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2000-04-26 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - ("David B." <bothecat@hotmail.com>)


Arlie wrote: > > spoiler space > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > Are Paris and Torres still together? She didn't seem to mind Tom and Seven > kissing. In fact, she seemed more upset at Janeway and Chuckles kissing. > (Hmmmm.....) That's because she can picture Tom going after Seven but the thought of Janeway and Chakotay together just disgusts her. She looked like she was going to get sick.

2000-04-27 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>>spoiler space (including for upcoming eps) >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>> > >> Everybody already *knew* Tuvok was asleep. You could hear him snoring all the way in the Alpha Quadrant. << It wasn't that noticeable. >> Maybe he should have gotten up from his post and gentle shook Tuvok away but wouldn't that had drawn more attention? << I think he should have expressed some compassion...and some gratitude. >> As for getting out of his chair Tuvok's snoring vs a distress call from your lost friends isn't really a fair comparison--at least I don't think. :-) << My point is that they've long established that you can leave your post on the bridge without it being a big deal. It's not like driving a car. Arrgghh. Words cannot express how *wrong* I found the Tuvok-sleeping-on-the-bridge scene. >> I agree Tuvok will be features alot (I hope) in "Fury" and maybe "The Haunting..." because it sounds ensemble but LifeLines is a "Doc" episode and the finale is probably going to Janeway & 7... << "Haunting" sounds like the focus is going to be on Neelix and the children. >>>>> This guy was a fanfiction writers's dream! << >Yeah, I noticed that. I wonder if it was intentional. I think it was. A few fanfictions do what the poet was doing rewritting characters to fit their perspection. I think that was Menosky's nod to them--plus I still say he was taking a few slams at the Voy writing staff <g> << The more I think about it, the more I think this episode was meant at least partially as a commentary on fans, particularly fan writers. B'Elanna is like the Voy writers, seeing no reason for romance among the crew. While the playwright was like the fans, wanting more than B'Elanna was willing to give him. Like the fans, the playwright wanted angst, romance, surprises, betrayal and redemption. Torres, like the Voyager writing staff, just rolls her eyes at the "soap opera." Seen in this light, the ending could be seen as either uplifting, or a blow-off. The playwright will continue to write his fanfic...but it has nothing to do with the real Voyager, and never will. >> Naaaaaaah Harry's to busy bagging *both* Delaney sisters! lol << I might believe that, if I hadn't seen him buying flowers for his holographic date. >> I wonder if Menoksy was being intentional vague for a reason or that's just how it was written. Like you said, the writers don't like dealing with that stuff--which was sort of the underline message from the play too. << Very much agreed. >> I doubt it. The spoilers make it sound like Kes comes through and starts whooping some hiney from the word "go". She comes tearing through engineering, grabs the warpcore, Torres tries to stop her, get zapped (and dies), Kes instantly becomes young and disappear to earlier Voyager time. It seems to happen pretty quick so I doubt Paris will even know she dead unless he's down in engineering which means who the heck is flying this bucket of bolts LOL << I just find this incredibly annoying. I mean, we know Torres isn't going to stay dead, just as we knew last night that Harry and Torres would be back on Voyager at the end of the episode. The only reason to do stuff like that is to watch the characters react to it. But they never give us that. -- Arlie

2000-04-27 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>> spoiler space > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . >> I think there are "levels" to this episode. I'm sure rewatching it in the future will reveal more levels of meaning that were apparent in the first viewing. << Maybe, but I'm not sure I'm going to re-watch it anytime soon. I had a hard time sitting through it once. >> The poet assumed that she hadn't left the shuttle after she threw him out. She'd probably scanned the indiginous food for compantibility. << I don't buy it. Even if the general biochemistry is the same, it doesn't mean you can eat *everything*. Even here on earth, there are some things that are poisonous to some species, but not others, or to some individuals, but not others. >> > Speaking of Harry...six years on the senior staff, and B'Elanna still thinks of > him as "young Harry Kim." And Seven as the Borg Queen! I think it was more of the poet's artistic license than B'Elanna's actual views. << Still, he seemed to be basing things on reality. Torres *does* call Seven "the Borg Queen." We saw it in "Good Shepherd." And Harry *is* still the youngest and least experienced of the regular cast. >>> The makeup and lighting could have been better. Paris in particular looked > awful this week. Puffy and haggard at the same time, if that's possible. He missed B'Elanna. << But not enough to put him off his feed, it seems... ;-) -- Arlie

2000-04-27 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (Amarna <amarna@pipeline.com>)


