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2003-03-26 07:57:21-08:00 - so...let me get this straight - (metrix007@yahoo.com)


spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. thoughts?

2003-03-26 07:57:21-08:00 - so...let me get this straight - (metrix007@yahoo.com)


spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. thoughts?

2003-03-26 15:54:00-05:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (TomTraubertsBlues <silentsaregolden@comcast.net>)


"JoshB" <metrix007@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com... > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > thoughts? Since someone else has responded to your comments, I would just say that you would benefit from using a spellchecker. I realize you may be a non-native, which is why I am making the suggestion. I count 4 spelling errors and a couple grammar errors. There's no shame in making errors, especially in one's second language, but it does help others to reduce them as much as possible. Mike

2003-03-26 15:54:00-05:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (TomTraubertsBlues <silentsaregolden@comcast.net>)


"JoshB" <metrix007@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com... > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > thoughts? Since someone else has responded to your comments, I would just say that you would benefit from using a spellchecker. I realize you may be a non-native, which is why I am making the suggestion. I count 4 spelling errors and a couple grammar errors. There's no shame in making errors, especially in one's second language, but it does help others to reduce them as much as possible. Mike

2003-03-26 16:08:08+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (Empress <shopperspender@hotmailnotspam.com>)


"JoshB" <metrix007@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com... > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > thoughts? Denial ain't just a river... It was easier for vampWilliam to say that it was a demon talking than to admit that his mother resented him in life, and the demon in his mother just un-repressed that. Spike is still in denial about that. We've seen so much evidence that a vampire retains at least part of the host's personality (Harmony's still a ditz, Spike has a poetic streak, Drusilla's crazy like she was right before she was turned by Angelus, Holden remembered Buffy and had a thing for psychoanalysis, Angel tries to correct Buffy when she tells Willow that the vamp has nothing to do with the human's personality, on and on) that it was obvious, to me at least, that part of Spike's century-long repression was the fact that his mom thought he was a bloody awful poet and an annoyance as William. Easier to say "Hey, it's the demon" rather than face the more likely facts. Spike whole Spike-ness is a persona created as a direct opposite of William. Right after he was turned, William was just VampWilliam. Spike was something he carefully cultivated out of his embarrassment and disgust for his weaknesses as a human and fledgling vamp.

2003-03-26 16:08:08+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (Empress <shopperspender@hotmailnotspam.com>)


"JoshB" <metrix007@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com... > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > thoughts? Denial ain't just a river... It was easier for vampWilliam to say that it was a demon talking than to admit that his mother resented him in life, and the demon in his mother just un-repressed that. Spike is still in denial about that. We've seen so much evidence that a vampire retains at least part of the host's personality (Harmony's still a ditz, Spike has a poetic streak, Drusilla's crazy like she was right before she was turned by Angelus, Holden remembered Buffy and had a thing for psychoanalysis, Angel tries to correct Buffy when she tells Willow that the vamp has nothing to do with the human's personality, on and on) that it was obvious, to me at least, that part of Spike's century-long repression was the fact that his mom thought he was a bloody awful poet and an annoyance as William. Easier to say "Hey, it's the demon" rather than face the more likely facts. Spike whole Spike-ness is a persona created as a direct opposite of William. Right after he was turned, William was just VampWilliam. Spike was something he carefully cultivated out of his embarrassment and disgust for his weaknesses as a human and fledgling vamp.

2003-03-26 17:37:28-05:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (David Cheatham <david@creeknet.com>)


In article <tBpga.26279$ja4.1782179@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, aethelrede@worldnet.att.net says... > (Why Don't we know the family name? We know everyone else's) We don't know Angel's, Darla's, or Drusilla's family name either. In fact, about the only vampires we know the family name of are vampires we knew first as people, like Harmony Kendle.

2003-03-26 17:37:28-05:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (David Cheatham <david@creeknet.com>)


In article <tBpga.26279$ja4.1782179@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, aethelrede@worldnet.att.net says... > (Why Don't we know the family name? We know everyone else's) We don't know Angel's, Darla's, or Drusilla's family name either. In fact, about the only vampires we know the family name of are vampires we knew first as people, like Harmony Kendle.

