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1997-02-03 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (keppler@iafrica.com)


Well I'm getting really confused because I thought the real Tom Veil was the "Doppleganger" He was a photographer, remember. The girl who got wasted in his studio was there looking for photographs of a house and then got cold feet when she saw "Hidden Agenda." Also this Tom was not afraid of relationships - in fact if anything he overdid it with the ladies - his Secretary suggested they post a map of his home on the ladies page of the newspaper as "Tom's Love Nest." But then whose photo was "Hidden Agenda" ? Tom I or Tom II.

1997-02-03 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (Sean <tweintz@mail.idt.net>)


keppler@iafrica.com wrote: > > Well I'm getting really confused because I thought the real Tom Veil was the > "Doppleganger" > > He was a photographer, remember. The girl who got wasted in his studio was > there looking for photographs of a house and then got cold feet when she saw > "Hidden Agenda." > > Also this Tom was not afraid of relationships - in fact if anything he overdid > it with the ladies - his Secretary suggested they post a map of his home on the > ladies page of the newspaper as "Tom's Love Nest." > > But then whose photo was "Hidden Agenda" ? Tom I or Tom II. OOHH!!! I never even thought of this! Neat Idea! Cool concept! The doppleganger was the REAL TOM! To bad nobody thought of this and put it into the show before it was cancelled! BTW: Larry, if you're reading this, tell me please, did you ever have the whole story "straight" in your head as to who Tom was, what HA was, etc? or did you just make it up episode to episode as you went along? Will we ever know??? or am I doomed to a life of obsessive speculation? Sean

1997-02-04 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL is a fake concealing the truth* * * * * - (So & So <ameal@pop.sirius.com>)


Sean wrote: > > keppler@iafrica.com wrote: > > > > Well I'm getting really confused because I thought the real Tom Veil was the > > "Doppleganger" > > > > He was a photographer, remember. The girl who got wasted in his studio was > > there looking for photographs of a house and then got cold feet when she saw > > "Hidden Agenda." > > > > Also this Tom was not afraid of relationships - in fact if anything he overdid > > it with the ladies - his Secretary suggested they post a map of his home on the > > ladies page of the newspaper as "Tom's Love Nest." > > > > But then whose photo was "Hidden Agenda" ? Tom I or Tom II. > > OOHH!!! I never even thought of this! Neat Idea! Cool concept! The > doppleganger was the REAL TOM! To bad nobody thought of this and put it > into the show before it was cancelled! > > BTW: Larry, if you're reading this, tell me please, did you ever have > the whole story "straight" in your head as to who Tom was, what HA was, > etc? or did you just make it up episode to episode as you went along? > Will we ever know??? or am I doomed to a life of obsessive speculation? > > Sean I thought Tom Veil was the code name for an experiment the Gubmint was running to determine the extent of imposition of false identity..... The show seemed to come to a natural conclusion, although its unfortunate because there are so few TV programs that are able to entertain while numbing the senseless....

1997-02-05 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (chrgrfan@aol.com)


>BTW: Larry, if you're reading this, tell me please, did you ever have >the whole story "straight" in your head as to who Tom was, what HA was, >etc? or did you just make it up episode to episode as you went along? >Will we ever know??? or am I doomed to a life of obsessive speculation? Not to steal Larry's thunder, but just in case he's on vacation or something... Larry has stated in the past that he had no "book" as far as how the entire Tom Veil saga was going to end. He simply wanted to get across something about our identity and what makes us who we are. Are we who we think we are? Are we defined by others and what they think of us? How easily can our identity be taken away? I was somewhat disappointed to discover this for the first time, but as I look back, it really makes for a perfect scenario. This show operates on so many levels that it can appeal to a wide range of viewers. In some respects, I think that's why the show was eventually cancelled. It was just too much to handle for some people. They came in thinking they could easily define what the show was about, like they can with most other shows, and found that it was not quite so straightforward. The only thing is, I wish we could've discovered what all that breaking glass was about... ChargerFan (Paul Gottschlich) chrgrfan@aol.com P.S. Larry, if I screwed up in my evalution, please forgive me, and promptly put me in my place.

1997-02-05 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (lh@mindpspring.com)


In article <19970205082301.DAA02797@ladder01.news.aol.com>, chrgrfan@aol.com says... > Larry, if I screwed up in my evalution, please forgive me, and > promptly put me in my place. > > No, in fact it was so well stated that you can, from hereon in, speak for me all the time. I owe my mom a call and there's an unpleasant talk I need to have with my girlfriend. I'll email you with details. Thanks, Larry

1997-02-05 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (dquixotic@aol.com)


