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1996-10-29 00:00:00 - New world ideas? I have some! - (Dean <dean@nwiowa.com>)


How about having the Sliders land on a world where the Cuban Missile Crisis had a very different ending--a nuclear war, and the 1996 Earth is now ravaged and desolate with virtually no electricity due to the EMP effects the war caused those 30 years before, and which Quinn's timer becomes virtually useless because of this, and they must find a way of tapping into electricity in order to re-activate the timer and send them on to the next world? And how about a world where the Nazis won World War II, and they now control America? How about a world where the Confederacy won the Civil War back in the mid-19th Century, and the U.S.A. is known as the C.S.A. (Confederate States of America)? How about a world where all the writing is backwards (like in a mirror, similar to the world where the astronauts entered in the movie "Journey to the Other Side of the Sun"? A world where the aging process is reversed? A world where the aliens who (in our world had crashed in Roswell, N.M. in 1947) landed in New York City instead and now is populated by both humans and aliens co-existing with one another? A world where the Earth's rotation is reversed, traveling westward instead of eastword? These are just some ideas I would have for worlds for the Sliders to go to. Thanks for your time! Dean dean@nwiowa.com

1996-11-02 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (Debra L Schwartz <debra+@andrew.cmu.edu>)


Excerpts from netnews.alt.tv.sliders: 29-Oct-96 New world ideas? I have some! "Dean"@nwiowa.com (1319) > And how about a world where the Nazis won World War II, and they now > control America? Please no! It's cliche, it's been done to death. Even the old Star Trek did that in a way. > How about a world where the Confederacy won the Civil War back in the > mid-19th Century, and the U.S.A. is known as the C.S.A. (Confederate States > of America)? More likely that there would be two nations since they were trying to split, not take over the USA. And a world where slavery wasn't abolished is also done to death. Of course if you have more interesting possibilities for this then it could work. What other affects would it have? > How about a world where all the writing is backwards (like in a mirror, > similar to the world where the astronauts entered in the movie "Journey to > the Other Side of the Sun"? Been done before. For example _Through the Looking Glass and What Alice Found There_ and that wouldn't be much of a world. They just wouldn't read or write. > A world where the aging process is reversed? Forget the story, but I've read at least two stories with this idea. And they did do a time goes backward plot line already. But if done well enough it might work. > A world where the aliens who (in our world had crashed in Roswell, N.M. in > 1947) landed in New York City instead and now is populated by both humans > and aliens co-existing with one another? > A world where the Earth's rotation is reversed, traveling westward instead > of eastword? As in all of the Oz books? Again, not much of a story. Does it really matter where the sun rises and sets? Sliders get Jet Lag?<g> A story _idea_ is nothing. An idea is virtually worthless. I've got lots of ideas. A plot outline is something. Try to turn any idea into a story and you'll understand. Ideas only have some merit if they are new. Rachel "The higher you soar the smaller you look to those who cannot fly." Surel or Rachel on DALnet http://www.dal.net http://www.geocities.com/Athens/3503

1996-11-02 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu)


In <01bbc560$edaeaa80$771648ce@dean> "Dean" <dean@nwiowa.com> writes: > > How about having the Sliders land on a world where the Cuban Missile Crisis > had a very different ending--a nuclear war, and the 1996 Earth is now > ravaged and desolate with virtually no electricity due to the EMP effects > the war caused those 30 years before, and which Quinn's timer becomes > virtually useless because of this, and they must find a way of tapping into > electricity in order to re-activate the timer and send them on to the next > world? See "SECOND CHANCE," the "SEAQUEST: 2032" script from Season III, written by Carleton Eastlake. >And how about a world where the Nazis won World War II, and they now >control America? See "THE MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE" by Philip K. Dick, "THE PROTEUS OPERATION" by James P. Hogan, or "REICHSWELT" by H. Beam Piper. > How about a world where the Confederacy won the Civil War back in the > mid-19th Century, and the U.S.A. is known as the C.S.A. (Confederate States > of America)? See "BRING THE JUBILEE" by Ward Moore. See "THE PROBABILITY BROACH" by L. Neil Smith. > How about a world where all the writing is backwards (like in a mirror, > similar to the world where the astronauts entered in the movie "Journey to > the Other Side of the Sun"? "JOURNEY TO THE FAR SIDE OF THE SUN," a Gerry & Sylvia Anderson fantasy film. See "SWAPPED!" a made-for-TV adaption of an old Arthur C. Clarke story involving L-R reversal, with the TV script altered to make it a parallel (but mirrored) universe. > A world where the aging process is reversed? Too many novels and scripts to list. > A world where the aliens who (in our world had crashed in Roswell, N.M. in > 1947) landed in New York City instead and now is populated by both humans > and aliens co-existing with one another? See George R.R. Martin's "WILD CARDS" shared universe collections. And apologize to the unremarkable Rockne S. O'Bannon for similarity to one of HIS dumber concepts. > A world where the Earth's rotation is reversed, traveling westward instead > of eastword? No one has ever been fool enough to suggest this, because direction of planetary rotation is a concomitant of planetary formation.... and if you mess with things THAT early on, you do *not* get a parallel world... > These are just some ideas I would have for worlds for the Sliders to go to. Please don't post any more of your "ideas" until you've done some reading in the genre; you're not contributing anything useful, and you ARE interdicting use of similar concepts by the folks who make the show. You can't legally authorize the use of anything you post over the Net, since a contract executed over the Net is not legally binding at present, and anything you post *IS* automatically copyrighted. To assign rights to material in one of your postings, you have to execute a WRITTEN contract signed by both parties. In other words, you can't give it away over the Net, but you can, by posting it, ensure that no one with good sense who's making a TV show will touch the concept with a ten-foot pole, even if the idea is already in production. Give it a rest, and if you're that smart, write your "ideas" as stories and send them in to editors. > Thanks for your time! ....which you just wasted.