On 27 Apr 2000 04:53:09 GMT, tc8870@aol.com (TC8870) wrote: >>spoiler space >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. > >>IMO, this episode would have worked better if they used the regular cast more. > >This episode was just a bit too guest star heavy for me. I don't know from >guest stars's feelings/emotions but I do know the regulars. They either should >have shown us more of the crew or omitted those scenes all together. I think >it would have been cool at some point if an away team had beamed down and found >Torres just before the war started. Torres so inspired/moved implores the crew >to play themselves using the poet's work. > I liked it the way it was, except that the opening scene was a bit slow and in a few places the pacing lagged. > >>We see Tom throwing a fit in the briefing room, and everyone looking at him >funny. We see Tuvok staying up for more than ten days and falling asleep on >the bridge. We see good shepherd Janeway mooning about her cabin over her >missing sheep. Though I'm always clamoring for more warmth between the >characters, all this simply did not ring true. We've had crew >>members go missing before, even die, and never saw this kind of histrionics. >> >> >The emotional "fits" I didn't mind so much. What bugged me was how "unactive >and accepting" of Torres & Kim's fate. I mean is this the same Voyager crew & >Captain who went searching for the Borg cube that took their beloved Janeway? >That went after Chakotay's "supposed" kid in Basics I II--that stared down a >Borg cube to get back one of the Borglettes in "Child's Play"? We've seen the >crew way more proactive over finding leeloa root then they were today lol I >was *shocked* when Janeway got all Vklempt <sp> in her office. What the HECK >was that??? I mean I could see if they believed them truly dead but they were >still searching for them. I saw it completely differently. All of them were constantly working. Tuvok getting no sleep. Tom continuously on the Bridge. Janeway working in her Ready room. Chakotay working on his own. They were all doing what they could, even though they were forced by circumstances to do it all on Voyager and not in the kind of active searching many of them would have rather done. So it was hard on them, and it showed. > >>The "Tuvok sleeping on the bridge scene" wasn't quite as bad as I feared. > >Uncle Tuvy falling asleep on the bridge was the highlight of the show for me >"As you were!" LMAO > >See this is one of those episodes where I sit and watch and wonder what the >other actors not being showcased were doing. lol > >> But Paris' amusement was out of place, > >*shrug* That didn't bother me a whole lot Even in really dark times, something >can happen that can make you smile or laugh even when you don't want to. At >least he didn't taunt Tuvok about it. <g> Plus it was sort of funny. > >I don't know, this episode had it good moments: Dawson's talent being >showcased, a few funny lines, the stuff with 7 of 9 being the "Borg Queen" >(foreshadowing to Unimatriz Zero perhaps? lol) The stuff with J/C and Harry & >The Delaney sisters.... "Harry Kim Sex Stud!" lol Yeah what HAS she being >telling these people?!? Torres being the engineering and working on the DF's >systems. > >>Are Paris and Torres still together? She didn't seem to mind Tom and Seven? > >Question: That guy--Kelis <sp> ask Torres if she's in love with Tom Paris. >Ummmmm why would he ask her that? I mean know he heard the audio about >abandoning ship but I really don't see Torres mention her relationship with >Paris in that capacity? It would have made more sense (and I'm a P/T fan) for >him to ask if she was in love with Harry Kim since Harry was on the Flyer with >her--DUH! I'm gonna go out on a limb and say yeah P/T are still together--they >were sharing a "tv" in Good Shepard a few episodes ago. lol > >At least B'ELanna got to some "flirting' lol But what was the deal with the >Gwen Paltrow actress wanna-be? PUH-LEEZ! If BLT can whoop 7 of 9's hiney then >should have easily whooped that little blonde butt. I don't understand your point. Why would she want to? >Maybe the episode was less about Torres and more about the inside joke of being >a writer looking for inspiration. B'ELanna inspired the poet--the Voyager >character inspire the writers--or I should say 7 of 9 inspires the writers ><eg>. OMG--its all about Braga & how 7 of 9 is his inspiration lol > >Next week: FURY staring Kes. "Mama is home and she AINT happy!" lol Looks like a time-travel ep. Notice Janeway's hair. It's up. > >Zoe -- Amarna

2000-04-27 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>spoiler space (including for upcoming eps) >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >> But they had that McCoy/Spockesque scene with Neelix & Tuvok in the messhall << It was nice to see Tuvok and Neelix together again, though I still didn't detect much respect for Neelix from Tuvok. Tuvok was kind of arrogant here, I have to say. You'd think at the age of 114, Tuvok would have a sense of his limitations. >> <g> As for Tom laughing at him--he did laugh/smile but I thought I saw a look of "poor guy must be beat"expression and its not like he get up from the helm and wake Tuvok up. << He *should* have gotten up from the helm to wake Tuvok up. He left the helm when the call from Kim and Torres came through a few seconds later, so it's not like he couldn't. Instead, he stage-whispers a wake-up call to Tuvok, making it certain that everyone on the bridge would notice he was asleep. >> I thought he kicked some hiney in "Live Long and Prosper" <g> plus don't forget "Fury" which I'm sure will feature some good Tuvok and Unimatrix Zero.."beware the ides of an assimilated Vulcan!" << I have some hope for "Fury." I doubt we'll see much Tuvok at all in the finale. The main story is supposed to be about the Borg rebellion and Seven's steamy romance. Janeway getting assimilated will probably get some screen time, but not Tuvok or Torres. >> This guy was a fanfiction writers's dream! << Yeah, I noticed that. I wonder if it was intentional. >> Yeah that's true. I just thought it was an odd question for so early in the episode at that point he shouldn't have known about the other Voyager crewmembers other then Kim & Torres so for him to ask that question I was like "how do you even know who Paris is?" << He knew about the whole crew before then. The opening scene has the aliens performing a play starring the Voyager "eternals." He'd gone through all the logs before Torres even woke up. >> ROTFLMAO! A bitter custody fight over Harry to be settled by Janeway?!? << Pity poor Harry. He must get caught in the middle a lot. Tom and B'Elanna fight a lot even when they're getting along well, and Harry's a close friend to both of them. >> They seemed like they were together in "Good Shepard" so I'll go with prying for a $100. << I thought that mess hall scene in "Shepherd" was simply awful. Paris and Torres seemed to really hate each other in that scene. It wasn't just teasing. There was actual malice involved. If they are together still, it's not going well. >> This guy is a stranger, Torres is a private person plus she said it herself "when you're being attacked by the Borg/Species 8472 the last thing on your mind is romance" B'ELann was in the middle of a crisis and while she may love Tom talking about him with a stranger isn't going to get her off this planet. << You'd think after four years together that Torres would be able to say, "Yeah, he's my S.O." without it being a big deal. Unless it's not going well. >> My speculation is that *something* ended on the editing room floor. << I doubt it. This was typical of the way the writers handle P/T. (I *know* them. I knew there would be no reunion scene, for example, and posted as much last week. The writers just don't like dealing with stuff like that.) >> Again I go back to Kelis "Are you in love with Tom Paris" statement. What made him even ask the question BEFORE he knew anything about the crew?<< He knew all about the crew before the episode even started. That was established in the opening scene. I wonder if we'll get some reaction from Paris when Torres dies in "Fury." I'm beginning to think we won't, since, judging from the promo, a lot of people get it in this ep. (I can see the Big Red Reset button blinking from here.) -- Arlie

2000-04-27 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (tc8870@aol.com)


