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1998-10-01 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (granvia@aol.com)


Okay, va, do you like dark meat or white? < G > <snip> >Well! Went back and re-watched with your thoughts in mind and you know it did >seem like when he asked her if it was over he could have meant killing him! >And then you just signed our death warrants by not doing it. Now I am >conflicted and confused.lol.. but certianly not ruling out that you guys are >right and I am way off mark with this, actually leaning more towards you all >being right! Geez, I just added one more hole for myself to the swiss cheese >otherwise known as the arc. > >va " Michael is the moon to Nikita's tide." gvd

1998-10-01 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (khimera@my-dejanews.com)


In article <6v0sph$qbl$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, va_linda@my-dejanews.com wrote: > Colin he made that statement right after Nikita told him that Jurgen would > not hurt them. Not directly after seeing him come back "alive". I thought he > meant by trusting Jurgen she had signed their death warrant. Still I am > thinking I may be wrong on that. I am still pretty conflicted and mimi > posted a very good response in the other direction over at WB that really has > me up in the air. But I am certainly not going to rule out that you are > right, I guess I am still trying to make sense of it! Frankly that never made sense to me and in my efforts to fill the holes one could drive the B1Bomber thru I attributed it to him saying once again Nikita made a mistake in his opinion in choosing to trust Jurgen. Because Michael saying to Nikita *handle it* with the unspoken implication to kill Jurgen just made no sense what so ever.For one how would they explain Jurgen's demise? Secondly this is Nikita he's talking to she's in this predicament because she couldn't kill to start with and I hadn't seen anything within the episodes personally or found any indications what Michael saw either to suggest she had changed drastically enough to kill in cold blood. So logically it made no sense <g>..And I went with the belief that surely the PTB were not leaning toward Michael implying Nikita kill because it was an ill conceived plot device. -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

1998-10-01 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (LZHU24A@prodigy.com)


>Colin he made that statement right after Nikita told him that Jurgen would >not hurt them. Not directly after seeing him come back "alive". I thought he >meant by trusting Jurgen she had signed their death warrant. Still I am >thinking I may be wrong on that. I am still pretty conflicted and mimi >posted a very good response in the other direction over at WB that really has >me up in the air. But I am certainly not going to rule out that you are >right, I guess I am still trying to make sense of it! > >va I've been real confused by all of this also. I cannot imagine though that Michael would expect Nikita to just pull out a knife during training and stab the guy to death. Makes no sense. What explanation would she have for doing this? Also I don't think she would go through with it and can't imagine Michael thinking that she would go through with this. But the way the conversation went it certainly seems like that is what they were talking about. Maybe the writer's wanted us to take this what ever way we wanted. Who knows! Lenore

1998-10-01 00:00:00 - va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (va_linda@my-dejanews.com)


Ok this is for all you guys I have been debating back and forth with over whether Michael wanted Nikita to try and kill Jurgen when he told her to do whatever it takes. While I did not get that original impression myself, I saw that several people on the WB board and this NG mention that they for sure thought he did and why they felt that way. I decided to pull out my spec ops tape and re-watch the scene specifically with your thoughts in mind. I will say that rewatching the jerkster was awful! I was hoping since I was in an especially objective frame of mind..lol that I would not be so turned off by his character. Didn't happen, he made my skin crawl and thank goodness he is dead! No offense to those who liked him, just my humble opinion. But enough of that here goes... Ok I am feeling a tiny bit dense because here was my honest to goodness first impression of that scene... When Michael asked Nikita if it was over I thought he meant her evaluation, cetainly not killing jurgen. She said..he wont hurt us and he replied ..you just signed our death warrents..I thought he meant the she just signed their death warrants by trusting Jurgen with the truth. Honestly surprised the heck out of me when she showed up with the knife and that is how I viewed that scene. Well! Went back and re-watched with your thoughts in mind and you know it did seem like when he asked her if it was over he could have meant killing him! And then you just signed our death warrants by not doing it. Now I am conflicted and confused.lol.. but certianly not ruling out that you guys are right and I am way off mark with this, actually leaning more towards you all being right! Geez, I just added one more hole for myself to the swiss cheese otherwise known as the arc. va -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

