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1999-09-10 00:00:00 - "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - ("Robert F. Golaszewski" <mildred@prodigy.net>)


An interesting point I wonder if anyone ever noticed. I remember that Harlan Ellison ended up complaining that the film "Terminator" was based on his script for "Soldier", and even was added as a credit with "acknowledging the works of Harlan Ellison" in the videotape release. However, anyone notice the plot of Terminator is in fact much more similar to "The Man Who was Never Born"? "Terminator" is actually more of a rip-off of that OL episode, because the basic plot line revolved around someone going back into the past to commit a murder to prevent a disaster from happening in the future. -- -Robert F. Golaszewski "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." -Voltaire Visit http://third-plateau.lycaeum.org for the best general interest site on the Net about DXM (dextromethorphan) used recreationally. Also, The DXM FAQ is at www.frognet.net/dxm If you want to know about DXM: READ IT!

1999-09-11 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - (Nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com)


In article <7rc5tr$8o74$1@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>, "Robert F. Golaszewski" <mildred@prodigy.net> wrote: > An interesting point I wonder if anyone ever noticed. I remember that > Harlan Ellison ended up complaining that the film "Terminator" was based > on his script for "Soldier", and even was added as a credit with > "acknowledging the works of Harlan Ellison" in the videotape release. Ellison successfully sued Cameron for the ripping off of his ideas. (How is "Soldier," by the way? I haven't it -- at least not since childhood.) I'm glad Ellison won. Cameron churns out disgusting, special-effects-driven, dreadful dialogue-laden travesties of filmmaking. He's a despicable hack who's deluded himself into thinking, on the basis of pandering to the lowest-common-denominator, that he's "king of the world." Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

1999-09-11 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - ("Robert F. Golaszewski" <mildred@prodigy.net>)


<Nyarlathotep1@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:7rcidn$ejd$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > In article <7rc5tr$8o74$1@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>, > "Robert F. Golaszewski" <mildred@prodigy.net> wrote: > > An interesting point I wonder if anyone ever noticed. I remember > that > > Harlan Ellison ended up complaining that the film "Terminator" was > based > > on his script for "Soldier", and even was added as a credit with > > "acknowledging the works of Harlan Ellison" in the videotape release. > > Ellison successfully sued Cameron for the ripping off of his ideas. > (How is "Soldier," by the way? I haven't it -- at least not since > childhood.) I'm glad Ellison won. Cameron churns out disgusting, > special-effects-driven, dreadful dialogue-laden travesties of > filmmaking. He's a despicable hack who's deluded himself into thinking, > on the basis of pandering to the lowest-common-denominator, that he's > "king of the world." Actually, in this case, I say Ellison was basically full of shit. Yeah, Cameron was a thief, but Ellison wasn't the victim. The OL episode that was *really* ripped off was "The Man Who Was Never Born", which Ellison didn't write. "Soldier" is about 2 soldiers from a future Earth who end up being transported in time, and fight each other. However, the similarities are MUCH greater to "The Man Who Was Never Born". In that episode, an astronaut goes through a time warp to a find that the future Earth is horrible, because a scientist from his day invented a bacteria that destroyed civilization. The astronaut, along with a disfigured man from the future, return through the time warp to the 20th century, on a mission to stop the *mother* of the scientist who was responsible for destroying the future from ever giving birth to him. The Terminator has two men from the future (one a cyborg) going back in time. One to stop the mother of a man who was a threat to the future from giving birth to him, thus "saving" the future Earth (of course, it is the *cyborgs* who are threatened, not the ordinary humans), and the other to make sure this woman isn't harmed (he has a different idea of how to "save" humanity.) Look at the similarities: two men go back in time, and endeavor to stop a woman from giving birth to man who will alter the future. The similarity with "Soldier" is just that two warriors from the future go back in time, but the plot of what they do in the past is nothing like Terminator. In "The Man Who Was Never Born", while neither are soldiers, the mission they embark on is exactly the same as in Terminator: going after the mother of a man who is significant in the future to alter the time line so that it is changed. While I agree many of Cameron's works are less than splendid, I feel that "Terminator" is the big exception. One of the best science fiction films in recent years, particularly as an action film. OK, the basic idea for the script was copied from others, although if we really get down to it, the idea of time travel and the implications of altering the time line go way back in science fiction, before Ellison or the Outer Limits. -- -Robert F. Golaszewski "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." -Voltaire Visit http://third-plateau.lycaeum.org for the best general interest site on the Net about DXM (dextromethorphan) used recreationally. Also, The DXM FAQ is at www.frognet.net/dxm If you want to know about DXM: READ IT!

