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2000-05-22 00:00:00 - Re: QUESTION: About past episode "Distant Origin" - (philliefan <PhillieFan_99@yahoo.com>)


Bozo the Evil Klown wrote: > Arthur Dent doth write thus: > > >I never saw this episode, but read a vague synopsis and was wondering > >if the Voth are the next evolution in man and what happened in that > >episode at the end? > > The Voth evolved (on Earth) from the same family line that gave rise to > dinosaurs. IIRC they couldn't compete with the bigger and badder lizards, and > migrated en masse into space for a more suitable planet where *they* could be > top of the food chain. > > A Voth scientist's distant origins theory upset a lot of the Voth's beliefs, > especially after he found the remains of Hogan on the planet from "Basics," and > found the genetic relationship. > > IIRC the scientist did a Galileo and recanted- possibly to save Voyager, as > Voyager was one of the irritating facts that would need to be swept under the > rug. > > ***************************************** > > "Insanity is a part of the times, Vir: You must learn to *embrace* the > madness!!" Londo Mollari I got the impression that a bunch of hadrosaurs, the Voth's direct ancestors, survived the mass-extinction at the end of the Cretaceous and evolved to the point where they were technologically advanced enough to leave the planet at the first sign of trouble. philliefan

2000-05-22 00:00:00 - Re: QUESTION: About past episode "Distant Origin" - ("Chris W." <el_capitano@geocities.com>)


"philliefan" <PhillieFan_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3929F4B3.28D30D7F@yahoo.com... > I got the impression that a bunch of hadrosaurs, the Voth's direct ancestors, > survived the mass-extinction at the end of the Cretaceous and evolved to the point > where they were technologically advanced enough to leave the planet at the first > sign of trouble. Despite it's utter idiocy, that's what TPTB were trying to convey. I might be able to buy Troodons evolving into humanoid creatures, given several dozen million years or so with the right environmental conditions. They've already got a few of the key characteristics: large brain (for a dinosaur), bipedal stance, stereoscopic vision, semi-opposable thumbs, small size, and correct geological period (very late Cretaceous). Hadrosaurs had a semi-opposable finger, and also lived in the very late Cretaceous. Unfortunately, they were huge (40+ feet long in some cases), quite simple-minded (like most plant-eating dinos), and mostly quadrupedal. They also lacked the ability to grasp objects, since three of their four fingers were most likely fused together into a fleshy walking pad. Plus their vision most likely had very little depth perception due to the shape of their skulls. Given lots of time, they *might* be able to evolve into humanoid creatures, but not in the time frame specified in "Distant Origin". I can see why they chose Parasaurolophus as the dinosaur from which the Voth evolved. They wanted the "pinnacle of cold-blooded evolution". They figured that most (if not all) meat-eating dinosaurs were warm blooded and that most (if not all) plant-eating dinosaurs were cold-blooded. The most evolved plant-eating dinosaurs are those who were around at the end of the Cretaceous. Contenders would thus include ankylosaurs, hadrosaurs, pachycephalosaurs, and ceratopsians. Of the hadrosaurs, Parasaurolophus *looks* the most evolved since it's got a big funky crest on its head - the biggest crest of any hadrosaur. And so that's the one they chose. The majority of people wouldn't know most of the reasons why Parasaurs are very unlikely contenders for humanoids, and they get some funky alien makeup out of the crest. Unfortunately, raptors like Troodon make much better candidates. Chris W. (resident dinosaur nut)

2000-05-23 00:00:00 - Re: QUESTION: About past episode "Distant Origin" - (Andrew Wilson <anwilson@indiana.edu>)


Chris W. <el_capitano@geocities.com> wrote in message news:392a22f8_1@binaries.vphos.net... > > "philliefan" <PhillieFan_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:3929F4B3.28D30D7F@yahoo.com... > > > I got the impression that a bunch of hadrosaurs, the Voth's direct > ancestors, > > survived the mass-extinction at the end of the Cretaceous and evolved to > the point > > where they were technologically advanced enough to leave the planet at the > first > > sign of trouble. > Hadrosaurs had a semi-opposable finger, and also lived in the very late > Cretaceous. Unfortunately, they were huge (40+ feet long in some cases), > quite simple-minded (like most plant-eating dinos), and mostly quadrupedal. > They also lacked the ability to grasp objects, since three of their four > fingers were most likely fused together into a fleshy walking pad. Plus > their vision most likely had very little depth perception due to the shape > of their skulls. depth perception has little to do with the shape of the skull...binocular eyes help, but are not crucial. Given lots of time, they *might* be able to evolve into > humanoid creatures, but not in the time frame specified in "Distant Origin". when was the cretaceous? it was long enough for mammals to do the evolving thing... ADW

2000-05-23 00:00:00 - Re: QUESTION: About past episode "Distant Origin" - ("Chris W." <el_capitano@geocities.com>)


