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1998-09-29 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - ("Colin L. Whipple" <colincpaNOSPAM@soca.com>)


Her decision, in Hard Landing, to come back to Section was a major turning point. Colin >OK gang- > >A question for your discussion: > >Both Operations and Madeline have told Nikita that she has become "one of us". >If this is true, where, in your opinion, did the turning point for her come? Or >do you think she hasn't become a true sectionite? > >I'll tell you mine after you tell me yours. > > > > >Paleoanth >

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (Colin Whipple <colincpaNOSPAM@soca.com>)


Since their actions are controlled by the writers..... :-) Colin REvans7877 wrote in message <19980930141705.24600.00004204@ng40.aol.com>... > >"one of them" were talking about them like their zombies or something >A>A>M> >" Make the bad man go away"

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (stremy1@aol.com)


I agree with whomever it was that said it was when she brought in O'Brien. That was one of the first times she really surprised me and made me think that she was developing in a Section direction. I don't think she'll ever be a killing machine, a la Michael, but I thought that move was a real sign of developing deviousness on her part. As for her coming back in Hard Landing - I always saw that act as coming from a place of weakness - or multiple weaknesses -not one of strength.

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (melpor <melpor@bellsouth.net>)


Rita wrote: > > > >It doesn't always work, sometimes there are bitter compromises.... > >Sometimes she hates what she has to do... > >And sometimes she knows she has done the right thing.... > > > >Sort of like RL.... > > > >EZBee, > I agree, EZBee. But I also see that as true of Michael, Birky and > Walter. They have just had more practice at living in this nether > world and also Nikita tends to be more transparent in her feelings and > young enough to lack the sense of self-preservation the others have > learned. > Rita > > "Love will build a bridge . . . . > Hmm, wish it would build me a patio." I think you've put the last piece together on this Rita...I think it's N's sense of self-preservation that's been so important to the storyline of Season 2. The end of season 1 showed N's lack of this thus threatening her survival within Section. She had coping/survival skills from the street (or so we are led to believe) when she came into Section, but she lacked balance between her emotional feeling responses and her own self-preservation which often compromised her standing in Section and led to her trip to the abeyance pool. We often discuss N's compassion and humanity, and I believe that both are necessary to provide conflict between Section and N. More important to the growth of the show, my opinion here, is how Nikita negotiates a level of acceptance between her conscience, compassion and heart and the work she must do to survive another day as an operative. I think all the moments folks have used as examples are the precursors to EG and the showdown/trial. Ultimately the moment she chose Section and not Adrian was, to me, the moment she was "one of them" even though it wasn't quite like Operations had imagined. Melissa did i write a serious response? Something must be really wrong with me...

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (Suzita <SUGEO@worldnet.att.net>)


melpor wrote in message <3612A841.58D95FED@bellsouth.net>... >Rita wrote: > >> > >> >It doesn't always work, sometimes there are bitter compromises.... >> >Sometimes she hates what she has to do... >> >And sometimes she knows she has done the right thing.... >> > >> >Sort of like RL.... >> > >> >EZBee, >> I agree, EZBee. But I also see that as true of Michael, Birky and >> Walter. They have just had more practice at living in this nether >> world and also Nikita tends to be more transparent in her feelings and >> young enough to lack the sense of self-preservation the others have >> learned. >> Rita >> >> "Love will build a bridge . . . . >> Hmm, wish it would build me a patio." > > I think you've put the last piece together on this Rita...I think it's >N's sense of self-preservation that's been so important to the storyline >of Season 2. The end of season 1 showed N's lack of this thus >threatening >her survival within Section. She had coping/survival skills from the >street (or so we are led to believe) when she came into Section, but she >lacked balance between her emotional feeling responses and her own >self-preservation which often compromised her standing in Section and >led >to her trip to the abeyance pool. > >We often discuss N's compassion and humanity, and I believe that both >are >necessary to provide conflict between Section and N. More important to >the growth of the show, my opinion here, is how Nikita negotiates a >level >of acceptance between her conscience, compassion and heart and the work >she must do to survive another day as an operative. > >I think all the moments folks have used as examples are the precursors >to >EG and the showdown/trial. Ultimately the moment she chose Section and >not Adrian was, to me, the moment she was "one of them" even though it >wasn't quite like Operations had imagined. > >Melissa >did i write a serious response? Something must be really wrong with >me... Melissa, I completely agree. Though I think she may still go through the philosophical questions/analyses towards justifying her actions, I think she will act in the way that will best preserve herself and meet the Section's goals. I think the difference will be that she will act on Section's behalf. I have really enjoyed Season 2 for the very reason that we see Nikita evolving (or devolving....depends on your own personal philosophies). For me, as I stated somewhat fuzzily earlier, I think the episode that showed me she was willing to play Section games was Old Habits. And after some further reflection, that episode remains, for me, her final and most profound turning point to accepting and figuring out how to live by Section rules while making a few of her own, not unlike Michael (who I see her becoming more like.) And by End Game, we see that she has both feet in the door, and is there to stay. Suzita

