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2003-01-06 14:21:59-08:00 - Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (salmoneous@aol.com)


There have been several recent questions about the S1 "Lost Episodes." Since I'm not aware of any FAQ on the subject, I put together what I recall from previous ATBvS discussion. Did I miss anything? Buffy The Vampire Slayer - The Lost Season 1 Episodes Season 5 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer introduced the supposedly new character of Dawn, Buffy's never before seen sister. However, several long time viewers posted to the usenet forum alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer that Dawn was not new. They swore they had seen her before. Either the fictional monks of the Buffyverse had somehow put memories into real world televsion viewers, or something else was going on. A little investigation from AVBvS readers who worked in the industry quickly turned up the explanation - one the fortunately didn't involve fictional characters affection the real world. Michelle Trachtenburg, the actress who plays Dawn, had in fact been a member of the BtVS cast from the beginning. She was prominently featured in many first season episodes. However, her appearances tapered off as her film career blossomed. Her second season appearances typically involved only a few lines or a place at the Summers' dinner table. By season three, she was left out of many episodes altogether. It is believed that she didn't appear at all in any season four episodes. Buffy's creator, Joss Whedon, is nothing if not a student of classic television. Previously, while working on Roseanne's television show, he faced the problem of how to deal with an actress leaving the show. Joss reached back into the annals of TV history and borrowed Bewitched's "Two Darren" solution to come up with Roseanne's Two Beckys. Joss had so much fun with that, that he borrowed another classic TV solution to resolve the problem with MT's inability to commit time to the show. This time he borrowed the "Disappearing Chuck" solution from Happy Days to simply pretend that Dawn had never been a part of the show at all. Joss, being Joss, went all out with Disappearing Dawn. Not only were all mentions of Dawn kept from new shows, but also all evidence of Dawn was removed from episodes already filmed. For seasons 2 and 3, the editing was relatively easy. Only a few seconds needed to be snipped here and there, and it is these edited episodes that appear in syndication and reruns. Careful noting of the running times will show that up to 2 full minutes are missing from these shows. In a couple of instances, the editing was not complete and bits of Dawn - usually views from the back - can still be seen. ATBvS readers take great delight in "Spotting Dawn" and many debates have raged as to whether a generic long-haired brunette head-back is Dawn or not. Perhaps the most uncontroversial Dawn Spotting is during the big fight scene in Graduation Day 2. Unfortunately, the season 1 episodes were more problematic. Dawn's role was too significant in many episodes to be edited around. These episodes were simply dropped when the show was rerun and put in syndication. Only 12 season 1 episodes are shown in syndication, while every other season has 22. The 10 Dawn-centric episodes that were dropped are known as the Lost Episodes. As crazy as it seems, this ruse has been mostly successful. Apparently, so few people were watching the show from the start that almost all memories come not from the original airings, but from syndication. The ironic thing is that MT's film career did not take off as planned, and she ended up looking for work at the exact time the Buffy producers were looking for young blood to pump up the show's teen demographics. No one is quite sure why Joss decided to reintroduce Dawn as a "new" character instead of just having her start appearing in episodes again. Some think that once Dawn had been disappeared, Joss was unwilling to admit the gag and had to go along with the Dawn=Key story. A better explanation is the Joss thought the Dawn=Key plot would make for good storytelling and decided to go with it despite possible inconsistencies. The BtVS creative staff has always maintained that they aim for good stories first and worry about consistency later, so it seems fitting that they would try such a stunt. That's about it. One final plea: If anyone happened to be taping the show from the original season 1 airdates and has VHS tape of a Lost Episodes, please post the details here on ATBvS. Though many rumors exist as to what was in those episodes, I am not aware of *any* hard evidence of their plots, or even that they even existed.

2003-01-06 14:21:59-08:00 - Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (salmoneous@aol.com)


There have been several recent questions about the S1 "Lost Episodes." Since I'm not aware of any FAQ on the subject, I put together what I recall from previous ATBvS discussion. Did I miss anything? Buffy The Vampire Slayer - The Lost Season 1 Episodes Season 5 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer introduced the supposedly new character of Dawn, Buffy's never before seen sister. However, several long time viewers posted to the usenet forum alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer that Dawn was not new. They swore they had seen her before. Either the fictional monks of the Buffyverse had somehow put memories into real world televsion viewers, or something else was going on. A little investigation from AVBvS readers who worked in the industry quickly turned up the explanation - one the fortunately didn't involve fictional characters affection the real world. Michelle Trachtenburg, the actress who plays Dawn, had in fact been a member of the BtVS cast from the beginning. She was prominently featured in many first season episodes. However, her appearances tapered off as her film career blossomed. Her second season appearances typically involved only a few lines or a place at the Summers' dinner table. By season three, she was left out of many episodes altogether. It is believed that she didn't appear at all in any season four episodes. Buffy's creator, Joss Whedon, is nothing if not a student of classic television. Previously, while working on Roseanne's television show, he faced the problem of how to deal with an actress leaving the show. Joss reached back into the annals of TV history and borrowed Bewitched's "Two Darren" solution to come up with Roseanne's Two Beckys. Joss had so much fun with that, that he borrowed another classic TV solution to resolve the problem with MT's inability to commit time to the show. This time he borrowed the "Disappearing Chuck" solution from Happy Days to simply pretend that Dawn had never been a part of the show at all. Joss, being Joss, went all out with Disappearing Dawn. Not only were all mentions of Dawn kept from new shows, but also all evidence of Dawn was removed from episodes already filmed. For seasons 2 and 3, the editing was relatively easy. Only a few seconds needed to be snipped here and there, and it is these edited episodes that appear in syndication and reruns. Careful noting of the running times will show that up to 2 full minutes are missing from these shows. In a couple of instances, the editing was not complete and bits of Dawn - usually views from the back - can still be seen. ATBvS readers take great delight in "Spotting Dawn" and many debates have raged as to whether a generic long-haired brunette head-back is Dawn or not. Perhaps the most uncontroversial Dawn Spotting is during the big fight scene in Graduation Day 2. Unfortunately, the season 1 episodes were more problematic. Dawn's role was too significant in many episodes to be edited around. These episodes were simply dropped when the show was rerun and put in syndication. Only 12 season 1 episodes are shown in syndication, while every other season has 22. The 10 Dawn-centric episodes that were dropped are known as the Lost Episodes. As crazy as it seems, this ruse has been mostly successful. Apparently, so few people were watching the show from the start that almost all memories come not from the original airings, but from syndication. The ironic thing is that MT's film career did not take off as planned, and she ended up looking for work at the exact time the Buffy producers were looking for young blood to pump up the show's teen demographics. No one is quite sure why Joss decided to reintroduce Dawn as a "new" character instead of just having her start appearing in episodes again. Some think that once Dawn had been disappeared, Joss was unwilling to admit the gag and had to go along with the Dawn=Key story. A better explanation is the Joss thought the Dawn=Key plot would make for good storytelling and decided to go with it despite possible inconsistencies. The BtVS creative staff has always maintained that they aim for good stories first and worry about consistency later, so it seems fitting that they would try such a stunt. That's about it. One final plea: If anyone happened to be taping the show from the original season 1 airdates and has VHS tape of a Lost Episodes, please post the details here on ATBvS. Though many rumors exist as to what was in those episodes, I am not aware of *any* hard evidence of their plots, or even that they even existed.