"Andrew Wilson" <anwilson@indiana.edu> wrote in message news:8gee0i$7qs$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu... > > Plus > > their vision most likely had very little depth perception due to the shape > > of their skulls. > > depth perception has little to do with the shape of the skull...binocular > eyes help, but are not crucial. Sure it does. Hadrosaurs have their eyes set on the sides of their skulls. The skull tapers in a bit towards the beak, but not as much as, say, the skull of a tyrannosaur. It's certainly much less than that of a Troodon skull. The way you get binocular vision is to have some overlap in the field of view of both eyes. Animals whose eyes are in the front of their skull, like humans or cats, have a large overlap in the fields of vision of their eyes, and thus have good depth perception. Animals like hadrosaurs or horses have very little overlap (if any) and hence have poor depth perception. So depth perception is a direct result of the shape of the skull. I'd say that before an animal can start to use tools, it would have to have some kind of depth perception in order to properly manipulate them. But that's just a guess on my part. > Given lots of time, they *might* be able to evolve into > > humanoid creatures, but not in the time frame specified in "Distant > Origin". > > when was the cretaceous? it was long enough for mammals to do the evolving > thing... Good point. 64 million years was enough for mammals to go from small burrowing creatures to humanoids, so I suppose it's reasonable for hadrosaurs to make the same kind of significant changes in the same time frame. Unfortunately, "Distant Origin" doesn't quite give them enough time - if the dinos left Earth on their own. If parasaurs were transplanted and left to evolve in a carefully crafted environment (one that favoured evolutionary changes that would eventually produce humanoid creatures like the Voth) then it could work. But it would be easier with Troodons. :) Chris W.

2000-05-23 00:00:00 - QUESTION: About past episode "Distant Origin" - (Sorceror333@hotmail.com)


I never saw this episode, but read a vague synopsis and was wondering if the Voth are the next evolution in man and what happened in that episode at the end?

2000-05-23 00:00:00 - Re: QUESTION: About past episode "Distant Origin" - (evilklowwn@aol.comedy)


Arthur Dent doth write thus: >I never saw this episode, but read a vague synopsis and was wondering >if the Voth are the next evolution in man and what happened in that >episode at the end? The Voth evolved (on Earth) from the same family line that gave rise to dinosaurs. IIRC they couldn't compete with the bigger and badder lizards, and migrated en masse into space for a more suitable planet where *they* could be top of the food chain. A Voth scientist's distant origins theory upset a lot of the Voth's beliefs, especially after he found the remains of Hogan on the planet from "Basics," and found the genetic relationship. IIRC the scientist did a Galileo and recanted- possibly to save Voyager, as Voyager was one of the irritating facts that would need to be swept under the rug. ***************************************** "Insanity is a part of the times, Vir: You must learn to *embrace* the madness!!" Londo Mollari

2000-05-23 00:00:00 - Re: QUESTION: About past episode "Distant Origin" - (Craig <craig0629@worldnet.att.net>)


Arthur Dent <Sorceror333@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3929c757.15703471@netnews.worldnet.att.net... > I never saw this episode, but read a vague synopsis and was wondering > if the Voth are the next evolution in man and what happened in that > episode at the end? If it's the one I'm thinking of they evolved from dinosaurs. They were incredibly advanced in there tech but beleived their origins were in the DQ. In the end they could not except the proof that they were actually from Earth and sent Voyager a packin.

2000-05-23 00:00:00 - Re: QUESTION: About past episode "Distant Origin" - (Citizen G'Kar <Narns@allEXCEPTSPAMisurvey.freeserve.co.uk>)


Arthur Dent <Sorceror333@hotmail.com> wrote in article <3929c757.15703471@netnews.worldnet.att.net>... > I never saw this episode, but read a vague synopsis and was wondering > if the Voth are the next evolution in man No, they evolved from dinosaurs, like the Silurians in Dr Who -- -- "Oh, go away. Repress someone else." http://www.onelist.com/group/CouroPrido

2000-05-23 00:00:00 - Re: QUESTION: About past episode "Distant Origin" - (lead_ink <lead_inkNOleSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid>)


In article <392a22f8_1@binaries.vphos.net>, "Chris W." <el_capitano@geocities.com> wrote: > >"philliefan" <PhillieFan_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:3929F4B3.28D30D7F@yahoo.com... > >> I got the impression that a bunch of hadrosaurs, the Voth's direct >ancestors, >> survived the mass-extinction at the end of the Cretaceous and evolved to >the point >> where they were technologically advanced enough to leave the planet at the >first >> sign of trouble. > >Despite it's utter idiocy, that's what TPTB were trying to convey. I might >be able to buy Troodons evolving into humanoid creatures, given several >dozen million years or so with the right environmental conditions. Actually, it's left open - that's just their theory given the evidence at hand. I think it's more likely they were transplanted by some third party, like, perhaps, the Preservers from TOS. That would have been a great way to tie the show into the rich continuity of the franchise, but seeing as how the current PTB have enough trouble maintining continuity within a given episode, I guess we should be glad for what we DID get... -- Jeffrey "Maybe you should put some shorts on, or something, if you want to keep fighting evil today." (The Bowler, to Invisible Boy - MYSTERY MEN) * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!