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1997-09-02 00:00:00 - Remake Nominations - ("Maggie M")


THE NEW OUTER LIMITS has been all new original episodes, with two exceptions. In the first season, they did a remake of "I, Robot". In this last season, they did a remake of "A Feasibility Study". Take some time before answering my next questions. What ep. from the original series do you think should be the next one to be a remake? More importantly, why and what could they do to update / add / make it better than the original? (In "I, Robot" the hook was stunt casting. In "A Feasibility Study" another alien race was added. Etc. Etc.) I too must think about it before I have a good suggestion. MMMMM MMMMM

1997-09-03 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations - (stoodin101@aol.com)


> What ep. from the >original series do you think should be the next one to be a remake? They need to remake "Counterweight" or "Expanding Human" and this time make some kind of a STORY out of them, just to prove it can be done. Get rid of the Antheonian and do "Counterweight" as Sohl wrote it, as a claustrophobic character study. WITHOUT MONSTERS! Or do "Expanding Human", not as the boring Jekyll and Hyde thing, but as a truly Lovecraftian piece in which the drugs open the subject's perceptions ever wider, at first in a sort of intuitive ESP and then, as he continues the experiment, to things he could not imagine, to senses beyond the 5 we know. And get Azzopardi, Scanlan, Eastman or Nimziki to direct. One of their top flight directors, not some guy who needs to be in sitcoms. And I want Ron Yoshida as editor, too. He seems to really have his craft together. WHICHEVER ep they do, these or some other, they should choose one that was NOT a success the first time around. For my $, the nOL "I Robot" is a gigantic improvement over the poorly directed, lame original...but it still isn't removed ENOUGH from the original to make it a new experience! NECRONOMICON, all-instrumental electronic music inspired by H.P.Lovecraft, now available on c-60 cassette. E-mail StoOdin101@aol.com for details.

1997-09-03 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations - (solo@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)


MaggieM wrote: :THE NEW OUTER LIMITS has been all new original eps, with 2 exceptions. :In the first season, they did a remake of "I, Robot". :In this last season, they did a remake of "A Feasibility Study". :Take some time before answering my next questions. What ep. from the :original series do you think should be the next one to be a remake? More :important, why & what could they do to update/add/make it better than the :original? (In "I, Robot" the hook was stunt casting. In "A Feasibility :Study" another alien race was added. Etc. Etc.) I've not seen enough of the old OL to make a sensible judgement, however, as it happens, I did a review of the new remake of A feasibilty Study for "The McCallum Observer," & it was much better than the original (which I rented for comparison's sake). The extra set of aliens was only one thing which was different, & improved. The entire production was much better scripted this time, casting was superb, sets better -- in fact, one of the few quibbles I had w/the remake was that the "master" aliens were so shoddily-done! (Still better than the originals, however, who looked as though they were clumsily formed from Play-Doh & sprayed silver...) I'm really enjoying the new series even more than the old. Of course, everyone's standards have been upped since those days. And SF/fantasy have become "respectable," allowing directors & producers much larger budgets now with which to hire better actors, set designers, casting agents., et al...|-} Magpie P.S. Did anyone besides myself catch that marvelous frame of the father's hand reaching for his daughter's hand -- an ironic mirror of Michelangelo's painting in which God gives -life- to Adam? Personal replies to mfu@mail.utexas.edu ONLY.

1997-09-03 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations - ("Maggie M")


If the nOL were to remake another ep. from the original series, my nomination would be...... . . "Nightmare" . For those who don't recall it, thats the one where aliens from another planet attack earth, taking humans as prisoners of war. The earth folk go through intense interrogation, until the rather revealing ending. Why this ep.? Well, sadly, since "Nightmare" aired we humans have learned a lot about how to effectively interrogate & torture one another. Vietnam, the Gulf War, etc. saw big strides in psychological warfare & physical interrogation techniques. Being on cable, the OL team could truly capture the horrors much more graphicly (and effectively) than they could in 1963-65. And its a story that still needs to be told, as we obviously haven't learned much about how to treat one another in the last 30 years. MMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMM

1997-09-04 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations - (dice@primenet.comNOSPAM_REMOVE)


