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2000-02-26 00:00:00 - [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (sluss@no-square-canned-processed-meat.dhp.com)


C Y N I C S O R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" N as reviewed by David E. Sluss E R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing [ADMIN] Gentle reader, you came very close to losing your beloved Cynic as a reviewer this week, as I was about _this_ close to quitting Voyager for good as a result of this travesty, on top of so many others. At this point, just barely, I enjoy writing and discussing these weekly hatchet jobs enough to justify subjecting myself to the show week in and week out, but if there's much more shit of this sort in the remainder of the season, there's a good chance I'll be bailing out after the Sixth Season Summary. Stay tuned (or better yet, in Voyager's case, don't). Spoilers ahead! THE BOTTOM LINE: As this episode lacks even a smidgen of intelligence, logic, quality storytelling, respectable acting, and anything resembling a point, I am hereby declaring this the worst Star Trek episode ever made, beating out the old standbys like "Spock's Brain," "Shades of Grey," "Threshold," and even the previous holder of the worst episode title, DS9's "One Little Ship," awarded that honor just two years ago. CYNICS CORNER RATING: 0.3 MYSTERY OF THE WEEK: What were they thinking? Scratch that -- what were they smoking? An entire episode devoted to fixing a malfunctioning holoprogram in such a way that the characters in that program are not harmed? An episode in which the Captain is more concerned with protecting her relationship with a hologram than with protecting the lives of real crew members? An episode whose message is that people can learn to accept one another, even when one group of people is fictional? A sequel to "Fair Haven," previously the worst episode of the season? We all know that Voyager's writers are fresh out of ideas, but are they really this out to lunch? GOOD NEWS OF THE WEEK: Finding anything good in this episode is a difficult chore, and perhaps the only one to be found is the portrayal of B'Ellana this week. Since she's the only character who showed up with a brain, I know that seems like damning with faint praise. But she is perhaps the only character in Star Trek history to have even suggested that the power be cut off to a malfunctioning holodeck. She was also the only member of the senior staff concerned with the safety of real people more than preserving the crew's "relationships" with the fictional people of "Fair Haven." This is the only reason the episode received any points at all. Well, that and the fact that I need a little room at the bottom of the scale in case things get any worse. POOR SCIENCE OF THE WEEK: While talking to Moe on the bridge, Janeway characterizes Michael as a "300-deciwatt hologram." Either she's slamming Michael's manhood, such as it is, or Voyager's writers don't know what they're talking about (a shocking notion, I know). A deciwatt is a tenth of a watt; so Mikey uses only 30 watts of power, half of what the lamp on my desk does? Right. Maybe Voyager should go back to the iso-units... ATHIESM OF THE WEEK: The Star Trek Powers That Be, are so fearful (or contemptuous) of religion that they can't even portray it in a holodeck scenario. The Doctor portrays a Catholic priest, one who mentions harmony, loving one's neighbor, and all that jazz, but never God or Jesus Christ in his sermons. The church itself doesn't have any religious icons or pictures on display. For a holo-program that is wonderfully accurate (per Janeway's remarks in "Fair Haven"), this doesn't seem very convincing at all. WASTE OF THE WEEK: Besides the two hours of my life spent watching this episode (twice, for accuracy's sake, I'm afraid), I'd have to go with "Larry" Kim's replication of real flowers for his holographic date. What's wrong with getting the holodeck to produce holographic flowers? And what happened to replicator rationing? CONTRIVANCES OF THE WEEK: Where, oh where do we start? Even by holodeck show standards, this one is the pits when it comes to the contrived manner in which the holotechnology "functions." Among the gems this week: * A holocharacter has to be "on" in the lab before one can adjust his settings. Didn't Janeway adjust Michael's settings at the end of "Fair Haven" without him being on (when she told the computer not to allow her to change anything about him in the future)? How about: "Computer, change all Fair Haven characters so that they are unaware of changes to the program made by crew members?" * The holo-program has to be on in order to be repaired, and the real people have to stumble around the bar looking for a terminal. I can edit, for instance, my web page without it being displayed in production form; shouldn't Larry and Curly be able to do something similar? * Under the above assumption, that the Fair Haven program had to be on, why couldn't it have been frozen, so that Larry and Curly could do their work without interference from the locals, who were known to be getting surly and suspicious? * The Doctor can be hypnotized? Emitter or not, wouldn't that have to have part of the Doctor's programming? If so, why was it? The Doctor becoming "integrated" into the program, I can buy to an extent (indeed, it might have been better if this had happened sooner, as the potential loss of the Doctor's program could have been used to justify not pulling the plug on the program), but the hypnotism bit is pushing it, to say the least. * And the biggest contrivance of all: How is it that _before_ the holodeck safeties were inevitably shut off, the local holograms were able to shoot out the real holodeck computer with their holographic bullets? DISCONTINUITY OF THE WEEK: Proving that they can't keep things straight within a single show, much less maintain continuity between episodes, the writers tell us that the Fair Haven program has been running for "weeks," while later, Janeway tells Mikey that Voyager's crew have been visiting Fair Haven for "months." Relatively minor, given all of the other gaffes, but it's another symptom of Voyager's real problem: the lack of giving a shit on the part of the Powers That Be, made plain almost every week. NEXT WEEK: An exercise in retrocontinuity as another redshirt is implanted in Voyager's history. -- // David E. Sluss (The Cynic) \\ // "I'm impatient with \\ //_________ sluss%dhp.com _________\\//__ stupidity. My people have __\\ \\ Cynics Corner Interactive //\\ learned to live without it." // \\ http://users.dhp.com/~sluss // \\ Klaatu //

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Helen & Bob <chil-out@ix.netcom.com>)


"David E. Sluss" wrote: > C Y N I C S > O > R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" > N as reviewed by David E. Sluss > E > R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing > > [ADMIN] Gentle reader, you came very close to losing your beloved > Cynic as a reviewer this week, as I was about _this_ close to quitting > Voyager for good as a result of this travesty, on top of so many > others. At this point, just barely, I enjoy writing and discussing > these weekly hatchet jobs enough to justify subjecting myself to the > show week in and week out, but if there's much more shit of this sort > in the remainder of the season, there's a good chance I'll be bailing > out after the Sixth Season Summary. Stay tuned (or better yet, in > Voyager's case, don't). > > Spoilers ahead! > > THE BOTTOM LINE: As this episode lacks even a smidgen of > intelligence, logic, quality storytelling, respectable acting, and > anything resembling a point, I am hereby declaring this the worst Star > Trek episode ever made, beating out the old standbys like "Spock's > Brain," "Shades of Grey," "Threshold," and even the previous holder of > the worst episode title, DS9's "One Little Ship," awarded that honor > just two years ago. > > CYNICS CORNER RATING: 0.3 > > MYSTERY OF THE WEEK: What were they thinking? Scratch that -- what > were they smoking? What SHOULD they have been smoking? > An entire episode devoted to fixing a > malfunctioning holoprogram in such a way that the characters in that > program are not harmed? What are you, some sort of anit-holo racist? Holos have feelings too, you know. Barbarian. > An episode in which the Captain is more > concerned with protecting her relationship with a hologram than with > protecting the lives of real crew members? Well, what do YOU know about the needs of a woman in love? > An episode whose message > is that people can learn to accept one another, even when one group of > people is fictional? I SAID you were holo-racist. This proves it! > A sequel to "Fair Haven," previously the worst > episode of the season? We all know that Voyager's writers are fresh > out of ideas, but are they really this out to lunch? They'd do much better if they were vegans. > > GOOD NEWS OF THE WEEK: Finding anything good in this episode is a > difficult chore, and perhaps the only one to be found is the portrayal > of B'Ellana this week. Since she's the only character who showed up > with a brain, I know that seems like damning with faint praise. > | I KNEW you'd fall for one of those warrior women. I said you were a barbarian. Honestly, isn't there someone with just a LITTLE more delicacy? But she is perhaps the only character in Star Trek history to have even suggested that the power be cut off to a malfunctioning holodeck. Its that hot Klingon blood coming to the fore. She > was also the only member of the senior staff concerned with the safety > of real people more than preserving the crew's "relationships" with > the fictional people of "Fair Haven." She's as insensitive to their needs as you are. > This is the only reason the > episode received any points at all. Well, that and the fact that I > need a little room at the bottom of the scale in case things get any > worse. > > David, I just cannot bring myself to address the rest of this, this, this, this, THIS, this. S P O I L E R Nicely done, David. Bob

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (CDS218 <cds218@geocities.com>)


David E. Sluss wrote in message <38b82683.13943616@usenet.pitt.edu>... >C Y N I C S >O >R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" >N as reviewed by David E. Sluss >E >R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing > >[ADMIN] Gentle reader, you came very close to losing your beloved >Cynic as a reviewer this week, as I was about _this_ close to quitting >Voyager for good as a result of this travesty, on top of so many >others. At this point, just barely, I enjoy writing and discussing >these weekly hatchet jobs enough to justify subjecting myself to the >show week in and week out, but if there's much more shit of this sort >in the remainder of the season, there's a good chance I'll be bailing >out after the Sixth Season Summary. Stay tuned (or better yet, in >Voyager's case, don't). NOOOOOOO! David you can't leave us! Wednesday night, as I wallowed in the briny, fetid bowels of this episode, repenting my sins and praying for a quick death, the only thing that kept me going was the knowledge that before too long you'd come and take a flamethrower to this pile of dreck. You are our avenging angel, David. Without you, the Voyager writers can injure us with impunity! CDS

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (TomR@Fred.Net)


In alt.tv.star-trek.voyager David E. Sluss <sluss@no-square-canned-processed-meat.dhp.com> wrote: : C Y N I C S : O : R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" : N as reviewed by David E. Sluss : E : R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing : [ADMIN] Gentle reader, you came very close to losing your beloved : Cynic as a reviewer this week, as I was about _this_ close to quitting : Voyager for good as a result of this travesty, on top of so many : others. Wow, Tim Lynch bailed out a few seasons ago, and now Cynic is on the brink and Bozo's cat is watching the show for him (very good kitty!). When Voyager gets home, will anyone notice? : Spoilers ahead! : THE BOTTOM LINE: As this episode lacks even a smidgen of : intelligence, logic, quality storytelling, respectable acting, and : anything resembling a point, I am hereby declaring this the worst Star : Trek episode ever made, beating out the old standbys like "Spock's : Brain," "Shades of Grey," "Threshold," and even the previous holder of : the worst episode title, DS9's "One Little Ship," awarded that honor : just two years ago. Wait, "One Little Ship" was worse than "Move Along Home"??? : CYNICS CORNER RATING: 0.3 You were VERY generous! : MYSTERY OF THE WEEK: What were they thinking? Scratch that -- what : were they smoking? Please tell me this episode qualified for credit in the Anti-Drug Partnership Program. This is the only reason why I could see it making the air. No wait, it's double credit. : ATHIESM OF THE WEEK: The Star Trek Powers That Be, are so fearful (or : contemptuous) of religion that they can't even portray it in a : holodeck scenario. The Doctor portrays a Catholic priest, one who : mentions harmony, loving one's neighbor, and all that jazz, but never : God or Jesus Christ in his sermons. The church itself doesn't have : any religious icons or pictures on display. For a holo-program that : is wonderfully accurate (per Janeway's remarks in "Fair Haven"), this : doesn't seem very convincing at all. Yeesh, it makes Father Mulcahy look like Gregory Peck in "Shoes of the Fisherman". : NEXT WEEK: An exercise in retrocontinuity as another redshirt is : implanted in Voyager's history. It's getting so desparate on Voyager that they're recycling people! -- TomR@Fred.Net http://www.fred.net/tomr * Faith Manages...... But Willow is in Tech Support * What does a blooper tape of "The Sopranos" consist of -- the actors blowing their lines and saying, "Gosh Darn Poopie!!"? Mary Kay Bergman 1961-1999

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (hummel@world.std.com)


In article <38b96105.14378093@usenet.pitt.edu>, David E. Sluss <sluss@no-square-canned-processed-meat.dhp.com> wrote: >TomR@Fred.Net wrote: >>David E. Sluss <sluss@no-square-canned-processed-meat.dhp.com> wrote: >>: [...] I am hereby declaring this the worst Star >>: Trek episode ever made, beating out the old standbys like "Spock's >>: Brain," "Shades of Grey," "Threshold," and even the previous holder of >>: the worst episode title, DS9's "One Little Ship," awarded that honor >>: just two years ago. >> >>Wait, "One Little Ship" was worse than "Move Along Home"??? > >That's how I see it, yes. I was never so embarassed to be a DS9 >viewer than when I watched "One Little Shit." Not even Season Seven's >holo-shows were worse. As for "Move Along Home," <shrug>, it's hardly >a classic, but there's plenty worse. I did not see "Move Along Home"; I gave up my TREK masochism years ago. But the rest I did see, and I still think "Threshold" has got to be the worst TREK episode ever. -- Franklin Hummel [ hummel@world.std.com ] -- ==================================================================== "The universe is not only queerer than we imagine, but it is queerer than we can imagine." -J.B.S. Haldane ====================================================================

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Laura Ware <laware@strato.net>)


CDS218 <cds218@geocities.com> wrote in message news:899gfv$p7q$1@bob.news.rcn.net... > > > David E. Sluss wrote in message <38b82683.13943616@usenet.pitt.edu>... > >C Y N I C S > >O > >R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" > >N as reviewed by David E. Sluss > >E > >R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing > > > >[ADMIN] Gentle reader, you came very close to losing your beloved > >Cynic as a reviewer this week, as I was about _this_ close to quitting > >Voyager for good as a result of this travesty, on top of so many > >others. At this point, just barely, I enjoy writing and discussing > >these weekly hatchet jobs enough to justify subjecting myself to the > >show week in and week out, but if there's much more shit of this sort > >in the remainder of the season, there's a good chance I'll be bailing > >out after the Sixth Season Summary. Stay tuned (or better yet, in > >Voyager's case, don't). > > > NOOOOOOO! David you can't leave us! Wednesday night, as I wallowed in the > briny, fetid bowels of this episode, repenting my sins and praying for a > quick death, the only thing that kept me going was the knowledge that before > too long you'd come and take a flamethrower to this pile of dreck. > > You are our avenging angel, David. Without you, the Voyager writers can > injure us with impunity! Seconded. Thirded. Whatever! David, please, PLEASE don't leave us in our season of need!

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Laura Ware <laware@strato.net>)


David E. Sluss <sluss@no-square-canned-processed-meat.dhp.com> wrote in message news:38b82683.13943616@usenet.pitt.edu... > C Y N I C S > O > R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" > N as reviewed by David E. Sluss > E > R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing > > [ADMIN] Gentle reader, you came very close to losing your beloved > Cynic as a reviewer this week, as I was about _this_ close to quitting > Voyager for good as a result of this travesty, on top of so many > others. At this point, just barely, I enjoy writing and discussing > these weekly hatchet jobs enough to justify subjecting myself to the > show week in and week out, but if there's much more shit of this sort > in the remainder of the season, there's a good chance I'll be bailing > out after the Sixth Season Summary. Stay tuned (or better yet, in > Voyager's case, don't). > > Spoilers ahead! > But this episode already acted spoiled! > > > > > > > > > THE BOTTOM LINE: As this episode lacks even a smidgen of > intelligence, logic, quality storytelling, respectable acting, and > anything resembling a point, I am hereby declaring this the worst Star > Trek episode ever made, beating out the old standbys like "Spock's > Brain," "Shades of Grey," "Threshold," and even the previous holder of > the worst episode title, DS9's "One Little Ship," awarded that honor > just two years ago. I am thinking you are right. I can't think of an episode I hated more... > CYNICS CORNER RATING: 0.3 > > MYSTERY OF THE WEEK: What were they thinking? Scratch that -- what > were they smoking I'm not sure I want to know. What if it's catching? >POOR SCIENCE OF THE WEEK: While talking to Moe on the bridge, Janeway > characterizes Michael as a "300-deciwatt hologram." Either she's > slamming Michael's manhood, such as it is, or Voyager's writers don't > know what they're talking about (a shocking notion, I know). A > deciwatt is a tenth of a watt; so Mikey uses only 30 watts of power, > half of what the lamp on my desk does? Right. Maybe Voyager should > go back to the iso-units... I thought she said "decawatt" but that's hardly an improvement...but I hated the line, "My boyfriend is malfunctioning." Can I nominate that for worst line in Trek history? > ATHIESM OF THE WEEK: The Star Trek Powers That Be, are so fearful (or > contemptuous) of religion that they can't even portray it in a > holodeck scenario. The Doctor portrays a Catholic priest, one who > mentions harmony, loving one's neighbor, and all that jazz, but never > God or Jesus Christ in his sermons. The church itself doesn't have > any religious icons or pictures on display. For a holo-program that > is wonderfully accurate (per Janeway's remarks in "Fair Haven"), this > doesn't seem very convincing at all. Convincing? No. Surprising, given Trek? Also no. :-( That's it. This episode made me feel fed up...

