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2000-05-30 00:00:00 - Re: What's all the fuss about? - (kemosabe@skyenet.net)


On Tue, 30 May 2000 21:11:59 +0100, "David Shackleton" <dshackleton@ukgateway.net> wrote: |He's the guy you love to hate, Masked Man----->For the record, Chakotay is not universally disliked in this newsgroup. I do not find him a stick of wood, and I think his less than best effort is due to TPTB consciously minimizing his role in the series, not his own lack of interest. -- Who was that masked man?

2000-05-30 00:00:00 - Re: What's all the fuss about? - (Michele <belanna@uswest.net>)


Masked Man wrote: > > On Tue, 30 May 2000 21:11:59 +0100, "David Shackleton" > <dshackleton@ukgateway.net> wrote: > > |He's the guy you love to hate, > > Masked Man----->For the record, Chakotay is not universally disliked > in this newsgroup. I do not find him a stick of wood, and I think his > less than best effort is due to TPTB consciously minimizing his role > in the series, not his own lack of interest. > > -- > > Who was that masked man? That is a very good point. Michele "take the cheese to sickbay" B'elanna What is the phrase heard most often in Voyager's Mess Hall? "Medical Emergency!!!" What did the blonde Klingon say? It was a good day to dye.

2000-05-30 00:00:00 - Re: What's all the fuss about? - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueenNOSPAM@hotmail.com>)


On Tue, 30 May 2000 21:11:59 +0100, "David Shackleton" <dshackleton@ukgateway.net> wrote: >Hi All, <snip> > >Anyway, yeah! Why do loads of you hate voyager when u are meant to love it?? because it's done poorly?? Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-05-30 00:00:00 - What's all the fuss about? - (David Shackleton <dshackleton@ukgateway.net>)


Hi All, I read this group every day and am always curious about why everyone seems so rattled by voyager and can't wait for it to finish. I love voyager, (ok, except chuckles, or felix the cat as i call him!!) I think that it has some of the best episodes of the entire franchise, it has the degree of optomism about the future that gene roddenberry always wanted, and the characters really gel together marvellously. I admit, as soon as the holodeck gets involved the writers must be on holiday, (remember flotter and treevus? Oh my god, who here liked that episode? cuz i'll tell you when I do, and it aint gonna be soon!). But isn't it a little extreme to blast nearly every episode they produce? Next Gen had the stories to a T, DS9 the characters and excellent story arc, and voy just has both. So come on, someone explain what really is the reason voyager has become so despised? To coin a phrase of bart simpson: "You are getting hours of quality television for free, if anthing you owe them!" p.s. I am aware that I blasted the flotter and treevus episode and chuckles but come on, you have to have that, He's the guy you love to hate, or was it the guy you want dead, beamed into space by accident by some clumsy transporer operator and just see him implode!! oh, sorry. Anyway, yeah! Why do loads of you hate voyager when u are meant to love it?? Dave Shackleton.

2000-05-30 00:00:00 - Re: What's all the fuss about? - (Zabana Brandon <zabana@collegetoday.com>)


David Shackleton wroteded: > Hi All, Hi, David! > I read this group every day and am always curious about why everyone seems > so rattled by voyager and can't wait for it to finish. Uhm ... that's not very many people at all. Most of the oneswho wish death to the show are over at rec.arts.sf.tv. And the only true person around these posts would be Francis Martenstein. :) > I love voyager, (ok, except chuckles, or felix the cat as i call him!!) I > think that it has some > of the best episodes of the entire franchise, it has the degree of optomism > about the future that gene roddenberry always wanted, and the characters > really gel together marvellously. I admit, as soon as the holodeck gets > involved the writers must be on holiday, (remember flotter and treevus? Oh > my god, who here liked that episode? cuz i'll tell you when I do, and it > aint gonna be soon!). Er ... I liked "Once Upon a Time." :) > But isn't it a little extreme to blast nearly every episode they produce? But it's *fun*!! > Next Gen had the stories to a T, DS9 the characters and excellent story arc, > and voy just has both. Er ... tell the truth. You're on the crack ain't ya?DS9 had character interaction that remains unparalleled amongst the current Treks. TOS' Kirk/Spock/McCoy interactions were great as well, but still not where DS9 had them. And contrary to popular opinino, TNG didn't have stories to a T. The first season *sucked* in a way that even VOY hasn't. And only half of the second season was of any good. As much as I love DS9, they had their problems, too. But VOY has a production staff (especially the executive producer) who publicly state that if something has happened before in the show, but it gets in their way of telling a story, they'll toss the old thing out the window. That's careless story writing, and makes pointless the stories that even the production staff writers have written before. The VOY staff even trash their own characters in ways that they should, on occasion, be shot and/or strung up for. <g> > So come on, someone explain what really is the reason voyager has become so > despised? > To coin a phrase of bart simpson: "You are getting hours of quality > television for free, if anthing you owe them!" VOY isn't so much despised for being bad, but for not being what it*could* have been - an interesting show about a starship far far far away from home, on their own, trying to survive. They've missed or lost so many opportunities that it's impossible to count anymore. But that doesn't mean I stop watching the show. I like it for the usual entertainment value. I sure as hell don't watch it expecting to think about whatever it has to say. <g>