2003-01-06 16:42:55-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (-Andy- <acs@fcgnet.works.net>)


salmoneous@aol.com (salmoneous) enlightened us with news:54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com on 06 Jan 2003: > There have been several recent questions about the S1 "Lost > Episodes." Since I'm not aware of any FAQ on the subject, I put > together what I recall from previous ATBvS discussion. Did I > miss anything? Yes. The titles of the episodes themselves :-) that I posted recently. See Google for the following article on Dec. 12, 2002: "Season 1: The Lost Episodes" That particular thread is chock full of info on the episodes :-) (Including alternative titles) though your research has added an additional facet/depth to discussions of it. Thanks :-). -Andy-

2003-01-06 16:42:55-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (-Andy- <acs@fcgnet.works.net>)


salmoneous@aol.com (salmoneous) enlightened us with news:54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com on 06 Jan 2003: > There have been several recent questions about the S1 "Lost > Episodes." Since I'm not aware of any FAQ on the subject, I put > together what I recall from previous ATBvS discussion. Did I > miss anything? Yes. The titles of the episodes themselves :-) that I posted recently. See Google for the following article on Dec. 12, 2002: "Season 1: The Lost Episodes" That particular thread is chock full of info on the episodes :-) (Including alternative titles) though your research has added an additional facet/depth to discussions of it. Thanks :-). -Andy-

2003-01-06 17:59:11-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <S3pS9.55006$4j5.7843811@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>, Jeremy <ragnar_danneskold@yahoo.com> wrote: > I don't get it... It's avant-garde. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-01-06 17:59:11-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Don Sample <dsample@synapse.net>)


In article <S3pS9.55006$4j5.7843811@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>, Jeremy <ragnar_danneskold@yahoo.com> wrote: > I don't get it... It's avant-garde. -- Don Sample, dsample@synapse.net Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/ Quando omni flunkus moritati

2003-01-06 18:02:09-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - ("Stimpson J. Cat" <house@next.tuesday>)


Lunacy. Stimpson

2003-01-06 18:02:09-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - ("Stimpson J. Cat" <house@next.tuesday>)


Lunacy. Stimpson

2003-01-06 18:43:20-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net>)


Stimpson J. Cat wrote: > Lunacy. > > Stimpson No sense of humor. Jul

2003-01-06 18:43:20-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net>)


Stimpson J. Cat wrote: > Lunacy. > > Stimpson No sense of humor. Jul

2003-01-06 19:30:03-08:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (toasterboy@hotmail.com)


sillyman@famous.com wrote in message news:<3e1a0fe0.9095045@news.telus.net>... > I'm curious how they > explain the preteen presence at the high school, and would really like > to see how the stuntwork has evolved between now and then. It was outstanding! Verne Troyer was MT's stunt double back then. --Nick

2003-01-06 19:30:03-08:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (toasterboy@hotmail.com)


sillyman@famous.com wrote in message news:<3e1a0fe0.9095045@news.telus.net>... > I'm curious how they > explain the preteen presence at the high school, and would really like > to see how the stuntwork has evolved between now and then. It was outstanding! Verne Troyer was MT's stunt double back then. --Nick

2003-01-06 20:33:57-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - ("Stimpson J. Cat" <house@next.tuesday>)


On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:43:20 -0600, "Juleen" <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: > >No sense of humor. >Jul > Whatever. I just said it was lunacy. I actually couldn't tell if the author was serious though, until the part about the flying monkeys and Dawn screaming "get out get out get out!!". Those six words have ruined poor dawn to so many people!! It's lunacy! And I do too have a sense of humor. You are fat. Stimpson

2003-01-06 20:33:57-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - ("Stimpson J. Cat" <house@next.tuesday>)


On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:43:20 -0600, "Juleen" <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: > >No sense of humor. >Jul > Whatever. I just said it was lunacy. I actually couldn't tell if the author was serious though, until the part about the flying monkeys and Dawn screaming "get out get out get out!!". Those six words have ruined poor dawn to so many people!! It's lunacy! And I do too have a sense of humor. You are fat. Stimpson

2003-01-06 21:03:49-07:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (William George Ferguson <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com>)


sillyman@famous.com wrote: >I haven't seen any of the lost episodes. I'd sure like to. I read a >short description of the flying monkey episode (don't know the title) >that sounded interesting. "Run, Juliet" It's probably the lost episode with the most complete synopsis floating around. >Apparently Buffy comes swinging down from >the gym ceiling on a rope to rescue Cordelia while a 9 year old Dawn >screams "Get out get out" in the background. I'm curious how they >explain the preteen presence at the high school, and would really like >to see how the stuntwork has evolved between now and then. -- I think it's entirely possible that we might try to fool people hell bent on spoiling our season. We're deceptive people. We promote sex and violence and the occult. Frankly, we're just not good seeds. -- Drew Goddard (Bronze Beta 8/28/2002)

2003-01-06 21:03:49-07:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (William George Ferguson <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com>)


sillyman@famous.com wrote: >I haven't seen any of the lost episodes. I'd sure like to. I read a >short description of the flying monkey episode (don't know the title) >that sounded interesting. "Run, Juliet" It's probably the lost episode with the most complete synopsis floating around. >Apparently Buffy comes swinging down from >the gym ceiling on a rope to rescue Cordelia while a 9 year old Dawn >screams "Get out get out" in the background. I'm curious how they >explain the preteen presence at the high school, and would really like >to see how the stuntwork has evolved between now and then. -- I think it's entirely possible that we might try to fool people hell bent on spoiling our season. We're deceptive people. We promote sex and violence and the occult. Frankly, we're just not good seeds. -- Drew Goddard (Bronze Beta 8/28/2002)

2003-01-06 21:14:53-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - ("Stimpson J. Cat" <house@next.tuesday>)


On Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:54:29 GMT, sillyman@famous.com wrote: >Don't keep me in suspense! Was I serious or wasn't I?!? > Yes... Yes You were. The flying monkeys were of course summoned by Andrew, as we all know. That is why when Andrew keeps saying "Don't you remember, I'm the one who summoned the flying monkeys", we all say "what?". That was in one of the lost episodes. We never saw it happen. It turns out Dawns fourth grade class was on a field trip to watch the high school talent show, hence the hysterical screeching. My feeble mind actually confused your reply with the original post. I knew YOU were serious. I wasn't sure about the post by salmaneous. I thought he was the one who mentioned the flying monkeys. My mistake. Stimpson

2003-01-06 21:14:53-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - ("Stimpson J. Cat" <house@next.tuesday>)


On Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:54:29 GMT, sillyman@famous.com wrote: >Don't keep me in suspense! Was I serious or wasn't I?!? > Yes... Yes You were. The flying monkeys were of course summoned by Andrew, as we all know. That is why when Andrew keeps saying "Don't you remember, I'm the one who summoned the flying monkeys", we all say "what?". That was in one of the lost episodes. We never saw it happen. It turns out Dawns fourth grade class was on a field trip to watch the high school talent show, hence the hysterical screeching. My feeble mind actually confused your reply with the original post. I knew YOU were serious. I wasn't sure about the post by salmaneous. I thought he was the one who mentioned the flying monkeys. My mistake. Stimpson

2003-01-06 21:34:13-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net>)


Stimpson J. Cat wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:43:20 -0600, "Juleen" > <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: >> >> No sense of humor. >> Jul >> > Whatever. I just said it was lunacy. I actually couldn't tell if the > author was serious though, until the part about the flying monkeys and > Dawn screaming "get out get out get out!!". Those six words have > ruined poor dawn to so many people!! It's lunacy! > > And I do too have a sense of humor. > > You are fat. > > Stimpson Damn you noticed, and here I've been trying to type thinner. Could just be that my syntax makes my ass look big. Jul

2003-01-06 21:34:13-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net>)


Stimpson J. Cat wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 18:43:20 -0600, "Juleen" > <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: >> >> No sense of humor. >> Jul >> > Whatever. I just said it was lunacy. I actually couldn't tell if the > author was serious though, until the part about the flying monkeys and > Dawn screaming "get out get out get out!!". Those six words have > ruined poor dawn to so many people!! It's lunacy! > > And I do too have a sense of humor. > > You are fat. > > Stimpson Damn you noticed, and here I've been trying to type thinner. Could just be that my syntax makes my ass look big. Jul

2003-01-06 22:25:17-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - ("Stimpson J. Cat" <house@next.tuesday>)


On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:34:13 -0600, "Juleen" <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: >> >> You are fat. >> >> Stimpson > >Damn you noticed, and here I've been trying to type thinner. >Jul > That's like wearing vertical stripes in an effort to look thinner. It doesn't work very good. Maybe it was horizontal stripes? I forget. Stimpson

2003-01-06 22:25:17-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - ("Stimpson J. Cat" <house@next.tuesday>)


On Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:34:13 -0600, "Juleen" <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote: >> >> You are fat. >> >> Stimpson > >Damn you noticed, and here I've been trying to type thinner. >Jul > That's like wearing vertical stripes in an effort to look thinner. It doesn't work very good. Maybe it was horizontal stripes? I forget. Stimpson

2003-01-06 22:29:02+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Dreggs <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap>)


"salmoneous" <salmoneous@aol.com> wrote in message news:54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com... > There have been several recent questions about the S1 "Lost Episodes." > Since I'm not aware of any FAQ on the subject, I put together what I > recall from previous ATBvS discussion. Did I miss anything? > > Buffy The Vampire Slayer - The Lost Season 1 Episodes > > Season 5 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer introduced the supposedly new > character of Dawn, Buffy's never before seen sister. However, several > long time viewers posted to the usenet forum alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer > that Dawn was not new. They swore they had seen her before. Either the > fictional monks of the Buffyverse had somehow put memories into real > world televsion viewers, or something else was going on. A little > investigation from AVBvS readers who worked in the industry quickly > turned up the explanation - one the fortunately didn't involve > fictional characters affection the real world. > > Michelle Trachtenburg, the actress who plays Dawn, had in fact been a > member of the BtVS cast from the beginning. She was prominently > featured in many first season episodes. However, her appearances > tapered off as her film career blossomed. Her second season > appearances typically involved only a few lines or a place at the > Summers' dinner table. By season three, she was left out of many > episodes altogether. It is believed that she didn't appear at all in > any season four episodes. > > Buffy's creator, Joss Whedon, is nothing if not a student of classic > television. Previously, while working on Roseanne's television show, > he faced the problem of how to deal with an actress leaving the show. > Joss reached back into the annals of TV history and borrowed > Bewitched's "Two Darren" solution to come up with Roseanne's Two > Beckys. Joss had so much fun with that, that he borrowed another > classic TV solution to resolve the problem with MT's inability to > commit time to the show. This time he borrowed the "Disappearing > Chuck" solution from Happy Days to simply pretend that Dawn had never > been a part of the show at all. > > Joss, being Joss, went all out with Disappearing Dawn. Not only were > all mentions of Dawn kept from new shows, but also all evidence of > Dawn was removed from episodes already filmed. For seasons 2 and 3, > the editing was relatively easy. Only a few seconds needed to be > snipped here and there, and it is these edited episodes that appear in > syndication and reruns. Careful noting of the running times will show > that up to 2 full minutes are missing from these shows. In a couple of > instances, the editing was not complete and bits of Dawn - usually > views from the back - can still be seen. ATBvS readers take great > delight in "Spotting Dawn" and many debates have raged as to whether a > generic long-haired brunette head-back is Dawn or not. Perhaps the > most uncontroversial Dawn Spotting is during the big fight scene in > Graduation Day 2. > > Unfortunately, the season 1 episodes were more problematic. Dawn's > role was too significant in many episodes to be edited around. These > episodes were simply dropped when the show was rerun and put in > syndication. Only 12 season 1 episodes are shown in syndication, while > every other season has 22. The 10 Dawn-centric episodes that were > dropped are known as the Lost Episodes. As crazy as it seems, this > ruse has been mostly successful. Apparently, so few people were > watching the show from the start that almost all memories come not > from the original airings, but from syndication. > > The ironic thing is that MT's film career did not take off as planned, > and she ended up looking for work at the exact time the Buffy > producers were looking for young blood to pump up the show's teen > demographics. No one is quite sure why Joss decided to reintroduce > Dawn as a "new" character instead of just having her start appearing > in episodes again. Some think that once Dawn had been disappeared, > Joss was unwilling to admit the gag and had to go along with the > Dawn=Key story. A better explanation is the Joss thought the Dawn=Key > plot would make for good storytelling and decided to go with it > despite possible inconsistencies. The BtVS creative staff has always > maintained that they aim for good stories first and worry about > consistency later, so it seems fitting that they would try such a > stunt. > > That's about it. One final plea: If anyone happened to be taping the > show from the original season 1 airdates and has VHS tape of a Lost > Episodes, please post the details here on ATBvS. Though many rumors > exist as to what was in those episodes, I am not aware of *any* hard > evidence of their plots, or even that they even existed. That was beautiful. Someone has to put a website or three together.

2003-01-06 22:29:02+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Dreggs <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap>)


"salmoneous" <salmoneous@aol.com> wrote in message news:54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com... > There have been several recent questions about the S1 "Lost Episodes." > Since I'm not aware of any FAQ on the subject, I put together what I > recall from previous ATBvS discussion. Did I miss anything? > > Buffy The Vampire Slayer - The Lost Season 1 Episodes > > Season 5 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer introduced the supposedly new > character of Dawn, Buffy's never before seen sister. However, several > long time viewers posted to the usenet forum alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer > that Dawn was not new. They swore they had seen her before. Either the > fictional monks of the Buffyverse had somehow put memories into real > world televsion viewers, or something else was going on. A little > investigation from AVBvS readers who worked in the industry quickly > turned up the explanation - one the fortunately didn't involve > fictional characters affection the real world. > > Michelle Trachtenburg, the actress who plays Dawn, had in fact been a > member of the BtVS cast from the beginning. She was prominently > featured in many first season episodes. However, her appearances > tapered off as her film career blossomed. Her second season > appearances typically involved only a few lines or a place at the > Summers' dinner table. By season three, she was left out of many > episodes altogether. It is believed that she didn't appear at all in > any season four episodes. > > Buffy's creator, Joss Whedon, is nothing if not a student of classic > television. Previously, while working on Roseanne's television show, > he faced the problem of how to deal with an actress leaving the show. > Joss reached back into the annals of TV history and borrowed > Bewitched's "Two Darren" solution to come up with Roseanne's Two > Beckys. Joss had so much fun with that, that he borrowed another > classic TV solution to resolve the problem with MT's inability to > commit time to the show. This time he borrowed the "Disappearing > Chuck" solution from Happy Days to simply pretend that Dawn had never > been a part of the show at all. > > Joss, being Joss, went all out with Disappearing Dawn. Not only were > all mentions of Dawn kept from new shows, but also all evidence of > Dawn was removed from episodes already filmed. For seasons 2 and 3, > the editing was relatively easy. Only a few seconds needed to be > snipped here and there, and it is these edited episodes that appear in > syndication and reruns. Careful noting of the running times will show > that up to 2 full minutes are missing from these shows. In a couple of > instances, the editing was not complete and bits of Dawn - usually > views from the back - can still be seen. ATBvS readers take great > delight in "Spotting Dawn" and many debates have raged as to whether a > generic long-haired brunette head-back is Dawn or not. Perhaps the > most uncontroversial Dawn Spotting is during the big fight scene in > Graduation Day 2. > > Unfortunately, the season 1 episodes were more problematic. Dawn's > role was too significant in many episodes to be edited around. These > episodes were simply dropped when the show was rerun and put in > syndication. Only 12 season 1 episodes are shown in syndication, while > every other season has 22. The 10 Dawn-centric episodes that were > dropped are known as the Lost Episodes. As crazy as it seems, this > ruse has been mostly successful. Apparently, so few people were > watching the show from the start that almost all memories come not > from the original airings, but from syndication. > > The ironic thing is that MT's film career did not take off as planned, > and she ended up looking for work at the exact time the Buffy > producers were looking for young blood to pump up the show's teen > demographics. No one is quite sure why Joss decided to reintroduce > Dawn as a "new" character instead of just having her start appearing > in episodes again. Some think that once Dawn had been disappeared, > Joss was unwilling to admit the gag and had to go along with the > Dawn=Key story. A better explanation is the Joss thought the Dawn=Key > plot would make for good storytelling and decided to go with it > despite possible inconsistencies. The BtVS creative staff has always > maintained that they aim for good stories first and worry about > consistency later, so it seems fitting that they would try such a > stunt. > > That's about it. One final plea: If anyone happened to be taping the > show from the original season 1 airdates and has VHS tape of a Lost > Episodes, please post the details here on ATBvS. Though many rumors > exist as to what was in those episodes, I am not aware of *any* hard > evidence of their plots, or even that they even existed. That was beautiful. Someone has to put a website or three together.