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (Suzita <SUGEO@worldnet.att.net>)


KDWatkins2 wrote in message <19980929221407.22841.00003426@ng154.aol.com>... > >>Her decision, in Hard Landing, to come back to Section was a >>major turning point. > >I think another major turning point was her willing participation to bring Greg >back to Section in Fuzzy Logic. She didn't seem to display her patented Nikita >"angst for the innocent" in that one. > >Kathy True. But it seemed to me that she just took the opportunity presented her to 'show' Greg what Section is all about. Also, at the end, when Greg was being taken back to the car, she did look somewhat sad while she stood in the driveway. Suzita >

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (granvia@aol.com)


> >True. But it seemed to me that she just took the opportunity presented her >to 'show' Greg what Section is all about. Also, at the end, when Greg was >being taken back to the car, she did look somewhat sad while she stood in >the driveway. > >Suzita >> > > G > Sad and disappointed >KDWatkins2 wrote in message <19980929221407.22841.00003426@ng154.aol.com>... >> >>>Her decision, in Hard Landing, to come back to Section was a >>>major turning point. >> >>I think another major turning point was her willing participation to bring >Greg >>back to Section in Fuzzy Logic. She didn't seem to display her patented >Nikita >>"angst for the innocent" in that one. >> >>Kathy " Michael is the moon to Nikita's tide." gvd

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - ("Colin L. Whipple" <colincpaNOSPAM@soca.com>)


Suzita wrote in message <6uucmq$9d2@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>... > >True. But it seemed to me that she just took the opportunity presented her >to 'show' Greg what Section is all about. Also, at the end, when Greg was >being taken back to the car, she did look somewhat sad while she stood in >the driveway. > >Suzita But sad, not angry this time. A recognition of reality. Colin

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (jennifer jeffery <jenifoto@nospam.com>)


Paleoanth wrote: > > OK gang- > > A question for your discussion: > > Both Operations and Madeline have told Nikita that she has become "one of us". > If this is true, where, in your opinion, did the turning point for her come? Or > do you think she hasn't become a true sectionite? > > I'll tell you mine after you tell me yours. > > Paleoanth I think that underneath the ruthlessness, the members of Section are humans who have learned to play the game. The Game of Section that is. It's not actually becoming a cold moster, it's having the abilty to appear that way to others at all times. Nikita has most definitely learned to play the game, especially as compared to Season 1. jen -- pop!folio - a gallery of concert photography by jennifer jeffery http://www.popfolio.com

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (Cheryl Olds <CLO348@worldnet.att.net>)


She definitely not a sectionite, she still retains her "flaw" of compassion, but is learning to play the game. (JMHO) Cheryl <<>> Paleoanth wrote in message <19980929210928.13638.00003488@ng-fc2.aol.com>... > >OK gang- > >A question for your discussion: > >Both Operations and Madeline have told Nikita that she has become "one of us". >If this is true, where, in your opinion, did the turning point for her come? Or >do you think she hasn't become a true sectionite? > >I'll tell you mine after you tell me yours. > > > > >Paleoanth

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (lmartin826@aol.com)


I think it is because she is starting to think as the other operative as family. She is will to risk her life to save theirs. No matter how she disagrees with means of the mission. She knows the end will justify the means. What she is doing there has purpose, burtal but purpose. Leah

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (va_linda@my-dejanews.com)


I think she became closer to being one of them when she recruited O'Brian. But I'm not so sure she really is one of them yet. Although when Ops made the statement in Off Profile that she would have come to them with the truth about Andrea trying to kill Michael I had to agree. va In article <xvfQ1.71$YU5.985470@nntptransit.lsan03.pbi.net>, "Colin L. Whipple" <colincpaNOSPAM@soca.com> wrote: > Her decision, in Hard Landing, to come back to Section was a > major turning point. > > Colin > > >OK gang- > > > >A question for your discussion: > > > >Both Operations and Madeline have told Nikita that she has > become "one of us". > >If this is true, where, in your opinion, did the turning > point for her come? Or > >do you think she hasn't become a true sectionite? > > > >I'll tell you mine after you tell me yours. > > > > > > > > > >Paleoanth > > > > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (va_linda@my-dejanews.com)