2003-03-26 22:12:41+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (Aethelrede <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net>)


Empress wrote in message ... > >"JoshB" <metrix007@yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com... >> spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let >> loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly >> read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his >> motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. >> >> thoughts? > >Denial ain't just a river... It was easier for vampWilliam to say that it >was a demon talking than to admit that his mother resented him in life, and >the demon in his mother just un-repressed that. Spike is still in denial >about that. > >We've seen so much evidence that a vampire retains at least part of the >host's personality (Harmony's still a ditz, Spike has a poetic streak, >Drusilla's crazy like she was right before she was turned by Angelus, Holden >remembered Buffy and had a thing for psychoanalysis, Angel tries to correct >Buffy when she tells Willow that the vamp has nothing to do with the human's >personality, on and on) that it was obvious, to me at least, that part of >Spike's century-long repression was the fact that his mom thought he was a >bloody awful poet and an annoyance as William. Easier to say "Hey, it's the >demon" rather than face the more likely facts. > >Spike whole Spike-ness is a persona created as a direct opposite of William. >Right after he was turned, William was just VampWilliam. Spike was something >he carefully cultivated out of his embarrassment and disgust for his >weaknesses as a human and fledgling vamp. That has been pretty obvious since we started seeing flashbacks to Spikes past. It's just that LMPTM makes the reason for it totally clear. In my opinion it was being turned that finally allowed William's mother (Why Don't we know the family name? We know everyone else's) to let out her frustration with her life and the contempt she had for William, who seems to have been a real wimp and a mother's boy, with pretensions to being artistic. Before, Victorian propriety stopped her.

2003-03-26 22:12:41+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (Aethelrede <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net>)


Empress wrote in message ... > >"JoshB" <metrix007@yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com... >> spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let >> loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly >> read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his >> motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. >> >> thoughts? > >Denial ain't just a river... It was easier for vampWilliam to say that it >was a demon talking than to admit that his mother resented him in life, and >the demon in his mother just un-repressed that. Spike is still in denial >about that. > >We've seen so much evidence that a vampire retains at least part of the >host's personality (Harmony's still a ditz, Spike has a poetic streak, >Drusilla's crazy like she was right before she was turned by Angelus, Holden >remembered Buffy and had a thing for psychoanalysis, Angel tries to correct >Buffy when she tells Willow that the vamp has nothing to do with the human's >personality, on and on) that it was obvious, to me at least, that part of >Spike's century-long repression was the fact that his mom thought he was a >bloody awful poet and an annoyance as William. Easier to say "Hey, it's the >demon" rather than face the more likely facts. > >Spike whole Spike-ness is a persona created as a direct opposite of William. >Right after he was turned, William was just VampWilliam. Spike was something >he carefully cultivated out of his embarrassment and disgust for his >weaknesses as a human and fledgling vamp. That has been pretty obvious since we started seeing flashbacks to Spikes past. It's just that LMPTM makes the reason for it totally clear. In my opinion it was being turned that finally allowed William's mother (Why Don't we know the family name? We know everyone else's) to let out her frustration with her life and the contempt she had for William, who seems to have been a real wimp and a mother's boy, with pretensions to being artistic. Before, Victorian propriety stopped her.

2003-03-27 03:11:30+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (Aethelrede <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net>)


David Cheatham wrote in message ... >In article <tBpga.26279$ja4.1782179@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, >aethelrede@worldnet.att.net says... >> (Why Don't we know the family name? We know everyone else's) > >We don't know Angel's, Darla's, or Drusilla's family name either. > >In fact, about the only vampires we know the family name of are vampires we knew first as >people, like Harmony Kendle. And the guy in CWDP, and the time when Joyce recognised Mr whoever from the bank... And didn't we get a name for the rather lame vampire who got stuck on the way up?

