose much of their impact because the real world is > not black and white. I've never had a problem getting transported into a black and white film. > Some are still great, such as Casablanca, but that's because of the dialogue. Great movies are great movies. Hollywood pumped out a lot more movies in the black-and-white era; people didn't have television then, after all. The quality varied as much as it does today, or as much as television quality varies.

2003-05-02 13:06:39-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Chelsea Christenson <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com>)


Speaker-to-Customers wrote: > forge wrote: > > "Speaker-to-Customers" wrote: > > (Snip) > > >> Colorization is a wonderful thing. It can turn unwatchable black- > >> and-white crap into masterpieces. > >> > > Colorization blows because colorizers don't have the first iota of a > > clue what color the director intended things to be. Military movies > > are especially funny because men in khaki uniforms are basically khaki > > from the top of their hats to the cuffs on their pants, like they were > > painted with a roller or something. > > Not true. Did you see the Discovery Channel series of the rare colour > documentary footage shot during the Second World War? And have you seen the > colorized version of "The Longest Day"? It is absolutely perfect. > > The uniforms are subtly shaded, the whole thing could have been taken > straight from the documentary footage. It brought everything to life. I'd > never thought much of the black and white version, but the colorized one was > a masterpiece. How did they know what colors to use? Directors who filmed in black and white used costumes and set design based on how those colors would look in black and white, not how they would look in color. > Black and white films lose much of their impact because the real world is > not black and white. I've never had a problem getting transported into a black and white film. > Some are still great, such as Casablanca, but that's because of the dialogue. Great movies are great movies. Hollywood pumped out a lot more movies in the black-and-white era; people didn't have television then, after all. The quality varied as much as it does today, or as much as television quality varies.

2003-05-02 16:55:18+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (pine106887@aol.comnospam)


I tried to watch The Maltese Falcon in its colorized corruption. All those beautiful lines and planes and shadings that gave the B&W depth and sharpness were flattened out in a greenish tinge. Blech. pine

2003-05-02 16:55:18+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (pine106887@aol.comnospam)


I tried to watch The Maltese Falcon in its colorized corruption. All those beautiful lines and planes and shadings that gave the B&W depth and sharpness were flattened out in a greenish tinge. Blech. pine

2003-05-02 17:39:55-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Chelsea Christenson <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com>)


Growltiger wrote: > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com > wrote in article <3EB2A59F.FCDAD67D@oracle.com>... > > > How did they know what colors to use? Directors who filmed in black and white > > used costumes and set design based on how those colors would look in black and > > white, not how they would look in color. > > > > Movie makers in the 1940s were not complete primitives! Warner Bros. > was famous for its Decolourization System [tm] which it gave its > directors and producers to better exploit film noir. I didn't say they were primitive; I said they worked with their medium. And people filmed in black and white before the 1940s. So there.

2003-05-02 17:39:55-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Chelsea Christenson <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com>)


Growltiger wrote: > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com > wrote in article <3EB2A59F.FCDAD67D@oracle.com>... > > > How did they know what colors to use? Directors who filmed in black and white > > used costumes and set design based on how those colors would look in black and > > white, not how they would look in color. > > > > Movie makers in the 1940s were not complete primitives! Warner Bros. > was famous for its Decolourization System [tm] which it gave its > directors and producers to better exploit film noir. I didn't say they were primitive; I said they worked with their medium. And people filmed in black and white before the 1940s. So there.