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Charles <ck17@synergy.transbay.net>)


Please don't quit writing the reviews, David. I haven't watched Voyager in years, but I still read your reviews religiously to see how bad it's gotten. Your reviews take up way less time than actually watching the show, and are way more entertaining. Charles "Though we steer a course for depravity, we reach only the shores of silliness." -- Marjorie Williams, Washington Post, 2/25/00

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (hummel@world.std.com)


In article <89eip7$d70$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu>, Dennis Gaunt <dgaunt@uhl.uiowa.edu> wrote: > Voyager had great promise... For about 15 minutes, until Captain Janeway took the Peter Pan position. -- Franklin Hummel [ hummel@world.std.com ] -- ==================================================================== "The universe is not only queerer than we imagine, but it is queerer than we can imagine." -J.B.S. Haldane ====================================================================

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> Actually, I like it more the second time. I guess I just had to take it as some fun entertainment. << I watched it again last night, too. I don't know that I like it any better, exactly, but I did find some things to like. You're right, this episode was plainly meant to be a silly, over-the-top comedy. So I tried to view it in that light. It did have some fun moments. And I did like most of the crew interaction scenes, even if our heroes weren't exactly in character. The Paris-Kim bits were amusing, as usual. Also, I loved the look on Janeway's face when she heard about the cow incident. But I still think that, even overlooking the various idiocies of this ep, it has a real problem with pacing. Far too much time is spent on those boring, unappealing townspeople, who take far too long to get around to doing anything. I just did not find anything interesting or likeable about them, so their scenes were a dead loss, as far as I'm concerned. And it gave me far too much time to nitpick! <g> -- Arlie

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Brian Thorn <bsthorn@cox-internet.com>)


On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:09:31 GMT, sluss@no-square-canned-processed-meat.dhp.com (David E. Sluss) wrote: >THE BOTTOM LINE: As this episode lacks even a smidgen of >intelligence, logic, quality storytelling, respectable acting, and >anything resembling a point, I am hereby declaring this the worst Star >Trek episode ever made, beating out the old standbys like "Spock's >Brain," "Shades of Grey," "Threshold," and even the previous holder of >the worst episode title, DS9's "One Little Ship," awarded that honor >just two years ago. Oh, heavens no. You've gone way off the deep end. "Spirit Folk" was a completely pointless episode, but it wasn't nearly as appallingly bad as "Threshold" or any number of Season 2 "Voyager" episodes, or DS9's abominable "Profit And Lace" (which is far worse than the silly but harmless "One Little Ship".) "Spirit Folk" didn't do anything positive for Voyager, but unlike "Threshold" (or most of Season 2's episodes, which destroyed Voyager almost beyond the point of recovery) it didn't do any permanent damage either. Five years from now, people will still be shaking their heads in dismay about "Threshold" but will say "which episode was that again?" when asked about the completely forgettable "Spirit Folk". As far as UPN Time Killers are concerned, Voyager has done far worse than "Spirit Folk". Brian

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Bozo the Proctologist <cuerwer@juno.com>)


David E. Sluss >C Y N I C S >O >R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" >N as reviewed by David E. Sluss >E >R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing > >[ADMIN] Gentle reader, you came very close to losing your beloved >Cynic as a reviewer this week, as I was about _this_ close to quitting >Voyager for good as a result of this travesty, on top of so many >others. At this point, just barely, I enjoy writing and discussing >these weekly hatchet jobs enough to justify subjecting myself to the >show week in and week out, but if there's much more shit of this sort >in the remainder of the season, there's a good chance I'll be bailing >out after the Sixth Season Summary. Stay tuned (or better yet, in >Voyager's case, don't). FWIW, I hope you stay on for the next and last season; too often reading your reviews are far more fun than watching the actual episode. Besides, with your blend of cynical sarcasm, how can you just walk away from such a target-rich space? <EG> >Spoilers ahead! >THE BOTTOM LINE: As this episode lacks even a smidgen of >intelligence, logic, quality storytelling, respectable acting, and >anything resembling a point, I am hereby declaring this the worst Star >Trek episode ever made, beating out the old standbys like "Spock's >Brain," "Shades of Grey," "Threshold," and even the previous holder of >the worst episode title, DS9's "One Little Ship," awarded that honor >just two years ago. > >CYNICS CORNER RATING: 0.3 Feeling generous, are we? <G> >MYSTERY OF THE WEEK: What were they thinking? Scratch that -- what >were they smoking? An entire episode devoted to fixing a >malfunctioning holoprogram in such a way that the characters in that >program are not harmed? I'm wondering..... if the Trek production team spent way too much renting (or leasing or whatever) the sets for Fans Heaving, they might have a mindset for getting their money's worth, and are looking for excuses to use it..... and the season isn't over yet.... >An episode in which the Captain is more >concerned with protecting her relationship with a hologram than with >protecting the lives of real crew members? Just the fact that they have "relationships" with video games makes me wonder if the Holodoc has any psychiatric subroutines- or if they were all deleted to make room for more operas? A few weeks ago when they inflicted "Unfair Haven" on us, I speculated that one of the original purposes for the ever-erratic Holodecks was for the Captain to get their ashes hauled without compromising crew morale/chain of command by Tailhooking a subordinate..... but a *relationship* with something like that??? <Snip> >ATHIESM OF THE WEEK: The Star Trek Powers That Be, are so fearful (or >contemptuous) of religion that they can't even portray it in a >holodeck scenario. The Doctor portrays a Catholic priest, one who >mentions harmony, loving one's neighbor, and all that jazz, but never >God or Jesus Christ in his sermons. The church itself doesn't have >any religious icons or pictures on display. For a holo-program that >is wonderfully accurate (per Janeway's remarks in "Fair Haven"), this >doesn't seem very convincing at all. Looking at how successfully Vger's writers have portrayed science, history (real and Trek), and human relationships, one can only imagine what atrocities they'd visit upon us if they tried to get a grip on Catholicism or *any* non-imaginary faith. As over-the-top as Picardo was this week (I'm guessing he saw that the script would blow chunks, and decided he was just going to have some fun with it), I expect that quite a few Christians are glad that Vger isn't going to present their faiths on TV in that inimitable Vger *style.* >WASTE OF THE WEEK: Besides the two hours of my life spent watching >this episode (twice, for accuracy's sake, I'm afraid), I'd have to go That can indeed be a problem; I only watch once before reviewing an ep- and with "Spirit F*ck" even one viewing was a major struggle. >CONTRIVANCES OF THE WEEK: Where, oh where do we start? Even by >holodeck show standards, this one is the pits when it comes to the >contrived manner in which the holotechnology "functions." Among the >gems this week: >* A holocharacter has to be "on" in the lab before one can adjust his > settings. Didn't Janeway adjust Michael's settings at the end of > "Fair Haven" without him being on (when she told the computer not to > > allow her to change anything about him in the future)? How about: > "Computer, change all Fair Haven characters so that they are unaware > > of changes to the program made by crew members?" "Computer, change all 'Voyager' staff writers so that they have at least a trace of writing talent." >* The holo-program has to be on in order to be repaired, and the real > people have to stumble around the bar looking for a terminal. I can > > edit, for instance, my web page without it being displayed in > production form; shouldn't Larry and Curly be able to do something > similar? Well, they are from a society that's lost the ability to copy or back up files.... maybe it simply never occured to them that they could turn off the program while tweaking it. >* Under the above assumption, that the Fair Haven program had to be > on, why couldn't it have been frozen, so that Larry and Curly could > do their work without interference from the locals, who were known > to be getting surly and suspicious? And why would a control panel to fix a malfunctioning holodeck ONLY be accessible from the middle of said malfunctioning holodeck????? <Snip> >DISCONTINUITY OF THE WEEK: Proving that they can't keep things >straight within a single show, much less maintain continuity between >episodes, the writers tell us that the Fair Haven program has been >running for "weeks," while later, Janeway tells Mikey that Voyager's >crew have been visiting Fair Haven for "months." Relatively minor, >given all of the other gaffes, but it's another symptom of Voyager's >real problem: the lack of giving a shit on the part of the Powers That >Be, made plain almost every week. I really think the cast could have done better, just making it up as they go along..... >NEXT WEEK: An exercise in retrocontinuity as another redshirt is >implanted in Voyager's history. It's a pre-snuffed redshirt; saves time that way. <G> He-Who-Hopes-They-Stay-Out-Of-The-Holodreck-This-Week Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and smack that jerk upside the head. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (butiwascool@webtv.net)


After viewing a Bruin game --"Spirit Folk" is a joy

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Matthew Leo <matt@acrcorp.removethis.com>)


Masked Man wrote: > Masked Man---->Well, call me obtuse, but I never got the slightest > hint that the Ruzhenkos were Jewish. They presented as Russian > caricatures to me, but never as Russian Jews. Maybe it was just me; I thought the accents were supposed to be Yiddish. It wouldn't be the worst accent mixup on trek. I'm always getting these funny cross connecting associations; the first words out of my mouth on seeing Darth Vader without the mask were a whispered "It's Uncle Fester!" I still think the idea of somebody struggling to reconcile Jewish and Klingon spirituality would be make an interesting character. It might explain more of Worf's character than the soccer incident he recounted in a DS9 episode. > With Chakotay, the problem is the double bind. If he's authentic, you > get complaints of religious references where they dont belong (i. e. > on American episodic television, not Trek-verse), and of others > wanting equal time. If he's bland, he comes across as you stae: > hokey, disingenuous, etc. A losing proposition either way. In other words, it has "don't go there" written all over it. I actually don't think it is so impossible to do a plausible and respectful portrayal of Native (er, first?) American spiritual beliefs -- after all we don't know what nation Chakotay belongs to and Native American beliefs are certainly far more diverse than the range of religions practiced in Europe. Chakotay's spirituality doesn't seem as plausible, say, as that of Ed Chigliak in Northern Exposure. I never heard that anybody found NX offensive, although the depiction was frankly humorous. >We've had this discussion before....I am one of those who feel that >the whole issue of religion/spirituality, especially fundamental, >orthodox religions as they exist today...Christian or >non-Christian...have never been satisfactorily explored in Trek. >we know how Bajorans worship, but how do they worship on 24th century >Earth? Do they worship? I don't want to rehash an old thread then.Somehow, I believe that all the major religions in their liberal and fundamentalist forms will still be around, though accounting for acceleration of social change I suppose the 24th century will be as different from the 21st as the 21st will be from the fifth century. -- Matt Leo Senior Technical Consultant ACR Corp

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu)


David E. Sluss <sluss@no-square-canned-processed-meat.dhp.com> wrote: > > POOR SCIENCE OF THE WEEK: While talking to Moe on the bridge, Janeway > characterizes Michael as a "300-deciwatt hologram." Either she's > slamming Michael's manhood, such as it is, or Voyager's writers don't > know what they're talking about (a shocking notion, I know). A > deciwatt is a tenth of a watt; so Mikey uses only 30 watts of power, > half of what the lamp on my desk does? Right. Maybe Voyager should > go back to the iso-units... > "Laura Ware" <laware@strato.net> wrote: > > I thought she said "decawatt" but that's hardly an improvement... > Since "300 decawatts" would just be "3 kilowatts," yeah. In <38b92cbf.993650@usenet.pitt.edu> sluss@no-square-canned-processed-meat.dhp.com (David E. Sluss) writes: > > It was definitely deci- (pronounced de-si and meaning one tenth) and > not deca- (pronounced de-ka and meaning ten) based on Mulgrew's > pronounciation and confirmed by closed-captioning. As you say, > though, a 3000-watt hologram still doesn't seem reasonable. > Since "300 deciwatts" would just be "30 watts," yeah. The series is written, performed, directed, and produced by puling idiots with delusions of sapience. And it's *watched* by.... never mind.

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (lrucker@aruba.apple.com)


In article <20000228.202455.-908715.0.cuerwer@juno.com>, Bozo the Proctologist <cuerwer@juno.com> wrote: >"Computer, change all 'Voyager' staff writers so that they have at least >a trace of writing talent." > Ooooh, too bad I have to use my official sig. -- Working at Apple for Javasoft lrucker@aruba.apple.com Also at (but not very often) leeann.rucker@eng.sun.com

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (lrucker@aruba.apple.com)


In article <20000228.202455.-908715.0.cuerwer@juno.com>, Bozo the Proctologist <cuerwer@juno.com> wrote: >A few weeks ago when they inflicted "Unfair Haven" on us, I speculated >that one of the original purposes for the ever-erratic Holodecks was for >the Captain to get their ashes hauled without compromising crew >morale/chain of command by Tailhooking a subordinate..... but a >*relationship* with something like that??? Well, he *does* have more personality than half her bridge crew (and the other half are just extras, <bading>) -- Working at Apple for Javasoft lrucker@aruba.apple.com Also at (but not very often) leeann.rucker@eng.sun.com

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Terwilliger <burnodo-NODAMSPAM-@onebox.com>)


Matthew Leo <matt@acrcorp.removethis.com> (rec.arts.startrek.current) elaborated on previous thoughts like this: > When we meet Worf's adoptive parents, they are comical >"Jewish" caricatures, but we don't get any sense that any of the >important things about being a Jew exist anymore > umm...they were Russian...never established that they were Jews >Look at the worst holo episodes ("Take >me Out to the Holosuite" > 1)this was not a holodeck episode, in that the holodeck was simply a tool here. the story wasnt about interaction with the holodeck 2)that was a good episode >"Badda-Bing Badda-Bang"), and >the common thread is that the outcome of the story doesn't matter. > if the outcome of BBBB didnt matter, the DS9 folks would have ignored the situation and Vic Fontaine would be dead I agreed with the overall premise of your post. Voyager seems to be fluff anymore, while the other series had meaty characters and real social and moral situations to deal with.

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (kemosabe@skyenet.net)


On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:49:16 GMT, Matthew Leo <matt@acrcorp.removethis.com> wrote: |Yes, this has bothered me over the years about Star Trek. I mean, we get |doses of Chakotay's hokey, new agey (and probably offensive) pseudo |Indian spirituality, and veritable truckloads of Bajoran and Klingon |mumbo jumbo. When we meet Worf's adoptive parents, they are comical |"Jewish" caricatures, but we don't get any sense that any of the |important things about being a Jew exist anymore (I always thought that |they missed a great opportunity to explore a conflict between Worf's |Klingon heritage and the things he would have learned from his Jewish |foster parents; well, there's always Alexander). Perhaps all of human |culture has been overrun by Paramount rival Disney, so that the crew's |idea of a Catholic church would be from visits to Epcot. Masked Man---->Well, call me obtuse, but I never got the slightest hint that the Ruzhenkos were Jewish. They presented as Russian caricatures to me, but never as Russian Jews. With Chakotay, the problem is the double bind. If he's authentic, you get complaints of religious references where they dont belong (i. e. on American episodic television, not Trek-verse), and of others wanting equal time. If he's bland, he comes across as you stae: hokey, disingenuous, etc. A losing proposition either way. We've had this discussion before....I am one of those who feel that the whole issue of religion/spirituality, especially fundamental, orthodox religions as they exist today...Christian or non-Christian...have never been satisfactorily explored in Trek. we know how Bajorans worship, but how do they worship on 24th century Earth? Do they worship? -- Who was that masked man?

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Joyce Harmon <jlharmon@crosslink.net>)


Matthew Leo wrote: > > Speaking of wasted time, why do Star Trek afficionadoes hate the > proliferation of holo episodes so much? I don't think it is the holo > double talk or the fact that the action takes place in a holo world; > it's that what is at stake is in the holo world, and the effects are > only tenuously connected to the "real world" in which the characters > live. It's like watching a documentary of a kid who's trying to become > high scorer in a Nintendo game. Look at the worst holo episodes ("Take > me Out to the Holosuite", "Fair Haven", "Badda-Bing Badda-Bang"), and > the common thread is that the outcome of the story doesn't matter. On > the other hand, the best holo episodes (in my opinion "It's Only a Paper > Moon" fits in this category), what happens in the holosuite matters very > much to what will happen on the outside. > Speaking for myself, my problem with holodeck stories is that they seem to me to be indicative of a writing staff who are out of ideas. And I think the holodeck was a bad idea from the moment that TNG introduced it, though it has occasionally been used to good effect. But the 'game gone wrong' story has simply got to go. Here we are on a *starship*, in uncharted territory, and in the case of Voyager all alone without resupply or reinforcement from HQ. And the most interesting story they can tell us about these characters deals with the *games* they play? Compounding the problem is that they do want to put their characters in some kind of peril, so they always make something go *wrong* with the holodeck, and every time they do that it makes it more implausible that Starfleet would even allow the recreational use of holodecks. Imagine a scenario today where the racquetball court on the aircraft carrier Enterprise malfunctioned two or three times a year, and the malfunction was serious enough that it threatened either the lives of the players or even to destroy the entire ship and disaster was only averted at the last minute. You know darn well the *first* time that happened the racquetball court would be shut down while a team of OSHA specialists swarmed all over it, and if it kept happened, it would be shut down permanently and disassembled. The fact that the crews of the Starship Enterprise, DS9, and Voyager keep using such an obviously dangerous piece of equipment, and that Starfleet has ignored the dangers, just makes you wonder about the people of the future. Are they that reckless, their lives that boring? But of course, the real blame goes to the writers, who get tired of their own show and characters and want to play goofy dress-up far too often. Joyce

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (kemosabe@skyenet.net)


On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:15:05 -0500, Walt <Walt@Early.com> wrote: |Let me also add, it surprised me that Michael wasn't |surprised with Janeway being a Captain. Back in 1900, |a female ship Captain must have been a very rare occurrence. Masked Man--->Must have been an _impossible_ occurrence.... -- Who was that masked man?

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (AstroNerdBoy <astronerdboy@pcisys.net>)


In article <38BA71E9.B6B4D0B0@Early.com>, Walt@Early.com wrote: > Actually, I like it more the second time. I guess I just > had to take it as some fun entertainment. > > I think Janeway's "deciwatt" was just an error. Kind of > like Spock's famous "one to the tenth power" line. They > were just trying to find a unit of measure, that if someone > multiplied it by the number of total characters in the > holographic simulation, would not be too large of a number. > > BTW, aren't electronics using less and less power as > technology advances? I guess by the 24th century, anything > using a "deciwatt" would be considered to be using a LOT > of power. Maybe... > > I really enjoyed B'Ellana's line about they could always > reprogram another Michael for Janeway. I think Janeway's > actions were all justified just to allow B'Ellana to say > that line. While I applaud the writers actually addressing the hideousness of being overly concerned with holograms on the holodeck, B'Ellana saying what she said just didn't make up for what I thought was a poor episode. > > It didn't surprise me that the holo-Doctor didn't mention > much of God or Christ in his sermon. I would not expect > any hologram to believe in any religion, let alone > try to teach other holograms about God. Remember, Janeway > has mentioned that Christmas is one of her favorite > holidays. I think that is the only holiday ever mentioned. > Certainly, they don't celebrate the Forth of July, or > Labor Day. Here's the problem...the simulation is supposed to be an 'accurate' recreation of an Irish village. He's supposed to be a Catholic (sp) priest not a priest of no religion. The real reason that no mention of God is made is that it went against one of the Star Trek franchise's 'Prime Directives' which states that any 'Christian' religion will never be mentioned but all alien and non-Christian religions are open game. > > As to shooting out the holodeck control, I assume that > since the characters took control of their own simulation > (like that one dude in ST:TNG), that the "safeties" were > already off before they shot. The computer was just > verbalizing that it could not (re-)activate the "safeties" > when the malfunction happen. I assume that the computer > is suppose to turn on all "safeties" whenever a malfunction > happens (though as we all know, any malfunction always > leaves all the safeties off and locks all the exits). That's stretching it so far (IMO) that I can see through your argument! *lol* The whole holodeck problems are outrageous! > > At the end, why weren't the crew members surprised at all > to see Janeway walking the halls of Voyager with a hologram? > I would say that holograms don't typically leave the holodeck > and walk around the ship. I mean, if I suddenly saw Barney, > or Janeway in full Star Fleet garb for that matter, walking > down the hallway at work, I would be surprised. > > Next week, we will see the Doctor permanently restricted to > Sick Bay, and the holoemitter permanently given to Michael to > allow him to "visit" Janeway in her much more private quarters. :) > -- -Earl "Looking For Hits" Commander Here's a PATHETIC plea to visit my site at: http://www.astronerdboy.com/comic-strips Thanks to everyone who stops by! You're the GREATEST! Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (billmccabe@mindspring.com)


kemosabe@skyenet.net (Masked Man) wrote: >On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:49:16 GMT, Matthew Leo ><matt@acrcorp.removethis.com> wrote: > >|Yes, this has bothered me over the years about Star Trek. I mean, we get >|doses of Chakotay's hokey, new agey (and probably offensive) pseudo >|Indian spirituality, and veritable truckloads of Bajoran and Klingon >|mumbo jumbo. When we meet Worf's adoptive parents, they are comical >|"Jewish" caricatures, but we don't get any sense that any of the >|important things about being a Jew exist anymore (I always thought that >|they missed a great opportunity to explore a conflict between Worf's >|Klingon heritage and the things he would have learned from his Jewish >|foster parents; well, there's always Alexander). Perhaps all of human >|culture has been overrun by Paramount rival Disney, so that the crew's >|idea of a Catholic church would be from visits to Epcot. > >Masked Man---->Well, call me obtuse, but I never got the slightest >hint that the Ruzhenkos were Jewish. They presented as Russian >caricatures to me, but never as Russian Jews. Well, the two actors they cast are veterans of the Yiddish theater, so it seemed to me that it was the impression they were trying to convey.