2003-03-27 03:11:30+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (Aethelrede <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net>)


David Cheatham wrote in message ... >In article <tBpga.26279$ja4.1782179@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, >aethelrede@worldnet.att.net says... >> (Why Don't we know the family name? We know everyone else's) > >We don't know Angel's, Darla's, or Drusilla's family name either. > >In fact, about the only vampires we know the family name of are vampires we knew first as >people, like Harmony Kendle. And the guy in CWDP, and the time when Joyce recognised Mr whoever from the bank... And didn't we get a name for the rather lame vampire who got stuck on the way up?

2003-03-27 05:30:15+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (nixfamily2409@aol.com)


> And the guy in CWDP, and the time when Joyce recognised Mr whoever from >the bank... Mr. Sanderson from the bank... Nix

2003-03-27 05:30:15+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (nixfamily2409@aol.com)


> And the guy in CWDP, and the time when Joyce recognised Mr whoever from >the bank... Mr. Sanderson from the bank... Nix

2003-03-27 11:46:09-05:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Aethelrede" <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:CZtga.51919$S%3.1866369@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... > > David Cheatham wrote in message ... > >In article <tBpga.26279$ja4.1782179@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > >aethelrede@worldnet.att.net says... > >> (Why Don't we know the family name? We know everyone else's) > > > >We don't know Angel's, Darla's, or Drusilla's family name either. > > > >In fact, about the only vampires we know the family name of are vampires we > knew first as > >people, like Harmony Kendle. > > And the guy in CWDP, and the time when Joyce recognised Mr whoever from > the bank... And didn't we get a name for the rather lame vampire who got > stuck on the way up? How can everyone forget Lyle and Tector Gorch? Arnold Kim

2003-03-27 11:46:09-05:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (Arnold Kim <kim5@erols.com>)


"Aethelrede" <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:CZtga.51919$S%3.1866369@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... > > David Cheatham wrote in message ... > >In article <tBpga.26279$ja4.1782179@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > >aethelrede@worldnet.att.net says... > >> (Why Don't we know the family name? We know everyone else's) > > > >We don't know Angel's, Darla's, or Drusilla's family name either. > > > >In fact, about the only vampires we know the family name of are vampires we > knew first as > >people, like Harmony Kendle. > > And the guy in CWDP, and the time when Joyce recognised Mr whoever from > the bank... And didn't we get a name for the rather lame vampire who got > stuck on the way up? How can everyone forget Lyle and Tector Gorch? Arnold Kim

2003-03-27 22:54:51-08:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (metrix007@yahoo.com)


buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.18ed52bda9f1c3ee98989c@news.earthlink.net>... > In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, > metrix007@yahoo.com says... > > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > > > thoughts? > > > --- > He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as > much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said > was accurate. Perhaps, but then if spikes mothers demon was obviously evil, being so nasty to her son, then why was william, still like william after being vamped? yeah, I know he was wanting to do evil, but he still cared about his mum, something which made him seem very human to me.

2003-03-27 22:54:51-08:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (metrix007@yahoo.com)


buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.18ed52bda9f1c3ee98989c@news.earthlink.net>... > In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, > metrix007@yahoo.com says... > > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > > > thoughts? > > > --- > He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as > much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said > was accurate. Perhaps, but then if spikes mothers demon was obviously evil, being so nasty to her son, then why was william, still like william after being vamped? yeah, I know he was wanting to do evil, but he still cared about his mum, something which made him seem very human to me.

2003-03-27 23:15:49+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (Aethelrede <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net>)


Arnold Kim wrote in message ... > >"Aethelrede" <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message >news:CZtga.51919$S%3.1866369@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... >> >> David Cheatham wrote in message ... >> >In article <tBpga.26279$ja4.1782179@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, >> >aethelrede@worldnet.att.net says... >> >> (Why Don't we know the family name? We know everyone else's) >> > >> >We don't know Angel's, Darla's, or Drusilla's family name either. >> > >> >In fact, about the only vampires we know the family name of are vampires >we >> knew first as >> >people, like Harmony Kendle. >> >> And the guy in CWDP, and the time when Joyce recognised Mr whoever >from >> the bank... And didn't we get a name for the rather lame vampire who got >> stuck on the way up? > >How can everyone forget Lyle and Tector Gorch? It was difficult, but I managed. Source of a good Buffy/Giles exchange where he tells her they wiped out a whole Mexican village and Buffy says they sound like bad vampires, and Giles says no, that was before.