From: chrgrfan@aol.com (ChrgrFan) Date: 5 Feb 1997 08:23:38 GMT >Larry has stated in the past that he had no "book" as far as how the >entire Tom Veil saga was going to end. He simply wanted to get across >something about our identity and what makes us who we are. Are we who we >think we are? Are we defined by others and what they think of us? How >easily can our identity be taken away? > >I was somewhat disappointed to discover this for the first time, but as I >look back, it really makes for a perfect scenario. This show operates on >so many levels that it can appeal to a wide range of viewers. In some >respects, I think that's why the show was eventually cancelled. It was >just too much to handle for some people. They came in thinking they could >easily define what the show was about, like they can with most other >shows, and found that it was not quite so straightforward. For me, the attraction to Nowhere Man was in the exploration of issues of identity, self and all that existential stuff. I was less interested in who "They" were than in who Tom would discover himself to be. And I agree, the fact that the show was about such issues scared a lot of people. How many of us are really comfortable exploring the basic issue of who we are, at the heart of it all? For me, when I get that uncomfortable feeling, I keep watching (or reading, whatever), and try to find out what is making me so uncomfortable, and confront it. Well, I try to anyway. Any thoughts? Did anyone else get that squeemish feeling at times? Maybe that's why so many concentrate on the details of the show, who "They" are and so forth, so as not to confront these difficult issues. -- Dan

1997-02-05 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (tdavie@escape.ca)


In article <19970205152601.KAA12995@ladder01.news.aol.com>, dquixotic@aol.com (DQuixotic) wrote: >Any thoughts? Did anyone else get that squeemish feeling at times? Maybe >that's why so many concentrate on the details of the show, who "They" are >and so forth, so as not to confront these difficult issues. I ot that squeamish feeling from the first time I accidentally tuned it in at 2:30 am one night. It was what hooked me. Tom

1997-02-06 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (lh@mindpspring.com)


In article <19970206045900.XAA19176@ladder01.news.aol.com>, chrgrfan@aol.com says... > Hahahahaha! Ahhh...just looking to get in on the conversation. Sorry...I > promise it won't happen again. > > Respectfully, > > Paul Gottschlich (ChargerFan) > > Paul, Despite my joking, I was delighted with your response and meant it when I said that you said it "better than I." Feel free to continue. Larry

1997-02-06 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (chrgrfan@aol.com)


>No, in fact it was so well stated that you can, from hereon in, speak for >me all the time. I owe my mom a call and there's an unpleasant talk I >need to have with my girlfriend. I'll email you with details. Hahahahaha! Ahhh...just looking to get in on the conversation. Sorry...I promise it won't happen again. Respectfully, Paul Gottschlich (ChargerFan)

1997-02-07 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (chrgrfan@aol.com)


In article <19970205152601.KAA12995@ladder01.news.aol.com>, dquixotic@aol.com (DQuixotic) wrote: >Any thoughts? Did anyone else get that squeemish feeling at times? Maybe >that's why so many concentrate on the details of the show, who "They" are >and so forth, so as not to confront these difficult issues. Well, I can't say that I got any sqeamish feelings, but the show most certainly made me think about my identity, what it meant to me, and how I might feel if it were ever taken away. I can't remember any other medium ever being able to do such a thing. But as for why we concentrate on the "why" or the "conspiracy" part of the show: Well, I think it's just human nature. When it appears that such a huge travesty of justice has befallen someone, we want to know why, who, and how. It's just part of the curious nature of humans, IMHO. For myself, that is what made this show so exceedingly special. It worked on 2 levels. First, the easy one: What is the conspiracy up to? Why did they do this? How could they do this? Etc... And secondly, and perhaps more esoterically, Who are we? What defines us? How easily can that be taken away? How much of the physical world gives us our identity, and how much is within us? Either of these 2 ideas on their own could still make for good television. But what made NwM *great* television was the weaving together of both of these concepts. Unfortunately, however, it appears as though it was just this very dual concept of the show that got it cancelled. How incredibly unfortunate. ChargerFan (Paul Gottschlich) chrgrfan@aol.com

1997-02-10 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (Sean <tweintz@mail.idt.net>)


Thomas Davie wrote: > > In article <19970205152601.KAA12995@ladder01.news.aol.com>, dquixotic@aol.com (DQuixotic) wrote: > >Any thoughts? Did anyone else get that squeemish feeling at times? Maybe > >that's why so many concentrate on the details of the show, who "They" are > >and so forth, so as not to confront these difficult issues. > > I ot that squeamish feeling from the first time I accidentally tuned it in at > 2:30 am one night. It was what hooked me. > > Tom Sure as hell gave me the squeamish feeling too! Sean

1997-02-11 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (famousname@aol.com)


I hadn't seen Doppleganger and got to see it when we had our 2nd Nowhere Man party in Los Angeles recently. It really put the whole thing together for me. I would venture to say that the REAL Tom Veil was the photographer in Ohio. The Tom Veil with an identity crisis is merely a replica like the Senator played by Hal Linden. He is the perfect vehicle for an identity crisis. Since the REAL Tom Veil didn't seem to be the kind of guy to make mistakes (until he got killed--possibly?), I would say the real Tom Veil is the agent and our Tom Veil is a decoy for whoever is after the negatives (and by the way, he won't give them up). This explains a great number of things such as...who took pictures of Tom in S. America? who was the other Tom in Doppleganger? who was Allyson (a powerful agent with the Org singled out by the maker of the fake Tom Veil?) who was the Tom in the Gemini tape that our Tom could not recognize? why were the negatives not a true image? why was it that people seemed to know Tom (even in the FBI) and he didn't know them? Our Tom Veil is so much like a machine and so much like a human that we see the things he does and we know he is relentless in his pursuit for the truth and we don't know to look for anything other than a human being with his identity stripped away. Bravo Larry --Joseph Dowdy (joseph@who.net)