>>>spoiler space (including for upcoming eps) >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>> > >He *should* have gotten up from the helm to wake Tuvok up. He left the helm >when the call from Kim and Torres came through a few seconds later, so it's >not like he couldn't. Instead, he stage-whispers a wake-up call to Tuvok, making it certain that everyone on the bridge would it certain that everyone on the bridge would notice he was asleep. Everybody already *knew* Tuvok was asleep. You could hear him snoring all the way in the Alpha Quadrant. If you watch the background crew notices before Tom does. <g> He taunt or mock Tuvok andhe didn't even laugh outloud. He could have left him snoring on the bridge for the amusement of the others instead of *discreetly* trying to wake him up. Maybe he should have gotten up from his post and gentle shook Tuvok away but wouldn't that had drawn more attention? As for getting out of his chair Tuvok's snoring vs a distress call from your lost friends isn't really a fair comparison--at least I don't think. :-) >I have some hope for "Fury." I doubt we'll see much Tuvok at all in the finale. I agree Tuvok will be features alot (I hope) in "Fury" and maybe "The Haunting..." because it sounds ensemble but LifeLines is a "Doc" episode and the finale is probably going to Janeway & 7... >>> This guy was a fanfiction writers's dream! << >Yeah, I noticed that. I wonder if it was intentional. I think it was. A few fanfictions do what the poet was doing rewritting characters to fit their perspection. I think that was Menosky's nod to them--plus I still say he was taking a few slams at the Voy writing staff <g> >He knew about the whole crew before then. The opening scene has the aliens >performing a play starring the Voyager "eternals." He'd gone through all the >logs before Torres even woke up. You're right. It didn't click at first with me but he asked Torres about Earth. He couldn't have known about Earth unless he did read the database/logs. >Pity poor Harry. He must get caught in the middle a lot. Tom and B'Elanna >fight a lot even when they're getting along well, and Harry's a close friend >to both of them. Naaaaaaah Harry's to busy bagging *both* Delaney sisters! lol >You'd think after four years together that Torres would be able to say, "Yeah, >he's my S.O." without it being a big deal. Unless it's not going well. True. But since they were so vague I guess I'll still go with prying and this guy being a stranger. I agree with you he, he accessed the logs maybe even the personal logs. Torres may have made some sort of personal reference towards/about Tom that prompted Kelis to say "Tom Paris, are you in love with him?" I mean if it was something negative about Tom or the state of their relationship that wouldn't seem like the right question for the writers to put in Kelis mouth. I wonder if Menoksy was being intentional vague for a reason or that's just how it was written. Like you said, the writers don't like dealing with that stuff--which was sort of the underline message from the play too. Of course, they could have broken them up to make room for 7's romance--maybe 7's lover ends up a semi-regular for next season. >I wonder if we'll get some reaction from Paris when Torres dies in "Fury." I'm >beginning to think we won't, since, judging from the promo, a lot of people >get it in this ep. I doubt it. The spoilers make it sound like Kes comes through and starts whooping some hiney from the word "go". She comes tearing through engineering, grabs the warpcore, Torres tries to stop her, get zapped (and dies), Kes instantly becomes young and disappear to earlier Voyager time. It seems to happen pretty quick so I doubt Paris will even know she dead unless he's down in engineering which means who the heck is flying this bucket of bolts LOL If they are still together I'm curious to see Paris's reaction to B'ELanna as a Borg. According to Roxann Dawson (on line intervieiw) she said she was in full Borg makeup so we can assume the audience will see her and I'd think they'd want a reaction shot from the crew. I STILL can't believe Harry who seemed breed for this purpose or the borgophobic Chakotay aren't the ones getting it! lol Zoe

2000-04-27 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (tc8870@aol.com)


>>>spoiler space >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >>>. >> >>At least B'ELanna got to some "flirting' lol But what was the deal with the >>Gwen Paltrow actress wanna-be? PUH-LEEZ! If BLT can whoop 7 of 9's hiney >then should have easily whooped that little blonde butt. >I don't understand your point. Why would she want to? > Don't pay any attention to me lol I was just channeling my "inner Tom Paris" and being a smart a$$ <g> It was in reference to the blonde's jealous lover routine towards B'ELanna about Kelis. Zoe >-- Amarna

2000-04-27 00:00:00 - "Muse" - SPOILERS - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


spoiler space . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Well, this was an odd episode of Voyager. As I've grown to expect from a Joe Menosky script. I suppose I have to applaud them for trying something different...but in the end, this one just didn't work for me. Almost all the characters except Torres had mere token roles. I'm afraid this really weakened the episode. They tried to show us how concerned everyone was over the missing Torres and Kim, but the Voyager scenes were too brief to make it convincing. We see Tom throwing a fit in the briefing room, and everyone looking at him funny. We see Tuvok staying up for more than ten days and falling asleep on the bridge. We see good shepherd Janeway mooning about her cabin over her missing sheep. Though I'm always clamoring for more warmth between the characters, all this simply did not ring true. We've had crew members go missing before, even die, and never saw this kind of histrionics. IMO, this episode would have worked better if they used the regular cast more. Show us Torres ordering Harry to save himself, not the alien players' reenactment. Show us enough of the rest of the crew's concern to make it convincing. Show us *why* the crew wants B'Elanna back so much. (Okay, we all know her and like her. But to a casual viewer, this episode displayed a bad-tempered engineer who can't even fix anything until Harry shows up. I like bitchy B'Elanna, but she was awfully unpleasant here. I suppose she had reason, but it didn't make her a terribly likable figure to base an episode around.) The "Tuvok sleeping on the bridge scene" wasn't quite as bad as I feared. At least he had an excuse: he was exhausting himself trying to find B'Elanna and Harry. (He's been a mentor of sorts to both of them; perhaps that explains his illogical behavior.) But Paris' amusement was out of place, given the situation. Especially since Tuvok fell asleep because he had forsaken rest in order to find Tom's friends. The ones he threw a hissy fit over in the briefing room earlier, remember? All in all, I found this one slow-paced and tedious. Even though I really like B'Elanna. I suppose the point, if there was one, was that "writers aren't useless, they actually can make the world a better place." I can see why this would be of interest to Menosky, but he didn't manage to make it interesting to the average viewer. And I was right: no reunion scene. Unless you count the one between Harry and B'Elanna. I'm sure K/Ters across the land were ecstatic at their enthusiastic embrace. It did show more feeling than the last 50 episodes' worth of P/T scenes put together...but that's not saying a whole heck of a lot. <g> Seriously, I don't think I can remember ever seeing B'Elanna so happy. Or maybe it's just in contrast to how crabby she was throughout this episode. Notes: B'Elanna eats the alien food offered her without even scanning it to see if it's compatible with human/Klingon physiology. I suppose if you can eat gagh you can eat anything. B'Elanna orders Harry to save himself (even though he thinks they should die together, if you believe the aliens' version). Instead, she almost kills him. If he hadn't turned around and followed her, he'd have died in that escape pod. As it was, he had to hike 200 km (about 90 miles), at night, through a war zone, to end up where he'd have been if Torres hadn't ordered him to abandon ship. Geez, Lanna, don't do Harry any more favors. Speaking of Harry...six years on the senior staff, and B'Elanna still thinks of him as "young Harry Kim." The makeup and lighting could have been better. Paris in particular looked awful this week. Puffy and haggard at the same time, if that's possible. Are Paris and Torres still together? She didn't seem to mind Tom and Seven kissing. In fact, she seemed more upset at Janeway and Chuckles kissing. (Hmmmm.....) And Harry got *both* Delaney sisters? What has B'Elanna been telling these people? Next week: if you thought B'Elanna was cranky this week, wait'll you see Kes next week. -- Arlie

