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2000-06-04 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - ("David B." <bothecat@hotmail.com>)


Tim Bruening wrote: > > Spoilers for Star Trek VI: > > In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, a cloaked Klingon ship fires > at Chancellor Gorkon's ship from just beneath the Enterprise. Then two > Enterprise crewmen board Gorkon's ship with gravity boots and kill > Gorkon. Later, a gravity boot is found in the locker of another crew > person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which > wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running > around barefooted? Maybe there's some cultural taboo against shoes. Actually, it was probably put in the film to makr Chekov look like a moron. And he's the freaking security chief...

2000-06-04 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (Mournful Ta' <tateria@yahoo.com>)


David B. <bothecat@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:393B0132.BFF26309@hotmail.com... > Tim Bruening wrote: > > > > Spoilers for Star Trek VI: > > > > In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, a cloaked Klingon ship fires > > at Chancellor Gorkon's ship from just beneath the Enterprise. Then two > > Enterprise crewmen board Gorkon's ship with gravity boots and kill > > Gorkon. Later, a gravity boot is found in the locker of another crew > > person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which > > wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running > > around barefooted? > > Maybe there's some cultural taboo against shoes. Actually, it was > probably put in the film to makr Chekov look like a moron. And he's the > freaking security chief... Well, them russians...

2000-06-04 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (ckelley@lrcm.usuhs.mil)


In article <393A0989.7AE62D5B@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: > In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, a cloaked Klingon ship fires > at Chancellor Gorkon's ship from just beneath the Enterprise. Then two > Enterprise crewmen board Gorkon's ship with gravity boots and kill > Gorkon. Later, a gravity boot is found in the locker of another crew > person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which > wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running > around barefooted? Maybe it's a plot device. ;-) -- Charles Kelley USUHS LRC/Library 4301 Jones Bridge Road Bethesda, MD 20814-4799 work e-mail address: ckelley@ulrcm.usuhs.mil home e-mail address: mnogojazyk@aol.com

2000-06-04 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (Tom Del Rosso <no.spam.please.t.delrosso@att.net>)


"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message news:393A0989.7AE62D5B@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us... > Spoilers for Star Trek VI: Damn, you spoiled it! > person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which > wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running > around barefooted? Maybe his feet require it, aside from the fact that standard shoes don't fit him. Maybe they have to be well-ventilated, or else, when he takes his shoes off at the end of the day, the environmental controls would be overwhelmed.

2000-06-04 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (John Porcella <bronson69@btinternet.com>)


"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message news:393A0989.7AE62D5B@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us... > Spoilers for Star Trek VI: > > > In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, a cloaked Klingon ship fires > at Chancellor Gorkon's ship from just beneath the Enterprise. Then two > Enterprise crewmen board Gorkon's ship with gravity boots and kill > Gorkon. Later, a gravity boot is found in the locker of another crew > person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which > wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running > around barefooted? > The Federation had to take into account the customs and beliefs of its members. Therefore allowances are made for different cultures. For example, Worf is allowed to wear a metallic sash which is not standard dress issue. Presumably, the webbed feet race must not need wear shoes! All the best to you, Tim. -- MESSAGE ENDS. John Porcella

2000-06-04 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (Bob Van Burkleo <rpvb3@mindspring.com>)


In article <393A0989.7AE62D5B@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: >Spoilers for Star Trek VI: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, a cloaked Klingon ship fires >at Chancellor Gorkon's ship from just beneath the Enterprise. Then two >Enterprise crewmen board Gorkon's ship with gravity boots and kill >Gorkon. Later, a gravity boot is found in the locker of another crew >person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which >wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running >around barefooted? hmmm, because his species doesn't wear shoes? I mean, the Federation and Starfleet will accomodate any cultural custom it can as part of its IDIC philosophy. -- Bob Van Burkleo rpvb3@mindspring.com http://rpvb3.home.mindspring.com "the difference between failure and success is doing a thing nearly right and doing a thing exactly right" - Edward Simmons

2000-06-04 00:00:00 - Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>)


Spoilers for Star Trek VI: In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, a cloaked Klingon ship fires at Chancellor Gorkon's ship from just beneath the Enterprise. Then two Enterprise crewmen board Gorkon's ship with gravity boots and kill Gorkon. Later, a gravity boot is found in the locker of another crew person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running around barefooted?