In article <19970903032401.XAA15618@ladder01.news.aol.com> stoodin101@aol.com (StoOdin101) writes: >From: stoodin101@aol.com (StoOdin101) >Subject: Re: Remake Nominations >Date: 3 Sep 1997 03:24:53 GMT >> What ep. from the >>original series do you think should be the next one to be a remake? >They need to remake "Counterweight" or "Expanding Human" and this time >make some kind of a STORY out of them, just to prove it can be done. Get >rid of the Antheonian and do "Counterweight" as Sohl wrote it, as a >claustrophobic character study. WITHOUT MONSTERS! Or do "Expanding Human", >not as the boring Jekyll and Hyde thing, but as a truly Lovecraftian piece >in which the drugs open the subject's perceptions ever wider, at first in a >sort of intuitive ESP and then, as he continues the experiment, to things >he could not imagine, to senses beyond the 5 we know. "Expanding Human" has my vote as the worst of the oOL eps. But, like other bad OL eps, the potential was there for a great show. The best of the series, I feel, were inspired by the classic days of 50's TV, like "Playhouse 90", etc. The worst oOL were 'inspired' by the cheap 50's drive-in horror flicks. Two good examples are "The Brain of Col Barham", in which a living brain goes berserk and lightning-bolts everyone to death ("Donovan's Brain"), and "Tourist Attraction" , obviously inspired by "The Creature from the Black Lagoon". "Expanding Human" is a good example; if they had written to their high standards, it could have been great. Instead we get a guy who takes drugs that give him heavy face makeup and a bad attitude. I'll tell you what it should have been: I read Paddy Chayefsky's great book "Altered States", and realized THIS is what 'EH' should have been. (The book, not the crass movie.) Perhaps the nOL folks will get the message and do a remake along those lines.

1997-09-05 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations - (acutabov@ix.netcom.com)


>Maggie wrote: > THE NEW OUTER LIMITS has been all new original episodes, with two > exceptions. > In the first season, they did a remake of "I, Robot". > In this last season, they did a remake of "A Feasibility Study". > > Take some time before answering my next questions. What ep. from the > original series do you think should be the next one to be a remake? More > importantly, why and what could they do to update / add / make it better > than the original? (In "I, Robot" the hook was stunt casting. In "A > Feasibility Study" another alien race was added. Etc. Etc.) > I too must think about it before I have a good suggestion. Any of the worst episodes would get my vote.

1997-09-05 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations - (acutabov@ix.netcom.com)


Is this the episode with the Ebonites?? > Maggie wrote: > If the nOL were to remake another ep. from the original series, my > nomination would be...... . > . > "Nightmare" . > > For those who don't recall it, thats the one where aliens from another > planet attack earth, taking humans as prisoners of war. The earth folk go > through intense interrogation, until the rather revealing ending. > Why this ep.? > Well, sadly, since "Nightmare" aired we humans have learned a lot > about how to effectively interrogate & torture one another. Vietnam, the > Gulf War, etc. saw big strides in psychological warfare & physical > interrogation techniques. > Being on cable, the OL team could truly capture the horrors much more > graphicly (and effectively) than they could in 1963-65. > And its a story that still needs to be told, as we obviously haven't > learned much about how to treat one another in the last 30 years. > > MMMMMMMMMM > MMMMMMMMMM

1997-09-05 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations - (Peter Petrisko <ptp@primenet.com>)


StoOdin101 <stoodin101@aol.com> writes: (about oOL vs. nOL) : It is a different kind of show. Episodes like "Inconstant Moon", "Dark : Rain", "Stitch in Time", "Second Thoughts"...could never have been done on : oOL, because of the ABC edict for Monsters, monsters and more monsters. I always believed ABC was behind the monsters too, but I then read it was actually Joseph Stefano who insisted upon using what he called "the bear" because (as he said) "the viewer must know the delicious & consciously desired element of terror." Thats why a number of the second season eps. (when Ben Brady took over the production chores) were "bearless" (or were "man as bear"). The monsters had taken a beating by tv critics, so he decided to emphasize science over horror. He also got rid of Conrad Hall, and thus oOL's distinct look, because he said the cinematography was "too confusing" for the audience. ("Pa, look at dat tv. Da lighting, it t'aint natural! I'm confused, pa. Whats wrong with da tv, pa? I'm scared, pa. Turn on Jackie Gleason.") I agree, however, (of the two I've seen) that they wouldn't have worked on the oOL. Just for different reasons.