1996-11-03 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? - (smallet@apollo.sfsu.edu)


Sort of a tangent, but I've decided that the new film version of Romeo and Juliet is really an expanded Sliders episode. -- **************************************************************************** "Whatever you do may seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it." --Gandhi

1996-11-05 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (finto@vvm.com)


In article <01bbc560$edaeaa80$771648ce@dean>, "Dean" <dean@nwiowa.com> wrote: >How about a world where the Confederacy won the Civil War back in the >mid-19th Century, and the U.S.A. is known as the C.S.A. (Confederate States >of America)? One small correction, the C.S.A. wanted to be free of the U.S.A. The C.S.A. had no desire to take control of the northern states. Unlike that evil Lincoln who destroyed my ancestors country.

1996-11-05 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (finto@vvm.com)


In article <smSuu9_00awm0aoWY0@andrew.cmu.edu>, Debra L Schwartz <debra+@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote: >> How about a world where the Confederacy won the Civil War back in the >> mid-19th Century, and the U.S.A. is known as the C.S.A. (Confederate States >> of America)? > >More likely that there would be two nations since they were trying to >split, not take over the USA. And a world where slavery wasn't abolished >is also done to death. Of course if you have more interesting >possibilities for this then it could work. What other affects would it >have?

1996-11-05 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (dhubbins@sonic.net)


Ken Finto (finto@vvm.com) wrote: : In article <01bbc560$edaeaa80$771648ce@dean>, "Dean" <dean@nwiowa.com> wrote: : : : >How about a world where the Confederacy won the Civil War back in the : >mid-19th Century, and the U.S.A. is known as the C.S.A. (Confederate States : >of America)? : : One small correction, the C.S.A. wanted to be free of the U.S.A. The C.S.A. : had no desire to take control of the northern states. Unlike that evil : Lincoln who destroyed my ancestors country. do you think the south would stop at the mason dixon line if they were winning

1996-11-05 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - ("Walter F.Kawalec", III)


> finto@vvm.com (Ken Finto) writes: > In article <01bbc560$edaeaa80$771648ce@dean>, "Dean" <dean@nwiowa.com> wrote: > > >How about a world where the Confederacy won the Civil War back in the > >mid-19th Century, and the U.S.A. is known as the C.S.A. (Confederate States > >of America)? > > One small correction, the C.S.A. wanted to be free of the U.S.A. The C.S.A. > had no desire to take control of the northern states. Unlike that evil > Lincoln who destroyed my ancestors country. President Lincoln destroyed no country. President Lincoln quashed an illegitimate rebellion, and in the process, freed an entire people from the evils of the C.S.A. The real tragedy is that there are still places named after such notable devils as Jefferson Davis all across one portion of this great union. Good Day, sir.

1996-11-06 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (chesler@world.std.com)


In article <55ojdn$t1k@ultra.sonic.net>, David St. Hubbins <dhubbins@sonic.net> wrote: >Ken Finto (finto@vvm.com) wrote: >: In article <01bbc560$edaeaa80$771648ce@dean>, "Dean" <dean@nwiowa.com> wrote: >: One small correction, the C.S.A. wanted to be free of the U.S.A. The C.S.A. >: had no desire to take control of the northern states. Unlike that evil >: Lincoln who destroyed my ancestors country. > >do you think the south would stop at the mason dixon line if they were >winning Absolutely. Look at the issues! Did the US ever try to invade Great Britain, either in 1783 or 1812? (Did we try to invade Baghdad in 1988 :-).) The CSA was asking only for independence (and, as far as I know, whether states have the right to secede, under either the Declaration of Independence (cited by Tennesee) or under the Constitution (cited by all other states) has never been decided judicially.) Of course it depends how many changes you want to make -- do you envision Grant falling down a flight of steps drunk and breaking his neck, allowing the war to drag into a tie from which the Union withdraws, or do envision Jefferson Davis and others building a Southern war machine, standardizing their railroad gauges and so forth, for a few years before launching a blitzkrieg on Washington and Annapolis. -- David Chesler (chesler@world.std.net - ISP david.chesler@itcambridge.com - WORK david@absol.com - DURABLE ADDRESS) "Please save my rabbit from the tyranny of hierarchical money grubbing evil" (Camb Food Co-op-ese for offering free rabbit to a good home [617-625-2645])