2003-05-02 20:44:20+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com wrote in article <3EB2A59F.FCDAD67D@oracle.com>... > Speaker-to-Customers wrote: > > > forge wrote: > > > "Speaker-to-Customers" wrote: > > > > (Snip) > > > > >> Colorization is a wonderful thing. It can turn unwatchable black- > > >> and-white crap into masterpieces. > > >> > > > Colorization blows because colorizers don't have the first iota of a > > > clue what color the director intended things to be. Military movies > > > are especially funny because men in khaki uniforms are basically khaki > > > from the top of their hats to the cuffs on their pants, like they were > > > painted with a roller or something. > > > > Not true. Did you see the Discovery Channel series of the rare colour > > documentary footage shot during the Second World War? And have you seen the > > colorized version of "The Longest Day"? It is absolutely perfect. > > > > The uniforms are subtly shaded, the whole thing could have been taken > > straight from the documentary footage. It brought everything to life. I'd > > never thought much of the black and white version, but the colorized one was > > a masterpiece. > > How did they know what colors to use? Directors who filmed in black and white > used costumes and set design based on how those colors would look in black and > white, not how they would look in color. > Movie makers in the 1940s were not complete primitives! Warner Bros. was famous for its Decolourization System [tm] which it gave its directors and producers to better exploit film noir. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-05-02 20:44:20+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com wrote in article <3EB2A59F.FCDAD67D@oracle.com>... > Speaker-to-Customers wrote: > > > forge wrote: > > > "Speaker-to-Customers" wrote: > > > > (Snip) > > > > >> Colorization is a wonderful thing. It can turn unwatchable black- > > >> and-white crap into masterpieces. > > >> > > > Colorization blows because colorizers don't have the first iota of a > > > clue what color the director intended things to be. Military movies > > > are especially funny because men in khaki uniforms are basically khaki > > > from the top of their hats to the cuffs on their pants, like they were > > > painted with a roller or something. > > > > Not true. Did you see the Discovery Channel series of the rare colour > > documentary footage shot during the Second World War? And have you seen the > > colorized version of "The Longest Day"? It is absolutely perfect. > > > > The uniforms are subtly shaded, the whole thing could have been taken > > straight from the documentary footage. It brought everything to life. I'd > > never thought much of the black and white version, but the colorized one was > > a masterpiece. > > How did they know what colors to use? Directors who filmed in black and white > used costumes and set design based on how those colors would look in black and > white, not how they would look in color. > Movie makers in the 1940s were not complete primitives! Warner Bros. was famous for its Decolourization System [tm] which it gave its directors and producers to better exploit film noir. -- Be seeing you, Growltiger

2003-05-02 21:46:35-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Chelsea Christenson <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com>)


Growltiger wrote: > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com > wrote in article <3EB2E5AB.DB4E4C8D@oracle.com>... > > Growltiger wrote: > > > > > Movie makers in the 1940s were not complete primitives! Warner Bros. > > > was famous for its Decolourization System [tm] which it gave its > > > directors and producers to better exploit film noir. > > > > I didn't say they were primitive; I said they worked with their medium. And people > > filmed in black and white before the 1940s. So there. > > > > > > I take it the reference to the mythical Decolourization System [get it, > they had colour and removed it] did not amuse you. Sorry. It was a > lame joke. Quite honestly, I couldn't tell if it was a joke or not. Technology is weird; Hollywood is weird; Hollywood technology is beyond classification....

2003-05-02 21:46:35-04:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Chelsea Christenson <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com>)


Growltiger wrote: > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com > wrote in article <3EB2E5AB.DB4E4C8D@oracle.com>... > > Growltiger wrote: > > > > > Movie makers in the 1940s were not complete primitives! Warner Bros. > > > was famous for its Decolourization System [tm] which it gave its > > > directors and producers to better exploit film noir. > > > > I didn't say they were primitive; I said they worked with their medium. And people > > filmed in black and white before the 1940s. So there. > > > > > > I take it the reference to the mythical Decolourization System [get it, > they had colour and removed it] did not amuse you. Sorry. It was a > lame joke. Quite honestly, I couldn't tell if it was a joke or not. Technology is weird; Hollywood is weird; Hollywood technology is beyond classification....