1997-09-06 00:00:00 - Remake Nominations; TZ vs oOL - (stoodin101@aol.com)


> I >thot they were -very- nicely done (tho I did wonder what the "standing >stones" things w/red scarves were -- fully transfomed aliens??). I figured those were monuments set up by the surviving aliens for those who had succumbed to the stone disease. > Esp the dissolve from the father's face to the daughter's >-- such a calm look of acceptance. And love. What a bittersweet >resolution -- & all without a single word spoken. That was superlative. Nothing like that moment in the original. And if they MUST remake old eps, then they need to go for things that are not in the original. >To be fair, >however, I do still have a high regard for som of TZ's -stories-...& I >must admit, -both- series contributed to a memorable series of nightmares! > > But most TZs that we remember had no monsters (like Time Enough at Last, where Burgess Meredith drops and breaks his glasses at a Bad Time, or THe Shelter, which was where I THOUGHT Steafno was going with the 'must-get-generator' bit of Feasibility Study. Those that did have boogiemen (Nightmare at 30000 feet, The Invaders, Eye of the Beholder) are remembered more for the HUMAN characters and their responses rather than the monsters. THe opposite is true of many oOLs. People cant remember the plot, or any of the characters names, but they remember things like the Vacuum Cleaner Monster (as it is usually termed), the guy with that GLass Hand, and the Zanti Misfits. Someone once said, and I hold to this, that TZ was like unto the "folk music" of our country, while oOL was like "thrash" or "death-metal". But nOL is not so much thrash --- though it can be; check out "New Breed" or "If These Walls Could Talk" --- it has borrowed some from Serling (the "surprise ending", which is not really a good move, because too much of that becomes horribly predictable) as well as Stefano and Stevens...and Brady; as someone else pointed out, nOL rides the Brady wave of 'more science/fewer monsters' much more often than it gets into Stefano/Stevens territory. Don't you think those manikins falling into the clock at the beginning of the show were designed to get the attention of those people who can never remember the DIFFERENCE between oOL and TZ? (My mother is one; when I told her OL had returned to the air, she said "Oh, I remember that" and launched in on the TZ "dee dee dee dee dee dee dee dee" theme. I corrected her. I' m sorta touchy about that.) TZ had clocks, and a manikin skin diver-like guy.... OL had an oscilloscope. I sure miss that oscilloscope; when Sandkings premiered I was looking forward to seeing the oscilloscope in colour! NECRONOMICON, all-instrumental electronic music inspired by H.P.Lovecraft, now available on c-60 cassette. E-mail StoOdin101@aol.com for details.

1997-09-06 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations; TZ vs oOL - (Delilah <dh@org.com>)


RE: "Expanding Human" If I ROBOT and FEASIBILITY STUDY are any indication, the nOL writers aren't willing to do more than add onto the original script. Your proposal for EXPANDING HUMAN would majorly rewrite the entire story. I don't see that happening. Too bad because you wrote an excellent proposal! It might be better as a new episode that only has the basic premise in common with EXPANDING HUMAN. On COUNTERWEIGHT tho, if the original script didn't include the plant monster and that was tagged on in the last draft of the script then it could be remade from the first script rather than the final one the oOL used. I agree a character study of claustrophobic isolation and paranoia amongst the people would make for a much better story than the original COUNTERWEIGHT. So you convinced me and I vote for COUNTERWEIGHT too. - D. So heres the vote as of the am of 9-6: NIGHTMARE - 2 votes EXPANDING HUMAN - 2 votes (but w/ a new script, probably not possible) COUNTERWEIGHT - 2 votes THE INHERITORS - 1 vote FUN & GAMES - 1 vote Now only if the producers of the nOL actually read this and considered it!