1996-11-12 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (newwave@cedep.com)


Some worlds I'd like to see. How about a world where the nazis won WWII and they control the world. A world where they actually do care about the environment and anyone littering get's throw in jail. A world where everything is like here, but the people act in accordance to a code of chivalry and honor and offence demand for a dual. And how about having them slide in a world where they meet people who are producing a show called 'Sliders'. Slightly weird, but that's the fun of it no? ^_^ Anyone got better ideas? Humm, I wonder if they're a way to submit idea? ----------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Marchi + Fan of Sci-Fi and Anime such as newwave@cedep.com + Urusei Yatsura, Babylon 5

1996-11-12 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu)


In <55ocgn$kqg@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Walter F. Kawalec, III (wakst9@pitt.edu) writes: > > President Lincoln destroyed no country. President Lincoln > quashed an illegitimate rebellion, and in the process, > freed an entire people from the evils of the C.S.A. > > The real tragedy is that there are still places named > after such notable devils as Jefferson Davis all across > one portion of this great union. > > Good Day, sir. > This is a ridiculous assertion. Lincoln's behavioral megalomania, probably related to his Marfan's Disease, manifested itself overtly in his decision to go ahead with trying to force the South into line; that regional dissension came about *NOT* because of "slavery," but because the South was on the verge of industrializing to such an extent that it would no longer be operationally dependent on the Northeast-region industrialists and shipping magnates. Secession was not only appropriate, but quite honorable, and the only "illegitimacy" was Lincoln... and Congress... deciding to despoil both regions in the course of conquering an otherwise relatively inoffensive area whose only real crime was that it refused to pay illegal, suppressive taxes to the Union, and was on the verge of becoming so economically effective that control of the North American continent would have shifted south of the Mason-Dixon Line. One of the biggest precipitating factors of the War was a sudden increase in Southern shipping tonnage, and a concomitant drop in revenues for the Northern shipping companies. PLEASE NOTE: The "Civil" War was *not* begun over "Slavery;" that was a convenient bit of rallying propaganda used *AFTER* the War had begun, and whipped to a high froth over a highly slanted and considerably fantasized book by Harriet Beecher Stowe. Yes, things WERE sometimes bad for the Slaves; but with the coming of modern industrialization, and the conversion of the Southern economy to machine- and technology-dependent labor, there would have been MORE demand for labor, and the labor would have had to be EDUCATED to cope with new demands. The eventual concomitant of increased responsibility and education in a lower class is obvious, and I sincerely doubt that the classic form of Southern slavery would have survived much past 1890 or 1900, and there'd have been a LOT less inter-racial animosity to deal with, facilitating less catastrophic forms of emancipation. (A large number of my ancestors came to this country as exiled criminals, "indentured servants," convicted felons, and slaves, and most of them managed to find a way to do fairly well within a generation or two. One of my great-great grandmothers was an illiterate indentured servant who was whipped and maltreated for nearly twenty years while she contrived to learn to read, save money, master basic arithmetic and English, and buy her contract free. The man she married had been shipped over in irons from Ireland, something to do with shooting sheriffs out of season. Slavery and involuntary servitude were NOT peculiar to either the South or to people with dark skins.) As it was, the economic devastation brought about by the "Civil" War destroyed an incipient *modern* culture, and created a nearly subsistence-level poverty culture, an environment where uneducated stoop labor was of critical importance... and thus carried the ugliness and economic/technical depression forward for at least three generations, with the overt effects of racially-based slavery surviving for at least a half century longer than they might otherwise have continued. Please read some history that was not written as a propaganda tract, and look up what was *actually* going on; you might be rather surprised to find out that much of the "history" you think you know is composed of Urban Myth, Union-government-mandated propaganda, and whitewashing biographers. Lincoln was a *brilliant* man, extremely intelligent and capable. He had inordinately high capacities, but little practical experience; note that in his major previous political race, he had LOST the election. His election to the presidency was largely a fluke, a circumstnace, rather than recognition of his ability and experience. He was a writer, an orator, a speaker, of no mean talent; his words still thunder across the decades. But the facts of the matter, at this late date, appear to be that he made the WRONG decisions, for the wrong reasons, and precipitated the economic destruction that culminated in an inappropriately strong, top-heavy federal government, hugely dependent on ever-increasing taxes, and put the Union on the track to the very destruction he claimed he was trying to avoid. "That government is best which governs the least." The man should have read the Constitution a bit more often, instead of staggering around the White House at 2 A.M. having long talks with the portraits of his predecessors; it didn't work for him any more than it would later work for Hillary.

