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2000-02-25 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


I hated "Spirit Folk," and have been vocal about it, I admit. However, I rather liked "Tsunkatse," which you say "blew." As for what I want...well, I liked "Caretaker," "Emanations," "Non Sequitur," "Twisted," "Meld," "Dreadnaught," "Innocence," "The Thaw," "The Chute," "Message In a Bottle," "Killing Game," "Drone," "Timeless," "Warhead," "Survival Instinct," "Riddles," "Pathfinder," and "Memorial." I wouldn't mind more like them. I watch Voyager because I like the characters. I want to see them when I tune in. *All* of them, not just Seven of Nine. And I want to see them portrayed as decent, intelligent, likable people. "Spirit Folk" spent far too much time on the boring townsfolk. I don't care about them. I don't know them, and I don't want to know them. They were written as idiots. And not very nice ones, either. I did enjoy some of the scenes with the Voyager crew, but they, too, weren't depicted in a very kindly light here. Tom was a juvenile jerk. Harry was wasting his replicator rations on a date with a blowup doll. Janeway came across as pathetic, self-centered, and just plain dumb. B'Elanna was humorless stick in the mud. I liked the Paris and Kim scenes...but it seems these days they're always comic relief. We don't get serious stuff for them like we used in earlier seasons ("Ex Post Facto," "The Chute"). I might have liked "Spirit Folk," if all the characters weren't written like idiots. And if the scenes with the townsfolk had been fewer and faster-paced. But as it is..."Alice" was better. -- Arlie

2000-02-25 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Ty <tironic@hotmail.com>)


Why Jeff you're a breath of fresh air. Most of the people in this newsgoup are whiny, anal-retentive nerds who can't relax, sit back, and enjoy a show for what it's worth. They watch each episode with a magnifying glass trying to find supposed mistakes... "Look! Tom Paris is taking a leak with his left hand, when everyone knows he's a righty! I hope someone got fired for that one." Then they run to their computers and write little insignificant "reviews," which is an attempt to make themselves look important to all the other anal-retentive nerds. I like the show for what it is (a nice *fictional* series), and force myself to occasioanally come to the newsgroup (because every now and then you can read a post that isn't full of sarcastic discontent). Yo, Jeff, high-five! Just enjoy the show and don't concern yourself with what these guys think. Maybe every now and then you and I can exchange some *pleasent* posts while ducking down from the crossfire of all the pocket protectors and retainers flying around :) Later, --Ty

2000-02-25 00:00:00 - Maybe it's just me... - (Jeff Casale <jcasale@isisgold.com>)


I've been lurking on this group for quite a while, and have realized that most of the people that post here are intelligent, and know their Star Trek. What I can not figure out is why I seem to enjoy most of the episodes put out, while everybody here rips them apart. For instance I thought this week's episode(Spirit Folk) was GREAT! That's right, great, and no, I'm not being sarcastic. In fact with the exception of a few episodes (yes, I'll admit it, the Rock episode blew), I think most of the episodes this season have been quite enjoyable. Maybe its because I'm not the traditional Star Trek fan in the sense that I never was really able to enjoy the original series as much as most folks. I am, however, a big fan of the other three series, and have been for many years. So, I guess my question is, what would all of you like to see? By that, I mean if you were in charge of coming up with the plot for an episode what would it be? I ask this because it seems to me that whatever the writers try to do get ripped to shreads in this NG. I look forward to reading your responses. -Jeff

2000-02-25 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Nobody <someone@microsoft.com>)


I agree I just cant seem to enjoy the origional series. I really enjoy TNG, DS9 and most of all Voyager but i dont tear the eppisodes apart, i just enjoy them (most of them) for what they are -- -- - Jeff Casale <jcasale@isisgold.com> wrote in message news:896tse$23a24$1@fu-berlin.de... > I've been lurking on this group for quite a while, and have realized that > most of the people that post here are intelligent, and know their Star Trek. > What I can not figure out is why I seem to enjoy most of the episodes put > out, while everybody here rips them apart. For instance I thought this > week's episode(Spirit Folk) was GREAT! That's right, great, and no, I'm not > being sarcastic. > > In fact with the exception of a few episodes (yes, I'll admit it, the Rock > episode blew), I think most of the episodes this season have been quite > enjoyable. Maybe its because I'm not the traditional Star Trek fan in the > sense that I never was really able to enjoy the original series as much as > most folks. I am, however, a big fan of the other three series, and have > been for many years. > > So, I guess my question is, what would all of you like to see? By that, I > mean if you were in charge of coming up with the plot for an episode what > would it be? I ask this because it seems to me that whatever the writers > try to do get ripped to shreads in this NG. I look forward to reading your > responses. > > -Jeff > > > > >

2000-02-25 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Michele <belanna@uswest.net>)


I did like some of most of the episode. I would like to see more romance on there especially between tom and B'elanna. Jeff Casale wrote: > > I've been lurking on this group for quite a while, and have realized that > most of the people that post here are intelligent, and know their Star Trek. > What I can not figure out is why I seem to enjoy most of the episodes put > out, while everybody here rips them apart. For instance I thought this > week's episode(Spirit Folk) was GREAT! That's right, great, and no, I'm not > being sarcastic. > > In fact with the exception of a few episodes (yes, I'll admit it, the Rock > episode blew), I think most of the episodes this season have been quite > enjoyable. Maybe its because I'm not the traditional Star Trek fan in the > sense that I never was really able to enjoy the original series as much as > most folks. I am, however, a big fan of the other three series, and have > been for many years. > > So, I guess my question is, what would all of you like to see? By that, I > mean if you were in charge of coming up with the plot for an episode what > would it be? I ask this because it seems to me that whatever the writers > try to do get ripped to shreads in this NG. I look forward to reading your > responses. > > -Jeff

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"lurker@home" <bluesbird@crosswinds.net> wrote in message news:3HRt4.3135$rY6.33717@typhoon.socal.rr.com... > > Lisa wrote in message ... > > > > I am a fan of RB, but I take no umbrage at > >all to the people who dislike him, that's their opinion and they're > >entitled to it. > > So am I, although I rag on him mercilessly..... I do it because I think he's > being wasted, and some of the ways he's being wasted are just comical. If > you go back and look at the Chakotay character in the early eps compared to > what you see now, it's just glaring! > > It surely is! I do think they have redeemed him slightly in this season though, they seem to be taking him away from Janeway and putting him with the others more which he seems to be enjoying. He really is an excellent actor who is just not appreciated here by the producers or the viewers. Doreen has sent me a tape of some of his stuff and even though I am already a fan I have been very impressed with what I have seen so far. -- Lisa "When I'm feeling weak And my pain walks down a one way street I look above And I know I'll always be blessed with love"

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - ("EvilBill[AGQx]" <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk>)


"Lisa" <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message news:kDRt4.4690$243.137543@news3.cableinet.net... > > No, never been a lover of TOS at all, far too hammy acting for me. DS9 was > my big love, but TNG and Voy both have a place in my heart too. > DS9 is my favourite too :) I do have a soft spot for TOS though... it laid the groundwork... and if it wasn't for TOS, none of the others would have existed ;-) -- Sisko: "Do you really want to give up your life for the order of things?" Remata'Klan: "It is not my life to give up, Captain, and it never was." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/; ICQ number: 37464244 Remove KILL-THE-SPAM from my email address to respond. Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (<>)


>I've been lurking on this group for quite a while Me too. Welcome to delurkerdom! >What I can not figure out is why I seem to enjoy most of the episodes put >out, while everybody here rips them apart. Interests vary. There are some eps that are personal favs of mine while others wish they had never been written and vice versa. Voyager had a lot of potential in the beginning to be really different, kind of edgy-Trek and it never really happened. Lurker, Lisa, Bozo, Tech and Michele have summed it all up better than I could, so I'll just refer to them and say, 'Exactly.' Not the most profound thing, but I don't think I could add anymore to it. Except, the shuttle thing. That was where I first got the inkling that the writers and/or the producers weren't going to go much in for continuity. How many of those dang things have they lost by now? It might be seen as anal, but sometimes I just find it hard to get into a stroy when they actually have a character say after losing umpteen of them, 'We have a full complement of shuttles right now!' I just wish TBTB would show more concern and thought with the product they are airing. Welcome, Jeff! Thena

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (phyphor@rocketmail.com)


On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:50:35 -0500, "Jeff Casale" <jcasale@isisgold.com> wrote: >I've been lurking on this group for quite a while, and have realized that >most of the people that post here are intelligent, and know their Star Trek. >What I can not figure out is why I seem to enjoy most of the episodes put >out, while everybody here rips them apart. Because everyone has their own likes and dislikes. >For instance I thought this >week's episode(Spirit Folk) was GREAT! That's right, great, and no, I'm not >being sarcastic. > >In fact with the exception of a few episodes (yes, I'll admit it, the Rock >episode blew), I think most of the episodes this season have been quite >enjoyable. Maybe its because I'm not the traditional Star Trek fan in the >sense that I never was really able to enjoy the original series as much as >most folks. I am, however, a big fan of the other three series, and have >been for many years. > >So, I guess my question is, what would all of you like to see? By that, I >mean if you were in charge of coming up with the plot for an episode what >would it be? I ask this because it seems to me that whatever the writers >try to do get ripped to shreads in this NG. I look forward to reading your >responses. Hmm, some eps with a little more thought to them.. -LMB > >-Jeff > > > > >

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Silverhawk <analog-kid@eidosnet.co.uk>)


>Or just check out "Survival Instinct" or "Memorial" or "Latent >Image" or "Living Witness" or "Timeless," for examples of what I >personally would like to see. Am I the only one that thinks Survival Instinct was nothing more than just an average ep? Out of the three season 6 eps I've seen so far, I'd rank it third. Silverhawk -- "Paranoia's the only thing that's kept me alive this long, hon'. You'd better learn to think the same, otherwise BANG... you'll be out the game."

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Louis M. Brown" <phyphor@rocketmail.com> wrote in message news:38b796fe.6730917@news.earthlink.net... > On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:50:35 -0500, "Jeff Casale" > <jcasale@isisgold.com> wrote: > > >I've been lurking on this group for quite a while, and have realized that > >most of the people that post here are intelligent, and know their Star Trek. > >What I can not figure out is why I seem to enjoy most of the episodes put > >out, while everybody here rips them apart. > > Because everyone has their own likes and dislikes. very profound Louis <g> -- Lisa "When I'm feeling weak And my pain walks down a one way street I look above And I know I'll always be blessed with love"

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


<mayx@home.com> wrote in message news:38b70e65.2638696@news... > > >So, I guess my question is, what would all of you like to see? By that, I > >mean if you were in charge of coming up with the plot for an episode what > >would it be? I ask this because it seems to me that whatever the writers > >try to do get ripped to shreads in this NG. I look forward to reading your > >responses. > > > > The majority of the people on this newsgroup are cyincal unhappy > trekers. They don't just enjoy a FREE tv series. They hate > EVERYTHING...they have to or they wouldn't have anything to talk > about. The way they talk about the series I wouldn't be supprised if > they had a pen and paper in there lap when they watch it...to write > down all the things they hate. > > there are those of us in the NG that do enjoy the show. We don't talk > up very often becuase the majoity's bigitory. Well hush my mouth! > > I'm not saying that voyager dosn't make a bad eps, once or twice a > season (I mean this show isn't DS9). I hated a few eps. Tattoo for > one, and I kinda thought Living Witness was boring. > > I do respect the Majortys thoughts on the series, BUT sometimes I > think they look for stuff to complain about. That makes them > Psudo-Trolls. So when is it not possible to voice an opinion here? We all have different opinions and I have *never* felt unable to express it or that I would be flamed for having that opinion. I am a fan of RB, but I take no umbrage at all to the people who dislike him, that's their opinion and they're entitled to it. The one main thing we do all agree on is that the show disapoints us to a degree because we all know how much better it could be and that the potential that is there week after week is never utilised, that ocasionally we get glimpses of what it could be like only to then have to watch Fair Haven etc.. which demeans the show, the actors and the name of Trek. -- Lisa "When I'm feeling weak And my pain walks down a one way street I look above And I know I'll always be blessed with love"

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"lurker@home" <bluesbird@crosswinds.net> wrote in message news:6UFt4.2929$rY6.32065@typhoon.socal.rr.com... > > Jeff Casale wrote in message <896tse$23a24$1@fu-berlin.de>... > >I've been lurking on this group for quite a while, and have realized that > >most of the people that post here are intelligent, > > Aren't they though! I too was amazed, even though I had expected them to be > pretty high-level folks. I just wasn't ready for HOW high....... *note to self - stop reading Lurker posts with a cup of tea in hand*. -- Lisa "When I'm feeling weak And my pain walks down a one way street I look above And I know I'll always be blessed with love"

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Jeff Casale" <jcasale@isisgold.com> wrote in message news:896tse$23a24$1@fu-berlin.de... > I've been lurking on this group for quite a while, and have realized that > most of the people that post here are intelligent, What a perceptive comment, you will certainly fit in well here<g> >and know their Star Trek. > What I can not figure out is why I seem to enjoy most of the episodes put > out, while everybody here rips them apart. For instance I thought this > week's episode(Spirit Folk) was GREAT! That's right, great, and no, I'm not > being sarcastic. > > In fact with the exception of a few episodes (yes, I'll admit it, the Rock > episode blew), I think most of the episodes this season have been quite > enjoyable. Maybe its because I'm not the traditional Star Trek fan in the > sense that I never was really able to enjoy the original series as much as > most folks. I am, however, a big fan of the other three series, and have > been for many years. No, never been a lover of TOS at all, far too hammy acting for me. DS9 was my big love, but TNG and Voy both have a place in my heart too. > > So, I guess my question is, what would all of you like to see? By that, I > mean if you were in charge of coming up with the plot for an episode what > would it be? I ask this because it seems to me that whatever the writers > try to do get ripped to shreads in this NG. I look forward to reading your > responses. You mentioned the word "try" and the whole point is that we don't think that they do try, certainly not very hard anyway. I want to see decent characters that relate to each other in a realistic way. These people have been stuck together for nearly 7 years and yet they never seem to get fed up of each other, they never fall out, apart from B'Elana and Tom which is another point entirely<g>, and what affects them one week is then completely forgotten the next week. We had so many glimpses of J/C maybe getting together only to then be completely dismissed later, we have B'Elana and Tom who have been together for a few years, yet still seem to be completely unable to talk to each other about anything of importance. We have Tuvok completely ignored and abandoned, the Perpetual Ensign who apparently is in the command structure yet cant get a promotion, a child whose mother disappeared years ago and no one noticed etc..... the list is endless! Yet these things take very little work on the writers part, but are constantly ignored. I've found this season to really be just average, a few really bad, Virtuoso, Fair Haven and a few really good Memorial, Blink, Tinker Tenor and for the most part enjoyable if you dont look too deep. Carry on posting now, no slipping back into Lurkerdom<g> -- Lisa "When I'm feeling weak And my pain walks down a one way street I look above And I know I'll always be blessed with love"

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - ("lurker@home" <bluesbird@crosswinds.net>)


Lisa wrote in message ... > > I am a fan of RB, but I take no umbrage at >all to the people who dislike him, that's their opinion and they're >entitled to it. So am I, although I rag on him mercilessly..... I do it because I think he's being wasted, and some of the ways he's being wasted are just comical. If you go back and look at the Chakotay character in the early eps compared to what you see now, it's just glaring!

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Michele <belanna@uswest.net>)


Jeff Casale wrote: > > I've been lurking on this group for quite a while, and have realized that > most of the people that post here are intelligent, and know their Star Trek. > What I can not figure out is why I seem to enjoy most of the episodes put > out, while everybody here rips them apart. For instance I thought this > week's episode(Spirit Folk) was GREAT! That's right, great, and no, I'm not > being sarcastic. Hi welcome to our merry group. Becareful when drinking at the computer and reading this board. ( have heard stories of tea or water on computers ). Thank you for the intelligent comment and I would have to agree on that one. I always like the episodes. Even though season 4 when it was the seven show it annoyed me. It felt like they shoved her down our throats. I like all the episodes, and I am in the process of taping all the episodes ( please no one ask me about giving them tapes. I know you won't but just in case someone does ) > > In fact with the exception of a few episodes (yes, I'll admit it, the Rock > episode blew), I think most of the episodes this season have been quite > enjoyable. Maybe its because I'm not the traditional Star Trek fan in the > sense that I never was really able to enjoy the original series as much as > most folks. I am, however, a big fan of the other three series, and have > been for many years. Like I said there are a few episodes I haven't like. I didn't care for the rock episode that much. ( thinking I could tape over it but i might forget and tape over a episode I like ). I never got into the TOS, and it wasn't on reruns long enough on tv here where I am at. I didn't care for it. I got hooked on star trek with TNG. dS9 was ok until the last two years when it was all about war. I never could get into it as I do with TNG and Voyager. Voyager is one of my all time favorite. > > So, I guess my question is, what would all of you like to see? By that, I > mean if you were in charge of coming up with the plot for an episode what > would it be? I ask this because it seems to me that whatever the writers > try to do get ripped to shreads in this NG. I look forward to reading your > responses. from reading lucker's and Lisa comments I would go with what they say. I would also want to see more interaction out side of work. Especially with b'elanna and tom. > > -Jeff

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (jupiturgrl@aol.comAndGetMe)


lurkey@home wrote: >That's one thing I'm also vocal on (sorry regs, Lurker's dragging out his >soap box.....)...... > >I want to see them running on the edge of disaster, with true hardship and >deprivation, the ship carrying damage that can't be repaired with a wave of >the hand, see 'em living by their wits and barely surviving in a hostile >universe.....I want to see the crew actually dealing with problems, not just >talking about them. When there's a hull breach on Deck Seven, I want to see >the poor bastards down there trying to get it sealed up amid the wreckage, >with all their air whooshing out through the hole.....In other words, >realistic action, not descriptive talk about it on the bridge. That's the >kind of stuff that Lurker wants to see. Did anyone else read that in a Bob Dole voice? :P Anyway, I knew something was sorta missing, but I didn't know what it was until you just said it, lurkey.. So, I agree with all that. .-~*Jup *As I was saying, I'm a woman, and can't be taken for granted.. Life's a bitch; Now so am I.* -Catwoman, "Batman Returns"

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (evilklowwn@aol.comedy)


Jeff Casale doth write thus: >I've been lurking on this group for quite a while, and have realized that >most of the people that post here are intelligent, and know their Star Trek. >What I can not figure out is why I seem to enjoy most of the episodes put >out, while everybody here rips them apart. Card-carrying cynic that I am, I also enjoy most Vger episodes, too. I will wax sarcastic in reviewing them, and can see nits in even the best eps. Even grading Vger on a curve, though, too often TPTB will inflict a truly awful travesty on us, and as such it's reflected in the various reviews posted here. >For instance I thought this >week's episode(Spirit Folk) was GREAT! That's right, great, and no, I'm not >being sarcastic. Sometimes I'll really like an ep that most regulars think blew chunks, and sometimes I'll savage an ep that almost everyone thought was great.... if it wasn't so late I'd make up a suitable treknobabble Universal Conservation Law to explain that. <G> >In fact with the exception of a few episodes (yes, I'll admit it, the Rock >episode blew), I think most of the episodes this season have been quite >enjoyable. Good example; I thought "Tsunkatse" wasn't bad by Vger standards. No doubt the Rock was used in a ratings stunt- but he played his part convincingly, which was all we could ask of him. > Maybe its because I'm not the traditional Star Trek fan in the >sense that I never was really able to enjoy the original series as much as >most folks. I am, however, a big fan of the other three series, and have >been for many years. You only need to like one series to be a Trek fan.... for over half my life, TOS was the only Trek around, but I've enjoyed all the series- including Vger. BUT..... while I watched the others avidly, my interest in Vger was never anywhere near as intense. I felt disappointed, as Vger's pilot was easily the best of the latter-day Trek pilots. They have a potentially dynamite premise, and a lot of on-screen talent besides Picardo and Ryan..... and they waste 95% of their potential. >So, I guess my question is, what would all of you like to see? By that, I >mean if you were in charge of coming up with the plot for an episode what >would it be? I ask this because it seems to me that whatever the writers >try to do get ripped to shreads in this NG. I look forward to reading your >responses. As long as they're paying the rest of the cast, they might as well use them. TPTB cop out by claiming that aside from Seven and the Doctor, the characters are boring- well, then, *don't* write them as boring characters then!!! The trapped-in-the-Delta-Quadrant bit is simply pointless; the ship gets trashed in one ep and next week it's pristine and new again. Aside from the occasional hand-wringing over being far from home, there's simply nothing in the show that SHOWS them being far from home, being away from proper Starfleet maintenance docks for years, or being under any kind of privation at all..... almost any ep on Vger could have been done on TNG- if they had been desperate enough back then. Their willful disregard for continuity with previous episodes (and even previous scenes in the *same* ep!!!) make it hard to suspend disbelief and "get into" the story. If B'Elanna reports a problem with the antimatter containment, and we don't know if this week Voyager is powered by antimatter, or deuterium, or five iso-tons of potatoes with electrodes stuck in them, then we don't know if this is supposed to be any kind of serious problem. And since we don't know, we don't care. I would like to see *real* stories, with a real conflict/resolution scenario. When they "solve" their problem by simply standing around the warp core tossing treknobabble back and forth, and doing pretty CGI with the deflector dish, I get a strong sense that the writer simply reached the end of Act V and decided to just end it there. Or just check out "Survival Instinct" or "Memorial" or "Latent Image" or "Living Witness" or "Timeless," for examples of what I personally would like to see. He-Who-Reserves-The-Right-To-Use-Sarcasm-Even-When-Overall-I-Liked-The-Ep "All of our Gods are currently busy with other believers; please hold, your salvation is important to Us. If you are praying for personal gain, pray '1' now....."