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (dgaunt@uhl.uiowa.edu)


I've been an off-and-on lurker here for some time. I have to admit, this guy has nailed Voyager very accurately. I actually turned off last week's episode on the holodeck thing halfway through. I just couldn't watch anymore. Voyager had great promise... -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Dennis D. Gaunt | Internet: dgaunt@uhl.uiowa.edu | | The University of Iowa | Voice: (319) 335-4500 | | Oakdale Research Campus | FAX: (319) 335-4555 | | Iowa City, Iowa 52242 | | ----------------------------------------------------------------------

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Walt <Walt@Early.com>)


Let me also add, it surprised me that Michael wasn't surprised with Janeway being a Captain. Back in 1900, a female ship Captain must have been a very rare occurrence.

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Matthew Leo <matt@acrcorp.removethis.com>)


"David E. Sluss" wrote: > ATHIESM OF THE WEEK: The Star Trek Powers That Be, are so fearful (or > contemptuous) of religion that they can't even portray it in a > holodeck scenario. The Doctor portrays a Catholic priest, one who > mentions harmony, loving one's neighbor, and all that jazz, but never > God or Jesus Christ in his sermons. The church itself doesn't have > any religious icons or pictures on display. For a holo-program that > is wonderfully accurate (per Janeway's remarks in "Fair Haven"), this > doesn't seem very convincing at all. Yes, this has bothered me over the years about Star Trek. I mean, we get doses of Chakotay's hokey, new agey (and probably offensive) pseudo Indian spirituality, and veritable truckloads of Bajoran and Klingon mumbo jumbo. When we meet Worf's adoptive parents, they are comical "Jewish" caricatures, but we don't get any sense that any of the important things about being a Jew exist anymore (I always thought that they missed a great opportunity to explore a conflict between Worf's Klingon heritage and the things he would have learned from his Jewish foster parents; well, there's always Alexander). Perhaps all of human culture has been overrun by Paramount rival Disney, so that the crew's idea of a Catholic church would be from visits to Epcot. > WASTE OF THE WEEK: Besides the two hours of my life spent watching > this episode (twice, for accuracy's sake, I'm afraid), I'd have to go > with "Larry" Kim's replication of real flowers for his holographic > date. Speaking of wasted time, why do Star Trek afficionadoes hate the proliferation of holo episodes so much? I don't think it is the holo double talk or the fact that the action takes place in a holo world; it's that what is at stake is in the holo world, and the effects are only tenuously connected to the "real world" in which the characters live. It's like watching a documentary of a kid who's trying to become high scorer in a Nintendo game. Look at the worst holo episodes ("Take me Out to the Holosuite", "Fair Haven", "Badda-Bing Badda-Bang"), and the common thread is that the outcome of the story doesn't matter. On the other hand, the best holo episodes (in my opinion "It's Only a Paper Moon" fits in this category), what happens in the holosuite matters very much to what will happen on the outside. Kirk may have been narcissistic and priapic, but in the TOS universe, Kirk did things that mattered, practically in every episode, even when they were playing for laughs. Picard was a diplomat and warrior whose actions determined the fates of billions of people. Sisko's actions swayed the destiny of a planet and through the wormhole, of the galaxy. Say what you want about Vic Fontaine, but even he was a real moral agent outside the holo world changing the lives Odo, Kira and Nog. The Fair Haven kind of episodes turn this inside out, reinforcing the moral ineffectualness of the Voyager crew. Popping up a meta-level, the current team at Paramount doesn't have a sense that "Trek matters" in the greater world, other than as a "franchise". I believe they've taken the words of the infamous SNL skit ("It's only a show") a little too much to heart. In fact, the stories we tell ourselves matter a great deal. Storytelling is much more than entertainment; and while trek IS an entertainment franchise, if it only aims that high it falls short of what its fans expect. What kind of franchise will it be without those fans? -- Matt Leo Senior Technical Consultant ACR Corp

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Michele <belanna@uswest.net>)


Walt wrote: > > Actually, I like it more the second time. I guess I just > had to take it as some fun entertainment. > > I think Janeway's "deciwatt" was just an error. Kind of > like Spock's famous "one to the tenth power" line. They > were just trying to find a unit of measure, that if someone > multiplied it by the number of total characters in the > holographic simulation, would not be too large of a number. It happens to the best of us don't it. > > BTW, aren't electronics using less and less power as > technology advances? I guess by the 24th century, anything > using a "deciwatt" would be considered to be using a LOT > of power. > > I really enjoyed B'Ellana's line about they could always > reprogram another Michael for Janeway. I think Janeway's > actions were all justified just to allow B'Ellana to say > that line. I loved her scenes. I would have said something else, but there might be children reading this post. > > It didn't surprise me that the holo-Doctor didn't mention > much of God or Christ in his sermon. I would not expect > any hologram to believe in any religion, let alone > try to teach other holograms about God. Remember, Janeway > has mentioned that Christmas is one of her favorite > holidays. I think that is the only holiday ever mentioned. > Certainly, they don't celebrate the Forth of July, or > Labor Day. I don't remember her mentioning it. ( i have to watched the taped episodes ). Now Christmas is not really a religious holiday depending which faith you are. Christians and many of the other religions do mark it as Christ's birth day. many will do a cake on the day ( technically it is not the day he was born ). IT has been commercialized way to much. Now fouth of july and labor day is a US holiday. And since the govt is different in Star trek history I don't think we would be celebrating those holidays. Now CHristmas I can see happening. I cringed hearing the doctor. He was just doing a role and I doubt he really believes in anything other then his ego. > > As to shooting out the holodeck control, I assume that > since the characters took control of their own simulation > (like that one dude in ST:TNG), that the "safeties" were > already off before they shot. The computer was just > verbalizing that it could not (re-)activate the "safeties" > when the malfunction happen. I assume that the computer > is suppose to turn on all "safeties" whenever a malfunction > happens (though as we all know, any malfunction always > leaves all the safeties off and locks all the exits). The safties are always on unless someone saids to turn it off. For example worf when he did some of his programs. > > At the end, why weren't the crew members surprised at all > to see Janeway walking the halls of Voyager with a hologram? > I would say that holograms don't typically leave the holodeck > and walk around the ship. I mean, if I suddenly saw Barney, > or Janeway in full Star Fleet garb for that matter, walking > down the hallway at work, I would be surprised. didnt Kate tell Kim that weird happens. After 6 years of all the stuff that has happen it would surprise them at all. Besides they probably know a lot of the stuff that happened already ( gossip )or have heard it from the enterprise experience. > > Next week, we will see the Doctor permanently restricted to > Sick Bay, and the holoemitter permanently given to Michael to > allow him to "visit" Janeway in her much more private quarters. :) Oh no don't give them ideas. Michele

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (AstroNerdBoy <astronerdboy@pcisys.net>)


In article <38b82683.13943616@usenet.pitt.edu>, sluss@no-square-canned-processed-meat.dhp.com (David E. Sluss) wrote: > C Y N I C S > O > R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" > N as reviewed by David E. Sluss > E > R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing > > [ADMIN] Gentle reader, you came very close to losing your beloved > Cynic as a reviewer this week, as I was about _this_ close to quitting > Voyager for good as a result of this travesty, on top of so many > others. At this point, just barely, I enjoy writing and discussing > these weekly hatchet jobs enough to justify subjecting myself to the > show week in and week out, but if there's much more shit of this sort > in the remainder of the season, there's a good chance I'll be bailing > out after the Sixth Season Summary. Stay tuned (or better yet, in > Voyager's case, don't). > NOOOO!!! Don't quit! I really enjoy your reviews, especially after stinkers like this episode. > Spoilers ahead! > > THE BOTTOM LINE: As this episode lacks even a smidgen of > intelligence, logic, quality storytelling, respectable acting, and > anything resembling a point, I am hereby declaring this the worst Star > Trek episode ever made, beating out the old standbys like "Spock's > Brain," "Shades of Grey," "Threshold," and even the previous holder of > the worst episode title, DS9's "One Little Ship," awarded that honor > just two years ago. > > CYNICS CORNER RATING: 0.3 > > MYSTERY OF THE WEEK: What were they thinking? Scratch that -- what > were they smoking? An entire episode devoted to fixing a > malfunctioning holoprogram in such a way that the characters in that > program are not harmed? An episode in which the Captain is more > concerned with protecting her relationship with a hologram than with > protecting the lives of real crew members? An episode whose message > is that people can learn to accept one another, even when one group of > people is fictional? A sequel to "Fair Haven," previously the worst > episode of the season? We all know that Voyager's writers are fresh > out of ideas, but are they really this out to lunch? > > GOOD NEWS OF THE WEEK: Finding anything good in this episode is a > difficult chore, and perhaps the only one to be found is the portrayal > of B'Ellana this week. Since she's the only character who showed up > with a brain, I know that seems like damning with faint praise. But > she is perhaps the only character in Star Trek history to have even > suggested that the power be cut off to a malfunctioning holodeck. She > was also the only member of the senior staff concerned with the safety > of real people more than preserving the crew's "relationships" with > the fictional people of "Fair Haven." This is the only reason the > episode received any points at all. Well, that and the fact that I > need a little room at the bottom of the scale in case things get any > worse. > > POOR SCIENCE OF THE WEEK: While talking to Moe on the bridge, Janeway > characterizes Michael as a "300-deciwatt hologram." Either she's > slamming Michael's manhood, such as it is, or Voyager's writers don't > know what they're talking about (a shocking notion, I know). A > deciwatt is a tenth of a watt; so Mikey uses only 30 watts of power, > half of what the lamp on my desk does? Right. Maybe Voyager should > go back to the iso-units... > > ATHIESM OF THE WEEK: The Star Trek Powers That Be, are so fearful (or > contemptuous) of religion that they can't even portray it in a > holodeck scenario. The Doctor portrays a Catholic priest, one who > mentions harmony, loving one's neighbor, and all that jazz, but never > God or Jesus Christ in his sermons. The church itself doesn't have > any religious icons or pictures on display. For a holo-program that > is wonderfully accurate (per Janeway's remarks in "Fair Haven"), this > doesn't seem very convincing at all. > > WASTE OF THE WEEK: Besides the two hours of my life spent watching > this episode (twice, for accuracy's sake, I'm afraid), I'd have to go > with "Larry" Kim's replication of real flowers for his holographic > date. What's wrong with getting the holodeck to produce holographic > flowers? And what happened to replicator rationing? > > CONTRIVANCES OF THE WEEK: Where, oh where do we start? Even by > holodeck show standards, this one is the pits when it comes to the > contrived manner in which the holotechnology "functions." Among the > gems this week: > * A holocharacter has to be "on" in the lab before one can adjust his > settings. Didn't Janeway adjust Michael's settings at the end of > "Fair Haven" without him being on (when she told the computer not to > > allow her to change anything about him in the future)? How about: > "Computer, change all Fair Haven characters so that they are unaware > > of changes to the program made by crew members?" > * The holo-program has to be on in order to be repaired, and the real > people have to stumble around the bar looking for a terminal. I can > > edit, for instance, my web page without it being displayed in > production form; shouldn't Larry and Curly be able to do something > similar? > * Under the above assumption, that the Fair Haven program had to be > on, why couldn't it have been frozen, so that Larry and Curly could > do their work without interference from the locals, who were known > to be getting surly and suspicious? > * The Doctor can be hypnotized? Emitter or not, wouldn't that have to > have part of the Doctor's programming? If so, why was it? The > Doctor becoming "integrated" into the program, I can buy to an > extent (indeed, it might have been better if this had happened > sooner, as the potential loss of the Doctor's program could have > been used to justify not pulling the plug on the program), but the > hypnotism bit is pushing it, to say the least. > * And the biggest contrivance of all: How is it that _before_ the > holodeck safeties were inevitably shut off, the local holograms were > able to shoot out the real holodeck computer with their holographic > bullets? > > DISCONTINUITY OF THE WEEK: Proving that they can't keep things > straight within a single show, much less maintain continuity between > episodes, the writers tell us that the Fair Haven program has been > running for "weeks," while later, Janeway tells Mikey that Voyager's > crew have been visiting Fair Haven for "months." Relatively minor, > given all of the other gaffes, but it's another symptom of Voyager's > real problem: the lack of giving a shit on the part of the Powers That > Be, made plain almost every week. > > NEXT WEEK: An exercise in retrocontinuity as another redshirt is > implanted in Voyager's history. > -- > // David E. Sluss (The Cynic) \\ // "I'm impatient with \\ > //_________ sluss%dhp.com _________\\//__ stupidity. My people have __\\ > \\ Cynics Corner Interactive //\\ learned to live without it." // > \\ http://users.dhp.com/~sluss // \\ Klaatu // > -- -Earl "Looking For Hits" Commander Here's a PATHETIC plea to visit my site at: http://www.astronerdboy.com/comic-strips Thanks to everyone who stops by! You're the GREATEST! Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (AstroNerdBoy <astronerdboy@pcisys.net>)


In article <899gfv$p7q$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "CDS218" <cds218@geocities.com> wrote: > > > David E. Sluss wrote in message <38b82683.13943616@usenet.pitt.edu>... > >C Y N I C S > >O > >R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" > >N as reviewed by David E. Sluss > >E > >R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing > > > >[ADMIN] Gentle reader, you came very close to losing your beloved > >Cynic as a reviewer this week, as I was about _this_ close to quitting > >Voyager for good as a result of this travesty, on top of so many > >others. At this point, just barely, I enjoy writing and discussing > >these weekly hatchet jobs enough to justify subjecting myself to the > >show week in and week out, but if there's much more shit of this sort > >in the remainder of the season, there's a good chance I'll be bailing > >out after the Sixth Season Summary. Stay tuned (or better yet, in > >Voyager's case, don't). > > NOOOOOOO! David you can't leave us! Wednesday night, as I wallowed in the > briny, fetid bowels of this episode, repenting my sins and praying for a > quick death, the only thing that kept me going was the knowledge that before > too long you'd come and take a flamethrower to this pile of dreck. > > You are our avenging angel, David. Without you, the Voyager writers can > injure us with impunity! > > CDS > > Can I get an AMEN brothers and sisters!! AMEN!! -- -Earl "Looking For Hits" Commander Here's a PATHETIC plea to visit my site at: http://www.astronerdboy.com/comic-strips Thanks to everyone who stops by! You're the GREATEST! Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Walt <Walt@Early.com>)


Actually, I like it more the second time. I guess I just had to take it as some fun entertainment. I think Janeway's "deciwatt" was just an error. Kind of like Spock's famous "one to the tenth power" line. They were just trying to find a unit of measure, that if someone multiplied it by the number of total characters in the holographic simulation, would not be too large of a number. BTW, aren't electronics using less and less power as technology advances? I guess by the 24th century, anything using a "deciwatt" would be considered to be using a LOT of power. I really enjoyed B'Ellana's line about they could always reprogram another Michael for Janeway. I think Janeway's actions were all justified just to allow B'Ellana to say that line. It didn't surprise me that the holo-Doctor didn't mention much of God or Christ in his sermon. I would not expect any hologram to believe in any religion, let alone try to teach other holograms about God. Remember, Janeway has mentioned that Christmas is one of her favorite holidays. I think that is the only holiday ever mentioned. Certainly, they don't celebrate the Forth of July, or Labor Day. As to shooting out the holodeck control, I assume that since the characters took control of their own simulation (like that one dude in ST:TNG), that the "safeties" were already off before they shot. The computer was just verbalizing that it could not (re-)activate the "safeties" when the malfunction happen. I assume that the computer is suppose to turn on all "safeties" whenever a malfunction happens (though as we all know, any malfunction always leaves all the safeties off and locks all the exits). At the end, why weren't the crew members surprised at all to see Janeway walking the halls of Voyager with a hologram? I would say that holograms don't typically leave the holodeck and walk around the ship. I mean, if I suddenly saw Barney, or Janeway in full Star Fleet garb for that matter, walking down the hallway at work, I would be surprised. Next week, we will see the Doctor permanently restricted to Sick Bay, and the holoemitter permanently given to Michael to allow him to "visit" Janeway in her much more private quarters. :)

2000-02-29 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Bozo the Proctologist <cuerwer@juno.com>)