. > > I think another major turning point was her willing participation to bring Greg > back to Section in Fuzzy Logic. She didn't seem to display her patented Nikita > "angst for the innocent" in that one. > > Kathy Good one Kathy! I was surprised it was her under that mask. va > > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (va_linda@my-dejanews.com)


In article <19980929223827.02005.00003379@ng28.aol.com>, pianolds1@aol.com (Pianolds1) wrote: > > I think, as with all things, she evolved slowly. The beginning was on the > first episode where she saved Michael from being shot. From there it was a > constant process of getting to know more of the operatives and learning what > it's like to be part of a team. > > Gail Gail your right she definitely has become more of a team player. va > > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (lafannkta@aol.com)


Both Operations and Madeline have told Nikita that she has become "one of us". >If this is true, where, in your opinion, did the turning point for her come? Or >do you think she hasn't become a true sectionite? > >I'll tell you mine after you tell me yours. I think I concur with Colin on this one. Previous to her 'escape" she wanted nothing more than to get out. Now that she knew that "out" wasn't much better, she made the realization that she must adapt more to how the section operates. BUT>>>>>>>>>.......... she will never be completely one of "THEM" Denise2 Denise2

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (EZBaggerBabe <ELZBURNS@Prodigy.Net>)


lafannkta@aol.com (LaFanNKTA) writes: > > Both Operations and Madeline have told Nikita that she has become "one of > us". > >If this is true, where, in your opinion, did the turning point for her > come? Or > >do you think she hasn't become a true sectionite? > > > >I'll tell you mine after you tell me yours. Her 'conversion' to being a better operative has been incremental... Shooting Garsha in War, 'recruiting' O'Brien in Voices, shooting the guy right off the bat in Third Person, seducing ?? in Open Heart.... But she will never be truly sectionized for several reasons.... One is that she wasn't really section material to start with, she had never killed before her recruitment.... Her soul wasn't hardened and selfish, intent on its own gain... The other reason is she still feels all the gamut of strong emotions that most humans feel....love, hate, anger, joy.... So, she is always making judgements of her situations based on her emotional palette.... She reacts to the world around her in that manner.... To both the good in the evil.... She despised Bauer, she felt compassion for Rudy, she pitied Lisa, she hated Garsha, she felt protective of Peter and Sasha, she loves Michael, Unlike Ops and Maddy, who are floating in kind of a nether world of "shades of grey" while viewing "the big picture"..... They aren't experiencing any pain, nor are they experiencing great joy either.... Michael was up there with them, but Nikita has managed to puncture the balloon and now he is scrambling with her for a safe ground in Section. So, to answer the question.... while she is now a better Operative, she will never be Sectionlized 100%..... She has accepted Section as her home, her fate, her lot in life.... and she simply knows how to play the game in both directions... How to make them happy while staying true to herself.... It doesn't always work, sometimes there are bitter compromises.... Sometimes she hates what she has to do... And sometimes she knows she has done the right thing.... Sort of like RL.... EZBee, I HAVE to get my desk cleared off... I HAVE to inservice my department... I HAVE to...sheesh...I will never leave....

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (BJ Nelson <bne651@airmail.net>)


EZBaggerBabe wrote in message <6utlam$413o$1@newssvr04- snips >So, to answer the question.... >while she is now a better Operative, she will never be Sectionlized >100%..... > >She has accepted Section as her home, her fate, her lot in life.... > >and she simply knows how to play the game in both directions... > >How to make them happy while staying true to herself.... > >It doesn't always work, sometimes there are bitter compromises.... >Sometimes she hates what she has to do... >And sometimes she knows she has done the right thing.... > >Sort of like RL.... I totally agree with this. Except that I'm not so sure she has really *accepted* that section is her fate forever. I think she does accept that a large amount of the time now (where as she didn't used to at all), but I think a part of her still looks to somehow, someday escape. Beat them at their own game. Something. Somehow. Beej

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (EZBaggerBabe <ELZBURNS@Prodigy.Net>)


"BJ Nelson" <bne651@airmail.net> writes: > > I totally agree with this. Except that I'm not so sure she has really > *accepted* that section is her fate forever. I think she does accept that a > large amount of the time now (where as she didn't used to at all), but I > think a part of her still looks to somehow, someday escape. Beat them at > their own game. Something. Somehow. You are right..... I think if a door out opens,she will for sure walk through it, but I don't think she is so frantically trying to find the way out like she was in Season One. My take is she is focusing more on living in the present and making the best of her life as it is while being alert to any good opportunities. EZBee, Anyone out there have the phone number for the Radisson Don Valley?

