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2003-03-18 02:06:45-08:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (cybertigger1@msn.com)


David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in message news:<nieporen-C466C9.02244118032003@news.fu-berlin.de>... > In Bargaining, the demon bikers interrupted Willow's bring-back-Buffy > spell, accidentally smashing the urn in the process. Willow, of course, > fears that the spell has been ruined, but it wasn't. But we never found > out what the effect of that interruption was. Is that supposed to be what > caused Buffy to "come back wrong" so that Spike could hit her? Or was it a > plot point that ME just dropped? There had to be *some* effect to the urn > being smashed. > > > > BTW, the demon bikers are enticed to Sunnydale by the fact that there's no > Slayer there anymore. If they only came for that reason, then why are so > many demons in Sunnydale when the Slayer *is* there? > > --------------------------------------------- > David M. Nieporent nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu The spell had worked (and pretty much perfectly, too) prior to the interruption and the smashing of the urn. So, the breaking of the urn had no effect on the spell or Buffy. Bad things are attracted to (and sometimes come out of) the Hellmouth. They have a hard time resisting its lure, even with the presence of the Slayer. But apparently fear of the Slayer is enough to persuade quite a few of the more "rational" demons to resist the attraction and get their jollies elsewhere. Buffy isn't a perfect deterrent, but she does help keep the demon population in Sunnydale down both by slaying and by reputation. Gregg

2003-03-18 02:06:45-08:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (cybertigger1@msn.com)


David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in message news:<nieporen-C466C9.02244118032003@news.fu-berlin.de>... > In Bargaining, the demon bikers interrupted Willow's bring-back-Buffy > spell, accidentally smashing the urn in the process. Willow, of course, > fears that the spell has been ruined, but it wasn't. But we never found > out what the effect of that interruption was. Is that supposed to be what > caused Buffy to "come back wrong" so that Spike could hit her? Or was it a > plot point that ME just dropped? There had to be *some* effect to the urn > being smashed. > > > > BTW, the demon bikers are enticed to Sunnydale by the fact that there's no > Slayer there anymore. If they only came for that reason, then why are so > many demons in Sunnydale when the Slayer *is* there? > > --------------------------------------------- > David M. Nieporent nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu The spell had worked (and pretty much perfectly, too) prior to the interruption and the smashing of the urn. So, the breaking of the urn had no effect on the spell or Buffy. Bad things are attracted to (and sometimes come out of) the Hellmouth. They have a hard time resisting its lure, even with the presence of the Slayer. But apparently fear of the Slayer is enough to persuade quite a few of the more "rational" demons to resist the attraction and get their jollies elsewhere. Buffy isn't a perfect deterrent, but she does help keep the demon population in Sunnydale down both by slaying and by reputation. Gregg

2003-03-18 02:24:41-05:00 - Bargaining question - (David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu>)


In Bargaining, the demon bikers interrupted Willow's bring-back-Buffy spell, accidentally smashing the urn in the process. Willow, of course, fears that the spell has been ruined, but it wasn't. But we never found out what the effect of that interruption was. Is that supposed to be what caused Buffy to "come back wrong" so that Spike could hit her? Or was it a plot point that ME just dropped? There had to be *some* effect to the urn being smashed. BTW, the demon bikers are enticed to Sunnydale by the fact that there's no Slayer there anymore. If they only came for that reason, then why are so many demons in Sunnydale when the Slayer *is* there? --------------------------------------------- David M. Nieporent nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu

2003-03-18 02:24:41-05:00 - Bargaining question - (David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu>)


In Bargaining, the demon bikers interrupted Willow's bring-back-Buffy spell, accidentally smashing the urn in the process. Willow, of course, fears that the spell has been ruined, but it wasn't. But we never found out what the effect of that interruption was. Is that supposed to be what caused Buffy to "come back wrong" so that Spike could hit her? Or was it a plot point that ME just dropped? There had to be *some* effect to the urn being smashed. BTW, the demon bikers are enticed to Sunnydale by the fact that there's no Slayer there anymore. If they only came for that reason, then why are so many demons in Sunnydale when the Slayer *is* there? --------------------------------------------- David M. Nieporent nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu

2003-03-18 12:15:22+00:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (Speaker-to-Customers <greebo@manx.net>)


David Marc Nieporent wrote: (Snip) > BTW, the demon bikers are enticed to Sunnydale by the fact that > there's no Slayer there anymore. If they only came for that reason, > then why are so many demons in Sunnydale when the Slayer *is* there? They are drawn by the Hellmouth. Also, the butchers sell blood with no questions asked, and there are great bands at the Bronze with no advance booking required. Paul Speaker-to-Customers