1999-09-11 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - (stoodin101@aol.com)


>How is "Soldier," by the way? I haven't it -- at least not since >childhood. It's only o.k. Ellison's very important third act was rewritten by Seeleg Lester and lost a lot of characterization in the process. Ansara does a good job as Qarlo, but Nolan is awful in his part, and legend has it that it is because he couldn't hear, and was reading his lines off cue cards to boot. " The one test of the really weird is just this -- whether or not there be excited in the reader a profound sense of dread, and of contact with unknown spheres and powers...." --- H.P. Lovecraft

1999-09-11 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - ("Robert F. Golaszewski" <mildred@prodigy.net>)


Brian Barjenbruch <brianb1@home.com> wrote in message news:110919991746149899%brianb1@home.com... > > It's only o.k. Ellison's very important third act was rewritten by Seeleg > > Lester and lost a lot of characterization in the process. Ansara does a good > > job as Qarlo, but Nolan is awful in his part, and legend has it that it is > > because he couldn't hear, and was reading his lines off cue cards to boot. > > I have one extremely minor question about this episode... > > Qarlo has serial *letters* instead of a serial *number*. I heard a lot > of criticism about this plot point because it was alleged that serial > letters would have "fewer combinations." (I forget who said this but I > remember that phrase being used.) Now, unless I am missing some > obscure technicality here, there would be far MORE combinations with > serial letters, because there are 26 letters and only 10 digits... You are correct. Serial letters would have far more combinations, and that criticism would be absurd. However, this really wouldn't make much difference. Assuming each soldier had his own unique serial number/letters, it wouldn't take a string of all that many of either even if the army had a huge number of soldiers. If the army had one *trillion* soldiers, it would only take a string of 13 numbers. With letters, it would be a smaller string. -- -Robert F. Golaszewski "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." -Voltaire Visit http://third-plateau.lycaeum.org for the best general interest site on the Net about DXM (dextromethorphan) used recreationally. Also, The DXM FAQ is at www.frognet.net/dxm If you want to know about DXM: READ IT!

1999-09-11 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - ("Robert F. Golaszewski" <mildred@prodigy.net>)


StoOdin101 <stoodin101@aol.com> wrote in message news:19990911212649.12741.00005712@ng-co1.aol.com... > >Qarlo has serial *letters* instead of a serial *number*. I heard a lot > >of criticism about this plot point because it was alleged that serial > >letters would have "fewer combinations." > > Harlan Ellison said that in a fit of pique over the changes to his script. He > is, of course, wrong. You have correctly pointed out that there would be MORE > combinations. But Ellison could care less about scientific/mathematical reality > when he's writing: check out his definition of "half-life" in DEMON WITH A > GLASS HAND. MAN, is he offbase on that one. Not only that, but in the future serial "letters" would make sense. The reason in the past we have used serial "numbers" it that, when sorting by hand, humans find numbers much easier to sort by ascending or descending sequence. This was set in the future, where likely computers would have become common. Computers can sort letter sequences as easily as numbers. -- -Robert F. Golaszewski "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." -Voltaire Visit http://third-plateau.lycaeum.org for the best general interest site on the Net about DXM (dextromethorphan) used recreationally. Also, The DXM FAQ is at www.frognet.net/dxm If you want to know about DXM: READ IT!

1999-09-12 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - (stoodin101@aol.com)


>Qarlo has serial *letters* instead of a serial *number*. I heard a lot >of criticism about this plot point because it was alleged that serial >letters would have "fewer combinations." Harlan Ellison said that in a fit of pique over the changes to his script. He is, of course, wrong. You have correctly pointed out that there would be MORE combinations. But Ellison could care less about scientific/mathematical reality when he's writing: check out his definition of "half-life" in DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND. MAN, is he offbase on that one. " The one test of the really weird is just this -- whether or not there be excited in the reader a profound sense of dread, and of contact with unknown spheres and powers...." --- H.P. Lovecraft

1999-09-12 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - (jrp32@NOSPAM.bellsouth.net)