2000-06-05 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (tsalonie@alpha.hut.fi)


In article <rpvb3-BA5B47.08133704062000@news.uswest.net> Bob Van Burkleo <rpvb3@mindspring.com> writes: >In article <393A0989.7AE62D5B@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening ><tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: > >>Spoilers for Star Trek VI: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, a cloaked Klingon ship fires >>at Chancellor Gorkon's ship from just beneath the Enterprise. Then two >>Enterprise crewmen board Gorkon's ship with gravity boots and kill >>Gorkon. Later, a gravity boot is found in the locker of another crew >>person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which >>wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running >>around barefooted? >hmmm, because his species doesn't wear shoes? I mean, the Federation >and Starfleet will accomodate any cultural custom it can as part of its >IDIC philosophy. Actually, Starfleet regulations allow do one's superior to strip one of such simple things as earrings or hairbands. It's just that most superiors do not feel a need to do so. Adhering to the regulations is usually only used as a punitive measure, as in VOY "Learning Curve" and TNG "Ensign Ro". Worf can indeed keep his sash, and Nog his headpiece, as long as their superiors are not pissed off with them. Timo Saloniemi

2000-06-05 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (tsalonie@alpha.hut.fi)


In article <393A0989.7AE62D5B@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> writes: >Spoilers for Star Trek VI: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, a cloaked Klingon ship fires >at Chancellor Gorkon's ship from just beneath the Enterprise. Then two >Enterprise crewmen board Gorkon's ship with gravity boots and kill >Gorkon. Later, a gravity boot is found in the locker of another crew >person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which >wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running >around barefooted? With feet like that, what kind of shoes could the character theoretically have? Some sort of sandals, or perhaps very wide "boots" with lots of extra seams - the guy certainly couldn't insert his foot through a boot neck that was as narrow as his ankle, the way we humans do. Okay, so should he wear sandals or these special boots? Well, if he *can* walk without them on the cold floors or the floor grating, why should he wear anything? Sandals or special boots would not create the impression of being part of a uniform since they wouldn't be uniform with the rest of Fleet footwear. If they don't have utility value or symbolic value, then they are probably best omitted. Timo Saloniemi

2000-06-05 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (Craig <craig0629@worldnet.att.net>)


Tim Bruening <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message news:393A0989.7AE62D5B@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us... > Spoilers for Star Trek VI: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, a cloaked Klingon ship fires > at Chancellor Gorkon's ship from just beneath the Enterprise. Then two > Enterprise crewmen board Gorkon's ship with gravity boots and kill > Gorkon. Later, a gravity boot is found in the locker of another crew > person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which > wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running > around barefooted? Don't know why but the funny thing is the name of the crewman was "Dax". Craig

2000-06-09 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (me@home.com)


On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 21:34:01 -0400, ckelley@lrcm.usuhs.mil (Charles Kelley) wrote: > In article <393A0989.7AE62D5B@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening ><tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: > >> In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, a cloaked Klingon ship fires >> at Chancellor Gorkon's ship from just beneath the Enterprise. Then two >> Enterprise crewmen board Gorkon's ship with gravity boots and kill >> Gorkon. Later, a gravity boot is found in the locker of another crew >> person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which >> wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running >> around barefooted? > > Maybe it's a plot device. ;-) > >-- Maybe it's a sight gag Look at them all Through the darkness I'm bringing They're not sad at all They're actually singing They sing without juicers They sing without blenders They sing without flungers, cap-dablers, and smendlers

2000-06-09 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person - (Laura Goodwin <lalaura@altavista.net>)