Barry Wong doth write thus: >Walt <Walt@Early.com> wrote: > >> It didn't surprise me that the holo-Doctor didn't mention >> much of God or Christ in his sermon. I would not expect >> any hologram to believe in any religion, let alone >> try to teach other holograms about God. > >It doesn't matter what the Doctor believes. He's "playing" a priest in a >kind of open-ended play. And Picardo played him way, *way* over the top- probably attempting to get some fun out of such a sucktacular script. It did make a bizarre contrast between the Doctor's strident over-acting (while *playing* the village priest) and the humanistic, non-denominational style of sermons he used. And while I can accept that those who programmed the Holodoc may have seen no reason to include any data about various religions in the Doctor's programming, a history buff like Paris would have certainly caught on- and certainly wouldn't have been shy about telling the Doctor to "get in character." >He ought to behave as a priest would have >behaved. I agree with the Cynic -- a church with no cross or mention of >God is simply ridiculous. If the writers are uncomfortable with the Doc >talking about God, maybe they should've made him the mayor of the town, >and he could have been speaking to people at a town meeting or some >such. "Voyager's" set designers and decorator ARE very bright and talented people, and I have to wonder about how any such omission could have *just happened.* >> Next week, we will see the Doctor permanently restricted to >> Sick Bay, and the holoemitter permanently given to Michael to >> allow him to "visit" Janeway in her much more private quarters. :) > >Now THAT would be a story worth telling. Janeway has already shown that >she doesn't really think of the Doc as a real person. If she found a way >to restrict the Doctor to sick bay and took his holoemitter for her >boyfriend, the crew would have PLENTY to talk about! If they do *another* Fans Heaving story I'm going to get *very* sarcastic. <EG> Seriously, as many different personalities they've had Cap'n Kate wear in a single ep, by now nothing could really be out of character for her. No doubt the crew could make an argument that the Doctor's ability to make house calls is more important than letting Janeway's holo-dildo go on a walkabout, but after Janeway dismissed Seven and B'Elanna's concerns over Tom and Harry's safety..... anything can happen. They say that if you give a million monkeys a million typewriters, in a million years they'll have produces a Shakespearean play..... for "Spirit Folk" I'd guess one monkey for a day, maybe a day-and-a-half. Since the villagers forgot to take over the ship during the last holodreck malfunction, they'll no doubt do that in the sequel..... He-Who-Is-Still-Having-Trouble-Believing-They-Actually-*Did*-That Good judgment comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

2000-02-29 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (James Ward <jgward@eos.ncsu.edu>)


Masked Man wrote: > > We've had this discussion before....I am one of those who feel that > the whole issue of religion/spirituality, especially fundamental, > orthodox religions as they exist today...Christian or > non-Christian...have never been satisfactorily explored in Trek. > we know how Bajorans worship, but how do they worship on 24th century > Earth? Do they worship? well there is Picards reference to Humans haveing "grown beyond the need to myths" when he got mistaken for a god in one of the TNG episodes. Not to mention, if you really think about what was done with the Bajorans, you have to question if in the ST universe religion is really supposed to exist. Think about all of the times you get the Prophet/worm hole alien discussions. DS9 did present a religion, but at the same time it was made clear that it was by some standards a false religion since we knew that the "gods" were just a type of advanced alien( which the ST people even knew enough about to know how to kill...). -- James Ward Interested in getting paid while you surf the web? Check out this site, they pay you and all you have to do is look at a few ads on the bottom of your screen. http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=eew217

2000-02-29 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - ("EvilBill[AGQx]" <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk>)


"Steven Horton" <shorton@expert.cc.purdue.edu> wrote in message news:89gv66$98 > > Don't forget TNG's "Genesis" and "Sub Rosa." I'd rather watch > Shades of Grey than any of those. At least Shades of Gray is so bad, > it's funny. Most of STTNG's season seven is so completely unwatchable > it makes Voyager look like the best show on television. > Uhhhh... "Parallels"? "The Pegasus"? "Homeward"? "Inheritance"? "Thine Own Self"? "Journey's End"? "Pre-Emptive Strike"? "All Good Things..."? UNWATCHABLE??? -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/; ICQ number: 37464244 Remove KILL-THE-SPAM from my email address to respond. Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-02-29 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (shorton@expert.cc.purdue.edu)


: Spoilers ahead! : THE BOTTOM LINE: As this episode lacks even a smidgen of : intelligence, logic, quality storytelling, respectable acting, and : anything resembling a point, I am hereby declaring this the worst Star : Trek episode ever made, beating out the old standbys like "Spock's : Brain," "Shades of Grey," "Threshold," and even the previous holder of : the worst episode title, DS9's "One Little Ship," awarded that honor : just two years ago. Don't forget TNG's "Genesis" and "Sub Rosa." I'd rather watch Shades of Grey than any of those. At least Shades of Gray is so bad, it's funny. Most of STTNG's season seven is so completely unwatchable it makes Voyager look like the best show on television. -Steve (Ooh! Ooh! And that "Warp Speed Limit" TNG episode! And "Phantasms"! And "Menage A Troi"! And that one Voyager where Janeway's arm got stretched out in that corridor!) / /\/\ steve horton \ \ / fifth year professional writing student (cs minor) at purdue \ / \ online web comic at http://go.to/thejerkstore/ \_\/\ \ swccg player & tournament director - rating 1694 \_\/ "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve it through not dying." - Woody Allen

2000-02-29 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (kemosabe@skyenet.net)


On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:03:51 GMT, revive_us@NOhotmailSPAM.com (Barry Wong) wrote: |a church with no cross or mention of |God is simply ridiculous. If the writers are uncomfortable with the Doc |talking about God, maybe they should've made him the mayor of the town, |and he could have been speaking to people at a town meeting or some |such. Masked Man---->emphatically agrees.... -- Who was that masked man?

2000-02-29 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (tcwwbh@netcom.com)


sluss@no-square-canned-processed-meat.dhp.com (David E. Sluss) writes: [...] >[ADMIN] Gentle reader, you came very close to losing your beloved >Cynic as a reviewer this week, as I was about _this_ close to quitting >Voyager for good as a result of this travesty, on top of so many >others. At this point, just barely, I enjoy writing and discussing >these weekly hatchet jobs enough to justify subjecting myself to the >show week in and week out, but if there's much more shit of this sort >in the remainder of the season, there's a good chance I'll be bailing >out after the Sixth Season Summary. Stay tuned (or better yet, in >Voyager's case, don't). [...] I still enjoy reading your reviews even though I long ago gave up watching Voyager, but I confess to wondering why you bother with it. Isn't it like shooting fish in a barrel? -- Laurinda She walked by herself, and all places were alike to her.

2000-02-29 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (revive_us@NOhotmailSPAM.com)


Walt <Walt@Early.com> wrote: > It didn't surprise me that the holo-Doctor didn't mention > much of God or Christ in his sermon. I would not expect > any hologram to believe in any religion, let alone > try to teach other holograms about God. It doesn't matter what the Doctor believes. He's "playing" a priest in a kind of open-ended play. He ought to behave as a priest would have behaved. I agree with the Cynic -- a church with no cross or mention of God is simply ridiculous. If the writers are uncomfortable with the Doc talking about God, maybe they should've made him the mayor of the town, and he could have been speaking to people at a town meeting or some such. > Next week, we will see the Doctor permanently restricted to > Sick Bay, and the holoemitter permanently given to Michael to > allow him to "visit" Janeway in her much more private quarters. :) Now THAT would be a story worth telling. Janeway has already shown that she doesn't really think of the Doc as a real person. If she found a way to restrict the Doctor to sick bay and took his holoemitter for her boyfriend, the crew would have PLENTY to talk about!

2000-02-29 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> "Spirit Folk" didn't do anything positive for Voyager, but unlike "Threshold" (or most of Season 2's episodes, which destroyed Voyager almost beyond the point of recovery) it didn't do any permanent damage either. << You have a point. OTOH, "Threshold" kept my interest while I watched it. After was over, I was aghast at how stupid and offensive it was, but while it was on, I paid attention. The main problem with "Spirit Folk" is that it's just so boring.... Neverthelessl, I think "Threshold" is still the worst. Probably people who never saw Star Trek before would find "Spirit Folk" harmless, even entertaining. While "Threshold" is embarrassingly awful to fans and non-fans alike. -- Arlie

2000-02-29 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - ("Terry L. Smith" <tlsmith@netcom13.netcom.com>)


In rec.arts.sf.tv Matthew Leo <matt@acrcorp.removethis.com> wrote: : Masked Man wrote: :> Masked Man---->Well, call me obtuse, but I never got the slightest :> hint that the Ruzhenkos were Jewish. They presented as Russian :> caricatures to me, but never as Russian Jews. : Maybe it was just me; I thought the accents were supposed to be Yiddish. : It wouldn't be the worst accent mixup on trek. No, it wasn't just you. I thought the characters came across as at least generic "Eastern-European ethnic Jewish," no matter what their "religion" was supposed to be. If they had any, of course. : I'm always getting these funny cross connecting associations; the first : words out of my mouth on seeing Darth Vader without the mask were a : whispered "It's Uncle Fester!" YES! So *that* wasn't just *me*. "It's Fester! Luke, Uncle Fester is your father!" thankyouthankyouthankyou. I also thought he looked just a bit like a rather saggy, bad-gone-to-worse Mr Potatohead, too, but not as much as he did Fester, from the original TV show. ... and speaking of Fester, and unfortunate associations, I have a video tape of a theatrical presentation by a prestigious former-Soviet-bloc company, based on some fantasy-legends; the show itself isn't all that exciting (there's way too much Soviet Ideology subliminally and overtly crammed into it), but the performances are at the least adequate, and in one case, absolutely brilliant. The man portraying the principal villain, a pretty much thankless and exhausting role, is magnificent, reeking of sliminess and threatened violence ... until the scene where it all goes to pieces (for me, anyway) - Mr Evil Villain attempts to beat and rape the Innocent Virgin ... and when she unexpectedly defends herself, he gives her a look of drunken surprise and frustration, as called for in the staging .... and, thanks to a combination of lighting, makeup, genetics, and facial-expression, the character looks at that moment almost *exactly* like Christopher Lloyd in one of his most comically manic phases. Not as LLoyd as "Fester," actually, more like he did on TAXI. "My God. It's Christopher Lloyd." And from then on, I couldn't watch that tape, brilliant performance or not, without seeing that villain as just ... farce. (Which led me to a sort of MST3K-ing of the show, but I digress.) : I still think the idea of somebody : struggling to reconcile Jewish and Klingon spirituality would be make an : interesting character. It might explain more of Worf's character than : the soccer incident he recounted in a DS9 episode. - snip assorted remarks - : In other words, it has "don't go there" written all over it. I actually : I don't want to rehash an old thread then.Somehow, I believe that all : the major religions in their liberal and fundamentalist forms will still : be around, though accounting for acceleration of social change I suppose : the 24th century will be as different from the 21st as the 21st will be : from the fifth century. There was some discussion a long time ago about this, as you say. IIRC, there was some claim that "religion" was something humanity had "outgrown," by TREK's time. there was also some implication that anyone really fervently "religious" might just be given "treatment" until he/she got over it. I do not remember whether this was actually claimed for the show, officially or semi-officially, or was just speculation by one or more fans or viewers. "I am *not* a Merry Man." - possibly Jewish Klingon - M.Q.S., Cdr. C'mell, KPS AKA The Lady in Green ... actually, I kept hoping that Worf would eventually throw an "Oy vey!" into one of his Klingon rants, but I got tired of waiting for it, kinda got tired of the show, in fact, so I don't know if he ever did. -- *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | M.Q.S. c/o T.L.S | "Don't play with that! You have no idea where | | tlsmith@netcom.com | it's been..." -- Speaker to Elevators | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

2000-03-01 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (shorton@expert.cc.purdue.edu)


EvilBill[AGQx] (evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk) wrote: : "Steven Horton" <shorton@expert.cc.purdue.edu> wrote in message : news:89gv66$98 : > : > Don't forget TNG's "Genesis" and "Sub Rosa." I'd rather watch : > Shades of Grey than any of those. At least Shades of Gray is so bad, : > it's funny. Most of STTNG's season seven is so completely unwatchable : > it makes Voyager look like the best show on television. : > : Uhhhh... "Parallels"? "The Pegasus"? "Homeward"? "Inheritance"? "Thine Own : Self"? "Journey's End"? "Pre-Emptive Strike"? "All Good Things..."? "Homeward", "Inheritance" "Thine Own Self" and "Journey's End" sucked. That leaves five good episodes out of the thirty or so in the entire season and a whole bunch of really crummy ones. -Steve (can't believe someone liked the Indian one... Wesley acted so out of character it was ridiculous...) -- / /\/\ steve horton \ \ / fifth year professional writing student (cs minor) at purdue \ / \ online web comic at http://go.to/thejerkstore/ \_\/\ \ swccg player & tournament director - rating 1694 \_\/ "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve it through not dying." - Woody Allen

2000-03-01 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (TehTigre <TehTigreNOSPAM@centurytel.net.invalid>)


EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote in message news:UsXu4.4451$C4.89371@nnrp4.clara.net... > "Steven Horton" <shorton@expert.cc.purdue.edu> wrote in message > news:89gv66$98 > > > > Don't forget TNG's "Genesis" and "Sub Rosa." I'd rather watch > > Shades of Grey than any of those. At least Shades of Gray is so bad, > > it's funny. Most of STTNG's season seven is so completely unwatchable > > it makes Voyager look like the best show on television. > > > > Uhhhh... "Parallels"? "The Pegasus"? "Homeward"? "Inheritance"? "Thine Own > Self"? "Journey's End"? "Pre-Emptive Strike"? "All Good Things..."? > > UNWATCHABLE??? Well the seventh season WAS teh worst... ewwww W/T paired - <shudder>. Anyway - I LOVED Shades of Grey <pout>. Mic

2000-03-01 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (wadding@erols.com)


Joyce Harmon <jlharmon@crosslink.net> wrote: >Here we are on a *starship*, in uncharted >territory, and in the case of Voyager all alone without resupply or >reinforcement from HQ. And the most interesting story they can tell us >about these characters deals with the *games* they play? I would have liked to have seen where the series would have gone if the Year of Hell had really happened, instead of Janeway flying Voyager into the big Reset Button on that time-ship. Steve

2000-03-01 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (yehoshua@world.std.com)


In article <38bbb16e.1085203@news.mindspring.com>, Masked Man <kemosabe@skyenet.net> wrote: >On Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:49:16 GMT, Matthew Leo ><matt@acrcorp.removethis.com> wrote: > >|Yes, this has bothered me over the years about Star Trek. I mean, we get >|doses of Chakotay's hokey, new agey (and probably offensive) pseudo >|Indian spirituality, and veritable truckloads of Bajoran and Klingon >|mumbo jumbo. When we meet Worf's adoptive parents, they are comical >|"Jewish" caricatures, but we don't get any sense that any of the >|important things about being a Jew exist anymore (I always thought that >|they missed a great opportunity to explore a conflict between Worf's >|Klingon heritage and the things he would have learned from his Jewish >|foster parents; well, there's always Alexander). Perhaps all of human >|culture has been overrun by Paramount rival Disney, so that the crew's >|idea of a Catholic church would be from visits to Epcot. > >Masked Man---->Well, call me obtuse, but I never got the slightest >hint that the Ruzhenkos were Jewish. They presented as Russian >caricatures to me, but never as Russian Jews. I remember when "Family" first aired, Yelena Rozhenko telling Guinan about learning to make "rokeag blood pie", and instantly thought (a) Rokeach makes blood pie?, and (b) that's *so* not kosher. Of course, neither Sergei nor Yelena are particularly Jewish given names, so it's entirely possible they're just supposed to be 24th century Russian peasants. I think any time you get Bikel on screen, people are going to think "Jewish," since he played Tevye on stage for so long. Hell, I have a friend who insists the Minbari are Jews because he played a ranger in "Babylon 5: In the Beginning." >We've had this discussion before....I am one of those who feel that >the whole issue of religion/spirituality, especially fundamental, >orthodox religions as they exist today...Christian or >non-Christian...have never been satisfactorily explored in Trek. >we know how Bajorans worship, but how do they worship on 24th century >Earth? Do they worship? Indeed, I find it interesting that the only reference to a genuine earth religion I can ever recall is to Diwali (the Hindu festival of lights) at the beginning of Data's Day. That's pretty impressive when you think about it: 23 years of television (not counting the animated series), and only one substantial mention of a real religion. I've wondered for years now if the writers just can't come up with any way to work in a real religion (it's not like they can't come up with reasons aplenty to work in fake religions), or if the producers just kill those scripts or scenes right off the bat. I'll probably never know. -- R. S. Y. Buchanan | "The English have no respect for their language yehoshua@world.std.com | and will not teach their children to speak it." world.std.com/~yehoshua | -- G. B. Shaw

2000-03-02 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (berli@my-deja.com)


In article <38BA71E9.B6B4D0B0@Early.com>, Walt@Early.com wrote: > I think Janeway's "deciwatt" was just an error. Kind of > like Spock's famous "one to the tenth power" line. I thought Kirk said that. > They > were just trying to find a unit of measure, that if someone > multiplied it by the number of total characters in the > holographic simulation, would not be too large of a number. Don't excuse them. These are people who are supposedly writing science fiction yet don't know jack about science *or* math, and seem to have decided that their audience doesn't either. A person with a smattering of high school math, physics and chemistry could probably spot most of the mistakes it their episodes, but it's clear they simply don't care. I mean, what the heck are "gravimetric radiation" and "isometers" anyway? (Isn't "iso-meter" redundant?) > BTW, aren't electronics using less and less power as > technology advances? I guess by the 24th century, anything > using a "deciwatt" would be considered to be using a LOT > of power. If so, how come every time the ship gets hit, one of the consoles (which ought to be no more than a terminal to the main computer) EXPLODES, starting fires and fragging the poor ensign assigned to it? > It didn't surprise me that the holo-Doctor didn't mention > much of God or Christ in his sermon. Yeah, it didn't surprise me either. Apparently the writers' sum knowledge of Catholicism comes from watching movies (made after the Legion days, of course). If they're so afraid of religion, they shouldn't have written the scene to begin with. The muddle in the episode is just painful. (If you want a real Irish Catholic fire-and-brimstone sermon, read James Joyce, _A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_. The scene is about halfway through, during a retreat, after Stephen Dedalus has started spending his nights with prostitutes. The sermon freaks him out temporarily and he attempts to reform.) > At the end, why weren't the crew members surprised at all > to see Janeway walking the halls of Voyager with a hologram? > I would say that holograms don't typically leave the holodeck > and walk around the ship. I mean, if I suddenly saw Barney, > or Janeway in full Star Fleet garb for that matter, walking > down the hallway at work, I would be surprised. It's called politely pretending not to notice. Kind of like Vash in Qpid. > Next week, we will see the Doctor permanently restricted to > Sick Bay, and the holoemitter permanently given to Michael to > allow him to "visit" Janeway in her much more private quarters. :) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! -berli <*> -- Save Star Trek from mediocrity! Join the Excelsior campaign: http://excelsior.iftcommand.com/ --- Visit the Underground Newton Transportation Site http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/6405/unts.html Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