2003-05-03 00:17:42+01:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Speaker-to-Customers <greebo@manx.net>)


Chelsea Christenson wrote: > Speaker-to-Customers wrote: > >> forge wrote: >>> "Speaker-to-Customers" wrote: >> >> (Snip) >> >>>> Colorization is a wonderful thing. It can turn unwatchable black- >>>> and-white crap into masterpieces. >>>> >>> Colorization blows because colorizers don't have the first iota of a >>> clue what color the director intended things to be. Military movies >>> are especially funny because men in khaki uniforms are basically >>> khaki from the top of their hats to the cuffs on their pants, like >>> they were painted with a roller or something. >> >> Not true. Did you see the Discovery Channel series of the rare >> colour documentary footage shot during the Second World War? And >> have you seen the colorized version of "The Longest Day"? It is >> absolutely perfect. >> >> The uniforms are subtly shaded, the whole thing could have been taken >> straight from the documentary footage. It brought everything to >> life. I'd never thought much of the black and white version, but >> the colorized one was a masterpiece. > > How did they know what colors to use? Directors who filmed in black > and white used costumes and set design based on how those colors > would look in black and white, not how they would look in color. For "The Longest Day" I presume the colourisers watched the colour footage shot during the war, looked at uniforms and vehicles in museums, etc. Whatever they did, they got it absolutely right. Paul Speaker-to-Customers

2003-05-03 00:17:42+01:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Speaker-to-Customers <greebo@manx.net>)


Chelsea Christenson wrote: > Speaker-to-Customers wrote: > >> forge wrote: >>> "Speaker-to-Customers" wrote: >> >> (Snip) >> >>>> Colorization is a wonderful thing. It can turn unwatchable black- >>>> and-white crap into masterpieces. >>>> >>> Colorization blows because colorizers don't have the first iota of a >>> clue what color the director intended things to be. Military movies >>> are especially funny because men in khaki uniforms are basically >>> khaki from the top of their hats to the cuffs on their pants, like >>> they were painted with a roller or something. >> >> Not true. Did you see the Discovery Channel series of the rare >> colour documentary footage shot during the Second World War? And >> have you seen the colorized version of "The Longest Day"? It is >> absolutely perfect. >> >> The uniforms are subtly shaded, the whole thing could have been taken >> straight from the documentary footage. It brought everything to >> life. I'd never thought much of the black and white version, but >> the colorized one was a masterpiece. > > How did they know what colors to use? Directors who filmed in black > and white used costumes and set design based on how those colors > would look in black and white, not how they would look in color. For "The Longest Day" I presume the colourisers watched the colour footage shot during the war, looked at uniforms and vehicles in museums, etc. Whatever they did, they got it absolutely right. Paul Speaker-to-Customers

2003-05-03 00:28:37+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom)


In article <h8p3bvcqem6pjgl78jfk12ocosf4l0s489@4ax.com>, forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net> writes: >"If God had meant us to watch black-and-white films..." ...you do know >filmmakers have had access to color film since the early 30s right? >Yet very few used it, notable exceptions being "The Wizard of Oz" and >other cinematic spectacles. Such as that big Civil War movie. What was it called again? > Why? It wasn't necessary to tell the >story. No, because it was a hell of a lot more expensive to shoot in color. Why is color "necessary" to the stories told today? > "Citizen Kane" could very easily have been made in color, but >it wasn't, because the filmmaker knew he could tell the story more >dramatically in stark, heartless black and white. > And because Orson Welles had a low budget. >Colorization blows because colorizers don't have the first iota of a >clue what color the director intended things to be. Military movies >are especially funny because men in khaki uniforms are basically khaki >from the top of their hats to the cuffs on their pants, like they were >painted with a roller or something. > >The colorized "Casablanca" is a joke - not only does color not add a >damn thing, it actually detracts from the story. Surprisingly, it was >the same with "Miracle on 34th Street." The colorized version of "It's >a Wonderful Life" is a joke - the cold, harsh "world without George" >turns into a bizarro Christmas Wonderland in color. And in color >Lionel Barrymore as the Evil Nasty Mr Potter suddenly just looks like >somebody's good ol' Uncle Joe. > The bastards de-colorized the first half of "The Wizard of Oz" too. >There's a reason colorization was abandoned almost 20 years ago. Is that true? Hallelujah. > It >was shit and everybody knew it. The ONLY good thing that came of it >was, when a colorized film was released, a black-and-white version of >the same pristine print they worked from to do the colorization was >released simultaneously. > I think the same (or very similar) technology invented to colorize film is now used to restore film, too. So that's another good thing. Your pal, Barney As soon as you are seated, express the wish that the orchestra will play Beethoven's Fifth. If your companion asks, "Fifth what?" you are safe for the rest of the evening. - Donald Ogden Stewart, "On Taking a Lady to a Concert"