2003-03-27 23:15:49+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (Aethelrede <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net>)


Arnold Kim wrote in message ... > >"Aethelrede" <aethelrede@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message >news:CZtga.51919$S%3.1866369@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... >> >> David Cheatham wrote in message ... >> >In article <tBpga.26279$ja4.1782179@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, >> >aethelrede@worldnet.att.net says... >> >> (Why Don't we know the family name? We know everyone else's) >> > >> >We don't know Angel's, Darla's, or Drusilla's family name either. >> > >> >In fact, about the only vampires we know the family name of are vampires >we >> knew first as >> >people, like Harmony Kendle. >> >> And the guy in CWDP, and the time when Joyce recognised Mr whoever >from >> the bank... And didn't we get a name for the rather lame vampire who got >> stuck on the way up? > >How can everyone forget Lyle and Tector Gorch? It was difficult, but I managed. Source of a good Buffy/Giles exchange where he tells her they wiped out a whole Mexican village and Buffy says they sound like bad vampires, and Giles says no, that was before.

2003-03-27 23:25:18+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, metrix007@yahoo.com says... > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > thoughts? > --- He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said was accurate. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-27 23:25:18+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, metrix007@yahoo.com says... > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > thoughts? > --- He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said was accurate. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-28 00:05:19+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <Ifkga.16057$LH3.586506@news1.east.cox.net>, shopperspender@hotmailnotspam.com says... > > "JoshB" <metrix007@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com... > > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > > > thoughts? > > Denial ain't just a river... It was easier for vampWilliam to say that it > was a demon talking than to admit that his mother resented him in life, and > the demon in his mother just un-repressed that. Spike is still in denial > about that. > > We've seen so much evidence that a vampire retains at least part of the > host's personality (Harmony's still a ditz, Spike has a poetic streak, > Drusilla's crazy like she was right before she was turned by Angelus, Holden > remembered Buffy and had a thing for psychoanalysis, Angel tries to correct > Buffy when she tells Willow that the vamp has nothing to do with the human's > personality, on and on) that it was obvious, to me at least, that part of > Spike's century-long repression was the fact that his mom thought he was a > bloody awful poet and an annoyance as William. Easier to say "Hey, it's the > demon" rather than face the more likely facts. > > Spike whole Spike-ness is a persona created as a direct opposite of William. > Right after he was turned, William was just VampWilliam. Spike was something > he carefully cultivated out of his embarrassment and disgust for his > weaknesses as a human and fledgling vamp. > > > --- In the very short moment we got to know Spike's human mum, she did not display any resentment toward him. She was worried that he did not seem to interested in girls other than the Addams woman but that was all. She loved him. What the demon did was take and twist that worry into something ugly. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-28 00:05:19+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <Ifkga.16057$LH3.586506@news1.east.cox.net>, shopperspender@hotmailnotspam.com says... > > "JoshB" <metrix007@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com... > > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > > > thoughts? > > Denial ain't just a river... It was easier for vampWilliam to say that it > was a demon talking than to admit that his mother resented him in life, and > the demon in his mother just un-repressed that. Spike is still in denial > about that. > > We've seen so much evidence that a vampire retains at least part of the > host's personality (Harmony's still a ditz, Spike has a poetic streak, > Drusilla's crazy like she was right before she was turned by Angelus, Holden > remembered Buffy and had a thing for psychoanalysis, Angel tries to correct > Buffy when she tells Willow that the vamp has nothing to do with the human's > personality, on and on) that it was obvious, to me at least, that part of > Spike's century-long repression was the fact that his mom thought he was a > bloody awful poet and an annoyance as William. Easier to say "Hey, it's the > demon" rather than face the more likely facts. > > Spike whole Spike-ness is a persona created as a direct opposite of William. > Right after he was turned, William was just VampWilliam. Spike was something > he carefully cultivated out of his embarrassment and disgust for his > weaknesses as a human and fledgling vamp. > > > --- In the very short moment we got to know Spike's human mum, she did not display any resentment toward him. She was worried that he did not seem to interested in girls other than the Addams woman but that was all. She loved him. What the demon did was take and twist that worry into something ugly. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-28 01:04:10-06:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <c52a4e65.0303272254.63147176@posting.google.com>, metrix007@yahoo.com (JoshB) wrote: > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message > news:<MPG.18ed52bda9f1c3ee98989c@news.earthlink.net>... > > In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, > > metrix007@yahoo.com says... > > > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > > > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > > > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > > > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > > > > > thoughts? > > > > > --- > > He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as > > much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said > > was accurate. > > > Perhaps, but then if spikes mothers demon was obviously evil, being so > nasty to her son, then why was william, still like william after being > vamped? yeah, I know he was wanting to do evil, but he still cared > about his mum, something which made him seem very human to me. Maybe William's love for his mother was pure while hers was tainted with resentment. Of course that implies that Spike was wrong and it wasn't just the demon that hated him but his Mom as well. Well.... he's not the brightest bulb in the bunch so it wouldn't be the first time.