Timo S Saloniemi wrote: > >In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, a cloaked Klingon ship fires > >at Chancellor Gorkon's ship from just beneath the Enterprise. Then two > >Enterprise crewmen board Gorkon's ship with gravity boots and kill > >Gorkon. Later, a gravity boot is found in the locker of another crew > >person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which > >wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running > >around barefooted? > > With feet like that, what kind of shoes could the character > theoretically have? Some sort of sandals, or perhaps very wide > "boots" with lots of extra seams - the guy certainly couldn't insert > his foot through a boot neck that was as narrow as his ankle, the > way we humans do. Oh, come on you guys. A true webbed foot would be like a waterfowl's: delicate, collapsible and flexible. Maybe that person couldn't wear standard issue boots, but they certainly could have tailored footwear, and I have no doubt they'd be able to put their pants on. They would have a zipper or something in the ankle seam if need be. This is not a big deal. He might have been barefoot because he'd been unceremoniously roused from bed of bath. We only see that creature for a second and are told nothing about even their immediate circumstances much lest about their history and cultural norms. Maybe their religion requires them to remain barefoot. Fleet would make allowances for such things. BTW, Just because a human in a rubber suit looks rigid and ungainly doesn't mean the creature they are playing actually would be. That person might in fact have delicate and flexible feet, appearances to the contrary. Laura Goodwin http://www.cabo-one.com/lalaura/tos.html

2000-06-12 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person - (kemosabe@skyenet.net)


On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:27:03 -0400, "Mark McComb" <mmccomb@ford.com> wrote: | I wonder if any judges are Vulcan. It would certainly speed up trials: |Judge doing a mind meld with the accused: "Yep, he's guilty. And he also wet |his pants in the first grade!" Masked Man------>Wouldnt this "testimony" be thrown out on the grounds that one cannot be required to testify against oneself? Even if allowed, since Vulcans cant read Cardassians and Ferengi among others, I'd challenge the ruling on the grounds that it violates the right to equal protection under the law. Yeah, Vulcan courts are loads of fun, I'll bet. Imagine a courtroom where both sides are logical, and incapable of lieing? Whoa! -- Who was that masked man?

2000-06-12 00:00:00 - Vulcan judges (Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person) - (Laura Goodwin <lalaura@altavista.net>)


Mark McComb wrote: > I wonder if any judges are Vulcan. It would certainly speed up trials: > Judge doing a mind meld with the accused: "Yep, he's guilty. And he also wet > his pants in the first grade!" ROFLMAO!

2000-06-12 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person - (Mark McComb <mmccomb@ford.com>)


It was rather nice of the killers to put the gravity boots in the locker of someone who couldn't possibly have worn them. Imagine if some innocent was accused and put on trial. I wonder if any judges are Vulcan. It would certainly speed up trials: Judge doing a mind meld with the accused: "Yep, he's guilty. And he also wet his pants in the first grade!" Laura Goodwin <lalaura@altavista.net> wrote in message news:394123AE.8A051DC5@altavista.net... > Timo S Saloniemi wrote: > > > >In Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, a cloaked Klingon ship fires > > >at Chancellor Gorkon's ship from just beneath the Enterprise. Then two > > >Enterprise crewmen board Gorkon's ship with gravity boots and kill > > >Gorkon. Later, a gravity boot is found in the locker of another crew > > >person, but the camera shows the crew person's bare, webbed, feet, which > > >wouldn't have fit into the gravity boot. Why is a crew person running > > >around barefooted? > > > > With feet like that, what kind of shoes could the character > > theoretically have? Some sort of sandals, or perhaps very wide > > "boots" with lots of extra seams - the guy certainly couldn't insert > > his foot through a boot neck that was as narrow as his ankle, the > > way we humans do. > > Oh, come on you guys. A true webbed foot would be like a waterfowl's: > delicate, collapsible and flexible. Maybe that person couldn't wear > standard issue boots, but they certainly could have tailored footwear, > and I have no doubt they'd be able to put their pants on. They would > have a zipper or something in the ankle seam if need be. This is not a > big deal. > > He might have been barefoot because he'd been unceremoniously roused > from bed of bath. We only see that creature for a second and are told > nothing about even their immediate circumstances much lest about their > history and cultural norms. Maybe their religion requires them to > remain barefoot. Fleet would make allowances for such things. > > BTW, Just because a human in a rubber suit looks rigid and ungainly > doesn't mean the creature they are playing actually would be. That > person might in fact have delicate and flexible feet, appearances to the > contrary. > > > Laura Goodwin > http://www.cabo-one.com/lalaura/tos.html