1996-11-12 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (kevenhy@aol.com)


In article <3287bbfd.4151826@news.cedep.com>, newwave@cedep.com (Jonathan Marchi) writes: >Some worlds I'd like to see. >How about a world where the nazis won WWII and they control the world. >A world where they actually do care about the environment and anyone >littering get's throw in jail. >A world where everything is like here, but the people act in >accordance to a code of chivalry and honor and offence demand for a >dual. >And how about having them slide in a world where they meet people who >are producing a show called 'Sliders'. > >Slightly weird, but that's the fun of it no? ^_^ Slightly old too. >Anyone got better ideas? Anyone would. :-) >Humm, I wonder if they're a way to submit idea? I wouldn't bother with any of these. :-)

1996-11-13 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (throopw@sheol.org)


: gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) : One of my great-great grandmothers was an illiterate indentured : servant who was whipped and maltreated for nearly twenty years while : she contrived to learn to read, save money, master basic arithmetic : and English, and buy her contract free. The man she married had been : shipped over in irons from Ireland, something to do with shooting : sheriffs out of season. Hah. "What season is it?" "Why, it sheriff season, m'boy!" "<BLAM!!>" Ahem. Sheriffs y'say? Pfah! Small game! As I understand it, the "Throop" surname in the colonies was started by a fellow who relocated and changed his name to live down a bit of conspiracy to commit regicide... a bit more sporting to go after the big game, eh, what? -- Wayne Throop throopw@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw throopw@cisco.com

1996-11-13 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (tlsmith@netcom.com)


Distribution: world Wayne Throop (throopw@sheol.org) wrote: : : gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) : : One of my great-great grandmothers was an illiterate indentured : : servant who was whipped and maltreated for nearly twenty years while : : she contrived to learn to read, save money, master basic arithmetic : : and English, and buy her contract free. The man she married had been : : shipped over in irons from Ireland, something to do with shooting : : sheriffs out of season. : Hah. "What season is it?" "Why, it sheriff season, m'boy!" "<BLAM!!>" : Ahem. Sheriffs y'say? Pfah! Small game! As I understand it, the : "Throop" surname in the colonies was started by a fellow who relocated : and changed his name to live down a bit of conspiracy to commit : regicide... a bit more sporting to go after the big game, eh, what? How Our Ancestors Got in Trouble Big Time is interesting, isn't it? Some of my relatives claim that one of my "Maxwell" ancestors was at one time "Regent" of either Scotland or England (the stories vary), and that UNlike some others, he relinquished the "Regency" when the time came... and later ended up in the Tower of London. *Why* he landed there, no one seems to know. They don't seem to know if he died there - by execution or other means - either. Some of his Maxwell descendants supposedly fled to the New World, where they did pretty well - in fact, they must not have been *too* badly off when they left the British Isles, because they supposedly came over on their own ship. And they later intermarried with descendants of some of those Indentured Servants that GoE mentioned (probably not the *same* ones, though). We won't talk about the Hawkins side. They weren't all that interesting, though some of them *were* pretty nasty. And then there were the Wilsons. One of *those* supposedly was a blockade runner during the War Between the States... sort of like Rhett Butler. And he supposedly *kept* some of the money that was supposed to have gone to the Confederate Cause/Treasury... a *lot* like Rhett Butler... The Black Sheep and Rogues always seem more interesting than the "nice" relatives, don't they? ;-) "'Tis a wise child that knows its own father." - Old Proverb - M.Q.S., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore, (SCOoF) AKA The Lilac Fairy AKA C'mell posting courtesy tlsmith@netcom.com -- *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | M.Q.S. c/o T.L.S | "Don't play with that! You have no idea where | | tlsmith@netcom.com | it's been..." -- Speaker to Elevators | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

1996-11-13 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - ("Walter F.Kawalec", III)


> gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) writes: > In <55ocgn$kqg@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> > Walter F. Kawalec, III (wakst9@pitt.edu) writes: > > > > President Lincoln destroyed no country. President Lincoln > > quashed an illegitimate rebellion, and in the process, > > freed an entire people from the evils of the C.S.A. > > > > The real tragedy is that there are still places named > > after such notable devils as Jefferson Davis all across > > one portion of this great union. > > > > Good Day, sir. > > > > This is a ridiculous assertion. Lincoln's behavioral megalomania, > probably related to his Marfan's Disease, manifested itself overtly > in his decision to go ahead with trying to force the South into line; > that regional dissension came about *NOT* because of "slavery," but > because the South was on the verge of industrializing to such an > extent that it would no longer be operationally dependent on the > Northeast-region industrialists and shipping magnates. > > Secession was not only appropriate, but quite honorable, and the > only "illegitimacy" was Lincoln... and Congress... deciding to > despoil both regions in the course of conquering an otherwise > relatively inoffensive area whose only real crime was that it > refused to pay illegal, suppressive taxes to the Union, and was > on the verge of becoming so economically effective that control > of the North American continent would have shifted south of the > Mason-Dixon Line. One of the biggest precipitating factors of > the War was a sudden increase in Southern shipping tonnage, and > a concomitant drop in revenues for the Northern shipping companies. Even if you don't subscribe to the theory that the only losing rebellions are illegitimate, the fact remains that in ratifying the Constitution, the rebel states voluntarily ceded a portion of their sovereignty to the Federal Government. From that point forward they have no right to demand nor legitimate reason to expect that the Federal Government would, against its wishes, cede that sovereignty back to the states. The rebellion was, therefore, illegitimate. > PLEASE NOTE: The "Civil" War was *not* begun over "Slavery;" that > was a convenient bit of rallying propaganda used *AFTER* the War > had begun, and whipped to a high froth over a highly slanted and > considerably fantasized book by Harriet Beecher Stowe. Never did I assert that the Civil War was started over slavery. One would have to be a fool to believe that the institution was the sole cause of the war. The political alignments of the era did, however, have their roots in slavery. (discussion of slavery and identured servitude snipped) > As it was, the economic devastation brought about by the "Civil" War > destroyed an incipient *modern* culture, and created a nearly > subsistence-level poverty culture, an environment where uneducated > stoop labor was of critical importance... and thus carried the > ugliness and economic/technical depression forward for at least > three generations, with the overt effects of racially-based slavery > surviving for at least a half century longer than they might otherwise > have continued. Again, I stated nothing more than the fact that the Civil War lead to the de jure elimination of slavery and indentured servitude in the United States. As for whether it effectively ended de facto slavery, obviously not. (snip)