2003-05-03 00:28:37+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom)


In article <h8p3bvcqem6pjgl78jfk12ocosf4l0s489@4ax.com>, forge <bake455@spamsucks.bellsouth.net> writes: >"If God had meant us to watch black-and-white films..." ...you do know >filmmakers have had access to color film since the early 30s right? >Yet very few used it, notable exceptions being "The Wizard of Oz" and >other cinematic spectacles. Such as that big Civil War movie. What was it called again? > Why? It wasn't necessary to tell the >story. No, because it was a hell of a lot more expensive to shoot in color. Why is color "necessary" to the stories told today? > "Citizen Kane" could very easily have been made in color, but >it wasn't, because the filmmaker knew he could tell the story more >dramatically in stark, heartless black and white. > And because Orson Welles had a low budget. >Colorization blows because colorizers don't have the first iota of a >clue what color the director intended things to be. Military movies >are especially funny because men in khaki uniforms are basically khaki >from the top of their hats to the cuffs on their pants, like they were >painted with a roller or something. > >The colorized "Casablanca" is a joke - not only does color not add a >damn thing, it actually detracts from the story. Surprisingly, it was >the same with "Miracle on 34th Street." The colorized version of "It's >a Wonderful Life" is a joke - the cold, harsh "world without George" >turns into a bizarro Christmas Wonderland in color. And in color >Lionel Barrymore as the Evil Nasty Mr Potter suddenly just looks like >somebody's good ol' Uncle Joe. > The bastards de-colorized the first half of "The Wizard of Oz" too. >There's a reason colorization was abandoned almost 20 years ago. Is that true? Hallelujah. > It >was shit and everybody knew it. The ONLY good thing that came of it >was, when a colorized film was released, a black-and-white version of >the same pristine print they worked from to do the colorization was >released simultaneously. > I think the same (or very similar) technology invented to colorize film is now used to restore film, too. So that's another good thing. Your pal, Barney As soon as you are seated, express the wish that the orchestra will play Beethoven's Fifth. If your companion asks, "Fifth what?" you are safe for the rest of the evening. - Donald Ogden Stewart, "On Taking a Lady to a Concert"

2003-05-03 00:28:39+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom)


In article <3EB2A59F.FCDAD67D@oracle.com>, Chelsea Christenson <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com> writes: >> Black and white films lose much of their impact because the real world is >> not black and white. > >I've never had a problem getting transported into a black and white film. > Me, neither. And it doesn't bother me that the people in movies are much more attractive than they are in the real world, or that the actors stand in bizarre, unnatural positions for the benefit of the camera, or that music plays in the background, even though in the real world orchestras don't follow us around. It's called stylization. It's called art. >> Some are still great, such as Casablanca, but that's because of the >dialogue. > LOL. The dialogue in Casablanca is near-atrocious cornball stuff embarrassing to listen to. For great dialogue, turn to the Maltese Falcon. >Great movies are great movies. Hollywood pumped out a lot more movies in the >black-and-white era; people didn't have television then, after all. The >quality varied as much as it does today, or as much as television quality varies. > Very important point. We tend to think of a "golden era" in Hollywood when we watch films like Citizen Kane and The Maltese Falcon but those movies were very exceptional. The rest were drivel. I would argue, though, that in terms of storytelling and simple intelligibility, the average movie back then was better than the average movie today. Your pal, Barney As soon as you are seated, express the wish that the orchestra will play Beethoven's Fifth. If your companion asks, "Fifth what?" you are safe for the rest of the evening. - Donald Ogden Stewart, "On Taking a Lady to a Concert"