2000-06-13 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (kemosabe@skyenet.net)


On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:47:55 -0400, Walt <Walt@Early.com> wrote: |Remember, Ensign Roe was not allowed to wear that earring even |though her culture/religion demand her to do so. | |Basically, the Federation isn't very tolerant of non-Human |(Earth) customs and beliefs. Masked Man----->Neither statement is true - Ro wore her earrings aboard the Enterprise, and made her service to Starfleet conditional upon Picard's permission to do so. Starfleet may not be very tolerant of non-human species, but the same cannot be said for the Federation. Though, I note, that just as in modern society, the WASP humanoids dominate.... -- Who was that masked man?

2000-06-13 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (Rocky Steinhaus <rocky8@8rcip.com>)


On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:47:55 -0400, Walt <Walt@Early.com> wrote: [Conventional quote order restored, no wording altered]. :-) >John Porcella wrote: >> >> The Federation had to take into account the customs and beliefs of its >> members. Therefore allowances are made for different cultures. >Well, the Federation doesn't always follow what they preach. > >Remember, Ensign Roe was not allowed to wear that earring even >though her culture/religion demand her to do so. > >Basically, the Federation isn't very tolerant of non-Human >(Earth) customs and beliefs. Picard forced Roe to follow the letter of regulations - to prove to him that she _would_ follow regulations to the letter. At the end of the episode, he let her put the earring back on (ostensibly as part of a deal). The real reason for regulation hair & jewelry, BTW, was made clear when Kira lost her earring somewhere in the station's equipment... There were various bits in TNG about regulation vs custom & belief. IIRC, Picard did say something about the crew having to follow reg's when on duty, no matter their beliefs. It comes with the job. But those were on life and death issues. Captains and Starfleet can waive the little stuff, if there's good reason. And, let's face it, shoes are for show and, sometimes, comfort. They are the least important part of a uniform. If he's more comfortable, and/or more agile without them, I would expect Starfleet, and Kirk to waive any piddly-s*** regulation that might be in the way. BTW: If I'm not mistaken, the earring originated as part of the caste system, so Picard might've had a personal distaste for that part of its history. So, with an insignificant regulation as an excuse, he could symbolically challenge her other loyalties. In any case, he was also playing a psychological game. The earring was a symbol of her other loyalty - Bajor. That loyalty was a potential for sympathy with Bajoran terrorists, and later the Maquis. (That other loyalty won in the end, but Roe was on his side, till then). Rocky -- Have a nice day. rocky@rcip.com Remove "8" (both of `em) to reply by e-mail.

2000-06-13 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - ("EvilBill[AGQx]" <evilbill25NOSPAM@freeuk.com>)


"Rocky Steinhaus" <rocky8@8rcip.com> wrote in message > > And, let's face it, shoes are for show and, sometimes, comfort. They > are the least important part of a uniform. If he's more comfortable, and/or > more agile without them, I would expect Starfleet, and Kirk to waive > any piddly-s*** regulation that might be in the way. > Apart from the fact that Jim Kirk was never one for rules and regulations anyway. -- Windows reinstalls suck! ICQ: 37464244 Remove NOSPAM from my e-mail address to reply

2000-06-13 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person - (tsalonie@alpha.hut.fi)