2003-01-06 23:18:58-08:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <J%rS9.220834$F2h1.76095@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "HeKS" <heks_@hotmail.com> wrote: > If there were 10 Lost Episodes one would think they would have been > released on DVD even if they were kept out of syndication. But then, why would > they even have shot 22 episodes when they knew they only had the possibility > of airing 12? > > Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person > hanging around this board. Oh, for god's sake... it was a joke! Have you all had your senses of humor forcibly removed?

2003-01-06 23:18:58-08:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (BTR1701 <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com>)


In article <J%rS9.220834$F2h1.76095@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "HeKS" <heks_@hotmail.com> wrote: > If there were 10 Lost Episodes one would think they would have been > released on DVD even if they were kept out of syndication. But then, why would > they even have shot 22 episodes when they knew they only had the possibility > of airing 12? > > Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person > hanging around this board. Oh, for god's sake... it was a joke! Have you all had your senses of humor forcibly removed?

2003-01-06 23:29:58+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (sillyman@famous.com)


I haven't seen any of the lost episodes. I'd sure like to. I read a short description of the flying monkey episode (don't know the title) that sounded interesting. Apparently Buffy comes swinging down from the gym ceiling on a rope to rescue Cordelia while a 9 year old Dawn screams "Get out get out" in the background. I'm curious how they explain the preteen presence at the high school, and would really like to see how the stuntwork has evolved between now and then.

2003-01-06 23:29:58+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (sillyman@famous.com)


I haven't seen any of the lost episodes. I'd sure like to. I read a short description of the flying monkey episode (don't know the title) that sounded interesting. Apparently Buffy comes swinging down from the gym ceiling on a rope to rescue Cordelia while a 9 year old Dawn screams "Get out get out" in the background. I'm curious how they explain the preteen presence at the high school, and would really like to see how the stuntwork has evolved between now and then.

2003-01-07 00:21:06+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Jeremy <ragnar_danneskold@yahoo.com>)


I don't get it...

2003-01-07 00:21:06+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Jeremy <ragnar_danneskold@yahoo.com>)


I don't get it...

2003-01-07 00:49:10+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (- w - FreeLoki <freeloki@nospam.hotmail.com>)


"salmoneous" <salmoneous@aol.com> wrote in message news:54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com... <snip fanboy ramblings> Well, this is certainly interesting. Not trying to knock you, however, this is just some retarded fanboy rumor that's been generated to see who will believe it. The first season of Buffy only has 12 episodes because it was a mid-season replacement, not because they "cut" 24 episodes. Joss isn't an idiot when it comes to these things; he would have mentioned something about the "missing" 12 episodes before hand. That's just not how it goes, so my apologies for ruining any hopes of these "lost episodes", but, quite frankly, it's bullshit.

2003-01-07 00:49:10+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (- w - FreeLoki <freeloki@nospam.hotmail.com>)


"salmoneous" <salmoneous@aol.com> wrote in message news:54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com... <snip fanboy ramblings> Well, this is certainly interesting. Not trying to knock you, however, this is just some retarded fanboy rumor that's been generated to see who will believe it. The first season of Buffy only has 12 episodes because it was a mid-season replacement, not because they "cut" 24 episodes. Joss isn't an idiot when it comes to these things; he would have mentioned something about the "missing" 12 episodes before hand. That's just not how it goes, so my apologies for ruining any hopes of these "lost episodes", but, quite frankly, it's bullshit.

2003-01-07 00:59:09+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Jeremy <ragnar_danneskold@yahoo.com>)


yeah, well - I still don't get it... <sillyman@famous.com> wrote in message news:3e1a0fe0.9095045@news.telus.net... > > > I haven't seen any of the lost episodes. I'd sure like to. I read a > short description of the flying monkey episode (don't know the title) > that sounded interesting. Apparently Buffy comes swinging down from > the gym ceiling on a rope to rescue Cordelia while a 9 year old Dawn > screams "Get out get out" in the background. I'm curious how they > explain the preteen presence at the high school, and would really like > to see how the stuntwork has evolved between now and then.

2003-01-07 00:59:09+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Jeremy <ragnar_danneskold@yahoo.com>)


yeah, well - I still don't get it... <sillyman@famous.com> wrote in message news:3e1a0fe0.9095045@news.telus.net... > > > I haven't seen any of the lost episodes. I'd sure like to. I read a > short description of the flying monkey episode (don't know the title) > that sounded interesting. Apparently Buffy comes swinging down from > the gym ceiling on a rope to rescue Cordelia while a 9 year old Dawn > screams "Get out get out" in the background. I'm curious how they > explain the preteen presence at the high school, and would really like > to see how the stuntwork has evolved between now and then.

2003-01-07 01:12:24-08:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (wallyrosenberg@hotmail.com)


"Jeremy" <ragnar_danneskold@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<xDpS9.55015$4j5.7850795@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>... > yeah, well - I still don't get it... > Maybe I'm leaping to conclusions here, but something tells me Jeremy doesn't get it.

2003-01-07 01:12:24-08:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (wallyrosenberg@hotmail.com)


"Jeremy" <ragnar_danneskold@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<xDpS9.55015$4j5.7850795@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>... > yeah, well - I still don't get it... > Maybe I'm leaping to conclusions here, but something tells me Jeremy doesn't get it.

2003-01-07 01:32:33+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>)


- w - FreeLoki wrote: > "salmoneous" <salmoneous@aol.com> wrote in message > news:54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com... > > <snip fanboy ramblings> > > Well, this is certainly interesting. Not trying to knock you, however, this > is just some retarded fanboy rumor that's been generated to see who will > believe it. The first season of Buffy only has 12 episodes because it was a > mid-season replacement, not because they "cut" 24 episodes. > > Joss isn't an idiot when it comes to these things; he would have mentioned > something about the "missing" 12 episodes before hand. That's just not how > it goes, so my apologies for ruining any hopes of these "lost episodes", > but, quite frankly, it's bullshit. > > Now see, that's what's wrong with the net. If I were in front of you when you said this, I could read your face/tone of voice and know if you were trying on some deadpan humour, like the originator of this thread did to such good effect. With dry words on a screen, I have to go with my first impression, erroneous though it might be, that subtle humour and imagination are wasted on you. Jane -- My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516 and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html

2003-01-07 01:32:33+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Jane Davitt <jdavitt01@rogers.com>)


- w - FreeLoki wrote: > "salmoneous" <salmoneous@aol.com> wrote in message > news:54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com... > > <snip fanboy ramblings> > > Well, this is certainly interesting. Not trying to knock you, however, this > is just some retarded fanboy rumor that's been generated to see who will > believe it. The first season of Buffy only has 12 episodes because it was a > mid-season replacement, not because they "cut" 24 episodes. > > Joss isn't an idiot when it comes to these things; he would have mentioned > something about the "missing" 12 episodes before hand. That's just not how > it goes, so my apologies for ruining any hopes of these "lost episodes", > but, quite frankly, it's bullshit. > > Now see, that's what's wrong with the net. If I were in front of you when you said this, I could read your face/tone of voice and know if you were trying on some deadpan humour, like the originator of this thread did to such good effect. With dry words on a screen, I have to go with my first impression, erroneous though it might be, that subtle humour and imagination are wasted on you. Jane -- My Buffy the Vampire Slayer fiction is archived at http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=231516 and http://dotcreative.envy.nu/archive/al.html

2003-01-07 02:54:29+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (sillyman@famous.com)


Don't keep me in suspense! Was I serious or wasn't I?!? >Whatever. I just said it was lunacy. I actually couldn't tell if the >author was serious though, until the part about the flying monkeys and >Dawn screaming "get out get out get out!!". Those six words have >ruined poor dawn to so many people!! It's lunacy!

2003-01-07 02:54:29+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (sillyman@famous.com)


Don't keep me in suspense! Was I serious or wasn't I?!? >Whatever. I just said it was lunacy. I actually couldn't tell if the >author was serious though, until the part about the flying monkeys and >Dawn screaming "get out get out get out!!". Those six words have >ruined poor dawn to so many people!! It's lunacy!

