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2000-02-18 00:00:00 - "Spirit Folk" - speculation - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


Okay, this episode hasn't aired yet. I realize it's perilous to speculate on an episode based on the spoilers and promotional material alone. But what the heck..... It sounds like the holographic townsfolk attain a certain sentience, and eventually come to understand something of their nature. Janeway supposedly takes her boyfriend on a tour of the ship at the end. This sort of reminds of CJ Cherryh's science fiction novel, PORT ETERNITY. It's about =azi= -- artificially created humans that don't have the rights of born humans. They are property, made to order, bought and sold. The protagonist, Elaine, is an =azi= named after the Arthurian character. Eventually, she realizes that she and all her companions were modelled on fictional characters: Lancelot, Guinevere, Mordred, etc. They were created as toys for the wealthy woman who owns the space yacht they live on. And that's what the townsfolk of Fair Haven are -- toys. I would imagine their discovering this would be very traumatic. Not to mention raise some ethical concerns for the Voyager crew. But I don't expect Voy to deal with this can of worms. Way too deep for them.... -- Arlie

2000-02-19 00:00:00 - Re: "Spirit Folk" - speculation - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> Didn't TNG already deal with some of the issues in "Ship in a Bottle"? << I dunno. I don't think I saw that episode. What happened? I do think VOY is in a better position to deal with this issue than TNG was. One of their regular characters is a hologram, who is treated the same as all the humans aboard. (Most of the time.) The descriptions of "Spirit Folk" imply that it's running the program constantly that made the holograms sentient. That would make sense...but boy, does it raise issues. -- Arlie

2000-02-19 00:00:00 - Re: "Spirit Folk" - speculation - (HouseQuake <tokelly@spammers.suck.tcac.net>)


it seems to me that some starfleet computer nerd would put some checks in place that would keep these computer programs from becoming sentient. we have seen this scenario played out on tng and ds9 and it is a bit old. i wonder if it ever occurred to tptb to do an episode where the ship's computer becomes sentient and somehow threatens the safety of the crew? you would still have the turmoil over what to do with a sentient life form without all the unnecessary crap that comes with a holo-episode. maybe i should write a script? :) hq

2000-02-19 00:00:00 - Re: "Spirit Folk" - speculation - (Tinfoil <tinfoil@bigpond.com>)


Arlie <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message news:20000218183350.22783.00000679@ng-de1.aol.com... > Okay, this episode hasn't aired yet. I realize it's perilous to speculate on > an episode based on the spoilers and promotional material alone. But what the > heck..... > > It sounds like the holographic townsfolk attain a certain sentience, and > eventually come to understand something of their nature. Janeway supposedly > takes her boyfriend on a tour of the ship at the end. > > This sort of reminds of CJ Cherryh's science fiction novel, PORT ETERNITY. > It's about =azi= -- artificially created humans that don't have the rights of > born humans. They are property, made to order, bought and sold. The > protagonist, Elaine, is an =azi= named after the Arthurian character. > Eventually, she realizes that she and all her companions were modelled on > fictional characters: Lancelot, Guinevere, Mordred, etc. They were created as > toys for the wealthy woman who owns the space yacht they live on. > > And that's what the townsfolk of Fair Haven are -- toys. I would imagine their > discovering this would be very traumatic. Not to mention raise some ethical > concerns for the Voyager crew. > > But I don't expect Voy to deal with this can of worms. Way too deep for > them.... Didn't TNG already deal with some of the issues in "Ship in a Bottle"? cheers Tinfoil

2000-02-23 00:00:00 - Re: "Spirit Folk" - speculation - (Janet Smith <djanet@mindspring.com>)


I am beginning to think "Frankenstein" should be required reading at the Academy, not to mention Colossus: The Forbin Project. "Arlie" <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message news:20000223164833.00870.00000371@ng-de1.aol.com... > >> That was one of the things they were trying to find out, but it seems to > have something to do with the fact that Data was blitzing the Sherlock > Holmes programmes, so Geordie asked the programme to come up with an > opponent "capable of defeating Data", without actually thinking what that > meant. The programme was *so* brilliant that it kept escalating itself, > taking over functions etc, before eventually becoming self-aware. > > The annoying bit in the second episode was that Moriarty had somehow > developed a "love interest" written for him who became sentient too. Given > that he was created by the computer and then immediately stored in a disc > for four years I found that a deeply unconvincing plot twist. << > > Interesting. So anyone can make a sentient holoprogram, if they want to. The > only reason we aren't overrun with 'em is people try not to make them. The > holographic equivalent of birth control? > > > -- Arlie

2000-02-23 00:00:00 - Re: "Spirit Folk" - speculation - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> That was one of the things they were trying to find out, but it seems to have something to do with the fact that Data was blitzing the Sherlock Holmes programmes, so Geordie asked the programme to come up with an opponent "capable of defeating Data", without actually thinking what that meant. The programme was *so* brilliant that it kept escalating itself, taking over functions etc, before eventually becoming self-aware. The annoying bit in the second episode was that Moriarty had somehow developed a "love interest" written for him who became sentient too. Given that he was created by the computer and then immediately stored in a disc for four years I found that a deeply unconvincing plot twist. << Interesting. So anyone can make a sentient holoprogram, if they want to. The only reason we aren't overrun with 'em is people try not to make them. The holographic equivalent of birth control? -- Arlie