In article <396460a7.511000726@news.mindspring.com> kemosabe@skyenet.net (Masked Man) writes: >On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:27:03 -0400, "Mark McComb" <mmccomb@ford.com> >wrote: > >| I wonder if any judges are Vulcan. It would certainly speed up trials: >|Judge doing a mind meld with the accused: "Yep, he's guilty. And he also >|wet his pants in the first grade!" > >Masked Man------>Wouldnt this "testimony" be thrown out on the grounds >that one cannot be required to testify against oneself? Even if >allowed, since Vulcans cant read Cardassians and Ferengi among others, >I'd challenge the ruling on the grounds that it violates the right to >equal protection under the law. Then again, equal protection might have been dropped as a concept, considering that the subjects to that law aren't equal by any means. Just the *existence* of telepaths should invalidate most laws concerning privacy and the right to withhold testimony. >Yeah, Vulcan courts are loads of fun, I'll bet. Imagine a courtroom >where both sides are logical, and incapable of lieing? Whoa! "So you killed that guy?" "Sure. It was the logical thing to do." "Can't argue that. So to jail you go." "Whoa! Isn't that illogical? I only did what I had to." "You could have let him live, and suffered the consequences bravely." "Bravery is an emotional state used as an excuse for performing selfless, nonbeneficial and thus illogical acts." "A bold accusation, but essentially true. I confess to an emotional argument. To jail I go." "And I?" "Umm, wait until we change the law to a more logical form." "Can I kill his cousin too?" "Is it logical?" "Sure." "Okay, but wait until we change the law." Timo Saloniemi

2000-06-14 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (Alison Hopkins <fn62@dial.pipex.com>)


TheFlinx wrote in message <8i8vjt$th8$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>... >Ever see the English army and police? They allow Seihk(sp) members to wear >their turbans. Sikh. And yes, we do, you beat me to the point. :) Ali

2000-06-14 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person - (Pål Are Nordal <a_blip@bigfoot.com>)


Timo S Saloniemi wrote: > > Then again, equal protection might have been dropped as a concept, > considering that the subjects to that law aren't equal by any means. > Just the *existence* of telepaths should invalidate most laws concerning > privacy and the right to withhold testimony. I'm sure the Psi Corps would agree with you. -- Donate free food with a simple click: http://www.thehungersite.com/ P�l Are Nordal a_blip@bigfoot.com

2000-06-14 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com>)


On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:47:55 -0400, Walt <Walt@Early.com> wrote: >Well, the Federation doesn't always follow what they preach. > >Remember, Ensign Roe was not allowed to wear that earring even >though her culture/religion demand her to do so. > >Basically, the Federation isn't very tolerant of non-Human >(Earth) customs and beliefs. You obviously don't understand how a military or policing agency works, do you?

2000-06-15 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com>)


On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 18:14:49 -0400, "TheFlinx" <theFlinxx@yahoo.com> wrote: >Ever see the English army and police? They allow Seihk(sp) members to wear >their turbans. Now. What about 10 years ago?

2000-06-15 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (Saikat <saikat@stat.wisc.edu>)


>>>>> "Merrick" == Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com> writes: Merrick> On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 18:14:49 -0400, "TheFlinx" Merrick> <theFlinxx@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Ever see the English army and police? They allow Seihk(sp) >> members to wear their turbans. Merrick> Now. What about 10 years ago? I doubt that there are any Sikh's (they are from India) in British Army now. But the British always allowed the Sikhs to wear Turbans. Indian Army still allows the Sikh to wear turban. In any case, until first world war, most European countries had regiments made up of ethnic groups with their own peculiarities.

2000-06-15 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (TheFlinx <theFlinxx@yahoo.com>)


Saikat wrote in message ... >>>>>> "Merrick" == Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com> writes: > > Merrick> On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 18:14:49 -0400, "TheFlinx" > Merrick> <theFlinxx@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >> Ever see the English army and police? They allow Seihk(sp) > >> members to wear their turbans. > > Merrick> Now. What about 10 years ago? > >I doubt that there are any Sikh's (they are from India) in British Army now. >But the British always allowed the Sikhs to wear Turbans. Indian Army >still allows the Sikh to wear turban. In any case, until first world >war, most European countries had regiments made up of ethnic groups >with their own peculiarities. > There are quite a lot of Sikhs all over the UK including the army and the police, as a matter of fact the city of Birmingham is predominately Indian and Islanders (hence the joke "What's black and brown with white spots? - Birmingham"

2000-06-15 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (Alison Hopkins <fn62@dial.pipex.com>)