2003-01-07 03:41:29+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (HeKS <heks_@hotmail.com>)


"- w - FreeLoki" <freeloki@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:aupS9.21187$GF.10292164@twister.columbus.rr.com... > "salmoneous" <salmoneous@aol.com> wrote in message > news:54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com... > > <snip fanboy ramblings> > > Well, this is certainly interesting. Not trying to knock you, however, this > is just some retarded fanboy rumor that's been generated to see who will > believe it. The first season of Buffy only has 12 episodes because it was a > mid-season replacement, not because they "cut" 24 episodes. > > Joss isn't an idiot when it comes to these things; he would have mentioned > something about the "missing" 12 episodes before hand. That's just not how > it goes, so my apologies for ruining any hopes of these "lost episodes", > but, quite frankly, it's bullshit. > > Finally some reasonableness. I've been watching this show since half way through the first season and since then I have not missed a single original airing. There was no Dawn through seasons 1-4. If she ever appeared in any episodes for any amount of time it was not as her current character. But considering I've seen ever ep at least 5 times I'm pretty sure she was never in any episodes period. If in fact she was simply re-appearing then don't you think all the people who have been watching the show since the beginning (or damn near it) like myself would have jumped on and said, "hey, what the hell are they talking about? Dawn has been around the whole time" If there were 10 Lost Episodes one would think they would have been released on DVD even if they were kept out of syndication. But then, why would they even have shot 22 episodes when they knew they only had the possibility of airing 12? Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person hanging around this board. HeKS

2003-01-07 03:41:29+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (HeKS <heks_@hotmail.com>)


"- w - FreeLoki" <freeloki@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:aupS9.21187$GF.10292164@twister.columbus.rr.com... > "salmoneous" <salmoneous@aol.com> wrote in message > news:54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com... > > <snip fanboy ramblings> > > Well, this is certainly interesting. Not trying to knock you, however, this > is just some retarded fanboy rumor that's been generated to see who will > believe it. The first season of Buffy only has 12 episodes because it was a > mid-season replacement, not because they "cut" 24 episodes. > > Joss isn't an idiot when it comes to these things; he would have mentioned > something about the "missing" 12 episodes before hand. That's just not how > it goes, so my apologies for ruining any hopes of these "lost episodes", > but, quite frankly, it's bullshit. > > Finally some reasonableness. I've been watching this show since half way through the first season and since then I have not missed a single original airing. There was no Dawn through seasons 1-4. If she ever appeared in any episodes for any amount of time it was not as her current character. But considering I've seen ever ep at least 5 times I'm pretty sure she was never in any episodes period. If in fact she was simply re-appearing then don't you think all the people who have been watching the show since the beginning (or damn near it) like myself would have jumped on and said, "hey, what the hell are they talking about? Dawn has been around the whole time" If there were 10 Lost Episodes one would think they would have been released on DVD even if they were kept out of syndication. But then, why would they even have shot 22 episodes when they knew they only had the possibility of airing 12? Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person hanging around this board. HeKS

2003-01-07 04:12:21+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Chris Schumacher <kensu_@hotmail.com>)


-snip- That's not nice. :-) You were a newbie once too, you know. -==Kensu==-

2003-01-07 04:12:21+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Chris Schumacher <kensu_@hotmail.com>)


-snip- That's not nice. :-) You were a newbie once too, you know. -==Kensu==-

2003-01-07 07:44:14-08:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


salmoneous@aol.com (salmoneous) wrote in message news:<54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com>... > There have been several recent questions about the S1 "Lost Episodes." > Since I'm not aware of any FAQ on the subject, I put together what I > recall from previous ATBvS discussion. Did I miss anything? > > Buffy The Vampire Slayer - The Lost Season 1 Episodes <snip of pretty cool post> You're a very funny fish! Smaug69(A sometimes funny, yet sometimes sad, dragon)

2003-01-07 07:44:14-08:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


salmoneous@aol.com (salmoneous) wrote in message news:<54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com>... > There have been several recent questions about the S1 "Lost Episodes." > Since I'm not aware of any FAQ on the subject, I put together what I > recall from previous ATBvS discussion. Did I miss anything? > > Buffy The Vampire Slayer - The Lost Season 1 Episodes <snip of pretty cool post> You're a very funny fish! Smaug69(A sometimes funny, yet sometimes sad, dragon)

2003-01-07 09:29:39-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net>)


Dreggs wrote: > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:BTR1702-51E424.23185806012003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... >> In article >> <J%rS9.220834$F2h1.76095@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, >> "HeKS" <heks_@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> If there were 10 Lost Episodes one would think they would have been >>> released on DVD even if they were kept out of syndication. But >>> then, why would they even have shot 22 episodes when they knew they >>> only had the possibility of airing 12? >>> >>> Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person >>> hanging around this board. >> >> Oh, for god's sake... it was a joke! Have you all had your senses of >> humor forcibly removed? > > Personally, I haven't laughed so much in a long time. Thank you all. The worst part is I can't decide which is funnier, those that don't get it, or the lost episodes themselves. Jul

2003-01-07 09:29:39-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Juleen <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net>)


Dreggs wrote: > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:BTR1702-51E424.23185806012003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... >> In article >> <J%rS9.220834$F2h1.76095@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, >> "HeKS" <heks_@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> If there were 10 Lost Episodes one would think they would have been >>> released on DVD even if they were kept out of syndication. But >>> then, why would they even have shot 22 episodes when they knew they >>> only had the possibility of airing 12? >>> >>> Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person >>> hanging around this board. >> >> Oh, for god's sake... it was a joke! Have you all had your senses of >> humor forcibly removed? > > Personally, I haven't laughed so much in a long time. Thank you all. The worst part is I can't decide which is funnier, those that don't get it, or the lost episodes themselves. Jul

2003-01-07 09:49:16-05:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (DarkMagic <slnospambilan@comcast.net>)


"Jane Davitt" <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote in message news:3E1A2E33.6030806@rogers.com... > - w - FreeLoki wrote: > > "salmoneous" <salmoneous@aol.com> wrote in message > > news:54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com... > > > > <snip fanboy ramblings> > > > > Well, this is certainly interesting. Not trying to knock you, however, this > > is just some retarded fanboy rumor that's been generated to see who will > > believe it. The first season of Buffy only has 12 episodes because it was a > > mid-season replacement, not because they "cut" 24 episodes. It's a joke. Ha, ha. Joke. It isn't meant to be taken seriously, at all, ever, in any sense. And, I think, it's actually pretty funny. Especially the part about how Whedon was so enamored with "Bewitched's" two Darrens and the mysterious disappearance of Chuck Cunningham that he couldn't resist trying out something similar on Buffy. > > -- Shannon If loving Buffy is wrong, I don't want to be right.

2003-01-07 09:49:16-05:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (DarkMagic <slnospambilan@comcast.net>)


"Jane Davitt" <jdavitt01@rogers.com> wrote in message news:3E1A2E33.6030806@rogers.com... > - w - FreeLoki wrote: > > "salmoneous" <salmoneous@aol.com> wrote in message > > news:54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com... > > > > <snip fanboy ramblings> > > > > Well, this is certainly interesting. Not trying to knock you, however, this > > is just some retarded fanboy rumor that's been generated to see who will > > believe it. The first season of Buffy only has 12 episodes because it was a > > mid-season replacement, not because they "cut" 24 episodes. It's a joke. Ha, ha. Joke. It isn't meant to be taken seriously, at all, ever, in any sense. And, I think, it's actually pretty funny. Especially the part about how Whedon was so enamored with "Bewitched's" two Darrens and the mysterious disappearance of Chuck Cunningham that he couldn't resist trying out something similar on Buffy. > > -- Shannon If loving Buffy is wrong, I don't want to be right.