On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:13:33 GMT, Brian Barjenbruch <brianb1@home.com> wrote: >> >Qarlo has serial *letters* instead of a serial *number*. I heard a lot >> >of criticism about this plot point because it was alleged that serial >> >letters would have "fewer combinations." >> >> Harlan Ellison said that in a fit of pique over the changes to his script. He >> is, of course, wrong. You have correctly pointed out that there would be MORE >> combinations. But Ellison could care less about scientific/mathematical >> reality >> when he's writing: check out his definition of "half-life" in DEMON WITH A >> GLASS HAND. MAN, is he offbase on that one. > >I have never been able to stand Harlan Ellison...he may have some >writing talent but he comes across as the most self-indulgent >egotistical loud-mouthed arrogant ass I have ever heard of. Anyone who >doubts this--read his intro to the "City on the Edge of Forever" script >book he wrote a couple of years ago. > Well Brian, i DID read that White Wolf (IIRC) edition of the "City" script which consisted mostly of Ellison's childish rantings over a thirty year old incident of small import. It drastically lowered my opinion of him as a person, not as a writer. IMO, as a writer, anyone who could write shatterday deserves my esteem....as a writer. >Makes me glad that he never managed to get his DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND >sequel made. That would have been an episode of Babylon 5 where Trent >finds himself aboard the station...YUCK! I believe JMS said "well harlan....is just harlan". He did have a cameo in one episode, but then JMS did too. Now when does the new broadcast season for OL start? Anyone know yet?

1999-09-12 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - (stoodin101@aol.com)


>Makes me glad that he never managed to get his DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND >sequel made. That would have been an episode of Babylon 5 where Trent >finds himself aboard the station DEMON ON THE RUN. Actually I think the story of Trent, like the story of Gully Foyle or Ichabod Crane or Walter Mitty, is finished. Sure, there is plenty of room for a sequel, but not everything needs a sequel. It would have been interesting to see how the Kyben fit into the B5 universe, though. Limits did a good job with Ellison/Van Vogt's HUMAN OPERATORS this season (so much so that the phrase "Too vicious" has entered my vocabulary, as in "this job is TOO VICIOUS!" when something isn't going according to plan); I hope they tackle at least one of the Kyben stories, but no sequels to DEMON, please. LIFE HUTCH or RUN FOR THE STARS would do. " The one test of the really weird is just this -- whether or not there be excited in the reader a profound sense of dread, and of contact with unknown spheres and powers...." --- H.P. Lovecraft

1999-09-14 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - (Trancser <Trancser@Freenet.Nether.Net>)


> > > Ellison successfully sued Cameron for the ripping off of his ideas. > (How is "Soldier," by the way? I haven't it -- at least not since > childhood.) I'm glad Ellison won. Cameron churns out disgusting, > special-effects-driven, dreadful dialogue-laden travesties of > filmmaking. He's a despicable hack who's deluded himself into thinking, > on the basis of pandering to the lowest-common-denominator, that he's > "king of the world." > I'm not sure how his films totally suck? I thought Cameron gave THE TERMINATOR a really gloomy holocaustic look, as well as TERMINATOR II: Judgement Day. And I actually enjoyed TITANIC, even being skeptical and doubting it before (ok, I watched on it HBO instead of seeing it in theatres, but like I say, I really doubted it) hand. What about THE ABYSS ... nice story, and excellent effects in the right places. Oh well, anyway, thats my oppinion I think Spielberg and Howard can also do kick-butt movies with just the right amount of sfx, in just the right places alot of times

1999-09-24 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - ("Robert F. Golaszewski" <mildred@prodigy.net>)


wickwick <wickwick@duh.duh> wrote in message news:37eeda48.46175796@news.1stConnect.com... > On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:16:45 -0400, "Robert F. Golaszewski" > <mildred@prodigy.net> wrote: > >> Qarlo has serial *letters* instead of a serial *number*. I heard a lot > >> of criticism about this plot point because it was alleged that serial > >> letters would have "fewer combinations." (I forget who said this but I > >> remember that phrase being used.) Now, unless I am missing some > >> obscure technicality here, there would be far MORE combinations with > >> serial letters, because there are 26 letters and only 10 digits... > > You are correct. Serial letters would have far more combinations, and > >that criticism would be absurd. However, this really wouldn't make much > >difference. Assuming each soldier had his own unique serial number/letters, > >it wouldn't take a string of all that many of either even if the army had a > >huge number of soldiers. If the army had one *trillion* soldiers, it > >would only take a string of 13 numbers. With letters, it would be a smaller > >string. > > > >-Robert F. Golaszewski > > It would make more sense to assign fields to the serial designation > that stood for various qualities of the soldier... type and degree of > training, special abilities, I.Q., blood type, etc., with a last field > to differentiate between soldiers of equal quality. Not necessarily. This would require reassigning a new serial designation every time the soldier got promoted, was certified with new abilities, etc. Also, assuming in the future all was computerized, just enter the serial designation into the computer and that would all pop up. -- -Robert F. Golaszewski "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." -Voltaire Visit http://third-plateau.lycaeum.org for the best general interest site on the Net about DXM (dextromethorphan) used recreationally. Also, The DXM FAQ is at www.frognet.net/dxm If you want to know about DXM: READ IT!