2000-04-27 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (Ann Johnson <Johnson.Ann@att.net>)


"Arlie" <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message news:20000426232825.13030.00000784@ng-ch1.aol.com... > spoiler space > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > Well, this was an odd episode of Voyager. As I've grown to expect from a Joe > Menosky script. I suppose I have to applaud them for trying something > different...but in the end, this one just didn't work for me. I think there are "levels" to this episode. I'm sure rewatching it in the future will reveal more levels of meaning that were apparent in the first viewing. > B'Elanna eats the alien food offered her without even scanning it to see if > it's compatible with human/Klingon physiology. I suppose if you can eat gagh > you can eat anything. The poet assumed that she hadn't left the shuttle after she threw him out. She'd probably scanned the indiginous food for compantibility. > Speaking of Harry...six years on the senior staff, and B'Elanna still thinks of > him as "young Harry Kim." And Seven as the Borg Queen! I think it was more of the poet's artistic license than B'Elanna's actual views. > The makeup and lighting could have been better. Paris in particular looked > awful this week. Puffy and haggard at the same time, if that's possible. He missed B'Elanna.

2000-04-27 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (tc8870@aol.com)


>spoiler space >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >IMO, this episode would have worked better if they used the regular cast more. This episode was just a bit too guest star heavy for me. I don't know from guest stars's feelings/emotions but I do know the regulars. They either should have shown us more of the crew or omitted those scenes all together. I think it would have been cool at some point if an away team had beamed down and found Torres just before the war started. Torres so inspired/moved implores the crew to play themselves using the poet's work. >We see Tom throwing a fit in the briefing room, and everyone looking at him funny. We see Tuvok staying up for more than ten days and falling asleep on the bridge. We see good shepherd Janeway mooning about her cabin over her missing sheep. Though I'm always clamoring for more warmth between the characters, all this simply did not ring true. We've had crew >members go missing before, even die, and never saw this kind of histrionics. > > The emotional "fits" I didn't mind so much. What bugged me was how "unactive and accepting" of Torres & Kim's fate. I mean is this the same Voyager crew & Captain who went searching for the Borg cube that took their beloved Janeway? That went after Chakotay's "supposed" kid in Basics I II--that stared down a Borg cube to get back one of the Borglettes in "Child's Play"? We've seen the crew way more proactive over finding leeloa root then they were today lol I was *shocked* when Janeway got all Vklempt <sp> in her office. What the HECK was that??? I mean I could see if they believed them truly dead but they were still searching for them. >The "Tuvok sleeping on the bridge scene" wasn't quite as bad as I feared. Uncle Tuvy falling asleep on the bridge was the highlight of the show for me "As you were!" LMAO See this is one of those episodes where I sit and watch and wonder what the other actors not being showcased were doing. lol > But Paris' amusement was out of place, *shrug* That didn't bother me a whole lot Even in really dark times, something can happen that can make you smile or laugh even when you don't want to. At least he didn't taunt Tuvok about it. <g> Plus it was sort of funny. I don't know, this episode had it good moments: Dawson's talent being showcased, a few funny lines, the stuff with 7 of 9 being the "Borg Queen" (foreshadowing to Unimatriz Zero perhaps? lol) The stuff with J/C and Harry & The Delaney sisters.... "Harry Kim Sex Stud!" lol Yeah what HAS she being telling these people?!? Torres being the engineering and working on the DF's systems. >Are Paris and Torres still together? She didn't seem to mind Tom and Seven? Question: That guy--Kelis <sp> ask Torres if she's in love with Tom Paris. Ummmmm why would he ask her that? I mean know he heard the audio about abandoning ship but I really don't see Torres mention her relationship with Paris in that capacity? It would have made more sense (and I'm a P/T fan) for him to ask if she was in love with Harry Kim since Harry was on the Flyer with her--DUH! I'm gonna go out on a limb and say yeah P/T are still together--they were sharing a "tv" in Good Shepard a few episodes ago. lol At least B'ELanna got to some "flirting' lol But what was the deal with the Gwen Paltrow actress wanna-be? PUH-LEEZ! If BLT can whoop 7 of 9's hiney then should have easily whooped that little blonde butt. Maybe the episode was less about Torres and more about the inside joke of being a writer looking for inspiration. B'ELanna inspired the poet--the Voyager character inspire the writers--or I should say 7 of 9 inspires the writers <eg>. OMG--its all about Braga & how 7 of 9 is his inspiration lol Next week: FURY staring Kes. "Mama is home and she AINT happy!" lol Zoe