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (evilklowwn@aol.comedy)


Ty doth write thus: >Why Jeff you're a breath of fresh air. Most of the people in this newsgoup >are whiny, anal-retentive nerds who can't relax, sit back, and enjoy a show >for what it's worth. Wrong; we simply wish it was worth more- and with all the talent they're wasting, it *should* be. Free clue, Ty: Jeff understands how to disagree WITHOUT personally insulting those he disagrees with; therefore, Jeff will be treated like a mature adult. >They watch each episode with a magnifying glass trying >to find supposed mistakes... "Look! Tom Paris is taking a leak with his left >hand, when everyone knows he's a righty! I hope someone got fired for that >one." Wong *again.* It's more like "Look! Janeway is endangering her crew's lives for a really *stupid* reason AGAIN!! I hope nobody was hurt in the stampede to the escape pods!!" >Then they run to their computers and write little insignificant >"reviews," which is an attempt to make themselves look important to all the >other anal-retentive nerds. Well, if they're important enough for a whiny crybaby to complain about, we must be doing something right. <EG> >I like the show for what it is (a nice >*fictional* series), and force myself to occasioanally come to the newsgroup >(because every now and then you can read a post that isn't full of sarcastic >discontent). Please don't feel like there's ANY "need" for you to force yourself here..... we don't. >Yo, Jeff, high-five! Just enjoy the show and don't concern yourself with >what these guys think. Maybe every now and then you and I can exchange some >*pleasent* posts while ducking down from the crossfire of all the pocket >protectors and retainers flying around :) > >Later, >--Ty

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (mayx@home.com)


>So, I guess my question is, what would all of you like to see? By that, I >mean if you were in charge of coming up with the plot for an episode what >would it be? I ask this because it seems to me that whatever the writers >try to do get ripped to shreads in this NG. I look forward to reading your >responses. > The majority of the people on this newsgroup are cyincal unhappy trekers. They don't just enjoy a FREE tv series. They hate EVERYTHING...they have to or they wouldn't have anything to talk about. The way they talk about the series I wouldn't be supprised if they had a pen and paper in there lap when they watch it...to write down all the things they hate. there are those of us in the NG that do enjoy the show. We don't talk up very often becuase the majoity's bigitory. I'm not saying that voyager dosn't make a bad eps, once or twice a season (I mean this show isn't DS9). I hated a few eps. Tattoo for one, and I kinda thought Living Witness was boring. I do respect the Majortys thoughts on the series, BUT sometimes I think they look for stuff to complain about. That makes them Psudo-Trolls. Eric

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - ("lurker@home" <bluesbird@crosswinds.net>)


Jeff Casale wrote in message <896tse$23a24$1@fu-berlin.de>... >I've been lurking on this group for quite a while, and have realized that >most of the people that post here are intelligent, Aren't they though! I too was amazed, even though I had expected them to be pretty high-level folks. I just wasn't ready for HOW high........ >and know their Star Trek. >What I can not figure out is why I seem to enjoy most of the episodes put >out, while everybody here rips them apart. For instance I thought this >week's episode(Spirit Folk) was GREAT! That's right, great, and no, I'm not >being sarcastic. As (one of) the resident wiseguy(s), I merrily take part in the episode bashing -- but like you I enjoy each and every ep. Heck, I even enjoyed the salamander outing....but I know the series could be even better than it is, and I think I've figured out the source of some of the shortfall. Soooooooo........ WHACK-WHACK-WHACK!!!! -- but every Wednesday I'm a basket case in front of the TV....... > >In fact with the exception of a few episodes (yes, I'll admit it, the Rock >episode blew), I think most of the episodes this season have been quite >enjoyable. Maybe its because I'm not the traditional Star Trek fan in the >sense that I never was really able to enjoy the original series as much as >most folks. I am, however, a big fan of the other three series, and have >been for many years. TNG was 'way too PC-nicey-nice for me. I drifted away then and never caught on to DS9's long story arcs. I became a fan again on the day I heard they were planning something called Voyager, and found out what it would be. > >So, I guess my question is, what would all of you like to see? By that, I >mean if you were in charge of coming up with the plot for an episode what >would it be? I ask this because it seems to me that whatever the writers >try to do get ripped to shreads in this NG. I look forward to reading your >responses. That's one thing I'm also vocal on (sorry regs, Lurker's dragging out his soap box.....)...... I want to see them running on the edge of disaster, with true hardship and deprivation, the ship carrying damage that can't be repaired with a wave of the hand, see 'em living by their wits and barely surviving in a hostile universe.....I want to see the crew actually dealing with problems, not just talking about them. When there's a hull breach on Deck Seven, I want to see the poor bastards down there trying to get it sealed up amid the wreckage, with all their air whooshing out through the hole.....In other words, realistic action, not descriptive talk about it on the bridge. That's the kind of stuff that Lurker wants to see.

2000-02-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - ("lurker@home" <bluesbird@crosswinds.net>)


mayx@home.com wrote in message <38b70e65.2638696@news>... > >>So, I guess my question is, what would all of you like to see? By that, I >>mean if you were in charge of coming up with the plot for an episode what >>would it be? I ask this because it seems to me that whatever the writers >>try to do get ripped to shreads in this NG. I look forward to reading your >>responses. >> > >The majority of the people on this newsgroup are cyincal unhappy >trekers. They don't just enjoy a FREE tv series. They hate >EVERYTHING...they have to or they wouldn't have anything to talk >about. The way they talk about the series I wouldn't be supprised if >they had a pen and paper in there lap when they watch it...to write >down all the things they hate. > >there are those of us in the NG that do enjoy the show. We don't talk >up very often becuase the majoity's bigitory. > >I'm not saying that voyager dosn't make a bad eps, once or twice a >season (I mean this show isn't DS9). I hated a few eps. Tattoo for >one, and I kinda thought Living Witness was boring. > >I do respect the Majortys thoughts on the series, BUT sometimes I >think they look for stuff to complain about. That makes them >Psudo-Trolls. > o00o0o0oo0oo0o! Some of us do, but not -most- of us....... It can look that way sometimes because it's easy to get into ragging contests on certain shows and topics, but everybody here is a rabid fan and loves the show. Another item that can make it look like we're malcontents is that these folks are pretty sophisticated, and they see lots of ways in which the series falls short of its potential.

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>> Am I the only one that thinks Survival Instinct was nothing more than > just an average ep? Out of the three season 6 eps I've seen so far, > I'd rank it third. For me, it wasn't so much the episode as a whole that I enjoyed ... it was a lot of the character moments that VOY should've had years ago shich Moore managed to sneak in there. << I agree. The main Borg story was okay, but what I really liked was Janeway getting attacked by the prehensile plant and rescued by Chakotay, Paris and Kim in trouble again, etc. -- Arlie

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - ("EvilBill[AGQx]" <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk>)


"Zabana Brandon" <zabana@collegetoday.com> wrote in message... > Bozo the Great and Wise wroteded: > > > five iso-tons of potatoes with electrodes stuck in them ... > > "Best possible spud, Mister Paris." - Capt. Janeway > LOL! :) -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/; ICQ number: 37464244 Remove KILL-THE-SPAM from my email address to respond. Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - ("lurker@home" <bluesbird@crosswinds.net>)


Athena7843 wrote in message <20000226145827.19370.00001551@ng-cj1.aol.com>... >>I've been lurking on this group for quite a while > >Me too. Welcome to delurkerdom! > >>What I can not figure out is why I seem to enjoy most of the episodes put >>out, while everybody here rips them apart. > >Interests vary. There are some eps that are personal favs of mine while others >wish they had never been written and vice versa. Voyager had a lot of potential >in the beginning to be really different, kind of edgy-Trek and it never really >happened. Lurker, Lisa, Bozo, Tech and Michele have summed it all up better >than I could, so I'll just refer to them and say, 'Exactly.' Not the most >profound thing, but I don't think I could add anymore to it. Except, the >shuttle thing. That was where I first got the inkling that the writers and/or >the producers weren't going to go much in for continuity. How many of those >dang things have they lost by now? It might be seen as anal, but sometimes I >just find it hard to get into a stroy when they actually have a character say >after losing umpteen of them, 'We have a full complement of shuttles right >now!' I just wish TBTB would show more concern and thought with the product >they are airing. > You just gave me a connection.......... One of the main reasons that the early Star Wars movies worked was that a lot of their stuff was old. Hypermodern machines, and you can see that they're beat up, patched together, worn out and back again......It lent an element of believability that the most recent Star Wars movie lacked. Everything was sparkly new, and looked like it was created for a movie. Every week, everything in Voyager smells like fresh enamel.......and given the circumstances of their voyage, it just isn't believable any more.

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (<>)


>You just gave me a connection.......... One of the main reasons that the >early Star Wars movies worked was that a lot of their stuff was old. >Hypermodern machines, and you can see that they're beat up, patched >together, worn out and back again......It lent an element of believability >that the most recent Star Wars movie lacked. Everything was sparkly new, and >looked like it was created for a movie. I know. That's what I loved about the Millennium Falcon. It was constantly being repaired and rewired, basically re-everything, and there was always a few moments when Han tried something that you wondered if it was actually going to work. >Every week, everything in Voyager smells like fresh enamel.......and given >the circumstances of their voyage, it just isn't believable any more. > Especially the outer hull. That should have been showing scorch marks and dented plating years ago. The fact that the whole ship looks like if left Utopia Planetia last week just doesn't add to the credibility of the show anymore, IMO. Thena

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (kemosabe@skyenet.net)


On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 00:33:23 GMT, mayx@home.com wrote: |The majority of the people on this newsgroup are cyincal unhappy |trekers. They don't just enjoy a FREE tv series. They hate |EVERYTHING...they have to or they wouldn't have anything to talk |about. The way they talk about the series I wouldn't be supprised if |they had a pen and paper in there lap when they watch it...to write |down all the things they hate. Masked Man---->Over-reacting just a tad, my friend. I agree with you that somebody hates every episode, and some people hate all episodes, but that is a long way from a viable conclusion that we are all cynical and unhappy. Jaded, maybe. -- Who was that masked man?

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (shamtrek@aol.compizzagrl)


>From: Techlab >Or show a Santa-like alien leaving another shuttle in the bay.. > ROFL!!!!

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Laura Ware <laware@strato.net>)


Athena7843 <mailto:athena7843@aol.comno.spam> wrote in message news:20000226212606.17158.00002487@ng-ci1.aol.com... > >You just gave me a connection.......... One of the main reasons that the > >early Star Wars movies worked was that a lot of their stuff was old. > >Hypermodern machines, and you can see that they're beat up, patched > >together, worn out and back again......It lent an element of believability > >that the most recent Star Wars movie lacked. Everything was sparkly new, and > >looked like it was created for a movie. > > I know. That's what I loved about the Millennium Falcon. It was constantly > being repaired and rewired, basically re-everything, and there was always a few > moments when Han tried something that you wondered if it was actually going to > work. I know it didn't make sense, but I love the scene when Han flips something on, it conks out, he hits it with his fist and it comes on again. :-)

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Laura Ware <laware@strato.net>)


Jeff Casale <jcasale@isisgold.com> wrote in message news:896tse$23a24$1@fu-berlin.de... > I've been lurking on this group for quite a while, and have realized that > most of the people that post here are intelligent, and know their Star Trek. Welcome! > What I can not figure out is why I seem to enjoy most of the episodes put > out, while everybody here rips them apart. Well, not everyone, and not all the time. I have not really ripped up an episode like I did "Spirit Folk." >For instance I thought this > week's episode(Spirit Folk) was GREAT! That's right, great, and no, I'm not > being sarcastic. Cool. Different strokes and all that... >I think most of the episodes this season have been quite > enjoyable. I liked the Rock episode - in fact, I think there have been a number of good episodes this season. Maybe its because I'm not the traditional Star Trek fan in the > sense that I never was really able to enjoy the original series as much as > most folks. I am, however, a big fan of the other three series, and have > been for many years. > > So, I guess my question is, what would all of you like to see? By that, I > mean if you were in charge of coming up with the plot for an episode what > would it be? I ask this because it seems to me that whatever the writers > try to do get ripped to shreads in this NG. I look forward to reading your > responses. Like others, I think Voyager should be showing signs of being out in no man's land, instead of acting like the Federation is just around the corner. I also think TPTB should be making better use of the acting talent they have. Good first post. Don't stop now!

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Laura Ware <laware@strato.net>)


Techlab Photo Rescue <Techlab@photo-rescue.com> wrote in message news:38be9445.423500825@news.erols.com... > On 26 Feb 2000 19:58:27 GMT, athena7843@aol.comno.spam. (Athena7843) > wrote: > > > Not the most > >profound thing, but I don't think I could add anymore to it. Except, the > >shuttle thing. That was where I first got the inkling that the writers and/or > >the producers weren't going to go much in for continuity. How many of those > >dang things have they lost by now? It might be seen as anal, but sometimes I > >just find it hard to get into a stroy when they actually have a character say > >after losing umpteen of them, 'We have a full complement of shuttles right > >now!' > > It's gotten *so* ridiculous (the shuttle thing) that I'm actually > waiting for to see if they ever acknowledge it tongue-in-cheek > themselves in an episode. To my mind, that would constitute an > apology, yet not demean us or them by doing so. It would just be a > little wink to the viewers that says "Yeah, we know we've been > slipping that one in too many times .. sory.." (Not that I'm holding > my breath. Brannon, if you're reading .... ) > > Hey.. it could be as simple as reading the duty roster. "Lt. Kim, Lt. > Torres. .. you're on shuttle manufacturing" > > Or show a Santa-like alien leaving another shuttle in the bay.. > > "Janeway to Seven of Nine. How are your repairs to the shuttle > Replicator coming along?" > "Fine, captain. The nano-probes have repaired the damage. We should > have two new shuttles by 2100 hours." Or something someone mentioned a while ago....Tom wrecks a shuttle, and Harry grumbles, "You know how many weeks of Neelix's cooking we'll have to eat to replicate this?!"

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (<>)


>> I know. That's what I loved about the Millennium Falcon. It was constantly >> being repaired and rewired, basically re-everything, and there was always >a few >> moments when Han tried something that you wondered if it was actually >going to >> work. > >I know it didn't make sense, but I love the scene when Han flips something >on, it conks out, he hits it with his fist and it comes on again. >:-) > I liked it too. Of course, I like any scene that involves Han! ;-) Thena

2000-02-27 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (<>)


>> Or show a Santa-like alien leaving another shuttle in the bay.. >> >> "Janeway to Seven of Nine. How are your repairs to the shuttle >> Replicator coming along?" >> "Fine, captain. The nano-probes have repaired the damage. We should >> have two new shuttles by 2100 hours." > >Or something someone mentioned a while ago....Tom wrecks a shuttle, and >Harry grumbles, "You know how many weeks of Neelix's cooking we'll have to >eat to replicate this?!" > LOL.! It would be nice, but somehow I don't think Brannon and co. think like that. Ahh well, we can only but dream. :-) Thena

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: Promotion cycles in Starfleet - (Lever <Lever_member@newsguy.com>)


In article <hvAu4.48$IY5.4250@news2.voicenet.com>, "I says... > >mayx@home.com thus sprach: >>>>Hey.. it could be as simple as reading the duty roster. "Lt. Kim, Lt. >>>>Torres. .. you're on shuttle manufacturing" >>> >>>What is this Lt. Kim thing? When did he get promoted? > >Good point! He's been an academy grad for over 5 years now. Why is he >still just an ensign? He's just one of many examples of promotion >stagnation in all four series. > >In today's Navy, it takes 4 years to go from ensign to lieutenant (senior >grade), while in the 70s it took only 18 months. Will the promotion cycle >slow down this much more in 400 years? Janeway will give him another pip either this week or next.

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: Promotion cycles in Starfleet - (Charles Barber <phto@sympatico.ca>)


Why... So the "look and feel" of the show doesn`t change. I think somewhere there is a book of rules for each character the was written before the series started.. the only time it has been amended was to add 7 of 9 and Naomi or to delete Tes .The writers likely have very little breathing room as they write each episode.. any changes big or small likely have to be approved by the producers.. If the writers stay within the guide I wonder if they have to really struggle to get a script passed... Writer "here is my script" Producer (Quick scan) "it`s safe" its passed. > From: "I am Spartacus" <split@compuserve.com> > Newsgroups: alt.tv.star-trek.voyager > Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:02:21 GMT > Subject: Promotion cycles in Starfleet > > mayx@home.com thus sprach: >>>> Hey.. it could be as simple as reading the duty roster. "Lt. Kim, Lt. >>>> Torres. .. you're on shuttle manufacturing" >>> >>> What is this Lt. Kim thing? When did he get promoted? > > Good point! He's been an academy grad for over 5 years now. Why is he > still just an ensign? He's just one of many examples of promotion > stagnation in all four series. > > In today's Navy, it takes 4 years to go from ensign to lieutenant (senior > grade), while in the 70s it took only 18 months. Will the promotion cycle > slow down this much more in 400 years? > > THE GODS HAVE SPOKEN

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Promotion cycles in Starfleet - (I am Spartacus <split@compuserve.com>)


mayx@home.com thus sprach: >>>Hey.. it could be as simple as reading the duty roster. "Lt. Kim, Lt. >>>Torres. .. you're on shuttle manufacturing" >> >>What is this Lt. Kim thing? When did he get promoted? Good point! He's been an academy grad for over 5 years now. Why is he still just an ensign? He's just one of many examples of promotion stagnation in all four series. In today's Navy, it takes 4 years to go from ensign to lieutenant (senior grade), while in the 70s it took only 18 months. Will the promotion cycle slow down this much more in 400 years? THE GODS HAVE SPOKEN

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Laura Ware <laware@strato.net>)


Zabana Brandon <zabana@collegetoday.com> wrote in message news:38B97ECF.60B6@collegetoday.com... > Bozo the Great and Wise wroteded: > > > five iso-tons of potatoes with electrodes stuck in them ... > > > "Best possible spud, Mister Paris." - Capt. Janeway LOL!!

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: Shuttlecrafts EXPLAINED. - ("lurker@home" <bluesbird@crosswinds.net>)


mayx@home.com wrote in message <38ba1294.6370607@news>... > >>Hey.. it could be as simple as reading the duty roster. "Lt. Kim, Lt. >>Torres. .. you're on shuttle manufacturing" > >What is this Lt. Kim thing? When did he get promoted? > >Now I like to belive that the issue of the shuttle-crafts are easily >explained. As of alice they had a full compliment of shuttlecrafts, >and I CAN explain that. > >They have been rationing power to replactors to make more >shuttlecrafts. They oviously have the power to do that or they >couldn't make the delta flyer. > >When the delta flyer was made...they noticed a HUGE decline in >shuttlecraft destruction. So by the time "Alice" came around they >already made all the shuttlecrafts they needed...hence the statement >by tattoo-boy. > >It might also explain why harry didn't worry about replecating the >flowers in "Spriit folk"...they have laxed on the replactor rations >thing because they didn't need anymore shuttle-crafts. > >Eric > >Dose anyone know if they named there 13-15 shuttlecrafts that were >destroyed...it would be interesting to know all there names. Yes, they were called Redshirt I, Redshirt II, Redshirt III...... Speaking of the DF, I have the impression that it's basically a runabout with a new shell, plus upgraded engines, shielding and weapons. If that's the case, they'd have had the basic plans in file, and the replicators could have cranked them out. All they'd have had to work on were the specific mods they needed. That would greatly simplify the job.

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me...or not! - (mayx@home.com)


On Sun, 27 Feb 2000 02:41:30 GMT, kemosabe@skyenet.net (Masked Man) wrote: >On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 00:33:23 GMT, mayx@home.com wrote: > >|The majority of the people on this newsgroup are cyincal unhappy >|trekers. They don't just enjoy a FREE tv series. They hate >|EVERYTHING...they have to or they wouldn't have anything to talk >|about. The way they talk about the series I wouldn't be supprised if >|they had a pen and paper in there lap when they watch it...to write >|down all the things they hate. > >Masked Man---->Over-reacting just a tad, my friend. I agree with you >that somebody hates every episode, and some people hate all episodes, >but that is a long way from a viable conclusion that we are all >cynical and unhappy. Jaded, maybe. Ok, I agree. I'm sorry some of these people on this newsgroup really piss me off. They never like anything...not even when it is a good idea (Ex: 7/Doc). Eric The only othere fan's I have seen more jaded are the simpsons fans. Now they are just plain jerks.

2000-02-28 00:00:00 - Shuttlecrafts EXPLAINED. - (mayx@home.com)


>Hey.. it could be as simple as reading the duty roster. "Lt. Kim, Lt. >Torres. .. you're on shuttle manufacturing" What is this Lt. Kim thing? When did he get promoted? Now I like to belive that the issue of the shuttle-crafts are easily explained. As of alice they had a full compliment of shuttlecrafts, and I CAN explain that. They have been rationing power to replactors to make more shuttlecrafts. They oviously have the power to do that or they couldn't make the delta flyer. When the delta flyer was made...they noticed a HUGE decline in shuttlecraft destruction. So by the time "Alice" came around they already made all the shuttlecrafts they needed...hence the statement by tattoo-boy. It might also explain why harry didn't worry about replecating the flowers in "Spriit folk"...they have laxed on the replactor rations thing because they didn't need anymore shuttle-crafts. Eric Dose anyone know if they named there 13-15 shuttlecrafts that were destroyed...it would be interesting to know all there names.

2000-02-29 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> > I did enjoy some of the scenes with the Voyager crew, but they, too, weren't > depicted in a very kindly light here. Tom was a juvenile jerk. what else is new? :-( << Tom may be immature, but that cow prank was a new low even for him. >>> Harry was > wasting his replicator rations on a date with a blowup doll. Can you blame him? He's just following his idol's (=Janeway) bad example... :-) << That thought did occur to me. Cap'n KJ's setting a bad example for the crew..... -- Arlie

2000-02-29 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Arlie wrote: > > I hated "Spirit Folk," and have been vocal about it, I admit. However, I > rather liked "Tsunkatse," which you say "blew." > > As for what I want...well, I liked "Caretaker," "Emanations," "Non Sequitur," > "Twisted," "Meld," "Dreadnaught," "Innocence," "The Thaw," "The Chute," > "Message In a Bottle," "Killing Game," "Drone," "Timeless," "Warhead," > "Survival Instinct," "Riddles," "Pathfinder," and "Memorial." I wouldn't mind > more like them. > good taste :-) > I watch Voyager because I like the characters. I want to see them when I tune > in. *All* of them, not just Seven of Nine. well... 6-7 of them you *do* see on a regular basis... > And I want to see them portrayed > as decent, intelligent, likable people. that might apply only to 2-3 of them regularly... > "Spirit Folk" spent far too much time on the boring townsfolk. I don't care > about them. I don't know them, and I don't want to know them. They were > written as idiots. And not very nice ones, either. > > I did enjoy some of the scenes with the Voyager crew, but they, too, weren't > depicted in a very kindly light here. Tom was a juvenile jerk. what else is new? :-( > Harry was > wasting his replicator rations on a date with a blowup doll. Can you blame him? He's just following his idol's (=Janeway) bad example... :-) > Janeway came > across as pathetic, self-centered, and just plain dumb. B'Elanna was humorless > stick in the mud. and Tuvok and Neelix were non-existent... > I liked the Paris and Kim scenes...but it seems these days they're always comic > relief. We don't get serious stuff for them like we used in earlier seasons > ("Ex Post Facto," "The Chute"). at least you *do* still get stuff for them... > I might have liked "Spirit Folk," if all the characters weren't written like > idiots. And if the scenes with the townsfolk had been fewer and faster-paced. > But as it is..."Alice" was better. > (shudder) Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-01 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Zabana Brandon wrote: > > Silverhawk wrote: > > Bozo wrote: > > > >Or just check out "Survival Instinct" or "Memorial" or "Latent > > >Image" or "Living Witness" or "Timeless," for examples of what I > > >personally would like to see. > > > > Am I the only one that thinks Survival Instinct was nothing more than > > just an average ep? Out of the three season 6 eps I've seen so far, > > I'd rank it third. > > For me, it wasn't so much the episode as a whole that > I enjoyed ... it was a lot of the character moments > that VOY should've had years ago shich Moore managed > to sneak in there. Like what?????? Chucky trashing Tuvok? Janeway siding with Chucky and ignoring Tuvok's *justified* security concerns? Harry and Tommy getting into trouble, because they're such nerds????? Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-01 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


lurker@home wrote: > > Lisa wrote in message ... > > > > I am a fan of RB, but I take no umbrage at > >all to the people who dislike him, that's their opinion and they're > >entitled to it. > > So am I, although I rag on him mercilessly..... I do it because I think he's > being wasted, if *that* guy is being wasted, who gets loads of screentime despite being a very mediocre actor and not all that professional, then what do you call what they do to Tuvok and Neelix?????? > and some of the ways he's being wasted are just comical. If > you go back and look at the Chakotay character in the early eps compared to > what you see now, it's just glaring! He was just as bad an actor back then... and actually *more* in the background... Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-01 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Silverhawk wrote: > > >Or just check out "Survival Instinct" or "Memorial" or "Latent > >Image" or "Living Witness" or "Timeless," for examples of what I > >personally would like to see. > > Am I the only one that thinks Survival Instinct was nothing more than > just an average ep? Out of the three season 6 eps I've seen so far, > I'd rank it third. If the other two were "Tinker, Tenor,..." and "Riddles" I'll agree with you... :-) Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-01 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in message news:38BD0BA2.67D@hotmail.comTuvok.rules... > lurker@home wrote: > > > > Lisa wrote in message ... > > > > > > I am a fan of RB, but I take no umbrage at > > >all to the people who dislike him, that's their opinion and they're > > >entitled to it. > > > > So am I, although I rag on him mercilessly..... I do it because I think he's > > being wasted, > > if *that* guy is being wasted, who gets loads of screentime despite > being a very mediocre actor and not all that professional, then what do > you call what they do to Tuvok and Neelix?????? Definitely not mediocre, but why do you call him unprofessional? > > > and some of the ways he's being wasted are just comical. If > > you go back and look at the Chakotay character in the early eps compared to > > what you see now, it's just glaring! > > He was just as bad an actor back then... and actually *more* in the > background... I cant agree with you here Jules, he has never been a bad actor to the degree you seem to think. You and others may not appreciate the way that he portrays his character, but by no means can he be seen to be bad, there are others on the show who I consider to be really quite bad yet you will always find someone who thinks otherwise. To be honest I think he has been perceived in one way for such a long time that it is rare for anyone to actually watch him and really see what he is doing. In Memorial I thought he was excellent as he was in Timeless, he brought a real sense of maturity to the character whilst not hiding what he was actually going through, you only need to look in his eyes to see what he was suffering. Lisa > > Julianna > -------- > > Tuvok: > The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-01 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>> He was just as bad an actor back then... and actually *more* in the > background... I cant agree with you here Jules, << Me, neither. He wasn't more in the background. He used to be the co-star of the show, second only to Janeway. Now Chakotay fares no better than any of the other peons. All he had in season 5 was "The Fight," and that sucked. He hasn't had an episode this season, either. "One Small Step" was supposed to be his, but it was pretty much taken over by Seven. "Alice" was supposed to be his as well, and it ended up a Paris ep. >> he has never been a bad actor to the degree you seem to think. << Well, maybe not as bad as some I've seen. (Almost the entire cast of Space: 1999 for example. Aughhh!) But I do think his acting is below par compared to rest of the cast. (That scene where Paris rescues him in "Caretaker," which aired again last night -- RB's performance just made me cringe. It was so horribly wooden and fake. Shudder.) And that was when he was awake. When he's bored with material, it's painfully obvious. >> In Memorial I thought he was excellent as he was in Timeless, he brought a real sense of maturity to the character whilst not hiding what he was actually going through, you only need to look in his eyes to see what he was suffering. << I thought he was better than usual in "Memorial," but he's in no danger of getting an Emmy nomination. <g> And Chakotay was the biggest flaw in "Timeless," an otherwise terrific episode. Though I have to admit, part of that was the writing. It really wasn't clear why Chuckles would go along with Harry. He seemed to have made a new life for himself. He had a beautiful woman who loved him enough to die for him. Janeway and Voyager were 15 years ago, and I can't see him throwing it all away at that point. At least, Beltran didn't convince me. I'd heard that originally, it was supposed to be Paris instead of Chakotay with Harry. (Which makes sense, Paris being supposedly the best pilot.) But Garrett had asked for more screen time with RB, so they switched it so that Chakotay was the only other other survivor, instead of Paris. It might have made a little more sense if it had been Paris. Tom and Harry are close enough that you could see Tom going along with something Harry wanted so much. Kim and Chuckles just don't have that kind of history. Perhaps another actor could have sold it, but Beltran couldn't. -- Arlie