2003-05-03 00:28:39+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (schlitzdrinker@aol.comekingdom)


In article <3EB2A59F.FCDAD67D@oracle.com>, Chelsea Christenson <Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com> writes: >> Black and white films lose much of their impact because the real world is >> not black and white. > >I've never had a problem getting transported into a black and white film. > Me, neither. And it doesn't bother me that the people in movies are much more attractive than they are in the real world, or that the actors stand in bizarre, unnatural positions for the benefit of the camera, or that music plays in the background, even though in the real world orchestras don't follow us around. It's called stylization. It's called art. >> Some are still great, such as Casablanca, but that's because of the >dialogue. > LOL. The dialogue in Casablanca is near-atrocious cornball stuff embarrassing to listen to. For great dialogue, turn to the Maltese Falcon. >Great movies are great movies. Hollywood pumped out a lot more movies in the >black-and-white era; people didn't have television then, after all. The >quality varied as much as it does today, or as much as television quality varies. > Very important point. We tend to think of a "golden era" in Hollywood when we watch films like Citizen Kane and The Maltese Falcon but those movies were very exceptional. The rest were drivel. I would argue, though, that in terms of storytelling and simple intelligibility, the average movie back then was better than the average movie today. Your pal, Barney As soon as you are seated, express the wish that the orchestra will play Beethoven's Fifth. If your companion asks, "Fifth what?" you are safe for the rest of the evening. - Donald Ogden Stewart, "On Taking a Lady to a Concert"

2003-05-03 01:17:55+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com wrote in article <3EB2E5AB.DB4E4C8D@oracle.com>... > Growltiger wrote: > > > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com > > wrote in article <3EB2A59F.FCDAD67D@oracle.com>... > > > > > How did they know what colors to use? Directors who filmed in black and white > > > used costumes and set design based on how those colors would look in black and > > > white, not how they would look in color. > > > > > > > Movie makers in the 1940s were not complete primitives! Warner Bros. > > was famous for its Decolourization System [tm] which it gave its > > directors and producers to better exploit film noir. > > I didn't say they were primitive; I said they worked with their medium. And people > filmed in black and white before the 1940s. So there. > > I take it the reference to the mythical Decolourization System [get it, they had colour and removed it] did not amuse you. Sorry. It was a lame joke. -- Cowering in the tall grass, licking his wounds, Growltiger

2003-05-03 01:17:55+00:00 - Re: Do kids today even know Spock? - (Growltiger <tyger@never.invalid>)


Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com wrote in article <3EB2E5AB.DB4E4C8D@oracle.com>... > Growltiger wrote: > > > Previously on alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer, Chelsea.Christenson@oracle.com > > wrote in article <3EB2A59F.FCDAD67D@oracle.com>... > > > > > How did they know what colors to use? Directors who filmed in black and white > > > used costumes and set design based on how those colors would look in black and > > > white, not how they would look in color. > > > > > > > Movie makers in the 1940s were not complete primitives! Warner Bros. > > was famous for its Decolourization System [tm] which it gave its > > directors and producers to better exploit film noir. > > I didn't say they were primitive; I said they worked with their medium. And people > filmed in black and white before the 1940s. So there. > > I take it the reference to the mythical Decolourization System [get it, they had colour and removed it] did not amuse you. Sorry. It was a lame joke. -- Cowering in the tall grass, licking his wounds, Growltiger