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2003-01-22 17:00:46-05:00 - question about spike and his soul - ("Angela St.Aubin" <bodah@sympatico.ca>)


when spike went away, and got his soul back, was that his intention, or did the demon dude do that on his own? it seemed like when spike was leaving sunneydale, he was mad and wanted to get back at buffy, not get his soul back to be with her.

2003-01-22 17:00:46-05:00 - question about spike and his soul - ("Angela St.Aubin" <bodah@sympatico.ca>)


when spike went away, and got his soul back, was that his intention, or did the demon dude do that on his own? it seemed like when spike was leaving sunneydale, he was mad and wanted to get back at buffy, not get his soul back to be with her.

2003-01-23 01:34:06-05:00 - Re: question about spike and his soul - (jere7my tho?rpe <j7y@swil*spamfilter*.org>)


In article <BxEX9.52002$_N5.680955@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Angela St.Aubin" <bodah@sympatico.ca> wrote: > when spike went away, and got his soul back, was that his intention, or did > the demon dude do that on his own? it seemed like when spike was leaving > sunneydale, he was mad and wanted to get back at buffy, not get his soul > back to be with her. Oy, not this again. :)= In short: I, and some other people, saw everything Spike was saying as ambiguous -- "Bitch is gonna get what she deserves" could have meant "I'm gonna kill her and her friends" or "I'm going to get a soul so I can be a real man for her," for instance. Lots of people thought that his tone and attitude made the revenge motive the only plausible one; people like me thought they were being very careful to leave their options open until the big revelation. Regardless, this season they've made it explicit that he went intending to get a soul; whether that's a decision after-the-fact or not is up to the individual viewer. I'd recommend re-watching the end of season 6 with the assumption that Spike went to Africa intending to get a soul and seeing if you see anything that violates that, then deciding on the matter for yourself. ----j7y -- ************************************************************************* jere7my tho?rpe / 734-769-0913 "Homo sum: humani nihil a me Remove *spamfilter* to reply via email alienum puto." ---Terentius

2003-01-23 01:34:06-05:00 - Re: question about spike and his soul - (jere7my tho?rpe <j7y@swil*spamfilter*.org>)


In article <BxEX9.52002$_N5.680955@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Angela St.Aubin" <bodah@sympatico.ca> wrote: > when spike went away, and got his soul back, was that his intention, or did > the demon dude do that on his own? it seemed like when spike was leaving > sunneydale, he was mad and wanted to get back at buffy, not get his soul > back to be with her. Oy, not this again. :)= In short: I, and some other people, saw everything Spike was saying as ambiguous -- "Bitch is gonna get what she deserves" could have meant "I'm gonna kill her and her friends" or "I'm going to get a soul so I can be a real man for her," for instance. Lots of people thought that his tone and attitude made the revenge motive the only plausible one; people like me thought they were being very careful to leave their options open until the big revelation. Regardless, this season they've made it explicit that he went intending to get a soul; whether that's a decision after-the-fact or not is up to the individual viewer. I'd recommend re-watching the end of season 6 with the assumption that Spike went to Africa intending to get a soul and seeing if you see anything that violates that, then deciding on the matter for yourself. ----j7y -- ************************************************************************* jere7my tho?rpe / 734-769-0913 "Homo sum: humani nihil a me Remove *spamfilter* to reply via email alienum puto." ---Terentius

2003-01-23 12:36:08+00:00 - Re: question about spike and his soul - (Speaker-to-Customers <greebo@manx.net>)


jere7my tho?rpe wrote: > "Angela St.Aubin" wrote: > >> when spike went away, and got his soul back, was that his intention, >> or did the demon dude do that on his own? it seemed like when spike >> was leaving sunneydale, he was mad and wanted to get back at buffy, >> not get his soul back to be with her. > > Oy, not this again. :)= In short: I, and some other people, > saw everything Spike was saying as ambiguous -- "Bitch is gonna get > what she deserves" could have meant "I'm gonna kill her and her > friends" or "I'm going to get a soul so I can be a real man for her," > for instance. He could have killed *her* anyway. She can beat him in a straight fight, but he could have got his shotgun and blown her head off, and the chip wouldn't have stopped him. He couldn't have killed her friends - but why would that have been a necessary part of any revenge anyway? > Lots of people thought that his tone and attitude made > the revenge motive the only plausible one; people like me thought > they were being very careful to leave their options open until the > big revelation. Regardless, this season they've made it explicit > that he went intending to get a soul; whether that's a decision after- > the-fact or not is up to the individual viewer. > > I'd recommend re-watching the end of season 6 with the assumption > that Spike went to Africa intending to get a soul and seeing if you > see anything that violates that, then deciding on the matter for > yourself. I've *always* thought that Spike at that time was in despair, in pain, and in rage, and didn't know what he wanted himself. Part of him wanted to be free of his love for her so he could act any way he wanted; part of him wanted the chip out; part of him wanted to be truly good so that he could have a genuine loving relationship with Buffy. Part of him, I think, wanted to be "a real boy". And a massive part of him wanted to be more like Angel, and has done ever since the 19th Century. His feelings for Angel have always been mixed up, but there is a lot of admiration there as well as jealousy and occasional hatred. The predominant desire coming out of that seething mix was probably indeed for him to be "a vampire with a soul". How lame is that? Not lame at all, in my opinion. Paul Speaker-to-Customers -- "Bother!" said Pooh. "Yes, he's evil. But you should see him naked. I mean, really!"