2000-03-01 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Arlie" <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message news:20000301075631.16410.00003297@ng-dc1.aol.com... > >>> He was just as bad an actor back then... and actually *more* in the > > background... > > I cant agree with you here Jules, << > > Me, neither. He wasn't more in the background. He used to be the co-star of > the show, second only to Janeway. Now Chakotay fares no better than any of the > other peons. All he had in season 5 was "The Fight," and that sucked. He > hasn't had an episode this season, either. "One Small Step" was supposed to be > his, but it was pretty much taken over by Seven. "Alice" was supposed to be > his as well, and it ended up a Paris ep. Exactly, he has had no real ep of his own for a long time and to my mind fares no better than any of the others. I would say that in a few eps this season though, especially the later ones they seem to have made an effort to pair him with other people than Janeway and it really shows that he is enjoying himself showing another side to the character rather than just the yes man he has been reduced to. > > >> he has never been a bad actor to the > degree you seem to think. << > > Well, maybe not as bad as some I've seen. (Almost the entire cast of Space: > 1999 for example. Aughhh!) But I do think his acting is below par compared to > rest of the cast. (That scene where Paris rescues him in "Caretaker," which > aired again last night -- RB's performance just made me cringe. It was so > horribly wooden and fake. Shudder.) LOL, yet for me he was the one thing that stood out in the whole episode and made me want to keep on watching! Yet I know you'll disagree on this, but it is GW's acting that has that effect on me and makes me cringe, just like it did last night when I watched Revulsion again. > > And that was when he was awake. When he's bored with material, it's painfully > obvious. > > >> In Memorial I thought > he was excellent as he was in Timeless, he brought a real sense of maturity > to the character whilst not hiding what he was actually going through, you > only need to look in his eyes to see what he was suffering. << > > I thought he was better than usual in "Memorial," but he's in no danger of > getting an Emmy nomination. <g> He'd get one from me! >And Chakotay was the biggest flaw in "Timeless," an otherwise terrific episode. What did he do wrong here????????? > > Though I have to admit, part of that was the writing. It really wasn't clear > why Chuckles would go along with Harry. He seemed to have made a new life for > himself. He had a beautiful woman who loved him enough to die for him. > Janeway and Voyager were 15 years ago, and I can't see him throwing it all away > at that point. At least, Beltran didn't convince me. It may have been ambiguous in the writing, but there was nothing wrong with his acting, I found it deeply touching. I can see that he would have tried to save the crew, especially Janeway, but had it come to nothing I don't think he would have been obsessional to the degree Harry was. Chak has obviously had a hell of a lot more to deal with in his past than Harry and seems to be able to cope far better than Harry, who seems to have a rather self introspective view of the world. The only problem I do have with Chak is that when he learnt his Maquis comrades were dead he was able to deal with that and move on and I cant imagine he felt any less loyalty and ties to them than he did the Voyager crew. So unfortunately I have to conclude that it was as much to do with Janeway than anything else, but had Harry not been around to assist him I very much suspect he would have left them to rest in peace. > > I'd heard that originally, it was supposed to be Paris instead of Chakotay with > Harry. (Which makes sense, Paris being supposedly the best pilot.) But > Garrett had asked for more screen time with RB, so they switched it so that > Chakotay was the only other other survivor, instead of Paris. > > It might have made a little more sense if it had been Paris. Tom and Harry are > close enough that you could see Tom going along with something Harry wanted so > much. Kim and Chuckles just don't have that kind of history. Perhaps another > actor could have sold it, but Beltran couldn't. I dont really see Paris doing what Chak did, I just dont think he has the depth of character, Chak was able to let Harry do what he needed and just be there for him, Tom would have tried to protect and mother Harry, whereas what I found significant from Chak was that at no point did he try and tell Harry it wasn't his fault, he allowed him the dignity of not trying to convince him otherwise, just offered what practical help he could. -- Lisa "When I'm feeling weak And my pain walks down a one way street I look above And I know I'll always be blessed with love" > > > -- Arlie

2000-03-02 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Silverhawk <analog-kid@eidosnet.co.uk>)


>> Am I the only one that thinks Survival Instinct was nothing more >> than just an average ep? Out of the three season 6 eps I've >> seen so far, I'd rank it third. > > If the other two were "Tinker, Tenor,..." and "Riddles" I'll agree > with you... :-) > >Julianna Close. "Tinker Tenor" and "Barge of the Dead" actually. Lisa has been kind enough to lend me the tapes. I think I'm getting "Equinox 2" and "Alice" next. Silverhawk -- "Paranoia's the only thing that's kept me alive this long, hon'. You'd better learn to think the same, otherwise BANG... you'll be out the game."

2000-03-02 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> > All he had in season 5 was "The Fight," and that sucked. "In the Flesh".... "Timeless".... co-starring parts in "Exrtreme Risk", "Nothing Human" etc. << I'll concede "In the Flesh," but he was just excess baggage in "Timeless." And he's the only one who hasn't had an episode (or even half an episode) this season. >>> "Alice" was supposed to be > his as well, and it ended up a Paris ep. I can't decide what would have been worse: Tommy or Chuckles possessed by Alice... << I can see why they changed it. One, Paris is a pilot, so it's natural for him to fall in love with a ship. Two, Paris has a girlfriend and a best friend to abuse when he gets possessed -- dramatic possibilities, and all that. Three, if Chuckles got possessed, Janeway would be the natural one to notice and step in, and Mulgrew wanted more time off. I do think it worked better as a Paris episode. If only because Robbie's better at acting tortured than Beltran is. However, the question of which of them would look worse in that Jiffy Pop costume is still undecided. <g> >>> I'd heard that originally, it was supposed to be Paris instead of Chakotay with > Harry. (Which makes sense, Paris being supposedly the best pilot.) But > Garrett had asked for more screen time with RB, so they switched it so that > Chakotay was the only other other survivor, instead of Paris. > again: not much of a difference... << I think Paris is more likely than Chakotay to throw it all away in hopes of changing history. One, he's so close to Harry that you can believe he'd do anything to help him. Heck, he did it before, in "Non Sequitur." Two, Paris owes everything to Janeway, who fished him out of jail and gave him a second chance. So he has motivation of his own as well. I wonder if the character of Tessa was originally written as Paris' girlfriend. She really seemed unnecessary to the plot. And it was hard to believe that Chakotay would let her risk her life for Harry's fool's quest. But if it had been Paris and Kim who survived, Tessa *would* have been necessary...to prove to the audience that they weren't gay. <g> >>> It might have made a little more sense if it had been Paris. Tom and Harry are > close enough that you could see Tom going along with something Harry wanted so > much. Kim and Chuckles just don't have that kind of history. Perhaps another > actor could have sold it, but Beltran couldn't. Beltran doesn't have any chemistry with any of the boys either, the only person with who he has something even remotely resembling chemistry being B'Elanna. << I do like Chuckles with B'Elanna. He's awful with Paris, though. Chakotay-Kim is okay, mainly because Garrett has a knack for working with just about anyone. -- Arlie

2000-03-02 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>> Tom may be immature, but that cow prank was a new low even for him. > not that different from how he treated B'Elanna in "Memorial"... :-((( << He really couldn't help his behavior in "Memorial." The cow prank, OTOH, was definitely pre-meditated! Besides, Tom always treats B'Elanna like dirt. This is Harry, who's usually treated with more respect. -- Arlie

2000-03-02 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Arlie wrote: > > >> > I did enjoy some of the scenes with the Voyager crew, but they, too, > weren't > > depicted in a very kindly light here. Tom was a juvenile jerk. > > what else is new? :-( << > > Tom may be immature, but that cow prank was a new low even for him. > not that different from how he treated B'Elanna in "Memorial"... :-((( > >>> Harry was > > wasting his replicator rations on a date with a blowup doll. > > Can you blame him? He's just following his idol's (=Janeway) bad > example... :-) << > > That thought did occur to me. Cap'n KJ's setting a bad example for the > crew..... obviously... :-((( Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-02 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Lisa wrote: > > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in > message news:38BD0BA2.67D@hotmail.comTuvok.rules.. > > lurker@home wrote: > > > > > > Lisa wrote in message ... > > > > > > > > I am a fan of RB, but I take no umbrage at > > > >all to the people who dislike him, that's their opinion and they're > > > >entitled to it. > > > > > > So am I, although I rag on him mercilessly..... I do it because I think > he's > > > being wasted, > > > > if *that* guy is being wasted, who gets loads of screentime despite > > being a very mediocre actor and not all that professional, then what do > > you call what they do to Tuvok and Neelix?????? > > Definitely not mediocre, but why do you call him unprofessional? > > > > > > and some of the ways he's being wasted are just comical. If > > > you go back and look at the Chakotay character in the early eps compared > to > > > what you see now, it's just glaring! > > > > He was just as bad an actor back then... and actually *more* in the > > background... > > I cant agree with you here Jules, he has never been a bad actor to the > degree you seem to think. oh, he has... he has been by far the least convincing one of the entire cast right from the beginning > You and others may not appreciate the way that he > portrays his character, but by no means can he be seen to be bad, unfortunately he can. He doesn't even know how to breath correctly. This is *basic* knowledge for somebody who studies acting. > there are > others on the show who I consider to be really quite bad yet you will always > find someone who thinks otherwise. To be honest I think he has been > perceived in one way for such a long time that it is rare for anyone to > actually watch him and really see what he is doing. The problem is: we've seen him so often in eps that were so diametrically opposed in mood and content, he's probably had the greatest chances at showing range of *any* cast member, yet he was unconvincing in *all* of them. > In Memorial I thought > he was excellent as he was in Timeless, he brought a real sense of maturity > to the character whilst not hiding what he was actually going through, you > only need to look in his eyes to see what he was suffering. His eyes are about *the* least expressive I've seen in an actor. There is *nothing* there. And his body language and facial expressions are as bland as soup without salt. Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-02 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Arlie wrote: > > >>> He was just as bad an actor back then... and actually *more* in the > > background... > > I cant agree with you here Jules, << > > Me, neither. He wasn't more in the background. in season 1 he was. That's the good thing about the first season: the two nuisances are nowhere near as prominent as they are now :-) > He used to be the co-star of > the show, second only to Janeway. Now Chakotay fares no better than any of the > other peons. well.... *nobody* fares anywhere near as poorly as Tuvok > All he had in season 5 was "The Fight," and that sucked. "In the Flesh".... "Timeless".... co-starring parts in "Exrtreme Risk", "Nothing Human" etc. > He > hasn't had an episode this season, either. "One Small Step" was supposed to be > his, but it was pretty much taken over by Seven. "Alice" was supposed to be > his as well, and it ended up a Paris ep. I can't decide what would have been worse: Tommy or Chuckles possessed by Alice... > >> he has never been a bad actor to the > degree you seem to think. << > > Well, maybe not as bad as some I've seen. (Almost the entire cast of Space: > 1999 for example. Aughhh!) But I do think his acting is below par compared to > rest of the cast. (That scene where Paris rescues him in "Caretaker," which > aired again last night -- RB's performance just made me cringe. It was so > horribly wooden and fake. Shudder.) seconded. And it's really something to come off as fake next to RDM! > And that was when he was awake. When he's bored with material, it's painfully > obvious. and when he's on the bridge he just slumps into his chair and goes into standby-mode... > >> In Memorial I thought > he was excellent as he was in Timeless, he brought a real sense of maturity > to the character whilst not hiding what he was actually going through, you > only need to look in his eyes to see what he was suffering. << > > I thought he was better than usual in "Memorial," but he's in no danger of > getting an Emmy nomination. <g> And Chakotay was the biggest flaw in > "Timeless," an otherwise terrific episode. > agreed > Though I have to admit, part of that was the writing. It really wasn't clear > why Chuckles would go along with Harry. But then, Chucky always does things that are not really thought through... > He seemed to have made a new life for > himself. He had a beautiful woman who loved him enough to die for him. > Janeway and Voyager were 15 years ago, and I can't see him throwing it all away > at that point. At least, Beltran didn't convince me. > when does he ever? > I'd heard that originally, it was supposed to be Paris instead of Chakotay with > Harry. (Which makes sense, Paris being supposedly the best pilot.) But > Garrett had asked for more screen time with RB, so they switched it so that > Chakotay was the only other other survivor, instead of Paris. > again: not much of a difference... > It might have made a little more sense if it had been Paris. Tom and Harry are > close enough that you could see Tom going along with something Harry wanted so > much. Kim and Chuckles just don't have that kind of history. Perhaps another > actor could have sold it, but Beltran couldn't. Beltran doesn't have any chemistry with any of the boys either, the only person with who he has something even remotely resembling chemistry being B'Elanna. Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-02 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Lisa wrote: > > "Arlie" <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message > news:20000301075631.16410.00003297@ng-dc1.aol.com.. > > >>> He was just as bad an actor back then... and actually *more* in the > > > background... > > > > I cant agree with you here Jules, << > > > > Me, neither. He wasn't more in the background. He used to be the co-star > of > > the show, second only to Janeway. Now Chakotay fares no better than any > of the > > other peons. All he had in season 5 was "The Fight," and that sucked. He > > hasn't had an episode this season, either. "One Small Step" was supposed > to be > > his, but it was pretty much taken over by Seven. "Alice" was supposed to > be > > his as well, and it ended up a Paris ep. > > Exactly, he has had no real ep of his own for a long time nowhere near as long ago as Tuvok's "Random Thoughts"... > and to my mind > fares no better than any of the others. he just has almost twice their screentime and exposure, thus chance of being noticed and being able to land another job after Voyager... > I would say that in a few eps this > season though, especially the later ones they seem to have made an effort to > pair him with other people than Janeway and it really shows that he is > enjoying himself showing another side to the character rather than just the > yes man he has been reduced to. > it's just a pity he doesn't have any chemistry with any of these people... > > > > >> he has never been a bad actor to the > > degree you seem to think. << > > > > Well, maybe not as bad as some I've seen. (Almost the entire cast of > Space: > > 1999 for example. Aughhh!) But I do think his acting is below par > compared to > > rest of the cast. (That scene where Paris rescues him in "Caretaker," > which > > aired again last night -- RB's performance just made me cringe. It was > so > > horribly wooden and fake. Shudder.) > > LOL, yet for me he was the one thing that stood out in the whole episode and > made me want to keep on watching! Yet I know you'll disagree on this, but > it is GW's acting that has that effect on me and makes me cringe, just like > it did last night when I watched Revulsion again. > not at all! Garrett may have been a bit inexperienced at the beginning but he's getting better all the time and he's now really good! > > > > And that was when he was awake. When he's bored with material, it's > painfully > > obvious. > > > > >> In Memorial I thought > > he was excellent as he was in Timeless, he brought a real sense of > maturity > > to the character whilst not hiding what he was actually going through, you > > only need to look in his eyes to see what he was suffering. << > > > > I thought he was better than usual in "Memorial," but he's in no danger of > > getting an Emmy nomination. <g> > > He'd get one from me! > (sigh) > >And Chakotay was the biggest flaw in "Timeless," an otherwise terrific > episode. > > What did he do wrong here????????? he did *nothing*. He said his lines and that was it > > > > Though I have to admit, part of that was the writing. It really wasn't > clear > > why Chuckles would go along with Harry. He seemed to have made a new life > for > > himself. He had a beautiful woman who loved him enough to die for him. > > Janeway and Voyager were 15 years ago, and I can't see him throwing it all > away > > at that point. At least, Beltran didn't convince me. > > It may have been ambiguous in the writing, but there was nothing wrong with > his acting, I found it deeply touching. I can see that he would have tried > to save the crew, especially Janeway, but had it come to nothing I don't > think he would have been obsessional to the degree Harry was. Chak has > obviously had a hell of a lot more to deal with in his past than Harry considering Harry's backstory (how often he has died or his girlfriends have died etc.) I doubt that's possible... > and > seems to be able to cope far better than Harry, who seems to have a rather > self introspective view of the world. > Chucky just can't be bothered with problems. He doesn't think about them. He's oblivious of them > The only problem I do have with Chak is that when he learnt his Maquis > comrades were dead he was able to deal with that and move on because he did not really care > and I cant > imagine he felt any less loyalty and ties to them than he did the Voyager > crew. So unfortunately I have to conclude that it was as much to do with > Janeway than anything else, but had Harry not been around to assist him I > very much suspect he would have left them to rest in peace. > of course - *he* did not care all that much. Harry somehow manipulated him to come along since he couldn't do it alone. He's a gullible one, remember? > > > > I'd heard that originally, it was supposed to be Paris instead of Chakotay > with > > Harry. (Which makes sense, Paris being supposedly the best pilot.) But > > Garrett had asked for more screen time with RB, so they switched it so > that > > Chakotay was the only other other survivor, instead of Paris. > > > > It might have made a little more sense if it had been Paris. Tom and > Harry are > > close enough that you could see Tom going along with something Harry > wanted so > > much. Kim and Chuckles just don't have that kind of history. Perhaps > another > > actor could have sold it, but Beltran couldn't. > > I dont really see Paris doing what Chak did, I just dont think he has the > depth of character, It's hard to say which of them has more depth: Chucky or Tommy... > Chak was able to let Harry do what he needed and just be > there for him, Chucky was hanging around without caring, a piece of dead wood. Tommy would have bitched and made his comments and hindered Harry > Tom would have tried to protect and mother Harry, whereas > what I found significant from Chak was that at no point did he try and tell > Harry it wasn't his fault, he allowed him the dignity of not trying to > convince him otherwise, just offered what practical help he could. He offered help????? Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Silverhawk <analog-kid@eidosnet.co.uk>)


>> > If the other two were "Tinker, Tenor,..." and "Riddles" I'll >> > agree with you... :-) >> > >> >Julianna >> >> Close. "Tinker Tenor" and "Barge of the Dead" actually. Lisa >> has been kind enough to lend me the tapes. > >That's nice of her! >> >> I think I'm getting "Equinox 2" and "Alice" next. > >Jeez! Why would you want to watch "Alice"?????????? > >Julianna I'm prepared to give all Voyager episodes a fair chance (yes, even Spirit Folk). Although the reviews posted here do help me in knowing what sort of thing to expect, I don't want to prejudge any ep until I've actually seen them for myself. Silverhawk -- "Paranoia's the only thing that's kept me alive this long, hon'. You'd better learn to think the same, otherwise BANG... you'll be out the game."