2000-02-23 00:00:00 - Re: "Spirit Folk" - speculation - ("Mike. H." <mhantz@micron.net>)


"Arlie" <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message news:20000223065757.01263.00000262@ng-xe1.aol.com... > >> Arlie, sorry if it looked like I was ignoring your post, it hasn't come > through on my server. << > > S'okay -- that's Usenet! > > >> "Ship in a Bottle" is where Barclay discovers the Prof Moriarty hologram, > locked in a disc for 4 years since the episode "Elementary Dear Data", where > the computer creates him to defeat Data's Sherlock Holmes, and he turns out > to be sentient. Lots of issues about his rights and responsibilities, and a > few nice plot twists! << > > Interesting. Did they give any indication of *why* he became sentient, and not > other holocharacters? Didn't it have something to do with his super intelligence, brought about by Geordi asking the computer to design a character smart enough to defeat Data (as opposed to Sherlock Holmes)?

2000-02-23 00:00:00 - Re: "Spirit Folk" - speculation - (Tinfoil <tinfoil@bigpond.com>)


Arlie, sorry if it looked like I was ignoring your post, it hasn't come through on my server. "Ship in a Bottle" is where Barclay discovers the Prof Moriarty hologram, locked in a disc for 4 years since the episode "Elementary Dear Data", where the computer creates him to defeat Data's Sherlock Holmes, and he turns out to be sentient. Lots of issues about his rights and responsibilities, and a few nice plot twists! T/f lurker@home <bluesbird@crosswinds.net> wrote in message news:RgJs4.2210$rY6.27434@typhoon.socal.rr.com... > > Arlie wrote in message <20000219073543.22798.00000758@ng-de1.aol.com>... > >>> Didn't TNG already deal with some of the issues in "Ship in a Bottle"? > << > > > >I dunno. I don't think I saw that episode. What happened? > > > >I do think VOY is in a better position to deal with this issue than TNG > was. > >One of their regular characters is a hologram, who is treated the same as > all > >the humans aboard. (Most of the time.) > > > >The descriptions of "Spirit Folk" imply that it's running the program > >constantly that made the holograms sentient. That would make sense...but > boy, > >does it raise issues. > > > > > And would that make Whisker Boy retarded, since Janeway messed with him and > presumably slowed down his development? > >

2000-02-23 00:00:00 - Re: "Spirit Folk" - speculation - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> Arlie, sorry if it looked like I was ignoring your post, it hasn't come through on my server. << S'okay -- that's Usenet! >> "Ship in a Bottle" is where Barclay discovers the Prof Moriarty hologram, locked in a disc for 4 years since the episode "Elementary Dear Data", where the computer creates him to defeat Data's Sherlock Holmes, and he turns out to be sentient. Lots of issues about his rights and responsibilities, and a few nice plot twists! << Interesting. Did they give any indication of *why* he became sentient, and not other holocharacters? -- Arlie

2000-02-23 00:00:00 - Re: "Spirit Folk" - speculation - ("lurker@home" <bluesbird@crosswinds.net>)


Arlie wrote in message <20000219073543.22798.00000758@ng-de1.aol.com>... >>> Didn't TNG already deal with some of the issues in "Ship in a Bottle"? << > >I dunno. I don't think I saw that episode. What happened? > >I do think VOY is in a better position to deal with this issue than TNG was. >One of their regular characters is a hologram, who is treated the same as all >the humans aboard. (Most of the time.) > >The descriptions of "Spirit Folk" imply that it's running the program >constantly that made the holograms sentient. That would make sense...but boy, >does it raise issues. > And would that make Whisker Boy retarded, since Janeway messed with him and presumably slowed down his development?

2000-02-24 00:00:00 - Re: "Spirit Folk" - speculation - (Tinfoil <tinfoil@bigpond.com>)


Arlie <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message news:20000223065757.01263.00000262@ng-xe1.aol.com... > >> Arlie, sorry if it looked like I was ignoring your post, it hasn't come > through on my server. << > > S'okay -- that's Usenet! > > >> "Ship in a Bottle" is where Barclay discovers the Prof Moriarty hologram, > locked in a disc for 4 years since the episode "Elementary Dear Data", where > the computer creates him to defeat Data's Sherlock Holmes, and he turns out > to be sentient. Lots of issues about his rights and responsibilities, and a > few nice plot twists! << > > Interesting. Did they give any indication of *why* he became sentient, and not > other holocharacters? That was one of the things they were trying to find out, but it seems to have something to do with the fact that Data was blitzing the Sherlock Holmes programmes, so Geordie asked the programme to come up with an opponent "capable of defeating Data", without actually thinking what that meant. The programme was *so* brilliant that it kept escalating itself, taking over functions etc, before eventually becoming self-aware. The annoying bit in the second episode was that Moriarty had somehow developed a "love interest" written for him who became sentient too. Given that he was created by the computer and then immediately stored in a disc for four years I found that a deeply unconvincing plot twist. cheers Tinfoil

2000-02-24 00:00:00 - Re: "Spirit Folk" - speculation - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> I am beginning to think "Frankenstein" should be required reading at the Academy, not to mention Colossus: The Forbin Project. << I'm waiting for "The Bride of Holodoc"! -- Arlie