1999-09-25 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - (apbluthman@aol.com)


From: Alvin P. Bluthman apbluthman@aol.com Responding to 'Hey, did I just invent something?" question from wickwich@duh.duh: Yes, you did. However, assuming that Qarlo's serial letters were merely a string of eight randomly-assigned letters, that used up all possible eight-letter strings, then computing the maximun possible size of Qarlo's army: twenty-six to the eighth power, or 2.0883 to the eleventh, more then twenty trillion. And, as for remembering a random sequence of letters or numbers, isn't it nontheless easier to remember (with some practice) eight letters than eleven or twelve numbers? >Subject: Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits >From: wickwick@duh.duh (wickwick) >Date: Fri, 24 September 1999 05:00 PM EDT >Message-id: <37eeda48.46175796@news.1stConnect.com> > >On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:16:45 -0400, "Robert F. Golaszewski" ><mildred@prodigy.net> wrote: > >>> Qarlo has serial *letters* instead of a serial *number*. I heard a lot >>> of criticism about this plot point because it was alleged that serial >>> letters would have "fewer combinations." (I forget who said this but I >>> remember that phrase being used.) Now, unless I am missing some >>> obscure technicality here, there would be far MORE combinations with >>> serial letters, because there are 26 letters and only 10 digits... >> >> You are correct. Serial letters would have far more combinations, and >>that criticism would be absurd. However, this really wouldn't make much >>difference. Assuming each soldier had his own unique serial number/letters, >>it wouldn't take a string of all that many of either even if the army had a >>huge number of soldiers. If the army had one *trillion* soldiers, it >>would only take a string of 13 numbers. With letters, it would be a smaller >>string. >> >>-Robert F. Golaszewski > >It would make more sense to assign fields to the serial designation >that stood for various qualities of the soldier... type and degree of >training, special abilities, I.Q., blood type, etc., with a last field >to differentiate between soldiers of equal quality. > >w > >'Hey, did I just invent something?'

1999-09-25 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - ("Robert F. Golaszewski" <mildred@prodigy.net>)


APBluthman <apbluthman@aol.com> wrote in message news:19990924233633.24009.00002199@ng-fa1.aol.com... > However, assuming that Qarlo's serial letters were merely a string of eight > randomly-assigned letters, that used up all possible eight-letter strings, then > computing the maximun possible size of Qarlo's army: twenty-six to the eighth > power, or 2.0883 to the eleventh, more then twenty trillion. > > And, as for remembering a random sequence of letters or numbers, isn't it > nontheless easier to remember (with some practice) eight letters than eleven or > twelve numbers? For a human, a shorter string of letters should be easier to remember. Also, computers can sort an manipulate letter strings as well as numbers, and presumably in the future this army is computerized. Thus, the shorter, the better. -- -Robert F. Golaszewski "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him." -Voltaire Visit http://third-plateau.lycaeum.org for the best general interest site on the Net about DXM (dextromethorphan) used recreationally. Also, The DXM FAQ is at www.frognet.net/dxm If you want to know about DXM: READ IT!

1999-09-25 00:00:00 - Re: "Terminator" and the Outer Limits - (apbluthman@aol.com)


Wish to correct a prior statement. 26 to the eighth power exceeds 200 billion, not twenty trillion.. 2.0883 to the eleventh = 208,830,000,000 Think about the size of the army suggested by Qarlo's eight serial letters. Then remember the size of the world population, just under 6 billion. Also, that an army of eight billion would need only seven serial letters. Alvin P. Bluthman apbluthman@aol.com