2000-03-02 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


sluss@no-square-canned-processed-meat.dhp.com (David E. Sluss) writes: > [...] > >[ADMIN] Gentle reader, you came very close to losing your beloved > >Cynic as a reviewer this week, as I was about _this_ close to quitting > >Voyager for good as a result of this travesty, on top of so many > >others. At this point, just barely, I enjoy writing and discussing > >these weekly hatchet jobs enough to justify subjecting myself to the > >show week in and week out, but if there's much more shit of this sort > >in the remainder of the season, there's a good chance I'll be bailing > >out after the Sixth Season Summary. Stay tuned (or better yet, in > >Voyager's case, don't). [...] > > I still enjoy reading your reviews even though I long ago gave up > watching Voyager, but I confess to wondering why you bother with it. > Isn't it like shooting fish in a barrel? It's the only thing my favorite actor does do. And considering his non-exposure it might well be the last acting job he ever gets... How could I *not* watch it? Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-02 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - ("EvilBill[AGQx]" <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk>)


"Steven Horton" <shorton@expert.cc.purdue.edu> wrote in message news:89iav1 > > "Homeward", "Inheritance" "Thine Own Self" and "Journey's End" > sucked. That leaves > five good episodes out of the thirty or so in the entire season and a > whole bunch of really crummy ones. > -Steve (can't believe someone liked the Indian one... Wesley acted so > out of character it was ridiculous...) > Oh, it wasn't the Wesley part I liked it for... it was the fact that it more or less shows us how the Maquis got started - one of the links in the chain that led to the Dominion war. As for the other three that you didn't like... I'm a Data and Worf fan, so I'm a little biased ;-) -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/; ICQ number: 37464244 Remove KILL-THE-SPAM from my email address to respond. Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-02 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - ("EvilBill[AGQx]" <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk>)


"TehTigre" <TehTigreNOSPAM@centurytel.net.invalid> wrote in message news:ma3v4.86$243.59793@feed.centuryinter.net... > > Well the seventh season WAS teh worst... ewwww W/T paired - <shudder>. > Anyway - I LOVED Shades of Grey <pout>. > I could never really get past the fact that Troi and Worf had very little in common... they'd have been much better off retaining the friendship and mutual respect they already had.. By and large, though, I enjoyed Season Seven. I think, though, the sixth season was the best... with eps like "Chain of Command", "Frame of Mind", "Realm of Fear", "Man of the People", "Schisms", "Ship in a Bottle", "A Fistful of Datas", "Rightful Heir", "Second Chances" and "Timescape", most of that season was right on the money :) -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/; ICQ number: 37464244 Remove KILL-THE-SPAM from my email address to respond. Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-02 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Giles Boutel <gboutel@paradise.net.nz>)


"Laurinda Chamberlin" <tcwwbh@netcom.com> wrote in message news:89fkv9$npg$1@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net... > I still enjoy reading your reviews even though I long ago gave up > watching Voyager, but I confess to wondering why you bother with it. > Isn't it like shooting fish in a barrel? > What's wrong with shooting fish in a barrel? You get all the visceral pleasure of watching them explode into fish paste and finger food. Metaphorically speaking, of course. -Giles

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Matthew Leo <matt@acrcorp.removethis.com>)


berli@my-deja.com wrote: > > They > > were just trying to find a unit of measure, that if someone > > multiplied it by the number of total characters in the > > holographic simulation, would not be too large of a number. > > Don't excuse them. These are people who are supposedly writing science > fiction yet don't know jack about science *or* math, and seem to have > decided that their audience doesn't either. A person with a smattering of > high school math, physics and chemistry could probably spot most of the > mistakes it their episodes, but it's clear they simply don't care. OK, I've been holding off jumping on this one, because it really is a minor nit. The fact is real scientists and engineers don't use canonical units; they use convenient units. Example: capacitance is measured in farads; but the electronic component is always specified in microfarads or picofarads. Thus, if you look at a largish capacitor, it might be labeled as "3000 microfarads", never "3 millifarads". The advantage is that you don't have to do mental gynastics to visualize the capacitor or guess its various properties or what it is used for. A 3000 microfarad capacitor is probably the size of D cell, is electrolytic, leaky, and requires that voltage be applied in a specific polarity. A two picofarad capacitor is probably a tiny little orange disk that uses a ceramic dialetric, is not polarized, and you're likely to see it on some kind of computer circuit board. If a typical holo features runs from 0.1 to 1 watt; or if you need precision to the tenth of a watt, deciwatt would be a perfectly natural way specify 30 watts. You pick a set of units and stick with them. Another example, the speed of light is specified as 3x10^8 m/sec in mks units, 3x10^10 in cgs units. It is not "more correct" to use 3x10^2 megameters. Of course, the real blunder is why why anybody would care to rate holgrams in this way. It certainly is beyond me. A single firing of the main phaser banks; reconstructing a lost shuttle; going from low to high orbit; all of these things probably take at least hundreds of megajoules (er, tenths of gigajoules?) -- enough energy to run a 30 watt hologram for years. Now 300 mega-iso-flops might make more sense as a way of rating a hologram. > I > mean, what the heck are "gravimetric radiation" and "isometers" anyway? > (Isn't "iso-meter" redundant?) What the heck are "dilithium crystals" or "isolinear chips" or a "trans-warp drive" or an "ion storm"? Even "Warp Factor" is pretty squirrely -- it's got some recalibration over the years and specifying exactly what it means may be more trouble than its worth. Gravimetric radiation is a form of radiation, i.e. a means of transferring energy through space capable of shaking starships at a distance and (like every other kind of futuristic radiation) evading the ship's circuit breakers. It is not "gravity waves" because some physics wiseacre would point out that the phenonemen producing gravimetric radiation (e.g. a collapsing star) couldn't possibly produce gravity waves of a magnitude to produce the affects seen, and in any case why would a gravity wave make the helmsman's console shoot sparks? Gravity waves, if mentioned, have to conform to the laws of physics governing gravity, for example light speed propagation. This is a perfectly respectable SF device, so long as it is used sparingly and the macroscopic effects of "gravimetric radiation" don't vary wildy from one episode or another (e.g. if it can be shielded against in one but must be run away in another). Isometers are a measure of distance, but they are marked on a rubber ruler. In many cases they'll be about a meter, but they aren't necessarily so. Thus, a crippled starship may escape an explosion by travelling 500,000,000 iso-meters in a second using sub-lightspeed drives, but never 500,000,000 meters, despite the fact that Mr. Worf stands just a tad under both 2 meters tall and 2 iso-meters tall. This is a somewhat less honorable device, but still serviceable when you don't have all the research time in the world. "Uh, exactly how big can a gas giant planet be?" "Uh, dunno, better make it,er, fifty thousand iso-meters radius". Who can say a gas giant can't have a radious of 50 k ISO-meters?

2000-03-04 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (kemosabe@skyenet.net)


On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:17:40 -0500, James Ward <jgward@eos.ncsu.edu> wrote: |Not to mention, if you really think about what was done with the Bajorans, |you have to question if in the ST universe religion is really supposed |to exist. Think about all of the times you get the Prophet/worm hole alien |discussions. DS9 did present a religion, but at the same time it was made |clear that it was by some standards a false religion since we knew that |the "gods" were just a type of advanced alien( which the ST people even |knew enough about to know how to kill...). Masked Man---->The Prophets status, as it were, was kept deliberately ambiguous, IMO. Jadzia, on the day she died, wavered between the notion of advanced aliens and the traditional Bajoran view. -- Who was that masked man?

2000-03-04 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (kemosabe@skyenet.net)


On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:17:40 -0500, James Ward <jgward@eos.ncsu.edu> wrote: |well there is Picards reference to Humans haveing "grown beyond |the need to myths" when he got mistaken for a god in one of the TNG |episodes. Masked Man---->Picard's utterances on the subject of metaphysics were decidedly ambiguous, perhaps deliberately so. There is the quote you mention, and in "Devil's Due", he speaks to Data of the danger to his immortal soul. -- Who was that masked man?

2000-03-06 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Laura Ware <laware@strato.net>)


Masked Man <kemosabe@skyenet.net> wrote in message news:38c42939.59837503@news.mindspring.com... > On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:17:40 -0500, James Ward <jgward@eos.ncsu.edu> > wrote: > > |well there is Picards reference to Humans haveing "grown beyond > |the need to myths" when he got mistaken for a god in one of the TNG > |episodes. > > Masked Man---->Picard's utterances on the subject of metaphysics were > decidedly ambiguous, perhaps deliberately so. There is the quote you > mention, and in "Devil's Due", he speaks to Data of the danger to his > immortal soul. And what about that episode where an alien wanted to kill a third of the crew for experimental purposes (I forget the name)? Doesn't Picard indicate to Data he believes there's something after death?

2000-03-07 00:00:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Terwilliger <burnodo-NODAMSPAM-@onebox.com>)


I don't remember that line, specifically, but the episode is "Where Silence Has Lease." "Laura Ware" <laware@strato.net> hath spoken thus: >-Masked Man <kemosabe@skyenet.net> wrote in message >-news:38c42939.59837503@news.mindspring.com... >-> On Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:17:40 -0500, James Ward <jgward@eos.ncsu.edu> >-> wrote: >-> >-> |well there is Picards reference to Humans haveing "grown beyond >-> |the need to myths" when he got mistaken for a god in one of the TNG >-> |episodes. >-> >-> Masked Man---->Picard's utterances on the subject of metaphysics were >-> decidedly ambiguous, perhaps deliberately so. There is the quote you >-> mention, and in "Devil's Due", he speaks to Data of the danger to his >-> immortal soul. >- >-And what about that episode where an alien wanted to kill a third of the >-crew for experimental purposes (I forget the name)? Doesn't Picard indicate >-to Data he believes there's something after death? >- ICQ: burnodo(34615167) SETI@Home - http://setiathome.berkeley.edu - 10 units completed "We are ALL starstuff." - Carl Sagan

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (kemosabe@skyenet.net)


On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 07:38:55 GMT, Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: |I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses |their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew |communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of |eyeshot? Masked Man---->It's been done. It was called Think Tank, and the answer to your question is they didnt.... _ Have Gun Will Travel Wire Paladin San Franciscoo

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Michele <belanna@uswest.net>)


I has probably been 10 years since i have seen that episode. Walt wrote: > > Well, Troi helped to figured it out up on the orbiting Enterprise, > which was no help to Picard down on the planet. > > Troi mentioned that a phrase like "Juliet on the balcony" > would communicate feelings of romance, but only if one knew > the story and why Juliet was on the balcony in the first place. > > Michele wrote: > > > > and I don't think troi was in the episode. Picard and the > > alien was on the planet by themselves.

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Walt <Walt@Early.com>)


Oh, I just saw it this past week. :) Michele wrote: > > I has probably been 10 years since i have seen that episode. >

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (EvilBill <SPAM-SUCKS@I-RULE-THE-UNIVERSE.com>)


"Debby" <debbytraywickNOSPAM@ussvoyager.com> wrote in message > > LOL!!!...Now I can picture Janeway pointing to her ass while looking > at Tom... :-) > LOL! -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/ E-mail: evilbill@nutter.swinternet.co.uk. ICQ number: 37464244 Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Brian Thorn <bsthorn@cox-internet.com>)


On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 09:52:14 -0600, "Bruce Blunt" <bblunt@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU> wrote: >Unfortunately, that ep was done on TNG. "Darmok" >DS9's "Little Green Men" toyed with the idea where the first quarter of the >ep Quark and co. couldn't comunicate with the 1950 earthlings due to the >background radiation. There was also the episode of DS9, "Babel", in which some bioweapon got loose on the Station and everyone started speaking in gibberish. Brian

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (EvilBill <SPAM-SUCKS@I-RULE-THE-UNIVERSE.com>)


"Michele" <belanna@uswest.net> wrote in message news:38E0F9E4.942CFF8B@uswest.net... > I has probably been 10 years since i have seen that episode. > It was only *made* 8 years ago! <g> "Darmok"... great ep, one of my favourites :) -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/ E-mail: evilbill@nutter.swinternet.co.uk. ICQ number: 37464244 Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu)


Concerning a silent/no-lines "V'GER" episode, In <8bq7db$52l$1@News.Dal.Ca> k_coles@Husky1.StMarys.CA writes: > > I second that proposal. It would easily have the best dialogue of any > VOYAGER episode to date. Being deprived of listening to Kate Mulgrew's > voice wouldn't be any big loss either. > I'm just waiting for the episode where the staff of the show lose their > inability to think, but I suspect Satan will be needing winter clothes > before that happens. > Hey! Don't knock Kate Mulgrew's voice. I *LIKE* Kate Mulgrew's voice; it's a lot like Joan Greenwood and Kate Hepburn, two other actresses I also enjoy. It's just the lines that Mulgrew gets to speak on "VOYAGER" that should count as EPA toxic violation of airwave quality.....

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Silent Voyager Episode - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of eyeshot?

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message news:38E06132.F6D9135E@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us... > > I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > eyeshot? While I was with my daughter at her rehearsal at the weekend some of the girls did a demonstration of how to communicate without words, mainly by dance and mime and it was interesting that the chap who had organised it commented on the need for emoticons and smileys on the internet because words alone cannot convey expression. Not that I am saying Janeway should communicate by cartwheeling around the bridge waving at everyone, but it just struck me the similarity of what you are both saying <g> Lisa

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Stuart James Fotheringham <stoo@stoo.demon.co.uk>)


Seven Of Nine performing dance and Tuvok mime would make an excellent episode. ;) Stuart "Lisa" <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message news:za_D4.1173$Ym1.40557@news3.cableinet.net... > > "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message > news:38E06132.F6D9135E@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us... > > > > I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > > their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > > communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > > eyeshot? > > While I was with my daughter at her rehearsal at the weekend some of the > girls did a demonstration of how to communicate without words, mainly by > dance and mime and it was interesting that the chap who had organised it > commented on the need for emoticons and smileys on the internet because > words alone cannot convey expression. > > Not that I am saying Janeway should communicate by cartwheeling around the > bridge waving at everyone, but it just struck me the similarity of what you > are both saying <g> > > Lisa

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (TheFlinx <theFlinxx@yahoo.com>)


Tim Bruening wrote in message <38E06132.F6D9135E@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>... > >I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses >their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew >communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of >eyeshot? They would link the padds to their communicator and use them as voice synthesizers not unlike the one used by those unable to speak use today I propose the first thing they say is "why are we ripping off a Buffy episode?????"

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Bruce Blunt <bblunt@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU>)


Unfortunately, that ep was done on TNG. Picard gets transported to a planet with an unfamiliar alien race. The universal translator can understand the words the aliens are saying, but the order is mixed up. The aliens can't by the end of the ep, Troi figures out how to talk with them and everything is peachy at the end. DS9's "Little Green Men" toyed with the idea where the first quarter of the ep Quark and co. couldn't comunicate with the 1950 earthlings due to the background radiation. Veyager even talked about this problem in that ep where the ship full of intelectuals tried to steal 7 of 9. The ep. ended with Voyager destroying their "thought transmitter", and the crew not being able to talk with each other and the ship goes derelict. I think a good ep would be where the computers go partialy down- the ship still functions, but they wouldn't have the use of the PADD's and other manipulating programs; sort of like us without calculators. I'd do that just to see B'elana get pissed off at a piece of paper and pencil, spending an hour working on a problem that she would have been able to solve in 5 seconds. I could imagine that 7 of 9 and Tuvock would become swamped with people asking to crunch numbers for them. Just my two cents. Bruce "Walt" <Walt@Early.com> wrote in message news:38E0B8DD.94A7596A@Early.com... > Just how important is the comm system and the universal > translators? Instead of their ability to talk, how about > their ability to be understood. Janeway would talk in > English, but B'lana, knowing only Klingon, would not > understand. I wonder if even Tuvok knows English due to > the overall dependency on the universal translators. > > Tim Bruening wrote: > > > > I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > > their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > > communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > > eyeshot?

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - ("Eric D. Berge" <eric_berge@hotmail.com>)


Tim Bruening wrote: > > I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > communicate? "Seven of Mime"? > How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > eyeshot? Email? No, wait, they don't have that in the 24th C. -- Eric Berge --------------------------------------------------- Clay lies still, but blood's a rover Breath's a ware that will not keep Up, lad! When the journey's over There'll be time enough to sleep. - A.E.Housman, "Reveille" ---------------------------------------------------

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (geoduck@usa.net)


On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 09:52:14 -0600, "Bruce Blunt" <bblunt@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU> wrote: >Unfortunately, that ep was done on TNG. Picard gets transported to a planet >with an unfamiliar alien race. The universal translator can understand the >words the aliens are saying, but the order is mixed up. The aliens can't by >the end of the ep, Troi figures out how to talk with them and everything is >peachy at the end. (snip) FWIW, the order wasn't 'mixed up'. The aliens spoke only in metaphors. -- Geoduck geoduck@usa.net http://www.olywa.net/cook

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Michele <belanna@uswest.net>)


and I don't think troi was in the episode. Picard and the alien was on the planet by themselves. Geoduck wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 09:52:14 -0600, "Bruce Blunt" > <bblunt@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU> wrote: > > >Unfortunately, that ep was done on TNG. Picard gets transported to a planet > >with an unfamiliar alien race. The universal translator can understand the > >words the aliens are saying, but the order is mixed up. The aliens can't by > >the end of the ep, Troi figures out how to talk with them and everything is > >peachy at the end. > > (snip) > > FWIW, the order wasn't 'mixed up'. The aliens spoke only in metaphors. > -- > Geoduck > geoduck@usa.net > http://www.olywa.net/cook

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (glr@mailcity.com)


Bruce Blunt bblunt@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU wrote in <8bqkfa$4gjm$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>: .<snipped> >I think a good ep would be where the computers go partialy down- the >ship still functions, but they wouldn't have the use of the PADD's and >other manipulating programs; sort of like us without calculators. I'd do >that just to see B'elana get pissed off at a piece of paper and pencil, >spending an hour working on a problem that she would have been able to >solve in 5 seconds. I could imagine that 7 of 9 and Tuvock would become >swamped with people asking to crunch numbers for them. > >Just my two cents. I like that. It would be interesting. A way to get to see how each character copes and as such we'd get to see some character development. Something where the focus was not on some new anomaly or alien threat but just the crew and how they cope. Yep, I like that. Gisele > >Bruce --Ubi dubium ibi libertas--

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Walt <Walt@Early.com>)


Well, Troi helped to figured it out up on the orbiting Enterprise, which was no help to Picard down on the planet. Troi mentioned that a phrase like "Juliet on the balcony" would communicate feelings of romance, but only if one knew the story and why Juliet was on the balcony in the first place. Michele wrote: > > and I don't think troi was in the episode. Picard and the > alien was on the planet by themselves.