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>> I'll concede "In the Flesh," but he was just excess baggage in "Timeless." And > he's the only one who hasn't had an episode (or even half an episode) this > season. Excess baggage my foot! He was great in Timeless, for me he really made the episode, a nice counter balance to Harrys Great Obsession. << I just didn't understand why he was there. Chakotay doesn't strike me as the type to obsess on the past that way, and he didn't have the kind of guilt Harry had. >> > However, the question of which of them would look worse in that Jiffy Pop > costume is still undecided. <g> No contest, Chak may be on the stocky side, but he doesnt have the double chin that Robbie has been known to sport <g> << But it's not the chin that looked bad. The costume actually wasn't too bad from the shoulders up. It was the poufy cut around the hips that made it hideous. Yuck. Re Tessa: >> I think she was probably there again to try and show a little balance between past and present and maybe for them to show a little reluctance at what they were about to do. << She was even worse than excess baggage -- she was an outright detriment to the plot, IMO. I just couldn't see Chakotay agreeing to let her come along. Nor could I see why she'd *want* to come along. Because she cares about Harry, she says. Which I might buy in the "present" time, but Future Harry was outright mean to her. And if Chakotay didn't have a girlfriend, I might think that maybe he came back for Janeway -- that he'd never gotten over her. But the way Beltran played it, he *had* gotten over her. He was in it only because it mattered so much to Harry. That just did not seem like reasonable behavior to me. Character motivation is 90% of making a story convincing. Harry's motivation was compelling, and that made this episode. Chakotay's was a mess, and Tessa's even worse. -- Arlie

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>> I'll concede "In the Flesh," but he was just excess baggage in "Timeless." oh, he only had more lines in it than Tim had in "Gravity"... << But line counts aren't everything. "Timeless" was a Harry episode, not a Chuckles ep. >>> And > he's the only one who hasn't had an episode (or even half an episode) this > season. "One Small Step" sure looked like a half-ep to me... he even had more lines in it than Tim in "Riddles"... << Nah. It was a Seven ep. And the rest of it was split between Paris and Chuckles. At most, he got one-third of the ep, and given the unfair share Seven got, it's probably more like one-fourth. >> four, Tommy is a jerk who would value an object higher than a person while Chucky is a thing without any emotions or passions << Don't mince words, Julianna, tell us what you *really* think.... <g> -- Arlie

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (berli@my-deja.com)


In article <38b70e65.2638696@news>, mayx@home.com wrote: > The majority of the people on this newsgroup are cyincal unhappy > trekers. You got that right. Hey, I liked Star Trek, and these bozos are running it into the ground. Wouldn't you be a little ticked if the same franchise that produced ratings bonanza TNG was sinking like a stone? > They don't just enjoy a FREE tv series. It's not free. You have to watch 15-20 mins of commercials per episode (depending on whether it's new, or a rerun, or if they were forced to show extra commercials due to low ratings). > They hate > EVERYTHING... Wrong. If I didn't like the original Star Trek and it's aliens, if I didn't love science and sf, if I didn't care about the ST universe, I wouldn't be upset about what's happening to VOY now. Get some perspective already. I'm sure people were a lot more positive back at the beginning of this season when they churned out a series of good episodes. > The way they talk about the series I wouldn't be supprised if > they had a pen and paper in there lap when they watch it...to write > down all the things they hate. By Teutatis, you found us out! > there are those of us in the NG that do enjoy the show. We don't talk > up very often becuase the majoity's bigitory. Or because you're afraid we'll mock your spelling. Use pico. It has a spell check. :-) -Berli, of the Grey Council <*> -- Save Star Trek from mediocrity! Join the Excelsior campaign: http://excelsior.iftcommand.com/ --- Visit the Underground Newton Transportation Site http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/6405/unts.html Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (berli@my-deja.com)


In article <38BEAD13.234B@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>, glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules wrote: > well.... *nobody* fares anywhere near as poorly as Tuvok No kidding. If you thought the Vulcan-bashing in DS9 was bad . . . > seconded. And it's really something to come off as fake next to RDM! Why do you say that? > > > And that was when he was awake. When he's bored with material, it's painfully > > obvious. Yeah. Seriously, he should have moved to greener pastures long ago. He's wasting his time and he knows it. > and when he's on the bridge he just slumps into his chair and goes into > standby-mode... > > Beltran doesn't have any chemistry with any of the boys either, the only > person with who he has something even remotely resembling chemistry > being B'Elanna. No kidding. Both the two actors and the two characters had chemistry, which is so terribly underused. Frankly, the whole Maquis backstory is underused. Chakotay's best scenes have been "Maquis" scenes. Don't expect to see much from B'elanna in the future, though. According to Ron Moore, tptb do not at all care about her character. P/Ters should read this too: http://www.fandom.com/star_trek/Editorial.asp?action=page&obj_id=63235 -berli -- Save Star Trek from mediocrity! Join the Excelsior campaign: http://excelsior.iftcommand.com/ --- Visit the Underground Newton Transportation Site http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/6405/unts.html Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (berli@my-deja.com)


In article <38BFCFF3.1504@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>, glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules wrote: > > I wonder if the character of Tessa was originally written as Paris' girlfriend. > > She really seemed unnecessary to the plot. And it was hard to believe that > > Chakotay would let her risk her life for Harry's fool's quest. > > But if it had > > been Paris and Kim who survived, Tessa *would* have been necessary...to prove > > to the audience that they weren't gay. <g> > > ROTFLOL! I second! -- Save Star Trek from mediocrity. Join the Excelsior campaign: http://excelsior.iftcommand.com/ --- Visit the Underground Newton Transportation Site http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/6405/unts.html Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Silverhawk" <analog-kid@eidosnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:89mfff$16me$1@quince.news.easynet.net... > >> Am I the only one that thinks Survival Instinct was nothing more > >> than just an average ep? Out of the three season 6 eps I've > >> seen so far, I'd rank it third. > > > > If the other two were "Tinker, Tenor,..." and "Riddles" I'll agree > > with you... :-) > > > >Julianna > > Close. "Tinker Tenor" and "Barge of the Dead" actually. Lisa has > been kind enough to lend me the tapes. I think I'm getting "Equinox > 2" and "Alice" next. > :-))) Lisa

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in message news:38BFD061.3C7D@hotmail.comTuvok.rules... > Silverhawk wrote: > > > > >> Am I the only one that thinks Survival Instinct was nothing more > > >> than just an average ep? Out of the three season 6 eps I've > > >> seen so far, I'd rank it third. > > > > > > If the other two were "Tinker, Tenor,..." and "Riddles" I'll agree > > > with you... :-) > > > > > >Julianna > > > > Close. "Tinker Tenor" and "Barge of the Dead" actually. Lisa has > > been kind enough to lend me the tapes. > > That's nice of her! > > > I think I'm getting "Equinox > > 2" and "Alice" next. > > Jeez! Why would you want to watch "Alice"?????????? > Dont worry Jules, theres a "Public Health Warning" sticker on the box <eg> Lisa

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Arlie" <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message news:20000302145942.01243.00003146@ng-xe1.aol.com... > >> > All he had in season 5 was "The Fight," and that sucked. > > "In the Flesh".... "Timeless".... co-starring parts in "Exrtreme Risk", > "Nothing Human" etc. << > > I'll concede "In the Flesh," but he was just excess baggage in "Timeless." And > he's the only one who hasn't had an episode (or even half an episode) this > season. Excess baggage my foot! He was great in Timeless, for me he really made the episode, a nice counter balance to Harrys Great Obsession. > > > I do think it worked better as a Paris episode. If only because Robbie's > better at acting tortured than Beltran is. > > However, the question of which of them would look worse in that Jiffy Pop > costume is still undecided. <g> No contest, Chak may be on the stocky side, but he doesnt have the double chin that Robbie has been known to sport <g> > > I wonder if the character of Tessa was originally written as Paris' girlfriend. > She really seemed unnecessary to the plot. And it was hard to believe that > Chakotay would let her risk her life for Harry's fool's quest. But if it had > been Paris and Kim who survived, Tessa *would* have been necessary...to prove > to the audience that they weren't gay. <g> I think she was probably there again to try and show a little balance between past and present and maybe for them to show a little reluctance at what they were about to do. Its a shame this was never a two parter, they could have rounded things out much better and included a larger part for Geordi who was disapointingly under utilised. -- Lisa "When I'm feeling weak And my pain walks down a one way street I look above And I know I'll always be blessed with love"

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Arlie wrote: > > >> > All he had in season 5 was "The Fight," and that sucked. > > "In the Flesh".... "Timeless".... co-starring parts in "Exrtreme Risk", > "Nothing Human" etc. << > > I'll concede "In the Flesh," but he was just excess baggage in "Timeless." oh, he only had more lines in it than Tim had in "Gravity"... > And > he's the only one who hasn't had an episode (or even half an episode) this > season. "One Small Step" sure looked like a half-ep to me... he even had more lines in it than Tim in "Riddles"... > >>> "Alice" was supposed to be > > his as well, and it ended up a Paris ep. > > I can't decide what would have been worse: Tommy or Chuckles possessed > by Alice... << > > I can see why they changed it. One, Paris is a pilot, so it's natural for him > to fall in love with a ship. Two, Paris has a girlfriend and a best friend to > abuse when he gets possessed -- dramatic possibilities, and all that. Three, > if Chuckles got possessed, Janeway would be the natural one to notice and step > in, and Mulgrew wanted more time off. > four, Tommy is a jerk who would value an object higher than a person while Chucky is a thing without any emotions or passions > I do think it worked better as a Paris episode. If only because Robbie's > better at acting tortured than Beltran is. I can't decide which performance I would find less convincing > However, the question of which of them would look worse in that Jiffy Pop > costume is still undecided. <g> > they'd both look ridiculous in it > >>> I'd heard that originally, it was supposed to be Paris instead of Chakotay > with > > Harry. (Which makes sense, Paris being supposedly the best pilot.) But > > Garrett had asked for more screen time with RB, so they switched it so that > > Chakotay was the only other other survivor, instead of Paris. > > > > again: not much of a difference... << > > I think Paris is more likely than Chakotay to throw it all away in hopes of > changing history. One, he's so close to Harry that you can believe he'd do > anything to help him. Heck, he did it before, in "Non Sequitur." Two, Paris > owes everything to Janeway, who fished him out of jail and gave him a second > chance. So he has motivation of his own as well. sort of... > I wonder if the character of Tessa was originally written as Paris' girlfriend. > She really seemed unnecessary to the plot. And it was hard to believe that > Chakotay would let her risk her life for Harry's fool's quest. Chucky? He wouldn't notice she's still there... > But if it had > been Paris and Kim who survived, Tessa *would* have been necessary...to prove > to the audience that they weren't gay. <g> ROTFLOL! > >>> It might have made a little more sense if it had been Paris. Tom and Harry > are > > close enough that you could see Tom going along with something Harry wanted > so > > much. Kim and Chuckles just don't have that kind of history. Perhaps > another > > actor could have sold it, but Beltran couldn't. > > Beltran doesn't have any chemistry with any of the boys either, the only > person with who he has something even remotely resembling chemistry > being B'Elanna. << > > I do like Chuckles with B'Elanna. He's awful with Paris, though. Chakotay-Kim > is okay, mainly because Garrett has a knack for working with just about anyone. > Chucky-B'Elanna is the only combination that works at least halfways. Everybody else has to be pitied if in a scene with that plank of wood. Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Arlie wrote: > > >>> Tom may be immature, but that cow prank was a new low even for him. > > > > not that different from how he treated B'Elanna in "Memorial"... :-((( << > > He really couldn't help his behavior in "Memorial." The cow prank, OTOH, was > definitely pre-meditated! > > Besides, Tom always treats B'Elanna like dirt. This is Harry, who's usually > treated with more respect. Since nobody has ever tried to turn the jerk into a responsible human being he's becoming more of a jerk every day... Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-03 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Silverhawk wrote: > > >> Am I the only one that thinks Survival Instinct was nothing more > >> than just an average ep? Out of the three season 6 eps I've > >> seen so far, I'd rank it third. > > > > If the other two were "Tinker, Tenor,..." and "Riddles" I'll agree > > with you... :-) > > > >Julianna > > Close. "Tinker Tenor" and "Barge of the Dead" actually. Lisa has > been kind enough to lend me the tapes. That's nice of her! > I think I'm getting "Equinox > 2" and "Alice" next. Jeez! Why would you want to watch "Alice"?????????? Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-05 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <20000305062129.17311.00000286@ng-xe1.aol.com>, arlie88@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) writes: >>> I could see how Tom and Harry would have done this, but I don't think that >Tom >would have been able to build another life for himself in the intervening >time, >just based on his reactions to Caldic Prime, the Maquis, etc., << > >I think he could have. This time, after all, it wasn't his fault. > >But if he couldn't build a new life, the story would have made even more >sense. >He'd have that much more reason to go back and try to change the past. Good point...can't disagree here, and 2 of the 3 people on Voyager with the most gripes with Star Fleet are Tom and Chakotay, so going against their wishes would make sense. > >I also think Tom is more likely to not have ethical problems with changing >the >past. Chakotay would, I'd think. Particularly if he had made a new life, >with >friends and lovers who had a stake in the status quo. I agree here...Tom is much more of a pragmatist--like Janeway. I think the lover in this episode was to make us realize, aside from the gray hair, that 15 years had passed and yes, they did have lives to give up that would be difficult to illustrate. > >>> nor do I think >that he has had enough command experience to deal with the repercussions of >the decision, not to mention that I think Tom would have had a problem >dealing >with the Doc. << > >But all that would just add to the drama. Hardly fatal flaws, story-wise. No, but it might have drawn away from the focus on Harry's angst. I think it was Lisa who pointed out that Tom would have been much more into facing Harry's problem with him, whereas Chakotay left Harry to work out his demons on his own (and with the Doc.) > >>> Chakotay's also very much a man who lives in the present, contrasted with >Harry >who became a man who couldn't in this episode. << > >Exactly. Which is why I just couldn't see him going along with this. > >>> I also think that TPTB wussed out on Chakotay's motivation...they gave us >just >a *hint that Chakotay would do this for Janeway << > >I might be able to believe this if not for Tessa. Well, Chakotay hearing Janeway's message was cut out of my episode, so I haven't seen that yet, but since they refuse to commit to anything but a casual relationship between J/C, you're right---Chakotay's motivation is much less clear. They did give us dinner scene where Chakotay puts up and shuts up as Janeway manipulates him once again, and his regret over not giving her a fight when she makes it a loyalty issue, was evident. > >>> So it was RB who sold this ep for me, but I liked GW's performance in it. ><< > >I liked the episode, but it would have been much, much better without Tessa. >It was hard to believe Chuckles would go along with this, but even harder to >believe he would involve his girlfriend (or that she would agree to it). LOL, from a Chakotay fan's POV, it wasn't hard for me to see that she would adore him or be willing to do that for him. I liked Tessa well enough, and thought that she (or Chakotay) should have racked Harry for his rudeness about their relationship--and yes, I know that was used to see how much this event had changed Harry... I could also see that the Tessa part wasn't necessary, but overall I liked it and it's in my Top Ten Voyager Eps. Doreen

2000-03-05 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <9gTt4.4793$243.143611@news3.cableinet.net>, "Lisa" <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> writes: >"lurker@home" <bluesbird@crosswinds.net> wrote in message >news:3HRt4.3135$rY6.33717@typhoon.socal.rr.com... >> >> Lisa wrote in message ... >> > >> > I am a fan of RB, but I take no umbrage at >> >all to the people who dislike him, that's their opinion and they're >> >entitled to it. >> >> So am I, although I rag on him mercilessly..... I do it because I think >he's >> being wasted, and some of the ways he's being wasted are just comical. If >> you go back and look at the Chakotay character in the early eps compared >to >> what you see now, it's just glaring! >> >> > >It surely is! I do think they have redeemed him slightly in this season >though, they seem to be taking him away from Janeway and putting him with >the others more which he seems to be enjoying. He really is an excellent >actor who is just not appreciated here by the producers or the viewers. >Doreen has sent me a tape of some of his stuff and even though I am already >a fan I have been very impressed with what I have seen so far. > > >-- >Lisa Glad to hear that Lisa! And lurker, I couldn't agree more...TPTB seem to have a couple of characters(Doc, Seven) that they wish to develop and actors that they wish to use to their best advantage. The rest of the characters are just slotted in as plot devices and the strengths of the actors ignored. I'd like to see them take a few risks with their characters...what have they got to lose at this point? Doreen

2000-03-05 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <20000301075631.16410.00003297@ng-dc1.aol.com>, arlie88@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) writes: >I thought he was better than usual in "Memorial," but he's in no danger of >getting an Emmy nomination. <g> And Chakotay was the biggest flaw in >"Timeless," an otherwise terrific episode. > >Though I have to admit, part of that was the writing. It really wasn't clear >why Chuckles would go along with Harry. He seemed to have made a new life >for >himself. He had a beautiful woman who loved him enough to die for him. >Janeway and Voyager were 15 years ago, and I can't see him throwing it all >away >at that point. At least, Beltran didn't convince me. > >I'd heard that originally, it was supposed to be Paris instead of Chakotay >with >Harry. (Which makes sense, Paris being supposedly the best pilot.) But >Garrett had asked for more screen time with RB, so they switched it so that >Chakotay was the only other other survivor, instead of Paris. > >It might have made a little more sense if it had been Paris. Tom and Harry >are >close enough that you could see Tom going along with something Harry wanted >so >much. Kim and Chuckles just don't have that kind of history. Perhaps >another >actor could have sold it, but Beltran couldn't. LOL Arlie...it was just the opposite for me! (what a shock, huh?) I could see how Tom and Harry would have done this, but I don't think that Tom would have been able to build another life for himself in the intervening time, just based on his reactions to Caldic Prime, the Maquis, etc., nor do I think that he has had enough command experience to deal with the repercussions of the decision, not to mention that I think Tom would have had a problem dealing with the Doc. Chakotay's also very much a man who lives in the present, contrasted with Harry who became a man who couldn't in this episode. I liked the contrast between Harry's angst and Chakotay's calm--otherwise I probably would have had Shammy's Memorial reaction to Harry (suck it up!)as well as the contrast between Harry's inexperience at having to carry the weight of command and Chakotay's resignation about it. I also think that TPTB wussed out on Chakotay's motivation...they gave us just a *hint that Chakotay would do this for Janeway (as we J/Cers used to believe until we found out that she prefers screwing the 24th century equivalent of lightbulbs). So it was RB who sold this ep for me, but I liked GW's performance in it. Doreen

2000-03-05 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> I could see how Tom and Harry would have done this, but I don't think that Tom would have been able to build another life for himself in the intervening time, just based on his reactions to Caldic Prime, the Maquis, etc., << I think he could have. This time, after all, it wasn't his fault. But if he couldn't build a new life, the story would have made even more sense. He'd have that much more reason to go back and try to change the past. I also think Tom is more likely to not have ethical problems with changing the past. Chakotay would, I'd think. Particularly if he had made a new life, with friends and lovers who had a stake in the status quo. >> nor do I think that he has had enough command experience to deal with the repercussions of the decision, not to mention that I think Tom would have had a problem dealing with the Doc. << But all that would just add to the drama. Hardly fatal flaws, story-wise. >> Chakotay's also very much a man who lives in the present, contrasted with Harry who became a man who couldn't in this episode. << Exactly. Which is why I just couldn't see him going along with this. >> I also think that TPTB wussed out on Chakotay's motivation...they gave us just a *hint that Chakotay would do this for Janeway << I might be able to believe this if not for Tessa. >> So it was RB who sold this ep for me, but I liked GW's performance in it. << I liked the episode, but it would have been much, much better without Tessa. It was hard to believe Chuckles would go along with this, but even harder to believe he would involve his girlfriend (or that she would agree to it). -- Arlie

2000-03-06 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Ali Andrews <ali@jupiter23.demon.co.uk>)


Arlie wrote >I just didn't understand why he was there. Chakotay doesn't strike me as the >type to obsess on the past that way, and he didn't have the kind of guilt Harry >had. I think I heard somewhere that I scene was cut which showed Chakotay missing Janeway..........if that had been kept in parhaps his reson for being there would have been clearer. Allie x

2000-03-06 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> No, but it might have drawn away from the focus on Harry's angst. I think it was Lisa who pointed out that Tom would have been much more into facing Harry's problem with him, whereas Chakotay left Harry to work out his demons on his own (and with the Doc.) << Well, if you're going to argue that Chakotay makes better wallpaper than anyone else in the cast, how can I argue? :-D >>>I liked the episode, but it would have been much, much better without Tessa. >It was hard to believe Chuckles would go along with this, but even harder to >believe he would involve his girlfriend (or that she would agree to it). LOL, from a Chakotay fan's POV, it wasn't hard for me to see that she would adore him or be willing to do that for him. << That just makes no sense to me. It's a no-win scenario for her. If they succeed, her romance with Chuckles will never have been. If they fail, they're both killed or jailed. If she loves him, she'd be better off turning him in. He might be grateful for it, eventually. Worse, I can't see Chuckles letting her throw her career away, and possibly her life. Heck, why would he even trust her, when she has no stake in the mission? (Wait, what am I saying? This is Chuckes! :-) The only way I can make sense of it is that Chakotay is actually crazier than Harry, only he went nuts in a very quiet way. But Beltran didn't play it that way, though it would have been interesting if he had. -- Arlie

2000-03-07 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


>>> I'll concede "In the Flesh," but he was just excess baggage in "Timeless." > > oh, he only had more lines in it than Tim had in "Gravity"... << > > But line counts aren't everything. "Timeless" was a Harry episode, not a > Chuckles ep. > still, Beltran got the same exposure in it that Tim got in "Gravity". Only Beltran had several other strong eps in addition to "Timeless", for Tim "Gravity" was all he got all season... > >>> And > > he's the only one who hasn't had an episode (or even half an episode) this > > season. > > "One Small Step" sure looked like a half-ep to me... he even had more > lines in it than Tim in "Riddles"... << > > Nah. It was a Seven ep. And the rest of it was split between Paris and > Chuckles. Tommy (fortunately) had considerably less lines than Chucky > At most, he got one-third of the ep, and given the unfair share > Seven got, it's probably more like one-fourth. Seven's line count was pretty similar to Chucky's, though... > >> four, Tommy is a jerk who would value an object higher than a person > while Chucky is a thing without any emotions or passions << > > Don't mince words, Julianna, tell us what you *really* think.... <g> words are an inadequate medium to explain my level of disgust when these two are concerned... Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-07 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Arlie wrote: >> I could see how Tom and Harry would have done this, but I don't think that > Tom > would have been able to build another life for himself in the intervening time, > just based on his reactions to Caldic Prime, the Maquis, etc., << > > I think he could have. This time, after all, it wasn't his fault. Tommy and being able to build a life???? > But if he couldn't build a new life, the story would have made even more sense. > He'd have that much more reason to go back and try to change the past. > > I also think Tom is more likely to not have ethical problems with changing the > past. Chakotay would, I'd think. Particularly if he had made a new life, with > friends and lovers who had a stake in the status quo. Chucky is too impassive to have problems with anything > >> nor do I think > that he has had enough command experience to deal with the repercussions of > the decision, not to mention that I think Tom would have had a problem dealing > with the Doc. << > > But all that would just add to the drama. Hardly fatal flaws, story-wise. > > >> Chakotay's also very much a man who lives in the present, contrasted with > Harry > who became a man who couldn't in this episode. << > > Exactly. Which is why I just couldn't see him going along with this. > I doubt Chucky would have cared one way or the other. Harry probably manipulated him the way Seska could manipulate him, or Riley Frazier, or Kellin, or Annorax, or these Nemesis-aliens... > >> I also think that TPTB wussed out on Chakotay's motivation...they gave us > just > a *hint that Chakotay would do this for Janeway << > > I might be able to believe this if not for Tessa. she must have been an angel: the woman that never gets jealous... > >> So it was RB who sold this ep for me, but I liked GW's performance in it. > << > > I liked the episode, but it would have been much, much better without Tessa. > It was hard to believe that a woman would fall for Chucky? :-) > Chuckles would go along with this, but even harder to > believe he would involve his girlfriend (or that she would agree to it). > Maybe she was brain-damaged of some kind. After all, she liked Chucky... Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-07 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Arlie wrote: > > >> No, but it might have drawn away from the focus on Harry's angst. I think > it > was Lisa who pointed out that Tom would have been much more into facing Harry's > problem with him, whereas Chakotay left Harry to work out his demons on his own > (and with the Doc.) << > > Well, if you're going to argue that Chakotay makes better wallpaper than anyone > else in the cast, how can I argue? :-D > ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!! > >>>I liked the episode, but it would have been much, much better without Tessa. > > >It was hard to believe Chuckles would go along with this, but even harder to > >believe he would involve his girlfriend (or that she would agree to it). > > LOL, from a Chakotay fan's POV, it wasn't hard for me to see that she would > adore him or be willing to do that for him. << > > That just makes no sense to me. It's a no-win scenario for her. If they > succeed, her romance with Chuckles will never have been. If they fail, they're > both killed or jailed. If she loves him, she'd be better off turning him in. > He might be grateful for it, eventually. > or not... she probably began to see how impassive and cold he is and thought that way she could lose him without the loss hurting her... > Worse, I can't see Chuckles letting her throw her career away, and possibly her > life. Heck, why would he even trust her, when she has no stake in the mission? > (Wait, what am I saying? This is Chuckes! :-) > > The only way I can make sense of it is that Chakotay is actually crazier than > Harry, only he went nuts in a very quiet way. But Beltran didn't play it that > way, though it would have been interesting if he had. ... if he *could*.... Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-07 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


In article <20000306074142.01937.00001707@ng-dc1.aol.com>, > arlie88@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) writes: > > >>> No, but it might have drawn away from the focus on Harry's angst. I think > >it > >was Lisa who pointed out that Tom would have been much more into facing > >Harry's > >problem with him, whereas Chakotay left Harry to work out his demons on his > >own > >(and with the Doc.) << > > > >Well, if you're going to argue that Chakotay makes better wallpaper than > >anyone > >else in the cast, how can I argue? :-D > > LOL...interesting interpretation of what I said. Maybe I have been arguing > with Julianna too much about Tom and Tuvok in Gravity, but there's no way > Chakotay would be in Tuvok's face in that ep like Tom was, no - he'd just bore him to death with some New Age-crap and get on his nerves with his forced breathing *especially* after having climbed that cliff... > so I think Harry's > wrestling with his own demons would have been much different if it had been > Tom. > Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-07 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Doreen wrote: > Glad to hear that Lisa! > And lurker, I couldn't agree more...TPTB seem to have a couple of > characters(Doc, Seven) that they wish to develop and actors that they wish to > use to their best advantage. The rest of the characters are just slotted in as > plot devices some more so than others... > and the strengths of the actors ignored. especially the strengths of the really good ones... > I'd like to see them > take a few risks with their characters...what have they got to lose at this > point? they don't realize that they've already lost... Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-07 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Lisa wrote: > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in > message news:38BFD061.3C7D@hotmail.comTuvok.rules.. > > Jeez! Why would you want to watch "Alice"?????????? > > > > Dont worry Jules, theres a "Public Health Warning" sticker on the box <eg> > (Big sigh of relief) Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-07 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in message news:38C53979.62E@hotmail.comTuvok.rules... <<Snipped>> > Maybe she was brain-damaged of some kind. After all, she liked Chucky... :-(((((((( Lisa not brain damaged