1997-02-12 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (chrgrfan@aol.com)


>The Tom Veil with an identity crisis is merely a replica like the Senator >played by Hal Linden. He is the perfect vehicle for an identity crisis. >Since the REAL Tom Veil didn't seem to be the kind of guy to make mistakes >(until he got killed--possibly?), I would say the real Tom Veil is the >agent and our Tom Veil is a decoy for whoever is after the negatives (and >by the way, he won't give them up). Good ideas, but I'm not quite with you. Here's why: 1) Why wouldn't the agent, having been given time to pursue whatever he needed to since a decoy was set up, not use the true negatives in a such a way that would expose the Organization? 2) This explanation doesn't explain why or how Tom was never killed outright in order to get the negatives. His importance (as stated by several Organization members throughout the series) becomes zero at this stage, regardless of whether or not the Organization thinks he's the "real" Tom Veil or not. The only possible explanation as to why the Organization thought TV was so important, and never tried to kill him (unless he got too close) is if he's one of the Organization's experiments. >This explains a great number of things such as...who took pictures of Tom >in S. America? who was the other Tom in Doppleganger? who was Allyson (a >powerful agent with the Org singled out by the maker of the fake Tom >Veil?) who was the Tom in the Gemini tape that our Tom could not >recognize? why were the negatives not a true image? why was it that people >seemed to know Tom (even in the FBI) and he didn't know them? All of these questions can also be explained with the idea that Tom was an FBI agent code-named Gemini, and was brainwashed by the Organization. What might make this even more plausable to you is the fact that all of the "replicas" seem to have some type of defect. In "It's Not Such a Wonderful Life", we learn that Allyson has a birthmark of some sort on her thigh. In "Forever Jung" we come to learn that she is a replica of some sort. Also, in "Stay Tuned" the main antagonist, although not determined to be a replica, is shown to have a birthmark on his neck. I would argue that the "other" Tom Veil is not really the original because of his strawberry birthmark. Great angle on how that episode fits into the larger scheme of things---I hope it sparks some interesting conversation. ~Paul

1997-02-14 00:00:00 - Larry Hertzog (was: THE REAL TOM VEIL) - (sean@delphi.glendon.yorku.ca)


Greetings... Larry Hertzog <lh@mindpspring.com> wrote: Lawrence Hertzog? As in creator (I am assuming you are the creator) of Nowhere Man? Wow! I regret that I have missed the rest of this thread. I would just like to say how much I enjoyed the show. Too bad it was cancelled. I thought it was one of the best shows on Television.��� I have a few questions, and I would be greatly honoured if you would be as so kind as to answer them. Please forgive me if others have asked these questions before on this Newsgroup, and you have answered them. How much influence did the all-powerful super secret organization of the Illuminatii have on your own creation of such? Where would have the story-line of Nowhere Man would have taken us if the show hadn't been cancelled? Did you ever plan to answer all the questions you raised, or were you just going to raise more and more questions and leave them hanging? When you created the show, and wrote a number of episodes, did you have all the answers yourself? Such as, who 'they' were. 'They' being the super-secret organization, or why they were doing what they were doing. Or did you just made it up as you went along, and had the story develop as you wrote it? Answers would come later as the character of Tom Veil developed. Did you have an ultimate resolution in mind in the end. One theory that I and a few friends of mine had while discussing the show was that Tom Viel was really the person referred to as 'The Director' (I believe it was the Director - Well, the top agent running everything), or Tom Viel was a created copy of the Director, and the organization wanted to know how much the 'copy' knew. I would like to personally thank Mr. Hertzog for creating such wonderful entertainment. I credit him for helping to create this current trend in conspiracy related entertainment as of late. -- Cajun Nights Mush /> Later... Krynn.Solace.mh.se 7373 /< Who Wants to Live Forever? [\\\\\\\\\\(O):::<======================================- Http://www.geocities.com/ \< Blackthorne@delphi.glendon.yorku.ca BourbonStreet/1373/ \> Blackthorne.

1997-02-18 00:00:00 - Re: THE REAL TOM VEIL - (Keith 'Tak' Takayesu <skydiver@pobox.com>)


Personally, I kinda think that this show is similar to 'The Prisoner'. The only difference is that he is a 'prisoner' in the open world. He has had his identity removed, like the Prisoner was. I think that we would eventually find out that Tom Veil is actually the head of the Organization, and is testing the effectiveness of the system by allowing himself to be brain-washed. This would explain his importance to the Organization, and why they cannot kill him outright. -- Blue Skies! Tak (Camera-Flyer, Videographer, Photographer, and all-around nice guy) Tak's Freefall Services skydiver@pobox.com, skydiver@bigfoot.com Come visit Tak's World at http://www.cdnsport.ca/skydive/