2003-01-07 13:32:34-05:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Tom Breton <tehom@panix.com>)


sillyman@famous.com writes: > Don't keep me in suspense! Was I serious or wasn't I?!? > > >Whatever. I just said it was lunacy. I actually couldn't tell if the > >author was serious though, until the part about the flying monkeys and > >Dawn screaming "get out get out get out!!". Those six words have > >ruined poor dawn to so many people!! It's lunacy! You're always the last one to know. It's what you get for top-posting. }:) -- Tom Breton at panix.com, username tehom. http://www.panix.com/~tehom

2003-01-07 13:32:34-05:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Tom Breton <tehom@panix.com>)


sillyman@famous.com writes: > Don't keep me in suspense! Was I serious or wasn't I?!? > > >Whatever. I just said it was lunacy. I actually couldn't tell if the > >author was serious though, until the part about the flying monkeys and > >Dawn screaming "get out get out get out!!". Those six words have > >ruined poor dawn to so many people!! It's lunacy! You're always the last one to know. It's what you get for top-posting. }:) -- Tom Breton at panix.com, username tehom. http://www.panix.com/~tehom

2003-01-07 13:46:39-08:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


"Dreggs" <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap> wrote in message news:<liGS9.1450$db.1198@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>... > "Smaug69" <smaug86@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:5fe774aa.0301070744.5f883b51@posting.google.com... > > salmoneous@aol.com (salmoneous) wrote in message > news:<54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com>... > > > There have been several recent questions about the S1 "Lost Episodes." > > > Since I'm not aware of any FAQ on the subject, I put together what I > > > recall from previous ATBvS discussion. Did I miss anything? > > > > > > Buffy The Vampire Slayer - The Lost Season 1 Episodes > > > > <snip of pretty cool post> > > > > You're a very funny fish! > > > > Smaug69(A sometimes funny, yet sometimes sad, dragon) > > Must be a very big and sturdy keyboard (or do you use voice recognition? > Dragon NaturallySpeaking perhaps?) Actually, I just have one of my many slaves push all the buttons. I can't be bothered while resting on my pile 'o treasure. Smaug69(Now where's that mead I ordered...)

2003-01-07 13:46:39-08:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (smaug86@yahoo.com)


"Dreggs" <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap> wrote in message news:<liGS9.1450$db.1198@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>... > "Smaug69" <smaug86@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:5fe774aa.0301070744.5f883b51@posting.google.com... > > salmoneous@aol.com (salmoneous) wrote in message > news:<54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com>... > > > There have been several recent questions about the S1 "Lost Episodes." > > > Since I'm not aware of any FAQ on the subject, I put together what I > > > recall from previous ATBvS discussion. Did I miss anything? > > > > > > Buffy The Vampire Slayer - The Lost Season 1 Episodes > > > > <snip of pretty cool post> > > > > You're a very funny fish! > > > > Smaug69(A sometimes funny, yet sometimes sad, dragon) > > Must be a very big and sturdy keyboard (or do you use voice recognition? > Dragon NaturallySpeaking perhaps?) Actually, I just have one of my many slaves push all the buttons. I can't be bothered while resting on my pile 'o treasure. Smaug69(Now where's that mead I ordered...)

2003-01-07 13:46:41-05:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Tom Breton <tehom@panix.com>)


"HeKS" <heks_@hotmail.com> writes: > > Finally some reasonableness. I've been watching this show since half way > through the first season and since then I have not missed a single original > airing. That you know of. > There was no Dawn through seasons 1-4. If she ever appeared in any > episodes for any amount of time it was not as her current > character. Well, there's a rumor that she also appeared as "Harriet" around that time. [...] > Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person hanging > around this board. You say that like they're mutually exclusive! -- Tom Breton at panix.com, username tehom. http://www.panix.com/~tehom

2003-01-07 13:46:41-05:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Tom Breton <tehom@panix.com>)


"HeKS" <heks_@hotmail.com> writes: > > Finally some reasonableness. I've been watching this show since half way > through the first season and since then I have not missed a single original > airing. That you know of. > There was no Dawn through seasons 1-4. If she ever appeared in any > episodes for any amount of time it was not as her current > character. Well, there's a rumor that she also appeared as "Harriet" around that time. [...] > Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person hanging > around this board. You say that like they're mutually exclusive! -- Tom Breton at panix.com, username tehom. http://www.panix.com/~tehom

2003-01-07 13:48:06+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Dreggs <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-51E424.23185806012003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article > <J%rS9.220834$F2h1.76095@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "HeKS" > <heks_@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > If there were 10 Lost Episodes one would think they would have been > > released on DVD even if they were kept out of syndication. But then, why would > > they even have shot 22 episodes when they knew they only had the possibility > > of airing 12? > > > > Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person > > hanging around this board. > > Oh, for god's sake... it was a joke! Have you all had your senses of > humor forcibly removed? Personally, I haven't laughed so much in a long time. Thank you all.

2003-01-07 13:48:06+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Dreggs <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap>)


"BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:BTR1702-51E424.23185806012003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > In article > <J%rS9.220834$F2h1.76095@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "HeKS" > <heks_@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > If there were 10 Lost Episodes one would think they would have been > > released on DVD even if they were kept out of syndication. But then, why would > > they even have shot 22 episodes when they knew they only had the possibility > > of airing 12? > > > > Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person > > hanging around this board. > > Oh, for god's sake... it was a joke! Have you all had your senses of > humor forcibly removed? Personally, I haven't laughed so much in a long time. Thank you all.

2003-01-07 13:49:37+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Dreggs <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap>)


"Wally Rosenberg" <wallyrosenberg@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:a6dd0bff.0301070112.6d07cd48@posting.google.com... > "Jeremy" <ragnar_danneskold@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<xDpS9.55015$4j5.7850795@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>... > > yeah, well - I still don't get it... > > > > Maybe I'm leaping to conclusions here, but something tells me Jeremy doesn't get it. You took tiny steps and there conclusions were....

2003-01-07 13:49:37+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Dreggs <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap>)


"Wally Rosenberg" <wallyrosenberg@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:a6dd0bff.0301070112.6d07cd48@posting.google.com... > "Jeremy" <ragnar_danneskold@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<xDpS9.55015$4j5.7850795@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>... > > yeah, well - I still don't get it... > > > > Maybe I'm leaping to conclusions here, but something tells me Jeremy doesn't get it. You took tiny steps and there conclusions were....

2003-01-07 14:30:19-08:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (wallyrosenberg@hotmail.com)


"Dreggs" <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap> wrote in message news:<RVAS9.15083$xb.11737@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>... > "Wally Rosenberg" <wallyrosenberg@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:a6dd0bff.0301070112.6d07cd48@posting.google.com... > > "Jeremy" <ragnar_danneskold@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:<xDpS9.55015$4j5.7850795@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>... > > > yeah, well - I still don't get it... > > > > > > > Maybe I'm leaping to conclusions here, but something tells me Jeremy > doesn't get it. > > You took tiny steps and there conclusions were.... I'm leaping to this conclusion. It's not lunchtime, I don't even care.

2003-01-07 14:30:19-08:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (wallyrosenberg@hotmail.com)


"Dreggs" <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap> wrote in message news:<RVAS9.15083$xb.11737@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>... > "Wally Rosenberg" <wallyrosenberg@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:a6dd0bff.0301070112.6d07cd48@posting.google.com... > > "Jeremy" <ragnar_danneskold@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:<xDpS9.55015$4j5.7850795@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>... > > > yeah, well - I still don't get it... > > > > > > > Maybe I'm leaping to conclusions here, but something tells me Jeremy > doesn't get it. > > You took tiny steps and there conclusions were.... I'm leaping to this conclusion. It's not lunchtime, I don't even care.

2003-01-07 19:55:34+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Dreggs <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap>)


"Juleen" <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote in message news:5hCS9.6479$Pm2.380189@feed2.centurytel.net... > Dreggs wrote: > > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:BTR1702-51E424.23185806012003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > >> In article > >> <J%rS9.220834$F2h1.76095@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, > >> "HeKS" <heks_@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> If there were 10 Lost Episodes one would think they would have been > >>> released on DVD even if they were kept out of syndication. But > >>> then, why would they even have shot 22 episodes when they knew they > >>> only had the possibility of airing 12? > >>> > >>> Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person > >>> hanging around this board. > >> > >> Oh, for god's sake... it was a joke! Have you all had your senses of > >> humor forcibly removed? > > > > Personally, I haven't laughed so much in a long time. Thank you all. > > The worst part is I can't decide which is funnier, those that don't get it, > or the lost episodes themselves. > Jul Exactly, it was a joke on top of joke, which made me laugh more, flashing back to the original laughter and having this sprinkle on top.