2000-03-07 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueenn.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Lisa wrote: > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in > message news:38C53979.62E@hotmail.comTuvok.rules.. > > <<Snipped>> > > Maybe she was brain-damaged of some kind. After all, she liked Chucky... > > :-(((((((( > > Lisa > not brain damaged I know, you're just a member of the "Hug a tree"-community :-) Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-07 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <20000306074142.01937.00001707@ng-dc1.aol.com>, arlie88@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) writes: >>> No, but it might have drawn away from the focus on Harry's angst. I think >it >was Lisa who pointed out that Tom would have been much more into facing >Harry's >problem with him, whereas Chakotay left Harry to work out his demons on his >own >(and with the Doc.) << > >Well, if you're going to argue that Chakotay makes better wallpaper than >anyone >else in the cast, how can I argue? :-D LOL...interesting interpretation of what I said. Maybe I have been arguing with Julianna too much about Tom and Tuvok in Gravity, but there's no way Chakotay would be in Tuvok's face in that ep like Tom was, so I think Harry's wrestling with his own demons would have been much different if it had been Tom. > >>>>I liked the episode, but it would have been much, much better without >Tessa. > >>It was hard to believe Chuckles would go along with this, but even harder to >>believe he would involve his girlfriend (or that she would agree to it). > >LOL, from a Chakotay fan's POV, it wasn't hard for me to see that she would >adore him or be willing to do that for him. << > >That just makes no sense to me. It's a no-win scenario for her. If they >succeed, her romance with Chuckles will never have been. If they fail, >they're >both killed or jailed. If she loves him, she'd be better off turning him in. > >He might be grateful for it, eventually. Maybe, but she'd have to know that probably the most significant event in Chakotay's life was his time on Voyager and no matter what she does, she isn't going to change that or become more important than that. So she loves him enough to do what she sees as best for him--if they lose, they die, and as you said, if it's successful, she won't even have met him. > >Worse, I can't see Chuckles letting her throw her career away, and possibly >her >life. Heck, why would he even trust her, when she has no stake in the >mission? > (Wait, what am I saying? This is Chuckes! :-) LOL, he's used to dealing with strong-willed women who are going to do what they want regardless of how he feels about it...and he loves them anyway. As to the trust, they didn't tell us how long this relationship had been going on, but long enough to have it. > >The only way I can make sense of it is that Chakotay is actually crazier than >Harry, only he went nuts in a very quiet way. But Beltran didn't play it >that >way, though it would have been interesting if he had. > > >-- Arlie I agree here, but I think the emphasis was definitely on Harry's going nuts, and had they drawn it even farther with Chakotay, that would once again imply a lot stronger feelings for Janeway in particular than TPTB want to acknowledge. They aren't particularly concerned with Chakotay's feelings about much of anything, so that doesn't leave RB much to work with IMO. Doreen

2000-03-09 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> Maybe I have been arguing with Julianna too much about Tom and Tuvok in Gravity, but there's no way Chakotay would be in Tuvok's face in that ep like Tom was, << Unless the writers decided to make him. Chakotay, IMO, is among the most inconsistent of the Voyager characters. He does whatever the writers want for the plot. Though none of them are immune. >> so I think Harry's wrestling with his own demons would have been much different if it had been Tom. << Yeah, probably, but it could have been just as interesting, maybe more so. >> Maybe, but she'd have to know that probably the most significant event in Chakotay's life was his time on Voyager << I just didn't get that impression, from the script or the actors. >>>The only way I can make sense of it is that Chakotay is actually crazier than >Harry, only he went nuts in a very quiet way. But Beltran didn't play it >that >way, though it would have been interesting if he had. I agree here, but I think the emphasis was definitely on Harry's going nuts, and had they drawn it even farther with Chakotay, that would once again imply a lot stronger feelings for Janeway in particular than TPTB want to acknowledge. They aren't particularly concerned with Chakotay's feelings about much of anything, so that doesn't leave RB much to work with IMO. << I think he could have done more with it. And it wouldn't have had to involve Janeway. There are other possible motivations. Like, he was the captain of the Maquis ship. He used to feel as responsible for their welfare as Janeway does for the Starfleeters. And he failed them, big-time. But I didn't get the impression that Beltran gave any thought at all to Chakotay's motivation. -- Arlie

2000-03-10 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> I agree with you about Chakotay's character being inconsistently written. I think they just write BAD stories for Paris. << They really do, don't they? Makes me wonder if the writers have a love-hate relationship with Paris or something. On the one hand, they identify with him and like him and want to be him. OTOH, they also seem to resent him and his attitude and his advantages. >> Agreed, but as a Chak fan, this one was pretty interesting to me. << I thought it could have been, if it were better-acted. <g> >> Well this is one way they have been consistent with Chakotay. He has never had the angst over stranding the Maquis in the Delta Quadrant or forcing them into Star Fleet, perhaps because of the do-or-die aspect of a terrorist lifestyle . He seems fairly comfortable with that aspect of command, maybe because he usually comes down on the side of personal rights if it's at all possible. << Still, he is protective of his people. Or was, anyway, back when he had a personality. >>>But I didn't get the impression that Beltran gave any thought at all to >Chakotay's motivation. I guess as a J/Cer at heart, I didn't have to think about it. << But we haven't really seen any evidence of J/C since "Resolutions," years ago, so it's kind of a stretch to expect ordinary viewers to see it that way. >> I also didn't think Chakotay would give a rip if he thought StarFleet's policies concerning finding Voyager were wrong, and he certainly had engaged in terrorist acts for something that he believed was right, so it seemed normal for him to me. << Well, this being Chuckles, anything's possible, depending on which writer sat on his brain last. However, it wasn't just a question of Starfleet policies. The temporal prime directive exists for a reason, and I think it's something that Chakotay, and any other reasonable person, would agree is for the good of society. Harry's decision to break it was selfish, pure and simple. He was in so much pain that he would have done anything to end it, no matter the cost. (Much like Annorax in "Year of Hell," in fact.) But Chakotay's reasons weren't nearly as clear, and that hurt the story, IMO. -- Arlie

2000-03-10 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <20000308190601.15544.00002315@ng-de1.aol.com>, arlie88@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) writes: >>> Maybe I have been arguing >with Julianna too much about Tom and Tuvok in Gravity, but there's no way >Chakotay would be in Tuvok's face in that ep like Tom was, << > >Unless the writers decided to make him. Chakotay, IMO, is among the most >inconsistent of the Voyager characters. He does whatever the writers want >for >the plot. Though none of them are immune. I agree with you about Chakotay's character being inconsistently written. I think they just write BAD stories for Paris. > >>> so I think Harry's >wrestling with his own demons would have been much different if it had been >Tom. << > >Yeah, probably, but it could have been just as interesting, maybe more so. Agreed, but as a Chak fan, this one was pretty interesting to me. > >>> Maybe, but she'd have to know that probably the most significant event in >Chakotay's life was his time on Voyager << > >I just didn't get that impression, from the script or the actors. I did...from Chak's comment about it not being a happy reunion (or whatever) and his stroll along the bridge. > >>>>The only way I can make sense of it is that Chakotay is actually crazier >than >>Harry, only he went nuts in a very quiet way. But Beltran didn't play it >>that >>way, though it would have been interesting if he had. > >I agree here, but I think the emphasis was definitely on Harry's going nuts, >and had they drawn it even farther with Chakotay, that would once again imply >a >lot stronger feelings for Janeway in particular than TPTB want to >acknowledge. >They aren't particularly concerned with Chakotay's feelings about much of >anything, so that doesn't leave RB much to work with IMO. << > >I think he could have done more with it. And it wouldn't have had to involve >Janeway. There are other possible motivations. Like, he was the captain of >the Maquis ship. He used to feel as responsible for their welfare as Janeway >does for the Starfleeters. And he failed them, big-time. Well this is one way they have been consistent with Chakotay. He has never had the angst over stranding the Maquis in the Delta Quadrant or forcing them into Star Fleet, perhaps because of the do-or-die aspect of a terrorist lifestyle . He seems fairly comfortable with that aspect of command, maybe because he usually comes down on the side of personal rights if it's at all possible. I think the dinner scene was supposed to imply this failure but I don't think it came across that way, maybe because RB hasn't played Chakotay as flirtatious since season 4. > >But I didn't get the impression that Beltran gave any thought at all to >Chakotay's motivation. > > >-- Arlie > I guess as a J/Cer at heart, I didn't have to think about it. I also didn't think Chakotay would give a rip if he thought StarFleet's policies concerning finding Voyager were wrong, and he certainly had engaged in terrorist acts for something that he believed was right, so it seemed normal for him to me. Doreen

2000-03-14 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> though not that much better acted. RDM or RB does not make *that* much of a difference, it's just the other extreme... << But at least we wouldn't be wondering why Tom had even come along. Tom and Harry have an established closeness that would explain why Tom was willing to risk it all on such a long shot. And Robbie really doesn't get this kind of serious stuff very often. He's either cast as the jokester, or he's completely self-absorbed in his own angst. It would be nice to see him seriously dealing with something larger than himself. The only time he came close that I can recall is "Year of Hell," and the Paris-Chakotay scenes were written pretty poorly there. >>> But I didn't get the impression that Beltran gave any thought at all to > Chakotay's motivation. > Do you *ever* get the impression that he *does* give any thought to anything????? << No, not really. He strikes me as one of those actors who are all instinct, no intellect. (I'm not saying he's stupid, just that he acts with his heart, not his head.) -- Arlie

2000-03-14 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>>>> I agree with you about Chakotay's character being inconsistently written. >I >think they just write BAD stories for Paris. << > >They really do, don't they? Makes me wonder if the writers have a love-hate >relationship with Paris or something. On the one hand, they identify with >him >and like him and want to be him. OTOH, they also seem to resent him and his >attitude and his advantages. Maybe, but this totally baffles me....He's the right age and attitude to be appealing to those older and younger than he is...the character certainly exemplifies footloose, fancy free and daredevilish...how hard is that?? as opposed to a married Vulcan with a canon-set philosophy, a scrupulously hardworking, fresh-faced ensign, or a former Fleet terrorist/spiritual leader ??? I'd say Paris would be the easiest every time! << I think they had problems with him from the outset. He was supposed to be rebel, the bad boy, the womanizer. But they decided early on that that just wouldn't work. Heaven forbid anyone try to rebel against St. Janeway (unless they're evil, like Seska). And womanizing just doesn't go over very well these days. So they were left with nothing for Paris to do...and never really came up with anything workable. So Paris basically got zero development after the pilot. We found out just about everything we know about him in "Caretaker" -- his problems with his dad, the accident at Caldik Prime, his prison sentence, his problems with Chakotay. After that, there was nothing. They just didn't have any idea of where to go with him after that. >>Let's not go there...I just saw Emanations for the first time <g> Liked it but was thankful that Harry was the conduit through which the story was shown, because he really did nothing... << I *love* "Emanations." Garrett was excellent in that one. It would have been easy for "Emanations" to be boring, since there's little action, and what angst there is is pretty low-key. But Garrett gave Harry enough sincerity and charisma to carry the episode. Harry was so lost and confused at first. Then he got his bearings, and behaved like a trained Starfleet officer. His increasing desperation was compelling. Also loved his reaction when he realizes Hatil is being killed so he won't be a burden on his family. He's shocked and horrified, trying not to be judgmental, but unable to hide his feelings. Poor kid. Far, far worse things than that exist in this universe...but young Harry doesn't know that yet. Great scene with Janeway at the end, too. (And we get Tuvok rushing off to Sickbay with Janeway -- solely to offer her emotional support, near as I can tell.) One of my favorite episodes. And one that really couldn't be done after the first season, since even Harry Kim wouldn't be quite that out of his element after the first year or so. >> Not disagreeing here, just not certain that they would have made Tom's any clearer (particularly considering their track record for writing for Tom). << But they wouldn't have had to. Tom and Harry were established as close friends before this episode, as well in within the episode. That would be reason enough for Tom to go along. They have both offered their lives for each other before, so doing it again wouldn't have to be explained. -- Arlie

2000-03-15 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - ("EvilBill[AGQx]" <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in message... > Arlie wrote: > > > > I think most men would identify with Paris over the others. He's young, > > good-looking, > > umm... > My reaction exactly. <g> I for one do NOT identify with Tom Paris. I'm more intelligent and I'm monogamous, for a start. <eg> > > Harry's too > > ethnic, as well as a bit of a nerd. People always go for the flashy Han Solo > > type over the earnest young Luke Skywalker type. > > don't tell Evil Bill or he'll get even more depressed! :-) > LOL! Don't I know it! <g> Although, I still prefer Han Solo to Tom Paris! > > Rich, yes, young... well... he's losing hair... handsome...????? > Aren't bald men supposed to be sexy? hehe... -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/; ICQ number: 37464244 Remove KILL-THE-SPAM from my email address to respond. Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-15 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - ("EvilBill[AGQx]" <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk>)


"Arlie" <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message... > > I think most men would identify with Paris over the others. He's young, > good-looking, has a flashy job, a hot girlfriend, always has a comeback, etc. > Tuvok and Chuckles are too parental (as well as too ethnic). Harry's too > ethnic, as well as a bit of a nerd. People always go for the flashy Han Solo > type over the earnest young Luke Skywalker type. > That's what I'm afraid of :-((((( And as I said in response to Julianna, I do NOT identify with Tom Paris. I've got a *brain*, for a start. <eg> -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/; ICQ number: 37464244 Remove KILL-THE-SPAM from my email address to respond. Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-15 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Arlie wrote: > > >>>>> I agree with you about Chakotay's character being inconsistently written. > >I > >think they just write BAD stories for Paris. << > > > >They really do, don't they? Makes me wonder if the writers have a love-hate > >relationship with Paris or something. On the one hand, they identify with > >him > >and like him and want to be him. OTOH, they also seem to resent him and his > >attitude and his advantages. > > Maybe, but this totally baffles me....He's the right age and attitude to be > appealing to those older and younger than he is...the character certainly > exemplifies footloose, fancy free and daredevilish...how hard is that?? as > opposed to a married Vulcan with a canon-set philosophy, a scrupulously > hardworking, fresh-faced ensign, or a former Fleet terrorist/spiritual leader > ??? I'd say Paris would be the easiest every time! << > > I think they had problems with him from the outset. He was supposed to be > rebel, the bad boy, the womanizer. But they decided early on that that just > wouldn't work. Heaven forbid anyone try to rebel against St. Janeway (unless > they're evil, like Seska). And womanizing just doesn't go over very well these > days. So they were left with nothing for Paris to do...and never really came > up with anything workable. > > So Paris basically got zero development after the pilot. We found out just > about everything we know about him in "Caretaker" -- his problems with his dad, > the accident at Caldik Prime, his prison sentence, his problems with Chakotay. > After that, there was nothing. They just didn't have any idea of where to go > with him after that. > That's part of the problem with the character. Another one is the fact that from naive boy with *very* little knowledge in the scientific departments they transformed him into a guy with lots of knowledge in engineering etc. *and* that they turned the womanizer into a boyfriend... > >>Let's not go there...I just saw Emanations for the first time <g> Liked it > but > was thankful that Harry was the conduit through which the story was shown, > because he really did nothing... << > > I *love* "Emanations." Garrett was excellent in that one. It would have been > easy for "Emanations" to be boring, since there's little action, and what angst > there is is pretty low-key. But Garrett gave Harry enough sincerity and > charisma to carry the episode. I really liked him in that one as well :-) > Harry was so lost and confused at first. Then he got his bearings, and behaved > like a trained Starfleet officer. Yep. I absolutely love it how he realizes that this is a first contact-situation and he may already have said too much :-) > His increasing desperation was compelling. > Also loved his reaction when he realizes Hatil is being killed so he won't be a > burden on his family. He's shocked and horrified, trying not to be judgmental, > but unable to hide his feelings. Poor kid. Far, far worse things than that > exist in this universe...but young Harry doesn't know that yet. Great scene > with Janeway at the end, too. (And we get Tuvok rushing off to Sickbay with > Janeway -- solely to offer her emotional support, near as I can tell.) > > One of my favorite episodes. And one that really couldn't be done after the > first season, since even Harry Kim wouldn't be quite that out of his element > after the first year or so. That's true. > >> Not disagreeing here, just not certain that they would have made Tom's any > clearer (particularly considering their track record for writing for Tom). << > > But they wouldn't have had to. Tom and Harry were established as close friends > before this episode, as well in within the episode. That would be reason > enough for Tom to go along. They have both offered their lives for each other > before, so doing it again wouldn't have to be explained. well... it might have to be now that Tommy has started to bully even Harry (cow joke!) Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-15 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Arlie wrote: > > >>> >> I agree with you about Chakotay's character being inconsistently > written. I > > think they just write BAD stories for Paris. << > > > > They really do, don't they? Makes me wonder if the writers have a love-hate > > relationship with Paris or something. On the one hand, they identify with > him > > and like him and want to be him. > > who would want to be like *that* guy??????? << > > I think most men would identify with Paris over the others. He's young, > good-looking, umm... > has a flashy job, a hot girlfriend, always has a comeback, etc. > Tuvok and Chuckles are too parental (as well as too ethnic). Tuvok looks younger than some :-), and I wouldn't know that Beltran is ethnic if I hadn't read it. He doesn't really look it. > Harry's too > ethnic, as well as a bit of a nerd. People always go for the flashy Han Solo > type over the earnest young Luke Skywalker type. don't tell Evil Bill or he'll get even more depressed! :-) > >>> OTOH, they also seem to resent him and his > > attitude and his advantages. > > advantages?????????? << > > Yeah. The very things they admire, they also resent. The fact that he is so > charming and attractive to women. he is????????? > That he has a glamorous, chick-magnet kind > of job. That he always knows the right wine to order with dinner, and comes > from a family that can provide personal transporters and other things mere > mortals can't afford. Young, handsome, rich...good reasons for anyone to hate > him. <g> > Rich, yes, young... well... he's losing hair... handsome...????? Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-15 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Bozo the Evil Klown wrote: > > Arlie doth write thus: > > >>>> But I didn't get the impression that Beltran gave any thought at all to > >> Chakotay's motivation. > >> > > > >Do you *ever* get the impression that he *does* give any thought to > >anything????? << > > > >No, not really. He strikes me as one of those actors who are all instinct, > >no > >intellect. (I'm not saying he's stupid, just that he acts with his heart, > >not > >his head.) > > If only Beltran *would* act with *anything*.... his heart, his head, his > pancreas, his lymph nodes..... anything. agreed :-) > To paraphrase one of Claudia Christian's lines on B5, my father always told me > to not trust people with no personality. Most of Voyager's command staff have > no personality- and Captain Janeway has far too many. LOL! :-) Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-15 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


> "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in > message news:38CFBEB2.225B@hotmail.comTuvok.rules.. > > > > > > I guess as a J/Cer at heart, I didn't have to think about it. << > > > > > > But we haven't really seen any evidence of J/C since "Resolutions," > years ago, > > > so it's kind of a stretch to expect ordinary viewers to see it that way. > > > > > > > actually I think we've been *flooded* with implied J/C, all those "I'm > > consulting Chucky exclusively"-scenes, and the "I trust nobody as much > > as Chucky"-references etc. just made me *puke* > > Thats because of your dislike of the character/actor and nothing to do with > J/C which has pretty much been a moot point lately really as it doesnt seem > to exist anymore. *lately* maybe, but not for the past 2 or 3 years. And not until after "Voyager Conspiracy". She's practically drooling over him almost every time they are in a scene together! > > > > Probably yes, but then, we're used to Chucky not having an opinion of > > his own, so it didn't really bother me > > Watch "The Omega Directive" again. He had a point to make in that and he > made it and Janeway backed down. An episode which to me proved nothing > other than how badly used this character is and how good a first officer he > can be when allowed to do his job. The character *could* have been interesting if better written, but Beltran would never be a good actor. Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-15 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Arlie wrote: > > >> though not that much better acted. RDM or RB does not make *that* much > of a difference, it's just the other extreme... << > > But at least we wouldn't be wondering why Tom had even come along. Tom and > Harry have an established closeness that would explain why Tom was willing to > risk it all on such a long shot. > > And Robbie really doesn't get this kind of serious stuff very often. Which is probably a blessing... > He's > either cast as the jokester, or he's completely self-absorbed in his own angst. > It would be nice to see him seriously dealing with something larger than > himself. eek! Do you really want to see him fail so miserably??? > The only time he came close that I can recall is "Year of Hell," and > the Paris-Chakotay scenes were written pretty poorly there. > > >>> But I didn't get the impression that Beltran gave any thought at all to > > Chakotay's motivation. > > > > Do you *ever* get the impression that he *does* give any thought to > anything????? << > > No, not really. He strikes me as one of those actors who are all instinct, no > intellect. (I'm not saying he's stupid, just that he acts with his heart, not > his head.) He doesn't strike me as a particularly warm and caring person (i.e.: somebody with a heart) either... Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-15 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>)


Arlie wrote: > > >> I agree with you about Chakotay's character being inconsistently written. I > think they just write BAD stories for Paris. << > > They really do, don't they? Makes me wonder if the writers have a love-hate > relationship with Paris or something. On the one hand, they identify with him > and like him and want to be him. who would want to be like *that* guy??????? > OTOH, they also seem to resent him and his > attitude and his advantages. advantages?????????? > >> Agreed, but as a Chak fan, this one was pretty interesting to me. << > > I thought it could have been, if it were better-acted. <g> agreed > >> Well this is one way they have been consistent with Chakotay. He has never > had > the angst over stranding the Maquis in the Delta Quadrant or forcing them into > Star Fleet, perhaps because of the do-or-die aspect of a terrorist lifestyle . > He seems fairly comfortable with that aspect of command, maybe because he > usually comes down on the side of personal rights if it's at all possible. << > > Still, he is protective of his people. Or was, anyway, back when he had a > personality. > somewhat > >>>But I didn't get the impression that Beltran gave any thought at all to > >Chakotay's motivation. > > I guess as a J/Cer at heart, I didn't have to think about it. << > > But we haven't really seen any evidence of J/C since "Resolutions," years ago, > so it's kind of a stretch to expect ordinary viewers to see it that way. > actually I think we've been *flooded* with implied J/C, all those "I'm consulting Chucky exclusively"-scenes, and the "I trust nobody as much as Chucky"-references etc. just made me *puke* > >> I also didn't > think Chakotay would give a rip if he thought StarFleet's policies concerning > finding Voyager were wrong, and he certainly had engaged in terrorist acts for > something that he believed was right, so it seemed normal for him to me. << > > Well, this being Chuckles, anything's possible, depending on which writer sat > on his brain last. However, it wasn't just a question of Starfleet policies. > The temporal prime directive exists for a reason, and I think it's something > that Chakotay, and any other reasonable person, would agree is for the good of > society. Harry's decision to break it was selfish, pure and simple. He was in > so much pain that he would have done anything to end it, no matter the cost. > (Much like Annorax in "Year of Hell," in fact.) But Chakotay's reasons weren't > nearly as clear, and that hurt the story, IMO. > Probably yes, but then, we're used to Chucky not having an opinion of his own, so it didn't really bother me Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-15 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in message news:38CFBEB2.225B@hotmail.comTuvok.rules... > > > > I guess as a J/Cer at heart, I didn't have to think about it. << > > > > But we haven't really seen any evidence of J/C since "Resolutions," years ago, > > so it's kind of a stretch to expect ordinary viewers to see it that way. > > > > actually I think we've been *flooded* with implied J/C, all those "I'm > consulting Chucky exclusively"-scenes, and the "I trust nobody as much > as Chucky"-references etc. just made me *puke* Thats because of your dislike of the character/actor and nothing to do with J/C which has pretty much been a moot point lately really as it doesnt seem to exist anymore. > > > > > Probably yes, but then, we're used to Chucky not having an opinion of > his own, so it didn't really bother me Watch "The Omega Directive" again. He had a point to make in that and he made it and Janeway backed down. An episode which to me proved nothing other than how badly used this character is and how good a first officer he can be when allowed to do his job. Lisa

2000-03-15 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>> >> I agree with you about Chakotay's character being inconsistently written. I > think they just write BAD stories for Paris. << > > They really do, don't they? Makes me wonder if the writers have a love-hate > relationship with Paris or something. On the one hand, they identify with him > and like him and want to be him. who would want to be like *that* guy??????? << I think most men would identify with Paris over the others. He's young, good-looking, has a flashy job, a hot girlfriend, always has a comeback, etc. Tuvok and Chuckles are too parental (as well as too ethnic). Harry's too ethnic, as well as a bit of a nerd. People always go for the flashy Han Solo type over the earnest young Luke Skywalker type. >>> OTOH, they also seem to resent him and his > attitude and his advantages. advantages?????????? << Yeah. The very things they admire, they also resent. The fact that he is so charming and attractive to women. That he has a glamorous, chick-magnet kind of job. That he always knows the right wine to order with dinner, and comes from a family that can provide personal transporters and other things mere mortals can't afford. Young, handsome, rich...good reasons for anyone to hate him. <g> -- Arlie

2000-03-15 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (evilklowwn@aol.comedy)


Arlie doth write thus: >>>> But I didn't get the impression that Beltran gave any thought at all to >> Chakotay's motivation. >> > >Do you *ever* get the impression that he *does* give any thought to >anything????? << > >No, not really. He strikes me as one of those actors who are all instinct, >no >intellect. (I'm not saying he's stupid, just that he acts with his heart, >not >his head.) If only Beltran *would* act with *anything*.... his heart, his head, his pancreas, his lymph nodes..... anything. To paraphrase one of Claudia Christian's lines on B5, my father always told me to not trust people with no personality. Most of Voyager's command staff have no personality- and Captain Janeway has far too many. He-Who's-Cat-Wrestles-Shoes ***************************************** Janeway was rather dubious when Neelix volunteered to work as Ship's Counselor..... but there were a *lot* of grieving crewmembers in need of counseling after Neelix's catastrophic stint as a Security Officer.