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of eyeshot? << She would send out runners with padds bearing written instructions...oh, wait, they've done that, haven't they? <g> -- Arlie

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Daniel <daniel.y@bigfoot.com>)


On 28 Mar 2000 11:43:51 GMT, arlie88@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) wrote: >She would send out runners with padds bearing written instructions...oh, wait, >they've done that, haven't they? <g> I have a quick question - I know that everything people say in ST universe is automatically translated by Universal Translator so that everyone else can understand them... Is there like a Universal Translator built into PADDs? If there isn't, it would be kinda comical, for example, to have Tuvok trying to understand Neelix's report, which is written in talaxian, or something. <g> >-- Arlie Daniel

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (k_coles@Husky1.StMarys.CA)


In article <38E06132.F6D9135E@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> writes: > >I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses >their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew >communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of >eyeshot? I second that proposal. It would easily have the best dialogue of any VOYAGER episode to date. Being deprived of listening to Kate Mulgrew's voice wouldn't be any big loss either. I'm just waiting for the episode where the staff of the show lose their inability to think, but I suspect Satan will be needing winter clothes before that happens.

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Debby" < > On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:36:47 GMT, "Lisa" > <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote: > > > > >"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message > >news:38E06132.F6D9135E@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us... > >> > >> I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > >> their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > >> communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > >> eyeshot? > > > >While I was with my daughter at her rehearsal at the weekend some of the > >girls did a demonstration of how to communicate without words, mainly by > >dance and mime and it was interesting that the chap who had organised it > >commented on the need for emoticons and smileys on the internet because > >words alone cannot convey expression. > > > >Not that I am saying Janeway should communicate by cartwheeling around the > >bridge waving at everyone, but it just struck me the similarity of what you > >are both saying <g> > > > >Lisa > > > > LOL!!!...Now I can picture Janeway pointing to her ass while looking > at Tom... :-) ROTFLOL, what an image!!!

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (WWS <wschmidt@tyler.net>)


TheFlinx wrote: > > Tim Bruening wrote in message <38E06132.F6D9135E@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>... > > > >I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > >their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > >communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > >eyeshot? > > They would link the padds to their communicator and use them as voice > synthesizers not unlike the one used by those unable to speak use today > > I propose the first thing they say is "why are we ripping off a Buffy > episode?????" I think it's a great idea, the "gentlemen" could be 7 aliens. Except this time they would steal all the hearts, and no one would figure out how to stop them, and the crew would all be dead. There's your surprise ending for Voyager! -- __________________________________________________WWS_____________ Under a new proposed law, all urban legends and those who spread them will be subject to an "urban legend tax". Please spam this to everyone you know. Tell them to mailbomb their representatives. Stop bill 404C, the "Urban Legend Tax" bill!

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Walt <Walt@Early.com>)


Just how important is the comm system and the universal translators? Instead of their ability to talk, how about their ability to be understood. Janeway would talk in English, but B'lana, knowing only Klingon, would not understand. I wonder if even Tuvok knows English due to the overall dependency on the universal translators. Tim Bruening wrote: > > I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > eyeshot?

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Michele <belanna@uswest.net>)


b'elanna knows english because she grew up on a human colony for a few years. Besides hasn't she always said she didn't know a whole lot of klingon language. Walt wrote: > > Just how important is the comm system and the universal > translators? Instead of their ability to talk, how about > their ability to be understood. Janeway would talk in > English, but B'lana, knowing only Klingon, would not > understand. I wonder if even Tuvok knows English due to > the overall dependency on the universal translators. > > Tim Bruening wrote: > > > > I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > > their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > > communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > > eyeshot?

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (DCCentre@webtv.net)


Since it's becoming obvious the "inability to communicate" storyline has been done recently on "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" as well as other mentioned ST series, here's a couple of storylines and plots that can be considered: -Voyager encounters the Jem' Hadar in the Delta Quadrant: the reinforcements that Capt. Sisko asked (begged?) the Prophets (wormhole aliens) to stop at the beginning of the Dominion War. ( I can't remember the episode title) -Voyager explores a new planet with a primitive culture and discovers it's ruled by a Founder who doesn't know his true origins: It was established in ST:DS9 that the Founders sent 100 baby changlings across the galaxy. Wouldn't some end up in the Delta Quadrant? -Chakotay discovers one of his Maquis crew is a Founder. His crew has been infiltrated by everyone else (Starfleet and Cardassians) why not the Dominion?

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (erilarloFRY@SPAMwin.bright.net)


In article <mDS44gN478te092yn@muq.org>, anti@spamming.org ([ Dr. Jeff ]) wrote: > Fwiw, though, I like the idea. Anything different will make > Voyager that much less annoying. > Why would anyone watch a show he or she found annyoying?????? -- Mary Loomer Oliver (aka erilar) Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.win.bright.net/~erilarlo

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (EvilBill <SPAM-SUCKS@I-RULE-THE-UNIVERSE.com>)


"J. Potts" <navoff@pubs.ih.lucent.com> wrote in message > In article <nE9E4.1738$jk1.33835@nnrp4.clara.net>, > EvilBill <SPAM-SUCKS@I-RULE-THE-UNIVERSE.com> wrote: > > > >"Darmok"... great ep, one of my favourites :) > > A co-worker of mine was in a business meeting that was not going > well. At one point one of the other people in the meeting said, > "Shaka, when the walls fell." My co-worker nearly fell out of her > chair laughing. The rest of the folks at the meeting were looking > at the two of them like they had both just lost their minds. > LOL! :) I suppose the rest of them were kinda "Chinza at the court of silence" <g> -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/ E-mail: evilbill@nutter.swinternet.co.uk. ICQ number: 37464244 Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Katherine Burgess <kburgess@crrstv.net>)


Stuart James Fotheringham <stoo@stoo.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:954332945.16708.0.nnrp-03.9e982d90@news.demon.co.uk... > How do we know that it was an English speaking colony. They could be > Mexican, or French Canadian, or Italian, etc. > > Or are we assuming that English will be the global language of the future? Of course we are!! This is called "ethnocentricism", and we are guilty of it, whether it is now or 500 years from now. I can remember seeing Alex Hailey's "Roots", and quite enjoying it. A few years later, I watched the same mini-series in French, and was quite taken aback that the native Africans were speaking French!!! And yet, it didn't amaze me at all when they spoke perfect English the first time 'round. Katherine

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (James Ellis <ellisj@cadvision.com>)


erilar wrote: > > In article <mDS44gN478te092yn@muq.org>, anti@spamming.org ([ Dr. > Jeff ]) wrote: > > Fwiw, though, I like the idea. Anything different will make > > Voyager that much less annoying. > > > Why would anyone watch a show he or she found annyoying?????? We really gotta come up with a "Why Watch a Show you Hate?" FAQ... Biff -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Me? Lady, I'm your worst nightmare - a pumpkin with a gun. [...] Euminides this! " - Mervyn, the Sandman #66 -------------------------------------------------------------------

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


"[ Dr. Jeff ]" wrote: > In article <38E06132.F6D9135E@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, > Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: > > > >I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > >their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > >communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > >eyeshot? > > Wouldn't that be infringing ont the "Hush" episode of Buffy:TVS? > They did it first (at least so far as I can tell) In fact, the Buffy "Hush" episode is what gave me the idea for a silent Voyager episode!

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (goldfam707@aol.com)


Don't forget the DS9 episode "Babel". Everybody on the station gets a disease that causes aphasia--a dysfunction in the brain that renders him incapable of expressing himself to others. Everybody talking gibberish was pretty funny. Although it didn't silence anybody. It did prevent everybody from talking to each other. Ed Goldberg goldfam707@aol.com

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Stuart James Fotheringham <stoo@stoo.demon.co.uk>)


How do we know that it was an English speaking colony. They could be Mexican, or French Canadian, or Italian, etc. Or are we assuming that English will be the global language of the future? Stuart "Michele" <belanna@uswest.net> wrote in message news:38E0BAC6.87DBB9F@uswest.net... > b'elanna knows english because she grew up on a human colony > for a few years. Besides hasn't she always said she didn't > know a whole lot of klingon language. > > Walt wrote: > > > > Just how important is the comm system and the universal > > translators? Instead of their ability to talk, how about > > their ability to be understood. Janeway would talk in > > English, but B'lana, knowing only Klingon, would not > > understand. I wonder if even Tuvok knows English due to > > the overall dependency on the universal translators. > > > > Tim Bruening wrote: > > > > > > I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > > > their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > > > communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > > > eyeshot?

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"J. Potts" <navoff@pubs.ih.lucent.com> wrote in message news:8btf6f$ie5@ssbunews.ih.lucent.com... > In article <nE9E4.1738$jk1.33835@nnrp4.clara.net>, > EvilBill <SPAM-SUCKS@I-RULE-THE-UNIVERSE.com> wrote: > > > >"Darmok"... great ep, one of my favourites :) > > > A co-worker of mine was in a business meeting that was not going > well. At one point one of the other people in the meeting said, > "Shaka, when the walls fell." My co-worker nearly fell out of her > chair laughing. The rest of the folks at the meeting were looking > at the two of them like they had both just lost their minds. > ROTFLOL! That is so funny!

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (WWS <wschmidt@tyler.net>)


Tim Bruening wrote: > > "[ Dr. Jeff ]" wrote: > > > In article <38E06132.F6D9135E@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, > > Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: > > > > > >I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > > >their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > > >communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > > >eyeshot? > > > > Wouldn't that be infringing ont the "Hush" episode of Buffy:TVS? > > They did it first (at least so far as I can tell) > > In fact, the Buffy "Hush" episode is what gave me the idea for a silent > Voyager episode! It wasn't the fact that most Voyager episodes would play better if the soundtrack was erased and some nice music was played instead? -- __________________________________________________WWS_____________ Under a new proposed law, all urban legends and those who spread them will be subject to an "urban legend tax". Please spam this to everyone you know. Tell them to mailbomb their representatives. Stop bill 404C, the "Urban Legend Tax" bill!

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (wdstarr@crl.com)


In article <8br7at$dd2@news.csus.edu>, gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore) said: > Hey! Don't knock Kate Mulgrew's voice. I *LIKE* Kate Mulgrew's > voice; it's a lot like Joan Greenwood and Kate Hepburn, two other > actresses I also enjoy. Ever watched "Profiler" this season, after Jamie Luner replaced Ally Walker in the lead? I swear, sometimes Luner sounds more like Mulgrew than Mulgrew does... -- William December Starr <wdstarr@crl.com>

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (navoff@pubs.ih.lucent.com)


In article <nE9E4.1738$jk1.33835@nnrp4.clara.net>, EvilBill <SPAM-SUCKS@I-RULE-THE-UNIVERSE.com> wrote: > >"Darmok"... great ep, one of my favourites :) A co-worker of mine was in a business meeting that was not going well. At one point one of the other people in the meeting said, "Shaka, when the walls fell." My co-worker nearly fell out of her chair laughing. The rest of the folks at the meeting were looking at the two of them like they had both just lost their minds. -- JRP "How many slime-trailing, sleepless, slimy, slobbering things do you know that will *run and hide* from your Eveready?" --Maureen Birnbaum, Barbarian Swordsperson

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (TheShredder <THESHREDDER1haveaball@prodigy.net>)


I always thought Mulgrew sounded like Jane Curtain, of SNL fame.

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Karen Kaiser <ci578@freenet.buffalo.edu>)


> I propose the first thing they say is "why are we ripping off a Buffy > episode?????" > Actually Buffy ripped off a Space Above and Beyond ep called Who Monitors the Birds. The ep focused on Cooper Hawkes:Rodney Rowland and had almost no speech at all. Everything had to visual.

2000-03-30 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com>)


On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:12:38 -0600, erilarloFRY@SPAMwin.bright.net (erilar) wrote: > Why would anyone watch a show he or she found annyoying?????? Why do people rubberneck on highways when there's injurred, even though they know that the sight of blood makes them queasy? -- -=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli (((\ \> /_1 ` (\\\\ \_/ / -=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- \ _/ / /

2000-03-30 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com>)


On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:27:25 +0100, "Stuart James Fotheringham" <stoo@stoo.demon.co.uk> wrote: >How do we know that it was an English speaking colony. They could be >Mexican, or French Canadian, or Italian, etc. > >Or are we assuming that English will be the global language of the future? Christ, hasn't this been covered ad nausea? I thought that for the sake of the viewers, it's heard in English (unless dubbed into another language). It's been stated in such episodes as "Little Green Men", "Sanctuary" and a few TNG episodes, that everyone speaks their own language and the Universal Translators in their com-badges (or in the case of the Ferrengi, their ears), translates it automatically to the language of choice. -- -=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli (((\ \> /_1 ` (\\\\ \_/ / -=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- \ _/ / /

2000-03-30 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Floyd <curlystacheSPAM@hotmail.com>)


Funny,.. They are all silent for me,.. Well, since about a year and a half ago. In the short time I have had to live in a world of silence I have noticed much more about some things including STV. One is that the actors in STV are, for the most part, pretty good. The foul local TV station that broadcast this series has major problems with the captioning and it comes out garbled. I usually just watch the show and try and interpret what is going on in the story by the movements and expressions of the actors and by following the direction. The primary problem with this is, of course, the fact that much of the genre relies on vague science or plot devices that are hinted at in sparse, blanketing dialogue. Much can be said for the unstated. Tim Russ' performance early on in this year was phenomenal. I could understand much of that episode without need for words. Some for the episode where the were caught by the planet on which time occurred much more quickly then on Voyager. Plenty of the better moments in life occur without words. When a child looks at you and the smile in their eyes immediately causes you to smile or when your love simply puts a hand in the middle of your back it 'says' more than words. I kinda like the idea for the same reason I liked the episode with Picard and the alien trapped on a planet. I ate that episode up. It got to one of the core existential problems of the human condition. At best communication is fragile. Consider the fact that at minimum 8% of the US is deaf. Do you know any American Sign Language? If not then that means that you will never know the thoughts of those people. You have just made your ability to communicate with that segment of the population more difficult and perhaps impossible. If you wish you can go here http://dww.deafworldweb.org/ and try and regain some access to those people you have lost. For further rant I will talk about Star Trek "Insurrection." A friend of mine had given me a box of holographic suckers a few years ago that were Star Trek themed. Since they were 'collectibles' (giggle) I decided I would only eat them while going to the theater to watch ST films. Unfortunately I was deaf when "Insurrection" was released and didn't bother to go the see it at the theater. There are captioning systems for film but most theaters can't seem to find a reason to take the courtesy to provide this service. Regal Cinema's (they have a near deadlock on the 35 or so screens in the area) is one of the worst culprits and don't seem care about this fact on a nationwide level. If you care to help and try to open up the theater experience for the deaf go here http://captions.org/petition.cfm and add your name to this petition. Or, the next time you go to a theater, ask the manager if they have taken any measures to accommodate the deaf. If nothing else you might make them feel crappy for the rest of the day because "No one understands. Its not my decision. I just work here and don't own the company. I really care but no one knows what I have to deal with." Must be terrible for those corporations and people to not be able to communicate and be understood. Here kid,.. You want a sucker? I won't be able to eat them anytime soon. I understand. If you have read this far and get all bent out of shape over my rant try this: Take your arms and cross them at the wrist forming an X. The wrists should be touching each other on their interior surfaces. Then 'clap' those wrists together several times rapidly and then point at yourself with an index finger. ; ) Floyd E. Shock "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message news:38E06132.F6D9135E@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us... > > I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > eyeshot?

2000-03-30 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (navoff@pubs.ih.lucent.com)


In article <OF5qdJkm$GA.342@cpmsnbbsa04>, Floyd <curlystacheSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote: >The foul local TV station that >broadcast this series has major problems with the captioning and it comes >out garbled. If it's as bad as the captioning done for any of the local news programs, I feel for you. Granted, the captioning for a live broadcast is harder, but it's amazing how garbled things can get. And in a report with someone's name used multiple times, the name can be spelled a different way each time (multiple syllable words often come out as a separate word for each syllable). However, for most TV shows, I believe that the captioning happens before it is uploaded to the satellites and sent to the local stations. I know people complained about Babylon 5's captioning. Supposedly, the company responsible for doing the closed captioning was being given the scripts to work from (so that they could get a more accurate spelling of things) but didn't appear to actually be using them, at least not based on some of the very badly captioned episodes. -- JRP "How many slime-trailing, sleepless, slimy, slobbering things do you know that will *run and hide* from your Eveready?" --Maureen Birnbaum, Barbarian Swordsperson

2000-03-31 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - ("David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006@email.msn.com>)


Tim Bruening wrote in message <38E06132.F6D9135E@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>... > >I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses >their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew >communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of >eyeshot? I dunno, but if they went into silent Keystone Cops comedy....