2000-04-27 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>spoiler space >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >. >> This episode was just a bit too guest star heavy for me. << That's my complaint with most of the episodes this season. They tend to focus on one regular, and a guest star or three. I'd much prefer a focus on pairs or groups of regulars. >> They either should have shown us more of the crew or omitted those scenes all together. << I agree. Those shipboard scenes were too little, or too much. A few tiny scenes cannot replace actual character development -- even if you make them way over the top. >> Uncle Tuvy falling asleep on the bridge was the highlight of the show for me "As you were!" LMAO << I thought it was silly and illogical. My favorite scene would be the Torres-Kim reunion. Since they didn't give us any other reunion scene.... >> > But Paris' amusement was out of place, *shrug* That didn't bother me a whole lot Even in really dark times, something can happen that can make you smile or laugh even when you don't want to. << But RDM didn't play it that way. He played it like just another day on the bridge. They'd never have done this to Spock on TOS. He might fall asleep from exhaustion, but it wouldn't be on the bridge, and he wouldn't be snoring. And McCoy would have worried if he was all right, then given him a gentle, grudging admonishment to take better care of himself. Not just woken him up and laughed at him. I really felt this scene was humiliating to the character of Tuvok. If it was just this once, I might overlook it, but the overall pattern this season is awful. Tuvok is perpetually either sick, injured, or the ship's joke. Even in his own episode, "Riddles," he was child-like and something of a laughingstock. We need to see him kick some hiney, and fast. >> Question: That guy--Kelis <sp> ask Torres if she's in love with Tom Paris. Ummmmm why would he ask her that? << So far as I can tell, he just wanted to see romance everywhere. I mean, Paris/Seven??? Her reaction was also interesting. She got mad. Because she resented his prying? Because she's not sure if she loves Tom? Because they broke up and she didn't want to talk about it? >> It would have made more sense (and I'm a P/T fan) for him to ask if she was in love with Harry Kim since Harry was on the Flyer with her << No, I think Torres made it clear that she didn't see Harry in a romantic light. He's "young Harry Kim," and "just a boy." That's not how you talk about a lover. >> -DUH! I'm gonna go out on a limb and say yeah P/T are still together--they were sharing a "tv" in Good Shepard a few episodes ago. lol << They mentioned "our TV," but maybe it's just communal property, after the split. <g> >> Maybe the episode was less about Torres and more about the inside joke of being a writer looking for inspiration. << I have a feeling this episode was far more interesting to the writers (and possibly the actors) than to the audience. -- Arlie

2000-04-27 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (tc8870@aol.com)


>>spoiler space >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >>. >They'd never have done this to Spock on TOS. He might fall asleep from >exhaustion, but it wouldn't be on the bridge, and he wouldn't be snoring. >And McCoy would have worried if he was all right, then given him a gentle, >grudging admonishment to take better care of himself. But they had that McCoy/Spockesque scene with Neelix & Tuvok in the messhall <g> As for Tom laughing at him--he did laugh/smile but I thought I saw a look of "poor guy must be beat"expression and its not like he get up from the helm and wake Tuvok up. >I really felt this scene was humiliating to the character of Tuvok. If it >was just this once, I might overlook it, but the overall pattern this season is >awful. Tuvok is perpetually either sick, injured, or the ship's joke. Even >in his own episode, "Riddles," he was child-like and something of a >laughingstock. We need to see him kick some hiney, and fast. I thought he kicked some hiney in "Live Long and Prosper" <g> plus don't forget "Fury" which I'm sure will feature some good Tuvok and Unimatrix Zero.."beware the ides of an assimilated Vulcan!" >So far as I can tell, he just wanted to see romance everywhere. I mean, >Paris/Seven??? This guy was a fanfiction writers's dream! LMAO Paris/7..that huge between Kim & Torres? You know the J/C fans were going ballistic! >No, I think Torres made it clear that she didn't see Harry in a romantic light. He's "young Harry Kim," and "just a boy." That's not how you talk about a lover. Yeah that's true. I just thought it was an odd question for so early in the episode at that point he shouldn't have known about the other Voyager crewmembers other then Kim & Torres so for him to ask that question I was like "how do you even know who Paris is?" I bet he was going all through Kim & Torres's personal LOGS while she was unconscious the little THIEF! lol >They mentioned "our TV," but maybe it's just communal property, after the split. <g> ROTFLMAO! A bitter custody fight over Harry to be settled by Janeway?!? "Will know one think of the ensigns!" You know if they did Vorick's in a corner right now bringing his arms down like "YES!" and slapping on the High Karate cologne! >Her reaction was also interesting. She got mad. Because she resented his >prying? Because she's not sure if she loves Tom? Because they broke up and >she didn't want to talk about it? They seemed like they were together in "Good Shepard" so I'll go with prying for a $100. This guy is a stranger, Torres is a private person plus she said it herself "when you're being attacked by the Borg/Species 8472 the last thing on your mind is romance" B'ELann was in the middle of a crisis and while she may love Tom talking about him with a stranger isn't going to get her off this planet. My speculation is that *something* ended on the editing room floor. Again I go back to Kelis "Are you in love with Tom Paris" statement. What made him even ask the question BEFORE he knew anything about the crew? Ah HECK we need an insider to tell us the real deal cause you know the Voyager writers won't lol Eh what do I know--they probably did break them up just to make way for the speculated 7 romance for UZ. Which reminds me isn't 7 getting a romance during the back drop of a Borg resistance a TOTAL contridiction of everything that was said in this episode? lol >I have a feeling this episode was far more interesting to the writers (and possibly the actors) than to the audience. Definantly. This was a episode for the writers--full of subtle hints, inside jokes and digs not only at the audience but at each other. The poets version of Voyager was like a "what if I a fan wrote the show" thing. And did you hear that old poet talking about "gimmicks and tricks" not being necessary? I wonder if that was Menosky's swan song slam against Braga & Co lol Zoe