2003-01-07 19:55:34+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Dreggs <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap>)


"Juleen" <REMOVEsunryse@centurytel.net> wrote in message news:5hCS9.6479$Pm2.380189@feed2.centurytel.net... > Dreggs wrote: > > "BTR1701" <BTR1702@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:BTR1702-51E424.23185806012003@nntp.ix.netcom.com... > >> In article > >> <J%rS9.220834$F2h1.76095@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, > >> "HeKS" <heks_@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> If there were 10 Lost Episodes one would think they would have been > >>> released on DVD even if they were kept out of syndication. But > >>> then, why would they even have shot 22 episodes when they knew they > >>> only had the possibility of airing 12? > >>> > >>> Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person > >>> hanging around this board. > >> > >> Oh, for god's sake... it was a joke! Have you all had your senses of > >> humor forcibly removed? > > > > Personally, I haven't laughed so much in a long time. Thank you all. > > The worst part is I can't decide which is funnier, those that don't get it, > or the lost episodes themselves. > Jul Exactly, it was a joke on top of joke, which made me laugh more, flashing back to the original laughter and having this sprinkle on top.

2003-01-07 19:57:05+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Dreggs <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap>)


"Smaug69" <smaug86@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:5fe774aa.0301070744.5f883b51@posting.google.com... > salmoneous@aol.com (salmoneous) wrote in message news:<54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com>... > > There have been several recent questions about the S1 "Lost Episodes." > > Since I'm not aware of any FAQ on the subject, I put together what I > > recall from previous ATBvS discussion. Did I miss anything? > > > > Buffy The Vampire Slayer - The Lost Season 1 Episodes > > <snip of pretty cool post> > > You're a very funny fish! > > Smaug69(A sometimes funny, yet sometimes sad, dragon) Must be a very big and sturdy keyboard (or do you use voice recognition? Dragon NaturallySpeaking perhaps?) Garth

2003-01-07 19:57:05+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Dreggs <fakeaddress@Iwantnospamnorpersonalreplies.crap>)


"Smaug69" <smaug86@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:5fe774aa.0301070744.5f883b51@posting.google.com... > salmoneous@aol.com (salmoneous) wrote in message news:<54daff87.0301061421.1e5e0668@posting.google.com>... > > There have been several recent questions about the S1 "Lost Episodes." > > Since I'm not aware of any FAQ on the subject, I put together what I > > recall from previous ATBvS discussion. Did I miss anything? > > > > Buffy The Vampire Slayer - The Lost Season 1 Episodes > > <snip of pretty cool post> > > You're a very funny fish! > > Smaug69(A sometimes funny, yet sometimes sad, dragon) Must be a very big and sturdy keyboard (or do you use voice recognition? Dragon NaturallySpeaking perhaps?) Garth

2003-01-07 22:48:02-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-castillo@enteract.com>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: William George Ferguson <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com> wrote in <v9kk1v8js1mc53r7dbrvg304kmv7k9a5ul@4ax.com>: > sillyman@famous.com wrote: > > > >I haven't seen any of the lost episodes. I'd sure like to. I read a > >short description of the flying monkey episode (don't know the title) > >that sounded interesting. > > "Run, Juliet" > It's probably the lost episode with the most complete synopsis > floating around. > > >Apparently Buffy comes swinging down from > >the gym ceiling on a rope to rescue Cordelia while a 9 year old Dawn > >screams "Get out get out" in the background. I'm curious how they > >explain the preteen presence at the high school, and would really like > >to see how the stuntwork has evolved between now and then. It was report card day at Dawn's school but Joyce was tied up at the gallery so Buffy was forced to babysit. This is also why Cordelia and not Buffy was attacked. Both tried out for the role of Juliet but only Buffy was distracted by Dawn making faces at her and flubbed her lines. -- "Welcome to the Hellmouth, where even outerwear isn't safe. -- Xander Harris Roberto Castillo castillo@enteract.com http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-01-07 22:48:02-06:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Zombie Elvis <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-castillo@enteract.com>)


It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: William George Ferguson <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com> wrote in <v9kk1v8js1mc53r7dbrvg304kmv7k9a5ul@4ax.com>: > sillyman@famous.com wrote: > > > >I haven't seen any of the lost episodes. I'd sure like to. I read a > >short description of the flying monkey episode (don't know the title) > >that sounded interesting. > > "Run, Juliet" > It's probably the lost episode with the most complete synopsis > floating around. > > >Apparently Buffy comes swinging down from > >the gym ceiling on a rope to rescue Cordelia while a 9 year old Dawn > >screams "Get out get out" in the background. I'm curious how they > >explain the preteen presence at the high school, and would really like > >to see how the stuntwork has evolved between now and then. It was report card day at Dawn's school but Joyce was tied up at the gallery so Buffy was forced to babysit. This is also why Cordelia and not Buffy was attacked. Both tried out for the role of Juliet but only Buffy was distracted by Dawn making faces at her and flubbed her lines. -- "Welcome to the Hellmouth, where even outerwear isn't safe. -- Xander Harris Roberto Castillo castillo@enteract.com http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-01-08 09:42:22-07:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (William George Ferguson <william.george.ferguson@domail.maricopa.edu>)


On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:11:05 GMT, "Carey" <no*tedjr*spam@rogers.com> wrote: >I don't know what is happening in the rest of the world, but the 1st season >DVD set available in Canada includes the 10 "so-called" lost episodes. > >To answer the main question that seems to be here: > >Yes! Dawn was in episodes 16 - 19 (inclusive). Apparently, she was at a >private school and returned to the family for a visit. I checked and the >school name was given as "The Tuoteg School". Wasn't it the Tuoteg Trinity School? -- "Oh Buffy, you really do need to have every square inch of your ass kicked." - Willow Rosenberg

2003-01-08 09:42:22-07:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (William George Ferguson <william.george.ferguson@domail.maricopa.edu>)


On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:11:05 GMT, "Carey" <no*tedjr*spam@rogers.com> wrote: >I don't know what is happening in the rest of the world, but the 1st season >DVD set available in Canada includes the 10 "so-called" lost episodes. > >To answer the main question that seems to be here: > >Yes! Dawn was in episodes 16 - 19 (inclusive). Apparently, she was at a >private school and returned to the family for a visit. I checked and the >school name was given as "The Tuoteg School". Wasn't it the Tuoteg Trinity School? -- "Oh Buffy, you really do need to have every square inch of your ass kicked." - Willow Rosenberg

2003-01-08 12:11:05+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Carey <no*tedjr*spam@rogers.com>)


I don't know what is happening in the rest of the world, but the 1st season DVD set available in Canada includes the 10 "so-called" lost episodes. To answer the main question that seems to be here: Yes! Dawn was in episodes 16 - 19 (inclusive). Apparently, she was at a private school and returned to the family for a visit. I checked and the school name was given as "The Tuoteg School". "Zombie Elvis" <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-castillo@enteract.com> wrote in message news:07bn1v0bm0bfj3o5p5soq9a4etjtggok1d@4ax.com... > It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs > and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: > William George Ferguson <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com> wrote in > <v9kk1v8js1mc53r7dbrvg304kmv7k9a5ul@4ax.com>: > > > sillyman@famous.com wrote: > > > > > > >I haven't seen any of the lost episodes. I'd sure like to. I read a > > >short description of the flying monkey episode (don't know the title) > > >that sounded interesting. > > > > "Run, Juliet" > > It's probably the lost episode with the most complete synopsis > > floating around. > > > > >Apparently Buffy comes swinging down from > > >the gym ceiling on a rope to rescue Cordelia while a 9 year old Dawn > > >screams "Get out get out" in the background. I'm curious how they > > >explain the preteen presence at the high school, and would really like > > >to see how the stuntwork has evolved between now and then. > > It was report card day at Dawn's school but Joyce was tied up at the > gallery so Buffy was forced to babysit. This is also why Cordelia and > not Buffy was attacked. Both tried out for the role of Juliet but only > Buffy was distracted by Dawn making faces at her and flubbed her > lines. > > > -- > "Welcome to the Hellmouth, where even outerwear isn't > safe. > -- Xander Harris > > Roberto Castillo > castillo@enteract.com > http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-01-08 12:11:05+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Carey <no*tedjr*spam@rogers.com>)