2000-03-31 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Stuart James Fotheringham <stoo@stoo.demon.co.uk>)


Wasn't the entire point of this thread that the universal translators weren't working! Stuart "Merrick Baldelli" <mbaldelli@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:m387esoplhir4sq1aio0sc1tab8o8bim87@4ax.com... > On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:27:25 +0100, "Stuart James Fotheringham" > <stoo@stoo.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > >How do we know that it was an English speaking colony. They could be > >Mexican, or French Canadian, or Italian, etc. > > > >Or are we assuming that English will be the global language of the future? > > Christ, hasn't this been covered ad nausea? I thought that > for the sake of the viewers, it's heard in English (unless dubbed into > another language). It's been stated in such episodes as "Little Green > Men", "Sanctuary" and a few TNG episodes, that everyone speaks their > own language and the Universal Translators in their com-badges (or in > the case of the Ferrengi, their ears), translates it automatically to > the language of choice. > > > -- > -=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > _( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli > (((\ \> /_1 ` > (\\\\ \_/ / > -=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > \ _/ > / /

2000-03-31 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (TomR@Fred.Net)


This post on Tue, 28 Mar 2000 07:38:55 GMT would probably sound more commanding if Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wasn't wearing the Yummy rec.arts.startrek.current Pajamas: : I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses : their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew : communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of : eyeshot? Walking around with Dry Marker Boards strapped to their necks. [Scene: Seven points to her heart, Paris mouths "Boobies?"] [Scene: Janeway shakes fist up and down, eliciting weird facial reactions from the crew.] Does this mean "The Gentlemen" take over Voyager? -- TomR@Fred.Net http://www.fred.net/tomr * Faith Manages...... But Willow is in Tech Support * At the Movies: Jennifer Love Hewitt as Audrey Hepburn in I KNOW WHAT YOU ATE FOR BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S "This President is not above the law... dumb@$$!!!" - Federation President Red Forman, "That Undiscovered Star Trek 6 Movie" Mary Kay Bergman 1961-1999 - http://www.wackyvoices.com

2000-04-01 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (kemosabe@skyenet.net)


On Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:35:17 -0500, Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com> wrote: | Christ, hasn't this been covered ad nausea? I thought that |for the sake of the viewers, it's heard in English (unless dubbed into |another language). It's been stated in such episodes as "Little Green |Men", "Sanctuary" and a few TNG episodes, that everyone speaks their |own language and the Universal Translators in their com-badges (or in |the case of the Ferrengi, their ears), translates it automatically to |the language of choice. Masked Man--->Actually, it's all spoken in English, unless it's dubbed into another language, and we all just pretend they're all speaking individual languages. Communication is one of those major nits that is always compromised for the sake of good drama. We've talked before about all kinds of Trek tech that couldnt exist, and I feel the so-called universal translator will be one of them.... _ Have Gun Will Travel Wire Paladin San Franciscoo

2000-04-01 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Arial Bold <arialbold@worldnet.att.net>)


Masked Man wrote in message <38e76776.12599113@news.mindspring.com>... >Masked Man--->Actually, it's all spoken in English, unless it's dubbed >into another language, and we all just pretend they're all speaking >individual languages. > >Communication is one of those major nits that is always compromised >for the sake of good drama. We've talked before about all kinds of >Trek tech that couldnt exist, and I feel the so-called universal >translator will be one of them.... Wasn't that the episode about the Horta with all her eggs, and how know one could communicate with her because she had silicone implants. And so the universal translator was useless on her. So they had Spock give her the mind pinch. Before that they did think she was a louse, but then they found out she was not. So they fortunately found out she was portecting her eggs, And left her aloen. With her babies. Arial "let's take a trip together headlong into the irrestible orbit, breathing the cold black space with the glistening edges. Let's take a trip me and you. Let's go the scenic route"--Morphine

2000-04-08 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Pie <sweetiepie_1966@yahoo.com>)


Arial Bold <arialbold@worldnet.att.net> wrote > Masked Man wrote > >Masked Man--->Actually, it's all spoken in English, unless it's dubbed > >into another language, and we all just pretend they're all speaking > >individual languages. > > > >Communication is one of those major nits that is always compromised > >for the sake of good drama. We've talked before about all kinds of > >Trek tech that couldnt exist, and I feel the so-called universal > >translator will be one of them.... > > > Wasn't that the episode about the Horta with all her eggs, and how know one > could communicate with her because she had silicone implants. And so the > universal translator was useless on her. So they had Spock give her the > mind pinch. Before that they did think she was a louse, but then they found > out she was not. So they fortunately found out she was portecting her eggs, > And left her aloen. With her babies. Nope, not quite. "Devil in the Dark", the episode to which you refer did not talk about any reason why the universal translator would not work. Not quite sure what the mention of silicone implants has to do with a Horta, or for that matter a Universal Translator. There was no "mind pinch" and the Horta was never thought to be a "louse". The story was about a mining collony beset by mysterious deaths amoung it's crew, it turned out that a rock creature, consisting primarily of Silicon, was defending itself after the miners had inadvertently broken into it's hatchery. The creature was able to communicate by burning "No kill I" as a message into the stone when Kirk cornered it. Spock attempted a mind meld with the Horta in order that they commuincate with what was now undoubtedly an intelligent creature. They needed the Horta to tell them where a special piece of hardware, that it had taken, was. Also they learned of it's civilisation in the rock, they eggs, the hatchery and what had happened with the miners, and it's intense pain at dying without being able to protect it's unborn chirldren. Eventually Dr McCoy cured it after uttering two classic lines "Dammit Jime, I'm a Doctor not a brick-layer" and "By golly, I'm beginning to think I could cure a rainy day.", and the Horta and her children helped the miners by assisting them in tunneling and prospecting. A symbiotic relationship between the miners and Horta was established. Universal translators were never proposed as a means to communicate simply because the beast was too alien. You know, That is actually one of my favourite TOS episodes, and to me demonstrates one of the things that separates TOS with Voyager. Even with tiny budgets and silly costumes TOS still managed to produce compelling drama and story, something that Voyager in spite of it's budget and technical sophistication constantly fails at.

2000-04-08 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (geoduck@usa.net)


On Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:39:55 +0100, "Pie" <sweetiepie_1966@yahoo.com> wrote: >Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote >> >> I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew >loses >> their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew >> communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of >> eyeshot? > >Hmmm... they *are* surrounded by computer systems, and we know that >tactile displays and command consoles are available to them, remember >Tuvok in Year of Hell? If they weren't able to talk to each other I >expect their shipboard equivalent of ICQ would get a lot of excercise. I >just hope they remember how to type. "A keyboard. How quiant" -Montgomery Scott -- Geoduck geoduck@usa.net http://www.olywa.net/cook

2000-04-08 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Pie <sweetiepie_1966@yahoo.com>)


Techlab Photo Rescue Inc wrote > On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:27:25 +0100, "Stuart James Fotheringham" > <stoo@stoo.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > >How do we know that it was an English speaking colony. They could be > >Mexican, or French Canadian, or Italian, etc. > > > >Or are we assuming that English will be the global language of the future? > > That's a 'given' in Science Fiction. It's not called English, it's > called "Standard" when the issue is mentioned, but it's English > nonetheless. Reading a few Azimov novels, or for that matter any science fiction, would quickly demonstrate this. > I think Trek even refers to this, but I can't remember where or when. TOS mentioned it. I think that it's been mentioned whenever the universal translator is discussed, for example in "Little Green Men" the DS9 Episode where Quark et al go back in time to Roswell. A fun episode, but one that discussed the translator and language as well. > Yep.. I think English is the universal language of the Federation by > the time we get to peek into the 'future'. I could be wrong though. English itself might not be, but it's rather irrelevent, we watch a TV show, produced in a country that primarily speaks English and is targetted at English speaking viewers. It would seem rather foolish to saddle us with lots of dubbing or subtitles in order to reflect other languages. Instead we suspend our disbelief, I guess that Mr Fotheringham needs to think about this topic a little more.

2000-04-08 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Pie <sweetiepie_1966@yahoo.com>)


TheFlinx <theFlinxx@yahoo.com> wrote > Tim Bruening wrote in message <38E06132.F6D9135E@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>... > > > >I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > >their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > >communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > >eyeshot? > > They would link the padds to their communicator and use them as voice > synthesizers not unlike the one used by those unable to speak use today > > I propose the first thing they say is "why are we ripping off a Buffy > episode?????" Or for that matter a DS9 episode. In an early ep of DS9 the crew are stricken by a virus that leaves them able to actually speak, but scrambles the language centers int heir brains, so that they cannot communicate at all. It was interesting, and very similar to this. Obviously Buffy stole the idea....<grin>

2000-04-08 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Pie <sweetiepie_1966@yahoo.com>)


Stuart James Fotheringham <stoo@stoo.demon.co.uk> wrote > Wasn't the entire point of this thread that the universal translators > weren't working! > > Stuart Actually Stuart, no it wasn't the point was the crew were unable to speak. As in they were all unable to make a noise from their mouth. However the points that you raise seemed more aimed at the use of English in general.

2000-04-08 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Pie <sweetiepie_1966@yahoo.com>)


Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote > > I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > eyeshot? Hmmm... they *are* surrounded by computer systems, and we know that tactile displays and command consoles are available to them, remember Tuvok in Year of Hell? If they weren't able to talk to each other I expect their shipboard equivalent of ICQ would get a lot of excercise. I just hope they remember how to type.

2000-04-09 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (hummel@world.std.com)


I don't understand. People are still watching VOYAGER with the sound -on-? But that way, you can hear what they're saying! -- Franklin Hummel [ hummel@world.std.com ] -- ==================================================================== "The universe is not only queerer than we imagine, but it is queerer than we can imagine." -J.B.S. Haldane ====================================================================

2000-04-09 00:00:00 - Re: Voyager Visits Dumb Planet - (WWS <wschmidt@tyler.net>)


I propose that Voyager visit a planet where everyone who goes there is instantly struck dumb. Oh wait, that must have already happened. -- __________________________________________________WWS_____________

2000-04-09 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Cool Ass Pie <sweetiepie_1966@yahoo.com>)


Tim Bruening wrote > Pie wrote: **cut** > > Hmmm... they *are* surrounded by computer systems, and we know that > > tactile displays and command consoles are available to them, remember > > Tuvok in Year of Hell? If they weren't able to talk to each other I > > expect their shipboard equivalent of ICQ would get a lot of excercise. I > > just hope they remember how to type. > > What does ICQ mean? ICQ is an internet chat application, you can either send individual messages or participate in simultaneous chat. I would feel safe in assuming that Voyager at very least has an email system, and probably something more extensive than that.

2000-04-09 00:00:00 - Voyager Visits Deaf Planet - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


I propose Voyager visit a planet where everyone is deaf, and communicates via hand gestures. How would the Universal Translator translate the hand gestures? After all, the Enterprise's Universal Translator couldn't translate when a deaf ambassador lost his telepathic interpreters (Loud As A Whisper) and resorted to his sign language. Data had to learn sign language. How would an inhabitant of the planet get around on Voyager? (Since vocal commands seem to be the primary interface).

2000-04-09 00:00:00 - Voyager Visits Blind Planet - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


I propose that Voyager visit a planet whose inhabitants are blind, look like large earthworms, and live underground, since they can't get around very well above ground without sight. However, their sense of touch is so well developed that they don't need any other senses. They have been able to develop machines to turn electromagnetic radiation into touch, allowing them to learn about the universe, and navigate around their planet, and even navigate into space. A chapter in James White's book "Federation World" tells of contact with such a species.

2000-04-09 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


Stuart James Fotheringham wrote: > Wasn't the entire point of this thread that the universal translators > weren't working! The point of this thread is that the crew can't talk, so must find other ways to communicate.

2000-04-09 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


Pie wrote: > Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote > > > > I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew > loses > > their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > > communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > > eyeshot? > > Hmmm... they *are* surrounded by computer systems, and we know that > tactile displays and command consoles are available to them, remember > Tuvok in Year of Hell? If they weren't able to talk to each other I > expect their shipboard equivalent of ICQ would get a lot of excercise. I > just hope they remember how to type. What does ICQ mean?

2000-04-12 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu)


In <38F03866.43D1C15D@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> writes: > > What does ICQ mean? > Pun program name. "I seek you." Official name of a suite of programs that constitute a form of computer-chat commo system.

2000-04-14 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (thomw@webtv.net)


>A hundred years ago, it would also have >been reasonable to assume that >everybody would eventually speak >French. Only the French thought so, and they can hardly be called reasonable. In fact, it was/is French arrogance that doomed Esperanto from becoming the working language of the League of Nations and later of the UN. Thom Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

2000-04-14 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (*dj.duff*@virgin.net)


On Sat, 8 Apr 2000 18:45:20 +0100, "Pie" <sweetiepie_1966@yahoo.com> wrote: >Techlab Photo Rescue Inc wrote >> On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:27:25 +0100, "Stuart James Fotheringham" >> <stoo@stoo.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> >> >How do we know that it was an English speaking colony. They could be >> >Mexican, or French Canadian, or Italian, etc. >> > >> >Or are we assuming that English will be the global language of the >future? >> >> That's a 'given' in Science Fiction. It's not called English, it's >> called "Standard" when the issue is mentioned, but it's English >> nonetheless. > >Reading a few Azimov novels, or for that matter any science fiction, >would quickly demonstrate this. > >> I think Trek even refers to this, but I can't remember where or when. > >TOS mentioned it. I think that it's been mentioned whenever the >universal translator is discussed, for example in "Little Green Men" the >DS9 Episode where Quark et al go back in time to Roswell. A fun episode, >but one that discussed the translator and language as well. > >> Yep.. I think English is the universal language of the Federation by >> the time we get to peek into the 'future'. I could be wrong though. > >English itself might not be, but it's rather irrelevent, we watch a TV >show, produced in a country that primarily speaks English and is >targetted at English speaking viewers. It would seem rather foolish to >saddle us with lots of dubbing or subtitles in order to reflect other >languages. Instead we suspend our disbelief, I guess that Mr >Fotheringham needs to think about this topic a little more. > > Kill me if I am wrong. 1) In the world today English is the language of trade in the Western world and the international standard for air traffic control, it is reasonble to assume that this will be the same in the future. 2) In a number of STTNG episodes Picard speaks French usually the word merde, until the producers realised what it meant. 3) All Star Fleet installations are fitted with universal transaltors, remember the DS9 Episode way back when DS9 had visitors from another planet and the translator could not deode thier language (any help here about this episode appreciated). 4) Chekov speaks in Russian at the start of TSFS. I would assume that English or Standard is the language of diplomacy but other languages do still exist even on Earth and are spoken. My point being English is a global language now, but even now and in the future that does not mean all other Earth languages will vanish and not be spoken. LesD

2000-04-14 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (tsalonie@palmu.hut.fi)


In article <38f6eae8.7087825@news.virgin.net> *dj.duff*@virgin.net (Donna & Les Duff) writes: >1) In the world today English is the language of trade in the Western >world and the international standard for air traffic control, it is >reasonble to assume that this will be the same in the future. A hundred years ago, it would also have been reasonable to assume that everybody would eventually speak French. Or that scientists would all convert to German. In a couple of hundred years, we might be using Mandarin Chinese or Portugese as the lingua franca... >2) In a number of STTNG episodes Picard speaks French usually the word >merde, until the producers realised what it meant. >3) All Star Fleet installations are fitted with universal transaltors, >remember the DS9 Episode way back when DS9 had visitors from another >planet and the translator could not deode thier language (any help >here about this episode appreciated). "Sanctuary", from the second season. Putting 2) and 3) together, one would think that the UT would have translated Picard's little cusswords to English as well. Or does the UT only translate off-Earth languages automatically? It doesn't seem to translate Klingon very well, since Worf or Dax could speak that language aboard DS9 without getting translated. And Sisko could speak Bajoran without it getting turned into English. >4) Chekov speaks in Russian at the start of TSFS. >I would assume that English or Standard is the language of diplomacy >but other languages do still exist even on Earth and are spoken. >My point being English is a global language now, but even now and in >the future that does not mean all other Earth languages will vanish >and not be spoken. One still has to explain why nonhumans would speak this global language, including hostile aliens who despise all humans. Perhaps the UT takes care of some of the translations, but why doesn't it translate *everything* (including Chekov's Russian or Sisko's Bajoran)? Timo Saloniemi

2000-04-14 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (ring@mindspring.com)


I used my telepathic powers to read <38F74AB5.FB26EA81@tyler.net>, in which WWS <wschmidt@tyler.net> typed some funnee stuff! <snip> I think that making Voyager silent would solve half of the show's problems. And with the "sound" problem out of the way, the producers could turn their full attention to the annoying "visual" half. Mortis Master of the Unknown, KPS Nebulosis Defunctus "Mister Order, he runs at a very good pace But old Mother Chaos is winning the race" -Lord Omar, "The Honest Book of Truth"

2000-04-14 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (WWS <wschmidt@tyler.net>)


Timo S Saloniemi wrote: > > In article <38f6eae8.7087825@news.virgin.net> *dj.duff*@virgin.net (Donna & Les Duff) writes: > > >1) In the world today English is the language of trade in the Western > >world and the international standard for air traffic control, it is > >reasonble to assume that this will be the same in the future. > > A hundred years ago, it would also have been reasonable to assume that > everybody would eventually speak French. Never in the past or future history of the world did it or will it ever have been "reasonable" to assume that everybody would eventually speak French. That's like assuming everyone will want to eat snails all of a sudden, or develop really nasty attitudes toward everything. > Or that scientists would all convert to German. Well, that actually did happen. Then the Russians and Americans flipped a coin and they each took half. > In a couple of hundred years, we might be using > Mandarin Chinese or Portugese as the lingua franca... My biggest problem these days is how many of the best web pages and new software releases are in Mandarin Chinese and Portugese. You must be having the same problem. > > >My point being English is a global language now, but even now and in > >the future that does not mean all other Earth languages will vanish > >and not be spoken. > > One still has to explain why nonhumans would speak this global language, > including hostile aliens who despise all humans. Perhaps the UT takes > care of some of the translations, but why doesn't it translate > *everything* (including Chekov's Russian or Sisko's Bajoran)? Don't tell me Trek's been inconsistent again. I couldn't bear it. -- __________________________________________________WWS_____________

2000-04-14 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - ("Riboflavin D. Monkey" <thisdoesntwork@hotmail.com>)


In article <38F74AB5.FB26EA81@tyler.net>, WWS <wschmidt@tyler.net> wrote: > > Don't tell me Trek's been inconsistent again. I couldn't bear it. > > -- > > __________________________________________________WWS_____________ > No, It's standard Starfleet Practice that everyone gets a babelfish in their ear at graduation. Everybody knows that! It's gotta be common knowledge by now. -- Riboflavin D. Monkey More Simian than Simian. "Ode to manilla Not so much a color as A type of folder" - Mortis. Undead Poet and Terror. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

2000-04-17 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (*dj.duff*@virgin.net)


On 14 Apr 2000 12:22:30 GMT, tsalonie@palmu.hut.fi (Timo S Saloniemi) wrote: >One still has to explain why nonhumans would speak this global language, >including hostile aliens who despise all humans. Perhaps the UT takes >care of some of the translations, but why doesn't it translate >*everything* (including Chekov's Russian or Sisko's Bajoran)? > >Timo Saloniemi > Okay, you got me there. LesD

2000-04-17 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (tsalonie@korundi.hut.fi)


In article <38F88ED5.4D65@yahoo.com> stevechristianson@yahoo.com writes: >X-No-Archive: yes >Timo S Saloniemi wrote: >> A hundred years ago, it would also have been reasonable to assume that >> everybody would eventually speak French. >You're thinking more like 250 years ago. And in a sense they did, >amongst the European aristocracy I mean. Agreed on that. >> Or that scientists would all >> convert to German. In a couple of hundred years, we might be using >> Mandarin Chinese or Portugese as the lingua franca... >Except that in the future the Chinese and Portuguese are hardly likely >to have world empires comparable to the old British Empire which spread >English. That Empire is gone now, but America's economic supremacy and >status as the world's only global superpower has cemented English as the >language of the world. If you're a young, ambitious Chinese person, you >learn English. If you're a young, ambitious American, you speak English >r e a l l y s l o w l y to others and trust they understand. Think >about it. It says which language has the power and which doesn't. Indeed - the language is associated to the society holding power. So what's there to say that the English-speaking world will have any share of the power pie after, say, 200 years? US economic supremacy can't rely on supreme innovation or supreme production capability alone, since both of those are already being contested. Militarily, anybody can be a nuclear superpower today or at least tomorrow. 200 years is a rather short period of time, but English-speaking world has held global reign for a shorter period, and the US or A is a newcomer of less than 60 years of experience. Quick demises of empires aren't any sort of an exception, but more of a rule. Who would have thought in the 1930s that the British Empire would disappear in just twenty years? Of course, history need not repeat itself or anything. New forms of communication could stagnate language so that English never lets go. Other new rules and laws of history could emerge as technology develops, the Earth fills up etc. It just seems very unlikely in light of previous experience that there would be any sort of permanence beyond a 200-yr timespan for things as fleeting as world dominance or lingua franca. Short human lifespans already provide a nice safeguard against permanence... Timo Saloniemi

2000-04-19 00:00:00 - Re: Voyager Visits Blind Planet - (Zax <zzul518@worldnet.att.net>)


I would like to do a fanfict where the Voyager visits a planet that has a 20th century tech level, with Paris and Kim beaming down incognito.