2003-03-28 01:04:10-06:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (Snuggles <postmaster@spamcop.net>)


In article <c52a4e65.0303272254.63147176@posting.google.com>, metrix007@yahoo.com (JoshB) wrote: > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message > news:<MPG.18ed52bda9f1c3ee98989c@news.earthlink.net>... > > In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, > > metrix007@yahoo.com says... > > > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > > > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > > > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > > > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > > > > > thoughts? > > > > > --- > > He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as > > much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said > > was accurate. > > > Perhaps, but then if spikes mothers demon was obviously evil, being so > nasty to her son, then why was william, still like william after being > vamped? yeah, I know he was wanting to do evil, but he still cared > about his mum, something which made him seem very human to me. Maybe William's love for his mother was pure while hers was tainted with resentment. Of course that implies that Spike was wrong and it wasn't just the demon that hated him but his Mom as well. Well.... he's not the brightest bulb in the bunch so it wouldn't be the first time.

2003-03-28 06:52:41-08:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (metrix007@yahoo.com)


buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.18edd70b362f54c69898a9@news.earthlink.net>... > In article <c52a4e65.0303272254.63147176@posting.google.com>, > metrix007@yahoo.com says... > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.18ed52bda9f1c3ee98989c@news.earthlink.net>... > > > In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, > > > metrix007@yahoo.com says... > > > > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > > > > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > > > > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > > > > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > > > > > > > thoughts? > > > > > > > --- > > > He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as > > > much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said > > > was accurate. > > > > > > Perhaps, but then if spikes mothers demon was obviously evil, being so > > nasty to her son, then why was william, still like william after being > > vamped? yeah, I know he was wanting to do evil, but he still cared > > about his mum, something which made him seem very human to me. > > > --- > He wasn't William. Didn't you detect the air of greater confidence > that he had? Didn't you here how he literaly wanted to paint the town > red with Dru and mum by his side? Not the same guy exactly. But yes, > William stayed more like William did than Anne stayed more like Anne. > I think the demon magnified and corrupted any worry that Anne had > about her son and made it much much uglier than it was. I am sure that > she was worried that her son was not striking out and forming a family > of his own. I am sure she dearly wanted to be a grandmother, but that > was a minor thing on her part I believe. The demon however magnified > it to ugly perportions. The demon also put the ugliest spin on the > reason that he stayed behind. Not that he may lack confidence or > competance in life or even that he had an overweening but wholesome > love for mother, but it must had been to get into bed with her. If > that isn't evil I do not know what it is. To twist a son's love for > his mother to such disgusting reasons. Well, This where I get confused. I would go so far to say that vampanne no longer resembled human anne, but vampwilliam still resembled human william. What we have seen with william is that he is willing to do anything to please a loved one, so this could be attributed to him wanting to please dru. Also, angelus obviously had some sort of resentment towards his family, as he went and ate them up. Also of note, if spike/vampwilliam was no longer the same entity, but a demon replaced, why feel hurt by buffies comment saying he was beneath her? > > But why has Spike despite his lacking a soul stayed a "limp > sentimental fool"? There is a precedent to this. Remember that > bookish, mousesy, clerk like vampire that Dru had as a minon to > recover vital parts of The Judge. The Judge later burned him because > he was just to human to tolerate. It seems the more sensitive you are > in life, the more likely it is to carry over partly to your vampire > hood. So you will want to love and take care of dear old mum but to > hell with the rest of humanity. You love books like that "clerk" did > that The Judge burned but you will help destroy the world by > obediently getting the parts together for its doom. Interesting concept, i like it :) Especially interesting, as spike had humanity in him, and angelus had none IIRC sorry for the patheticness of my arguments, but its 2am here, and i i can only access the net now, or not for a few days.