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (rita7@pacbell.net)


> >It doesn't always work, sometimes there are bitter compromises.... >Sometimes she hates what she has to do... >And sometimes she knows she has done the right thing.... > >Sort of like RL.... > >EZBee, I agree, EZBee. But I also see that as true of Michael, Birky and Walter. They have just had more practice at living in this nether world and also Nikita tends to be more transparent in her feelings and young enough to lack the sense of self-preservation the others have learned. Rita "Love will build a bridge . . . . Hmm, wish it would build me a patio."

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (revans7877@aol.com)


"one of them" were talking about them like their zombies or something A>A>M> " Make the bad man go away"

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - An honest to God LFN question - (paleoanth@aol.com)


OK gang- A question for your discussion: Both Operations and Madeline have told Nikita that she has become "one of us". If this is true, where, in your opinion, did the turning point for her come? Or do you think she hasn't become a true sectionite? I'll tell you mine after you tell me yours. Paleoanth

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (kdwatkins2@aol.com)


>Her decision, in Hard Landing, to come back to Section was a >major turning point. I think another major turning point was her willing participation to bring Greg back to Section in Fuzzy Logic. She didn't seem to display her patented Nikita "angst for the innocent" in that one. Kathy

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (Suzita <SUGEO@worldnet.att.net>)


Paleoanth wrote in message <19980929210928.13638.00003488@ng-fc2.aol.com>... > >OK gang- > >A question for your discussion: > >Both Operations and Madeline have told Nikita that she has become "one of us". >If this is true, where, in your opinion, did the turning point for her come? Or >do you think she hasn't become a true sectionite? > >I'll tell you mine after you tell me yours. Excellent question, Pale. I nearly fainted when I saw the subject heading. LOL. One point (though not the major one) for me would be New Regime. Watched it again today. I think she did enjoy being in the know and making decisions, and having the 'power'. She just didn't like what went with it. I will have to think more on this. Old Habits may have been it........hmmmm. Suzita > > > >Paleoanth

1998-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (pianolds1@aol.com)


I think, as with all things, she evolved slowly. The beginning was on the first episode where she saved Michael from being shot. From there it was a constant process of getting to know more of the operatives and learning what it's like to be part of a team. Gail

1998-10-01 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (rita7@pacbell.net)


>> >>I think all the moments folks have used as examples are the precursors >>to >>EG and the showdown/trial. Ultimately the moment she chose Section and >>not Adrian was, to me, the moment she was "one of them" even though it >>wasn't quite like Operations had imagined. Melissa, I agree. And I venture to think that is what the writers were aiming for. The first two seasons have been about Nikita's warring against Section, refusing to accept that this was where she was going to be. In season one we see her constantly refusing to accept and fighting like a butterfly trapped in a jar, wanting only to escape. I think season two moved her to realize that life on the outside is no longer an option for he. So the choice had to be, "Am I willing just give up and die or is life in Section something I can handle and do the ends really justify the means?" I think she made her choice and decided to choose life and that means life within Section. I believe Season three may just deal with Nikita's struggle to balance her new acceptance and loyalty, with her innate compassion and sense of fair play. I believe that working from within the structure, she can become the conscience of Section one. Rita "Love will build a bridge . . . . Hmm, wish it would build me a patio."

1998-10-01 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (rita7@pacbell.net)


>Greg >>back to Section in Fuzzy Logic. She didn't seem to display her patented >Nikita >>"angst for the innocent" in that one. >> >>Kathy > >True. But it seemed to me that she just took the opportunity presented her >to 'show' Greg what Section is all about. Also, at the end, when Greg was >being taken back to the car, she did look somewhat sad while she stood in >the driveway. > >Suzita >> I agree. I think even Nikita can only be a "bleeding heart" so far. She gave Greg every opportunity to see Section for what it was and leave, even at some risk to herself. He chose to ignore her advice so I think that, though she was saddened by it, she did her job knowing that he brought it on himself. Rita "Love will build a bridge . . . . Hmm, wish it would build me a patio."