2000-04-20 00:00:00 - Re: Voyager Visits Blind Planet - (gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu)


In <O1qL4.23900$fV.1292606@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> "Zax" <zzul518@worldnet.att.net> writes: > > I would like to do a fanfict where the Voyager visits a planet that has > a 20th century tech level, with Paris and Kim beaming down incognito. > Just don't publish it or post it on the Net, so the Big Bad Lawyers don't come and eat you without ketchup and take your parents' house. And be sure to wash your hands afterward.

2000-04-22 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Ashley Nugent <ashley_nugent@hotmail.com>)


maybe seven will assimialte them all to her own private collective in which she is the queen? -- ************************************************* * Icq: 42276559 * * Email: ashleynugent@ozemail.com * * www.ozemail.com.au/~ashleynugent * ************************************************* "Floyd" <curlystacheSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:OF5qdJkm$GA.342@cpmsnbbsa04... > Funny,.. They are all silent for me,.. Well, since about a year and a half > ago. > > In the short time I have had to live in a world of silence I have noticed > much more about some things including STV. One is that the actors in STV > are, for the most part, pretty good. The foul local TV station that > broadcast this series has major problems with the captioning and it comes > out garbled. I usually just watch the show and try and interpret what is > going on in the story by the movements and expressions of the actors and by > following the direction. The primary problem with this is, of course, the > fact that much of the genre relies on vague science or plot devices that are > hinted at in sparse, blanketing dialogue. > > Much can be said for the unstated. Tim Russ' performance early on in this > year was phenomenal. I could understand much of that episode without need > for words. Some for the episode where the were caught by the planet on which > time occurred much more quickly then on Voyager. Plenty of the better > moments in life occur without words. When a child looks at you and the smile > in their eyes immediately causes you to smile or when your love simply puts > a hand in the middle of your back it 'says' more than words. > > I kinda like the idea for the same reason I liked the episode with Picard > and the alien trapped on a planet. I ate that episode up. It got to one of > the core existential problems of the human condition. At best communication > is fragile. > > Consider the fact that at minimum 8% of the US is deaf. Do you know any > American Sign Language? If not then that means that you will never know the > thoughts of those people. You have just made your ability to communicate > with that segment of the population more difficult and perhaps impossible. > If you wish you can go here http://dww.deafworldweb.org/ and try and regain > some access to those people you have lost. > > For further rant I will talk about Star Trek "Insurrection." A friend of > mine had given me a box of holographic suckers a few years ago that were > Star Trek themed. Since they were 'collectibles' (giggle) I decided I would > only eat them while going to the theater to watch ST films. Unfortunately I > was deaf when "Insurrection" was released and didn't bother to go the see it > at the theater. There are captioning systems for film but most theaters > can't seem to find a reason to take the courtesy to provide this service. > Regal Cinema's (they have a near deadlock on the 35 or so screens in the > area) is one of the worst culprits and don't seem care about this fact on a > nationwide level. If you care to help and try to open up the theater > experience for the deaf go here http://captions.org/petition.cfm and add > your name to this petition. Or, the next time you go to a theater, ask the > manager if they have taken any measures to accommodate the deaf. If nothing > else you might make them feel crappy for the rest of the day because "No one > understands. Its not my decision. I just work here and don't own the > company. I really care but no one knows what I have to deal with." Must be > terrible for those corporations and people to not be able to communicate and > be understood. > > Here kid,.. You want a sucker? I won't be able to eat them anytime soon. I > understand. > > If you have read this far and get all bent out of shape over my rant try > this: Take your arms and cross them at the wrist forming an X. The wrists > should be touching each other on their interior surfaces. Then 'clap' those > wrists together several times rapidly and then point at yourself with an > index finger. ; ) > > Floyd E. Shock > > "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message > news:38E06132.F6D9135E@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us... > > > > I propose that there be a Voyager episode in which the entire crew loses > > their ability to talk. In such a situation, how would the crew > > communicate? How would Janeway give orders to people who are out of > > eyeshot? > >

2000-04-22 00:00:00 - Re: Silent Voyager Episode - (Ashley Nugent <ashley_nugent@hotmail.com>)


why do people whatch others suffering on the news? to make them think their life is not so bad? -- ************************************************* * Icq: 42276559 * * Email: ashleynugent@ozemail.com * * www.ozemail.com.au/~ashleynugent * ************************************************* "Merrick Baldelli" <mbaldelli@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:ea87esccthelkdoo43rcdbu43m50ahcvc0@4ax.com... > On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:12:38 -0600, erilarloFRY@SPAMwin.bright.net > (erilar) wrote: > > > Why would anyone watch a show he or she found annyoying?????? > > Why do people rubberneck on highways when there's injurred, > even though they know that the sight of blood makes them queasy? > > > -- > -=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > _( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli > (((\ \> /_1 ` > (\\\\ \_/ / > -=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > \ _/ > / /

2000-04-23 00:00:00 - Re: Voyager Visits Blind Planet - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


Zax wrote: > I would like to do a fanfict where the Voyager visits a planet that has a > 20th century tech level, with Paris and Kim beaming down incognito. Would the inhabitants of the planet be blind (since the title of this thread is "Voyager Visits Blind Planet")?

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: Spoiler Comments On Next Week's Voyager - (WWS <wschmidt@tyler.net>)


DBR wrote: > > Tim Bruening wrote in message <390953B9.CA90E2C6@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>... > >TV Guide Spoilers for next week's Voyager: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >According to my TV Guide, a future Kes will return to Voyager to exact > revenge > >on its crew by helping the Vidiians harvest body parts from the crew. > > > > i was wondering where we were with that show. we got screwed last week and > they showed a rerun. I think this week is MUSE because of all the > reviews. Hmm,,,,,,,,, > > so Zabanna were probably getting screwed this week too... > > >I can hardly wait to see Kes' face when she learns that the Vidiians NO > LONGER > >SUFFER FROM THE PHAGE! In the episode "Think Tank", the spokesperson for > an > >alien Think Tank said that the Think Tank had cured the Vidiian phage, > which > >would make it unnecessary for the Vidiians to harvest body parts from the > >Voyager crew. > > > > uh.....huh....... > >Why would Kes be angry at Voyager anyway? > > > > > I dunno Well, wouldn't it be for kicking her off the ship because she wouldn't sleep with old wot's his name? And then telling everyone she did drugs on the job? -- __________________________________________________WWS_____________ I'd still be pissed if I was her.

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: Spoiler Comments On Next Week's Voyager - (nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU)


In article <390953B9.CA90E2C6@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: >According to my TV Guide, a future Kes will return to Voyager to exact revenge >on its crew by helping the Vidiians harvest body parts from the crew. > >I can hardly wait to see Kes' face when she learns that the Vidiians NO LONGER >SUFFER FROM THE PHAGE! In the episode "Think Tank", the spokesperson for an >alien Think Tank said that the Think Tank had cured the Vidiian phage, which >would make it unnecessary for the Vidiians to harvest body parts from the >Voyager crew. Uh, have you seen the preview, even? The preview seemed to make it pretty clear that she goes back in time to a time when Voyager was still in Vidiian space (and before they were cured of the Phage).

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: Spoiler Comments On Next Week's Voyager - (DBR <assman@finalfrontier.com>)


Tim Bruening wrote in message <390953B9.CA90E2C6@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>... >TV Guide Spoilers for next week's Voyager: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >According to my TV Guide, a future Kes will return to Voyager to exact revenge >on its crew by helping the Vidiians harvest body parts from the crew. > i was wondering where we were with that show. we got screwed last week and they showed a rerun. I think this week is MUSE because of all the reviews. Hmm,,,,,,,,, so Zabanna were probably getting screwed this week too... >I can hardly wait to see Kes' face when she learns that the Vidiians NO LONGER >SUFFER FROM THE PHAGE! In the episode "Think Tank", the spokesperson for an >alien Think Tank said that the Think Tank had cured the Vidiian phage, which >would make it unnecessary for the Vidiians to harvest body parts from the >Voyager crew. > uh.....huh....... >Why would Kes be angry at Voyager anyway? > > > I dunno

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Spoiler Comments On Next Week's Voyager - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


TV Guide Spoilers for next week's Voyager: According to my TV Guide, a future Kes will return to Voyager to exact revenge on its crew by helping the Vidiians harvest body parts from the crew. I can hardly wait to see Kes' face when she learns that the Vidiians NO LONGER SUFFER FROM THE PHAGE! In the episode "Think Tank", the spokesperson for an alien Think Tank said that the Think Tank had cured the Vidiian phage, which would make it unnecessary for the Vidiians to harvest body parts from the Voyager crew. Why would Kes be angry at Voyager anyway?

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: Spoiler Comments On Next Week's Voyager - (James Stevens <jamess@argonet.co.uk>)


In article <390953B9.CA90E2C6@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: > TV Guide Spoilers for next week's Voyager: > According to my TV Guide, a future Kes will return to Voyager to exact > revenge on its crew by helping the Vidiians harvest body parts from the > crew. > I can hardly wait to see Kes' face when she learns that the Vidiians NO > LONGER SUFFER FROM THE PHAGE! There's a bit of time travel involved ;-) > In the episode "Think Tank", the > spokesperson for an alien Think Tank said that the Think Tank had cured the > Vidiian phage, which would make it unnecessary for the Vidiians to harvest > body parts from the Voyager crew. There's also the fact that Voyager is at least 25,000 lys from Vidian space ;-) > Why would Kes be angry at Voyager anyway? Stay tuned! Jamie. -- __ James "Jaz" Stevens ICQ# 14960457 __ / /__ ____ jamess@argonet.co.uk - j.w.stevens@brad.ac.uk / /_/ / _ `/_ / Visit http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/jamess/ \____/\_,_//__/ for PSX Cheats, FFVII Guide, ST:Voy, Software and more. "Can I ask you to leave a pause between the word 'Aim' and the word 'Fire'? Thirty or forty years, perhaps..."

2000-04-29 00:00:00 - Re: Spoiler Comments On Next Week's Voyager - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


Brian Barjenbruch wrote I wrote:: > > I was assuming that > > the > > fact that next week's episode is being shown late in the 5th season meant > > that the > > future Kes was going to show up on Voyager at a Stardate corresponding to > > late in > > the 5th season, and after the Vidiians were cured. > > No. Kes, of the present, travels back in time several years. My TV Guide said that the culprit Kes would be a future version of Kes.

2000-04-29 00:00:00 - Re: Spoiler Comments On Next Week's Voyager - ("David B." <bothecat@hotmail.com>)


Tim Bruening wrote: > > Brian Barjenbruch wrote > > I wrote:: > > > > I was assuming that > > > the > > > fact that next week's episode is being shown late in the 5th season meant > > > that the > > > future Kes was going to show up on Voyager at a Stardate corresponding to > > > late in > > > the 5th season, and after the Vidiians were cured. > > > > No. Kes, of the present, travels back in time several years. > > My TV Guide said that the culprit Kes would be a future version of Kes. That's true since most of the episode is set in the second season. The TV Guide is a little off.

2000-04-29 00:00:00 - Re: Spoiler Comments On Next Week's Voyager - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


Nelson Lu wrote: > In article <390953B9.CA90E2C6@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, > Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: Spoilers: V o y a g e r D s 9 T n g T o s > > > >According to my TV Guide, a future Kes will return to Voyager to exact revenge > >on its crew by helping the Vidiians harvest body parts from the crew. > > > >I can hardly wait to see Kes' face when she learns that the Vidiians NO LONGER > >SUFFER FROM THE PHAGE! In the episode "Think Tank", the spokesperson for an > >alien Think Tank said that the Think Tank had cured the Vidiian phage, which > >would make it unnecessary for the Vidiians to harvest body parts from the > >Voyager crew. > > Uh, have you seen the preview, even? The preview seemed to make it pretty > clear that she goes back in time to a time when Voyager was still in Vidiian > space (and before they were cured of the Phage). In that case, why wasn't next week's episode shown several years ago in the season corresponding to the Stardate Kes goes back in time to? I was assuming that the fact that next week's episode is being shown late in the 5th season meant that the future Kes was going to show up on Voyager at a Stardate corresponding to late in the 5th season, and after the Vidiians were cured.

2007-03-22 22:53:05-08:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


"David E. Sluss" wrote: > C Y N I C S > O > R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" > N as reviewed by David E. Sluss > E > R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing > > THE BOTTOM LINE: As this episode lacks even a smidgen of > intelligence, logic, quality storytelling, respectable acting, and > anything resembling a point, I am hereby declaring this the worst Star > Trek episode ever made, beating out the old standbys like "Spock's > Brain," "Shades of Grey," "Threshold," and even the previous holder of > the worst episode title, DS9's "One Little Ship," awarded that honor > just two years ago. I liked "One Little Ship". Also, I liked the woman being turned into a cow in "Spirit Folk".

2007-03-22 22:53:10-08:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


"David E. Sluss" wrote: > C Y N I C S > O > R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" > N as reviewed by David E. Sluss > E > R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing > > > GOOD NEWS OF THE WEEK: Finding anything good in this episode is a > difficult chore, and perhaps the only one to be found is the portrayal > of B'Ellana this week. Since she's the only character who showed up > with a brain, I know that seems like damning with faint praise. But > she is perhaps the only character in Star Trek history to have even > suggested that the power be cut off to a malfunctioning holodeck. She > was also the only member of the senior staff concerned with the safety > of real people more than preserving the crew's "relationships" with > the fictional people of "Fair Haven." This is the only reason the > episode received any points at all. Well, that and the fact that I > need a little room at the bottom of the scale in case things get any > worse. How about 7 of 9 pointing out that the Fair Haven characters are just holograms, not real people?

2008-04-28 22:26:37-07:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


"David E. Sluss" wrote: > C Y N I C S > O > R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" > N as reviewed by David E. Sluss > E > R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing > > THE BOTTOM LINE: As this episode lacks even a smidgen of > intelligence, logic, quality storytelling, respectable acting, and > anything resembling a point, I am hereby declaring this the worst Star > Trek episode ever made, beating out the old standbys like "Spock's > Brain," "Shades of Grey," "Threshold," and even the previous holder of > the worst episode title, DS9's "One Little Ship," awarded that honor > just two years ago. I liked "One Little Ship". Also, I liked the woman being turned into a cow in "Spirit Folk".

2008-04-28 22:26:40-07:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


"David E. Sluss" wrote: > C Y N I C S > O > R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" > N as reviewed by David E. Sluss > E > R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing > > > GOOD NEWS OF THE WEEK: Finding anything good in this episode is a > difficult chore, and perhaps the only one to be found is the portrayal > of B'Ellana this week. Since she's the only character who showed up > with a brain, I know that seems like damning with faint praise. But > she is perhaps the only character in Star Trek history to have even > suggested that the power be cut off to a malfunctioning holodeck. She > was also the only member of the senior staff concerned with the safety > of real people more than preserving the crew's "relationships" with > the fictional people of "Fair Haven." This is the only reason the > episode received any points at all. Well, that and the fact that I > need a little room at the bottom of the scale in case things get any > worse. How about 7 of 9 pointing out that the Fair Haven characters are just holograms, not real people?

2008-10-22 20:04:45-07:00 - Re: [VOY] Cynics Corner Review: "Spirit Folk" - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


"David E. Sluss" wrote: > C Y N I C S > O > R Star Trek: Voyager: "Spirit Folk" > N as reviewed by David E. Sluss > E > R copyright (c) 2000 Tiger Bay Publishing > > THE BOTTOM LINE: As this episode lacks even a smidgen of > intelligence, logic, quality storytelling, respectable acting, and > anything resembling a point, I am hereby declaring this the worst Star > Trek episode ever made, beating out the old standbys like "Spock's > Brain," "Shades of Grey," "Threshold," and even the previous holder of > the worst episode title, DS9's "One Little Ship," awarded that honor > just two years ago. I liked "One Little Ship". Also, I liked the woman being turned into a cow in "Spirit Folk".