1996-11-13 00:00:00 - Marfan's/Lincoln/nuts; was Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu)


In <847902039@sheol.org> throopw@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) writes: >: gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) >: Lincoln's behavioral megalomania, probably related to his Marfan's Disease, > > Now *that*'s an interesting assertion. I must say, I was totally unaware > that Marfan's had any psychoactive effects at all, let alone a tendency > towards "megalomania". Can you documment this remarkable claim? > > In fact, since Marfan Syndrome (normally not called "disease") > is pretty much known to be a defect in production of the protein > fibrillin, any psychoactive effect seems quite far-fetched. > See [1], below. > EEyuup. That's why I used the word "related" rather than saying "a result of." "Megalomania" was *MY* interpretation, based on the fact that Lincoln's actions were those of a man who was willing to destroy millions of lives, and the economic health of a continent, just to keep a nation that *should* have been more of a loose confederacy anyway, from splitting up. There's a fair body of clinical data that seems to imply a very strong correlation between Marfan's and generic schizoid tendencies, and I've read articles on the subject. My own personal experiences with Marfan's victims have been notable; they've tended to be tall, gangly, often somewhat debilitated by rib-cage structural malfunctions, much brighter than the average, and flat-out loons who get nuttier and more paranoid with each passing year. Since I've known less than half a dozen, and several of those were wont to employ recreational pharmaceuticals, my observations have no clinical validity. Lincoln's escalating nuttiness over the last few years of his life seems to be pretty well documented, and I keep stumbling over references to it in various places. If you honestly want me to dig out references, I'll be glad to try, but this is a field where I don't maintain any more database than sticks in my own cortex, so it would mean a weekend in the library to do the job right.

1996-11-13 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu)


In <847903600@sheol.org> throopw@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) writes: > > Hah. "What season is it?" "Why, it sheriff season, m'boy!" "<BLAM!!>" > > Ahem. Sheriffs y'say? Pfah! Small game! As I understand it, the > "Throop" surname in the colonies was started by a fellow who relocated > and changed his name to live down a bit of conspiracy to commit > regicide... a bit more sporting to go after the big game, eh, what? > Small potatoes. Ever hear of a Revolutionary War sort-of-hero, a general named "Mad Anthony" Wayne? Wayne was the guy who marched his troops in random looping travels through the deep woods, largely avoiding contact with ANYONE until the war was pretty much over. In later years, his paranoia displayed itself in his many inventions, including the double-hammer flintlock rifle (two flints, two flashpans, higher reliability at the expense of more parts) and the Large Second Story. You see, "Mad Anthony" invented the house with a bigger top story, whose floor juts out *way* past the walls of the ground floor. This allows you to have small embrasures in the floor of the second story, providing opportunities to shoot down at people trying to break in through the doors below. There are extant accounts of him having made good use of this flight of brilliance, during various encounters with the indigenous population, and later with federal tax collectors during the Whiskey Rebellion era. At one point, General Wayne appears to have been deeply involved in a major plot to blow up Congress, although it is not clear precisely what his justification was, since in those days several members of Congress could actually read, write, and think. Possibly it had something to do with his reputed fondness for the subject of the Whiskey Rebellion. So, you see, it's not a question of what the various Throop progenitors did before leaving the Auld Sod, but rather a case of How Many Politicians Did They Hang in the *NEW* country? *grin*

1996-11-13 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (tlsmith@netcom.com)