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> I didn't think Tom was unkind at all here. << I didn't think he was unkind...just that his reaction was *wrong*. If Kim and Torres hadn't been missing and feared dead, if Tuvok fell asleep *after* all was well, then Tom's reaction would have been appropriate. But as shown, it rang very false. (As did much of this episode.) >> As for Tuvok falling asleep at the bridge, that's just another misuse of the character, but what's new. Tuvok is a Vulcan, and though he is friends with Kim and Torres in his own Vulcan way, he would know that he could best help his friends by staying as alert and sharp as possible, not by exhausting himself to the point where he couldn't even stay awake. Illogical and pointless to say the least. << Exactly. >> I kind of saw it as Menosky's parting shot about his and Braga's view of Star Trek, rather than a swipe at fanfic. More like a swipe at all the fans who push for romance, be it P/T, J/C or otherwise. << Not just fans who want romance -- *all* fans who think Voyager should go in a different direction than it is. >> B'Elanna does tend to protect her personal business, and at this point she barely knows Kellis. I think she just wasn't about to discuss her personal life with him. << It doesn't surprise me that the writers would make this choice, but IMO, it's a mistake. By now, Paris and Torres should be "old marrieds." Telling people Tom's her SO should be as normal as telling people she's an engineer on Voyager. (Especially since the writers have been known to use that as an excuse not to deal with P/T: they're boring old marrieds now, nothing to see here...) >> Either way, as you say, she must have said something positive, or why would Kellis assume she was in love with Tom? << I don't buy it. Kellis obviously saw romance everywhere. (I mean, Seven/Paris? There's never been even the tiniest hint of that, and we can assume Torres didn't say anything positive about that pairing.) And we obviously didn't see all their conversations. For all we know, he'd already asked Torres if she was in love with Chakotay, Tuvok, Neelix, Harry, Seven, and Freddie Bristow. -- Arlie

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


Amarna said: >> I saw it completely differently. All of them were constantly working. Tuvok getting no sleep. Tom continuously on the Bridge. Janeway working in her Ready room. Chakotay working on his own. << I found the crew's reactions very odd, as I said in another post. On the one hand, they seemed awfully carefree and lighthearted (Neelix, Tom on the bridge). But at other times, their reactions seemed way over the top. (Tuvok giving up sleep, Janeway nearly sobbing in her ready room.) Crewmen have gone missing, even died before, and not elicited this kind of response. -- Arlie

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (tc8870@aol.com)


>>>>spoiler space (including for upcoming eps) >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>> >I just find this incredibly annoying. I mean, we know Torres isn't going to >stay dead, just as we knew last night that Harry and Torres would be back on >Voyager at the end of the episode. The only reason to do stuff like that is >to watch the characters react to it. But they never give us that. You're TOTALLY preaching to the choir over here! lol I mean we could see some reaction to Torres's dying but I doubt that and I'm like what's the point? When you endanger characters like Torres, Paris, Janeway, Harry, Tuvok ectra its perfectly logical and just to see the reaction and emotion from the other characters. They could take at least 3-5 to show an honest emotional reaction to a beloved collegue, friend, pupil, lover's death--and I don't mean those trifling little 2 second camera shots. I mean its such a total RIP OFF to the audience and a disservice to the character. If they don't care about reaction & emotion then they should stick to killing off ensigns--that's what they breed for <eg> Except for Harry "The Boy Who Would be Captain" Kim, of course. >-- Arlie Zoe >

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>>>spoiler space (including for upcoming eps) >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>>. >>>> >> You're TOTALLY preaching to the choir over here! lol I mean we could see some reaction to Torres's dying but I doubt that and I'm like what's the point? When you endanger characters like Torres, Paris, Janeway, Harry, Tuvok ectra its perfectly logical and just to see the reaction and emotion from the other characters. They could take at least 3-5 to show an honest emotional reaction to a beloved collegue, friend, pupil, lover's death--and I don't mean those trifling little 2 second camera shots. I mean its such a total RIP OFF to the audience and a disservice to the character. If they don't care about reaction & emotion then they should stick to killing off ensigns--that's what they breed for <eg> Except for Harry "The Boy Who Would be Captain" Kim, of course. << LOL. You know, I've been thinking about why Harry Kim was along on the mission at all. We know Torres sometimes takes shuttles out on her own ("Barge"). Yes, he comes along and saves B'Elanna at the last minute, but they could have written it so that she saves herself, using her stories of Voyager to get enough parts to fix the shuttle. I think the whole reason they wrote Harry as missing, too (instead of angsting over her disappearance with the rest of the crew) was to mute the relationships. With both of them missing, we never know if Tom's tantrum in the briefing room is for Harry or B'Elanna. If Tuvok is more concerned for Torres or Kim when he forsakes sleep to find them. Which one of them Neelix is missing most when he says it's quiet without them. The two most compelling scenes, character-wise, were the Kim-Torres reunion scene, and the scene where Janeway broods over Harry's possible death in the escape pod. Precisely because they were about a single personal relationship, and not a generic "concern for crewmates." But this episode seemed to be constructed in order to limit that kind of scene. -- Arlie

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (juli17@aol.com)