I don't know what is happening in the rest of the world, but the 1st season DVD set available in Canada includes the 10 "so-called" lost episodes. To answer the main question that seems to be here: Yes! Dawn was in episodes 16 - 19 (inclusive). Apparently, she was at a private school and returned to the family for a visit. I checked and the school name was given as "The Tuoteg School". "Zombie Elvis" <DELETE-ME-2-REPLY-castillo@enteract.com> wrote in message news:07bn1v0bm0bfj3o5p5soq9a4etjtggok1d@4ax.com... > It was a time of great turmoil. The strong preyed on the weak, dogs > and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness: > William George Ferguson <wmgfrgsn@newsguy.com> wrote in > <v9kk1v8js1mc53r7dbrvg304kmv7k9a5ul@4ax.com>: > > > sillyman@famous.com wrote: > > > > > > >I haven't seen any of the lost episodes. I'd sure like to. I read a > > >short description of the flying monkey episode (don't know the title) > > >that sounded interesting. > > > > "Run, Juliet" > > It's probably the lost episode with the most complete synopsis > > floating around. > > > > >Apparently Buffy comes swinging down from > > >the gym ceiling on a rope to rescue Cordelia while a 9 year old Dawn > > >screams "Get out get out" in the background. I'm curious how they > > >explain the preteen presence at the high school, and would really like > > >to see how the stuntwork has evolved between now and then. > > It was report card day at Dawn's school but Joyce was tied up at the > gallery so Buffy was forced to babysit. This is also why Cordelia and > not Buffy was attacked. Both tried out for the role of Juliet but only > Buffy was distracted by Dawn making faces at her and flubbed her > lines. > > > -- > "Welcome to the Hellmouth, where even outerwear isn't > safe. > -- Xander Harris > > Roberto Castillo > castillo@enteract.com > http://www.enteract.com/~castillo

2003-01-09 01:22:48+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Carey <no*tedjr*spam@rogers.com>)


"William George Ferguson" <william.george.ferguson@domail.maricopa.edu> wrote in message news:66lo1vko5hik0d3pe91qnjp2j358jmbv36@4ax.com... > On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:11:05 GMT, "Carey" <no*tedjr*spam@rogers.com> > wrote: > > >I don't know what is happening in the rest of the world, but the 1st season > >DVD set available in Canada includes the 10 "so-called" lost episodes. > > > >To answer the main question that seems to be here: > > > >Yes! Dawn was in episodes 16 - 19 (inclusive). Apparently, she was at a > >private school and returned to the family for a visit. I checked and the > >school name was given as "The Tuoteg School". > > Wasn't it the Tuoteg Trinity School? > Might just have been.

2003-01-09 01:22:48+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Carey <no*tedjr*spam@rogers.com>)


"William George Ferguson" <william.george.ferguson@domail.maricopa.edu> wrote in message news:66lo1vko5hik0d3pe91qnjp2j358jmbv36@4ax.com... > On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:11:05 GMT, "Carey" <no*tedjr*spam@rogers.com> > wrote: > > >I don't know what is happening in the rest of the world, but the 1st season > >DVD set available in Canada includes the 10 "so-called" lost episodes. > > > >To answer the main question that seems to be here: > > > >Yes! Dawn was in episodes 16 - 19 (inclusive). Apparently, she was at a > >private school and returned to the family for a visit. I checked and the > >school name was given as "The Tuoteg School". > > Wasn't it the Tuoteg Trinity School? > Might just have been.

2003-01-09 08:00:49+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


"HeKS" <heks_@hotmail.com> wrote in news:J%rS9.220834$F2h1.76095@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com: > But considering I've seen ever ep at least 5 times > I'm pretty sure she was never in any episodes period. Pretty sure? What would it take for you to be absolutely sure? Remember that in the earlier seasons Dawn was only a secondary character - like Andrew, Harmony, Devon, or Jonathan. Nobody disputes that they weren't in small scenes here and there. You just didn't always notice them unless they had a prominent part in a story. Imagine, for example, if Jonathan was suddenly elevated to the title credits for a show how many fans might react - and not realize he had been there since "Inca Mummy Girl". > If in fact she > was simply re-appearing then don't you think all the people who have > been watching the show since the beginning (or damn near it) like > myself would have jumped on and said, "hey, what the hell are they > talking about? Dawn has been around the whole time" Many did. Look through the google archives when "Dracula" aired. The monks spell in Season 5 was so far reaching that it extended beyond the bounds of the TVverse and removed the memories of Dawn from many of the fans who didn't watch every detail of the shows. > If there were 10 Lost Episodes one would think they would have been > released on DVD even if they were kept out of syndication. Actually even the number of lost epsiodes is disputed - I heard that there were 12 lost episodes. Look at the stickers on the first season DVDs proclaiming all 24 episodes of Season 1. Come on - you aren't going to try to claim that the Dawn-lovers are pretending that the Season 1 DVDs had those stickers - are you?? The rumor I heard was there were problems with the rights to the music in those episodes, so Fox didn't have the rights to release them in any form whether or not Dawn was featured in them. > But then, > why would they even have shot 22 episodes when they knew they only had > the possibility of airing 12? Initally the series was planned for a Fall 1996 release. That would explain some of the time paradoxes in the show (the wrong date on the cheerleader tryout banner, why Dawn's birthday was shortly after the family moved to Sunnydale in "The Harvest" and "Blood Ties" but apparently during the summer in other references). > Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person > hanging around this board. well I'm pretty certain I'm crazy - how about you? Philip Chien (for those of you who doubt Dawn was in the earlier seasons check out "Hush" where Dawn's the little girl in Buffy's dreams.)

2003-01-09 08:00:49+00:00 - Re: Season 1 Lost Episodes Explanation - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


"HeKS" <heks_@hotmail.com> wrote in news:J%rS9.220834$F2h1.76095@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com: > But considering I've seen ever ep at least 5 times > I'm pretty sure she was never in any episodes period. Pretty sure? What would it take for you to be absolutely sure? Remember that in the earlier seasons Dawn was only a secondary character - like Andrew, Harmony, Devon, or Jonathan. Nobody disputes that they weren't in small scenes here and there. You just didn't always notice them unless they had a prominent part in a story. Imagine, for example, if Jonathan was suddenly elevated to the title credits for a show how many fans might react - and not realize he had been there since "Inca Mummy Girl". > If in fact she > was simply re-appearing then don't you think all the people who have > been watching the show since the beginning (or damn near it) like > myself would have jumped on and said, "hey, what the hell are they > talking about? Dawn has been around the whole time" Many did. Look through the google archives when "Dracula" aired. The monks spell in Season 5 was so far reaching that it extended beyond the bounds of the TVverse and removed the memories of Dawn from many of the fans who didn't watch every detail of the shows. > If there were 10 Lost Episodes one would think they would have been > released on DVD even if they were kept out of syndication. Actually even the number of lost epsiodes is disputed - I heard that there were 12 lost episodes. Look at the stickers on the first season DVDs proclaiming all 24 episodes of Season 1. Come on - you aren't going to try to claim that the Dawn-lovers are pretending that the Season 1 DVDs had those stickers - are you?? The rumor I heard was there were problems with the rights to the music in those episodes, so Fox didn't have the rights to release them in any form whether or not Dawn was featured in them. > But then, > why would they even have shot 22 episodes when they knew they only had > the possibility of airing 12? Initally the series was planned for a Fall 1996 release. That would explain some of the time paradoxes in the show (the wrong date on the cheerleader tryout banner, why Dawn's birthday was shortly after the family moved to Sunnydale in "The Harvest" and "Blood Ties" but apparently during the summer in other references). > Either everyone knows this is a hoax or there's many a crazy person > hanging around this board. well I'm pretty certain I'm crazy - how about you? Philip Chien (for those of you who doubt Dawn was in the earlier seasons check out "Hush" where Dawn's the little girl in Buffy's dreams.)