2003-03-28 06:52:41-08:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (metrix007@yahoo.com)


buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.18edd70b362f54c69898a9@news.earthlink.net>... > In article <c52a4e65.0303272254.63147176@posting.google.com>, > metrix007@yahoo.com says... > > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.18ed52bda9f1c3ee98989c@news.earthlink.net>... > > > In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, > > > metrix007@yahoo.com says... > > > > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > > > > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > > > > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > > > > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > > > > > > > thoughts? > > > > > > > --- > > > He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as > > > much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said > > > was accurate. > > > > > > Perhaps, but then if spikes mothers demon was obviously evil, being so > > nasty to her son, then why was william, still like william after being > > vamped? yeah, I know he was wanting to do evil, but he still cared > > about his mum, something which made him seem very human to me. > > > --- > He wasn't William. Didn't you detect the air of greater confidence > that he had? Didn't you here how he literaly wanted to paint the town > red with Dru and mum by his side? Not the same guy exactly. But yes, > William stayed more like William did than Anne stayed more like Anne. > I think the demon magnified and corrupted any worry that Anne had > about her son and made it much much uglier than it was. I am sure that > she was worried that her son was not striking out and forming a family > of his own. I am sure she dearly wanted to be a grandmother, but that > was a minor thing on her part I believe. The demon however magnified > it to ugly perportions. The demon also put the ugliest spin on the > reason that he stayed behind. Not that he may lack confidence or > competance in life or even that he had an overweening but wholesome > love for mother, but it must had been to get into bed with her. If > that isn't evil I do not know what it is. To twist a son's love for > his mother to such disgusting reasons. Well, This where I get confused. I would go so far to say that vampanne no longer resembled human anne, but vampwilliam still resembled human william. What we have seen with william is that he is willing to do anything to please a loved one, so this could be attributed to him wanting to please dru. Also, angelus obviously had some sort of resentment towards his family, as he went and ate them up. Also of note, if spike/vampwilliam was no longer the same entity, but a demon replaced, why feel hurt by buffies comment saying he was beneath her? > > But why has Spike despite his lacking a soul stayed a "limp > sentimental fool"? There is a precedent to this. Remember that > bookish, mousesy, clerk like vampire that Dru had as a minon to > recover vital parts of The Judge. The Judge later burned him because > he was just to human to tolerate. It seems the more sensitive you are > in life, the more likely it is to carry over partly to your vampire > hood. So you will want to love and take care of dear old mum but to > hell with the rest of humanity. You love books like that "clerk" did > that The Judge burned but you will help destroy the world by > obediently getting the parts together for its doom. Interesting concept, i like it :) Especially interesting, as spike had humanity in him, and angelus had none IIRC sorry for the patheticness of my arguments, but its 2am here, and i i can only access the net now, or not for a few days.

2003-03-28 06:53:24-08:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (metrix007@yahoo.com)


rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote in message news:<3e84048f.202283534@news.telusplanet.net>... > On 27 Mar 2003 22:54:51 -0800, metrix007@yahoo.com (JoshB) wrote: > > >buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.18ed52bda9f1c3ee98989c@news.earthlink.net>... > >> In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, > >> metrix007@yahoo.com says... > >> > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > >> > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > >> > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > >> > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > >> > > >> > thoughts? > >> > > >> --- > >> He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as > >> much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said > >> was accurate. > > > > > >Perhaps, but then if spikes mothers demon was obviously evil, being so > >nasty to her son, then why was william, still like william after being > >vamped? > > Why is it that I recover from the flu after a couple of days but other > > family members takes more than a week? William and his mother > were not the same people and were not possessed by the same > demon. Why should their symptoms necessarily be the same? Good point, but why was williams demon, so similar to william?