Gharlane of Eddore (gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu) wrote: : In <01bbc560$edaeaa80$771648ce@dean> "Dean" <dean@nwiowa.com> writes: : > --> suggested worlds & discussion of same suddenly vanish when adolescent Gods of Several Universes finish their "Trading- Card Game" and go home <-- : > A world where the Earth's rotation is reversed, traveling westward instead : > of eastword? : No one has ever been fool enough to suggest this, because direction of : planetary rotation is a concomitant of planetary formation.... and if : you mess with things THAT early on, you do *not* get a parallel world... *No* one has suggested this? Well, I 'm sure that you know better than I - I certainly don't have your vast knowledge of all the oddities that have been published in the SF/Fantasy/Skiffy fields... Someone certainly did *imply* that, though, and got rather severely chastised for it... Didn't keep that Someone from winning both "Hugo" and "Nebula" awards in 1971 for the work in question, though. (See the first edition, first pb printing of RINGWORLD [1970], Louis Wu's Birthday Party; check out the route traveled as Wu chases midnight... This was corrected in subsequent editions. ) The same writer (or one of his collaborators), IIRC, also reversed the positions of Grants, New Mexico, and Gallup, New Mexico on I-40, in FALLEN ANGELS. I dunno if anyone other that moi noticed that, but quite a few folks noticed the "styrofoam/paper-cup" argument reversal in that one... "(If you own a first paperback edition of _Ringworld_, it's the one with the mistakes in it. It's worth money.)" - L. Niven; Dedication, THE RINGWORLD ENGINEERS "This could but have happened once - And we missed it ...lost it forever." - Robert Browning M.Q.S., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore; (SCOoF) AKA The Lilac Fairy; AKA C'mell posting courtesy tlsmith@netcom.com -- *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | M.Q.S. c/o T.L.S | "Don't play with that! You have no idea where | | tlsmith@netcom.com | it's been..." -- Speaker to Elevators | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

1996-11-13 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (throopw@sheol.org)


: gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) : Lincoln's behavioral megalomania, probably related to his Marfan's Disease, Now *that*'s an interesting assertion. I must say, I was totally unaware that Marfan's had any psychoactive effects at all, let alone a tendency towards "megalomania". Can you documment this remarkable claim? In fact, since Marfan Syndrome (normally not called "disease") is pretty much known to be a defect in production of the protein fibrillin, any psychoactive effect seems quite far-fetched. See [1], below. : [Lincoln's] : decision to go ahead with trying to force the South into line; that : regional dissension came about *NOT* because of "slavery," but because : the South was on the verge of industrializing to such an extent that : it would no longer be operationally dependent on the Northeast-region : industrialists and shipping magnates. [...] : PLEASE NOTE: The "Civil" War was *not* begun over "Slavery;" that was : a convenient bit of rallying propaganda used *AFTER* the War had : begun, and whipped to a high froth over a highly slanted and : considerably fantasized book by Harriet Beecher Stowe. Oh, yeah. There was no dispute over "slave states" vs "free states" in pre-war politics. There was no manuvering to line up new western states into one camp or another based solely on slavery laws. It was all based on industrialization. Slavery had nothing at all to do with it. Suuuuuuure Gharlane. Suuuuuuuure. Not that the cynical follow-the-more-general-money-trail viewpoint isn't both useful and enlightening, and sure, northern interests' bread was buttered on more sides than simple moral outrage. And Lincoln didn't start out the war with the intention of proclaiming emancipation. All these are quite true. But the position that the slavery issue was "a convenient bit of rallying propaganda used *AFTER* the War" is really rather a bit much. Just because something was used as convenient rallying propoganda does not mean it wasn't also a genuine issue. -- Wayne Throop throopw@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw throopw@cisco.com -- [1] excerpt from http://babynet.ddwi.com/tlc/pregnancy/marfanis.html What Is Marfan Syndrome? It is a variable pattern of abnormalities that may affect the heart, blood vessels, lungs, eyes, bones and ligaments. It is one of the more than 100 inherited disorders of connective tissue (material that holds tissues of the body together). Affected individuals are often tall, slender, and loose-jointed. Arms and legs may be unusually long in proportion to the torso. The spine may have a spiral curve (scoliosis), and the breastbone may protrude or look caved in. The face may be long and narrow, with a high roof of the mouth and crowded teeth. Heart and blood vessels nearly always are affected. Heart valves, pairs or trios of flaps that keep the blood flowing in one direction through the heart, usually are oversized and floppy. Their motion during heartbeats may allow brief reverse blood flow and cause a heart murmur (an abnormal sound heard through a stethoscope). The body's largest artery, the aorta, is nearly always affected to some extent. All blood pumped from the heart passes forcefully into the aorta, which branches out to carry oxygen- rich blood to the entire body. A weak aorta gradually dilates and can split in places, allowing blood to leak into the chest or abdomen. Sudden, large splits can result in death, as occurred with Flo Hyman. In addition, persons with Marfan syndrome are more prone than others to sudden lung collapse. In some 50 percent of persons with Marfan syndrome, the lens of an eye is off-center. Nearsightedness is another common symptom, whether the lens is in place or not. Also, the light-sensing inner lining of the eye (retina) may become detached. What Causes Marfan Syndrome? In 1991, researchers funded in part by the March of Dimes discovered that Marfan syndome is caused by a defective gene on chromosome 15, one of the 23 pairs of human chromosomes. It appears that a whole variety of mutations (changes) in this gene can cause the syndrome, which may help explain why some people with Marfan syndrome are severely affected while others have mild symptoms. Normally, this gene tells the body to produce a protein called fibrillin, an essential component of connective tissue that appears to contribute to its strength and elasticity. Fibrillin is usually especially abundant in the aorta, in the ligaments that hold the eye's lens in place, and in bones. Apparently, individuals with Marfan syndrome have scant or faulty fibrillin in these tissues, which may cause the tissues to stretch due to their inability to withstand normal stress. The abnormal gene is usually inherited from one parent who has the disorder. It is a "dominant" gene, which means that each child of a parent with the gene has a 50-50 chance of inheriting it. In about 25 percent of cases, a genetic accident (new mutation) occurs in a sperm or egg cell of an unaffected parent and affects an offspring. As with other inherited disorders, Marfan syndrome cannot be "caught" from another person. Although it may be diagnosed at any age, it doesn't occur unless the abnormal gene is present.