2003-03-18 12:15:22+00:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (Speaker-to-Customers <greebo@manx.net>)


David Marc Nieporent wrote: (Snip) > BTW, the demon bikers are enticed to Sunnydale by the fact that > there's no Slayer there anymore. If they only came for that reason, > then why are so many demons in Sunnydale when the Slayer *is* there? They are drawn by the Hellmouth. Also, the butchers sell blood with no questions asked, and there are great bands at the Bronze with no advance booking required. Paul Speaker-to-Customers

2003-03-18 13:36:59-05:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (Morpheus <carterr@miskatonic.edu>)


"Speaker-to-Customers" <greebo@manx.net> wrote in message news:b572j8$26h7ds$1@ID-138064.news.dfncis.de... > David Marc Nieporent wrote: > > (Snip) > > BTW, the demon bikers are enticed to Sunnydale by the fact that > > there's no Slayer there anymore. If they only came for that reason, > > then why are so many demons in Sunnydale when the Slayer *is* there? > > They are drawn by the Hellmouth. Also, the butchers sell blood with no > questions asked, and there are great bands at the Bronze with no advance > booking required. > > Paul Speaker-to-Customers > Don't forget the Mayor and his demon-friendly policies, the vampire hookers, and the bars that cater to their kind of crowd.

2003-03-18 13:36:59-05:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (Morpheus <carterr@miskatonic.edu>)


"Speaker-to-Customers" <greebo@manx.net> wrote in message news:b572j8$26h7ds$1@ID-138064.news.dfncis.de... > David Marc Nieporent wrote: > > (Snip) > > BTW, the demon bikers are enticed to Sunnydale by the fact that > > there's no Slayer there anymore. If they only came for that reason, > > then why are so many demons in Sunnydale when the Slayer *is* there? > > They are drawn by the Hellmouth. Also, the butchers sell blood with no > questions asked, and there are great bands at the Bronze with no advance > booking required. > > Paul Speaker-to-Customers > Don't forget the Mayor and his demon-friendly policies, the vampire hookers, and the bars that cater to their kind of crowd.

2003-03-18 15:06:03-05:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu>)


In article <ea417851.0303180206.6b6e6c61@posting.google.com>, cybertigger1@msn.com (Gregg) wrote: >David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in message >> In Bargaining, the demon bikers interrupted Willow's bring-back-Buffy >> spell, accidentally smashing the urn in the process. Willow, of course, >> fears that the spell has been ruined, but it wasn't. But we never found >> out what the effect of that interruption was. Is that supposed to be what >> caused Buffy to "come back wrong" so that Spike could hit her? Or was it a >> plot point that ME just dropped? There had to be *some* effect to the urn >> being smashed. >The spell had worked (and pretty much perfectly, too) prior to the >interruption and the smashing of the urn. So, the breaking of the urn >had no effect on the spell or Buffy. Well, Willow didn't seem to think the spell was finished. And the special effects were all still glowing around her to show that the spell was still in progress. They smashed the urn, and the lights immediately vanished. That implies that the spell was still operating. Hoping war doesn't preempt Angel... --------------------------------------------- David M. Nieporent nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu

2003-03-18 15:06:03-05:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu>)


In article <ea417851.0303180206.6b6e6c61@posting.google.com>, cybertigger1@msn.com (Gregg) wrote: >David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in message >> In Bargaining, the demon bikers interrupted Willow's bring-back-Buffy >> spell, accidentally smashing the urn in the process. Willow, of course, >> fears that the spell has been ruined, but it wasn't. But we never found >> out what the effect of that interruption was. Is that supposed to be what >> caused Buffy to "come back wrong" so that Spike could hit her? Or was it a >> plot point that ME just dropped? There had to be *some* effect to the urn >> being smashed. >The spell had worked (and pretty much perfectly, too) prior to the >interruption and the smashing of the urn. So, the breaking of the urn >had no effect on the spell or Buffy. Well, Willow didn't seem to think the spell was finished. And the special effects were all still glowing around her to show that the spell was still in progress. They smashed the urn, and the lights immediately vanished. That implies that the spell was still operating. Hoping war doesn't preempt Angel... --------------------------------------------- David M. Nieporent nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu

2003-03-18 16:57:12+00:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (stephen.bvs@stempest.demon.co.uk)


David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu> writes: >There had to be *some* effect to the urn >being smashed. There was. It meant that she couldn't *repeat* the spell once it had apparently failed the first time. Stephen

2003-03-18 16:57:12+00:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (stephen.bvs@stempest.demon.co.uk)


David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu> writes: >There had to be *some* effect to the urn >being smashed. There was. It meant that she couldn't *repeat* the spell once it had apparently failed the first time. Stephen