2003-03-28 06:53:24-08:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (metrix007@yahoo.com)


rgorman@telusplanet.net (David Johnston) wrote in message news:<3e84048f.202283534@news.telusplanet.net>... > On 27 Mar 2003 22:54:51 -0800, metrix007@yahoo.com (JoshB) wrote: > > >buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.18ed52bda9f1c3ee98989c@news.earthlink.net>... > >> In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, > >> metrix007@yahoo.com says... > >> > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > >> > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > >> > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > >> > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > >> > > >> > thoughts? > >> > > >> --- > >> He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as > >> much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said > >> was accurate. > > > > > >Perhaps, but then if spikes mothers demon was obviously evil, being so > >nasty to her son, then why was william, still like william after being > >vamped? > > Why is it that I recover from the flu after a couple of days but other > > family members takes more than a week? William and his mother > were not the same people and were not possessed by the same > demon. Why should their symptoms necessarily be the same? Good point, but why was williams demon, so similar to william?

2003-03-28 08:09:07+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On 27 Mar 2003 22:54:51 -0800, metrix007@yahoo.com (JoshB) wrote: >buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.18ed52bda9f1c3ee98989c@news.earthlink.net>... >> In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, >> metrix007@yahoo.com says... >> > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let >> > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly >> > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his >> > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. >> > >> > thoughts? >> > >> --- >> He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as >> much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said >> was accurate. > > >Perhaps, but then if spikes mothers demon was obviously evil, being so >nasty to her son, then why was william, still like william after being >vamped? Why is it that I recover from the flu after a couple of days but other family members takes more than a week? William and his mother were not the same people and were not possessed by the same demon. Why should their symptoms necessarily be the same?

2003-03-28 08:09:07+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (rgorman@telusplanet.net)


On 27 Mar 2003 22:54:51 -0800, metrix007@yahoo.com (JoshB) wrote: >buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.18ed52bda9f1c3ee98989c@news.earthlink.net>... >> In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, >> metrix007@yahoo.com says... >> > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let >> > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly >> > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his >> > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. >> > >> > thoughts? >> > >> --- >> He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as >> much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said >> was accurate. > > >Perhaps, but then if spikes mothers demon was obviously evil, being so >nasty to her son, then why was william, still like william after being >vamped? Why is it that I recover from the flu after a couple of days but other family members takes more than a week? William and his mother were not the same people and were not possessed by the same demon. Why should their symptoms necessarily be the same?

2003-03-28 08:51:37+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <c52a4e65.0303272254.63147176@posting.google.com>, metrix007@yahoo.com says... > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.18ed52bda9f1c3ee98989c@news.earthlink.net>... > > In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, > > metrix007@yahoo.com says... > > > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > > > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > > > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > > > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > > > > > thoughts? > > > > > --- > > He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as > > much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said > > was accurate. > > > Perhaps, but then if spikes mothers demon was obviously evil, being so > nasty to her son, then why was william, still like william after being > vamped? yeah, I know he was wanting to do evil, but he still cared > about his mum, something which made him seem very human to me. > --- He wasn't William. Didn't you detect the air of greater confidence that he had? Didn't you here how he literaly wanted to paint the town red with Dru and mum by his side? Not the same guy exactly. But yes, William stayed more like William did than Anne stayed more like Anne. I think the demon magnified and corrupted any worry that Anne had about her son and made it much much uglier than it was. I am sure that she was worried that her son was not striking out and forming a family of his own. I am sure she dearly wanted to be a grandmother, but that was a minor thing on her part I believe. The demon however magnified it to ugly perportions. The demon also put the ugliest spin on the reason that he stayed behind. Not that he may lack confidence or competance in life or even that he had an overweening but wholesome love for mother, but it must had been to get into bed with her. If that isn't evil I do not know what it is. To twist a son's love for his mother to such disgusting reasons. But why has Spike despite his lacking a soul stayed a "limp sentimental fool"? There is a precedent to this. Remember that bookish, mousesy, clerk like vampire that Dru had as a minon to recover vital parts of The Judge. The Judge later burned him because he was just to human to tolerate. It seems the more sensitive you are in life, the more likely it is to carry over partly to your vampire hood. So you will want to love and take care of dear old mum but to hell with the rest of humanity. You love books like that "clerk" did that The Judge burned but you will help destroy the world by obediently getting the parts together for its doom. BTW with all the talk of William the human being a mama's boy and secretly having Odepal desires. Note that no one has picked up (well, I haven't read every post so bare with me) on how Wood has at least once confided to Buffy that she reminded him of his mother. No one is accusing him of desiring incest unconsiously. Why? well, he lives on his own, is successful and is good looking and athletic, everything we desire and nothing pre vamp William was (except maybe good looking). This is backed up BTW by some spoilers I have read for an upcoming BtVS. I think there is some anti-nerd discrimination going on. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907