> >>He *should* have gotten up from the helm to wake Tuvok up. He left the helm >>when the call from Kim and Torres came through a few seconds later, so it's >>not like he couldn't. Instead, he stage-whispers a wake-up call to Tuvok, >making it certain that everyone on the bridge would it certain that everyone >on >the bridge would notice he was asleep. > >Everybody already *knew* Tuvok was asleep. You could hear him snoring all the >way in the Alpha Quadrant. If you watch the background crew notices before >Tom >does. <g> He taunt or mock Tuvok andhe didn't even laugh outloud. He could >have >left him snoring on the bridge for the amusement of the others instead of >*discreetly* trying to wake him up. Maybe he should have gotten up from his >post and gentle shook Tuvok away but wouldn't that had drawn more attention? >As >for getting out of his chair Tuvok's snoring vs a distress call from your >lost >friends isn't really a fair comparison--at least I don't think. :-) Agreed. I didn't think Tom was unkind at all here. I don't know how many people on the bridge heard Tuvok snoring, but if Tom got up and went to Tuvok, then everyone would have followed his action (since it would be unusual to suddenly get up and approach the captain's chair), and have gotten an even better look at Tuvok snoring? Tom was close enough to stage whisper to Tuvok, hoping to get his attention. I didn't see anything taunting about Tom's actions. And though Tom had a bit of a smile on his face, it wasn't malicious at all. It was also interesting that Tom smiled to *himself*, looking away from the rest of the crew. He was hardly trying to make Tuvok look bad. As for Tuvok falling asleep at the bridge, that's just another misuse of the character, but what's new. Tuvok is a Vulcan, and though he is friends with Kim and Torres in his own Vulcan way, he would know that he could best help his friends by staying as alert and sharp as possible, not by exhausting himself to the point where he couldn't even stay awake. Illogical and pointless to say the least. >>I have some hope for "Fury." I doubt we'll see much Tuvok at all in the >finale. > >I agree Tuvok will be features alot (I hope) in "Fury" and maybe "The >Haunting..." because it sounds ensemble but LifeLines is a "Doc" episode and >the finale is probably going to Janeway & 7... > >>>> This guy was a fanfiction writers's dream! << >>Yeah, I noticed that. I wonder if it was intentional. > >I think it was. A few fanfictions do what the poet was doing rewritting >characters to fit their perspection. I think that was Menosky's nod to >them--plus I still say he was taking a few slams at the Voy writing staff <g> I kind of saw it as Menosky's parting shot about his and Braga's view of Star Trek, rather than a swipe at fanfic. More like a swipe at all the fans who push for romance, be it P/T, J/C or otherwise. He was clearly dismissive of romance (using B'Elanna as his mouthpiece), no more so than in the juxtaposition between the play's J/C kissing scene and the real J/C scene where Janeway is very impersonal with Chakotay, to the point of saying "Goodnight, COMMANDER" when she wanted him to get the hell out of her quarters. >>He knew about the whole crew before then. The opening scene has the aliens >>performing a play starring the Voyager "eternals." He'd gone through all >the >>logs before Torres even woke up. > >You're right. It didn't click at first with me but he asked Torres about >Earth. >He couldn't have known about Earth unless he did read the database/logs. > >>You'd think after four years together that Torres would be able to say, "Yeah, he's my S.O."< >"Yeah, >True. But since they were so vague I guess I'll still go with prying and this >guy being a stranger. I agree with you he, he accessed the logs maybe even >the >personal logs. Torres may have made some sort of personal reference >towards/about Tom that prompted Kelis to say "Tom Paris, are you in love with >him?" I mean if it was something negative about Tom or the state of their >relationship that wouldn't seem like the right question for the writers to >put >in Kelis mouth. B'Elanna does tend to protect her personal business, and at this point she barely knows Kellis. I think she just wasn't about to discuss her personal life with him. As for how Kellis got the impression B'Elanna was in love with Tom, obviously he either... 1. Listened to some of her personal logs where she mentioned Tom in some affectionate or suggestive way. or... 2. B'Elanna was feverish and out of it for 8 days. She was probably delirious also, and she might have said something about Tom in that state, or called out for him, or something of that nature. Either way, as you say, she must have said something positive, or why would Kellis assume she was in love with Tom? >I wonder if Menoksy was being intentional vague for a reason or that's just >how >it was written. Like you said, the writers don't like dealing with that >stuff--which was sort of the underline message from the play too. Of course, >they could have broken them up to make room for 7's romance--maybe 7's lover >ends up a semi-regular for next season. > Again Kellis' impression that B'Elanna is in love with Tom kind of negates that they've broken up. B'Elanna's really not the type who's going to say something affectionate or nice about Tom if they've parted company. And though it's been said before, if you're looking for confirmation directly from the source, Braga was asked about P/T at Grand Slam and said they are a "couple" (which is all he said, kind of with a "They are a couple, what more do you want, next question" attitude). Of course if anyone dislikes romance in Star Trek less than Braga, it's Menosky, which as you point out seemed to be his underlying message in this episode. Julie

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (juli17@aol.com)


> >Arlie wrote: >> >> spoiler space >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . > >> Are Paris and Torres still together? She didn't seem to mind Tom and Seven >> kissing. In fact, she seemed more upset at Janeway and Chuckles kissing. >> (Hmmmm.....) > >That's because she can picture Tom going after Seven but the thought of >Janeway and Chakotay together just disgusts her. She looked like she was >going to get sick. > Actually B'Elanna was *watching* Janeway and Chakotay make out, not Tom and Seven, nor Harry and the Delaney sisters. That was likely why she reacted much more strongly to them--she had to look at it. She just mentioned Tom and Seven, and Harry and the Delaney sisters as an add on to her protest. Kellis had either told her about those pairings, or if she'd seen them earlier she'd had time to get over her disgust at having to experience their make out scenes up close and personal too. Julie

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>>> spoiler space >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . >> . > >> Are Paris and Torres still together? She didn't seem to mind Tom and Seven >> kissing. In fact, she seemed more upset at Janeway and Chuckles kissing. >> (Hmmmm.....) > >That's because she can picture Tom going after Seven but the thought of >Janeway and Chakotay together just disgusts her. She looked like she was >going to get sick. > Actually B'Elanna was *watching* Janeway and Chakotay make out, not Tom and Seven, nor Harry and the Delaney sisters. That was likely why she reacted much more strongly to them--she had to look at it. She just mentioned Tom and Seven, and Harry and the Delaney sisters as an add on to her protest. Kellis had either told her about those pairings, or if she'd seen them earlier she'd had time to get over her disgust at having to experience their make out scenes up close and personal too. << Possibly. Nevertheless, the writers intentionally let pass this opportunity to shed some light on the P/T relationship. As they did in the scene where Kelis explicitly asked about it. And by writing Harry as missing, too, they allowed Tom to chew the scenery without it necessarily being about him and B'Elanna. I'm really amazed at the lengths they'll go to to avoid writing P/T. -- Arlie

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (tc8870@aol.com)