1996-11-16 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (regnery@ix.netcom.com)


On Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:06:34 GMT, newwave@cedep.com (Jonathan Marchi) wrote: >Some worlds I'd like to see. > >How about a world where the nazis won WWII and they control the world. > >A world where they actually do care about the environment and anyone >littering get's throw in jail. The Nazis would throw people in jail for littering? -- George M. Regnery | "Geschichte ist keine Abfolge von Daten sondern ein sich ------------------+ ueber die Dimension der Zeit erstreckendes Netz in welchem Vergagenheit, Gegenwart & Zukunft zusammengewoben sind als Schicksal."-- Cusco Links for Corporate Information: http://www.netcom.com/~regnery/corporate.html

1996-11-17 00:00:00 - Re: Marfan's/Lincoln/nuts; was Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (tlsmith@netcom.com)


Gharlane of Eddore (gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu) wrote: : In <847902039@sheol.org> throopw@sheol.org (Wayne Throop) writes: : >: gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) : >: Lincoln's behavioral megalomania, probably related to his Marfan's Disease, : > : > Now *that*'s an interesting assertion. I must say, I was totally unaware : > that Marfan's had any psychoactive effects at all, let alone a tendency : > towards "megalomania". Can you documment this remarkable claim? : > : > In fact, since Marfan Syndrome (normally not called "disease") : > is pretty much known to be a defect in production of the protein : > fibrillin, any psychoactive effect seems quite far-fetched. : > See [1], below. : > : EEyuup. That's why I used the word "related" rather than saying : "a result of." : "Megalomania" was *MY* interpretation, based on the fact that Lincoln's : actions were those of a man who was willing to destroy millions of lives, : and the economic health of a continent, just to keep a nation that *should* : have been more of a loose confederacy anyway, from splitting up. : There's a fair body of clinical data that seems to imply a very : strong correlation between Marfan's and generic schizoid tendencies, : and I've read articles on the subject. ----> snip <--- IIRC, one of the physical manifestations of Marfan's Syndrome is "arachnodactyly." (sp?) I remember seeing only a few photos of Lincoln's hands, but the fingers appeared very long and slender; I *did* once see a glove that supposedly had belonged to Lincoln... the fingers of the glove were very long, and the tips were split. Also IIRC, Marfan's eventually causes weakness in even the minor vessels of the circulatory system; it is possible that a series of minor cerebral vascular accidents could affect the brain... However, if you really *need* to find reasons for peculiar behavior by just about anyone in the 19th Century - and even after - you really don't need to look much farther than the doctor's Little Black Bag. Have you ever seen one of those that still has the "contents" intact? I've seen several. They were full of morphine [C(17)H(19)O(3)N.H(2)O] and opiate-deriviate compounds. (Can you say "Laudanum" - it sounds *nicer*... that's a tincture of opium [dissolved in alcohol], usually, but the term also applied, then, to other opium-containing preparations... ) Lincoln suffered from insomnia, did he not? Morphine/Laudanum were quite regularly "prescribed" for that, and would also have been for any aches associated with Marfan's, or any other ailment. (Morphine is named for "Morpheus," the God of Sleep.) Heck, most "over-the-counter" or "Patent" medicines contained either some form of opiate - or lots and *lots* of alcohol. "Lydia Pinkham's Vegetable Compound," and "Gerber's Baby Magic" are names that come to mind... (put that cranky baby right to sleep, and then take your Lydia's tonic, and everything will be just *fine*, Mom... ) Who knows what the Lincolns may have been dosing themselves with? Most folks used that stuff back then, and it would not have been thought unusual if the president did. Or his wife... Mrs. L. was a little .....*odd* ... herself, y'know. Side note: Wonder if a genetic propensity toward "alcoholism" got better established in the gene pool when folks started living in large groups -- and the problems of inadequate plumbing/contaminated water became common... Those soused all the time *might* survive outbreaks of, for example, Typhoid, better than those who drank the water... And perhaps the custom of drinking coffee or tea with meals, and at other times, was beneficial - one had to *boil* the water to brew those drinks... Take your tonic now, Gharlane. Or your lab assistants will increase the dosage of "Diet Soda" in your nutrient-feed. "Everyone should believe in something. I believe I'll have a drink." - Unknown "Hurrah! Hurrah! For Southern Rights, Hurrah! Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star!" - "Confederate" song - M.Q.s., "Official Bimbo" for Baltimore; (SCOoF) AKA The Lilac Fairy; AKA The Lady in Green posting courtesy tlsmith@netcom.com -- *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | M.Q.S. c/o T.L.S | "Don't play with that! You have no idea where | | tlsmith@netcom.com | it's been..." -- Speaker to Elevators | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