2000-03-15 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>> To paraphrase one of Claudia Christian's lines on B5, my father always told me to not trust people with no personality. Most of Voyager's command staff have no personality- and Captain Janeway has far too many. << LOL! >> He-Who's-Cat-Wrestles-Shoes << He's getting ready to take on The Rock? -- Arlie

2000-03-16 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote: > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in > message... > > Arlie wrote: > > > > > > I think most men would identify with Paris over the others. He's young, > > > good-looking, > > > > umm... > > > > My reaction exactly. <g> > > I for one do NOT identify with Tom Paris. I'm more intelligent and I'm > monogamous, for a start. <eg> *and* a nice guy :-) > > > Harry's too > > > ethnic, as well as a bit of a nerd. People always go for the flashy Han > Solo > > > type over the earnest young Luke Skywalker type. > > > > don't tell Evil Bill or he'll get even more depressed! :-) > > > > LOL! Don't I know it! <g> > Although, I still prefer Han Solo to Tom Paris! > > > > > Rich, yes, young... well... he's losing hair... handsome...????? > > > > Aren't bald men supposed to be sexy? hehe... bald *men*, yes. Bald *boys*, OTOH... Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-16 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote: > "Arlie" <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message... > > > > I think most men would identify with Paris over the others. He's young, > > good-looking, has a flashy job, a hot girlfriend, always has a comeback, > etc. > > Tuvok and Chuckles are too parental (as well as too ethnic). Harry's too > > ethnic, as well as a bit of a nerd. People always go for the flashy Han > Solo > > type over the earnest young Luke Skywalker type. > > > > That's what I'm afraid of :-((((( that's just a cliche, don't believe it! Look at me? Do *I* fall for that guy????? > And as I said in response to Julianna, I do NOT identify with Tom Paris. > I've got a *brain*, for a start. <eg> *and* a heart :-) Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-17 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (BTS <deletethisbstevens@usxchange.net>)


TehTigre <TehTigre@nospam.net> wrote in article > Han Solo RULES!!!!!!!!! I always did like a scoundrel who was a gentleman > underneath it all. Or is that a gentleman who is a SCOUNDREL underneath it > all ? ..... *imagining the possibilities* > > Mic Methinks you're dwelling a bit much on what a guy's got underneath there babe... -- later... b.t.s. occassionally, I'm callous and strange - btvs

2000-03-17 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Silverhawk <silverhawk@force10.eidosnet.co.uk>)


>> though not that much better acted. RDM or RB does not make >> *that* much of a difference, it's just the other extreme... > > But at least we wouldn't be wondering why Tom had even come > along. Tom and Harry have an established closeness that > would explain why Tom was willing to risk it all on such a long > shot. Yep, I'd buy that. Alternate Tom did the same for Harry in "Non Sequitur". Silverhawk -- "For we are the music makers, and the dreamers of dreams."

2000-03-17 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Silverhawk <silverhawk@force10.eidosnet.co.uk>)


>> To paraphrase one of Claudia Christian's lines on B5, my >> father always told me to not trust people with no personality. > > She should talk...personality-wise, she makes Chakotay look > outgoing. Hey! No dissing Claudia >:-( Silverhawk -- "For we are the music makers, and the dreamers of dreams."

2000-03-17 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (TehTigre <TehTigre@nospam.net>)


Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:8arook$3esg$1@www.univie.ac.at... > > EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote: > > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in > > message... > > > Arlie wrote: > > > > > > > > I think most men would identify with Paris over the others. He's > young, > > > > good-looking, > > > > > > umm... > > > > > > > My reaction exactly. <g> > > > > I for one do NOT identify with Tom Paris. I'm more intelligent and I'm > > monogamous, for a start. <eg> > > *and* a nice guy :-) > > > > > Harry's too > > > > ethnic, as well as a bit of a nerd. People always go for the flashy > Han > > Solo > > > > type over the earnest young Luke Skywalker type. > > > > > > don't tell Evil Bill or he'll get even more depressed! :-) > > > > > > > LOL! Don't I know it! <g> > > Although, I still prefer Han Solo to Tom Paris! Han Solo RULES!!!!!!!!! I always did like a scoundrel who was a gentleman underneath it all. Or is that a gentleman who is a SCOUNDREL underneath it all ? ..... *imagining the possibilities* Mic

2000-03-17 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - ("EvilBill[AGQx]" <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message... > > EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote: > > "Arlie" <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message... > > > > > > I think most men would identify with Paris over the others. He's young, > > > good-looking, has a flashy job, a hot girlfriend, always has a comeback, > > etc. > > > Tuvok and Chuckles are too parental (as well as too ethnic). Harry's > too > > > ethnic, as well as a bit of a nerd. People always go for the flashy Han > > Solo > > > type over the earnest young Luke Skywalker type. > > > > That's what I'm afraid of :-((((( > > that's just a cliche, don't believe it! Look at me? Do *I* fall for that > guy????? > Cliches may be cliches, but they still contain some measure of truth... > > And as I said in response to Julianna, I do NOT identify with Tom Paris. > > I've got a *brain*, for a start. <eg> > > *and* a heart :-) > *blush* -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/; ICQ number: 37464244 Remove KILL-THE-SPAM from my email address to respond. Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-17 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - ("EvilBill[AGQx]" <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:8arook$3esg$1@www.univie.ac.at... > > EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote: > > > > I for one do NOT identify with Tom Paris. I'm more intelligent and I'm > > monogamous, for a start. <eg> > > *and* a nice guy :-) > All these compliments... you must want something. <g> > > > > Aren't bald men supposed to be sexy? hehe... > > bald *men*, yes. Bald *boys*, OTOH... > LOL! -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/; ICQ number: 37464244 Remove KILL-THE-SPAM from my email address to respond. Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-17 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>> I think most men would identify with Paris over the others. He's young, > good-looking, umm... << Well, relatively. In most people's opinions. <g> >>> Tuvok and Chuckles are too parental (as well as too ethnic). Tuvok looks younger than some :-), << How old he *looks* has nothing to do with it. Personality-wise, he's an older man. He acts parental, reprimanding Harry on the bridge, mentoring B'Elanna, trying rein in Tom. The voice of the establishment, rather than the young rebel. >> and I wouldn't know that Beltran is ethnic if I hadn't read it. He doesn't really look it. << Maybe Beltran doesn't, but Chakotay does. That tattoo is kinda hard to miss. <g> >>> Harry's too > ethnic, as well as a bit of a nerd. People always go for the flashy Han Solo > type over the earnest young Luke Skywalker type. don't tell Evil Bill or he'll get even more depressed! :-) << Well, the kind of guy you go for in fiction/fantasy is not necessarily the kind of guy you go for in real life. >>> Yeah. The very things they admire, they also resent. The fact that he is so > charming and attractive to women. he is????????? << Well, not *all* women, obviously! >> Rich, yes, young... well... he's losing hair... handsome...????? << Well, when the time comes, the Doc can give Tom some hair, just like he gave Seven and Lyndsay! -- Arlie

2000-03-17 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>> He's > either cast as the jokester, or he's completely self-absorbed in his own angst. > It would be nice to see him seriously dealing with something larger than > himself. eek! Do you really want to see him fail so miserably??? << Well, I'm hoping he won't. He really hasn't had the chance...and they all deserve at least a chance. >> He doesn't strike me as a particularly warm and caring person (i.e.: somebody with a heart) either... << Well, his co-stars seem to like him well enough, so he can't be a complete jerk. -- Arlie

2000-03-18 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (TehTigre <TehTigre@nospam.net>)


BTS <deletethisbstevens@usxchange.net> wrote in message news:01bf9059$978aac40$dbe62fd8@bs... > > > TehTigre <TehTigre@nospam.net> wrote in article > > > > Han Solo RULES!!!!!!!!! I always did like a scoundrel who was a > gentleman > > underneath it all. Or is that a gentleman who is a SCOUNDREL underneath > it > > all ? ..... *imagining the possibilities* > > > > Mic > > Methinks you're dwelling a bit much on what a guy's got underneath there > babe... *eyebrow* ^ .... hmmm.... you do know me quite well, don't you, dear???? <veg>

2000-03-18 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - ("EvilBill[AGQx]" <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:8aufpr$348e$1@www.univie.ac.at... > > Arlie <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote: > > > > Well, relatively. In most people's opinions. <g> > > how about: "some"? Evil Bill wouldn't want to look like Tommy either :-) > I would not! -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/; ICQ number: 37464244 Remove KILL-THE-SPAM from my email address to respond. Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-18 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - ("EvilBill[AGQx]" <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:8aufl3$4him$1@www.univie.ac.at... > > EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote: > > > > All these compliments... you must want something. <g> > > Yes: more blood wine! :-) > Is that all? You mean you don't want my body, my heart, my mind and my soul? <g> > > > > > > bald *men*, yes. Bald *boys*, OTOH... > > > > LOL! > > Thought you might like that :-) > Except for the fact that I am *younger* than Tommy :( -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/; ICQ number: 37464244 Remove KILL-THE-SPAM from my email address to respond. Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-18 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>> Well, I'm hoping he won't. He really hasn't had the chance...and they all > deserve at least a chance. I don't have much hope for Tommy - remember the cow-joke, the barometer-comment and the TV-set scene?? << Well, that's why it would be so much fun to see him be genuinely altruistic. It's always interesting to see a different side of a familiar character. The kick-@$$ Harry of "Killing Game," the fun-loving Tuvok of "Riddles." Why not serious Tom Paris? >>> >> He doesn't strike me as a particularly warm and caring person (i.e.: > somebody with a heart) either... << > > Well, his co-stars seem to like him well enough, so he can't be a complete > jerk. > Are you talking about Tommy or RDM here? :-) << Actually, I was talking about Robert Beltran! -- Arlie

2000-03-18 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>> The voice of the establishment, rather than the young > rebel. The reliable one, rather than the thoughtless, shallow jerk... << True. Reliability isn't a terribly glamorous trait, I fear. >>> Well, when the time comes, the Doc can give Tom some hair, just like he gave > Seven and Lyndsay! he just can't do it for himself... :-) << Maybe he doesn't want to. B'Elanna has a bald spot fetish, perhaps? (Or Harry. He liked Lyndsay bald, didn't he? ;-) -- Arlie

2000-03-18 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote: > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message... > > > > EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote: > > > "Arlie" <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message... > > > > > > > > I think most men would identify with Paris over the others. He's > young, > > > > good-looking, has a flashy job, a hot girlfriend, always has a > comeback, > > > etc. > > > > Tuvok and Chuckles are too parental (as well as too ethnic). Harry's > > too > > > > ethnic, as well as a bit of a nerd. People always go for the flashy > Han > > > Solo > > > > type over the earnest young Luke Skywalker type. > > > > > > That's what I'm afraid of :-((((( > > > > that's just a cliche, don't believe it! Look at me? Do *I* fall for that > > guy????? > > > > Cliches may be cliches, but they still contain some measure of truth... but you shouldn't overestimate it... > > > And as I said in response to Julianna, I do NOT identify with Tom Paris. > > > I've got a *brain*, for a start. <eg> > > > > *and* a heart :-) > > > > *blush* :-) Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-18 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote: > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:8arook$3esg$1@www.univie.ac.at... > > > > EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > > I for one do NOT identify with Tom Paris. I'm more intelligent and I'm > > > monogamous, for a start. <eg> > > > > *and* a nice guy :-) > > > > All these compliments... you must want something. <g> Yes: more blood wine! :-) > > > Aren't bald men supposed to be sexy? hehe... > > > > bald *men*, yes. Bald *boys*, OTOH... > > > > LOL! Thought you might like that :-) Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-18 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


Arlie <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote: > >>> I think most men would identify with Paris over the others. He's young, > > good-looking, > > umm... << > > Well, relatively. In most people's opinions. <g> how about: "some"? Evil Bill wouldn't want to look like Tommy either :-) > >>> Tuvok and Chuckles are too parental (as well as too ethnic). > > Tuvok looks younger than some :-), << > > How old he *looks* has nothing to do with it. Personality-wise, he's an older > man. He acts parental, reprimanding Harry on the bridge, mentoring B'Elanna, > trying rein in Tom. He does that???????? > The voice of the establishment, rather than the young > rebel. The reliable one, rather than the thoughtless, shallow jerk... > >> and I wouldn't know that Beltran is > ethnic if I hadn't read it. He doesn't really look it. << > > Maybe Beltran doesn't, but Chakotay does. That tattoo is kinda hard to miss. > <g> LOL! > >>> Harry's too > > ethnic, as well as a bit of a nerd. People always go for the flashy Han Solo > > type over the earnest young Luke Skywalker type. > > don't tell Evil Bill or he'll get even more depressed! :-) << > > Well, the kind of guy you go for in fiction/fantasy is not necessarily the kind > of guy you go for in real life. at least not always... > >>> Yeah. The very things they admire, they also resent. The fact that he is > so > > charming and attractive to women. > > he is????????? << > > Well, not *all* women, obviously! *very* obviously :-) > >> Rich, yes, young... well... he's losing hair... handsome...????? << > > Well, when the time comes, the Doc can give Tom some hair, just like he gave > Seven and Lyndsay! he just can't do it for himself... :-) Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-18 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


Arlie <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote: > >>> He's > > either cast as the jokester, or he's completely self-absorbed in his own > angst. > > It would be nice to see him seriously dealing with something larger than > > himself. > > eek! Do you really want to see him fail so miserably??? << > > Well, I'm hoping he won't. He really hasn't had the chance...and they all > deserve at least a chance. I don't have much hope for Tommy - remember the cow-joke, the barometer-comment and the TV-set scene?? > >> He doesn't strike me as a particularly warm and caring person (i.e.: > somebody with a heart) either... << > > Well, his co-stars seem to like him well enough, so he can't be a complete > jerk. > Are you talking about Tommy or RDM here? :-) Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-20 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>>>No, not really. He strikes me as one of those actors who are all instinct, >no >intellect. (I'm not saying he's stupid, just that he acts with his heart, >not >his head.) That's an interesting observation Arlie and from what I've read from RB, I couldn't say. He has said quite a bit about how he visualized characters he has played on stage and in a couple of his films, but I haven't read about it in terms of Voyager, perhaps because it is still in progress (or because of the way the writers keep changing everyone's motivation etc.) << One of the reasons I came to that conclusion is that Beltran complains so much about how much he hates science fiction. It's not realistic, there's no way to connect to it, etc. To me, that suggests he's one of those actors who tries to use his own feelings and experiences to create a character. Generally a method considered better suited for contemporary characters, rather than historical (or science fictional). -- Arlie

2000-03-20 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (BTS <deletethisbstevens@usxchange.net>)


TehTigre <TehTigre@nospam.net> wrote in article BTS said > > Methinks you're dwelling a bit much on what a guy's got underneath there > > babe... > > *eyebrow* ^ .... hmmm.... you do know me quite well, don't you, dear???? > <veg> Well, as well as is permitted...<g> -- later... b.t.s. occassionally, I'm callous and strange - btvs

2000-03-20 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <20000314171721.15547.00004349@ng-de1.aol.com>, arlie88@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) writes: >>>> But I didn't get the impression that Beltran gave any thought at all to >> Chakotay's motivation. >> > >Do you *ever* get the impression that he *does* give any thought to >anything????? << > >No, not really. He strikes me as one of those actors who are all instinct, >no >intellect. (I'm not saying he's stupid, just that he acts with his heart, >not >his head.) > > That's an interesting observation Arlie and from what I've read from RB, I couldn't say. He has said quite a bit about how he visualized characters he has played on stage and in a couple of his films, but I haven't read about it in terms of Voyager, perhaps because it is still in progress (or because of the way the writers keep changing everyone's motivation etc.) Doreen.

2000-03-20 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <20000314180322.15547.00004364@ng-de1.aol.com>, arlie88@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) writes: >>>>>> I agree with you about Chakotay's character being inconsistently >written. >>I >>think they just write BAD stories for Paris. << >> >>They really do, don't they? Makes me wonder if the writers have a love-hate >>relationship with Paris or something. On the one hand, they identify with >>him >>and like him and want to be him. OTOH, they also seem to resent him and his >>attitude and his advantages. > >Maybe, but this totally baffles me....He's the right age and attitude to be >appealing to those older and younger than he is...the character certainly >exemplifies footloose, fancy free and daredevilish...how hard is that?? as >opposed to a married Vulcan with a canon-set philosophy, a scrupulously >hardworking, fresh-faced ensign, or a former Fleet terrorist/spiritual leader >??? I'd say Paris would be the easiest every time! << > >I think they had problems with him from the outset. He was supposed to be >rebel, the bad boy, the womanizer. But they decided early on that that just >wouldn't work. Heaven forbid anyone try to rebel against St. Janeway (unless >they're evil, like Seska). This is certainly true. They're willing to make Janeway somewhat wrong but noone is supposed to oppose her in any way. Those Seven catfights might have been more interesting if they had been with another member of the crew every now and then, and Paris would have been a good choice. And womanizing just doesn't go over very well >these >days. So they were left with nothing for Paris to do...and never really came >up with anything workable. Yes, but that still doesn't explain some of the flatness when they do write something for Paris. He's a people lover and an extrovert--being willing to jump into any situation would be a given. > >So Paris basically got zero development after the pilot. I agree here too. That's why I liked P/T when Jeri Taylor was producing...you saw facets of their character that you hadn't seen before and parts of their personalities that you normally didn't. We found out just >about everything we know about him in "Caretaker" -- his problems with his >dad, >the accident at Caldik Prime, his prison sentence, his problems with >Chakotay. >After that, there was nothing. They just didn't have any idea of where to go >with him after that. I agree here too, but tell me that Tom wouldn't be gritting his teeth over being an ensign. Yes, he could accept the punishment for a decision and believe that his actions were worthwhile (and why they didn't contrast this with his time in the Maquis/his sneering attitude toward Chakotay's motivation is beyond me...it sure would indicate some character development) but it had to be difficult in his shipboard life. If it wasn't, then couldn't we see that too...that the crew understood and accepted that? > >>>Let's not go there...I just saw Emanations for the first time <g> Liked it >but >was thankful that Harry was the conduit through which the story was shown, >because he really did nothing... << > >I *love* "Emanations." Garrett was excellent in that one. It would have >been >easy for "Emanations" to be boring, since there's little action, and what >angst >there is is pretty low-key. But Garrett gave Harry enough sincerity and >charisma to carry the episode. Should I just tell you here that I got the impression that GW gave no real thought to his character's motivation? <VBG> > >Harry was so lost and confused at first. Then he got his bearings, and >behaved >like a trained Starfleet officer. His increasing desperation was compelling. > >Also loved his reaction when he realizes Hatil is being killed so he won't be >a >burden on his family. He's shocked and horrified, trying not to be >judgmental, >but unable to hide his feelings. Poor kid. Ok, this is when Harry woke up in the episode for me, and yes, this worked. Far, far worse things than that >exist in this universe...but young Harry doesn't know that yet. Great scene >with Janeway at the end, too. Yes, and one that we wouldn't get now. (And we get Tuvok rushing off to Sickbay with >Janeway -- solely to offer her emotional support, near as I can tell.) Or wondering if there was a security problem....he had had a few by this point! It's ok, Assimilation Barbie would have been singing with the Doc in Season 6 Sick Bay so all would be well.... > >One of my favorite episodes. And one that really couldn't be done after the >first season, since even Harry Kim wouldn't be quite that out of his element >after the first year or so. Yes, that was the charm of it, and it does indicate development for Harry that has been well done. > >>> Not disagreeing here, just not certain that they would have made Tom's any >clearer (particularly considering their track record for writing for Tom). ><< > >But they wouldn't have had to. Tom and Harry were established as close >friends >before this episode, as well in within the episode. That would be reason >enough for Tom to go along. They have both offered their lives for each >other >before, so doing it again wouldn't have to be explained. No, but I saw the motivation in Timeless as entirely different. Harry's guilt over his mistake came from his lack of command experience (Tom would have completely understood the guilt from the Caldic Prime thing) blaming himself for the wrong decision. Chakotay's command experience was the contrast (maybe the reason they didn't use Tom because he's now an ensign...) and the way both he and the Doc could pull Harry out of his funk, not to mention the reason he could somewhat get on with his life. Perhaps because I see loyalty as being Chakotay's outstanding characteristic (Tessa mentioning his leaving his heart on Voyager...his conversation with LaForge about doing what he had to---and Geordi understanding, his hesitations with Tessa because of a loyalty to her also) I didn't have the problem you did. IMO, Chakotay is passionately loyal to what he believes is right, and values loyalty more than just about anything else in his relationships (thus Janeway is always manipulating this) and unfortunately, the only person who responds in kind is B'Elanna. Doreen