* * * * * * * * (spoiler space just in case) >I kind of saw it as Menosky's parting shot about his and Braga's view of Star Trek, rather than a swipe at fanfic. More like a swipe at all the fans who push for romance, be it P/T, J/C or otherwise. He was clearly dismissive of romance (using B'Elanna as his mouthpiece), no more so than in the >juxtaposition between the play's J/C kissing scene and the real J/C scene >where Janeway is very impersonal with Chakotay, to the point of saying "Goodnight, COMMANDER" when she wanted him to get the hell out of her quarters. > > Agreed. My opinion is that script was meant to take shots at everybody from the fans to the big wigs to even the staff of Voyager. The Warlord is Paramount/UPN who demands perfecting and rating grabbing stories for the network. Dare I say the other "Warlord" is a metaphor for a "rival" network. lol B'ELanna was speaking for Braga/Menoksy while Kelis represented the "fans". Kelis wanted intrigue, danger, romance, drama which is what the fans want. B'ELanna was there to basically tell him that ridicules and unnecessary. And isn't that what Braga has said all along that Trek "aint about romance" But there were a few digs at TPTB be themselves I thought. The old poet guy who believed in substance over gimmicks and tricks in comparison to Kelis idea. A little dig at Braga & Berman perhaps who seem to prefer action and "tricks" to get the ratings. Plus the "tempermental" actors <eg> >As for how Kellis got the impression B'Elanna was in love with Tom, obviously >he either... > >1. Listened to some of her personal logs where she mentioned Tom in some >affectionate or suggestive way. or... > >2. B'Elanna was feverish and out of it for 8 days. She was probably delirious >also, and she might have said something about Tom in that state, or called >out for him, or something of that nature. Agreed. And its the little "hows" like those that drive me crazy. I think Menosky did that on purpose lol I wonder if that was Menoksy's way of telling the P/T fans--"Yeah they're still together so just *chill out* LOL >Of course if anyone dislikes romance in Star Trek less than Braga, it's Menosky, which as you point out seemed to be his underlying message in this episode. I never knew Menoksy's opinon but Braga has all but said he doesn't like long term romantic relationship. My question to him would be "then why didn't you just break them up?" P/T , J/C and even the budding K/7 were all Jeri Taylor's babies. She was gone by 5th season right? He could have broken them up and Rick Berman would have gone along with it I bet. While Braga has done some interesting storytelling and romantic tanglement aside, the show really lacks in emotion depth and character sometimes. I'm hoping with Kennth Biller coming back on board Voyager will be able to find some balance between action/drama & emotion. >Julie Zoe

2000-04-28 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (tc8870@aol.com)


>>>>>spoiler space (including for upcoming eps) >>>>>. >>>>>. >>>>>. >>>>>. >>>>>. >>>>>. >>>>>. >>>>>. >>>>>. >>>>> >I think the whole reason they wrote Harry as missing, too (instead of angsting >over her disappearance with the rest of the crew) was to mute the relationships. With both of them missing, we never know if Tom's tantrum in the briefing room is for Harry or B'Elanna. If Tuvok is more concerned for Torres or Kim when he forsakes sleep to find them. Which one of them Neelix is missing most when he says it's quiet without them. > > > Interesting idea and probably some truth in it. Vaugeness seemed to be a running theme in this episode. The crews's mourning (althou I say Tom was mourning for both his friends), Kelis query about P/T relationship and Torres's response ectra...Menosky didn't seem to want the fans to *know* anything as an absolute certainity on purpose. By accident. by trying to be clever or maybe just sticking it to all us *demanding* fans who complaing about emotion depth and warmth. lol > >-- Arlie Zoe

2000-04-29 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (juli17@aol.com)


> >>> I didn't think Tom was unkind at all here. << > >I didn't think he was unkind...just that his reaction was *wrong*. If Kim >and >Torres hadn't been missing and feared dead, if Tuvok fell asleep *after* all >was well, then Tom's reaction would have been appropriate. But as shown, it >rang very false. (As did much of this episode.) > Funny you should say that, because my first impression *was* that they had already received B'Elanna's transmission and were on their way to the Delta Flyer. I got that impression *because* Tom and Tuvok were both so relaxed, Tuvok to the point of being asleep. I shortly realized I was wrong. I have a feeling this scene was thrown in to add a dash of humor in the episode, but it was done at the wrong time, IMO. > >>> Either way, as you say, she must have said something positive, or why >would >Kellis assume she > was in love with Tom? << > >I don't buy it. Kellis obviously saw romance everywhere. (I mean, >Seven/Paris? There's never been even the tiniest hint of that, and we can >assume Torres didn't say anything positive about that pairing.) And we >obviously didn't see all their conversations. For all we know, he'd already >asked Torres if she was in love with Chakotay, Tuvok, Neelix, Harry, Seven, >and >Freddie Bristow. > I got the impression this was one of their first conversations though, if not the first conversation after he had untied her. It was his first offering of food. If he'd already asked her about other pairings I think she would have mentioned his fixation on the subject. No, this gave every indication of Kellis making the comment because he somehow got the real impression that B'Elanna was in love with Tom Paris *specifically,* not that it was a name he just pulled out of a hat. That is the conclusion that is best supported, IMO. Julie

2000-04-29 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> Funny you should say that, because my first impression *was* that they had already received B'Elanna's transmission and were on their way to the Delta Flyer. I got that impression *because* Tom and Tuvok were both so relaxed, Tuvok to the point of being asleep. I shortly realized I was wrong. I have a feeling this scene was thrown in to add a dash of humor in the episode, but it was done at the wrong time, IMO. << You know, that's a good idea. It would have been a lot more palatable if they'd put it *after* they knew Torres and Kim were safe. >> I got the impression this was one of their first conversations though, if not the first conversation after he had untied her. It was his first offering of food. If he'd already asked her about other pairings I think she would have mentioned his fixation on the subject. No, this gave every indication of Kellis making the comment because he somehow got the real impression that B'Elanna was in love with Tom Paris *specifically,* not that it was a name he just pulled out of a hat. That is the conclusion that is best supported, IMO. << I don't agree. And I think it was really lame of them to raise the subject, then not do anything with it. This could have been a great opportunity to show us how much Torres has grown, how comfortable she is with her relationship now. Instead, we get a reaction more appropriate for season 4 -- unless they've broken up. -- Arlie

2000-05-01 00:00:00 - Re: "Muse" - SPOILERS - (juli17@aol.com)


>I don't agree. And I think it was really lame of them to raise the subject, >then not do anything with it. This could have been a great opportunity to >show >us how much Torres has grown, how comfortable she is with her relationship >now. > Instead, we get a reaction more appropriate for season 4 -- unless they've >broken up. > > >-- Arlie You're right about them blowing the opportunity. Given that B'Elanna has been comfortable enough with it before, there's little reason why she wouldn't be comfortable talking about Tom here. Except that she didn't know Kellis at all yet, and may have resented him butting into her personal business. That's probably the writer's assumption anyway. As far as them having broken up, Braga has said publicly that they are still a couple. And if this was some sort of foreshadowing of a break up, it would assume that TPTB actually bother to plot P/T and they don't care enough about it to do that. I think it was just another desultory nod to the relationship, and the lack of follow up was no different than the lack of follow up in "Memorial." That kind of follow up isn't high on their list. Julie