2000-05-31 00:00:00 - Re: What's all the fuss about? - (prissisbestat@aol.com)


>I read this group every day and am always curious about why everyone seems >so rattled by voyager and can't wait for it to finish. I love voyager, (ok, >except chuckles, or felix the cat as i call him!!) Yikes, don't let anyone from the RBEB (RObert Beltran Estragine Brigade) groups here you say that! >I think that it has some >of the best episodes of the entire franchise, it has the degree of optomism >about the future that gene roddenberry always wanted yes, but Braga wants to change a 30+ year franchise because he doesn't agree with Rodenberry who obviously knew a hell of alot more than Braga. > I admit, as soon as the holodeck gets >involved the writers must be on holiday, (remember flotter and treevus? Yeah, I had an intense erge for a toothpick and to flush a toilet. >But isn't it a little extreme to blast nearly every episode they produce? >Next Gen had the stories to a T, DS9 the characters and excellent story arc, >and voy just has both. Lets's face it. They real fans will continue to watch for love of the show and the star trek universe, while other watch so they'll have something to bitch about even if it doesn't make sense to others.

2000-05-31 00:00:00 - Re: What's all the fuss about? - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueenNOSPAM@hotmail.com>)


On Tue, 30 May 2000 23:23:59 GMT, kemosabe@skyenet.net (Masked Man) wrote: >On Tue, 30 May 2000 21:11:59 +0100, "David Shackleton" ><dshackleton@ukgateway.net> wrote: > >|He's the guy you love to hate, > >Masked Man----->For the record, Chakotay is not universally disliked >in this newsgroup. I do not find him a stick of wood, and I think his >less than best effort is due to TPTB consciously minimizing his role >in the series, not his own lack of interest. so then why is Russ still giving his best, though *his* role is being *far* more minimized than Beltran's????? Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-05-31 00:00:00 - Re: What's all the fuss about? - (galekarens@aol.com)


>I read this group every day and am always curious about why everyone seems >so rattled by voyager and can't wait for it to finish. I love voyager, (ok, >except chuckles, or felix the cat as i call him!!) I think that it has some >of the best episodes of the entire franchise, it has the degree of optomism >about the future that gene roddenberry always wanted, and the characters >really gel together marvellously. I admit, as soon as the holodeck gets >involved the writers must be on holiday, (remember flotter and treevus? Oh >my god, who here liked that episode? cuz i'll tell you when I do, and it >aint gonna be soon!). > >But isn't it a little extreme to blast nearly every episode they produce? >Next Gen had the stories to a T, DS9 the characters and excellent story arc, >and voy just has both. > >So come on, someone explain what really is the reason voyager has become so >despised? >To coin a phrase of bart simpson: "You are getting hours of quality >television for free, if anthing you owe them!" >. Count me in as a Voyager fan - it has some not so great episodes, but I haven't lost interest yet and I've seen all the series!

2000-05-31 00:00:00 - Re: What's all the fuss about? - (Craig <craig0629@worldnet.att.net>)


David Shackleton <dshackleton@ukgateway.net> wrote in message news:8h17k0$8a8$1@lure.pipex.net... > So come on, someone explain what really is the reason voyager has become so > despised? > To coin a phrase of bart simpson: "You are getting hours of quality > television for free, if anthing you owe them!" I love Voyager but that does not mean I can't be critical of it too? Can you honestly say that you have not had the feeling, while watching a ep, that you could swear that they have made a mistake (I'm talken major lack of continuity). There is nothing wrong with pointing these things out (as far as I'm concerned) because it shows your paying attention. I can't for one minute believe that the majority of posters here have a death wish for Voyager. Just the oppisite, they want it to be better. > p.s. I am aware that I blasted the flotter and treevus episode and chuckles > but come on, you have to have that, He's the guy you love to hate, or was it > the guy you want dead, beamed into space by accident by some clumsy > transporer operator and just see him implode!! oh, sorry. I liked that episode a lot. It is good to have the not_so_serious eps once in a while. If others hated it then so what, at least I (and many others) liked it. > Anyway, yeah! Why do loads of you hate voyager when u are meant to love it?? > > Dave Shackleton. As far as I know there are very few people here who hate Voyager. Those that do are seldom seen and usually ignored. Craig