2000-03-20 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <38CFBEB2.225B@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>, Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> writes: <<SNIP>> >> >> I also didn't >> think Chakotay would give a rip if he thought StarFleet's policies >concerning >> finding Voyager were wrong, and he certainly had engaged in terrorist acts >for >> something that he believed was right, so it seemed normal for him to me. << >> >> Well, this being Chuckles, anything's possible, depending on which writer >sat >> on his brain last. However, it wasn't just a question of Starfleet >policies. >> The temporal prime directive exists for a reason, and I think it's >something >> that Chakotay, and any other reasonable person, would agree is for the good >of >> society. Harry's decision to break it was selfish, pure and simple. He >was in >> so much pain that he would have done anything to end it, no matter the >cost. >> (Much like Annorax in "Year of Hell," in fact.) But Chakotay's reasons >weren't >> nearly as clear, and that hurt the story, IMO. >> > > >Probably yes, but then, we're used to Chucky not having an opinion of >his own, so it didn't really bother me Unfortunately Julianna, this seem to be true for both the second and third in command...now if we want Seven's or the Doc's opinion on anything... Doreen

2000-03-20 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <hiPz4.6991$921.170863@news3.cableinet.net>, "Lisa" <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> writes: >"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in >message news:38CFBEB2.225B@hotmail.comTuvok.rules... >> > >> > I guess as a J/Cer at heart, I didn't have to think about it. << >> > >> > But we haven't really seen any evidence of J/C since "Resolutions," >years ago, >> > so it's kind of a stretch to expect ordinary viewers to see it that way. >> > >> >> actually I think we've been *flooded* with implied J/C, all those "I'm >> consulting Chucky exclusively"-scenes, and the "I trust nobody as much >> as Chucky"-references etc. just made me *puke* > >Thats because of your dislike of the character/actor and nothing to do with >J/C which has pretty much been a moot point lately really as it doesnt seem >to exist anymore. > >> > >> >> >> Probably yes, but then, we're used to Chucky not having an opinion of >> his own, so it didn't really bother me > >Watch "The Omega Directive" again. He had a point to make in that and he >made it and Janeway backed down. An episode which to me proved nothing >other than how badly used this character is and how good a first officer he >can be when allowed to do his job. > Add in his reservations about Seven, Scorpion (when his feelings about the Borg were clear), Equinox 2, and the goo crew in Course Oblivion. Of course they don't let Tuvok do his job either... Doreen

2000-03-20 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <38CFF9E9.5386@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>, Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> writes: >> "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> wrote in >> message news:38CFBEB2.225B@hotmail.comTuvok.rules.. >> > > >> > > I guess as a J/Cer at heart, I didn't have to think about it. << >> > > >> > > But we haven't really seen any evidence of J/C since "Resolutions," >> years ago, >> > > so it's kind of a stretch to expect ordinary viewers to see it that >way. >> > > >> > >> > actually I think we've been *flooded* with implied J/C, all those "I'm >> > consulting Chucky exclusively"-scenes, and the "I trust nobody as much >> > as Chucky"-references etc. just made me *puke* >> >> Thats because of your dislike of the character/actor and nothing to do with >> J/C which has pretty much been a moot point lately really as it doesnt seem >> to exist anymore. > >*lately* maybe, but not for the past 2 or 3 years. And not until after >"Voyager Conspiracy". She's practically drooling over him almost every >time they are in a scene together! > >> > >> > Probably yes, but then, we're used to Chucky not having an opinion of >> > his own, so it didn't really bother me >> >> Watch "The Omega Directive" again. He had a point to make in that and he >> made it and Janeway backed down. An episode which to me proved nothing >> other than how badly used this character is and how good a first officer he >> can be when allowed to do his job. > >The character *could* have been interesting if better written, but >Beltran would never be a good actor. > In your opinion Julianna...he's the only reason some of us still tune in. You don't inspire a group of fans who watch through a whole mess of crap like: "let's examine Seven's maternal instinct today" for a minute of "yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, I'll be right back ma'am" without talent...dimples only carry you so far <G> That scene in Omega Directive was the point, and was what made it one of my favorite episodes, despite all the Seven is GOD inclinations. Doreen

2000-03-21 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com> wrote in message: r4sedsohjjef8dqmn94722rkkrs4d4rbmp@4ax.com... > On 20 Mar 2000 12:18:04 GMT, arlie88@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) wrote: > > >One of the reasons I came to that conclusion is that Beltran complains so much > >about how much he hates science fiction. It's not realistic, there's no way to > >connect to it, etc. To me, that suggests he's one of those actors who tries to > >use his own feelings and experiences to create a character. Generally a method > >considered better suited for contemporary characters, rather than historical > >(or science fictional). > > And then there are those of us that simply think that Beltran > simply cannot act, and this is nothing more than a pretty damned fine > smoke-screen to cover up his inability to act. > > I've seen his roles in "Night of the Comet" and "Lois and > Clark: The New Adventures of Superman" -- and they're just as wooden > as our lovely cigar store indian XO. and those of us need your support! :-) Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-21 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (EvilBill <SPAM-SUCKS@I-RULE-THE-UNIVERSE.com>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote in > message: xiAA4.374$X4.8673@nnrp4.clara.net... > > > > Is that all? You mean you don't want my body, my heart, my mind and my soul? > > <g> > > one thing at the time. Right now I want the blood wine��� <vbeg> > Oh, Ok then. *hands over a bottle of blood wine and crawls into the sulk corner to sulk* > > > > Except for the fact that I am *younger* than Tommy :( > > but obviously more mature than he is > Don't tell me, you want the kanaar as well? ;-) -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/ E-mail: evilbill@nutter.swinternet.co.uk. ICQ number: 37464244 Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-21 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


Arlie <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message: 20000317195019.17302.00005378@ng-xe1.aol.com... > >>> Well, I'm hoping he won't. He really hasn't had the chance...and they all > > deserve at least a chance. > > I don't have much hope for Tommy - remember the cow-joke, the > barometer-comment and the TV-set scene?? << > > Well, that's why it would be so much fun to see him be genuinely altruistic. hard to imagine, though... > It's always interesting to see a different side of a familiar character. The > kick-@$$ Harry of "Killing Game," the fun-loving Tuvok of "Riddles." Why not > serious Tom Paris? because he's too shallow to be serious. He'd have to grow a sense of responsibility and duty etc. first > >>> >> He doesn't strike me as a particularly warm and caring person (i.e.: > > somebody with a heart) either... << > > > > Well, his co-stars seem to like him well enough, so he can't be a complete > > jerk. > > > > Are you talking about Tommy or RDM here? :-) << > > Actually, I was talking about Robert Beltran! > Oh! Well... that guy I can't really imagine as being nice and warm and caring... Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-21 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


Arlie <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message: 20000317195334.17302.00005379@ng-xe1.aol.com... > >>> The voice of the establishment, rather than the young > > rebel. > > The reliable one, rather than the thoughtless, shallow jerk... << > > True. Reliability isn't a terribly glamorous trait, I fear. but an important one :-) > >>> Well, when the time comes, the Doc can give Tom some hair, just like he > gave > > Seven and Lyndsay! > > he just can't do it for himself... :-) << > > Maybe he doesn't want to. B'Elanna has a bald spot fetish, perhaps? (Or > Harry. He liked Lyndsay bald, didn't he? ;-) LOL! You're right! Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-21 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote in message: yhAA4.373$X4.8980@nnrp4.clara.net... > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:8aufpr$348e$1@www.univie.ac.at... > > > > Arlie <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote: > > > > > > Well, relatively. In most people's opinions. <g> > > > > how about: "some"? Evil Bill wouldn't want to look like Tommy either :-) > > > > I would not! see? I *knew*! :-) Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-21 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote in message: xiAA4.374$X4.8673@nnrp4.clara.net... > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:8aufl3$4him$1@www.univie.ac.at... > > > > EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > > All these compliments... you must want something. <g> > > > > Yes: more blood wine! :-) > > > > Is that all? You mean you don't want my body, my heart, my mind and my soul? > <g> one thing at the time. Right now I want the blood wine��� <vbeg> > > > > bald *men*, yes. Bald *boys*, OTOH... > > > > > > LOL! > > > > Thought you might like that :-) > > > > Except for the fact that I am *younger* than Tommy :( but obviously more mature than he is Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-21 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:8b8m4t$5aci$1@www.univie.ac.at... > > Arlie <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message: > 20000317195019.17302.00005378@ng-xe1.aol.com... > > >>> Well, I'm hoping he won't. He really hasn't had the chance...and they > all > > > deserve at least a chance. > > > > I don't have much hope for Tommy - remember the cow-joke, the > > barometer-comment and the TV-set scene?? << > > > > Well, that's why it would be so much fun to see him be genuinely > altruistic. > > hard to imagine, though... > > > It's always interesting to see a different side of a familiar character. > The > > kick-@$$ Harry of "Killing Game," the fun-loving Tuvok of "Riddles." Why > not > > serious Tom Paris? > > because he's too shallow to be serious. He'd have to grow a sense of > responsibility and duty etc. first > > > >>> >> He doesn't strike me as a particularly warm and caring person > (i.e.: > > > somebody with a heart) either... << > > > > > > Well, his co-stars seem to like him well enough, so he can't be a > complete > > > jerk. > > > > > > > Are you talking about Tommy or RDM here? :-) << > > > > Actually, I was talking about Robert Beltran! > > > > Oh! Well... that guy I can't really imagine as being nice and warm and > caring... > I'm sure you could if you tried really, really hard, crossed all your fingers for luck and wished upon a star and then you may see what we see <g> Lisa

2000-03-21 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


DTaejdH <dtaejdh@aol.com> wrote in message: 20000319230427.03444.00000661@nso-cl.aol.com... > In article <38CFBEB2.225B@hotmail.comTuvok.rules>, Julianna Feigl > <glacierqueen.NO.spam@hotmail.comTuvok.rules> writes: > > <<SNIP>> > > >> >> I also didn't > >> think Chakotay would give a rip if he thought StarFleet's policies > >concerning > >> finding Voyager were wrong, and he certainly had engaged in terrorist acts > >for > >> something that he believed was right, so it seemed normal for him to me. << > >> > >> Well, this being Chuckles, anything's possible, depending on which writer > >sat > >> on his brain last. However, it wasn't just a question of Starfleet > >policies. > >> The temporal prime directive exists for a reason, and I think it's > >something > >> that Chakotay, and any other reasonable person, would agree is for the good > >of > >> society. Harry's decision to break it was selfish, pure and simple. He > >was in > >> so much pain that he would have done anything to end it, no matter the > >cost. > >> (Much like Annorax in "Year of Hell," in fact.) But Chakotay's reasons > >weren't > >> nearly as clear, and that hurt the story, IMO. > >> > > > > > >Probably yes, but then, we're used to Chucky not having an opinion of > >his own, so it didn't really bother me > > Unfortunately Julianna, this seem to be true for both the second and third in > command...now if we want Seven's or the Doc's opinion on anything... > the third in command? There is such a person? When exactly was the last time you saw *him*????? Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-21 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com>)


On 20 Mar 2000 12:18:04 GMT, arlie88@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) wrote: >One of the reasons I came to that conclusion is that Beltran complains so much >about how much he hates science fiction. It's not realistic, there's no way to >connect to it, etc. To me, that suggests he's one of those actors who tries to >use his own feelings and experiences to create a character. Generally a method >considered better suited for contemporary characters, rather than historical >(or science fictional). And then there are those of us that simply think that Beltran simply cannot act, and this is nothing more than a pretty damned fine smoke-screen to cover up his inability to act. I've seen his roles in "Night of the Comet" and "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman" -- and they're just as wooden as our lovely cigar store indian XO. -- -=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli (((\ \> /_1 ` (\\\\ \_/ / -=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- \ _/ / /

2000-03-21 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Merrick Baldelli" <mbaldelli@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:r4sedsohjjef8dqmn94722rkkrs4d4rbmp@4ax.com... > On 20 Mar 2000 12:18:04 GMT, arlie88@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) wrote: > > >One of the reasons I came to that conclusion is that Beltran complains so much > >about how much he hates science fiction. It's not realistic, there's no way to > >connect to it, etc. To me, that suggests he's one of those actors who tries to > >use his own feelings and experiences to create a character. Generally a method > >considered better suited for contemporary characters, rather than historical > >(or science fictional). > > And then there are those of us that simply think that Beltran > simply cannot act, and this is nothing more than a pretty damned fine > smoke-screen to cover up his inability to act. And then there are those of us that think he can and does. > > I've seen his roles in "Night of the Comet" and "Lois and > Clark: The New Adventures of Superman" -- and they're just as wooden > as our lovely cigar store indian XO. Just saw Managua and KMAK, he certainly wasnt wooden in either of those.... Lisa

2000-03-22 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com>)


On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:37:33 GMT, "Lisa" <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote: >> And then there are those of us that simply think that Beltran >> simply cannot act, and this is nothing more than a pretty damned fine >> smoke-screen to cover up his inability to act. > >And then there are those of us that think he can and does. Well, there's no accounting for taste now is there.... >> I've seen his roles in "Night of the Comet" and "Lois and >> Clark: The New Adventures of Superman" -- and they're just as wooden >> as our lovely cigar store indian XO. > >Just saw Managua and KMAK, he certainly wasnt wooden in either of those.... And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? -- -=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli (((\ \> /_1 ` (\\\\ \_/ / -=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- \ _/ / /

2000-03-22 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com>)


On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:49:05 +0100, "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote: [snip] >and those of us need your support! :-) You know, the last time I launched a campaign against Robert Duncan McNeill, the president of his fan club got an estrogen brigade rallied up to attack me. They weren't happy with my antics on RDM's romp through a friend of mine's bedroom. -- -=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli (((\ \> /_1 ` (\\\\ \_/ / -=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- \ _/ / /

2000-03-22 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (EvilBill <SPAM-SUCKS@I-RULE-THE-UNIVERSE.com>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:8bb74r$5j9c$1@www.univie.ac.at... > > EvilBill <SPAM-SUCKS@I-RULE-THE-UNIVERSE.com> wrote in message: > > *hands over a bottle of blood wine and crawls into the sulk corner to > sulk* > > Hey, come back! It's more fun to get drunk in company! > Oh, OK then. *opens bottle of Bajoran spring wine* > > > > Don't tell me, you want the kanaar as well? ;-) > > Sure! I need to get drunk *badly* to forget how terrible Voyager has become > lately... > I'll join you... -- Hugh: "Resistance is... NOT futile." EvilBill's home page: http://members.xoom.com/EvilBill/ E-mail: evilbill@nutter.swinternet.co.uk. ICQ number: 37464244 Get paid to surf the web: http://www.alladvantage.com/join.asp?refid=dtd-950

2000-03-22 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message: bSRB4.1639$f67.53462@news3.cableinet.net... > > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:8b8m4t$5aci$1@www.univie.ac.at... > > > > Arlie <arlie88@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message: > > 20000317195019.17302.00005378@ng-xe1.aol.com... > > > Actually, I was talking about Robert Beltran! > > > > > > > Oh! Well... that guy I can't really imagine as being nice and warm and > > caring... > > > > I'm sure you could if you tried really, really hard, crossed all your > fingers for luck and wished upon a star and then you may see what we see <g> > Nope, Lisa. No chance in hell for that to happen... Sorry Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-22 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


EvilBill <SPAM-SUCKS@I-RULE-THE-UNIVERSE.com> wrote in message: PlTB4.1688$pQ5.45412@nnrp3.clara.net... > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > > EvilBill[AGQx] <evilbillKILL-THE-SPAM@nutter.swinternet.co.uk> wrote in > > message: xiAA4.374$X4.8673@nnrp4.clara.net... > > > > > > Is that all? You mean you don't want my body, my heart, my mind and my > soul? > > > <g> > > > > one thing at the time. Right now I want the blood wine��� <vbeg> > > > > Oh, Ok then. > *hands over a bottle of blood wine and crawls into the sulk corner to sulk* Hey, come back! It's more fun to get drunk in company! > > > Except for the fact that I am *younger* than Tommy :( > > > > but obviously more mature than he is > > > > Don't tell me, you want the kanaar as well? ;-) Sure! I need to get drunk *badly* to forget how terrible Voyager has become lately... Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-23 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com>)


On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:50:18 -0800, Helen & Bob <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >Oh yes, just an afterthought. I did check IMDb. >Robert Beltran won the 1999 ALMA award for best individual performance, STAR >TREK VOYAGER, and the 1997 Golden Eagle award, for Outstanding Actor in a TV >series. > >Just for your information Thank ya' and I stand corrected.. :) -- -=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli (((\ \> /_1 ` (\\\\ \_/ / -=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- \ _/ / /

2000-03-23 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com>)


On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:08:09 +0100, "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote: >*he* won't - thanks to all the exposure and promotion he gets on Voyager.... >it's the others, that will be in serious trouble, the real actors, that have >not been allowed to act in years.... Like politics -- it's not who you know... -- -=-=-/ )=*=-='=-.-'-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= _( (_ , '_ * . Merrick Baldelli (((\ \> /_1 ` (\\\\ \_/ / -=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- \ _/ / /

2000-03-23 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message: jXsC4.3732$f67.115963@news3.cableinet.net... > > "Helen & Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > news:38DA2F2A.C1E92497@ix.netcom.com... > > > > > > Merrick Baldelli wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An > > > Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? > > > > > > > The man is making a living in a profession where 90% of the profession > have to > > have other jobs to survive. That, in and of itself, is a major > accomplishment. > > (yes. 90% of the members of the SAG cannot make a living at acting. Not > enough > > jobs). Now, out of that small percentage, what percentage never win > awards? > > The man is making a living, and a damn good one. He's doing just fine. > > > > Oh yes, just an afterthought. I did check IMDb. > > Robert Beltran won the 1999 ALMA award for best individual performance, > STAR > > TREK VOYAGER, and the 1997 Golden Eagle award, for Outstanding Actor in a > TV > > series. > > > > Just for your information > > Bob > > > *claps Bob on the Shoulder* > > Way to go Bob!!!!! > > I never realised exactly how much other work he had done before and during > Voyager until I started checking it out, he certainly isn't a one hit wonder > by any means, and I dont think he'll be having any problems once Voyager > finishes. > *he* won't - thanks to all the exposure and promotion he gets on Voyager.... it's the others, that will be in serious trouble, the real actors, that have not been allowed to act in years.... Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-23 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Helen & Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:38DA2F2A.C1E92497@ix.netcom.com... > > > Merrick Baldelli wrote: > > > > > > > And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An > > Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? > > > > The man is making a living in a profession where 90% of the profession have to > have other jobs to survive. That, in and of itself, is a major accomplishment. > (yes. 90% of the members of the SAG cannot make a living at acting. Not enough > jobs). Now, out of that small percentage, what percentage never win awards? > The man is making a living, and a damn good one. He's doing just fine. > > Oh yes, just an afterthought. I did check IMDb. > Robert Beltran won the 1999 ALMA award for best individual performance, STAR > TREK VOYAGER, and the 1997 Golden Eagle award, for Outstanding Actor in a TV > series. > > Just for your information > Bob *claps Bob on the Shoulder* Way to go Bob!!!!! I never realised exactly how much other work he had done before and during Voyager until I started checking it out, he certainly isn't a one hit wonder by any means, and I dont think he'll be having any problems once Voyager finishes. Lisa

2000-03-23 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Helen & Bob <chil-out@ix.netcom.com>)


Merrick Baldelli wrote: > > > And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An > Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? > The man is making a living in a profession where 90% of the profession have to have other jobs to survive. That, in and of itself, is a major accomplishment. (yes. 90% of the members of the SAG cannot make a living at acting. Not enough jobs). Now, out of that small percentage, what percentage never win awards? The man is making a living, and a damn good one. He's doing just fine. Oh yes, just an afterthought. I did check IMDb. Robert Beltran won the 1999 ALMA award for best individual performance, STAR TREK VOYAGER, and the 1997 Golden Eagle award, for Outstanding Actor in a TV series. Just for your information Bob

2000-03-24 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Michele <belanna@uswest.net>)


Julianna Feigl wrote: > > Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: > OsFC4.4749$f67.144252@news3.cableinet.net... > > > > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > > > > Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message: > > > jXsC4.3732$f67.115963@news3.cableinet.net... > > > > > > > > "Helen & Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > > news:38DA2F2A.C1E92497@ix.netcom.com... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Merrick Baldelli wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An > > > > > > Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The man is making a living in a profession where 90% of the > profession > > > > have to > > > > > have other jobs to survive. That, in and of itself, is a major > > > > accomplishment. > > > > > (yes. 90% of the members of the SAG cannot make a living at acting. > > > Not > > > > enough > > > > > jobs). Now, out of that small percentage, what percentage never win > > > > awards? > > > > > The man is making a living, and a damn good one. He's doing just > > fine. > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, just an afterthought. I did check IMDb. > > > > > Robert Beltran won the 1999 ALMA award for best individual > > performance, > > > > STAR > > > > > TREK VOYAGER, and the 1997 Golden Eagle award, for Outstanding Actor > > in > > > a > > > > TV > > > > > series. > > > > > > > > > > Just for your information > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > *claps Bob on the Shoulder* > > > > > > > > Way to go Bob!!!!! > > > > > > > > I never realised exactly how much other work he had done before and > > during > > > > Voyager until I started checking it out, he certainly isn't a one hit > > > wonder > > > > by any means, and I dont think he'll be having any problems once > Voyager > > > > finishes. > > > > > > > > > > *he* won't - thanks to all the exposure and promotion he gets on > > Voyager.... > > > it's the others, that will be in serious trouble, the real actors, that > > have > > > not been allowed to act in years.... > > > > > > I dont know what the others have done prior to or whilst working on > Voyager, > > but RB has done loads of stuff and I dont doubt that Voyager will only > play > > a small part in his quest for more work. > > > > Sorry, Lisa. Everybody does loads of stuff. These people have to earn a > living. Not all they do is big stuff, sometimes it's small roles. Not all > they do is high quality stuff. They do it because they need the money. They > all try to get known by doing something popular, i.e. a long-running series. > If you get on such a series and become a popular, well-used star, you have > won. You *will* work again and you *will* be able to do good stuff. > If, OTOH, despite all your talent you end up being a series' biggest loser, > you won't, no matter how much you've done before or between. Once you have > the reputation of being an unpopular, unusable piece of background "�$�"4 > thanks to having been ignored for *years* on a series, you have lost. It's > that simple. > > Julianna > ------------- > Tuvok: > The main reason to watch Voyager! I don't think that is necessarily true. In many instances the minor characters of tv series have become popular. There are many cases where the main characters or the most popular couldn't even get a minor role job after the one job was over. A lot of times the minor or major actors have gone into other realms like directing, producing or even theater. Just because you don't see them on the big screen doesn't mean they are not popular. Michele

2000-03-24 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueen@hotmail.com>)


Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: OsFC4.4749$f67.144252@news3.cableinet.net... > > "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > > Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message: > > jXsC4.3732$f67.115963@news3.cableinet.net... > > > > > > "Helen & Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > > news:38DA2F2A.C1E92497@ix.netcom.com... > > > > > > > > > > > > Merrick Baldelli wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An > > > > > Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The man is making a living in a profession where 90% of the profession > > > have to > > > > have other jobs to survive. That, in and of itself, is a major > > > accomplishment. > > > > (yes. 90% of the members of the SAG cannot make a living at acting. > > Not > > > enough > > > > jobs). Now, out of that small percentage, what percentage never win > > > awards? > > > > The man is making a living, and a damn good one. He's doing just > fine. > > > > > > > > Oh yes, just an afterthought. I did check IMDb. > > > > Robert Beltran won the 1999 ALMA award for best individual > performance, > > > STAR > > > > TREK VOYAGER, and the 1997 Golden Eagle award, for Outstanding Actor > in > > a > > > TV > > > > series. > > > > > > > > Just for your information > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > *claps Bob on the Shoulder* > > > > > > Way to go Bob!!!!! > > > > > > I never realised exactly how much other work he had done before and > during > > > Voyager until I started checking it out, he certainly isn't a one hit > > wonder > > > by any means, and I dont think he'll be having any problems once Voyager > > > finishes. > > > > > > > *he* won't - thanks to all the exposure and promotion he gets on > Voyager.... > > it's the others, that will be in serious trouble, the real actors, that > have > > not been allowed to act in years.... > > > I dont know what the others have done prior to or whilst working on Voyager, > but RB has done loads of stuff and I dont doubt that Voyager will only play > a small part in his quest for more work. > Sorry, Lisa. Everybody does loads of stuff. These people have to earn a living. Not all they do is big stuff, sometimes it's small roles. Not all they do is high quality stuff. They do it because they need the money. They all try to get known by doing something popular, i.e. a long-running series. If you get on such a series and become a popular, well-used star, you have won. You *will* work again and you *will* be able to do good stuff. If, OTOH, despite all your talent you end up being a series' biggest loser, you won't, no matter how much you've done before or between. Once you have the reputation of being an unpopular, unusable piece of background "���$���"4 thanks to having been ignored for *years* on a series, you have lost. It's that simple. Julianna ------------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-24 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:8be0v8$50ra$1@www.univie.ac.at... > > Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message: > jXsC4.3732$f67.115963@news3.cableinet.net... > > > > "Helen & Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message > > news:38DA2F2A.C1E92497@ix.netcom.com... > > > > > > > > > Merrick Baldelli wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An > > > > Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? > > > > > > > > > > The man is making a living in a profession where 90% of the profession > > have to > > > have other jobs to survive. That, in and of itself, is a major > > accomplishment. > > > (yes. 90% of the members of the SAG cannot make a living at acting. > Not > > enough > > > jobs). Now, out of that small percentage, what percentage never win > > awards? > > > The man is making a living, and a damn good one. He's doing just fine. > > > > > > Oh yes, just an afterthought. I did check IMDb. > > > Robert Beltran won the 1999 ALMA award for best individual performance, > > STAR > > > TREK VOYAGER, and the 1997 Golden Eagle award, for Outstanding Actor in > a > > TV > > > series. > > > > > > Just for your information > > > Bob > > > > > > *claps Bob on the Shoulder* > > > > Way to go Bob!!!!! > > > > I never realised exactly how much other work he had done before and during > > Voyager until I started checking it out, he certainly isn't a one hit > wonder > > by any means, and I dont think he'll be having any problems once Voyager > > finishes. > > > > *he* won't - thanks to all the exposure and promotion he gets on Voyager.... > it's the others, that will be in serious trouble, the real actors, that have > not been allowed to act in years.... I dont know what the others have done prior to or whilst working on Voyager, but RB has done loads of stuff and I dont doubt that Voyager will only play a small part in his quest for more work. Lisa

2000-03-24 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk>)


"Merrick Baldelli" <mbaldelli@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:epelds8429ej9bgmoo315kvo65ae30n84t@4ax.com... > On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 06:50:18 -0800, Helen & Bob > <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > >Oh yes, just an afterthought. I did check IMDb. > >Robert Beltran won the 1999 ALMA award for best individual performance, STAR > >TREK VOYAGER, and the 1997 Golden Eagle award, for Outstanding Actor in a TV > >series. > > > >Just for your information > > Thank ya' and I stand corrected.. :) > Bless you Merrick! Lisa

2000-03-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Helen & Bob <chil-out@ix.netcom.com>)


DTaejdH wrote: > In article <tvsidskqkqq2b8qgr0db785qar1qmjpm2o@4ax.com>, Merrick Baldelli > <mbaldelli@mindspring.com> writes: > > >On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:37:33 GMT, "Lisa" > ><lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote: > > > >>> And then there are those of us that simply think that Beltran > >>> simply cannot act, and this is nothing more than a pretty damned fine > >>> smoke-screen to cover up his inability to act. > >> > >>And then there are those of us that think he can and does. > > > > Well, there's no accounting for taste now is there.... > > > > Nope...these avid Jeri Ryan Fans just amaze me... > > >>> I've seen his roles in "Night of the Comet" and "Lois and > >>> Clark: The New Adventures of Superman" -- and they're just as wooden > >>> as our lovely cigar store indian XO. > >> > >>Just saw Managua and KMAK, he certainly wasnt wooden in either of those.... > > > > And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An > >Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? > > > > > > Who cares if he has or he hasn't? Most of that is Hollywood politics. > You could ask this question about a good deal of the so-called "best" Trek > actors...what have they won acclaim for outside of Star Trek? > Outside of Picardo, that would be a pretty short list. > > Doreen IF you go to IMDb, and see his history and his awards, and realize they are NOT Hollywood politics awards, perhaps you might review your judgments. The man is making a living in an industry where 90% of the members have to take other jobs just to survive. That is an outstanding accomplishment. Now, the man is not my favorite, either, but damn, be fair. Bob

2000-03-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <tvsidskqkqq2b8qgr0db785qar1qmjpm2o@4ax.com>, Merrick Baldelli <mbaldelli@mindspring.com> writes: >On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:37:33 GMT, "Lisa" ><lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote: > >>> And then there are those of us that simply think that Beltran >>> simply cannot act, and this is nothing more than a pretty damned fine >>> smoke-screen to cover up his inability to act. >> >>And then there are those of us that think he can and does. > > Well, there's no accounting for taste now is there.... > Nope...these avid Jeri Ryan Fans just amaze me... >>> I've seen his roles in "Night of the Comet" and "Lois and >>> Clark: The New Adventures of Superman" -- and they're just as wooden >>> as our lovely cigar store indian XO. >> >>Just saw Managua and KMAK, he certainly wasnt wooden in either of those.... > > And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An >Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? > > Who cares if he has or he hasn't? Most of that is Hollywood politics. You could ask this question about a good deal of the so-called "best" Trek actors...what have they won acclaim for outside of Star Trek? Outside of Picardo, that would be a pretty short list. Doreen

2000-03-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <38DA2F2A.C1E92497@ix.netcom.com>, Helen & Bob <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> writes: >Merrick Baldelli wrote: > >> >> >> And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An >> Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? >> > >The man is making a living in a profession where 90% of the profession have >to >have other jobs to survive. That, in and of itself, is a major >accomplishment. >(yes. 90% of the members of the SAG cannot make a living at acting. Not >enough >jobs). Now, out of that small percentage, what percentage never win awards? >The man is making a living, and a damn good one. He's doing just fine. > >Oh yes, just an afterthought. I did check IMDb. >Robert Beltran won the 1999 ALMA award for best individual performance, STAR >TREK VOYAGER, and the 1997 Golden Eagle award, for Outstanding Actor in a TV >series. > >Just for your information >Bob > Thanks Bob! :-) Couldn't agree more...different actors appeal to different people. Doreen

2000-03-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <jXsC4.3732$f67.115963@news3.cableinet.net>, "Lisa" <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> writes: >"Helen & Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message >news:38DA2F2A.C1E92497@ix.netcom.com... >> >> >> Merrick Baldelli wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An >> > Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? >> > >> >> The man is making a living in a profession where 90% of the profession >have to >> have other jobs to survive. That, in and of itself, is a major >accomplishment. >> (yes. 90% of the members of the SAG cannot make a living at acting. Not >enough >> jobs). Now, out of that small percentage, what percentage never win >awards? >> The man is making a living, and a damn good one. He's doing just fine. >> >> Oh yes, just an afterthought. I did check IMDb. >> Robert Beltran won the 1999 ALMA award for best individual performance, >STAR >> TREK VOYAGER, and the 1997 Golden Eagle award, for Outstanding Actor in a >TV >> series. >> >> Just for your information >> Bob > > >*claps Bob on the Shoulder* > >Way to go Bob!!!!! > >I never realised exactly how much other work he had done before and during >Voyager until I started checking it out, he certainly isn't a one hit wonder >by any means, and I dont think he'll be having any problems once Voyager >finishes. > >Lisa > <G> Part of the fun of the internet isn't it? Doreen (who hopes to see Luminarias on the big screen...)

2000-03-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <8be0v8$50ra$1@www.univie.ac.at>, "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> writes: >Lisa <lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message: >jXsC4.3732$f67.115963@news3.cableinet.net... >> >> "Helen & Bob" <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message >> news:38DA2F2A.C1E92497@ix.netcom.com... >> > >> > >> > Merrick Baldelli wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An >> > > Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? >> > > >> > >> > The man is making a living in a profession where 90% of the profession >> have to >> > have other jobs to survive. That, in and of itself, is a major >> accomplishment. >> > (yes. 90% of the members of the SAG cannot make a living at acting. >Not >> enough >> > jobs). Now, out of that small percentage, what percentage never win >> awards? >> > The man is making a living, and a damn good one. He's doing just fine. >> > >> > Oh yes, just an afterthought. I did check IMDb. >> > Robert Beltran won the 1999 ALMA award for best individual performance, >> STAR >> > TREK VOYAGER, and the 1997 Golden Eagle award, for Outstanding Actor in >a >> TV >> > series. >> > >> > Just for your information >> > Bob >> >> >> *claps Bob on the Shoulder* >> >> Way to go Bob!!!!! >> >> I never realised exactly how much other work he had done before and during >> Voyager until I started checking it out, he certainly isn't a one hit >wonder >> by any means, and I dont think he'll be having any problems once Voyager >> finishes. >> > >*he* won't - thanks to all the exposure and promotion he gets on Voyager.... >it's the others, that will be in serious trouble, the real actors, that have >not been allowed to act in years.... > Julianna, It's your perception that RB has been promoted like Jeri Ryan or Bob Picardo...IMO, he has had basically the same treatment as any of the rest of the cast, and this year Chakotay has been as "tuvoked" as Tuvok.... Doreen

2000-03-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (arlie88@aol.comNoSpam)


>Oh yes, just an afterthought. I did check IMDb. >Robert Beltran won the 1999 ALMA award for best individual performance, STAR >TREK VOYAGER, and the 1997 Golden Eagle award, for Outstanding Actor in a TV >series. Er...just what are these awards for, anyway? I assume the Alma award is for a Hispanic actor. What's a Golden Eagle? Is it better than Employee of the Month at McDonald's? <g> -- Arlie

2000-03-26 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <8b8pt6$64au$1@www.univie.ac.at>, "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqueen@hotmail.com> writes: <SNIP> >> >Probably yes, but then, we're used to Chucky not having an opinion of >> >his own, so it didn't really bother me >> >> Unfortunately Julianna, this seem to be true for both the second and third >in >> command...now if we want Seven's or the Doc's opinion on anything... >> > >the third in command? There is such a person? When exactly was the last time >you saw *him*????? > > >Julianna ER....Child's Play, actually allowed to accompany Janeway down to the planet (one of the very few things about that ep that I liked...good premise, but written so skewed toward the Voyager/Department of Children and Family Service Angle that I couldn't enjoy it) I don't see the second in command that often either... must be the blinding light from the bald head, or all the T&A in the way... Doreen

2000-03-28 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueenNOSPAM@hotmail.com>)


On 26 Mar 2000 22:34:08 GMT, dtaejdh@aol.com (DTaejdH) wrote: >In article <8be0v8$50ra$1@www.univie.ac.at>, "Julianna Feigl" ><glacierqueen@hotmail.com> writes: > >>*he* won't - thanks to all the exposure and promotion he gets on Voyager.... >>it's the others, that will be in serious trouble, the real actors, that have >>not been allowed to act in years.... >> > >Julianna, > >It's your perception that RB has been promoted like Jeri Ryan or Bob >Picardo...IMO, he has had basically the same treatment as any of the rest of >the cast, and this year Chakotay has been as "tuvoked" as Tuvok.... > Only recently. He was pretty visible in the first half of the season, while Tuvok was invisible throughout the entire season... and let's not forget that Beltran had eps last year, while Tim hasn't had one to himself in several years... and probably never won't get another one. :-((( Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-03-29 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueenNOSPAM@hotmail.com>)


On 26 Mar 2000 15:45:58 GMT, dtaejdh@aol.com (DTaejdH) wrote: >In article <8b8pt6$64au$1@www.univie.ac.at>, "Julianna Feigl" ><glacierqueen@hotmail.com> writes: > ><SNIP> > >>> >Probably yes, but then, we're used to Chucky not having an opinion of >>> >his own, so it didn't really bother me >>> >>> Unfortunately Julianna, this seem to be true for both the second and third >>in >>> command...now if we want Seven's or the Doc's opinion on anything... >>> >> >>the third in command? There is such a person? When exactly was the last time >>you saw *him*????? >> >> >>Julianna > >ER....Child's Play, actually allowed to accompany Janeway down to the planet where he did exactly what? (sarcastic mode off) >(one of the very few things about that ep that I liked...good premise, but >written so skewed toward the Voyager/Department of Children and Family Service >Angle that I couldn't enjoy it) >I don't see the second in command that often either... >must be the blinding light from the bald head, or all the T&A in the way... > at least you saw him in strong eps last year and in strong supporting parts at the beginning of this season. I haven't had any of these things in *years* :-( Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-04-01 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <38DED876.375BDED0@ix.netcom.com>, Helen & Bob <chil-out@ix.netcom.com> writes: >DTaejdH wrote: > >> In article <tvsidskqkqq2b8qgr0db785qar1qmjpm2o@4ax.com>, Merrick Baldelli >> <mbaldelli@mindspring.com> writes: >> >> >On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:37:33 GMT, "Lisa" >> ><lisa.dugmore@cableinet.co.uk> wrote: >> > >> >>> And then there are those of us that simply think that Beltran >> >>> simply cannot act, and this is nothing more than a pretty damned fine >> >>> smoke-screen to cover up his inability to act. >> >> >> >>And then there are those of us that think he can and does. >> > >> > Well, there's no accounting for taste now is there.... >> > >> >> Nope...these avid Jeri Ryan Fans just amaze me... >> >> >>> I've seen his roles in "Night of the Comet" and "Lois and >> >>> Clark: The New Adventures of Superman" -- and they're just as wooden >> >>> as our lovely cigar store indian XO. >> >> >> >>Just saw Managua and KMAK, he certainly wasnt wooden in either of >those.... >> > >> > And if he's so expressive, why hasn't he won ANYTHING? An >> >Emmy, a Golden Globe, ANYTHING???? >> > >> > >> >> Who cares if he has or he hasn't? Most of that is Hollywood politics. >> You could ask this question about a good deal of the so-called "best" Trek >> actors...what have they won acclaim for outside of Star Trek? >> Outside of Picardo, that would be a pretty short list. >> >> Doreen > >IF you go to IMDb, and see his history and his awards, and realize they are >NOT >Hollywood politics awards, perhaps you might review your judgments. The man >is >making a living in an industry where 90% of the members have to take other >jobs >just to survive. That is an outstanding accomplishment. Now, the man is not >my >favorite, either, but damn, be fair. >Bob > > Hi Bob:-) I don't place much faith in awards no matter what the industry or occupation is, but I just may take a look at the IMDB--been on my list of "things to do" for a while. I agree with your assessment that making a living in an industry where 90% of the people have to do odd jubs just to survive is quite an accomplishment, and being able to make a living doing something you love is enviable. By the way, RB IS the reason I still watch Voyager:-) I may not know which awards he has or hasn't won, but I think I've seen all of his movies (up to Luminarias) and most of his television appearances...and I will definitely give the man a break! Doreen

2000-04-01 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <vf42escfkjah11045rnjmuvu7girkl2uot@4ax.com>, Julianna Feigl <glacierqueenNOSPAM@hotmail.com> writes: >>>*he* won't - thanks to all the exposure and promotion he gets on >Voyager.... >>>it's the others, that will be in serious trouble, the real actors, that >have >>>not been allowed to act in years.... >>> >> >>Julianna, >> >>It's your perception that RB has been promoted like Jeri Ryan or Bob >>Picardo...IMO, he has had basically the same treatment as any of the rest of >>the cast, and this year Chakotay has been as "tuvoked" as Tuvok.... >> > > >Only recently. He was pretty visible in the first half of the season, >while Tuvok was invisible throughout the entire season... and let's >not forget that Beltran had eps last year, while Tim hasn't had one to >himself in several years... and probably never won't get another one. >:-((( > > >Julianna Yes, I agree that it happened to Tuvok and Neelix first, but I think TR has been more visible this year. I know that you don't count either Gravity or Riddles as Tuvok eps, but I understand what you mean about having an ep for the character alone. Maybe it's not too late. Doreen

2000-04-04 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueenNOSPAM@hotmail.com>)


On 01 Apr 2000 14:16:56 GMT, dtaejdh@aol.com (DTaejdH) wrote: >In article <vf42escfkjah11045rnjmuvu7girkl2uot@4ax.com>, Julianna Feigl ><glacierqueenNOSPAM@hotmail.com> writes: > >>>>*he* won't - thanks to all the exposure and promotion he gets on >>Voyager.... >>>>it's the others, that will be in serious trouble, the real actors, that >>have >>>>not been allowed to act in years.... >>>> >>> >>>Julianna, >>> >>>It's your perception that RB has been promoted like Jeri Ryan or Bob >>>Picardo.. Maybe not just like them, but 2-3 times more than TR in this season alone... >>>.IMO, he has had basically the same treatment as any of the rest of >>>the cast, and this year Chakotay has been as "tuvoked" as Tuvok.... >>> >> >> >>Only recently. He was pretty visible in the first half of the season, >>while Tuvok was invisible throughout the entire season... and let's >>not forget that Beltran had eps last year, while Tim hasn't had one to >>himself in several years... and probably never won't get another one. >>:-((( >> >> >>Julianna > >Yes, I agree that it happened to Tuvok and Neelix first, but I think TR has >been more visible this year. ????? Are you kidding???? He barely ever gets more than 10 lines nowadays! >I know that you don't count either Gravity or Riddles as Tuvok eps, but I >understand what you mean about having an ep for the character alone. Maybe >it's not too late. > Have you seen the latest spoilers? The other two pretty neglected characters do get another ep, while all *he* gets is another demeaning scene :-(((((( Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!

2000-04-07 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (dtaejdh@aol.com)


In article <q9fkescjlj7f3kf5dntt42fugiq10801p5@4ax.com>, Julianna Feigl <glacierqueenNOSPAM@hotmail.com> writes: >On 01 Apr 2000 14:16:56 GMT, dtaejdh@aol.com (DTaejdH) wrote: > >>In article <vf42escfkjah11045rnjmuvu7girkl2uot@4ax.com>, Julianna Feigl >><glacierqueenNOSPAM@hotmail.com> writes: >> >>>>>*he* won't - thanks to all the exposure and promotion he gets on >>>Voyager.... >>>>>it's the others, that will be in serious trouble, the real actors, that >>>have >>>>>not been allowed to act in years.... >>>>> >>>> >>>>Julianna, >>>> >>>>It's your perception that RB has been promoted like Jeri Ryan or Bob >>>>Picardo.. > >Maybe not just like them, but 2-3 times more than TR in this season >alone... Can't agree here...think it will be much closer by end of season because Tuvok will be in the Kes ep. > >>>>.IMO, he has had basically the same treatment as any of the rest of >>>>the cast, and this year Chakotay has been as "tuvoked" as Tuvok.... >>>> >>> >>> >>>Only recently. He was pretty visible in the first half of the season, >>>while Tuvok was invisible throughout the entire season... and let's >>>not forget that Beltran had eps last year, while Tim hasn't had one to >>>himself in several years... and probably never won't get another one. >>>:-((( >>> >>> >>>Julianna >> >>Yes, I agree that it happened to Tuvok and Neelix first, but I think TR has >>been more visible this year. > >????? Are you kidding???? He barely ever gets more than 10 lines >nowadays! Neither does RB...trust me...I watch for those scenes... > >>I know that you don't count either Gravity or Riddles as Tuvok eps, but I >>understand what you mean about having an ep for the character alone. Maybe >>it's not too late. >> > >Have you seen the latest spoilers? The other two pretty neglected >characters do get another ep, while all *he* gets is another demeaning >scene :-(((((( I thought of you... I hope it's well done because I cringed for you. We've got a lot in common this year Julianna...I never get to see my favorite Commander command anything, and your favorite commander gets nothing but bad humor...I think Braga hates us... Doreen

2000-04-08 00:00:00 - Re: Maybe it's just me... - (Julianna Feigl <glacierqueenNOSPAM@hotmail.com>)


On 07 Apr 2000 03:34:44 GMT, dtaejdh@aol.com (DTaejdH) wrote: >In article <q9fkescjlj7f3kf5dntt42fugiq10801p5@4ax.com>, Julianna Feigl ><glacierqueenNOSPAM@hotmail.com> writes: > >>On 01 Apr 2000 14:16:56 GMT, dtaejdh@aol.com (DTaejdH) wrote: >> >>>In article <vf42escfkjah11045rnjmuvu7girkl2uot@4ax.com>, Julianna Feigl >>><glacierqueenNOSPAM@hotmail.com> writes: >>> >>>>>>*he* won't - thanks to all the exposure and promotion he gets on >>>>Voyager.... >>>>>>it's the others, that will be in serious trouble, the real actors, that >>>>have >>>>>>not been allowed to act in years.... >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Julianna, >>>>> >>>>>It's your perception that RB has been promoted like Jeri Ryan or Bob >>>>>Picardo.. >> >>Maybe not just like them, but 2-3 times more than TR in this season >>alone... > >Can't agree here...think it will be much closer by end of season because Tuvok >will be in the Kes ep. > Chucky was more than 100 lines ahead of Tuvok (I'll check Zabby's counts, but I think it was closer to 150 than to 100) after "Voyager Conspiracy". Both had equally little in "Pathfinder". Chucky had considerably more than Tuvok in "Fair Haven" and "Blink of an Eye", though neither had much in "Virtuoso". Chucky once again beat Tuvok in "Memorial", while in "Tsunkatse" they were pretty even. Then Tuvok had a few lines more in "Collective", maybe 15-20 lines. Neither had much in "Spirit Folk" or "Ashes to Ashes" and both were pretty much in the background in "Child's Play". Chucky had considerably more lines than Tuvok in "Good Shepherd", though. So the gap has widened rather than closed. And the fact that Tuvok is mentioned in the spoilers for the Kes ep while Chucky is not, does not mean a thing. After all, Tuvok was mentioned for "Tsunaktse" as well - but got about the same as Chucka who was *not* mentioned. And Chucky will *definitely* have more than Tuvok to do in "Unimatrix Zero" or whatever that season finale is called, since Tuvok will be assimilated, thus out of the picture. >> >>>>>.IMO, he has had basically the same treatment as any of the rest of >>>>>the cast, and this year Chakotay has been as "tuvoked" as Tuvok.... >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Only recently. He was pretty visible in the first half of the season, >>>>while Tuvok was invisible throughout the entire season... and let's >>>>not forget that Beltran had eps last year, while Tim hasn't had one to >>>>himself in several years... and probably never won't get another one. >>>>:-((( >>>> >>>> >>>>Julianna >>> >>>Yes, I agree that it happened to Tuvok and Neelix first, but I think TR has >>>been more visible this year. >> >>????? Are you kidding???? He barely ever gets more than 10 lines >>nowadays! > >Neither does RB...trust me...I watch for those scenes... > but RB had eps with 50-100 lines as well, while Tim hadn't. >>>I know that you don't count either Gravity or Riddles as Tuvok eps, but I >>>understand what you mean about having an ep for the character alone. Maybe >>>it's not too late. >>> >> >>Have you seen the latest spoilers? The other two pretty neglected >>characters do get another ep, while all *he* gets is another demeaning >>scene :-(((((( > >I thought of you... >I hope it's well done because I cringed for you. it will probably be even worse than it sounds :-((((((( >We've got a lot in common this year Julianna...I never get to see my favorite >Commander command anything, at least you see him *at all*.... >and your favorite commander gets nothing but bad >humor...I think Braga hates us... he hates Tim, that much is pretty obvious. He'd never *dream* of giving Beltran or RDM or anybody else such demeaning scenes :-(((((((((((( Julianna -------- Tuvok: The main reason to watch Voyager!