1998-10-01 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (rita7@pacbell.net)


> She just threw the carton in the trash, with nary a backward glance or >look of sadness or remorse. I think that's what makes me believe this episode >was a major turning point for her. > >Kathy Kathy, I didn't see it that way at all. I saw it as a rather sad, but pragmatic acceptance of things as they are. She had done her best. Rita "Love will build a bridge . . . . Hmm, wish it would build me a patio."

1998-10-01 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (kdwatkins2@aol.com)


>True. But it seemed to me that she just took the opportunity presented her >to 'show' Greg what Section is all about. Also, at the end, when Greg was >being taken back to the car, she did look somewhat sad while she stood in >the driveway. > >Suzita >> > You're absolutely right. But what really left an impression on me was the tag, when she drained the last of the milk from the carton with Greg's picture on it. She just threw the carton in the trash, with nary a backward glance or look of sadness or remorse. I think that's what makes me believe this episode was a major turning point for her. Kathy

1998-10-01 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (Suzita <SUGEO@worldnet.att.net>)


KDWatkins2 wrote in message <19980930204205.13634.00004011@ng-fc2.aol.com>... > >>True. But it seemed to me that she just took the opportunity presented her >>to 'show' Greg what Section is all about. Also, at the end, when Greg was >>being taken back to the car, she did look somewhat sad while she stood in >>the driveway. >> >>Suzita >>> >> > >You're absolutely right. But what really left an impression on me was the tag, >when she drained the last of the milk from the carton with Greg's picture on >it. She just threw the carton in the trash, with nary a backward glance or >look of sadness or remorse. I think that's what makes me believe this episode >was a major turning point for her. > >Kathy Yes, I forgot about that. I think I would have reacted the same way. Self-protect mode all the way. Suzita >

1998-10-02 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (kdwatkins2@aol.com)


>> She just threw the carton in the trash, with nary a backward glance or >>look of sadness or remorse. I think that's what makes me believe this >episode >>was a major turning point for her. >> >>Kathy > >Kathy, I didn't see it that way at all. I saw it as a rather sad, but >pragmatic acceptance of things as they are. She had done her best. >Rita > > Rita, ICAM. That's exactly the point I was making. I think it was a major turning point for Nikita to show pragmatic acceptance, rather than continuing to tilt at windmills. I'm probably not doing a good job of articulating. Last night, I finally got my hot little hands on a tape containing Season 1 episodes (I joined the bandwagon at the beginning of Season 2). After an all-night LFN marathon, my brain's on automatic pilot. Kathy, who's planning to do it all again tonight

1998-10-02 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (threee@aol.combust.org)


>I think even Nikita can only be a "bleeding heart" so far. >She gave Greg every opportunity to see Section for what it was and >leave, even at some risk to herself. He chose to ignore her advice so >I think that, though she was saddened by it, she did her job knowing >that he brought it on himself. You are SO right. I don't think Nikita could even get close to her angst for the innocent on ths one because Greg wasn't an innocent. He caused his own demise. But I do think that this is the episode where she finally starts to "get" section. Elizabeth Chambers ThreeE@aol.com ************************ "Bubble, what is your job?" "What's me what?" "What is it you do?" "I don't really know...get paid." AB-FAB

1998-10-02 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (rita7@pacbell.net)


>I think it was a major >turning point for Nikita to show pragmatic acceptance, rather than continuing >to tilt at windmills. Good way to put it. Rita "Love will build a bridge . . . . Hmm, wish it would build me a patio."

1998-10-02 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (va_linda@my-dejanews.com)


> Melissa, I agree. And I venture to think that is what the writers > were aiming for. The first two seasons have been about Nikita's > warring against Section, refusing to accept that this was where she > was going to be. In season one we see her constantly refusing to > accept and fighting like a butterfly trapped in a jar, Rita that is a really good analogy! A butterfly trapped in a jar describes her very well. va -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

1998-10-04 00:00:00 - Re: An honest to God LFN question - (cara <trixu@yahoo.com>)


Pianolds1 wrote: > > I think, as with all things, she evolved slowly. The beginning was on the > first episode where she saved Michael from being shot. From there it was a > constant process of getting to know more of the operatives and learning what > it's like to be part of a team. > > Gail I also think the arc set the ground work for her evolution. Remember Walter saying that Jurgen has helped ops and that he also has destroyed them. I think that Jurgen helped Nikita in many ways. He made her think for herself, something that she was too afraid to so last season. In away he cut the tie that binded Nikita to Michael. It seemed she was a lot more independant after Jurgen finished with her. ITA that it has been a gradual process. cara~