1998-10-01 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (Colin Whipple <colincpaNOSPAM@soca.com>)


va_linda@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <6v0f98$7l0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... > >Well! Went back and re-watched with your thoughts in mind and you know it did >seem like when he asked her if it was over he could have meant killing him! >And then you just signed our death warrants by not doing it. If I recall that scene correctly, he made that statement right after he saw Jurgen walk by, still alive. I don't see what his "death warrant" statement could have meant, other than an expression of surprise at still seeing Jurgen alive. Colin Now I am >conflicted and confused.lol.. but certianly not ruling out that you guys are >right and I am way off mark with this, actually leaning more towards you all >being right! Geez, I just added one more hole for myself to the swiss cheese >otherwise known as the arc. > >va >

1998-10-01 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (va_linda@my-dejanews.com)


> If I recall that scene correctly, he made that statement right after he saw > Jurgen walk by, still alive. I don't see what his "death warrant" statement > could have meant, other than an expression of surprise at still seeing > Jurgen alive. > > Colin Colin he made that statement right after Nikita told him that Jurgen would not hurt them. Not directly after seeing him come back "alive". I thought he meant by trusting Jurgen she had signed their death warrant. Still I am thinking I may be wrong on that. I am still pretty conflicted and mimi posted a very good response in the other direction over at WB that really has me up in the air. But I am certainly not going to rule out that you are right, I guess I am still trying to make sense of it! va va -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

1998-10-02 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (dentav@aol.com)


Traci, one of the fairest and kindest maidens in all of Webland.... I found a post that I posted on this topic back in January. I found this to be a huge plot hole in an otherwise excellent episode. How was she going to explain what happened and what would she do with the body. But then the light went off in my head. The reason it makes NO sense is because it was NOT supposed to. It was to illustrate to us, the viewers, how far gone her thought process had gone awry and Michael's as well. They were desparate and acting out of fear. That is why Jurgen said to her 'Section will know it wasn't an accident' to which she replied 'I don't give a damn what Section thinks' and proceeded to lunge towards him with the knife. The whole scene and the nonsensicalness of it was contrived to prove a point. That the desperation level was completely overboard. Either that or a mack truck ran through the office... Denise

1998-10-02 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (va_linda@my-dejanews.com)


Maybe the writer's wanted us to take this what ever way we > wanted. Who knows! > Lenore Lenore I'm really with you at this point. I have read both sides and they both make really really good points but neither version really makes good sense. I think they may have delibertly left it open for the viewer to decide and come up with their own scenario. There have just been too good of arguments posted each way. I have tried to get to the bottom of it but the harder I try the further I get away! va > > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

1998-10-02 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (va_linda@my-dejanews.com)


> Either that or a mack truck ran through the office... > > Denise Denise you have made some really good points on this but I have read so much good points on each side I have to go with the mack truck! va :o) > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

1998-10-02 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (ttboyles@aol.com)


Denise wrote: >Traci, one of the fairest and kindest maidens >in all of Webland.... Thanks Denise for the kind words! Ain't necessarily true of course, but I'm glad you think so!!! >The whole scene and the nonsensicalness of >it was contrived to prove a point. >That the desperation level was completely >overboard. >Either that or a mack truck ran through the >office... LOL! That makes some sense...they were pretty desperate. I just can't think of a single thing besides "kill" that he could have meant. It must have been a very big mack truck!! Traci

1998-10-02 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - ("Colin L. Whipple" <colincpaNOSPAM@soca.com>)


TTBOYLES wrote in message <19981002111155.25543.00002260@ng128.aol.com>... > >Denise wrote: >>The whole scene and the nonsensicalness of >it was contrived to prove a point. > >>That the desperation level was completely >overboard. > >>Either that or a mack truck ran through the >office... > > >LOL! That makes some sense...they were pretty desperate. I just can't think >of a single thing besides "kill" that he could have meant. > >It must have been a very big mack truck!! It could be that the writers just did not think through the implications. Colin

1998-10-02 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (Heather <hlsX@Xwest-server.com>)


Dentav wrote: > How was she going to explain what happened and what would she do with the body. > > But then the light went off in my head. The reason it makes NO sense is > because it was NOT supposed to. It was to illustrate to us, the viewers, how > far gone her thought process had gone awry and Michael's as well. > > They were desparate and acting out of fear. That is why Jurgen said to her > 'Section will know it wasn't an accident' to which she replied 'I don't give a > damn what Section thinks' and proceeded to lunge towards him with the knife. > > The whole scene and the nonsensicalness of it was contrived to prove a point. > That the desperation level was completely overboard. > > Either that or a mack truck ran through the office... > > Denise now that does make sense. i seem to be one of the few that liked the episode and that part of it just left a bad taste in my mouth. too many "what the hell" 's in that part of it. thank you for that insight. thats the only thing that has made sense of it all. also since we are sorta on that topic: i read a lot of you didnt like J because he lied to her from the beginning and you dont know if he will continue to lie. i think in that scene (where nikita pulled out the knife) he lied to her because he was trying to save his ass. if someone pulls a knife on you, you will say anything so you will not get hurt. -- For a non-spam reply please remove both X's. Thank you and good night.