Saikat wrote in message ... >I doubt that there are any Sikh's (they are from India) in British Army now. >But the British always allowed the Sikhs to wear Turbans. Indian Army >still allows the Sikh to wear turban. In any case, until first world >war, most European countries had regiments made up of ethnic groups >with their own peculiarities. > There are Sikhs in the Armed forces, Police, Ambulance, the works. I think the only place that they had a bit of a problem was the Fire Service because of the helmets. We have a *very* significant Sikh population in the UK - they certainly aren't all "from India" these days. :) Oh, and of course we also have the Gurkha regiments. Ali

2000-06-27 00:00:00 - Re: Bare Footed Enterprise Crew Person (Star Trek VI Spoilers) - (Kent Campbell <kenton@indy.net>)


Rocky Steinhaus wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:47:55 -0400, Walt <Walt@Early.com> wrote: > >John Porcella wrote: > > > >Remember, Ensign Roe was not allowed to wear that earring even > >though her culture/religion demand her to do so. > > > >Basically, the Federation isn't very tolerant of non-Human > >(Earth) customs and beliefs. > > Picard forced Roe to follow the letter of regulations - to prove to him that > she _would_ follow regulations to the letter. At the end of the episode, he > let her put the earring back on (ostensibly as part of a deal). > > BTW: If I'm not mistaken, the earring originated as part of the caste > system, so Picard might've had a personal distaste for that part of > its history. So, with an insignificant regulation as an excuse, he > could symbolically challenge her other loyalties. > > In any case, he was also playing a psychological game. The > earring was a symbol of her other loyalty - Bajor. That loyalty was a > potential for sympathy with Bajoran terrorists, and later the Maquis. > (That other loyalty won in the end, but Roe was on his side, till then). I disagree with you here on several counts. First, Picard didn't forbid Ro (not Roe) to wear her earring; Riker did. He made her remove it in the transporter room, before he took her to meet Picard. And it was clearly intended to establish the enmity between Riker and Ro, which was developed in several later episodes. As Geordi eloquently put in to Guinan later in the episode, the prevalent feeling was that Ro didn't "belong on the Enterprise. Hell, she doesn't even belong in that uniform." She had just been released from the Starfleet stockade, where she ended up after disobeying orders and getting eight people killed on an away mission. Riker resented her (albeit temporary) posting to the Enterprise, and basically demanded that she remove the earring as an explicit warning that she would be given absolutely no slack while onboard. Picard, on the other hand, has been demonstratably more liberal in the dress code on his ship. Worf has always worn his sash, while Troi's non-standard "uniforms" were explicitly stated to be a matter of captain's prerogative, as seen when Jellico ordered Troi to wear a standard uniform in the "Chain of Command" two-parter. As for your assertion that Picard may have objected to the earring on his disagreement with Bajor's history of castes (called "D'jarras"), I doubt that he had any awareness of their historical significance -- at the time, he and Riker were even unaware that Laren was Ro's given name, not her family name. I suspect that if Ro had objected to Riker's demand to remove the earring on religious grounds, it would have warranted a review by the captain. Given the situation that Ro was in, she apparently decided to fight only the battles she needed to in order to get herself out of the stockade. The earring, while important to her, wasn't as important as not screwing up her chances of freedom. Additionally, Ro herself stated in "The Next Phase" that she never really believed in the Bajoran spirituality that she was raised under, so I assume that her desire to wear her earring has more to do with her rebellious streak than with her religious conviction. (Sidebar: for those of you who've ever played Dungeons and Dragons, I think Ro is a perfect example of Chaotic Good alignment . . . she resists authority, always stands up for the underdog, and disobeys orders when she feels she knows better, but she is guided by an almost overwhelming internal moral code.) And in case you're wondering, yes, I am a Ro fanatic. I have all eight of her episodes ("Ensign Ro", "Disaster", "Conundrum", "Power Play", "Cause and Effect", "The Next Phase", "Rascals", and "Preemptive Strike") dubbed on a single video tape, which I've watched over and over. -- Kent Campbell