1996-11-18 00:00:00 - Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (Lucas Treffkorn <lucas@rvt.com>)


George Matthew Regnery wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:06:34 GMT, newwave@cedep.com (Jonathan Marchi) > wrote: > > >Some worlds I'd like to see. > > > >How about a world where the nazis won WWII and they control the world. > > > >A world where they actually do care about the environment and anyone > >littering get's throw in jail. > > The Nazis would throw people in jail for littering? > Well, after Hitler died, if a new, not quite so fanatical leader came to power, it is feasible that the Nazis would be toned down a bit. Lucas Treffkorn

1996-11-22 00:00:00 - Re: Marfan's/Lincoln/nuts; was Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (jdweiner@bu.edu)


Terry L. Smith (tlsmith@netcom.com (Terry L. Smith)) wrote: :Side note: Wonder if a genetic propensity toward "alcoholism" got :better established in the gene pool when folks started living in :large groups -- and the problems of inadequate plumbing/contaminated :water became common... Those soused all the time *might* survive :outbreaks of, for example, Typhoid, better than those who drank the :water... And perhaps the custom of drinking coffee or tea :with meals, and at other times, was beneficial - one had to :*boil* the water to brew those drinks... I happened to do a paper on the origins of beer last year, so I have some minor knowledge of this. People noticed pretty early on that if you drank water, you tended to get sick; if you drank beer, you stayed healthier. (It probably predates large population clusters - brewing dates back to several thousand years BC. Whether wine or beer came first is still up in the air.) This was, of course, because the water was boiled during the brewing, but they couldn't have known that. Makes you wonder how history might have been different if they _had_...maybe they wouldn't have been such big fans of beer. Most likely they still would have been, though: alcohol was one of very few consciousness-altering substances known to early humans. Beer also has the advantage of keeping better than raw grain - it doesn't get moldy or rodent-eaten. I'm not sure that this explains coffee and tea, though - you don't actually have to boil those, although people usually did. JD -- "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams My homepage - http://acs.bu.edu:8001/~jdweiner

1996-11-23 00:00:00 - Re: Marfan's/Lincoln/nuts; was Re: New world ideas? I have some! - (gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu)


In <5733pk$smm@news.bu.edu> jdweiner@bu.edu (A Traveler of the Orion Spiral Arm) writes: > > I happened to do a paper on the origins of beer last year, so I have > some minor knowledge of this. People noticed pretty early on that if > you drank water, you tended to get sick; if you drank beer, you stayed > healthier. (It probably predates large population clusters - brewing > dates back to several thousand years BC. Whether wine or beer came > first is still up in the air.) This was, of course, because the water > was boiled during the brewing, but they couldn't have known that. > Makes you wonder how history might have been different if they > _had_...maybe they wouldn't have been such big fans of beer. Most > likely they still would have been, though: alcohol was one of very few > consciousness-altering substances known to early humans. Beer also > has the advantage of keeping better than raw grain - it doesn't get > moldy or rodent-eaten. > I'm not sure that this explains coffee and tea, though - you don't > actually have to boil those, although people usually did. > Your emphasis on beer-as-consciousness-alterer is probably less important than you suspect; remember that long-term food storage is critically important in a subsistence-level agrarian society, *and* that the yeast used in beer manufacture tends to create massive quantities of critical B-series vitamins, and more readily assimilable forms of the minerals and proteins involved. And note also that primitively produced beer tends to be very very thick, and have *high* food value, and that the complex fats and proteins in classic primitive beer make a two-liter stein a pretty danged good meal, with so much food value that it can be *very* hard to get drunk, because you get real full, real fast, and it's very hard to get the alcohol level in classic grain-based beer much above three percent. (Isn't the arbitrary 3.2% point the spot at which the alcohol starts killing the yeast, making it harder to continue the fermentation?) I think it's safer to consider old-time beer as food storage and dietary supplement (think: how many body-builders have you know who buy "brewer's yeast" to use as a food additive? Now ask yourself, what's in the beer *before* Coors, or Bud, filters out all the food value to make it into malt-flavored soda pop plus ethanol? ) than as a recreational drug...*grin* (*Modern* beer, particularly U.S. "beer," is merely a vaguely alcoholic form of dishwater, or perhaps the output from a diabetic horse.) As for coffee and tea, they are DRUGS, and habituate the user with chemical addiction; there is no food value to consider. Flash- steeped beverages go back thousands of years prior to the art of brewing; you can always find addicts who do things like chewing on betel nuts, or eating coffee beans without roasting and grinding them first.