2000-05-31 00:00:00 - Re: What's all the fuss about? - (TC <yewston@ix.REMOVE.netcom.com>)


"David Shackleton" wrote ... > Hi All, > > I read this group every day and am always curious about why everyone seems > so rattled by voyager and can't wait for it to finish. I love voyager, (ok, > except chuckles, or felix the cat as i call him!!) I think that it has some > of the best episodes of the entire franchise, it has the degree of optomism > about the future that gene roddenberry always wanted, and the characters > really gel together marvellously. I admit, as soon as the holodeck gets > involved the writers must be on holiday, (remember flotter and treevus? Oh > my god, who here liked that episode? cuz i'll tell you when I do, and it > aint gonna be soon!). You must not be reading the same group I am. <g> Every once in a while one of the "This show is crap, every week when I watch it I'm amazed it's still on the air" people posts but they usually don't hang out at this ng. For the most part people here like the series. They just think it hasn't lived up to the potential it had. I think it had a great premise. A ship cut off from support crewed by former enemies who had to work together to survive and had to make an impossible journey through unknown space to get back where they belonged. I think TPTB dropped the ball on it big time. The crew became one big happy family far too quickly. The hardships that they face are all but forgotten and only surface if the plot really requires it and then seemed to be mentioned in passing. The rest of the time there is no indication that they aren't just out for a shakedown cruise. The characterization is very primitive and changes constantly. Janeway is especially a victim of this but it happens to all of them. I don't see any optimism for the future here other than everything is always bright shiny and new at the end of each episode. > But isn't it a little extreme to blast nearly every episode they produce? > Next Gen had the stories to a T, DS9 the characters and excellent story arc, > and voy just has both. I don't think any one person blasts every episode. I think I even saw Francis praise an episode once but maybe I was hallucinating. Bozo's reviews tend to be sarcastic even if he really likes a particular episode. I don't think worshipping at the altar of TOS, TNG, DS9, or VOY makes much sense. All have had good episodes and real dogs also. Just looking at the latest episode of VOY here there are people who loved it, those who hated it and others in between. > p.s. I am aware that I blasted the flotter and treevus episode and chuckles > but come on, you have to have that, He's the guy you love to hate, or was it > the guy you want dead, beamed into space by accident by some clumsy > transporer operator and just see him implode!! oh, sorry. Does it surprise you to learn that some people here think Chuckles is good character? Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. It would be boring as hell here if everyone agreed on everything. TC > Anyway, yeah! Why do loads of you hate voyager when u are meant to love it?? > > Dave Shackleton. > >

2000-06-02 00:00:00 - Re: What's all the fuss about? - (evilklowwn@aol.comedy)


David Shackleton doth write thus: >Hi All, Hi, Dr. Nick!! >I read this group every day and am always curious about why everyone seems >so rattled by voyager and can't wait for it to finish. IMO, "Voyager" is the weakest Trek series. I'm hoping the next one will be better. <Snip> >But isn't it a little extreme to blast nearly every episode they produce? None of the regs blasts every ep; even a cynical curmugeon like myself finds some of the gems of the Trek franchise here..... as well as some average eps..... and some *intensely* average eps..... and some, to be kind, that *SUCK* like the cold hard vacuum of space itself. >So come on, someone explain what really is the reason voyager has become so >despised? For me, it's that they took the potential to be the BEST show of the franchise and did *nothing* with it. Aside from occasional pasted-on angst about being Far From Home, the good ship Voyager may as well be fresh out of Spacedock- it always looks like it, anyway. Over the course of the series exactly *two* characters got any meaningful development: Seven, who is always being reset to her original Borglike self, and the Doctor, who's been twisted into an insipid caricature for the sake of cheap laughs- or, more often, pathetic attempts at cheap laughs. >To coin a phrase of bart simpson: "You are getting hours of quality >television for free, if anthing you owe them!" But far too often, while watching Vger, I keep thinking of Comic Book Guy's line: "Worst episode *ever.*" >p.s. I am aware that I blasted the flotter and treevus episode and chuckles >but come on, you have to have that, He's the guy you love to hate, or was it >the guy you want dead, beamed into space by accident by some clumsy >transporer operator and just see him implode!! oh, sorry. So, essentially you've answered your own question! <G> ***************************************** "Insanity is a part of the times, Vir: You must learn to *embrace* the madness!!" Londo Mollari