2003-03-18 23:05:55+00:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (aimee@rmta.org)


David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote: [snip] > Hoping war doesn't preempt Angel... in my experience, wb doesn't interrupt anything for breaking news. at least, that's the case with the st louis affiliate. the fox station here, otoh, will preempt for in-depth coverage of a routine thunderstorm. Aimee the Magdalene /^^^\~~~~the willfully misunderstood lyrics .sig~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ( )~~~6:58, are you sure where my spork is? ~ \ /~~~~ - not quite Tori Amos ~ | |~~~~~stale incense, old sweat, and pies, pies, pies! ~ | |~~~~~ - almost Trent Reznor ~ | |~~~~~you gave me everything you had, o you gave me lice ~ | |~~~~~ - sorta Sarah McLachlan ~ | |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2003-03-18 23:05:55+00:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (aimee@rmta.org)


David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote: [snip] > Hoping war doesn't preempt Angel... in my experience, wb doesn't interrupt anything for breaking news. at least, that's the case with the st louis affiliate. the fox station here, otoh, will preempt for in-depth coverage of a routine thunderstorm. Aimee the Magdalene /^^^\~~~~the willfully misunderstood lyrics .sig~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ( )~~~6:58, are you sure where my spork is? ~ \ /~~~~ - not quite Tori Amos ~ | |~~~~~stale incense, old sweat, and pies, pies, pies! ~ | |~~~~~ - almost Trent Reznor ~ | |~~~~~you gave me everything you had, o you gave me lice ~ | |~~~~~ - sorta Sarah McLachlan ~ | |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2003-03-19 09:27:58+00:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in news:nieporen-C466C9.02244118032003@news.fu-berlin.de: > In Bargaining, the demon bikers interrupted Willow's bring-back-Buffy > spell, accidentally smashing the urn in the process. Willow, of > course, fears that the spell has been ruined, but it wasn't. But we > never found out what the effect of that interruption was. Is that > supposed to be what caused Buffy to "come back wrong" so that Spike > could hit her? Or was it a plot point that ME just dropped? There > had to be *some* effect to the urn being smashed. a couple of possibilities besides the ones you listed - the end of the spell would have resulted in Buffy's coffin getting raised above the ground, making it far easier for her to get out. (Yes, Xander noted they didn't think to dig her out of the ground, but he may not have realized everything involved in the spell) This was pretty dark magiks for Willow so she may not have been certain that it would have succeeded. She may have assumed that she failed even though she didn't (which ironically echos back to restoring Angel's soul in "Becoming") The last part of the spell was a make the person I'm restoring to life remember that she should not have sex with an unsouled vampire and make sure I don't get addicted to a bad story arc segment of the spell. See what happens when you get interrupted in the middle of a spell? > BTW, the demon bikers are enticed to Sunnydale by the fact that > there's no Slayer there anymore. If they only came for that reason, > then why are so many demons in Sunnydale when the Slayer *is* there? Doublemeat Palace. Those demons just can't resist those fast food joints! Philip Chien (who was under Willow's spell from the first time he saw her)

2003-03-19 09:27:58+00:00 - Re: Bargaining question - (Philip Chien <nobody@nowhere.com>)


David Marc Nieporent <nieporen@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in news:nieporen-C466C9.02244118032003@news.fu-berlin.de: > In Bargaining, the demon bikers interrupted Willow's bring-back-Buffy > spell, accidentally smashing the urn in the process. Willow, of > course, fears that the spell has been ruined, but it wasn't. But we > never found out what the effect of that interruption was. Is that > supposed to be what caused Buffy to "come back wrong" so that Spike > could hit her? Or was it a plot point that ME just dropped? There > had to be *some* effect to the urn being smashed. a couple of possibilities besides the ones you listed - the end of the spell would have resulted in Buffy's coffin getting raised above the ground, making it far easier for her to get out. (Yes, Xander noted they didn't think to dig her out of the ground, but he may not have realized everything involved in the spell) This was pretty dark magiks for Willow so she may not have been certain that it would have succeeded. She may have assumed that she failed even though she didn't (which ironically echos back to restoring Angel's soul in "Becoming") The last part of the spell was a make the person I'm restoring to life remember that she should not have sex with an unsouled vampire and make sure I don't get addicted to a bad story arc segment of the spell. See what happens when you get interrupted in the middle of a spell? > BTW, the demon bikers are enticed to Sunnydale by the fact that > there's no Slayer there anymore. If they only came for that reason, > then why are so many demons in Sunnydale when the Slayer *is* there? Doublemeat Palace. Those demons just can't resist those fast food joints! Philip Chien (who was under Willow's spell from the first time he saw her)