1997-09-06 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations; TZ vs oOL - (stoodin101@aol.com)


>On COUNTERWEIGHT tho, if the original script didn't include the plant > monster and that was tagged on in the last draft of the script then it > could be remade from the first script rather than the final one the oOL > used. I don't know if the orginal SCRIPT used the plant monster or not. The original STORY is on this wise: The crew of a spacecraft are at each other's throats when they are suddenly forced to band together to counter the mysterious terrorist Red Mask, who threatens to wreck the ship or scuttle the mission. After much lengthy struggle, they succeed in slaying the villain before he can harm them, just before they enter orbit for their destination. The reader finds that "Red Mask" was put on the ship on purpose. He is the "counterweight" to their own frustrations, anger, etc...they vent it all on HIM instead of on each other, and he is "killed" in the finish of EVERY space trip of that length. See, the thing oOL aired doesn't even HAVE a "counterweight". Certainly the Antheonian can't be considered in the same light as "Red Mask". NECRONOMICON, all-instrumental electronic music inspired by H.P.Lovecraft, now available on c-60 cassette. E-mail StoOdin101@aol.com for details.

1997-09-06 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations; TZ vs oOL - (Peter Petrisko <ptp@primenet.com>)


StoOdin101 <stoodin101@aol.com> writes: : I don't know if the orginal SCRIPT used the plant monster or not. The : original STORY is on this wise: : The crew of a spacecraft are at each other's throats when they are : suddenly forced to band together to counter the mysterious terrorist Red : Mask, who threatens to wreck the ship or scuttle the mission. After much : lengthy struggle, they succeed in slaying the villain before he can harm : them, just before they enter orbit for their destination. The reader finds : that "Red Mask" was put on the ship on purpose. He is the "counterweight" : to their own frustrations, anger, etc...they vent it all on HIM instead of : on each other, and he is "killed" in the finish of EVERY space trip of that : length. I don't know about Del., but I certainly did not know that backstory. Is "Red Mask" a HUMAN terrorist? Or what is he revealed to be if he is "killed" on every trip? Where does the original story appear? It almost makes me want to vote for "Counterweight" too. Almost.

1997-09-06 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations - (solo@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)


StoOdin101 (stoodin101@aol.com) wrote: :<solo@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> Magpie wrote: :>The entire production was much better scripted this time, casting was :>superb, sets better -- in fact, one of the few quibbles I had w/the :>remake was that the "master" aliens were so shoddily-done! :I blame that more on director/cinematographer than the alien construction :crew. I liked the design of the Triunes, but Girotti has a way of getting :right on top of his monsters (...) & thus revealing every flaw in the :makeup, as well as undercutting any sense of awe or terror we might get :from the fiends. And illuminating them as if they were Will Smith in :"Fresh Prince of Bel-Air" isn't that good an idea either. LOL! Yes, that's a very good point; I think you're right. I'm surprised I hadn't thot of that myself. Lighting is crucial to scenes like that! Thinking back, I knew even as I watched it that the whole scene was far too brightly-lit. And you're right about getting "on top of" (!) the aliens, too. Maybe a darker, more distant view would've better conveyed their alien-ness & made them more believable. I still think, overall, tho, that thier design was much superior to the original "Play-Doh" ones. By contrast, tho, think of the blue-grey aliens, the other victims. I thot they were -very- nicely done (tho I did wonder what the "standing stones" things w/red scarves were -- fully transfomed aliens??). That "stone tear" which fell from the dying alien's eye just tore me up -- & it seemed almost an -afterthot- by the director! If you blinked, you missed it! Very subtle...in the hands of a less skilled director, it could've been maudlin. :>Did anyone besides myself catch that marvelous frame of the father's :>hand reaching for his daughter's hand -- an ironic mirror of :>Michelangelo's painting in which God gives -life- to Adam? :Oh, yes. That was great, & part of why I wasn't totally upset with :Girotti...he did bring some nice aspects to the show, much better than :his previous efforts. Yeah. To my mind, that's the sort of moment we watch tv -for.- (The shots of still pictures in the finish were good, too! ) More agreement. Esp the dissolve from the father's face to the daughter's -- such a calm look of acceptance. And love. What a bittersweet resolution -- & all without a single word spoken. Truly, the power of tv lies in such intimate revalations. :If you want an even more Biblical reference, watch what Azzopardi does :with the spine-handed., mutating Lyndon Stiles (Clancy Brown) at the :finish of "Afterlife" from season two. Haven't had the pleasure, I'm afraid. Hafta catch it in a re-run.... :>I'm really enjoying the new series even more than the old. :It's a diff kind of show. It stands on the shoulders of the original, but it -is- superiour, in many ways. :Eps like "Inconstant Moon"... I loved that one! That whole silvery, incredible -look- of the show...the increasingly frantic feelings of the characters, the sense of impending doom -- it's been a long time since a show had me on the edge of my seat that way! :"Dark Rain," "Stitch in Time," "Second Thoughts"...could never've been :done on oOL, [due to] ABC's edict for monsters, monsters & more monsters. Mm-hmmm. Even as a child I felt they'd gone overboard in that dept -- altho, they were much better overall than TZ's cheesier ones. :Admittedly, oOL came up with the best monsters ever on the tube Ha! Speak of the devil...! |-} What'd I =just say=...?! To be fair, however, I do still have a high regard for som of TZ's -stories-...& I must admit, -both- series contributed to a memorable series of nightmares! Mags