1998-10-02 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (va_linda@my-dejanews.com)


In article <19981001181605.06997.00004742@ng111.aol.com>, granvia@aol.com (Granvia) wrote: > > Okay, va, do you like dark meat or white? > > < G > Hey as long as its tender and juicy who cares?! va :-D -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

1998-10-02 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (ttboyles@aol.com)


Okay, now *I'm* confused. On first viewing, I thought Michael wanted Nikita to kill Jurgen. But if he *wasn't* implying for her to kill Jurgen, which didn't make much sense logically...what makes Michael believe she *would* or *could* kill him and how would she ever explain that!?!...then WHAT was he implying she should do to "take care of him"? Traci who isn't sure she didn't confuse people any worse with that jumble of words!

1998-10-03 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (va_linda@my-dejanews.com)


> LOL! That makes some sense...they were pretty desperate. I just can't think > of a single thing besides "kill" that he could have meant. > > It must have been a very big mack truck!! > > Traci In charity Operations told Michael "whatever it takes" with reference to Nikita sleeping with Alec Chandler. Also Michael has used seduction a few times himself to accomplish a mission and in DD to save Nikita. I agree that was a damn big mack truck. va > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

1998-10-03 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (ttboyles@aol.com)


va writes: <In charity Operations told Michael "whatever it takes" with reference to Nikita sleeping with Alec Chandler. Also Michael has used seduction a few times himself to accomplish a mission and in DD to save Nikita.> This is true, I know what you're saying, but I don't think Michael was very comfortable with that, and I believe he was relieved that she didn't have to go that far, tho he would have accepted it if she had. He would have accepted it in this case too, but my question now is what would seduction of Jurgen have accomplished here? Would that have been enough to assure Jurgen's silence with what he knew? No, I don't think so. Wouldn't it have had to be something more permanent? As usual when watching LFN, i'm left with more questions than answers! LOL! Traci Who hopes that huge mack truck doesn't come roaring past her house!

1998-10-03 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (va_linda@my-dejanews.com)


Nikita.> > > This is true, I know what you're saying, but I don't think Michael was very > comfortable with that, and I believe he was relieved that she didn't have to go > that far, tho he would have accepted it if she had. He would have accepted it > in this case too, but my question now is what would seduction of Jurgen have > accomplished here? Would that have been enough to assure Jurgen's silence with > what he knew? No, I don't think so. Wouldn't it have had to be something more > permanent? As usual when watching LFN, i'm left with more questions than > answers! LOL! > > Traci > Who hopes that huge mack truck doesn't come roaring past her house! Hi Traci! Ok, seducing him could have gotten him on her side and he would have covered for her with Ops and Maddie (which wound up happening) or would have been so taken with her he wouldn't really look too hard for the truth. Now if Michael wanted him permanently silent he would have let him run into the building just before it exploded and let him explode with it. Instead he shot him in the leg and saved his life. It would have been the perfect opportunity, Jurgen's com was down, no one was looking, Michael could have easily said he was a casuality of the mission,didn't see him heading in that direction yet he chose to save his life instead. Why would he do that if he wanted him dead? And the seduction technique worked. Jurgen liked Nikita and did cover for her. Who is to say whether he would have eventually used it against them, we can only speculate. Also really good points you made, as I said before neither version really makes good sense to me. I am certainly not 100% sure of anything now. va :o) > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

1998-10-03 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (rita7@pacbell.net)


> >It could be that the writers just did not think through the >implications. > >Colin Good point. Rita "Love will build a bridge . . . . Hmm, wish it would build me a patio."

1998-10-05 00:00:00 - Re: va's eating crow! About Michael asking Nikita to kill Jurgen! - (Heather <hlsX@Xwest-server.com>)


TTBOYLES wrote: > but my question now is what would seduction of Jurgen have > accomplished here? Would that have been enough to assure Jurgen's silence with > what he knew? also i dont think seducing jurgen would have done much for long. the next time jurgen got a bit horny he would go to nikita and tell her that he wants some or hes going to ops about her situation. what is she suppose to do...keep her legs above her head when Jurgen comes around?? i just dont see that happening for the long run. -- For a non-spam reply please remove both X's. Thank you and good night.