2003-01-23 12:36:08+00:00 - Re: question about spike and his soul - (Speaker-to-Customers <greebo@manx.net>)


jere7my tho?rpe wrote: > "Angela St.Aubin" wrote: > >> when spike went away, and got his soul back, was that his intention, >> or did the demon dude do that on his own? it seemed like when spike >> was leaving sunneydale, he was mad and wanted to get back at buffy, >> not get his soul back to be with her. > > Oy, not this again. :)= In short: I, and some other people, > saw everything Spike was saying as ambiguous -- "Bitch is gonna get > what she deserves" could have meant "I'm gonna kill her and her > friends" or "I'm going to get a soul so I can be a real man for her," > for instance. He could have killed *her* anyway. She can beat him in a straight fight, but he could have got his shotgun and blown her head off, and the chip wouldn't have stopped him. He couldn't have killed her friends - but why would that have been a necessary part of any revenge anyway? > Lots of people thought that his tone and attitude made > the revenge motive the only plausible one; people like me thought > they were being very careful to leave their options open until the > big revelation. Regardless, this season they've made it explicit > that he went intending to get a soul; whether that's a decision after- > the-fact or not is up to the individual viewer. > > I'd recommend re-watching the end of season 6 with the assumption > that Spike went to Africa intending to get a soul and seeing if you > see anything that violates that, then deciding on the matter for > yourself. I've *always* thought that Spike at that time was in despair, in pain, and in rage, and didn't know what he wanted himself. Part of him wanted to be free of his love for her so he could act any way he wanted; part of him wanted the chip out; part of him wanted to be truly good so that he could have a genuine loving relationship with Buffy. Part of him, I think, wanted to be "a real boy". And a massive part of him wanted to be more like Angel, and has done ever since the 19th Century. His feelings for Angel have always been mixed up, but there is a lot of admiration there as well as jealousy and occasional hatred. The predominant desire coming out of that seething mix was probably indeed for him to be "a vampire with a soul". How lame is that? Not lame at all, in my opinion. Paul Speaker-to-Customers -- "Bother!" said Pooh. "Yes, he's evil. But you should see him naked. I mean, really!"

2003-01-23 13:01:54+00:00 - Re: question about spike and his soul - (Chris Zabel <alephnull@earthlink.net>)


Isn't this in the faq? Do we have a faq on stuff like this? This seems to come up about every other week.

2003-01-23 13:01:54+00:00 - Re: question about spike and his soul - (Chris Zabel <alephnull@earthlink.net>)


Isn't this in the faq? Do we have a faq on stuff like this? This seems to come up about every other week.

2003-01-23 22:22:02-05:00 - Re: question about spike and his soul - (jere7my tho?rpe <j7y@swil*spamfilter*.org>)


In article <b0onhm$roesa$1@ID-138064.news.dfncis.de>, "Speaker-to-Customers" <greebo@manx.net> wrote: > He could have killed *her* anyway. She can beat him in a straight fight, > but he could have got his shotgun and blown her head off, and the chip > wouldn't have stopped him. Just to point out, you're preaching to the choir here -- I saw that he was going to get his soul out, and used that very argument at the time. I thought it best to present both sides of the argument, though, to avoid another brush fire. ----j7y -- ************************************************************************* jere7my tho?rpe / 734-769-0913 "Homo sum: humani nihil a me Remove *spamfilter* to reply via email alienum puto." ---Terentius

2003-01-23 22:22:02-05:00 - Re: question about spike and his soul - (jere7my tho?rpe <j7y@swil*spamfilter*.org>)


In article <b0onhm$roesa$1@ID-138064.news.dfncis.de>, "Speaker-to-Customers" <greebo@manx.net> wrote: > He could have killed *her* anyway. She can beat him in a straight fight, > but he could have got his shotgun and blown her head off, and the chip > wouldn't have stopped him. Just to point out, you're preaching to the choir here -- I saw that he was going to get his soul out, and used that very argument at the time. I thought it best to present both sides of the argument, though, to avoid another brush fire. ----j7y -- ************************************************************************* jere7my tho?rpe / 734-769-0913 "Homo sum: humani nihil a me Remove *spamfilter* to reply via email alienum puto." ---Terentius

2003-01-23 22:28:48+00:00 - Re: question about spike and his soul - (Smaug69 <smaug69xx@carolinaxx.rrxx.com>)




2003-01-23 22:28:48+00:00 - Re: question about spike and his soul - (Smaug69 <smaug69xx@carolinaxx.rrxx.com>)