2003-03-28 08:51:37+00:00 - Re: so...let me get this straight - (buffhunter@my-deja.com)


In article <c52a4e65.0303272254.63147176@posting.google.com>, metrix007@yahoo.com says... > buffhunter@my-deja.com (Hunter) wrote in message news:<MPG.18ed52bda9f1c3ee98989c@news.earthlink.net>... > > In article <c52a4e65.0303260757.51a08734@posting.google.com>, > > metrix007@yahoo.com says... > > > spolier warning for thw whiners...specificly latest buffy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, so spike talking to wood says how he relais that *he* let > > > loose a demon, and it was a demon talking not his mother? I basicly > > > read this as him implying he satyed the same as william, yet his > > > motherdidnt, and was taken over by a demon. > > > > > > thoughts? > > > > > --- > > He let loose a demon whether he stayed the same (he did not,he was as > > much demon as his mother. His soul was gone) or not. What Spike said > > was accurate. > > > Perhaps, but then if spikes mothers demon was obviously evil, being so > nasty to her son, then why was william, still like william after being > vamped? yeah, I know he was wanting to do evil, but he still cared > about his mum, something which made him seem very human to me. > --- He wasn't William. Didn't you detect the air of greater confidence that he had? Didn't you here how he literaly wanted to paint the town red with Dru and mum by his side? Not the same guy exactly. But yes, William stayed more like William did than Anne stayed more like Anne. I think the demon magnified and corrupted any worry that Anne had about her son and made it much much uglier than it was. I am sure that she was worried that her son was not striking out and forming a family of his own. I am sure she dearly wanted to be a grandmother, but that was a minor thing on her part I believe. The demon however magnified it to ugly perportions. The demon also put the ugliest spin on the reason that he stayed behind. Not that he may lack confidence or competance in life or even that he had an overweening but wholesome love for mother, but it must had been to get into bed with her. If that isn't evil I do not know what it is. To twist a son's love for his mother to such disgusting reasons. But why has Spike despite his lacking a soul stayed a "limp sentimental fool"? There is a precedent to this. Remember that bookish, mousesy, clerk like vampire that Dru had as a minon to recover vital parts of The Judge. The Judge later burned him because he was just to human to tolerate. It seems the more sensitive you are in life, the more likely it is to carry over partly to your vampire hood. So you will want to love and take care of dear old mum but to hell with the rest of humanity. You love books like that "clerk" did that The Judge burned but you will help destroy the world by obediently getting the parts together for its doom. BTW with all the talk of William the human being a mama's boy and secretly having Odepal desires. Note that no one has picked up (well, I haven't read every post so bare with me) on how Wood has at least once confided to Buffy that she reminded him of his mother. No one is accusing him of desiring incest unconsiously. Why? well, he lives on his own, is successful and is good looking and athletic, everything we desire and nothing pre vamp William was (except maybe good looking). This is backed up BTW by some spoilers I have read for an upcoming BtVS. I think there is some anti-nerd discrimination going on. -- ----->Hunter "No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'." -----William J. McDonald Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907