1997-09-07 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations; TZ vs oOL - (stoodin101@aol.com)


> I don't know about Del., but I certainly did not know that backstory. > Is "Red Mask" a HUMAN terrorist? Or what is he revealed to be if he is > "killed" on every trip? Where does the original story appear? > It almost makes me want to vote for "Counterweight" too. Almost. > > > Red Mask is a human, the death is faked. Although I guess we could make him another Innobotics android if we HAD to have some monster or robot in the story. (How many noticed that Innobotics, the company that made Valerie 23, also made the Android Village and all the 'bots in the 2nd season ep "Resurrection"?) I remember that his position had a name among those who knew what he really was...like "Nilly" or somesuch title. They had a little song they sung among them "Yes, I'm a Nilly, and I've died 7 times..." I don't remember what it stood for, probably "nil-aggression target" or something. I read this story YEARS AGO in a sf mag...the name escapes me... and have never seen it printed since. It was by Jerry Sohl, so if it is still available, a look in a Short Story Index should track it down. Sohl complained bitterly about the OL version, and says he has NEVER watched it through. If I can find my copy of The OL Companion, I think there is some info there on it.

1997-09-26 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations - (acutabov@ix.netcom.com)


The oOL episode "The Probe" would get my vote. And those stupid looking, wobbly, mudpie germ monsters would have to go!

1997-09-26 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations - (stoodin101@aol.com)


>The oOL episode "The Probe" would get my vote. > >And those stupid looking, wobbly, mudpie germ monsters would >have to go! It would be a good one to remake...the idea behind it is good...but the monster microbe was popular enough to be reincarnated as one of Star Trek's most legendary monsters a few years later! The Horta was Prohaska wearing the microbe suit again.... NECRONOMICON, all-instrumental electronic music inspired by H.P.Lovecraft, now available on c-60 cassette. E-mail StoOdin101@aol.com for details.

1997-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations - (stoodin101@aol.com)


>The Horta? Where they the rock eaters? Sure were. The story is that Prohaska came crawling into Roddenberry's office wearing the Microbe costume from THE PROBE, went back and forth in a threatening manner and then asked Roddenberry and Coon "Do you like it?" "Yeah, it's great, but what is it?" "It can be anything you want it to be." And so Coon wrote 'The Devil in the Dark' around the costume. I have also heard that the Calco Galaxy creatures from FUN AND GAMES appeared in "The Cage" (which became "The Menagerie"), but I don't know where. of course I havent seen that show in decades. NECRONOMICON, all-instrumental electronic music inspired by H.P.Lovecraft, now available on c-60 cassette. E-mail StoOdin101@aol.com for details.

1997-09-30 00:00:00 - Re: Remake Nominations - (acutabov@ix.netcom.com)


>StoOdin101 <stoodin101@aol.com> wrote: > >The oOL episode "The Probe" would get my vote. > >And those stupid looking, wobbly, mudpie germ monsters would > >have to go! > > It would be a good one to remake...the idea behind it is good...but the > monster microbe was popular enough to be reincarnated as one of Star Trek's > most legendary monsters a few years later! The Horta was Prohaska wearing > the microbe suit again.... > > NECRONOMICON, all-instrumental electronic music inspired by H.P.Lovecraft, > now available on c-60 cassette. E-mail StoOdin101@aol.com for details. The Horta? Where they the rock eaters?